This past year marked the 75th Anniversary of the Actors Studio, the nonprofit organization that has shared “truth in acting” with decades of film, television and theater professionals. This episode is the next in our series celebrating some of those responsible for the studio’s success. Guests Roberta and Katherine Wallach are the daughters of stage and screen stars Anne Jackson and Eli Wallach. Jackson and Wallach met during a 1946 production of the Tennessee Williams’ play, “This Property Is Condemned.” They became early members of the Actors Studio and would go on to perform together in film, tv and theater for decades. Roberta and Katherine are actors in their own right, members of the studio, and sit on its Board of Directors. Katherine Wallach has appeared in “Goodfellas,” “The King of Comedy” and “Gangs of New York” and also uses her creative talents as a jewelry designer. Roberta Wallach is a Drama-Desk nominee and began her film career while still in high school. The siblings share what it was like growing up around acting royalty, their father’s perspective on them going into the family business and their thoughts on their parents' enduring legacy.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. Throughout movie history, there have been
many talented couples famous for acting together on screen Bogie
and Bacall, Newman and Woodward, Burton and Taylor, but one
couple occupies a singular place in the show business pantheon.
(00:27):
Eli Wallack and Anne Jackson. The couple met during a
nineteen forty six production of Tennessee Williams This Property Is Condemned,
and went on to star together on and off Broadway.
Eli Wallack's legendary movie career includes films like The Good,
The Bad and the Ugly, The Misfits, and The Godfather
(00:50):
Part Three. Anne Jackson can be found in movies like
Lovers and Other Strangers and The Shining. They were also
early members of the famed Actors Studio. As part of
our ongoing series to commemorate the seventy fifth anniversary of
the Actor's Studio, we are celebrating those responsible for its success,
(01:13):
which includes Jackson and Wallack. My guests today are two
of this illustrious acting couple's children, Roberta and Katherine Wallack.
The Wallack sisters grew up surrounded by theatre royalty, Alpaccino, Hume,
Cronen actors, studio director Lee Strasburg. Even their babysitter was famous.
(01:35):
Her name is Marilyn Monroe. The siblings would go on
to become actors in their own right, members of the studio,
and eventually sit on its Board of Directors. Later in
the episode, I'll speak to Drama Desk nominee Roberta. Wallack,
But first, Katherine Wallack is known for her numerous theater
(01:55):
credits and appearances in Scorsese films like Goodfellas, The King
of Comedy, and Gangs of New York. But the creativity
gene doesn't stop there. She's also a jewelry designer. Since
Wallach was raised in such an abundantly artistic household, I
wanted to know what life was like at home behind
(02:16):
the scenes for her mother.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It was tough for her because right off the bat
he wanted to be the show stopper.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
She was offered a role as I forgot the wife's
name in The Honeymooners, Audrey Meadows, that's right, you know
that story, And she ended up giving it up so
she could kind of be a mother and an actor
in New York, so she kind of gave up this
huge opportunity to be with Jackie Gleason and Hrywood. Anyway,
the way that it worked is that we had one apartment,
(02:47):
went to the same school, except for two years we.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Lived in London.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
We had a nanny and that was the saving grace
of both my parents and their occupation. Why London, because
they did a Maurice ciscal play called Love there and
we ended up getting put into taken out of ethical
culture on Central Park West and we got put into
this school that was the absolute polar opposite, with uniforms
(03:15):
and curtsying and standing up to know your times tables
and it was extremely cruel in London, yes, and closed
for cruelty to children eventually. Oh yeah. So we lived
in England for two years. But other than that same apartment,
my entire life West Side eighty first and Riverside, same school.
You know, very dad was like military in his behavior.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But does she do less with her career because she's
a mom?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
No, I don't think so, No, really no, I mean
she didn't go into film as much, but she worked
just as hard at.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Theater and they did a lot of theater together, right.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That was kind of their you know, calling card was
They used to joke about how they got paid to fight.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Eight shows weak.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
No, she didn't, and she wrote a book.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
She was writing another book, as you know, later in life,
which never got finished, sadly, which was about being a mother,
an actress, and a wife actually, And I would love
to read those notes there at the Harry Ransom Center
right now.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
When he did, he travel a lot, He was gone
a lot working, He was gone a lot, and you
didn't go with him when.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
We could in the summers you could, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
During the school year, your mother wanted you to have
a normal life, that's right. And he would leave and
which she would work while.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
He was gone sometimes sometimes, but no, for the most part,
she was hanging with us, or she would go and
hang with him, and we would be home with the
with Nelly, who's a gap toothed woman from North Carolina,
and I thought she was my mother.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I have this very romanticized view of your parents right
where they're sitting there at the dinner table and you're there,
the two girls are there, your brother and family, friends
and associates, and your father's talking all about what it
was like shooting with O'Toole and what it was, and
your mother's talking about shooting with Like did they regale
you with stories of show business or they didn't give
(05:04):
a shit about that.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Now when their friends were over, they did, they did.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, but for.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
The most part, I mean it was kind of strict
around the table in what way. Well, dad was kind
of strict, you know till I was eighteen. I kind
of put him in his place once, but you know,
we had table manners and had to raise your hand.
Can I be excused? I mean stuff that you do
not see no nowadays, you know what I'm saying. And
recently a friend from high school said, oh, yeah, I
was afraid to go to your house.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, you know, because my dad was like a dinner
at our house resembles a production of One Flew Over
the Cuckoo's Nets. Yeah, yeah, my dinner at my house
is very different.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, we had also screaming and get up and slam
a door, and we're just like, hey, you know, life
is normal. I mean theatrics going on, my mother crying,
no tears coming down, you know, and like door slam
one time she slammed, he slammed himself in the bedroom
and then it got locked and he couldn't get out,
and it gave him a bull in there, and so she
went and got the super and when they finally got about,
(05:58):
he went to like a movie they wanted sea together
and just slammed the door at the front door of
the apartment like I'm out of here, you know, fuck you.
But he had a really bad temperament.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
He did. Oh really he did.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
He would also like show up at the door wearing
a wig and an apron. I mean he was crazy,
you know, he was great. He was the best, a
man of my dream. Seriously, I loved my dad more
than anything.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Did he come from a family where show business was
in his family?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
No, they came from Poland full on. They owned a
candy store in Brooklyn, had no money, all of them
very easy, yes, his family, very easy, low key people.
They all went off to become teachers, his sisters and brothers.
His brother Sam was my mother's high school teacher.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
And what was the thing in him coming from a
certain kind of family with their passions and stuff and
their goals. What do you think it was that launched
him into show business?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think from what my memory brings me is he
they grew up like with one of those I forgot
what they call them in the candy store where the
pictures flip. You put a coin in and it's like
a little movie, right, And I think because his dad
was pretty strict abe, you know, Polish, very whatever, Jewish school,
old school, he would run away sometimes from school and
(07:11):
like put money from the register in this little movie
thing and just watch these movies over and over and
it was his.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Escape, I guess fantasy.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah. Now you're a member of the studio. Your sister's
a member of the studio. You're both on the board
of directors of the studio. And what's your recollection of that,
meaning their respective participation in the studio. Your mother was
a member as well. Yes, So do you have any
recollection of Lee and what Lee was to your dad
(07:40):
and your mom?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I do.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I was pretty young.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm not that much younger, Birti's three years older than me,
but and she was a student of Lee's. I was not,
but I remember we used to go at a very
young age. We used to go to Lee's house for
passover and there'd be like this really cute guy leaning
against a bookcase and that was alphag No or you know,
I didn't know. I thought he was my grandfather. I
didn't get it. I didn't know who he was. Roberta's
(08:05):
middle name is Lee, so I'm like, oh, it's grand
that I got another grandfather, because I only met one grandparent.
So we would go there and we would look for
the matza, and then he would give us a silver
dollar if you found the Matzeigman. It was a very
big celebration with all these people and very kind of
happy Jewish situation that I really didn't understand that well.
(08:25):
And then my other memories were at the studio itself
watching Lee moderate and thinking, you know, he had an
egg timer. For example, Frances Fisher would be up there
and she'd take her shirt off and he'd be like, oh,
that was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Dear, that was wonderful.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I was like, Wow, you know, this is the big
guy behind the Wizard of Oz, behind the curtain.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And you didn't get it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
No, I didn't get it.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
He seemed charming.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I liked him.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
He was an old dude and he had once in
a while he had some cool shit to say.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
But I was like, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
You know whereas like Hume Cronin, Jessica Tandy, these people
being around you know, George c. Scott and Colleen and
those people, or Paul and Joann, those people had vibes,
you know what I'm saying. Being around those kind of
friends or what would you call them, colleagues, colleagues, those people,
(09:17):
I would feel the kind of gig young I remember,
you know, I remember some people that really impressed me.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Now, how would you say, because obviously you have this
very serious business making jewelry, and you've been doing it
for quite a while successfully, and I'm wondering was that
something that you discovered, as many of us discovered, something
to fill in those gaps of the average acting career
(09:44):
where you're not always working as much as you want to.
You sit there, go I got to do something.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I would say yes, except for that, I'm one of
those people that has to express myself artistically. I did
all the flowers for all the weddings of my nephews,
I designed my flowers, I catered for years, I tap danced,
I was in a band. I mean, I have to
constantly express So the thing that happened with the jewelry
was when I was a kid. We went down to
(10:08):
visit a friend of my dad's who is a not
a friend relative, who had a bead factory on thirty
eighth Street, and they let me go rampant in the
basement and I went insane, and I was starting a
string beads. And so from a very young age. It's
also a family business. There's Wallack jewelry. I mean, it's like,
that's not mine, you.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Know, So it was just it's just a way of
which I.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Mean, there's pictures of me at six selling in the
Hamptons on a towel in front of our house, you know.
And but I guess at thirty, really I'm sixty almost five,
so at thirty as.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
One, so the creative impulse to make the jewelry superseded
way before acting career.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean I got my SAG card when I
was seven in a film with my parents, which one
Murray Ciskell Tiger makes out.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
It was the typeist in the Tiger movie.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Version, right, And then you know I was not born
to be an actress. My sister, I think felt that way.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
How would you describe your path as an actress?
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Oh, I kind of was like, well, I guess it's
in my bone.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, I should check it out.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I do things in that way, you know, which
I guess is annoying to some people. But I once
I for example, we were in Diary Van Frank and
I said, look, don't put me in this if I suck,
you know. The director said, I'm not putting you in
if you suck. So I think I was smoking pot
in the attic between acts and the girl who is
my sister's understudy, said, Okay, do you really want to
(11:32):
do this? Do you really want to be an actress?
