January 29, 2024 • 46 mins
Isaac Mizrahi sits down with actor, producer, director and host, Michael Urie (Ugly Betty, Shrinking, Maestro). Michael shares the best thing that came out of his “Ugly Betty” experience, the surprising way he met his partner, why he’s forever entwined with Barbra Streisand and so much more.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Michael Urie @michaelurielikesit.
(Recorded on December 21, 2023)
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
The next day they called my agent and they said,
don't make any plans. You're going to Broadway. And I
had never been on Broadway, and Ugly Betty was coming
to an end.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It was just the most perfect thing.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I was going to finish Ugly Betty, and then I
had a couple of little gigs in Scotland lined up.
I was going to go spend the summer in Hia
and then come back and go into rehearsal for my
first Broadway show. And then a week before I'm going
to Scotland, I'm told, okay, there's been a snap.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
No. This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea
of success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Mizrahi,
and in this episode I talked to Broadway after TV
star director and host Michael Muri.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello, Isaac, it's Michael Uri.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I cannot wait to talk to you about all things me,
probably a little fashion, maybe some barberstreisand and you know, Bendeth, Judith,
all the ladies we love.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I am about to talk to Michael Uri, who is
a favorite. I just adore this man's work. I've seen
almost every single play he's ever done, and every single
movie he's ever done, in every TV show, and I
think we met in The Ugly Betty Days. I had
a cameo on one of the episodes, and I'm pretty
sure he was in this scene. And then I think
(01:25):
he was on Project Runway All Stars when I was
a judge on that show, and we met again. And
he's been this kind of like shining star in the distance,
and I've always wanted to like dig in and really
get to know him. And so the challenge today is
how to sort of fit it all into like a
faint little hour. So anyway, without wasting any more time,
(01:48):
let's get straight to it. Well, Michael Yuri, don't you
look chiseled? You look a little thinner to me, what's
going on with you?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
It's the Broadway Dive. Yeah, we're doing you know, eight
shows a week. You know what It's like. It's relentless,
and this is a big song and dance show. I'm
dancing my butt off and singing like crazy. And then
there's like the rest of the life, and I go
to Pete and I get voice lessons and so like
there's just a it's a tough schedule.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It's a big schedule. When do you eat, Because if
you eat before a show, you're going to be sick
on stage. If you eat after the show, you feel
like Elle the whole night.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So I used to be a person who after a
show could eat a huge, giant meal. And actually last
night I broke my rule and I did eat a
pretty big meal. But now these days I don't. I've
been intermittent fasting me too, So I take sixteen hours
away from eating, and then I eat whatever I want
for eighty hours, and it's really great. I mean sometimes
(02:52):
I go a little nuts, like about an hour before
the fasting is done, I go a little crazy.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I don't go crazy. I have to tell you, as
you get get older, like eating whatever you want darling
changes drastically, because if you really eat whatever you want,
you're just gonna gain way.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know what I noticed about intermittent fast because I
work out also, and I've been in other Broadway shows
and and I've always been basically slim. But I noticed
with the interimate and fasting that things that I could
never get rid of, like like weird little back fast.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Back rolls, back rolls.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Like these weird little things that, like no exercise could
get rid of or I couldn't figure it out. The
intermittent fasting did it, and they like went away. And
also I never get bloated anymore. I never get weird
tummy issues at all anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It's so great.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So I generally, except for what I break rolls like
last night, I don't eat after the show, but I
do eat kind of right before the show.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But I don't eat anything heavy right before the show.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I'll have like a turkey wrap or a soup or
like a smoothie or something.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Right before the show.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
What sign are you?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'm a Leo?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
You're a Leo? Forget? Seriously, I would never never guess
that in a million years. I don't know why I
don't get Leo from you at all? What's your ascendant?
Do you know which one is that? That's like your
rising sign?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So eight eighty is my birthday?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Oh I don't know it. I can't do the math.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And I was born at like one pm. I forget.
I used to know all this.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Well, if you're an astrologer and you're listening and you
can figure it out from that, just text us please
quickly now, only because do you believe in any of that?
Are you religious.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
No, no, no, okay, none of that.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I love that religious. I never had religion. My parents
weren't religious. And then when I was a kid, I
grew up in Texas. I'm from the suburbs of Dallas mostly,
and in that area, at least when I was there,
small talk was what church do you go to? Even
as a kid, and I remember one day asking my parents, what.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Do I say?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You don't go to church? What do I tell people?
And they said, just say you're Unitarian?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Oh nice, that would shut a lot funny. Wow, wait
a minute, so you're from Texas. That's kind of sexy
that you're from Texas, right, and that you've come so
far from Texas? Like did you see a show in Texas?
Did they bring you to New York to show you things?
I mean, what happened? How did you get here?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
They took me to theater in Dallas. We would go
see shows.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
My dad loved West Side Story of the movie, so
we went to see that when it was on tour
through Dallas and Peter Pan with Kathy Rigbee.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
We saw when I was a kid so cool.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And then I started to get into theater because when
I was a little kid, I wanted to make movies.
I wanted to be a director. I wanted to be
like Tim Burton or Steven Spielberg, and so that was
my first thing. And I was like, I guess I
should do theater. That's the closest thing to any of this.
They made me go on stage because we didn't have
enough boys to do Fiddler on the roofs. So I
wanted to be like the assistants director, but they said, no,
you have to be on stage. We don't have enough boys.
(05:49):
The tradition song just doesn't work. So once I got
bitten by the bug, once I got like a laugh
on stage, I was like, Okay, now I want to
see every musical. I want to see every play in town.
And my parents were great, it would take me to
see all the shows. There's a lot of community theaters,
there's some regional theaters. There's a lot going on, and
so we would go to Fort Worth to see shows.
(06:09):
We would go to Dallas, is C shows. There were
shows in my town of playing them, and in fact,
I just went back last spring and directed a play.
Since I left, there's a theater company called Uptown Players,
which is this fabulous LGBTQ theater company. They just did
like a big queer Christmas show. They're going to do
the prom that great music.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I love the prom.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So I went back to Dallas last spring and I
directed a play with this theater company, and I got
to re immerse myself in the Dallas theater scene and
it was very cool. It was really special. But to
your point about New York and theater. This summer, after
I graduated from high school, I went on a field
studies trip with my local community college. So I just
(06:49):
graduated my high school. I'm seventeen years old. I know
I'm going to go to this community college because I
had bad grades and I decided I wanted to be
an actor instead of a director, and I like sort
of switched gears in my last couple of so I
was like, I'll just stay stay home, save money, go
to the community college. They did a lot of shows,
a big theater program there, and they had this field
(07:09):
study strip, which was a selling point because I'd never.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Been to New York at this point.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Oh god, So I go with these.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
People basically strangers, these teachers that I'm going to be joining.
A couple of people I knew that were like also
in my high school and we go to New York
for ten days and we see thirteen shows and we
stay at the Milford Plaza hotel, which is right around
the corner from my spamlat Theater.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Now, right, that was crazy. And that's what you think
New York. You think forever and ever and ever. Like
when I went to Paris for the first time, I
stayed in the Latin Quarter and I stayed near the
Saint Germain, And that's what I think of as Paris,
like forever and ever and ever. You think that New
York is like Times Square, Milford Plaza and like the
(07:54):
inside of the show Port Authority exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Absolutely, yeah, And we flew into JFK or whatever, and
then we took a bus to the Port Authority. So
my first step into Manhattan was the Port Authority and
then walking from that pit up to the Milford Plaza
and then our rooms were ready, So we were like waiting,
and our teacher had arranged talkbacks with a lot of
(08:20):
the casts and crews of the shows.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Very cool it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So he wanted to drop off letters. He probably had
a cell phone, but there was no email really, and
so he wanted to drop off letters at all the
stage doors and we're waiting for our rooms news, like,
does anybody want to go with me to drop off
letters at the stage doors? And no one raised their
hand and I was like, I'll go.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Of course, you'll go. Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And it was so cool and that's when I was like, wait,
they're all right here. All these theaters are right next
season and we just boom boom bounced. It was so
so cool. And we saw.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Thirteen shows and toured NYU and Juilliard.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Witch like, which shows did you see?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
The first one was Ragtime original cast of rag Time, incredible,
Podra Stokes, Peter Friedman.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Leah Michelle.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We saw a New Brain off the Broadway at the
Midsy New House, A New Brain with my Malcolm gets
the Bill, Finn Musical, Mary Testa normal Mary Testa.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You had me we must go on?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, oh you would love a New Brain. W It's
a beautiful score from the guy who wrote Falsettos, all right.
And then we saw Fantastics when it was still down
on Sullivan Street and we saw, oh, this amazing production
of Twelfth Night was playing at the Vivian bomm Helen
Hunt and Kiras Sedgwick and Paul Rudd night gorgeous, and
(09:47):
it was the first time I was like, Shakespeare is incredible, incredible.
And then we toured Juilliard and my teacher was like,
this place might be right for you. You should audition for
this place. And I was like, are you kidding me? Juilliard?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
No way.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And because of that encouragement, whenever the next round came
along the following January, I auditioned for Juilliard and I
got it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Wow, you see teachers, Darling. Is there any other more
important profession in this world than teacher? Right? No way, No,
it's incredible. It's really amazing that they noticed that in you.
It's so fabulous. We didn't even really know who was
in your class at Juilliard. Were there any other like
actors and actresses that we might know of who were
in the class.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
There was this one woman who you who, poor thing.
It's Jessica Chastang.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I don't know why that to her.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
You may have heard right exactly. She was in my
class over the four years. She was my sister, she
was my mother.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
She was my sister. Why mother, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
But she was fabulous, amazing, brilliant, Luke McFarlane was in
my Oh, well he's I do.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Know him, actually I know him. Yeah, So it was
an awakening this time that you came to New York.
Do you live in New York now?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Absolutely live in New York.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
This closet is is right, you know, a pre war
building on the Upper West Side and.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You work in La too. I love your show. I
love Shrinking and it's coming back right, like, I'm so
excited it's coming that correct. Yes, they shoot that show
in La probably right right. And do you have a
place there? Do you stay at an Airbnb?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I used to have a place back in the Ugly
Betty days.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I got a place, and like minutes after I bought
a place in LA, they moved the whole show to
New York, which I love because I love New York.
But it was also like when I have this house
and so I eventually I rented it. It was an apartment,
and then eventually I sold it. And I didn't have
a place for a long time, so I would either
make them put me in a hotel if I went
(11:43):
out for work, or stay with a friend or an airbnb.
For Shrinking Season one, I rented this little house in
Silver Lake for the duration. And you know, I lived
in the house growing up, but then I've lived in
apartments ever since. But during the pandemic, I became obsessed
with house life. All I wanted to do was live
(12:03):
in a house because we were cooped up in an
apartment for two years. So now anytime I get a
chance to live in a house, I do. And so
when I was doing that thing in Dallas, I lived
in a little house. I don't even need a big house.
