Adult Film Star Finds Hope In A Second Chance

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Joshua, my guy.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Thank you so much for taking the time and being
on here. It's good to see you.

Speaker 1 (00:08):
Good to see you.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Man.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
I'm so sorry that I'm not in Austin, but I'm
glad that we made that happen.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
Yeah. One of these days we'll make it. We'll get
together in the same city and sometimes we're both speaking
at a place and we're kind of in and out.
So that's these days, that's when I do see you.

Speaker 1 (00:26):
Yeah. So we're at two events I think in March,
I think, or maybe June, because we're at an event
in Georgia together, and then we're at Ignite together.

Speaker 2 (00:38):
So that's Roanoke, Virginia, Lynchburg, Lynchburg, Okay.

Speaker 1 (00:44):
Yeah, yeah. So the event's at Liberty Yeah.

Speaker 2 (00:46):
Okay, so you went to Liberty, right, yeah, Okay, So
three years ago I was thinking about this last night.
I was on a plane and I I was in
the habit about three years ago of downloading a bunch
of videos to watch while I'm traveling on tour, going somewhere,

(01:10):
and I see one it was like very very much
clickbait for me. But it was like porn Star to
Preacher or something like that, and it was Alan Parr.
It was Alan Parr's show, and I was like, ah,
that works for me. I'll take it. So I, you know,

(01:30):
downloaded on YouTube and listened to the it was like
a two hour interview. Listen to the whole thing and
on the plane and was blown away by this story
and just couldn't it was so much deeper than I
could possibly have imagined. Fast forward a couple of years

(01:53):
two or last year. I'm going to uh, Jackson Hole, Wyoming.
Get off of the plane and there's this guy. It's you, right,
and like hey, and I didn't put two and two together.
And you're like, hey, are you going to this summit?
You and I are both going to this Christian leadership

(02:13):
summit thing in Jacksonhall. And you're like, hey, you're you're
going to this thing. It's like yeah, I'm going. And
you're like, well, you know, what's your story? And I
was like I'm you know, I was in the country
music industry. They're like okay, cool, And I was like
how about you? And you said, well, how's actually in
the porn industry? And and I was like, wait a minute,
the guy, you're the guy. You're you're the guy, and uh,

(02:34):
and and and then I told you, you know about
the Alan Parr interviewed, and and and then we became friends.
And it's just been, uh, it's been fascinating to watch
your journey, to read your book and to see what
the Lord has done in your life. Yeah, it's it's

(02:56):
nothing short of a miracle. And anytime someone become even
comes to Christian, the Lord saves somebody, it's a miracle
akin to the to the creation of the earth. Anyway, Amen.
And then but to see something so dramatic, your story
is so dramatic as the Lord saved you. And brother,

(03:18):
I just I just love you, man, and I love
your story, and I love what the Lord has done
in your life.

Speaker 1 (03:24):
Yeah. Same same here. A huge fan of seeing you
just surrender everything and just be incredibly humble. And I
just love watching you from Afar. Being a dad, you know,
I've got four young kids and you know, their maniacs
and they want to be outside that they want to
do all this stuff, you know, and just like it's

(03:47):
it's just amazing to see what God will do when
you surrender and submit your life and say, hey, I'm
going to lay down my plan, I'm going to lay
down my wounds, my winds, all of it, and say, Lord,
I want to I want to serve you in the
best way I know how. I want to steward my

(04:07):
story in a way that doesn't point people to myself,
that points people to you. And also the you know
that that the struggle of God wanting to use you individually.
You know, same with me. It's like God wanting to
use us individually to proclaim his glory to be you know,
a carry of his word of reconciliation, but do it

(04:30):
in a way where you're walking in humility, but you're
doing it in a way that that seems like like, Lord,
I don't want to be seen, but I want you
to be seen, but I have to be seen for
you to be seen in this way, just like navigating
through that because you know, I'm sure we'll get into
my story to an extent, but for me, like I

(04:53):
go you get a theological education, and I wanted to
teach the Bible, but I wanted to teach the Bible
to like fifteen guys in the world. You know, I
didn't want any part of being on a stage or
having a platform. I you know, I deleted social media.
I wanted no part of it.

Speaker 2 (05:12):
Social Media.

Speaker 1 (05:13):
Yeah, yeah, I deleted social media. I even had I
had like old tattoos I covered up. I had social
media that I deleted. I mean, I like I literally
tried to like disappear. Ironically, I had a Celtic cross
on my shoulder and then I had you know, not

(05:33):
not proud of it, but I'd gone out and you
know gotten, I had way too many drinks and I
got a random person's name tattooed to my wrist. So
I had those, but I had both those tattoos, and
so I got I got that covered up. And the
cross the reason I got covered up because for me,

(05:53):
it wasn't that I wanted to cover up the cross.
For me, like that was a it was almost like
a digital footprint of who I used to be. So
like I just wanted to, you know, have a timestamp
of like, hey, here is uh this on my arm,
this is gone, anything that I'm doing on this side

(06:14):
of time. You can't attach to what I used to do.
Like I think like that to an extent made sense
to me. But yeah, I got this likekoy fish like
jumping out of water and like rocks and stuff. But
I've covered up like a really small Celtic cross I
got when I was eighteen. I'm pretty sure the same
one justin timberally cares.

Speaker 2 (06:36):
Because it represented your own life and the porn and
your old life and the porn industry. Is that the
thinking behind that? Yeah, same with the random name on
your wrist.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
Yeah. Absolutely.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
And this was so you you come out We're way
out of order here, but you come out of the
porn industry twenty thirteen, is that right?

Speaker 1 (06:57):
Yeah? January, Yeah, January twenty thirteen. Yeah. So so there
was like this there was this three month like this dark,
dark period of I mean, we can get into it
as much as you want, but like there's this three
month period of where like I was struggling with suicidal ideation,

(07:17):
like there were people in my life that was dying
left and right and through, just like death swirling around me.
And then I had this like crazy interaction at this
bank and called my mom and just like I telled it,
you know, out of la where it's like I don't
I don't want to have access to this place, you know,

(07:38):
anything that's in it, and I just you know, kind
of tuck my tail between my legs and ran, you know,
ran home to mama in North Carolina.

Speaker 2 (07:47):
So let me see if I get this right. You're
in the porn industry for like eight or nine years,
like almost seven, oh okay, almost seven, so like six
two thousand and six to twenty thirteen. You got into
it because you were basically sweet talked as a young

(08:09):
aspiring actor moving to La broken childhood, a dad that
was non existed in your life, and that's all kind
of part of your story. You go to La aspiring actor,
which is it's to me. I think it's probably harder
than the country music industry, but in the same way

(08:32):
it offers the world kind of offers the same promises
of stardom and fame and money as in country music.
So I get it. You go, you got stars in
your eyes. It's exciting California. The weather is amazing, you know,

(08:53):
everyone's pretty and happy. It seems they have nice cars,
and it's like I can do this, you know, and
then all of a sudden, you get you get swept
off your feet by these people at a restaurant.

Speaker 1 (09:05):
Right, yeah, I mean you painted the picture one hundred
percent correct. Where it's like I grew up, my mom
had me at well, she got pregnant at fifteen, had
me at sixteen. Super super small town. I think a
thing that kind of impacted me as a child is
that my dad was in physical proximity of me in
this small town, like you know, a town of like

(09:27):
two thousand people, woe't gas station, one grocery store. So
I would see the man that was my dad, but
he was never my father in my life. My mom
worked at a restaurant where across the street we could
see a gas station. That gas station was named Rogers,
and my dad that was his dad, Rogers, So he
was a junior, so he was you know, roger Dale Junior.

(09:47):
So I would see the gas station that my grandfather owned,
and I would see him often drive up in his
green Z seventy one, and I knew that was my dad,
but he was never my dad. So I just think,
you know, the the way that you know, like you know,
just attachment theory or just like emotions are developed where
like as you're growing up, you have you know, people

(10:08):
and experiences in your life and in your brain. You know,
you try to navigate through what is this emotion, like
what is this emotion attached to? And regarding you know,
this conflict that I didn't have, you know, a solution
for I believed, well, if I can't understand why he
doesn't want to be my dad, it must be my fault.

