May 26, 2022 • 59 mins
This week Jamie has a conversation with her dear friend Deborah Oppenheimer. They discuss Jamie's reputation for being very punctual, the importance of growing together as friends, and appreciating the value of former friendships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If there's something already I know, I'll get it from
a good friend. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and
you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you
by my Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We
(00:22):
talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about
what it really means to be a good friend. And
I have conversations with some of my best friends, some
people I've never met, and sort of everything in between.
So I hope by the end of it that you
(00:44):
have a really good sense of what friendship means to
me and the people that I consider friends. And I
hope you can take those same ideas into your own
friendship groups, and I hope you enjoy it. I don't
already a love and a good friends. This thing is
(01:07):
going in a ready babe. We are like, no, No,
that's how That's how we roll here at the Good
Friend Podcast. Is I that's my gotchaman for a minute?
Early of course? Oh wow? Was that a little friend snartness?
Not at one whit? So let's just ask that question
(01:28):
about timeliness because um my our guest our the community
of the Ears who listened to our Good Friend podcast,
um our guest today is deborrah Ann Oppenheimer, UM, a
very close friend of mine for a very long time.
But I guess the question is just first off, like
(01:51):
does that bother you that I'm super early? And be honest,
this is like the moment, like completely like tell the truth.
Know it doesn't bother me at all that you're super early.
It's just something you have to know about you that
if you say you're doing a dinner party at seven,
you're going to be there at six thirty. If we're
(02:13):
doing this podcast at one, it's not going to start
at one. It's going to start before one, and we
have to be ready before. But it's exactly one. Now.
I was going to say, according to that, but I
knew in planning with you that I should try earlier.
(02:35):
I wasn't quite as early as I would have liked
to have been. But you just know that about you. Okay,
But but isn't that friendship? Isn't that basically the whole
thing is like you know that about that person. So,
and what I would like to say about that is
that what I love about our friendship is that I
(02:55):
know you and you know me, and to know you means,
among many many many other things which I can disclose
or not. One has to know you're going, you're early,
you are punctual, and you're more than punctual. You're early,
(03:16):
And I don't have this. Why would anybody have a
problem with that? Well, I think some people do have
a problem with it, honestly. And I'm going to say
in my defense again since it is my podcast and
I controlled the universe. UM, I will say that I
don't believe if you call something for seven and I'm
(03:38):
there at six thirty, six thirty, I understand, is a
little early quarter to seven. Put it this way, I
will be in my car in front of your house
at six thirty, but I might not ring the doorbell
until sixty five, I think. I think fifteen minutes till showtime.
Most people have put their clothes on and already doing
(04:00):
the final lighting of the candles, which I usually offer
to help to do. Um. The minute you said to
know you is to love you is the way friendship works.
It makes that song. Isn't there a song to no
no no you? Is still yes to love love love,
And I do if but if you come early, and
(04:23):
if you get my seam right or double check how
my hair fulls or where if if my something is
on straight, then you would do that. So then great,
you're a helper when you show up early. Yes, I don't.
(04:44):
By the way, I'm not the type of person for
those of you who are listening who are going to
invite me now over, I'm going to get random invitations. Um.
I do show up with an intention to help my
hostess or host make make it a successful gathering. I
will grab food plates, I will pour almonds out of
(05:09):
the can into the beautiful bowl you brought back from
Africa and make it look like it's something beautiful. I
will certainly lean into that. And if somehow miraculously nothing
needs to be done, you don't need attention. You come early,
(05:29):
you're there, and you're not while I or whoever is
running around bustling trying to get ready. You're not needy
and demanding. So that's a really good let's start there that. See,
I knew we would find our our doorway into friendship
because I think that's a really important conversation. And I'm
(05:53):
sure our listeners um will be nodding at this moment
because they're our friends who take up a lot of
space and are super super needy um for whatever reason,
for whatever their psychological makeup is, and that's not been
(06:16):
our relationship. I feel like it's a really mutual showing up,
suiting up, showing up, helping, leaning into the help, versus
the pay attention to me, pay attention to me. But
I'm sure you have friends that are the other way
and bring charm and wonderfulness to that part of the friendship.
(06:42):
I think that's another thing about knowing you, which is
that you completely thoroughly come through if I need you.
But I don't think your threshold or mine for neediness.
That's not a quality we look for in a friend.
(07:04):
And and I think that there's a whole other complexity
to that, because I think we both do work on
ourselves and look inward, and that being needy is something
we have feelings about, and so we wouldn't eat. We
(07:25):
would have a conscience at a at a time where
we are needy and might need something from each other.
We have a perspective about that and a threshold for
that that we both tolerate and come through for and
then also place limits on. That sounds like the most
(07:47):
whole relationship I've ever heard described about friendship. Seriously, I
want to talk about an aspect of our friendship that
that is what I love about a friendship. If I
can take over here for a moment, how well, let
me just let people know what you do, because then
you'll understand why you just took over my podcast. Um
(08:12):
So UM. I met Deborah and Oppenheimer through my husband Christopher,
two friends of his became very very close friends of mine. UM.
Through that relationship through Chris as the portal one of
whom is debrah Ann Oppenheimer. And deb produces. So there
(08:33):
you understand now why she took over my podcast. She produces.
She's the boss um of a lot of people. She
does a lot of television, um and has done a
lot of television in the past. Um. And also and
we will way get into that in a minute. Also
on her own, under her own um Internal Drive made
(08:58):
took the story of her mother who was one of
the Kinder Transport children, one of the ten thousand Jewish
children allowed to leave Germany unaccompanied. Her mother who ended
up coming to America. Her story was after she died,
(09:20):
Deborah picked up and took all the way through making
an incredibly powerful documentary called Into the arms of strangers,
stories of the Kindred Transport, which one an oscar that
year at the Academy Awards. Now I've told deb this
(09:41):
many many times. I know a lot of people in
show off business. I am friends with a lot of
people in show off business, and except for a recent friendship,
I have never known anyone who won an oscar. And
here my bestie, who I've known since I met Chris,
So we're a thirty six year friendship. Through all her
(10:06):
own initiative and passion and dedication, um took that story
all the way to the highest point that our industry offers,
UM and expanded that history through books and education and
more and more. So this is a woman who is formidable,
(10:28):
which is why she took over my Instagram, I mean
my podcast. I do everything by the way I do Instagram, podcasting,
I do, I do it all. Um. So, anyway, now
that I've introduced you properly so that people now understand
why you hijacked my personal podcast called Good Friend, why
(10:49):
you can now say whatever you want. Um. So, first
of all, I came with props, not that anybody can
see it. Wow, there it is okay. So Deborah and
Oppenheimer just brought out the oscar, which I remind her
often when she's feeling down about um oh, and by
(11:11):
the way, we will discuss also the fantastic documentary she
made called Foster about the foster care system. And but
I do remind her when when the chips are down
or when she's feeling a little blue. I do say,
you're the only person I know with an oscar. Please
just go hold the oscar for like a second, just
(11:34):
kind of get that energy off of it and remind
yourself that, um you can do anything. Um So, anyway,
what were you trying to say about our friendship? I
was going to say that probably do you have notes? Okay,
the other thing you need to know about Debra Ann Oppenheimer.
And I'm saying this, I'm now that people are gonna
(11:57):
want to find you. I'm sure there's ways to track
her down. I'm not going to tell you how. Um,
As I've told all of my guests, I am not
selling things here. So yours is actually the only time
I've used anyone's credit of what they've done or how
they've you know, changed their life. But it's such an
integral part of our friendship. For me to be your cheerleader.
(12:17):
As you've done that that I felt it was an
appropriate place to drop my selling of you know, movies
and and and documentaries. But the thing you have to
know listeners. Debrah and Oppenheimer takes copious notes. And I
(12:37):
say copious, I mean copious, minuscule tiny writing on these
myriad um surfaces, pads, notebooks. Um. And if let's just
say you the healthy listener is we're past COVID, You've
gotten your vaccines, and you want to go to Paris
(12:59):
and you need a bra in Paris, Deborah and Oppenheimer
will say to you, oh you're going to Paris, Oh
you need a brawl? Okay, I want you to call Martin.
Here's her number. She works at the Faux Gall boutique
on the Russan Honoree and she this is her personal mobile.
(13:23):
I also have her mother's email. This is who Debora is.
Deborra is a researcher. Debra is someone who is thorough
and planned, I believe. Twice she asked me what we
were going to discuss here today and I kept saying friendship.
She was like, yeah, about like what part of friendship?
I'm like friendship. So anyway, you do have notes, please
(13:44):
use your notes right now and tell me what you
your notes read, because I love you for it. By
the way, it's why there's a golden statue at your
feet right now, because of that thorough dogmatic mind meld
of data and information and the storage of that, and
the the train that that leads you to. Sorry, so
(14:09):
I don't let you speaking. I don't know this little
detail by heart, but I have a note about it.