There's something about sharing walls, walking through a lobby. I
don't want to do that, right.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know what, though, I have always had a doorman, okay,
Like even when I was renting a shitty apartment on
West End Avenue for four hundred dollars, it had a doormat.
I need to know that someone is taking the bullet
for me in the lobby, okay, because I need to
know that I am one of like several many doors
that the crazy you know, axe murderer can pick someone
else's apartment and not mine, you know what I mean.
(12:40):
I have difficulty in houses, you know. I have a
little shack ish kind of place in Bridgehampton. There are
so many houses on my street, Like, who would really
pick my silly little shack to go and sort of
home invade when you could have like the fabulous, giant,
sort of Moorish estate down the block. Why would you
pick my little shack? You know you're not going to
get much out of it, right, So I guess maybe
(13:03):
because you were raised in a house or something. Maybe
that's what it was like that you missed about it
or something. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And when I left my house and I moved to
New York, I said, I never needed to live in
a house again. I'll only ever live in apartments in
New York. And it was I think the pandemic was
a big thing. It's like, we lived on the seventh
floor of a building at the time, and.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
We just felt trapped. I felt trapped.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And we have a dog, so we had to walk
the dog every day, three four times a day. And
so when we were when we were really scared.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I remember the power, really, I do remember. And I
have to tell you my husband and I were in
my shack with my two dogs in Bridchempton and it
was amazing, and he felt trapped there. He needed to
come to New York City. And when it was really scary.
He actually wore two masks and he took an uber
to New York City and I was like, you are crazy,
and I think we're breaking up. I thought we were
(13:49):
breaking up. I really did. And then it was really great.
It was like he's there and I'm here, and it
was kind of nice to be like separate, you know,
not driving each other crazy. Sure, but back to you
and back to like you're awakening as both an actor
and as a gay entity in New York City, because
I'm imagining growing up in Dallas. Was it easy in
(14:12):
the eighties or the nineties. It's never easy, But I think,
tell me, well.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I was born in eighty so by the time I
started to like have the thoughts and start to think
that kind of life would be possible, it was the
mid late nineties. But I have an older sister who
is queer, and she's seven years older than I am,
and so she sort of went through all that ahead
of me in Texas. In our house, she sort of
(14:39):
like laid the groundwork, so like it was complicated, and
I knew that in Texas I could only be a
certain amount queer. But I was also in theater and
in speech, and debate. I would do these competitions where
we would go and compete. So not only was I
like learning about plays in theater classes, but I was
(15:01):
working on plays and speech and debate because we would
put together these excerpts from plays and go compete with them,
and I would see so much. So like in high school,
I knew Angels in America. I knew Love Valor Compassion,
I knew as Is, I knew Torch Song, I knew
all of these plays, and so that world was already
(15:21):
exposed to me.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
The world of gay theater, for instance, is what you're trying.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So the world of gay theater and the world of
like New York, I understood that.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I knew that was a possibility.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And I also had this sister that was like super
cool and like her world was like sports and then
like mental health, and also in a way queer women's
sports is also in its way queer, but certainly not
like theater is queer.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Certainly not like theater is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Like putting it front and center and publishing it and
putting it on film, you know, Like I mean, I
remember seeing the movie of Love Valor Compassion when I
was in high school and being like, I'm like, god,
this is so exciting. So like, by that time when
I got to New York, which was like ninety nine,
I was pretty ready, but I was shy, and there
were people around me that were not shy that sort
(16:09):
of helped me like out of my shell. But I
was lucky my sister came out before I did, and
my parents were really cool. Like when my sister came out,
it was like what it was in the early nineties.
My parents were like, we have no idea that we
love you, but what And so by the time I
came out, they'd sort of smoothed all that out and
they were great and have been.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Oh, it's just so amazing, so amazing to hear like that,
your two generations after me, and you're talking about like
they barely knew what it was. And when I came out,
it was looked upon as a sickness, an illness. So
describe like, was it a culture shock for you coming
to New York and actually having a bar that you
could I mean, I'm sure there are gay bars in Dallas,
(16:51):
but did you go to them?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
No?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
No, no, I never went to any bars in Dallas
of any kind. I mean because I wasn't allowed to
drink yet, you know, I came to I never.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Stopped anyone before, but go on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well in New York, I don't know if you still can.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But when I moved to New York, you could get
into bars, like there were lots of bars you could
go to underage and they didn't care. In Dallas, that
wasn't really a thing. And also we were driving, and
I wasn't really into drinking or drugs in high school.
In the year at community college, I remember going to
like house parties and drinking, but I didn't smoke pot
until I moved to New York or anything like that.
(17:26):
But when I stepped foot in New York for the
first time, when I left the Port Authority that day
and I was on Eighth Avenue in the summertime in
nineteen ninety eight, and it was stinky and hot and
gross and scary, I was like, this is home.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Of course, you sign me up. Where do I sign?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I was exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And then like a year later, when my parents brought
me to New York to move me into Juilliard, we
drove from Dallas to New York, parked family in Jersey's house,
and we took the bus into the Port Authority and
we came out and we stayed I think at the
Howard Johnson's a few blocks before. I walked us there.
(18:06):
I was like, I know the way, let's go. And
my dad had never been to New York before. My
mom hadn't been since she was a kid. And I
remember my dad turning to my mom and saying, we're
gonna leave our son.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Ah, like he couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
But I was like, no, this is where we go.
I know this is north, this is South. I know
how to get there. And then Juliard is just another
few blocks this way, and I did, and I led
us everywhere and I was home and when they dropped
me off when it was time to go, I was like, okay.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Okay, go bye bye bye bye, love you bye.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
You got famous pretty young. I mean, how old were
you when you did Ugly Betty?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think I was twenty five when we shot the
pipe Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And when it came on TV, I was twenty six.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And then like every day in the world knew who
you were, right, yeah? And so did you do a
lot of hooking up and dating? What was that like?
Being so kind of fame and gay, famous gay, and
Dishy also kind of adorable.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's so interesting because I didn't come out publicly at first.
I think it was between season two and three, or
maybe like the beginning of season three, because back then
Ellen was out and you were out, you know, like
a few people were out. But it was during that
time that NPH was outed, right, So it wasn't like
a thing yet.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Except you were playing a big gay on this show.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
So I was playing a big game, so everyone assumed,
and I wasn't in personally, but like people that I
knew knew it, but I wasn't like talking about in
the press. So like when people win, the press would
want to talk about it, I wasn't. So I was
a little bit careful, but not really. And early on,
maybe even before the show was on TV, a good
friend of mine had a birthday party and at the party,
I noticed one of his friends who I thought was really,
(19:47):
really cute, and I said, what's the deal with this guy?
And he was like, oh, you guys would be so
great to get I'm setting you up. And he set
us up and we talked on the phone and we
were supposed to have a date and then because a
friend of mine, I canceled the date, and then I
never really rescheduled. And that was because the show came
on and suddenly I was like, I was famous, I
(20:11):
was in magazines. I was getting recognized at the grocery store,
and I was like, oh, I don't want a boyfriend,
I want lots of right, and that guy seemed like
boyfriend material, and so I the first couple of years
of the show, I had a lot of fun and
I dated a bunch of different people.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And then they moved the whole show to New York.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And around that time, a different mutual friend had just
moved to New York and said, my other friend just
moved to New York, and you know him. You were
supposed to go on a date with him years ago,
And I was like, you know what, I would love
to make that happen again. Anyway, that's Ryan and we've
been together fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
You're kidding, this is amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, wow, this idea that like when I was first
on TV and first famous and like young and cute
and everybody knew who I was. That's the reason that
Ryan and I didn't see each other in the first place.
And if we had it wouldn't have worked, would have
come back right?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Well, you know, I have to tell you something. I mean,
I wasn't on a TV show, but I was a
very known personage, and I had my face on magazine
covers and stuff, and people knew who I was, and
that before Grinder Darling, there was a phone line where
you would beep to the next caller. It was very dangerous,
but you know, I like a little danger. And you
would meet occasionally and people would go and you are
(21:26):
and I'd say Paul and one of them said, oh,
really your Paul. Paul What And I said Paul Smith.
And then I realized, like, oh shit, no, I'm not Paul's.
I mean Paul you know Paul Dumpling, so that you
know Paul Smith. I mean, of all things, it was
so funny right now, but you know, these things happened.
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Did you have a coming out moment? Did you have
like a public coming out?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
You know, when I launched my company about six months later,
there was a cover story about me on New York magazine,
and you know, they asked and I said yes. Because
an advance of being famous, I had this great psychic,
and she said, you know, you should think about what
you're going to say because soon you're going to be
in the public eye. So I thought, well, you know,
I worked for all these queens and none of them
(22:09):
were out, and it's also boring. Why don't they just
come out? Come on? You know, we all know, everybody knows.
How do you lie? Right? So I decided I wasn't
gonna lie, so I said it in the article and
then people were calling Darling, I'm so sorry you were
outed in New York magazine and I thought, no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not outed. I meant to come out. So it's
like yeah, wow, yes, fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You know, when Ugly Betty came on and I was
suddenly famous, people were like, don't come out, and they
were like, you can play this one gay part, but
don't take.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Any other gay part.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Wow, And I got another gay part. It was the
Temperamentals that play, which I think you can to see.
It was about the managing Society, and I played Rudy
Gernreich and I.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Was playing another gay.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh huh.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I was playing this other gay in fashion that was
completely different than Ugly Betty, different genre, different medium, different
different kind of characters, different period, different style. So I
was like, well, here I am playing another gay part
and it's nothing like this.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
They're wrong.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I don't have to be pigeonholed as gay. That was
the thing that everyone thought, you're gonna get pigeonholed as gay.
And I'm like, there's lots of gay, there's lots of
ways to be gay. I don't have to say no
to these other parts. And by the way, if I did,
I wouldn't work. Like they're getting other parts. They're not
coming my way. Sometimes I get straight parts, I get
a lot of asexual parts, and I get a ton
(23:28):
of queer parts, and great.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Great, I'm finding I mean, I'm even quoted as saying
that you think gays should play gays, especially when it's
about sex or their sexual identity of something. Do you
think we should be able to play straight people too?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
That was probably something I said at a time when
there were too many straight people playing gay people exactly,
and it was more like, we need to course correct, right,
and then once we've course corrected, we can like reevaluate.
But there's too many gay actors that leave the business
because they're not getting their own roles and they're losing
out to straight people. And I feel like there's a
pendulum situation going on because I think that a straight
(24:06):
person could play a gay person and vice versa. We
just kept giving them oscar and giving them tight right
and giving them empty playing, and that's what it was like,
all Right, we got to really think about this and
reevaluate this. And there was a point where I was like,
if you're playing a gay character and their problem has
to do with their queerness, you should you should be authentic, right,
(24:30):
it should be an authentic situation. And that's not to
say that like you couldn't act it. I realized, like
we're actors right now. I am playing medieval Night of
the Round Table. Obviously that's not authentic, but that doesn't
mean that I can't do it. It's also Monty Python sketches.
