June 29, 2022 • 40 mins
Often called the most haunted location in the United States, if not the world, it's rare someone walks through the doors of Waverly Hills Sanatorium without leaving unchanged. With thousands of deaths on record, and reports of experimental treatments, and eventually closing due to abuse and neglect, the history if extensive and the paranormal activity is off the charts. Special Guest: Adam Berry
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Thank you for joining me for the season three premiere
of Haunted Road. We have some incredible episodes coming up,
and I just need to say thank you for making
this podcast the spooky success it is. If you'd like
(00:22):
to meet me in person, I am doing a fall
tour where I will be visiting and speaking in multiple
cities around the country. You can find out if I'll
be in your neck of the woods by visiting Amy
dash Brunei dot net. And if you're in the mood
for a spooky vacation, who isn't. My company, Strange Escapes
is planning retreats in Gettysburg, St. Augustine, Mount, Washington, Hawaii,
(00:42):
and more. Check that out at strange dash escapes dot com.
Sixteen years ago, I had made a pilgrimage to what
I considered to be one of the most haunted places
(01:04):
in America. Back then, I was still looking for ghosts
for the novelty of it. I hung onto each whisper
of an e v P or shadow on film like
some sort of trophy. I think many of us start
that way. This building was massive, five floors of walls
and ceilings that were crumbling, wide open windows, vines, and
trees invading rooms and threatening to take the building back
(01:26):
down with them. When you walked, the constant crunch of
tiles that had fallen from the ceiling and exploded across
the floor was all you could hear, though sometimes you'd
swear another set of crunching footsteps was right behind you.
As I split from my friends who had traveled with me,
I walked down a corridor on my own. It was
then that I tried a little experiment. I decided to
(01:49):
walk down this long hallway, and as I passed by
each door, I would wait to see if one room
in particular called to me, if I felt as though
something unseen was inside. After walking by one, two, three rooms,
I settled on the fourth door to my left. I
walked in and felt a chill down my back and
(02:09):
had a distinct feeling that I was, in fact not alone.
Then I turned on my digital voice recorder and began
quietly asking questions, who is here, what is your name?
What can I do for you? After a few minutes
of recording, I clicked off my recorder, said thank you
and left. After a full night of investigating, I headed
(02:30):
back to my hotel and retired for the evening or
morning at that point. Later that day, I hopped a
plane and headed to what was then home, California. It
wasn't until days later, when I had some free time,
that I was able to review my recordings. As I
sat with my headphones intently listening, I reached the e
v P session I took alone in that room, and
(02:52):
then I heard it, an e v P that, even
until this day causes me extreme guilt and forever changed
the path and the way I investigate altogether. What can
I do for you, I asked? A soft female voice replied,
Where did I go? How could I? How could I
have struck up this conversation? Popped a plane and waited
(03:14):
until now to hear this forlorn voice. Forever changed. I
knew this would definitely not be my last visit to
Waverley Hills in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome
to Haunted Road. In the early nineteenth century, the spread
(03:43):
of tuberculosis was at epidemic. Proportions called captain among these
men of death. The airborne disease was highly transmissible. It
attacked a person's lungs, eating away at healthy lung tissue.
Because some of the infected were asymptomatic, tuberculosis was easily
spread within those holds. By the end of the eighteen hundreds,
tuberculosis was responsible for about twenty five of the deaths
(04:06):
in America. Encompassing the city of Louisville, Jefferson County, Kentucky
was hit especially hard. It's hot, humid conditions were a
perfect breeding ground for the bacterial disease. Hospitals needed to
isolate their tuberculosis patients to prevent them from spreading the
disease to the uninfected, and the county's little tuberculosis clinic
was overrun, stressing the scant resources. Even more was the
(04:30):
fact that those in need of treatment couldn't remain at
home because they would risk infecting their loved ones. A
nineteen fifteen article in the Louisville Courier Journal quoted a
doctor Wilson who said Kentucky has the highest death rate
from tuberculosis of any state in the Union, and Louisville
and Jefferson County regularly do their part in maintaining this
(04:50):
dreadful record. Before the development of drugs that could control tuberculosis,
which wouldn't come until nineteen, doctors struggled to treat the disease.
Their advice usually consisted of some kind of restriction on
breathing to allow the lung to rest and recover, the
idea being that if the lung was less stressed, it
would have a better chance of fighting off the invasive bacteria.
(05:13):
Some of these rest treatments were truly brutal. In some cases,
patients would have a section of lung removed or would
have a lung surgically collapsed to allow the organ to rest.
In other instances, a patient would have weighted bags pressing
on their lungs to restrict the extent to which a
lung could expand during inhalation. But other treatments were much
(05:35):
more gentle. Many doctors prescribed sunlight, fresh air, and rest
to allow people to remain as calm as possible and
give their system a chance to recover. Heliotherapy, also known
as sun bathing, was a popular option, the idea being
that the sun would kill the tuberculosis bacteria. Sanatoriums usually
built high on hills surrounded by peaceful woods became an
(05:58):
increasingly popular option. Patients could rest, stay calm, and have
dedicated medical staff focused on the exclusive treatment of tuberculosis.
Because of the enormous stress on the medical resources in
Jefferson County, it was clear that the area needed a
tuberculosis sanatorium of its own. In nineteen o eight, workers
broke ground on construction of Jefferson County's new treatment facility
(06:22):
in a place called Waverly Hills. Waverly Hills Sanatorium would
eventually become an enormous hospital with four hundred beds, but
when it opened its doors to patients on July nineteen ten,
it was a humble, two story structure that could house
about fifty patients. Being at Waverly Hills was referred to
(06:44):
by locals as being on the hill, and everyone who
went there was required to stay there as a permanent resident,
and that meant everyone doctors, nurses, and other hospital staff
lived on the property and remained there subject to the
same extreme quarantine measures as patients and separate from the
general population in the outside world. The sanatorium was so
(07:05):
isolated that it even had its own post office to
limit the spread of the bacteria. As much as possible.
The sanitary requirements at Waverly Hills were strict. That same
article from the Louisville Courier Journal described the facilities procedures
at Waverly Hills. The reporter wrote, the floors are scrubbed
every day. The garbage is burned. The patients cover their
(07:26):
mouths and noses while coughing and sneezing, and their sputa
is deposited in cups and burned. The sunshine strikes the
buildings at all hours of the day. At the time
that article was published, the sanatorium had grown to have
one hundred seventy eight beds. Twenty five of them were
for children and the rest were four adults. But there
was an entire children's pavilion that sat empty and unused
(07:50):
because Waverly Hills didn't have enough funding to outfit the space.
Using photos of sickly children for emphasis, the article illustrated
that the infected young ones must continue to live in
Louisville and infect other children until the disease consumes so
much of their little bodies that, through sheer weakness, they
will take to their beds for the rests of their lives.
(08:11):
By nineteen twenty four, construction began on an expansion that
would grow Waverley Hills from its original two story facility
to a sprawling campus with a five story sanatorium in
order to meet increased demand. By nineteen twenty six, the
hospital had four hundred beds, most of which were consistently
in use. Full Recovery from tuberculosis before antibiotics was very rare.
(08:34):
Even if a person could self cure, the disease almost
always came back and was fatal in most instances. About
half of the patients admitted to Waverley Hills were in
the beginning or mid stages of TV and had a
chance of being released and going home. The others were
in advanced stages of tuberculosis and had essentially no chance
of recovery. An important feature of the hospital was a
(08:57):
five hundred twenty five foot tunnel that connected the basement
of the original hospital with the first floor of the
new building and extended to the bottom of the hill below.
It served several functions, including delivering supplies and coal to
the hospital and serving as a warmer way to ascend
the hill to the hospital during the winter. It was
also a discrete way to remove the remains of patients
(09:19):
who had passed away. Although the tunnel is nicknamed the
Body Shoot, that's not actually true. There was no actual
underground slide. Rather, the tunnel was outfitted with a rail
car system. According to the Waverly Hills Memorial Research Group,
this tunnel became an effective tool for removing corpses off
the hill in a way that the patients would not
(09:39):
see the dead taken away in hearses. Directors of the
sanatorium decided this was the best way to keep morale up.