I said, oh, yes, definitely. It was so high, and
so she took me and she called Bill Esper and
said that said, I'm enrolling you, and you know, I'm
getting you into this class. And for two years I
studied Sandy Meisner technique with Bill Asper, and you know
it went from there. I moved to Hollywood for four
or five years and ended up catering vegan food to
(11:52):
hippies on Melrose and you know, whatever the hell I
was doing feeding meters and I did some really bad
TV shows the thing in my gap and curled hair
and fake tits, and I.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Said, no, this is not right. Why are they making
me look like everybody else?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
So they came back to New York and I did
some plays and started kind of that's when I got
into the studio. I think in nine and eighty nine
or eighty five or something, I became a member, and
you know, just kind.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Of like took it easy because it's a hard belise.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Knowing as you did that you had your cynicism about
Strasburg himself. What becomes the lure of the studio? Why
do you want to go to the studio?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think
it's just the feeling of that it meant so much
to my folks and had so much to do with
their foundation and their sanctuary, and so I thought, Okay,
I'm going to see what this is all about. And
even in the beginning, when I was in my twenties
and I'm like, I'm just doing some scenes with people
(12:54):
that were doing some stuff.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know? But then again, there is there's a way
that the work is done there that is like no
other place on the earth. When it works, when it
works and when to something yes, and when people are
brave enough literally brave enough to go there and not
get up there and do what they're good at. You know,
I'm going up tomorrow with one day notice, and I
(13:19):
Am not going to do what I'm good at. My
instinct is to get up there and you know, do
my thing, you know, my shtick. But I wrote bow
back actually and said no.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
No.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He said, thank you so much. You know, you're so brave.
I said, either brave or crazy. I said, I'm going
there because I want to learn. I never want to
stop learning. And that's what my folks taught me. Is
like even into the nineties, you know, like before he
really went into dementia land, you know, he was still
trying to work and learn and you know, pitch himself.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
To directors and shit.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He famously wrote a letter to Scorsese saying I want
to be in one of your films, and Scorsese apparently
thought it was a lie until he saw that he
mentioned Cis Corman, so he realized, oh, you know, they
maybe this is really like maybe in Stationary, you know
what I mean. Like he really wrote a letter to
him saying, one of my bucket list things is I
want to work with you.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Actor's studio member Catherine Wallack. If you love conversations about
the craft of acting, be sure to check out my
episode with another Actor's Studio board member, the late Patricia Bosworth.
Do you speak to Brando much for the book?
Speaker 5 (14:27):
No, I didn't speak to him at all. I only
met him once at the Actor's Studio. I called him
on the phone. He wanted to talk to me, originally
because he wanted to talk about Kazan, and he actually
wrote me a letter that he would talk to me,
but then he decided not to and I really became
so frustrated. I kept calling him and calling, and finally
somebody said, why don't you call his dog.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Alec.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
I did listen to this. I faxed, dear Fido, I
want to speak to your master. Within seconds, the facts
came back saying my master does not want to talk
to you, and signed with two paw prints. This was
Brando answering me.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Hear more of my conversation with Patricia Bosworth at Here'sthething
dot Org. After the break, Katherine Wallack tells us how
the Actor's Studio has changed in her lifetime, and later
Roberta Wallack shares her experience starring alongside Joanne Woodward and
being directed by none other than Paul Newman. While still
(15:31):
in high school. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Here's the Thing. Actors Studio board member Katherine Wallack made
her film debut at age six. She would go on
(15:54):
to perform and stand out plays like The Beauty Queen
of Lennon, The Walls of the Torreats, and Awake and Sing.
I was curious what life in the theater was like
coming up as a child of one of America's great
acting dynasties.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, we acted a lot together, which was such a joy,
all four of us. We did The Flowering Peach directed
by Bobby Lewis. We did a tour directed of Wilson,
The Toyers directed by Brian Murray who was an actor,
he wasn't a director at the time. We did dire
Van Frank directed by Marty Freed. So you know, we
we would like kind of go the Flying Walendos, would.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Like go on the road.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
It was awesome and I think they pretty much took
me often to get me away from my.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
New York pot smoking ways. You know, we had.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Yeah, I was Yeah, were you the troubled child?
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I don't know how you work in the theater were
smoking pot. I did the the Orton play Loot. It
was my Broadway debut, as they say, and I did
the play with Joe Mahara and Jelcob Ivanic and so
we want to make her and Charlie Keating played the husband,
and my dressing room was above his, and during the half,
Charlie Keating would smoke an enormous joint and the smoke
(17:09):
would go up out his window, up the alleyway and
go in my window of my room. I could smell
the wheel. Because his character was supposed to make an
entrance disheveled having been in a car crash, and he
enters disheveled in a mess and chaotic and shop. He
would smoke pot in his room and then they would
we would do the second half, and he'd walk out
(17:31):
and go, oh my god, he awful action on the road.
And he was like wasted, And I thought, how the
fuck do you act waste?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I can't I mean except for like when we were
in Dire around Frank and Tony Holland would say, bring
on the dancing girls. When the Nazis would come and
bang the door down, I mean, and I'm trying not
to laugh, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Anyway, after that, I swiftly.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Got my ass to class and stop smoking about I
can't even smell it now, funny, really like, I really
don't like the smell of it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Do you hate it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Kind of smoke? Since I'm thirty?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
What's the last job you did? What's the last show
you did?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I did two films during COVID that have now been
written in from shorts to feature, and they kept me
in my role. So we're about to shoot the you are, Yeah,
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Do you still like what you're feeling about acting now?
How do you you still enjoy it?
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I absolutely love doing it?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You do? Yeah? You're in and out of the studio
when you're younger, and your parents, of course are members
of the studio. How's it changed in your leftome.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, back in those days, there was working working actors,
and there was not the school filtering students coming in there.
Weren't you know, this kind of influx of all different
levels of.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
No relationship with the MFA program.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right, So there was like a very high standard. There
was also kind of a looser attitude about when you
could rehearse and go in. We all had keys. You
could spend the night there if you stuck, which I
have many times. You know, there was a very different
kind of vibe. And I was the little one, you know,
I was one of the few younger ones at the.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Bohemian, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
And I took me three times to get in, and
by the time I got in, I did Sidney Kingsley's
dead End, you know. And by the time I got
in they called me to tell me. I was like,
oh yeah, okay, fine and click. Because they put me
through some major hoops to become a member, which was fine.
I didn't want any special treatment. I get actually offended
when during moderation in a scene where, you know, during session,
(19:31):
people bring up my parents and I'm like, why.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Didn't you bring up Joe's parents? Huh? You know, I mean,
could you just get me break? Now?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You really have to find that underlying thread, You really
have to find that kind of old school connection because
there's so many different energies going on there now. But
you know, people that diss it and don't come and
I just say, you know, it is what you make it,
and I don't have a huge career right now, so
it is my way of expressing, being able to express
(19:58):
on the stage, and I cherish that. I mean, I'm
really lucky, you know. I see movies and plays the
other day everybody stands up and yells bravo. My father
used to get so pissed when people stand up and
yell bravo just because they saw play.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's funny how your dad, who I worship, you know,
the mark of a truly great film actor, to me
is just the indelibility of these lines of theirs. Your
father comes from a school, which I don't think he
would claim to be a member of this school, but
I kind of recognize a school of people which is
just be the best thing in the movie. Doesn't matter
(20:34):
how big your part is, just be memorable in the
movie of your truthfulness. Your parents' legacy, what would you
hope their legacy.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Is that they were so in love with each other
and that they worked together so well. The respect I mean,
my father. If my mother said this was an umbrella,
my father would say, your mother said, that's an umbrella.
That's an umbrella. You know, devotion, devotion, artistic respect, and love.
I mean that that would be you know what I
(21:04):
would say, And they they really did their best at
raising as normal if you could call us that healthy
non involved in the hole. You know, they kept us accountable.
And they also at the same time, like Dad was
more proud of me making you know, ninety grand as
a rep for an eyework company than he was if
I was acting. Absolutely, he was like so much more
(21:25):
proud of it. But yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It was like interesting you mentioned that the legacy is
their relationship.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I think it is. That's amazing because nowadays, like
you know, I mean, there were so few of them
that that work together as much as my folks. They
really did, you know, always, especially you don't see it now,
And as they got older, you know, they would write,
they would do poetry performances and all sorts of churches
and smaller theaters around New York. My father did student films.
(21:53):
He and I worked together at the studio. We did
Moon for the Misbegotten. I played Josie. Here he comes
walking down the aisle. I'm like, that's Eli Wallack walking
gumme oile.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
It was unbelievable, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
After by the way, we stopped and Stephen Lang was
the moderator, and Dad said, hey, can we try it again?
And then he goes, yeah, go ahead, and we did
it again with the notes they gave us.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Can we do it again? He was like eighty something,
you know, like that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Actress and designer Catherine Wallack my next guest. Roberta Wallack
is known for her work on stage and screen, including
her drama Desk nominated performance in The Model Apartments. She
made her film debut while still in high school in
the Effect of Gamma rays on Man in the Moon Maragos.
(22:45):
Since Anne Jackson and Eli Wallack were so prolific throughout
Roberta's childhood, I wanted to know how her parents balanced
work with raising their children.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
Dad was gone much more so than mom, and they
had an agreement basically to try and make sure as
often as possible that they were not both gone at
the same time, or if they were very often we
would go with them. But she was around a lot.
And also back then, when for instance, Off Broadway was
(23:18):
still a fairly new thing happening in New York City,
they did a lot of theater a lot, and the
curtains were later they were eight o'clock, right, So we
would all sit down to dinner at six eat dinner.
I remember Mom always had to go take a nap.
She would take a nap and then they would go
off to the theater. But then whenever there was free time.
(23:42):
She was a very hands on mom. I mean, I'm
marvel at the stuff she was able to balance. We
had help, fabulous help, Catherine. I always refer to our
Nelly as our black mother, right, you know, who was
amazing and came to work for us when I was
only a couple of months old and she was very close.
She really became, I am a family member. But the
(24:02):
fact that she was able to balance being a wife,
having the career that she had, which was pretty big,
and to be mom to us was amazing. I mean,
I have memories of her around the holidays, taking us
always shopping to get new outfits and to see Santa
Claus at Bonwood Teller's or whatever, Lord and Taylor's and
(24:24):
Kath and I, my sister and I. Easter time, we
always were outfitted in great little outfits to go to
the Easter parade.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
They were very both of them.
Speaker 7 (24:32):
Actually, you know, when Dad was around, I realized fairly
young that it was quality time versus quantity time. And
I remember talking briefly to Kate Winslet about it, who
was very concerned about being a mother, a working mother,
and I said to her, I get that, and I'm
not going to lie to you. Could be some therapy
builds down the line, abandonment stuff. But kids, I think,
(24:56):
very early on, realize and recognize that when their parents
really love what they do, especially when it's something like acting,
which every kid pretty much every kid wants to do
all the time. Anyway, we give them a pass. We
understand what that sensation is. I mean, I decided absolutely
for sure I was going to be an actor at
(25:16):
age six. I was taken on a date with Patty
Tchaiyevsky's son Danny. We were both in school together. We
went to see Oliver on Broadway six when I was six,
and I remember sitting there and before that time, I
kept thinking, well, do I want to be a.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Ballerina or a nurse?
Speaker 7 (25:34):
A ballerina or a nurse, And then I went when
I sat in that theater, I realized, oh, no, I
want to be an actor, because then I can be
a ballerina and a nurse, and I can also play
a boy if I want to. I could be a
boy nurse or a boy ballerina. I could be anything.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Now, your sister mentioned how your dad was a pretty
no nonsense guy when you was home. Yeah, there was
a lot of rules and manners and have you asked
to be excused from the table.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
Well, he had been in the military, okay for way
too long. And his estimation because his birthday was December seventh,
Pearl Harbor Day, so he was already in the army
and it was happy birthday. Here's another three years or whatever.
