March 25, 2025 • 38 mins
Jay McInerney is a New York Times best selling author known for his breakout novel Bright Lights Big City. He also wrote the screenplay for the 1988 film adaption of Bright Lights Big City and co-wrote the screenplay for the 1998 film Gia, starring Angelina Jolie. In addition to his fiction work, McInerney was the wine columnist for House & Garden magazine, The Wall Street Journal, and currently writes the wine column for Town & Country magazine. His essays on wine have been collected in Bacchus & Me (2000) and A Hedonist in the Cellar (2006) and his book of short stories, titled How It Ended, was named one of the 10 best books of the year by The New York Times in 2009. McInernay has also been honored by the New York Public Library as a “Literary Lion” and won the James Beard MFK Fisher Award for Distinguished Writing.
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a New
York Times bestselling author, screenwriter, and columnist whose breakout novel
Bright Lights Big City inspired a generation of New York
writers and New Yorkers themselves. Jay McInerney is a prolific
(00:24):
writer with eight novels under his belt. He adapted Bright
Light's Big City into the feature films starring Michael J.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Fox in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Mcinnerney has been awarded the Literary Lion by the New
York Public Library and the James Beard MFK. Fisher Award
for Distinguished Writing. In addition to his work as a novelist,
mcinnerney has been the wine columnist for House and Garden,
The Wall Street Journal, and most recently, Town and Country Magazine.
(00:56):
While his novels are synonymous with a glamorous even decade
in New York, mcinnernie did not always live.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
In the city.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
He moved quite frequently during his childhood, and his upbringing
place apart in his writing.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely, they are shaped by their childhood and also,
you know, I think, in my case, especially by their
early adulthood. You know, I was lucky to have had
fairly happy childhood in terms of my relationship with my parents. However,
I moved almost every year that I was growing up,
and that that was difficult because every year I had
to renegotiate social terrain. I had to like get in
(01:33):
fights with kids from yeah, a little fresh set of bullies,
and that undoubtedly marked me. It made me kind of
socially adapt and fascible because I had to be. But
it also made me somewhat withdrawn because I spent a
lot of time, you know, in my room, reading reading
books and writing silly little short stories.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
In terms of bright letsbig city.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
The thing that shaped me also was you know, it's
either Hemingway or many people have said it since, including
Gordon Wish, but he said that the best thing that
can happen to he is the writer, is the worst
thing that can happen to you that doesn't kill you.
And in my case, I lost my dream job at
the New Yorker, my fashion model wife dumped me in
(02:18):
very short order, and then my mother died of cancer
all within the space. She died a year I was
about twenty five, And you know, I mean those are
three really bad things to happen. But I think if
those three things hadn't happened, I might have cruised through
life fairly easily. I would have become a moderately good writer.
(02:42):
But you know, my first book does have a lot
of pain, and because there was a lot of bad
things that happened to me in my early twenties, and
that all went into the book. And even though I
like to think and people tell me that it's a
very funny book, and in many ways, there's also this
underlying current of pain that courses through it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know, I'm going to read the book again because
when I read the book, you're you're young, I'm young
now sixty sexs. I'm like, I'm afraid to read it.
I'm being laughing, I'm crying at the same time.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I reread it recently because someone offered me a fair
amount of money to use a quote out of it,
and I didn't. I didn't recognize the quote, so I
reread the book. What it turns out they took the
quote out of the movie, luckily, but luckily I wrote
the screenplay, so I still got the money.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You still got.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
But rereading the book, I was kind of impressed, and
I was also kind of daunted because I just thought
I could only have written that book then. You know,
I think there's a certain music of the spheres that
you hear when you're in your twenties too, that you
just that becomes inaudible later. That was a book of
my twenties by Lepswick. City was pre internet, pre digital,
pre you know. I mean sometimes I wonder how we
(03:49):
found ourselves back then. You know, how do we find
our friends? You know, it's just we meet them somewhere.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
You have a Yeah, you have a rendezvous and you
hope that they show up.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I guess, oh, I net working friends, I think is
much smaller than Yeah, you didn't. You didn't have the
facility to keep up with all those people, you know.
I read that book years ago, and I was addicted
to cocaine. I was a cocaine addict. I got forty
years sober coming February. I don't talk about that much
on the record, And when I read that book, I'm
in that pain of lugging myself home at the four
(04:19):
o'clock in the morning, trying to sleep.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
When I think of it now, I just absolutely Shulder,
and it's my friend friend friend of mine says, you know,
he thinks everybody in life gets a bathtub full of
cocaine and a swimming pool full of vodka, and after that,
you better saw.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's your limit. That's pretty funny now.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
But when when you write as other people have observed, no,
this is not my observation. You wrote it in the
second person. People have commented about that a lot. Why
what propelled.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You, Well, what propelled me was the birth of the
thing really is. So one night I was you recognize
this type of night. It was like three thirty in
the morning, and I was, God, I think I was.
I wasn't a club that no longer just obviously, but
maybe the world. And I'd gone with a friend and
he disappeared with a girl, and my girl had rejected me.
(05:07):
And so I'm standing in front of the mirror in
the bathroom and the coc is just run out, and
I remember saying into the mirror, You're not the kind
of guy who'd beat a place like this at this
time of the morning, but here you are. And I
was certainly try and you weren't that kind of guy
I want. I was, no, but I told me something.
(05:28):
I was a good Catholic boy. I didn't know what
was I doing snorting coke at three thirty in the morning.
So I finally made it home that night. I had
to walk up to East fifth Street because I'd run
out of money. And I wrote that very sentenced down
on a scrap of paper and I stuck in the
desk drawer and forgot about it. And about six months
later I had submitted a story to George Plimpton at
(05:50):
the Parish Rebume and he actually called me on the phone.
And I'm not going to try and imitate him. You
probably could be. He had this pretty fluty patrician boye
hes d. He liked this story, but did I have
anything else? So I go through my desk and I'm
like going crazy, and everything I read that I had
written in last year seemed like really imitative and derivative,
(06:12):
like here was my Ambdie story, here was my Robert
Stone story, here's my Raven Carver story. And then I
came on this piece of paper. You're not the kind
of guy whould be a place like this at this
time in the morning, and I thought, wow, I said,
you know, that's how we talked to ourselves. We talked
to ourselves in the second person. We don't say I idiot,
We say you idiot.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So that night I sat down, I wrote. I wrote
the first chapter of Bright Lights, Big City, basically, and
the next morning I called up George a Paris review office,
and I said, I got one. I got one, and
I sent it to them and they promptly published it.
And I subsequently thought, you know that the story is
not done. And I also it created a nice stir.
(06:54):
I mean back when literary buzz was something other than
on Instagram and it was real and yeah, and so
I thought, you know, I should just keep going with
the story, because I said to myself, this guy is
in obvious pain. What's wrong with him? Something bad has
happened to him, but it doesn't come into the particularly
into the story. And so so I started writing a novel,
which I finished and I finished the first draft in
(07:17):
six weeks. And my editor was Gary Fisketjohn of Random House,
and about halfway through my writing process, I told him
I was writing a novel and he said, well, I
hope to god it isn't in the second person, And
that almost stopped me cold. So then I went back
and I tried writing in the first and the third,
and something just drained out of the story. It wasn't
(07:37):
as funny, it wasn't as self conscious, and so I
stuck with it. And there were one or two reviewers
who thought I was crazy, but there were quite a
few others that liked it, and it subsequently sold hundreds
of thousands of copies, so I guess readers weren't put
off by it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But the guy is for a good part of the book.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The guy is high, he's like you know, so he's
self conscious, he's in a slightly altered state.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But he's in pain.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
In my mind, this is what I get from other
things you've written and my sense of comments you've made
in interviews. What I see about you is that the
guy that has his pain, but it's always trying to
overcome it. There's an emotional sturdiness to you as a person,
and in the books there seems to be they don't
stop fighting, they try not.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
To give up and succom It's not Bukowski.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well, I went through some crises this past year and
my wife said to me fairly recently, she said, I
can't believe I have upbeat and optimistic. You are a medalists,
And I said, but what would be the point of
letting it defeat you and being.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Down being of the health issues? Yeah? Yeah, it's like, you.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Know, I like to think I have a positive attitude
even when it seems ridiculous. You just lose that additional
peace of mind that you might preserve.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You're writing and you're submitting, and it's journalism or whatever,
you and essays and things. The guy that you're editor.