We're all playing lots of characters. But there was definitely
(24:51):
a point, and I think we're sort of moving past
it because there's so much representation now. I mean, we've
got Fellow Travelers that is huge, and all these people.
We had that Great Boys in the Band on Broadway
with all those queer people, so like it's happening. It's
starting to work. Plus like these young people like Heartstopper
and like it's.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
It's oh wow, beautiful, it's so good. I loved it, Oh, Starling,
so thinking of appearing on stage, you seem built for this,
like you really like it, and there's no part of
you that goes like, what the fuck have I done?
I have so much stage fright, I have so much dread.
You don't go through that.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I get stage fright from time to time if it's
something really challenging and I don't feel ready, or if
it's like a big moment. I have a big song
and spam a lot, and some nights I get get
like nervous. And there are things that I do, like
I have this long patter song and spam a lot,
and I go through the lyrics before every show, like
(25:50):
right before I do the song backstage, I go through
the entire lyric, and it's become a superstition. I don't
think I need you anymore, but I do that. And
I've never been superstitious in that way.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh, but theater will make anybody superstitious.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Starling, Yeah, totally. And I think part of it is
the repetition. Like this show we've been doing it for
since Halloween was our first performance. And there's this moment
where Leslie Chritser, who is brilliant, and she kills she's.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Such a good show. And second part such a funny part,
and she leaves.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Stage right and she goes all the way around and
there's a part where she rounds a corner and Taran Killham,
Chris Fitzgerald and I are just waiting. We're just hanging
around there waiting, and one night she came around and
we were like, oh, like we startled her. And now
every night, oh, she comes around that corner. We do
a bit. Every single performance we do is something different.
I once lost sleep thinking about bits.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
We could do.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I was like, I was like, oh, what if we
did we were all like being frist by the police.
What if we were all like laying dead on the ground.
So now we have to do it. It's become a superstisior.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We have to do so.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Like I don't have a problem memorizing things. I really don't.
That's how I fall asleep. I memorize Shakespeare friends. So
I just like that, right. But the thing is the
minute it becomes seems study, and the minute I'm doing
it with a partner, I'm like, was that again, any
old damn thing that I'm supposed to have memorized? And
(27:14):
I worked really hard on memorizing it. And then Darling,
there's the brain fart.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I had a big number in Chicago last year in
the show Chicago exel Aphane, and for some reason, my
music would happen Da Da Da Da da, and I
would like I grew up with that show. I went
to see like the original original cast before that, and
so I knew this number. And the conductor came backstage
it was like, Darling, do we need to I'm like no,
(27:40):
And Charlotte Dunbois, who's a genius, She's like, Darling, drilling.
I'm like, it's not about drilling. It's not about drilling.
It's not it's just this moment that happens. And by
the way, the audience never knows. I don't know how
they miss it. Why do they miss it?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, because they take this show in face value. They
just assume it's perfect.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Right us. It's just obviously unless you fall and hurt
yourself and start bleeding with something right right.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
They will buy anything.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I can't tell you how many times I've had a
huge mistake and somebody comes back after the show and
I'm like, god, did you see that mistake? And they're like,
I thought that was part of right. It's amazing that
it was intentional.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
So do you like better performing on stage or being
in a studio with you know, Vanessa for it? Well,
you wouldn't want to be in a studio Vanessa for
the rest of eternity. Vanessa Williams, Oh, my god.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
The most yeah, oh, most perfect job I think ever,
you know, like it's bittersweet. I think to have a
job so good like that early in the career because
everything else will have to like be compared to it.
On the one hand, but on the other hand, I
know that some people will never have that have the
perfect a plus job like that, where it's your big break,
(28:50):
you get paid well, the material is incredible, you get.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Famous, people are lovely, they're lovely, people are amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And it ended after four years, so I'm not tied
to it forever, Like, yeah, it always comes out, but
it's not my Seinfeld or my friends.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You know, it was a great moment, but we're not
stuck there. We weren't.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Wow by the way, you weren't even thirty when it finished.
Fuck you okay exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I was twenty nine when we had But the best
thing that came out of that show for me was
working with Vanessa, Judith Light, and Tommy Plana, who were
the elders on that show, and then America, who was
like the second youngest on the show. These four people,
I mean, and everybody else too, of course, but like
(29:36):
learning from them, learning from someone younger than me, America,
how to be a leader, watching this young person be
not only brilliant in the show, like flawless in the show,
but lead a cast, lead a crew. And then to
watch Vanessa and learn how to be famous.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
I mean, and learn how to be so gorgeous and
smell good. And also Judah Judith, is there anybody more
like Divide? I shot a pilot with Judith a long
time ago called Born in Brooklyn and didn't get picked up.
And she would say, Darling, when you moved to LA
I have some dogs. We'll get out dogs together. And
I was like, what is she talking about? You know?
(30:16):
Of course right like Judith Flight was ready to be
like my best friend, and that never happened. By the way,
next time you speak to Judith Teller, I'm still waiting
to be her best friend. You're still waiting.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
But she's like, I learned how.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
To treat people from Judith Light because she she is
so professional. And there's this this is sort of the
joke in Like La, Like, if you're in West Hollywood
and you run into any gay person, they're close personal friends.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
And exactly, Darling, if you are on Eighth Avenue in
New York City and you run into any gay in
any bar, they are close personal friends with Judith Light.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
And they are like, that's the thing. They actually I'm
not yet.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
So fuck you. Get her on the phone, tell her
to be my damn best friend. Judith, if you're listening,
call me up. Okay, seriously, I have a habit and
the Hamptons that has your name on it. All right, seriously.
You know you talk about a lot about your successes.
(31:18):
Is there a failure that kind of shaped you in
some way?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, I had a great one.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
When you look at it with hindsight, it wasn't a failure,
but at the time it was awful. It was the
hardest thing I've ever gone through, probably in my life.
But on the flip side, this lesson was as important
as Ugly Betty. I have this tendency to ask for parts,
or beg for parts, or weasel my way into jobs.
(31:43):
It happens all the time. It happened with Spam a lot.
It happened with Ugly Betty. I found out Ugly Betty
was happening. I put two and two together. The cast
and director had just seen me in something, and I
think this might be right for me. This role looks interesting.
Get me in. And my agents were like, we're not sure.
We're not sure, and I was like, just get me in.
I need a job. I think I could get this.
And I got it. And it's happened a lot of
(32:03):
times for me. And so Ugly Biddy had just come
on and I was hosting something. It was a point foundation,
if I remember correctly, and they were honoring Hairspray. The
movie of Hairspray was coming out, and Craig Zaden and
Neil Marrin, the producers of Hairspray, were there and I
met them and they were really fine and we had
a really fun night together. They had produced a bunch
of things for TV musicals for TV, and I was like,
(32:25):
you know what you guys should do, how to succeed
in business without really trying, and I should be in it.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And so cut to a couple of years later it's
announced that they're doing it with Daniel Radcliffe and I'm like, okay,
this is my chance.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I love this production, yes so much.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
It was a great production. He was a great idea
for it. They were great producers for it. And I
was like, okay, this is happening. I need to be
in this show. I want to play the villain. Bud
Trump is one of the great comic roles. I saw
Roger Bart in Dallas on tour when he came through
with Ralph Maccio, and so I told my agents, was like,
(33:02):
I want this.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I want to get in on this. So they had
me go in and sing.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Craig and Neil were like, we remember, we know you
want to do this, and I went and sang. They said, great,
you'll do the workshop and we'll see what happens. And
there was a workshop which was basically like a tryout
for the Estate. It was really for the Lesser Estate,
Frank Lesser.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Who wrote the music and lyrics.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It was the first Lesser to see if this was right,
This was the right director. Dan Radcliffe was right, and
so we did it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
It went great. She loved him. He was great.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And then like the next day they called my agent
and they said, don't make any plans. You're going to Broadway.
And I had never been on Broadway and Ugly Betty
was coming to an end. It was just the most
perfect thing. I was going to finish Ugly Betty. And
then I had a couple of little gigs in Scotland
lined up. I was going to go spend the summer
(33:56):
in Europe and then come back and go into rehearsal
for my first Broadway show. And then the week before
I'm going to Scotland, I'm told, okay, there's been a snap.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
No.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes, the Lesser Estate loves you, and yes the director
and the producers love you. But there's another estate, the
Burrows Estate. A Burrows who wrote the book and directed
the original production.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
You know Lester's partner.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
They made a few shows. They did, they they did
how to succeed, they did most happy Fella. The Burroughs
Estate needs to see you. And I was like, what
I have to basically audition for the first time, and
they audition is the day I'm leaving for Scotland. So
that morning I go in and I audition, and then
I go to the airport and I'm waiting in line
(34:45):
at security when I get the call that I have
lost the part.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Oh no, oh no, I have lost it.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
And the producers are like, we're going to fight this.
We're going to fight this. This isn't over yet it
was over.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And so I spend the first month in Scotland bereft,
just so upset, thinking what am I going to do.
I'm miserable. I'm here in Scotland doing these weird, weird jobs.
I should be back. I should be a pilot season.
I shouldn't be here, you know, I should be like
I'm trying to get back on teaving my big job.
I follow up is gone? Who am I with?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Nine? Who's gonna want me in a year? Fuck you? Okay?
Go on, go on, go on.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And so I spend the summer in Scotland. It ends
up being wonderful. I'm there all summer and it takes
a while to get over it. The movie I shoot
is really great, and then I do a show at
the Fringe festival in Edinburgh, which is really fun.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's playing. I love Edinburgh so much. It's a great festival.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
It's so perfect.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I turned thirty in Edinburgh and I get home and
I'm like, wait a minute, I don't have anything. Oh
this sucks now what now? What am I supposed to
do with my life? And it takes a while for
me to sort of pick up the pieces and figure out,
like what am I with?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Out this job? And I get some things. I do
some cool things.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I end up getting to replace in the off Broadway
production of Angels in America, which was really special. I
get a pilot or two. You know, some things happen,
and then my agent calls me. She's like, are you
sitting down? I was like, what, you know? How to
Succeed has been running for a year, right, Yeah, Well
they're going to do some cast changes and they want you.
(36:26):
And I was like, okay, but what about the Burrows estate.
They're like, Burrow's Estate's not involved anymore. It doesn't matter.
And I get to do it.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
But Radcliffe was still in it when you were in it,
wasn't he.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
No, no, he left Nick Jonas and I, oh it
was so Nick Jonas replaced.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Okay, I love that you practically created the idea for
the show, and then right, and then you didn't get
the job fired from Jesus Christ, and then you got
re hired. You know what, Let's put this out there,
a revival of Victor Victoria starring me. Oh that is,
you know, as the old Robert Preston part.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Right, come on, can't you.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
See me doing that night after night?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Oh that's my part? Who would be your Victor Victoria?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I don't know, somebody not as good as me? So
I would shine really brightly every night. That is that sad?
