August 7, 2023 • 46 mins
Isaac Mizrahi talks to Sandra Bernhard about the G-string incident, the time she was thrown off a boat, a setback in their relationship revealed for the first time and more.
Follow Hello Isaac on @helloisaacpodcast on Instagram and TikTok, Isaac @imisaacmizrahi on Instagram and TikTok and Sandra Bernhard on Instagram @sandragbernhard.
(Recorded on July 12, 2023)
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
We literally made a circle around you on the street
and took your pants off, took the g string off,
which you flung into traffic. Okay, and you continued on
the evening with your coach completely visible through the chaffon bants.
It was a wonderful, wonderful memory that I have of you. Okay,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And when you have you know when your coach is
younger and.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm fresh, Yes, when you have a fresh young coot.
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Mizrahi, and
in this episode, I am so excited. I talked to
literally one of the dearest friends I've ever had, and
(00:44):
I think one of the great comedy geniuses of the world,
the great Sandra Bernhard.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello, Isaac, It's Sandy Bernhart. I can't wait to talk
to you. You are my darling and we'll talk soon.
Love you, baby, darlings.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
This is a real landmark for the Hello Isaac podcast
because I'm about to speak to one of my best
friends on the planet Earth, who I have a long
history with, Sandra Bernhard. We are dear, dear, loving, loving friends,
and one thing I don't want this to become is
(01:24):
a kind of like a reverie. I don't want to
just walk down memory lane. I also want to talk
to her. Since this podcast is supposed to be a
lot about success and failure, I want to talk to
her about our friendship, which I'm not necessarily categorizing it
as a failure, but I definitely think that our relationship
(01:45):
hit a roadblock. When you think that we dined out
and that we saw each other and went on vacations
together and traveled around, and then suddenly there was something
that happened, and I'm not exactly sure what, but you know,
our relationship kind of underwent a great kind of stanceill
it was almost like a roadblock that we hit, you know,
(02:07):
as dear dear friends. And though I know we still
love each other, I just want to discuss that and
see exactly what she thinks happened. So I'm a little
excited and I'm a little scared both those things, and
I'm eager to get started. So let's go. Hi, Hi, Sandra.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Hi. I'm starting to tell you I had to leave
the city because they're replacing our elevator, which was a
lot coming our buildings. So we're going up and down
five flights of stairs, you know, four or five times.
Oh god, So we're taking these extended breaks. It's gonna
say three to do this project.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Oh lord, darling, especially in the hottest time of the year.
It's so gross.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's like, and you know what, I've learned one thing, Isaac,
all the years I've known you.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
What's that to not bitch and complain about stupid shit?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Except that bitching and complaining makes it a little better,
doesn't it just a little tiny bit better? It helps me,
you know what? It helps me.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm solution based.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well, here's my solution to everything. Therapy. No, we spend money,
but also therapy, Darling. If you talk to someone every
week and they have to listen to you, they're paid
to listen to you and not say that much. That
solves a lot of my problems. I feel so much
better after I talk about it, I really do.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I know you always prescribe to that. I'm just the opposite.
I do a lot of internal like examination. I think
things through, I flare up, I deal with my stress.
I release it to me. Talking to somebody is the
most unrelenting boring thing in the entire world, especially somebody
(04:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I don't know what they really think, and of.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Course you don't know them until you do. You know,
you get to know a therapist, darling, because.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I've never done therapy.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I've been in therapy, but it was for specific ship
about my parents. I'm not telling you not to do
it for me. It's just another thing I don't want
to deal with.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I don't think it's right to do it for specific things.
I just think is an ongoing facet in your life.
It's great to have like a third party that has
absolutely nothing invested in it listening to you. It's just
a great thing for me, and it's not boring. And
I am extremely internalized and all I do is think and.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm not I'm not saying I'm not.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
This is I don't want to fight with you. What
you said you sh talk about.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Actually, I think you should thought about it thet.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Wait a minute, do you know that, Arnold and I
One of the great things that we have between us
is when we're kind of edging into a fight, one
of us goes, I don't want to fight with you,
and then it's so ridiculously funny when someone says that
that it just devolves into lafta darling lefta left to left. Hey, listen, Sandra,
(05:15):
I want to talk about us, okay, because we've known
each other for a minute, honey. We know each other
since the twentieth century. That's a very long time. And
I have incredible memories of you, and I want to
spend too much time like kind of talking about that,
but it is good to kind of give a historical
(05:36):
base to the children in the context a context exactly
what is your favorite memory of us? Do you have one?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I have so many favorite memories, but one of the
memories that I cherish is when I would come visit
you at your attilie right, and you would have four
or five cigarettes burning it once and you're at in
different and just walk around smoking and putting them back
down like burn and we would dance to the black Box.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's right, everybody, everybody that's on my list two a
favorite memories.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I have to say, yeah, I mean, it's just it
was the casual, intimate nature of our friendship that meant
so much to me that I could stop by when
you were in the middle of working, designing and finishing
your different seasons, and you were never like like, oh god,
I can't talk to you, and I somehow it would
make you.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I guess it made you feel better that I stopped by.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I don't know it means, of course break. Oh I
got a break from the hideous monotony of all that too.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
And then also I loved coming and shopping and getting
clothes and like wearing almost exclusively your clothes in every
context in my life, whether it was going on David
Letterman or whether I was opening or you know, promoting
my shows, or wearing your stuff on stage. I mean yeah,
from your payette, you know, sequined short tank dresses which
(07:05):
became a staple in my closet, which were so beautiful,
and I was so steady then.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I didn't even need to wear anything.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Maybe I wore a G string, but I didn't to
wear a bra, and you know I wore like one
of your slang back or were those little shoes.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Like like kitten heel.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I want to say, like Pilgrim pill.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Grow Grim mules, the mules Mules, the mules, Pilgrim rules dollar.
Wait a minute, speaking of g strings, I have a
memory of you. I don't know if you remember this,
But we went to dinner somewhere in Chelsea, and then
we were headed to like a gala and it was
me and you and like Ryl and that insanely nice
(07:46):
makeup artist that you had, that young man I forgot
his name. He's probably not that young Stephen, and we
were all walking in the street and you were having
like a G string crisis. This was early in the
G string technology. You may not remember this, but you
were wearing kind of like chon Cozy bella wait a minute,
Cozy Bellow that was.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
The manufacturer of those.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
They were like floss. They were like floss in your crack.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Right, floss in your crack. But wait a minute, now
here's the thing. You were wearing a chiffon suit like
I had made this like chiffon suit with like a
tailored jacket and chiffon pants and the thong to cover
up whatever you need to cover up. But you were like,
you know what, I can't with this, Cozy Bellow, I
can't with this butt floss. And we literally made a
circle around you on the street and took your pants off,
(08:35):
took the G string off, which you flung into traffic. Okay,
and you continued on the evening, with your coach completely
visible through the chiffon pants. It was a wonderful, wonderful
memory that I have of you. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And when you have you know, when your coach is
younger and crash.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yes, when you have a fresh young coach. Actually, you
know what I got to tell you, Those days, Darling
at the Royalton. Not to sound like some you know,
decrepit old queen, but they were some days at the Royalton, right, Darling,
Some days yoah beyond description with like Madonna and Elizabeth
(09:16):
Saltzman ordering food from mister Chow. You and I, Darling,
we went out to dinner at least and to some
club or some party or some whatever galla or something.
Literally every night. Do you remember this? For something like
two or three years, Like we were literally out every
damn night together, not just in New York, in Chicago,
(09:39):
in Paris, in places like we were around in Landre
to say it in French. And when did we stop?
Do you remember when we stopped going out every single night?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Well, I mean it was probably around the time I
got pregnant, I guess, because I was doing.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
My show I performed while I was pregnant at the West.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Beth, and I continued to go out almost every single night, right, So,
and then I went back to La gave birth to Sicily,
my daughter.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Maybe that's what it was. Maybe it was about Sicily.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Fabulous pictures of you and me dancing Opening night on Broadway.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I'm still here, damn it, which was amazing, amazing. So
I continued to go out even once I had Sicily.
But then when I met Sarah my right, my lady
of now twenty four years.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
My lady, my lady late, we go.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Out, but I guess things just shifted, you know, as
they do when you have a kid and you're maybe
in a little more like grounded relationship than I'd ever
been in.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Right, things just shift, and it's like attrition. Things just happen.
And to be perfectly honest with you, I tell myself, like,
you know, did I say something? Did she say something?
Did I forget something? Am I missing something? Did we
fail as friends? Because this podcast is a lot about failure.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And we did have a we did have a glitch
in our friendship.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We did write what was it about? Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Because you screamed at me because I said something about.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
A model and your show. I'm not going to mention
your name, because she's a wonderful person. I really liked her,
and I wasn't trashing.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
I just said she looked a little horsey in one
of her looks and went fucking ballistic. I walk out
the door to go do a shoot for the cover
of my album Excuses for Bad Behavior, and you brought
me to tears and I was totaling, yeah, bereft and
freaked out.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
You tore me to shred.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You're kidding? When was that?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
When was it ninety.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Four?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Okay, I don't remember that at all.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Well, I mean maybe because you just like blew your
stack at me, and you, yeah, a person like a
lot of people who blow their stack and don't think
that that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
By the way, I love the expression blow your stack.