How do you end up with him? You will him
before bride lights? How do you get him?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I met him at Williams College when we were both there,
and we initially pursuing the same woman who was a
Wellesley transfer student, and we had a big feud about that,
you know, And the first time I ever really met him,
he threw a cigarette into my.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Beer piece, and so it was love.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I went over to try to fight him, and we
were pulled off each other. And then somehow the next
thing I knew we were friends. And we took a
class on James Joyce's Ulysses together and that was sort
of a bonding experience. And then I remember that I
gave him one of the first hardcover books I ever
bought was Raymond Carvers Will You Please Be Quiet?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Please?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
And I wanted so I was finished with it. I
thought it was extraordinary, and I lent it to him,
and it was kind of wonderful because he ended up
being Raymond Carver's editor down the road. But in the
meantime we became best friends. We when we graduated, we
drove across the country together in a beat up Volkswagen
and spent about three months on the road until we
(10:06):
couldn't find work, and eventually parted, but he remained my
best friend. And then he went to work for Random House.
So he was the logical person to go to when
I had a book to publish. He was ready to
throw out if they all all my books so far,
you know, And it was. It's an interesting relationship because
on the one hand, it's great to have your best
friend editing your work, and on the other hand, it
(10:28):
makes for some tense kind of sibling rivalry, you know, yeah,
very honest, I mean, to the point that he would
sometimes write in the margins like the exclamation mark and
you know, just a little discouraging.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But usually when I finished a book, he would come
to wherever I was living and just camp out for
about a week and we would just go over pretty
much line by line, and sometimes we would fight terribly
about about stuff. I mean, he wasn't sure by the
second person at first, and I'm really glad I held
my ground on that. And I have to say his
name is Gary Fisk John by the way, But I
(11:03):
have to say that the thing I give him credit
for is that he always said in the end, it's
your name on the book. So apparently I had the
veto power, although it's hard sometimes not to feel like
I was the naughty student and he was the teacher.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I was contacted by Library of America to go to
the synagogue on Fifth Avenue when Read had a presentation
myself and two other people, John Rothman, and one of
the to read from Roth's bibliography. So we go there
and I get an email from Philip Roth. It says,
thank you so much. I'm really very pleased that you're
doing this. So we go and do it and works
pretty well. I mean, it's great stuff to read, and
(11:38):
I'm a pretty good reader in public that way at
that time where the accents are and he writes me
again he says, I heard it went great, Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Again.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I'm very and so I stopped and I go, let
me ask you a question. What do you think about
me writing? I'm writing a memoir and I want to
write it an the third person so I can protect
some people, as I did in my divorce book. Roth
writes me back, and he goes, first of all, and
there was a capitalizations. Frampis first of all, there is
no such thing as a memoir in the third person.
(12:06):
You must put yourself out there. You spare no one,
particularly yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And it goes on and on and oh he didn't,
he didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But I have written books. I swear to God, this
is funny. I'm not that I dwelled on this city point.
I was even aware until now that I've written books.
Why we write sentences in that second person. I did
that for Runs, and I got attacked by the editors
for that.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It's an easy thing to fall into because it's a
mode that we often use internally in conversation. And yeah,
and in conversation, and sometimes I've seen it where other
people will slide into the second person.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
When when they're writing.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I got some grief for it at the time, not
from regular readers, you know, from critics who wondered if
it was a legitimate mode.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
But I'm being glib here somewhat when I say that
your life obviously changes after that book.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
My life changed almost overnight. I mean, nothing happened overnight
back then, because you know, when you publish a book,
I mean, even a word of mouth takes time to spread.
And it was a while before much was written about
Bret Let's Big City. And very quickly it sold out
its first printing, and it took about six seven weeks
to reprint it, and we were afraid it might die then,
(13:19):
because you know, that's a long time.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
People step at me.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, but it did, and you know, and the second
pretty sold out very quickly, and the thre and suddenly,
you know, by three or four months after it was published,
I was I was getting kind of New York.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Famous, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And I remember, I mean one of the first indications
I had of this was I was trying to get in.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Remember the Palladium opened a long time ago, now dormitory.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, so a bunch of us went to try and
get in. It was a huge line, and I just said,
oh the hell with this, my friend Morgan intric and said, no,
wait a minute, and he manages to get up to
the bouncer and he says, that's Jane mcinherney over there,
And the bouncer immediately says, oh, well, why didn't you
say so, come on in?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And that was this way, mister man.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That was the first time I thought, wow, maybe my
life is changing, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Girls and all of it. Yeah, all of it, I mean,
And it.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Was yeah, I mean, and for a relatively shy person
who was just out of graduate school, it was kind of.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
How old when the book came out twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I'd been to graduate school, I'd spent two years in
Japan teaching English.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
What did teaching English and Japan do to feed your
career as a writer? If anything, just.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Gave me time to write because I only had to
teach you about ten hours a week. I mean, I
was kind of fascinated by Japanese culture and so on.
But there came a point where I realized that staying
there was was not going to engage me in my
own culture. It was going to, if anything, divorced me
from my own culture. And so so at that point
I moved back to New York with my girlfriend, who
was a fashion model, and for me, everything was about
(14:57):
New York was just so new and amazing, and it
was almost like I was a foreigner coming to discover
this new country, and I just found New York extraordinary,
and I just thought I could write about this. I
could write about New York. And not many people, you know,
since I don't know since Sallenger, not that many people had.
I remember Tom Wolf coming up to me in nineteen
(15:18):
eighty six and he said, that was brilliant that you
wrote about New York. He said, I'm going to do
the same thing. And then, of course he wrote Bumpire
of the Vanities, which turned out to be a pretty
good book, and then there was a whole slow of
New York novels. But I remember Jason Epstein, who was
a vice president of Random House, who was kind enough
to take my book on. He took me out to
(15:38):
lunch and he said, first of all, nobody your age
reads this is nineteen eighty three. And then he said,
and secondly, nobody cares about New York.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So he was He said, he wrote coming out of
the seventies, which is yeah, he's likely New York.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
He said, he wrote a really good book, but he said,
I just want to tamp down your expectations. And you know,
allegedly nobody wants to read about New York. But three
years later every other work was set in New York City.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Author and columnist Jay mcinherney. If you enjoy conversations about
the New York literary scene, check out my episode with
Tina Brown.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
A great editor isn't an autocrat. I mean, you have
to have a vision in the same way the director
has to have a vision of a movie, and you
have to have a worldview too. I mean, I knew
what I wanted to do with Vanity Fair. I wanted
to combine the elegance and glamour of the magazine, of
the famous magazine in the twenties and thirties, with some
of that narrative gristle of journalism that had then become
(16:38):
the sort of defining feature of the great magazines of
them the seventies and eighties, like Rolling Stone, like New
York Magazine. So I wanted to modernize that formula.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
If you like.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
To hear more of my conversation with Tina Brown, go
to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the Break, JAYE
mcinherney talks about his involvement in the film adaptation of
Bright Lights, Big City and helping Michael J. Fox prepare
for the role. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's
(17:18):
the Thing. The nineteen eighty eight film adaptation of Bright Lights,
Big City starring Michael J. Fox, premiere to mixed reviews.
I was curious about Jay mcinnerney's work on the film
and how he felt about the portrayal of the main character,
Jamie Conway, who was based on Jay himself.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Michael and I get along tremendously well. In fact, we
used to stay out till three. I don't know how
I made it's this set every morning, because we used
to stay out till three in the morning, doing snorting
coke and doing all the stuff that you do in
the method actors. I first learned when I was hanging
out with Michael. First of all, the power of a persona,
and his persona was Alex Keaton, and his millions of
(18:00):
fans wanted him to be Alex Keaton, and they didn't
want to see him with a koch straw up his nose.
And my smaller legion of fans had no interest in
seeing Alex Keaton playing me mirror. Yeah, I mean they
had no interest. And so that that was there was
a disconnect right there, getting from the start. And then
(18:21):
also I think you know, I mean Sidney Pollack was
the producer, and he once said to me, he said,
why do all these people want to get into all
these nightclubs? And I just said, oh man, we don't
really understand what's going on here, do we. And and
you know, the director, James Ridges, he was, you know,
he was aging out at that point this kind of material.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And Cowboys completely different kind of movie. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, So I mean, look, I wrote the screenplay, but
honestly they shouldn't let me write write the screenplay because
I didn't know that much about movies at the time.
Screenplays are very different than, as you know, than novels.
You know, it's like writing a novel is a hosting party.
Write a screenplay is like catering party, you know, And
you have to have a different language, and you have
(19:03):
to realize that movies are made out of images, you know,
they're not made out of words.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I think Mammot taught me this, or I observe this
about Mammoth, and he confirmed with me in whatever language,
I'd done a few Mammot films I did.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Glen Garry, obviously, I did the state name, remember that one.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And when I was around him and you could talk
to him, he's so intimidating. He's this amazing talent and
you know, universally admired in the in the in the
acting world, you know, in the acting world.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And so, I mean, I really believe that only.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
On is probably one of the five best players I've
ever read in my life for an actor.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well, Glenn Garry, Glenn Ross is not so shabby either.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well, no, but he won the Pulitzer Prize. That my
scene wasn't even in there. So when he puts my
scene in there, I called him and I go, why
are you taking your Pulitzer Prize winning book and changing
it for the movie business, Because because I never believe
these guys had a criminal nature, I need someone to
come in and turn the screws tighter so they commit
a crime. And he said, I wrote this person that
you're going to play to come in and to push
(19:58):
them towards the criminality. Now he writes, Bob Enters, Bob,
you're probably wondering why I called you well here today. No,
his old idea was, what's the point in the screenplay
of any stage directions, I'm going to describe the room
because in the book, that's the only chance you're going
to get see the room.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
If I tell you.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What's in the room, if I accent something, if I
accent their behavior, his hand shaking, he's scratching his crotch.
