November 15, 2022 • 37 mins
Wow wow wow, as we approach the holiday season Chef Carla Hall is here to throw down for savory cornbread against her friend, fellow cook and writer, Chadwick Boyd, who is totally okay with a little extra sugar in the mix. Carla does NOT add extra sugar in her recipe and she has the evidence to prove it. This is a Food Court to remember with Carla going into a trance that cannot be broken by any mere bell, Chadwick overcoming a duck confit injury and a final winner's scream that woke my dog from a deep sleep. Happy Thanksgiving, y'all!
Carla's book- Carla and the Christmas Cornbread
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:04):
Yeah, Carlo Maya. I've got a ninety degree bend in
my leg, so I'm able to sit in a chair.
That Yeah, that's huge. That's huge. I had a major
accident at the end of April, and this actually is
part of my getting back into life by doing this,
I've been laid up for a long well. Welcome back,
(00:32):
food Court, food Court, Food Court with Richard Blaze. Are
you in the food court Court with rich Blase? Welcome
(00:58):
to the food Court of production of I Heart Radio.
I am Richard Blazon. I will be your host and
your judge in this courtroom of sorts. I'm gonna settle
your food fights and you will have to live with
my verdict whatever it is. Joining us in the court today,
we have two chefs who both have ties to the South.
They know their stuff, so I'm really not looking forward
(01:20):
to telling one of them they're totally wrong today, but
it will happen. Our first guest I've known for a
long time, which I don't even like Crystal he wrote this,
but like that, just it makes us seem older than
we are because we're so young, and we've actually competed
against each other. But who cares about competition? Anyway, way
back on Top Chef All Stars. You may know her
(01:41):
from shows like The Chew and Crazy Delicious or some
of the other hundreds of shows and movies and appearances
and things that she's done. Welcome Carla Hall. Oh my
gosh the hoodie. Oo. I can't believe you dropped it
(02:01):
so early. I did. I may have to use it
again when I get a point, but you know, I
think so, I think, so did you? Okay, listen, We're
gonna just get right into it. Were you know friendly banters?
The who do you when you? When you when you
do it for the first time? And again I know
you do well before you're in front of a camera. Right,
This is like something you say. It's it's authentic. Did
(02:22):
you know did you know in the moment you had
to catch phrase? No? No, I was just living as
I do. That's why I have a couple of gifts,
I think, because I just I'm a character anyway, So
what can I say? There it is, but it's stuck
with you and you and you and you don't mind
(02:42):
it now right now? Only think I don't even mind
when people misspell it. But I you know, wait a second, wait, wait,
how do you spell it, it's h o O T
I e h o oh. But people will go w
h o o t y w ho. But actually, which
(03:04):
is not bad because when they who do who be?
I'm like who? So you know, I love that there's
a wrong spelling to it, and then you've come to
grips with accepting it. It's okay if you misspell who
do you? I'll go back who do you? Who do you? Too?
With the correct spelling, So you know, it's just like
a little I love it. I am jealous of many things, Carla,
(03:26):
that you've accomplished and continue to accomplish, and I'm okay
with that. But one is your catchphrase, like I've never
had a catchphrase and that you're like and it's and
it continues and it's natural and it's authentic. Like I
don't think Emerald runs around being like bam, like when
he's just at home, but I feel like you say
who do you when you're out of target or whatever? No,
we do we do. As a matter of fact, Matthew
says it, it's actually a four part call, which is
(03:47):
really embarrassing. Matthew will say whoever gets home second, and
like who do you? And then the person who's in
the house is like who, and then that person goes.
So that part makes us really weird, but just wanted
to drop that because we are weird, really weird, but safe.
Like like, if you need to get to the panic
room in your house, you got like a four. You
(04:09):
got everything set up right, you have the redundancy is
figured out so that you know, no, no one's gonna
trick you with a fake hootie call. That's right, that's right,
all right, Well listen, I mean it's a tough battle
already going up against Carla is her friend, fellow chef,
TV host, author and entrepreneur, coming back from a serious
(04:30):
duck cone feet inspired injury. It's Chadwick Boyd here, everybody,
what's going on? We're terried for those of you who
can't see, because none of you can because this is
a podcast. Chadwick is in his kitchen ready to cook.
Do you have any idea what's happening in this this
this show here? Chadwick, I actually came prepared because when
(04:53):
we're talking about what we're talking about with the one
and only Carla Hall, you gotta you gotta bring your game.
I love that for well, I love how Like also,
how professional you are that you did not drop and
reveal what we're about to battle about, like, because a
lot of people right off the bat we gotta cut it.
They get into it, and no, a pro the consummate profect,
(05:14):
not consummate the consummate professional consummate cooking. I do have
the cast iron sitting next to me because I wanted
that to be my leg ding ding ding. I like it.
And by the way, you may have inspired the spinoff
to food Court where cooking is involved. What do you think?
I heart radio. Let's do it. Let's do it all right, listen, Carl,
I know that. Well, you're doing everything, but you've been
doing a lot of judging. You can't turn on a
(05:36):
TV without seeing you. You can't be in an airplane
without seeing quite honestly, again, I'm just like, where where
where are you not? How can you be in all
these different places? Hustle muscle, Richard, I have a really
strong hustle mussel. Yeah you do. I like that. Where
is the hustle muscle located? It's it's it's somewhere in
between back your occipital lobe, honestly so. But it ties
(05:59):
then to your heart art so it goes right back
here from your occipital load down through your throat into
your heart and then it touches a little bit in
the stomach. It's actually one of the largest muscles that
is not discussed in your body. I love it here. Yeah, yeah,
this is this is this is the therapy. This is
(06:20):
therapy with Carla Hall. We were launching a separate podcast here. Um, Carla,
did you coin Cooking with Love too? Like, I'm just
thinking that I totally sober, Like I feel like you're
one of the first chefs I've ever heard, Like you
just made that connection. You were like, no, right down
to the heart into the soul, like did you were
you interesting enough? I don't think I coined it. I
(06:41):
think I talked about it, and I think that a
lot of people were then comfortable. I don't think a
lot of people wanted to say it out loud. I
think people felt it, and then after I talked about it,
there were more people actually talking about cooking with Love
and how it really makes sense, And so I don't
I I don't think I coined it, but I think
(07:02):
that being on a show that was gaining popularity and
anything that we've said probably was was coined because of
its popularity. I mean, Fabio was talking about bunky beds,
you know what I mean? Or one time I think
I've said it on the show. He's not here. We
(07:22):
gotta get him on Fabio. But well, my favorite thing
Fabio ever said to me was he he ate five
ice cream sandwiches in a row one night. I don't
know if you were there, Carla, and he said, I
am going to commit suicide by ice cream sandwich. And
I don't know, I was not there. It was just
that type of day. And you know, yeah, I'm just
(07:43):
saying it was, you know, something that was said. But
I remember there are a lot of There are a
lot of Fabio is ms. If this is top Chef
not top scallop. You know, he said a lot of things.
So he said continues too. By the way, if if
you follow him, he continues, shoo, he's carl. I remember
when you said when you sort of made that connection.
I mean, I'm being revealing here. It's not this type
(08:05):
of podcast. But I remember realizing that I could not
beat that. I remember realizing that I didn't have that mechanism.
I My food wasn't connected to love. I didn't view
it that way, and it's pretty sad now to say it,
but thank you because you did teach me to sort
of change the way I cook and realize that there's
a lot more to it than just measuring something out
(08:25):
or being ultra creative. And I was more like a cyborg.
I was visioned from the Avengers, which is a formidable foe.
But you cannot you know, you can't beat love. You
can't beat something that's just like I don't even know.
