May 15, 2024 • 37 mins
In the era of music we are in now, the art of battle rap and diss tracks can slide into petty memes which go from being funny to silly. Kinda like...our elections. How do we remain serious in a deeply unserious time that has such high stakes?
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Calls media. I mean all of California in every card
like it did not like us as the number one
song in the country. It's streaming more than all of
the music that Jay Cole and Drake put out this
year combined. It's the game's over. You don't want it
with the compter Kid been trying to say it since
(00:22):
the beginning. If I were to give advice to the
Canadian I would say, just pop out, take your al
like a man, you know, be respectful, admit you got cooked,
Disappear for a few months, maybe a year, come back
with the Bombist album, you know, connect with all the
Canadian artists across the country, you know, do dope work,
(00:48):
and make this be about like soul searching or something
about how you took this as a time to reflect
and become a better man and a better father and
all this good stuff and how you've changed. That's what
I would say anyway, But obviously this is future stuff.
Now we're going to go back in time to what
(01:09):
I'm talking about in part two. All right, here we go.
What modern music, pop culture, hip hop, and politics have
in common. It's something that I starting out this show
(01:29):
would have never thought because of how the central premise
of the show works. But I never thought that the
thing that unites all of these things is the power
(01:50):
of the meme politics. Y'all all right? Part two of
Lessons of the Big Three. And one of the things
(02:10):
that sometimes worked for me was yesterday I had like
a really bad like sinus situation because oh my god,
the pollen spring is like I hate your face, like
Buddy's allergies been good lord. So there was that, and
also I lost the relative, So yesterday was a little
(02:37):
not really the easiest I usually I'm saying this because
I usually record on Mondays and today is Tuesday. So
had I recorded this episode yesterday, which, like I've said before,
I'm recording these lessons from the Big Three asynchronistically that's
how you say it, yeah, meaning I'm recording them out
(02:57):
of order, I hadn't already done Part three, and in
part one I did a long time ago. Had I
recorded this yesterday, I would have missed out at what
happened today, which is Kendrick finally responded, and it adds
to the point so beautifully of what I was trying
(03:17):
to say, and not even so much the lyrics itself,
but the response to the lyrics. So let me get
into it, and let me make my point about the
sophistication of the sophistic focation, the sophistic ratchetness of it.
The last point I tried to make in the last
(03:37):
episode about this is the what are we even doing? Thing?
The descending into the particulars versus keeping up with the
big picture, and it is being discussed in this In
this whole thing is to keep in mind that these
are millionaires writing poems about each other, growman talking about
stuff that don't matter, and what's beautiful is In k
(03:58):
Dot's response, even says that, like essentially, he says, I
have better things to do, but also I have to
address this, and I'm going to address it. So bringing
into the chat the we have bigger fish to fry,
we have very important things to talk about. But also
(04:21):
I'm down to get into the muck and myer with you.
He was like, I know you don't think my whole
life is rap. I'm not calling around getting dirt about you.
I have a son to raise, you know, So I
think that there's that, and I'm going to talk about
how we need that attitude with our politics. Secondly, I
want to talk about the Rick Ross of it all,
(04:43):
and then the Kanye of it all because both of
them jumped in and all of this to make the
point of part two, which is, while memes work, they
destroy us as time goes on, and how comical sound
something can become, we eventually stop taking it serious. It
(05:05):
eventually becomes boring, the law of diminishing returns. These are
things that we already know about ourselves that if we
step back for a second, we've allowed to happen to
our politics. And the only thing that usually wakes us
up in hip hop from the memification of stuff is
(05:27):
when somebody dies. That's when everybody wakes up and says
what's going on? But you have people like Vin Staples
who steps in and he says, like, why are we
y'all love hearing us talk about tearing each other down?
But like, why are we not talking about publishing, licensing labels,
what Universal Music Group has done? Why are we not
(05:49):
talking about the fact that none of us are actually
making money off our songs? And then my boy consciously
brings up how somebody wrote a disc track to Detroit's
infrastructure because they were supposed to get a Hollywood sign
type sign for Detroit and then the sign they got
(06:13):
looked more like a dollar try like it was just
like they was like, Yo, what the hell is this?
You promised us like a Hollywood sign. This shit is trash, right,
so we like, Yo, I want to hear hip hop
talk about more distracks to the civic government, to their
local government, start dissing where the bridge is at, why
(06:37):
the city still got potholes? Y'all, lay like, I want
to hear these two black men tell each other down.
I want to know why we ain't got better school
us hilarious? All right, let me stop, let me let
me try to prove my point here. There are things
that we can learn from this time about ourselves and
(06:58):
about where we can go as a culture. And it
might feel like a stretch, but let me cook. Let
me land the plane. Which one of you which one
of the things y'all kids say, I don't know anyway?
A case for and against memes. One thing that is
(07:42):
absolutely true about them is that they take things that
are very complex or possibly complex, and you can reduce
them down to a way that is digestible and is
quickly shareable. Right, So in some ways it's good for
(08:04):
a culture whose attention span is shorter, who doesn't really
enjoy long form type things. So they play a role,
but they're also very reductive. I'm not telling you something
you don't already know. For us to pretend like politics
is not also entertainment is just that you're you're pretending.
(08:28):
Once cameras got turned on, and I'm even before that,
like you would go to you know, town hall meetings
and you know, of course it's passionate, of course you're invested,
but like you know, people are making these bolstering, big spectacles,
speeches that need to be entertaining. So the idea of
(08:53):
the purest in politics is something that I'm sure you know,
I'm not. This is not like I sure you know
you know, the idea of like behind closed doors politicians
sitting around and discussing the merits of a law that
(09:14):
they're trying to get passed, you know, and why this
might be right, like the importance of climate change and infrastructure, Like,
come on, guys, you know that's not what's happening. You know,
these people smiling and putting their arms around Trump smiling,
put these people arms around, bidenduct them. Niggas ain't friends
y'all know that, so I don't have to like you know, right,
(09:38):
and you also know the best way to get your
point across rather than just arguing the merits of something
is either wheeling and dealing or just dragging the other person.