Wait a minute, but now I have a real, really
important question. This is why I am conducting this interview.
Did Barbara streisand mention buyers and sellers? And my name
is Barbara? Because I didn't get there yet. I'm midway
(37:36):
through the book.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah, I haven't read the book or listened to the book,
but I feel like I would have heard by now
right right right?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I always hear, you always hear.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
The gays do not let you forget it.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I am forever entwined with that woman, and I haven't
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
So oh shit shit, man, but she does.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I mean, I assume she talks about the mall.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I mean, she talks about the mall to everyone who
will listen. Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
She shows she's done it with Gale, she did it
with every single fucking Steven Colbert. Anyone who wants to
go to that mall can go. But you, Darling, did
you ever go? Did you ever go to the mall? No?
I never met Come on, you never met Barbara? Okay, well,
if you get me Judith Light, I'll get you Barbara Streisand.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Are you not? Really?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
We were for a minute and then I guess she
met Donna Karen and the rest is history. You know,
it's like, really, Donna I got replaced by Donna Karen, Darling, listen,
stick together, all right, Well, you're in spam a lot, right,
But then they just announced that you're going to be
in Princess and the Peas, I mean, Once upon a Manchester.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
So I'm having a medieval music from one.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Medieval musical to one medieval right, But tell me when
does that rehearsal start? Like, is it overlapping? Are you
gonna be like Julie Andrews in the back of the
woody going from Connecticut to like one play to the
next play across town.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I will have the root from City Center to the
Saint to see their down path, right.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
You know it's one of these encorese shows. Have you no, No?
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I love it. Tell them I want to do these shows.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
You should do one. I mean it's divine. This will
be my fourth time doing not Encores, but the Broadway
Center stage in DC where we started spam a lot.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
They do the same thing. You rehearse for two weeks
and then you do it for two weeks. On course, you.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Rehearse for two weeks a whole musical wow, and then
you do it for two weeks.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
And then if you're not off book, they kind of
come for you like they did. It was Dear World,
I think it was Donna Murphy and they were like, hey, Donna, Oh,
why are you on book? And the excuse me, I
had two weeks to do this huge and you got
COVID and can't you just get over it? You know,
but we've Donna alone, Leave Donna alone. We should pick
it in front of City Center. We really should.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's very funny.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
When I did the first time I did an Encore show,
there was a point in rehearsal where we were rehearsing
something and the director was like, well, this will be
much easier when you're not carrying the script.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
And I was like, oh, really, oh, I won't be
carrying this. Good. Do you have a problem memorizing things? No?
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Not really really none. If it's good writing, If it's
good writing, it's really easy, because it's the best way
to say. I actually think Shakespeare is the easiest too,
to remember, only because there's no other way to say.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
It exactly exactly. He juxtaposed his words next to each other.
That you will never never forget, you know, like who
would fartles bear? Who would fartles bear? Really?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Okay, well, that you will never wear? Exactly? When are
you going to do Hamlet? Darling? I did it? When
did I missed this?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
When I did it in Washington, DC at the Shakespeare
Theater down there, and Michael Kahn was my teacher at
Juilliard And it was really cool, you know, like a
part that I always wanted to play, of course, and
it was this big, expensive production and it was fabulous.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I loved it. I loved it. I got to do
it twice.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
We did it and then we remounted it.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, that's a big commitment. How long do you get
to rehearse that that?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
We rehearsed for like six weeks?
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, I guess, which is great.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
You know, like a week just at the table with
just a few people, and then another couple of weeks
with everybody at the table, and then you start putting
it up.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
And then you start wearing medieval clothes again and you're
all set right with it.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Actually a modern dress production, oh, which is really cool.
So we had like cell phones and guns and stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It was cool.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
It was really accessible and also my Hamlet was kind
of funny, and the audience really liked that. Not all
the critics liked it, but you know, like Shakespeare is
intimidating to audiences and when you can help them. The
thing I think about Shakespeare is if you're understanding what
we're saying, it will be funny because you're like, oh
my god, I get it. And so when the audience
is laughing, it's not necessarily because we're being silly or
(41:42):
funny we're telling jokes. It's because they're following it and
they're enjoying.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yes, yes, and like Tolstoy of something or proofs or whatever.
It's really funny no matter what. Like Shakespeare had a
very good sense of humor, which is why the tragedy
is so deeply felt, because for the most part, there's
a lot of funny shit that goes on.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Romeo and Juliet is the perfect example. It's a comedy
for half of.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Them, exactly Kusti and then oh my god.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah exact forgot to tell you some everyone dies in
the end. But by the way, I asked this question
of all the people I talked to about their oh bit,
Like you stay up at night thinking of gags to
play on the corner of that place where the actor
comes off, I say, up at night thinking about my
oh bit and what it's going to say. Can you
say what your A bit's going to be?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Oh, oh my gosh. I think I want the old
bit to say that I did lots of different things.
I was able to be in different mediums as an actor.
But I also hope that it talks about, you know,
like being a part of the trail blazed for queer people,
like you know that I was like in that first
(42:49):
class of actors, you know, with Neil and Jesse Tyler,
Ferguson and Jim Parsons like this first like wave that
maybe I should say the last wave of actors that
to come out. You know that that I was part
of that because you know, like now I feel like
people have to come out as straight. It's almost getting
to the point where like.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
To it.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
No, you're right, it's at least in the arts community,
right Like the straight people are having a very hard
time of it right now, you know, the straight kind
of non queer people. Well, anyway, you're divine. What do
you want to promote of this podcast, Darling, Well, come.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
See spam a lot.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I'm there till January twenty first, and then I'll be
in Once on a Mattress until February fourth, Wow. And
then I go shoot season two of Shrinking, which is
on Apple TV. Plus I have a little bitty part
in Maestro on Netlow.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh, it's so good. It's so good. I played Jerome Robbins.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Come on, and Bradley is divine and Carrie Mulligan is divine.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
It is a beautiful making. I can't believe.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
I'm I can't believe you. I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
You can see it on Netflix right now.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, exactly, I love it. Well, you are such a doll.
I mean, you're the best life. I just want to
have your life for ten minutes, I do. I want
your little enclosure. I love your little enclosure. It's charming. Well,
thank you, thank you, Darling and Judith light Free, Barber
stry Sand I'll figure it out. It's okay, all right, okay, Well,
(44:20):
thank you. So gosh, that was so much fun. That
could have gone on for like another three or four hours,
because he's so funny and so adorable, and he's talented
and he's just so perfect in every single way. And
you know, we got to the setback and we talked
(44:42):
about how difficult it was for him and how excited
he is to be on the forefront of like all
of those gay actors, et cetera, et cetera. But to me,
it was such a delight to delve into the details
with this person, and also just the idea that he
might get Judith back into my life. You know, that
(45:03):
is a whole other reason for having done that interview.
So anyway, thank you so much for listening, what a
pleasure it was, and tune in next time. Darlings, if
you enjoyed this episode, do me a favorite and tell someone,
tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell
(45:23):
everyone you know. Okay, and be sure to rate the show.
I love rating stuff. Go on and rate and review
the show on Apple Podcasts so more people can hear
about it. It makes such a gigantic difference and like
it takes a second, so go on and do it.
And if you want more fun content videos and posts
(45:44):
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast. And by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at. I Am Isaac, mssragi.
This is Isaac, mssrah he thank you, I love you
and I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac.
(46:08):
Hello Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and
I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by
Me Isaac Mzrahi. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein.
The senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti vis
Executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, Caarra Welker and
(46:30):
Nathan Kloke at Imagine Audio, production management from Katie Hodges,
sound design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed
by Ben Waltson. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and
Sarah Katanak and I AM Entertainment
The next day they called my agent and they said,
don't make any plans. You're going to Broadway. And I
had never been on Broadway, and Ugly Betty was coming
to an end.
Speaker 2 (00:08):
It was just the most perfect thing.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
I was going to finish Ugly Betty, and then I
had a couple of little gigs in Scotland lined up.
I was going to go spend the summer in Hia
and then come back and go into rehearsal for my
first Broadway show. And then a week before I'm going
to Scotland, I'm told, okay, there's been a snap.
Speaker 3 (00:29):
No. This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea
of success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Mizrahi,
and in this episode I talked to Broadway after TV
star director and host Michael Muri.
Speaker 2 (00:47):
Hello, Isaac, it's Michael Uri.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I cannot wait to talk to you about all things me,
probably a little fashion, maybe some barberstreisand and you know, Bendeth, Judith,
all the ladies we love.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
I am about to talk to Michael Uri, who is
a favorite. I just adore this man's work. I've seen
almost every single play he's ever done, and every single
movie he's ever done, in every TV show, and I
think we met in The Ugly Betty Days. I had
a cameo on one of the episodes, and I'm pretty
sure he was in this scene. And then I think
(01:25):
he was on Project Runway All Stars when I was
a judge on that show, and we met again. And
he's been this kind of like shining star in the distance,
and I've always wanted to like dig in and really
get to know him. And so the challenge today is
how to sort of fit it all into like a
faint little hour. So anyway, without wasting any more time,
(01:48):
let's get straight to it. Well, Michael Yuri, don't you
look chiseled? You look a little thinner to me, what's
going on with you?
Speaker 1 (02:01):
It's the Broadway Dive. Yeah, we're doing you know, eight
shows a week. You know what It's like. It's relentless,
and this is a big song and dance show. I'm
dancing my butt off and singing like crazy. And then
there's like the rest of the life, and I go
to Pete and I get voice lessons and so like
there's just a it's a tough schedule.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
It's a big schedule. When do you eat, Because if
you eat before a show, you're going to be sick
on stage. If you eat after the show, you feel
like Elle the whole night.
Speaker 1 (02:28):
So I used to be a person who after a
show could eat a huge, giant meal. And actually last
night I broke my rule and I did eat a
pretty big meal. But now these days I don't. I've
been intermittent fasting me too, So I take sixteen hours
away from eating, and then I eat whatever I want
for eighty hours, and it's really great. I mean sometimes
(02:52):
I go a little nuts, like about an hour before
the fasting is done, I go a little crazy.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
I don't go crazy. I have to tell you, as
you get get older, like eating whatever you want darling
changes drastically, because if you really eat whatever you want,
you're just gonna gain way.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
You know what I noticed about intermittent fast because I
work out also, and I've been in other Broadway shows
and and I've always been basically slim. But I noticed
with the interimate and fasting that things that I could
never get rid of, like like weird little back fast.
Speaker 3 (03:21):
Back rolls, back rolls.