With the development of two potent tuberculosis antibiotics in nineteen
and nineteen fifty one, respectively, the medical community finally started
to get control of the disease. By nineteen fifty seven,
the Courier Journal rep hoarded that the death rate at
(10:01):
Waverly Hills had declined fifty seven percent in the previous
ten years. In nineteen sixty one, a breakthrough in tuberculosis
treatment emerged, an antibiotic that successfully cured the disease. While
it was incredible news for those affected by tuberculosis, it
also rendered Waverly Hills obsolete. That same year, the hospital
closed its doors for good after a quarantine period renovations
(10:25):
began that converted the facility into a nursing home, eventually
known as wood Haven Medical Services. That facility was closed
in nineteen one amid horrific allegations of elder abuse and neglect.
In nineteen eighty, the Louisville Courier Journal reported that wood Haven,
one of the state's largest homes, got into trouble after
a scathing report by state licensing Director Sharon Ware. An
(10:49):
inspection found patients kept behind locked doors and generally neglected.
She reported an intense state investigation found malnourished, dehydrated patients,
shoddy care, and sloppy medical records that, in some instances
mistakenly labeled patients as diabetic. Waverly Hills remained closed for
the next twenty years. The Waverly Hills Historical Society describes
(11:12):
that period as one of pitiful abandonment, writing over the
next few decades, Waverly Hills would fall into more dark times,
vandalized damage, nearly condemned. Previous property owners had no desire
to maintain the luster of the building and did little
to stop from slowly destroying her. It is sad that
a place that played such a vital role during this
(11:32):
period of history and medical discovery was not only over,
but now disrespected. In two thousand one, current owners, Charlie
and Tina Mattingly, purchased Waverly Hills and shortly afterward founded
the Waverly Hills Historical Society, working to restore the buildings.
By that point, the hospital had acquired quite the reputation
(11:53):
as a haunted location, and with all those deaths and
all the suffering that happened inside, it was a reputation
the place had earned. In addition to an estimated six
thousand deaths from tuberculosis and disease that happened at Waverly Hills,
there were several other untimely deaths inside the hospital. In
nineteen fifty four, orderly John Lewis Griggs attacked co worker
(12:15):
Edwin a Bris, kicking and stamping him to death. Griggs
was acquitted of his murder charges because, by his account,
Briss had threatened him with a knife. There are also
reports of a nurse hanging herself in Room five oh
two after becoming pregnant out of wedlock, and another nurse
jumping off the roof to her death after being diagnosed
with tuberculosis, herself. Waverly Hills has since opened to tours
(12:39):
and is a popular site for paranormal investigation. Visitors report
seeing countless shadow people and ghostly children, including a mysterious
man in white drifting through corridors, and a spectral boy
named Timmy who roams the halls and likes to play ball.
Also frequently reported are light anomalies and apparitions in the
body shoot wave. Really Hills has such a reputation for
(13:02):
being haunted, it's often referred to by paranormal researchers as
the most haunted location in the United States, if not
the world. Over the years, I've investigated Waverly Hills many times,
including a few times with my bff Adam Bury. Adam
and I share the screen on Discovery Plus and Travel
channels show Kindred Spirits, which we filmed an episode of
(13:23):
at Waverley, and before that we were paired up on
Ghost Hunters, where we also filmed multiple episodes at Waverley.
We've had some wild experiences there over the years, so
I figured it would be fun to chat with him
about our experiences there and our theories as to why
Waverley is just so darn haunted. So that is coming
up after the break. So, since we have been chatting
(13:55):
about Waverly Hills, I thought there was no one better
to join me in the second half of the podcast
than Mr Adam Berry himself. Hello Adam Berry, Hello Amy Bruneing. Um.
I don't know how many people out there know this,
but Waverly Hills is really kind of responsible for the
(14:16):
show Kindred Spirits coming about in a way. That was
a case that we did on Ghost Hunters, and it
wasn't the first time, but it was one of the
most profound times where we left the case feeling kind
of guilty, like we had unfinished business there. And so
I don't know, can you kind of tell the story
of what happened to us at Waverly Hills and why
(14:38):
that inspired the show. Yes, So at this point in
our relationship when we did that case, we've been working
together for many, multiple years, and we had got at
that point. We had the same investigation style, we had
the same sort of belief system about what we were
trying to do as you and I right in this team.
(15:00):
And when we got to Waverley, they had opened up
a brand new corridor or a new wing, and they
called it the nurses wing. And so I remember you
and I really wanted to get in there, and everybody
went before us. That's the way it was back then.
Everybody had already investigated, you know, got in there before us.
(15:21):
But so we were the last to go, and I
think it, I think we saved the best for last
in my opinion. Right, we got into this this hallway,
and the weirdest part about it as we started hearing
these knocks, or we had asked for these knocks to happen,
because it was just an easy way for us to
just see if any you know, anybody was there, any
spirits were there. And I remember we asked for someone
(15:44):
to knock and it happened, and we both were like, oh,
that's very strange. And then we'd asked them to do
it again, and it would do it again, like immediately after.
And so we started playing around with this because you
and I had never experienced something so immediate. I would say,
like that would just continuously happen over and over again.
So like I put my hand on the window frame, uh,
(16:06):
and I said, can you knock on the wood beside
my hand? And then it would knock on the wood
beside my hand, which was bizarre, and I think we
were able to you know, we said everyone, you know,
if you're a nurse in here and you want to
talk to us and reach out to us, if you
could each knock individually so we could count how many
(16:26):
there are of you, and I think we got to
twelve or thirteen at this point. You and I wanted
to help somehow, right, like, we don't know who they are,
we don't know why they're there, but this is the
direction we were leaning towards as investigators, Like we were
done verifying that they exist. We wanted to help them.
But the only thing that we could do, you know,
(16:47):
we asked if they wanted prayer, and there was like
a bunch of knocks, and so we said, in our
own way, a little prayer. And what was insane is
like during this prayer, which probably lasted, you know, forty
five seconds to a minute, there was no knocks, no sounds, nothing,
And then as soon as we said I'm in, knock,
(17:10):
knock as if they were saying thank you. And you know,
as investigators, you think about what that is like. It's
when there was nothing happening during the prayer. Obviously it
wasn't naturally happening. It wasn't rain, it wasn't a motor
or something mechanical. They were legit listening. And then you
and I sad to say, at like three or four am,
we're going into overtime. Our camera crew has been working
(17:32):
all day long. We have to go. And as we're
leaving the nurse's wing, we just hear knocks knocks, and
they're just following us down the hallway like almost to
say like please don't go, like we're making progress, and
we we had to leave, and that was the catalyst
for Kindred Spirits because we were like, we no longer
want to leave a location without doing something to help
(17:54):
or to get a message across, Like we wanted to
do more than just verified. And that literally was it.
We were like, we're, yeah, we're done just saying there's
a spooky ghost here. We're gonna find out who they are. Yeah,
that is exactly right. And I felt like I remember
being in that area and just feeling this very heavy
guilty feeling because I think you and I could just
(18:15):
sense that whoever was there was so desperately trying to
communicate with us for whatever reason. We didn't know why,
like why they were so intent on it, and it
went on for so long, and then we still had
to leave, and I remember walking down that hallway as
those knocks continued next to us, and like just tears
running down my face because I was like, I never
(18:35):
you put your arm around me. That's the second wait. Wait,
that was the first of two times that that would
happen at Waverly exactly, and so I just remember thinking like,
this can't be it. We can't keep doing this. When
I got back to the hotel, the sun is rising,
like I can hear the birds starting to sing outside,
(18:57):
and I swear as soon as my head hit the pillow,
I heard on my wall this knock knock, Like I
was like, I remember saying out loud, I'm so sorry.
We will be back. We will be back and we
will do something more. And so whenever people ask like
how did Kindred come about, I'm like, well, let me
tell you a story about Waverly Hills. So just now
(19:19):
my my my wall cracked. They know, they know, yeah,
so it is a special place for us. I had
gone to Waverly Hills so before I was ever on TV,
I had been on a few paranormal teams, and one
of the teams I was on, we actually kind of
I lived in California at the time, and we made
(19:40):
the trip to Waverley for an organized paranormal experience, right
like an investigation. And I think they were probably twenty
of us total, which Waverly is more than capable of
handling twenty people. It's massive, and I will never forget,
like this was the first time I had ever done
one of these kind of larger scale investigations, and I
(20:02):
will never forget, like the time you could only go
in one way, and so I remember Tina maddingly then
opening the door for us to that hallway, the one
where you go down and there's that kind of that
pellet stove that was the only way in. Like once
that door closed, everything else was boarded shut. And so
I remember making that walk and as I was walking,
(20:26):
like seriously having a panic attack because I was like,
I know something is going to happen here. I am
one going to have some sort of experience in this place.
