April 16, 2024 • 31 mins
In our first bonus episode, we try to make sense of an unimaginable loss. In early January 2024, our “Hello, John Doe” host Todd Matthews died, suddenly. This episode memorializes Todd, a pioneer and an original. We couldn’t let him go to the other side of the veil without a proper goodbye. And Kate Mishkin, our producer talks to Steve Patterson one last time to discuss the impact Todd had on his life.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
By the end of December twenty twenty three, our team
had wrapped up production on Hello John Dale. Todd and
I talked a little bit about what we'd both do next,
how excited we were about the show coming out, what
kind of other unbelievable stories he'd come across that might
warrant a second season. On January third of this year,
I got a call from my editor Catherine.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Todd had passed away that morning.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
He was only fifty three. I'm still not exactly sure
how to process this. None of us are, but our
team did what we knew we had to. We flew
to Tennessee, paid our respects, and dedicated an episode to
(00:47):
Todd Matthew's remarkable life.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
We do have a very full flight this morning, so
if we do have a larger roller release, but it.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Is Wales first.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We couldn't let Todd go to the other side of
the veil without a proper goodbye, and we wanted to
finish what Todd started. Reached back out to Steve one
last time to see what it all meant to him.
My name is Kate Michigan and this is Hello John Doe.
(01:15):
A sleuth, a family and a serial killer. The story
of a family torn apart by tragedy and Todd's quest
to break them back together. This is Chapter eleven, the
first of three bonus episodes.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
This one's for Todd.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Todd'stown, Livingston, Tennessee, is about an hour and a half
outside of Nashville, a little sleepy and tucked away between
mountains and trees. It was just a few days after
the New year. The trees were barren gray. Todd's visitation
was at a funeral home right next to the clothing
boutique his wife, Florrie ran.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
And so today we gather to honor and to celebrate
the remarkable life of Todd Matthews.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
There was so many people there, a lot of people.
They were weaving us back and forth in the pews,
and all I could do was watch that little TV
thing showed dollar pictures.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
You know, that's Rosemary Westbrook. You might remember her from
our first episode. She's the sister of Tent Girl, the
very first woman Todd helped identify, the one that basically
changed his life and obviously changed hers.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
It was a lot of thoughts running through your head
of many years past.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Rosemary and her family drove up from Arkansas to say goodbye.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
They were among the hundreds. There were people from the
dough Network family.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Seed helped reunite his own family, his wife, their two kids,
and his grandkids. People from Hutchinson, the factory where he
started his career. Tina Hall, his cousin who grew up
with him, was surprised by the wide range of people
who showed up.
Speaker 7 (02:55):
I knew he had done a lot, but even after
his passing now, it's just amazing how many people came
out to the funeral home and the stories about how
he touched their lives. We were so proud of me.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
There were so many people in the receiving line that
Todd's wife, Flor, stood by the casket for more than
four hours.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
You know how you kind of listen in on stories
as you're passing through this weaving motion, and most of
them were stories of Todd being a prankster. You know
how he played a trick on this one, played trick
on that one, and tell somebody to go do something
and watch them come out the building and laugh at him.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I overheard that same thing. I knew this firsthand.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
But Todd didn't change his persona if he was at
the factory or the doughnut work or the Department of Justice,
or in his living room. He was the same guy, tenderhearted,
with a propensity for tricks. We paid our respects and
then came back the next day for the funeral. That's
when we met John Brett, an old friend of Todd's.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
I first met Todd in an unconventional way. I was
working as an investigative reporter at WLAXTV in Lexington, Kentucky.
I was sitting at my desk one afternoon in the newsroom.
In the phone rang and I picked it up and
fat voice he started the conversation with You're gonna think
(04:18):
I'm crazy, but please don't hang up until you hear
my story. And that call was about the tent girl case.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
John was taken with Todd. Who was this guy?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Todd ended up doing his first TV interview with John
back in nineteen ninety eight. This was a milestone for
him and the beginning of a lifelong friendship between two men.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
He was a son, a husband, a father, a poppy,
and to many of us here a friend and a mentor.
His humor, as we've heard his legendary as his investigative skills.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Todd was famous in Livingstone, not just because of his
national profile. He was an original, hard to miss.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
He was a man who found joy in life's simplest moments,
whether it was nurturing his garden or cooking the meal
for his family. His passing leaves a void that can
never be filled, but his legacy is immortal. It lives
on in the lives that he touched, the mysteries that
he solved, the love he spread.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
If you've been listening to this podcast, you know Todd
had a pretty unique relationship to death. Like he said himself,
he confronted it early on when he lost his two siblings,
and it was a huge part of how he made
his living reuniting dead and missing people with their families.
Todd talked a lot about death before his passing, not
in a morbid way.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
He was just a matter of fact about it.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
I'm not squeamish. Acada Cereal, Elbadrasco.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
A few years ago, some documentary filmmakers from Morgan Freeman's
production company filmed Todd when they were thinking about making
a movie about him. After he died, we listened back
to those recordings. I was stunned by how poignant his
words were and his passing, the gained meaning became even
more profound.
Speaker 8 (06:11):
Death is part of life, It is a real chapter
of life. You have to accept that as you've done enough,
you've done everything that you can do, accept the things
you can't change, and embrace the things that you can.
So that's what I had to do to make myself
be okay, because I feel like I'm somebody that wants
to see you want it all, but sometimes you have enough.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
As we were making Hello John Doe, when he thought
we were capturing the story of Steve Patterson, we didn't
realize we were documenting the last years of Todd's life too.
You've heard Todd talk about losing his brother and sister.
Speaker 8 (06:47):
I was two years old, but I still remember fragments
of the emotion.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
What he hadn't told you yet was that he had
open heart surgery when he was just eight years old.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
There was a period of time I wasn't expected to live,
so growing up, I really never expected to be here today.
So I feel like almost my entire adult life, I
felt like I was living on barred time. I wasn't
planning on being a grandfather, but yet I'm here. So
it gives you a different point of view. I don't
feel like life was owed to me. I felt like
(07:20):
I was granted life that was beyond what I expected.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I always wondered what was driving Todd?
Speaker 8 (07:33):
So you do have to appreciate it, and I do.
I do appreciate it. It's like, so what do you
do with it?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I guess this was that he was compelled to do
something with the time he was given. He didn't just
help one family, he helped dozens, hundreds.
Speaker 8 (07:48):
And it was a strange niche with missing and unidentified.
You don't just choose that, it chooses you. And maybe
that's what's kept me here for so long.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It just feels like Todd was born to do this
kind of to nestle into people's lives at their darkest points.
Speaker 8 (08:04):
I do make friends really quickly with people, and that's
just my nature. Some of my best friends are dead,
but it's okay. They were dead when I met him,
and it's like, why is that weird? And I don't
think that's inappropriate, not at all.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I don't.
Speaker 8 (08:17):
I think it's absolutely necessary and matters of life and death,
it's absolutely necessary that somebody truly knows that you're going
to do everything you can to resolve it for them.
