October 7, 2021 • 58 mins
On today's Good Friend Jamie talks to best friends Lea Michele and Jonathan Groff. They tell Jamie about how they were inseparable during their time together in the musical Spring Awakening, the only time they had a big fight, and the beauty of growing as friends through all of life's changes.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
If there's something I'll get if I'm a good friend. Hi, everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis. You're listening to the Good Friend Podcast,
presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast
(00:22):
about friendship, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly,
the triumphs of friendship, the immense connection and emotion of friendship,
the laughter and occasionally the tears. We explore it all
in an unscripted, very free form way with many, many
(00:42):
different guests, some I'm very close friends with, some I've
never met. And I hope that you will take away
from it something that connects you to your friends, and
that the ideas that we talk about can maybe be
taken into your own friendships. So sit back, or take
a walk, or however you listen. I hope you enjoy
(01:03):
it and stay tuned a good Friend. We've started rolling
on this podcast today, uh in an unexpected way, which
is perfect for me. Um. My guest right now is
Leah Michelle, and Leah was just discussing how her mother
(01:28):
ended up living with her for the year basically from
the moment she found out she was pregnant through the
birth of her son. So I just thought it was because,
by the way, there is no greater definition of the
word good friend than a mother who suits up and
shows up in partnership with their daughter. And I just
(01:52):
thought that was. You know, here we are talking about
good friends. But to me, that's the greatest, um sort
of designation of a friend. Um, so just tell me
more about what that was like to have your mom
there with you the whole man. Well, I think it was.
It was her greatest dream come true for sure. Um,
it was unexpected. And my mother and my mother's my
(02:16):
second to Jonathan, or not second to Jonathan equally, Jonathan
and my mother are my best friends. My my mother
is my best friend, and my mom and I have
had a very interesting relationship throughout the years. I think
that any mother and daughter relationship that sometimes can be
a little too ameshed can have its complications, um, as
(02:36):
you start to spread your wings as an as an adult.
But any girlfriend that I'd spoken to who might have
understood similar issues said, once you have a child or
once you get pregnant, that relationship with your mother just
amplifies more than you could even expect. And it did
just that I sort of understood my mother in a way.
(02:59):
I never had my whole life, and how she could
be there for me. I had an incredibly high risk pregnancy.
I was on um mandatory bed rest my entire first trimester,
and I had a many scares in my second trimester,
and how she rose to the occasion for me, it
(03:21):
was just incredible. Is Jonathan here now? He just arrived.
So so, Jonathan, you have now just entered the river.
You've you've you've jumped into a running river. Because Leah
was starting to discuss the pandemic and the isolation with
her mom that her mom has been with her, and
I realized that the best example of a good friend
(03:45):
really is a mother who suits up, shows up, sticks
by their child as they carry, deliver, and then care
for a child. And so we started recording Well it
just felt like such an organic, perfect way to talk
about it. And then um, she explained that really her
mother and you, Jonathan Groff, are her best friends. And
(04:09):
now you're here. It's just it's the way the Good
Friend Podcast. We just roll with it. Can you see me? Dad? Oh? Yeah,
can you see can you see him? No? I saw
him briefly, Um, yeah that and will tell you about that.
(04:30):
So if I don't think he's ever called me Leah.
And when he says Leah, but it feels like I'm
being scolded or something. Okay, so what I'm sorry? What
is your word for her? Jonathan? This is really funny
because it's it's in tune with the mother. As I'm
jumping into the river on the in the Mother discussion,
Leah and I call each other mom and dad. It started.
(04:55):
It started during spring weekening Remy's aching. One of the
cast members started calling us mom and dad because we,
I guess assumed the mother father figures in certain ways
with the with the cast, with the company. And then
now for fifteen years, we're calling each other mom and dad. Okay,
well I'm I'm hey mom, Mommy. By the way, my people,
(05:18):
if you ever see I will post something, I will say, well,
mommy is very happy Mommy of the Mommy is talking
to mom and dad. And by the way, this is
another Obviously, when I conceived the idea of doing a
podcast about friendship, um, something so crucial during this last
very challenging time in all of our lives, I you know,
(05:42):
obviously conceived it thinking Okay, I'll call it and I'll
call up you know, you just start thinking of the
friends that you have that you would call. And there
were people I reached out to who turned me down.
By the way, I'm just saying, here's my I'm going
to do my radio voice for a minute. I I
completely understand that people would turn me down. And honestly,
(06:06):
somebody said me, well, why would they do it? Like
who are you? Like? Really, who are you to why
would they turn you down? That's no, no, no. The opposite,
which is simply these are busy people. And you know,
it's that thing where I'm so enthusiastic in my heart
is so open that I'm just like a puppy. I'm like, yeah,
I mean, Leon knows I'm I'm a bit of a cheerleader.
(06:28):
So I'm like, come on, let's do it. Let's put
on a show together. And you know, I got a
couple of lovely, sort of respectful declines, and it was
it was really ego centering for me to go, oh right, right.
So anyway, the fact is there are some people that
(06:49):
I have never met on this podcast, and you are
my first stranger, and I'm and I love that our
strange meeting happened in the way it has with Leah
beginning to talk about being a new mom her mom,
(07:09):
I'm thrilled that the two of you have joined me.
Oh my gosh, I've said for so long because Jamie,
you've texted me about Jonathan for a while, you know,
when you watched Hamilton's and always like tell your friends
were you in Hamilton's. Oh wow, Well we'll have to
talk and we'll have to yeah briefly, yeah, but maybe memorably.
(07:31):
Maybe we'll talk about that um or maybe not um.
For the listener, Leah will be playing the part of
mom and Jonathan will be playing the part of dad,
and I will, I guess be mommy so super confused, sorry, Mom, continue.
I just I felt for a very long time that
(07:52):
wants you to meet. I know you will love each other,
like I just have had such a strong feeling I
have such a Jonathan for so long too, Like you
just have to meet Ja l C. And when you do, um,
I just know that you two will also become good friends. Well, hey,
(08:12):
thank you by the way, for the For the person
who's not watching, because this is a podcast, so you're listening. Leah,
just I mean, mom, just did the mom just did
the thing where you hold your hands up to your
face in that kind of poesy way. Um, because she
threw in the good friend, like, because she's a highly
paid professional. Branding is everything. You've got a brand and brand.
(08:41):
I'm grateful for your branding moment um. So Dad, I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna get over. It's just gonna
just get used to it, bab because mommy mommy, and
you know, we'll discuss the mommy of it all. So
is it true that you two did meet on the
(09:05):
Spring Awakenings of it All? Or did you know each
other before? No, we met at our audition first Spring Awakening.
I had done previous workshops of the show prior to
Jonathan joining the cast, and they were auditioning for you know,
his part, And um, here comes this boy from Lancaster,
(09:28):
Pennsylvania with more gel in should be legal one of
those um books that my son plays with that like
makes those I love, And you know how much I
(09:53):
love that book. I've been playing with with him with
that book right with the crinkly paper that makes crinkolicea
And of course he had a gelled quaff and and
I remember being in the audition with him and just
taking a liking to Jonathan and I couldn't have the
city mouse, he was the country mouse. And um, but
(10:14):
I just it's also a book series, by the way,
and I just refer saying to myself, like, oh, this
poor sweet boy from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, like I'm going to
help him and take him under my wing. And fast
forward fifteen years and he's in like the Matrix series
and he's been in every iconic hit for the past
(10:36):
ten years now. And Jonathan is just has rose to
such incredible stardom that he's so so deserves and you
fell to such horrible depths and it's such you know what. Honestly,
I felt like this was my way of kind of
pulling you up from from the bottom of your talent
(10:58):
pool and say come on, um, mom, you can do
it too, you know. Yeah, And but just by the way,
and um, for the listener, as you know, I am
not We're not here to sell things. Um, I'm here
(11:18):
to have a conversation. And you know, obviously people's work
is going to come up in it. But I need
to tell you something. I don't know how mom, I
saw a clip or it must have been a YouTube
thing or somebody sent me, so you know, how do
we get these things into our phones? Things arrive on
your phone, you go what and you click on it
(11:39):
and it was you doing a monologue from Scream Queens.
And for those who have not watched Scream Queens, which
I guess is available on some platform, the comic snark
that comes up this woman. It was so delightful to
(12:02):
behold this just wickedly funny um kind of I'm not
going to say, kind of totally deranged human um with
this kind of weird just it was a great performance,
but it it was so funny because I hadn't watched it. Obviously,
(12:24):
I don't sit around, you know. Can you imagine Chris
Guest with me going like, oh honey, I'm just watching screen.
I just started if like was born, so I thought
i'd watch my old mark. You can only imagine how
that would go in my house. Anyway, I was reminded
of that. I don't even know where I know, I
know right, because you were the dregs of your career
(12:46):
while Jonathan or while dad has risen um, so you
met and made did did the bond? I'm hearing a theme.
I wonder if you guys are going to add onto
it that when you met, you knew did did it
happen quickly or did it happen over a period of time.
I have I really remember of that audition for Spring Awakening,
(13:11):
and I remember Leah coming over and introducing herself, and
I felt incredibly intimidated because Leah had done three Broadway
shows I think at that point Lima's ragtime Fiddler, and
I was very green and she was very experienced. And
(13:32):
I remember, like we had to audition. We can get
into in a minute to just how intense the relationship
our relationship got because of the subject matter of Spring Awakening.