(10:30):
So if if that is the truth, then maybe I
am the solution. And as most men or most most
people are high achievers, I thought, well, you know, if
I can earn enough, if I can become enough, maybe
I will feel as if I am enough. And what
I just wanted to hear man was a son, I'm

(10:52):
proud of you. I wanted to hear that so bad,
and I thought, well, maybe the next thing is becoming
you know, great student, great athlete. You know, maybe there
was a conquest and achievement or an accolade or an
award or something that would mitigate that that feeling, that wound,

(11:16):
that deficit. And yeah, so I mean I lived my life,
you know, doing you know well, but doing well on
the in the hope of that accomplishment or affirmation would
mitigate the wound that I had. And that drove me,
you know, to do good things and to be successful

(11:37):
and to work well. But you know the thing that
was driving was unhealthy and you know, getting a place
where I started modeling enacting when I was around twelve
thirteen years old, predominantly modeling, studied theater in college, moved
to LA had had a great manager, had had great representation.
But again it was it was almost this like weird

(11:59):
thing where I wanted to succeed in acting and I
was doing relatively well in modeling, but that's not what
I wanted to do, which is kind of something that
you know was in the same ecosystem. So in the
middle of that, like you were saying, three headhunters came
up to me. They are like, hey, would you ever,
you know, be interested in doing a porn And you know,

(12:19):
I had seen pornography for the first time at thirteen,
and you know, not not growing up in a home
where you know, there was a mom and dad, my
grandmother and grandfather, even they slept in separate rooms. And
it's like I didn't have a visible representation of what
intimacy was or looked like. And you know, as Romans
twelve talks about either being conformed by the world or

(12:41):
transform other renewing your mind, and for me, the thought
of what intimacy was or looked like was shown to
me in the pages of a magazine when I was thirteen,
and that the feelings and the emotions that were tied
to that was like, man, in a way, if I
replicate what I see, maybe I'll feel what I don't

(13:03):
And that.

Speaker 2 (13:04):
It took a long time to figure that out, Like
you didn't think that at the time. You No, No,
you're very wise now looking back that you're able to
identify this is why the building blocks happened in that.

Speaker 1 (13:16):
Oh yeah, I mean this is like you know, yeah,
this is a you know, eleven years removed from it,
you know, counseling, working working in the mental health space myself.
But yeah, I mean there there's these these building blocks
for you know, how you see the world. And it's like,
I mean, that's essentially what my book is about. Like
if you believe a lie to be true, well you

(13:39):
will live as if that lie is truth, and you
will incorporate that lie into your worldview and that impacts
the way that you interact with people, the way that
you see yourself, the way that you see live, the
way you see God, the way you see everything.

Speaker 2 (13:51):
Wow.

Speaker 1 (13:52):
And yeah, man, I was just I was this broken
kid that just wanted to be loved. I wanted to
be needed and known, and I it was just this
like this catastrophe of collateral damage and collateral like bad

(14:12):
decision after bad decision. Perfect and yeah, and I think
like that. The dangerous thing is that, you know, once
I did one film and I got, you know, my manager,
like two thousand and six, Different world. On two thousand
and six. My manager's like, you did you did a
porn Like we can't, we can't represent you. You know,
We're like, we can't. We don't want to be tied

(14:32):
to you. You know, your likeness, you know, we can't.
You know, I think a lot of you, but sorry.
And then all of a sudden, you know, as then
a twenty two year old, I believed, well, you know,
the only thing that is logical. The only thing that
I can do is continue doing what I did that
got that got me into this mess, which is you know,

(14:52):
it's like the worst thinking ever. Continue doing the thing
that like created you know, this catastrophe be in your life.

Speaker 2 (15:01):
But very logical outside of the Christian worldview, what you
did was very logical. And the headhunters you call them
as they came up to you know, to recruit you
in the restaurant. Yeah, it sounds very much like human trafficking.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
Oh, I would say this. You know again, I use
this language like being very much entrenched in this work.
On the other side, but a lot of people ask
me regarding pornography like does force fraud or coercion, which
is how someone would define trafficking, does that exist within
the porn industry? I said, no, it doesn't exist. It's

(15:36):
completely dependent. Wow, so there are they are synonymous. And
then like, I've never met a person that was in
the industry that was not traffic There's not a person
that is that I knew that was you know, that
was a long tenured person that was in the industry
that wasn't doing you know, escorting, that wasn't doing all

(15:58):
this stuff. And yeah, I mean we can get into
the weeds of that to the two the extent that
you would want. But it's like, yeah, man, like those headhunters,
they were being compensated by an agent where they would
find someone. Even the conversation with the agent, so you know,
they they say, hey, do you want to meet with
our agent if you want to do a film? And
I meet with the agent. The first question he asked

(16:19):
me is how did I grow up a ka Do
I come from a broken home? Is there brokenness in
your life that I can use as ammunition to manipulate
you with my words so that you will do what
I want you to do? Like, are you a broken
vessel that I can extract value from so that I
can manipulate you? And you know, can I frame porn

(16:39):
in a way that that you know, Okay, you want
to be an actor, you want to be you know whatever. Well,
in pornography, they're they're moving towards like perioding movies, so
you can use those talents. You seem like you're a
great actor, You're a good looking kid. You want to
be famous, you want to make money. Well, this might
not be mainstream acting, but maybe you can be a

(16:59):
star in this world. You know, so like just taking
you know, innocent questions and manipulating a broken person to
get them to do what you want. You know, that's
in the you know is as broken as it is, man,
it's not far removed from the stuff you would see
in some of the darkest places in the world.

Speaker 2 (17:20):
Man. And the fact that they that very first gig,
they picked you up in a town car to take
you to the shoot. That makes one one more level
of difficulty for you to back out. You don't even
have your own car there.

Speaker 1 (17:33):
Yeah, I mean it's it's almost like, you know, I
get there, but I mean even like I would say,
like even like back up to that, it's like, Okay.
The first thing he needs you to do is you're
gonna get a full plan, full panel STD and the
age test. They're like, you're a good looking guy. You
like you You've probably like you know, you've probably hooked

(17:54):
up with a few girls, Like what would it hurt
you to like get get tested. And I'm like, okay,
you know I've been pretty promiscuous like in college. You know,
I probably not not a bad idea. So I get that.
And that's kind of like you know your work permit,
so you got it. You have to you have to
have a new test every depends on what company you're

(18:14):
working for. Some some companies require a fourteen day test
where it can't be older than fourteen days. The oldest
test you can have like twenty eight days. But you
have to go get a test and then like to
your point, they pick you up in a in this
town car. It's like, oh, we're going to take care
of you, like, don't worry about where the addresses. We'll
pick you up at this time and then we'll we'll,
you know, we'll we'll drop you off after you're done,

(18:36):
and then you get there and then you know, you
get there and it's like, well, this sign this, this
is how you get paid. Well, uh again in retrospect,
I did not read it. I just signed where. You know,
here's here's the highlighted portions. Don't worry about reading and
just sign here, and this is how you get paid.
But what was I signing? I was signing away. I
was saying, Hey, I'm going to be an independent contractor.

(18:58):
It's going to be compensated a one time fee. And
what they're gonna get is they're gonna get one hundred
percent rights to any audio, video, or sound that was
recorded that day, and they have the right to partition
it and sell it to as many third parties for
you know, for as long as they want, and there's

(19:18):
no limit on how many people own this. So what
happens is you do one scene then all of a sudden,
you know, my likeness ends up on sex toys, on
dating websites, on billboards and all of a sudden, like
people are asking like, oh, are you getting royalties? Royalties
do not exist in the porn industry because you were
not a person, You're a product. So it's like you

(19:39):
you know, so it's like you get paid, you know,
five hundred dollars for that day, and they're gonna get
you know, they're gonna use all that stuff. So that's
how that that was day one.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Day one, and your story is gets so much worse
after day one. That's that's what's wild. So let me
ask you remove your twelve years removed of this, Yeah,
twelve years last month, do you still see what was

(20:11):
your name?

Speaker 1 (20:12):
Yeah, Rocker Read?

Speaker 2 (20:13):
Do you still see Roco? I mean does that ever
come up?

Speaker 1 (20:18):
Well, I would say there's not a day that goes
by that I don't get some kind of notification of
like someone trying to abuse my likeness.

Speaker 2 (20:26):
You know.

Speaker 1 (20:26):
It's like I have a really great team that you know,
we had to work really hard to get my I
M b D like changed because it said it didn't
say like, you know Joshua Broom AKA like it was
like your name is Rocker Read also known as Joshua
Broom and you know they were it was just crazy.
But I think and I think there's just like really

(20:49):
beautiful parallel to to kind of wrap your head around where,
you know, think about a troll on social media, we'll
we'll do they ever have a profile picture? If they do,
it's something obscure, and their user name it's always something random.
Why if I can remove myself from like who I'm

(21:12):
identifying as I can, I can operate in a behavior
that's that's different or apart from who I actually am.
So in the porn industry, you that from the jump. Okay,
well you're not going to go by Joshua Broom. It's like, well,
all the all the people that say, but I love
my job, I love my job. Well, if you love
it so much, why do you want to be removed

(21:32):
from what you do? Why do you want to go
by this you know, this, this pseudonym because you're more
willing to compromise because Joshua Broom wouldn't do these things,
but maybe this other person would.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
Yeah. I think that's such a fascinating part of your
story because when we think about the Bible, when we
think about God changing names Abram, Abraham, Jacob Israel, we
think about Saul de Paul Simon Peter that the name
going going backwards and taking your name away from you,

(22:04):
the opposite of what God has done is what the
enemy has done through that porn industry. We're gonna take
your name away from you so that you'll be more
likely to go down the Senator road and then which
we can get to in a minute. Uh to the
bank teller, Yeah, it was that. The impactful moment was
when your name came back to you.