Just because somebody's unclaim doesn't mean they're unwanting.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
All this to say, when Todd died, I hope he'd
already meet peace with it.
Speaker 8 (08:36):
I think death is such a stigma because people it's
something you don't want to do. You know, It's like
nobody wants to die. You heard the saying everybody wants
to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. It's
just like it's easy to just like, let's just forget
about that. Let's push it away. That's going to be
a long time from now. I don't want to deal
with it. It's only sad, it's only bad. Let's not
think about it. But it's just like it is a
part of life.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
In this video, Todd was in the car showing the
producers around Livingstone. He was wearing a basel cop and
he had a look on his face. I came to
know fairly well, it's kind of a lopsided grinnin like
he's already thinking five steps ahead of you. You've pulled
up to the cemetery where his brother and sister were buried.
Speaker 8 (09:16):
I think if you can prepare for it and accept it,
because you're not going to change it. I would love
to change it if I could. But I realized that
instead of avoiding it and pushing it off, evading it,
you got to think about what do I need to
do before I'm here? What do I need to do
to finish up some things in life before I lay
down here and go to sleep myself. I don't want
(09:38):
to have that damnation of wishing I had of So
that's why I want to do now while I have time,
because I know the day is coming I lay down here,
so I want to do it with a clean slate.
If I could say that, I'd like to do it
when I think you know what you don't know all
you can do, be proud of it, be happy so
(09:59):
you laid it when the work is done.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
In that interview, Todd talked about how he felt about dying,
but he didn't talk about everyone he'd leave behind, and
he didn't give us instructions on what we're supposed to
do without him. Lately, Todd's family's been wondering how to
live in a world without him. His son, Devin, who's
twenty two, saw his dad's work up close.
Speaker 9 (10:24):
He went to Kentucky one time I was with him
when he exhoomed a grave. I was there for a
part of that, and that was really really cool. He
was just in his element.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Todd never shielded his kids from what he did for
a living.
Speaker 9 (10:36):
From a pretty young age, I knew exactly what it
was because I I had to know. I was always
nosy and it was never like a traumatizing thing. It
was always just like, oh wow, Okay, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Which meant that when the time came, Devin felt better
equipped to deal with grief than most.
Speaker 9 (10:55):
I mean, if there's anybody that's helped me realize that
it happens to everyone and all different kinds of ways,
it's him, and I don't know, I feel like it's
given me a better outlook on it.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Not shielding his kids from dath meant Devin and his
brother Dylan grew up with a pretty unique understanding of it.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
They had to roll with Todd's morbid sense of humor.
Speaker 10 (11:17):
I remember specifically, growing up, we had this head in
the house. It was a skull and it was facially reconstructed.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That's Todd's older son, Dylan, So.
Speaker 10 (11:29):
It looked like a woman's head. It had the eyes
and everything, and we had a small chihuahua and we
didn't want the dog getting into that and messing with it,
so at night that that head would have to be
in my room. He'd get up at like four o'clock
in the morning to go to work when he worked
at Hutchinson, the.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Factory down the street where Todd helped make air conditioning parts.
Speaker 10 (11:51):
Every night when I went to bed, I turned that
head away from me because it was creepy. And every
morning when I woke up, it was facing me. And
he never admitted to it. I was like nine years
old allways, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, he never admitted
to it his whole life. But I mean I had
(12:11):
not Marrius about that thing.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
He was always causing trouble. He loved pranking people.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Todd and his cousin Tina were like brother and sister,
only seventeen months apart. Once, when they were adults, they
went to the grocery store while both of their kids
were at karate practice. They opened Todd's trunk in the
parking lot.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Todd said, watch out for her and be careful with her,
and I'm like who. He points to a box and
it was a box of bones. And he was taken somewhere,
you know, And this wasn't uncommon for Todd to have
something like this in his car.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Then later in the night, Tina opened the trunk again,
something fell.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
Out, and I was terrified to looke. I just covered
my eyes. I said, please tell me it wasn't her.
Please tell me it wasn't her. It was my twelve
packag of popes. But still I was terrified.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
He was always up to something.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
When Todd and I drove across North Carolina to meet
Steve's family over Memorial Day weekend in twenty twenty three,
he took every opportunity to tell me about his many
irons in the fire. Todd's ambitions went way beyond the
Department of Justice. He had ideas for at least two
other podcasts. There was his screenplay about the Bounty Hunter.
He officiated weddings, He dabbled in the wine business, and
(13:22):
he had a prolific side career in background acting, including
in a twenty twenty two movie called Santa boot Camp
starring Rita Moreno. Even with all of his projects, Todd
found the time to teach special needs classes at a
middle school. He taught at Livingston Academy, the very same
place he'd gone to school four decades ago.
Speaker 9 (13:41):
I think he left a legacy at the school too,
because a lot of those students with his special needs class,
he really changed their lives and impacted their families. And
I think that he'll be talked about for a long
time around there, especially with the sudden loss, like they
really were prepared to have him in the coming years.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So were we.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
In the final months of production on this podcast, I
told Todd that some of my friends and co workers
had encouraged me to take some time off after the
show was released. I could rest a little recharge think
about the next project. Todd scoffed told me to keep going.
There were too many stories to tell. Honestly, I liked
hearing that from him. He had a motor he'd rest. Later,
(14:27):
his sons told me Todd was feeling really good about
his life, including this podcast coming out. He was looking
forward to the end of winter break, to getting back
to teaching the kids.
Speaker 9 (14:37):
And he said that he had a really good like
end of the year, and he just he hadn't been
this happy in a long time. He was about to
go back to work Wednesday would have been his first
day back. He was so excited.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You'd think work was his life.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
But if you were here, he'd tell you the most
important things happened at home. He haspecially loved his grandkids,
Connor and River. He talked about them all they time.
Speaker 10 (15:01):
He loved my kids. He said, if we could just
have skipped the kids and went straight to the grandkids,
that he could not have been naster to my kids.
If that was the only thing he ever accomplished, was
making those two kids, those two grandkids possible, then that
would have been enough for him.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Todd and his family all basically lived on one block.
Todd and his wife, Flri were in one house. Dylan
and his family were within eyesight. Todd's parents were there too,
even Todd's brother for the Matthews family taught us everywhere.
Speaker 10 (15:31):
When I walk out the door, I could almost see
him walking down the driveway to his house. I can't
look out the door without seeing some plant he's planted,
some tree planted.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
When Todd passed away, his family took on a unique
assignment writing letters to him.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Then they buried them with him.
Speaker 10 (15:49):
My mother's letters in his left breast pocket, my letters
in his right breast pocket. My kid's letters are in
his hands. He would have loved those letters. Things we
all should have said to him every day, but you
don't get a chance until it's too late. Sometimes. If
he was miraculously able to come back and get possession
(16:10):
of those, that would be his most cherished things he
could possibly have in his life if.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
He did come back.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
A few of his relatives kind of joked about Todd's
return from the beyond. Family member Brent Right even made
a joke about it at the funeral.