You're stuck here. So yeah, he was very militant about time.
If you were four minutes early, that was considered late,
and he would pout for and not speak to you
(26:26):
for about two hours. To this day, sometimes I'm if
I'm walking in my apartment without my barefoot, I can
hear my father's voice saying.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I'll find you put your slippers on. Where are your slippers?
Speaker 7 (26:38):
You know, there were certain things that they were strict about,
but in retrospect, I think it was kind of great
because it gave us all a sense of ethics, a
sense a work ethic, a discipline that you know we
needed so consideration.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yeah, when did you.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
First become aware of the studio yourself? Was it through
your parents and going there with that?
Speaker 7 (27:00):
I have an effective memory, a vague one of an
older version of the studio of walking between these seats
on a kind of rake. That's all I can remember
about that. But no, my earliest memories of the studio
are really more about Lee himself, about Strasburg. I think
I mentioned to my middle name is Lee, after Lee,
(27:22):
your sister, right, So he was for me a sort
of grandpa figure. But when it came to the work itself,
then we had a much more slightly reserved and what
I would call more of a professional relationship, even though
there was tremendous love and fondness there. So those are
my earliest memories. I mean, I got into the studio
(27:44):
in nineteen eighty, but I did my first feature that
Paul Newman directed when I was sixteen.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
I was still in high.
Speaker 7 (27:53):
School, The Effect of Gamma, Right, So I was still
in high school with Joanne.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
What was that extraordinary? Extraordinary?
Speaker 7 (28:01):
I mean I have yet to have an experience even
remotely like it, I'm afraid, but whatever, it was extraordinary
because from the moment of the audition. And fortunately, when
I first auditioned, I think Sis Corman actually got me
the audition. When I got in there, Paul didn't know
who I was, who my parents were, and it wasn't
until the very end that the casting director said something like,
(28:25):
we'll say hi to your parents, and he went, who
are your parents? And then I told him And then
he told me the most hilarious thing I thought, which
was that his first audition ever in New York City
was with mom and that he absolutely sucked, and that
he saw the look on me.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
You know.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
He said to Mom something like Annie, do you want
to go rehearse first?
Speaker 4 (28:44):
And she kind of was a little skeptical.
Speaker 7 (28:46):
She said, oh okay, and they went to read it
through and she just thought, oh boy, there goes this job.
And so that I thought was hilarious. He said, you know,
I've always loved your mom. That she was so gracious
to me after I blew the job from both of us,
So that was great. But he he treated me, even
at sixteen, like a peer, and I was very serious.
(29:07):
I mean I started training at the Neighborhood Playhouse when
I was quite young. Charles Bush and I were in
the same singing class together. We took singing and improv
and stuff. But I lied about my age, which I
found out. I guess my mother didn't have to. We
both first studied at fifteen with Herbert Birkhoff, so again
(29:28):
I was still in school. I lied about my age
to get into the class, and I was in class
with Joey Pantaliano.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
You have a list of people you studied with. It's
a very heavy hitting list. Yeah, it's Berghoff, It's Hoggin,
it's Bobby Lewis, it's Lee seacat bats And I mean
the only name that's missing here is Win Handman.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
I mean when I study with everybody, right Norse Stella
Adler was that by choice. It wasn't that I felt
I was eliminating anybody. The truth is that from fairly
early on I was working quite a bit, so I
just didn't fe that I had to study with everybody.
I mean, I was able to apply having worked with
such extraordinary teachers, but also with amazing actors, and also
(30:09):
growing up with amazing actors. I guess I didn't feel
like I had to study with everybody. Again, it was
more about quality, not quantity.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
For me. That was enough, you know.
Speaker 7 (30:20):
And yet what's funny is now, at sixty seven, I'm
still studying. I'm taking an extraordinary Shakespeare course online with
my friend Christopher Tubori who lives in the Philippines. Yeah,
so that's been unbelievable. Penny Fuller is in our class.
It's just awesome. And Giles Foreman who studied under a
(30:40):
man called yat Melmgram and Christopher Fettis. And Christopher Fettis
was the man who Anthony Hopkins based his role as
Hannibal lecter on Christopher. He based lecture on christ Why,
oh well, if you ever met Christopher you would understand.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
But Christopher was a master.
Speaker 7 (30:59):
He found did the Drama Center in London, which is
as close to the equivalent of the Actors Studio as
you could beat. Yes, yes, well actually no, I think
Christopher was born in India during the rag you know,
and all that. But what fascinated me and drew me.
Although I had met Giles through Susan Batson many years ago,
(31:19):
and I've been teaching at his studio in London and Paris,
But what fascinated me about this whole lineage which is
different than our training, but they're in some ways quite similar.
Is that there are certain actors, the younger actors who
have all worked this particular method.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Shall we call it.
Speaker 7 (31:39):
Include Michael Fassbender and Tom Hardy, And I just went, Okay,
what are these guys doing?
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Would like to figure that Colin.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
Ferrell, Yeah, I mean amazing, amazing actors, you know, going
way way back to Sean Connery.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Et cetera, et cetera, who've all studied this.
Speaker 7 (31:56):
A group of these guys were all in after the
Second World War. They all ended up fleeing the Nazis,
and some of them were gay and whatever, and they
all ended up in England, including which flipped me out.
And I did not know this at the time. Michael
Chekhov was part of that whole group, and Udah Hagen
was interested. She was there as well. And it's based
(32:17):
a lot on what we might call psychological gesture, that
the repetition of a certain gesture over and over and
over starts to elicit something emotional from within. It changes
your rhythm.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
For example.
Speaker 7 (32:32):
Well, it gets a little more complicated because another part
that fascinates me that I think Lee would have loved
to because Lee was so interested in psychology as he
got older and older, is that there's a lot of
Yungian premise to this too, and so that each one
of us human beings basically are components of four things sensing, thinking, into, iting,
(32:55):
and feeling, and then it gets complicated on how you
combine that. But basically, for me, I can't do my
work without emotional memory, without sensory work, It's impossible. But
there was always a part of me from when I
was fairly young that started to feel like there's a
little bit missing, there's a little something still cloudy. And
this particular thing that I'm now working on, which is
(33:18):
like learning an entirely new language, has much more to
do with a certain level of precision. It has to
do with almost a type of architecture to building a character.
And again, you know, as a young actor, I remember
realizing that someone like Sean Penn, who is such an
internal actors you know, I don't like to use the
(33:39):
word method because he gets such a bad rap. And
also the true definition is whatever method works for you.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
That it seemed to me when you.
Speaker 7 (33:47):
Watch an actor like that over a long period of time,
where he's so internal and it's so emotional as he
gets older, he starts to shift more and al Pacino too,
I think, to more outer stuff, so that you get that. Yeah,
so did you get the balance between the two.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I'm doing a TV show years ago and I have
a scene in which the matriarch of the town who's
going to bestow money on a medical clinic, and she's
decided to withhold the funding for some quasi political reason.
And I have the scene with her where I'm appealing
to her to give us the money, and I'm like
grinding my gears for the whole I'm like, you know,
because the thing you don't understand, I'm like, right in
(34:27):
my sense memory, my dog died, I found the pigeon
dead by the fucking road or whatever, and you could.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Understand missus cunning it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I mean, my god, this is and we're done, and
the director works with me, goes, you know, we don't
have to do the whole show in the one scene, right,
So if you don't have to do it, And as
I have gone of these decades on, it becomes the
word I use is technical. It becomes more to the
inspiration is either there it isn't right, and I can
summon it. No, no, no, we don't have a problem
(34:59):
connect into some emotional absolutely oc current in me. But
to me, the technical now, I don't want people to
have to reach for the TV dialogue with.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
The said, which happens all the time, right.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
And the funny thing is is there's a great story
that Dad told I think he wrote it in his
book where as a young actor. They were original members
of the studio, and he went to the studio during
the day and he listened to Lee lecture and he
got all excited and worked up about it, couldn't wait
to run to the theater. He was doing Anthony and
Cleopatra with Catherine Cornell with her company, okay, and he's
(35:33):
playing the messenger or something. He was so excited, he
was so amped up that he jumped a queue and
cut out a page and a half of her dialer whatever.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And she was furious.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
And Dad runs back to Lee and he goes, Lee, Lee,
you know why you told me I was so excited,
And Lee just looked at him and said, pick up
your cues, Eli Darling, pick up your CUEO.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Actors studio member, ROBERTA. Wallack, if you're enjoying this conversation,
don't keep it to yourself, tell a friend and follow
here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever
you get your podcasts. When we come back. Roberta Wallack
shares a memory of acting rivalry with her father Eli Wallack.
(36:37):
I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. It
makes sense that Roberta Wallack would go into the family business,
having grown up surrounded by the cream of the crop
in the acting world. I wanted to know what her
parents thought about her following in their footsteps.
Speaker 7 (36:54):
They were interviewed once on a talk show and the
interviewer asked, did you encourage your kids to become actors?
And dad said, would you push your kid off a bridge?
So I think that was a mixed thing. I mean,
to be honest, and there were times where it really
amused me no end where Dad would get a little
bit jealous of me. I mean, I did the Sopranos
(37:15):
and he said to me, what can I get on
that show?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
And I said, Eli, call your agent.
Speaker 7 (37:20):
You know, I'm not excuse me, go through the proper
channels the way I had to, you know. So I
think there was some of that, but also so lucky
that I got to work with both of them on
the stage many times, on television, on film, and so
again we also were able to see each other as
(37:41):
peers in a certain way, which I think was fantastical.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
What did your sister say with the show you all
did together? And Frank, yeah, yeah, and she prayed you
do that.
Speaker 7 (37:50):
We started it in Manhattan off Broadway, and don't I
don't remember if Kath was in that original production or not.
But then we took it to Canada and then we
took it all around the country. We toured with it
for a while. That was incredible. That was an amazing experience.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I mean the Leicester for how long.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Over a year or more.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
That's the most amazing thing to me. I mean, it's
one thing to work with your wife, your girlfriends, right,
one of your siblings or whatever. Right, But to work
with your parents.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Right, Except that I think again we were exposed to it.
I mean we were exposed to it so young that
it seemed fairly normal. And the advantage, of course, was
I with both I was so familiar with how they
both worked. I mean Dad asked me to cue him
all the time, so I knew their instruments very well,
(38:42):
and so that made it easier and comfortable. But for example,
you know, stuff happens. I mean, of course, right, we
were doing an a mirror play together and I had
this very these very sexy scenes with John Shay, you know,
and I said to the director, excuse me, but could
you ask these two to leave the room while I'm
they're not on stage while John and I are having
(39:04):
this scene. I don't need to compound it with even
more therapy. Thank you very much that I'm about to read.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
We suck aspect out of this room, please exactly? Or
the funny things.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
I don't know if Kav told you, but there were
a number of instances during Ann Frank, during other things
that we did together, where and Brian Murray told this
great story about we're doing walts of the Torriodors together
and mom and Dad are having this huge fight. They're
just into it. They're just going at it, and Catherine
and I are paying any attention. We're just eating, We're
talking to each other as if nothing is happening, and
(39:36):
everybody else is just frozen and shocked, you know, but
the two of us are like, this is a day,
you know. Biggie, Yeah, no, Biggie, they'll be you know,
they'll get through this.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
This is just part of you know.