And it was just quiet, and then that door just
slams behind you, and Tina's like, I'll get you at
two I am or whatever it was that remember what
time door slam shut, and so it actually that night
(20:50):
I was there for hours and that was one of
the first really strong e v P s I got.
I mean maybe not the first, but it was a
very pelling one. I actually played it on a radio
program a few months later. So the e v P
that I got, I was on the first floor and
I was walking along. There were just a few of
(21:11):
us down there, and just kind of walking by these
old rooms. Now, back then, Waverley was a lot like
they've done a lot of work there over the years,
and that time it kind of reminded me of like
what Belvoir Winery is like, like what the Odd Fellows
is very overgrown, not trash, but just debris everywhere, like
you couldn't walk anywhere without making huge crunch crunch noises.
(21:34):
And so I was walking down that first floor and
some of the people I was with they kind of
took off, and so I was literally like by myself,
and I kind of did something that you and I
have done in recent years, where I decided I was
going to walk by these rooms, and the room that
called out to me or that felt like I should
go into, I would go into that room and do
an e v P session. So I did that and
(21:57):
I felt I walked by this room and it just
something about it drew me to it, and I went
in and I did an e VP session and asked
a bunch of questions and then stop my recorder and
left and did not listen to that recording until I
was back in California. And when I got back to California,
I was like reviewing all my evidence, which is also
(22:18):
why we do real time e v P listening now,
where we listen back right away. I can't remember what
the question was that I asked. I said something along
the lines of, you know, is someone here? Who are you?
And all I got was this really strong female whisper
in the room with me. I was by myself, and
she just said where did I go? And I was like,
(22:41):
I heard that back home in California, and I was thinking,
oh my god, who is this poor woman who asked
me this very profound question. And then I was like,
piece up, see you. You know, so you had another
But apparently I wasn't far along enough in my paranormal
career to have be a moment that maybe kind of
rethink what I was doing. But so bizarre totally, But
(23:06):
didn't you have that in the back of your mind
every time you go there afterwards? Like you know what
I'm saying, Like that's just always sort of like sitting yes, yes,
absolutely the way, and I think you agree. The way
I always view Waverley is that there are so many
spirits there and sometimes it's hard to kind of break
through individually, to get their individual stories. And it's kind
(23:29):
of like our work there is never finished, And so
is that woman still there? Has someone since gone there
and helped her? Did she figure out where she went?
Did she go where she was supposed to go? You know,
so many questions, so you and also invove, did you
do Waverley with Ghost Hunter's Academy to girl? Let me
just say so, I knew about Waverley right. The thing
(23:51):
about academy Ghostner's Academy, which we're gonna bring it if
anyone doesn't know what this is. It was a spin
off show of ghost Centers called ghost Unders Academy where
they would take quote unquote cadets. That's the cutest thing
I've ever been called ever. It's like a boy scout um.
They would take cadets and put them in like really
haunted places and then they you know, they would educate
(24:12):
Stephen Dave would educate the TAPS way of investigating, and
then they would observe and and somebody would be eliminated.
But the main thing was you did not know where
you were going, Like they would keep the locations from us,
and so we would like drive up and we'd be
like at Waverley or trans Alleghany or the Stanley Hotel,
which by the way, are like the most badass locations. Yeah. Right,
(24:33):
So the my first the first episode that I was
on was Waverly Hills and we all drove up and
there I was standing in front of this massive location
that I had known about. And so that was my
not only my first experience investigating a location like that,
like huge. Usually I was in like old houses and stuff.
But like, first off that too. I had left my
(24:57):
house at two am. It was now two m and
I was filming a TV show. So I had been
up since two am. It's now two PM, and we
didn't stop filming until four AM. So let's let's do that.
And three, it's like you're sort of like thrust into
this environment where you're like, okay, I've always wanted to
be here. This is really weird now I'm being filmed
(25:18):
being here. Plus I have to focus on everything else.
So that first day it was an absolute whirlwind. And
it was January, so you know it was it was freezing.
Oh that place gets so cold that you you don't
expect it, but there is nothing colder than Waverley Hills
in the winter because it's just cement all around you.
(25:40):
It's dangerously cold, I would say freezing frigid. And so
it's it's been so I spent twelve years, but like
I do remember, we had really crazy experiences. I think
we heard footsteps at one point that we couldn't identify.
And it was one of those places that you obviously
never forget. I mean, your first time at Waverley you
never we get. So that I did it on Academy,
(26:01):
and then you and I got to do it on
Ghost Tuners, and then you and I got to go
back for a candred you know, three times at least
at least three times, and I've been there at least
two or three times outside of filming. So yeah, it's
just one of those places I feel like we get,
you know, it is the paranormal investigators, like, what would
(26:24):
that be to other people like that? I mean, it's
like it is, it is the holy Grail. And speaking
of I had like the holy Grail of experiences there
with you when we were filming Expirits, which to this
day is probably one of the most scared moments I've
ever had investigating. And so we clearly we had made
(26:45):
contact with this angry man. He had had a lot
of issues in life and just some terrible things that
happened to him. And we first like, this guy was
just that the problem was that, and Tina brought him
up to us at the time where she was saying
that at people kept getting this man screaming on the
fourth floor and she even said she heard him scream
(27:06):
in her ear and he was coming through the spirit box.
And then I remember we did an e VP session
and we played it back and there was just this
man's screaming, and so we kind of brought up these
different stories that we had found in newspapers and he
seemed to be this man named John Mitchell. So anyway,
you and I were trying to reach out to this guy,
and he clearly wanted no part of any of this,
(27:28):
and so we're standing. So much happened at once. This
is one of those moments in paranormal investigating where like
it's really important when multiple things happened together. And so
in this case, you and I are standing on the
fourth floor. We're looking kind of down this hallway. We
feel a breeze, which on its own is not a
big deal. There's some windows missing whatever. We hear these
(27:48):
leaves kind of blowing down the corridor, which again like
they make kind of a scratching sound, but we're like, okay,
maybe that could be just the breeze. But with that breeze,
we start hearing footsteps like this, click click, click, and
you and I are like, what the heck? And so
we're staring in that direction, waiting to say, like, what
(28:09):
is happening here? Everyone the whole crew, and everyone's just
looking at each other like what the heck is going on?
And suddenly this man just appears in front of us.
And I'm staring right at this guy, like he just
flashes out of nowhere, and he looks so angry, and
he's just staring at us, and I see he's wearing
(28:31):
some sort of like kind of brownish canvasy looking maybe
almost jumpsuit thing, and then he disappears, and I'm like,
oh my god, Adam, did you see that? And I
think you saw like kind of the tail end of it,
but you saw something, and then I was just like,
what the heck. So we go down at the same
(28:52):
time this is happening. Our poor producer Brian. He's like
he had had a coughing attack that he was trying
to kind of silence is very dusty in there, and
he kept feeling someone pushing on his back the whole time,
like wow, like, and so he finally backed himself against
a wall because something wouldn't stop pushing him. At the
same time, and then you and I stand in the
(29:14):
hallway and we try to continue our e v P moment.
We're listening to it back and something grabs my arm
so much that I just jump and I think I
let out the longest stream of f bombs I have
ever Blame me for doing it. You're like you grabbed me.
You're like, you did it. Don't do that. And then
I did not do it, and we looked back at
(29:34):
the footage you didn't do it. So it was just
like this whole crazy moment where all of these things
kept happening, and I remember, I'll never forget. I think
they played it in on one of the bonus episodes,
but as we were leaving, I remember just covering my
eyes and holding on to you because I was like,
I just don't want to see that man again. I
just I mean it, I don't want to see him again.
(29:55):
And I even told Tina at the end of that,
I said, I don't know that I'll be coming back
to Waverly Hills anytime soon, Like it just really shook me.