That is so my father, I.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Guess from our generation.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know my father and growing up was like, yes, yeah,
I'm gonna blow my stack. But anyway, I don't consider
this failure. I consider it.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Friendship.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
That was sort of eye opening for me and really
hurt me, and I was really really stunned, and it
also brought me into that realm of when men scream
at women, and I am so fucking over it. I've
spent a lifetime being screamed at by my father, by
different men who have been like my managers or you know,
(12:49):
people in my business, and it's like, I'm so fucking
over it. It's like being pummeled abused. It's misogynistic. I'm
not saying you're being misogynistic, but there's something about men
I don't care, gay, straight or in between, where men
think they can scream at women, and you know what,
I will never let it happen again.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Wait, okay, so can women scream at men?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Is that okay with you?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
No, nobody should scream at anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I find it a little bit weirdly sexualizing to say
that men scream at women. That is a little general But.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
When they do, it's because they are entitled.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
They have a sense of entitlement, because they're men, and
they so believe, most men that they are in the control.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But I don't. I would never ever think that, and
I would never ever generalize that, you know, And the
fact that I don't remember it like really hurts that
I don't remember when it was this sort of traumatic
thing in your life that kind of set you back
to such an extension.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Because you were really really really like like your head.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Was like, do you think that's where it started to
kind of diminish.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I've fought differently about you. I try fadacious. I was
more like, you know, uncertain about things. I felt I
could just say without you know, some sort of a big, huge.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Reaction.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
But that's an outstanding moment that to this day has
always sort of stuck with me, and I always felt like,
why didn't I just tell Isaac in the moment that
I did?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But I should have given it a couple of days
and called you back and said, what the fuck was that?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right? Or I should have reached out and said, gosh,
that was a moment. I don't do that. I'm so sorry.
And what was it about? Just to parse it through, right,
to move through it, to move through it. Well, Listen,
before I say another word, Darling, I would like to
apologize to you that I hurt you in that way.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I mean it. Can I please do that before I
say the next thing?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, Well there you go. Okay, let's go a little
bit into the history of you, because what I really
want to know, and I might know the answer to this,
but I want you to put it into your words,
like why did you go into show business? And why
(15:13):
did you go into comedy? Is there a reason you think?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, I honestly believe I was born to do it
because when I was five years old, my dad was
a doctor.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
His partner, Melt Rosenbaum's wife, Marlene Rosenbaum, never crushed and
she was boiling water. I don't know what she was
going to do with the water, but she goes, what
do you want to be when you grow up?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I was four or five years old. I said a
comedian and she laughed and I said, no, I will be.
I will be, and she laughed again.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I was already like performing and entertaining right family, my
three older brothers. I was already in that mindset. It
wasn't like one day I decided I was.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Going to do it. It was in my consciousness from day one.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And speaking of the family dynamic and the brothers who
were all amazing who I love, and they're also hot.
I don't know if they're still hot. They're probably like
much older now because I haven't seen them in twenty years,
but they were always really really hot. But do you
think that being this girl among these boys, do you
think that kind of added to your ability to kind of,
(16:23):
I don't know, be funny or something, because I always
think that people get to be funny by practicing, Like
you start being funny at a young age, and you
practice and practice and practice. In some context, do you
think it was that.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I think that I had a built an audience, right,
And I love that My oldest brother Dan played guitar
and he sang folk songs, so I would sit and
sing with him.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
My brother David was he was the most excited about
having a baby sister. He was enthralled by me, my
brother Mark, youngest and age Mark furious because he had
been the youngest and the.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Baby, right, that really was going to.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Be it until the happy surprise of Sandy came along
with her and he was like ready to fucking.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know, kill me. Right.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And then my dad, of course, because he had had
three boys and he was not he didn't like men,
and men were a threat to him because he's such
a narcissist. He was thrilled because he had finally had
a baby girl. My mother, according to Jamia Jeanette, told
one of my brothers I think my brother David that
(17:37):
she had homicidal thoughts about killing me and my dad.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
When I was born. Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
You think that was like early postpartum depression of something.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And I don't blame her. She had three little boys.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
He was a sensitive soul. Jeanette was a sensitive.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Was an introvert. She was a true artist.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I think had she been born in the next generation,
she would never have gotten married.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I think she would have just.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Gone off and done for her and you know, lived
her a monastic lifestyle. She cared about sex. I don't
think she liked being somebody's wife. I don't think she
really loved being a mother. She was pushed into it
by my grandmother, who nabbed my father when he was
in Jackson, Michigan, where my mom was from, when he
was doing his medical internship and he was something on
(18:22):
the scene, like a young single Jewish doctor, so nabbed him.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
For my mom.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
In those days, you could not escape, You had to marry,
you had to have children. It was a must do thing,
especially for a Jewish woman. But Darling, going back to
this idea of you as a performer, first of all,
I think you're so great at so many things. I
think you're an incredible writer. I think you're an incredible singer.
I think you're a great actor. I think you're a
(18:51):
great comedian. But what do you think of yourself as.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I think myself is an entertainer because I feel I
feet you know, all of those things are incorporated in
what I do. The writing, the singing, the acting, the performing.
And yes I do, I go off and you know,
in different spokes to the wheel, like when I actually
do a role as an actor, but when I'm on stage,
(19:17):
I feel like I bring all those elements together because
I write my shows and I'm very musical, and I
feel like I help arrange a lot of the songs
with Mitch Chaplin, my musical director.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I control all the levers.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But wait a second, now, getting back to who you are.
You're talking about yourself as an entertainer, and I also
think of you as a commentator, right, Like you comment
a lot about the scene. But the thing is, Sandra,
like you know today, when you see people who comment
on stuff, you know, it's kind of like an affectation
(19:53):
or it's like in air quotes. You know, it comes
up in their work, it's vetted and in your case,
it's something that is so like ingrained in the person
you are, in the writer, in the musician, in the performer,
in the entertainer, you know what I mean. Talk about that.
Talk about politics for a minute, and not so much
(20:13):
the specifics of being a Democrat and being a liberal
or whatever, but talk about how you think why did
that become such an important thing to you as a performer.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Because I grew up in a time that was very,
very explosive, you know, the Vietnam era, the feminist era,
the of course racial issues at a time when being
Jewish was you know, it's still not easy for it.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
It feels it feels like it's getting worse to be
these things it's getting But.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I was, you know, little when John Kennedy was president,
so I was like right away, I was already very
taken by the Kennedy mistique.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I love John Kennedy. I loved all the stories. I
adore Jackie, the children.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I just have the stibility, the sophistication, you know, the
sort of high wasp beauty of the whole experience. Was
the first time had really had, you know, talking about
quotes royalty.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Also the youth of it. We always had such old,
ugly presidents, and he was rather gorgeous and young and glamorous,
and so is she.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, and America felt really like we were like gearing
up for something great. And then, of course, you know,
I was in third grade when the news came that
he had been assassinated, and we all went home and
spent the weekend just being like traumatized. I mean, to watch,
you know, Lee Harvey Oswald being shot live on TV.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
In grainy black and white.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
You know, it's like we forget that nobody had ever
experienced anything like that before.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Really, you know, I think he was when he shot
in like nineteen sixty three or something, or sixty four,
three sixty three. I wasn't yet cognizant. I was already born,
but I was literally a baby baby, like in the cradle.
But I do remember it was the first time I
ever saw my mother cry, like she was destroyed. And
(22:17):
I remember, even at two, however old I was, or three,
I do remember that one moment of feeling fear because
my mother was crying. Yeah, it was a devastating thing.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Well, I was eight years old, and I was very aware,
and I see it all very clearly. I mean, I
remember being in my third grade class and my teacher
and all my friends.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
We had to run home. As I told her, I
had to run home to.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Escape things you know as saturations, tornadoes.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
A flock of birds tell you, and snow storms. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It was just like when I was little. It was like,
for some reason, I was always walking home alone. I
had no sooner. Let's Sisley walked down the.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Sixth god darling.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
But in our generation, you know, maybe my mother want
me to the corner and then waved goodbye.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I was like, well, I hope I see you.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Oh, I know exactly. So it was honestly neglectful. I
think they were neglectful. But going back to you and
having politics kind of poured into you, into your DNA
and what it comes out like on stage and in
your performances. And I've noticed sometimes it gets you into
some trouble sometimes, you know, or it used to get
you into some trouble sometimes I don't know about anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Wells certain there's certain things that I don't do anymore.
I mean, I had Carte Blanche to talk about the
black experience because of my friendship with Paul Mooney, who.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Was right my mentor right right.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
You know, he went everywhere with me when I started out,
and he got me on the Richard Pryor Show, and
he introduced me to black audiences. And so back then
I was able to say things as in the parlance
that I would say to Mooney. But then all of
a sudden, you couldn't do that anymore, and I was
like a ship, Oh my god, Mooney's not here. The
(24:04):
world has changed. So I'm not allowed to be a
filter of the black experience any in the way I was.