Speaker 11 (16:24):
I'm still in somewhat of disbelief.
Speaker 12 (16:27):
I still think this might be one of Todd's pranks.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Now.
Speaker 12 (16:30):
I'm just waiting for him to pop out in the
corner somewhere and say a.
Speaker 11 (16:33):
Hi, I got you.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
This was a part of Todd too.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
There was something about him that was a little supernatural,
like he had a direct line to the dead. When
Todd started telling me about this and I brushed it off,
but there was something about the way he said it,
I kind of just began believing it. Here's his son, Dylan.
Speaker 10 (16:54):
Off the record, of course, but I made a joke
to a lot of the family members. I think you
better stay away from Uija board for a while because
your house will be possessed with the spirit of Todd. Well,
you can't. I don't mind. He would enjoy that joke.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I think Todd had a sense of humor about death
and the afterlife.
Speaker 10 (17:11):
My mom even said she's like, I'll know if it's
possible to come back, because she said, if anybody's coming back,
he's coming back. He always said he would too. He's like,
I'll haunt her. But you're just joking, you know, But
just joking.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
He's not really talking about a ghost hiding under a
white sheet. Todd's beliefs I think were really more spiritual.
He talked about being on one side of the veil
that separated life and death. The way Todd talked about it,
that veil was more sure for him than for most.
Speaker 9 (17:45):
I can kind of feel his presence sometimes, Like when
I'm thinking about him, I'm just like, like, this is weird.
Like I can feel that you're here, but I can't
see that you're here. It's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I like to think he's right.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I hope he had a way to see the hundreds
of people who showed up for him in his funeral.
I think he'd be proud of the way his son
summoned the courage to be interviewed on maybe the hardest
day of their lives. I think he'd be thrilled to
see the release of this podcast, a project he'd been
ostensibly working on for twenty years. But it really all
started with Tent Girl. This is Rosemary Westbrook again, Tent
(18:18):
Girl's sister.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
There is nothing. I don't think that anybody could ever
match what he has done. And if it wasn't for
Tod being so damn persistent, we'd still not know where
she was. So what is Todd mean to us?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Everything?
Speaker 6 (18:38):
And who's to say that he might leave a little
tidbit of information here, little clues you don't know that
you know. Do I believe in God?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yes?
Speaker 11 (18:48):
I do.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Do I believe in Todd? Yes? I do.
Speaker 11 (18:54):
Hey Steve, it's Kate, Hey Kate. How are you?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'm good?
Speaker 8 (18:58):
How about you?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The last we'd heard from Steve, he'd been surprised by
his biological mom, Sandy, at a hotel room in North Carolina.
Todd wanted Steve to find peace, and he thought that
meeting his.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Birth mom would help that along.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But after that day, Todd came to realize that Steve
deserved a head's up. He should have had the chance
to decide whether it was time to meet his biological
mom or not. The surprise reunion caused a bit of
a break in Steven Todd's relationship. I suspected Steve had
some complicated feelings about Todd. The last time he saw
Todd was in that hotel room last August. He was
(19:32):
shocked by Todd's death just five months later in early January.
Speaker 11 (19:36):
It was a lot of a mixed emotions because I
don't know, I didn't get to tell him marry Christmas,
because we it was kind of weird between us, just
because we had met. And he brought my mom there.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
You know.
Speaker 11 (19:49):
I feel bad about that, I really do, because he
didn't tell me that he was bringing my mom at
the motel room.
Speaker 12 (19:56):
He sprang it all on him.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's Steve's girlfriend, Janette.
Speaker 12 (20:00):
He brung it on Steve and that was just not
what he wanted and how it was all handled was wrong,
and like that. I feel like they did it without
me and Steve's mom there on purpose because they knew
how he felt and Steve wasn't going to stand up
(20:20):
for himself, and so there was a little tension.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I guess no one expected this to be the last
conversation between the men. Todd said to himself in the
last episode. He expected that in a few years they'd
reconnect and continued on the path together.
Speaker 11 (20:37):
I wish I had told you to marry Chris.
Speaker 12 (20:40):
Steve had just beat himself up over that because he
didn't reach out Christmas, and like, you don't think that
you're not going to be able to like fix it,
and so you know, Steve struggled with that a little bit,
because you fight and then you fix it, and like
they didn't have time to fix it.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Steve said that even when they were distant, he didn't
forget how Todd got into his life in the first place.
Speaker 11 (21:08):
I didn't learn respect for him, not at all. I
just think.
Speaker 12 (21:14):
It just could have handled it could have been handled differently. Well,
that doesn't change how Steve felt about.
Speaker 11 (21:20):
I mean, I love Todd, yeah.
Speaker 12 (21:21):
Absolutely, I mean it was just like a normal family fuss.
Speaker 11 (21:26):
He felt like we were brothers. Yeah, And he told
me that numerous times.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I'd never heard this from Steve, that the brotherhood may
have felt reciprocal to him too. All along, Steve had
been getting to know his biological family. He never knew
along the way he came Todd too.
Speaker 11 (21:47):
But he was one of the greatest people I've ever
known in my life.
Speaker 12 (21:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 11 (21:51):
Oh it was great. Man. He came to bat for
me when nobody else came to bat, including the FBI,
the police, just anybody. I mean, he believed my story.
He was the only one before anybody ever believed it.
Speaker 12 (22:09):
And if you could have heard see when he called me,
because he's like he believes me, like he's gonna help us.
He believed me. It was just insane. Yeah, nobody believed us.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
Man.
Speaker 11 (22:21):
If it wouldn't have been for him, I wouldn't even
be where I'm at right now. I would still be
a missing person.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Steve says he's still talking to his sisters.
Speaker 11 (22:31):
I love my sisters that I'm just the same dude
I was. I had a good childhood with my mom.
I'm just a normal guy with just a fucked up story.
Speaker 13 (22:46):
Thanks, thanks, going, Okay it is Yes, it was rust
for a little bit, but that was in rough Like
people don't find things out like this about themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
But you.
Speaker 13 (23:01):
What good.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Then Steve said something that knocked the wind out.
Speaker 11 (23:06):
Of me and I just wondered, who's gonna take his place? Oh,
I mean, I'm not the smartest man in the world computers,
but I would like to do that too. Really, I mean,
if I could change somebody's life like he changed mind, man,
that would be good for me.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Steve wants to volunteer with the Doe Network, the online
platform Todd started at the beginning of his career. I
can't think of anything more meaningful. Todd and his wife
Lori had been married for thirty six years. You met
Laurie in episode one. Todd always talked about the two
like they were something even more than soulmates, that they
were meant to be together. Laurie's dad was the one
(23:51):
who found ten Girl, so in a way, the two
were intertwined.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Early on, he loved to make people lay off. The
biggest thing he did is he liked to scare you.
You could jump out anywhere, you could come out of
the bathroom, out of the hallway, wherever he would jump
out and scare again. He would have the biggest laugh.