Speaker 1 (22:26):
Yeah. I mean, so it's like, you know, at that point,
you know, I had been in the industry, you know,
well over six years, and I thought, like, you know,
you know, growing up as a kid, like you know,
food stamps and you know, I got one like pair
of basketball shoes a year, and my Mom's amazing. But
it's like this was this was how I grew up
and I and I believed, well, man, if I had

(22:48):
a million dollars, yeah, and you know, every feeling of
insecurity or feeling of like worthlessness would just melt away
and I would just be healed miraculously because there was
an additional comma in my bank account. And then I
made that money and guess what, nothing changed. And then

(23:09):
I thought well, if I win Performer of the Year,
that means that the studios and the fans attached to
that industry had voted that I was the guy. Got
nominated four years in a row, and then in twenty twelve,
I won. I won Performer of the Year, and then
you know, as crazy as this is, like this, I

(23:30):
guess in retrospect, in the world that we live in today,
it's not that crazy. But the award show was aired
live on Showtime, and you think, you know, you go up,
you get this award, and it's like it's this huge deal,
and it's like you made it, You're the guy. And
I thought, man, if I won that award, like that

(23:52):
means outum somebody, yeah, you know, and look in a
weird way, yeah, in a weird way. It was like
I wanted so desperately to feel chosen because I felt
like my dad didn't choose me my whole life. And
I won that award and that was the worst I

(24:13):
ever felt. Why because it didn't make me feel like
I thought it would. It was like, I won, That's awesome,
but I still felt the same. And I was like
I thought, like when I won that, that feeling like

(24:34):
I was not worth anything would just go away. So
when that didn't work, the anxiety that I had that
I was trying to suppress was amplified. The depression that
I already had that I tried to suppress with a
million things, it was deepened. And then man, it's just

(24:55):
like from that moment, like you enter into like three
month period of my life where it couldn't have been darker,
and I'm literally trying to sabotage my life and trying
to do things. I was trying so hard to live
my life in a way where it gave me the

(25:18):
courage to end my life.

Speaker 2 (25:20):
How soon were you realizing I'm not getting the fulfillment
I thought I was gonna. I mean, are we talking
about that that night you go home with it?

Speaker 1 (25:29):
Oh? Yeah, I mean I I had like I had
one of Like I was in a suite at the Venetian,
so they always had you know, that was where the
war show got placed and took place, and like I
didn't go to the there was an after party at somewhere,
didn't go I had. I was being paid to like

(25:51):
sit in the VIPA section. It's like you know, people
would pay It's like you know if you if you
pay to be in the VI VIP section or buy
a bottle, it's like you'll you'll have access to like
these people. I didn't go. I I just went up
to my room and I just like looked myself in
the mirror and I thought, Man, it didn't work.

Speaker 2 (26:15):
And I don't think that that was the cat that
was like a catalyst for you. That's that was like
a game changer. Winning the performer of the Year in
the porn industry. Was that was a game changer?

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Oh yeah, I mean it was that. That was that
was one of the lowest moments of my life because
you know, I mean it was almost like you know,
here's here's this thing. I mean, it's like it beautiful
in that again, this is having the wisdom to look back.
You know. Roman Romans two four talks about God's love
is kindness, his patience that leads us into repentance. And

(26:52):
I think in a way God loved me enough to
give me everything that I thought that I wanted so
that I would realize that it wouldn't fix me.

Speaker 2 (27:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (27:02):
So it's you know, sitting there, you know, looking myself
in the mirror and then you know, just grab the
bottle and uh break it until I you know, had
enough to like pass out. And then that's that's how
you know, GAT was getting calls and stuff like that

(27:23):
and just wanted nothing to nothing, you know, didn't want
to be around anyone. And it's like, man, I I
love and respect you enough to you know, like share
this part of my story because you know you keep it,
you know, ditch it up to you. But you know,
things got super dark for me really quickly. There was

(27:45):
a because I would do like bartending, like shirtless bartending
for you know, like different like fashion designers and stuff
like that, and they would pay me ridiculous amounts of
money to like come to to Paris or wherever they
were into like the bartsend parties or just like to
hang out. And soon after that I did one of

(28:09):
those and I got I got drugged and sexually assaulted
by you know, the the owners of a well known designer.
And after that happened, it was almost like number one,
it's your of course this happened. You know, it's your
fault for being there. This is the way I was thinking.

(28:30):
And then I was like, you know, this is almost good,
because like this is a legitimate reason for me to
end my life, and I couldn't. I couldn't bring myself
to do it. There was, you know, there was a
bottle pills that I had that I knew, you know,
I had looked up as like if I take X amount,
that's going to do the trick. And I would put
on the table, i'd line them up, i'd get the water,

(28:53):
i'd look at them, and I just couldn't do it.
And that happened probably fifteen times. And then I thought, okay,
well what what do I need to do to continue
to sabotage my life? And I thought, well, you know,
I this has already happened to me, and then doing

(29:14):
porn is the only thing I can do. So maybe,
you know, I keep getting because like in the time
that I was in the industry, you were getting offers
from like gay companies. It's like, well, if if you
assign a contract with us, you know, name your price,
we'll give you, you know, a million dollars a scene
like whatever, like you just tell us. And I thought like, well,
maybe if I do that, Maybe if I after I

(29:36):
do that, uh, maybe then I would have the confidence
to in my life and I would be essentially removed
from the industry in that because like in two thousand
and six, seven eight, like in this time period, like
girls would not work with guys who did gay porn.
Studios like straight studios would not hire guys that did

(30:00):
gay porn. There was this like feeling of you know,
in that industry. In both industries, really people were dying
of HIV. There was this you know, this this feeling
towards the gate side of the industry. So I accepted
a contract and I did a film, and then after
doing it, I thought, Okay, you know this. Uh, there's
this movie. Gosh, forget what it is. It's a it's

(30:24):
a Christian movie where this girl she's like working in
the brothel redeeming love. She's she's working in the brothel.
She meets a guy they had, they start this great
life together, and then she just gets this itch to
go back into chaos. She goes and works with the
brothel one more time and feels disgusting, and she's in

(30:44):
this river and she's literally she has a rock and
she's just scrubbing her body with it to the point
where she's like about to bleed, and she's trying to
scrub off something that she feels, but that feeling's not
on her skin, and that's how I felt. And then
I'm like, man, maybe this, this is this is going

(31:06):
to be it. And I stayed in that industry for
a few weeks and I did a few films like that,
and then after I'd done like the last one, I'm like, okay,
like this this is this is it. But then I
just need one more, one more person to agree with me,

(31:27):
you know, because you know, uh, because I think it's
in sometimes when we superimpose our brokenness on to intimacy
and love, what we can believe is like intimacy is
compliance not connection, and we can try to manipulate another

(31:47):
person to agree with us. And you know, with with
bad theology, we could say, well you should uh surrender
or submit to me because I have authority in this
hierarchy of you biblically, but what But what's happening is
I'm I'm not wanting you to submit to me as
a godly husband. I'm wanting to you. I'm wanting you

(32:10):
to comply with me. So I'm trying to use my
emotions to manipulate you to get you to do something.
So I feel some sort of way. And I say
all that to say that thinking drove me into that bank,
in that in that bank, in that in that bank,
I had a check. And on the memo of the
check it said, you know what what I was being

(32:32):
compensated for. It was clear a lot of times directors
would do that almost being antagonistic, you know, be very
grotesque in the memo of the check. So normally I
wouldn't take this and hand it to a teller. I
would just you know, drop box atm whatever.

Speaker 2 (32:47):
Okay, let me let me podge, Joshua, because this is
this is such a crazy part of your story. Yeah,
and to give context, because I know I'm learning new
things today for sure, but I'm know a lot of
your story. I've heard you say it when we're when
we're you know, on the stage together, and I've heard
you say it on different podcasts. But part of this

(33:08):
manipulation that you're talking about, and you're in that the
gay industry for two weeks, you said, well, part of
that manipulation that you don't you didn't sign up when
the when the Headhunters came into the restaurant. It didn't
start that way, but it wasn't like, hey, hey buddy,
do you want to do gay porn? No, it's it's levels, right,
It's these levels they build you up at and you

(33:29):
you mentioned that they say things like what's the extent
of what you would be willing to do?

Speaker 1 (33:34):
Oh? Yeah, So it's like so when you give in
the industry, you you have a no list, right, so
these are these are things that I don't want to
do or people that I choose not to work with.
And you know, but with the way it works is uh,
this this is like four guys also, but predominantly for girls,

(33:56):
where it's like there's things that you're not willing to do,
and time pass and then you know, the girl will
begin to not be as popular as she once was.
And then the agent goes to the studio and auction
off this thing where it's like, you know, she hasn't
done this, uh this sex act before, and how much

(34:20):
would you pay for her to do it? It's like okay,
top bitter, thirty thousand, okay, perfect, And then the agent
goes back to the girl and says, you'll never believe
it out of nowhere. This studio says they want to
give you thirty thousand dollars if you're willing to do
that thing that you've never done. And I know you
said that you didn't want to do that, but just
let me tell you this, you'll be relevant again. People

(34:41):
will start booking you again. You'll your name will will
will rise, and you'll be a star again. So if
you just do this thing, that's just one time, and
they're going to pay you your X amount of dollars.
So in the in the porn industry, you know, your
no list is not really no because you don't really
have a note like you can. If you believe that
you're you're not someone who does porn, you are you

(35:04):
are a porn porn star.