I mean, I know, somebody black performers and audience members
love me because they have a thing about it.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
But it's gotten so.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Twisted between true racism and people who are you know,
super super allies.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Allies.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Okay, that's cool. It's not my story to tell.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
It's my story to defend and celebrate, but it's not
my story.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So that makes it very different now.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And so I think once in a while I've said
something and people jump on it, but it's usually not
somebody black.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It's somebody who's like trying to stir the shit.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You know. One of my favorite things in the world
about you is your kind of like sticky situation with
the LGBTQ community, Like sometimes they love you so much
(25:16):
and you just open them up, and then other times
my favorite thing in the world. I was actually, you
know this person, Elope, They're a comedian, they're queer, and
they're wonderful. And I was at this party and they
were talking about how difficult it is to navigate the
queer community, and sometimes they're really for them and other
(25:37):
times they really challenge them, and blah blah. I said, Darling,
you have not lived until you were Sandra Bernhardt on
a gay cruise right in nineteen whatever that was, like
eighty nine or ninety two or something.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Like that book the best booked.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
As the entertainment on that boat and actually being thrown
off the boat for something you said, like how incredibly
punk rock and amazing is that? Sandra? Come on, there
was a DG you came to the boat to get
you off the boat.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Let me explain to you something that's so fascinating. I
think it's changed. But at that point, so many of
the gay men were from like these smaller towns, and
they saw, even though they were gay, they saw had
a provincial sensibility about you.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yes, yeah, what they liked in entertainment and food and clothing.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
The fact that they were gay didn't elevate their sophistication
in any way.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Shape or form.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, So when I started saying, we were on a ship.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Of fools, right right, I hate that's what it was.
Those those ships are so grotesque.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
All a ship, darling. You lost me at ship.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Unless you're on like you know, Barry Diller in Dian
von Furstenberg's.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yacht or the love Boat or the love Boat. You
went on a passover cruise when I was about like
twelve years old or thirteen years old. It was darling
on the Queen Elizabeth two so that my mother wouldn't
have to be darling, so that my mother wouldn't have
to kosher the house. And I was seasick the entire
entire time. Okay, did you go to London, No, honey,
(27:14):
we went to like Saint Lucia and you know the Bahamas.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And the Qi too.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, I'm telling you. It was a passover cruise and
I was say sick the whole time, so I didn't
do anything. This is before everything. There was a movie
theater that had three movies. Okay, I sat through those
fucking three movies. Like about twenty five times each.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
This is insane.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It's insane. Wait a minute, so, but I do want
to talk to you about you as a spokesperson for
the LGBTQ community and where you are in that whole
thing today. Is it an important facet of who you
are and who you are in the public eye.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's only important to me that people are completely supported
and loved and can be exactly who they are are
in that realm. I don't need that support. I've never
needed to define myself like that. I've never had any
issues about my sexuality. It's never been how I've defined myself.
(28:15):
But I am absolutely fiercely at people's you know, beck
and call to.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Get the love and support they need.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
How do you define yourself? You are bisexual, right, Sandra?
That's how I know you.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I say bisexual only because I fantasize about having sex
with men. Sometimes not as much anymore because I've been
a Sarah for so long we're together, and that's but
you know what I mean. It's like I find certain
men super.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Sexy, and you know, I like men.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I don't even think about it really, Like I'm not
aggressively gay, you.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Know, Yes, I do know, are you aggressively sexual anymore?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah? I think in certain ways.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Kay, hooray, good for you with Sarah. Do you have
an open relationship.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Now, we do not have a relationship that is nothing
but sour us.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I agree for us, for me and you, but for others.
It's a way of life. I mean, I don't condemn it.
I don't condone it.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
What that means is you have security with the person
you're with, but then you're allowed to run around Saxon
be Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yes, people can do it. They can do it. I
mean when me and Arnold talk about being monogamous, we
go like, you know, you know, yes, we are right,
And then I go, yeah, that's maybe one day I
would just and then I try, or I look around,
or someone approaches and I'm like, now my husband's like
way sexy or it's too fabulous. I'm not going to
rock the boat. I'm not going to rock the LGBTQ
(29:42):
cruise or the dinghy that took you off the cranes.
But anyway, I'm glad to know that like you still,
because I too, I feel like a sexy entity. Still.
I still feel sexy, Yeah, especially.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
When I'm like performing and I'm going out and get
my hair makeup.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Done, and yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I tried into different you know, modes.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Speaking of modes, you are a mother one of the
most adorable, fascinating young women, Sicily, right, And you're also
the daughter of a fascinating I think, fassing who I
really liked. You know, I really liked your mother. She
was great, She was just great. I think you loved
my mother too. You loved Sarah a lot. Yeah, you
(30:28):
love Sarah. But anyway, talk to me about that. Were
there lessons that Jeanette taught you as a daughter that
you then applied to Sicily.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I felt I'm bookended by two women. We're a little
bit of stubborn. When my mother was hugely stubborn, Cecily
is stubborn. But I think it's a good thing because
she's of this generation now that if you don't have
a little stubbornness, if you don't have a way to
like process what the world is doing, you'll fall apart.
(31:01):
I feel like I'm both, and it's like I'm more
of the giver, more of the lover, of the tender person,
you know, is a lot more like my mom. She's
an artist, she's more of an introvert, and so it
skipped a generation because that's kind of what my mom was.
She was a visual artist, a painter, a sculptor, and
(31:22):
cicly is you know, she's in the art adjacent.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
World, right, Darling. Can we just call it generational, because
I swear I feel the same way that you do.
I don't have a kid, but I do have a mother.
My mother was a kind of a narcissist. She was
a narcissist who kept it in check and it was
always about her. And sometimes I think to myself, like
that was the only reason I was there, was to
kind of amuse her, you know. And I felt that
(31:49):
way about that generation. I don't think I'm a boomer.
I was born in nineteen sixty one, and when I
was born, I wasn't considered a boomer. Somehow they shifted
the dates and now I'm considered. But I don't have
that whole boomer thing about me, right, But there was
my mom's generation, and then they are the kids in
the world who also feel like they can express themselves
(32:10):
really easily and ask for what they want and get
what they want like sicily, right, Like she can ask
for what she wants, and she will a lot of
times get what she wants, Whereas, like we that kind
of in between generation, we felt a little weird asking
for what we wanted.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, absolutely, well, Awsome.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
My mom wasn't always emotionally available when I was little, right,
She had a lot of you know, stuff happening going
on mentally, and I shored her up and I had
to like just really dig deep into my own tiny
little bank of resources, right and become like a super
(32:53):
strong person, which is why I kind of like can
deal with almost anything now. But I'm at the point
where I don't want to. It's innovating, it's just too much.
I want to be with people in situations where it's
just easier.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Than it's a long way mm hmmm, I understand that.
But it's part of like aging a little bit, right,
You age and you go, you know what, maybe I
don't need all the drama. I don't need all this
ridiculous sourus and you just go like, yeah, I just
like being with easy people.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well, let's talk a little bit about you. When you
were starting your career, right, did you have a plan?
Did you have a plan for the whole thing? Like
I'm going to move to LA, I'm going to audition,
I'm going to go out there, I'm going to do
stand up and then I'm going to do this, and
then I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Now I didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
And the only thing I knew that I was going
to do when I moved to l I was go
go to beauty school and become a manicurist.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Come on, well, I know that's true, but that has
to be a huge surprise for a lot of people
listening to this podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Because I had to have a job to support myself
if I'm not going to support.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Me, right, But you know what, Listen, when I was
growing up, I also had to get the hell out
of my house because you know, it was a very
religious thing. It wasn't good. And I knew that if
I was a designer and I could work in a
design room or something, it'd be a lot easier than
what I really wanted to do, which was be a performer,
you know, And I was too scared of that. So
(34:17):
I went and I got a job. You know, I
went to Parsons. But it was part of my plan
to do that, to get into the design world, get
into that do it, you know, sort of make a
place myself and then branch out into show business. And
you're saying you just thought I just want to be
a beautician.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Oh no, I knew that was the only concrete plan
I had it in terms of, like, once I landed
in La, what I was going to do? I see,
before I started becoming a performer, I didn't know. But
the jumping off place or the.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Na I see, Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I met up with a bunch of friends, you know,
some people my age.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I met this woman named Judy Vallen.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Her parents were like in you know, cabaret for last performers.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
She left her family back in Ohio, her kids and
husband came back to LA and she was performing, singing
you know, songs her mother wrote at this open mic
night at the Little Club. And I had a party
one night and I got up and did my little,
rudimentary five minutes of material. I didn't know what it was.
I was just entertaining my friends to the party. She goes,
(35:21):
you got to come and do open mic night. So
she took me there. She'd already pulled Paul Mooney about me.
When I got up that first night, he was there
and my friend Lotus Weinstock, my two you know angels,
and they took me under their wings, and that's where
I jumped in.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I didn't know that it would be in the stand
up comedy world.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
I always thought I was going to go to New
York and do Broadway musicals because I loved I love
Carol Channing and I love Barbers streisand and that's kind
of the last thing I want to do now. I mean,
just the monotony of doing the same show over and
over again doesn't interest me and ended up not interesting me.
