September 23, 2021 • 42 mins
On this episode of Good Friend, Jamie has a conversation with her friend Alexandra Hedison about their well-earned friendship, being beacons for one another, and their tight-knit friend group, "The Besties"
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If something don't already, I know I'll get it. I'm
a good friend. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and
you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you
by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We
(00:22):
talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about
what it really means to be a good friend. And
I have conversations with some of my best friends, some
people I've never met, and sort of everything in between.
So I hope by the end of it that you
(00:44):
have a really good sense of what friendship means to
me and the people that I consider friends. And I
hope you can take those same ideas into your own
friendship groups. And I hope you enjoy it. I don't already.
And the lot of a good friend. So for my
(01:10):
uninitiated listener, um, I believe Alexander, we have at least
one here on the Good Friend Podcast. My guest is
my friend Alexandra Hettrison, who I have the great privilege
to call a good friend, A good earned, good hard
(01:32):
friendship earned. Wouldn't you say that? Yeah? Yeah, you know,
good friends, you earn them. I don't think good friends happen.
I think you can have friends. But to have a
good friend, I think you earned that badge of goodness.
I would agree with that. I know that it's it's
(01:54):
something that happens over time. Yeah, how to what would
be the how would you earn? It's like in the
Girl Scouts? How would you earn your badge? Your good
friend badge? What would you describe the qualities? Well, it's
interesting just the word arn, earn and you said the
good girl badge. There's something about that. This This can
(02:17):
go two ways because I think that you and I
are both trained. We grew up in a way where
you had to earn something, and this idea of I
need to earn something to be the good girl, to
be the good friend, to get that confirmation from outside
(02:40):
of myself that I am worthy of whatever it is
that I'm seeking. And so I would say as a
as a friend, that I have now earned the privilege myself,
just through my own growth and knowing myself, that I
(03:00):
know that I can just be myself and be with
someone who is also themselves, and together we get to
share ourselves. We get to share each other and we
don't actually have to do or get or or earn
or earn and still real trust, real relationship I think
(03:26):
takes um time. That's a story that unfolds over time. Yeah,
and I'm certainly not suggesting it's transactional on any level
except experientially transactional. Like I don't think I would have
a good friend that has not been in as I
like to refer to it, in certain circles that I frequent,
(03:48):
you know, my turn in the barrel. That when I've
been in the barrel of life, when I've just been
bounced around in the barrel of life, the people that
are there I emerge are my good friends. And that
isn't a transactional relationship. It's not based on materialism. It's
based on emotionalism. Right, And yet I just I wanted
(04:12):
to highlight the word earn for a minute because I know,
for me, at least, I have caught myself in the
act of magnificently wrapping something or going to tend stores
to find the perfect whatever. And I have, as I've
gotten older, had to question that motivation. I've had to
(04:34):
examine it a little bit and say, what what is
it that I'm doing and at what point is it enough?
And I get so much pleasure, as you know, out
of wrapping a gift or giving a gift. By the way,
you're an exquisite gift giver. It is part of your
essence is the ability to know someone, see an object
(04:58):
or something beautiful, whatever it is, figure out a way
to somehow present that to the person as a gesture
of friendship or a gift giving time. We all give
ourselves gifts. I mean, think about it. Everybody has a birthday.
Every year, there's you know, holiday gift giving. Uh that
(05:19):
if you're married or you have a significant person, there's
that anniversary. And if you end up having children, there
those I mean, it's it's every I mean, Hallmark has
made a you know, a life of a wealth life
out of the act of giving. But you have that
in a very powerful way. You have an artist's eye
(05:43):
and exquisite taste. Thank you, Jamie, It's true. That's really nice.
We we became friends. It's so interesting because we became
friends from a distance in a way, and it was
from a distance when we connected. Um we Alexander and I.
(06:07):
Without getting any personal story in here, there was a
moment where Alexandra was away out of the state where
I live and where we both live, and we had
a conversation. It was our first real conversation, and we
(06:27):
talked about my stepfather who was survived in avalanche and
for my listener. And by the way, Alexandra, we have
a listener. I'm sure I have a listener, and we
speak to my listener just because I haven't named them
because then that would be weird, but they know who
(06:47):
they are, my listener. So to my uninitiated listener, my stepfather,
Bob Brandt, was helicopter skiing in the bug A Booze
in Canada with a group of friends. And when you
helicopter ski, everybody wears a censor, an avalanche beacon that
(07:08):
everybody turns to send when they descend down the the peace,
as the Europeans would say, the run and then God forbid,
an avalanche occurs and they are enveloped by the avalanche.
Everyone who has survived it, who are outside of the
(07:29):
avalanche turned their beacon to receive, and then the sender's
beacon registers and that's how you locate people. And when
my stepfather was in this accident, someone in the adrenaline
moment forgot to turn their's and so for five minutes
(07:55):
or ten minutes the rescue party was following a beacon
of somebody not under the snow, and when they realized
that moment and they turned that person's beacon to receive,
they were able to find my dad. But he was
minutes from death. You know, his hands were very close
(08:15):
to his face and he had made his peace that
he was gonna die. And Alexander and my first conversation
was about beacons, sending out a beacon to each other.
That we made a pact, I believe, yeah, and we
said in this brand new friendship, brand new friendship, I
(08:39):
think we discussed the idea that we would be each
other's beacon and that if we were in trouble, we
would send a text with a beacon and we would
know what that meant, a little red flashing light or
whatever it was. I think it was a plus sign
that that the we sort of did a series of
plus signs, because I think at that year phones were
not that fancy. We didn't have emojis, and we didn't
(09:01):
have things, So it was just a repeated plus sign
that was basically saying, beacon on, right, beacon on. And
I really think our friendship, our good friendship, began then
we were friends. We we knew each other, but we
didn't know each other, and that was the beginning of
(09:21):
the good friendship. And the beacon on was a shorthand
for saying, I am open to receive you wherever you are,
however you are, whatever is going on with you. I
am here in the same way that the person the
other person says beacon on. And it's a way of
(09:43):
speaking a language to each other that we didn't even
know we shared yet. And I remember that so well.