Speaker 7 (39:47):
It's usually the Anne Jackson I can't act moment where
she storms off and then god damn it, he says,
you know, and whatever, and they go through this whole
thing and then she comes back and it's as if
nothing happened. So and they talked a lot about it
being therapeutic for them to get fights on stage together.
So I think there was an element of that with us.
(40:09):
I mean one time I almost brought Dad up on
charges though, when we were doing the Diary of Van
Frank and we were in a black joking I'm not joking.
Charge is meaning equity charges, no, of course, not criminal,
but we were.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
In the middle of a blackout.
Speaker 7 (40:23):
We were in an exit and he started to give
me a note in the dark, and I pulled him
aside and I said, mister Wallack, you have anything to
say to me as an actor. You talked to my
stage manager and the stage manager will go to the director.
Don't you ever give me a note again? And his
tail went right between his legs. He was got I'm like,
(40:44):
oh no, no, no no. In the meantime, I would
sometimes beg my mother for a note, what.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Did each of them, respectively teach you about acting?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
What?
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Would she emphasize, Wow, you need to what and then correspondingly.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Him, Okay.
Speaker 7 (40:59):
So in the earlier days, I would say, as I
was saying before about how familiar I was with the
way that they worked. Dad had to learn all his lines,
I mean, have them down, pat. He had to first
pretty much get those that down really quickly.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Mom, on the other hand, did not care.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
She needed to know what the hell she was doing, whatever, whatever, whatever.
And so the good news is I saw the value
of both, right. So, I think the truth is that
they never really came that directly at us in terms
of acting. They really didn't. They really didn't talk about it.
(41:43):
I think so. And I think they also respected the
choices that I had made in terms of training.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Although I had to fight Dad for that first role.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
He said to me when I got the role, when
Paul Newman cast me in the film, he said to me.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
What about school? I said, what about it?
Speaker 7 (41:58):
I will do my school work and I will co
star opposite Joanne Woodward. Enough, I wanted to go to
professional children's school when I was a kid, and they
said no. He said no, you will get an education
like everyone else. In retrospect, I'm really glad that he
said that.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
What about her? What did she want you to know?
Speaker 7 (42:16):
I think they both What they really wanted to instill
was the joy of acting. To never lose that under
any circumstances, to stay true to that pure joy.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You know, I'm very much I would say more of
your mother's school, maybe for different reasons, where I've worked
with actors who came in and they were, you know,
if not letter perfect, they were pretty damned close day
one of rehearsals, right, Like, there's no discoveries that can
be made. But if you're there, you're several steps down
the board from where I am, and I'm not quite
sure what happens exactly.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
Cat accept that.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
For example, I'm saying here, I take longer usually to
learn text, but then when I do, I don't forget it.
I'm the one who gets the least number of notes.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Right, I'm the same way once I get I have
a very good memory. But my point is that I
would say to myself, well, I found myself incapable, or
at least I just didn't prefer maybe I was capable
of going into rehearsal and having memorized all my lines
and because what I need, what's missing is what are
you gonna do? Well?
Speaker 7 (43:19):
Look, I worked as a very young actor with Ruth
Gordon and Gar Kannan directing, and they said to me,
you have to have all your lines down before we
start rehearsing.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
And to me, that was torture. It was crazy.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
You know, it was really hard for me to work
that way, but out of respect, I thought, okay, we'll
do that. So it's remarkable when you get to work
with another studio member.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
I mean years ago, I did a little film.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
I don't think anything ever happened with it with our
buddy Stephen Lang and Stephen and I immediately before the
director even got into anything, we start improvising, we're jamming,
we're doing all this stuff. By the time they say action,
we're already into the scene with our own words first.
So being able to am that way again, it's like
playing with musicians, right, Being able to work that way,
(44:04):
that is what I prefer still to this day.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Now.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Your sister was very candid. She did not have warm
and glowing and idolatrous things to say about Strasburg. She
said that when she was there, she was kind of like,
maybe gett that. I'm not getting I'm not gonna when
you were in the studio, you were there when Lee
was there, Oh, absolutely, and what was your experience.
Speaker 7 (44:28):
So he taught me an extraordinary lesson very early on,
which was I remember going up to do a scene
and when it was over, I started making all kinds
of excuses about how I didn't have a lot of
time to prepare, and he went ballistic.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
Darling, I don't care if you have two minutes for
twenty minutes work twenty years and my whole body is shaking.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
I'm like leaving my body and it.
Speaker 7 (45:00):
It was extremely valuable because I realized, yeah, you know,
you have to do the work.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
You have to.
Speaker 7 (45:05):
I mean, yes, it's about having fun, but the flip
side of that is also preparation. And this is something
I know al Pacino doesn't credit himself with this, but
that notion of which is very zen by the way of.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
You do the work, you do the work, You do
the work, you do the work, and then you throw
it all away.
Speaker 7 (45:20):
So Lee was incredibly inspiring because he had that laser
beam ability to cut into something. But yeah, he was
a human being. He had favorites. He liked young women
and jeans and you know whatever. Okay, you know he
had that. But he was incredibly insightful and it was
fun to watch some of the really older established actors
(45:44):
turn into kids. I mean, Shelley Winter's turned into a
child in front of Lee. So a lot of people
were terrorized by him. I thought he was quite funny
a lot of the times. I mean I think I
mentioned to you that in his class once he suddenly
listed like thirty books in a row.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
And this is before self.
Speaker 7 (46:00):
Oh, I'm frantically writing down all of his references, and
finally he gets to the end of it and he goes, yeah, button,
He's addressing the whole class. He goes, yeah, but you
don't read anyway, and I burst out laughing. So, yes,
my experience was different. I adored him. I felt honored
to work for him, and you got it and I
got it. And also back to the Anne Frank thing,
(46:21):
was I did it asked backwards out of respect for him,
meaning I wanted to get into the studio as a
member first before I studied with him. So that's what
I did. And so when I went to study with him.
He had not seen me do Anne Frank and I
understood why because of Susan Strasburg playing it and he
didn't want to see it, and I understood that. But
he said to me, Donald, would you bring a scene in?
(46:44):
I said, sure, if that's what you want me to do.
And I remember setting up and doing my thing and whatever,
and when it was over, and I felt pretty good
because I had played it for so long. When it
was over, I said, yeah, so I did my preparation.
He went what I said, I did a preparations said
when I said, well, while I was setting up, he went, ah,
(47:04):
very good. I did not see that. So my experience
with him was quite different. I mean, I'm aware, very
aware because of historical information, particularly when he was younger,
a lot of people had problems with him and issues
and whatever. But for me going to work with him
much later in his life, I think it had softened him.
(47:25):
I mean, he was drinking chocolate milkshakes a lot, you know,
he was. He was a boobie to me in a
lot of ways. You know, I wasn't terrified by him.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
So my last question for you is your parents' legacy,
and that is when you think about your parents, what
comes to mind?
Speaker 4 (47:42):
Great love story?
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Right? Your sister said that she thought your fear she
thought your mother was more talented than your father, and
he kind of knew it.
Speaker 7 (47:51):
Right Well, it frustrated, similar to Paul and Joanne right binga.
But but I think the truth of that. I would
adjust it only slightly by saying, no one could could
touch Annie on the stage. No one, so in that sense, yes,
but when it comes to film, maybe not so much.
Maybe that was Dad's territory more so, that's fair. But
(48:13):
she was so instinctive. I mean, she was incredible. I
remember her saying to her once something about improvisation.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
She just went, I hate that. I hate improvisation.
Speaker 7 (48:24):
I said to her, that's because Anne Jackson, your entire
life is an improv That's how you live your life.
We mere mortals have to actually train in that, but you,
that's how you.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
You look forward to coming into a theater. As I
used to someone said to me, why do you love
the theater? I said, I know exactly what I'm going
to say. I know exactly what you're going to say.
I know exactly how they're going to react. I said,
that's heaven. To me, for I'm a control freak. That's
two and a half hours of just pure pleasure for me. Right,
But it's interesting you say that about the movie and
the stage thing.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
It's slight different set of muscles.
Speaker 7 (48:58):
And then there are those of us who are lucky
enough to be able to adjust and do both, which
has always been for me a joy that I've been
able to jump between big screen, small screen and the stage.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I think that you know, with your dad especially, I
think to myself, because I'm I'm an enormous fan of
your father, and there are moments of your father's career
that are just so indelible to me, and he's one
of the greatest movie actors of all time. Eli Wallack
was a person who had this power of understanding and
the character and insight and strength, and none of it
(49:30):
was at the expense of the.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
End, right. I think that was to both of them.
They were hugely generous.
Speaker 7 (49:35):
I mean not just as people but also as actors,
amazingly generous.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
And that's something I hope too.
Speaker 7 (49:43):
I hope I've narrowed in big time because it's important.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
My thanks to ROBERTA and Catherine Wallack. This episode was
recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. Were produced
by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hoben. Our engineer
is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich.
I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you
(50:12):
by iHeart Radio
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. Throughout movie history, there have been
many talented couples famous for acting together on screen Bogie
and Bacall, Newman and Woodward, Burton and Taylor, but one
couple occupies a singular place in the show business pantheon.
(00:27):
Eli Wallack and Anne Jackson. The couple met during a
nineteen forty six production of Tennessee Williams This Property Is Condemned,
and went on to star together on and off Broadway.
Eli Wallack's legendary movie career includes films like The Good,
The Bad and the Ugly, The Misfits, and The Godfather
(00:50):
Part Three. Anne Jackson can be found in movies like
Lovers and Other Strangers and The Shining. They were also
early members of the famed Actors Studio. As part of
our ongoing series to commemorate the seventy fifth anniversary of
the Actor's Studio, we are celebrating those responsible for its success,
(01:13):
which includes Jackson and Wallack. My guests today are two
of this illustrious acting couple's children, Roberta and Katherine Wallack.
The Wallack sisters grew up surrounded by theatre royalty, Alpaccino, Hume,
Cronen actors, studio director Lee Strasburg. Even their babysitter was famous.
(01:35):
Her name is Marilyn Monroe. The siblings would go on
to become actors in their own right, members of the studio,
and eventually sit on its Board of Directors. Later in
the episode, I'll speak to Drama Desk nominee Roberta. Wallack,
But first, Katherine Wallack is known for her numerous theater
(01:55):
credits and appearances in Scorsese films like Goodfellas, The King
of Comedy, and Gangs of New York. But the creativity
gene doesn't stop there. She's also a jewelry designer. Since
Wallach was raised in such an abundantly artistic household, I
wanted to know what life was like at home behind
(02:16):
the scenes for her mother.
Speaker 2 (02:19):
It was tough for her because right off the bat
he wanted to be the show stopper.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
For sure.
Speaker 2 (02:26):
She was offered a role as I forgot the wife's
name in The Honeymooners, Audrey Meadows, that's right, you know
that story, And she ended up giving it up so
she could kind of be a mother and an actor
in New York, so she kind of gave up this
huge opportunity to be with Jackie Gleason and Hrywood. Anyway,
the way that it worked is that we had one apartment,
(02:47):
went to the same school, except for two years we.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Lived in London.
