Lakers Tonight - How the Warriors finished off the Nuggets

Jason breaks down the Warriors’ series win over Denver, reacts to the Bucks advancing over Chicago and gives his take on the reported LeBron-front office feud.

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Episode Transcript

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(02:11):
presented by Fandel here at the volume. Happy Wednesday, everybody.
It is halfway through the week. I hope all of
you guys are having a great week that turned into
a much more interesting night of basketball than I expected
coming into tonight. Obviously you're thinking to three one series
team at home, significant favorite, gonna be a relatively boring

(02:34):
night of basketball, you know, the kind of boring night
that would lead to folks in Lakers Land leaking defamatory
things about their teammates and compatriots and trying to take
advantage of the slow news cycle on today. But what
ended up happening was a very very very interesting Game
five between Denver and Golden State, and I think Golden

(02:57):
State was in a lot more trouble there. People realize
we are going to break that down. We're also going
to have a what I learned segment about the bulls
and the Bucks. We're gonna get into the story that
was released on Bleacher Report about some of this Lakers drama,
and then at the end, we're gonna do a mail back.
So I need all of you guys who are listening

(03:18):
to do a couple of things. Please hit the subscribe
button to the Volumes YouTube channels. You don't miss any
more of our shows. And then if you have any
questions that you can ask literally anything about absolutely anything
dropped them in the chat, and if we have time,
we will get to them at the end. But let's
start with Golden State and Denver. So interestingly enough, this

(03:40):
series was starting to take on a little bit of
a feel similar to Toronto and Philly. You know, we
did a theme last night and the show that styles
make fights. But not just that styles make fights. It's
about which style wins the fight, because just because one
style has an advantage over another, usually that has something

(04:00):
to do with which style is playing better, not necessarily
the style in and of itself in a vacuum. Golden
State has a bunch of advantages over Denver, particularly in
overall talent and skill level. Right, No one's debating the
fact that Golden State has significantly more skilled and capable
perimeter players than Denver does. But Denver has a huge

(04:23):
advantage in this series too, and its interior size, not
just on the interior, actually perimeter size as well. Guys
like you know, guys like Will Barton can cause a
problem on the perimeter with his length and athleticism. They're
a big and strong team. Austin Rivers is another guy
who's very, very good and physical defensive guard. They have
physical advantages in this series, and early on in this series,

(04:47):
Golden State held up really well under that physical onslaught
and had a lot of success and took a three
oh lead. But what happened in Game three? It was close,
It was very close, and Stephen Draymond each made a
key play down the stretch of the game to pull
that one out, very similar to a Joel and Be
did to the Raptors in Game three. Up in Toronto.

(05:08):
But in those games, Game three in Toronto and Game
three in Denver, Denver and Toronto figured some things out
and started to inflict their advantages on who they were playing.
And then you saw Game four swing the other way,
wins for both teams. Right, So now you got a
Game five on your home floor. Toronto went into Philly

(05:29):
and played the same brand of basketball that they played
at home, and they kicked their ass. Now, Golden State
is not, as you know, I'm not even sure the
right word to use here, but Golden State is is
more experienced, battle hardened, and prepared for something like this
than Philly is. And so when Denver came in tonight

(05:50):
and did the exact same thing, just playing that physically
imposing brand of basketball, Golden State faltered a little bit,
but they had the mental toughness to push through. Tweeted
out twice during the game that this was quickly turning
into not a must win, but as close to a
must win as it could be for a team that's

(06:11):
up three one in this series. The reason why is
you're heading to Denver next, and these advantages, these physical advantages,
it's really difficult to regain control of that situation. Look
at Phoenix last year. Phoenix, very similar situation. They hold
up really well under the Janice and Drew Holiday on

(06:31):
slot in gains one in game two, right, and then
it just started to wear on them a little bit.
Everything got a little bit tougher for them on both
sides of the floor. And suddenly Milwaukee had the advantage
in their physicality and it was impossible for Phoenix to
regain that advantage that because, like we talked another theme
from last night, the difference between what's in your control

(06:53):
and what's outside of your control. You know, your perimeter skill,
guys like Jordan Pool and Clay Thompson and Steph Curry
and their ability to create shots off the dribble and
knockdown difficult jump shots. There's a chance element there. Does
the shot go in or does it not go in?
And if it goes one way or the other, it
can swing the outcome of a game. But if you