It's its memes. And what we continue to see, especially
(09:59):
in our last election, is that that type of behavior
is rewarded. It's rewarded with the presidency. So what are
you gonna tell him? I continue to hold to the
fact that Drake is corny, But what am I gonna
(10:22):
tell him? He's rewarded with everything he does. That's one
of the That's why he can make the statements he
can make. That's why he can do the things he
can do. But what we see is that meming and
(10:45):
corniness does have its limits. And my argument is for
this episode is the limits aren't so much just for
his or her own demise, but it's for the demise
of all of us. Sounding like an old guy, now,
we know lives are at state, we know where they are,
(11:08):
and we also know this is entertainment. Now, when you
get into the kfabe of it, all of hip hop,
there is a little bit of both. We don't know Kendrick.
We don't know, Drake, but they are actual men who
actually have interacted and they may or may not actually
(11:28):
not like each other for whatever reasons that you and
I don't know. So some of this might actually be serious,
but we all know, let's be real, guys, this is entertainment,
like we're this is entertaining now again, people don't take
this entertainment serious until somebody die, right, That's usually what
(11:49):
snaps people into reality. Unfortunately, especially with hip hop. That's
when people be like, damn, like who I'm supposed to die?
Because But at the same time, there is a reality
that like it is understood, at least with hip hop music,
that it's supposed to be entertainment. We have the opposite.
In politics. It's understood that this is supposed to be serious.
(12:09):
You are supposed to be really passionate and caring about
the topics that you're caring about. You're supposed to be
saying things you truly believe in. Now, if it were
just about that, then then you take somebody like an
Elizabeth Warren who in the debates was actually talking policy.
(12:34):
You know, we would be electing the nerds, the people
that are actually in the weeds because they're not entertaining,
they're just spitting facts. They just did the research, but
we don't want that. You need to be a little
bit of both, and it raps the same. You can't
just you can't just only meme. You gotta be able
to spit. So once you accept the fact that, like
(12:59):
there is a level of kfabe, the question is what's
an acceptable amount of k fabe? Until you get to
a point to where you're just corny and you clearly
don't know what you're talking about. When does what you're
being rewarded for stop rewarding you? When are you sent home?
(13:25):
When do the big boys come and talk? Now, when
the big boys come out and talk, how intricate it's?
This is the opposite. How intricate, how real? How far
in the weeds can you go before you lose the masses?
And ultimately, this is the question of Kendrick and Drake.
(13:48):
This is art versus commerce like it in a lot
of ways despite all the baggage of it all between
the name Clinton, if you look at the campaign season
between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Set aside my opinions
(14:10):
about the artists of Drake and Kendrick you had a
person who knew what she was talking about and tried
to talk about it, versus a man who did not
know what he was talking about but was remarkably entertaining.
Let's just not lie like like Trump is not entertaining.
(14:31):
Of course there had to be something there because you
can't just be entertaining. But that's what we saw. How
far in the weeds can you go and listen? Everybody came, mean,
everybody's not funny, just like everybody can't battle. Everybody's not
every songwriter's not a good battle rapper. Everybody can't crack
jokes like that, because you saw when people tried to
(14:51):
go head to head with Trump and what he's good at,
you couldn't do it. He's good at that. Like you're
not as funny as him. That's just it's a reality.
You the memification in twenty sixteen one because you're just
not as funny as him. That's just it's just real.
Was he the better leader? I mean that's yet to
(15:13):
be discussed in the same way, like who's the better rapper,
Kendrick or Drake? And it's crazy, as Kendrick says in
his in his disc recently, that was like everybody likes
you on to sing songy stuff, but when you start
acting tough guys, stuff like oh, nigga, you can't come
to the bungalows, you're not one of us. Stay over there,
stay in Calabasas, don't come to confetent. But fast forwarding
(15:35):
to my main premise, that was six minutes long. Now
knowing Kendrick, there's levels. It's six minutes because he's not
scared of the six stay with me. I'm reminded of
jay Z song. Do you listen to rap or you
just skim through it? If you have the patience and
the attention span to sit down and listen to six
(15:58):
minutes of rapping, you would hear. Kendrick airs out everything
we think about Drake. You're a pop singer, you're a
great pop singer. You've never made a classic. You're very corny.
You do very corny things at the end of the day,
And this is what Kendrick came at. And what's crazy
is I suggested this before I even heard this song.
(16:20):
At the end of the day, what Drake Drake is
the homecoming prom king, captain of the football team, dating
the cheerleader, straight a student principals on a roll that edictorian,
and all he wants to do is kick it at
the bungalows and smoke weed with the cool kids. And
nim niggas don't like you. You are corny, And no
(16:41):
amount of prom and homecoming king Kings and Sadie Hawks,
no amount of that will make you not lame to us.
That's what Kendrick is saying, because that is his weakness.
I read in the comments somewhere that Kendrick rapped like
a politician, like he only worried about black vote because
(17:02):
carrying the metaphor forward like you're right, who cares about
a six minute rap? Who cares that I have more
lyrical miracle than you? Like Again, Drake's the captain of
the football team. Go to the frat parties, go with
the cheerleaders. I'm keeping it real for the culture now,
if you're running against a man with a personality like
(17:24):
Donald Trump, you have to try to figure out the
one thing that matters to him. And in my opinion,
the one thing that matters to him is power. Its
power and respect. So if you could come at him
in a way that makes him feel like a fool,
nobody around you, respects you, And I don't care how
much money you got. I don't care how many people
you put around me. I don't care you firing everybody
(17:44):
around you to just keep people around you that will
just tell you what you want to do, which means
you are weak. Kendrick saying that song, you won't tell
lies about me, I won't tell the truth about you.
All he cares about is power. You're a weak man
and all your actions prove it. That's the only thing
you could say to him, especially if you Joe Biden,
Who's like, there's so many things you could say about Joe.
(18:05):
You have to find the one thing you could say
about him. And you can't do what Trump do. Trump's
a master at meming. You're not that good at that.
But at the end of the day, Kendrick's thing is like,
we don't really like you. That's just it. You know. Now.
(18:50):
On the other hand, but who has the patience to
listen to six minute rap? Well? I do. But I
also have the patience to read an actual bill. I
have the patience to actually look at a court case.
Is it too far? Does your intricacies make you lose this?