So yeah, so that's how it off him together. It
(36:02):
was very organic. I didn't have a formal plan. That's
when I knew it was really meant to be, because it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Just happened in such a natural way and it just
like took off from there.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Is there a moment where you feel you had a
set back in all of that, like where you just failed,
Like did you miss something, did you not get a
job that you really wanted to get, did you not
get apart?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I wasn't auditioning for anything at first, my first four years.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I was just performing.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And then I was on the Richard Pryor Show and
I did Dollar ninety eight Beauty Contest, and I did
Fernwood Tonight.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I did all the other little TV.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Circuit where people would just get plugged in and you
would do your little act in like this setting right
of people talking to you. And then I did a
Cheech and shawng movie. And I did this movie called
The House of God. It was based on some book
about a hospital in Boston.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
So I did I did all these.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Little things and there were perfect little things to do
that kind of got me, you know, the tea set
for the big swing into King of Comedy, m.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
The breakthrough that was the big breakthrough.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Had I not gotten that, maybe that would have been
a setback.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
But because I did get that, the entire landscape of
my life and my career.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Right, what was that audition? Like did you audition?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Audition?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
But I my agent at the time didn't get me
up for it. My friend Lucy Webb there was Comedy
Partners with Cheryl Henry who you know, Yes, she had
gone for it and she was totally wrong and she
called Sis Corman, the casting director.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I got it on my behalf. Wow, that is a
beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I went in and I read for her because they
wanted somebody who could improvise, so I did have a
little improvisation and thing for her, and she was like,
I think you need to meet Marty. So the next
day I met Marty and Marty and Hobby and then
they came to see me at the Comedy Store and
Richard Belser got up and did like a little improv
(38:02):
with me, as if we were like amazing the characters
in King of Comedy. And then a month went by
and then they flew me to New York and I
did my last audition with Jerry Lewis, and then two
days later they called me in my hotel room at
the Mayflower on Central Park West. It's not there anymore,
and Sis Carmon said, you've got the job.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Wow, that is an amazing say, oh, Sandra, I can't
even bear it. I had. The rest is history. So
you're looking back now, are there any regrets? I hate
(38:46):
the word regret, but it's a good word because it's descriptive.
Do you regret something?
Speaker 3 (38:51):
But really, I mean, there were a few things that
I was offered that I could have done that I
didn't do, but none of them to me are like
stand out, you know, performances by anybody else. I was like,
damn it, why the fuck didn't they do that? You know,
I feel like I could have had better representation at
different points in my career. Right when I was with
(39:13):
Sue Mangers, that was amazing, and the gang over it
well more so than they all left, And then sometimes
I was sort of in the lurch, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Right there was a quote that I pulled from somewhere
from some of the research that said that you thought
maybe if you were better at playing the game, you
might have made more money or something. You don't think
about that.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's true, you know what I mean. It's
just been a little bit too myself. But I don't
think that's a bad thing. I think it's a good
thing for me.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Looking back is difficult, but of course, like having you
as a main guest on this podcast, I can't help
looking back, and I can't help asking you to look
back because you know, we've known each other for such
a long time. But now talking about us together and
knowing each other for such a long time and aging,
(40:01):
is there a plan? Now? Do you have any plans?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, I have a lot of plans. I'm definitely gonna
keep performing live.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Okay, it's a really important thing. Like we're at this age.
I am sixty one. How old are you, darling. I
know you don't care if we ask you that you're
sixty eight. Okay. So we're approaching seventy, which is a
big number, right, And I feel like planning is a big, big,
big thing at this age.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I've just got fabulous new manager, this woman Marnie, who
I love, wonderful and she is she's not young, and
she's probably fifty and she just loves me and gets
me and wants to make things happen. Of course, we're
in the middle of a writer's strike, and I know
in the emminent you know, actors strike as tonight at midnight,
(40:48):
and we should strike because we've got to get what
we need now or we will lose everything.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
This I will statement dark, I will.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Be political again. Must be unionized in this country. Unions
were invented to protect workers from injury, from being milian attacked.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
By the way, people don't think of actors or writers
as these creatures that need unionization, but they especially do,
they especially do. Yeah, well, Darling, the last question that
I ask all of my people that I interview is
what would your obituary? What would the headline be?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
That's why you can't do it. You're not well, you
know our obituaries have already been written.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
That's that's that's.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
No, she's not doing it. Okay, Darling, that's a good answer,
Thank God forbid. That's as good an answer as like,
you know, she was amazing and she made everybody happy
and and and and square me for a few years, right, exactly,
all right, Well tell us what you want to plug.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Okay. My show is called Spring Affair.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
I am at the Park Theater on August nineteenth in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
I'll be at.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Oscars and Palm Springs October twelve, I think that's right.
It's on my website, and then I'll be back at
the Wallace Annenberg in Beverly Hills October nineteenth.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Those are shows that are set in stone. I want
them sold out. I want people to get that.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
My shows on the West Coast are called Lady of
the Canyon. It's a tribute to la and all the
years that I would drive over Laurel Canyon to go
back to the valley and be so inspired by the music.
I was listening to and the energy of all the
great people who lived in Laurel Canyon and wrote and
performed sounds incredible. You can go to my website, Sanderburnhard
(42:50):
dot com, and of course, if you're on Instagram or
any of those kinds of platforms, you can do linked
in bio.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Okay, love you, I love you. I love you forever, forever,
Darling forever mean, I.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Mean, that's insane. Of course we love each other, Yes,
we do very much. You mean so much to me, me.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Too, my dear choking up all right, I'm not kidding. Wow,
what an incredible conversation, What a beautiful resolution, What a
burden has been lifted from my chest. I'm so glad
(43:37):
that I got a chance to hear all that from Sandra.
I'm really really grateful that I got the chance to
truly apologize for that moment. And in an ironic way,
even though Sandra was talking about how she thinks therapy
is questionable and she's a little bored with the thought, darlings,
(43:57):
I think that that was a couples therapy session in
the making right there, And I feel really grateful that
you were with me. You all listen to that somehow
it made it even realer to me. Thank you, And
you know, on top of everything, I'm really really looking
(44:18):
forward to spending more time with Sandra, to having a
more casual kind of friendship as we used to. That's
exciting to me. Darlings. If you enjoyed this episode, do
me a favor and tell someone, Tell a friend, tell
your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know. Okay,
(44:39):
and be sure to rape the show. I love rating stuff.
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kines, follow
(45:01):
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
And by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at. I Am Isaac, Mssrahi. This is Isaac, Missrahi.
Thank you, I love you and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
(45:25):
Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
The series is hosted by me Isaac Msrahi, Hello Isaac.
Is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
Burton and John Assanti. It is executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Caarra Welker, and Nathan Kloke at Imagine, Audio
(45:47):
production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Waltzer. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah katmak at i AM
Entertainment
We literally made a circle around you on the street
and took your pants off, took the g string off,
which you flung into traffic. Okay, and you continued on
the evening with your coach completely visible through the chaffon bants.
It was a wonderful, wonderful memory that I have of you. Okay,
thank you.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
And when you have you know when your coach is
younger and.
Speaker 1 (00:22):
I'm fresh, Yes, when you have a fresh young coot.
This is Hello Isaac, my podcast about the idea of
success and how failure affects it. I'm Isaac Mizrahi, and
in this episode, I am so excited. I talked to
literally one of the dearest friends I've ever had, and
(00:44):
I think one of the great comedy geniuses of the world,
the great Sandra Bernhard.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
Hello, Isaac, It's Sandy Bernhart. I can't wait to talk
to you. You are my darling and we'll talk soon.
Love you, baby, darlings.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
This is a real landmark for the Hello Isaac podcast
because I'm about to speak to one of my best
friends on the planet Earth, who I have a long
history with, Sandra Bernhard. We are dear, dear, loving, loving friends,
and one thing I don't want this to become is
(01:24):
a kind of like a reverie. I don't want to
just walk down memory lane. I also want to talk
to her. Since this podcast is supposed to be a
lot about success and failure, I want to talk to
her about our friendship, which I'm not necessarily categorizing it
as a failure, but I definitely think that our relationship
(01:45):
hit a roadblock. When you think that we dined out
and that we saw each other and went on vacations
together and traveled around, and then suddenly there was something
that happened, and I'm not exactly sure what, but you know,
our relationship kind of underwent a great kind of stanceill
it was almost like a roadblock that we hit, you know,
(02:07):
as dear dear friends. And though I know we still
love each other, I just want to discuss that and
see exactly what she thinks happened. So I'm a little
excited and I'm a little scared both those things, and
I'm eager to get started. So let's go. Hi, Hi, Sandra.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
Hi. I'm starting to tell you I had to leave
the city because they're replacing our elevator, which was a
lot coming our buildings. So we're going up and down
five flights of stairs, you know, four or five times.
Oh god, So we're taking these extended breaks. It's gonna
say three to do this project.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Oh lord, darling, especially in the hottest time of the year.
It's so gross.
Speaker 3 (02:57):
It's like, and you know what, I've learned one thing, Isaac,
all the years I've known you.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
What's that to not bitch and complain about stupid shit?
Speaker 1 (03:06):
Except that bitching and complaining makes it a little better,
doesn't it just a little tiny bit better? It helps me,
you know what? It helps me.
Speaker 2 (03:14):
I'm solution based.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
Well, here's my solution to everything. Therapy. No, we spend money,
but also therapy, Darling. If you talk to someone every
week and they have to listen to you, they're paid
to listen to you and not say that much. That
solves a lot of my problems. I feel so much
better after I talk about it, I really do.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
I'm glad.
Speaker 3 (03:37):
I know you always prescribe to that. I'm just the opposite.
I do a lot of internal like examination. I think
things through, I flare up, I deal with my stress.
I release it to me. Talking to somebody is the
most unrelenting boring thing in the entire world, especially somebody
(04:00):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (04:01):
I don't know what they really think, and of.