Speaker 1 (03:24):
Like these weird little things that, like no exercise could
get rid of or I couldn't figure it out. The
intermittent fasting did it, and they like went away. And
also I never get bloated anymore. I never get weird
tummy issues at all anymore.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
It's so great.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
So I generally, except for what I break rolls like
last night, I don't eat after the show, but I
do eat kind of right before the show.
Speaker 2 (03:45):
But I don't eat anything heavy right before the show.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
I'll have like a turkey wrap or a soup or
like a smoothie or something.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Right before the show.
Speaker 3 (03:54):
What sign are you?
Speaker 2 (03:55):
I'm a Leo?
Speaker 3 (03:56):
You're a Leo? Forget? Seriously, I would never never guess
that in a million years. I don't know why I
don't get Leo from you at all? What's your ascendant?
Do you know which one is that? That's like your
rising sign?
Speaker 2 (04:09):
So eight eighty is my birthday?
Speaker 3 (04:12):
Oh I don't know it. I can't do the math.
Speaker 2 (04:14):
And I was born at like one pm. I forget.
I used to know all this.
Speaker 3 (04:19):
Well, if you're an astrologer and you're listening and you
can figure it out from that, just text us please
quickly now, only because do you believe in any of that?
Are you religious.
Speaker 2 (04:28):
No, no, no, okay, none of that.
Speaker 1 (04:30):
I love that religious. I never had religion. My parents
weren't religious. And then when I was a kid, I
grew up in Texas. I'm from the suburbs of Dallas mostly,
and in that area, at least when I was there,
small talk was what church do you go to? Even
as a kid, and I remember one day asking my parents, what.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Do I say?
Speaker 1 (04:48):
You don't go to church? What do I tell people?
And they said, just say you're Unitarian?
Speaker 3 (04:52):
Oh nice, that would shut a lot funny. Wow, wait
a minute, so you're from Texas. That's kind of sexy
that you're from Texas, right, and that you've come so
far from Texas? Like did you see a show in Texas?
Did they bring you to New York to show you things?
I mean, what happened? How did you get here?
Speaker 2 (05:11):
They took me to theater in Dallas. We would go
see shows.
Speaker 1 (05:14):
My dad loved West Side Story of the movie, so
we went to see that when it was on tour
through Dallas and Peter Pan with Kathy Rigbee.
Speaker 2 (05:23):
We saw when I was a kid so cool.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
And then I started to get into theater because when
I was a little kid, I wanted to make movies.
I wanted to be a director. I wanted to be
like Tim Burton or Steven Spielberg, and so that was
my first thing. And I was like, I guess I
should do theater. That's the closest thing to any of this.
They made me go on stage because we didn't have
enough boys to do Fiddler on the roofs. So I
wanted to be like the assistants director, but they said, no,
you have to be on stage. We don't have enough boys.
(05:49):
The tradition song just doesn't work. So once I got
bitten by the bug, once I got like a laugh
on stage, I was like, Okay, now I want to
see every musical. I want to see every play in town.
And my parents were great, it would take me to
see all the shows. There's a lot of community theaters,
there's some regional theaters. There's a lot going on, and
so we would go to Fort Worth to see shows.
(06:09):
We would go to Dallas, is C shows. There were
shows in my town of playing them, and in fact,
I just went back last spring and directed a play.
Since I left, there's a theater company called Uptown Players,
which is this fabulous LGBTQ theater company. They just did
like a big queer Christmas show. They're going to do
the prom that great music.
Speaker 3 (06:27):
I love the prom.
Speaker 1 (06:28):
So I went back to Dallas last spring and I
directed a play with this theater company, and I got
to re immerse myself in the Dallas theater scene and
it was very cool. It was really special. But to
your point about New York and theater. This summer, after
I graduated from high school, I went on a field
studies trip with my local community college. So I just
(06:49):
graduated my high school. I'm seventeen years old. I know
I'm going to go to this community college because I
had bad grades and I decided I wanted to be
an actor instead of a director, and I like sort
of switched gears in my last couple of so I
was like, I'll just stay stay home, save money, go
to the community college. They did a lot of shows,
a big theater program there, and they had this field
(07:09):
study strip, which was a selling point because I'd never.
Speaker 2 (07:12):
Been to New York at this point.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
Oh god, So I go with these.
Speaker 1 (07:16):
People basically strangers, these teachers that I'm going to be joining.
A couple of people I knew that were like also
in my high school and we go to New York
for ten days and we see thirteen shows and we
stay at the Milford Plaza hotel, which is right around
the corner from my spamlat Theater.
Speaker 3 (07:34):
Now, right, that was crazy. And that's what you think
New York. You think forever and ever and ever. Like
when I went to Paris for the first time, I
stayed in the Latin Quarter and I stayed near the
Saint Germain, And that's what I think of as Paris,
like forever and ever and ever. You think that New
York is like Times Square, Milford Plaza and like the
(07:54):
inside of the show Port Authority exactly.
Speaker 1 (07:57):
Absolutely, yeah, And we flew into JFK or whatever, and
then we took a bus to the Port Authority. So
my first step into Manhattan was the Port Authority and
then walking from that pit up to the Milford Plaza
and then our rooms were ready, So we were like waiting,
and our teacher had arranged talkbacks with a lot of
(08:20):
the casts and crews of the shows.
Speaker 2 (08:22):
Very cool it.
Speaker 1 (08:23):
So he wanted to drop off letters. He probably had
a cell phone, but there was no email really, and
so he wanted to drop off letters at all the
stage doors and we're waiting for our rooms news, like,
does anybody want to go with me to drop off
letters at the stage doors? And no one raised their
hand and I was like, I'll go.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
Of course, you'll go. Are you kidding?
Speaker 1 (08:41):
And it was so cool and that's when I was like, wait,
they're all right here. All these theaters are right next
season and we just boom boom bounced. It was so
so cool. And we saw.
Speaker 2 (08:53):
Thirteen shows and toured NYU and Juilliard.
Speaker 3 (08:58):
Witch like, which shows did you see?
Speaker 2 (09:00):
So?
Speaker 1 (09:01):
The first one was Ragtime original cast of rag Time, incredible,
Podra Stokes, Peter Friedman.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Leah Michelle.
Speaker 1 (09:12):
We saw a New Brain off the Broadway at the
Midsy New House, A New Brain with my Malcolm gets
the Bill, Finn Musical, Mary Testa normal Mary Testa.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
You had me we must go on?
Speaker 1 (09:22):
Yeah, oh you would love a New Brain. W It's
a beautiful score from the guy who wrote Falsettos, all right.
And then we saw Fantastics when it was still down
on Sullivan Street and we saw, oh, this amazing production
of Twelfth Night was playing at the Vivian bomm Helen
Hunt and Kiras Sedgwick and Paul Rudd night gorgeous, and
(09:47):
it was the first time I was like, Shakespeare is incredible, incredible.
And then we toured Juilliard and my teacher was like,
this place might be right for you. You should audition for
this place. And I was like, are you kidding me? Juilliard?
Speaker 2 (10:00):
No way.
Speaker 1 (10:01):
And because of that encouragement, whenever the next round came
along the following January, I auditioned for Juilliard and I
got it.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Wow, you see teachers, Darling. Is there any other more
important profession in this world than teacher? Right? No way, No,
it's incredible. It's really amazing that they noticed that in you.
It's so fabulous. We didn't even really know who was
in your class at Juilliard. Were there any other like
actors and actresses that we might know of who were
in the class.
Speaker 1 (10:27):
There was this one woman who you who, poor thing.
It's Jessica Chastang.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Oh.
Speaker 3 (10:33):
I don't know why that to her.
Speaker 1 (10:34):
You may have heard right exactly. She was in my
class over the four years. She was my sister, she
was my mother.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
She was my sister. Why mother, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 1 (10:48):
But she was fabulous, amazing, brilliant, Luke McFarlane was in
my Oh, well he's I do.
Speaker 3 (10:54):
Know him, actually I know him. Yeah, So it was
an awakening this time that you came to New York.
Do you live in New York now?
Speaker 2 (11:01):
Absolutely live in New York.
Speaker 1 (11:03):
This closet is is right, you know, a pre war
building on the Upper West Side and.
Speaker 3 (11:07):
You work in La too. I love your show. I
love Shrinking and it's coming back right, like, I'm so
excited it's coming that correct. Yes, they shoot that show
in La probably right right. And do you have a
place there? Do you stay at an Airbnb?
Speaker 2 (11:20):
I used to have a place back in the Ugly
Betty days.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I got a place, and like minutes after I bought
a place in LA, they moved the whole show to
New York, which I love because I love New York.
But it was also like when I have this house
and so I eventually I rented it. It was an apartment,
and then eventually I sold it. And I didn't have
a place for a long time, so I would either
make them put me in a hotel if I went
(11:43):
out for work, or stay with a friend or an airbnb.
For Shrinking Season one, I rented this little house in
Silver Lake for the duration. And you know, I lived
in the house growing up, but then I've lived in
apartments ever since. But during the pandemic, I became obsessed
with house life. All I wanted to do was live
(12:03):
in a house because we were cooped up in an
apartment for two years. So now anytime I get a
chance to live in a house, I do. And so
when I was doing that thing in Dallas, I lived
in a little house. I don't even need a big house.
There's something about sharing walls, walking through a lobby. I
don't want to do that, right.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know what, though, I have always had a doorman, okay,
Like even when I was renting a shitty apartment on
West End Avenue for four hundred dollars, it had a doormat.
I need to know that someone is taking the bullet
for me in the lobby, okay, because I need to
know that I am one of like several many doors
that the crazy you know, axe murderer can pick someone
else's apartment and not mine, you know what I mean.
(12:40):
I have difficulty in houses, you know. I have a
little shack ish kind of place in Bridgehampton. There are
so many houses on my street, Like, who would really
pick my silly little shack to go and sort of
home invade when you could have like the fabulous, giant,
sort of Moorish estate down the block. Why would you
pick my little shack? You know you're not going to
get much out of it, right, So I guess maybe
(13:03):
because you were raised in a house or something. Maybe
that's what it was like that you missed about it
or something. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (13:08):
Maybe.
Speaker 1 (13:08):
And when I left my house and I moved to
New York, I said, I never needed to live in
a house again. I'll only ever live in apartments in
New York. And it was I think the pandemic was
a big thing. It's like, we lived on the seventh
floor of a building at the time, and.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
We just felt trapped. I felt trapped.
Speaker 1 (13:23):
And we have a dog, so we had to walk
the dog every day, three four times a day. And
so when we were when we were really scared.
Speaker 3 (13:29):
I remember the power, really, I do remember. And I
have to tell you my husband and I were in
my shack with my two dogs in Bridchempton and it
was amazing, and he felt trapped there. He needed to
come to New York City. And when it was really scary.
He actually wore two masks and he took an uber
to New York City and I was like, you are crazy,
and I think we're breaking up. I thought we were
(13:49):
breaking up. I really did. And then it was really great.