What's happened? Can you Is it possible to be too
(19:14):
qualified to run for office? Because going back to Drake's
original response, he's going after the boys in securities too.
He's like, look, man, you got size seven shoes, Like nigga,
you little the drop and give me fifty Like that's
it's wordplay. It's wordplay about fifty push ups. It's wordplay
about fifty percent of his publishing. He's like, you're funny,
(19:36):
you're short. I don't care. I forget the person's name,
but it was a person who I should just look
it up. But I don't want to stop recording this.
Just trust me. As a matter of fact, they talked
about it on The Daily and the New York Times podcast.
I think on Monday, which would be the twenty ninth,
that when we elect Trump, we're gonna know the difference
(20:00):
between our rules and our norms inside of democracy. That
is such a profound statement because with hip hop, obviously,
there's so much gun talk, right, there's so much like
Bravado when you attempt to address certain rappers versus other rappers.
(20:21):
We get to know which one of y'all are entertainers
and which one of y'all are gangsters and which one
of this is a little bit of both. That's a
lot of times that's how it plays out. So we
need to know are you really a shooter? And what
Jay Cole taught us is that like, not in a
bad way, but just he was truthful. He was like, look,
I'm not a shooter, Like I don't. I'm not that.
(20:42):
I'm a college kid who wanted to smash your girl. Right.
I just liked the way that outside smell, but I
ain't really outside. We certed interviews recently a Fat Joe
being like, Bro, the things that I've wrapped about would
put me up under the jail. I'm entertaining, y'all right,
So sometimes there are moments that the k fab is broken.
(21:05):
But when rappers rap about the code that was the
thing about Takashi six y nine, it's like, this is
how we get to know how much of this is
norms and how much of this is rules and the
things that we're seeing with Donald Trump in these courts
is saying like basically he's like, yo, there's no law
that says I can't do this. We just had an understanding,
(21:25):
and that's what people like a Trump. The stress testers
of the system do is they show you how much
of this is, Like do y'all really do we really
have a code or there's just understandings people like a
John Gotti. Y'all remember John Gotti? Like I'm bringing him
up because he was showing this. It's like the code
with mobsters was you play low, you don't be fascy.
(21:47):
He was like, Nigga, I ain't make this money to
not be flashy. I'm outside right. Takashi six nine was like, well,
I'm facing too much time. So when you have people
that challenge these norms and then get away with it,
then we realize the norms are just that they're not
They're not rules, their norms. Now, granted I can't name
(22:10):
the last time Takashi as like no one's talked about
him in years because fool, who cares? But what that
shows me is that our rules about snitching and about
being real we found the line. Cause it's like you're
the you're mais, it's you're in alote like there we're done,
you know, And that's what that showed is like you
(22:32):
have the stress test to see which one of these
are rules, in which one of these are codes? Now
in a battle. I'm bouncing back and forth because I
want you to see, like, these are the lessons we
learned from this. In a battle, it's bar for bars,
song for song, and this is a display of your
prowess as an artist. But at the end of the day,
(22:53):
who's supposed to win is the fans, because we're supposed
to see the best, the best possible display of the
art form. This is good for the culture, This is
good for all of us. We win. And why I
can say that is because the artists are a part
of the culture. You're a part of hip hop. You're
(23:15):
creating it. So when you guys go at it, if
you go at it with the spirit of even if
we have animosity for each other, we're putting these songs out,
but it's it is an honor because we're raising the
standards of the entire culture. Right. This is best for
all of us. Everybody's making money, everybody's seeing really good
(23:37):
hip hop happen. I want to see in a dream
world where you know, Magic Jordan Kobe, Lebron Steph if
everybody in their prime all being able to just run
three on threes are just like at the gym, just
running like five on five pickup games. You're just the
(23:58):
caliber of basket ball that we would see is like
just it would be the best. It's the best basketball.
It's ai it's the best best if Alan Iverson was
the best possible basketball ever to be played ever freaking
space jam level, Like just the best possible basketball. That's
what you want to see. And sometimes you got a
(24:21):
player like Johnny Stockton, right, who is just a dirty player.
You got you got a Dennis Rodney who is just
a dirty player, a bill Laane Beer. You feel me,
you gotta have Draymond on the court. You understand what
I'm saying, Like that's part of the game. Is like,
of course they're gonna be elbows thrown. Of course it's
gonna get rough. But at the end of the day,
this is the best of the best going at each
(24:42):
other and the culture wins, which is what a democracy
is supposed to be. We're supposed to see the smartest,
the brightest, the best of the best discuss the best
way for our country to go forward. But it's not
its means. We see if these what who we really
(25:05):
are and what really works by what is rewarded? So
when Drake finally responded with the drop and give me fifty.
He was rapping, y'all, Like I cannot. There is no
way in the world I would take away from the
fact that he was rapping. But the rapping isn't what
anybody cared about, per se. They cared about the meat,
(25:28):
the punchlines. Drake got that little nas xs thing like
they were born on the Internet. They're just really good
at the Internet. Just master trolls like fifty a master troll, right,
And it's so entertaining. But then we find the line
meming can only get you so far unless you're Donald Trump.
But meming can only get you so far. You know,
(25:50):
doing things just for the spectacle can only get you
so far. At some point you have to have substance.
At some point you have to know what you're talking about.
At least that's what we hope. How do we know
this is because when he did the AI pop it
was too far. We found the line that's corny and
he had to pull it down. And it's that is
(26:12):
what drew Kendrick out of this out of silence. But
in between that you have Rick Ross coming in. When
Rick Ross started rapping, the song he dropped was kind
of whatever. What was dope was his Instagram the BBL
Drake because Rick Ross is funny and like the point
I make in part three, which is the reality is
(26:37):
this is what you want. You want to be outside
with us washing off chevies, But you gotta go home,
white boy, you gotta call your mom. You like, you're
not one of us. So the power of what he
did was not the prowess, but going after the man's weakness,
and it got us talking, It got us pointing and
(26:58):
laughing at Drake for a while. And then Drake came back.
You know, I loved his comeback. They're like, you know,
sit your old ass down. You're almost fifty bro chill,
but it didn't matter. You're BBL Drake. Now you know,
He's like, what is this a twenty against one? Poor Drake?