Speaker 2 (02:51):
We had a nanny and that was the saving grace
of both my parents and their occupation. Why London, because
they did a Maurice ciscal play called Love there and
we ended up getting put into taken out of ethical
culture on Central Park West and we got put into
this school that was the absolute polar opposite, with uniforms
(03:15):
and curtsying and standing up to know your times tables
and it was extremely cruel in London, yes, and closed
for cruelty to children eventually. Oh yeah. So we lived
in England for two years. But other than that same apartment,
my entire life West Side eighty first and Riverside, same school.
You know, very dad was like military in his behavior.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
But does she do less with her career because she's
a mom?
Speaker 2 (03:40):
No, I don't think so, No, really no, I mean
she didn't go into film as much, but she worked
just as hard at.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
Theater and they did a lot of theater together, right.
Speaker 2 (03:51):
That was kind of their you know, calling card was
They used to joke about how they got paid to fight.
Speaker 3 (03:58):
Eight shows weak.
Speaker 4 (04:00):
No, she didn't, and she wrote a book.
Speaker 2 (04:02):
She was writing another book, as you know, later in life,
which never got finished, sadly, which was about being a mother,
an actress, and a wife actually, And I would love
to read those notes there at the Harry Ransom Center
right now.
Speaker 1 (04:16):
When he did, he travel a lot, He was gone
a lot working, He was gone a lot, and you
didn't go with him when.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
We could in the summers you could, yeah, but.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
During the school year, your mother wanted you to have
a normal life, that's right. And he would leave and
which she would work while.
Speaker 2 (04:30):
He was gone sometimes sometimes, but no, for the most part,
she was hanging with us, or she would go and
hang with him, and we would be home with the
with Nelly, who's a gap toothed woman from North Carolina,
and I thought she was my mother.
Speaker 1 (04:42):
I have this very romanticized view of your parents right
where they're sitting there at the dinner table and you're there,
the two girls are there, your brother and family, friends
and associates, and your father's talking all about what it
was like shooting with O'Toole and what it was, and
your mother's talking about shooting with Like did they regale
you with stories of show business or they didn't give
(05:04):
a shit about that.
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Now when their friends were over, they did, they did.
Speaker 3 (05:07):
Yeah, yeah, but for.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
The most part, I mean it was kind of strict
around the table in what way. Well, dad was kind
of strict, you know till I was eighteen. I kind
of put him in his place once, but you know,
we had table manners and had to raise your hand.
Can I be excused? I mean stuff that you do
not see no nowadays, you know what I'm saying. And
recently a friend from high school said, oh, yeah, I
was afraid to go to your house.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
Yeah, you know, because my dad was like a dinner
at our house resembles a production of One Flew Over
the Cuckoo's Nets. Yeah, yeah, my dinner at my house
is very different.
Speaker 2 (05:36):
Well, we had also screaming and get up and slam
a door, and we're just like, hey, you know, life
is normal. I mean theatrics going on, my mother crying,
no tears coming down, you know, and like door slam
one time she slammed, he slammed himself in the bedroom
and then it got locked and he couldn't get out,
and it gave him a bull in there, and so she
went and got the super and when they finally got about,
(05:58):
he went to like a movie they wanted sea together
and just slammed the door at the front door of
the apartment like I'm out of here, you know, fuck you.
But he had a really bad temperament.
Speaker 1 (06:07):
He did. Oh really he did.
Speaker 3 (06:09):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (06:10):
He would also like show up at the door wearing
a wig and an apron. I mean he was crazy,
you know, he was great. He was the best, a
man of my dream. Seriously, I loved my dad more
than anything.
Speaker 1 (06:18):
Did he come from a family where show business was
in his family?
Speaker 3 (06:21):
No?
Speaker 2 (06:22):
No, they came from Poland full on. They owned a
candy store in Brooklyn, had no money, all of them
very easy, yes, his family, very easy, low key people.
They all went off to become teachers, his sisters and brothers.
His brother Sam was my mother's high school teacher.
Speaker 1 (06:40):
And what was the thing in him coming from a
certain kind of family with their passions and stuff and
their goals. What do you think it was that launched
him into show business?
Speaker 2 (06:49):
I think from what my memory brings me is he
they grew up like with one of those I forgot
what they call them in the candy store where the
pictures flip. You put a coin in and it's like
a little movie, right, And I think because his dad
was pretty strict abe, you know, Polish, very whatever, Jewish school,
old school, he would run away sometimes from school and
(07:11):
like put money from the register in this little movie
thing and just watch these movies over and over and
it was his.
Speaker 4 (07:17):
Escape, I guess fantasy.
Speaker 1 (07:19):
Yeah. Now you're a member of the studio. Your sister's
a member of the studio. You're both on the board
of directors of the studio. And what's your recollection of that,
meaning their respective participation in the studio. Your mother was
a member as well. Yes, So do you have any
recollection of Lee and what Lee was to your dad
(07:40):
and your mom?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (07:41):
I do.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
I was pretty young.
Speaker 2 (07:43):
I'm not that much younger, Birti's three years older than me,
but and she was a student of Lee's. I was not,
but I remember we used to go at a very
young age. We used to go to Lee's house for
passover and there'd be like this really cute guy leaning
against a bookcase and that was alphag No or you know,
I didn't know. I thought he was my grandfather. I
didn't get it. I didn't know who he was. Roberta's
(08:05):
middle name is Lee, so I'm like, oh, it's grand
that I got another grandfather, because I only met one grandparent.
So we would go there and we would look for
the matza, and then he would give us a silver
dollar if you found the Matzeigman. It was a very
big celebration with all these people and very kind of
happy Jewish situation that I really didn't understand that well.
(08:25):
And then my other memories were at the studio itself
watching Lee moderate and thinking, you know, he had an
egg timer. For example, Frances Fisher would be up there
and she'd take her shirt off and he'd be like, oh,
that was wonderful.
Speaker 4 (08:37):
Dear, that was wonderful.
Speaker 2 (08:39):
I was like, Wow, you know, this is the big
guy behind the Wizard of Oz, behind the curtain.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
And you didn't get it.
Speaker 3 (08:47):
No, I didn't get it.
Speaker 4 (08:48):
He seemed charming.
Speaker 3 (08:49):
I liked him.
Speaker 2 (08:49):
He was an old dude and he had once in
a while he had some cool shit to say.
Speaker 3 (08:53):
But I was like, that's interesting.
Speaker 2 (08:56):
You know whereas like Hume Cronin, Jessica Tandy, these people
being around you know, George c. Scott and Colleen and
those people, or Paul and Joann, those people had vibes,
you know what I'm saying. Being around those kind of
friends or what would you call them, colleagues, colleagues, those people,
(09:17):
I would feel the kind of gig young I remember,
you know, I remember some people that really impressed me.
Speaker 1 (09:23):
Now, how would you say, because obviously you have this
very serious business making jewelry, and you've been doing it
for quite a while successfully, and I'm wondering was that
something that you discovered, as many of us discovered, something
to fill in those gaps of the average acting career
(09:44):
where you're not always working as much as you want to.
You sit there, go I got to do something.
Speaker 2 (09:48):
I would say yes, except for that, I'm one of
those people that has to express myself artistically. I did
all the flowers for all the weddings of my nephews,
I designed my flowers, I catered for years, I tap danced,
I was in a band. I mean, I have to
constantly express So the thing that happened with the jewelry
was when I was a kid. We went down to
(10:08):
visit a friend of my dad's who is a not
a friend relative, who had a bead factory on thirty
eighth Street, and they let me go rampant in the
basement and I went insane, and I was starting a
string beads. And so from a very young age. It's
also a family business. There's Wallack jewelry. I mean, it's like,
that's not mine, you.
Speaker 4 (10:28):
Know, So it was just it's just a way of
which I.
Speaker 2 (10:32):
Mean, there's pictures of me at six selling in the
Hamptons on a towel in front of our house, you know.
And but I guess at thirty, really I'm sixty almost five,
so at thirty as.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
One, so the creative impulse to make the jewelry superseded
way before acting career.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
Yeah, I mean I got my SAG card when I
was seven in a film with my parents, which one
Murray Ciskell Tiger makes out.
Speaker 4 (10:55):
It was the typeist in the Tiger movie.
Speaker 2 (10:57):
Version, right, And then you know I was not born
to be an actress. My sister, I think felt that way.
Speaker 1 (11:04):
How would you describe your path as an actress?
Speaker 4 (11:06):
Oh, I kind of was like, well, I guess it's
in my bone.
Speaker 3 (11:09):
You know, I should check it out.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I do things in that way, you know, which
I guess is annoying to some people. But I once
I for example, we were in Diary Van Frank and
I said, look, don't put me in this if I suck,
you know. The director said, I'm not putting you in
if you suck. So I think I was smoking pot
in the attic between acts and the girl who is
my sister's understudy, said, Okay, do you really want to
(11:32):
do this? Do you really want to be an actress?
I said, oh, yes, definitely. It was so high, and
so she took me and she called Bill Esper and
said that said, I'm enrolling you, and you know, I'm
getting you into this class. And for two years I
studied Sandy Meisner technique with Bill Asper, and you know
it went from there. I moved to Hollywood for four
or five years and ended up catering vegan food to
(11:52):
hippies on Melrose and you know, whatever the hell I
was doing feeding meters and I did some really bad
TV shows the thing in my gap and curled hair
and fake tits, and I.
Speaker 4 (12:02):
Said, no, this is not right. Why are they making
me look like everybody else?
Speaker 2 (12:06):
So they came back to New York and I did
some plays and started kind of that's when I got
into the studio. I think in nine and eighty nine
or eighty five or something, I became a member, and
you know, just kind.
Speaker 4 (12:20):
Of like took it easy because it's a hard belise.
Speaker 1 (12:23):
Knowing as you did that you had your cynicism about
Strasburg himself. What becomes the lure of the studio? Why
do you want to go to the studio?
Speaker 2 (12:33):
I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean I think
it's just the feeling of that it meant so much
to my folks and had so much to do with
their foundation and their sanctuary, and so I thought, Okay,
I'm going to see what this is all about. And
even in the beginning, when I was in my twenties
and I'm like, I'm just doing some scenes with people
(12:54):
that were doing some stuff.
Speaker 3 (12:55):
I was like, what the fuck are you doing?
Speaker 2 (12:57):
You know? But then again, there is there's a way
that the work is done there that is like no
other place on the earth. When it works, when it
works and when to something yes, and when people are
brave enough literally brave enough to go there and not
get up there and do what they're good at. You know,
I'm going up tomorrow with one day notice, and I
(13:19):
Am not going to do what I'm good at. My
instinct is to get up there and you know, do
my thing, you know, my shtick. But I wrote bow
back actually and said no.
Speaker 1 (13:27):
No.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
He said, thank you so much. You know, you're so brave.
I said, either brave or crazy. I said, I'm going
there because I want to learn. I never want to
stop learning. And that's what my folks taught me. Is
like even into the nineties, you know, like before he
really went into dementia land, you know, he was still
trying to work and learn and you know, pitch himself.
Speaker 4 (13:47):
To directors and shit.