I don't even know how to describe that. So think
you know what's so interesting about that? I think that
I can taste the which is which is why when
I'm judging on all of these competition shows, these baking shows,
(08:49):
I can actually taste someone's heart in the food. I
can taste it at a restaurant, I can taste it
when I'm judging someone. And that's what I look for.
I mean, other judges may look for other things, so
that's why you have different judges. But I can actually
taste it. I taste a fraud. Yeah, But you know what,
I will say this too, as a judge host all
those sort of things. A lot of people say they
(09:10):
don't mean it, Carla. That's why I'm glad you can
taste it, because a lot of people now they're like, oh,
I know what to say if I get in trouble here.
This is from This is all about love, but it
needed salt. We gotta wrap this part up. Chadwick, thanks
for for being a part of the reunion there. Chadwick,
where are you? Where are you from? And what's your
food background? Because I think it's sort of connects the
(09:31):
dots today, doesn't it. Yeah, so it's kind of an anomaly.
I was born in southeastern Pennsylvania, and my bloodline is
complete farmers. I'm the first one in my family that
is not a practicing farmer. And my great grandfather was
a tenant farmer from southwestern Virginia and they came up
(09:52):
and settled in the bottom right corner of Pennsylvania where
there's a ton of Southerners. So I grew up half
Pennsylvania Dutch, half Virginia Southern, and so I've got all
that in the mix. And I've actually lived in the
American South now for thirty five years, so it's my
home and I go back and forth between New York
(10:12):
and Atlanta, and it's all I know. Oh, I love it. Now,
is it? Do you think it's safe to say that
Southern food is the only true American food? Is there
an argument to be made? Oh, Carla, there's not a
question to both of us. I mean clearly from I mean,
I'm from the South, and I have to say that
(10:32):
is not true. Okay, all right, yeah, I mean it's
it just can't be true because then we negate all
of the changes that came through the South and other
places that are quintessentially American. How about the first Well, no,
I guess you can't say that either. Okay, there's a
lot of but to that point, there's a lot of
(10:53):
roots that were brought here and then planted and then
has become cuisines that we now cook with and then
joy and thankfully because we have traveled all over the country,
we get to get good food from certain places in
new cities around the country. Here's what I was trying
to say. I'm trying to get both you to agree
(11:13):
with me here. I think it still needs a little bit.
People need to respect Southern cuisine. That's what I'm saying.
Like it's it's it's so important to our story, and
it's so delicious, and I just think it doesn't get
the respect that it deserves. Sometimes sometimes agreed, but I'm
(11:34):
also yes, southern food. But then because I'm because I'm
black or African American from the South, I also have
to add soul food to that. So what's the difference
between soul food and Southern food? You know? And for me,
it's simply black cooks. So yeah, we're still in that place. Okay,
(11:54):
try to take three and I'm just kidding on this, kidding,
how about you start give us the opening line, Take three,
car the hall on Southern cuisine. No, no, no, no,
But I get it. I get it. I think that.
I think that. And interestingly enough, when you think about
the America's when you think about Virginia and and how
our country started, it's sort of right there in the South,
(12:15):
you know which is going to come out of that space,
and you know Virginia Barbecue and all of that. So
I I think that you're right, there is a place
for Southern food and it needs to be respected because
our routes are there and so many cuisines come out
of there and spread out across America. Well, don I
would say that you know, Southern foods has definitely grown
(12:38):
in terms of respect and is understood a lot more,
especially in the last twenty years. You know, I went
to school in North Carolina and food that was regional
foods from there. Now so many more people know about
it today than before. I mean, we've got barbecue competitions where,
you know, all over TV, where people now understand that
(13:00):
are different types of barbecue. So I think the it
certainly has grown in people's understanding of it. And it's
nothing better than food made with love and Southern food. Listen,
I love it. Listen. We're gonna quick, quick, hot, take
your favorite style of barbecue quick Chadwick, North Carolina. Okay,
you like vinegar, Carla barbecue, Oh my gosh, Memphis because
(13:21):
it's sticky. I want vinegar and tomato and a little
heat in Memphis, little heat. I like it. That was
a good lightning around. Okay, here we go. Listen, we're
gonna get into the battle because we've just been hanging
out having way too much fun. And the segue will
be this, Carla, of the many things that you've done,
the many accomplishments, the the award winning and best selling cookbooks,
(13:42):
that have to do with with everything. But you had
a cookbook and it's called Carla and the Christmas corn Bread,
a children's book, which is right behind you. If you
can't see this, one of Carla's many assistants just ran, No,
I'm just kidding. Carla actually reached back and right that
there it is behind her, Carla and the Christmas corn Bread.
So with that being said, Carla, what is the case
(14:05):
that you've brought to the food court today? I have
brought the case that corn bread should not be sweet.
Bread should not be sweet. A lot of people's minds
blown right now listening to this, and Chadwick that means
what that means? Hell no, it's got to have some sweet.
(14:29):
It's got to have some sugar, some money, some good
stuff into it. M Okay. So this is a deep
dive right here, and us always, I will turn my
personal feelings totally off here and base my judgment today
solely on the cases presented. But let me just say
that on Top Chef All Stars, I did finish my
final meal of the competition as a dessert with corn bread.
(14:53):
That's I mean, I'm just I'm glad that I got
that off my chest. Now listen, Carla Dwick. Before we
get into the arguments. Here in my court, and in
most courts, let's be honest, there's a quick trivia around
before we get into the actual debates. The winner of
the trivia round gets to decide the order that you present.
Carla and Chadwick, you have to figure out a way
(15:14):
to chime in, to buzz in to answer the trivia questions. Carla,
what buzzer sound noise will you be making to answer
the trivia questions? So let's hear it again. Carla's noises
it so it kind of like a negative buzzer negative
about traditional ding dong, ding dong. Okay, there we go
(15:34):
ding dong for carl expecting who do you who? Weren't
we all, Chadwick? Where we all? But like, you know
how much we have to pay her if she says
who do you who? Like more than four times on
a podcast, I've read the contract. There's no cont Chadwick.
What is your noise gonna be? I'm gonna do whoo
whoo whoo whoop. Okay, we gotta whoo whoop, we gotta
ding dong. Lots of noises to be said. Here we
(15:56):
go We're getting into the trivia around three questions. Question one,
it's multiple choice. In America, which state grows the most corn?
A Iowa? B Illinois, see Indiana. That's Chadwick with the
whoop whoop Iowa. The answer you would think would be Iowa,
and it is Iowa. Iowa is correct, all right. Number
(16:22):
two is Illinois. Number three is Nebraska, which wasn't even
on that list. That makes sense. They were the corn Huskers,
right like that totally makes so much corn coming out
of the middle of the country. I did a show
in Iowa somewhat recently, and it's just it's like the
flint Stones, but in real life, you know, the flint
Stones is every it's just three houses on repeat. But
in Iowa it's just corn. But it's not on repeat.
(16:42):
It's just that's Iowa. Alright, Chadwick, you're up one zero.
Heading into question two. In the South, there's an old
treat where you mix cornbread and a liquid in a
glass and then eat it with a spoon. What is
the liquid? That's Carla Hall with the ding dong buttermilk.
(17:04):
Buttermilk is correct. That was a dunk of of the
corn bread in the buttermilk right there. Producer Crystal's grandpa
ate this all the time and she's still scarred from
the time she tried a bite of it when she
was five years old. It is so bad. I like
didn't know that buttermilk was sour, so I had no
idea that he was eating something sour. That's what it is.