Whatever you write, I'm responsible for that. And then a
screenplay or a teleplay, it's a director's going to come
in and just do whatever they want to do. And man,
it's so spare in that way, so spare. When I
saw that movie, I thought thought that those people lost
(20:34):
that idea, Like there wasn't enough of the book and
the kind of I don't want to say grit, but
just the sense of the book in the movie.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, you know, I think back to The Graduate because
The Graduate actually was a very successful novel until my
assault Mike Nichols get a hold of it, and Mike
Nichols so kind of reinvented the book, you know, and
he had this great underwater scenes, you know, in the
swimming pool and you know, the scene in the closet
(21:04):
I mean, but he found a visual language to interpret
what was largely a novel of dialogue. And people don't
even remember that there was a book called The Graduate Now,
So I mean, it's not the worst thing in the
world for me that Bright Lights the book is better
than Bright Lights the movie. You know, I wonder if
we'd had a Robert town as a screenwriter, and if
we'd had Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise for a year
(21:28):
was supposed to be the star. Tom Cruise came and
spent three four days and nights with me, following me
around so that he could model.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
The character on me. It was very weird. He kept
calling me sir, which was very peculiar. I mean, I
was like a year older than he was.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
But he finally, you know, it got delayed and he
finally left to do Top Gun, which I think was
a good career choice.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Tom.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Yeah, I mean so strange. He was such a such
a polite, respectful kid, as I say, only a year
younger than me. But you know, Michael, there was a
mismatch there in the in the casting, I think, and
uh not that Michael isn't a great actor, because he is,
but taking on an iconic TV role and embodying it.
(22:14):
It's it's really hard then to you know, to prode,
to blame, to get the audiences have known what he was.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Anyway, after you launch the book comes the imitators and
or people say we're we're kind of I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
See imitating or piggybacking.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
When but brettyston Ellis comes and does his book, which
she said he put a character in there based on
you in Lessons Are was that true?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And later in one of his later books called Lunar Park,
there's a character named Jay McInerney no like, who gets
drunk and falls.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Into the pool.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Okay, well who starts cocop a Porsche you know? Okay, yeah,
I never did those two things.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, no, I don't. I doubt it. But Brent's book was.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Very different than mine, and it was it was it
was very dark, and it was very sort of His
own was neolistic and his pros was really stripped down
and bear His big influence was shown didion. And when
I first read his novel before it came out, Morgan
Intric and his editor were seeing to me, I'm going
to promote this as the West Coast by lets big
city and so at first I was inclined to not
(23:18):
like the guy at all. But then we did a
seminar together, and I read the book and I thought,
you know, he's really talented, and we're doing two completely
different things. Although it was very easy for the press
to lump us together because young people drugs, you know,
that kind of nightclubs, that kind of thing. But I
befriended Brett in part because I wanted to warn him
what was likely to come his way, in other words,
(23:40):
that his life was going to be turned completely upside down.
I mean, it has actors a lot, but it doesn't
usually happen to writers. And it did happen to me,
and it did happen to him in a way that
it hadn't since you know, Mailer and Capodi and Vidal,
that generation. And I'm still good friends with Brett, and
you know, in some ways, you know, we haven't experien
(24:00):
it's in common that not many people have for that period.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Sure, author and columnist Jay McInerney. If you're enjoying this conversation,
tell a friend and be sure to follow. Here's the
thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you'll get
your podcasts When We Come Back. Jay McInerney details the
(24:24):
story behind his screenplay for the nineteen ninety eight film Gia,
which launched the career of one of the biggest stars
in Hollywood, Angelina Jolee.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Ten years after the release of the film Bright Lights,
Big City, Jay McInerney penned the screenplay for Gia, which
launched the career of Angelina Jolia In nineteen ninety eight,
Despite having two of his scripts made into movies with
big stars, mcinnernie chose not to continue with a career
in screenwriting. I wanted to know if he was ever
(25:10):
tempted at the time to move to Hollywood and pursue
writing for film full time.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
So I did some specs screenplays, and I got my
price up pretty high, and it was a nice way
to make money. The only full length screenplay wrote that
really got produced was Gea, which was what I remember.
It's HBO's first movie. Because the HBO, remember, was just
a recycling bin. Basically, they took like Red October and
then they just put on TV and that was what
(25:39):
they did. But then they came to me and they said, Hey,
we've got this idea to make original movies, and how'd
you like to do the first one about Gia Kuranci.
And I just said, oh, this is perfect, like drugs
eighties models.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Let's call Jay McInerney. I mean, what else would you do? Right?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And so I said to them, Look, I could write
a good screenplay, I think, But I said, it's all
going to depend on the casting. I said, you have
to find a woman who is utterly charismatic. Because Gia
never said anything memorable in her entire life. I mean,
there's not a single line that anybody can remember that
she said. But you know, luckily they cast it perfectly.
(26:18):
I mean, Angelina Jolie was extraordinary, and she that was
her big break.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
She made the movie, and he.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Made the career of one of the biggest movie stars
in history. But in that way that you've known, I
mean as whether as friends or partners, if you will,
You've known a lot of famous women. I used to
know fleetingly Marla Hanson, right, I think it was after
she was attacked.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I knew after she was attacked.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
We went out together for four years. Well story, Marla
Hanson was a small town girl, Texas, came to the
city got some modeling jobs, and she got it and
rented an apartment. The landlord was very invasive, and she
kept turning down his advances and he fired finally high
two men to slash her face. You know, I mean,
(27:03):
so I talk about symbolism, you know, all the kind
of mom a model whose faces slashed. And I met
her after the attack as well. Keith McNally used to
have these dinners at to Nelson. He said, you know,
when he come to I think you'd really like this
girl that's there. And I was kind of fascinated to
meet Marla Hansome because she was she didn't really cover
(27:24):
the post like seven times by then, and and everybody
would liked Marlae because she said, you know, I'm undeterred
and I'm going to keep modeling and I love New York.
And so I found her well, first of all, I
found her really good looking, and secondly, I found her face.
Even afterwards she was she was very beautiful. And so
we started dating after that, and and then unfortunately then
(27:47):
I became more of a tabloid fixture because I was
dating a tabloid fixture. We went about four weeks dodging
the paparazzi, and then finally this, you know, one one
of them said to me, look, j just give me
a pictures. Put the five thousand dollars with you.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Whatever it was. Then I'll never forget.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I was dating a woman of this many many years ago,
many years ago. I was dating a woman who was
a very famous movie actress. And we're there and she
was divorcing her husband, and she said, I don't want
to hurt my husband's feelings. I really like him and
we're friends and we're going to get divorced. And so
when we leave this hotel, I'm going to go before
you where you go before me?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I want us walking out the hotel.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, that's it was the first time I was ever
introduced to that, Like this kid from Massive People Long,
I'm sitting there going you want me to what you
want me to go out ahead of you?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Because oh I get, I get, I get, And I.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Never knew that I did just sneak around because of
who you are and the cameras and stuff, that's what
we see.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
So we did that. I went at the back door
and she went out the front door and got her picture.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Taken whatever, and you know my education from back then
about how you try to manage your personal life in
public like that.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
It's really tough.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
The ones I see that are the most successful movie stars,
you don't know anything about them.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
You really don't the most I agree, But a little
bit about that.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
By the way, we went to Barnes and Noble on
seventeenth Street at Union Square, you know the area.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Whatever macinn Earn do they have is in softcover. Is
there any place I can get hardcover books of the books?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Oh? I want Bright Lights, Big City.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well the problem is the only Right Lights was published
in trade paperback, and I was upset about that. But
my editor said, look, this is the this is the
way to reach people your own age, she said, because
hardcover books are expensive, which is true. I didn't buy
many when I was back. I try to only buy
hardcover now. Yeah me, oh, me too. So there's there's
really no American hardcover by Latswig City. All the other
(29:36):
books are in hardcover I want to get, But the
problem is the publishers. They only do one run of
hardcover and then it all goes into the So what
are you working on now? I just sold a book
to Kannaff, my longtime publisher, and it's called See You
on the Other Side. I started writing it during the pandemic,
and it's and it starts in the pandemic. But where
(29:57):
the title came from was that I walking past a
coffee shop at that time, and it was right after
everything had been closed and someone had slapped a sign
on the windows I'd see you on the other Side,
meaning like, what week, two weeks will be out of
this mass, except it was.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
More like a year and a half.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
And then one of the main characters in the books
book dies at the end of the book, and I
suddenly when I was rereading the books, I was searching
for a title and I saw this that I had
written this down about this sign. I thought, God, that's
that's a good title for the book. The bad news
is that it's it's the fourth novel in a series
of novels about these characters, Kareen and Russell. Kareen and
(30:42):
Russell Callaway, who when we first meet them, you really
glamorous New York couple, not wealthy, but you know she's
a stockbroker and he's an assistant editor, book editor, and
he remains an editor throughout the series, but Brightest Falls
was going to be a one off. And then the
crisis in that book was the was the stock market crash,
and Russell had actually tried to perform a leverage buyout
(31:05):
on his publishing, you know, so that was that's kind
of thing that happened in the eighties. And and then
nine to eleven came along, and I just for live me.