Like right, but also not poor Drake, You're still a
number one artist, Like there's not none of this should
(27:23):
matter to you. But that was a flash, you know,
in a pan because it can only get you so far.
And then finally, is the ultimate point I'm trying to
make is when memes get to absurdity and we have
to get brought back to reality, and I am placing
(27:43):
that squarely on Kanye because it felt to me like
the day that our aunts and uncles finally got on Facebook.
It's like, all right, it's dead. Now, this is kind
of over it, you know. I'm just I'm over it, Nelly.
(28:10):
And it's not necessarily the fact that it's Kanye, but
it's kind of like, bro, nobody was talking to you.
I get it. I don't like Drake either, but like,
why are you here? We're watching the stars like clash,
you know what I'm saying, Like it should be great.
And Kendrick at that point wasn't moved. It's been like
two weeks at that point, he had not moved. And
then Drake drops the AI pop and Snoop one, and
(28:33):
again you've moved into absurdity now, so now it's like
what are we doing? And then that's when finally, as
of yesterday, the song Euphoria, Kendrick just dropped. But the
point of this whole pod is, no matter how good
(28:58):
Euphoria is, and I am here to testify as a
fan of rap, that six minute rap is incredible. I
just wonder if it matters now because we're too far
into the meme worlds it took too long. We're over
it now again. Like I said, he here for the
(29:22):
black vote because so US rapidy rap rappers, US West
Coast folk, we like nigga. Finally, man blew this dude's
head off, and we'll see how long the world talks
about it. Because Kendrick is very good at making moments.
That's one thing that I know. What's that boy? Uh
Loupe Fiasco said, He's like, Yo, Kendrick makes moments. He
(29:46):
knows how to make the world stop and listen to him.
And what I love about him is the fact that
he does that by just rapping. That is not like
any other spectacle except for just these are bars and
I'm going out after the person. He's like, I don't
like subliminals. I don't have no respect for that. I
say what I need to say, I drop it, and
(30:07):
I'm out. You ain't gonna see him on. He ain't
doing no memes, He ain't doing none of that. But
I just wonder if the memification sucked a lot of
the energy out of this. So I say that about
our politics, and I think we all know the answer
(30:28):
that while memes can get you elected, does the culture win?
Are we better for it. They were fun. Listen, I'm
sure in these right wing circles all your let's go
branding things are so funny. Has it made the world?
(30:50):
Has it made the culture better? Do you feel better?
All of our outrage around what conservatism is doing. We
can make our memes and just share them, but like,
are we better? Like we need to consider for ourselves,
(31:11):
especially going into this election, what are we willing to tolerate? Because,
like I said, what usually snaps us into reality is death. Now,
if you're looking at our college campuses, they've been snapped
back into reality. Like I'm not playing with y'all. I'm
(31:32):
done playing. No, I need you to divest. They've been
snapped into reality. And they looking at this man, Joe Biden,
and they looking at the Trump twenty twenty five to
you know, playing Trump two point zero, and they like,
we're not having this. They especially looking at Biden who
(31:54):
told them that you were supposed to be riding with us.
But like, I'm done, I'm done with the memes. People
are dying. So I am coming in here to be
the Vince Staples of the conversation. It's to say, let's
reward the behavior that makes us all better. Now. Having
(32:19):
said that, does that mean that you're not supposed to
go at each other. No, you're not supposed to bring
the best bars you possibly can. Absolutely, I want Drake
to spit as hard as he can. I want Kendrick
to be merciless. Not because I want to see them
(32:42):
torn down, but I want to see culture built now
if it's about just skills, if it's about seeing that
now again, going back to ten thousand feet, like the
first episode, what are we even doing? Have we lost
(33:03):
the plot here? Is this not about all of our success?
Is this not about the flourishing of the culture period?
What should be Listen? I want to see our candidates
bring their best ideas and I want us to push
(33:23):
it that to ignore the memes. That's my encouragement to us.
Ignore the memes going into the policy. Just ignore it,
ignore that and be like, give me bars, tell me
what you got, tell me the plan you don't, don't
just count on me being your fan. I'm not going
(33:43):
to listen to no DJ academics, you know the political
equivalent of that. I ain't going to Joe Budden's podcast. Hey,
I want to hear from your mouth. You tell me,
what's your plan what we're doing here? And he say this,
I want you to come back with some substance now.
I don't need no memes. I need you to come
(34:04):
back with some substance. Tell me what it is now.
I'm not just talking about the presidential election, because as
we know that shit is sale, that's gonna be what
it is. I'm talking about as you looking down your ballots,
I'm talking about you looking at your governors. I'm talking
about you looking as you looking at the totality of
what we're gonna vote for. Hood politics. Ignore the memes,
(34:25):
tell them people to spit they bars. I need these
fifteen minute raps. I need you to show me you
got octuplets, my nigga. Give me the heat. And I
need to know you can make a hit. I need
to know you can make a song, make it plain
for us, make it fun. I still want to dance.
I ain't always in the books. Show me you could
(34:47):
do it all. Can you crack jokes? Can you get it?
Can you go on S and L and can you
go bring the heat to Shijing Ping? Can you do both?
Get you one that can do both? Because Lord knows
we needed because listen. Sometimes entertainment spill out to death,
(35:11):
and if you've been around for a while, no, that's
quite possible. Of politics. All right, now, don't you hit
(35:33):
stop on this pod. You better listen to these credits.
I need you to finish this thing so I can
get the download numbers. Okay, so don't stop it yet,
but listen. This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights
by your Boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop
hip hop dot com. If you're in the Coldbrew coffee
(35:54):
we got terraform Coldbrew. You can go there dot com
and use promo code hood get to percent off get
yourself some coffee. This was mixed, edited and mastered by
your boy Matt Alsowski killing the beat softly. Check out
his website Matdowsowski dot com. I'm a speller for you
because I know M A T T O S O
(36:17):
W s ki dot com Matthowsowski dot com. He got
more music and stuff like that on there, so gonna
check out The heat. Politics is a member of cool
Zone Media, executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part of the
iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and scoring is also
by the One and Overly Mattowsowski still killing the beat softly,
(36:40):
so listen. Don't let nobody lie to you. If you
understand urban living, you understand politics. These people is not
smarter than you. We'll see y'all next week. But the
(37:01):
dam
Calls media. I mean all of California in every card
like it did not like us as the number one
song in the country. It's streaming more than all of
the music that Jay Cole and Drake put out this
year combined. It's the game's over. You don't want it
with the compter Kid been trying to say it since
(00:22):
the beginning. If I were to give advice to the
Canadian I would say, just pop out, take your al
like a man, you know, be respectful, admit you got cooked,
Disappear for a few months, maybe a year, come back
with the Bombist album, you know, connect with all the
Canadian artists across the country, you know, do dope work,
(00:48):
and make this be about like soul searching or something
about how you took this as a time to reflect
and become a better man and a better father and
all this good stuff and how you've changed. That's what
I would say anyway, But obviously this is future stuff.