(17:28):
Great Granddaddy's favorite treat, was it. Everyone's granddad old people
love this like love it. Love that to me. You know,
you know what my granddad. I did not grow up
in the South corn dogs from Arthur Treachers. Does anyone
even know how old am I? Right now? I know
Arthur Treacher. Okay, you know the Arthur treat. It was
like my granddaddy with your right. My granddaddy loved corn
(17:51):
dogs from Arthur Tree. It was more of a fish
and chip shop. But bring back Arthur Treachers. Can we
get Arthur Treachers to sponsor the show their one remaining location?
There's no way they have. Can someone do a quick check?
Where's the last? Is there any remaining Arthur future one
in the airport, still in an airport somewhere. It's Miami
Airport and it no longer exists. Chadwick. They turned it
(18:11):
into a car below a true actually as Orlando Airport Alright,
Carla got that. Chadwick got the first one, so it's
tied one. One winner of the next trivia question gets
to decide if they go first or second in the debate.
Question three, what is the name of the movie based
on a Stephen King short story that focuses on a
(18:31):
group of kids in a small Nebraska town. Who whoop?
That is Chadwick Boyd. Children of the corn Children of
the corn I'm excited for you, Chadwick, you got it right.
For bonus, what are the names name of the two kids?
And children of the court. Oh my god, I was
(18:53):
so impressed. I'm not for that, I am though, Yeah,
I mean, I mean, I mean you're a super horror fan.
If you know the answer, Isaac and Malachi for those
of you listening at home, if you want the big bonus,
if you got it right, well even I don't know,
Producer Crystals, shout out on the Instagram page and we'll
give you a shout out. That's what you get for
knowing that one. Children of the Corners, right, That means Chadwick,
(19:13):
you got to trivia questions. Right, you get to make
the big decision here. Do you want to present your
argument first? Or do you want Carla to go first?
M all right, I think I'll go first. All right,
Chadwick Boyd taking the rare, the rare decision to present
his argument first, and we'll get into that right after
(19:35):
this break. Oh my god, children are the corn and
we are pulling that one out back in the food court.
We have the case of Savory verse Sweet? Wait is
(19:57):
it first or versus first? That's a whole show about it.
It's like this one person who's a fan. I appreciate
them so much. They're one of our loyal eight fans.
But all right, Carla, you're arguing for Savory, Chadwick's defending
sweet Crystal. Do we need to make parameters here? Are
we talking about no sugar at all? Or are we
just talking about I'll let you get into okay, Chadwick,
(20:22):
before you go, because you're gonna get into it. It It
seems like so he's he's like, wait a second, this
changes everything. Judge may approach the bench. Chadwick wanted to
approach the bench, I could tell, but he's got an
injured knee. Are you we go. These are the rules.
You get the first three minutes to state your case,
but do not use your first three minutes in the negative.
This is all about the positive of your case. Afterwards,
(20:44):
you'll get two minutes in the rebuttal to really go
after your opponent, Chadwick three minutes to let us know
why sweet corn bread is the best. Your time starts now.
I mean, let's just ask, do you want to be
boring or do you want to be loved by millions
of people? And when it comes to cornbread, a little
(21:04):
bit of sweet wins the popular taste test every single time.
The best kind of corn bread is made in a hot,
cast iron skillet, for sure. And in my view, you
throw in some salty Benton's bacon and swirled around in
the pan and put it in the batter. But you've
got to balance that out and throw in some table sugar,
(21:27):
some brown sugar, honey, or any other acceptable sweet, and
it makes for that unmistakable caramelized, beautifully golden brown crust
that everybody loves. But you know, it's more than a
superficial exterior. It's what inside that matters the most. And
(21:49):
when it comes to going to grocery stores. You can't
taste the most important ingredient, which is corn, so it
needs a little bit of help to bring it out,
and that is a little bit of sweet corn bread
also is so popular. Let's just judge by the lines
(22:09):
Hattiebes Famous Dave's Boston Market. Everybody lines up for their
cornbread to take it home, including my nana, So that
gives it points. But you know, cornbread also gets a
big thumbs up by the Miss Whiskey and a tea
cup herself, Reese Weatherspoon. And you know who else puts
sugar in their sweet corn bread Snoop Dogg, Aisha Curry
(22:33):
and Tricia Yearwood. They did a cornbread SmackDown, and the
one that one overwhelmingly Aisha whooked Trisha Yearwood handily. But
you know, the biggest endorsement I think that matters here
is that the test kitchens of all sacred test kitchens,
(22:54):
the Southern Living Test Kitchen in Sweet Home, Birmingham, Alabama,
gives it a big thumbs up. All right, Chadwick, resting
your case and a formidable opening statement right there, Carla
Chadwick brought it. We have not had that many celebrity
names dropped in an opening argument. I mean really playing
(23:16):
to the to the to the Hollywood crowd here, I
mean Snoop Dogg making an appearance rees Reese with Curry.
More importantly, Nana shows up. Nana shows up in the argument,
and I have to agree that's kind of one that Haddie,
what do you? Nana likes it? And I was not
expecting Boston Market to make an appearance right next to
Hattie Bees? But who do Who hasn't stuffed their face
(23:38):
at a Boston market? Are there any of those left?
I think there are. I think there are. Can you
use coconut sugar? Don't answer right now, Chadwick, but I
want to know I'm not. I'm not doing any table sugar,
which is something else that you said there. But I'm
gonna turn off my my personal taste here. I'm listening
to just the arguments. It was a good one, Carla,
three minutes to let us know why we shouldn't have
maybe so much sugar and corn bread. You're three minutes
(24:00):
starts now savory corn bread. Think about it. The syllables
says it all. I think that when you think about
a perfect meal, you have sweet, sour, salty, bitter, little
bit of umami, all of the balance of all of
these flavors. When you have the perfect savory cord bread,
(24:22):
it is meant for sopping, sopping up the juices. The
pot liquor of greens, sopping up the all of that juices.
And barbecue sauce from ribs barbecue chicken. You have your
your your delicious pot liquor from green beans. When you
(24:45):
have that savory corn bread, it actually brings the meal together.
Your sweetness comes from other things. The sweetness is external.
You don't need sweet on sweet The sweetness was like
for the beautiful malac cis or maple sugar, I mean,
or maple syrup. The thing about that corn and savory
(25:07):
corn bread, the corn is the start the corn. When
the corn is perfectly ripe, the corn is enough. You
have salt in the corn bread to bring out the sweetness.
You don't need any more sugar. But the thing that
it is so delicious with other things. You have also
(25:29):
two types of corn bread. You have your hot water
corn bread, which is with beans, and again savory crispy
made in the skillet, but in the form of little
patties with crunchiness around. But that is a white corn meal.
You also have the yellow corn meal used in a
what my grandmother called an egg bread. So those are
(25:52):
two totally different things, equally delicious, generally used in different
applications depending on what you're going to eat it with. Also,
you have corn poems. You have when you think about
the savory corn bread, you think what can I put
with it? And I think that is when you can
(26:14):
lean into other garnishes. You can go more savory or
then you can go sweet. But it's all about choices.
Why say or when you can say and and that
and gives you options when that sugar is external. So
when I think about people who have talked about um
(26:34):
savory versus sweet corn bread, and I'm going to mention
some other culinary folks. Tony Tipton Martin, who has her
one of her books where she studies all of the
different old cookbooks where there was no sugar. You have
Michael Twitty, you have Adrian Miller, you have Ronnie Lundy,
you have who wrote victuals. She's in um Louisville, Kentucky
(27:00):
from the Mountains. All of these people suggest that savory
corn bread definitely has a place in history and sweet
didn't really come until later. So if it was okay
for my grandmother, my great grandmother and even my great
grandmother twice removed, it is okay with me. Man. I
(27:22):
feel bad about having to ring that bell, and you
really sort of dropped it, dropped it there at the end.