Speaker 1 (04:03):
Course you don't know them until you do. You know,
you get to know a therapist, darling, because.
Speaker 2 (04:09):
I've never done therapy.
Speaker 3 (04:11):
I've been in therapy, but it was for specific ship
about my parents. I'm not telling you not to do
it for me. It's just another thing I don't want
to deal with.
Speaker 1 (04:22):
I don't think it's right to do it for specific things.
I just think is an ongoing facet in your life.
It's great to have like a third party that has
absolutely nothing invested in it listening to you. It's just
a great thing for me, and it's not boring. And
I am extremely internalized and all I do is think and.
Speaker 2 (04:41):
I'm not I'm not saying I'm not.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
This is I don't want to fight with you. What
you said you sh talk about.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Actually, I think you should thought about it thet.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Wait a minute, do you know that, Arnold and I
One of the great things that we have between us
is when we're kind of edging into a fight, one
of us goes, I don't want to fight with you,
and then it's so ridiculously funny when someone says that
that it just devolves into lafta darling lefta left to left. Hey, listen, Sandra,
(05:15):
I want to talk about us, okay, because we've known
each other for a minute, honey. We know each other
since the twentieth century. That's a very long time. And
I have incredible memories of you, and I want to
spend too much time like kind of talking about that,
but it is good to kind of give a historical
(05:36):
base to the children in the context a context exactly
what is your favorite memory of us? Do you have one?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
I have so many favorite memories, but one of the
memories that I cherish is when I would come visit
you at your attilie right, and you would have four
or five cigarettes burning it once and you're at in
different and just walk around smoking and putting them back
down like burn and we would dance to the black Box.
Speaker 1 (06:05):
That's right, everybody, everybody that's on my list two a
favorite memories.
Speaker 3 (06:11):
I have to say, yeah, I mean, it's just it
was the casual, intimate nature of our friendship that meant
so much to me that I could stop by when
you were in the middle of working, designing and finishing
your different seasons, and you were never like like, oh god,
I can't talk to you, and I somehow it would
make you.
Speaker 2 (06:31):
I guess it made you feel better that I stopped by.
Speaker 1 (06:33):
I don't know it means, of course break. Oh I
got a break from the hideous monotony of all that too.
Speaker 3 (06:40):
And then also I loved coming and shopping and getting
clothes and like wearing almost exclusively your clothes in every
context in my life, whether it was going on David
Letterman or whether I was opening or you know, promoting
my shows, or wearing your stuff on stage. I mean yeah,
from your payette, you know, sequined short tank dresses which
(07:05):
became a staple in my closet, which were so beautiful,
and I was so steady then.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
I didn't even need to wear anything.
Speaker 3 (07:12):
Maybe I wore a G string, but I didn't to
wear a bra, and you know I wore like one
of your slang back or were those little shoes.
Speaker 1 (07:20):
Like like kitten heel.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I want to say, like Pilgrim pill.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Grow Grim mules, the mules Mules, the mules, Pilgrim rules dollar.
Wait a minute, speaking of g strings, I have a
memory of you. I don't know if you remember this,
But we went to dinner somewhere in Chelsea, and then
we were headed to like a gala and it was
me and you and like Ryl and that insanely nice
(07:46):
makeup artist that you had, that young man I forgot
his name. He's probably not that young Stephen, and we
were all walking in the street and you were having
like a G string crisis. This was early in the
G string technology. You may not remember this, but you
were wearing kind of like chon Cozy bella wait a minute,
Cozy Bellow that was.
Speaker 2 (08:07):
The manufacturer of those.
Speaker 3 (08:10):
They were like floss. They were like floss in your crack.
Speaker 1 (08:13):
Right, floss in your crack. But wait a minute, now
here's the thing. You were wearing a chiffon suit like
I had made this like chiffon suit with like a
tailored jacket and chiffon pants and the thong to cover
up whatever you need to cover up. But you were like,
you know what, I can't with this, Cozy Bellow, I
can't with this butt floss. And we literally made a
circle around you on the street and took your pants off,
(08:35):
took the G string off, which you flung into traffic. Okay,
and you continued on the evening, with your coach completely
visible through the chiffon pants. It was a wonderful, wonderful
memory that I have of you. Okay, thank you.
Speaker 3 (08:48):
And when you have you know, when your coach is
younger and crash.
Speaker 1 (08:53):
Yes, when you have a fresh young coach. Actually, you
know what I got to tell you, Those days, Darling
at the Royalton. Not to sound like some you know,
decrepit old queen, but they were some days at the Royalton, right, Darling,
Some days yoah beyond description with like Madonna and Elizabeth
(09:16):
Saltzman ordering food from mister Chow. You and I, Darling,
we went out to dinner at least and to some
club or some party or some whatever galla or something.
Literally every night. Do you remember this? For something like
two or three years, Like we were literally out every
damn night together, not just in New York, in Chicago,
(09:39):
in Paris, in places like we were around in Landre
to say it in French. And when did we stop?
Do you remember when we stopped going out every single night?
Speaker 3 (09:51):
Well, I mean it was probably around the time I
got pregnant, I guess, because I was doing.
Speaker 2 (10:02):
My show I performed while I was pregnant at the West.
Speaker 3 (10:05):
Beth, and I continued to go out almost every single night, right, So,
and then I went back to La gave birth to Sicily,
my daughter.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
Maybe that's what it was. Maybe it was about Sicily.
Speaker 2 (10:17):
Fabulous pictures of you and me dancing Opening night on Broadway.
Speaker 3 (10:21):
I'm still here, damn it, which was amazing, amazing. So
I continued to go out even once I had Sicily.
But then when I met Sarah my right, my lady
of now twenty four years.
Speaker 1 (10:36):
My lady, my lady late, we go.
Speaker 3 (10:41):
Out, but I guess things just shifted, you know, as
they do when you have a kid and you're maybe
in a little more like grounded relationship than I'd ever
been in.
Speaker 1 (10:53):
Right, things just shift, and it's like attrition. Things just happen.
And to be perfectly honest with you, I tell myself, like,
you know, did I say something? Did she say something?
Did I forget something? Am I missing something? Did we
fail as friends? Because this podcast is a lot about failure.
Speaker 2 (11:12):
And we did have a we did have a glitch
in our friendship.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
We did write what was it about? Do you remember?
Speaker 3 (11:17):
Because you screamed at me because I said something about.
Speaker 2 (11:22):
A model and your show. I'm not going to mention
your name, because she's a wonderful person. I really liked her,
and I wasn't trashing.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
I just said she looked a little horsey in one
of her looks and went fucking ballistic. I walk out
the door to go do a shoot for the cover
of my album Excuses for Bad Behavior, and you brought
me to tears and I was totaling, yeah, bereft and
freaked out.
Speaker 2 (11:48):
You tore me to shred.
Speaker 1 (11:51):
You're kidding? When was that?
Speaker 2 (11:53):
When was it ninety.
Speaker 3 (11:57):
Four?
Speaker 1 (11:58):
Okay, I don't remember that at all.
Speaker 3 (12:01):
Well, I mean maybe because you just like blew your
stack at me, and you, yeah, a person like a
lot of people who blow their stack and don't think
that that's a big deal.
Speaker 1 (12:12):
By the way, I love the expression blow your stack.
That is so my father, I.
Speaker 2 (12:16):
Guess from our generation.
Speaker 3 (12:18):
You know my father and growing up was like, yes, yeah,
I'm gonna blow my stack. But anyway, I don't consider
this failure. I consider it.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Friendship.
Speaker 3 (12:27):
That was sort of eye opening for me and really
hurt me, and I was really really stunned, and it
also brought me into that realm of when men scream
at women, and I am so fucking over it. I've
spent a lifetime being screamed at by my father, by
different men who have been like my managers or you know,
(12:49):
people in my business, and it's like, I'm so fucking
over it. It's like being pummeled abused. It's misogynistic. I'm
not saying you're being misogynistic, but there's something about men
I don't care, gay, straight or in between, where men
think they can scream at women, and you know what,
I will never let it happen again.
Speaker 1 (13:07):
Wait, okay, so can women scream at men?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
No?
Speaker 1 (13:10):
Is that okay with you?
Speaker 2 (13:11):
No, nobody should scream at anybody.
Speaker 1 (13:13):
I find it a little bit weirdly sexualizing to say
that men scream at women. That is a little general But.
Speaker 2 (13:20):
When they do, it's because they are entitled.
Speaker 3 (13:23):
They have a sense of entitlement, because they're men, and
they so believe, most men that they are in the control.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
But I don't. I would never ever think that, and
I would never ever generalize that, you know, And the
fact that I don't remember it like really hurts that
I don't remember when it was this sort of traumatic
thing in your life that kind of set you back
to such an extension.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
Because you were really really really like like your head.
Speaker 1 (13:53):
Was like, do you think that's where it started to
kind of diminish.
Speaker 3 (13:57):
I've fought differently about you. I try fadacious. I was
more like, you know, uncertain about things. I felt I
could just say without you know, some sort of a big, huge.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Reaction.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
But that's an outstanding moment that to this day has
always sort of stuck with me, and I always felt like,
why didn't I just tell Isaac in the moment that
I did?
Speaker 2 (14:26):
But I should have given it a couple of days
and called you back and said, what the fuck was that?
Speaker 1 (14:30):
Right? Or I should have reached out and said, gosh,
that was a moment. I don't do that. I'm so sorry.