Speaker 2 (35:06):
You know.

Speaker 1 (35:07):
It's like my only attachment to worth is that I
sell myself for sex. So if that's true, if that's
the only thing that I can say yes to, what
can I truly say no to? Nothing? So my my
no loses this validity. So I would say, in the
porn industry, your no doesn't mean no, Your no means
how much wow.

Speaker 2 (35:30):
So then fast forward, you're suicidal. You've lined these pills up,
you know the exact amount of pills to take to
end your life. You've got even have the glass of
water to take the pills. And you said you did
that like fifteen times. And this is the state you're in.
I mean, you spent two weeks in the in the

(35:51):
gay industry. You've done. You've passed all. You've surpassed all
the nose that you once said you wouldn't go this far.
You surpassed it all. You've one Performer of the Year.
Did you win that? How many times did you win that?

Speaker 1 (36:04):
So? I got nominated for it four times, but one
at once?

Speaker 2 (36:07):
Okay, so you're suicidal. You've won the top award and
this now we go. Now you're gonna cash a check. Yeah,
Rocko's gonna cash a check. You haven't even heard. Joshua
was gone. Joshua was dead.

Speaker 1 (36:20):
Yeah, and yeah, one hundred percent. And it's like I had,
you know, at LLC. You know, it was like I
don't remember what it was, but yeah, so like Joshua
Broom had had no place at the table. Yeah, And
and I'd say, I mean, we can dig into this
and in a little bit if you want. But it's
like for me, like when when I got fired with

(36:42):
my manager. You know, it was one thing, but you know,
being being from a small town, it only takes one
person to know one thing about your life for everyone
to know everything about your life. Yeah, you know got
through the grapevine that you know I done that. My
my uncle heard at work, and then he went and
told my mom, and then my mom calls me, and
you know, you know, being from the South, it's like

(37:04):
how much of your name gets used is how much
trouble you're in. So I hear, you know, Joshua Luke Broom, like,
tell me the truth right now, like, did you do this?
And and I had to tell my mom I did.
I did do one of those films. But for me,
I wasn't sure about much, like Grangeeryd. I wasn't sure
about much as a kid. But something I was super

(37:24):
sure of was that I was my mother's son. If
I needed something, she was there, no matter how hard
she had to work, if I wanted you know, uh, somehow,
some way, I don't know how she did it, but
I always I went to you know, basketball camp at
University of South Carolina every year I was in high school.
I don't know how she made that stuff happen, because

(37:44):
like we were struggling, but she was always there for me,
always protected me. You know, anything I needed, she was there.
So I was. I was certain that I was my
mother's son. If I didn't know anything else, I was that.
And then when my mom was hurt, you know, and
I told her like, yeah, I did that. And then

(38:05):
that's when Satan amplified a lie that I believed about myself,
because when I hurt her, when I hurt the only
person that had never hurt me, there was a little
voice in my head that's like, see, you're exactly who
you thought you were, Like, that's why your dad didn't
want you. You're no good. Of course of course you

(38:26):
did that. Of course you hurt her. Of course you
made that decision. This is not something you did. This
is who you are. You're exactly You're exactly who you
thought you were. And man, and that caused me to
believe another lie that I had disqualified myself from being

(38:50):
her son, Like what what good could I do in
her life?

Speaker 2 (38:54):
The only thing you knew for sure? Now you're disqualified
from even that.

Speaker 1 (38:59):
Yeah, so she was. She was calling and texting me,
but I didn't answer because what am I going to say?
So it's it's either you know, I I wallow in
my shame or I run from it, you know, or
you know, I certainly wasn't going to own up to
it at that time. So to your point, I'm in

(39:21):
this bank, I'm walking in with this check, and what
I wanted was I wanted the bank teller to take
the check, to look at it, and to see the memo,
and to tell me you are as disgusting as you
think you are. You are. I mean, it was it
was like that a title of a movie. I mean,

(39:42):
it was clear that I was being compensated for sex.
You know, it was gotcha, you know, So it was
it was clear that I was in a porn movie
and I was being paid for my actions in it.
But I just wanted, like I wanted her to agree
with me so that I could do what I wanted
to do. And she was unshaken by it. Looked at it,

(40:06):
you know what, you know, what's your account number, swipe
the cards, you know, uh, deposited the check. And then
I'm dumbfounded. You know, I'm already shaking, pale, like ready
to die, but terrified. And then she came around the
corner and said, Joshua, are you okay? Joshua, how can

(40:31):
I help you? Let me get you some help, because
it was obvious I was not okay. And that was
the first time I had heard Joshua come from someone's
lips talking to me and well over a year, and
it it was almost like it woke me up, you know,

(40:52):
it woke me up out of this this plausible reality
that it created based on shame and hurt and pain,
and and I felt guilty. And I felt guilty because
I was withholding from my mom the thing that she
more than deserved. She just wanted to know that her

(41:12):
son was okay. Like in this industry, you know, to
this day, there's forty two people that I was friends
with that have died of suicide or overdose. Forty two.
There's people last.

Speaker 2 (41:26):
I've seen interviews with Allen it was like in the
thirties and so it's going out. It's going on now.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
That I continue.

Speaker 2 (41:32):
That is unbelievable to me, that that's one of the
craziest things. I will never I told you this in
Jackson Hole. I will never forget that you said that
over forty people you knew in that industry are now dead,
so much so that you said if you watch a
porn today, there's a really good chance, especially the girl

(41:53):
is dead from.

Speaker 1 (41:54):
Subside and what's and what's so twisted about it is
like in the porn industry when someone dies that way,
they make a compilation of all their scenes and they
try to monetize the thing in which that caused their demise. Yeah, man,
so it's like that's that's the reality of the industry.

(42:17):
But yeah, so it's like when she came across, you know,
she came around the corner, and you know.

Speaker 2 (42:22):
It's all like God spoke to you that day in
the bank. You know, that's what it feels like to
be God. Yeah, Okay, Joshua and.

Speaker 1 (42:31):
What and what I love is like number one. You know,
like our names have meaning. It's like Joshua literally means
yahweh salvation. You know, it's like what.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
A name, but what it did people across the Jordan River.
That's you man, That's that's your namesake.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah man, Yeah, like to to you know, to to
rock azah, you know, to be strong and courageous, you
know too.

Speaker 2 (42:56):
My brother's Tyler and Parker and I own this apparel
company called You. It's a lifestyle brand. We have ee
dot com. But you know, I'm not good at that
kind of technical stuff. I don't build websites, I don't
take credit card information. That's where Shopify comes in. They
handle all of our customer checkout. They make it super easy,
and they do it for millions of companies. It's not
just us small ones, big ones, and all the ones

(43:18):
in between. So if you're thinking, like, hey, this is
the year, you know, I'm thinking twenty twenty five is
the year I want to finally start that business, consider
Shopify for your checkout needs. So upgrade your business and
get the same checkout that we use Atyee. With Shopify,
sign up for your one dollar per month trial period
at shopify dot com slash granger all lowercase. Go to
shopify dot com slash granger to upgrade your selling today

(43:41):
shopify dot com slash granger. If you like the content
in this podcast, hey consider sharing it with a friend,
subscribing to this podcast, giving it a good review if
you want, and commenting on the YouTube page. These are
all things that help this podcast reach more people. If
you want to get a hold of me personally, you
go to Cameo dot com slash granger. Smith. I can
make you a video message for anything that you want.

(44:04):
It could be happy birthday, happy anniversary, maybe just a
word of encouragement. Got to Cameo dot com slash Granger Smith.

Speaker 1 (44:10):
But you know, so like after that, so like, I
was like, man, I gotta call my mom. And I
call her, and man, she lit me up. You know,
she she chewed me out because she was hurt, you know.
But then after she after she was done, she said
to me everything that I didn't think she ever would.
She's like, You'll always be my son, I'll always love you.

(44:32):
And I please, and I beg you please leave this place.
You're so you're worth so much more. You're so much
more capable than what you what you're doing. You know,
you're you're worth more than the way you're living. And
I listened to her and I left, and it's like
most like so many like so many people get my

(44:52):
story wrong and that they're like, oh, this guy, you know,
left porn to become a pre cture, And it's like, man,
when I left porn, I was still so far from God, right,
he was obviously, you know, interceding on my behalf and
beginning to work. But when I left the porn industry.

(45:15):
There was a two year period where you know, the
way that I described it, I tried to put enough
good dirt on my bad dirt so I didn't look dirty.
You know, I started working in the health and fitness space,
and it's like, you know, essentially I did the same
thing I was doing in the porn industry. You know,
I like, Okay, how can I become the most successful.
It's like, Okay, find a great mentor get a bunch

(45:37):
of credentials, find the best gym to work at, and
then you know, work really hard and become the best
in my field and make a lot of money. And
I did that is just a.