I have to say, another incredible opening argument, and I
like how you matched up. You matched up every sort
of celebrity name that Chadwick threw out there with a
with a real cook who made these things happen. Not
(27:45):
that not that Snoop Dogg is not a real cook.
I am not saying that at all. I know, I
know he throws down as well. Carla bringing it in
and I've said it before, is corn bread the John
c Riley of the meal. It makes everything better in
the mood be it's there for sopping. Was anyone else
listening to that and getting hungry? That's a pretty good
(28:06):
argument if you're listening to someone talk about food and
all of a sudden they're getting hungry. Chadwick, now you
have two minutes to let Carla know, while she's totally
wrong about savory corn bread, everything she said is not right. Chadwick.
Isn't that correct your two minutes of rebuttal starts now,
all right, So while baking sweet corn breads goes against
(28:30):
my Southwestern Virginia roots. And what my great grandmother, missus
Ella from Galax, Virginia, did you know what? She even
snuck in a little bit of sugar and her corn
and her other dishes. And I know for sure that
if sweet corn bread was put down on her table,
she would not snipe at it, she would definitely take
(28:51):
a big bite. So I learned long long ago to
follow her example, and I'm doing that today. Yes, Carla,
savory corn bread is great for greens, beans, Brunswick stew
and other staples. But why be so basic. Let's make
it work and be balanced with all the amazing cuisines
(29:15):
that we have today. I mean, doesn't that just limited
a little bit? I love the idea of mixing it
up with all the different kind of sweeteners today, including
coconut sugar. Throw in that buttermilk, the sour cream with
that tang. Add in that canned cream corn which has
(29:37):
some sugar in it, and maybe milk the cob to
get that sugary sweet, beautiful fresh corn flavor in and
sweet is what makes corn bread, complete, complete, and sweet.
You got thirty seconds. Chadwick, you are you resting your case?
I'm resting by case, resting your case. I have to,
(30:00):
like you know, with the exception of calling Carla's argument basic,
that was a very lovingly rebuttal. I mean it was not.
I would does anyone, No one would consider that fierce milking,
milking the cop. It's the farmer in me. I love it.
Checked it out. Okay, listen, you know sweetness coming in
(30:22):
the play. Maybe it's not just sugar. Maybe it's the buttermilk,
the can of cream corn. We've all done that. That's
time I make mariipas, which is a corn bread of storts,
isn't it? Alright? Carla, your two minutes starts now? All right? Well, Chadwick,
you mentioned Hattie Bees, you mentioned Famous Daves, you mentioned
Boston Market, you mentioned a few people have come on
(30:43):
the scene um in this in this industry. But I
think historically the reason I'm saying savory corn bread is
king because I'm thinking about history. And sometimes when you
think about history and food, people forget that that that
that dish didn't come on today or even five min
this before they started eating it. So when you think
about why sugar was added, and you think about the
(31:05):
industrial million of corn, and that still rollers were used,
and still rollers took corn that wasn't right, so it
wasn't sweet. So when this when when people started using
this during the Industrial Revolution, this corn had less flavor
so they needed and and it was ground much finer,
(31:28):
so it needed friends. It's like corn bread and friends.
It needed sugar, it needed flour. But flour plus sugar
equals cake. So when you take corn meal plus flour
plus sugar, that is cake. That's not necessarily the corn
bread that my grandmother, great grandmother and two more generations
(31:51):
actually made. And so when I think about resurrecting these
amazing dishes from the past and getting people to understand
and them and to know them and to truly know
our culture, I am reaching back before the industrial milling.
I'm also thinking about the cost of sugar. Sugar was
(32:11):
something that people couldn't afford. It was external. What was
on the table, molasses, that's what would have sweetened the
corn bread. But when you reach for sugar, which was
for some was cost prohibitive. So I think back to
those people and also right now, do we really want
to use sugar. We're going against using sugar. Now you
(32:33):
mentioned bacon, You mentioned Benton's bacon. Now you have all
of these other things to help the sweet corn bread,
to make the corn bread more savory. But actually when
in fact, Ulka, he's beinging me. But I was, I
was warm enough. Okay, something happened there, Carla I again,
I the love is here. There's nothing like the side
(32:57):
of an impassioned Carla Hall. By the way, we should
let it. We should just let that one roll for
the next five minutes. Carla Hall bringing it in the
rebuttal Chadwick opening statement, incredible, so much for me to
think about. Listen, everyone, this one is tough. This one
is tougher than I thought it would be. I am
going to retire to my chambers to muldus over. I'll
(33:18):
be back right after a quick break. I think I've
made up my mind. But before I give my final
verdict in this incredible battle of savory versus sweet corn bread,
do either of you have a final word to say, Chadwick,
anything you'd like to leave with this courtroom before the verdict.
(33:39):
I have to say, this is a really hard battle,
and Carla, I do love your corn bread? Fair enough?
Fair enough, Carla. Any final thoughts for the judge in
the court. Yes, um, I think that this argument is
also between everyday dishes and celebration dishes. When we are celebrating,
(34:00):
we might use a little more sugar. So Chadwick, I
understand why you would pull out the stops for the
celebration sweet corn bread, but really on an everyday basis,
I'm going for my savory and by the way, as
the good friends that they are. What a very nice
final moment. Everyone's sort of saying, you know what, I
(34:20):
love your corn bread. I see what you're saying, Chadwick.
Lots of love in this courtroom today. Unfortunately, this judge
does have to make a decision and it was very
very tough. I mean Chadwick's opening statement celebrities. He was
talking about Nana, he was talking about the hot skillet
and the beloved test kitchens. He doesn't want food to
be boring. Carla brought it back around and really was
(34:41):
talking about cornbread bringing everything together and and with it,
did you bring all of us together? I don't know.
I don't know if that happened, but it's sort of
history and authenticity, not being the lead actor versus bringing
everything together, versus being the main thing. This judge has
made a decision, and this courtroom, in this judge, I
(35:04):
really love sweet corn bread, but the sides in favor
of savory corn bread. Sorry. I think this one really
came down to the fact and Carla dropped it in
her rebuttal that if the corn is the corn is sweet,
corn is sweet? Do you have to buttermilk can be sweet?
(35:26):
Crystal is shaking your head. She totally disagrees with this court.
And I know everyone at home, or at least half
of you disagree with me as well, and you'll let
me know on on the Instagram here. Thank you so
much for joining me in the food court. I hope
you had a good time. You can find Carla on
Instagram at Carla P. Hall and her cookbook is called
Soul Food every Day and Celebration and her children's book
(35:47):
Carla and the Christmas corn Bread are available wherever you
get your books. Some of her recipes are available on
her website at Carla Hall dot com. You can find
Chadwick on Instagram at Chadwick Boyd and his recipes on
his side at Chadwick Boyd Lifestyle dot Com and as
a judge on Hallmark Channel's Christmas Cookie Matchup during the holidays.
(36:08):
Carla Chadwick, thank you so much for hanging out with us.
You crushed it. What a tougher. If you think I
gotta wrong, let us know on the food Court Pod, Instagram,
or at Richard Blaze across social media and at Richard
Blaze Official on TikTok. Food Court is a production of
I Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze. My producer is Crystal Bamahi.
Food Court was created by Christopher hassiotis the rest of
(36:29):
my food Court clerks or Jonathan Dressler, David Wasserman and
Jasmine Blaze. The theme song is by Jason ni Smith.