I'm glad you remember it too. I do remember it
when you were little. Let's just go back from you know,
obviously it's a show called Good friend People have talked
(10:04):
about all aspects of friendship from when they were little
family who become you know, obviously friends. Just talk to
me a little bit about your early life and friendships
and how how did you make them. Were you in
a crew, were you a one on you know, explain
a little more about like what your that friend terrain
(10:26):
was within you mm hmm. I was always a one
on one person. I think that even at an early age,
I liked somewhat of a deep dive, meaning the intimacy
of a one on one the safety of that, and
(10:46):
I had good friends from an early age. I remember
I had a friend I had in preschool and as
far as I know, it was my only friend. And
then later I made a couple of friends, maybe when
I was round ten or twelve, and they stayed my
friends through high school. I still I still know these women,
(11:06):
and of course our life lives changed, and but I
was never part of a group. I think that I
was friends with lots of people, but my good friends
were I had two or three and they were the
same people. I saw, the same girls I saw every
weekend mm hmm. And there was something about that, the
(11:29):
consistency and the kind of there was a growth I
think that happened over time with those at the time girls,
and I felt safe in it. I also didn't have
I came from a family where both parents essentially were
only children. I say that my father was an only child.
My mother had a half sibling in South Africa and
(11:54):
two other sister like women who were in London. So
I grew up in Los Angeles and there were not
a lot of people in our house and it was
just me and my sister. So there was something about
the singular friend the one at one person. Did that
continue as you started to then become a teenager and
(12:19):
move out into a broader social thing. Did it was
always the one person? And then and even when I
started having relationships and my relationships because I'm gay, we're
with women. The one friend, the girlfriend who is not
who I was not romantic with, that still was always
(12:40):
a that was always incredibly important to me. And those
relationships have evolved over time. But I am, to a fault,
almost incredibly loyal. I just like once you have me
as a friend, once you sweet bond and we connect
(13:01):
and we trust each other, like you have to beat
me off with stick, like I don't. You have to
do so many things for me to really like understand, like, oh,
this isn't a safe space for me anymore. Like I
would try and broker that relationship and negotiate it and
work on it and do anything I could too to
make it work or to maintain it. I'm kind of
(13:22):
a one person friend, and I obviously have more than
one friend. That's hard to believe you're not my only friend.
But well, as you know, we were going to Originally,
in the original conception of just talking about good friends,
we were going to include in this conversation our bestie,
(13:45):
our delicious good friend, Patty Rock and Wagner, who was
called away at the last minute. And so what we
said to Patty is don't worry about it. We'll just
talk about you. But what I was going to bring
up if Patty was here and we you and I
could discuss it, is Patty and Alex and Jamie became
(14:12):
friends because Jamie knew Alex, Jamie knew Patty. Patty and
Alex did not know each other, and the three of
us went away together on a girl's trip scheme and
they had never met. When we pulled up to Patty's
house and act on her door, I was like, Patty,
(14:32):
this is Alex, Alex, this is Patty. And what happened
on that trip has born now not only a absolute
bestie triumvirate with the three of us, but our spouses.
And although we've never said it out loud, and I'm
(14:56):
certainly not putting you on the spot, um, and Patty
not here so we can talk about her. I am
not a swinger, Um, none of us are swingers. And
yet well hang on a minute, okay, And yet I
was thinking about it. I actually think we could all
(15:17):
pair off with each other spouses in different connections and
it would work. Like I there are six of us,
and somehow our little bestie group really works and it's
created and become and absolutely essential friend group part of
(15:43):
my life for sure. And I know yours and I
know Patties, And what do you think? That was such
a brave moment to go away with a new friend
who you didn't know, that you had never met. See,
this is what's interesting to me. The way I see
(16:05):
it is I see the courage as you as yours
because for me it was it was fun. I trusted you.
Of course this person is going to be There's no
way I'm not going to like this person. I didn't
realize that I would love her as much as I
do and that she would become as important to me
as she has. But there's something for me, and I
(16:27):
think about this all the time that there is And
this comes back to gifting and giving and generosity. You
are truly one of the most generous people I know.
And not just I'm gonna get you this, I'm gonna
do this. You You are incredibly thoughtful and you give
(16:49):
and to bring two of your close friends together could
potentially signal loss, like oh, maybe they're going to each
other more, or maybe they're going to become friends, or
maybe I'm going to lose something or I won't get
as much. And it felt like there was never that
consideration for you, that it was just please, if you
(17:12):
two love each other, it's only better for me that
there's there's always been this incredibly You've come from such
a generous place of sharing and bringing people together, and
it's had such an impact on my life, on Jody's life,
and all of our lives together and to your point
of like a whole swing, Like, but it's really a
(17:35):
big deal that I love your husband. I love him.
It's like to have to be such close friends with
you and not just like Okay, I love her and
I'm kind of putting up with the person she's with.
That's what I mean. It's it's amazing. I love Hans
Patty's husband, I love you know, and Jody. I mean,
it's like we all we all really really appreciate each other,
(17:58):
and we're all very different and where the spouses that
didn't know each other going in have become as important.
And I'm sure my listener can really relate to that,
and I hope it gives the listener permission to really
expand your circle because certainly, and it's human nature, we
(18:22):
don't know. Of course, there are couples of my friends
that aren't a good match with me and Chris. They're
just not a good match. And that doesn't mean I
can't have that good, strong, powerful friendship with the most
of the time the woman in the relationship. But it's
(18:45):
we're not going to travel together. We probably won't even
have dinner together because the men aren't going to mix well,
and what's the point of doing that. But when you
make something a relationship the way we did, it was
a Valentine's Day weekend and we just took off and
went up to the mountains and had this girl's trip.
(19:08):
That bond that occurred on that trip has now created
trips around the world. And what you just said, which
is lovely thank you, has occurred. You know, and Patty
are actually very close friends, and there are aspects of
your guy's relationship that I am not a part of.
(19:31):
I don't feel jealousy, but I do think the ability
for the three of us with sort of disparate backgrounds
Patty was raised in South America, is of Korean descent,
also lived in Los Angeles. You know you and I
a I'm way older, um, but we just didn't. None
(19:52):
of us knew each other. It was a sort of
an interesting threesome to become friends and to become as
powerful of friends as we have become. Don't I'm a
good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend
after this quick break, so stick around. Don't already I'm
(20:18):
a good friend? Don friend? What do you I mean? Obviously,
as this podcast has now, I've sort of been exposing
words that go along with friendship. It's so empathy is
(20:38):
obviously a big thing, and I think empathy was the
beacon I mean from the beginning and fun well well
empathy with us, Yeah, but then with the Patty Patty
brought in, there was a lot of fun with Patty.