But in this audition, we had to do a scene
where we were I was beating her with a stick
and she I remember her at the audition before going in,
(13:52):
her saying, here's this pencil. Used this pencil as the prop,
but don't actually hit me with it. But what we're
doing the scene, you can. She was sort of like
helping me, and even at that stage and are the
very first day that we met, sort of saying, you know,
the director is gonna want to see this, but he's
not gonna want to see you hit me. But she
kind of was taking me by the hand and sort
of teaching me the ropes from the very first day
(14:14):
we met. And then the other first memory I have
is after our first day of rehearsal, on the way out,
her saying to me, just so you know, we're gonna
be lifelong friends. I could cry right now. I know
you know what do cry? By the way, this is
(14:36):
a crying site website. This is our podcast web this
what is it? It's a podcast? I know with this.
I'm a movie actress. So you know we're not on camera.
Nobody else see you cry, but they'll hear you. She
said that. She said, yeah, she took my hand and
she was like, just so you know, like we're gonna
be We're gonna be friends forever. And I remember feeling scared.
(14:57):
This is how I felt. I was like, I was like,
who is this person? Like how does she know? I
felt very green, Like she said, it was a country mouse,
city mouse. We were polar opposites. I was closeted, I
was not out of the class. I was gay. I
had a boyfriend who was my roommate. Leah was this
very kind of extremely talented, extremely professional, extremely outgoing, experienced
(15:25):
young person, and I was the total opposite. I had
some raw ability, but I had no finesse, and I
had no idea how things worked. Uh, and I was
not comfortable even in a very sort of like important way,
with who I was. And we spent the next two
years doing this incredibly intimate, sexual, emotional, deep show that
(15:53):
were like the the art of it, the acting of
it was incredibly challenging and incredibly difficult and then professional
We were nominated for awards and the show became really successful,
and we we rode this wave of success together. So
it was this work that was incredibly challenging and intimate
(16:14):
combined with this sort of life changing experience. The show
was for both of us, and so we were getting
this creative back kind we did. We do scenes where
we're like crying looking at each other and making out
with each other with tongue and dry humping each other.
And in my in my best man speech at Leah's wedding,
(16:34):
I had done the math and he was like, I
forget how many thousands of times we had simulated sex together.
It's a lot of times. And and all those things
combined created created this lifelong bond that that we then,
like now has grown and development and evolved. But from
that first day of rehearsal, Leah, as usual as she's
(16:58):
known to do, saw it and called it. She's really
good at doing that. Can I say something please, Although
I'm going to tell you one thing, I think this
will be the only podcast in history and we may
win an award for it where my guests discuss simulating
(17:21):
sex more than any other people in the history of
show business. In the best man speech, I think I
think in that very tiny category we have one. I
would dust off your you know, fancy suit because I
think we're going to that for most weird intimate share.
(17:46):
We haven't even started yet. Okay, well, but I think
we now know who the winner is, so I'm sorry, mom. Continue.
He also included in that speech that then when we
went on to work on Glee together, our characters got
married and had a baby together. So the stimulated sex
from Spring Awakening then grew into then actual baby and
(18:08):
on Glee. But we'll get into that. But I have
to say I have such a um, I have such
a specific memory with Jonathan groff Um of us. It
was very early into the rehearsal process of Spring awakening
and and for my memory, our relationship, it went from
zero to a million very quickly. I mean we were
(18:30):
working on stage together intimately all night, and then we
would go to each other's houses. I would go to
his apartment the minute the show was over. He would
take a long time at the stage door with signing
autographs and stuff, and I would I would go faster
and meet him at home and wait for him at
his apartment and wait for him to just be with
(18:52):
me after the show and sleep in his bed sometimes.
But I have this memory of a little earlier, at
just the beginning of our relationship. We went to the
moment I think to see some Edward Monk exhibit that
was there. And um, I have a very strong personality
that I know. That's the other big board winning revelation.
(19:20):
I got it out of her. Wow, I'm so excited.
That is not true, mom, It's an acquired taste. UM.
I remember early on, I knew that Jonathan was gay
(19:41):
and was in the closet, and I knew that his
roommate was not just his room. And I knew all
these things. You know, I lived in New York my
whole life, and um, and I remember asking him at
this museum. I was like, so, do you have like
a you know, girlfriend or boyfriend or something. And he
was like, no, no, no, no no, know I I I
don't have a girlfriend. I don't have a girlfriend. I'm single,
(20:04):
you know. And and I was like, oh, you know.
He's like, yeah, I'm I'm in love with Jennifer Gardner
and I love her. He's the love of my life
and that's like who I want to be with. And
I was like, okay, and I know, and I knew
in my mind. I was like, oh wow, this is um,
this is deep. And I remember in that moment feeling
like I needed to protect him from how I could be.
(20:28):
And I felt in this immediate like I knew, I
heard myself in my head just be like you have
to be good right now, Leah. You can't be brass
and you can't be hard. You know, you can't push,
and you can't be like, oh, you don't like Jennifer
Gartner like you know, of course, yeah, you just want
(20:48):
to you want to be Jennifer Gardner. I just at
that time, but I remember feeling this extreme, this in
immediate protection to protect him, but also to check myself
and and I never once asked him if he was gay.
I just in that moment, I was like this, I
(21:11):
just have to respect him in this moment and go
along with him, and follow along with Jonathan and his
comfort level, and and I'll just sleep fine. But honestly
not to get weepy yet, although I have already cried, um,
because of that moment of precious truth and respect that
(21:39):
you knew not to betray with your natural enthusiasm and
you're no bullshit way that you knew that he was
figuring it out, and whether or not you knew it
the old adages you don't know it until you know it,
(22:00):
and that you had to give him that space and
that level of trust and respect for somebody else's process
is honestly the greatest good friend, um attribute because obviously
people are going to listen to this and be like
(22:21):
thinking about their friends. And I think recognizing something in
someone and not forced feeding it into them and letting
them loving them through it is really what happened, is
you loved him through it and at whatever point, which
(22:41):
is none of my business, um Um. It might be
some other investigative journalists business who would be like dig
and deep wanting to know what that moment was. I'm
not that person, but restaurante on the corner ninth and
he sat me down and appropriately, I guess and the um,
(23:06):
my roomies are just my roommate. I'm gay, but I'm
not going to go beyond like a gay Pride float
or anything like that. And then literally six months later
he was on an actual float. Yes, yes, five years later,
but close. Yes. So it was so beautiful and we
were actually going that night to see Spring Awakening together
(23:28):
for the first time after seeing the show, and it
was a simple moment and it didn't have some long, dramatic,
deep thing. It was like someone just said, you know,
it was I feel like at that point our friendship
was so beyond what Jonathan's sexual preferences. It's it just
(23:50):
at that point it was like, you know, um, I
knew I know Jonathan and every cell, every bit of him,
and you know, it's so it was just, um, you know,
I was so happy that he just in his life
was there. As far as telling me, um, and you're
(24:13):
and jail c slash mommy, you're you're so right to say,
like I want to, I want to back you up
on that thing of Leah really gave me the greatest
gift for because that moment did happen, but it was
two years later. But that such a gift and we
(24:35):
and we had we were doing this show where, you know,
in the midst of myself trying to come to terms
with who I was and and kind of compartmentalizing who
I was in my apartment and being with my boyfriend
but us being completely closeted, and then coming to the
theater there it was. It was so complet lex to
(25:01):
fall in love with Leah every night and and really
feel love. I mean, and this is our this is
this is like the complexity I think of relationships as
well that I was also trying to kind of figure
out and play out. And the show kind of gives
any kid that ever does Spring Awakening the opportunity to
play off these feelings and emotions. It's the great gift
(25:23):
of that show being created is to give you know,
young adults complex materials to work through what they're feeling.
But I would you know, Leah and I had real
love for each other, and because of what we got
to do in that show, we fell in love and
we we we bonded and we connected and sort of
(25:44):
like what you were saying, Leah, that like, by the
time I came out to you, you knew me so
intimately that it was almost like I knew that you
knew that I knew. But we had this thing that
we were also experiencing with each other that was so
profound and so deep and so meaningful and so unique
(26:07):
to us that there was it was like the coming
out wasn't like, um, and now I'm out and now
we can be friends. It was like I came out,
but it was an acknowledgement of the gift that she
had given me for the last two years to explore
and to be complicated and to not be defined by
(26:28):
one thing, which is like the best, the best gift
of friend can ever give you is to let you
be whoever you are at whatever moment you are, and
feel freedom to be multiple things at one time. Okay,
just so you know, that's what we will call the
poll quote for the like that will be just so
(26:50):
you know, that will be on Instagram. What you just said,
that distillation of what a friend is will be the
poll quote. I'm saying you could leave now something I'll
get if I'm a good friend We'll be right back
with more good friend after this quick break. Don't have
(27:20):
you guys ever gotten in a big fight? Oh yeah,
that's separated, that gave you some distance from each other
kind of fight or just a fight that needed to
get worked out in the moment. Well, okay, I want
to just say one thing very I want to talk
about the fight. I want to say one thing to
go really quickly. And you know the thing is that
(27:41):
we were just what we were just talking about two
And you know, Jonathan and I have had so many
um lives together. We were in Spring Awakening together, and
then because of Jonathan, they wrote Glee for Jonathan and
I to play Finn and Rachel together, Jonathan and up
coming back on later in the show and play another character.
We did that show together. We've had lots of different
(28:03):
lives together, and um, in my worst moment of life,
Jonathan was by my side for months and he came
to live with me. And it's interesting because I don't
even think of him being there for me in that
moment that was the biggest moment. As much as I
think of these little moments that we had together, and
(28:25):
these these little moments in time that could have changed
so many different things, So the meaning of a friend
I'm actually just trying to get the quote here. I'm trying,
But what I'm saying is it's the big moment, but
it's also those little things along the way in our
friendship that even surpassed the the being there for each
(28:47):
other in the in the biggest moments. Um. But back
to the fights. I was just curious. I've loved it.