Of course you do in my telephone, which was that
you came to New York when Chris was on Saturday
Night Live in September, and you were at the Thread
(14:32):
Building where you rant, and I don't remember anything about
my life. You were at the Thread Building. I come
home every year. I'm from New York. I come home
every year for Thanksgiving. It's a holiday I love and
never missed. And so probably if you came to join
him in September eighty four, I'm guessing that Thanksgiving of
(14:55):
eighty four, so it's actually thirty seven years. Um. I
came walked into that apartment and it was instantaneous. There
was some connection between us, which does not always happen
for me and I'm sure it doesn't always happen for you.
(15:17):
That was absolutely instantaneous and what I love about a friendship,
which isn't always the case, but it is in our
case that we've known each other for thirty seven years,
and so we have evolved, we've changed, we've grown, we've
gone through ups, we've gone through downs, we've gone through transitions.
(15:39):
And if if by some fantastic stroke of fortune, your
friendship withstands those thirty seven years and you still have
similar values and similar um interests, If if that friendship
(16:02):
can stand up through all of that, it has such
depth and it is such a gift, it's so incredibly rewarding.
I remember when somebody said to me, well, you may
discard some friendships you made part ways with people, and
I thought, oh no, no, no, no, no, not me,
(16:24):
and come to discover, oh yeah, me, that does happen.
But in our case, we've been together for all this time,
and I treasure you, I value you, and I love
that are still friends, and certainly no end in sight
(16:46):
to any of that, no exploration day and locative. I'm
a good friend. We'll be right back with more good
friend after this quick break, So stick around. I don't
(17:07):
know any so I'm going to correct you about one thing,
which I promise. If I don't correct you, we will
get letters. Heart Radio you know Slash good Friend Okay
podcast Slash Dylan Fagin producer. Um, we will get letters.
(17:32):
Thanksgiving is in November. What did I say September? No,
I said you when I met Excuse me, our birthdays
are right around Thanksgiving. I understand comment. What I meant
was that you came to New York in September. I've
always come home in November for Thanksgiving, so two months
(17:55):
after you arrived in New York was probably and I
came and met you. Okay again, I'm quite to disabuse
you of only one thing. I was only, as you remember,
I only knew Christopher Guest. I had never spent more
than three days consecutive consecutively with him before we married.
(18:18):
That I mean we spent a couple three You think
it was after eighty four. No, I'm saying that I
came there in September to visit him. We met at
the Thread Building. I remember meeting you. Um, I remember
that meeting very well. And then I went back to
California because I was in the middle of shooting perfect
which started August and was quite It didn't actually end
(18:41):
until we got married, which was in December, so I
was shooting during that period of time. So that was
my only I just the math didn't add up. And
you know me, I am dogmatic about my math, but
I I will. I want to echo everything you've just said.
The first thing I want to echo and explore a
(19:03):
little bit is letting go of friendships. I think you
know when I quote pitched this show, when I had
the idea based on the song good Friend by Emily King.
When I heard that song and I thought about good
friends and the joy of my friendships, you know, some
of the pain of my friendships also popped into my head.
And you know, friendships are living things. They they exist
(19:28):
in a living format. It has to be. It's like
you said, you've changed, you grow, you expand, you contract.
It's elastic, it's moving, it is it is a living entity.
It is not rigid and calcified. And I get concerned
that relationships do get calcified. They get so locked into
(19:53):
the way that you do things with that friend that
that starts to feel like a calcification, like something hardened
around you. And then you feel the guilt of what
if I want to break this shell that is now
surrounding this French but feels stagnant. There is stagnation in friendships,
(20:18):
and I think you hit on that beautifully, which is
that there are people. I don't think it's a conscious
like I'm trying to say f you to that person,
or I'm I no longer care about you. I do
think you can grow apart from a friend and still
look back and say that friendship had such tremendous value
(20:43):
and import import not value, because it's not it's import.
The import in my d n a of who I
am some came from that relationship, and yet it no
longer is part of my life. And I've had guilt
about it and and great sadness about letting go of
(21:06):
those friendships. But the truth is they're not in my
mind and for whatever reason, and I feel terrible about it.
Sometimes or we'll run into each other and there's that
moment of like hi, hi, Hi, you know high voices,
you know a lot of like that that energy that
(21:27):
happens when you haven't seen someone, and there's always the
promise of the connection again. Okay, yeah, And we'll say
and I I've tried now to say I I don't know.
I hope so, but if not, no, that that time
was important to me, and I think that's do you
have that experience? Yeah, yeah, that there's an association with
(21:49):
a particular point in time. You may have a great
funness for or affection for the person, but you've grown
on different tracks and for whatever reason. And I don't
only I know I used the word discard because that's
what this person said to me. I don't mean that
you're discarding them, but you've grown apart for whatever reason,
(22:13):
and um, and so you don't sustain each other anymore.
And that was a maturation for me to understand. Oh,
okay that I that's that happens, and that's okay. My
contrast to it is when that doesn't happen and you
(22:36):
grow on parallel tracks. I mean, you and I are
different in certain ways, but where we are in common
and what we have in common and what's most important
to us, you know, that is a great thing. When
you share that with a friend, or you might have
one very specific thing that you share with a friend
(22:58):
and there in that year, they're not in a lot
of spheres are all spheres, but there in one particular arena,
and when you're doing that, or thinking about that, or
focused on that or engaged in that, then you you
may be back in tech with that person again. You know.
(23:19):
I find that exactly. It was funny the minute you
when you were talking, I was thinking about people and
I was thinking, oh, yeah, that's exactly right, that's exactly
how it is with so and so. UM. And by
the way, I I, uh, this is a podcast called
(23:39):
good Friend. It's the conversation about friendship some friends of mine,
some strangers, some people I have you know met once. Um.
I did an interview, uh with Lena Dunham and we've
never physically met, but we are fond of each other,
(24:01):
so obviously. But at the same time, I want to
be really mindful and I have to put this, Dylan,
we need to put this in our thinking caps because
I want to make sure that friends of mine don't
listen to this and then they're trying to figure out
who they are and me talking about well, you know
(24:22):
that person. I have to be really mindful. Um. It
just popped in my mind that people who know me
might listen in and then feel hurt that somehow maybe
that I was talking about them and I'm not. Um,
so whoever is listening and you know me and you
think I just said something about you that is not
the true, Well, we're The b thing about friendship is
that you can meet a moment a person for a
(24:44):
moment and you click and you connect and for that
moment in time, you're crazy about that person. You love
that person, and it's you know, lightning in a bottle,
it's fireflies. It asn't continue, but it's no less genuine
for whatever you connected on and however fleeting that it was,
(25:11):
and that that has value too in terms of enriching
your life and making your day. I think both Deborah
and I are in show off business or have been
for a long long time, and I think you have
that on um. You know, you've heard people talk about
movie cruise and TV cruise. These are technicians often or
(25:34):
they are a group of actors and technicians and writers
and producers and they come together to make something that's
the goal. And you have people who operate the camera,
you have people who hold the microphone, the boompole, you
have wardrobe people. You have obviously hair and makeup people,
and then you have the whole writing staff and the
production staff and um, the executives, and it is such
(25:58):
a collaborative furt and there are so many people that
we work with in show off business, UM that we
make those instantaneous bonds with that carry it through the project.
And then because we're all adults and we know that
we're all going to the next one, we separate that bond.
(26:22):
But it remains perfect. It does not leak, it's not
sort of bleeding out, and it's a little shell of itself.
It's complete and when you reconnect, it's as if you
haven't ever separated. So UM, when I was at the
(26:43):
Cinematographers Guild Awards and I ran in to a camera
operator named Dave, I won't say his last name just
in case, UM privacy rise, but I you know, it's
just weird. I've careful, I'm on a podcast. I'm talking to,
you know, potentially people all over the world. Anyway, I
(27:04):
had gone down the Amazon on a Guinness Book of
World Records TV show UM that I hosted along with
David Frost. David Frost went to Europe in a rolls Royce.
You know, he went to Austria, and England, and you know,
he drove around into Rolls Royce and did his narration
(27:26):
of these you know, Guinness record breakers there. And I
went down the Amazon in a boat. I mean I
we went to South America and small little crew and
Dave was one of those people. And I hadn't really
seen him again. Accepted the Academy Awards a couple of
times because he always works. But my memories and the
(27:48):
connection to Dave, and I was young, I was single.
I was surrounded by this small, little guerrilla group of
filmmakers and we were literally go on the top of
Angel Falls, um three thousand, two twelve feet. I had
to narrate. I remember it forever, um. But that relationship.