I couldn't think, how am I going to you know,
take this into account as a writer. And then I finally,
wait a minute, what if I just take these set
of characters and just have them react to this event.
And I really kind of like the characters, and you know,
(31:28):
they're also going through marital crises and so on. And
before I knew it, you know, I'd written a third one,
which is set around the time of the crash of
the two thousand and eight and Obamas and Obama's election,
you know, very big deals. So this seems to be
partly a way for me of following a relatively heavily
married couple, which you know, someone who's been married four times.
(31:49):
It's like it's like something that I am passing. I'm
fascinated by it, but also registering the kind of crises
that New York City has gone through in my lifetime.
So this is the very last one for but it's
now a tet trilogy.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well it's it's reminding me somewhat. I mean, are very
distinctive writers. But and she reminded me someone of Richard
Nelson's Apple Family Stories, those four plays he did where
they were all seated around talking about AIDS and we cut.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
To nine to eleven.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I mean, he's got these four tableaus and they're just
talking about what's going on, and then their relationships and
the wife goes on it gets to words and becomes
a lesbian and her lesbian girlfriend comes into chapter four
and blah blah blah. I mean, Richard Nelson, who I worship.
I worship him. But where did you meet? And Annhurst
is my wife. I met her in nineteen eighty six
at a nightclub called MK. So she was with a
(32:38):
friend of hers. I was sitting with Bretty Sinellis, Tama
Jenowitz and.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Myself of all things.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I mean, we didn't hang out that much with Tama,
but that night we were and this friend VERSI, you're
gonna meet these guys.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
They're like the coolest.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Guys in all of New York, and so In came
over and introduced herself, and you know, I knew her
last name.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
She's the granddaughter of William Randall. First.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yes, oh, and Marla Hanson was at the table as well,
So I couldn't like flirt openly.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
My former girlfriend, my future yeah, yeah, my imitators.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
But we definitely hit it off and there was electricity
there and so we just kind of stayed in touch.
And when I broke up with Marla, finally a couple
of years later, I called her up and I said, yeah,
it's broke up in Marla.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's really sad.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
But I was thinking, like, yeah, not so sad, and
she said, oh shit, And I said what she said,
I just got engaged.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And it was like, yeah, and we have a problem. Yeah,
I have a brother.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And it just kind of we just kept missing the boat,
including on September tenth, two thousand and one, we had
a date for the first time in many years.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
We were both free. So we have a date.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
We go to we got to a restaurant and so
then I, you know, I invite her back to my
apartment since we were downtown, and she says, tell you what.
She said, let's not rush things. So let's do this
again tomorrow. And she said, you might have it, you know,
give me a data, maybe we'll have a different result.
And I said, you're sure, sure, So so off she
went uptown. I went downtown and the next morning was
(34:08):
September eleventh, and she was trying to get to Long
Island where her kids were. The phones weren't working, and
you know, so it was another four or five years
before we got together. But now we've been married seventeen
years and long time, long time.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
But whenever I've met her, fleeting Lee, I don't know
her that well, but whenever I've met her, what a lovely.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Woman she has. So you're adding a tetralogy, you're putting
the new.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Additional latest, and that'll come out, I guess next year.
And yeah, I'm just editing it at the moment with
my new editor. His name is Errol McDonald, And yeah,
I mean, I'm glad to be back in the game again.
I also wrote a memoir during the pandemic. I showed
it to my agent, who feels like it's about seventeen
lawsuits waiting to happen.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
So we've we've got to free things that.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, I mean, I mean the funny thing is might
be some tips on it.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
My story is about Mick Jagg and Carrie Fisher are
no problem because they're famous, but it's it's like the
wives and girlfriends and all and brothers and you know they.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Can't wait to read it.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Make sure you know those guys are Those guys might
sue me, those girls might sue me.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So it's going to come out at all or not.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Well, yeah, well as su as I published this novel,
then I'll figure out and I'll figure out the memoir.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
But the first I mean, the people who have read
it tell me it's really fun. A memoir from you.
I'm dying to read.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Last thing I'll say is in your books the word
bright appears three times. Yeah, and you seem to me
like a very buoyant person. We didn't even get into
the fact that you were the wine columnist for the
Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
How did that happen? I mean, other than you being
a fan of wine.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Well, I started with you know, I just I love
I mean, my friends know this. It's a hobby of mine.
I love wine. And so my friend Dominque Browning took
over her House in Garden magazine, and she wanted to
have a wine column, but she thought wine writing was boring,
so she she called me up and and I said, look,
I don't know enough. I don't know enough to call him.
And she said no, but that's just the way, she said,
(36:04):
you're you're a good writer, and you get enthusiasm. She said,
just write like your one chapter ahead of the textbook
of the class in the textbook, and write like a
novelist right about the characters who make women. And so
so I did this for a few years, and House
Garden eventually folded, and then the Wall Street Journal called
me up and said, hey, you want to be our
wine critic.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Thought, well, we'll.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Street Journal met it's but you know the conic why
their cultural coverage is quite good. And yeah, so I
did a lot of things about the journal. I did
that for four years. I like a lot of things
about the Journal too, not so much their editorial page.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
But well, as I said to some friends of mine,
I would come across movies that I didn't feel somewhat
needed to be remade or maybe them, here's an opportunity
to take a story and tell the modern angle on
that story Looking for Mister Goodbar was one I wanted
to remake just to direct or produce or what you
would say the female sexuality and how women are played
(37:02):
with an exploited now or not, or how they do
the exploiting whatever the female psychology is about sex and
do mister Goodbar again and contemporize it. And the other
movie that's Bernie to be remade is Bright Lights, Big City.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Well it's it's supposedly in the works. But you know
how these things work. You know, there maye when we're dead.
There are fifty people who have to all agree at
the same time, you know. But I have a conversation
every month or two. It's gotta happen with the guys. Ready,
I'm ready to We finally got to pay the lead role.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Who is as seeking as you are seeking? You are
seeking many things. Oh, I'll take that. I like that.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
My thanks to novelist, columnist and screenwriter Jay McInerney. This
episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City.
We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin.
Our engineer is Frank Imperry. Our social media manager is
Danielle Gingrich, I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought
(38:06):
to you by iHeart Radio
This is Alec Baldwin and you're listening to Here's the
Thing from iHeart Radio. My guest today is a New
York Times bestselling author, screenwriter, and columnist whose breakout novel
Bright Lights Big City inspired a generation of New York
writers and New Yorkers themselves. Jay McInerney is a prolific
(00:24):
writer with eight novels under his belt. He adapted Bright
Light's Big City into the feature films starring Michael J.
Speaker 2 (00:32):
Fox in nineteen eighty eight.
Speaker 1 (00:34):
Mcinnerney has been awarded the Literary Lion by the New
York Public Library and the James Beard MFK. Fisher Award
for Distinguished Writing. In addition to his work as a novelist,
mcinnerney has been the wine columnist for House and Garden,
The Wall Street Journal, and most recently, Town and Country Magazine.
(00:56):
While his novels are synonymous with a glamorous even decade
in New York, mcinnernie did not always live.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
In the city.
Speaker 1 (01:04):
He moved quite frequently during his childhood, and his upbringing
place apart in his writing.
Speaker 3 (01:10):
Yeah, absolutely, they are shaped by their childhood and also,
you know, I think, in my case, especially by their
early adulthood. You know, I was lucky to have had
fairly happy childhood in terms of my relationship with my parents. However,
I moved almost every year that I was growing up,
and that that was difficult because every year I had
to renegotiate social terrain. I had to like get in
(01:33):
fights with kids from yeah, a little fresh set of bullies,
and that undoubtedly marked me. It made me kind of
socially adapt and fascible because I had to be. But
it also made me somewhat withdrawn because I spent a
lot of time, you know, in my room, reading reading
books and writing silly little short stories.
Speaker 2 (01:56):
In terms of bright letsbig city.