Speaker 2 (45:47):
Season where you deleted social media and cover tattoos. Okay, yeah.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
Yeah. So in the middle of this, it's like, you know,
I'm I'm because I was never like I didn't have
any value. But I thought maybe, you know that the
things in which my mom instilled in me was you know,
to love people well and to work really hard. Like
my mom has an incredible work ethic. And it's like, man,
if like all I know, like whether I'm eating you know,
chicken wings or you know, playing pickleball er uh, you know,

(46:15):
whatever it is, it's like I want to win, and
I'm going to give it one hundred and ten percent.
So it's like, okay, well, if I'm going to be uh,
you know, in the health and fitness space, it's like
I want to you know, become an expert in you know, food.
I want to like understand you know, movement patterns. I
want to understand exercise science. I want to understand programming.
And then I just like dove into that and had

(46:36):
a really great mentor and you know, became really successful
in that. But like in the in the middle of that,
I just replaced one thing with another, you know, because
I was trying to earn my worth and I thought
if I did enough and had enough, I would feel
as if I was enough, right, and it, you know,
it worked for a while because it, you know, the

(46:57):
the newness numb my pain until it didn't. And then
two years into that, this girl comes strolling into the
gym and you know, decked out and Iowa hawk eye
cheerleading stuff, and but she she was the best athlete
in the gym. You know, obviously she had a background

(47:19):
in gymnastics, but she was the best athlete in the gym.
But you know, wasn't boastful, wasn't flirtatious, didn't didn't hang
around very introverted, just came in, worked really hard, kept
her head down, and like left. I was just fascinated
with her. And then I asked her on date probably
you know, ten times she said uh, she said no

(47:42):
in the most polite way, and she she eventually said,
well before church on Sunday, I go for a long
run and if you want to meet me, you can
meet me at this park. And I was like, I'll
take whatever I can get, you know, And I meet
her at this park and I was like, man, I
was so fascinated with her, But then reality creeped into

(48:05):
my mind. I'm like, remember who you are?

Speaker 2 (48:09):
And I'm like, I was still talking to you. Yeah,
years removed from from the hell hole, but you the
enemy was still speak You were still a sinner in
need of a savior.

Speaker 1 (48:21):
Oh yeah. And it's like, so you know we we
before our run even started, you know. I was like, Hey,
I just want to let you know this about me
before like this even has the potential to become anything.
I'm this kid that his daddy didn't want and I've

(48:45):
done a lot of stuff that I'm ashamed of I've
done pornography and it's on the internet for anyone to see.
You will probably always be there And just so you know,
I'm this really bad person. This is who I am.
And you know, she's you know, hit with this jab

(49:05):
to the nose of like something that she didn't expect
to hear, so she was pretty taken back by it.
But then I just saw the wheels turning and we
were kind of walking in silence, like this very uncomfortable silence,
and then she stopped and like gave me, you know,
this this look. You know, she was an elementary school teacher,

(49:25):
you know, like she gave me like this look where
like she was going to say something stern like can't
kind of planet her feet and said, hey, she said, hey,
I want you to to know I don't want to
minimize your pain or negate anything you said, but I
want you to know that you are not defined by

(49:47):
the worst thing you've ever done, and you won't be
defined by the greatest thing you'll ever do, because there's
an author of you, and it's not.

Speaker 2 (50:01):
You incredible and incredible.

Speaker 1 (50:08):
And I mean it's like, I mean, so like like
anyone listening to this, like if you're with us, like
in this story, it's like I believe the absolute opposite.
It's like so like she was challenging, like not only
the way that I thought she was channeling, challenging everything
that I believe to be most true. Like I'm I

(50:33):
am defined by the worst thing I've done, and I'm
I hope to be a fine defined by the greatest
thing I'll ever do. I'm hoping to do something great
enough to cover up or overshadow the reality of what
will never go away. And she, you know, and then

(50:53):
she stopped. She's like, like, do you know who God is? Now?
I was like, I went, you know, I went to
church a little bit as a kid, but you know,
maybe probably not. You know. She's like, well, I've been
following Jesus since I was in the seventh grade. I'm
not perfect by any means, but my life is based

(51:13):
on a foundation that's built through my relationship with him.
So what kind of food do you like? I was like,
you are insane? Like I thought I was crazy, Like
you're crazy, but I mean it was I love like
thinking about like Colossians four, like you know, Paul's you know,

(51:34):
in prison for preaching the gospel, praying for opportunities to
preach the gospel, praying to to walk with wisdom towards outsiders,
you know, thinking, hey, let let our speech be gracious
and season assault, so we might know how we ought
to answer each person. You know, I love this book
Master Planet of Evangelism Roberty Coleman. He says, Uh, most

(51:57):
people are not looking for an explanation and they're looking
for demonstration. So thinking about like the way in which
she responded to me, it stopped me in my tracks
and he created this curiosity in me, and it's like,
how in the heck can she respond to what I

(52:17):
said like that? And maybe, just maybe is what is
what she's saying true?

Speaker 2 (52:26):
M hm.

Speaker 1 (52:29):
So we walked and talked and then she invited and
she invited me to church. And then we went to church.
And I was like, I'm not sure about church, but
I'm sure about wherever she's going. You know, I'm following her.
And I walked into I walked into this church in Raleigh,
North Carolina, you know, not expecting much, and you know,

(52:50):
I'll give you the abbreviated version. But I walked in
and you know, I was expecting a legalistic presentation of
how how far I was from God and how I
would never get close to him because you know of
who I am and and and you know, that was
what I believe to be true. And I heard this,

(53:13):
you know, this man, this old man that reminded me
of my grandfather, with tattoos on his arms, and he
was wearing jeans, and uh he told this, uh, this
story out of Second Sandwich, chapter nine, about my fellow
chef and how David had invited my fellow chef into
his kingdom. And my fellow chef, you know, being the
son of Jonathan. Uh, he was expecting death and that's

(53:36):
why he was in this place called Lo Debar, you
know this, this this place of no pasture, thinking that
you know, I need to hide because if I'm found
historically because uh, you know, my my my dad was Jonathan,
my father was Saul. And now David had been chosen
and anointed to be king. Uh that meant that, you know,
I'm I'm on the outside looking in. And anyone that

(53:58):
was attached to a family that was of a former
kingdom or a potential you know, challenger of the kingdom,
that person was hunted down and eradicated. They were killed,
so he thought, like, my head is on the platter.
And then David invites him to his kingdom after he's
been hiding. He thinks, okay, doomsday, you know, today's today,
And David instead says, hey, I'm gonna invice you into

(54:18):
my kingdom. You know, I want you to, I want you,
I want you. I want to give back to you
your grandfather's land, which isn't just any land, it was
part of Canaan. So he's inviting him into the kingdom
of God, saying, we're gonna be part of my kingdom,
and you're gonna have a seat at my table, not
for a day, not before a week, but forever. And
you know, this is a beautiful picture of grace, you know,

(54:39):
mercy being you know, withholding what we do deserve, grace
being this unmarried to favor that we don't deserve. We
see this, and in Second Sandwich, chapter nine, verse eight A,
Fellows Chiefs responds to this by saying, who am I
I'm I'm but a dead dog. I don't deserve this,

(55:00):
essentially what I heard and and and you know the
reason that that part of the Bible comes so alive
to me, because essentially he's saying, don't you know who
I am? Yeah, don't you know who my father is?
Don't you know the sin that I'm attached to?

Speaker 2 (55:20):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (55:22):
And then he read Hebrews twelve two. He read that
with joy set before him, that he endured the cross,
you know, scorting our shame. He's seated down on the
right hand of God. But it's like something about joy.
Just like explosion happened in my head. I was like, okay,
So like I'm with you. You're saying that Jesus, born

(55:45):
of a virgin, fully god fully man, lived a perfect life,
faced temptation, never sinned, goes to the cross, but he's God,
so of course he's obedient to the Father. But he's omniscient,
So he's all, why would he have joy in his
heart as he's going to the cross. Where does joy

(56:08):
come from? And then it hit me he loved me.
He had joy in his heart because he loved me.
And it was like and yes, I mean like when

(56:34):
that hit me, I fell on my face and just
sobbed and sobbed and sobbed and sobbed, And when I
stood up, I made a decision that you know, I
didn't have my theology perfect, but I believed that Jesus

(56:55):
was real and he really he was a real person.
He really was the Earth, and he knows me, and
he loved me enough to die for me, and he
rose from the dead on the third Day. And if
I placed my faith in him, then then not only
am I saved from hell, but I'm reunited to the
father that I've never had. Wow, And you know that

(57:19):
was that was ten years ago. You know that was
that was ten easters ago. And you know in that
in that girl her name's Hope, which is pretty cool.
And we've been married for nine years and we have
four boys, and like God is taking me on this
journey that you know, like there's there's like my version

(57:44):
of what you know, if Hesian three twenty could be.
But like God, you know, he far exceeded anything I
could hope, dream or imagine, because we're just being loved
by him is more than enough. But the fact that
he would allow me to be man, that he would

(58:10):
allow me to be a husband to a person like her,
and to experience the love that we collectively have shared.
Seeing our four kids born and look at me and
call me dad, and me provide safety to them. And

(58:38):
it's not like it's not better than anything I ever hoped,
Like I would have never had the guts to dream
of the life that I have today and like all
the stuff that I get to do, like that's amazing,
but just that, you know, like do.