(28:09):
When I saw him at the Cinematographers Guild, it was
as if I hadn't not seen him since I was
nineteen years old. It was like that. And that's exactly
what you're talking about. You have that thing and I
haven't thought about Dave again. But the minute I saw him,
where you are you just gave him a couple of
(28:29):
minutes on your podcast. But it's that's the point, is
that that's the great value of of real relationships in
their complete open, wide, open, you know, leaning into each other, collaborating,
helping each other get to that final goal. I think
(28:50):
that happens in sales, in sales team and marketing. You know,
you do have that in businesses where you have teamwork
and you feel that way and then you move on.
But the thing that has always you sort of grounded
me with you is your expansion. Is the is your
(29:10):
dedication to your family. Um not something I was raised with.
You know of a somewhat disparate group of people, all
connected through some biology and yet fairly disconnected, loving each other,
but disconnected. You have a very close knit family. You
(29:31):
have a very um strong bond with your family. You
have a huge dedication to the past, into the history
of your family. And when your mom died and your
father hand you some letters that were in the closet
(29:55):
somewhere hidden, hidden in a drawer, and he said, you're
this sort of what you're sentimental. You're the sentimental one.
Maybe you want the right and what what value are these?
But oh, you're sentimental. You may want to look at
these letters, right, And they were in German, in that
tiny little writing on those onion skin papers, and it's
(30:21):
the beginning of the movie that you made about your
mother and her story and the friendships UM made along
the way between you and your partner, Mark and Um,
your editor, documentary partner. Oh sorry, see that's what happens.
(30:45):
That's why she's a producer. Everyone. Yes, I understand. Sorry,
I forgot that. The word partner has many meanings. Yes,
your documentary partner, Mark Harris, Um, your editor, Kate Emmond. Um.
There's that connection and the power of that, but also
(31:09):
in really the power of investigation. This young woman, my
friend Debbie, who was a you know, produced sitcoms, produced
multi camp sitcoms with very funny people Drew Carey and
Wanda Sykes, and you know, a wonderful writer Bruce Halford,
(31:31):
all of which was really the cornerstone of your professional life.
And yet the heart of this woman. Um took those letters,
sent them to an aunt. She translated them, and what
began was this investigation of what happened to your mom
(31:52):
when she was put on a train along with ten
when not in that moment, but you know, one of
ten thousand Jewish children who were allowed to leave Germany
before they stopped. That pro was did it stop at
Krystal knock, no krystal knock is what precipitated it. And
(32:13):
just so everybody understands because of something you said before.
These are kids who escaped Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia and the
Free State of danstig Um and went to Great Britain
and they went to strangers for an indeterminate amount of
time by and were sent by their parents who had
(32:36):
no idea where they were sending them or what would
befall them. And the thing that brought the kind to
transfort to an end, and it was ten aous in
Jewish and other children, was the outbreak of war. So
war broke out and the doors closed and so there
was That was why it was capped almost ten thousand children.
(32:58):
So um, I just wanted to say with you coming
out of that family that you had and the nature
of that family, and there was divorced in your family
and big careers and all of that, and my family
was the small town of suburban you know, escaped refugees
(33:20):
from Germany. You developed a relationship with my parents and
particularly with my father. But the idea, I mean, the
first I knew both of your parents. I had met
both of your parents. I know your sister. The first
deceased body I saw was your mother's, because your mother
(33:44):
had died. And I called the house and Chris told
me that your mom had just died, and I said,
where are where is she? And he told me you
were at the house. And I in my notes had
the phone number and the address of your mother's house,
and I just went there because having you as a
(34:06):
friend means you're also taught how to be a friend,
and it's very reciprocal. And so I showed up exactly
in the way that you showed up. That surreal moment
when someone has died and you know there's nothing to do. Really,
(34:27):
it's a it's a it's a really strange moment because
the struggle is over, the aid and comfort giving is
over in that moment, and I remember sort of a
couple of phone calls had been made and some arrangements
were being made, and people were coming, and all of
(34:51):
a sudden, there you were, and you didn't say a word.
You bore witness to that moment. You didn't inject yourself
on any level. You reached your hand out, you held
(35:15):
my hand and we stood there. Now, you know, I
it's something that happened today with a friend of mine
who is struggling with a child who's having a hard time,
and they keep saying they're trying to think of the
(35:37):
right words or actions or deeds to do or say.
And I suggested that they listened to something UM on
npr UM that was done called this I Believe, and
it's a woman named Debbie Hall who talks about the
power of presence, of simple bearing witness in without any deed, word, action, gesture,
(36:11):
just presence in another person's moment. And you did that,
And obviously I will never forget that moment because it
it was the purity of it. You didn't you know me,
I would, I think if it was reversed in that moment,
I would be trying to do something, and you didn't.
(36:32):
You just knew to stand there in silence and honor
what had just occurred. Ten minutes, fifteen minutes before, an
hour before whatever. I don't even remember, but that was
a moment and it goes back to that same honoring
that I just was talking about, um and very much
(36:59):
thank you for correcting me about about I want to
obviously make sure that people understand exactly what was happening
or to the best degree that they can um in
Nazi Germany. UM And and of course they escape, but
I'm when I said that they allowed. The German government
did allow unaccompanied children to be put on trains to
(37:24):
leave Germany for a period of time. And now, any
listener here who has a child, if you can imagine
taking that child to a train station and putting a
(37:45):
sign around their neck with their name, not a name,
not a name, a number, and that you didn't know
really where they were going. They didn't know where they
were going, and there was a very very very clear
(38:06):
possibility that you might not ever see them again. That's
what the Kinder Transport was. That's what the letters started
to illuminate. For Deb was the story of her mother
and the sacrifice of her of her grandparents, and the
(38:29):
profound gesture of love to give her that chance. UM
and Deb's involvement from the beginning, tracking down so many
(38:49):
of the survivors, so many of the Kinder transport, um,
getting it produced, getting the filmed, you know, finding the people.
Obviously people were also quite old, and so the possibility,
you know, it needed to get done. There was urgency here.
(39:09):
They were very ill older people involved this, This was
a very delicate undertaking and the research that Deb did,
the depth of research I joke about, you know, Martin
at foe gall in Paris, But imagine that every single
(39:31):
one of these people, and the the labyrinth of names
and people connected to each one of those survivors, each
one of those kinder Deb found and connected to and
made contact, loving contact. Deb even found the woman they
(39:51):
ended up. UM. Just to explain to the listeners, just
sort of where your mom ended up in the in
the place that she ended up, I'm going to do that,
and then I'm gonna get back to talking about friendship
because I love talking about my move. But there is
but there is something. But this is where I'm going
to trust me here, lady, with the list trust me
(40:14):
I have, I have, I'm I'm I'm aiming for it.
So through some insane coincidence and serendipity, I could find UM,
a bunch of girls who lived with my mother, one
of whom shared a bed with my mother. UM a
mattress that was stuffed with twigs and leaves and they
(40:35):
had to mold it into shape. And where they lived
in the ultimately in the attic servants quarters of the
baronet and a lady in the country side went for
two and a half years when these kind people whose
name I won't mention right now, of course, seem took
(40:56):
them in, although she deserve all this recognition. Who took
them and sheltered them, you know, put a roof over
their head, and they were in the attic servants quarters.
You came up with the title of that project already,
the girls in the attic. But yeah, I, through great serendipity,
I found because the point of all this was that
(41:17):
my mother never would tell her story. So it was
with her passing and the discovery of these letters that
led me too. But you can draw your arrows to this.
But I want to say two things about this. So
you've already acknowledged that I had an oscar on the
day of the Oscars, which is a very stressful day
(41:39):
because by this time, the lead up, you know, there's
so much hoopla, and I needed to have my head
on straight, and um, I didn't want to get caught
up in that, particularly because of the nature of the material.
I asked my family, as close as I am to them.
I didn't have a big house, and I asked everybody
(42:03):
to stay in a hotel they were able to come
out here. Warner Brothers got tickets for all of them
to come to the Oscers, which was amazing. The only
person who other than the people makeup in hair, but
we won't talk about all of that, who came to
my house on that day who felt safe and trustworthy
(42:24):
for me to have around when I was anxious and
scared and in unknown circumstances was this person who I
am speaking to right now. And you came, Jamie, your fantastic,
fantastic photographer, and you came with your camera. And because
I'm so at ease with you and so comfortable with you,
(42:46):
I should say that some of the best pictures that
have ever been taken of me or by you, and
you came and documented that day, which I love having.
I love having document mented the day of my you know,
Oscar nomination and subsequent win. And then as if that
(43:07):
weren't enough, you put it together in this wonderful book
which I also have here by my as one of
my props. And you made those photos and gave me
extra copies of them and put them in a beautiful album.