Speaker 3 (01:58):
The thing that shaped me also was you know, it's
either Hemingway or many people have said it since, including
Gordon Wish, but he said that the best thing that
can happen to he is the writer, is the worst
thing that can happen to you that doesn't kill you.
And in my case, I lost my dream job at
the New Yorker, my fashion model wife dumped me in
(02:18):
very short order, and then my mother died of cancer
all within the space. She died a year I was
about twenty five, And you know, I mean those are
three really bad things to happen. But I think if
those three things hadn't happened, I might have cruised through
life fairly easily. I would have become a moderately good writer.
(02:42):
But you know, my first book does have a lot
of pain, and because there was a lot of bad
things that happened to me in my early twenties, and
that all went into the book. And even though I
like to think and people tell me that it's a
very funny book, and in many ways, there's also this
underlying current of pain that courses through it.
Speaker 1 (03:00):
You know, I'm going to read the book again because
when I read the book, you're you're young, I'm young
now sixty sexs. I'm like, I'm afraid to read it.
I'm being laughing, I'm crying at the same time.
Speaker 3 (03:09):
I reread it recently because someone offered me a fair
amount of money to use a quote out of it,
and I didn't. I didn't recognize the quote, so I
reread the book. What it turns out they took the
quote out of the movie, luckily, but luckily I wrote
the screenplay, so I still got the money.
Speaker 2 (03:25):
You still got.
Speaker 3 (03:27):
But rereading the book, I was kind of impressed, and
I was also kind of daunted because I just thought
I could only have written that book then. You know,
I think there's a certain music of the spheres that
you hear when you're in your twenties too, that you
just that becomes inaudible later. That was a book of
my twenties by Lepswick. City was pre internet, pre digital,
pre you know. I mean sometimes I wonder how we
(03:49):
found ourselves back then. You know, how do we find
our friends? You know, it's just we meet them somewhere.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
You have a Yeah, you have a rendezvous and you
hope that they show up.
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I guess, oh, I net working friends, I think is
much smaller than Yeah, you didn't. You didn't have the
facility to keep up with all those people, you know.
I read that book years ago, and I was addicted
to cocaine. I was a cocaine addict. I got forty
years sober coming February. I don't talk about that much
on the record, And when I read that book, I'm
in that pain of lugging myself home at the four
(04:19):
o'clock in the morning, trying to sleep.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
I couldn't.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
When I think of it now, I just absolutely Shulder,
and it's my friend friend friend of mine says, you know,
he thinks everybody in life gets a bathtub full of
cocaine and a swimming pool full of vodka, and after that,
you better saw.
Speaker 2 (04:35):
That's your limit. That's pretty funny now.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
But when when you write as other people have observed, no,
this is not my observation. You wrote it in the
second person. People have commented about that a lot. Why
what propelled.
Speaker 3 (04:46):
You, Well, what propelled me was the birth of the
thing really is. So one night I was you recognize
this type of night. It was like three thirty in
the morning, and I was, God, I think I was.
I wasn't a club that no longer just obviously, but
maybe the world. And I'd gone with a friend and
he disappeared with a girl, and my girl had rejected me.
(05:07):
And so I'm standing in front of the mirror in
the bathroom and the coc is just run out, and
I remember saying into the mirror, You're not the kind
of guy who'd beat a place like this at this
time of the morning, but here you are. And I
was certainly try and you weren't that kind of guy
I want. I was, no, but I told me something.
(05:28):
I was a good Catholic boy. I didn't know what
was I doing snorting coke at three thirty in the morning.
So I finally made it home that night. I had
to walk up to East fifth Street because I'd run
out of money. And I wrote that very sentenced down
on a scrap of paper and I stuck in the
desk drawer and forgot about it. And about six months
later I had submitted a story to George Plimpton at
(05:50):
the Parish Rebume and he actually called me on the phone.
And I'm not going to try and imitate him. You
probably could be. He had this pretty fluty patrician boye
hes d. He liked this story, but did I have
anything else? So I go through my desk and I'm
like going crazy, and everything I read that I had
written in last year seemed like really imitative and derivative,
(06:12):
like here was my Ambdie story, here was my Robert
Stone story, here's my Raven Carver story. And then I
came on this piece of paper. You're not the kind
of guy whould be a place like this at this
time in the morning, and I thought, wow, I said,
you know, that's how we talked to ourselves. We talked
to ourselves in the second person. We don't say I idiot,
We say you idiot.
Speaker 2 (06:30):
You know.
Speaker 3 (06:31):
So that night I sat down, I wrote. I wrote
the first chapter of Bright Lights, Big City, basically, and
the next morning I called up George a Paris review office,
and I said, I got one. I got one, and
I sent it to them and they promptly published it.
And I subsequently thought, you know that the story is
not done. And I also it created a nice stir.
(06:54):
I mean back when literary buzz was something other than
on Instagram and it was real and yeah, and so
I thought, you know, I should just keep going with
the story, because I said to myself, this guy is
in obvious pain. What's wrong with him? Something bad has
happened to him, but it doesn't come into the particularly
into the story. And so so I started writing a novel,
which I finished and I finished the first draft in
(07:17):
six weeks. And my editor was Gary Fisketjohn of Random House,
and about halfway through my writing process, I told him
I was writing a novel and he said, well, I
hope to god it isn't in the second person, And
that almost stopped me cold. So then I went back
and I tried writing in the first and the third,
and something just drained out of the story. It wasn't
(07:37):
as funny, it wasn't as self conscious, and so I
stuck with it. And there were one or two reviewers
who thought I was crazy, but there were quite a
few others that liked it, and it subsequently sold hundreds
of thousands of copies, so I guess readers weren't put
off by it.
Speaker 2 (07:51):
But the guy is for a good part of the book.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
The guy is high, he's like you know, so he's
self conscious, he's in a slightly altered state.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
But he's in pain.
Speaker 1 (08:01):
In my mind, this is what I get from other
things you've written and my sense of comments you've made
in interviews. What I see about you is that the
guy that has his pain, but it's always trying to
overcome it. There's an emotional sturdiness to you as a person,
and in the books there seems to be they don't
stop fighting, they try not.
Speaker 2 (08:20):
To give up and succom It's not Bukowski.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
Well, I went through some crises this past year and
my wife said to me fairly recently, she said, I
can't believe I have upbeat and optimistic. You are a medalists,
And I said, but what would be the point of
letting it defeat you and being.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
Down being of the health issues? Yeah? Yeah, it's like, you.
Speaker 3 (08:40):
Know, I like to think I have a positive attitude
even when it seems ridiculous. You just lose that additional
peace of mind that you might preserve.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
You're writing and you're submitting, and it's journalism or whatever,
you and essays and things. The guy that you're editor.
How do you end up with him? You will him
before bride lights? How do you get him?
Speaker 3 (09:02):
I met him at Williams College when we were both there,
and we initially pursuing the same woman who was a
Wellesley transfer student, and we had a big feud about that,
you know, And the first time I ever really met him,
he threw a cigarette into my.
Speaker 2 (09:18):
Beer piece, and so it was love.
Speaker 3 (09:22):
I went over to try to fight him, and we
were pulled off each other. And then somehow the next
thing I knew we were friends. And we took a
class on James Joyce's Ulysses together and that was sort
of a bonding experience. And then I remember that I
gave him one of the first hardcover books I ever
bought was Raymond Carvers Will You Please Be Quiet?
Speaker 2 (09:44):
Please?
Speaker 3 (09:45):
And I wanted so I was finished with it. I
thought it was extraordinary, and I lent it to him,
and it was kind of wonderful because he ended up
being Raymond Carver's editor down the road. But in the
meantime we became best friends. We when we graduated, we
drove across the country together in a beat up Volkswagen
and spent about three months on the road until we
(10:06):
couldn't find work, and eventually parted, but he remained my
best friend. And then he went to work for Random House.
So he was the logical person to go to when
I had a book to publish. He was ready to
throw out if they all all my books so far,
you know, And it was. It's an interesting relationship because
on the one hand, it's great to have your best
friend editing your work, and on the other hand, it
(10:28):
makes for some tense kind of sibling rivalry, you know, yeah,
very honest, I mean, to the point that he would
sometimes write in the margins like the exclamation mark and
you know, just a little discouraging.
Speaker 2 (10:43):
I mean.
Speaker 3 (10:43):
But usually when I finished a book, he would come
to wherever I was living and just camp out for
about a week and we would just go over pretty
much line by line, and sometimes we would fight terribly
about about stuff. I mean, he wasn't sure by the
second person at first, and I'm really glad I held
my ground on that. And I have to say his
name is Gary Fisk John by the way, But I
(11:03):
have to say that the thing I give him credit
for is that he always said in the end, it's
your name on the book. So apparently I had the
veto power, although it's hard sometimes not to feel like
I was the naughty student and he was the teacher.