But we would always get mad, because you know, you
don't like being scared.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
But I got to work. I was doing him the
same way, and he didn't like it as well either.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Laurie also told me that Todd loved being outside. He'd
spend hours out there in silence, just thinking. He left
to have his hands in the dirt planting something new.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
He planted a tree every year. He planted a tree
for our anniversary.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
He planned a tree for each kids a birth date,
like he would plant a tree on the day they
were born. He planted a tree on her grand babies birthdays.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Despite his money, projects and interests, Todd always made time
for his family. He and Laurie would go out to
dinner or go shopping. He met her dinner every single night.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Family meant everything to Todd. He always wanted us to
get together. He always wanted to have cookouts, Thanksgiving, Christmas.
We had always had to do things together.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Why do you think that was what about him wanted that.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I think it had something to do with maybe his
brother and sister passing at an early age. He just
always wanted everybody to be together, be happy.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I asked Laurie about what Devin had said about Todd
being so satisfied. In the last days of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
We spent the Saturday night with my family and then
we went to a New Year's Eve party, and then
we had New Year's Day and then the day after
and we was just preparing for work and we.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Just we just got along. We were happy.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Just we did everything together and we talked about stuff
and just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
He just said, Laurie, I did the best three days.
He was just like, I finally got where I wanted
to be.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
They're incredibly close. But Todd kept a lot of his
work to himself.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I think he hid a lot of his stress.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I think he stayed up many nights, tortured over you know,
some of the cases that he worked on, you know,
like the Steve Patterson case. You know, it did bother him.
He really wanted to solve that case.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
For her part, Laurie didn't give Tod's work too much.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Thought.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I wasn't interested in his work because I lived it,
so it wasn't enjoyable for me.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
But now I realize I'm going to have to live it.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Why do you feel like you have to do it?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I would love to see his work continue, and I
don't know who else could do it.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Now, she's trying to learn how the dough network works
so she can carry on the torch and carry on
Todd's legacy of reuniting these families. Maybe she can help
bring others peace.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I'm trying to do some research, trying to look for
some missing people that hopefully I can take over and
help him and just continue his work. My goal is
to keep the donutwork going and just trying to continue
what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
What's it been like to learn that what's involved.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
It's a lot harder than I thought it said. It's
a chorer trying to get through everything. And the enormity
of how many people are actually missing or unidentified. I
did not realize that so many people are struggling and
suffering looking for their families, and all of these missing
people and all the unidentified. There is people looking for them.
(27:09):
There has to be, So it's just flowing my mind
how many people it really is.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I told her host Steve wanted to help out too.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I mean, we'll accept any volunteer. I mean, the Do'
network is a family of volunteers. You know, if he
wants to volunteer, we'd be more than happy to have him.
We can set him up. Maybe he can one day
thought a missing person case.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
It's given Laurie a deeper appreciation for her husband's work.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
He showed me what it was like to have an
impact on people in the world. He showed me how
he was a great teacher. He showed me that you
can get places by working.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I do think that Tod did make me a better person.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
In the months before he died, Todd and Laurie would
take walks together at night and they'd listen to early
mixes of this podcast. Laurie would always want Todd to
pause the podcast so she could ask questions, why did
you say that?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Because you know, he just didn't discuss it with me,
because he just didn't feel like I was interested in
his work, which you know, I wish now that i'd
show more than I was.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
But I was always proud of him.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Laurie's been listening to this podcast as it comes out,
but with every week that goes by, there are fewer
episodes to listen to.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
It's hard to listen to them. But it does give
me peace because I know that's what he wanted. The
podcast is very comforting and it's his legacy. It's what
he wanted to do. It made him happy, and I
can hear his voice even after he's gone. I'm just
so glad he got the finish shit too.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
It's just perfect coming.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I know, I know, maybe that was his goal in life.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Maybe that's what he was supposed to do. Finished the podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yes, yeah, And in a way, you're kind of finishing
it for him because this will be the last episode.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Yes, that's true. That's true. It's pretty special and I
will love him forever.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
If you'd like to know more about do network or donate,
visit donetwork dot org.
Speaker 9 (29:29):
Hello.
Speaker 8 (29:30):
John Doe is and original productions by Revelations Entertainment in
association with First and Last Productions from Revelations. Our executive
producers are Morgan Freeman and James Younger. From First to Last,
Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is
Neo on Hume Media. It was written and produced by
Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is
(29:51):
also ne On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer
is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our
associate produce sir is Rufaro Faith Masarua. Sound design and
mixing by Scott Summerville. Theme and original music composed by
Jesse Pearlstein. Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue
Dot Sessions. Bendall Faulton is our fact checker. Our production
(30:14):
manager is Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan
is our executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben at
Nie on Hum and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeartMedia.
I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about name us
at NamUs dot com. The number for the National Center
for Missing Exploited Children's Call Center is one eight hundred
the loss that's one eight hundred eight four three five
(30:38):
six seven eight. The National Sexual Assault Hotline from the
Rate Abuse and Incest National Network is one eight hundred
sixty five six four six seven three.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
We have two more bonus episodes for you starting next week.
Next episode, we talk to an expert about late discoverers
adoptees like Steve Patterson, who discovered late in life that
they were adopted to impact that house on their lives.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Join us.
Speaker 8 (31:03):
Okay, guys, this is the end of the show. If
you didn't like it, don't do anything. But if you
did like it, you make sure that you rate, and
review the show. It helps more people to find it
and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again for listening.
By the end of December twenty twenty three, our team
had wrapped up production on Hello John Dale. Todd and
I talked a little bit about what we'd both do next,
how excited we were about the show coming out, what
kind of other unbelievable stories he'd come across that might
warrant a second season. On January third of this year,
I got a call from my editor Catherine.
Speaker 2 (00:24):
Todd had passed away that morning.
Speaker 1 (00:27):
He was only fifty three. I'm still not exactly sure
how to process this. None of us are, but our
team did what we knew we had to. We flew
to Tennessee, paid our respects, and dedicated an episode to
(00:47):
Todd Matthew's remarkable life.
Speaker 3 (00:50):
We do have a very full flight this morning, so
if we do have a larger roller release, but it.
Speaker 4 (00:53):
Is Wales first.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
We couldn't let Todd go to the other side of
the veil without a proper goodbye, and we wanted to
finish what Todd started. Reached back out to Steve one
last time to see what it all meant to him.
My name is Kate Michigan and this is Hello John Doe.
(01:15):
A sleuth, a family and a serial killer. The story
of a family torn apart by tragedy and Todd's quest
to break them back together. This is Chapter eleven, the
first of three bonus episodes.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
This one's for Todd.
Speaker 1 (01:33):
Todd'stown, Livingston, Tennessee, is about an hour and a half
outside of Nashville, a little sleepy and tucked away between
mountains and trees. It was just a few days after
the New year. The trees were barren gray. Todd's visitation
was at a funeral home right next to the clothing
boutique his wife, Florrie ran.
Speaker 5 (01:51):
And so today we gather to honor and to celebrate
the remarkable life of Todd Matthews.