And so you be you know again we're talking about
(43:29):
who was there for special moments in your life, and
you know it may have been your mom's passing, and
you know, something as painful and sad and deep as that,
and it may have been one of the greatest days
of my life where you came and you documented and
memorialized that for me. I'm a good friend. We'll be
(43:54):
right back with more good friend after this quick break,
don't for the listener. I used to exclusively use a
like a m sex which is a very quiet little
(44:15):
film camera so it's not like a big intrusive camera.
And i' I have learned from some of the best,
Diana Walker being one of them, how to blend into
the scenery and wait for the light. Really so I
was able to again semi wordlessly show up at your
(44:41):
house that day, um and not in in insert myself
anywhere in your And there was a moment where you
said I need time, and you went into your bedroom.
Before you put your dress on, you were wearing that robe,
which I won't just scribe, but I think you guys
(45:02):
know if I called it that robe, what it looked like.
And you sat on the sette that had green velvet
stripes going down it. I remembered so well, and you
looked at the albums of photographs that you had put together,
(45:22):
these books, trans transcripts of interviews with with some of
the people in the movie, to ground yourself remembering that, yes,
you were getting ready to go to the Oscars and all,
as you said, the hoopla, the the shiny part of
(45:44):
our industry. And yet you were grounding yourself in why
you were going. What was the real import if you won?
What was the import wasn't a personal import. It was
the amount of um illumination that you were going to
get to give to that story, to your mother, to
(46:05):
the survivors, to the Holocaust as a whole, the voice,
the chorus of disapproval, the chorus of outrage, and the
miraculous saving of these these people who are in the movie.
And I'm just remembering. So you have this whole collection
of photos that you took, and you had your camera
(46:27):
on your TV screen for the moment past, and you
took a photo of me going up on the state
of the announcement. So I was still in my seat,
and my father and my sister were seated behind me,
and my sister was wiping a tear away from her eyes,
(46:47):
and you snapped a photo that also went into this
photo album, and something weird happened in the camera, and
there was this void that looked like a light was
shining on it, and we both decided to interpret that
as my mother looking down on me. I should also
say that you offered me one million dollars if I
(47:10):
were to win, to get up on that stage and
to say my mother would want me to tell you
that I'm single. I believe if I had done that,
you actually would have given me one million dollars. I
(47:30):
would have given it to Children's Hospital Los Angeles, for sure.
And I didn't have the color. I didn't have the
guts to just get up there and say my friend
Jamie Lee Fitness said that, and instead, not only did
I not have the nerve to say that, I wanted
to thank Bruce Helford, who was my business partner at
(47:50):
the time, and I said, I want to thank my partner,
and it's e. I just corrected you. Thank you. Everybody
thought that I was correct is thanking my romantic partner.
And then the next day you happened to be on
Jay Leno and you told them that you had wanted
me to say that, and so in effect you conveyed
(48:13):
the message and I there were no takers. But so
where I was going was the connections that your mom made.
That the connections that your mom made when living with
all these young women away from her parents is sort
(48:37):
of the nature of the friendship that we've been talking about.
That that moment in their lives, that moment of being
away from their families before they started their adult lives,
where they that you found the woman who shared the
bed with her, where we can only assume what that
(49:01):
really was. I know that you have some knowledge of
what that felt like to be with someone, to to
be able to share those intimacies, and I'm obviously not
here to talk about those intimacies. It's the where I
was heading was that your example through your mother has
(49:24):
been such an example of friendship. And obviously your mom
came to America and married and you know, stay in
touch with well. But she also didn't talk to you
the three children about it because it she defied the
(49:49):
Holocaust and the Nazis. She defied them by coming here
and having a family and raising these three beautiful kids.
And it was her way of saying, I am not
defined by you. I am not going to let you
rule my life. And yet she didn't talk about it,
(50:11):
and she didn't share that with you, and she didn't,
as you say, keep in contact with people. It was
then how they got through and how she got through.
And the movie that you made is such a is
such an honor to to the human spirit, to just
being able to survive and continue on in your life.
(50:36):
And I knew your mom and I know that reserve
and that strength in her, UM, and it's in you,
and Um, you know it's very it's very powerful, Deb.
It's a very powerful UM. It's a very powerful UM.
(50:58):
I also want to talk about Patrick for a minute, Um,
because you know the show is called Good Friend and Um.
Patrick Um was a young man in an orphanage in California,
and my friend Deb volunteered her time as a reader
(51:21):
UM at an orphanage to help kids read books and
made a special connection with this young man, became his
special friend, which was something that you had to earn,
You had to be cleared. There were tons of hoops
to jump through to established yourself as a person of
(51:43):
substance and seriousness, and it allowed you to then take
that relationship and expand it and be able to help
and take him out and be able to expand it
and it it for the listener, it and all the
way through. That young man was adopted by a family
(52:05):
along with his brother, if I'm not mistaken, and Um
lived with them happily, you know, found a family, was
part of a family. And but when Patrick enlisted in
the army, the marine. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, I know. Semplify, simplify,
(52:27):
semplify everybody, Bob Brandt, my stepfather, semplify. He was a marine.
Trust me. That's why I'm as rule following. My stepfather
was a marine. Sorry forgive me. Patrick, who's listening, going
like jam really the army? Come on anyway? Um, when
he joined the Marine Corps, my friend deb was the
(52:51):
one who drove him to his induction. Um, my friend
Deb Um stayed, you know, has stayed with his whole life.
And and when he shipped off to Iraq, I saw
him off. He was frightened. It was really frightened. It
was one of the only times in my life I
(53:11):
saw him cry. And who sent him letters and packages
in Iraq? Jamie, and who marked his birthday? Who has
a completely independent friendship with him. But you, I mean,
(53:31):
he talks to him. You resc more to his post
than I do. I I love Patrick, I know you did.
And I respected what he was doing, and I kept
his picture as my screen saver until he came home. Yep, um,
so that I would look at him every day and
thank him for his service. But I'm but I'm I'm
(53:56):
talking about friendship. This is a show called good Friend.
But look at that triangle of friendship ad I would
say it's a quadrangle because as recently as yesterday. Yes
I know, I know, I know this. Everybody listening if
I if you remember at the beginning of the podcast,
(54:19):
I mentioned that she was a little bossy and that
she came with a list and um props and her
oscar and the notebook of pictures. But I'm going to
interrupt her now and I'm going to make her just
listen to me. What makes a good friend, at the
(54:40):
core of it is trust. And you earned his trust,
and you earned his trust all the way through in
all of the areas that you have suited up and
shown up for him and he for you. And even
though that is a relationship in in many ways he
(55:05):
is your child many of us referred to him as
your son, even though that is not the way the
world calls him. But you are his friend. And I
wouldn't have been able to finish a podcast about friendship
(55:26):
except to say to people, you need to look at
that example. Here was a woman, a single woman in
Los Angeles, who befriended a young African American kid in
an orphanage years ago, seven years, seven years ago, and
(55:47):
it has become as significant a relationship and friendship that
it will prove to be probably the most significant French
ship you will ever have in your life. Deb and
it is the it is not the only reason I
have also been the recipient of your incredible friendship, but
(56:09):
it's a really important thing to remember that friendship comes
in all sorts of shapes and sizes. And your example,
both with your mother and the movies, and we haven't
even gotten into the foster care, which we won't have
time for. And your personal relationship with Patrick and your
(56:31):
friendship with him and my friendship with him through you
is one of the most satisfying, most life affirming relationships
I have, and it is why I was so happy
that you agreed to come here and share your lists
(56:51):
and you're funny way of absolutely suiting up and showing
up in your complete way. But it's why this podcast
is good because of people like you. And I am
honored to call you my friend and to have shared
(57:12):
so many things with you, and I only look for
the more that we can. And as we have come
to the end of our podcast, you need to know
that you are a good friend, Deborah Ann Oppenheimer, and
I love you with all of my heart. Well, I
adore you, Jamie, And when you asked me to do this,
I thought this is something I would really enjoy discussing
(57:36):
with her, because you've made me a better friend to
you and to other people in my life. You've you know, modeling,
you know, setting an example. How great is that to
have in your life? And so I thank you for
inviting me and I've I've enjoyed so much. Say it's
(57:59):
MS kind session with you. That's how it goes. Everybody
who's listening. Stay safe out there, you know, be good
to each other, and hopefully you'll listen up another time
another place. Be well to say God bless you all.
(58:28):
Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a
production of I Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend
is written, produced, and performed by Emily King. Unlogative from
(58:48):
a good Friend, I don't already Unlogative from a good Friend.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever listen to your
favorite shows.