It was like he's there and I'm here, and it
was kind of nice to be like separate, you know,
not driving each other crazy. Sure, but back to you
and back to like you're awakening as both an actor
and as a gay entity in New York City, because
I'm imagining growing up in Dallas. Was it easy in
(14:12):
the eighties or the nineties. It's never easy, But I think,
tell me, well.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
I was born in eighty so by the time I
started to like have the thoughts and start to think
that kind of life would be possible, it was the
mid late nineties. But I have an older sister who
is queer, and she's seven years older than I am,
and so she sort of went through all that ahead
of me in Texas. In our house, she sort of
(14:39):
like laid the groundwork, so like it was complicated, and
I knew that in Texas I could only be a
certain amount queer. But I was also in theater and
in speech, and debate. I would do these competitions where
we would go and compete. So not only was I
like learning about plays in theater classes, but I was
(15:01):
working on plays and speech and debate because we would
put together these excerpts from plays and go compete with them,
and I would see so much. So like in high school,
I knew Angels in America. I knew Love Valor Compassion,
I knew as Is, I knew Torch Song, I knew
all of these plays, and so that world was already
(15:21):
exposed to me.
Speaker 3 (15:22):
The world of gay theater, for instance, is what you're trying.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
So the world of gay theater and the world of
like New York, I understood that.
Speaker 2 (15:30):
I knew that was a possibility.
Speaker 1 (15:31):
And I also had this sister that was like super
cool and like her world was like sports and then
like mental health, and also in a way queer women's
sports is also in its way queer, but certainly not
like theater is queer.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Certainly not like theater is.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
Like putting it front and center and publishing it and
putting it on film, you know, Like I mean, I
remember seeing the movie of Love Valor Compassion when I
was in high school and being like, I'm like, god,
this is so exciting. So like, by that time when
I got to New York, which was like ninety nine,
I was pretty ready, but I was shy, and there
were people around me that were not shy that sort
(16:09):
of helped me like out of my shell. But I
was lucky my sister came out before I did, and
my parents were really cool. Like when my sister came out,
it was like what it was in the early nineties.
My parents were like, we have no idea that we
love you, but what And so by the time I
came out, they'd sort of smoothed all that out and
they were great and have been.
Speaker 3 (16:29):
Oh, it's just so amazing, so amazing to hear like that,
your two generations after me, and you're talking about like
they barely knew what it was. And when I came out,
it was looked upon as a sickness, an illness. So
describe like, was it a culture shock for you coming
to New York and actually having a bar that you
could I mean, I'm sure there are gay bars in Dallas,
(16:51):
but did you go to them?
Speaker 2 (16:53):
No?
Speaker 1 (16:53):
No, no, I never went to any bars in Dallas
of any kind. I mean because I wasn't allowed to
drink yet, you know, I came to I never.
Speaker 3 (17:00):
Stopped anyone before, but go on, yeah.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Well in New York, I don't know if you still can.
Speaker 1 (17:06):
But when I moved to New York, you could get
into bars, like there were lots of bars you could
go to underage and they didn't care. In Dallas, that
wasn't really a thing. And also we were driving, and
I wasn't really into drinking or drugs in high school.
In the year at community college, I remember going to
like house parties and drinking, but I didn't smoke pot
until I moved to New York or anything like that.
(17:26):
But when I stepped foot in New York for the
first time, when I left the Port Authority that day
and I was on Eighth Avenue in the summertime in
nineteen ninety eight, and it was stinky and hot and
gross and scary, I was like, this is home.
Speaker 3 (17:42):
Of course, you sign me up. Where do I sign?
Speaker 2 (17:45):
I was exactly.
Speaker 1 (17:46):
And then like a year later, when my parents brought
me to New York to move me into Juilliard, we
drove from Dallas to New York, parked family in Jersey's house,
and we took the bus into the Port Authority and
we came out and we stayed I think at the
Howard Johnson's a few blocks before. I walked us there.
(18:06):
I was like, I know the way, let's go. And
my dad had never been to New York before. My
mom hadn't been since she was a kid. And I
remember my dad turning to my mom and saying, we're
gonna leave our son.
Speaker 2 (18:16):
Ah, like he couldn't believe it.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
But I was like, no, this is where we go.
I know this is north, this is South. I know
how to get there. And then Juliard is just another
few blocks this way, and I did, and I led
us everywhere and I was home and when they dropped
me off when it was time to go, I was like, okay.
Speaker 4 (18:30):
Okay, go bye bye bye bye, love you bye.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
You got famous pretty young. I mean, how old were
you when you did Ugly Betty?
Speaker 1 (18:46):
I think I was twenty five when we shot the
pipe Oh okay.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
And when it came on TV, I was twenty six.
Speaker 3 (18:51):
And then like every day in the world knew who
you were, right, yeah? And so did you do a
lot of hooking up and dating? What was that like?
Being so kind of fame and gay, famous gay, and
Dishy also kind of adorable.
Speaker 1 (19:05):
It's so interesting because I didn't come out publicly at first.
I think it was between season two and three, or
maybe like the beginning of season three, because back then
Ellen was out and you were out, you know, like
a few people were out. But it was during that
time that NPH was outed, right, So it wasn't like
a thing yet.
Speaker 3 (19:23):
Except you were playing a big gay on this show.
Speaker 1 (19:26):
So I was playing a big game, so everyone assumed,
and I wasn't in personally, but like people that I
knew knew it, but I wasn't like talking about in
the press. So like when people win, the press would
want to talk about it, I wasn't. So I was
a little bit careful, but not really. And early on,
maybe even before the show was on TV, a good
friend of mine had a birthday party and at the party,
I noticed one of his friends who I thought was really,
(19:47):
really cute, and I said, what's the deal with this guy?
And he was like, oh, you guys would be so
great to get I'm setting you up. And he set
us up and we talked on the phone and we
were supposed to have a date and then because a
friend of mine, I canceled the date, and then I
never really rescheduled. And that was because the show came
on and suddenly I was like, I was famous, I
(20:11):
was in magazines. I was getting recognized at the grocery store,
and I was like, oh, I don't want a boyfriend,
I want lots of right, and that guy seemed like
boyfriend material, and so I the first couple of years
of the show, I had a lot of fun and
I dated a bunch of different people.
Speaker 2 (20:27):
And then they moved the whole show to New York.
Speaker 1 (20:30):
And around that time, a different mutual friend had just
moved to New York and said, my other friend just
moved to New York, and you know him. You were
supposed to go on a date with him years ago,
And I was like, you know what, I would love
to make that happen again. Anyway, that's Ryan and we've
been together fifteen years.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
You're kidding, this is amazing.
Speaker 1 (20:49):
Yeah, wow, this idea that like when I was first
on TV and first famous and like young and cute
and everybody knew who I was. That's the reason that
Ryan and I didn't see each other in the first place.
And if we had it wouldn't have worked, would have
come back right?
Speaker 3 (21:03):
Well, you know, I have to tell you something. I mean,
I wasn't on a TV show, but I was a
very known personage, and I had my face on magazine
covers and stuff, and people knew who I was, and
that before Grinder Darling, there was a phone line where
you would beep to the next caller. It was very dangerous,
but you know, I like a little danger. And you
would meet occasionally and people would go and you are
(21:26):
and I'd say Paul and one of them said, oh,
really your Paul. Paul What And I said Paul Smith.
And then I realized, like, oh shit, no, I'm not Paul's.
I mean Paul you know Paul Dumpling, so that you
know Paul Smith. I mean, of all things, it was
so funny right now, but you know, these things happened.
What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Did you have a coming out moment? Did you have
like a public coming out?
Speaker 3 (21:49):
You know, when I launched my company about six months later,
there was a cover story about me on New York magazine,
and you know, they asked and I said yes. Because
an advance of being famous, I had this great psychic,
and she said, you know, you should think about what
you're going to say because soon you're going to be
in the public eye. So I thought, well, you know,
I worked for all these queens and none of them
(22:09):
were out, and it's also boring. Why don't they just
come out? Come on? You know, we all know, everybody knows.
How do you lie? Right? So I decided I wasn't
gonna lie, so I said it in the article and
then people were calling Darling, I'm so sorry you were
outed in New York magazine and I thought, no, no, no, no, no,
I'm not outed. I meant to come out. So it's
like yeah, wow, yes, fascinating.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
You know, when Ugly Betty came on and I was
suddenly famous, people were like, don't come out, and they
were like, you can play this one gay part, but
don't take.
Speaker 2 (22:36):
Any other gay part.
Speaker 1 (22:37):
Wow, And I got another gay part. It was the
Temperamentals that play, which I think you can to see.
It was about the managing Society, and I played Rudy
Gernreich and I.
Speaker 2 (22:47):
Was playing another gay.
Speaker 3 (22:49):
Oh huh.
Speaker 1 (22:50):
I was playing this other gay in fashion that was
completely different than Ugly Betty, different genre, different medium, different
different kind of characters, different period, different style. So I
was like, well, here I am playing another gay part
and it's nothing like this.
Speaker 2 (23:06):
They're wrong.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
I don't have to be pigeonholed as gay. That was
the thing that everyone thought, you're gonna get pigeonholed as gay.
And I'm like, there's lots of gay, there's lots of
ways to be gay. I don't have to say no
to these other parts. And by the way, if I did,
I wouldn't work. Like they're getting other parts. They're not
coming my way. Sometimes I get straight parts, I get
a lot of asexual parts, and I get a ton
(23:28):
of queer parts, and great.
Speaker 3 (23:30):
Great, I'm finding I mean, I'm even quoted as saying
that you think gays should play gays, especially when it's
about sex or their sexual identity of something. Do you
think we should be able to play straight people too?
Speaker 1 (23:43):
That was probably something I said at a time when
there were too many straight people playing gay people exactly,
and it was more like, we need to course correct, right,
and then once we've course corrected, we can like reevaluate.
But there's too many gay actors that leave the business
because they're not getting their own roles and they're losing
out to straight people. And I feel like there's a
pendulum situation going on because I think that a straight
(24:06):
person could play a gay person and vice versa. We
just kept giving them oscar and giving them tight right
and giving them empty playing, and that's what it was like,
all Right, we got to really think about this and
reevaluate this. And there was a point where I was like,
if you're playing a gay character and their problem has
to do with their queerness, you should you should be authentic, right,
(24:30):
it should be an authentic situation. And that's not to
say that like you couldn't act it. I realized, like
we're actors right now. I am playing medieval Night of
the Round Table. Obviously that's not authentic, but that doesn't
mean that I can't do it. It's also Monty Python sketches.
We're all playing lots of characters. But there was definitely
(24:51):
a point, and I think we're sort of moving past
it because there's so much representation now. I mean, we've
got Fellow Travelers that is huge, and all these people.