Speaker 1 (11:17):
I was contacted by Library of America to go to
the synagogue on Fifth Avenue when Read had a presentation
myself and two other people, John Rothman, and one of
the to read from Roth's bibliography. So we go there
and I get an email from Philip Roth. It says,
thank you so much. I'm really very pleased that you're
doing this. So we go and do it and works
pretty well. I mean, it's great stuff to read, and
(11:38):
I'm a pretty good reader in public that way at
that time where the accents are and he writes me
again he says, I heard it went great, Thank you
so much.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
Again.
Speaker 1 (11:45):
I'm very and so I stopped and I go, let
me ask you a question. What do you think about
me writing? I'm writing a memoir and I want to
write it an the third person so I can protect
some people, as I did in my divorce book. Roth
writes me back, and he goes, first of all, and
there was a capitalizations. Frampis first of all, there is
no such thing as a memoir in the third person.
(12:06):
You must put yourself out there. You spare no one,
particularly yourself.
Speaker 2 (12:12):
And it goes on and on and oh he didn't,
he didn't do it.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
But I have written books. I swear to God, this
is funny. I'm not that I dwelled on this city point.
I was even aware until now that I've written books.
Why we write sentences in that second person. I did
that for Runs, and I got attacked by the editors
for that.
Speaker 3 (12:29):
It's an easy thing to fall into because it's a
mode that we often use internally in conversation. And yeah,
and in conversation, and sometimes I've seen it where other
people will slide into the second person.
Speaker 2 (12:43):
When when they're writing.
Speaker 3 (12:45):
I got some grief for it at the time, not
from regular readers, you know, from critics who wondered if
it was a legitimate mode.
Speaker 1 (12:52):
But I'm being glib here somewhat when I say that
your life obviously changes after that book.
Speaker 3 (12:57):
My life changed almost overnight. I mean, nothing happened overnight
back then, because you know, when you publish a book,
I mean, even a word of mouth takes time to spread.
And it was a while before much was written about
Bret Let's Big City. And very quickly it sold out
its first printing, and it took about six seven weeks
to reprint it, and we were afraid it might die then,
(13:19):
because you know, that's a long time.
Speaker 2 (13:21):
People step at me.
Speaker 3 (13:22):
Yeah, but it did, and you know, and the second
pretty sold out very quickly, and the thre and suddenly,
you know, by three or four months after it was published,
I was I was getting kind of New York.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Famous, you know.
Speaker 3 (13:36):
And I remember, I mean one of the first indications
I had of this was I was trying to get in.
Speaker 2 (13:43):
Remember the Palladium opened a long time ago, now dormitory.
Speaker 3 (13:46):
Yeah, so a bunch of us went to try and
get in. It was a huge line, and I just said,
oh the hell with this, my friend Morgan intric and said, no,
wait a minute, and he manages to get up to
the bouncer and he says, that's Jane mcinherney over there,
And the bouncer immediately says, oh, well, why didn't you
say so, come on in?
Speaker 2 (14:04):
And that was this way, mister man.
Speaker 3 (14:06):
That was the first time I thought, wow, maybe my
life is changing, you know, and.
Speaker 2 (14:12):
Girls and all of it. Yeah, all of it, I mean,
And it.
Speaker 3 (14:15):
Was yeah, I mean, and for a relatively shy person
who was just out of graduate school, it was kind of.
Speaker 1 (14:21):
How old when the book came out twenty seven.
Speaker 3 (14:24):
I'd been to graduate school, I'd spent two years in
Japan teaching English.
Speaker 2 (14:29):
What did teaching English and Japan do to feed your
career as a writer? If anything, just.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Gave me time to write because I only had to
teach you about ten hours a week. I mean, I
was kind of fascinated by Japanese culture and so on.
But there came a point where I realized that staying
there was was not going to engage me in my
own culture. It was going to, if anything, divorced me
from my own culture. And so so at that point
I moved back to New York with my girlfriend, who
was a fashion model, and for me, everything was about
(14:57):
New York was just so new and amazing, and it
was almost like I was a foreigner coming to discover
this new country, and I just found New York extraordinary,
and I just thought I could write about this. I
could write about New York. And not many people, you know,
since I don't know since Sallenger, not that many people had.
I remember Tom Wolf coming up to me in nineteen
(15:18):
eighty six and he said, that was brilliant that you
wrote about New York. He said, I'm going to do
the same thing. And then, of course he wrote Bumpire
of the Vanities, which turned out to be a pretty
good book, and then there was a whole slow of
New York novels. But I remember Jason Epstein, who was
a vice president of Random House, who was kind enough
to take my book on. He took me out to
(15:38):
lunch and he said, first of all, nobody your age
reads this is nineteen eighty three. And then he said,
and secondly, nobody cares about New York.
Speaker 1 (15:47):
So he was He said, he wrote coming out of
the seventies, which is yeah, he's likely New York.
Speaker 3 (15:51):
He said, he wrote a really good book, but he said,
I just want to tamp down your expectations. And you know,
allegedly nobody wants to read about New York. But three
years later every other work was set in New York City.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Author and columnist Jay mcinherney. If you enjoy conversations about
the New York literary scene, check out my episode with
Tina Brown.
Speaker 4 (16:17):
A great editor isn't an autocrat. I mean, you have
to have a vision in the same way the director
has to have a vision of a movie, and you
have to have a worldview too. I mean, I knew
what I wanted to do with Vanity Fair. I wanted
to combine the elegance and glamour of the magazine, of
the famous magazine in the twenties and thirties, with some
of that narrative gristle of journalism that had then become
(16:38):
the sort of defining feature of the great magazines of
them the seventies and eighties, like Rolling Stone, like New
York Magazine. So I wanted to modernize that formula.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
If you like.
Speaker 1 (16:50):
To hear more of my conversation with Tina Brown, go
to Here's the Thing dot Org. After the Break, JAYE
mcinherney talks about his involvement in the film adaptation of
Bright Lights, Big City and helping Michael J. Fox prepare
for the role. I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's
(17:18):
the Thing. The nineteen eighty eight film adaptation of Bright Lights,
Big City starring Michael J. Fox, premiere to mixed reviews.
I was curious about Jay mcinnerney's work on the film
and how he felt about the portrayal of the main character,
Jamie Conway, who was based on Jay himself.
Speaker 3 (17:38):
Michael and I get along tremendously well. In fact, we
used to stay out till three. I don't know how
I made it's this set every morning, because we used
to stay out till three in the morning, doing snorting
coke and doing all the stuff that you do in
the method actors. I first learned when I was hanging
out with Michael. First of all, the power of a persona,
and his persona was Alex Keaton, and his millions of
(18:00):
fans wanted him to be Alex Keaton, and they didn't
want to see him with a koch straw up his nose.
And my smaller legion of fans had no interest in
seeing Alex Keaton playing me mirror. Yeah, I mean they
had no interest. And so that that was there was
a disconnect right there, getting from the start. And then
(18:21):
also I think you know, I mean Sidney Pollack was
the producer, and he once said to me, he said,
why do all these people want to get into all
these nightclubs? And I just said, oh man, we don't
really understand what's going on here, do we. And and
you know, the director, James Ridges, he was, you know,
he was aging out at that point this kind of material.
Speaker 2 (18:40):
And Cowboys completely different kind of movie. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:42):
Yeah, So I mean, look, I wrote the screenplay, but
honestly they shouldn't let me write write the screenplay because
I didn't know that much about movies at the time.
Screenplays are very different than, as you know, than novels.
You know, it's like writing a novel is a hosting party.
Write a screenplay is like catering party, you know, And
you have to have a different language, and you have
(19:03):
to realize that movies are made out of images, you know,
they're not made out of words.
Speaker 1 (19:07):
I think Mammot taught me this, or I observe this
about Mammoth, and he confirmed with me in whatever language,
I'd done a few Mammot films I did.
Speaker 2 (19:14):
Glen Garry, obviously, I did the state name, remember that one.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
And when I was around him and you could talk
to him, he's so intimidating. He's this amazing talent and
you know, universally admired in the in the in the
acting world, you know, in the acting world.
Speaker 2 (19:28):
And so, I mean, I really believe that only.
Speaker 1 (19:29):
On is probably one of the five best players I've
ever read in my life for an actor.
Speaker 3 (19:33):
Well, Glenn Garry, Glenn Ross is not so shabby either.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Well, no, but he won the Pulitzer Prize. That my
scene wasn't even in there. So when he puts my
scene in there, I called him and I go, why
are you taking your Pulitzer Prize winning book and changing
it for the movie business, Because because I never believe
these guys had a criminal nature, I need someone to
come in and turn the screws tighter so they commit
a crime. And he said, I wrote this person that
you're going to play to come in and to push
(19:58):
them towards the criminality. Now he writes, Bob Enters, Bob,
you're probably wondering why I called you well here today. No,
his old idea was, what's the point in the screenplay
of any stage directions, I'm going to describe the room
because in the book, that's the only chance you're going
to get see the room.