If there's something already I know, I'll get it from
a good friend. Hi everybody, it's Jamie Lee Curtis and
you're listening to the Good Friend Podcast, presented to you
by my Heart Radio. It's a podcast about friendship. We
(00:22):
talk about everything, We cry, we laugh, we think about
what it really means to be a good friend. And
I have conversations with some of my best friends, some
people I've never met, and sort of everything in between.
So I hope by the end of it that you
(00:44):
have a really good sense of what friendship means to
me and the people that I consider friends. And I
hope you can take those same ideas into your own
friendship groups, and I hope you enjoy it. I don't
already a love and a good friends. This thing is
(01:07):
going in a ready babe. We are like, no, No,
that's how That's how we roll here at the Good
Friend Podcast. Is I that's my gotchaman for a minute?
Early of course? Oh wow? Was that a little friend snartness?
Not at one whit? So let's just ask that question
(01:28):
about timeliness because um my our guest our the community
of the Ears who listened to our Good Friend podcast,
um our guest today is deborrah Ann Oppenheimer, UM, a
very close friend of mine for a very long time.
But I guess the question is just first off, like
(01:51):
does that bother you that I'm super early? And be honest,
this is like the moment, like completely like tell the truth.
Know it doesn't bother me at all that you're super early.
It's just something you have to know about you that
if you say you're doing a dinner party at seven,
you're going to be there at six thirty. If we're
(02:13):
doing this podcast at one, it's not going to start
at one. It's going to start before one, and we
have to be ready before. But it's exactly one. Now.
I was going to say, according to that, but I
knew in planning with you that I should try earlier.
(02:35):
I wasn't quite as early as I would have liked
to have been. But you just know that about you. Okay,
But but isn't that friendship? Isn't that basically the whole
thing is like you know that about that person. So,
and what I would like to say about that is
that what I love about our friendship is that I
(02:55):
know you and you know me, and to know you means,
among many many many other things which I can disclose
or not. One has to know you're going, you're early,
you are punctual, and you're more than punctual. You're early,
(03:16):
And I don't have this. Why would anybody have a
problem with that? Well, I think some people do have
a problem with it, honestly. And I'm going to say
in my defense again since it is my podcast and
I controlled the universe. UM, I will say that I
don't believe if you call something for seven and I'm
(03:38):
there at six thirty, six thirty, I understand, is a
little early quarter to seven. Put it this way, I
will be in my car in front of your house
at six thirty, but I might not ring the doorbell
until sixty five, I think. I think fifteen minutes till showtime.
Most people have put their clothes on and already doing
(04:00):
the final lighting of the candles, which I usually offer
to help to do. Um. The minute you said to
know you is to love you is the way friendship works.
It makes that song. Isn't there a song to no
no no you? Is still yes to love love love,
And I do if but if you come early, and
(04:23):
if you get my seam right or double check how
my hair fulls or where if if my something is
on straight, then you would do that. So then great,
you're a helper when you show up early. Yes, I don't.
(04:44):
By the way, I'm not the type of person for
those of you who are listening who are going to
invite me now over, I'm going to get random invitations. Um.
I do show up with an intention to help my
hostess or host make make it a successful gathering. I
will grab food plates, I will pour almonds out of
(05:09):
the can into the beautiful bowl you brought back from
Africa and make it look like it's something beautiful. I
will certainly lean into that. And if somehow miraculously nothing
needs to be done, you don't need attention. You come early,
(05:29):
you're there, and you're not while I or whoever is
running around bustling trying to get ready. You're not needy
and demanding. So that's a really good let's start there that. See,
I knew we would find our our doorway into friendship
because I think that's a really important conversation. And I'm
(05:53):
sure our listeners um will be nodding at this moment
because they're our friends who take up a lot of
space and are super super needy um for whatever reason,
for whatever their psychological makeup is, and that's not been
(06:16):
our relationship. I feel like it's a really mutual showing up,
suiting up, showing up, helping, leaning into the help, versus
the pay attention to me, pay attention to me. But
I'm sure you have friends that are the other way
and bring charm and wonderfulness to that part of the friendship.
(06:42):
I think that's another thing about knowing you, which is
that you completely thoroughly come through if I need you.
But I don't think your threshold or mine for neediness.
That's not a quality we look for in a friend.
(07:04):
And and I think that there's a whole other complexity
to that, because I think we both do work on
ourselves and look inward, and that being needy is something
we have feelings about, and so we wouldn't eat. We
(07:25):
would have a conscience at a at a time where
we are needy and might need something from each other.
We have a perspective about that and a threshold for
that that we both tolerate and come through for and
then also place limits on. That sounds like the most
(07:47):
whole relationship I've ever heard described about friendship. Seriously, I
want to talk about an aspect of our friendship that
that is what I love about a friendship. If I
can take over here for a moment, how well, let
me just let people know what you do, because then
you'll understand why you just took over my podcast. Um
(08:12):
So UM. I met Deborah and Oppenheimer through my husband Christopher,
two friends of his became very very close friends of mine. UM.
Through that relationship through Chris as the portal one of
whom is debrah Ann Oppenheimer. And deb produces. So there
(08:33):
you understand now why she took over my podcast. She produces.
She's the boss um of a lot of people. She
does a lot of television, um and has done a
lot of television in the past. Um. And also and
we will way get into that in a minute. Also
on her own, under her own um Internal Drive made
(08:58):
took the story of her mother who was one of
the Kinder Transport children, one of the ten thousand Jewish
children allowed to leave Germany unaccompanied. Her mother who ended
up coming to America. Her story was after she died,
(09:20):
Deborah picked up and took all the way through making
an incredibly powerful documentary called Into the arms of strangers,
stories of the Kindred Transport, which one an oscar that
year at the Academy Awards. Now I've told deb this
(09:41):
many many times. I know a lot of people in
show off business. I am friends with a lot of
people in show off business, and except for a recent friendship,
I have never known anyone who won an oscar. And
here my bestie, who I've known since I met Chris,
So we're a thirty six year friendship. Through all her
(10:06):
own initiative and passion and dedication, um took that story
all the way to the highest point that our industry offers,
UM and expanded that history through books and education and
more and more. So this is a woman who is formidable,
(10:28):
which is why she took over my Instagram, I mean
my podcast. I do everything by the way I do Instagram, podcasting,
I do, I do it all. Um. So, anyway, now
that I've introduced you properly so that people now understand
why you hijacked my personal podcast called Good Friend, why
(10:49):
you can now say whatever you want. Um. So, first
of all, I came with props, not that anybody can
see it. Wow, there it is okay. So Deborah and
Oppenheimer just brought out the oscar, which I remind her
often when she's feeling down about um oh, and by
(11:11):
the way, we will discuss also the fantastic documentary she
made called Foster about the foster care system. And but
I do remind her when when the chips are down
or when she's feeling a little blue. I do say,
you're the only person I know with an oscar. Please
just go hold the oscar for like a second, just
(11:34):
kind of get that energy off of it and remind
yourself that, um you can do anything. Um So, anyway,
what were you trying to say about our friendship? I
was going to say that probably do you have notes? Okay,
the other thing you need to know about Debra Ann Oppenheimer.
And I'm saying this, I'm now that people are gonna
(11:57):
want to find you. I'm sure there's ways to track
her down. I'm not going to tell you how. Um,
As I've told all of my guests, I am not
selling things here. So yours is actually the only time
I've used anyone's credit of what they've done or how
they've you know, changed their life. But it's such an
integral part of our friendship. For me to be your cheerleader.
(12:17):
As you've done that that I felt it was an
appropriate place to drop my selling of you know, movies
and and and documentaries. But the thing you have to
know listeners. Debrah and Oppenheimer takes copious notes. And I
(12:37):
say copious, I mean copious, minuscule tiny writing on these
myriad um surfaces, pads, notebooks. Um. And if let's just
say you the healthy listener is we're past COVID, You've
gotten your vaccines, and you want to go to Paris
(12:59):
and you need a bra in Paris, Deborah and Oppenheimer
will say to you, oh you're going to Paris, Oh
you need a brawl? Okay, I want you to call Martin.
Here's her number. She works at the Faux Gall boutique
on the Russan Honoree and she this is her personal mobile.
(13:23):
I also have her mother's email. This is who Debora is.
Deborra is a researcher. Debra is someone who is thorough
and planned, I believe. Twice she asked me what we
were going to discuss here today and I kept saying friendship.
She was like, yeah, about like what part of friendship?
I'm like friendship. So anyway, you do have notes, please
(13:44):
use your notes right now and tell me what you
your notes read, because I love you for it. By
the way, it's why there's a golden statue at your
feet right now, because of that thorough dogmatic mind meld
of data and information and the storage of that, and
the the train that that leads you to. Sorry, so
(14:09):
I don't let you speaking. I don't know this little
detail by heart, but I have a note about it.