Now we're going to go back in time to what
(01:09):
I'm talking about in part two. All right, here we go.
What modern music, pop culture, hip hop, and politics have
in common. It's something that I starting out this show
(01:29):
would have never thought because of how the central premise
of the show works. But I never thought that the
thing that unites all of these things is the power
(01:50):
of the meme politics. Y'all all right? Part two of
Lessons of the Big Three. And one of the things
(02:10):
that sometimes worked for me was yesterday I had like
a really bad like sinus situation because oh my god,
the pollen spring is like I hate your face, like
Buddy's allergies been good lord. So there was that, and
also I lost the relative, So yesterday was a little
(02:37):
not really the easiest I usually I'm saying this because
I usually record on Mondays and today is Tuesday. So
had I recorded this episode yesterday, which, like I've said before,
I'm recording these lessons from the Big Three asynchronistically that's
how you say it, yeah, meaning I'm recording them out
(02:57):
of order, I hadn't already done Part three, and in
part one I did a long time ago. Had I
recorded this yesterday, I would have missed out at what
happened today, which is Kendrick finally responded, and it adds
to the point so beautifully of what I was trying
(03:17):
to say, and not even so much the lyrics itself,
but the response to the lyrics. So let me get
into it, and let me make my point about the
sophistication of the sophistic focation, the sophistic ratchetness of it.
The last point I tried to make in the last
(03:37):
episode about this is the what are we even doing? Thing?
The descending into the particulars versus keeping up with the
big picture, and it is being discussed in this In
this whole thing is to keep in mind that these
are millionaires writing poems about each other, growman talking about
stuff that don't matter, and what's beautiful is In k
(03:58):
Dot's response, even says that, like essentially, he says, I
have better things to do, but also I have to
address this, and I'm going to address it. So bringing
into the chat the we have bigger fish to fry,
we have very important things to talk about. But also
(04:21):
I'm down to get into the muck and myer with you.
He was like, I know you don't think my whole
life is rap. I'm not calling around getting dirt about you.
I have a son to raise, you know, So I
think that there's that, and I'm going to talk about
how we need that attitude with our politics. Secondly, I
want to talk about the Rick Ross of it all,
(04:43):
and then the Kanye of it all because both of
them jumped in and all of this to make the
point of part two, which is, while memes work, they
destroy us as time goes on, and how comical sound
something can become, we eventually stop taking it serious. It
(05:05):
eventually becomes boring, the law of diminishing returns. These are
things that we already know about ourselves that if we
step back for a second, we've allowed to happen to
our politics. And the only thing that usually wakes us
up in hip hop from the memification of stuff is
(05:27):
when somebody dies. That's when everybody wakes up and says
what's going on? But you have people like Vin Staples
who steps in and he says, like, why are we
y'all love hearing us talk about tearing each other down?
But like, why are we not talking about publishing, licensing labels,
what Universal Music Group has done? Why are we not
(05:49):
talking about the fact that none of us are actually
making money off our songs? And then my boy consciously
brings up how somebody wrote a disc track to Detroit's
infrastructure because they were supposed to get a Hollywood sign
type sign for Detroit and then the sign they got
(06:13):
looked more like a dollar try like it was just
like they was like, Yo, what the hell is this?
You promised us like a Hollywood sign. This shit is trash, right,
so we like, Yo, I want to hear hip hop
talk about more distracks to the civic government, to their
local government, start dissing where the bridge is at, why
(06:37):
the city still got potholes? Y'all, lay like, I want
to hear these two black men tell each other down.
I want to know why we ain't got better school
us hilarious? All right, let me stop, let me let
me try to prove my point here. There are things
that we can learn from this time about ourselves and
(06:58):
about where we can go as a culture. And it
might feel like a stretch, but let me cook. Let
me land the plane. Which one of you which one
of the things y'all kids say, I don't know anyway?
A case for and against memes. One thing that is
(07:42):
absolutely true about them is that they take things that
are very complex or possibly complex, and you can reduce
them down to a way that is digestible and is
quickly shareable. Right, So in some ways it's good for
(08:04):
a culture whose attention span is shorter, who doesn't really
enjoy long form type things. So they play a role,
but they're also very reductive. I'm not telling you something
you don't already know. For us to pretend like politics
is not also entertainment is just that you're you're pretending.
(08:28):
Once cameras got turned on, and I'm even before that,
like you would go to you know, town hall meetings
and you know, of course it's passionate, of course you're invested,
but like you know, people are making these bolstering, big spectacles,
speeches that need to be entertaining. So the idea of
(08:53):
the purest in politics is something that I'm sure you know,
I'm not. This is not like I sure you know
you know, the idea of like behind closed doors politicians
sitting around and discussing the merits of a law that
(09:14):
they're trying to get passed, you know, and why this
might be right, like the importance of climate change and infrastructure, Like,
come on, guys, you know that's not what's happening. You know,
these people smiling and putting their arms around Trump smiling,
put these people arms around, bidenduct them. Niggas ain't friends
y'all know that, so I don't have to like you know, right,
(09:38):
and you also know the best way to get your
point across rather than just arguing the merits of something
is either wheeling and dealing or just dragging the other person.