And I have not been back since, although I haven't
had the opportunity. I'm working on it, but I mean,
I do remember the whole experience seemed like a horror
movie at a point, because with the wind and the footsteps,
we acknowledge the wind, and I even think I said,
that's free, Like that's like a horror movie. Like I say,
(30:17):
I acknowledge the oddness of the wind, just all of
a sudden picking up with the footsteps and the leaves,
and then it happens, and I did see the tail end.
I mean, I feel like he had like a brown
bowl cut kind of situation going on. I don't know,
I just remember seeing his face. He has a very
distinct look, but I got a very good look at him,
(30:39):
and he did have brown hair. Yeah, and like he
what's weird is like he's sort of manifested and then
sucked back like like it went away. It's just the
weirdest thing. It was very much him being like I
don't want to talk to any Nothing you can say
will make me feel better about what happened to me
(30:59):
and my life, and I'm just going to stay here
until I'm ready to go. Yeah. Also, well, and it
was so sad. His whole his whole story is so sad.
Someone's like a self imposed sentence of sorts, like where
he's like I'm just still grieving or something. He didn't
even die it way, really, he got moved. He did
die of tuberculosis. He got moved to a different hospital
because they moved a bunch of people I think when
it closed. And but he spent I think twelve or
(31:22):
thirteen years there. Yeah, I mean. And also before he
appeared to us, before that happened, I was using the
SLS camera and I remember it just kept getting shut
off and it was like it was fully charged, and
I would open it up and I would point it
in that direction and it would shut off, and then
I would do it again, and then it would shut off,
(31:42):
and I remember getting so mad about it. I was like,
I am so mad. Stopped messing with my equipment, and
you were like, Okay, calm down, and I was like,
I'm gonna fight. You know. It was just like it
was as if this entity, this person had a plan,
was like I'm going to show myself to you. You
know what I'm saying, Like it's like I don't want
to be used in that manner or something. I will say.
(32:07):
That was the one time, like when you were so mad,
I was like, I think something here is affecting at them,
like it really did. I was really for a moment,
I was like, is this it is this when we
finally get possessed. Is this time like like here goes
everyone's waiting for it. I mean maybe, I mean the
energy in that space is very, very strange, and you
(32:28):
and I are really tuned in sometimes to the environment,
and you know, sometimes we might not recognize it. And
if fire temperament is going in a different direction, I think,
you know, maybe we are you know, maybe we are
just being not possessed. But like affected by the energy
around us, because when you and I investigate, I feel
like there's an exchange of energy between the things that
(32:50):
we're talking to people were trying to reach in the
spirits that we're reaching out to end us. And I
think in a way that's why we get such good
evidence and good community patian because of our energy and
collective whatever. So I think maybe it is maybe we
do get slightly affected. Well, you know, it's it's like
our version of reading the room, you know what I mean.
(33:11):
It's like it happens with living people all the time.
You and I talked about this. Whenever we do like
meet and greets and things, sometimes people come up to
us and we're just like that person is having a
bad day, you know, or like like we or that
person is just really lovely and bright, and like it's
not what they're saying, it's just that energy that they're
giving off. Like you just get a feeling from people
standing in front of you and you feel that, and
(33:34):
so what's to say that that kind of feeling is
not there in the spirit world and we're not kind
of picking up on that from the dead as well.
And we've really just filled with so much that we've
really filled with so many things. And like I said
when we first started, like you will not walk into
that place and not have an experience. I know, shadow
figures are prevalent there. I've seen many. The footsteps are
(33:57):
crazy and it is almost like they're messing with you.
I don't know if you've experienced that. There walk behind
you and you stop and they stop. Yeah, it's like
it's it's one of those things like I think I
got an e v P my first time there of
the footsteps and what I swear to God was like
a rolling cart sound near the Death Tunnel or the
(34:20):
Death Shoot, Like it literally sounded like a cart, you know,
like they were rolling somebody like down into that Nobody
was there. It's a it's a crazy it's a crazy,
crazy location that like when you and I investigated Waverley
for Kindred, there were times we had to go and
get something by ourselves in that location with no one
(34:40):
else because our crew is very small. We had left
with you and I. It's less than its seven crew
members and you and I, you know, there were times
that we were alone alone, like walking all the way
to the fourth floor to get a camera or to
get a piece of equipment. I think we even left
equipment there on accident. We were like, well left it
waver please, you know, because you wouldn't find it. But
(35:01):
it's it changes you every time that you go. It's
always haunted. And I guess, you know, listeners want to know, Amy,
are we going to go back, because if you recall,
we went to Waverley for Kindred to go to the
nurse's wing, right and to sort of close that chapter
for us, But because Tina, she had an experience that
(35:22):
was really frightening, and for Tina to have an experience
that's frightening is saying something, and so our entire purpose
I guess changed for that case. And so now we
gotta we have to go back and close that nurse chapter,
I hope. So you know, I mean, Waverley is there's
a lot going on there right now, and I am
sure that some listeners might know this, but Tina and Charlie,
(35:44):
who ran it for a long time, I think they're
still involved in some way. But then there's a historical
society that's there, and there seems to be some sort
of tension or legal thing going on, and it's really
hard from the outside, because I have the utmost respect
for Tina and Charlie, I have the utmost respect for
the historical society, and so I just really hope that
(36:05):
somehow it comes to kind of an amicable solution. So
I just I wish everyone involved with that place the best,
And you know, I think we're all kind of eagerly
watching to see what happens. But at least there are
people they're still tending to it. I know people can
still investigate it. They can go to the Waverley Hills website,
(36:25):
and I'm sure you and I will be back there
in some way, shape or form in the near future.
But you know, it's, as so many of these kind
of large historical places go, there's sometimes you know, just
trying to to keep it running gets complicated, especially with
like legal and tax issues. So hopefully they're able to
get it all ironed out. For sure, we have to
(36:46):
go back. We have to go back. We have to
go back. I know they would love to have us back.
I feel like it's made a profound impact on both
of our lives and our paranormal careers, and it's probably
done the same for so many people, paranormal and otherwise
but like I said, I couldn't think of a better
person to talk to about it because it means so
much to us. What are you up to? Like once
(37:08):
you do some, you know, shout out. I don't know,
I'm not to nothing. But what is this airing? June?
No July, July? Well, right now, if you're listening and
it's mid July, Amy and I are both on a
European cruise with Strange Escapes, that's true. We probably will
be on the cruise when this comes out. No, actually, no, sorry,
(37:29):
this is coming out June. This is a season premiere,
so June, so we will be somewhere I don't know.
We will have just finished if you're listening, we will
have just finished the Strange Escapes event at the Belvoir Winery.
That's true. Yeah, and then we're about to go on
a cruise, so hang out with us. We've got so
many things going on. We've got all these talks coming up.
(37:51):
Adam's got talks coming up, We've got events coming up.
We're leading into the busy season. So if you're listening
to this in the summer of fall of wo is
going to be crazy. Yeah, catch us, catch us if
you can yes, so well, hopefully I'll see you very soon.
I feel like I've seen him forever, so oh yeah,
I'll see you in a couple of weeks. Listeners, I
(38:12):
just saw her, but that's right, I'll see you again.
It's very confusing, okay, all right, well, thank you very much,
Mr Barry. It's a lovely time anytime I get to
speak with you, and I'll talk to you soon. You're welcome.
Knock knock. Waverley Hills Sanatorium clearly changed the entire direction
(38:37):
of my philosophy on ghosts and frankly, the trajectory of
my career as an investigator and researcher. I'm thankful for that,
but still have a lingering sense of longing and a
touch of guilt because of the spirits there. In my heart,
I know there are so many stories that remain untold
inside that massive Gothic structure, and every time I go there,
(38:59):
desperate voices begging to be heard. I implore you if
you visit Waverley Hills, have fun, of course, but please
remember the history there. Really ponder who could potentially be
reaching out to you and why. Most importantly, just listen.
(39:23):
I'm Amy Bruney, and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road
is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Mild from Aaron Mankey. Haunted Road is hosted and written
by me Amy Bruney, additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The
show is edited and produced by rema El Kali and
(39:45):
supervising producer Josh Thing and executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Haunted Road, a production of I Heart Radio
and Grimm and Mild from Aaron Minky. Listener discretion is advised.