There was we did just again for the uninitiated listener
who was not on the trip. There was a warning
(21:01):
where Alexandra and I, who both claimed to be music
aficionados and you know fairly oh kurant with the latest
and the greatest, We did a little DJ sesh where
we were trading off music and Patty loves music. Patty
(21:25):
Patty is the life of the party. Patty Rock and
Wagner is the life of the party. And when we
were in my speakers were really good and we had
a intense sort of dance off. I believe someone maybe
in this podcast, maybe even somebody I'm speaking to, like really,
(21:46):
maybe right now, did some weird stairway thing where you
were going down maybe did a fake a fake stair
around going downstairs. I'm going upstairs, and this is some
form of a dance, and a really embarrassing one. It happened.
It did happen. It's not on tape, but it happened. Yeah,
I can attest. But even the beacon, you know, telepathy
(22:10):
with a friend, that idea that you we know. And
I have so many examples of times where and we're
not daily talkers or sometimes even weekly talkers, were not
those people like saying like what did you have for dinner? Friends?
(22:30):
You know? But the phone will ring and I'll pick
it up and it'll be you, and you will say
how are you doing? And I probably will start sobbing
because I needed. I mean, it happened a week ago,
where just the sound of your voice and your genuine interest.
(22:56):
How are you doing? How's it going this life that
we're all trying to live with grace and dignity and humor,
And how do you know? What is it about you
that you have that telepathy? M hmm, so interesting. I
(23:20):
haven't thought about it in those terms. And I think
this comes down to me. It comes down to friendship
and what's important to me and in a friend No,
it's not just that I can be myself, but that
I'm willing to that I'm willing and the person I'm
engaging with my friend is willing to be relational, meaning
(23:43):
they're able to connect with me where they are. They're
not going to bypass two Oh I'm great, everything's great,
and I'm doing or that they're going to connect to
the moment. They're gonna be able to connect to themselves
and they know themselves well enough. You know yourself well enough.
You've done a lot of work, You've done a lot
(24:04):
of deep dives, You've done a lifetime of searching and
researching and communicating and being and loving, and that you
are you know yourself well enough that I know that
I can say to you, how are you? And it's
just an invitation for us to connect. Now we don't.
(24:25):
We're busy people. Sometimes it's I'm desperate to talk to you,
but I can't right now. But there's an honesty to
it that I thrive on because life is tough and
it's incredible and it's joyful and difficult and confronting and
(24:50):
marvelous and there's so many things, and I go through
the highs and lows on a daily basis. I need
to commune with someone who who was able to meet
me where I am and isn't afraid of it. And
from day one with you, Jamie, you have been able
(25:10):
to go there. They're being wherever it is we are
right now, and I don't I don't know if that
makes sense, but that that the I know it makes
sense to you, but I'm I don't know your listener,
So I'm just I'm hoping that I'm communicating. But it's
it's a it's a presence. It's just knowing who you are,
being where you are, and then connecting with a person
(25:32):
in front of you in a way where you're actually curious.
You're curious and you want to know the truth. You're
not just looking for some answer that will feed your
own story. Yeah, well it is curiosity. I think curiosity
about a friend is that isn't obsessive. It isn't like
(25:54):
a vampire where I am trying to suck your g
out of you to keep myself alive and stable and
still um. But that your curiosity. And by the way,
you are a challenging friend. You are not just for
(26:18):
the listeners. Alex is a challenging friend. She will challenge you,
and I don't mean in a big like cross examination
in a murder trial way. She will question, maybe that's
the thing you are. Probably out of all of my
(26:42):
closest friends, you're the one to examine something. I'm assuming
you know that about yourself. Yeah, I do. I see
it as advocating. It's I see it as advocating for you,
my friend, but also advocating for myself. There aren't many
times where I feel like you're not so I feel
(27:03):
like you're able. We have a shorthand so, but if
I feel like I'm talking to a friend and they're
not connected or they're not paying attention to something that
feels really important, I do want to point it out.
Sometimes I ask sometimes rather than let me tell you
what's going on with you versus I'm just wondering if
(27:23):
you're open for feedback or I'm seeing something here and
I don't know if you're interested in hearing what I
have to say about it. Because some some people not
really my close friends, but some people are. They just
they all say a friend is a witness. I'm not
interested in just being a witness. I'm interested in a
(27:46):
back and forth, you know, because if you're just witnessing
me and I'm offline, then that's not going to serve
either one of us. But if you're able to stop
me and say, can I just stop you for a
second that thing that you just said, we repeat that,
or I'm noticing this, or you remember when thissed, then
(28:07):
you're more than a witness. You are someone who's actually
kind of safeguarding our space, my space with myself and
our space together and helping me well. One is active,
one is passive. I mean being a witness, being just
a witness to somebody is a passive action. It's not integral,
(28:31):
it doesn't connect up, it's it's distant, it's it's respectful.
I'm seeing you, I'm here, and I do think there's
a bearing witness to an aspect of all of our friendships.
But you know, I interviewed and I don't know what
order any of these are going to be in, so
(28:53):
I may reference something and people will be like, wait, who,
I didn't hear that one. I interviewed Ruthie pont fion
Um and I talked about the first time she was spectacular,
and I was talking about the first time when I
hired her as a missus, and I think I smoked
(29:14):
some pot or something just kind of relax and no
doubt sort of passed out or was definitely just sort
of drooling, you know, and that I she kind of
woke me up. And of course my listener is gonna
know my terrible Ruthie accent, So please don't I respect her.
(29:36):
She's from Brazil, Ruthie accent, I know, but I just
I have to be soak. We have to qualify everything
so carefully. I'm not you know, this is not it's important.
It's it's important, but I have to qualify it. She
and I didn't say this to her when when we
did the interview, but like I woke up and she
was sort of straddling me, and she goes, you know, James,
(30:00):
you know I'm not here to you. You know, I'm
you know you're lying here like doom. You know I'm
here to partner with you in the massage you. It's
a partnership. You have to breathe in I ask you
to breathe, and the work we do is together. I
(30:22):
am not doing you. And I remember that moment so
vividly where I understood and now of course understand very
well what she was talking about. It has to be
a living, breathing relationship. It has to be. Hey, I'd
(30:42):
like to bring this up. You've been saying this four
times now, and it's I need to ask if you
were open to hearing what I'm hearing you say, because
you're saying it over and over again. I don't think
that's what you really You're mean. And in order to
do that, there's a base level of trust with somebody,
(31:03):
because you may be pointing out something and have pointed
out things to me that are not embarrassing, but they are.
They are the type of thing that you go, oh, oh,
m hm, oh, I didn't realize that. And you have
to have enough strength inside you to hear it and
(31:25):
willingness you know that somehow it rings true, because if
it doesn't, there's the it's it's worth it too, So
that's not how I see it. If there's something I
don't already, I know I'll get. If I'm a good friend,
we'll be right back with more good friend after this
quick break. Don't get good friend. It's funny, you know.