We had that Great Boys in the Band on Broadway
with all those queer people, so like it's happening. It's
starting to work. Plus like these young people like Heartstopper
and like it's.
Speaker 3 (25:10):
It's oh wow, beautiful, it's so good. I loved it, Oh, Starling,
so thinking of appearing on stage, you seem built for this,
like you really like it, and there's no part of
you that goes like, what the fuck have I done?
I have so much stage fright, I have so much dread.
You don't go through that.
Speaker 2 (25:26):
No, I don't.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
I get stage fright from time to time if it's
something really challenging and I don't feel ready, or if
it's like a big moment. I have a big song
and spam a lot, and some nights I get get
like nervous. And there are things that I do, like
I have this long patter song and spam a lot,
and I go through the lyrics before every show, like
(25:50):
right before I do the song backstage, I go through
the entire lyric, and it's become a superstition. I don't
think I need you anymore, but I do that. And
I've never been superstitious in that way.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Oh, but theater will make anybody superstitious.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
Starling, Yeah, totally. And I think part of it is
the repetition. Like this show we've been doing it for
since Halloween was our first performance. And there's this moment
where Leslie Chritser, who is brilliant, and she kills she's.
Speaker 3 (26:14):
Such a good show. And second part such a funny part,
and she leaves.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Stage right and she goes all the way around and
there's a part where she rounds a corner and Taran Killham,
Chris Fitzgerald and I are just waiting. We're just hanging
around there waiting, and one night she came around and
we were like, oh, like we startled her. And now
every night, oh, she comes around that corner. We do
a bit. Every single performance we do is something different.
I once lost sleep thinking about bits.
Speaker 3 (26:41):
We could do.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
I was like, I was like, oh, what if we
did we were all like being frist by the police.
What if we were all like laying dead on the ground.
So now we have to do it. It's become a superstisior.
Speaker 2 (26:52):
We have to do so.
Speaker 3 (26:53):
Like I don't have a problem memorizing things. I really don't.
That's how I fall asleep. I memorize Shakespeare friends. So
I just like that, right. But the thing is the
minute it becomes seems study, and the minute I'm doing
it with a partner, I'm like, was that again, any
old damn thing that I'm supposed to have memorized? And
(27:14):
I worked really hard on memorizing it. And then Darling,
there's the brain fart.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
You know.
Speaker 3 (27:19):
I had a big number in Chicago last year in
the show Chicago exel Aphane, and for some reason, my
music would happen Da Da Da Da da, and I
would like I grew up with that show. I went
to see like the original original cast before that, and
so I knew this number. And the conductor came backstage
it was like, Darling, do we need to I'm like no,
(27:40):
And Charlotte Dunbois, who's a genius, She's like, Darling, drilling.
I'm like, it's not about drilling. It's not about drilling.
It's not it's just this moment that happens. And by
the way, the audience never knows. I don't know how
they miss it. Why do they miss it?
Speaker 2 (27:55):
Well, because they take this show in face value. They
just assume it's perfect.
Speaker 3 (27:59):
Right us. It's just obviously unless you fall and hurt
yourself and start bleeding with something right right.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
They will buy anything.
Speaker 1 (28:09):
I can't tell you how many times I've had a
huge mistake and somebody comes back after the show and
I'm like, god, did you see that mistake? And they're like,
I thought that was part of right. It's amazing that
it was intentional.
Speaker 3 (28:18):
So do you like better performing on stage or being
in a studio with you know, Vanessa for it? Well,
you wouldn't want to be in a studio Vanessa for
the rest of eternity. Vanessa Williams, Oh, my god.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
The most yeah, oh, most perfect job I think ever,
you know, like it's bittersweet. I think to have a
job so good like that early in the career because
everything else will have to like be compared to it.
On the one hand, but on the other hand, I
know that some people will never have that have the
perfect a plus job like that, where it's your big break,
(28:50):
you get paid well, the material is incredible, you get.
Speaker 2 (28:53):
Famous, people are lovely, they're lovely, people are amazing.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
And it ended after four years, so I'm not tied
to it forever, Like, yeah, it always comes out, but
it's not my Seinfeld or my friends.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
You know, it was a great moment, but we're not
stuck there. We weren't.
Speaker 3 (29:09):
Wow by the way, you weren't even thirty when it finished.
Fuck you okay exactly.
Speaker 1 (29:14):
I was twenty nine when we had But the best
thing that came out of that show for me was
working with Vanessa, Judith Light, and Tommy Plana, who were
the elders on that show, and then America, who was
like the second youngest on the show. These four people,
I mean, and everybody else too, of course, but like
(29:36):
learning from them, learning from someone younger than me, America,
how to be a leader, watching this young person be
not only brilliant in the show, like flawless in the show,
but lead a cast, lead a crew. And then to
watch Vanessa and learn how to be famous.
Speaker 3 (29:54):
I mean, and learn how to be so gorgeous and
smell good. And also Judah Judith, is there anybody more
like Divide? I shot a pilot with Judith a long
time ago called Born in Brooklyn and didn't get picked up.
And she would say, Darling, when you moved to LA
I have some dogs. We'll get out dogs together. And
I was like, what is she talking about? You know?
(30:16):
Of course right like Judith Flight was ready to be
like my best friend, and that never happened. By the way,
next time you speak to Judith Teller, I'm still waiting
to be her best friend. You're still waiting.
Speaker 2 (30:26):
But she's like, I learned how.
Speaker 1 (30:27):
To treat people from Judith Light because she she is
so professional. And there's this this is sort of the
joke in Like La, Like, if you're in West Hollywood
and you run into any gay person, they're close personal friends.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
And exactly, Darling, if you are on Eighth Avenue in
New York City and you run into any gay in
any bar, they are close personal friends with Judith Light.
Speaker 2 (30:51):
And they are like, that's the thing. They actually I'm
not yet.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
So fuck you. Get her on the phone, tell her
to be my damn best friend. Judith, if you're listening,
call me up. Okay, seriously, I have a habit and
the Hamptons that has your name on it. All right, seriously.
You know you talk about a lot about your successes.
(31:18):
Is there a failure that kind of shaped you in
some way?
Speaker 2 (31:21):
Yeah, I had a great one.
Speaker 1 (31:22):
When you look at it with hindsight, it wasn't a failure,
but at the time it was awful. It was the
hardest thing I've ever gone through, probably in my life.
But on the flip side, this lesson was as important
as Ugly Betty. I have this tendency to ask for parts,
or beg for parts, or weasel my way into jobs.
(31:43):
It happens all the time. It happened with Spam a lot.
It happened with Ugly Betty. I found out Ugly Betty
was happening. I put two and two together. The cast
and director had just seen me in something, and I
think this might be right for me. This role looks interesting.
Get me in. And my agents were like, we're not sure.
We're not sure, and I was like, just get me in.
I need a job. I think I could get this.
And I got it. And it's happened a lot of
(32:03):
times for me. And so Ugly Biddy had just come
on and I was hosting something. It was a point foundation,
if I remember correctly, and they were honoring Hairspray. The
movie of Hairspray was coming out, and Craig Zaden and
Neil Marrin, the producers of Hairspray, were there and I
met them and they were really fine and we had
a really fun night together. They had produced a bunch
of things for TV musicals for TV, and I was like,
(32:25):
you know what you guys should do, how to succeed
in business without really trying, and I should be in it.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
Oh my god.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
And so cut to a couple of years later it's
announced that they're doing it with Daniel Radcliffe and I'm like, okay,
this is my chance.
Speaker 3 (32:39):
I love this production, yes so much.
Speaker 1 (32:42):
It was a great production. He was a great idea
for it. They were great producers for it. And I
was like, okay, this is happening. I need to be
in this show. I want to play the villain. Bud
Trump is one of the great comic roles. I saw
Roger Bart in Dallas on tour when he came through
with Ralph Maccio, and so I told my agents, was like,
(33:02):
I want this.
Speaker 2 (33:03):
I want to get in on this. So they had
me go in and sing.
Speaker 1 (33:07):
Craig and Neil were like, we remember, we know you
want to do this, and I went and sang. They said, great,
you'll do the workshop and we'll see what happens. And
there was a workshop which was basically like a tryout
for the Estate. It was really for the Lesser Estate,
Frank Lesser.
Speaker 2 (33:23):
Who wrote the music and lyrics.
Speaker 1 (33:24):
It was the first Lesser to see if this was right,
This was the right director. Dan Radcliffe was right, and
so we did it.
Speaker 2 (33:33):
It went great. She loved him. He was great.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
And then like the next day they called my agent
and they said, don't make any plans. You're going to Broadway.
And I had never been on Broadway and Ugly Betty
was coming to an end. It was just the most
perfect thing. I was going to finish Ugly Betty. And
then I had a couple of little gigs in Scotland
lined up. I was going to go spend the summer
(33:56):
in Europe and then come back and go into rehearsal
for my first Broadway show. And then the week before
I'm going to Scotland, I'm told, okay, there's been a snap.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
No.
Speaker 1 (34:08):
Yes, the Lesser Estate loves you, and yes the director
and the producers love you. But there's another estate, the
Burrows Estate. A Burrows who wrote the book and directed
the original production.
Speaker 2 (34:21):
You know Lester's partner.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
They made a few shows. They did, they they did
how to succeed, they did most happy Fella. The Burroughs
Estate needs to see you. And I was like, what
I have to basically audition for the first time, and
they audition is the day I'm leaving for Scotland. So
that morning I go in and I audition, and then
I go to the airport and I'm waiting in line
(34:45):
at security when I get the call that I have
lost the part.
Speaker 3 (34:49):
Oh no, oh no, I have lost it.
Speaker 2 (34:54):
And the producers are like, we're going to fight this.
We're going to fight this. This isn't over yet it
was over.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
And so I spend the first month in Scotland bereft,
just so upset, thinking what am I going to do.
I'm miserable. I'm here in Scotland doing these weird, weird jobs.
I should be back. I should be a pilot season.
I shouldn't be here, you know, I should be like
I'm trying to get back on teaving my big job.
I follow up is gone? Who am I with?
Speaker 3 (35:19):
Nine? Who's gonna want me in a year? Fuck you? Okay?
Go on, go on, go on.
Speaker 1 (35:25):
And so I spend the summer in Scotland. It ends
up being wonderful. I'm there all summer and it takes
a while to get over it. The movie I shoot
is really great, and then I do a show at
the Fringe festival in Edinburgh, which is really fun.
Speaker 3 (35:38):
It's playing. I love Edinburgh so much. It's a great festival.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
It's so perfect.
Speaker 1 (35:43):
I turned thirty in Edinburgh and I get home and
I'm like, wait a minute, I don't have anything. Oh
this sucks now what now? What am I supposed to
do with my life? And it takes a while for
me to sort of pick up the pieces and figure out,
like what am I with?
Speaker 2 (36:00):
Out this job? And I get some things. I do
some cool things.