Thank you for joining me for the season three premiere
of Haunted Road. We have some incredible episodes coming up,
and I just need to say thank you for making
this podcast the spooky success it is. If you'd like
(00:22):
to meet me in person, I am doing a fall
tour where I will be visiting and speaking in multiple
cities around the country. You can find out if I'll
be in your neck of the woods by visiting Amy
dash Brunei dot net. And if you're in the mood
for a spooky vacation, who isn't. My company, Strange Escapes
is planning retreats in Gettysburg, St. Augustine, Mount, Washington, Hawaii,
(00:42):
and more. Check that out at strange dash escapes dot com.
Sixteen years ago, I had made a pilgrimage to what
I considered to be one of the most haunted places
(01:04):
in America. Back then, I was still looking for ghosts
for the novelty of it. I hung onto each whisper
of an e v P or shadow on film like
some sort of trophy. I think many of us start
that way. This building was massive, five floors of walls
and ceilings that were crumbling, wide open windows, vines, and
trees invading rooms and threatening to take the building back
(01:26):
down with them. When you walked, the constant crunch of
tiles that had fallen from the ceiling and exploded across
the floor was all you could hear, though sometimes you'd
swear another set of crunching footsteps was right behind you.
As I split from my friends who had traveled with me,
I walked down a corridor on my own. It was
then that I tried a little experiment. I decided to
(01:49):
walk down this long hallway, and as I passed by
each door, I would wait to see if one room
in particular called to me, if I felt as though
something unseen was inside. After walking by one, two, three rooms,
I settled on the fourth door to my left. I
walked in and felt a chill down my back and
(02:09):
had a distinct feeling that I was, in fact not alone.
Then I turned on my digital voice recorder and began
quietly asking questions, who is here, what is your name?
What can I do for you? After a few minutes
of recording, I clicked off my recorder, said thank you
and left. After a full night of investigating, I headed
(02:30):
back to my hotel and retired for the evening or
morning at that point. Later that day, I hopped a
plane and headed to what was then home, California. It
wasn't until days later, when I had some free time,
that I was able to review my recordings. As I
sat with my headphones intently listening, I reached the e
v P session I took alone in that room, and
(02:52):
then I heard it, an e v P that, even
until this day causes me extreme guilt and forever changed
the path and the way I investigate altogether. What can
I do for you, I asked? A soft female voice replied,
Where did I go? How could I? How could I
have struck up this conversation? Popped a plane and waited
(03:14):
until now to hear this forlorn voice. Forever changed. I
knew this would definitely not be my last visit to
Waverley Hills in Louisville, Kentucky. I'm Amy Brunei, and welcome
to Haunted Road. In the early nineteenth century, the spread
(03:43):
of tuberculosis was at epidemic. Proportions called captain among these
men of death. The airborne disease was highly transmissible. It
attacked a person's lungs, eating away at healthy lung tissue.
Because some of the infected were asymptomatic, tuberculosis was easily
spread within those holds. By the end of the eighteen hundreds,
tuberculosis was responsible for about twenty five of the deaths
(04:06):
in America. Encompassing the city of Louisville, Jefferson County, Kentucky
was hit especially hard. It's hot, humid conditions were a
perfect breeding ground for the bacterial disease. Hospitals needed to
isolate their tuberculosis patients to prevent them from spreading the
disease to the uninfected, and the county's little tuberculosis clinic
was overrun, stressing the scant resources. Even more was the
(04:30):
fact that those in need of treatment couldn't remain at
home because they would risk infecting their loved ones. A
nineteen fifteen article in the Louisville Courier Journal quoted a
doctor Wilson who said Kentucky has the highest death rate
from tuberculosis of any state in the Union, and Louisville
and Jefferson County regularly do their part in maintaining this
(04:50):
dreadful record. Before the development of drugs that could control tuberculosis,
which wouldn't come until nineteen, doctors struggled to treat the disease.
Their advice usually consisted of some kind of restriction on
breathing to allow the lung to rest and recover, the
idea being that if the lung was less stressed, it
would have a better chance of fighting off the invasive bacteria.
(05:13):
Some of these rest treatments were truly brutal. In some cases,
patients would have a section of lung removed or would
have a lung surgically collapsed to allow the organ to rest.
In other instances, a patient would have weighted bags pressing
on their lungs to restrict the extent to which a
lung could expand during inhalation. But other treatments were much
(05:35):
more gentle. Many doctors prescribed sunlight, fresh air, and rest
to allow people to remain as calm as possible and
give their system a chance to recover. Heliotherapy, also known
as sun bathing, was a popular option, the idea being
that the sun would kill the tuberculosis bacteria. Sanatoriums usually
built high on hills surrounded by peaceful woods became an
(05:58):
increasingly popular option. Patients could rest, stay calm, and have
dedicated medical staff focused on the exclusive treatment of tuberculosis.
Because of the enormous stress on the medical resources in
Jefferson County, it was clear that the area needed a
tuberculosis sanatorium of its own. In nineteen o eight, workers
broke ground on construction of Jefferson County's new treatment facility
(06:22):
in a place called Waverly Hills. Waverly Hills Sanatorium would
eventually become an enormous hospital with four hundred beds, but
when it opened its doors to patients on July nineteen ten,
it was a humble, two story structure that could house
about fifty patients. Being at Waverly Hills was referred to
(06:44):
by locals as being on the hill, and everyone who
went there was required to stay there as a permanent resident,
and that meant everyone doctors, nurses, and other hospital staff
lived on the property and remained there subject to the
same extreme quarantine measures as patients and separate from the
general population in the outside world. The sanatorium was so
(07:05):
isolated that it even had its own post office to
limit the spread of the bacteria. As much as possible.
The sanitary requirements at Waverly Hills were strict. That same
article from the Louisville Courier Journal described the facilities procedures
at Waverly Hills. The reporter wrote, the floors are scrubbed
every day. The garbage is burned. The patients cover their
(07:26):
mouths and noses while coughing and sneezing, and their sputa
is deposited in cups and burned. The sunshine strikes the
buildings at all hours of the day. At the time
that article was published, the sanatorium had grown to have
one hundred seventy eight beds. Twenty five of them were
for children and the rest were four adults. But there
was an entire children's pavilion that sat empty and unused
(07:50):
because Waverly Hills didn't have enough funding to outfit the space.
Using photos of sickly children for emphasis, the article illustrated
that the infected young ones must continue to live in
Louisville and infect other children until the disease consumes so
much of their little bodies that, through sheer weakness, they
will take to their beds for the rests of their lives.
(08:11):
By nineteen twenty four, construction began on an expansion that
would grow Waverley Hills from its original two story facility
to a sprawling campus with a five story sanatorium in
order to meet increased demand. By nineteen twenty six, the
hospital had four hundred beds, most of which were consistently
in use. Full Recovery from tuberculosis before antibiotics was very rare.
(08:34):
Even if a person could self cure, the disease almost
always came back and was fatal in most instances. About
half of the patients admitted to Waverley Hills were in
the beginning or mid stages of TV and had a
chance of being released and going home. The others were
in advanced stages of tuberculosis and had essentially no chance
of recovery. An important feature of the hospital was a
(08:57):
five hundred twenty five foot tunnel that connected the basement
of the original hospital with the first floor of the
new building and extended to the bottom of the hill below.
It served several functions, including delivering supplies and coal to
the hospital and serving as a warmer way to ascend
the hill to the hospital during the winter. It was
also a discrete way to remove the remains of patients
(09:19):
who had passed away. Although the tunnel is nicknamed the
Body Shoot, that's not actually true. There was no actual
underground slide. Rather, the tunnel was outfitted with a rail
car system. According to the Waverly Hills Memorial Research Group,
this tunnel became an effective tool for removing corpses off
the hill in a way that the patients would not
(09:39):
see the dead taken away in hearses. Directors of the
sanatorium decided this was the best way to keep morale up.