And what was it about? Just to parse it through, right,
to move through it, to move through it. Well, Listen,
before I say another word, Darling, I would like to
apologize to you that I hurt you in that way.
Speaker 2 (14:47):
Thank you?
Speaker 1 (14:48):
I mean it. Can I please do that before I
say the next thing?
Speaker 2 (14:52):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (14:52):
Okay, Well there you go. Okay, let's go a little
bit into the history of you, because what I really
want to know, and I might know the answer to this,
but I want you to put it into your words,
like why did you go into show business? And why
(15:13):
did you go into comedy? Is there a reason you think?
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, I honestly believe I was born to do it
because when I was five years old, my dad was
a doctor.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
His partner, Melt Rosenbaum's wife, Marlene Rosenbaum, never crushed and
she was boiling water. I don't know what she was
going to do with the water, but she goes, what
do you want to be when you grow up?
Speaker 2 (15:34):
I was four or five years old. I said a
comedian and she laughed and I said, no, I will be.
I will be, and she laughed again.
Speaker 3 (15:43):
I was already like performing and entertaining right family, my
three older brothers. I was already in that mindset. It
wasn't like one day I decided I was.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
Going to do it. It was in my consciousness from day one.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
And speaking of the family dynamic and the brothers who
were all amazing who I love, and they're also hot.
I don't know if they're still hot. They're probably like
much older now because I haven't seen them in twenty years,
but they were always really really hot. But do you
think that being this girl among these boys, do you
think that kind of added to your ability to kind of,
(16:23):
I don't know, be funny or something, because I always
think that people get to be funny by practicing, Like
you start being funny at a young age, and you
practice and practice and practice. In some context, do you
think it was that.
Speaker 3 (16:38):
I think that I had a built an audience, right,
And I love that My oldest brother Dan played guitar
and he sang folk songs, so I would sit and
sing with him.
Speaker 1 (16:48):
Right.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
My brother David was he was the most excited about
having a baby sister. He was enthralled by me, my
brother Mark, youngest and age Mark furious because he had
been the youngest and the.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
Baby, right, that really was going to.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
Be it until the happy surprise of Sandy came along
with her and he was like ready to fucking.
Speaker 2 (17:12):
You know, kill me. Right.
Speaker 3 (17:15):
And then my dad, of course, because he had had
three boys and he was not he didn't like men,
and men were a threat to him because he's such
a narcissist. He was thrilled because he had finally had
a baby girl. My mother, according to Jamia Jeanette, told
one of my brothers I think my brother David that
(17:37):
she had homicidal thoughts about killing me and my dad.
Speaker 2 (17:40):
When I was born. Wow.
Speaker 1 (17:43):
You think that was like early postpartum depression of something.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And I don't blame her. She had three little boys.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
He was a sensitive soul. Jeanette was a sensitive.
Speaker 2 (17:52):
Was an introvert. She was a true artist.
Speaker 3 (17:55):
I think had she been born in the next generation,
she would never have gotten married.
Speaker 2 (18:00):
I think she would have just.
Speaker 3 (18:01):
Gone off and done for her and you know, lived
her a monastic lifestyle. She cared about sex. I don't
think she liked being somebody's wife. I don't think she
really loved being a mother. She was pushed into it
by my grandmother, who nabbed my father when he was
in Jackson, Michigan, where my mom was from, when he
was doing his medical internship and he was something on
(18:22):
the scene, like a young single Jewish doctor, so nabbed him.
Speaker 2 (18:28):
For my mom.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
In those days, you could not escape, You had to marry,
you had to have children. It was a must do thing,
especially for a Jewish woman. But Darling, going back to
this idea of you as a performer, first of all,
I think you're so great at so many things. I
think you're an incredible writer. I think you're an incredible singer.
I think you're a great actor. I think you're a
(18:51):
great comedian. But what do you think of yourself as.
Speaker 3 (18:56):
I think myself is an entertainer because I feel I
feet you know, all of those things are incorporated in
what I do. The writing, the singing, the acting, the performing.
And yes I do, I go off and you know,
in different spokes to the wheel, like when I actually
do a role as an actor, but when I'm on stage,
(19:17):
I feel like I bring all those elements together because
I write my shows and I'm very musical, and I
feel like I help arrange a lot of the songs
with Mitch Chaplin, my musical director.
Speaker 2 (19:29):
I control all the levers.
Speaker 1 (19:32):
But wait a second, now, getting back to who you are.
You're talking about yourself as an entertainer, and I also
think of you as a commentator, right, Like you comment
a lot about the scene. But the thing is, Sandra,
like you know today, when you see people who comment
on stuff, you know, it's kind of like an affectation
(19:53):
or it's like in air quotes. You know, it comes
up in their work, it's vetted and in your case,
it's something that is so like ingrained in the person
you are, in the writer, in the musician, in the performer,
in the entertainer, you know what I mean. Talk about that.
Talk about politics for a minute, and not so much
(20:13):
the specifics of being a Democrat and being a liberal
or whatever, but talk about how you think why did
that become such an important thing to you as a performer.
Speaker 3 (20:24):
Because I grew up in a time that was very,
very explosive, you know, the Vietnam era, the feminist era,
the of course racial issues at a time when being
Jewish was you know, it's still not easy for it.
Speaker 1 (20:44):
It feels it feels like it's getting worse to be
these things it's getting But.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
I was, you know, little when John Kennedy was president,
so I was like right away, I was already very
taken by the Kennedy mistique.
Speaker 2 (21:00):
I love John Kennedy. I loved all the stories. I
adore Jackie, the children.
Speaker 3 (21:06):
I just have the stibility, the sophistication, you know, the
sort of high wasp beauty of the whole experience. Was
the first time had really had, you know, talking about
quotes royalty.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
Also the youth of it. We always had such old,
ugly presidents, and he was rather gorgeous and young and glamorous,
and so is she.
Speaker 3 (21:27):
Yeah, and America felt really like we were like gearing
up for something great. And then, of course, you know,
I was in third grade when the news came that
he had been assassinated, and we all went home and
spent the weekend just being like traumatized. I mean, to watch,
you know, Lee Harvey Oswald being shot live on TV.
Speaker 2 (21:49):
In grainy black and white.
Speaker 3 (21:51):
You know, it's like we forget that nobody had ever
experienced anything like that before.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
Really, you know, I think he was when he shot
in like nineteen sixty three or something, or sixty four,
three sixty three. I wasn't yet cognizant. I was already born,
but I was literally a baby baby, like in the cradle.
But I do remember it was the first time I
ever saw my mother cry, like she was destroyed. And
(22:17):
I remember, even at two, however old I was, or three,
I do remember that one moment of feeling fear because
my mother was crying. Yeah, it was a devastating thing.
Speaker 3 (22:27):
Well, I was eight years old, and I was very aware,
and I see it all very clearly. I mean, I
remember being in my third grade class and my teacher
and all my friends.
Speaker 2 (22:37):
We had to run home. As I told her, I
had to run home to.
Speaker 3 (22:40):
Escape things you know as saturations, tornadoes.
Speaker 1 (22:44):
A flock of birds tell you, and snow storms. Exactly.
Speaker 2 (22:49):
It was just like when I was little. It was like,
for some reason, I was always walking home alone. I
had no sooner. Let's Sisley walked down the.
Speaker 1 (22:57):
Sixth god darling.
Speaker 3 (23:00):
But in our generation, you know, maybe my mother want
me to the corner and then waved goodbye.
Speaker 2 (23:05):
I was like, well, I hope I see you.
Speaker 1 (23:07):
Oh, I know exactly. So it was honestly neglectful. I
think they were neglectful. But going back to you and
having politics kind of poured into you, into your DNA
and what it comes out like on stage and in
your performances. And I've noticed sometimes it gets you into
some trouble sometimes, you know, or it used to get
you into some trouble sometimes I don't know about anymore.
Speaker 3 (23:29):
Wells certain there's certain things that I don't do anymore.
I mean, I had Carte Blanche to talk about the
black experience because of my friendship with Paul Mooney, who.
Speaker 1 (23:39):
Was right my mentor right right.
Speaker 3 (23:41):
You know, he went everywhere with me when I started out,
and he got me on the Richard Pryor Show, and
he introduced me to black audiences. And so back then
I was able to say things as in the parlance
that I would say to Mooney. But then all of
a sudden, you couldn't do that anymore, and I was
like a ship, Oh my god, Mooney's not here. The
(24:04):
world has changed. So I'm not allowed to be a
filter of the black experience any in the way I was.
I mean, I know, somebody black performers and audience members
love me because they have a thing about it.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
But it's gotten so.
Speaker 3 (24:19):
Twisted between true racism and people who are you know,
super super allies.
Speaker 1 (24:28):
Allies.
Speaker 2 (24:30):
Okay, that's cool. It's not my story to tell.
Speaker 3 (24:33):
It's my story to defend and celebrate, but it's not
my story.
Speaker 2 (24:40):
So that makes it very different now.
Speaker 3 (24:42):
And so I think once in a while I've said
something and people jump on it, but it's usually not
somebody black.
Speaker 2 (24:49):
It's somebody who's like trying to stir the shit.