Speaker 2 (58:58):
You with your four boys, now, how often do you
kind of think about that? Think about a moment where
you're talking to them and you just say, son, I'm
so proud.

Speaker 1 (59:12):
Of you, Oh dude, I mean yes, yesterday, it's like
we we were out, you know, just playing. You know,
we we bought like a T ball set and it's like,
you know, I bought them like legitimate, like aluminum bats,
you know, got some you know, nothing crazy, just like
some Easton's you know. And uh so Cannon is six

(59:34):
and Lincoln he's about to be five, and so we
were out there hitting t ball. You know, he's like,
you know, had his had his Like Cannon's a perfectionist.
So it's like, you know, do I have my feet
in the right place? Dad? Do I have my elbow up? Dad?

Speaker 2 (59:50):
You know?

Speaker 1 (59:51):
And then you know he's you know, smoking them and
it just looks at me and like it just It's
just such a reminder to me. Were like, you know,
I have a tendency to uh, you know, want to
give them the world, you know, to to buy them stuff,
to do stuff, you know, but the thing that they

(01:00:12):
want most is to be m And you know, like
the look in his eyes where I'm like, buddy, you know,
I'm so proud of you. You did such a good
job and just and just to see his eyes just
melt because that's what his heart wants and just like
just you know, loves to draw and stuff like that.

(01:00:34):
It's like every you know, I travel, you know, sometimes
every week, and you know he always like will draw
like a little you know, he'll draw something wild, but
then he'll put you know, two Dad, I love you
Cannon like that. I'll never get you know, tired of that.

(01:00:54):
It just I mean I remember like when he was born,
like you know, never been around babies or had been
a long time, and he was born and you know
he's born he's all like slimy and cone headed, and
you know, and it's like and I'm freaking out because
like so Cannon was so Hope's water broke during a

(01:01:17):
CrossFit cap during a CrossFit class, like she's doing like
wall balls and dead lifts and her water breaks and
I'm coaching the class, and I like, I freak out,
you know, and I'm like, what do I you know,
what do I do? And she's like, we're gonna you know,
we just bought our first home, and like we you know,
we went there and it's like stuff was barely unpacked,
and she she had sticky notes for me, here's a

(01:01:38):
bag that I packed three months ago. Your your toothbrushes here,
get this, get that. And then we go there and
we go to the hospital and because her water broke
and she was dilated enough, they kept her at the hospital.
But it was twenty four hours later that he was born.
So I'm on edge her twenty four hours. Yeah, so
at at four twenty one, he was almost like a

(01:02:00):
stoner baby. So it's four he was. He was born
on seven eleven for twenty almost for twenty one, you know,
for twenty one. In the morning, he's born, and I'm
just like, I hadn't been asleep. I'm just like, you know,
out of my mind. And the nurse is holding him
and you know, she's wiping him off, lays him in
you know, the warmer, and she's like, you can touch him,

(01:02:21):
and I'm like, you know, we're gonna touch you more.
My hands clean, you know, and I ooh. When I
started to reach in his direction, he grabs my finger

(01:02:48):
just started to sob and in my spirit I heard
God say I love you more than that, and yeah,
like part of that. So that's why we we named
him cannon. Like cannon and Hebrew means measuring stakes. So

(01:03:09):
it's like for us, he's the measure of God's grace,
you know. But I'll never I'll never forget that. Like
when I when I recall it, I always get emotional
because it's like it I feel like, you know, I'm
still you know, it's still there, you know, but just

(01:03:32):
the joy of being all of their dads. You know,
A will just turn one a few weeks ago and
it's just like, yeah, just started walking and it's just
like you know, it's it's just wild to see uh
them them to get get older and you know, be

(01:03:52):
able to walk and then you know, then say certain
things and you know, tie their shoes.

Speaker 2 (01:03:58):
And you're able to see that you're able now because
you were loved, yeah, and you were loved by God
and this is your testimony, and it's actually mine too,
and it's so many people that you're because you're loved
regardless of what you've done. Yeah, and regardless of all

(01:04:19):
the bad things you've done. And hey, you don't have
to be in the porn industry to be a sinner
in need of a savior. In fact that the Bible
says that all of us are sin and fall short
of the glory of God. So your your story is
is as dramatic as it is. It's not any worse
than the man down the street that's that's relying on

(01:04:40):
his own righteousness and he's walking told ladies across the
street all the time.

Speaker 1 (01:04:43):
Yeah to God. Yeah, and I love that. It's like,
I mean, I love you know, the understanding from like
Roman's one where like God has made himself evident in
his creation, and then Romost three twenty three, it's like,
you know that we've all sinned, and then Romans six
twenty three will of the wages that since death. But
then like you go back like Romans five eight, it's like, man,

(01:05:04):
while knowing the worst thing you've ever done, Jesus willingly
went the cross and died for you, not what not
not in hopes of you would become perfect. Why, knowing
the worst of you, Jesus shows you and it's like
and I that's why I love Romans where it's like
when you get to like Romans twelve one, it's like

(01:05:26):
the therefore you know, you know, it's like because of
all this in view of God's mercy, Like you know,
a reasonable response is for us to live as a
living sacrifice, you know, not to be informed by the world,
but transformed by the renew of our mind. Why so
that we can discern what is God's good, pleasing and
perfect Will you know? What? What have you? If I

(01:05:46):
understand you know Romans eleven thirty nine, right, buy him
for him, through him all things. So he is the creator,
the initiator, and the sustainer of all things, including me.
But He's withheld his wrath from me, not because I
deserve it, because he loves me that much, and because
I've been saved from his wrath by his love, because

(01:06:10):
of Jesus' blood. A reasonable response is for me to
act like it, not to be not to be perfect,
but to be aware that there is a God that
loves me that much and chooses to express himself through me,
through our stories, so that we can tell people of

(01:06:31):
his majesty. You know, I love like, yeah, I had
these like really ugly wounds, but I've got these really
cool scars that point to an amazing healer.

Speaker 2 (01:06:42):
Yeah. Amen, Romans five nine. Since therefore we've been justified
by his blood, how much more will we be saved
by him?

Speaker 1 (01:06:50):
Yeah?

Speaker 2 (01:06:50):
From the wrath of God. From the wrath of God
that's so often lost in American Christianity. We're saved from
the wrath of God by the blood of Christ, once enemies,
now adopted sons with an inheritance to the kingdom. When
you know that, when when you've grafted that you're loved

(01:07:11):
therefore you do now you could love your boys, and
you could you could also tell them was I will
fail you. Yeah, I love you, but I will fail you,
but God will not.

Speaker 1 (01:07:23):
Yeah. Yeah, I love that, you know, Yes, I mean
and just the you know, I love the fact that,
you know, like my boys, like especially Cannon and sometimes
Lincoln will travel with me and it's like it's just

(01:07:44):
it's just I don't know, man, It's just like you know,
when when they're at you know, on Sunday we're at
church if someone's asking them like, well, you know, uh
what what you know, what is your your mom and
dad do? And he's like, my daddy eaches the Bible.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
You know.

Speaker 1 (01:08:03):
It's just yeah, man, it's just I just love my
family so much. And it's just like and it's it's
not about like, oh, like Dad's like, you know, did
this or does that? Or he's on you know, but
like my wife will like send me pictures of like
I was doing something and it was on TV, and
it's like a picture like our little boy like hugging

(01:08:25):
the TV. You know. It's just like wow, It's just
it's just so cool man. But the end of the day,
it's like that's what I want for other people, you know.
That's why that's why I tell my story with so
much vulnerability and openness. It's like, man, my hope is
for you, not that you will live rightly, that my

(01:08:45):
hope is that you experience the abundance that Jesus Christ
died and offers to you, because so many like we
just need to realize, you know, like John's intent. You know,
it's like the enemy wants to still kill and destroyed,
but Jesus he's wanting to offer you abundant life. And
what that's going to look like, you know it. You know,
number one, it's gonna start with understanding. You know, our

(01:09:06):
biggest problem with sin and the only solution that add
is Jesus Christ like and from that, it's like, man,
there's things that John fifteen. There's gonna be things that
need to be cut and prune from your life. And
that might be seasonal, but it might be you know,
it might be friends, it might be habits, whatever it is.
But if I am committed to God's word and committed

(01:09:27):
to doing what it says, what's going to happen is
there's gonna be things in my life that press against me.
And I'm either going to allow those things to be
shed and moved away from me because I'm going to
believe that God knows better than I do, or I'm
going to allow those things to conform me to something

(01:09:48):
less than and I'm going to feel empty and broken
and dissatisfied, disconnected and frustrated, and I'm going to experience
anxiety and oppression. And you know, I'm gonna say, well, what,
you know, what am my supposed to do with my life?
You know, I feel so dissatisfied, you know, and I'm
going to try to medicate. It's like God saying you're
over complicating things. It's like love me and trust that