With the development of two potent tuberculosis antibiotics in nineteen
and nineteen fifty one, respectively, the medical community finally started
to get control of the disease. By nineteen fifty seven,
the Courier Journal rep hoarded that the death rate at
(10:01):
Waverly Hills had declined fifty seven percent in the previous
ten years. In nineteen sixty one, a breakthrough in tuberculosis
treatment emerged, an antibiotic that successfully cured the disease. While
it was incredible news for those affected by tuberculosis, it
also rendered Waverly Hills obsolete. That same year, the hospital
closed its doors for good after a quarantine period renovations
(10:25):
began that converted the facility into a nursing home, eventually
known as wood Haven Medical Services. That facility was closed
in nineteen one amid horrific allegations of elder abuse and neglect.
In nineteen eighty, the Louisville Courier Journal reported that wood Haven,
one of the state's largest homes, got into trouble after
a scathing report by state licensing Director Sharon Ware. An
(10:49):
inspection found patients kept behind locked doors and generally neglected.
She reported an intense state investigation found malnourished, dehydrated patients,
shoddy care, and sloppy medical records that, in some instances
mistakenly labeled patients as diabetic. Waverly Hills remained closed for
the next twenty years. The Waverly Hills Historical Society describes
(11:12):
that period as one of pitiful abandonment, writing over the
next few decades, Waverly Hills would fall into more dark times,
vandalized damage, nearly condemned. Previous property owners had no desire
to maintain the luster of the building and did little
to stop from slowly destroying her. It is sad that
a place that played such a vital role during this
(11:32):
period of history and medical discovery was not only over,
but now disrespected. In two thousand one, current owners, Charlie
and Tina Mattingly, purchased Waverly Hills and shortly afterward founded
the Waverly Hills Historical Society, working to restore the buildings.
By that point, the hospital had acquired quite the reputation
(11:53):
as a haunted location, and with all those deaths and
all the suffering that happened inside, it was a reputation
the place had earned. In addition to an estimated six
thousand deaths from tuberculosis and disease that happened at Waverly Hills,
there were several other untimely deaths inside the hospital. In
nineteen fifty four, orderly John Lewis Griggs attacked co worker
(12:15):
Edwin a Bris, kicking and stamping him to death. Griggs
was acquitted of his murder charges because, by his account,
Briss had threatened him with a knife. There are also
reports of a nurse hanging herself in Room five oh
two after becoming pregnant out of wedlock, and another nurse
jumping off the roof to her death after being diagnosed
with tuberculosis, herself. Waverly Hills has since opened to tours
(12:39):
and is a popular site for paranormal investigation. Visitors report
seeing countless shadow people and ghostly children, including a mysterious
man in white drifting through corridors, and a spectral boy
named Timmy who roams the halls and likes to play ball.
Also frequently reported are light anomalies and apparitions in the
body shoot wave. Really Hills has such a reputation for
(13:02):
being haunted, it's often referred to by paranormal researchers as
the most haunted location in the United States, if not
the world. Over the years, I've investigated Waverly Hills many times,
including a few times with my bff Adam Bury. Adam
and I share the screen on Discovery Plus and Travel
channels show Kindred Spirits, which we filmed an episode of
(13:23):
at Waverley, and before that we were paired up on
Ghost Hunters, where we also filmed multiple episodes at Waverley.
We've had some wild experiences there over the years, so
I figured it would be fun to chat with him
about our experiences there and our theories as to why
Waverley is just so darn haunted. So that is coming
up after the break. So, since we have been chatting
(13:55):
about Waverly Hills, I thought there was no one better
to join me in the second half of the podcast
than Mr Adam Berry himself. Hello Adam Berry, Hello Amy Bruneing. Um.
I don't know how many people out there know this,
but Waverly Hills is really kind of responsible for the
(14:16):
show Kindred Spirits coming about in a way. That was
a case that we did on Ghost Hunters, and it
wasn't the first time, but it was one of the
most profound times where we left the case feeling kind
of guilty, like we had unfinished business there. And so
I don't know, can you kind of tell the story
of what happened to us at Waverly Hills and why
(14:38):
that inspired the show. Yes, So at this point in
our relationship when we did that case, we've been working
together for many, multiple years, and we had got at
that point. We had the same investigation style, we had
the same sort of belief system about what we were
trying to do as you and I right in this team.
(15:00):
And when we got to Waverley, they had opened up
a brand new corridor or a new wing, and they
called it the nurses wing. And so I remember you
and I really wanted to get in there, and everybody
went before us. That's the way it was back then.
Everybody had already investigated, you know, got in there before us.
(15:21):
But so we were the last to go, and I
think it, I think we saved the best for last
in my opinion. Right, we got into this this hallway,
and the weirdest part about it as we started hearing
these knocks, or we had asked for these knocks to happen,
because it was just an easy way for us to
just see if any you know, anybody was there, any
spirits were there. And I remember we asked for someone
(15:44):
to knock and it happened, and we both were like, oh,
that's very strange. And then we'd asked them to do
it again, and it would do it again, like immediately after.
And so we started playing around with this because you
and I had never experienced something so immediate. I would say,
like that would just continuously happen over and over again.
So like I put my hand on the window frame, uh,
(16:06):
and I said, can you knock on the wood beside
my hand? And then it would knock on the wood
beside my hand, which was bizarre, and I think we
were able to you know, we said everyone, you know,
if you're a nurse in here and you want to
talk to us and reach out to us, if you
could each knock individually so we could count how many
(16:26):
there are of you, and I think we got to
twelve or thirteen at this point. You and I wanted
to help somehow, right, like, we don't know who they are,
we don't know why they're there, but this is the
direction we were leaning towards as investigators, Like we were
done verifying that they exist. We wanted to help them.
But the only thing that we could do, you know,
(16:47):
we asked if they wanted prayer, and there was like
a bunch of knocks, and so we said, in our
own way, a little prayer. And what was insane is
like during this prayer, which probably lasted, you know, forty
five seconds to a minute, there was no knocks, no sounds, nothing,
And then as soon as we said I'm in, knock,
(17:10):
knock as if they were saying thank you. And you know,
as investigators, you think about what that is like. It's
when there was nothing happening during the prayer. Obviously it
wasn't naturally happening. It wasn't rain, it wasn't a motor
or something mechanical. They were legit listening. And then you
and I sad to say, at like three or four am,
we're going into overtime. Our camera crew has been working
(17:32):
all day long. We have to go. And as we're
leaving the nurse's wing, we just hear knocks knocks, and
they're just following us down the hallway like almost to
say like please don't go, like we're making progress, and
we we had to leave, and that was the catalyst
for Kindred Spirits because we were like, we no longer
want to leave a location without doing something to help
(17:54):
or to get a message across, Like we wanted to
do more than just verified. And that literally was it.
We were like, we're, yeah, we're done just saying there's
a spooky ghost here. We're gonna find out who they are. Yeah,
that is exactly right. And I felt like I remember
being in that area and just feeling this very heavy
guilty feeling because I think you and I could just
(18:15):
sense that whoever was there was so desperately trying to
communicate with us for whatever reason. We didn't know why,
like why they were so intent on it, and it
went on for so long, and then we still had
to leave, and I remember walking down that hallway as
those knocks continued next to us, and like just tears
running down my face because I was like, I never
(18:35):
you put your arm around me. That's the second wait. Wait,
that was the first of two times that that would
happen at Waverly exactly, and so I just remember thinking like,
this can't be it. We can't keep doing this. When
I got back to the hotel, the sun is rising,
like I can hear the birds starting to sing outside,
(18:57):
and I swear as soon as my head hit the pillow,
I heard on my wall this knock knock, Like I
was like, I remember saying out loud, I'm so sorry.
We will be back. We will be back and we
will do something more. And so whenever people ask like
how did Kindred come about, I'm like, well, let me
tell you a story about Waverly Hills. So just now
(19:19):
my my my wall cracked. They know, they know, yeah,
so it is a special place for us. I had
gone to Waverly Hills so before I was ever on TV,
I had been on a few paranormal teams, and one
of the teams I was on, we actually kind of
I lived in California at the time, and we made
(19:40):
the trip to Waverley for an organized paranormal experience, right
like an investigation. And I think they were probably twenty
of us total, which Waverly is more than capable of
handling twenty people. It's massive, and I will never forget,
like this was the first time I had ever done
one of these kind of larger scale investigations, and I
(20:02):
will never forget, like the time you could only go
in one way, and so I remember Tina maddingly then
opening the door for us to that hallway, the one
where you go down and there's that kind of that
pellet stove that was the only way in. Like once
that door closed, everything else was boarded shut. And so
I remember making that walk and as I was walking,
(20:26):
like seriously having a panic attack because I was like,
I know something is going to happen here. I am
one going to have some sort of experience in this place.