I've not had you know, this experience. I well, I
could tell you too of our the only two fights
we've ever had. And by the way, I'm not looking
to break you guys up and have you getten some
(29:07):
big fight. These are strangers and they are taking from this,
hopefully some insights about good friends. But you know, you
can share in a general way. Maybe your fight I
don't want to know. I think that they were always
me being dramatic and ridiculous, you know. I I just
(29:30):
if I could be more like Jonathan with his kindness
and patience. Um I I mean, I'm sure a lot
of people are like, how does he put up with you?
And how does he deal with you? Because he's the
most loving, kind, generous person who has more friends than
(29:53):
you know the whole world. It's like, talk about the fights,
talk about the fights. I. I actually thought she was
going to break into song there for a minute, I I.
And by the way, I did not invite you to
on to sing. I' comrad to see you again. Yes,
(30:16):
we had an argument because Jonathan was nominated for a
Tony Award and I did not get a Tony Award combination.
And I was very upset, and it's the eternal debate
amongst the two of us that he didn't call me
that morning, and he says he did call me, and UM,
I was very upset because I just I just thought
(30:38):
I would hear from him when I didn't get the nomination,
even though UM a huge incredible moment and morning for
him of being nominated for his first Tony Award, I
was very upset that he didn't call me. Um. Although
he says that he did call me. This is and see,
I'm sorry, this is really going to break us up.
(31:00):
Else I'm starting this, you're starting that now. I'm starting
to feel it's starting to be like, wait a second,
that's not what I said. I'm starting to get into
that mode. And this really is. It's so funny because
this comes up, I would say probably twice a year.
This is the fight that will just always be the fight.
Cool fight though. The date you were nominated for a
(31:21):
Tony Leah, okay, the night before, I'm going to take
it back a little bit to call me the night
thank you, but the night before. But I think this
is a cute detail. There was this there's the actors.
Is it called the Actor's Chapel that's across the street
from the Eugene O'Neill Theater. Yes, it's on forty nine
(31:43):
between eighth and ninth. It's a beautiful church that is
so wonderful and diverse and opens its stores to every
It's just it's an amazing and they would play there's
no business like show business every day at half hour,
yeah before and so every day we would hear the
chimes of this church. So yeah, so this is so
this particular night. It's before the Tonys were what two
(32:06):
years old, you're one years old, you might be twenty.
Yet we're like, oh, you know, we want so badly
to get nominated for the Tony's and you know, and
we take um offerings in our costumes. So this quick
little break during the show and when we were not
on stage and in our costumes. We would leave the
(32:28):
theater while the show was going on, and we would
we ran across the street to this church and I
was like, we have to pray to nominate for Tony's.
I brought like five dollars and John brought fifty. And
then I'm like, I'll never forgetting putting the money in
(32:55):
the best and I was like, wait a second, and anyways,
he gave a lot of money, and and Leah said
to me that night, she was like, you know what,
Because Leah loves to plan, and she loves especially when
things are like very heightened, you know, and then it's
a lot of emotions or whatever. The way that she
(33:16):
deals with that is by being like, Okay, here's what's
going to happen. If it goes this way, this is
what I'm gonna do, and if it goes this way,
this is what I'm gonna do. And she's sort of
like creates a schedule of how she'll handle whatever outcome.
Is that correct? I would say that's kind of correct, yes,
And so that night she was like, if tomorrow morning
(33:38):
when my mom and I wait, I said, your mom
was staying at your house that night. My brother was
staying at my apartment, me and Cody's apartment that night,
and she was like, I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna
watch you with my mom. And if I don't get
a nomination, I'm just going to turn off my phone
and I'm gonna go shopping and just pretend like nothing happened.
(33:59):
And is away we go. And I was like, okay,
so when and and I what I remember. It's so
funny that we're walking through the detest. This I remember,
it's so funny. So I remember I was like, Okay,
she doesn't get nominated. The que is this is also
(34:21):
my sort of level of ignorance at that age of
you know, the queue that I take is it doesn't happen.
She wants to pretend like it doesn't exist. Great, got it,
That's what I thought in my in my mind. The
discrepancy that I don't remember, but Leah remembers is that
she called me and left me a message to say, congratulations,
(34:45):
you're nominated for Tony. That's so great. On my side,
I don't recall the voice smell Leah is like I
called the next night, is like I called you, and
you didn't call me back, and I was like, I
didn't get your voicemail. And that was where that is
(35:06):
like the the discrepancy, like the thing that we'll never
know in the lure of our friendship, make love in
the show together multiple times, and here I am like,
he's kissing me, and I'm like not looking at him. Oh, yes,
I forgot about Oh my gosh, yes, that's the best part,
having like a fight but still making love. But I
(35:28):
wouldn't look at him. And it was a very short
lived argument. And uh and but again I stand by
the fact that as a uh, you know, an iconic
theater couple, you know, performers, this is the most beautiful
um fight to ever have. Based on Tony nominations, I
(35:49):
I I forgot. That's the best part is that coming
to the theater the next night and I was like
Hiliah and she was like just like not not talking
to me. And then an intermission I came into your
dressing room and I burst into tears and I was like,
(36:11):
why are you looking at me? This should be a
celebratory moment. We did this together. And then you were
like I called you and you never called me. And
then we were lasted a day and was the show nominated. Also,
we wont eight Tony Awards. Yes you did, but you didn't,
(36:32):
Leah Ne Okay, that's what we call a good friend. See,
I knew I needed to do this exactly. This is
the moment. Wow, that's such a story. I just you know,
it's funny because we all have our way. This is
apropos of nothing, obviously and has nothing to do with friendship,
(36:55):
but we all have our way of responding to stress
and anger and feelings. And Leah and I think are
very similar people. And it's funny because when I'm mad,
I can't look at somebody, and for me, it's that
pretending they don't exist, and that for me, not looking
(37:15):
at you means you're invisible. Like I'm i am everything,
I'm tactile, and i'm i'm hands and I'm but like
all of my senses are like super attuned. But when
I'm angry, because I can't use my words, what happens
is I shut down. Shutting down is to say you
(37:37):
don't exist. I will pretend, and it's a little it's
it's I will pretend that I'm here alone, and you know,
I'll reach by I mean, obviously we're talking about my husband.
Am I in relationship with for thirties six years? Got you? Um? Yeah,
(37:59):
I know, married six just not even have a moment
of appreciation for Jamie Lee Curtis at the Golden Globes
strutting in in that yellow dress. I think I saw,
um someone posted something on Instagram and if I could
have the confidence of Jamie Lee Curtis walking on the
(38:21):
stage one minute in my life that things would be better.
And I just I've never been more proud to be
your friend or to just in that moment. I mean,
I was staring at your breast the whole time. I
wanted to lay my head on this. Okay, well the
(38:43):
really good news is mommy there. Yeah, thank you. That's
very sweet of you. Um. Yes, I was talking about
my husband and obviously I you know, I just I
don't do well with that. And that's why I asked
about friend fights, because you know, when you're when you're
on a podcast talking about good friendship, it it has
(39:08):
to come up because people can't be like, oh, yeah,
we've never had a disagreement and you just go will it?
How is that possible? And so the older I get
and the more sober I am, and all of a sudden,
the feelings that used to scare the heck out of
me and make me feel like if I ever had
(39:28):
feelings that it would kill me, and I now know
that isn't the case. So for me, it's just interesting
because of of your friendship and wondering. That's just an amazing,
amazing story. And I feel like one of the things
that I learned to about Leah in that moment that
that I hold on to is that this this quality
(39:51):
of planning as the friend of the person that plans,
understanding that the and the planning is a therapeutic way
to deal with stress and to deal with emotion, and
it's can be an incredibly healthy and productive way to
handle whatever uncertainty is happening in the moment. It does
(40:15):
not mean that these plans are the plans that will
happen when the next day comes that but this was
such a good lesson to learn of, Like, Okay, we're
planning something out for ourselves right now, but this may
not be the but when the moment actually comes, the
moment itself may require exactly what the plan was, or
(40:37):
it may require something completely different. And so having perspective
and sort of malleability in that in that plan is
something that I then always took with me in in
in every relationship after that. But I think that also
like the the the an interesting thing that happened in
(40:59):
our friendship that I think was essential is we were
together simulating sex so close, like sweating on each other
like like we would we we like like if I
can say, just to speak one more time about this
period of spring awakening, we would like like like wrestle,
(41:21):
we would bully like like we would like pin each
other down and like physical with each other and were
very confused by because it was I'm sorry to interrupt you, John, Uh,
it was very physical like we were we were so um,
I don't, I mean, you're You're way more eloquent than I.
(41:42):
Please keeps no no. And I remember, like I remember
Naya on what when we were like in rehearsal one
day drink clee. She was like, there's no way the
two of you are her asked or whatever. We just
had this like but we weren't but we but we had.
What we had. It was the most like incestuous close,
(42:03):
like it was so raw that I really think that
One of the one great moment of transition that happened
sort of organically kind of um when I think back
in retrospect, is we had some distance and it was
sort of like being in college or something together and
(42:23):
then being a part and we had this kind of
moment where Leah moved to l A and I was
staying in New York, and it was really in retrospect now,
it wasn't even occurring to me in the moment, but
it was so good for our friendship because we were
so we were almost too close with the level of
(42:44):
closeness couldn't sustain relationships. And so when we had this
physical distance that sort of just happened because of your
career and Lee and all of that, it created space
that I think is really important in in all relationships.
But in perspective, it helped us some. It helped our
(43:06):
relationship mature a lot too, because you know, like Jonathan said,
we we had this very college like experience in Spring
Awakening where we were so so intertwined morning in and night,
working together, going home with each other, spending the days together,
our families became good friends. We would spend weekends together,
days off everything, and then we had this distance, and
(43:29):
we um grew up, and Jonathan's career, you know, blew up,
and and and my career you know blew up, and
it was like, uh, you know, but the distance forced
us to maintain that level of friendship. And I think
that that's also when you really know who is meant
to stay in your life. It's like when life changes
(43:50):
and when there's distance, do you keep you know, in
contact with the part, do you do keep that level
of we we did, and it helped us kind of sure, Um,
but it also forced us to maintain the relationship with
all these other things happening, you know, in in life.