Speaker 2 (20:13):
If I tell you.
Speaker 1 (20:14):
What's in the room, if I accent something, if I
accent their behavior, his hand shaking, he's scratching his crotch.
Whatever you write, I'm responsible for that. And then a
screenplay or a teleplay, it's a director's going to come
in and just do whatever they want to do. And man,
it's so spare in that way, so spare. When I
saw that movie, I thought thought that those people lost
(20:34):
that idea, Like there wasn't enough of the book and
the kind of I don't want to say grit, but
just the sense of the book in the movie.
Speaker 3 (20:43):
Well, you know, I think back to The Graduate because
The Graduate actually was a very successful novel until my
assault Mike Nichols get a hold of it, and Mike
Nichols so kind of reinvented the book, you know, and
he had this great underwater scenes, you know, in the
swimming pool and you know, the scene in the closet
(21:04):
I mean, but he found a visual language to interpret
what was largely a novel of dialogue. And people don't
even remember that there was a book called The Graduate Now,
So I mean, it's not the worst thing in the
world for me that Bright Lights the book is better
than Bright Lights the movie. You know, I wonder if
we'd had a Robert town as a screenwriter, and if
we'd had Tom Cruise as Tom Cruise for a year
(21:28):
was supposed to be the star. Tom Cruise came and
spent three four days and nights with me, following me
around so that he could model.
Speaker 2 (21:38):
The character on me. It was very weird. He kept
calling me sir, which was very peculiar. I mean, I
was like a year older than he was.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
But he finally, you know, it got delayed and he
finally left to do Top Gun, which I think was
a good career choice.
Speaker 2 (21:51):
Tom.
Speaker 3 (21:53):
Yeah, I mean so strange. He was such a such
a polite, respectful kid, as I say, only a year
younger than me. But you know, Michael, there was a
mismatch there in the in the casting, I think, and
uh not that Michael isn't a great actor, because he is,
but taking on an iconic TV role and embodying it.
(22:14):
It's it's really hard then to you know, to prode,
to blame, to get the audiences have known what he was.
Speaker 1 (22:23):
Anyway, after you launch the book comes the imitators and
or people say we're we're kind of I don't want to.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
See imitating or piggybacking.
Speaker 1 (22:31):
When but brettyston Ellis comes and does his book, which
she said he put a character in there based on
you in Lessons Are was that true?
Speaker 3 (22:37):
And later in one of his later books called Lunar Park,
there's a character named Jay McInerney no like, who gets
drunk and falls.
Speaker 2 (22:44):
Into the pool.
Speaker 3 (22:45):
Okay, well who starts cocop a Porsche you know? Okay, yeah,
I never did those two things.
Speaker 2 (22:52):
Yeah, no, I don't. I doubt it. But Brent's book was.
Speaker 3 (22:55):
Very different than mine, and it was it was it
was very dark, and it was very sort of His
own was neolistic and his pros was really stripped down
and bear His big influence was shown didion. And when
I first read his novel before it came out, Morgan
Intric and his editor were seeing to me, I'm going
to promote this as the West Coast by lets big
city and so at first I was inclined to not
(23:18):
like the guy at all. But then we did a
seminar together, and I read the book and I thought,
you know, he's really talented, and we're doing two completely
different things. Although it was very easy for the press
to lump us together because young people drugs, you know,
that kind of nightclubs, that kind of thing. But I
befriended Brett in part because I wanted to warn him
what was likely to come his way, in other words,
(23:40):
that his life was going to be turned completely upside down.
I mean, it has actors a lot, but it doesn't
usually happen to writers. And it did happen to me,
and it did happen to him in a way that
it hadn't since you know, Mailer and Capodi and Vidal,
that generation. And I'm still good friends with Brett, and
you know, in some ways, you know, we haven't experien
(24:00):
it's in common that not many people have for that period.
Speaker 2 (24:03):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
Sure, author and columnist Jay McInerney. If you're enjoying this conversation,
tell a friend and be sure to follow. Here's the
thing on the iHeartRadio app, Spotify or wherever you'll get
your podcasts When We Come Back. Jay McInerney details the
(24:24):
story behind his screenplay for the nineteen ninety eight film Gia,
which launched the career of one of the biggest stars
in Hollywood, Angelina Jolee.
Speaker 2 (24:45):
I'm Alec Baldwin and this is Here's the thing.
Speaker 1 (24:49):
Ten years after the release of the film Bright Lights,
Big City, Jay McInerney penned the screenplay for Gia, which
launched the career of Angelina Jolia In nineteen ninety eight,
Despite having two of his scripts made into movies with
big stars, mcinnernie chose not to continue with a career
in screenwriting. I wanted to know if he was ever
(25:10):
tempted at the time to move to Hollywood and pursue
writing for film full time.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
So I did some specs screenplays, and I got my
price up pretty high, and it was a nice way
to make money. The only full length screenplay wrote that
really got produced was Gea, which was what I remember.
It's HBO's first movie. Because the HBO, remember, was just
a recycling bin. Basically, they took like Red October and
then they just put on TV and that was what
(25:39):
they did. But then they came to me and they said, Hey,
we've got this idea to make original movies, and how'd
you like to do the first one about Gia Kuranci.
And I just said, oh, this is perfect, like drugs
eighties models.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Let's call Jay McInerney. I mean, what else would you do? Right?
Speaker 3 (25:56):
And so I said to them, Look, I could write
a good screenplay, I think, But I said, it's all
going to depend on the casting. I said, you have
to find a woman who is utterly charismatic. Because Gia
never said anything memorable in her entire life. I mean,
there's not a single line that anybody can remember that
she said. But you know, luckily they cast it perfectly.
(26:18):
I mean, Angelina Jolie was extraordinary, and she that was
her big break.
Speaker 2 (26:24):
She made the movie, and he.
Speaker 1 (26:25):
Made the career of one of the biggest movie stars
in history. But in that way that you've known, I
mean as whether as friends or partners, if you will,
You've known a lot of famous women. I used to
know fleetingly Marla Hanson, right, I think it was after
she was attacked.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
I knew after she was attacked.
Speaker 3 (26:43):
We went out together for four years. Well story, Marla
Hanson was a small town girl, Texas, came to the
city got some modeling jobs, and she got it and
rented an apartment. The landlord was very invasive, and she
kept turning down his advances and he fired finally high
two men to slash her face. You know, I mean,
(27:03):
so I talk about symbolism, you know, all the kind
of mom a model whose faces slashed. And I met
her after the attack as well. Keith McNally used to
have these dinners at to Nelson. He said, you know,
when he come to I think you'd really like this
girl that's there. And I was kind of fascinated to
meet Marla Hansome because she was she didn't really cover
(27:24):
the post like seven times by then, and and everybody
would liked Marlae because she said, you know, I'm undeterred
and I'm going to keep modeling and I love New York.
And so I found her well, first of all, I
found her really good looking, and secondly, I found her face.
Even afterwards she was she was very beautiful. And so
we started dating after that, and and then unfortunately then
(27:47):
I became more of a tabloid fixture because I was
dating a tabloid fixture. We went about four weeks dodging
the paparazzi, and then finally this, you know, one one
of them said to me, look, j just give me
a pictures. Put the five thousand dollars with you.
Speaker 2 (28:02):
Whatever it was. Then I'll never forget.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
I was dating a woman of this many many years ago,
many years ago. I was dating a woman who was
a very famous movie actress. And we're there and she
was divorcing her husband, and she said, I don't want
to hurt my husband's feelings. I really like him and
we're friends and we're going to get divorced. And so
when we leave this hotel, I'm going to go before
you where you go before me?
Speaker 2 (28:23):
I want us walking out the hotel.
Speaker 1 (28:24):
Yeah, that's it was the first time I was ever
introduced to that, Like this kid from Massive People Long,
I'm sitting there going you want me to what you
want me to go out ahead of you?
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Because oh I get, I get, I get, And I.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Never knew that I did just sneak around because of
who you are and the cameras and stuff, that's what
we see.
Speaker 2 (28:39):
So we did that. I went at the back door
and she went out the front door and got her picture.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Taken whatever, and you know my education from back then
about how you try to manage your personal life in
public like that.
Speaker 2 (28:51):
It's really tough.
Speaker 1 (28:52):
The ones I see that are the most successful movie stars,
you don't know anything about them.
Speaker 2 (28:57):
You really don't the most I agree, But a little
bit about that.
Speaker 1 (29:01):
By the way, we went to Barnes and Noble on
seventeenth Street at Union Square, you know the area.
Speaker 2 (29:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Whatever macinn Earn do they have is in softcover. Is
there any place I can get hardcover books of the books?
Speaker 2 (29:11):
Oh? I want Bright Lights, Big City.