For more podcasts from Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. You didn't get it wrong. If you want
it sweet, add honey butter wait. I wasn't disagreeing. I
was saying I don't think buttermilk is sweet. That was
(36:50):
what I was disagreement. I don't disagree with clarify, but
I do have to say no, no sugar, Carla, And
you're when you're in your recipe. There's no sugar. No,
I add I'm sweet corn. I add Mark Horn, which
is going to see perspect awesome. If you ever need anything,
either of you, please don't hesitate to reach out. By all,
I have a great day. Did someone in this kitchen
(37:20):
put sugar and the corn bread
Yeah, Carlo Maya. I've got a ninety degree bend in
my leg, so I'm able to sit in a chair.
That Yeah, that's huge. That's huge. I had a major
accident at the end of April, and this actually is
part of my getting back into life by doing this,
I've been laid up for a long well. Welcome back,
(00:32):
food Court, food Court, Food Court with Richard Blaze. Are
you in the food court Court with rich Blase? Welcome
(00:58):
to the food Court of production of I Heart Radio.
I am Richard Blazon. I will be your host and
your judge in this courtroom of sorts. I'm gonna settle
your food fights and you will have to live with
my verdict whatever it is. Joining us in the court today,
we have two chefs who both have ties to the South.
They know their stuff, so I'm really not looking forward
(01:20):
to telling one of them they're totally wrong today, but
it will happen. Our first guest I've known for a
long time, which I don't even like Crystal he wrote this,
but like that, just it makes us seem older than
we are because we're so young, and we've actually competed
against each other. But who cares about competition? Anyway, way
back on Top Chef All Stars. You may know her
(01:41):
from shows like The Chew and Crazy Delicious or some
of the other hundreds of shows and movies and appearances
and things that she's done. Welcome Carla Hall. Oh my
gosh the hoodie. Oo. I can't believe you dropped it
(02:01):
so early. I did. I may have to use it
again when I get a point, but you know, I
think so, I think, so did you? Okay, listen, We're
gonna just get right into it. Were you know friendly banters?
The who do you when you? When you when you
do it for the first time? And again I know
you do well before you're in front of a camera. Right,
This is like something you say. It's it's authentic. Did
(02:22):
you know did you know in the moment you had
to catch phrase? No? No, I was just living as
I do. That's why I have a couple of gifts,
I think, because I just I'm a character anyway, So
what can I say? There it is, but it's stuck
with you and you and you and you don't mind
(02:42):
it now right now? Only think I don't even mind
when people misspell it. But I you know, wait a second, wait, wait,
how do you spell it, it's h o O T
I e h o oh. But people will go w
h o o t y w ho. But actually, which
(03:04):
is not bad because when they who do who be?
I'm like who? So you know, I love that there's
a wrong spelling to it, and then you've come to
grips with accepting it. It's okay if you misspell who
do you? I'll go back who do you? Who do you? Too?
With the correct spelling, So you know, it's just like
a little I love it. I am jealous of many things, Carla,
(03:26):
that you've accomplished and continue to accomplish, and I'm okay
with that. But one is your catchphrase, like I've never
had a catchphrase and that you're like and it's and
it continues and it's natural and it's authentic. Like I
don't think Emerald runs around being like bam, like when
he's just at home, but I feel like you say
who do you when you're out of target or whatever? No,
we do we do. As a matter of fact, Matthew
says it, it's actually a four part call, which is
(03:47):
really embarrassing. Matthew will say whoever gets home second, and
like who do you? And then the person who's in
the house is like who, and then that person goes.
So that part makes us really weird, but just wanted
to drop that because we are weird, really weird, but safe.
Like like, if you need to get to the panic
room in your house, you got like a four. You
(04:09):
got everything set up right, you have the redundancy is
figured out so that you know, no, no one's gonna
trick you with a fake hootie call. That's right, that's right,
all right, Well listen, I mean it's a tough battle
already going up against Carla is her friend, fellow chef,
TV host, author and entrepreneur, coming back from a serious
(04:30):
duck cone feet inspired injury. It's Chadwick Boyd here, everybody,
what's going on? We're terried for those of you who
can't see, because none of you can because this is
a podcast. Chadwick is in his kitchen ready to cook.
Do you have any idea what's happening in this this
this show here? Chadwick, I actually came prepared because when
(04:53):
we're talking about what we're talking about with the one
and only Carla Hall, you gotta you gotta bring your game.
I love that for well, I love how Like also,
how professional you are that you did not drop and
reveal what we're about to battle about, like, because a
lot of people right off the bat we gotta cut it.
They get into it, and no, a pro the consummate profect,
(05:14):
not consummate the consummate professional consummate cooking. I do have
the cast iron sitting next to me because I wanted
that to be my leg ding ding ding. I like it.
And by the way, you may have inspired the spinoff
to food Court where cooking is involved. What do you think?
I heart radio. Let's do it. Let's do it all right, listen, Carl,
I know that. Well, you're doing everything, but you've been
doing a lot of judging. You can't turn on a
(05:36):
TV without seeing you. You can't be in an airplane
without seeing quite honestly, again, I'm just like, where where
where are you not? How can you be in all
these different places? Hustle muscle, Richard, I have a really
strong hustle mussel. Yeah you do. I like that. Where
is the hustle muscle located? It's it's it's somewhere in
between back your occipital lobe, honestly so. But it ties
(05:59):
then to your heart art so it goes right back
here from your occipital load down through your throat into
your heart and then it touches a little bit in
the stomach. It's actually one of the largest muscles that
is not discussed in your body. I love it here. Yeah, yeah,
this is this is this is the therapy. This is
(06:20):
therapy with Carla Hall. We were launching a separate podcast here. Um, Carla,
did you coin Cooking with Love too? Like, I'm just
thinking that I totally sober, Like I feel like you're
one of the first chefs I've ever heard, Like you
just made that connection. You were like, no, right down
to the heart into the soul, like did you were
you interesting enough? I don't think I coined it. I
(06:41):
think I talked about it, and I think that a
lot of people were then comfortable. I don't think a
lot of people wanted to say it out loud. I
think people felt it, and then after I talked about it,
there were more people actually talking about cooking with Love
and how it really makes sense, And so I don't
I I don't think I coined it, but I think
(07:02):
that being on a show that was gaining popularity and
anything that we've said probably was was coined because of
its popularity. I mean, Fabio was talking about bunky beds,
you know what I mean? Or one time I think
I've said it on the show. He's not here. We
(07:22):
gotta get him on Fabio. But well, my favorite thing
Fabio ever said to me was he he ate five
ice cream sandwiches in a row one night. I don't
know if you were there, Carla, and he said, I
am going to commit suicide by ice cream sandwich. And
I don't know, I was not there. It was just
that type of day. And you know, yeah, I'm just
(07:43):
saying it was, you know, something that was said. But
I remember there are a lot of There are a
lot of Fabio is ms. If this is top Chef
not top scallop. You know, he said a lot of things.
So he said continues too. By the way, if if
you follow him, he continues, shoo, he's carl. I remember
when you said when you sort of made that connection.
I mean, I'm being revealing here. It's not this type
(08:05):
of podcast. But I remember realizing that I could not
beat that. I remember realizing that I didn't have that mechanism.
I My food wasn't connected to love. I didn't view
it that way, and it's pretty sad now to say it,
but thank you because you did teach me to sort
of change the way I cook and realize that there's
a lot more to it than just measuring something out
(08:25):
or being ultra creative. And I was more like a cyborg.
I was visioned from the Avengers, which is a formidable foe.
But you cannot you know, you can't beat love. You
can't beat something that's just like I don't even know.
I don't even know how to describe that. So think
you know what's so interesting about that? I think that
I can taste the which is which is why when
I'm judging on all of these competition shows, these baking shows,
(08:49):
I can actually taste someone's heart in the food. I
can taste it at a restaurant, I can taste it
when I'm judging someone. And that's what I look for.