And it was just quiet, and then that door just
slams behind you, and Tina's like, I'll get you at
two I am or whatever it was that remember what
time door slam shut, and so it actually that night
(20:50):
I was there for hours and that was one of
the first really strong e v P s I got.
I mean maybe not the first, but it was a
very pelling one. I actually played it on a radio
program a few months later. So the e v P
that I got, I was on the first floor and
I was walking along. There were just a few of
(21:11):
us down there, and just kind of walking by these
old rooms. Now, back then, Waverley was a lot like
they've done a lot of work there over the years,
and that time it kind of reminded me of like
what Belvoir Winery is like, like what the Odd Fellows
is very overgrown, not trash, but just debris everywhere, like
you couldn't walk anywhere without making huge crunch crunch noises.
(21:34):
And so I was walking down that first floor and
some of the people I was with they kind of
took off, and so I was literally like by myself,
and I kind of did something that you and I
have done in recent years, where I decided I was
going to walk by these rooms, and the room that
called out to me or that felt like I should
go into, I would go into that room and do
an e v P session. So I did that and
(21:57):
I felt I walked by this room and it just
something about it drew me to it, and I went
in and I did an e VP session and asked
a bunch of questions and then stop my recorder and
left and did not listen to that recording until I
was back in California. And when I got back to California,
I was like reviewing all my evidence, which is also
(22:18):
why we do real time e v P listening now,
where we listen back right away. I can't remember what
the question was that I asked. I said something along
the lines of, you know, is someone here? Who are you?
And all I got was this really strong female whisper
in the room with me. I was by myself, and
she just said where did I go? And I was like,
(22:41):
I heard that back home in California, and I was thinking,
oh my god, who is this poor woman who asked
me this very profound question. And then I was like,
piece up, see you. You know, so you had another
But apparently I wasn't far along enough in my paranormal
career to have be a moment that maybe kind of
rethink what I was doing. But so bizarre totally, But
(23:06):
didn't you have that in the back of your mind
every time you go there afterwards? Like you know what
I'm saying, Like that's just always sort of like sitting yes, yes,
absolutely the way, and I think you agree. The way
I always view Waverley is that there are so many
spirits there and sometimes it's hard to kind of break
through individually, to get their individual stories. And it's kind
(23:29):
of like our work there is never finished, And so
is that woman still there? Has someone since gone there
and helped her? Did she figure out where she went?
Did she go where she was supposed to go? You know,
so many questions, so you and also invove, did you
do Waverley with Ghost Hunter's Academy to girl? Let me
just say so, I knew about Waverley right. The thing
(23:51):
about academy Ghostner's Academy, which we're gonna bring it if
anyone doesn't know what this is. It was a spin
off show of ghost Centers called ghost Unders Academy where
they would take quote unquote cadets. That's the cutest thing
I've ever been called ever. It's like a boy scout um.
They would take cadets and put them in like really
haunted places and then they you know, they would educate
(24:12):
Stephen Dave would educate the TAPS way of investigating, and
then they would observe and and somebody would be eliminated.
But the main thing was you did not know where
you were going, Like they would keep the locations from us,
and so we would like drive up and we'd be
like at Waverley or trans Alleghany or the Stanley Hotel,
which by the way, are like the most badass locations. Yeah. Right,
(24:33):
So the my first the first episode that I was
on was Waverly Hills and we all drove up and
there I was standing in front of this massive location
that I had known about. And so that was my
not only my first experience investigating a location like that,
like huge. Usually I was in like old houses and stuff.
But like, first off that too. I had left my
(24:57):
house at two am. It was now two m and
I was filming a TV show. So I had been
up since two am. It's now two PM, and we
didn't stop filming until four AM. So let's let's do that.
And three, it's like you're sort of like thrust into
this environment where you're like, okay, I've always wanted to
be here. This is really weird now I'm being filmed
(25:18):
being here. Plus I have to focus on everything else.
So that first day it was an absolute whirlwind. And
it was January, so you know it was it was freezing.
Oh that place gets so cold that you you don't
expect it, but there is nothing colder than Waverley Hills
in the winter because it's just cement all around you.
(25:40):
It's dangerously cold, I would say freezing frigid. And so
it's it's been so I spent twelve years, but like
I do remember, we had really crazy experiences. I think
we heard footsteps at one point that we couldn't identify.
And it was one of those places that you obviously
never forget. I mean, your first time at Waverley you
never we get. So that I did it on Academy,
(26:01):
and then you and I got to do it on
Ghost Tuners, and then you and I got to go
back for a candred you know, three times at least
at least three times, and I've been there at least
two or three times outside of filming. So yeah, it's
just one of those places I feel like we get,
you know, it is the paranormal investigators, like, what would
(26:24):
that be to other people like that? I mean, it's
like it is, it is the holy Grail. And speaking
of I had like the holy Grail of experiences there
with you when we were filming Expirits, which to this
day is probably one of the most scared moments I've
ever had investigating. And so we clearly we had made
(26:45):
contact with this angry man. He had had a lot
of issues in life and just some terrible things that
happened to him. And we first like, this guy was
just that the problem was that, and Tina brought him
up to us at the time where she was saying
that at people kept getting this man screaming on the
fourth floor and she even said she heard him scream
(27:06):
in her ear and he was coming through the spirit box.
And then I remember we did an e VP session
and we played it back and there was just this
man's screaming, and so we kind of brought up these
different stories that we had found in newspapers and he
seemed to be this man named John Mitchell. So anyway,
you and I were trying to reach out to this guy,
and he clearly wanted no part of any of this,
(27:28):
and so we're standing. So much happened at once. This
is one of those moments in paranormal investigating where like
it's really important when multiple things happened together. And so
in this case, you and I are standing on the
fourth floor. We're looking kind of down this hallway. We
feel a breeze, which on its own is not a
big deal. There's some windows missing whatever. We hear these
(27:48):
leaves kind of blowing down the corridor, which again like
they make kind of a scratching sound, but we're like, okay,
maybe that could be just the breeze. But with that breeze,
we start hearing footsteps like this, click click, click, and
you and I are like, what the heck? And so
we're staring in that direction, waiting to say, like, what
(28:09):
is happening here? Everyone the whole crew, and everyone's just
looking at each other like what the heck is going on?
And suddenly this man just appears in front of us.
And I'm staring right at this guy, like he just
flashes out of nowhere, and he looks so angry, and
he's just staring at us, and I see he's wearing
(28:31):
some sort of like kind of brownish canvasy looking maybe
almost jumpsuit thing, and then he disappears, and I'm like,
oh my god, Adam, did you see that? And I
think you saw like kind of the tail end of it,
but you saw something, and then I was just like,
what the heck. So we go down at the same
(28:52):
time this is happening. Our poor producer Brian. He's like
he had had a coughing attack that he was trying
to kind of silence is very dusty in there, and
he kept feeling someone pushing on his back the whole time,
like wow, like, and so he finally backed himself against
a wall because something wouldn't stop pushing him. At the
same time, and then you and I stand in the
(29:14):
hallway and we try to continue our e v P moment.
We're listening to it back and something grabs my arm
so much that I just jump and I think I
let out the longest stream of f bombs I have
ever Blame me for doing it. You're like you grabbed me.
You're like, you did it. Don't do that. And then
I did not do it, and we looked back at
(29:34):
the footage you didn't do it. So it was just
like this whole crazy moment where all of these things
kept happening, and I remember, I'll never forget. I think
they played it in on one of the bonus episodes,
but as we were leaving, I remember just covering my
eyes and holding on to you because I was like,
I just don't want to see that man again. I
just I mean it, I don't want to see him again.
(29:55):
And I even told Tina at the end of that,
I said, I don't know that I'll be coming back
to Waverly Hills anytime soon, Like it just really shook me.