(01:10:11):
my word is enough, and it's like, you know, I'm
when I'm looking at John fourteen fifteen. It's not say
you know, if you if you love me, you'llbey make commendments.
It's not saying, hey, if you don't do what I say,
I'm going to withhold my love from you. Or it's
not if you don't do what I'm saying, I'm gonna
I'm gonna come down with this iron fist. It's like, man,
if you understand that I'm a loving father and the
most important thing about you is that you're my son,

(01:10:35):
and if that is the posture in which you have
in your life, what you're going to experience is life
the way I intended it to be for you. And
that doesn't mean there's not going to be trials and
tribulation and pain and hurt. Now. John sixteen thirty three
is my favorite verse. You know, I've told you all
these things so that in me you can have peace
that in this world you will not maybe you will

(01:10:56):
have tribulation, you have trials, you have trouble. People will hurt,
you will fail. There's gonna be chaos that happens that
you don't understand. It's gonna hurt like heck sometimes. But
you can take heart. You can be of good courage.
Why because He's overcome the world, not you. Courage is
not found in you. Peace is not found in you.
It's found in him. If you keep going back to

(01:11:19):
Him over and over and over and over again, you'll
find what you're looking for. And that's what I want.
You know. It's like I spend a lot of my
time telling people, Hey, this is how you stop watching porn,
or this is how you remove you know, behaviors from
your life, or like when I'm working with you know,
sports teams, you know, this is how you optimize your capacity.

(01:11:41):
All of it is found in the same place. Understand,
your life is not about you. You are created to
be connected to a creator. And the only way that
you can do that is to surrender and submit your
life to Jesus. And then from the heck, you know,
it gets slightly more complicated, but if you aren't there,
you'll find everything you're looking for.

Speaker 2 (01:12:04):
Wow. So Joshua. I was speaking in at this men's
conference thing in Alabama several months ago, and I opened
it up to Q and A afterward, and then I said,
I will stay here until the last person leaves if
you have more questions, And so inevitably that when I
do that, there are more people that have questions that

(01:12:26):
are a little more private, that don't want to ask
in front everyone. Sure, So I noticed that there, you know,
there's line forms and people are like, you know, it's
it's I lost I lost my aunt, she died of cancer.
I'm struggling. And the next guy comes up and he says,
you know, lost my job and I'm struggling. I noticed
there was one guy, he was a freshman at Auburn,

(01:12:46):
and he was like making sure everyone got in front
of him so he could be the last one in line.
And then it comes up at the very end there's
three guys, all freshmen at Auburn, and two of them
are asking me how that they could how they could
better evangelize the college community. You know, he'd give some
practical ideas, and then they start to walk away and

(01:13:08):
one peels off and he says, can I can I
tell you something yeah, yeah, yeah, the other two go away.
He goes and he kind of looks around the room
that's now is empty, everyone's gone, even a church that
it's cleared out, and he said, I'm addicted to watching
porn and I don't know what to do and I
need help. I mean, he was desperate. Yeah, what do

(01:13:31):
you What do you say to that kid?

Speaker 1 (01:13:33):
Yeah? Man, I would, I would tell him that, man,
you have a father in heaven that loves you so much,
and I'm so sorry that that is what you're wrestling with.
But number one, I'm so proud of you for saying
it out loud, because what the enemy doesn't want you
to do, the thing that feels unmentionable. He doesn't want

(01:13:54):
you to say it because you know, the way that
you own your past is to own it, like not
to not the past to own you. You have to
own it. And the way that you own it is
confession James five sixteen. There's so many people that they
have salvation, but they don't have freedom. You know, freedom
is found James five sixteen. And you canfess on to
one another. You know, there can be a righteous man
to pray for you, so they can be healed. So

(01:14:16):
there's people that have salvation, but they don't have healing.
And it starts with saying, hey, man, number one, I'm
so proud of you. And if you haven't done that,
if you're listening to this and you're and you're wrestling
with whether it be pornography or gambling or whatever, it is,
that this this behavior that you have, become a slave too,
and you feel like you can't get away from it.

(01:14:37):
The first thing you need to do is to find
someone that loves you, that loves Jesus and confess it all.
But what I would say is it's so easy to
be vague when we confess. And that's why, you know,
if it's a man, you need to confess to a man,
a woman to a woman. Find someone that you trust
so that you can be honest, open and transparent. And

(01:14:58):
what I mean by that is there the level of
your confession is going to equate to the depth of
your freedom. Well, because the depth of your confession is
going to equate to the depth of your your freedom.
You know that the the you know the and I
would just say, because it's easy to say, you know,

(01:15:24):
I'm I'm looking at that website, I shouldn't look at,
and you know, end up doing something I shouldn't. It's
different than saying, uh, this is the website that I
go to, this is what I put in the search bar.
I masturbate. I feel terrible about it, and sometimes I
go back to it. I do it again the same night,
and I end up crying out to God and saying
I'll never do it again. But I find myself here

(01:15:46):
over and over again. I'm tired. I just want to stop.
Because when you say that, sometimes externally processing something out loud,
you'll say, well, you know, the shame that would cause
you not to say what you know you were putting
in the search bar is actually evidence of the brokenness

(01:16:07):
that you have in your life. And it's like, man,
when you when once you say that, it's like and
if you have someone that you trust, it's like, man,
you can start to kind of wrap your head around man,
there's something that is broken in my heart or my mind,
and porn is just the symptom of a deeper problem,

(01:16:30):
like there's there's something that yeah, there's you know, for
me to get the fruit of freedom, I need to
get to the root of the problem, and the root
of the problem is not porn, like porn is the
byproduct of some other brokenness in my life. Maybe someone
hurt you, maybe you you know, you saw something that
you shouldn't have solved at an early age and you
developed wrong thinking. Maybe you know, either something was done

(01:16:51):
to you or you did something, or you know, maybe
someone wasn't there for you, and you're trying to use
porn as a band aid to cover up the thing
that really hurts. So it's like, man, that's why there's
there's you know, the reason that people struggle with porn
is is an individualistic problem because you've believed a lie
about something. And yeah, so I would say, like to

(01:17:15):
that person, man number one, I'm so proud of you
for having the guts to do the thing that many
don't say. Hey, I'm I'm wrestling with this, but now
let's be let's be honest, because are you struggling or
are you willingly participating in this sin? And that you
know the Bible tells us, you know, God will not

(01:17:37):
you know, give us anything beyond what we can bear.
You know where it's like without giving us a way out.
You know the fact that you know we need to
take every thought captive and make it obedient to Christ.
Where it's like I need to develop better emotional intelligence
and that when I feel something, I don't have to
be a slave to that feeling or emotion. And at

(01:18:01):
the same time, I need trusted people in my life.
You know, Proverbs twenty seven six talks about how you
know the wounds of a friend. Right. I need people
in my life that will not only pat me on
the back. Sometimes I need to kick in the butt,
you know. Sometimes sometimes I need to be called out
on wrong thinking or wrong behavior. So I would say

(01:18:21):
to that person, man number one, proud of you number two.
What are you willing to do to get this out
of your life?

Speaker 2 (01:18:31):
You know anything?

Speaker 1 (01:18:33):
Yeah? Yeah? Or it's like okay, like are you are
you willing to get rid of your iPhone and get
a flip phone?

Speaker 2 (01:18:38):
Oh yeah, that's good.

Speaker 1 (01:18:40):
Yeah, because because what we want to do is the
bare minimum, you know right right that I mean, that's
that's Western that's that's Western thinking. You know. I don't
I don't want to develop discipline obedience. I want an app,
a pill, or a program. Yeah, but everything is everything
that's worth anything is on the other side of obedience

(01:19:02):
and discipline, inconsistency. So I would say, you know what
am I? You know what? What do I need to
remove from my life? I need to set I need
to you know, I need consistent confession in my life.
I need to create boundaries in my life. I need

(01:19:22):
to make it harder to get to the thing that
I don't want to do. Then also I need to
identify triggers where it's like, you know, I ended up
on the porn site, but it started at Instagram. Maybe
Instagram needs to go. Or maybe I need to take
inventory of the people that I follow on Instagram and say, hey,
if there's something that someone is posting that that is

(01:19:45):
catalytic and a behavior that leads me in a direction
that my life doesn't want to go, well, I need
to remove that thing. If I if I don't want
any cookie, if I don't want if I want to
lose weight, I don't need to have cookies in my house,
you know. Yeah, And so I need to take inventory
what what things are catalytic and wrong behaviors? And how

(01:20:08):
can I get as far away from those things? Because
you know that that thinking of well, how you know,
how close to the line can I get without going
over it. That's that's ignorant, Like why would you do that?
So it's like how far? How far can I stay
away from something that's going to be catalytic in me
doing something I ought not to like? And even when

(01:20:30):
I'm a fool, I need to I need to admit
and learn from what I did. Like if I continue
to trip over the same thing over and over again
and I don't look down and don't realize, hey, there
is this thing that I keep tripping over, it needs
to be removed or I need another direction, right, I
don't need to move this way, then I'm being you know,
foolish on myself. So I need boundaries. I need to

(01:20:53):
identify triggers, and I need to commit to being honest
with someone. And I would say, what's even most important?
And in the same way that God used Moses to
lead his people out of Egypt out of you know,
lead the Israelites out of Egypt, God used the law

(01:21:13):
to get Egypt out of them. The Bible. You know,
if you are committed to prayer and reading God's word,
what happens is, you know, the word of God is
a you know, two edged sword divides bone and marrow
and what's going to happen is you're going to read
God's word and it's going to conflict with how you're living.