(31:55):
Obviously people have said, well, I have a best friend.
I don't have a best friend. I have a crew,
I have this, I have this, and um, I was joking,
you know, Suzanne and I have a funny name for
each other and other friends. Melanie and I have a
funny name for each other, and our name is Besties.
(32:16):
And but it's it's got an S on it, and
it involves the six of us, the three couples, the
three sets of spouses. We're all married, You and Jody,
Patty and Hans and Chris and me. And it's almost childlike.
It is childlike. It is so childlike that it's so
(32:39):
delightful to be able to be childlike. My husband is
seventy three years old. Hans just turned sixty. I'm sixty two.
You know, you and Patty are fifty or fifty one whatever.
I don't even know how old. How old Jodi jo?
Jody told me I was fifty two yesterday, and I said,
(32:59):
I am. She said, here, you're fifty two. You're gonna
be fifty three. I said no. We went back and forth,
and then I was able to retrieve my year. I am,
in fact that good. Well, you don't look a day
over fifty two. I mean, my god, that's like so old.
But there's something so delightful about good friends being children together.
(33:24):
We played games. We had a party the other day,
fully masked and socially distanced, but it was a birthday
of somebody and we were outside and we had it
was my birthday, and Patty had created you guys had
all created this gaming area where we had dart guns
and what was that other thing there was? There was
(33:48):
Patty got these reindeer antlers that you blew up and
these plastic rings, and so each member of each married
couple would one would be wearing the antlers and the
other would be tossing the rings. We were outdoors six
ft apart, and whoever got the most amount of rings
one I'm going to say Jody and I one, and
(34:09):
then Patty. Afterwards, she did a recall because she felt
that our antlers were not blown up enough. She called
a deflate gate on us and said the antlers weren't
brought up enough so they were able to fall. So
the rings were it was easier for us to attach them,
and for me, I think it was a bit of
(34:30):
sore loser. Well, she's very competitive, very competitive. We actually
you because you are the resident photographer. Hilarious because I
actually am a photographer. Jamie for you listening out there
is the most extraordinary photographer. So Jamie was photographing the
whole thing, and in fact, when we reviewed the photos,
our antlers were a little deflated. They are a little deflated. Well,
(34:53):
before I lose you, before I leave our conversation, I
do want to talk just about the strength of character
of all of us. Because the other thing that I
think is unique in our good friendship, along with Patties
and Hans is, you know, along with the inclusion of
(35:15):
Patty in our besties group, is the level of support
for our all of our communal expansions. All of us
are trying to manifest our destinies, are trying to take
advantage of our creativities, our minds. You've gone back to school, Jody,
(35:38):
went back to school. Patty has forged an entire new
path of social justice. Hans is expanding his world and
his bakery business. Christopher is expanding in his own way
of hititation to the perfection of fly time and the
(36:00):
pursuits that he deep dives. And I am trying to
expand and manifest so that we all are cheering each
other on. When Patty was involved in something, it was
as if she had won the Oscar, Like in that moment,
(36:22):
we couldn't have been prouder. The other day, I was
at the Golden Globes and presented it to my bestie,
I say it on that television. That was actually really
funny because Jody, as you know, had no expectation, zero
expectation of winning. And so our plan for that evening
(36:43):
was we'll just go really quickly in front of the
zoom thing for a second, and then we're gonna have
dinner downstairs, like we It was just gonna be a second.
And you opened the envelope and you said my bestie,
and Jody and I both thought at the same time,
why would she call Olivia coleman Or or Glen Close?
Why would why would she use that word for these
(37:03):
other women like that was the first thought we had.
We were so confused. We still didn't think that Jody
had actually wanted We just thought that you were using
that were our word with other people. But my point
is simply there's a level of support and respect for
(37:26):
our processes, individual unique, individual processes, and yet as a
good friend group, my victories are your victories. Jody's victory
was our victories. Hans's new business was our new business.
(37:51):
Your expansion. You know, my gift from Alexandra were for
my birthday or the holiday this year. I said, you
are in school. I never went to school, I never
had that sort of education. Show me what you're learning,
and you graced me with some examples of some of
(38:11):
the people you read about ideas, and then we have
been able to have these conversations around it. That level
of expansion is unlike I have in other friend groups.
(38:32):
And it's it's it makes me cry because that's all
I've ever wanted. Mm hmm, yeah, it really is. Uh,
it's it really is an amazing gift. And I feel
like when you talk about us witnessing our our individual
(38:55):
and collective acrossness and processes is and it's to do
it together, and even you know was a bearer of
a year and we all had to go deep. We
all had to go really deep. We needed to face
things that we hadn't faced before. And I think that
(39:17):
for sure, for me, the decision in Lockdown to go
back my all of my shows were canceled and to
go back to school felt really important. And I loved
that you said because you were going through your own
process in it, say I want to know what you're
reading because the school that I've been going to dedicated
to social justice, and my interest was, let's let's go
(39:39):
and re learn what is our history, what is our experience,
what is what is happening? And how can we understand
things in a different way and to be able to
share that together say this, this is These are the
things that we didn't get when we were in school,
and now we get them now when we get to
share them. Pretty powerful stuff. I think your powerful stuff,
(40:01):
powerful stuff, your powerful stuff. And Patty is powerful stuff
even though she's not here, and we can dis her
about how she looks good in her clothes, because this woman,
this Patty woman can absolutely she can put together an outfit.
That woman she can put together. And by the way,
(40:22):
we both have traveled with her and it's just painful.
It's absolutely painful to travel with her because out of
that suitcase comes such creative, fabulous stuff. It's crazy anyway,
Alex Hetrison, I love you. I'm so grateful that you're
(40:44):
my good friend, that you are here on this podcast,
that people are able, my listener was able to listen
to you and understand how it feels to be in
your orbit and in your in your focus and in
your gaze. And I love that you invited me. Thank you,
You're welcome, very happy to have had you. And to
(41:06):
my listener, if you're still there, God bless you, stay
safe and we'll hook up whatever that means, because I
say hook up because I'm sixty two and I'm not
going to change my ways, So we'll hook up whenever
that is another time. And thanks for listening. And I
love you, Alex, I love you, Jamie. Good Friend is
(41:39):
produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of My
Heart Radio. Our theme song good Friend is written, produced,
and performed by Emily King Native I'm a friend. It
(42:00):
is something I don't already ad from a good Friend.