And then our relationship went from this. So I can
(44:15):
kind of compare it when we were in Spring Awakening.
It is like when two people are young people fall
in love and it's like that lust, like just that
like I am upset. It was deeper than lust, um,
but it was like that so obsessive I love you.
And then when we were on Glee together and then,
(44:35):
you know, especially when like Corey passed, Um, our friendship
became that grounded two soul mates, just that like a
real beyond the wrestling and the you know, it just
turned into something that is life long, not that it
(44:59):
wasn't in Awakening, but it took on a level of
maturity and deepness and just like I can now go
you know, and see him when I see him or whatever,
and it's like there is a connection to Jonathan that
is Um, they will never go away. Now it just
became like cemented. I know I'll get if I'm a
(45:24):
good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend
after this quick break, so stick around. I don't I
know I'll get if I'm a good friend. I don't know.
You know all of the planning that you and by
the way, and I share, but I you know, that's
(45:48):
part of in friendships. I'm not great at telling people
what I feel about I'm I struggle, honestly with with
words about it. I find writing letters very challenging. I
have It's like a weird thing with my mother. My
mother used to write letters, but I didn't believe them,
and so it felt like words are cheap and actions
(46:10):
speak louder. Actions speak louder, and so I am a
woman of action. UM, and my hope is that my
action speaks louder than the words that I could possibly
put together. Um. And at the same time of all
of that planning, Uh, life happens and Uh there's a
(46:31):
book and I've mentioned it on this podcast before and
but it's important to me. It's a book called Special
Topics and Calamity Physics, which is a novel by Marichia Pessel.
It's just a terrific novel, mystery novel if you're looking
for a great book. But in the middle of it,
she talks, the main character talks about, you know, life
is supposed to be, Um, what you plan? You know,
(46:54):
you where you go to school, what happens your first job,
dead dead and the dead end? Then you meet eat
and you do spring awake, and like that's how it's
supposed to go. And she says it isn't you know?
She says life hinges on a couple of seconds you
never see coming, and what you decide and do in
(47:15):
those seconds determines everything from then on. And you won't
know what you're going to do until you're there. And
I remember when I read that and then thought back
to my life and the very hard things, really hard,
(47:35):
horrible things that have happened that I never saw coming,
but that transformed my life because of the way I
responded to them, and that's kind of what you were
just saying, Mom, was that moment for you of such
grief and so, I mean, addicts, it's hard not to,
(47:58):
you know, understand that they're on a on a dangerous path,
let's say. But no matter what, you still don't see
it coming. And you know, I knew you guys were friends,
and obviously that takes it from as you said, the
sort of wrestling kind of energy together and really becomes
(48:24):
so human. It's just such a human experience to go
through together. And you know, the way you spoke of
Mom was really very moving. Um, that's why I popped
in my head. Um. And then of course children, I love.
I love the woman who's planning this and that. And
(48:45):
I just kept sitting back here like, yeah, you just
had a kid. Yeah, and I see everything is white. Okay,
wait wait. I love all my friends who have children,
and their palates are you know, kind of wide and
crew and I love it. And I cannot wait for
the day that they bring home a Fisher Price plastic
(49:10):
box that's bright yellow, red green, and that they dragon
and like, mommy, mommy, look I got I love I Minuto,
I love manu JOI and you're just shaking because it's
so not gonna work. No, I'm there already, I meanterly.
(49:32):
My like I my pediatrition was like, you should just
clean the baby at the beginning of the feeding and
the end of the feeding. You don't have to clean
through up the meal. Because I was like, Okay, when
you have a fifteen year long friendship, now you go
(49:53):
through um, breakups, lost success. Um. I got married. Jonathan
was there for my wedding. Uh. I never thought I
would have a pregnancy that he wasn't by my side
for the entire time, but because of COVID we were separated. Um.
But then you know, the minute that I was able
(50:14):
to get to the East Coast and see Jonathan, the
quarantined got multiple tests and we're able to see each other.
And I hadn't seen john in probably a year. The
last time I saw Jonathan was we had just filmed
the Jimmy Fallon Show together. We went out for dinner
(50:36):
that night, had many a cocktail together, and I woke
up the next morning and took a pregnancy test and
found out I was PREGNANTY. I hadn't seen him for
an entire year and he walked in the door of
the nursery and I was breastfeeding my son, and it
was so weird because Jonathan has seen me without clothes
(50:59):
on more of times maybe than my husband, um, and
and like I just remember feeling like uncomfortable and like
a little nervous um and also like like when did
we grow up? And did it happen? And and it
(51:19):
was it was we. I have these sort of like
these moments that flash in front of my eyes with
Jonathan and I, I would say, like the first time
we met winning the Tony's first Spring Awakening and this
you know, I ended up visiting him in Los Angeles, um,
which is a wild story of fate, and that's how
(51:40):
I met Ryan Murphy and that's how Glee was created.
So I have these flashes of moments in time in
our relationship, and then that moment of him walking in
with the breast even though I was like, this is
my son, and like, it was so intense. It was
really intense, filled with a lot of emotions that I'm
(52:02):
still just processed. Yeah, of course you are. And do
you remember that, mom and Jonathan ord right, Yeah, I cried.
I just walked in and felt overcome with emotion seeing her,
and and then I sat on the floor at your
feet and just it was like trying to compute. I
(52:24):
felt simplearly. Only other time I felt the say he
was with my brother when he had his first child.
Feeling like, Okay, you're a parent, You're a parent, You're
a parent. This is, on one hand, feels like the
most natural. And and Leah is such a mom's mom.
(52:47):
She's such a mom, has always been. I always knew
that when she had a kid, and since the day
I met you, has always talked about winning a child.
Mama Who Bore Me was the first song she sings
that spring away to ing. It was like, obviously always
at the front of every conversation we had throughout the years,
what it would be like this guy you're dating, but
(53:08):
is he the father of your children? You know, there's
always the conversation about the kids and the family and
will this be the debt? Will this be the dad?
You know, we're kind of looking for like the real dad,
not even necessarily the husband, but like who's the dad
because it's always been a means to an end for
the kid, and now here is that is the child?
And so it feels natural, and yet it feels so
(53:32):
strange to compute, like everything is different, everything is different,
like everything now is as it it makes so much sense,
and you really feel like before this and after this,
like as many things as we experience, ties and lows
and grief and success, this to me is like even
(53:54):
like wedding. Yes, but it's like boom, all of a sudden,
there is a there is a human being in the room.
And now to me, that's at least what I felt like.
Now everything is different. It was of course many different evolutions,
and this is now the whole beginning of an entirely new,
(54:16):
an entirely new experience, and I feel like so excited
to be the gay uncle ever. Well. And I spoke
to my friend Naomi Phoner yesterday and she is the
parent of Maggie and Jake jollen holl and I am
the non gayther of um of her kids, even though
(54:40):
it's not an official god parent position, but apparently it
is according to the internet. UM. I believe, I believe
everything that I read on the internet. UM. But the
reason I bring it up is that the reason I
brought that up is because I've become friends with Maggie
and Jake separate, and so what I was thinking of
(55:05):
possibility for you that you will actually be able to
be a good friend to ever to ever in your
own relationship, not just in the connect the dot back
to to mom. And I hope for you that you
(55:26):
get that because the friendships I have made now as
an adult with the adult children of my friends separate
from their parents has been really uh An added, is
the whole idea spring awakening. We want to spring is
(55:47):
about renewal and growth and change and death and life,
and um, that is what you hope. I will tell you.
It's such a wonderful way of looking at a friendship.
And I am beyond grateful to the two of you,
and I'm not and I do not want. But it's
(56:08):
funny because, um, I you know this show was born
from a song. I don't know if you had a
chance to listen to the song it's on your email.
Loved it so good. That is literally the birth of
this show was me hearing that song, going, oh, um,
I love I love her anyway. I've always um and
(56:29):
you know I've been listening to you know, I do
listen to show tunes, and I you know, there are
so many songs about friendship, and I was listening. I
don't know if you've heard it recently, and if you haven't,
I'm going to urge everybody to listen to it. Easy
to be hard from here, Lynn Kellogg Jonathan knows, Okay,
(56:50):
I'm I'm obsessed with it, you know, because how can
they ignore their friends? I mean, I just I sob
and I've been listening to it on repeat, doing these
podcasts and you know, at home, I'm just so it's
funny because here I have two people and just so
you know, I can't sing. Um. I can do many things.
(57:11):
I could build a house. I if you want me
to build a house, I could build a house. I
can do almost anything. I never thought I would do
any of the things I do, ever, and I do
them all, and I do them well. And that's just
my gift. I just sort of say, oh you need that, Okay,
I can do that, and boom, we're doing it. We're
(57:31):
doing this right now. Never in a billion years would
I have thought of doing this, and now I'm doing it.
But the one thing I cannot do is sing, and
and I I'm telling you I can not sing. So
the idea that I am talking to the two of you,
two people who both I admire as friends, I admire
(57:52):
for your art. Man, I mean, I just it's such
a gift. Thank you so much for doing this. You've
You've made a beautiful episode of the good Friend podcast,
and anybody listening, stay safe, God bless you and whatever. Bye,
Thank you for having guess. Good Friend is produced by
(58:23):
Dylan Fagin and is a production of I Heart Radio.
Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced, and performed
by Emily King. Unlogative from a good Friend, Don't Already
(58:48):
From a good Friend. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
If there's something I'll get if I'm a good friend. Hi, everybody,
it's Jamie Lee Curtis. You're listening to the Good Friend Podcast,
presented to you by I Heart Radio. It's a podcast
(00:22):
about friendship, sort of the good, the bad, and the ugly,
the triumphs of friendship, the immense connection and emotion of friendship,
the laughter and occasionally the tears. We explore it all
in an unscripted, very free form way with many, many
(00:42):
different guests, some I'm very close friends with, some I've
never met. And I hope that you will take away
from it something that connects you to your friends, and
that the ideas that we talk about can maybe be
taken into your own friendships. So sit back, or take
a walk, or however you listen. I hope you enjoy
(01:03):
it and stay tuned a good Friend. We've started rolling
on this podcast today, uh in an unexpected way, which
is perfect for me. Um. My guest right now is
Leah Michelle, and Leah was just discussing how her mother
(01:28):
ended up living with her for the year basically from
the moment she found out she was pregnant through the
birth of her son. So I just thought it was because,
by the way, there is no greater definition of the
word good friend than a mother who suits up and
shows up in partnership with their daughter. And I just
(01:52):
thought that was. You know, here we are talking about
good friends. But to me, that's the greatest, um sort
of designation of a friend. Um, so just tell me
more about what that was like to have your mom
there with you the whole man. Well, I think it was.
It was her greatest dream come true for sure. Um,
it was unexpected. And my mother and my mother's my
(02:16):
second to Jonathan, or not second to Jonathan equally, Jonathan
and my mother are my best friends. My my mother
is my best friend, and my mom and I have
had a very interesting relationship throughout the years. I think
that any mother and daughter relationship that sometimes can be
a little too ameshed can have its complications, um, as
(02:36):
you start to spread your wings as an as an adult.
But any girlfriend that I'd spoken to who might have
understood similar issues said, once you have a child or
once you get pregnant, that relationship with your mother just
amplifies more than you could even expect. And it did
just that I sort of understood my mother in a way.
(02:59):
I never had my whole life, and how she could
be there for me. I had an incredibly high risk pregnancy.
I was on um mandatory bed rest my entire first trimester,
and I had a many scares in my second trimester,
and how she rose to the occasion for me, it
(03:21):
was just incredible. Is Jonathan here now? He just arrived.
So so, Jonathan, you have now just entered the river.
You've you've you've jumped into a running river. Because Leah
was starting to discuss the pandemic and the isolation with
her mom that her mom has been with her, and
I realized that the best example of a good friend
(03:45):
really is a mother who suits up, shows up, sticks
by their child as they carry, deliver, and then care
for a child. And so we started recording Well it
just felt like such an organic, perfect way to talk
about it. And then um, she explained that really her
mother and you, Jonathan Groff, are her best friends. And
(04:09):
now you're here. It's just it's the way the Good
Friend Podcast. We just roll with it. Can you see me? Dad? Oh? Yeah,
can you see can you see him? No? I saw
him briefly, Um, yeah that and will tell you about that.
(04:30):
So if I don't think he's ever called me Leah.
And when he says Leah, but it feels like I'm
being scolded or something. Okay, so what I'm sorry? What
is your word for her? Jonathan? This is really funny
because it's it's in tune with the mother. As I'm
jumping into the river on the in the Mother discussion,
Leah and I call each other mom and dad. It started.
(04:55):
It started during spring weekening Remy's aching. One of the
cast members started calling us mom and dad because we,
I guess assumed the mother father figures in certain ways
with the with the cast, with the company. And then
now for fifteen years, we're calling each other mom and dad. Okay,
well I'm I'm hey mom, Mommy. By the way, my people,
(05:18):
if you ever see I will post something, I will say, well,
mommy is very happy Mommy of the Mommy is talking
to mom and dad. And by the way, this is
another Obviously, when I conceived the idea of doing a
podcast about friendship, um, something so crucial during this last
very challenging time in all of our lives, I you know,
(05:42):
obviously conceived it thinking Okay, I'll call it and I'll
call up you know, you just start thinking of the
friends that you have that you would call. And there
were people I reached out to who turned me down.
By the way, I'm just saying, here's my I'm going
to do my radio voice for a minute. I I
completely understand that people would turn me down. And honestly,
(06:06):
somebody said me, well, why would they do it? Like
who are you? Like? Really, who are you to why
would they turn you down? That's no, no, no. The opposite,
which is simply these are busy people. And you know,
it's that thing where I'm so enthusiastic in my heart
is so open that I'm just like a puppy. I'm like, yeah,
I mean, Leon knows I'm I'm a bit of a cheerleader.
(06:28):
So I'm like, come on, let's do it. Let's put
on a show together. And you know, I got a
couple of lovely, sort of respectful declines, and it was
it was really ego centering for me to go, oh right, right.
So anyway, the fact is there are some people that
(06:49):
I have never met on this podcast, and you are
my first stranger, and I'm and I love that our
strange meeting happened in the way it has with Leah
beginning to talk about being a new mom her mom,
(07:09):
I'm thrilled that the two of you have joined me.
Oh my gosh, I've said for so long because Jamie,
you've texted me about Jonathan for a while, you know,
when you watched Hamilton's and always like tell your friends
were you in Hamilton's. Oh wow, Well we'll have to
talk and we'll have to yeah briefly, yeah, but maybe memorably.
(07:31):
Maybe we'll talk about that um or maybe not um.
For the listener, Leah will be playing the part of
mom and Jonathan will be playing the part of dad,
and I will, I guess be mommy so super confused, sorry, Mom, continue.
I just I felt for a very long time that
(07:52):
wants you to meet. I know you will love each other,
like I just have had such a strong feeling I
have such a Jonathan for so long too, Like you
just have to meet Ja l C. And when you do, um,
I just know that you two will also become good friends. Well, hey,
(08:12):
thank you by the way, for the For the person
who's not watching, because this is a podcast, so you're listening. Leah,
just I mean, mom, just did the mom just did
the thing where you hold your hands up to your
face in that kind of poesy way. Um, because she
threw in the good friend, like, because she's a highly
paid professional. Branding is everything. You've got a brand and brand.
(08:41):
I'm grateful for your branding moment um. So Dad, I'm
not gonna I'm not gonna get over. It's just gonna
just get used to it, bab because mommy mommy, and
you know, we'll discuss the mommy of it all. So
is it true that you two did meet on the
(09:05):
Spring Awakenings of it All? Or did you know each
other before? No, we met at our audition first Spring Awakening.
I had done previous workshops of the show prior to
Jonathan joining the cast, and they were auditioning for you know,
his part, And um, here comes this boy from Lancaster,
(09:28):
Pennsylvania with more gel in should be legal one of
those um books that my son plays with that like
makes those I love, And you know how much I
(09:53):
love that book. I've been playing with with him with
that book right with the crinkly paper that makes crinkolicea
And of course he had a gelled quaff and and
I remember being in the audition with him and just
taking a liking to Jonathan and I couldn't have the
city mouse, he was the country mouse. And um, but
(10:14):
I just it's also a book series, by the way,
and I just refer saying to myself, like, oh, this
poor sweet boy from Lancaster, Pennsylvania, like I'm going to
help him and take him under my wing. And fast
forward fifteen years and he's in like the Matrix series
and he's been in every iconic hit for the past
(10:36):
ten years now. And Jonathan is just has rose to
such incredible stardom that he's so so deserves and you
fell to such horrible depths and it's such you know what. Honestly,
I felt like this was my way of kind of
pulling you up from from the bottom of your talent
(10:58):
pool and say come on, um, mom, you can do
it too, you know. Yeah, And but just by the way,
and um, for the listener, as you know, I am
not We're not here to sell things. Um, I'm here
(11:18):
to have a conversation. And you know, obviously people's work
is going to come up in it. But I need
to tell you something. I don't know how mom, I
saw a clip or it must have been a YouTube
thing or somebody sent me, so you know, how do
we get these things into our phones? Things arrive on
your phone, you go what and you click on it
(11:39):
and it was you doing a monologue from Scream Queens.
And for those who have not watched Scream Queens, which
I guess is available on some platform, the comic snark
that comes up this woman. It was so delightful to
(12:02):
behold this just wickedly funny um kind of I'm not
going to say, kind of totally deranged human um with
this kind of weird just it was a great performance,
but it it was so funny because I hadn't watched it. Obviously,
(12:24):
I don't sit around, you know. Can you imagine Chris
Guest with me going like, oh honey, I'm just watching screen.
I just started if like was born, so I thought
i'd watch my old mark. You can only imagine how
that would go in my house. Anyway, I was reminded
of that. I don't even know where I know, I
know right, because you were the dregs of your career
(12:46):
while Jonathan or while dad has risen um, so you
met and made did did the bond? I'm hearing a theme.
I wonder if you guys are going to add onto
it that when you met, you knew did did it
happen quickly or did it happen over a period of time.
I have I really remember of that audition for Spring Awakening,
(13:11):
and I remember Leah coming over and introducing herself, and
I felt incredibly intimidated because Leah had done three Broadway
shows I think at that point Lima's ragtime Fiddler, and
I was very green and she was very experienced. And
(13:32):
I remember, like we had to audition. We can get
into in a minute to just how intense the relationship
our relationship got because of the subject matter of Spring Awakening.
But in this audition, we had to do a scene
where we were I was beating her with a stick
and she I remember her at the audition before going in,
(13:52):
her saying, here's this pencil. Used this pencil as the prop,
but don't actually hit me with it. But what we're
doing the scene, you can. She was sort of like
helping me, and even at that stage and are the
very first day that we met, sort of saying, you know,
the director is gonna want to see this, but he's
not gonna want to see you hit me. But she
kind of was taking me by the hand and sort
of teaching me the ropes from the very first day
(14:14):
we met. And then the other first memory I have
is after our first day of rehearsal, on the way out,
her saying to me, just so you know, we're gonna
be lifelong friends. I could cry right now. I know
you know what do cry? By the way, this is
(14:36):
a crying site website. This is our podcast web this
what is it? It's a podcast? I know with this.