Speaker 2 (13:48):
He famously wrote a letter to Scorsese saying I want
to be in one of your films, and Scorsese apparently
thought it was a lie until he saw that he
mentioned Cis Corman, so he realized, oh, you know, they
maybe this is really like maybe in Stationary, you know
what I mean. Like he really wrote a letter to
him saying, one of my bucket list things is I
want to work with you.
Speaker 1 (14:12):
Actor's studio member Catherine Wallack. If you love conversations about
the craft of acting, be sure to check out my
episode with another Actor's Studio board member, the late Patricia Bosworth.
Do you speak to Brando much for the book?
Speaker 5 (14:27):
No, I didn't speak to him at all. I only
met him once at the Actor's Studio. I called him
on the phone. He wanted to talk to me, originally
because he wanted to talk about Kazan, and he actually
wrote me a letter that he would talk to me,
but then he decided not to and I really became
so frustrated. I kept calling him and calling, and finally
somebody said, why don't you call his dog.
Speaker 4 (14:48):
Alec.
Speaker 5 (14:49):
I did listen to this. I faxed, dear Fido, I
want to speak to your master. Within seconds, the facts
came back saying my master does not want to talk
to you, and signed with two paw prints. This was
Brando answering me.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
Hear more of my conversation with Patricia Bosworth at Here'sthething
dot Org. After the break, Katherine Wallack tells us how
the Actor's Studio has changed in her lifetime, and later
Roberta Wallack shares her experience starring alongside Joanne Woodward and
being directed by none other than Paul Newman. While still
(15:31):
in high school. I'm Alec Baldwin and you're listening to
Here's the Thing. Actors Studio board member Katherine Wallack made
her film debut at age six. She would go on
(15:54):
to perform and stand out plays like The Beauty Queen
of Lennon, The Walls of the Torreats, and Awake and Sing.
I was curious what life in the theater was like
coming up as a child of one of America's great
acting dynasties.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
Well, we acted a lot together, which was such a joy,
all four of us. We did The Flowering Peach directed
by Bobby Lewis. We did a tour directed of Wilson,
The Toyers directed by Brian Murray who was an actor,
he wasn't a director at the time. We did dire
Van Frank directed by Marty Freed. So you know, we
we would like kind of go the Flying Walendos, would.
Speaker 3 (16:32):
Like go on the road.
Speaker 1 (16:33):
You know.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
It was awesome and I think they pretty much took
me often to get me away from my.
Speaker 3 (16:39):
New York pot smoking ways. You know, we had.
Speaker 4 (16:42):
Yeah, I was Yeah, were you the troubled child?
Speaker 6 (16:45):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (16:45):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, So.
Speaker 1 (16:47):
I don't know how you work in the theater were
smoking pot. I did the the Orton play Loot. It
was my Broadway debut, as they say, and I did
the play with Joe Mahara and Jelcob Ivanic and so
we want to make her and Charlie Keating played the husband,
and my dressing room was above his, and during the half,
Charlie Keating would smoke an enormous joint and the smoke
(17:09):
would go up out his window, up the alleyway and
go in my window of my room. I could smell
the wheel. Because his character was supposed to make an
entrance disheveled having been in a car crash, and he
enters disheveled in a mess and chaotic and shop. He
would smoke pot in his room and then they would
we would do the second half, and he'd walk out
(17:31):
and go, oh my god, he awful action on the road.
And he was like wasted, And I thought, how the
fuck do you act waste?
Speaker 3 (17:41):
I have no idea.
Speaker 2 (17:42):
I can't I mean except for like when we were
in Dire around Frank and Tony Holland would say, bring
on the dancing girls. When the Nazis would come and
bang the door down, I mean, and I'm trying not
to laugh, you know.
Speaker 4 (17:53):
Anyway, after that, I swiftly.
Speaker 2 (17:55):
Got my ass to class and stop smoking about I
can't even smell it now, funny, really like, I really
don't like the smell of it.
Speaker 1 (18:02):
Do you hate it? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (18:03):
Kind of smoke? Since I'm thirty?
Speaker 1 (18:05):
What's the last job you did? What's the last show
you did?
Speaker 2 (18:08):
I did two films during COVID that have now been
written in from shorts to feature, and they kept me
in my role. So we're about to shoot the you are, Yeah,
I'm excited.
Speaker 1 (18:18):
Do you still like what you're feeling about acting now?
How do you you still enjoy it?
Speaker 4 (18:22):
I absolutely love doing it?
Speaker 1 (18:24):
You do? Yeah? You're in and out of the studio
when you're younger, and your parents, of course are members
of the studio. How's it changed in your leftome.
Speaker 2 (18:32):
Well, back in those days, there was working working actors,
and there was not the school filtering students coming in there.
Weren't you know, this kind of influx of all different
levels of.
Speaker 1 (18:42):
No relationship with the MFA program.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
Right, So there was like a very high standard. There
was also kind of a looser attitude about when you
could rehearse and go in. We all had keys. You
could spend the night there if you stuck, which I
have many times. You know, there was a very different
kind of vibe. And I was the little one, you know,
I was one of the few younger ones at the.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
Bohemian, Yeah, you know.
Speaker 2 (19:08):
And I took me three times to get in, and
by the time I got in, I did Sidney Kingsley's
dead End, you know. And by the time I got
in they called me to tell me. I was like,
oh yeah, okay, fine and click. Because they put me
through some major hoops to become a member, which was fine.
I didn't want any special treatment. I get actually offended
when during moderation in a scene where, you know, during session,
(19:31):
people bring up my parents and I'm like, why.
Speaker 3 (19:32):
Didn't you bring up Joe's parents? Huh? You know, I mean,
could you just get me break? Now?
Speaker 2 (19:37):
You really have to find that underlying thread, You really
have to find that kind of old school connection because
there's so many different energies going on there now. But
you know, people that diss it and don't come and
I just say, you know, it is what you make it,
and I don't have a huge career right now, so
it is my way of expressing, being able to express
(19:58):
on the stage, and I cherish that. I mean, I'm
really lucky, you know. I see movies and plays the
other day everybody stands up and yells bravo. My father
used to get so pissed when people stand up and
yell bravo just because they saw play.
Speaker 1 (20:12):
It's funny how your dad, who I worship, you know,
the mark of a truly great film actor, to me
is just the indelibility of these lines of theirs. Your
father comes from a school, which I don't think he
would claim to be a member of this school, but
I kind of recognize a school of people which is
just be the best thing in the movie. Doesn't matter
(20:34):
how big your part is, just be memorable in the
movie of your truthfulness. Your parents' legacy, what would you
hope their legacy.
Speaker 2 (20:42):
Is that they were so in love with each other
and that they worked together so well. The respect I mean,
my father. If my mother said this was an umbrella,
my father would say, your mother said, that's an umbrella.
That's an umbrella. You know, devotion, devotion, artistic respect, and love.
I mean that that would be you know what I
(21:04):
would say, And they they really did their best at
raising as normal if you could call us that healthy
non involved in the hole. You know, they kept us accountable.
And they also at the same time, like Dad was
more proud of me making you know, ninety grand as
a rep for an eyework company than he was if
I was acting. Absolutely, he was like so much more
(21:25):
proud of it. But yeah, I think it was.
Speaker 1 (21:28):
It was like interesting you mentioned that the legacy is
their relationship.
Speaker 2 (21:32):
Yeah, I think it is. That's amazing because nowadays, like
you know, I mean, there were so few of them
that that work together as much as my folks. They
really did, you know, always, especially you don't see it now,
And as they got older, you know, they would write,
they would do poetry performances and all sorts of churches
and smaller theaters around New York. My father did student films.
(21:53):
He and I worked together at the studio. We did
Moon for the Misbegotten. I played Josie. Here he comes
walking down the aisle. I'm like, that's Eli Wallack walking
gumme oile.
Speaker 3 (22:02):
It was unbelievable, you know.
Speaker 2 (22:04):
After by the way, we stopped and Stephen Lang was
the moderator, and Dad said, hey, can we try it again?
And then he goes, yeah, go ahead, and we did
it again with the notes they gave us.
Speaker 4 (22:15):
Can we do it again? He was like eighty something,
you know, like that's beautiful.
Speaker 1 (22:24):
Actress and designer Catherine Wallack my next guest. Roberta Wallack
is known for her work on stage and screen, including
her drama Desk nominated performance in The Model Apartments. She
made her film debut while still in high school in
the Effect of Gamma rays on Man in the Moon Maragos.
(22:45):
Since Anne Jackson and Eli Wallack were so prolific throughout
Roberta's childhood, I wanted to know how her parents balanced
work with raising their children.
Speaker 7 (22:56):
Dad was gone much more so than mom, and they
had an agreement basically to try and make sure as
often as possible that they were not both gone at
the same time, or if they were very often we
would go with them. But she was around a lot.
And also back then, when for instance, Off Broadway was
(23:18):
still a fairly new thing happening in New York City,
they did a lot of theater a lot, and the
curtains were later they were eight o'clock, right, So we
would all sit down to dinner at six eat dinner.
I remember Mom always had to go take a nap.
She would take a nap and then they would go
off to the theater. But then whenever there was free time.
(23:42):
She was a very hands on mom. I mean, I'm
marvel at the stuff she was able to balance. We
had help, fabulous help, Catherine. I always refer to our
Nelly as our black mother, right, you know, who was
amazing and came to work for us when I was
only a couple of months old and she was very close.
She really became, I am a family member. But the
(24:02):
fact that she was able to balance being a wife,
having the career that she had, which was pretty big,
and to be mom to us was amazing. I mean,
I have memories of her around the holidays, taking us
always shopping to get new outfits and to see Santa
Claus at Bonwood Teller's or whatever, Lord and Taylor's and
(24:24):
Kath and I, my sister and I. Easter time, we
always were outfitted in great little outfits to go to
the Easter parade.
Speaker 4 (24:31):
They were very both of them.
Speaker 7 (24:32):
Actually, you know, when Dad was around, I realized fairly
young that it was quality time versus quantity time. And
I remember talking briefly to Kate Winslet about it, who
was very concerned about being a mother, a working mother,
and I said to her, I get that, and I'm
not going to lie to you. Could be some therapy
builds down the line, abandonment stuff. But kids, I think,
(24:56):
very early on, realize and recognize that when their parents
really love what they do, especially when it's something like acting,
which every kid pretty much every kid wants to do
all the time. Anyway, we give them a pass. We
understand what that sensation is. I mean, I decided absolutely
for sure I was going to be an actor at
(25:16):
age six. I was taken on a date with Patty
Tchaiyevsky's son Danny. We were both in school together. We
went to see Oliver on Broadway six when I was six,
and I remember sitting there and before that time, I
kept thinking, well, do I want to be a.
Speaker 4 (25:33):
Ballerina or a nurse?
Speaker 7 (25:34):
A ballerina or a nurse, And then I went when
I sat in that theater, I realized, oh, no, I
want to be an actor, because then I can be
a ballerina and a nurse, and I can also play
a boy if I want to. I could be a
boy nurse or a boy ballerina. I could be anything.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
Now, your sister mentioned how your dad was a pretty
no nonsense guy when you was home. Yeah, there was
a lot of rules and manners and have you asked
to be excused from the table.
Speaker 7 (26:04):
Well, he had been in the military, okay for way
too long. And his estimation because his birthday was December seventh,
Pearl Harbor Day, so he was already in the army
and it was happy birthday. Here's another three years or whatever.