For more podcasts, for my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
your favorite shows.
If something don't already, I know I'll get it. I'm
a good friend. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and
you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you
by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We
(00:22):
talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about
what it really means to be a good friend. And
I have conversations with some of my best friends, some
people I've never met, and sort of everything in between.
So I hope by the end of it that you
(00:44):
have a really good sense of what friendship means to
me and the people that I consider friends. And I
hope you can take those same ideas into your own
friendship groups. And I hope you enjoy it. I don't already.
And the lot of a good friend. So for my
(01:10):
uninitiated listener, um, I believe Alexander, we have at least
one here on the Good Friend Podcast. My guest is
my friend Alexandra Hettrison, who I have the great privilege
to call a good friend, A good earned, good hard
(01:32):
friendship earned. Wouldn't you say that? Yeah? Yeah, you know,
good friends, you earn them. I don't think good friends happen.
I think you can have friends. But to have a
good friend, I think you earned that badge of goodness.
I would agree with that. I know that it's it's
(01:54):
something that happens over time. Yeah, how to what would
be the how would you earn? It's like in the
Girl Scouts? How would you earn your badge? Your good
friend badge? What would you describe the qualities? Well, it's
interesting just the word arn, earn and you said the
good girl badge. There's something about that. This This can
(02:17):
go two ways because I think that you and I
are both trained. We grew up in a way where
you had to earn something, and this idea of I
need to earn something to be the good girl, to
be the good friend, to get that confirmation from outside
(02:40):
of myself that I am worthy of whatever it is
that I'm seeking. And so I would say as a
as a friend, that I have now earned the privilege myself,
just through my own growth and knowing myself, that I
(03:00):
know that I can just be myself and be with
someone who is also themselves, and together we get to
share ourselves. We get to share each other and we
don't actually have to do or get or or earn
or earn and still real trust, real relationship I think
(03:26):
takes um time. That's a story that unfolds over time. Yeah,
and I'm certainly not suggesting it's transactional on any level
except experientially transactional. Like I don't think I would have
a good friend that has not been in as I
like to refer to it, in certain circles that I frequent,
(03:48):
you know, my turn in the barrel. That when I've
been in the barrel of life, when I've just been
bounced around in the barrel of life, the people that
are there I emerge are my good friends. And that
isn't a transactional relationship. It's not based on materialism. It's
based on emotionalism. Right, And yet I just I wanted
(04:12):
to highlight the word earn for a minute because I know,
for me, at least, I have caught myself in the
act of magnificently wrapping something or going to tend stores
to find the perfect whatever. And I have, as I've
gotten older, had to question that motivation. I've had to
(04:34):
examine it a little bit and say, what what is
it that I'm doing and at what point is it enough?
And I get so much pleasure, as you know, out
of wrapping a gift or giving a gift. By the way,
you're an exquisite gift giver. It is part of your
essence is the ability to know someone, see an object
(04:58):
or something beautiful, whatever it is, figure out a way
to somehow present that to the person as a gesture
of friendship or a gift giving time. We all give
ourselves gifts. I mean, think about it. Everybody has a birthday.
Every year, there's you know, holiday gift giving. Uh that
(05:19):
if you're married or you have a significant person, there's
that anniversary. And if you end up having children, there
those I mean, it's it's every I mean, Hallmark has
made a you know, a life of a wealth life
out of the act of giving. But you have that
in a very powerful way. You have an artist's eye
(05:43):
and exquisite taste. Thank you, Jamie, It's true. That's really nice.
We we became friends. It's so interesting because we became
friends from a distance in a way, and it was
from a distance when we connected. Um we Alexander and I.
(06:07):
Without getting any personal story in here, there was a
moment where Alexandra was away out of the state where
I live and where we both live, and we had
a conversation. It was our first real conversation, and we
(06:27):
talked about my stepfather who was survived in avalanche and
for my listener. And by the way, Alexandra, we have
a listener. I'm sure I have a listener, and we
speak to my listener just because I haven't named them
because then that would be weird, but they know who
(06:47):
they are, my listener. So to my uninitiated listener, my stepfather,
Bob Brandt, was helicopter skiing in the bug A Booze
in Canada with a group of friends. And when you
helicopter ski, everybody wears a censor, an avalanche beacon that
(07:08):
everybody turns to send when they descend down the the peace,
as the Europeans would say, the run and then God forbid,
an avalanche occurs and they are enveloped by the avalanche.
Everyone who has survived it, who are outside of the
(07:29):
avalanche turned their beacon to receive, and then the sender's
beacon registers and that's how you locate people. And when
my stepfather was in this accident, someone in the adrenaline
moment forgot to turn their's and so for five minutes
(07:55):
or ten minutes the rescue party was following a beacon
of somebody not under the snow, and when they realized
that moment and they turned that person's beacon to receive,
they were able to find my dad. But he was
minutes from death. You know, his hands were very close
(08:15):
to his face and he had made his peace that
he was gonna die. And Alexander and my first conversation
was about beacons, sending out a beacon to each other.
That we made a pact, I believe, yeah, and we
said in this brand new friendship, brand new friendship, I
(08:39):
think we discussed the idea that we would be each
other's beacon and that if we were in trouble, we
would send a text with a beacon and we would
know what that meant, a little red flashing light or
whatever it was. I think it was a plus sign
that that the we sort of did a series of
plus signs, because I think at that year phones were
not that fancy. We didn't have emojis, and we didn't
(09:01):
have things, So it was just a repeated plus sign
that was basically saying, beacon on, right, beacon on. And
I really think our friendship, our good friendship, began then
we were friends. We we knew each other, but we
didn't know each other, and that was the beginning of
(09:21):
the good friendship. And the beacon on was a shorthand
for saying, I am open to receive you wherever you are,
however you are, whatever is going on with you. I
am here in the same way that the person the
other person says beacon on. And it's a way of
(09:43):
speaking a language to each other that we didn't even
know we shared yet. And I remember that so well.