I mean, other judges may look for other things, so
that's why you have different judges. But I can actually
taste it. I taste a fraud. Yeah, But you know what,
I will say this too, as a judge host all
those sort of things. A lot of people say they
(09:10):
don't mean it, Carla. That's why I'm glad you can
taste it, because a lot of people now they're like, oh,
I know what to say if I get in trouble here.
This is from This is all about love, but it
needed salt. We gotta wrap this part up. Chadwick, thanks
for for being a part of the reunion there. Chadwick,
where are you? Where are you from? And what's your
food background? Because I think it's sort of connects the
(09:31):
dots today, doesn't it. Yeah, so it's kind of an anomaly.
I was born in southeastern Pennsylvania, and my bloodline is
complete farmers. I'm the first one in my family that
is not a practicing farmer. And my great grandfather was
a tenant farmer from southwestern Virginia and they came up
(09:52):
and settled in the bottom right corner of Pennsylvania where
there's a ton of Southerners. So I grew up half
Pennsylvania Dutch, half Virginia Southern, and so I've got all
that in the mix. And I've actually lived in the
American South now for thirty five years, so it's my
home and I go back and forth between New York
(10:12):
and Atlanta, and it's all I know. Oh, I love it. Now,
is it? Do you think it's safe to say that
Southern food is the only true American food? Is there
an argument to be made? Oh, Carla, there's not a
question to both of us. I mean clearly from I mean,
I'm from the South, and I have to say that
(10:32):
is not true. Okay, all right, yeah, I mean it's
it just can't be true because then we negate all
of the changes that came through the South and other
places that are quintessentially American. How about the first Well, no,
I guess you can't say that either. Okay, there's a
lot of but to that point, there's a lot of
(10:53):
roots that were brought here and then planted and then
has become cuisines that we now cook with and then
joy and thankfully because we have traveled all over the country,
we get to get good food from certain places in
new cities around the country. Here's what I was trying
to say. I'm trying to get both you to agree
(11:13):
with me here. I think it still needs a little bit.
People need to respect Southern cuisine. That's what I'm saying.
Like it's it's it's so important to our story, and
it's so delicious, and I just think it doesn't get
the respect that it deserves. Sometimes sometimes agreed, but I'm
(11:34):
also yes, southern food. But then because I'm because I'm
black or African American from the South, I also have
to add soul food to that. So what's the difference
between soul food and Southern food? You know? And for me,
it's simply black cooks. So yeah, we're still in that place. Okay,
(11:54):
try to take three and I'm just kidding on this, kidding,
how about you start give us the opening line, Take three,
car the hall on Southern cuisine. No, no, no, no,
But I get it. I get it. I think that.
I think that. And interestingly enough, when you think about
the America's when you think about Virginia and and how
our country started, it's sort of right there in the South,
(12:15):
you know which is going to come out of that space,
and you know Virginia Barbecue and all of that. So
I I think that you're right, there is a place
for Southern food and it needs to be respected because
our routes are there and so many cuisines come out
of there and spread out across America. Well, don I
would say that you know, Southern foods has definitely grown
(12:38):
in terms of respect and is understood a lot more,
especially in the last twenty years. You know, I went
to school in North Carolina and food that was regional
foods from there. Now so many more people know about
it today than before. I mean, we've got barbecue competitions where,
you know, all over TV, where people now understand that
(13:00):
are different types of barbecue. So I think the it
certainly has grown in people's understanding of it. And it's
nothing better than food made with love and Southern food. Listen,
I love it. Listen. We're gonna quick, quick, hot, take
your favorite style of barbecue quick Chadwick, North Carolina. Okay,
you like vinegar, Carla barbecue, Oh my gosh, Memphis because
(13:21):
it's sticky. I want vinegar and tomato and a little
heat in Memphis, little heat. I like it. That was
a good lightning around. Okay, here we go. Listen, we're
gonna get into the battle because we've just been hanging
out having way too much fun. And the segue will
be this, Carla, of the many things that you've done,
the many accomplishments, the the award winning and best selling cookbooks,
(13:42):
that have to do with with everything. But you had
a cookbook and it's called Carla and the Christmas corn Bread,
a children's book, which is right behind you. If you
can't see this, one of Carla's many assistants just ran, No,
I'm just kidding. Carla actually reached back and right that
there it is behind her, Carla and the Christmas corn Bread.
So with that being said, Carla, what is the case
(14:05):
that you've brought to the food court today? I have
brought the case that corn bread should not be sweet.
Bread should not be sweet. A lot of people's minds
blown right now listening to this, and Chadwick that means
what that means? Hell no, it's got to have some sweet.
(14:29):
It's got to have some sugar, some money, some good
stuff into it. M Okay. So this is a deep
dive right here, and us always, I will turn my
personal feelings totally off here and base my judgment today
solely on the cases presented. But let me just say
that on Top Chef All Stars, I did finish my
final meal of the competition as a dessert with corn bread.
(14:53):
That's I mean, I'm just I'm glad that I got
that off my chest. Now listen, Carla Dwick. Before we
get into the arguments. Here in my court, and in
most courts, let's be honest, there's a quick trivia around
before we get into the actual debates. The winner of
the trivia round gets to decide the order that you present.
Carla and Chadwick, you have to figure out a way
(15:14):
to chime in, to buzz in to answer the trivia questions. Carla,
what buzzer sound noise will you be making to answer
the trivia questions? So let's hear it again. Carla's noises
it so it kind of like a negative buzzer negative
about traditional ding dong, ding dong. Okay, there we go
(15:34):
ding dong for carl expecting who do you who? Weren't
we all, Chadwick? Where we all? But like, you know
how much we have to pay her if she says
who do you who? Like more than four times on
a podcast, I've read the contract. There's no cont Chadwick.
What is your noise gonna be? I'm gonna do whoo
whoo whoo whoop. Okay, we gotta whoo whoop, we gotta
ding dong. Lots of noises to be said. Here we
(15:56):
go We're getting into the trivia around three questions. Question one,
it's multiple choice. In America, which state grows the most corn?
A Iowa? B Illinois, see Indiana. That's Chadwick with the
whoop whoop Iowa. The answer you would think would be Iowa,
and it is Iowa. Iowa is correct, all right. Number
(16:22):
two is Illinois. Number three is Nebraska, which wasn't even
on that list. That makes sense. They were the corn Huskers,
right like that totally makes so much corn coming out
of the middle of the country. I did a show
in Iowa somewhat recently, and it's just it's like the
flint Stones, but in real life, you know, the flint
Stones is every it's just three houses on repeat. But
in Iowa it's just corn. But it's not on repeat.
(16:42):
It's just that's Iowa. Alright, Chadwick, you're up one zero.
Heading into question two. In the South, there's an old
treat where you mix cornbread and a liquid in a
glass and then eat it with a spoon. What is
the liquid? That's Carla Hall with the ding dong buttermilk.
(17:04):
Buttermilk is correct. That was a dunk of of the
corn bread in the buttermilk right there. Producer Crystal's grandpa
ate this all the time and she's still scarred from
the time she tried a bite of it when she
was five years old. It is so bad. I like
didn't know that buttermilk was sour, so I had no
idea that he was eating something sour. That's what it is.
(17:28):
Great Granddaddy's favorite treat, was it. Everyone's granddad old people
love this like love it. Love that to me. You know,
you know what my granddad. I did not grow up
in the South corn dogs from Arthur Treachers. Does anyone
even know how old am I? Right now? I know
Arthur Treacher. Okay, you know the Arthur treat. It was
like my granddaddy with your right. My granddaddy loved corn
(17:51):
dogs from Arthur Tree. It was more of a fish
and chip shop. But bring back Arthur Treachers. Can we
get Arthur Treachers to sponsor the show their one remaining location?