Speaker 6 (01:58):
There was so many people there, a lot of people.
They were weaving us back and forth in the pews,
and all I could do was watch that little TV
thing showed dollar pictures.
Speaker 1 (02:08):
You know, that's Rosemary Westbrook. You might remember her from
our first episode. She's the sister of Tent Girl, the
very first woman Todd helped identify, the one that basically
changed his life and obviously changed hers.
Speaker 6 (02:22):
It was a lot of thoughts running through your head
of many years past.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
Rosemary and her family drove up from Arkansas to say goodbye.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
They were among the hundreds. There were people from the
dough Network family.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Seed helped reunite his own family, his wife, their two kids,
and his grandkids. People from Hutchinson, the factory where he
started his career. Tina Hall, his cousin who grew up
with him, was surprised by the wide range of people
who showed up.
Speaker 7 (02:55):
I knew he had done a lot, but even after
his passing now, it's just amazing how many people came
out to the funeral home and the stories about how
he touched their lives. We were so proud of me.
Speaker 1 (03:07):
There were so many people in the receiving line that
Todd's wife, Flor, stood by the casket for more than
four hours.
Speaker 6 (03:13):
You know how you kind of listen in on stories
as you're passing through this weaving motion, and most of
them were stories of Todd being a prankster. You know
how he played a trick on this one, played trick
on that one, and tell somebody to go do something
and watch them come out the building and laugh at him.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
I overheard that same thing. I knew this firsthand.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
But Todd didn't change his persona if he was at
the factory or the doughnut work or the Department of Justice,
or in his living room. He was the same guy, tenderhearted,
with a propensity for tricks. We paid our respects and
then came back the next day for the funeral. That's
when we met John Brett, an old friend of Todd's.
Speaker 5 (03:56):
I first met Todd in an unconventional way. I was
working as an investigative reporter at WLAXTV in Lexington, Kentucky.
I was sitting at my desk one afternoon in the newsroom.
In the phone rang and I picked it up and
fat voice he started the conversation with You're gonna think
(04:18):
I'm crazy, but please don't hang up until you hear
my story. And that call was about the tent girl case.
Speaker 2 (04:26):
John was taken with Todd. Who was this guy?
Speaker 1 (04:30):
Todd ended up doing his first TV interview with John
back in nineteen ninety eight. This was a milestone for
him and the beginning of a lifelong friendship between two men.
Speaker 5 (04:40):
He was a son, a husband, a father, a poppy,
and to many of us here a friend and a mentor.
His humor, as we've heard his legendary as his investigative skills.
Speaker 1 (04:54):
Todd was famous in Livingstone, not just because of his
national profile. He was an original, hard to miss.
Speaker 5 (05:01):
He was a man who found joy in life's simplest moments,
whether it was nurturing his garden or cooking the meal
for his family. His passing leaves a void that can
never be filled, but his legacy is immortal. It lives
on in the lives that he touched, the mysteries that
he solved, the love he spread.
Speaker 1 (05:25):
If you've been listening to this podcast, you know Todd
had a pretty unique relationship to death. Like he said himself,
he confronted it early on when he lost his two siblings,
and it was a huge part of how he made
his living reuniting dead and missing people with their families.
Todd talked a lot about death before his passing, not
in a morbid way.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
He was just a matter of fact about it.
Speaker 8 (05:47):
I'm not squeamish. Acada Cereal, Elbadrasco.
Speaker 1 (05:52):
A few years ago, some documentary filmmakers from Morgan Freeman's
production company filmed Todd when they were thinking about making
a movie about him. After he died, we listened back
to those recordings. I was stunned by how poignant his
words were and his passing, the gained meaning became even
more profound.
Speaker 8 (06:11):
Death is part of life, It is a real chapter
of life. You have to accept that as you've done enough,
you've done everything that you can do, accept the things
you can't change, and embrace the things that you can.
So that's what I had to do to make myself
be okay, because I feel like I'm somebody that wants
to see you want it all, but sometimes you have enough.
Speaker 1 (06:34):
As we were making Hello John Doe, when he thought
we were capturing the story of Steve Patterson, we didn't
realize we were documenting the last years of Todd's life too.
You've heard Todd talk about losing his brother and sister.
Speaker 8 (06:47):
I was two years old, but I still remember fragments
of the emotion.
Speaker 1 (06:54):
What he hadn't told you yet was that he had
open heart surgery when he was just eight years old.
Speaker 8 (07:00):
There was a period of time I wasn't expected to live,
so growing up, I really never expected to be here today.
So I feel like almost my entire adult life, I
felt like I was living on barred time. I wasn't
planning on being a grandfather, but yet I'm here. So
it gives you a different point of view. I don't
feel like life was owed to me. I felt like
(07:20):
I was granted life that was beyond what I expected.
Speaker 2 (07:30):
I always wondered what was driving Todd?
Speaker 8 (07:33):
So you do have to appreciate it, and I do.
I do appreciate it. It's like, so what do you
do with it?
Speaker 1 (07:40):
I guess this was that he was compelled to do
something with the time he was given. He didn't just
help one family, he helped dozens, hundreds.
Speaker 8 (07:48):
And it was a strange niche with missing and unidentified.
You don't just choose that, it chooses you. And maybe
that's what's kept me here for so long.
Speaker 2 (07:57):
It just feels like Todd was born to do this
kind of to nestle into people's lives at their darkest points.
Speaker 8 (08:04):
I do make friends really quickly with people, and that's
just my nature. Some of my best friends are dead,
but it's okay. They were dead when I met him,
and it's like, why is that weird? And I don't
think that's inappropriate, not at all.
Speaker 2 (08:17):
I don't.
Speaker 8 (08:17):
I think it's absolutely necessary and matters of life and death,
it's absolutely necessary that somebody truly knows that you're going
to do everything you can to resolve it for them.
Just because somebody's unclaim doesn't mean they're unwanting.
Speaker 1 (08:31):
All this to say, when Todd died, I hope he'd
already meet peace with it.
Speaker 8 (08:36):
I think death is such a stigma because people it's
something you don't want to do. You know, It's like
nobody wants to die. You heard the saying everybody wants
to go to heaven, but nobody wants to die. It's
just like it's easy to just like, let's just forget
about that. Let's push it away. That's going to be
a long time from now. I don't want to deal
with it. It's only sad, it's only bad. Let's not
think about it. But it's just like it is a
part of life.
Speaker 1 (09:00):
In this video, Todd was in the car showing the
producers around Livingstone. He was wearing a basel cop and
he had a look on his face. I came to
know fairly well, it's kind of a lopsided grinnin like
he's already thinking five steps ahead of you. You've pulled
up to the cemetery where his brother and sister were buried.
Speaker 8 (09:16):
I think if you can prepare for it and accept it,
because you're not going to change it. I would love
to change it if I could. But I realized that
instead of avoiding it and pushing it off, evading it,
you got to think about what do I need to
do before I'm here? What do I need to do
to finish up some things in life before I lay
down here and go to sleep myself. I don't want
(09:38):
to have that damnation of wishing I had of So
that's why I want to do now while I have time,
because I know the day is coming I lay down here,
so I want to do it with a clean slate.