(01:21:35):
It's going to feel abrasive, and that's a good thing.
But what I need to do is not shun away
when I'm challenging to step into what God is calling
me too and what that's what he's calling you to
is And I'm going to be responsible for my actions
and I'm going to execute. You know the thing that
the last thing in the fruit of the spirit, because

(01:21:55):
of the because I have the spirit of God living
in me. Guess what I have. I have the spirit
of self control. I don't have to be a slave
to sin anymore. I can choose to say, even if
I want to do it, I'm not. That's what Christian
liberty is. It's not what can I what can I
have access to doing no? And I have the power

(01:22:16):
to say no to the things I even want to do.
So like that that's how you get there. So number like,
that's what I would say to the kid laughing, and
I'm so proud, so proud of you, But man, you
can't like you can't stop doing something you've been doing
for ten years in thirty minutes or thirty days. You
need to make a plan, a battle plan of how

(01:22:39):
do I want to you know, how can I become
the person that I want to be? Well? I need
to take inventory, I need to set boundaries. I need
to create some core values that I'm committed to because
I'm not going to do what I want. I'm going
to do what I'm committed to do. You know, I'm
gonna I'm gonna be the man that I'm committed to being.
So part of that is there's a list of things
where these priorities in my life and they're not because

(01:23:02):
of me, They're because of God and God's word. So
I'm gonna use those things as a tool to compear
in contrast again, Romos twelve two, I'm gonna compear in contrast.
Is this beneficial? Is this gonna be edifying for me?
Or is it gonna lead me in the wrong direction?
Is this gonna cause me to take ten steps back?

Speaker 2 (01:23:20):
You know, brilliant dude, you, hey, Joshua, you were a
man of integrity? How crazy is it to hear that
that title.

Speaker 1 (01:23:33):
That? I don't know, Man, it's just like like being
the man that I am now like it's it's you know,
it's it's a miracle. Uh, you know, to to ours
any cessationist friend I have out there, I'm like, if

(01:23:56):
miracles and miracles are done, I'm dead. I'm dead. I'm
I'm certainly not consistently teaching, you know, I'm I'm speaking
at two marriage conferences this month.

Speaker 3 (01:24:09):
It's like like and it's like, like, how well, It's
like I committed to following Jesus with all of my life,
and then also I committed to loving my wife with
all of my wife, but in like all of my
life in the way that scripture calls me to, and
you know, in the byproduct that is like I learned

(01:24:31):
a lot of like things of not to do.

Speaker 1 (01:24:33):
Where it's like that's where I'm going to start. I'm
like this is wrong thinking. But again it's like, you know,
I share this in the beginning. It's like, man, uh,
love has nothing to do and intimacy certainly has nothing
to do with compliance. It's like, man, because there's there's
there's so many things that we learn wrongly because of

(01:24:56):
because of sin, specifically because of pornography. It's like, man,
if I'm trying to superimpose onto the person that I
say that I'm dedicated to loving most. If I'm superimposing
desires that I developed from a screen with my hand
when I was a teenager, If I'm superimposing those things
on my wife, is that love? Certainly not. So it's like,

(01:25:19):
and then I can get upset with my spouse because
she's not meeting my needs. Is she not meeting your needs?
Or are you trapped in perversion? Because what actually needs
to happen is your mind needs to be eradicated to
the perversion so that you can understand what love is,
so that you can experience it and then you can
reciprocate it well.

Speaker 2 (01:25:40):
And what's amazing is now the Lord is using you
to speak into the lives of so many other people
with a perspective that it's very very rare. Last thing
I'll say, do you keep in touch with anybody from
the industry. Has anyone come out of the industry and said, Hey,
I need to talk Josh, I need to talk hundreds? Wow?

Speaker 1 (01:26:01):
And then I mean, unfortunately, a lot of those a
lot of those situations like didn't end up like I hoped.

Speaker 2 (01:26:09):
Yeah, of course that's because it's a miracle.

Speaker 1 (01:26:12):
Yeah, because I mean, I I know, uh, two girls
that have a life where they're healthy and whole, and
it's because they're in they're deeply rooted in a relationship
with Jesus Christ. But man, I don't I don't know
one man, not one man that was in the industry
as long as I was that came out that's it's

(01:26:34):
healthy and whole. But there's there's tons of guys that
are still in the industry that you know at one time,
you know, they they looked up to me to say, hey,
how can I become like him? But what I love
is there's there's a lot of people that are you
know that that either text me or message me and
they're like, man, how did you get to where you are?

(01:26:54):
And what they mean is that how do you get
to a place where at night you lay your head
down on the pillow and you close your eyes and
you're proud of the man that you are? Because it like,
I mean, you know this, it doesn't matter what you have.

(01:27:18):
If you don't have the thing that you need most,
which is a relationship with Jesus, there is going to
be chaos in your soul and there's gonna be nothing
that can feel that void. So for me, it's like, man,
there was a there was a lot of things that
have happened, you know, over this last decade of me
following Jesus. But like the most true and most simple

(01:27:44):
solution to the thing that whatever someone is struggling with
his man, fully surrender your life to Jesus. Like lay
it all down, like all of the all the hurt,
all of the pride, like all of it. And what's
beautiful is Romans eight twenty eight, like all means all,

(01:28:07):
Like he will use like the you know, the worst
of the worst and the best of the best, and
he's gonna take it all, and he's gonna put it
in this this pot and what's gonna come out of
it is gonna blow your mind. But it's all gonna
be for his glory. He's gonna use it all. And
that's what I love. Like there's nothing that you know,
there's no training or experiences or places that I've traveled.

(01:28:31):
There's there's tons of things that like, man, obviously I
shouldn't have done so many of things that I've did,
But in spite of me, God uses all of it,
and nothing is wasted in his economy, you know, when
we surrender and some in our lives to the person
of Jesus, like Romans eight twenty eight. Is it man,

(01:28:51):
that He's going to use all things for his glory
for those who love him.

Speaker 2 (01:28:54):
Man, I don't think there's a better way to end
the conversation. Points are to preacher. Uh, explained best by
Paul's letter to the Romans. That's the conversations be bro.
I love you so much, man, and I love this conversation.
I love you as a brother in Christ. And maybe

(01:29:15):
we could have another one. I feel like we could
have an entirely new conversation about different things.

Speaker 1 (01:29:21):
Oh yeah, we didn't even get to you. Also. Also,
I know this is like far out, but Zach wanted
me to ask you if you were good when you
were in Lynchburg. If me, you and him can sit
down and do a podcast.

Speaker 2 (01:29:36):
Absolutely, absolutely, absolutely, man. We we also didn't get into
your book, which is incredible and so helpful. We share
we share publisher on that as well. Yeah, what are
the seven lines off the top of your head?

Speaker 1 (01:29:54):
Yeah, I mean, uh, the one the two that I
talked to most that talk about the most are per
purpose and intimacy. But I would say like that, Like
the intimacy one is like the most important one. I
would say, like the count like this counterfeit intimacy, this
imitation intimacy Like that That's what I'm preaching on this
whole year because the thing in which like if you

(01:30:16):
if you find the thing that your heart is just
yearning for, which is connection with God the Father through
the person of Jesus Christ, and like fully step into
being sensitive to the spirit of God Man the the
that's where like if you understand like in the fullness
of the Trinity, like how much God just absolutely adores

(01:30:39):
you and wants to equip you, uh, to walk in
abundance in this world. Like that's where it's at, and
we just we settle for so many imitations, but real intimacy,
true intimacy, is found in proximity to God. And that's
you know, that's that's what I want people to understand.
It's like the last the last chapter. If I even
talk about it, that would be a whole other tangent.

(01:31:00):
But it's like it's.

Speaker 2 (01:31:00):
Yeah, because I think you know, seven lives that will
ruin your life. We could go on, we could use
it each lie and make a different podcast. Yeah, and
have a whole new discussion. But I think that that
that'll be for another time.

Speaker 1 (01:31:13):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:31:13):
I love you, Bro. I'll see you in a few
months too.

Speaker 1 (01:31:16):
Yeah man, love you bro. So good to see you
you too.

Speaker 2 (01:31:18):
Thank you thanks for joining me on the Grangersmith podcast.
I appreciate all of you guys. You could help me
out by rating this podcast on iTunes. If you're on YouTube,
subscribe to this channel. Hit that little like button and
notification spell so that you never miss anytime I upload
a video.

Speaker 1 (01:31:36):
Yigi

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Granger Smith

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