(07:14):
are a physically dominant team, that is a very dependable
tool to have in your toolbox. And I thought Aaron
Gordon in particular set the tone. So Golden States starts
small and they go with their best lineup, right, the
death lineup number two or death lineup, number three, whatever
you wanna call it, Steph Clay, Jordan Poole, Draymond Green
and Andrew Wiggins. And on the very first possessions of

(07:36):
the game, Aaron Gordon just put his head down and
started driving to the basket, draws a foul on on
Draymond Green, gets an offensive rebound and draws a foul.
Then he drove to the basket on Clay Thompson and
drew a foul. Nicola Yokus was bullying his way inside.
Draymond had a foul already almost immediately. Steve Kerr had
two audible out of that small lineup and go big.

(07:57):
He brings in uh Kivon Looney to try to get
some size in there, and it ended up being something
they had to navigate the rest of the night. All
game long, Denver was being so so aggressive to the basket.
They weren't making shots from the perimeter. That wasn't their
advantage in this game. It was just putting their head
down and going to the rim. And Steph had a

(08:17):
rough game in the first half, definitely got it going
and save the day in the second half. We'll get
to that in a minute. But Steph had a rough
night in the first half, Jordan Pool was having a
rough night. You know, everyone on Denver's got it clicking,
and next thing you know, it's like we're down ten
in the second half. They've been the better basketball team
over the last two and a half games. We might

(08:37):
be in some trouble here. And that's why I was
saying it was a must win and two Golden States credit.
They reached down deep and they got it done. You know,
Draymond all night long. I don't remember how many remounts
he finished with, but I think he might have had
zero or or barely more than that. And it's because
all night long he was fighting his ass off on
just boxing dudes out, and Golden State was getting killed

(09:00):
on the offensive glass. And you know, there's this interesting
dynamic with UH with rebounding that I think led to
the key substitution at the end of the game. So
I don't know if you guys noticed, but Jordan Pool
was absent down the stretch of the game and ended
up being Gary Payton that closed. And there were two
reasons why. Part of it was Monty Morris drew a
couple of fouls on Jordan Pool because he wasn't sliding

(09:21):
his feet well on the perimeter, and he was getting
beat to the basket again young guard. Young guards typically
are gonna take a while before they really pick up
the details of defensive basketball. So I'm not worried about
Jordan Pool. In the long run, especially in the Golden
State system, He'll be a fine defensive player. But Denver
was attacking him, and so they went to Gary Payton.
And another big reason why they went to Gary Payton
was the rebounding. So if Draymond has zero rebounds because

(09:45):
he's locked in box outs all night long, how is
it that you secure defensive rebounds. It's crashing. You gotta
have people come flying in from the perimeter to grab rebounds.
I thought that was a a big part of why
Auto Porter Jr. Getting as much playing time as he did.
He was coming flying in and grabbing rebounds. Gary Payton Jr.
Coming flying into grab rebounds. And they finally started to

(10:08):
get some stops down the stretch of the game. And
then Steph was aggressive to the rim, and this was
the key difference in the first half. Denver's defense was
super aggressive on the perimeter. Every time they called the
ball screen. They were trapping the ball screen and the
rollman was wide open, and get Golden State was missing
that pass a lot. And then when Jordan Pool and
Steph and Clay and all those guys were dribbling, Denver's

(10:28):
defenders were pressing up into them and taking away their
three point shooting and they had to drive past them.
And part of the reason why the first half was
so sloppy was they weren't hitting the roll man and
they weren't attacking that overly aggressive perimeter defense. Got a
pivotal stretch of the game there in the third quarter,
Steph got hot, made some threes, got them back into
the game, and then down the stretch of the game,

(10:50):
it was Steph Curry putting his head down and going
to the rim and he was icing the game at
the rim. But a huge, huge, huge performance from Gary
Payton Jr. We've talked a lot about him on the
show in recent weeks. I obviously have a personal attachment there.
I played against him a bunch of college and have
a bunch of mutual respect there. And he he made