If I could say that, I'd like to do it
when I think you know what you don't know all
you can do, be proud of it, be happy so
(09:59):
you laid it when the work is done.
Speaker 1 (10:02):
In that interview, Todd talked about how he felt about dying,
but he didn't talk about everyone he'd leave behind, and
he didn't give us instructions on what we're supposed to
do without him. Lately, Todd's family's been wondering how to
live in a world without him. His son, Devin, who's
twenty two, saw his dad's work up close.
Speaker 9 (10:24):
He went to Kentucky one time I was with him
when he exhoomed a grave. I was there for a
part of that, and that was really really cool. He
was just in his element.
Speaker 2 (10:33):
Todd never shielded his kids from what he did for
a living.
Speaker 9 (10:36):
From a pretty young age, I knew exactly what it
was because I I had to know. I was always
nosy and it was never like a traumatizing thing. It
was always just like, oh wow, Okay, that's fascinating.
Speaker 1 (10:50):
Which meant that when the time came, Devin felt better
equipped to deal with grief than most.
Speaker 9 (10:55):
I mean, if there's anybody that's helped me realize that
it happens to everyone and all different kinds of ways,
it's him, and I don't know, I feel like it's
given me a better outlook on it.
Speaker 1 (11:07):
Not shielding his kids from dath meant Devin and his
brother Dylan grew up with a pretty unique understanding of it.
Speaker 2 (11:15):
They had to roll with Todd's morbid sense of humor.
Speaker 10 (11:17):
I remember specifically, growing up, we had this head in
the house. It was a skull and it was facially reconstructed.
Speaker 2 (11:26):
That's Todd's older son, Dylan, So.
Speaker 10 (11:29):
It looked like a woman's head. It had the eyes
and everything, and we had a small chihuahua and we
didn't want the dog getting into that and messing with it,
so at night that that head would have to be
in my room. He'd get up at like four o'clock
in the morning to go to work when he worked
at Hutchinson, the.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Factory down the street where Todd helped make air conditioning parts.
Speaker 10 (11:51):
Every night when I went to bed, I turned that
head away from me because it was creepy. And every
morning when I woke up, it was facing me. And
he never admitted to it. I was like nine years
old allways, stuff like that. Yeah, yeah, he never admitted
to it his whole life. But I mean I had
(12:11):
not Marrius about that thing.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
He was always causing trouble. He loved pranking people.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Todd and his cousin Tina were like brother and sister,
only seventeen months apart. Once, when they were adults, they
went to the grocery store while both of their kids
were at karate practice. They opened Todd's trunk in the
parking lot.
Speaker 7 (12:30):
Todd said, watch out for her and be careful with her,
and I'm like who. He points to a box and
it was a box of bones. And he was taken somewhere,
you know, And this wasn't uncommon for Todd to have
something like this in his car.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
Then later in the night, Tina opened the trunk again,
something fell.
Speaker 7 (12:47):
Out, and I was terrified to looke. I just covered
my eyes. I said, please tell me it wasn't her.
Please tell me it wasn't her. It was my twelve
packag of popes. But still I was terrified.
Speaker 2 (12:57):
He was always up to something.
Speaker 1 (12:59):
When Todd and I drove across North Carolina to meet
Steve's family over Memorial Day weekend in twenty twenty three,
he took every opportunity to tell me about his many
irons in the fire. Todd's ambitions went way beyond the
Department of Justice. He had ideas for at least two
other podcasts. There was his screenplay about the Bounty Hunter.
He officiated weddings, He dabbled in the wine business, and
(13:22):
he had a prolific side career in background acting, including
in a twenty twenty two movie called Santa boot Camp
starring Rita Moreno. Even with all of his projects, Todd
found the time to teach special needs classes at a
middle school. He taught at Livingston Academy, the very same
place he'd gone to school four decades ago.
Speaker 9 (13:41):
I think he left a legacy at the school too,
because a lot of those students with his special needs class,
he really changed their lives and impacted their families. And
I think that he'll be talked about for a long
time around there, especially with the sudden loss, like they
really were prepared to have him in the coming years.
Speaker 2 (14:01):
So were we.
Speaker 1 (14:03):
In the final months of production on this podcast, I
told Todd that some of my friends and co workers
had encouraged me to take some time off after the
show was released. I could rest a little recharge think
about the next project. Todd scoffed told me to keep going.
There were too many stories to tell. Honestly, I liked
hearing that from him. He had a motor he'd rest. Later,
(14:27):
his sons told me Todd was feeling really good about
his life, including this podcast coming out. He was looking
forward to the end of winter break, to getting back
to teaching the kids.
Speaker 9 (14:37):
And he said that he had a really good like
end of the year, and he just he hadn't been
this happy in a long time. He was about to
go back to work Wednesday would have been his first
day back. He was so excited.
Speaker 2 (14:50):
You'd think work was his life.
Speaker 1 (14:52):
But if you were here, he'd tell you the most
important things happened at home. He haspecially loved his grandkids,
Connor and River. He talked about them all they time.
Speaker 10 (15:01):
He loved my kids. He said, if we could just
have skipped the kids and went straight to the grandkids,
that he could not have been naster to my kids.
If that was the only thing he ever accomplished, was
making those two kids, those two grandkids possible, then that
would have been enough for him.
Speaker 1 (15:17):
Todd and his family all basically lived on one block.
Todd and his wife, Flri were in one house. Dylan
and his family were within eyesight. Todd's parents were there too,
even Todd's brother for the Matthews family taught us everywhere.
Speaker 10 (15:31):
When I walk out the door, I could almost see
him walking down the driveway to his house. I can't
look out the door without seeing some plant he's planted,
some tree planted.
Speaker 1 (15:42):
When Todd passed away, his family took on a unique
assignment writing letters to him.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
Then they buried them with him.
Speaker 10 (15:49):
My mother's letters in his left breast pocket, my letters
in his right breast pocket. My kid's letters are in
his hands. He would have loved those letters. Things we
all should have said to him every day, but you
don't get a chance until it's too late. Sometimes. If
he was miraculously able to come back and get possession
(16:10):
of those, that would be his most cherished things he
could possibly have in his life if.
Speaker 2 (16:15):
He did come back.
Speaker 1 (16:16):
A few of his relatives kind of joked about Todd's
return from the beyond. Family member Brent Right even made
a joke about it at the funeral.
Speaker 11 (16:24):
I'm still in somewhat of disbelief.
Speaker 12 (16:27):
I still think this might be one of Todd's pranks.
Speaker 4 (16:30):
Now.
Speaker 12 (16:30):
I'm just waiting for him to pop out in the
corner somewhere and say a.
Speaker 11 (16:33):
Hi, I got you.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
This was a part of Todd too.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
There was something about him that was a little supernatural,
like he had a direct line to the dead. When
Todd started telling me about this and I brushed it off,
but there was something about the way he said it,
I kind of just began believing it. Here's his son, Dylan.