It's its memes. And what we continue to see, especially
(09:59):
in our last election, is that that type of behavior
is rewarded. It's rewarded with the presidency. So what are
you gonna tell him? I continue to hold to the
fact that Drake is corny, But what am I gonna
(10:22):
tell him? He's rewarded with everything he does. That's one
of the That's why he can make the statements he
can make. That's why he can do the things he
can do. But what we see is that meming and
(10:45):
corniness does have its limits. And my argument is for
this episode is the limits aren't so much just for
his or her own demise, but it's for the demise
of all of us. Sounding like an old guy, now,
we know lives are at state, we know where they are,
(11:08):
and we also know this is entertainment. Now, when you
get into the kfabe of it, all of hip hop,
there is a little bit of both. We don't know Kendrick.
We don't know, Drake, but they are actual men who
actually have interacted and they may or may not actually
(11:28):
not like each other for whatever reasons that you and
I don't know. So some of this might actually be serious,
but we all know, let's be real, guys, this is entertainment,
like we're this is entertaining now again, people don't take
this entertainment serious until somebody die, right, That's usually what
(11:49):
snaps people into reality. Unfortunately, especially with hip hop. That's
when people be like, damn, like who I'm supposed to die?
Because But at the same time, there is a reality
that like it is understood, at least with hip hop music,
that it's supposed to be entertainment. We have the opposite.
In politics. It's understood that this is supposed to be serious.
(12:09):
You are supposed to be really passionate and caring about
the topics that you're caring about. You're supposed to be
saying things you truly believe in. Now, if it were
just about that, then then you take somebody like an
Elizabeth Warren who in the debates was actually talking policy.
(12:34):
You know, we would be electing the nerds, the people
that are actually in the weeds because they're not entertaining,
they're just spitting facts. They just did the research, but
we don't want that. You need to be a little
bit of both, and it raps the same. You can't
just you can't just only meme. You gotta be able
to spit. So once you accept the fact that, like
(12:59):
there is a level of kfabe, the question is what's
an acceptable amount of k fabe? Until you get to
a point to where you're just corny and you clearly
don't know what you're talking about. When does what you're
being rewarded for stop rewarding you? When are you sent home?
(13:25):
When do the big boys come and talk? Now, when
the big boys come out and talk, how intricate it's?
This is the opposite. How intricate, how real? How far
in the weeds can you go before you lose the masses?
And ultimately, this is the question of Kendrick and Drake.
(13:48):
This is art versus commerce like it in a lot
of ways despite all the baggage of it all between
the name Clinton, if you look at the campaign season
between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump. Set aside my opinions
(14:10):
about the artists of Drake and Kendrick you had a
person who knew what she was talking about and tried
to talk about it, versus a man who did not
know what he was talking about but was remarkably entertaining.
Let's just not lie like like Trump is not entertaining.
(14:31):
Of course there had to be something there because you
can't just be entertaining. But that's what we saw. How
far in the weeds can you go and listen? Everybody came, mean,
everybody's not funny, just like everybody can't battle. Everybody's not
every songwriter's not a good battle rapper. Everybody can't crack
jokes like that, because you saw when people tried to
(14:51):
go head to head with Trump and what he's good at,
you couldn't do it. He's good at that. Like you're
not as funny as him. That's just it's a reality.
You the memification in twenty sixteen one because you're just
not as funny as him. That's just it's just real.
Was he the better leader? I mean that's yet to
(15:13):
be discussed in the same way, like who's the better rapper,
Kendrick or Drake? And it's crazy, as Kendrick says in
his in his disc recently, that was like everybody likes
you on to sing songy stuff, but when you start
acting tough guys, stuff like oh, nigga, you can't come
to the bungalows, you're not one of us. Stay over there,
stay in Calabasas, don't come to confetent. But fast forwarding
(15:35):
to my main premise, that was six minutes long. Now
knowing Kendrick, there's levels. It's six minutes because he's not
scared of the six stay with me. I'm reminded of
jay Z song. Do you listen to rap or you
just skim through it? If you have the patience and
the attention span to sit down and listen to six
(15:58):
minutes of rapping, you would hear. Kendrick airs out everything
we think about Drake. You're a pop singer, you're a
great pop singer. You've never made a classic. You're very corny.
You do very corny things at the end of the day,
And this is what Kendrick came at. And what's crazy
is I suggested this before I even heard this song.
(16:20):
At the end of the day, what Drake Drake is
the homecoming prom king, captain of the football team, dating
the cheerleader, straight a student principals on a roll that edictorian,
and all he wants to do is kick it at
the bungalows and smoke weed with the cool kids. And
nim niggas don't like you. You are corny, And no
(16:41):
amount of prom and homecoming king Kings and Sadie Hawks,
no amount of that will make you not lame to us.
That's what Kendrick is saying, because that is his weakness.
I read in the comments somewhere that Kendrick rapped like
a politician, like he only worried about black vote because
(17:02):
carrying the metaphor forward like you're right, who cares about
a six minute rap? Who cares that I have more
lyrical miracle than you? Like Again, Drake's the captain of
the football team. Go to the frat parties, go with
the cheerleaders. I'm keeping it real for the culture now,
if you're running against a man with a personality like
(17:24):
Donald Trump, you have to try to figure out the
one thing that matters to him. And in my opinion,
the one thing that matters to him is power. Its
power and respect. So if you could come at him
in a way that makes him feel like a fool,
nobody around you, respects you, And I don't care how
much money you got. I don't care how many people
you put around me. I don't care you firing everybody
(17:44):
around you to just keep people around you that will
just tell you what you want to do, which means
you are weak. Kendrick saying that song, you won't tell
lies about me, I won't tell the truth about you.
All he cares about is power. You're a weak man
and all your actions prove it. That's the only thing
you could say to him, especially if you Joe Biden,
Who's like, there's so many things you could say about Joe.
(18:05):
You have to find the one thing you could say
about him. And you can't do what Trump do. Trump's
a master at meming. You're not that good at that.
But at the end of the day, Kendrick's thing is like,
we don't really like you. That's just it. You know. Now.
(18:50):
On the other hand, but who has the patience to
listen to six minute rap? Well? I do. But I
also have the patience to read an actual bill. I
have the patience to actually look at a court case.
Is it too far? Does your intricacies make you lose this?
What's happened? Can you Is it possible to be too
(19:14):
qualified to run for office? Because going back to Drake's
original response, he's going after the boys in securities too.