And I have not been back since, although I haven't
had the opportunity. I'm working on it, but I mean,
I do remember the whole experience seemed like a horror
movie at a point, because with the wind and the footsteps,
we acknowledge the wind, and I even think I said,
that's free, Like that's like a horror movie. Like I say,
(30:17):
I acknowledge the oddness of the wind, just all of
a sudden picking up with the footsteps and the leaves,
and then it happens, and I did see the tail end.
I mean, I feel like he had like a brown
bowl cut kind of situation going on. I don't know,
I just remember seeing his face. He has a very
distinct look, but I got a very good look at him,
(30:39):
and he did have brown hair. Yeah, and like he
what's weird is like he's sort of manifested and then
sucked back like like it went away. It's just the
weirdest thing. It was very much him being like I
don't want to talk to any Nothing you can say
will make me feel better about what happened to me
(30:59):
and my life, and I'm just going to stay here
until I'm ready to go. Yeah. Also, well, and it
was so sad. His whole his whole story is so sad.
Someone's like a self imposed sentence of sorts, like where
he's like I'm just still grieving or something. He didn't
even die it way, really, he got moved. He did
die of tuberculosis. He got moved to a different hospital
because they moved a bunch of people I think when
it closed. And but he spent I think twelve or
(31:22):
thirteen years there. Yeah, I mean. And also before he
appeared to us, before that happened, I was using the
SLS camera and I remember it just kept getting shut
off and it was like it was fully charged, and
I would open it up and I would point it
in that direction and it would shut off, and then
I would do it again, and then it would shut off,
(31:42):
and I remember getting so mad about it. I was like,
I am so mad. Stopped messing with my equipment, and
you were like, Okay, calm down, and I was like,
I'm gonna fight. You know. It was just like it
was as if this entity, this person had a plan,
was like I'm going to show myself to you. You
know what I'm saying, Like it's like I don't want
to be used in that manner or something. I will say.
(32:07):
That was the one time, like when you were so mad,
I was like, I think something here is affecting at them,
like it really did. I was really for a moment,
I was like, is this it is this when we
finally get possessed. Is this time like like here goes
everyone's waiting for it. I mean maybe, I mean the
energy in that space is very, very strange, and you
(32:28):
and I are really tuned in sometimes to the environment,
and you know, sometimes we might not recognize it. And
if fire temperament is going in a different direction, I think,
you know, maybe we are you know, maybe we are
just being not possessed. But like affected by the energy
around us, because when you and I investigate, I feel
like there's an exchange of energy between the things that
(32:50):
we're talking to people were trying to reach in the
spirits that we're reaching out to end us. And I
think in a way that's why we get such good
evidence and good community patian because of our energy and
collective whatever. So I think maybe it is maybe we
do get slightly affected. Well, you know, it's it's like
our version of reading the room, you know what I mean.
(33:11):
It's like it happens with living people all the time.
You and I talked about this. Whenever we do like
meet and greets and things, sometimes people come up to
us and we're just like that person is having a
bad day, you know, or like like we or that
person is just really lovely and bright, and like it's
not what they're saying, it's just that energy that they're
giving off. Like you just get a feeling from people
standing in front of you and you feel that, and
(33:34):
so what's to say that that kind of feeling is
not there in the spirit world and we're not kind
of picking up on that from the dead as well.
And we've really just filled with so much that we've
really filled with so many things. And like I said
when we first started, like you will not walk into
that place and not have an experience. I know, shadow
figures are prevalent there. I've seen many. The footsteps are
(33:57):
crazy and it is almost like they're messing with you.
I don't know if you've experienced that. There walk behind
you and you stop and they stop. Yeah, it's like
it's it's one of those things like I think I
got an e v P my first time there of
the footsteps and what I swear to God was like
a rolling cart sound near the Death Tunnel or the
(34:20):
Death Shoot, Like it literally sounded like a cart, you know,
like they were rolling somebody like down into that Nobody
was there. It's a it's a crazy it's a crazy,
crazy location that like when you and I investigated Waverley
for Kindred, there were times we had to go and
get something by ourselves in that location with no one
(34:40):
else because our crew is very small. We had left
with you and I. It's less than its seven crew
members and you and I, you know, there were times
that we were alone alone, like walking all the way
to the fourth floor to get a camera or to
get a piece of equipment. I think we even left
equipment there on accident. We were like, well left it
waver please, you know, because you wouldn't find it. But
(35:01):
it's it changes you every time that you go. It's
always haunted. And I guess, you know, listeners want to know, Amy,
are we going to go back, because if you recall,
we went to Waverley for Kindred to go to the
nurse's wing, right and to sort of close that chapter
for us, But because Tina, she had an experience that
(35:22):
was really frightening, and for Tina to have an experience
that's frightening is saying something, and so our entire purpose
I guess changed for that case. And so now we
gotta we have to go back and close that nurse chapter,
I hope. So you know, I mean, Waverley is there's
a lot going on there right now, and I am
sure that some listeners might know this, but Tina and Charlie,
(35:44):
who ran it for a long time, I think they're
still involved in some way. But then there's a historical
society that's there, and there seems to be some sort
of tension or legal thing going on, and it's really
hard from the outside, because I have the utmost respect
for Tina and Charlie, I have the utmost respect for
the historical society, and so I just really hope that
(36:05):
somehow it comes to kind of an amicable solution. So
I just I wish everyone involved with that place the best,
And you know, I think we're all kind of eagerly
watching to see what happens. But at least there are
people they're still tending to it. I know people can
still investigate it. They can go to the Waverley Hills website,
(36:25):
and I'm sure you and I will be back there
in some way, shape or form in the near future.
But you know, it's, as so many of these kind
of large historical places go, there's sometimes you know, just
trying to to keep it running gets complicated, especially with
like legal and tax issues. So hopefully they're able to
get it all ironed out. For sure, we have to
(36:46):
go back. We have to go back. We have to
go back. I know they would love to have us back.
I feel like it's made a profound impact on both
of our lives and our paranormal careers, and it's probably
done the same for so many people, paranormal and otherwise
but like I said, I couldn't think of a better
person to talk to about it because it means so
much to us. What are you up to? Like once
(37:08):
you do some, you know, shout out. I don't know,
I'm not to nothing. But what is this airing? June?
No July, July? Well, right now, if you're listening and
it's mid July, Amy and I are both on a
European cruise with Strange Escapes, that's true. We probably will
be on the cruise when this comes out. No, actually, no, sorry,
(37:29):
this is coming out June. This is a season premiere,
so June, so we will be somewhere I don't know.
We will have just finished if you're listening, we will
have just finished the Strange Escapes event at the Belvoir Winery.
That's true. Yeah, and then we're about to go on
a cruise, so hang out with us. We've got so
many things going on. We've got all these talks coming up.
(37:51):
Adam's got talks coming up, We've got events coming up.
We're leading into the busy season. So if you're listening
to this in the summer of fall of wo is
going to be crazy. Yeah, catch us, catch us if
you can yes, so well, hopefully I'll see you very soon.
I feel like I've seen him forever, so oh yeah,
I'll see you in a couple of weeks. Listeners, I
(38:12):
just saw her, but that's right, I'll see you again.
It's very confusing, okay, all right, well, thank you very much,
Mr Barry. It's a lovely time anytime I get to
speak with you, and I'll talk to you soon. You're welcome.
Knock knock. Waverley Hills Sanatorium clearly changed the entire direction
(38:37):
of my philosophy on ghosts and frankly, the trajectory of
my career as an investigator and researcher. I'm thankful for that,
but still have a lingering sense of longing and a
touch of guilt because of the spirits there. In my heart,
I know there are so many stories that remain untold
inside that massive Gothic structure, and every time I go there,
(38:59):
desperate voices begging to be heard. I implore you if
you visit Waverley Hills, have fun, of course, but please
remember the history there. Really ponder who could potentially be
reaching out to you and why. Most importantly, just listen.
(39:23):
I'm Amy Bruney, and this was Haunted Road. Haunted Road
is a production of I Heart Radio and Grimm and
Mild from Aaron Mankey. Haunted Road is hosted and written
by me Amy Bruney, additional research by Taylor Haggerdorn. The
show is edited and produced by rema El Kali and
(39:45):
supervising producer Josh Thing and executive producers Aaron Mankey, Alex Williams,
and Matt Frederick. For more podcasts from I heart Radio,
visit the I heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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