There's no way they have. Can someone do a quick check?
Where's the last? Is there any remaining Arthur future one
in the airport, still in an airport somewhere. It's Miami
Airport and it no longer exists. Chadwick. They turned it
(18:11):
into a car below a true actually as Orlando Airport Alright,
Carla got that. Chadwick got the first one, so it's
tied one. One winner of the next trivia question gets
to decide if they go first or second in the debate.
Question three, what is the name of the movie based
on a Stephen King short story that focuses on a
(18:31):
group of kids in a small Nebraska town. Who whoop?
That is Chadwick Boyd. Children of the corn Children of
the corn I'm excited for you, Chadwick, you got it right.
For bonus, what are the names name of the two kids?
And children of the court. Oh my god, I was
(18:53):
so impressed. I'm not for that, I am though, Yeah,
I mean, I mean, I mean you're a super horror fan.
If you know the answer, Isaac and Malachi for those
of you listening at home, if you want the big bonus,
if you got it right, well even I don't know,
Producer Crystals, shout out on the Instagram page and we'll
give you a shout out. That's what you get for
knowing that one. Children of the Corners, right, That means Chadwick,
(19:13):
you got to trivia questions. Right, you get to make
the big decision here. Do you want to present your
argument first? Or do you want Carla to go first?
M all right, I think I'll go first. All right,
Chadwick Boyd taking the rare, the rare decision to present
his argument first, and we'll get into that right after
(19:35):
this break. Oh my god, children are the corn and
we are pulling that one out back in the food court.
We have the case of Savory verse Sweet? Wait is
(19:57):
it first or versus first? That's a whole show about it.
It's like this one person who's a fan. I appreciate
them so much. They're one of our loyal eight fans.
But all right, Carla, you're arguing for Savory, Chadwick's defending
sweet Crystal. Do we need to make parameters here? Are
we talking about no sugar at all? Or are we
just talking about I'll let you get into okay, Chadwick,
(20:22):
before you go, because you're gonna get into it. It It
seems like so he's he's like, wait a second, this
changes everything. Judge may approach the bench. Chadwick wanted to
approach the bench, I could tell, but he's got an
injured knee. Are you we go. These are the rules.
You get the first three minutes to state your case,
but do not use your first three minutes in the negative.
This is all about the positive of your case. Afterwards,
(20:44):
you'll get two minutes in the rebuttal to really go
after your opponent, Chadwick three minutes to let us know
why sweet corn bread is the best. Your time starts now.
I mean, let's just ask, do you want to be
boring or do you want to be loved by millions
of people? And when it comes to cornbread, a little
(21:04):
bit of sweet wins the popular taste test every single time.
The best kind of corn bread is made in a hot,
cast iron skillet, for sure. And in my view, you
throw in some salty Benton's bacon and swirled around in
the pan and put it in the batter. But you've
got to balance that out and throw in some table sugar,
(21:27):
some brown sugar, honey, or any other acceptable sweet, and
it makes for that unmistakable caramelized, beautifully golden brown crust
that everybody loves. But you know, it's more than a
superficial exterior. It's what inside that matters the most. And
(21:49):
when it comes to going to grocery stores. You can't
taste the most important ingredient, which is corn, so it
needs a little bit of help to bring it out,
and that is a little bit of sweet corn bread
also is so popular. Let's just judge by the lines
(22:09):
Hattiebes Famous Dave's Boston Market. Everybody lines up for their
cornbread to take it home, including my nana, So that
gives it points. But you know, cornbread also gets a
big thumbs up by the Miss Whiskey and a tea
cup herself, Reese Weatherspoon. And you know who else puts
sugar in their sweet corn bread Snoop Dogg, Aisha Curry
(22:33):
and Tricia Yearwood. They did a cornbread SmackDown, and the
one that one overwhelmingly Aisha whooked Trisha Yearwood handily. But
you know, the biggest endorsement I think that matters here
is that the test kitchens of all sacred test kitchens,
(22:54):
the Southern Living Test Kitchen in Sweet Home, Birmingham, Alabama,
gives it a big thumbs up. All right, Chadwick, resting
your case and a formidable opening statement right there, Carla
Chadwick brought it. We have not had that many celebrity
names dropped in an opening argument. I mean really playing
(23:16):
to the to the to the Hollywood crowd here, I
mean Snoop Dogg making an appearance rees Reese with Curry.
More importantly, Nana shows up. Nana shows up in the argument,
and I have to agree that's kind of one that Haddie,
what do you? Nana likes it? And I was not
expecting Boston Market to make an appearance right next to
Hattie Bees? But who do Who hasn't stuffed their face
(23:38):
at a Boston market? Are there any of those left?
I think there are. I think there are. Can you
use coconut sugar? Don't answer right now, Chadwick, but I
want to know I'm not. I'm not doing any table sugar,
which is something else that you said there. But I'm
gonna turn off my my personal taste here. I'm listening
to just the arguments. It was a good one, Carla,
three minutes to let us know why we shouldn't have
maybe so much sugar and corn bread. You're three minutes
(24:00):
starts now savory corn bread. Think about it. The syllables
says it all. I think that when you think about
a perfect meal, you have sweet, sour, salty, bitter, little
bit of umami, all of the balance of all of
these flavors. When you have the perfect savory cord bread,
(24:22):
it is meant for sopping, sopping up the juices. The
pot liquor of greens, sopping up the all of that juices.
And barbecue sauce from ribs barbecue chicken. You have your
your your delicious pot liquor from green beans. When you
(24:45):
have that savory corn bread, it actually brings the meal together.
Your sweetness comes from other things. The sweetness is external.
You don't need sweet on sweet The sweetness was like
for the beautiful malac cis or maple sugar, I mean,
or maple syrup. The thing about that corn and savory
(25:07):
corn bread, the corn is the start the corn. When
the corn is perfectly ripe, the corn is enough. You
have salt in the corn bread to bring out the sweetness.
You don't need any more sugar. But the thing that
it is so delicious with other things. You have also
(25:29):
two types of corn bread. You have your hot water
corn bread, which is with beans, and again savory crispy
made in the skillet, but in the form of little
patties with crunchiness around. But that is a white corn meal.
You also have the yellow corn meal used in a
what my grandmother called an egg bread. So those are
(25:52):
two totally different things, equally delicious, generally used in different
applications depending on what you're going to eat it with. Also,
you have corn poems. You have when you think about
the savory corn bread, you think what can I put
with it? And I think that is when you can
(26:14):
lean into other garnishes. You can go more savory or
then you can go sweet. But it's all about choices.
Why say or when you can say and and that
and gives you options when that sugar is external. So
when I think about people who have talked about um
(26:34):
savory versus sweet corn bread, and I'm going to mention
some other culinary folks. Tony Tipton Martin, who has her
one of her books where she studies all of the
different old cookbooks where there was no sugar. You have
Michael Twitty, you have Adrian Miller, you have Ronnie Lundy,
you have who wrote victuals. She's in um Louisville, Kentucky
(27:00):
from the Mountains. All of these people suggest that savory
corn bread definitely has a place in history and sweet
didn't really come until later. So if it was okay
for my grandmother, my great grandmother and even my great
grandmother twice removed, it is okay with me. Man. I
(27:22):
feel bad about having to ring that bell, and you
really sort of dropped it, dropped it there at the end.
I have to say, another incredible opening argument, and I
like how you matched up. You matched up every sort
of celebrity name that Chadwick threw out there with a
with a real cook who made these things happen. Not
(27:45):
that not that Snoop Dogg is not a real cook.