I'm glad you remember it too. I do remember it
when you were little. Let's just go back from you know,
obviously it's a show called Good friend People have talked
(10:04):
about all aspects of friendship from when they were little
family who become you know, obviously friends. Just talk to
me a little bit about your early life and friendships
and how how did you make them. Were you in
a crew, were you a one on you know, explain
a little more about like what your that friend terrain
(10:26):
was within you mm hmm. I was always a one
on one person. I think that even at an early age,
I liked somewhat of a deep dive, meaning the intimacy
of a one on one the safety of that, and
(10:46):
I had good friends from an early age. I remember
I had a friend I had in preschool and as
far as I know, it was my only friend. And
then later I made a couple of friends, maybe when
I was round ten or twelve, and they stayed my
friends through high school. I still I still know these women,
(11:06):
and of course our life lives changed, and but I
was never part of a group. I think that I
was friends with lots of people, but my good friends
were I had two or three and they were the
same people. I saw, the same girls I saw every
weekend mm hmm. And there was something about that, the
(11:29):
consistency and the kind of there was a growth I
think that happened over time with those at the time girls,
and I felt safe in it. I also didn't have
I came from a family where both parents essentially were
only children. I say that my father was an only child.
My mother had a half sibling in South Africa and
(11:54):
two other sister like women who were in London. So
I grew up in Los Angeles and there were not
a lot of people in our house and it was
just me and my sister. So there was something about
the singular friend the one at one person. Did that
continue as you started to then become a teenager and
(12:19):
move out into a broader social thing. Did it was
always the one person? And then and even when I
started having relationships and my relationships because I'm gay, we're
with women. The one friend, the girlfriend who is not
who I was not romantic with, that still was always
(12:40):
a that was always incredibly important to me. And those
relationships have evolved over time. But I am, to a fault,
almost incredibly loyal. I just like once you have me
as a friend, once you sweet bond and we connect
(13:01):
and we trust each other, like you have to beat
me off with stick, like I don't. You have to
do so many things for me to really like understand, like, oh,
this isn't a safe space for me anymore. Like I
would try and broker that relationship and negotiate it and
work on it and do anything I could too to
make it work or to maintain it. I'm kind of
(13:22):
a one person friend, and I obviously have more than
one friend. That's hard to believe you're not my only friend.
But well, as you know, we were going to Originally,
in the original conception of just talking about good friends,
we were going to include in this conversation our bestie,
(13:45):
our delicious good friend, Patty Rock and Wagner, who was
called away at the last minute. And so what we
said to Patty is don't worry about it. We'll just
talk about you. But what I was going to bring
up if Patty was here and we you and I
could discuss it, is Patty and Alex and Jamie became
(14:12):
friends because Jamie knew Alex, Jamie knew Patty. Patty and
Alex did not know each other, and the three of
us went away together on a girl's trip scheme and
they had never met. When we pulled up to Patty's
house and act on her door, I was like, Patty,
(14:32):
this is Alex, Alex, this is Patty. And what happened
on that trip has born now not only a absolute
bestie triumvirate with the three of us, but our spouses.
And although we've never said it out loud, and I'm
(14:56):
certainly not putting you on the spot, um, and Patty
not here so we can talk about her. I am
not a swinger, Um, none of us are swingers. And
yet well hang on a minute, okay, And yet I
was thinking about it. I actually think we could all
(15:17):
pair off with each other spouses in different connections and
it would work. Like I there are six of us,
and somehow our little bestie group really works and it's
created and become and absolutely essential friend group part of
(15:43):
my life for sure. And I know yours and I
know Patties, And what do you think? That was such
a brave moment to go away with a new friend
who you didn't know, that you had never met. See,
this is what's interesting to me. The way I see
(16:05):
it is I see the courage as you as yours
because for me it was it was fun. I trusted you.
Of course this person is going to be There's no
way I'm not going to like this person. I didn't
realize that I would love her as much as I
do and that she would become as important to me
as she has. But there's something for me, and I
(16:27):
think about this all the time that there is And
this comes back to gifting and giving and generosity. You
are truly one of the most generous people I know.
And not just I'm gonna get you this, I'm gonna
do this. You You are incredibly thoughtful and you give
(16:49):
and to bring two of your close friends together could
potentially signal loss, like oh, maybe they're going to each
other more, or maybe they're going to become friends, or
maybe I'm going to lose something or I won't get
as much. And it felt like there was never that
consideration for you, that it was just please, if you
(17:12):
two love each other, it's only better for me that
there's there's always been this incredibly You've come from such
a generous place of sharing and bringing people together, and
it's had such an impact on my life, on Jody's life,
and all of our lives together and to your point
of like a whole swing, Like, but it's really a
(17:35):
big deal that I love your husband. I love him.
It's like to have to be such close friends with
you and not just like Okay, I love her and
I'm kind of putting up with the person she's with.
That's what I mean. It's it's amazing. I love Hans
Patty's husband, I love you know, and Jody. I mean,
it's like we all we all really really appreciate each other,
(17:58):
and we're all very different and where the spouses that
didn't know each other going in have become as important.
And I'm sure my listener can really relate to that,
and I hope it gives the listener permission to really
expand your circle because certainly, and it's human nature, we
(18:22):
don't know. Of course, there are couples of my friends
that aren't a good match with me and Chris. They're
just not a good match. And that doesn't mean I
can't have that good, strong, powerful friendship with the most
of the time the woman in the relationship. But it's
(18:45):
we're not going to travel together. We probably won't even
have dinner together because the men aren't going to mix well,
and what's the point of doing that. But when you
make something a relationship the way we did, it was
a Valentine's Day weekend and we just took off and
went up to the mountains and had this girl's trip.
(19:08):
That bond that occurred on that trip has now created
trips around the world. And what you just said, which
is lovely thank you, has occurred. You know, and Patty
are actually very close friends, and there are aspects of
your guy's relationship that I am not a part of.
(19:31):
I don't feel jealousy, but I do think the ability
for the three of us with sort of disparate backgrounds
Patty was raised in South America, is of Korean descent,
also lived in Los Angeles. You know you and I
a I'm way older, um, but we just didn't. None
(19:52):
of us knew each other. It was a sort of
an interesting threesome to become friends and to become as
powerful of friends as we have become. Don't I'm a
good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend
after this quick break, so stick around. Don't already I'm
(20:18):
a good friend? Don friend? What do you I mean? Obviously,
as this podcast has now, I've sort of been exposing
words that go along with friendship. It's so empathy is
(20:38):
obviously a big thing, and I think empathy was the
beacon I mean from the beginning and fun well well
empathy with us, Yeah, but then with the Patty Patty
brought in, there was a lot of fun with Patty.
There was we did just again for the uninitiated listener
who was not on the trip. There was a warning
(21:01):
where Alexandra and I, who both claimed to be music
aficionados and you know fairly oh kurant with the latest
and the greatest, We did a little DJ sesh where
we were trading off music and Patty loves music. Patty
(21:25):
Patty is the life of the party. Patty Rock and
Wagner is the life of the party. And when we
were in my speakers were really good and we had
a intense sort of dance off. I believe someone maybe
in this podcast, maybe even somebody I'm speaking to, like really,
(21:46):
maybe right now, did some weird stairway thing where you
were going down maybe did a fake a fake stair
around going downstairs. I'm going upstairs, and this is some
form of a dance, and a really embarrassing one. It happened.