You're stuck here. So yeah, he was very militant about time.
If you were four minutes early, that was considered late,
and he would pout for and not speak to you
(26:26):
for about two hours. To this day, sometimes I'm if
I'm walking in my apartment without my barefoot, I can
hear my father's voice saying.
Speaker 4 (26:35):
I'll find you put your slippers on. Where are your slippers?
Speaker 7 (26:38):
You know, there were certain things that they were strict about,
but in retrospect, I think it was kind of great
because it gave us all a sense of ethics, a
sense a work ethic, a discipline that you know we
needed so consideration.
Speaker 4 (26:53):
Yeah, when did you.
Speaker 1 (26:55):
First become aware of the studio yourself? Was it through
your parents and going there with that?
Speaker 7 (27:00):
I have an effective memory, a vague one of an
older version of the studio of walking between these seats
on a kind of rake. That's all I can remember
about that. But no, my earliest memories of the studio
are really more about Lee himself, about Strasburg. I think
I mentioned to my middle name is Lee, after Lee,
(27:22):
your sister, right, So he was for me a sort
of grandpa figure. But when it came to the work itself,
then we had a much more slightly reserved and what
I would call more of a professional relationship, even though
there was tremendous love and fondness there. So those are
my earliest memories. I mean, I got into the studio
(27:44):
in nineteen eighty, but I did my first feature that
Paul Newman directed when I was sixteen.
Speaker 4 (27:52):
I was still in high.
Speaker 7 (27:53):
School, The Effect of Gamma, Right, So I was still
in high school with Joanne.
Speaker 4 (27:58):
What was that extraordinary? Extraordinary?
Speaker 7 (28:01):
I mean I have yet to have an experience even
remotely like it, I'm afraid, but whatever, it was extraordinary
because from the moment of the audition. And fortunately, when
I first auditioned, I think Sis Corman actually got me
the audition. When I got in there, Paul didn't know
who I was, who my parents were, and it wasn't
until the very end that the casting director said something like,
(28:25):
we'll say hi to your parents, and he went, who
are your parents? And then I told him And then
he told me the most hilarious thing I thought, which
was that his first audition ever in New York City
was with mom and that he absolutely sucked, and that
he saw the look on me.
Speaker 1 (28:40):
You know.
Speaker 7 (28:40):
He said to Mom something like Annie, do you want
to go rehearse first?
Speaker 4 (28:44):
And she kind of was a little skeptical.
Speaker 7 (28:46):
She said, oh okay, and they went to read it
through and she just thought, oh boy, there goes this job.
And so that I thought was hilarious. He said, you know,
I've always loved your mom. That she was so gracious
to me after I blew the job from both of us,
So that was great. But he he treated me, even
at sixteen, like a peer, and I was very serious.
(29:07):
I mean I started training at the Neighborhood Playhouse when
I was quite young. Charles Bush and I were in
the same singing class together. We took singing and improv
and stuff. But I lied about my age, which I
found out. I guess my mother didn't have to. We
both first studied at fifteen with Herbert Birkhoff, so again
(29:28):
I was still in school. I lied about my age
to get into the class, and I was in class
with Joey Pantaliano.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
You have a list of people you studied with. It's
a very heavy hitting list. Yeah, it's Berghoff, It's Hoggin,
it's Bobby Lewis, it's Lee seacat bats And I mean
the only name that's missing here is Win Handman.
Speaker 7 (29:48):
I mean when I study with everybody, right Norse Stella
Adler was that by choice. It wasn't that I felt
I was eliminating anybody. The truth is that from fairly
early on I was working quite a bit, so I
just didn't fe that I had to study with everybody.
I mean, I was able to apply having worked with
such extraordinary teachers, but also with amazing actors, and also
(30:09):
growing up with amazing actors. I guess I didn't feel
like I had to study with everybody. Again, it was
more about quality, not quantity.
Speaker 4 (30:17):
For me. That was enough, you know.
Speaker 7 (30:20):
And yet what's funny is now, at sixty seven, I'm
still studying. I'm taking an extraordinary Shakespeare course online with
my friend Christopher Tubori who lives in the Philippines. Yeah,
so that's been unbelievable. Penny Fuller is in our class.
It's just awesome. And Giles Foreman who studied under a
(30:40):
man called yat Melmgram and Christopher Fettis. And Christopher Fettis
was the man who Anthony Hopkins based his role as
Hannibal lecter on Christopher. He based lecture on christ Why,
oh well, if you ever met Christopher you would understand.
Speaker 4 (30:57):
But Christopher was a master.
Speaker 7 (30:59):
He found did the Drama Center in London, which is
as close to the equivalent of the Actors Studio as
you could beat. Yes, yes, well actually no, I think
Christopher was born in India during the rag you know,
and all that. But what fascinated me and drew me.
Although I had met Giles through Susan Batson many years ago,
(31:19):
and I've been teaching at his studio in London and Paris,
But what fascinated me about this whole lineage which is
different than our training, but they're in some ways quite similar.
Is that there are certain actors, the younger actors who
have all worked this particular method.
Speaker 4 (31:38):
Shall we call it.
Speaker 7 (31:39):
Include Michael Fassbender and Tom Hardy, And I just went, Okay,
what are these guys doing?
Speaker 4 (31:45):
Would like to figure that Colin.
Speaker 7 (31:47):
Ferrell, Yeah, I mean amazing, amazing actors, you know, going
way way back to Sean Connery.
Speaker 4 (31:53):
Et cetera, et cetera, who've all studied this.
Speaker 7 (31:56):
A group of these guys were all in after the
Second World War. They all ended up fleeing the Nazis,
and some of them were gay and whatever, and they
all ended up in England, including which flipped me out.
And I did not know this at the time. Michael
Chekhov was part of that whole group, and Udah Hagen
was interested. She was there as well. And it's based
(32:17):
a lot on what we might call psychological gesture, that
the repetition of a certain gesture over and over and
over starts to elicit something emotional from within. It changes
your rhythm.
Speaker 1 (32:31):
For example.
Speaker 7 (32:32):
Well, it gets a little more complicated because another part
that fascinates me that I think Lee would have loved
to because Lee was so interested in psychology as he
got older and older, is that there's a lot of
Yungian premise to this too, and so that each one
of us human beings basically are components of four things sensing, thinking, into, iting,
(32:55):
and feeling, and then it gets complicated on how you
combine that. But basically, for me, I can't do my
work without emotional memory, without sensory work, It's impossible. But
there was always a part of me from when I
was fairly young that started to feel like there's a
little bit missing, there's a little something still cloudy. And
this particular thing that I'm now working on, which is
(33:18):
like learning an entirely new language, has much more to
do with a certain level of precision. It has to
do with almost a type of architecture to building a character.
And again, you know, as a young actor, I remember
realizing that someone like Sean Penn, who is such an
internal actors you know, I don't like to use the
(33:39):
word method because he gets such a bad rap. And
also the true definition is whatever method works for you.
Speaker 4 (33:46):
That it seemed to me when you.
Speaker 7 (33:47):
Watch an actor like that over a long period of time,
where he's so internal and it's so emotional as he
gets older, he starts to shift more and al Pacino too,
I think, to more outer stuff, so that you get that. Yeah,
so did you get the balance between the two.
Speaker 1 (34:06):
I'm doing a TV show years ago and I have
a scene in which the matriarch of the town who's
going to bestow money on a medical clinic, and she's
decided to withhold the funding for some quasi political reason.
And I have the scene with her where I'm appealing
to her to give us the money, and I'm like
grinding my gears for the whole I'm like, you know,
because the thing you don't understand, I'm like, right in
(34:27):
my sense memory, my dog died, I found the pigeon
dead by the fucking road or whatever, and you could.
Speaker 4 (34:35):
Understand missus cunning it.
Speaker 1 (34:37):
I mean, my god, this is and we're done, and
the director works with me, goes, you know, we don't
have to do the whole show in the one scene, right,
So if you don't have to do it, And as
I have gone of these decades on, it becomes the
word I use is technical. It becomes more to the
inspiration is either there it isn't right, and I can
summon it. No, no, no, we don't have a problem
(34:59):
connect into some emotional absolutely oc current in me. But
to me, the technical now, I don't want people to
have to reach for the TV dialogue with.
Speaker 4 (35:07):
The said, which happens all the time, right.
Speaker 7 (35:09):
And the funny thing is is there's a great story
that Dad told I think he wrote it in his
book where as a young actor. They were original members
of the studio, and he went to the studio during
the day and he listened to Lee lecture and he
got all excited and worked up about it, couldn't wait
to run to the theater. He was doing Anthony and
Cleopatra with Catherine Cornell with her company, okay, and he's
(35:33):
playing the messenger or something. He was so excited, he
was so amped up that he jumped a queue and
cut out a page and a half of her dialer whatever.
Speaker 4 (35:45):
And she was furious.
Speaker 8 (35:47):
And Dad runs back to Lee and he goes, Lee, Lee,
you know why you told me I was so excited,
And Lee just looked at him and said, pick up
your cues, Eli Darling, pick up your CUEO.
Speaker 1 (36:02):
Actors studio member, ROBERTA. Wallack, if you're enjoying this conversation,
don't keep it to yourself, tell a friend and follow
here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever
you get your podcasts. When we come back. Roberta Wallack
shares a memory of acting rivalry with her father Eli Wallack.
(36:37):
I'm Alec Baldwin, and this is here's the thing. It
makes sense that Roberta Wallack would go into the family business,
having grown up surrounded by the cream of the crop
in the acting world. I wanted to know what her
parents thought about her following in their footsteps.
Speaker 7 (36:54):
They were interviewed once on a talk show and the
interviewer asked, did you encourage your kids to become actors?
And dad said, would you push your kid off a bridge?
So I think that was a mixed thing. I mean,
to be honest, and there were times where it really
amused me no end where Dad would get a little
bit jealous of me. I mean, I did the Sopranos
(37:15):
and he said to me, what can I get on
that show?
Speaker 4 (37:17):
And I said, Eli, call your agent.
Speaker 7 (37:20):
You know, I'm not excuse me, go through the proper
channels the way I had to, you know. So I
think there was some of that, but also so lucky
that I got to work with both of them on
the stage many times, on television, on film, and so
again we also were able to see each other as
(37:41):
peers in a certain way, which I think was fantastical.
Speaker 1 (37:44):
What did your sister say with the show you all
did together? And Frank, yeah, yeah, and she prayed you
do that.
Speaker 7 (37:50):
We started it in Manhattan off Broadway, and don't I
don't remember if Kath was in that original production or not.
But then we took it to Canada and then we
took it all around the country. We toured with it
for a while. That was incredible. That was an amazing experience.
Speaker 1 (38:06):
I mean the Leicester for how long.
Speaker 4 (38:09):
Over a year or more.
Speaker 1 (38:11):
That's the most amazing thing to me. I mean, it's
one thing to work with your wife, your girlfriends, right,
one of your siblings or whatever. Right, But to work
with your parents.
Speaker 7 (38:20):
Right, Except that I think again we were exposed to it.