Of course you do in my telephone, which was that
you came to New York when Chris was on Saturday
Night Live in September, and you were at the Thread
(14:32):
Building where you rant, and I don't remember anything about
my life. You were at the Thread Building. I come
home every year. I'm from New York. I come home
every year for Thanksgiving. It's a holiday I love and
never missed. And so probably if you came to join
him in September eighty four, I'm guessing that Thanksgiving of
(14:55):
eighty four, so it's actually thirty seven years. Um. I
came walked into that apartment and it was instantaneous. There
was some connection between us, which does not always happen
for me and I'm sure it doesn't always happen for you.
(15:17):
That was absolutely instantaneous and what I love about a friendship,
which isn't always the case, but it is in our
case that we've known each other for thirty seven years,
and so we have evolved, we've changed, we've grown, we've
gone through ups, we've gone through downs, we've gone through transitions.
(15:39):
And if if by some fantastic stroke of fortune, your
friendship withstands those thirty seven years and you still have
similar values and similar um interests, If if that friendship
(16:02):
can stand up through all of that, it has such
depth and it is such a gift, it's so incredibly rewarding.
I remember when somebody said to me, well, you may
discard some friendships you made part ways with people, and
I thought, oh no, no, no, no, no, not me,
(16:24):
and come to discover, oh yeah, me, that does happen.
But in our case, we've been together for all this time,
and I treasure you, I value you, and I love
that are still friends, and certainly no end in sight
(16:46):
to any of that, no exploration day and locative. I'm
a good friend. We'll be right back with more good
friend after this quick break, So stick around. I don't
(17:07):
know any so I'm going to correct you about one thing,
which I promise. If I don't correct you, we will
get letters. Heart Radio you know Slash good Friend Okay
podcast Slash Dylan Fagin producer. Um, we will get letters.
(17:32):
Thanksgiving is in November. What did I say September? No,
I said you when I met Excuse me, our birthdays
are right around Thanksgiving. I understand comment. What I meant
was that you came to New York in September. I've
always come home in November for Thanksgiving, so two months
(17:55):
after you arrived in New York was probably and I
came and met you. Okay again, I'm quite to disabuse
you of only one thing. I was only, as you remember,
I only knew Christopher Guest. I had never spent more
than three days consecutive consecutively with him before we married.
(18:18):
That I mean we spent a couple three You think
it was after eighty four. No, I'm saying that I
came there in September to visit him. We met at
the Thread Building. I remember meeting you. Um, I remember
that meeting very well. And then I went back to
California because I was in the middle of shooting perfect
which started August and was quite It didn't actually end
(18:41):
until we got married, which was in December, so I
was shooting during that period of time. So that was
my only I just the math didn't add up. And
you know me, I am dogmatic about my math, but
I I will. I want to echo everything you've just said.
The first thing I want to echo and explore a
(19:03):
little bit is letting go of friendships. I think you
know when I quote pitched this show, when I had
the idea based on the song good Friend by Emily King.
When I heard that song and I thought about good
friends and the joy of my friendships, you know, some
of the pain of my friendships also popped into my head.
And you know, friendships are living things. They they exist
(19:28):
in a living format. It has to be. It's like
you said, you've changed, you grow, you expand, you contract.
It's elastic, it's moving, it is it is a living entity.
It is not rigid and calcified. And I get concerned
that relationships do get calcified. They get so locked into
(19:53):
the way that you do things with that friend that
that starts to feel like a calcification, like something hardened
around you. And then you feel the guilt of what
if I want to break this shell that is now
surrounding this French but feels stagnant. There is stagnation in friendships,
(20:18):
and I think you hit on that beautifully, which is
that there are people. I don't think it's a conscious
like I'm trying to say f you to that person,
or I'm I no longer care about you. I do
think you can grow apart from a friend and still
look back and say that friendship had such tremendous value
(20:43):
and import import not value, because it's not it's import.
The import in my d n a of who I
am some came from that relationship, and yet it no
longer is part of my life. And I've had guilt
about it and and great sadness about letting go of
(21:06):
those friendships. But the truth is they're not in my
mind and for whatever reason, and I feel terrible about it.
Sometimes or we'll run into each other and there's that
moment of like hi, hi, Hi, you know high voices,
you know a lot of like that that energy that
(21:27):
happens when you haven't seen someone, and there's always the
promise of the connection again. Okay, yeah, And we'll say
and I I've tried now to say I I don't know.
I hope so, but if not, no, that that time
was important to me, and I think that's do you
have that experience? Yeah, yeah, that there's an association with
(21:49):
a particular point in time. You may have a great
funness for or affection for the person, but you've grown
on different tracks and for whatever reason. And I don't
only I know I used the word discard because that's
what this person said to me. I don't mean that
you're discarding them, but you've grown apart for whatever reason,
(22:13):
and um, and so you don't sustain each other anymore.
And that was a maturation for me to understand. Oh,
okay that I that's that happens, and that's okay. My
contrast to it is when that doesn't happen and you
(22:36):
grow on parallel tracks. I mean, you and I are
different in certain ways, but where we are in common
and what we have in common and what's most important
to us, you know, that is a great thing. When
you share that with a friend, or you might have
one very specific thing that you share with a friend
(22:58):
and there in that year, they're not in a lot
of spheres are all spheres, but there in one particular arena,
and when you're doing that, or thinking about that, or
focused on that or engaged in that, then you you
may be back in tech with that person again. You know.
(23:19):
I find that exactly. It was funny the minute you
when you were talking, I was thinking about people and
I was thinking, oh, yeah, that's exactly right, that's exactly
how it is with so and so. UM. And by
the way, I I, uh, this is a podcast called
(23:39):
good Friend. It's the conversation about friendship some friends of mine,
some strangers, some people I have you know met once. Um.
I did an interview, uh with Lena Dunham and we've
never physically met, but we are fond of each other,
(24:01):
so obviously. But at the same time, I want to
be really mindful and I have to put this, Dylan,
we need to put this in our thinking caps because
I want to make sure that friends of mine don't
listen to this and then they're trying to figure out
who they are and me talking about well, you know
(24:22):
that person. I have to be really mindful. Um. It
just popped in my mind that people who know me
might listen in and then feel hurt that somehow maybe
that I was talking about them and I'm not. Um,
so whoever is listening and you know me and you
think I just said something about you that is not
the true, Well, we're The b thing about friendship is
that you can meet a moment a person for a
(24:44):
moment and you click and you connect and for that
moment in time, you're crazy about that person. You love
that person, and it's you know, lightning in a bottle,
it's fireflies. It asn't continue, but it's no less genuine
for whatever you connected on and however fleeting that it was,
(25:11):
and that that has value too in terms of enriching
your life and making your day. I think both Deborah
and I are in show off business or have been
for a long long time, and I think you have
that on um. You know, you've heard people talk about
movie cruise and TV cruise. These are technicians often or
(25:34):
they are a group of actors and technicians and writers
and producers and they come together to make something that's
the goal. And you have people who operate the camera,
you have people who hold the microphone, the boompole, you
have wardrobe people. You have obviously hair and makeup people,
and then you have the whole writing staff and the
production staff and um, the executives, and it is such
(25:58):
a collaborative furt and there are so many people that
we work with in show off business, UM that we
make those instantaneous bonds with that carry it through the project.
And then because we're all adults and we know that
we're all going to the next one, we separate that bond.
(26:22):
But it remains perfect. It does not leak, it's not
sort of bleeding out, and it's a little shell of itself.
It's complete and when you reconnect, it's as if you
haven't ever separated. So UM, when I was at the
(26:43):
Cinematographers Guild Awards and I ran in to a camera
operator named Dave, I won't say his last name just
in case, UM privacy rise, but I you know, it's
just weird. I've careful, I'm on a podcast. I'm talking to,
you know, potentially people all over the world. Anyway, I
(27:04):
had gone down the Amazon on a Guinness Book of
World Records TV show UM that I hosted along with
David Frost. David Frost went to Europe in a rolls Royce.
You know, he went to Austria, and England, and you know,
he drove around into Rolls Royce and did his narration
(27:26):
of these you know, Guinness record breakers there. And I
went down the Amazon in a boat. I mean I
we went to South America and small little crew and
Dave was one of those people. And I hadn't really
seen him again. Accepted the Academy Awards a couple of
times because he always works. But my memories and the
(27:48):
connection to Dave, and I was young, I was single.
I was surrounded by this small, little guerrilla group of
filmmakers and we were literally go on the top of
Angel Falls, um three thousand, two twelve feet. I had
to narrate. I remember it forever, um. But that relationship.