Speaker 1 (24:52):
You know. One of my favorite things in the world
about you is your kind of like sticky situation with
the LGBTQ community, Like sometimes they love you so much
(25:16):
and you just open them up, and then other times
my favorite thing in the world. I was actually, you
know this person, Elope, They're a comedian, they're queer, and
they're wonderful. And I was at this party and they
were talking about how difficult it is to navigate the
queer community, and sometimes they're really for them and other
(25:37):
times they really challenge them, and blah blah. I said, Darling,
you have not lived until you were Sandra Bernhardt on
a gay cruise right in nineteen whatever that was, like
eighty nine or ninety two or something.
Speaker 3 (25:50):
Like that book the best booked.
Speaker 1 (25:54):
As the entertainment on that boat and actually being thrown
off the boat for something you said, like how incredibly
punk rock and amazing is that? Sandra? Come on, there
was a DG you came to the boat to get
you off the boat.
Speaker 3 (26:07):
Let me explain to you something that's so fascinating. I
think it's changed. But at that point, so many of
the gay men were from like these smaller towns, and
they saw, even though they were gay, they saw had
a provincial sensibility about you.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
Yes, yeah, what they liked in entertainment and food and clothing.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
The fact that they were gay didn't elevate their sophistication
in any way.
Speaker 2 (26:34):
Shape or form.
Speaker 3 (26:35):
Yeah, So when I started saying, we were on a ship.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Of fools, right right, I hate that's what it was.
Those those ships are so grotesque.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
All a ship, darling. You lost me at ship.
Speaker 3 (26:48):
Unless you're on like you know, Barry Diller in Dian
von Furstenberg's.
Speaker 1 (26:52):
Yacht or the love Boat or the love Boat. You
went on a passover cruise when I was about like
twelve years old or thirteen years old. It was darling
on the Queen Elizabeth two so that my mother wouldn't
have to be darling, so that my mother wouldn't have
to kosher the house. And I was seasick the entire
entire time. Okay, did you go to London, No, honey,
(27:14):
we went to like Saint Lucia and you know the Bahamas.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
And the Qi too.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yes, I'm telling you. It was a passover cruise and
I was say sick the whole time, so I didn't
do anything. This is before everything. There was a movie
theater that had three movies. Okay, I sat through those
fucking three movies. Like about twenty five times each.
Speaker 2 (27:34):
This is insane.
Speaker 1 (27:35):
It's insane. Wait a minute, so, but I do want
to talk to you about you as a spokesperson for
the LGBTQ community and where you are in that whole
thing today. Is it an important facet of who you
are and who you are in the public eye.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
It's only important to me that people are completely supported
and loved and can be exactly who they are are
in that realm. I don't need that support. I've never
needed to define myself like that. I've never had any
issues about my sexuality. It's never been how I've defined myself.
(28:15):
But I am absolutely fiercely at people's you know, beck
and call to.
Speaker 2 (28:23):
Get the love and support they need.
Speaker 1 (28:25):
How do you define yourself? You are bisexual, right, Sandra?
That's how I know you.
Speaker 3 (28:30):
I say bisexual only because I fantasize about having sex
with men. Sometimes not as much anymore because I've been
a Sarah for so long we're together, and that's but
you know what I mean. It's like I find certain
men super.
Speaker 2 (28:41):
Sexy, and you know, I like men.
Speaker 3 (28:44):
I don't even think about it really, Like I'm not
aggressively gay, you.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Know, Yes, I do know, are you aggressively sexual anymore?
Speaker 2 (28:54):
Yeah? I think in certain ways.
Speaker 1 (28:56):
Kay, hooray, good for you with Sarah. Do you have
an open relationship.
Speaker 2 (29:01):
Now, we do not have a relationship that is nothing
but sour us.
Speaker 1 (29:05):
I agree for us, for me and you, but for others.
It's a way of life. I mean, I don't condemn it.
I don't condone it.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
What that means is you have security with the person
you're with, but then you're allowed to run around Saxon
be Yes.
Speaker 1 (29:19):
Yes, people can do it. They can do it. I
mean when me and Arnold talk about being monogamous, we
go like, you know, you know, yes, we are right,
And then I go, yeah, that's maybe one day I
would just and then I try, or I look around,
or someone approaches and I'm like, now my husband's like
way sexy or it's too fabulous. I'm not going to
rock the boat. I'm not going to rock the LGBTQ
(29:42):
cruise or the dinghy that took you off the cranes.
But anyway, I'm glad to know that like you still,
because I too, I feel like a sexy entity. Still.
I still feel sexy, Yeah, especially.
Speaker 3 (29:57):
When I'm like performing and I'm going out and get
my hair makeup.
Speaker 1 (30:01):
Done, and yeah, I guess.
Speaker 2 (30:03):
I tried into different you know, modes.
Speaker 1 (30:08):
Speaking of modes, you are a mother one of the
most adorable, fascinating young women, Sicily, right, And you're also
the daughter of a fascinating I think, fassing who I
really liked. You know, I really liked your mother. She
was great, She was just great. I think you loved
my mother too. You loved Sarah a lot. Yeah, you
(30:28):
love Sarah. But anyway, talk to me about that. Were
there lessons that Jeanette taught you as a daughter that
you then applied to Sicily.
Speaker 3 (30:39):
I felt I'm bookended by two women. We're a little
bit of stubborn. When my mother was hugely stubborn, Cecily
is stubborn. But I think it's a good thing because
she's of this generation now that if you don't have
a little stubbornness, if you don't have a way to
like process what the world is doing, you'll fall apart.
(31:01):
I feel like I'm both, and it's like I'm more
of the giver, more of the lover, of the tender person,
you know, is a lot more like my mom. She's
an artist, she's more of an introvert, and so it
skipped a generation because that's kind of what my mom was.
She was a visual artist, a painter, a sculptor, and
(31:22):
cicly is you know, she's in the art adjacent.
Speaker 1 (31:26):
World, right, Darling. Can we just call it generational, because
I swear I feel the same way that you do.
I don't have a kid, but I do have a mother.
My mother was a kind of a narcissist. She was
a narcissist who kept it in check and it was
always about her. And sometimes I think to myself, like
that was the only reason I was there, was to
kind of amuse her, you know. And I felt that
(31:49):
way about that generation. I don't think I'm a boomer.
I was born in nineteen sixty one, and when I
was born, I wasn't considered a boomer. Somehow they shifted
the dates and now I'm considered. But I don't have
that whole boomer thing about me, right, But there was
my mom's generation, and then they are the kids in
the world who also feel like they can express themselves
(32:10):
really easily and ask for what they want and get
what they want like sicily, right, Like she can ask
for what she wants, and she will a lot of
times get what she wants, Whereas, like we that kind
of in between generation, we felt a little weird asking
for what we wanted.
Speaker 2 (32:27):
Yeah, absolutely, well, Awsome.
Speaker 3 (32:30):
My mom wasn't always emotionally available when I was little, right,
She had a lot of you know, stuff happening going
on mentally, and I shored her up and I had
to like just really dig deep into my own tiny
little bank of resources, right and become like a super
(32:53):
strong person, which is why I kind of like can
deal with almost anything now. But I'm at the point
where I don't want to. It's innovating, it's just too much.
I want to be with people in situations where it's
just easier.
Speaker 1 (33:06):
Than it's a long way mm hmmm, I understand that.
But it's part of like aging a little bit, right,
You age and you go, you know what, maybe I
don't need all the drama. I don't need all this
ridiculous sourus and you just go like, yeah, I just
like being with easy people.
Speaker 2 (33:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:23):
Well, let's talk a little bit about you. When you
were starting your career, right, did you have a plan?
Did you have a plan for the whole thing? Like
I'm going to move to LA, I'm going to audition,
I'm going to go out there, I'm going to do
stand up and then I'm going to do this, and
then I'm going to do that.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Now I didn't.
Speaker 3 (33:40):
And the only thing I knew that I was going
to do when I moved to l I was go
go to beauty school and become a manicurist.
Speaker 1 (33:46):
Come on, well, I know that's true, but that has
to be a huge surprise for a lot of people
listening to this podcast.
Speaker 3 (33:52):
Because I had to have a job to support myself
if I'm not going to support.
Speaker 1 (33:57):
Me, right, But you know what, Listen, when I was
growing up, I also had to get the hell out
of my house because you know, it was a very
religious thing. It wasn't good. And I knew that if
I was a designer and I could work in a
design room or something, it'd be a lot easier than
what I really wanted to do, which was be a performer,
you know, And I was too scared of that. So
(34:17):
I went and I got a job. You know, I
went to Parsons. But it was part of my plan
to do that, to get into the design world, get
into that do it, you know, sort of make a
place myself and then branch out into show business. And
you're saying you just thought I just want to be
a beautician.
Speaker 3 (34:34):
Oh no, I knew that was the only concrete plan
I had it in terms of, like, once I landed
in La, what I was going to do? I see,
before I started becoming a performer, I didn't know. But
the jumping off place or the.
Speaker 1 (34:47):
Na I see, Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I met up with a bunch of friends, you know,
some people my age.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
I met this woman named Judy Vallen.
Speaker 3 (34:54):
Her parents were like in you know, cabaret for last performers.
Speaker 1 (34:59):
Incredible.
Speaker 3 (35:00):
She left her family back in Ohio, her kids and
husband came back to LA and she was performing, singing
you know, songs her mother wrote at this open mic
night at the Little Club. And I had a party
one night and I got up and did my little,
rudimentary five minutes of material. I didn't know what it was.