I'm a movie actress. So you know we're not on camera.
Nobody else see you cry, but they'll hear you. She
said that. She said, yeah, she took my hand and
she was like, just so you know, like we're gonna
be We're gonna be friends forever. And I remember feeling scared.
(14:57):
This is how I felt. I was like, I was like,
who is this person? Like how does she know? I
felt very green, Like she said, it was a country mouse,
city mouse. We were polar opposites. I was closeted, I
was not out of the class. I was gay. I
had a boyfriend who was my roommate. Leah was this
very kind of extremely talented, extremely professional, extremely outgoing, experienced
(15:25):
young person, and I was the total opposite. I had
some raw ability, but I had no finesse, and I
had no idea how things worked. Uh, and I was
not comfortable even in a very sort of like important way,
with who I was. And we spent the next two
years doing this incredibly intimate, sexual, emotional, deep show that
(15:53):
were like the the art of it, the acting of
it was incredibly challenging and incredibly difficult and then professional
We were nominated for awards and the show became really successful,
and we we rode this wave of success together. So
it was this work that was incredibly challenging and intimate
(16:14):
combined with this sort of life changing experience. The show
was for both of us, and so we were getting
this creative back kind we did. We do scenes where
we're like crying looking at each other and making out
with each other with tongue and dry humping each other.
And in my in my best man speech at Leah's wedding,
(16:34):
I had done the math and he was like, I
forget how many thousands of times we had simulated sex together.
It's a lot of times. And and all those things
combined created created this lifelong bond that that we then,
like now has grown and development and evolved. But from
that first day of rehearsal, Leah, as usual as she's
(16:58):
known to do, saw it and called it. She's really
good at doing that. Can I say something please, Although
I'm going to tell you one thing, I think this
will be the only podcast in history and we may
win an award for it where my guests discuss simulating
(17:21):
sex more than any other people in the history of
show business. In the best man speech, I think I
think in that very tiny category we have one. I
would dust off your you know, fancy suit because I
think we're going to that for most weird intimate share.
(17:46):
We haven't even started yet. Okay, well, but I think
we now know who the winner is, so I'm sorry, mom. Continue.
He also included in that speech that then when we
went on to work on Glee together, our characters got
married and had a baby together. So the stimulated sex
from Spring Awakening then grew into then actual baby and
(18:08):
on Glee. But we'll get into that. But I have
to say I have such a um, I have such
a specific memory with Jonathan groff Um of us. It
was very early into the rehearsal process of Spring awakening
and and for my memory, our relationship, it went from
zero to a million very quickly. I mean we were
(18:30):
working on stage together intimately all night, and then we
would go to each other's houses. I would go to
his apartment the minute the show was over. He would
take a long time at the stage door with signing
autographs and stuff, and I would I would go faster
and meet him at home and wait for him at
his apartment and wait for him to just be with
(18:52):
me after the show and sleep in his bed sometimes.
But I have this memory of a little earlier, at
just the beginning of our relationship. We went to the
moment I think to see some Edward Monk exhibit that
was there. And um, I have a very strong personality
that I know. That's the other big board winning revelation.
(19:20):
I got it out of her. Wow, I'm so excited.
That is not true, mom, It's an acquired taste. UM.
I remember early on, I knew that Jonathan was gay
(19:41):
and was in the closet, and I knew that his
roommate was not just his room. And I knew all
these things. You know, I lived in New York my
whole life, and um, and I remember asking him at
this museum. I was like, so, do you have like
a you know, girlfriend or boyfriend or something. And he
was like, no, no, no, no no, know I I I
don't have a girlfriend. I don't have a girlfriend. I'm single,
(20:04):
you know. And and I was like, oh, you know.
He's like, yeah, I'm I'm in love with Jennifer Gardner
and I love her. He's the love of my life
and that's like who I want to be with. And
I was like, okay, and I know, and I knew
in my mind. I was like, oh wow, this is um,
this is deep. And I remember in that moment feeling
like I needed to protect him from how I could be.
(20:28):
And I felt in this immediate like I knew, I
heard myself in my head just be like you have
to be good right now, Leah. You can't be brass
and you can't be hard. You know, you can't push,
and you can't be like, oh, you don't like Jennifer
Gartner like you know, of course, yeah, you just want
(20:48):
to you want to be Jennifer Gardner. I just at
that time, but I remember feeling this extreme, this in
immediate protection to protect him, but also to check myself
and and I never once asked him if he was gay.
I just in that moment, I was like this, I
(21:11):
just have to respect him in this moment and go
along with him, and follow along with Jonathan and his
comfort level, and and I'll just sleep fine. But honestly
not to get weepy yet, although I have already cried, um,
because of that moment of precious truth and respect that
(21:39):
you knew not to betray with your natural enthusiasm and
you're no bullshit way that you knew that he was
figuring it out, and whether or not you knew it
the old adages you don't know it until you know it,
(22:00):
and that you had to give him that space and
that level of trust and respect for somebody else's process
is honestly the greatest good friend, um attribute because obviously
people are going to listen to this and be like
(22:21):
thinking about their friends. And I think recognizing something in
someone and not forced feeding it into them and letting
them loving them through it is really what happened, is
you loved him through it and at whatever point, which
(22:41):
is none of my business, um Um. It might be
some other investigative journalists business who would be like dig
and deep wanting to know what that moment was. I'm
not that person, but restaurante on the corner ninth and
he sat me down and appropriately, I guess and the um,
(23:06):
my roomies are just my roommate. I'm gay, but I'm
not going to go beyond like a gay Pride float
or anything like that. And then literally six months later
he was on an actual float. Yes, yes, five years later,
but close. Yes. So it was so beautiful and we
were actually going that night to see Spring Awakening together
(23:28):
for the first time after seeing the show, and it
was a simple moment and it didn't have some long, dramatic,
deep thing. It was like someone just said, you know,
it was I feel like at that point our friendship
was so beyond what Jonathan's sexual preferences. It's it just
(23:50):
at that point it was like, you know, um, I
knew I know Jonathan and every cell, every bit of him,
and you know, it's so it was just, um, you know,
I was so happy that he just in his life
was there. As far as telling me, um, and you're
(24:13):
and jail c slash mommy, you're you're so right to say,
like I want to, I want to back you up
on that thing of Leah really gave me the greatest
gift for because that moment did happen, but it was
two years later. But that such a gift and we
(24:35):
and we had we were doing this show where, you know,
in the midst of myself trying to come to terms
with who I was and and kind of compartmentalizing who
I was in my apartment and being with my boyfriend
but us being completely closeted, and then coming to the
theater there it was. It was so complet lex to
(25:01):
fall in love with Leah every night and and really
feel love. I mean, and this is our this is
this is like the complexity I think of relationships as
well that I was also trying to kind of figure
out and play out. And the show kind of gives
any kid that ever does Spring Awakening the opportunity to
play off these feelings and emotions. It's the great gift
(25:23):
of that show being created is to give you know,
young adults complex materials to work through what they're feeling.
But I would you know, Leah and I had real
love for each other, and because of what we got
to do in that show, we fell in love and
we we we bonded and we connected and sort of
(25:44):
like what you were saying, Leah, that like, by the
time I came out to you, you knew me so
intimately that it was almost like I knew that you
knew that I knew. But we had this thing that
we were also experiencing with each other that was so
profound and so deep and so meaningful and so unique
(26:07):
to us that there was it was like the coming
out wasn't like, um, and now I'm out and now
we can be friends. It was like I came out,
but it was an acknowledgement of the gift that she
had given me for the last two years to explore
and to be complicated and to not be defined by
(26:28):
one thing, which is like the best, the best gift
of friend can ever give you is to let you
be whoever you are at whatever moment you are, and
feel freedom to be multiple things at one time. Okay,
just so you know, that's what we will call the
poll quote for the like that will be just so
(26:50):
you know, that will be on Instagram. What you just said,
that distillation of what a friend is will be the
poll quote. I'm saying you could leave now something I'll
get if I'm a good friend We'll be right back
with more good friend after this quick break. Don't have
(27:20):
you guys ever gotten in a big fight? Oh yeah,
that's separated, that gave you some distance from each other
kind of fight or just a fight that needed to
get worked out in the moment. Well, okay, I want
to just say one thing very I want to talk
about the fight. I want to say one thing to
go really quickly. And you know the thing is that
(27:41):
we were just what we were just talking about two
And you know, Jonathan and I have had so many
um lives together. We were in Spring Awakening together, and
then because of Jonathan, they wrote Glee for Jonathan and
I to play Finn and Rachel together, Jonathan and up
coming back on later in the show and play another character.
We did that show together. We've had lots of different
(28:03):
lives together, and um, in my worst moment of life,
Jonathan was by my side for months and he came
to live with me. And it's interesting because I don't
even think of him being there for me in that
moment that was the biggest moment. As much as I
think of these little moments that we had together, and
(28:25):
these these little moments in time that could have changed
so many different things, So the meaning of a friend
I'm actually just trying to get the quote here. I'm trying,
But what I'm saying is it's the big moment, but
it's also those little things along the way in our
friendship that even surpassed the the being there for each
(28:47):
other in the in the biggest moments. Um. But back
to the fights. I was just curious. I've loved it.