It did happen. It's not on tape, but it happened. Yeah,
I can attest. But even the beacon, you know, telepathy
(22:10):
with a friend, that idea that you we know. And
I have so many examples of times where and we're
not daily talkers or sometimes even weekly talkers, were not
those people like saying like what did you have for dinner? Friends?
(22:30):
You know? But the phone will ring and I'll pick
it up and it'll be you, and you will say
how are you doing? And I probably will start sobbing
because I needed. I mean, it happened a week ago,
where just the sound of your voice and your genuine interest.
(22:56):
How are you doing? How's it going this life that
we're all trying to live with grace and dignity and humor,
And how do you know? What is it about you
that you have that telepathy? M hmm, so interesting. I
(23:20):
haven't thought about it in those terms. And I think
this comes down to me. It comes down to friendship
and what's important to me and in a friend No,
it's not just that I can be myself, but that
I'm willing to that I'm willing and the person I'm
engaging with my friend is willing to be relational, meaning
(23:43):
they're able to connect with me where they are. They're
not going to bypass two Oh I'm great, everything's great,
and I'm doing or that they're going to connect to
the moment. They're gonna be able to connect to themselves
and they know themselves well enough. You know yourself well enough.
You've done a lot of work, You've done a lot
(24:04):
of deep dives, You've done a lifetime of searching and
researching and communicating and being and loving, and that you
are you know yourself well enough that I know that
I can say to you, how are you? And it's
just an invitation for us to connect. Now we don't.
(24:25):
We're busy people. Sometimes it's I'm desperate to talk to you,
but I can't right now. But there's an honesty to
it that I thrive on because life is tough and
it's incredible and it's joyful and difficult and confronting and
(24:50):
marvelous and there's so many things, and I go through
the highs and lows on a daily basis. I need
to commune with someone who who was able to meet
me where I am and isn't afraid of it. And
from day one with you, Jamie, you have been able
(25:10):
to go there. They're being wherever it is we are
right now, and I don't I don't know if that
makes sense, but that that the I know it makes
sense to you, but I'm I don't know your listener,
So I'm just I'm hoping that I'm communicating. But it's
it's a it's a presence. It's just knowing who you are,
being where you are, and then connecting with a person
(25:32):
in front of you in a way where you're actually curious.
You're curious and you want to know the truth. You're
not just looking for some answer that will feed your
own story. Yeah, well it is curiosity. I think curiosity
about a friend is that isn't obsessive. It isn't like
(25:54):
a vampire where I am trying to suck your g
out of you to keep myself alive and stable and
still um. But that your curiosity. And by the way,
you are a challenging friend. You are not just for
(26:18):
the listeners. Alex is a challenging friend. She will challenge you,
and I don't mean in a big like cross examination
in a murder trial way. She will question, maybe that's
the thing you are. Probably out of all of my
(26:42):
closest friends, you're the one to examine something. I'm assuming
you know that about yourself. Yeah, I do. I see
it as advocating. It's I see it as advocating for you,
my friend, but also advocating for myself. There aren't many
times where I feel like you're not so I feel
(27:03):
like you're able. We have a shorthand so, but if
I feel like I'm talking to a friend and they're
not connected or they're not paying attention to something that
feels really important, I do want to point it out.
Sometimes I ask sometimes rather than let me tell you
what's going on with you versus I'm just wondering if
(27:23):
you're open for feedback or I'm seeing something here and
I don't know if you're interested in hearing what I
have to say about it. Because some some people not
really my close friends, but some people are. They just
they all say a friend is a witness. I'm not
interested in just being a witness. I'm interested in a
(27:46):
back and forth, you know, because if you're just witnessing
me and I'm offline, then that's not going to serve
either one of us. But if you're able to stop
me and say, can I just stop you for a
second that thing that you just said, we repeat that,
or I'm noticing this, or you remember when thissed, then
(28:07):
you're more than a witness. You are someone who's actually
kind of safeguarding our space, my space with myself and
our space together and helping me well. One is active,
one is passive. I mean being a witness, being just
a witness to somebody is a passive action. It's not integral,
(28:31):
it doesn't connect up, it's it's distant, it's it's respectful.
I'm seeing you, I'm here, and I do think there's
a bearing witness to an aspect of all of our friendships.
But you know, I interviewed and I don't know what
order any of these are going to be in, so
(28:53):
I may reference something and people will be like, wait, who,
I didn't hear that one. I interviewed Ruthie pont fion
Um and I talked about the first time she was spectacular,
and I was talking about the first time when I
hired her as a missus, and I think I smoked
(29:14):
some pot or something just kind of relax and no
doubt sort of passed out or was definitely just sort
of drooling, you know, and that I she kind of
woke me up. And of course my listener is gonna
know my terrible Ruthie accent, So please don't I respect her.
(29:36):
She's from Brazil, Ruthie accent, I know, but I just
I have to be soak. We have to qualify everything
so carefully. I'm not you know, this is not it's important.
It's it's important, but I have to qualify it. She
and I didn't say this to her when when we
did the interview, but like I woke up and she
was sort of straddling me, and she goes, you know, James,
(30:00):
you know I'm not here to you. You know, I'm
you know you're lying here like doom. You know I'm
here to partner with you in the massage you. It's
a partnership. You have to breathe in I ask you
to breathe, and the work we do is together. I
(30:22):
am not doing you. And I remember that moment so
vividly where I understood and now of course understand very
well what she was talking about. It has to be
a living, breathing relationship. It has to be. Hey, I'd
(30:42):
like to bring this up. You've been saying this four
times now, and it's I need to ask if you
were open to hearing what I'm hearing you say, because
you're saying it over and over again. I don't think
that's what you really You're mean. And in order to
do that, there's a base level of trust with somebody,
(31:03):
because you may be pointing out something and have pointed
out things to me that are not embarrassing, but they are.
They are the type of thing that you go, oh, oh,
m hm, oh, I didn't realize that. And you have
to have enough strength inside you to hear it and
(31:25):
willingness you know that somehow it rings true, because if
it doesn't, there's the it's it's worth it too, So
that's not how I see it. If there's something I
don't already, I know I'll get. If I'm a good friend,
we'll be right back with more good friend after this
quick break. Don't get good friend. It's funny, you know.