I am not saying that at all. I know, I
know he throws down as well. Carla bringing it in
and I've said it before, is corn bread the John
c Riley of the meal. It makes everything better in
the mood be it's there for sopping. Was anyone else
listening to that and getting hungry? That's a pretty good
(28:06):
argument if you're listening to someone talk about food and
all of a sudden they're getting hungry. Chadwick, now you
have two minutes to let Carla know, while she's totally
wrong about savory corn bread, everything she said is not right. Chadwick.
Isn't that correct your two minutes of rebuttal starts now,
all right, So while baking sweet corn breads goes against
(28:30):
my Southwestern Virginia roots. And what my great grandmother, missus
Ella from Galax, Virginia, did you know what? She even
snuck in a little bit of sugar and her corn
and her other dishes. And I know for sure that
if sweet corn bread was put down on her table,
she would not snipe at it, she would definitely take
(28:51):
a big bite. So I learned long long ago to
follow her example, and I'm doing that today. Yes, Carla,
savory corn bread is great for greens, beans, Brunswick stew
and other staples. But why be so basic. Let's make
it work and be balanced with all the amazing cuisines
(29:15):
that we have today. I mean, doesn't that just limited
a little bit? I love the idea of mixing it
up with all the different kind of sweeteners today, including
coconut sugar. Throw in that buttermilk, the sour cream with
that tang. Add in that canned cream corn which has
(29:37):
some sugar in it, and maybe milk the cob to
get that sugary sweet, beautiful fresh corn flavor in and
sweet is what makes corn bread, complete, complete, and sweet.
You got thirty seconds. Chadwick, you are you resting your case?
I'm resting by case, resting your case. I have to,
(30:00):
like you know, with the exception of calling Carla's argument basic,
that was a very lovingly rebuttal. I mean it was not.
I would does anyone, No one would consider that fierce milking,
milking the cop. It's the farmer in me. I love it.
Checked it out. Okay, listen, you know sweetness coming in
(30:22):
the play. Maybe it's not just sugar. Maybe it's the buttermilk,
the can of cream corn. We've all done that. That's
time I make mariipas, which is a corn bread of storts,
isn't it? Alright? Carla, your two minutes starts now? All right? Well, Chadwick,
you mentioned Hattie Bees, you mentioned Famous Daves, you mentioned
Boston Market, you mentioned a few people have come on
(30:43):
the scene um in this in this industry. But I
think historically the reason I'm saying savory corn bread is
king because I'm thinking about history. And sometimes when you
think about history and food, people forget that that that
that dish didn't come on today or even five min
this before they started eating it. So when you think
about why sugar was added, and you think about the
(31:05):
industrial million of corn, and that still rollers were used,
and still rollers took corn that wasn't right, so it
wasn't sweet. So when this when when people started using
this during the Industrial Revolution, this corn had less flavor
so they needed and and it was ground much finer,
(31:28):
so it needed friends. It's like corn bread and friends.
It needed sugar, it needed flour. But flour plus sugar
equals cake. So when you take corn meal plus flour
plus sugar, that is cake. That's not necessarily the corn
bread that my grandmother, great grandmother and two more generations
(31:51):
actually made. And so when I think about resurrecting these
amazing dishes from the past and getting people to understand
and them and to know them and to truly know
our culture, I am reaching back before the industrial milling.
I'm also thinking about the cost of sugar. Sugar was
(32:11):
something that people couldn't afford. It was external. What was
on the table, molasses, that's what would have sweetened the
corn bread. But when you reach for sugar, which was
for some was cost prohibitive. So I think back to
those people and also right now, do we really want
to use sugar. We're going against using sugar. Now you
(32:33):
mentioned bacon, You mentioned Benton's bacon. Now you have all
of these other things to help the sweet corn bread,
to make the corn bread more savory. But actually when
in fact, Ulka, he's beinging me. But I was, I
was warm enough. Okay, something happened there, Carla I again,
I the love is here. There's nothing like the side
(32:57):
of an impassioned Carla Hall. By the way, we should
let it. We should just let that one roll for
the next five minutes. Carla Hall bringing it in the
rebuttal Chadwick opening statement, incredible, so much for me to
think about. Listen, everyone, this one is tough. This one
is tougher than I thought it would be. I am
going to retire to my chambers to muldus over. I'll
(33:18):
be back right after a quick break. I think I've
made up my mind. But before I give my final
verdict in this incredible battle of savory versus sweet corn bread,
do either of you have a final word to say, Chadwick,
anything you'd like to leave with this courtroom before the verdict.
(33:39):
I have to say, this is a really hard battle,
and Carla, I do love your corn bread? Fair enough?
Fair enough, Carla. Any final thoughts for the judge in
the court. Yes, um, I think that this argument is
also between everyday dishes and celebration dishes. When we are celebrating,
(34:00):
we might use a little more sugar. So Chadwick, I
understand why you would pull out the stops for the
celebration sweet corn bread, but really on an everyday basis,
I'm going for my savory and by the way, as
the good friends that they are. What a very nice
final moment. Everyone's sort of saying, you know what, I
(34:20):
love your corn bread. I see what you're saying, Chadwick.
Lots of love in this courtroom today. Unfortunately, this judge
does have to make a decision and it was very
very tough. I mean Chadwick's opening statement celebrities. He was
talking about Nana, he was talking about the hot skillet
and the beloved test kitchens. He doesn't want food to
be boring. Carla brought it back around and really was
(34:41):
talking about cornbread bringing everything together and and with it,
did you bring all of us together? I don't know.
I don't know if that happened, but it's sort of
history and authenticity, not being the lead actor versus bringing
everything together, versus being the main thing. This judge has
made a decision, and this courtroom, in this judge, I
(35:04):
really love sweet corn bread, but the sides in favor
of savory corn bread. Sorry. I think this one really
came down to the fact and Carla dropped it in
her rebuttal that if the corn is the corn is sweet,
corn is sweet? Do you have to buttermilk can be sweet?
(35:26):
Crystal is shaking your head. She totally disagrees with this court.
And I know everyone at home, or at least half
of you disagree with me as well, and you'll let
me know on on the Instagram here. Thank you so
much for joining me in the food court. I hope
you had a good time. You can find Carla on
Instagram at Carla P. Hall and her cookbook is called
Soul Food every Day and Celebration and her children's book
(35:47):
Carla and the Christmas corn Bread are available wherever you
get your books. Some of her recipes are available on
her website at Carla Hall dot com. You can find
Chadwick on Instagram at Chadwick Boyd and his recipes on
his side at Chadwick Boyd Lifestyle dot Com and as
a judge on Hallmark Channel's Christmas Cookie Matchup during the holidays.
(36:08):
Carla Chadwick, thank you so much for hanging out with us.
You crushed it. What a tougher. If you think I
gotta wrong, let us know on the food Court Pod, Instagram,
or at Richard Blaze across social media and at Richard
Blaze Official on TikTok. Food Court is a production of
I Heart Radio. I'm Richard Blaze. My producer is Crystal Bamahi.
Food Court was created by Christopher hassiotis the rest of
(36:29):
my food Court clerks or Jonathan Dressler, David Wasserman and
Jasmine Blaze. The theme song is by Jason ni Smith.
For more podcasts from Heart Radio, visit the I Heart
Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to your
favorite shows. You didn't get it wrong. If you want
it sweet, add honey butter wait. I wasn't disagreeing. I
was saying I don't think buttermilk is sweet. That was
(36:50):
what I was disagreement. I don't disagree with clarify, but
I do have to say no, no sugar, Carla, And
you're when you're in your recipe. There's no sugar. No,
I add I'm sweet corn. I add Mark Horn, which
is going to see perspect awesome. If you ever need anything,
either of you, please don't hesitate to reach out. By all,
I have a great day. Did someone in this kitchen
(37:20):
put sugar and the corn bread
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