Speaker 10 (16:54):
Off the record, of course, but I made a joke
to a lot of the family members. I think you
better stay away from Uija board for a while because
your house will be possessed with the spirit of Todd. Well,
you can't. I don't mind. He would enjoy that joke.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
I think Todd had a sense of humor about death
and the afterlife.
Speaker 10 (17:11):
My mom even said she's like, I'll know if it's
possible to come back, because she said, if anybody's coming back,
he's coming back. He always said he would too. He's like,
I'll haunt her. But you're just joking, you know, But
just joking.
Speaker 1 (17:28):
He's not really talking about a ghost hiding under a
white sheet. Todd's beliefs I think were really more spiritual.
He talked about being on one side of the veil
that separated life and death. The way Todd talked about it,
that veil was more sure for him than for most.
Speaker 9 (17:45):
I can kind of feel his presence sometimes, Like when
I'm thinking about him, I'm just like, like, this is weird.
Like I can feel that you're here, but I can't
see that you're here. It's just crazy.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
I like to think he's right.
Speaker 1 (17:57):
I hope he had a way to see the hundreds
of people who showed up for him in his funeral.
I think he'd be proud of the way his son
summoned the courage to be interviewed on maybe the hardest
day of their lives. I think he'd be thrilled to
see the release of this podcast, a project he'd been
ostensibly working on for twenty years. But it really all
started with Tent Girl. This is Rosemary Westbrook again, Tent
(18:18):
Girl's sister.
Speaker 6 (18:20):
There is nothing. I don't think that anybody could ever
match what he has done. And if it wasn't for
Tod being so damn persistent, we'd still not know where
she was. So what is Todd mean to us?
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Everything?
Speaker 6 (18:38):
And who's to say that he might leave a little
tidbit of information here, little clues you don't know that
you know. Do I believe in God?
Speaker 3 (18:48):
Yes?
Speaker 11 (18:48):
I do.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Do I believe in Todd? Yes? I do.
Speaker 11 (18:54):
Hey Steve, it's Kate, Hey Kate. How are you?
Speaker 3 (18:58):
I'm good?
Speaker 8 (18:58):
How about you?
Speaker 1 (19:00):
The last we'd heard from Steve, he'd been surprised by
his biological mom, Sandy, at a hotel room in North Carolina.
Todd wanted Steve to find peace, and he thought that
meeting his.
Speaker 2 (19:09):
Birth mom would help that along.
Speaker 1 (19:11):
But after that day, Todd came to realize that Steve
deserved a head's up. He should have had the chance
to decide whether it was time to meet his biological
mom or not. The surprise reunion caused a bit of
a break in Steven Todd's relationship. I suspected Steve had
some complicated feelings about Todd. The last time he saw
Todd was in that hotel room last August. He was
(19:32):
shocked by Todd's death just five months later in early January.
Speaker 11 (19:36):
It was a lot of a mixed emotions because I
don't know, I didn't get to tell him marry Christmas,
because we it was kind of weird between us, just
because we had met. And he brought my mom there.
Speaker 4 (19:48):
You know.
Speaker 11 (19:49):
I feel bad about that, I really do, because he
didn't tell me that he was bringing my mom at
the motel room.
Speaker 12 (19:56):
He sprang it all on him.
Speaker 2 (19:58):
That's Steve's girlfriend, Janette.
Speaker 12 (20:00):
He brung it on Steve and that was just not
what he wanted and how it was all handled was wrong,
and like that. I feel like they did it without
me and Steve's mom there on purpose because they knew
how he felt and Steve wasn't going to stand up
(20:20):
for himself, and so there was a little tension.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I guess no one expected this to be the last
conversation between the men. Todd said to himself in the
last episode. He expected that in a few years they'd
reconnect and continued on the path together.
Speaker 11 (20:37):
I wish I had told you to marry Chris.
Speaker 12 (20:40):
Steve had just beat himself up over that because he
didn't reach out Christmas, and like, you don't think that
you're not going to be able to like fix it,
and so you know, Steve struggled with that a little bit,
because you fight and then you fix it, and like
they didn't have time to fix it.
Speaker 2 (21:01):
Steve said that even when they were distant, he didn't
forget how Todd got into his life in the first place.
Speaker 11 (21:08):
I didn't learn respect for him, not at all. I
just think.
Speaker 12 (21:14):
It just could have handled it could have been handled differently. Well,
that doesn't change how Steve felt about.
Speaker 11 (21:20):
I mean, I love Todd, yeah.
Speaker 12 (21:21):
Absolutely, I mean it was just like a normal family fuss.
Speaker 11 (21:26):
He felt like we were brothers. Yeah, And he told
me that numerous times.
Speaker 1 (21:31):
I'd never heard this from Steve, that the brotherhood may
have felt reciprocal to him too. All along, Steve had
been getting to know his biological family. He never knew
along the way he came Todd too.
Speaker 11 (21:47):
But he was one of the greatest people I've ever
known in my life.
Speaker 12 (21:50):
Yeah, for sure.
Speaker 11 (21:51):
Oh it was great. Man. He came to bat for
me when nobody else came to bat, including the FBI,
the police, just anybody. I mean, he believed my story.
He was the only one before anybody ever believed it.
Speaker 12 (22:09):
And if you could have heard see when he called me,
because he's like he believes me, like he's gonna help us.
He believed me. It was just insane. Yeah, nobody believed us.
Speaker 6 (22:20):
Man.
Speaker 11 (22:21):
If it wouldn't have been for him, I wouldn't even
be where I'm at right now. I would still be
a missing person.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Steve says he's still talking to his sisters.
Speaker 11 (22:31):
I love my sisters that I'm just the same dude
I was. I had a good childhood with my mom.
I'm just a normal guy with just a fucked up story.
Speaker 13 (22:46):
Thanks, thanks, going, Okay it is Yes, it was rust
for a little bit, but that was in rough Like
people don't find things out like this about themselves.
Speaker 1 (22:59):
But you.
Speaker 13 (23:01):
What good.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Then Steve said something that knocked the wind out.
Speaker 11 (23:06):
Of me and I just wondered, who's gonna take his place? Oh,
I mean, I'm not the smartest man in the world computers,
but I would like to do that too. Really, I mean,
if I could change somebody's life like he changed mind, man,
that would be good for me.
Speaker 1 (23:28):
Steve wants to volunteer with the Doe Network, the online
platform Todd started at the beginning of his career. I
can't think of anything more meaningful. Todd and his wife
Lori had been married for thirty six years. You met
Laurie in episode one. Todd always talked about the two
like they were something even more than soulmates, that they
were meant to be together. Laurie's dad was the one
(23:51):
who found ten Girl, so in a way, the two
were intertwined.
Speaker 3 (23:54):
Early on, he loved to make people lay off. The
biggest thing he did is he liked to scare you.
You could jump out anywhere, you could come out of
the bathroom, out of the hallway, wherever he would jump
out and scare again. He would have the biggest laugh.