(28:09):
When I saw him at the Cinematographers Guild, it was
as if I hadn't not seen him since I was
nineteen years old. It was like that. And that's exactly
what you're talking about. You have that thing and I
haven't thought about Dave again. But the minute I saw him,
where you are you just gave him a couple of
(28:29):
minutes on your podcast. But it's that's the point, is
that that's the great value of of real relationships in
their complete open, wide, open, you know, leaning into each other, collaborating,
helping each other get to that final goal. I think
(28:50):
that happens in sales, in sales team and marketing. You know,
you do have that in businesses where you have teamwork
and you feel that way and then you move on.
But the thing that has always you sort of grounded
me with you is your expansion. Is the is your
(29:10):
dedication to your family. Um not something I was raised with.
You know of a somewhat disparate group of people, all
connected through some biology and yet fairly disconnected, loving each other,
but disconnected. You have a very close knit family. You
(29:31):
have a very um strong bond with your family. You
have a huge dedication to the past, into the history
of your family. And when your mom died and your
father hand you some letters that were in the closet
(29:55):
somewhere hidden, hidden in a drawer, and he said, you're
this sort of what you're sentimental. You're the sentimental one.
Maybe you want the right and what what value are these?
But oh, you're sentimental. You may want to look at
these letters, right, And they were in German, in that
tiny little writing on those onion skin papers, and it's
(30:21):
the beginning of the movie that you made about your
mother and her story and the friendships UM made along
the way between you and your partner, Mark and Um,
your editor, documentary partner. Oh sorry, see that's what happens.
(30:45):
That's why she's a producer. Everyone. Yes, I understand. Sorry,
I forgot that. The word partner has many meanings. Yes,
your documentary partner, Mark Harris, Um, your editor, Kate Emmond. Um.
There's that connection and the power of that, but also
(31:09):
in really the power of investigation. This young woman, my
friend Debbie, who was a you know, produced sitcoms, produced
multi camp sitcoms with very funny people Drew Carey and
Wanda Sykes, and you know, a wonderful writer Bruce Halford,
(31:31):
all of which was really the cornerstone of your professional life.
And yet the heart of this woman. Um took those letters,
sent them to an aunt. She translated them, and what
began was this investigation of what happened to your mom
(31:52):
when she was put on a train along with ten
when not in that moment, but you know, one of
ten thousand Jewish children who were allowed to leave Germany
before they stopped. That pro was did it stop at
Krystal knock, no krystal knock is what precipitated it. And
(32:13):
just so everybody understands because of something you said before.
These are kids who escaped Germany, Austria, Czechoslovakia and the
Free State of danstig Um and went to Great Britain
and they went to strangers for an indeterminate amount of
time by and were sent by their parents who had
(32:36):
no idea where they were sending them or what would
befall them. And the thing that brought the kind to
transfort to an end, and it was ten aous in
Jewish and other children, was the outbreak of war. So
war broke out and the doors closed and so there
was That was why it was capped almost ten thousand children.
(32:58):
So um, I just wanted to say with you coming
out of that family that you had and the nature
of that family, and there was divorced in your family
and big careers and all of that, and my family
was the small town of suburban you know, escaped refugees
(33:20):
from Germany. You developed a relationship with my parents and
particularly with my father. But the idea, I mean, the
first I knew both of your parents. I had met
both of your parents. I know your sister. The first
deceased body I saw was your mother's, because your mother
(33:44):
had died. And I called the house and Chris told
me that your mom had just died, and I said,
where are where is she? And he told me you
were at the house. And I in my notes had
the phone number and the address of your mother's house,
and I just went there because having you as a
(34:06):
friend means you're also taught how to be a friend,
and it's very reciprocal. And so I showed up exactly
in the way that you showed up. That surreal moment
when someone has died and you know there's nothing to do. Really,
(34:27):
it's a it's a it's a really strange moment because
the struggle is over, the aid and comfort giving is
over in that moment, and I remember sort of a
couple of phone calls had been made and some arrangements
were being made, and people were coming, and all of
(34:51):
a sudden, there you were, and you didn't say a word.
You bore witness to that moment. You didn't inject yourself
on any level. You reached your hand out, you held
(35:15):
my hand and we stood there. Now, you know, I
it's something that happened today with a friend of mine
who is struggling with a child who's having a hard time,
and they keep saying they're trying to think of the
(35:37):
right words or actions or deeds to do or say.
And I suggested that they listened to something UM on
npr UM that was done called this I Believe, and
it's a woman named Debbie Hall who talks about the
power of presence, of simple bearing witness in without any deed, word, action, gesture,
(36:11):
just presence in another person's moment. And you did that,
And obviously I will never forget that moment because it
it was the purity of it. You didn't you know me,
I would, I think if it was reversed in that moment,
I would be trying to do something, and you didn't.
(36:32):
You just knew to stand there in silence and honor
what had just occurred. Ten minutes, fifteen minutes before, an
hour before whatever. I don't even remember, but that was
a moment and it goes back to that same honoring
that I just was talking about, um and very much
(36:59):
thank you for correcting me about about I want to
obviously make sure that people understand exactly what was happening
or to the best degree that they can um in
Nazi Germany. UM And and of course they escape, but
I'm when I said that they allowed. The German government
did allow unaccompanied children to be put on trains to
(37:24):
leave Germany for a period of time. And now, any
listener here who has a child, if you can imagine
taking that child to a train station and putting a
(37:45):
sign around their neck with their name, not a name,
not a name, a number, and that you didn't know
really where they were going. They didn't know where they
were going, and there was a very very very clear
(38:06):
possibility that you might not ever see them again. That's
what the Kinder Transport was. That's what the letters started
to illuminate. For Deb was the story of her mother
and the sacrifice of her of her grandparents, and the
(38:29):
profound gesture of love to give her that chance. UM
and Deb's involvement from the beginning, tracking down so many
(38:49):
of the survivors, so many of the Kinder transport, um,
getting it produced, getting the filmed, you know, finding the people.
Obviously people were also quite old, and so the possibility,
you know, it needed to get done. There was urgency here.
(39:09):
They were very ill older people involved this, This was
a very delicate undertaking and the research that Deb did,
the depth of research I joke about, you know, Martin
at foe gall in Paris, But imagine that every single
(39:31):
one of these people, and the the labyrinth of names
and people connected to each one of those survivors, each
one of those kinder Deb found and connected to and
made contact, loving contact. Deb even found the woman they
(39:51):
ended up. UM. Just to explain to the listeners, just
sort of where your mom ended up in the in
the place that she ended up, I'm going to do that,
and then I'm gonna get back to talking about friendship
because I love talking about my move. But there is
but there is something. But this is where I'm going
to trust me here, lady, with the list trust me
(40:14):
I have, I have, I'm I'm I'm aiming for it.
So through some insane coincidence and serendipity, I could find UM,
a bunch of girls who lived with my mother, one
of whom shared a bed with my mother. UM a
mattress that was stuffed with twigs and leaves and they
(40:35):
had to mold it into shape. And where they lived
in the ultimately in the attic servants quarters of the
baronet and a lady in the country side went for
two and a half years when these kind people whose
name I won't mention right now, of course, seem took
(40:56):
them in, although she deserve all this recognition. Who took
them and sheltered them, you know, put a roof over
their head, and they were in the attic servants quarters.
You came up with the title of that project already,
the girls in the attic. But yeah, I, through great serendipity,
I found because the point of all this was that
(41:17):
my mother never would tell her story. So it was
with her passing and the discovery of these letters that
led me too. But you can draw your arrows to this.
But I want to say two things about this. So
you've already acknowledged that I had an oscar on the
day of the Oscars, which is a very stressful day
(41:39):
because by this time, the lead up, you know, there's
so much hoopla, and I needed to have my head
on straight, and um, I didn't want to get caught
up in that, particularly because of the nature of the material.
I asked my family, as close as I am to them.
I didn't have a big house, and I asked everybody
(42:03):
to stay in a hotel they were able to come
out here. Warner Brothers got tickets for all of them
to come to the Oscers, which was amazing. The only
person who other than the people makeup in hair, but
we won't talk about all of that, who came to
my house on that day who felt safe and trustworthy
(42:24):
for me to have around when I was anxious and
scared and in unknown circumstances was this person who I
am speaking to right now. And you came, Jamie, your fantastic,
fantastic photographer, and you came with your camera. And because
I'm so at ease with you and so comfortable with you,
(42:46):
I should say that some of the best pictures that
have ever been taken of me or by you, and
you came and documented that day, which I love having.
I love having document mented the day of my you know,
Oscar nomination and subsequent win. And then as if that
(43:07):
weren't enough, you put it together in this wonderful book
which I also have here by my as one of
my props. And you made those photos and gave me
extra copies of them and put them in a beautiful album.