(11:12):
his living in college as a playmaker. That's what made
him so good. In his second year at Salt Lake
and in his year at Oregon State, and he was
just the perfect guy to have out there down the
stretch because he one was making his wide open threes.
Two he could set screens and roll to the basket
and make smart decisions because again he's had so much

(11:32):
experience as a decision maker. Had another player where he
cut along the baseline and had a beautiful shovel passage
Draymond Green for a dunk. Just a monstrously impactful Arguably again,
some Golden State fans might disagree with me here, but
I thought this game was super pivotal to close the
deal tonight, to prevent going up to Denver where you're
probably gonna lose because they're playing better basketball than you

(11:54):
right now and they're pulverizing you physically. And then a
Game seven, anything could happen. And just an absolute lee
monster performance from Gary Payton Jr. Now looking forward, because
this is where it gets interesting. Denver pulverized Golden State
with a size advantage, but they just didn't have enough
skill to capitalize. In the middle of the third quarter

(12:15):
when Steph got hot. Do you guys remember Golden State
transition to a box in one? They put Clay Thompson
on Yokich and then they put basically two guys at
the elbow, two guys at the block, and it's a
zone essentially with those four guys. And then Clay Thompson
stays glue to Yokas there some wrinkles in there, like
if Yoki said a ball screen, they would just switch
and then Clay would go into the box and like

(12:36):
Wiggins or wherever it was, would then take Yo kis.
But during that stretch, the gimmicky defense wasn't working. It
was getting stops, but only because Denver was missing shots.
They were making fantastic reads out of that boxing one
and getting wide open threes. And during that same stretch
when Denver was missing those wide open three, Steph got hot,

(12:57):
made some threes, got the game close, and then they
were able to close the deal late. But what concerns
me is again you saw a match up, a physical
mismatch in terms of size. Damn near allow a Denver
team that has a significantly they they are, especially on
the perimeter, at a massive disadvantage with talent, and they

(13:21):
damn near pushed this series to six games. And so
the issue is when you get to a later round,
Let's say Memphis next round, when you're dealing with guys
like Jaren Jackson Jr. Who's a monster. When you're dealing
with guys like Brandon Clark, who arguably stole Game five
from Minnesota, offensive rebounding guys like Desmond Baine who are

(13:42):
huge at their position. You know, John Moran is skinny,
but he's very very athletic. Memphis is going to present
a lot of those same types of size mismatches in
conjunction with a lot more talent. And so you know,
I'm not I've still am. I would probably I to
dive more into this series before I make an actual

(14:03):
official pick, and I'm but at the moment, I'm leaning
Golden State because I'm gonna always trust their experience and
how many times they've been in this type of setting.
And as big as Memphis is, they don't have a
Yokich And obviously yo kits was a huge factor in
this series in Denver's ability to inflict with their size.
But I think that's gonna be a very very close series.

(14:24):
Memphis is gonna have a lot of advantages. It's gonna
be interesting. But one last shout out, I gotta give
it to step Steph had a rough night in the
first half. Like I said, everything was trending Denver's way
for basically up until that fourth quarter. For the previous
two and a half games, Denver was playing better basketball
or two games or so, whatever it was, Denver was

(14:44):
playing better basketball, and so things were looking dire. I
mentioned on Twitter it was practically a must win, and
Steph treated it like a must win and he made
all the plays down the stretch to win that game.
Just a monstrous sav the veteran refused to die performance
from Steph current really quickly. I wanted to touch on

(15:08):
Bulls Bucks just for a minute. That series what just
about exactly as I expected, with exception of the random
Game two performance when uh DeMar Derozen went absolutely nuclear
down the stretch and shot them out of the game.
But aside from that, it went basically exactly as I expected.
Golden Uh the Bucks gave up a jazillion wide open threes.

(15:29):
They gave up I believe, just under twenty two wide
open threes per NBA dot Com from games one to
Game four. Um. Obviously they haven't updated the metrics from tonight,
but that was the most wide open threes that was
given up. In the first round a Game five, they
gave up fifty two threes and Chicago was only able
to make fifteen of them, which was like in the

(15:51):
like or something like that. So what did we say
before the series? Chicago is not a good three point
shooting team. They're not even good at generating three point shots.
Milwaukee's defense gives up three point shots, what's gonna happen? Well,
it went exactly like that. Here's the trick. In the
first four games, Chicago shot just overt on wide open threes.