I was just entertaining my friends to the party. She goes,
(35:21):
you got to come and do open mic night. So
she took me there. She'd already pulled Paul Mooney about me.
When I got up that first night, he was there
and my friend Lotus Weinstock, my two you know angels,
and they took me under their wings, and that's where
I jumped in.
Speaker 2 (35:38):
I didn't know that it would be in the stand
up comedy world.
Speaker 3 (35:41):
I always thought I was going to go to New
York and do Broadway musicals because I loved I love
Carol Channing and I love Barbers streisand and that's kind
of the last thing I want to do now. I mean,
just the monotony of doing the same show over and
over again doesn't interest me and ended up not interesting me.
So yeah, so that's how it off him together. It
(36:02):
was very organic. I didn't have a formal plan. That's
when I knew it was really meant to be, because it.
Speaker 2 (36:07):
Just happened in such a natural way and it just
like took off from there.
Speaker 1 (36:13):
Is there a moment where you feel you had a
set back in all of that, like where you just failed,
Like did you miss something, did you not get a
job that you really wanted to get, did you not
get apart?
Speaker 3 (36:24):
I wasn't auditioning for anything at first, my first four years.
Speaker 2 (36:30):
I was just performing.
Speaker 3 (36:32):
And then I was on the Richard Pryor Show and
I did Dollar ninety eight Beauty Contest, and I did
Fernwood Tonight.
Speaker 2 (36:39):
I did all the other little TV.
Speaker 3 (36:42):
Circuit where people would just get plugged in and you
would do your little act in like this setting right
of people talking to you. And then I did a
Cheech and shawng movie. And I did this movie called
The House of God. It was based on some book
about a hospital in Boston.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
So I did I did all these.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Little things and there were perfect little things to do
that kind of got me, you know, the tea set
for the big swing into King of Comedy, m.
Speaker 1 (37:08):
The breakthrough that was the big breakthrough.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
Had I not gotten that, maybe that would have been
a setback.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
But because I did get that, the entire landscape of
my life and my career.
Speaker 1 (37:18):
Right, what was that audition? Like did you audition?
Speaker 2 (37:21):
Audition?
Speaker 3 (37:21):
But I my agent at the time didn't get me
up for it. My friend Lucy Webb there was Comedy
Partners with Cheryl Henry who you know, Yes, she had
gone for it and she was totally wrong and she
called Sis Corman, the casting director.
Speaker 1 (37:36):
I got it on my behalf. Wow, that is a
beautiful thing.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
I went in and I read for her because they
wanted somebody who could improvise, so I did have a
little improvisation and thing for her, and she was like,
I think you need to meet Marty. So the next
day I met Marty and Marty and Hobby and then
they came to see me at the Comedy Store and
Richard Belser got up and did like a little improv
(38:02):
with me, as if we were like amazing the characters
in King of Comedy. And then a month went by
and then they flew me to New York and I
did my last audition with Jerry Lewis, and then two
days later they called me in my hotel room at
the Mayflower on Central Park West. It's not there anymore,
and Sis Carmon said, you've got the job.
Speaker 1 (38:24):
Wow, that is an amazing say, oh, Sandra, I can't
even bear it. I had. The rest is history. So
you're looking back now, are there any regrets? I hate
(38:46):
the word regret, but it's a good word because it's descriptive.
Do you regret something?
Speaker 3 (38:51):
But really, I mean, there were a few things that
I was offered that I could have done that I
didn't do, but none of them to me are like
stand out, you know, performances by anybody else. I was like,
damn it, why the fuck didn't they do that? You know,
I feel like I could have had better representation at
different points in my career. Right when I was with
(39:13):
Sue Mangers, that was amazing, and the gang over it
well more so than they all left, And then sometimes
I was sort of in the lurch, you know.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
Right there was a quote that I pulled from somewhere
from some of the research that said that you thought
maybe if you were better at playing the game, you
might have made more money or something. You don't think
about that.
Speaker 3 (39:32):
Yeah, yeah, that's true, you know what I mean. It's
just been a little bit too myself. But I don't
think that's a bad thing. I think it's a good
thing for me.
Speaker 1 (39:40):
Looking back is difficult, but of course, like having you
as a main guest on this podcast, I can't help
looking back, and I can't help asking you to look
back because you know, we've known each other for such
a long time. But now talking about us together and
knowing each other for such a long time and aging,
(40:01):
is there a plan? Now? Do you have any plans?
Speaker 2 (40:05):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (40:06):
Yeah, I have a lot of plans. I'm definitely gonna
keep performing live.
Speaker 1 (40:10):
Okay, it's a really important thing. Like we're at this age.
I am sixty one. How old are you, darling. I
know you don't care if we ask you that you're
sixty eight. Okay. So we're approaching seventy, which is a
big number, right, And I feel like planning is a big, big,
big thing at this age.
Speaker 3 (40:26):
I've just got fabulous new manager, this woman Marnie, who
I love, wonderful and she is she's not young, and
she's probably fifty and she just loves me and gets
me and wants to make things happen. Of course, we're
in the middle of a writer's strike, and I know
in the emminent you know, actors strike as tonight at midnight,
(40:48):
and we should strike because we've got to get what
we need now or we will lose everything.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
This I will statement dark, I will.
Speaker 3 (40:56):
Be political again. Must be unionized in this country. Unions
were invented to protect workers from injury, from being milian attacked.
Speaker 1 (41:08):
By the way, people don't think of actors or writers
as these creatures that need unionization, but they especially do,
they especially do. Yeah, well, Darling, the last question that
I ask all of my people that I interview is
what would your obituary? What would the headline be?
Speaker 2 (41:28):
I can't do that.
Speaker 1 (41:29):
That's why you can't do it. You're not well, you
know our obituaries have already been written.
Speaker 2 (41:33):
That's that's that's.
Speaker 1 (41:37):
No, she's not doing it. Okay, Darling, that's a good answer,
Thank God forbid. That's as good an answer as like,
you know, she was amazing and she made everybody happy
and and and and square me for a few years, right, exactly,
all right, Well tell us what you want to plug.
Speaker 2 (41:55):
Okay. My show is called Spring Affair.
Speaker 3 (41:59):
I am at the Park Theater on August nineteenth in Minneapolis.
Speaker 2 (42:06):
I'll be at.
Speaker 3 (42:06):
Oscars and Palm Springs October twelve, I think that's right.
It's on my website, and then I'll be back at
the Wallace Annenberg in Beverly Hills October nineteenth.
Speaker 2 (42:19):
Those are shows that are set in stone. I want
them sold out. I want people to get that.
Speaker 3 (42:25):
My shows on the West Coast are called Lady of
the Canyon. It's a tribute to la and all the
years that I would drive over Laurel Canyon to go
back to the valley and be so inspired by the music.
I was listening to and the energy of all the
great people who lived in Laurel Canyon and wrote and
performed sounds incredible. You can go to my website, Sanderburnhard
(42:50):
dot com, and of course, if you're on Instagram or
any of those kinds of platforms, you can do linked
in bio.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
Okay, love you, I love you. I love you forever, forever,
Darling forever mean, I.
Speaker 3 (43:07):
Mean, that's insane. Of course we love each other, Yes,
we do very much. You mean so much to me, me.
Speaker 1 (43:14):
Too, my dear choking up all right, I'm not kidding. Wow,
what an incredible conversation, What a beautiful resolution, What a
burden has been lifted from my chest. I'm so glad
(43:37):
that I got a chance to hear all that from Sandra.
I'm really really grateful that I got the chance to
truly apologize for that moment. And in an ironic way,
even though Sandra was talking about how she thinks therapy
is questionable and she's a little bored with the thought, darlings,
(43:57):
I think that that was a couples therapy session in
the making right there, And I feel really grateful that
you were with me. You all listen to that somehow
it made it even realer to me. Thank you, And
you know, on top of everything, I'm really really looking
(44:18):
forward to spending more time with Sandra, to having a
more casual kind of friendship as we used to. That's
exciting to me. Darlings. If you enjoyed this episode, do
me a favor and tell someone, Tell a friend, tell
your mother, tell your cousin, tell everyone you know. Okay,
(44:39):
and be sure to rape the show. I love rating stuff.
Go on and rate and review the show on Apple
Podcasts so more people can hear about it. It makes
such a gigantic difference and like it takes a second,
so go on and do it. And if you want
more fun content videos and posts of all kines, follow
(45:01):
the show on Instagram and TikTok at Hello Isaac podcast
And by the way, check me out on Instagram and
TikTok at. I Am Isaac, Mssrahi. This is Isaac, Missrahi.
Thank you, I love you and I never thought I'd
say this, but goodbye Isaac. Hello Isaac is produced by
(45:25):
Imagine Audio, Awfully Nice and I AM Entertainment for iHeartMedia.
The series is hosted by me Isaac Msrahi, Hello Isaac.
Is produced by Robin Gelfenbein. The senior producers are Jesse
Burton and John Assanti. It is executive produced by Ron Howard,
Brian Grazer, Caarra Welker, and Nathan Kloke at Imagine, Audio
(45:47):
production management from Katie Hodges, Sound design and mixing by
Cedric Wilson. Original music composed by Ben Waltzer. A special
thanks to Neil Phelps and Sarah katmak at i AM
Entertainment
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