And so you be you know again we're talking about
(43:29):
who was there for special moments in your life, and
you know it may have been your mom's passing, and
you know, something as painful and sad and deep as that,
and it may have been one of the greatest days
of my life where you came and you documented and
memorialized that for me. I'm a good friend. We'll be
(43:54):
right back with more good friend after this quick break,
don't for the listener. I used to exclusively use a
like a m sex which is a very quiet little
(44:15):
film camera so it's not like a big intrusive camera.
And i' I have learned from some of the best,
Diana Walker being one of them, how to blend into
the scenery and wait for the light. Really so I
was able to again semi wordlessly show up at your
(44:41):
house that day, um and not in in insert myself
anywhere in your And there was a moment where you
said I need time, and you went into your bedroom.
Before you put your dress on, you were wearing that robe,
which I won't just scribe, but I think you guys
(45:02):
know if I called it that robe, what it looked like.
And you sat on the sette that had green velvet
stripes going down it. I remembered so well, and you
looked at the albums of photographs that you had put together,
(45:22):
these books, trans transcripts of interviews with with some of
the people in the movie, to ground yourself remembering that, yes,
you were getting ready to go to the Oscars and all,
as you said, the hoopla, the the shiny part of
(45:44):
our industry. And yet you were grounding yourself in why
you were going. What was the real import if you won?
What was the import wasn't a personal import. It was
the amount of um illumination that you were going to
get to give to that story, to your mother, to
(46:05):
the survivors, to the Holocaust as a whole, the voice,
the chorus of disapproval, the chorus of outrage, and the
miraculous saving of these these people who are in the movie.
And I'm just remembering. So you have this whole collection
of photos that you took, and you had your camera
(46:27):
on your TV screen for the moment past, and you
took a photo of me going up on the state
of the announcement. So I was still in my seat,
and my father and my sister were seated behind me,
and my sister was wiping a tear away from her eyes,
(46:47):
and you snapped a photo that also went into this
photo album, and something weird happened in the camera, and
there was this void that looked like a light was
shining on it, and we both decided to interpret that
as my mother looking down on me. I should also
say that you offered me one million dollars if I
(47:10):
were to win, to get up on that stage and
to say my mother would want me to tell you
that I'm single. I believe if I had done that,
you actually would have given me one million dollars. I
(47:30):
would have given it to Children's Hospital Los Angeles, for sure.
And I didn't have the color. I didn't have the
guts to just get up there and say my friend
Jamie Lee Fitness said that, and instead, not only did
I not have the nerve to say that, I wanted
to thank Bruce Helford, who was my business partner at
(47:50):
the time, and I said, I want to thank my partner,
and it's e. I just corrected you. Thank you. Everybody
thought that I was correct is thanking my romantic partner.
And then the next day you happened to be on
Jay Leno and you told them that you had wanted
me to say that, and so in effect you conveyed
(48:13):
the message and I there were no takers. But so
where I was going was the connections that your mom made.
That the connections that your mom made when living with
all these young women away from her parents is sort
(48:37):
of the nature of the friendship that we've been talking about.
That that moment in their lives, that moment of being
away from their families before they started their adult lives,
where they that you found the woman who shared the
bed with her, where we can only assume what that
(49:01):
really was. I know that you have some knowledge of
what that felt like to be with someone, to to
be able to share those intimacies, and I'm obviously not
here to talk about those intimacies. It's the where I
was heading was that your example through your mother has
(49:24):
been such an example of friendship. And obviously your mom
came to America and married and you know, stay in
touch with well. But she also didn't talk to you
the three children about it because it she defied the
(49:49):
Holocaust and the Nazis. She defied them by coming here
and having a family and raising these three beautiful kids.
And it was her way of saying, I am not
defined by you. I am not going to let you
rule my life. And yet she didn't talk about it,
(50:11):
and she didn't share that with you, and she didn't,
as you say, keep in contact with people. It was
then how they got through and how she got through.
And the movie that you made is such a is
such an honor to to the human spirit, to just
being able to survive and continue on in your life.
(50:36):
And I knew your mom and I know that reserve
and that strength in her, UM, and it's in you,
and Um, you know it's very it's very powerful, Deb.
It's a very powerful UM. It's a very powerful UM.
(50:58):
I also want to talk about Patrick for a minute, Um,
because you know the show is called Good Friend and Um.
Patrick Um was a young man in an orphanage in California,
and my friend Deb volunteered her time as a reader
(51:21):
UM at an orphanage to help kids read books and
made a special connection with this young man, became his
special friend, which was something that you had to earn,
You had to be cleared. There were tons of hoops
to jump through to established yourself as a person of
(51:43):
substance and seriousness, and it allowed you to then take
that relationship and expand it and be able to help
and take him out and be able to expand it
and it it for the listener, it and all the
way through. That young man was adopted by a family
(52:05):
along with his brother, if I'm not mistaken, and Um
lived with them happily, you know, found a family, was
part of a family. And but when Patrick enlisted in
the army, the marine. Sorry, sorry, sorry, I know, I know. Semplify, simplify,
(52:27):
semplify everybody, Bob Brandt, my stepfather, semplify. He was a marine.
Trust me. That's why I'm as rule following. My stepfather
was a marine. Sorry forgive me. Patrick, who's listening, going
like jam really the army? Come on anyway? Um, when
he joined the Marine Corps, my friend deb was the
(52:51):
one who drove him to his induction. Um, my friend
Deb Um stayed, you know, has stayed with his whole life.
And and when he shipped off to Iraq, I saw
him off. He was frightened. It was really frightened. It
was one of the only times in my life I
(53:11):
saw him cry. And who sent him letters and packages
in Iraq? Jamie, and who marked his birthday? Who has
a completely independent friendship with him. But you, I mean,
(53:31):
he talks to him. You resc more to his post
than I do. I I love Patrick, I know you did.
And I respected what he was doing, and I kept
his picture as my screen saver until he came home. Yep, um,
so that I would look at him every day and
thank him for his service. But I'm but I'm I'm
(53:56):
talking about friendship. This is a show called good Friend.
But look at that triangle of friendship ad I would
say it's a quadrangle because as recently as yesterday. Yes
I know, I know, I know this. Everybody listening if
I if you remember at the beginning of the podcast,
(54:19):
I mentioned that she was a little bossy and that
she came with a list and um props and her
oscar and the notebook of pictures. But I'm going to
interrupt her now and I'm going to make her just
listen to me. What makes a good friend, at the
(54:40):
core of it is trust. And you earned his trust,
and you earned his trust all the way through in
all of the areas that you have suited up and
shown up for him and he for you. And even
though that is a relationship in in many ways he
(55:05):
is your child many of us referred to him as
your son, even though that is not the way the
world calls him. But you are his friend. And I
wouldn't have been able to finish a podcast about friendship
(55:26):
except to say to people, you need to look at
that example. Here was a woman, a single woman in
Los Angeles, who befriended a young African American kid in
an orphanage years ago, seven years, seven years ago, and
(55:47):
it has become as significant a relationship and friendship that
it will prove to be probably the most significant French
ship you will ever have in your life. Deb and
it is the it is not the only reason I
have also been the recipient of your incredible friendship, but
(56:09):
it's a really important thing to remember that friendship comes
in all sorts of shapes and sizes. And your example,
both with your mother and the movies, and we haven't
even gotten into the foster care, which we won't have
time for. And your personal relationship with Patrick and your
(56:31):
friendship with him and my friendship with him through you
is one of the most satisfying, most life affirming relationships
I have, and it is why I was so happy
that you agreed to come here and share your lists
(56:51):
and you're funny way of absolutely suiting up and showing
up in your complete way. But it's why this podcast
is good because of people like you. And I am
honored to call you my friend and to have shared
(57:12):
so many things with you, and I only look for
the more that we can. And as we have come
to the end of our podcast, you need to know
that you are a good friend, Deborah Ann Oppenheimer, and
I love you with all of my heart. Well, I
adore you, Jamie, And when you asked me to do this,
I thought this is something I would really enjoy discussing
(57:36):
with her, because you've made me a better friend to
you and to other people in my life. You've you know, modeling,
you know, setting an example. How great is that to
have in your life? And so I thank you for
inviting me and I've I've enjoyed so much. Say it's
(57:59):
MS kind session with you. That's how it goes. Everybody
who's listening. Stay safe out there, you know, be good
to each other, and hopefully you'll listen up another time
another place. Be well to say God bless you all.
(58:28):
Good Friend is produced by Dylan Fagin and is a
production of I Heart Radio. Our theme song, good Friend
is written, produced, and performed by Emily King. Unlogative from
(58:48):
a good Friend, I don't already Unlogative from a good Friend.
For more podcasts from my Heart Radio, visit the I
Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever listen to your
favorite shows.
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Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.