I've not had you know, this experience. I well, I
could tell you too of our the only two fights
we've ever had. And by the way, I'm not looking
to break you guys up and have you getten some
(29:07):
big fight. These are strangers and they are taking from this,
hopefully some insights about good friends. But you know, you
can share in a general way. Maybe your fight I
don't want to know. I think that they were always
me being dramatic and ridiculous, you know. I I just
(29:30):
if I could be more like Jonathan with his kindness
and patience. Um I I mean, I'm sure a lot
of people are like, how does he put up with you?
And how does he deal with you? Because he's the
most loving, kind, generous person who has more friends than
(29:53):
you know the whole world. It's like, talk about the fights,
talk about the fights. I. I actually thought she was
going to break into song there for a minute, I I.
And by the way, I did not invite you to
on to sing. I' comrad to see you again. Yes,
(30:16):
we had an argument because Jonathan was nominated for a
Tony Award and I did not get a Tony Award combination.
And I was very upset, and it's the eternal debate
amongst the two of us that he didn't call me
that morning, and he says he did call me, and UM,
I was very upset because I just I just thought
(30:38):
I would hear from him when I didn't get the nomination,
even though UM a huge incredible moment and morning for
him of being nominated for his first Tony Award, I
was very upset that he didn't call me. Um. Although
he says that he did call me. This is and see,
I'm sorry, this is really going to break us up.
(31:00):
Else I'm starting this, you're starting that now. I'm starting
to feel it's starting to be like, wait a second,
that's not what I said. I'm starting to get into
that mode. And this really is. It's so funny because
this comes up, I would say probably twice a year.
This is the fight that will just always be the fight.
Cool fight though. The date you were nominated for a
(31:21):
Tony Leah, okay, the night before, I'm going to take
it back a little bit to call me the night
thank you, but the night before. But I think this
is a cute detail. There was this there's the actors.
Is it called the Actor's Chapel that's across the street
from the Eugene O'Neill Theater. Yes, it's on forty nine
(31:43):
between eighth and ninth. It's a beautiful church that is
so wonderful and diverse and opens its stores to every
It's just it's an amazing and they would play there's
no business like show business every day at half hour,
yeah before and so every day we would hear the
chimes of this church. So yeah, so this is so
this particular night. It's before the Tonys were what two
(32:06):
years old, you're one years old, you might be twenty.
Yet we're like, oh, you know, we want so badly
to get nominated for the Tony's and you know, and
we take um offerings in our costumes. So this quick
little break during the show and when we were not
on stage and in our costumes. We would leave the
(32:28):
theater while the show was going on, and we would
we ran across the street to this church and I
was like, we have to pray to nominate for Tony's.
I brought like five dollars and John brought fifty. And
then I'm like, I'll never forgetting putting the money in
(32:55):
the best and I was like, wait a second, and anyways,
he gave a lot of money, and and Leah said
to me that night, she was like, you know what,
Because Leah loves to plan, and she loves especially when
things are like very heightened, you know, and then it's
a lot of emotions or whatever. The way that she
(33:16):
deals with that is by being like, Okay, here's what's
going to happen. If it goes this way, this is
what I'm gonna do, and if it goes this way,
this is what I'm gonna do. And she's sort of
like creates a schedule of how she'll handle whatever outcome.
Is that correct? I would say that's kind of correct, yes,
And so that night she was like, if tomorrow morning
(33:38):
when my mom and I wait, I said, your mom
was staying at your house that night. My brother was
staying at my apartment, me and Cody's apartment that night,
and she was like, I'm gonna wake up, I'm gonna
watch you with my mom. And if I don't get
a nomination, I'm just going to turn off my phone
and I'm gonna go shopping and just pretend like nothing happened.
(33:59):
And is away we go. And I was like, okay,
so when and and I what I remember. It's so
funny that we're walking through the detest. This I remember,
it's so funny. So I remember I was like, Okay,
she doesn't get nominated. The que is this is also
(34:21):
my sort of level of ignorance at that age of
you know, the queue that I take is it doesn't happen.
She wants to pretend like it doesn't exist. Great, got it,
That's what I thought in my in my mind. The
discrepancy that I don't remember, but Leah remembers is that
she called me and left me a message to say, congratulations,
(34:45):
you're nominated for Tony. That's so great. On my side,
I don't recall the voice smell Leah is like I
called the next night, is like I called you, and
you didn't call me back, and I was like, I
didn't get your voicemail. And that was where that is
(35:06):
like the the discrepancy, like the thing that we'll never
know in the lure of our friendship, make love in
the show together multiple times, and here I am like,
he's kissing me, and I'm like not looking at him. Oh, yes,
I forgot about Oh my gosh, yes, that's the best part,
having like a fight but still making love. But I
(35:28):
wouldn't look at him. And it was a very short
lived argument. And uh and but again I stand by
the fact that as a uh, you know, an iconic
theater couple, you know, performers, this is the most beautiful
um fight to ever have. Based on Tony nominations, I
(35:49):
I I forgot. That's the best part is that coming
to the theater the next night and I was like
Hiliah and she was like just like not not talking
to me. And then an intermission I came into your
dressing room and I burst into tears and I was like,
(36:11):
why are you looking at me? This should be a
celebratory moment. We did this together. And then you were
like I called you and you never called me. And
then we were lasted a day and was the show nominated. Also,
we wont eight Tony Awards. Yes you did, but you didn't,
(36:32):
Leah Ne Okay, that's what we call a good friend. See,
I knew I needed to do this exactly. This is
the moment. Wow, that's such a story. I just you know,
it's funny because we all have our way. This is
apropos of nothing, obviously and has nothing to do with friendship,
(36:55):
but we all have our way of responding to stress
and anger and feelings. And Leah and I think are
very similar people. And it's funny because when I'm mad,
I can't look at somebody, and for me, it's that
pretending they don't exist, and that for me, not looking
(37:15):
at you means you're invisible. Like I'm i am everything,
I'm tactile, and i'm i'm hands and I'm but like
all of my senses are like super attuned. But when
I'm angry, because I can't use my words, what happens
is I shut down. Shutting down is to say you
(37:37):
don't exist. I will pretend, and it's a little it's
it's I will pretend that I'm here alone, and you know,
I'll reach by I mean, obviously we're talking about my husband.
Am I in relationship with for thirties six years? Got you? Um? Yeah,
(37:59):
I know, married six just not even have a moment
of appreciation for Jamie Lee Curtis at the Golden Globes
strutting in in that yellow dress. I think I saw,
um someone posted something on Instagram and if I could
have the confidence of Jamie Lee Curtis walking on the
(38:21):
stage one minute in my life that things would be better.
And I just I've never been more proud to be
your friend or to just in that moment. I mean,
I was staring at your breast the whole time. I
wanted to lay my head on this. Okay, well the
(38:43):
really good news is mommy there. Yeah, thank you. That's
very sweet of you. Um. Yes, I was talking about
my husband and obviously I you know, I just I
don't do well with that. And that's why I asked
about friend fights, because you know, when you're when you're
on a podcast talking about good friendship, it it has
(39:08):
to come up because people can't be like, oh, yeah,
we've never had a disagreement and you just go will it?
How is that possible? And so the older I get
and the more sober I am, and all of a sudden,
the feelings that used to scare the heck out of
me and make me feel like if I ever had
(39:28):
feelings that it would kill me, and I now know
that isn't the case. So for me, it's just interesting
because of of your friendship and wondering. That's just an amazing,
amazing story. And I feel like one of the things
that I learned to about Leah in that moment that
that I hold on to is that this this quality
(39:51):
of planning as the friend of the person that plans,
understanding that the and the planning is a therapeutic way
to deal with stress and to deal with emotion, and
it's can be an incredibly healthy and productive way to
handle whatever uncertainty is happening in the moment. It does
(40:15):
not mean that these plans are the plans that will
happen when the next day comes that but this was
such a good lesson to learn of, Like, Okay, we're
planning something out for ourselves right now, but this may
not be the but when the moment actually comes, the
moment itself may require exactly what the plan was, or
(40:37):
it may require something completely different. And so having perspective
and sort of malleability in that in that plan is
something that I then always took with me in in
in every relationship after that. But I think that also
like the the the an interesting thing that happened in
(40:59):
our friendship that I think was essential is we were
together simulating sex so close, like sweating on each other
like like we would we we like like if I
can say, just to speak one more time about this
period of spring awakening, we would like like like wrestle,
(41:21):
we would bully like like we would like pin each
other down and like physical with each other and were
very confused by because it was I'm sorry to interrupt you, John, Uh,
it was very physical like we were we were so um,
I don't, I mean, you're You're way more eloquent than I.
(41:42):
Please keeps no no. And I remember, like I remember
Naya on what when we were like in rehearsal one
day drink clee. She was like, there's no way the
two of you are her asked or whatever. We just
had this like but we weren't but we but we had.
What we had. It was the most like incestuous close,
(42:03):
like it was so raw that I really think that
One of the one great moment of transition that happened
sort of organically kind of um when I think back
in retrospect, is we had some distance and it was
sort of like being in college or something together and
(42:23):
then being a part and we had this kind of
moment where Leah moved to l A and I was
staying in New York, and it was really in retrospect now,
it wasn't even occurring to me in the moment, but
it was so good for our friendship because we were
so we were almost too close with the level of
(42:44):
closeness couldn't sustain relationships. And so when we had this
physical distance that sort of just happened because of your
career and Lee and all of that, it created space
that I think is really important in in all relationships.
But in perspective, it helped us some. It helped our
(43:06):
relationship mature a lot too, because you know, like Jonathan said,
we we had this very college like experience in Spring
Awakening where we were so so intertwined morning in and night,
working together, going home with each other, spending the days together,
our families became good friends. We would spend weekends together,
days off everything, and then we had this distance, and
(43:29):
we um grew up, and Jonathan's career, you know, blew up,
and and and my career you know blew up, and
it was like, uh, you know, but the distance forced
us to maintain that level of friendship. And I think
that that's also when you really know who is meant
to stay in your life. It's like when life changes
(43:50):
and when there's distance, do you keep you know, in
contact with the part, do you do keep that level
of we we did, and it helped us kind of sure, Um,
but it also forced us to maintain the relationship with
all these other things happening, you know, in in life.