He's like, look, man, you got size seven shoes, Like nigga,
you little the drop and give me fifty Like that's
it's wordplay. It's wordplay about fifty push ups. It's wordplay
about fifty percent of his publishing. He's like, you're funny,
(19:36):
you're short. I don't care. I forget the person's name,
but it was a person who I should just look
it up. But I don't want to stop recording this.
Just trust me. As a matter of fact, they talked
about it on The Daily and the New York Times podcast.
I think on Monday, which would be the twenty ninth,
that when we elect Trump, we're gonna know the difference
(20:00):
between our rules and our norms inside of democracy. That
is such a profound statement because with hip hop, obviously,
there's so much gun talk, right, there's so much like
Bravado when you attempt to address certain rappers versus other rappers.
(20:21):
We get to know which one of y'all are entertainers
and which one of y'all are gangsters and which one
of this is a little bit of both. That's a
lot of times that's how it plays out. So we
need to know are you really a shooter? And what
Jay Cole taught us is that like, not in a
bad way, but just he was truthful. He was like, look,
I'm not a shooter, Like I don't. I'm not that.
(20:42):
I'm a college kid who wanted to smash your girl. Right.
I just liked the way that outside smell, but I
ain't really outside. We certed interviews recently a Fat Joe
being like, Bro, the things that I've wrapped about would
put me up under the jail. I'm entertaining, y'all right,
So sometimes there are moments that the k fab is broken.
(21:05):
But when rappers rap about the code that was the
thing about Takashi six y nine, it's like, this is
how we get to know how much of this is
norms and how much of this is rules and the
things that we're seeing with Donald Trump in these courts
is saying like basically he's like, yo, there's no law
that says I can't do this. We just had an understanding,
(21:25):
and that's what people like a Trump. The stress testers
of the system do is they show you how much
of this is, Like do y'all really do we really
have a code or there's just understandings people like a
John Gotti. Y'all remember John Gotti? Like I'm bringing him
up because he was showing this. It's like the code
with mobsters was you play low, you don't be fascy.
(21:47):
He was like, Nigga, I ain't make this money to
not be flashy. I'm outside right. Takashi six nine was like, well,
I'm facing too much time. So when you have people
that challenge these norms and then get away with it,
then we realize the norms are just that they're not
They're not rules, their norms. Now, granted I can't name
(22:10):
the last time Takashi as like no one's talked about
him in years because fool, who cares? But what that
shows me is that our rules about snitching and about
being real we found the line. Cause it's like you're
the you're mais, it's you're in alote like there we're done,
you know, And that's what that showed is like you
(22:32):
have the stress test to see which one of these
are rules, in which one of these are codes? Now
in a battle. I'm bouncing back and forth because I
want you to see, like, these are the lessons we
learned from this. In a battle, it's bar for bars,
song for song, and this is a display of your
prowess as an artist. But at the end of the day,
(22:53):
who's supposed to win is the fans, because we're supposed
to see the best, the best possible display of the
art form. This is good for the culture, This is
good for all of us. We win. And why I
can say that is because the artists are a part
of the culture. You're a part of hip hop. You're
(23:15):
creating it. So when you guys go at it, if
you go at it with the spirit of even if
we have animosity for each other, we're putting these songs out,
but it's it is an honor because we're raising the
standards of the entire culture. Right. This is best for
all of us. Everybody's making money, everybody's seeing really good
(23:37):
hip hop happen. I want to see in a dream
world where you know, Magic Jordan Kobe, Lebron Steph if
everybody in their prime all being able to just run
three on threes are just like at the gym, just
running like five on five pickup games. You're just the
(23:58):
caliber of basket ball that we would see is like
just it would be the best. It's the best basketball.
It's ai it's the best best if Alan Iverson was
the best possible basketball ever to be played ever freaking
space jam level, Like just the best possible basketball. That's
what you want to see. And sometimes you got a
(24:21):
player like Johnny Stockton, right, who is just a dirty player.
You got you got a Dennis Rodney who is just
a dirty player, a bill Laane Beer. You feel me,
you gotta have Draymond on the court. You understand what
I'm saying, Like that's part of the game. Is like,
of course they're gonna be elbows thrown. Of course it's
gonna get rough. But at the end of the day,
this is the best of the best going at each
(24:42):
other and the culture wins, which is what a democracy
is supposed to be. We're supposed to see the smartest,
the brightest, the best of the best discuss the best
way for our country to go forward. But it's not
its means. We see if these what who we really
(25:05):
are and what really works by what is rewarded? So
when Drake finally responded with the drop and give me fifty.
He was rapping, y'all, Like I cannot. There is no
way in the world I would take away from the
fact that he was rapping. But the rapping isn't what
anybody cared about, per se. They cared about the meat,
(25:28):
the punchlines. Drake got that little nas xs thing like
they were born on the Internet. They're just really good
at the Internet. Just master trolls like fifty a master troll, right,
And it's so entertaining. But then we find the line
meming can only get you so far unless you're Donald Trump.
But meming can only get you so far. You know,
(25:50):
doing things just for the spectacle can only get you
so far. At some point you have to have substance.
At some point you have to know what you're talking about.
At least that's what we hope. How do we know
this is because when he did the AI pop it
was too far. We found the line that's corny and
he had to pull it down. And it's that is
(26:12):
what drew Kendrick out of this out of silence. But
in between that you have Rick Ross coming in. When
Rick Ross started rapping, the song he dropped was kind
of whatever. What was dope was his Instagram the BBL
Drake because Rick Ross is funny and like the point
I make in part three, which is the reality is
(26:37):
this is what you want. You want to be outside
with us washing off chevies, But you gotta go home,
white boy, you gotta call your mom. You like, you're
not one of us. So the power of what he
did was not the prowess, but going after the man's weakness,
and it got us talking, It got us pointing and
(26:58):
laughing at Drake for a while. And then Drake came back.
You know, I loved his comeback. They're like, you know,
sit your old ass down. You're almost fifty bro chill,
but it didn't matter. You're BBL Drake. Now you know,
He's like, what is this a twenty against one? Poor Drake?
Like right, but also not poor Drake, You're still a
number one artist, Like there's not none of this should
(27:23):
matter to you. But that was a flash, you know,
in a pan because it can only get you so far.