Speaker 1 (36:03):
I end up getting to replace in the off Broadway
production of Angels in America, which was really special. I
get a pilot or two. You know, some things happen,
and then my agent calls me. She's like, are you
sitting down? I was like, what, you know? How to
Succeed has been running for a year, right, Yeah, Well
they're going to do some cast changes and they want you.
(36:26):
And I was like, okay, but what about the Burrows estate.
They're like, Burrow's Estate's not involved anymore. It doesn't matter.
And I get to do it.
Speaker 3 (36:35):
But Radcliffe was still in it when you were in it,
wasn't he.
Speaker 1 (36:38):
No, no, he left Nick Jonas and I, oh it
was so Nick Jonas replaced.
Speaker 3 (36:44):
Okay, I love that you practically created the idea for
the show, and then right, and then you didn't get
the job fired from Jesus Christ, and then you got
re hired. You know what, Let's put this out there,
a revival of Victor Victoria starring me. Oh that is,
you know, as the old Robert Preston part.
Speaker 2 (37:05):
Right, come on, can't you.
Speaker 3 (37:07):
See me doing that night after night?
Speaker 1 (37:09):
Oh that's my part? Who would be your Victor Victoria?
Speaker 3 (37:13):
I don't know, somebody not as good as me? So
I would shine really brightly every night. That is that sad?
Wait a minute, but now I have a real, really
important question. This is why I am conducting this interview.
Did Barbara streisand mention buyers and sellers? And my name
is Barbara? Because I didn't get there yet. I'm midway
(37:36):
through the book.
Speaker 1 (37:37):
Yeah, I haven't read the book or listened to the book,
but I feel like I would have heard by now
right right right?
Speaker 2 (37:43):
I always hear, you always hear.
Speaker 3 (37:45):
The gays do not let you forget it.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I am forever entwined with that woman, and I haven't
I don't think.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
So oh shit shit, man, but she does.
Speaker 2 (37:55):
I mean, I assume she talks about the mall.
Speaker 3 (37:57):
I mean, she talks about the mall to everyone who
will listen. Are you kidding?
Speaker 2 (38:01):
Yes?
Speaker 3 (38:01):
She shows she's done it with Gale, she did it
with every single fucking Steven Colbert. Anyone who wants to
go to that mall can go. But you, Darling, did
you ever go? Did you ever go to the mall? No?
I never met Come on, you never met Barbara? Okay, well,
if you get me Judith Light, I'll get you Barbara Streisand.
Speaker 2 (38:21):
Are you not? Really?
Speaker 3 (38:22):
We were for a minute and then I guess she
met Donna Karen and the rest is history. You know,
it's like, really, Donna I got replaced by Donna Karen, Darling, listen,
stick together, all right, Well, you're in spam a lot, right,
But then they just announced that you're going to be
in Princess and the Peas, I mean, Once upon a Manchester.
Speaker 2 (38:41):
So I'm having a medieval music from one.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Medieval musical to one medieval right, But tell me when
does that rehearsal start? Like, is it overlapping? Are you
gonna be like Julie Andrews in the back of the
woody going from Connecticut to like one play to the
next play across town.
Speaker 1 (38:57):
I will have the root from City Center to the
Saint to see their down path, right.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
You know it's one of these encorese shows. Have you no, No?
Speaker 3 (39:04):
I love it. Tell them I want to do these shows.
Speaker 1 (39:07):
You should do one. I mean it's divine. This will
be my fourth time doing not Encores, but the Broadway
Center stage in DC where we started spam a lot.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
They do the same thing. You rehearse for two weeks
and then you do it for two weeks. On course, you.
Speaker 1 (39:18):
Rehearse for two weeks a whole musical wow, and then
you do it for two weeks.
Speaker 3 (39:24):
And then if you're not off book, they kind of
come for you like they did. It was Dear World,
I think it was Donna Murphy and they were like, hey, Donna, Oh,
why are you on book? And the excuse me, I
had two weeks to do this huge and you got
COVID and can't you just get over it? You know,
but we've Donna alone, Leave Donna alone. We should pick
it in front of City Center. We really should.
Speaker 2 (39:46):
It's very funny.
Speaker 1 (39:46):
When I did the first time I did an Encore show,
there was a point in rehearsal where we were rehearsing
something and the director was like, well, this will be
much easier when you're not carrying the script.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
And I was like, oh, really, oh, I won't be
carrying this. Good. Do you have a problem memorizing things? No?
Speaker 1 (40:03):
Not really really none. If it's good writing, If it's
good writing, it's really easy, because it's the best way
to say. I actually think Shakespeare is the easiest too,
to remember, only because there's no other way to say.
Speaker 3 (40:14):
It exactly exactly. He juxtaposed his words next to each other.
That you will never never forget, you know, like who
would fartles bear? Who would fartles bear? Really?
Speaker 2 (40:25):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:25):
Okay, well, that you will never wear? Exactly? When are
you going to do Hamlet? Darling? I did it? When
did I missed this?
Speaker 1 (40:32):
When I did it in Washington, DC at the Shakespeare
Theater down there, and Michael Kahn was my teacher at
Juilliard And it was really cool, you know, like a
part that I always wanted to play, of course, and
it was this big, expensive production and it was fabulous.
Speaker 2 (40:49):
I loved it. I loved it. I got to do
it twice.
Speaker 1 (40:51):
We did it and then we remounted it.
Speaker 3 (40:54):
Yeah, that's a big commitment. How long do you get
to rehearse that that?
Speaker 2 (40:58):
We rehearsed for like six weeks?
Speaker 3 (41:00):
Yeah, I guess, which is great.
Speaker 1 (41:01):
You know, like a week just at the table with
just a few people, and then another couple of weeks
with everybody at the table, and then you start putting
it up.
Speaker 3 (41:10):
And then you start wearing medieval clothes again and you're
all set right with it.
Speaker 1 (41:13):
Actually a modern dress production, oh, which is really cool.
So we had like cell phones and guns and stuff.
Speaker 2 (41:18):
It was cool.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
It was really accessible and also my Hamlet was kind
of funny, and the audience really liked that. Not all
the critics liked it, but you know, like Shakespeare is
intimidating to audiences and when you can help them. The
thing I think about Shakespeare is if you're understanding what
we're saying, it will be funny because you're like, oh
my god, I get it. And so when the audience
is laughing, it's not necessarily because we're being silly or
(41:42):
funny we're telling jokes. It's because they're following it and
they're enjoying.
Speaker 3 (41:45):
Yes, yes, and like Tolstoy of something or proofs or whatever.
It's really funny no matter what. Like Shakespeare had a
very good sense of humor, which is why the tragedy
is so deeply felt, because for the most part, there's
a lot of funny shit that goes on.
Speaker 1 (42:00):
Romeo and Juliet is the perfect example. It's a comedy
for half of.
Speaker 2 (42:03):
Them, exactly Kusti and then oh my god.
Speaker 3 (42:05):
Yeah exact forgot to tell you some everyone dies in
the end. But by the way, I asked this question
of all the people I talked to about their oh bit,
Like you stay up at night thinking of gags to
play on the corner of that place where the actor
comes off, I say, up at night thinking about my
oh bit and what it's going to say. Can you
say what your A bit's going to be?
Speaker 1 (42:25):
Oh, oh my gosh. I think I want the old
bit to say that I did lots of different things.
I was able to be in different mediums as an actor.
But I also hope that it talks about, you know,
like being a part of the trail blazed for queer people,
like you know that I was like in that first
(42:49):
class of actors, you know, with Neil and Jesse Tyler,
Ferguson and Jim Parsons like this first like wave that
maybe I should say the last wave of actors that
to come out. You know that that I was part
of that because you know, like now I feel like
people have to come out as straight. It's almost getting
to the point where like.
Speaker 2 (43:10):
To it.
Speaker 3 (43:10):
No, you're right, it's at least in the arts community,
right Like the straight people are having a very hard
time of it right now, you know, the straight kind
of non queer people. Well, anyway, you're divine. What do
you want to promote of this podcast, Darling, Well, come.
Speaker 2 (43:25):
See spam a lot.
Speaker 1 (43:26):
I'm there till January twenty first, and then I'll be
in Once on a Mattress until February fourth, Wow. And
then I go shoot season two of Shrinking, which is
on Apple TV. Plus I have a little bitty part
in Maestro on Netlow.
Speaker 3 (43:40):
I can't wait.
Speaker 2 (43:40):
Oh, it's so good. It's so good. I played Jerome Robbins.
Speaker 1 (43:44):
Come on, and Bradley is divine and Carrie Mulligan is divine.
Speaker 2 (43:50):
It is a beautiful making. I can't believe.
Speaker 3 (43:53):
I'm I can't believe you. I can't wait to see it.
Speaker 2 (43:56):
You can see it on Netflix right now.
Speaker 3 (43:57):
Yeah, exactly, I love it. Well, you are such a doll.
I mean, you're the best life. I just want to
have your life for ten minutes, I do. I want
your little enclosure. I love your little enclosure. It's charming. Well,
thank you, thank you, Darling and Judith light Free, Barber
stry Sand I'll figure it out. It's okay, all right, okay, Well,
(44:20):
thank you. So gosh, that was so much fun. That
could have gone on for like another three or four hours,
because he's so funny and so adorable, and he's talented
and he's just so perfect in every single way. And
you know, we got to the setback and we talked
(44:42):
about how difficult it was for him and how excited
he is to be on the forefront of like all
of those gay actors, et cetera, et cetera. But to me,
it was such a delight to delve into the details
with this person, and also just the idea that he
might get Judith back into my life. You know, that
(45:03):
is a whole other reason for having done that interview.
So anyway, thank you so much for listening, what a
pleasure it was, and tune in next time. Darlings, if
you enjoyed this episode, do me a favorite and tell someone,
tell a friend, tell your mother, tell your cousin, tell
(45:23):
everyone you know. Okay, and be sure to rate the show.
I love rating stuff. Go on and rate and review
the show on Apple Podcasts so more people can hear
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And if you want more fun content videos and posts
(45:44):
of all kinds, follow the show on Instagram and TikTok
at Hello Isaac podcast. And by the way, check me
out on Instagram and TikTok at. I Am Isaac, mssragi.
This is Isaac, mssrah he thank you, I love you
and I never thought I'd say this, but goodbye Isaac.
(46:08):
Hello Isaac is produced by Imagine Audio Awfully Nice and
I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia. The series is hosted by
Me Isaac Mzrahi. Hello Isaac is produced by Robin Gelfenbein.
The senior producers are Jesse Burton and John Assanti vis
Executive produced by Ron Howard, Brian Grazer, Caarra Welker and
(46:30):
Nathan Kloke at Imagine Audio, production management from Katie Hodges,
sound design and mixing by Cedric Wilson. Original music composed
by Ben Waltson. A special thanks to Neil Phelps and
Sarah Katanak and I AM Entertainment
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