And then our relationship went from this. So I can
(44:15):
kind of compare it when we were in Spring Awakening.
It is like when two people are young people fall
in love and it's like that lust, like just that
like I am upset. It was deeper than lust, um,
but it was like that so obsessive I love you.
And then when we were on Glee together and then,
(44:35):
you know, especially when like Corey passed, Um, our friendship
became that grounded two soul mates, just that like a
real beyond the wrestling and the you know, it just
turned into something that is life long, not that it
(44:59):
wasn't in Awakening, but it took on a level of
maturity and deepness and just like I can now go
you know, and see him when I see him or whatever,
and it's like there is a connection to Jonathan that
is Um, they will never go away. Now it just
became like cemented. I know I'll get if I'm a
(45:24):
good friend. We'll be right back with more good friend
after this quick break, so stick around. I don't I
know I'll get if I'm a good friend. I don't know.
You know all of the planning that you and by
the way, and I share, but I you know, that's
(45:48):
part of in friendships. I'm not great at telling people
what I feel about I'm I struggle, honestly with with
words about it. I find writing letters very challenging. I
have It's like a weird thing with my mother. My
mother used to write letters, but I didn't believe them,
and so it felt like words are cheap and actions
(46:10):
speak louder. Actions speak louder, and so I am a
woman of action. UM, and my hope is that my
action speaks louder than the words that I could possibly
put together. Um. And at the same time of all
of that planning, Uh, life happens and Uh there's a
(46:31):
book and I've mentioned it on this podcast before and
but it's important to me. It's a book called Special
Topics and Calamity Physics, which is a novel by Marichia Pessel.
It's just a terrific novel, mystery novel if you're looking
for a great book. But in the middle of it,
she talks, the main character talks about, you know, life
is supposed to be, Um, what you plan? You know,
(46:54):
you where you go to school, what happens your first job,
dead dead and the dead end? Then you meet eat
and you do spring awake, and like that's how it's
supposed to go. And she says it isn't you know?
She says life hinges on a couple of seconds you
never see coming, and what you decide and do in
(47:15):
those seconds determines everything from then on. And you won't
know what you're going to do until you're there. And
I remember when I read that and then thought back
to my life and the very hard things, really hard,
(47:35):
horrible things that have happened that I never saw coming,
but that transformed my life because of the way I
responded to them, and that's kind of what you were
just saying, Mom, was that moment for you of such
grief and so, I mean, addicts, it's hard not to,
(47:58):
you know, understand that they're on a on a dangerous path,
let's say. But no matter what, you still don't see
it coming. And you know, I knew you guys were friends,
and obviously that takes it from as you said, the
sort of wrestling kind of energy together and really becomes
(48:24):
so human. It's just such a human experience to go
through together. And you know, the way you spoke of
Mom was really very moving. Um, that's why I popped
in my head. Um. And then of course children, I love.
I love the woman who's planning this and that. And
(48:45):
I just kept sitting back here like, yeah, you just
had a kid. Yeah, and I see everything is white. Okay,
wait wait. I love all my friends who have children,
and their palates are you know, kind of wide and
crew and I love it. And I cannot wait for
the day that they bring home a Fisher Price plastic
(49:10):
box that's bright yellow, red green, and that they dragon
and like, mommy, mommy, look I got I love I Minuto,
I love manu JOI and you're just shaking because it's
so not gonna work. No, I'm there already, I meanterly.
(49:32):
My like I my pediatrition was like, you should just
clean the baby at the beginning of the feeding and
the end of the feeding. You don't have to clean
through up the meal. Because I was like, Okay, when
you have a fifteen year long friendship, now you go
(49:53):
through um, breakups, lost success. Um. I got married. Jonathan
was there for my wedding. Uh. I never thought I
would have a pregnancy that he wasn't by my side
for the entire time, but because of COVID we were separated. Um.
But then you know, the minute that I was able
(50:14):
to get to the East Coast and see Jonathan, the
quarantined got multiple tests and we're able to see each other.
And I hadn't seen john in probably a year. The
last time I saw Jonathan was we had just filmed
the Jimmy Fallon Show together. We went out for dinner
(50:36):
that night, had many a cocktail together, and I woke
up the next morning and took a pregnancy test and
found out I was PREGNANTY. I hadn't seen him for
an entire year and he walked in the door of
the nursery and I was breastfeeding my son, and it
was so weird because Jonathan has seen me without clothes
(50:59):
on more of times maybe than my husband, um, and
and like I just remember feeling like uncomfortable and like
a little nervous um and also like like when did
we grow up? And did it happen? And and it
(51:19):
was it was we. I have these sort of like
these moments that flash in front of my eyes with
Jonathan and I, I would say, like the first time
we met winning the Tony's first Spring Awakening and this
you know, I ended up visiting him in Los Angeles, um,
which is a wild story of fate, and that's how
(51:40):
I met Ryan Murphy and that's how Glee was created.
So I have these flashes of moments in time in
our relationship, and then that moment of him walking in
with the breast even though I was like, this is
my son, and like, it was so intense. It was
really intense, filled with a lot of emotions that I'm
(52:02):
still just processed. Yeah, of course you are. And do
you remember that, mom and Jonathan ord right, Yeah, I cried.
I just walked in and felt overcome with emotion seeing her,
and and then I sat on the floor at your
feet and just it was like trying to compute. I
(52:24):
felt simplearly. Only other time I felt the say he
was with my brother when he had his first child.
Feeling like, Okay, you're a parent, You're a parent, You're
a parent. This is, on one hand, feels like the
most natural. And and Leah is such a mom's mom.
(52:47):
She's such a mom, has always been. I always knew
that when she had a kid, and since the day
I met you, has always talked about winning a child.
Mama Who Bore Me was the first song she sings
that spring away to ing. It was like, obviously always
at the front of every conversation we had throughout the years,
what it would be like this guy you're dating, but
(53:08):
is he the father of your children? You know, there's
always the conversation about the kids and the family and
will this be the debt? Will this be the dad?
You know, we're kind of looking for like the real dad,
not even necessarily the husband, but like who's the dad
because it's always been a means to an end for
the kid, and now here is that is the child?
And so it feels natural, and yet it feels so
(53:32):
strange to compute, like everything is different, everything is different,
like everything now is as it it makes so much sense,
and you really feel like before this and after this,
like as many things as we experience, ties and lows
and grief and success, this to me is like even
(53:54):
like wedding. Yes, but it's like boom, all of a sudden,
there is a there is a human being in the room.
And now to me, that's at least what I felt like.
Now everything is different. It was of course many different evolutions,
and this is now the whole beginning of an entirely new,
(54:16):
an entirely new experience, and I feel like so excited
to be the gay uncle ever. Well. And I spoke
to my friend Naomi Phoner yesterday and she is the
parent of Maggie and Jake jollen holl and I am
the non gayther of um of her kids, even though
(54:40):
it's not an official god parent position, but apparently it
is according to the internet. UM. I believe, I believe
everything that I read on the internet. UM. But the
reason I bring it up is that the reason I
brought that up is because I've become friends with Maggie
and Jake separate, and so what I was thinking of
(55:05):
possibility for you that you will actually be able to
be a good friend to ever to ever in your
own relationship, not just in the connect the dot back
to to mom. And I hope for you that you
(55:26):
get that because the friendships I have made now as
an adult with the adult children of my friends separate
from their parents has been really uh An added, is
the whole idea spring awakening. We want to spring is
(55:47):
about renewal and growth and change and death and life,
and um, that is what you hope. I will tell you.
It's such a wonderful way of looking at a friendship.
And I am beyond grateful to the two of you,
and I'm not and I do not want. But it's
(56:08):
funny because, um, I you know this show was born
from a song. I don't know if you had a
chance to listen to the song it's on your email.
Loved it so good. That is literally the birth of
this show was me hearing that song, going, oh, um,
I love I love her anyway. I've always um and
(56:29):
you know I've been listening to you know, I do
listen to show tunes, and I you know, there are
so many songs about friendship, and I was listening. I
don't know if you've heard it recently, and if you haven't,
I'm going to urge everybody to listen to it. Easy
to be hard from here, Lynn Kellogg Jonathan knows, Okay,
(56:50):
I'm I'm obsessed with it, you know, because how can
they ignore their friends? I mean, I just I sob
and I've been listening to it on repeat, doing these
podcasts and you know, at home, I'm just so it's
funny because here I have two people and just so
you know, I can't sing. Um. I can do many things.
(57:11):
I could build a house. I if you want me
to build a house, I could build a house. I
can do almost anything. I never thought I would do
any of the things I do, ever, and I do
them all, and I do them well. And that's just
my gift. I just sort of say, oh you need that, Okay,
I can do that, and boom, we're doing it. We're
(57:31):
doing this right now. Never in a billion years would
I have thought of doing this, and now I'm doing it.
But the one thing I cannot do is sing, and
and I I'm telling you I can not sing. So
the idea that I am talking to the two of you,
two people who both I admire as friends, I admire
(57:52):
for your art. Man, I mean, I just it's such
a gift. Thank you so much for doing this. You've
You've made a beautiful episode of the good Friend podcast,
and anybody listening, stay safe, God bless you and whatever. Bye,
Thank you for having guess. Good Friend is produced by
(58:23):
Dylan Fagin and is a production of I Heart Radio.
Our theme song, good Friend is written, produced, and performed
by Emily King. Unlogative from a good Friend, Don't Already
(58:48):
From a good Friend. For more podcasts from my heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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