And then finally, is the ultimate point I'm trying to
make is when memes get to absurdity and we have
to get brought back to reality, and I am placing
(27:43):
that squarely on Kanye because it felt to me like
the day that our aunts and uncles finally got on Facebook.
It's like, all right, it's dead. Now, this is kind
of over it, you know. I'm just I'm over it, Nelly.
(28:10):
And it's not necessarily the fact that it's Kanye, but
it's kind of like, bro, nobody was talking to you.
I get it. I don't like Drake either, but like,
why are you here? We're watching the stars like clash,
you know what I'm saying, Like it should be great.
And Kendrick at that point wasn't moved. It's been like
two weeks at that point, he had not moved. And
then Drake drops the AI pop and Snoop one, and
(28:33):
again you've moved into absurdity now, so now it's like
what are we doing? And then that's when finally, as
of yesterday, the song Euphoria, Kendrick just dropped. But the
point of this whole pod is, no matter how good
(28:58):
Euphoria is, and I am here to testify as a
fan of rap, that six minute rap is incredible. I
just wonder if it matters now because we're too far
into the meme worlds it took too long. We're over
it now again. Like I said, he here for the
(29:22):
black vote because so US rapidy rap rappers, US West
Coast folk, we like nigga. Finally, man blew this dude's
head off, and we'll see how long the world talks
about it. Because Kendrick is very good at making moments.
That's one thing that I know. What's that boy? Uh
Loupe Fiasco said, He's like, Yo, Kendrick makes moments. He
(29:46):
knows how to make the world stop and listen to him.
And what I love about him is the fact that
he does that by just rapping. That is not like
any other spectacle except for just these are bars and
I'm going out after the person. He's like, I don't
like subliminals. I don't have no respect for that. I
say what I need to say, I drop it, and
(30:07):
I'm out. You ain't gonna see him on. He ain't
doing no memes, He ain't doing none of that. But
I just wonder if the memification sucked a lot of
the energy out of this. So I say that about
our politics, and I think we all know the answer
(30:28):
that while memes can get you elected, does the culture win?
Are we better for it. They were fun. Listen, I'm
sure in these right wing circles all your let's go
branding things are so funny. Has it made the world?
(30:50):
Has it made the culture better? Do you feel better?
All of our outrage around what conservatism is doing. We
can make our memes and just share them, but like,
are we better? Like we need to consider for ourselves,
(31:11):
especially going into this election, what are we willing to tolerate? Because,
like I said, what usually snaps us into reality is death. Now,
if you're looking at our college campuses, they've been snapped
back into reality. Like I'm not playing with y'all. I'm
(31:32):
done playing. No, I need you to divest. They've been
snapped into reality. And they looking at this man, Joe Biden,
and they looking at the Trump twenty twenty five to
you know, playing Trump two point zero, and they like,
we're not having this. They especially looking at Biden who
(31:54):
told them that you were supposed to be riding with us.
But like, I'm done, I'm done with the memes. People
are dying. So I am coming in here to be
the Vince Staples of the conversation. It's to say, let's
reward the behavior that makes us all better. Now. Having
(32:19):
said that, does that mean that you're not supposed to
go at each other. No, you're not supposed to bring
the best bars you possibly can. Absolutely, I want Drake
to spit as hard as he can. I want Kendrick
to be merciless. Not because I want to see them
(32:42):
torn down, but I want to see culture built now
if it's about just skills, if it's about seeing that
now again, going back to ten thousand feet, like the
first episode, what are we even doing? Have we lost
(33:03):
the plot here? Is this not about all of our success?
Is this not about the flourishing of the culture period?
What should be Listen? I want to see our candidates
bring their best ideas and I want us to push
(33:23):
it that to ignore the memes. That's my encouragement to us.
Ignore the memes going into the policy. Just ignore it,
ignore that and be like, give me bars, tell me
what you got, tell me the plan you don't, don't
just count on me being your fan. I'm not going
(33:43):
to listen to no DJ academics, you know the political
equivalent of that. I ain't going to Joe Budden's podcast. Hey,
I want to hear from your mouth. You tell me,
what's your plan what we're doing here? And he say this,
I want you to come back with some substance now.
I don't need no memes. I need you to come
(34:04):
back with some substance. Tell me what it is now.
I'm not just talking about the presidential election, because as
we know that shit is sale, that's gonna be what
it is. I'm talking about as you looking down your ballots,
I'm talking about you looking at your governors. I'm talking
about you looking as you looking at the totality of
what we're gonna vote for. Hood politics. Ignore the memes,
(34:25):
tell them people to spit they bars. I need these
fifteen minute raps. I need you to show me you
got octuplets, my nigga. Give me the heat. And I
need to know you can make a hit. I need
to know you can make a song, make it plain
for us, make it fun. I still want to dance.
I ain't always in the books. Show me you could
(34:47):
do it all. Can you crack jokes? Can you get it?
Can you go on S and L and can you
go bring the heat to Shijing Ping? Can you do both?
Get you one that can do both? Because Lord knows
we needed because listen. Sometimes entertainment spill out to death,
(35:11):
and if you've been around for a while, no, that's
quite possible. Of politics. All right, now, don't you hit
(35:33):
stop on this pod. You better listen to these credits.
I need you to finish this thing so I can
get the download numbers. Okay, so don't stop it yet,
but listen. This was recorded in East Lost Boyle Heights
by your Boy Propaganda. Tap in with me at prop
hip hop dot com. If you're in the Coldbrew coffee
(35:54):
we got terraform Coldbrew. You can go there dot com
and use promo code hood get to percent off get
yourself some coffee. This was mixed, edited and mastered by
your boy Matt Alsowski killing the beat softly. Check out
his website Matdowsowski dot com. I'm a speller for you
because I know M A T T O S O
(36:17):
W s ki dot com Matthowsowski dot com. He got
more music and stuff like that on there, so gonna
check out The heat. Politics is a member of cool
Zone Media, executive produced by Sophie Lichterman, part of the
iHeartMedia podcast network. Your theme music and scoring is also
by the One and Overly Mattowsowski still killing the beat softly,
(36:40):
so listen. Don't let nobody lie to you. If you
understand urban living, you understand politics. These people is not
smarter than you. We'll see y'all next week. But the
(37:01):
dam
Host
Prop
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