But we would always get mad, because you know, you
don't like being scared.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
But I got to work. I was doing him the
same way, and he didn't like it as well either.
Speaker 1 (24:15):
Laurie also told me that Todd loved being outside. He'd
spend hours out there in silence, just thinking. He left
to have his hands in the dirt planting something new.
Speaker 4 (24:24):
He planted a tree every year. He planted a tree
for our anniversary.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
He planned a tree for each kids a birth date,
like he would plant a tree on the day they
were born. He planted a tree on her grand babies birthdays.
Speaker 1 (24:41):
Despite his money, projects and interests, Todd always made time
for his family. He and Laurie would go out to
dinner or go shopping. He met her dinner every single night.
Speaker 3 (24:51):
Family meant everything to Todd. He always wanted us to
get together. He always wanted to have cookouts, Thanksgiving, Christmas.
We had always had to do things together.
Speaker 2 (25:00):
Why do you think that was what about him wanted that.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
I think it had something to do with maybe his
brother and sister passing at an early age. He just
always wanted everybody to be together, be happy.
Speaker 1 (25:11):
I asked Laurie about what Devin had said about Todd
being so satisfied. In the last days of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 3 (25:18):
We spent the Saturday night with my family and then
we went to a New Year's Eve party, and then
we had New Year's Day and then the day after
and we was just preparing for work and we.
Speaker 4 (25:27):
Just we just got along. We were happy.
Speaker 3 (25:29):
Just we did everything together and we talked about stuff
and just I don't know.
Speaker 4 (25:34):
He just said, Laurie, I did the best three days.
He was just like, I finally got where I wanted
to be.
Speaker 1 (25:40):
They're incredibly close. But Todd kept a lot of his
work to himself.
Speaker 4 (25:44):
I think he hid a lot of his stress.
Speaker 3 (25:46):
I think he stayed up many nights, tortured over you know,
some of the cases that he worked on, you know,
like the Steve Patterson case. You know, it did bother him.
He really wanted to solve that case.
Speaker 2 (25:58):
For her part, Laurie didn't give Tod's work too much.
Speaker 4 (26:00):
Thought.
Speaker 3 (26:01):
I wasn't interested in his work because I lived it,
so it wasn't enjoyable for me.
Speaker 4 (26:05):
But now I realize I'm going to have to live it.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Why do you feel like you have to do it?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
I would love to see his work continue, and I
don't know who else could do it.
Speaker 1 (26:18):
Now, she's trying to learn how the dough network works
so she can carry on the torch and carry on
Todd's legacy of reuniting these families. Maybe she can help
bring others peace.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
I'm trying to do some research, trying to look for
some missing people that hopefully I can take over and
help him and just continue his work. My goal is
to keep the donutwork going and just trying to continue
what he wanted.
Speaker 1 (26:45):
What's it been like to learn that what's involved.
Speaker 3 (26:49):
It's a lot harder than I thought it said. It's
a chorer trying to get through everything. And the enormity
of how many people are actually missing or unidentified. I
did not realize that so many people are struggling and
suffering looking for their families, and all of these missing
people and all the unidentified. There is people looking for them.
(27:09):
There has to be, So it's just flowing my mind
how many people it really is.
Speaker 2 (27:17):
I told her host Steve wanted to help out too.
Speaker 3 (27:20):
I mean, we'll accept any volunteer. I mean, the Do'
network is a family of volunteers. You know, if he
wants to volunteer, we'd be more than happy to have him.
We can set him up. Maybe he can one day
thought a missing person case.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
It's given Laurie a deeper appreciation for her husband's work.
Speaker 3 (27:36):
He showed me what it was like to have an
impact on people in the world. He showed me how
he was a great teacher. He showed me that you
can get places by working.
Speaker 4 (27:54):
I do think that Tod did make me a better person.
Speaker 1 (28:02):
In the months before he died, Todd and Laurie would
take walks together at night and they'd listen to early
mixes of this podcast. Laurie would always want Todd to
pause the podcast so she could ask questions, why did
you say that?
Speaker 3 (28:15):
Because you know, he just didn't discuss it with me,
because he just didn't feel like I was interested in
his work, which you know, I wish now that i'd
show more than I was.
Speaker 4 (28:25):
But I was always proud of him.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Laurie's been listening to this podcast as it comes out,
but with every week that goes by, there are fewer
episodes to listen to.
Speaker 3 (28:36):
It's hard to listen to them. But it does give
me peace because I know that's what he wanted. The
podcast is very comforting and it's his legacy. It's what
he wanted to do. It made him happy, and I
can hear his voice even after he's gone. I'm just
so glad he got the finish shit too.
Speaker 4 (28:53):
It's just perfect coming.
Speaker 3 (28:55):
I know, I know, maybe that was his goal in life.
Speaker 4 (28:58):
Maybe that's what he was supposed to do. Finished the podcast.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
Yes, yeah, And in a way, you're kind of finishing
it for him because this will be the last episode.
Speaker 4 (29:07):
Yes, that's true. That's true. It's pretty special and I
will love him forever.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
If you'd like to know more about do network or donate,
visit donetwork dot org.
Speaker 9 (29:29):
Hello.
Speaker 8 (29:30):
John Doe is and original productions by Revelations Entertainment in
association with First and Last Productions from Revelations. Our executive
producers are Morgan Freeman and James Younger. From First to Last,
Lindsay Moreno is the executive producer. Our producing partner is
Neo on Hume Media. It was written and produced by
Kate Michigan. Our editor is Katherine Saint Louis. She is
(29:51):
also ne On Home Media's executive editor. Our executive producer
is Sharah Morris. Our development producer is Ian Lindsay. Our
associate produce sir is Rufaro Faith Masarua. Sound design and
mixing by Scott Summerville. Theme and original music composed by
Jesse Pearlstein. Additional music came from Epidemic Sound and Blue
Dot Sessions. Bendall Faulton is our fact checker. Our production
(30:14):
manager is Samantha Allison from my Heart Media. Dylan Fagan
is our executive producer. Special thanks to Adelia Ruben at
Nie on Hum and Carrie Lieberman and Will Pearson at iHeartMedia.
I'm Todd Matthews. You can learn more about name us
at NamUs dot com. The number for the National Center
for Missing Exploited Children's Call Center is one eight hundred
the loss that's one eight hundred eight four three five
(30:38):
six seven eight. The National Sexual Assault Hotline from the
Rate Abuse and Incest National Network is one eight hundred
sixty five six four six seven three.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
We have two more bonus episodes for you starting next week.
Next episode, we talk to an expert about late discoverers
adoptees like Steve Patterson, who discovered late in life that
they were adopted to impact that house on their lives.
Speaker 2 (31:01):
Join us.
Speaker 8 (31:03):
Okay, guys, this is the end of the show. If
you didn't like it, don't do anything. But if you
did like it, you make sure that you rate, and
review the show. It helps more people to find it
and hear this wonderful story. Thanks again for listening.
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