I mean we were exposed to it so young that
it seemed fairly normal. And the advantage, of course, was
I with both I was so familiar with how they
both worked. I mean Dad asked me to cue him
all the time, so I knew their instruments very well,
(38:42):
and so that made it easier and comfortable. But for example,
you know, stuff happens. I mean, of course, right, we
were doing an a mirror play together and I had
this very these very sexy scenes with John Shay, you know,
and I said to the director, excuse me, but could
you ask these two to leave the room while I'm
they're not on stage while John and I are having
(39:04):
this scene. I don't need to compound it with even
more therapy. Thank you very much that I'm about to read.
Speaker 4 (39:10):
We suck aspect out of this room, please exactly? Or
the funny things.
Speaker 7 (39:15):
I don't know if Kav told you, but there were
a number of instances during Ann Frank, during other things
that we did together, where and Brian Murray told this
great story about we're doing walts of the Torriodors together
and mom and Dad are having this huge fight. They're
just into it. They're just going at it, and Catherine
and I are paying any attention. We're just eating, We're
talking to each other as if nothing is happening, and
(39:36):
everybody else is just frozen and shocked, you know, but
the two of us are like, this is a day,
you know. Biggie, Yeah, no, Biggie, they'll be you know,
they'll get through this.
Speaker 4 (39:46):
This is just part of you know.
Speaker 7 (39:47):
It's usually the Anne Jackson I can't act moment where
she storms off and then god damn it, he says,
you know, and whatever, and they go through this whole
thing and then she comes back and it's as if
nothing happened. So and they talked a lot about it
being therapeutic for them to get fights on stage together.
So I think there was an element of that with us.
(40:09):
I mean one time I almost brought Dad up on
charges though, when we were doing the Diary of Van
Frank and we were in a black joking I'm not joking.
Charge is meaning equity charges, no, of course, not criminal,
but we were.
Speaker 4 (40:22):
In the middle of a blackout.
Speaker 7 (40:23):
We were in an exit and he started to give
me a note in the dark, and I pulled him
aside and I said, mister Wallack, you have anything to
say to me as an actor. You talked to my
stage manager and the stage manager will go to the director.
Don't you ever give me a note again? And his
tail went right between his legs. He was got I'm like,
(40:44):
oh no, no, no no. In the meantime, I would
sometimes beg my mother for a note, what.
Speaker 1 (40:50):
Did each of them, respectively teach you about acting?
Speaker 2 (40:54):
What?
Speaker 1 (40:54):
Would she emphasize, Wow, you need to what and then correspondingly.
Speaker 4 (40:58):
Him, Okay.
Speaker 7 (40:59):
So in the earlier days, I would say, as I
was saying before about how familiar I was with the
way that they worked. Dad had to learn all his lines,
I mean, have them down, pat. He had to first
pretty much get those that down really quickly.
Speaker 4 (41:19):
Mom, on the other hand, did not care.
Speaker 7 (41:22):
She needed to know what the hell she was doing, whatever, whatever, whatever.
And so the good news is I saw the value
of both, right. So, I think the truth is that
they never really came that directly at us in terms
of acting. They really didn't. They really didn't talk about it.
(41:43):
I think so. And I think they also respected the
choices that I had made in terms of training.
Speaker 4 (41:48):
Although I had to fight Dad for that first role.
Speaker 7 (41:50):
He said to me when I got the role, when
Paul Newman cast me in the film, he said to me.
Speaker 4 (41:56):
What about school? I said, what about it?
Speaker 7 (41:58):
I will do my school work and I will co
star opposite Joanne Woodward. Enough, I wanted to go to
professional children's school when I was a kid, and they
said no. He said no, you will get an education
like everyone else. In retrospect, I'm really glad that he
said that.
Speaker 1 (42:14):
What about her? What did she want you to know?
Speaker 7 (42:16):
I think they both What they really wanted to instill
was the joy of acting. To never lose that under
any circumstances, to stay true to that pure joy.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
You know, I'm very much I would say more of
your mother's school, maybe for different reasons, where I've worked
with actors who came in and they were, you know,
if not letter perfect, they were pretty damned close day
one of rehearsals, right, Like, there's no discoveries that can
be made. But if you're there, you're several steps down
the board from where I am, and I'm not quite
sure what happens exactly.
Speaker 4 (42:48):
Cat accept that.
Speaker 7 (42:49):
For example, I'm saying here, I take longer usually to
learn text, but then when I do, I don't forget it.
I'm the one who gets the least number of notes.
Speaker 1 (42:59):
Right, I'm the same way once I get I have
a very good memory. But my point is that I
would say to myself, well, I found myself incapable, or
at least I just didn't prefer maybe I was capable
of going into rehearsal and having memorized all my lines
and because what I need, what's missing is what are
you gonna do? Well?
Speaker 7 (43:19):
Look, I worked as a very young actor with Ruth
Gordon and Gar Kannan directing, and they said to me,
you have to have all your lines down before we
start rehearsing.
Speaker 4 (43:27):
And to me, that was torture. It was crazy.
Speaker 7 (43:30):
You know, it was really hard for me to work
that way, but out of respect, I thought, okay, we'll
do that. So it's remarkable when you get to work
with another studio member.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
I mean years ago, I did a little film.
Speaker 7 (43:41):
I don't think anything ever happened with it with our
buddy Stephen Lang and Stephen and I immediately before the
director even got into anything, we start improvising, we're jamming,
we're doing all this stuff. By the time they say action,
we're already into the scene with our own words first.
So being able to am that way again, it's like
playing with musicians, right, Being able to work that way,
(44:04):
that is what I prefer still to this day.
Speaker 2 (44:07):
Now.
Speaker 1 (44:08):
Your sister was very candid. She did not have warm
and glowing and idolatrous things to say about Strasburg. She
said that when she was there, she was kind of like,
maybe gett that. I'm not getting I'm not gonna when
you were in the studio, you were there when Lee
was there, Oh, absolutely, and what was your experience.
Speaker 7 (44:28):
So he taught me an extraordinary lesson very early on,
which was I remember going up to do a scene
and when it was over, I started making all kinds
of excuses about how I didn't have a lot of
time to prepare, and he went ballistic.
Speaker 6 (44:47):
Darling, I don't care if you have two minutes for
twenty minutes work twenty years and my whole body is shaking.
Speaker 4 (44:57):
I'm like leaving my body and it.
Speaker 7 (45:00):
It was extremely valuable because I realized, yeah, you know,
you have to do the work.
Speaker 4 (45:04):
You have to.
Speaker 7 (45:05):
I mean, yes, it's about having fun, but the flip
side of that is also preparation. And this is something
I know al Pacino doesn't credit himself with this, but
that notion of which is very zen by the way of.
Speaker 4 (45:16):
You do the work, you do the work, You do
the work, you do the work, and then you throw
it all away.
Speaker 7 (45:20):
So Lee was incredibly inspiring because he had that laser
beam ability to cut into something. But yeah, he was
a human being. He had favorites. He liked young women
and jeans and you know whatever. Okay, you know he
had that. But he was incredibly insightful and it was
fun to watch some of the really older established actors
(45:44):
turn into kids. I mean, Shelley Winter's turned into a
child in front of Lee. So a lot of people
were terrorized by him. I thought he was quite funny
a lot of the times. I mean I think I
mentioned to you that in his class once he suddenly
listed like thirty books in a row.
Speaker 4 (45:58):
And this is before self.
Speaker 7 (46:00):
Oh, I'm frantically writing down all of his references, and
finally he gets to the end of it and he goes, yeah, button,
He's addressing the whole class. He goes, yeah, but you
don't read anyway, and I burst out laughing. So, yes,
my experience was different. I adored him. I felt honored
to work for him, and you got it and I
got it. And also back to the Anne Frank thing,
(46:21):
was I did it asked backwards out of respect for him,
meaning I wanted to get into the studio as a
member first before I studied with him. So that's what
I did. And so when I went to study with him.
He had not seen me do Anne Frank and I
understood why because of Susan Strasburg playing it and he
didn't want to see it, and I understood that. But
he said to me, Donald, would you bring a scene in?
(46:44):
I said, sure, if that's what you want me to do.
And I remember setting up and doing my thing and whatever,
and when it was over, and I felt pretty good
because I had played it for so long. When it
was over, I said, yeah, so I did my preparation.
He went what I said, I did a preparations said
when I said, well, while I was setting up, he went, ah,
(47:04):
very good. I did not see that. So my experience
with him was quite different. I mean, I'm aware, very
aware because of historical information, particularly when he was younger,
a lot of people had problems with him and issues
and whatever. But for me going to work with him
much later in his life, I think it had softened him.
(47:25):
I mean, he was drinking chocolate milkshakes a lot, you know,
he was. He was a boobie to me in a
lot of ways. You know, I wasn't terrified by him.
Speaker 1 (47:33):
So my last question for you is your parents' legacy,
and that is when you think about your parents, what
comes to mind?
Speaker 4 (47:42):
Great love story?
Speaker 1 (47:43):
Right? Your sister said that she thought your fear she
thought your mother was more talented than your father, and
he kind of knew it.
Speaker 7 (47:51):
Right Well, it frustrated, similar to Paul and Joanne right binga.
But but I think the truth of that. I would
adjust it only slightly by saying, no one could could
touch Annie on the stage. No one, so in that sense, yes,
but when it comes to film, maybe not so much.
Maybe that was Dad's territory more so, that's fair. But
(48:13):
she was so instinctive. I mean, she was incredible. I
remember her saying to her once something about improvisation.
Speaker 4 (48:21):
She just went, I hate that. I hate improvisation.
Speaker 7 (48:24):
I said to her, that's because Anne Jackson, your entire
life is an improv That's how you live your life.
We mere mortals have to actually train in that, but you,
that's how you.
Speaker 1 (48:35):
You look forward to coming into a theater. As I
used to someone said to me, why do you love
the theater? I said, I know exactly what I'm going
to say. I know exactly what you're going to say.
I know exactly how they're going to react. I said,
that's heaven. To me, for I'm a control freak. That's
two and a half hours of just pure pleasure for me. Right,
But it's interesting you say that about the movie and
the stage thing.
Speaker 4 (48:56):
It's slight different set of muscles.
Speaker 7 (48:58):
And then there are those of us who are lucky
enough to be able to adjust and do both, which
has always been for me a joy that I've been
able to jump between big screen, small screen and the stage.
Speaker 1 (49:08):
I think that you know, with your dad especially, I
think to myself, because I'm I'm an enormous fan of
your father, and there are moments of your father's career
that are just so indelible to me, and he's one
of the greatest movie actors of all time. Eli Wallack
was a person who had this power of understanding and
the character and insight and strength, and none of it
(49:30):
was at the expense of the.
Speaker 4 (49:31):
End, right. I think that was to both of them.
They were hugely generous.
Speaker 7 (49:35):
I mean not just as people but also as actors,
amazingly generous.
Speaker 4 (49:41):
And that's something I hope too.
Speaker 7 (49:43):
I hope I've narrowed in big time because it's important.
Speaker 4 (49:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
My thanks to ROBERTA and Catherine Wallack. This episode was
recorded at CDM Studios in New York City. Were produced
by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Maureen Hoben. Our engineer
is Frank Imperial. Our social media manager is Danielle Gingrich.
I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the Thing is brought to you
(50:12):
by iHeart Radio
Host
Alec Baldwin
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