(31:55):
Obviously people have said, well, I have a best friend.
I don't have a best friend. I have a crew,
I have this, I have this, and um, I was joking,
you know, Suzanne and I have a funny name for
each other and other friends. Melanie and I have a
funny name for each other, and our name is Besties.
(32:16):
And but it's it's got an S on it, and
it involves the six of us, the three couples, the
three sets of spouses. We're all married, You and Jody,
Patty and Hans and Chris and me. And it's almost childlike.
It is childlike. It is so childlike that it's so
(32:39):
delightful to be able to be childlike. My husband is
seventy three years old. Hans just turned sixty. I'm sixty two.
You know, you and Patty are fifty or fifty one whatever.
I don't even know how old. How old Jodi jo?
Jody told me I was fifty two yesterday, and I said,
(32:59):
I am. She said, here, you're fifty two. You're gonna
be fifty three. I said no. We went back and forth,
and then I was able to retrieve my year. I am,
in fact that good. Well, you don't look a day
over fifty two. I mean, my god, that's like so old.
But there's something so delightful about good friends being children together.
(33:24):
We played games. We had a party the other day,
fully masked and socially distanced, but it was a birthday
of somebody and we were outside and we had it
was my birthday, and Patty had created you guys had
all created this gaming area where we had dart guns
and what was that other thing there was? There was
(33:48):
Patty got these reindeer antlers that you blew up and
these plastic rings, and so each member of each married
couple would one would be wearing the antlers and the
other would be tossing the rings. We were outdoors six
ft apart, and whoever got the most amount of rings
one I'm going to say Jody and I one, and
(34:09):
then Patty. Afterwards, she did a recall because she felt
that our antlers were not blown up enough. She called
a deflate gate on us and said the antlers weren't
brought up enough so they were able to fall. So
the rings were it was easier for us to attach them,
and for me, I think it was a bit of
(34:30):
sore loser. Well, she's very competitive, very competitive. We actually
you because you are the resident photographer. Hilarious because I
actually am a photographer. Jamie for you listening out there
is the most extraordinary photographer. So Jamie was photographing the
whole thing, and in fact, when we reviewed the photos,
our antlers were a little deflated. They are a little deflated. Well,
(34:53):
before I lose you, before I leave our conversation, I
do want to talk just about the strength of character
of all of us. Because the other thing that I
think is unique in our good friendship, along with Patties
and Hans is, you know, along with the inclusion of
(35:15):
Patty in our besties group, is the level of support
for our all of our communal expansions. All of us
are trying to manifest our destinies, are trying to take
advantage of our creativities, our minds. You've gone back to school, Jody,
(35:38):
went back to school. Patty has forged an entire new
path of social justice. Hans is expanding his world and
his bakery business. Christopher is expanding in his own way
of hititation to the perfection of fly time and the
(36:00):
pursuits that he deep dives. And I am trying to
expand and manifest so that we all are cheering each
other on. When Patty was involved in something, it was
as if she had won the Oscar, Like in that moment,
(36:22):
we couldn't have been prouder. The other day, I was
at the Golden Globes and presented it to my bestie,
I say it on that television. That was actually really
funny because Jody, as you know, had no expectation, zero
expectation of winning. And so our plan for that evening
(36:43):
was we'll just go really quickly in front of the
zoom thing for a second, and then we're gonna have
dinner downstairs, like we It was just gonna be a second.
And you opened the envelope and you said my bestie,
and Jody and I both thought at the same time,
why would she call Olivia coleman Or or Glen Close?
Why would why would she use that word for these
(37:03):
other women like that was the first thought we had.
We were so confused. We still didn't think that Jody
had actually wanted We just thought that you were using
that were our word with other people. But my point
is simply there's a level of support and respect for
(37:26):
our processes, individual unique, individual processes, and yet as a
good friend group, my victories are your victories. Jody's victory
was our victories. Hans's new business was our new business.
(37:51):
Your expansion. You know, my gift from Alexandra were for
my birthday or the holiday this year. I said, you
are in school. I never went to school, I never
had that sort of education. Show me what you're learning,
and you graced me with some examples of some of
(38:11):
the people you read about ideas, and then we have
been able to have these conversations around it. That level
of expansion is unlike I have in other friend groups.
(38:32):
And it's it's it makes me cry because that's all
I've ever wanted. Mm hmm, yeah, it really is. Uh,
it's it really is an amazing gift. And I feel
like when you talk about us witnessing our our individual
(38:55):
and collective acrossness and processes is and it's to do
it together, and even you know was a bearer of
a year and we all had to go deep. We
all had to go really deep. We needed to face
things that we hadn't faced before. And I think that
(39:17):
for sure, for me, the decision in Lockdown to go
back my all of my shows were canceled and to
go back to school felt really important. And I loved
that you said because you were going through your own
process in it, say I want to know what you're
reading because the school that I've been going to dedicated
to social justice, and my interest was, let's let's go
(39:39):
and re learn what is our history, what is our experience,
what is what is happening? And how can we understand
things in a different way and to be able to
share that together say this, this is These are the
things that we didn't get when we were in school,
and now we get them now when we get to
share them. Pretty powerful stuff. I think your powerful stuff,
(40:01):
powerful stuff, your powerful stuff. And Patty is powerful stuff
even though she's not here, and we can dis her
about how she looks good in her clothes, because this woman,
this Patty woman can absolutely she can put together an outfit.
That woman she can put together. And by the way,
(40:22):
we both have traveled with her and it's just painful.
It's absolutely painful to travel with her because out of
that suitcase comes such creative, fabulous stuff. It's crazy anyway,
Alex Hetrison, I love you. I'm so grateful that you're
(40:44):
my good friend, that you are here on this podcast,
that people are able, my listener was able to listen
to you and understand how it feels to be in
your orbit and in your in your focus and in
your gaze. And I love that you invited me. Thank you,
You're welcome, very happy to have had you. And to
(41:06):
my listener, if you're still there, God bless you, stay
safe and we'll hook up whatever that means, because I
say hook up because I'm sixty two and I'm not
going to change my ways, So we'll hook up whenever
that is another time. And thanks for listening. And I
love you, Alex, I love you, Jamie. Good Friend is
(41:39):
produced by Dylan Fagin and is a production of My
Heart Radio. Our theme song good Friend is written, produced,
and performed by Emily King Native I'm a friend. It
(42:00):
is something I don't already ad from a good Friend.
For more podcasts, for my heart Radio, visit the I
heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you listen to
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