Speaker 3 (29:13):
Well the problem is the only Right Lights was published
in trade paperback, and I was upset about that. But
my editor said, look, this is the this is the
way to reach people your own age, she said, because
hardcover books are expensive, which is true. I didn't buy
many when I was back. I try to only buy
hardcover now. Yeah me, oh, me too. So there's there's
really no American hardcover by Latswig City. All the other
(29:36):
books are in hardcover I want to get, But the
problem is the publishers. They only do one run of
hardcover and then it all goes into the So what
are you working on now? I just sold a book
to Kannaff, my longtime publisher, and it's called See You
on the Other Side. I started writing it during the pandemic,
and it's and it starts in the pandemic. But where
(29:57):
the title came from was that I walking past a
coffee shop at that time, and it was right after
everything had been closed and someone had slapped a sign
on the windows I'd see you on the other Side,
meaning like, what week, two weeks will be out of
this mass, except it was.
Speaker 2 (30:18):
More like a year and a half.
Speaker 3 (30:19):
And then one of the main characters in the books
book dies at the end of the book, and I
suddenly when I was rereading the books, I was searching
for a title and I saw this that I had
written this down about this sign. I thought, God, that's
that's a good title for the book. The bad news
is that it's it's the fourth novel in a series
of novels about these characters, Kareen and Russell. Kareen and
(30:42):
Russell Callaway, who when we first meet them, you really
glamorous New York couple, not wealthy, but you know she's
a stockbroker and he's an assistant editor, book editor, and
he remains an editor throughout the series, but Brightest Falls
was going to be a one off. And then the
crisis in that book was the was the stock market crash,
and Russell had actually tried to perform a leverage buyout
(31:05):
on his publishing, you know, so that was that's kind
of thing that happened in the eighties. And and then
nine to eleven came along, and I just for live me.
I couldn't think, how am I going to you know,
take this into account as a writer. And then I finally,
wait a minute, what if I just take these set
of characters and just have them react to this event.
And I really kind of like the characters, and you know,
(31:28):
they're also going through marital crises and so on. And
before I knew it, you know, I'd written a third one,
which is set around the time of the crash of
the two thousand and eight and Obamas and Obama's election,
you know, very big deals. So this seems to be
partly a way for me of following a relatively heavily
married couple, which you know, someone who's been married four times.
(31:49):
It's like it's like something that I am passing. I'm
fascinated by it, but also registering the kind of crises
that New York City has gone through in my lifetime.
So this is the very last one for but it's
now a tet trilogy.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Well it's it's reminding me somewhat. I mean, are very
distinctive writers. But and she reminded me someone of Richard
Nelson's Apple Family Stories, those four plays he did where
they were all seated around talking about AIDS and we cut.
Speaker 2 (32:14):
To nine to eleven.
Speaker 1 (32:15):
I mean, he's got these four tableaus and they're just
talking about what's going on, and then their relationships and
the wife goes on it gets to words and becomes
a lesbian and her lesbian girlfriend comes into chapter four
and blah blah blah. I mean, Richard Nelson, who I worship.
I worship him. But where did you meet? And Annhurst
is my wife. I met her in nineteen eighty six
at a nightclub called MK. So she was with a
(32:38):
friend of hers. I was sitting with Bretty Sinellis, Tama
Jenowitz and.
Speaker 2 (32:43):
Myself of all things.
Speaker 3 (32:44):
I mean, we didn't hang out that much with Tama,
but that night we were and this friend VERSI, you're
gonna meet these guys.
Speaker 2 (32:51):
They're like the coolest.
Speaker 3 (32:52):
Guys in all of New York, and so In came
over and introduced herself, and you know, I knew her
last name.
Speaker 2 (32:59):
She's the granddaughter of William Randall. First.
Speaker 3 (33:01):
Yes, oh, and Marla Hanson was at the table as well,
So I couldn't like flirt openly.
Speaker 2 (33:06):
My former girlfriend, my future yeah, yeah, my imitators.
Speaker 3 (33:10):
But we definitely hit it off and there was electricity
there and so we just kind of stayed in touch.
And when I broke up with Marla, finally a couple
of years later, I called her up and I said, yeah,
it's broke up in Marla.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
That's really sad.
Speaker 3 (33:22):
But I was thinking, like, yeah, not so sad, and
she said, oh shit, And I said what she said,
I just got engaged.
Speaker 2 (33:28):
And it was like, yeah, and we have a problem. Yeah,
I have a brother.
Speaker 3 (33:32):
And it just kind of we just kept missing the boat,
including on September tenth, two thousand and one, we had
a date for the first time in many years.
Speaker 2 (33:43):
We were both free. So we have a date.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
We go to we got to a restaurant and so
then I, you know, I invite her back to my
apartment since we were downtown, and she says, tell you what.
She said, let's not rush things. So let's do this
again tomorrow. And she said, you might have it, you know,
give me a data, maybe we'll have a different result.
And I said, you're sure, sure, So so off she
went uptown. I went downtown and the next morning was
(34:08):
September eleventh, and she was trying to get to Long
Island where her kids were. The phones weren't working, and
you know, so it was another four or five years
before we got together. But now we've been married seventeen
years and long time, long time.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
But whenever I've met her, fleeting Lee, I don't know
her that well, but whenever I've met her, what a lovely.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Woman she has. So you're adding a tetralogy, you're putting
the new.
Speaker 3 (34:33):
Additional latest, and that'll come out, I guess next year.
And yeah, I'm just editing it at the moment with
my new editor. His name is Errol McDonald, And yeah,
I mean, I'm glad to be back in the game again.
I also wrote a memoir during the pandemic. I showed
it to my agent, who feels like it's about seventeen
lawsuits waiting to happen.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
So we've we've got to free things that.
Speaker 1 (34:54):
Yeah, I mean, I mean the funny thing is might
be some tips on it.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
My story is about Mick Jagg and Carrie Fisher are
no problem because they're famous, but it's it's like the
wives and girlfriends and all and brothers and you know they.
Speaker 2 (35:07):
Can't wait to read it.
Speaker 3 (35:08):
Make sure you know those guys are Those guys might
sue me, those girls might sue me.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
So it's going to come out at all or not.
Speaker 3 (35:17):
Well, yeah, well as su as I published this novel,
then I'll figure out and I'll figure out the memoir.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
But the first I mean, the people who have read
it tell me it's really fun. A memoir from you.
I'm dying to read.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
Last thing I'll say is in your books the word
bright appears three times. Yeah, and you seem to me
like a very buoyant person. We didn't even get into
the fact that you were the wine columnist for the
Wall Street Journal.
Speaker 2 (35:41):
How did that happen? I mean, other than you being
a fan of wine.
Speaker 3 (35:44):
Well, I started with you know, I just I love
I mean, my friends know this. It's a hobby of mine.
I love wine. And so my friend Dominque Browning took
over her House in Garden magazine, and she wanted to
have a wine column, but she thought wine writing was boring,
so she she called me up and and I said, look,
I don't know enough. I don't know enough to call him.
And she said no, but that's just the way, she said,
(36:04):
you're you're a good writer, and you get enthusiasm. She said,
just write like your one chapter ahead of the textbook
of the class in the textbook, and write like a
novelist right about the characters who make women. And so
so I did this for a few years, and House
Garden eventually folded, and then the Wall Street Journal called
me up and said, hey, you want to be our
wine critic.
Speaker 2 (36:24):
Thought, well, we'll.
Speaker 3 (36:24):
Street Journal met it's but you know the conic why
their cultural coverage is quite good. And yeah, so I
did a lot of things about the journal. I did
that for four years. I like a lot of things
about the Journal too, not so much their editorial page.
Speaker 1 (36:40):
But well, as I said to some friends of mine,
I would come across movies that I didn't feel somewhat
needed to be remade or maybe them, here's an opportunity
to take a story and tell the modern angle on
that story Looking for Mister Goodbar was one I wanted
to remake just to direct or produce or what you
would say the female sexuality and how women are played
(37:02):
with an exploited now or not, or how they do
the exploiting whatever the female psychology is about sex and
do mister Goodbar again and contemporize it. And the other
movie that's Bernie to be remade is Bright Lights, Big City.
Speaker 3 (37:14):
Well it's it's supposedly in the works. But you know
how these things work. You know, there maye when we're dead.
There are fifty people who have to all agree at
the same time, you know. But I have a conversation
every month or two. It's gotta happen with the guys. Ready,
I'm ready to We finally got to pay the lead role.
Speaker 2 (37:33):
Who is as seeking as you are seeking? You are
seeking many things. Oh, I'll take that. I like that.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
My thanks to novelist, columnist and screenwriter Jay McInerney. This
episode was recorded at CDM Studios in New York City.
We're produced by Kathleen Russo, Zach MacNeice, and Victoria de Martin.
Our engineer is Frank Imperry. Our social media manager is
Danielle Gingrich, I'm Alec Baldwin. Here's the thing is brought
(38:06):
to you by iHeart Radio
Host
Alec Baldwin
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