(16:12):
Boston shot over on wide open threes against the nets,
much more skilled team, a team that's prepared to knock
down threes they knocked down. I think of their three
is just out of the left corner, which is gonna
be the three that they get most frequently in their
offense against against Milwaukee. So this next round is going

(16:33):
to put that Milwaukee defense to the test. A Milwaukee
defense that succeeds against teams that relentlessly pressure the rim,
but don't know how to make you pay from the perimeter.
And so I we'll get more into this series at
a later date. But as good as this as dominant
as this first down or this first round performance was
from Milwaukee, I can't say that I did learn much

(16:56):
because it did look like the same defense from the
regular season, which was an bridge defense, a defense that
dominated the painted area, a defense that dominated on the
defensive glass, and a defense that gave up a million
wide open threes. And that's why they were an average defense. Well,
Boston is gonna take the look at did you guys
see Janice tonight? I think he made ten of his
first eleven shots or something, literally just dunking all over

(17:19):
them and getting whatever he wanted to paint. Chicago is
incapable of making Janice work hard the way that Boston
is going to. That's gonna be a much more interesting
series than people think. We will get deeper into both
of those series, Golden State Second Round Series and Milwaukee
Second Round series as we get further along here in
a minute, we're going to talk about this Lakers drama.

(17:41):
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bluetoo for sponsoring the podcast. Let's move on really quick
to some drama with the Los Angeles Lakers, who, predictably,
on one of the slowest days of this first round

(19:27):
of the postseason, had some drama release. And again with
this kind of thing, you never know who it's coming
from or what the ultimate goal is. But Eric Pinkus
from Bleacher Report wrote an article today talking about both
the Nets and the Lakers and their situations with stars
and their influences on the front office. And obviously the

(19:48):
article was targeting a bigger issue with the construction of
super teams and NBA superstars playing a very very hands
on role in the construction of rosters, and we're gonn
to talk about that in just a second, but there
was a nugget in there about the Lakers specifically that
I wanted to touch on before we get to that point,
so from Eric Pinkas quote, but James certainly has a

(20:11):
strong influence on the Lakers decision making. Multiple sources indicate
that the team's front office is internally blaming pressure from
Clutch Sports group representing both James and Davis for Westbrook,
that maybe an epic level of passing the buck. An
NBA team should consider it, stars wishes, but ultimately make

(20:35):
the best decision for the team. And quote a little
bit of a personal opinion there from Pinkas at the
end that I agree with. I cannot take credit for
this specific take because it comes from my friend Harrison
Fagan at Silver Screen and Roll, but he said it
this morning, and I thought it was a perfect encapsulation

(20:55):
of this situation. You know, it's fine for the Lakers
to take credit when they get the trophy in twenty
I didn't see any reporting or any leaks from Rob
Polinka or from Genie Buss about how actually it was
Lebron and Clutch Sports who pushed for the necessary moves

(21:17):
to build a championship winning roster. But now that things
are going south, they're wanting to lead you guys to
believe that Lebron and and Rich Paul held these guys
at gunpoint to make the Russell Westbrook deal, and that's ridiculous. Now,
you guys know how I feel about stars getting involved
in personnel decisions. It's the same thing I said about

(21:39):
Rob Polinka during all this drama from the beginning. You know,
in order to be a general manager in this league,
you have to have a certain amount of dedication to
diving into film because player evaluation. It's just like all
of you guys as casual fans, if you turn on
the right game and you watch Malik Beasley from the

(22:03):
Minnesota Timberwolves, you might think he's a max contract player.
There are days where he looks like Bradley Beale out there,
but then there are other games when it's not so much.
And that's the job of the GM. You have to
consume enough total like content of one player to have
a clear picture of what they actually are like on

(22:25):
a day in, day out basis. You might have to
look at them in different circumstances. It's even more complicated
when you're looking at younger players, like before they make
it to the league, because then you've got to consider,
you know, are they at a college program that's adequately.
You know, that's running a professional enough style of program
to capitalize on what this player in his talent brings

(22:46):
to the table. It's a difficult job, and so I
have a problem with guys like Lebron and guys like
k D being more hands on because they don't have
time to actually evaluate players properly. So I agree from
that standpoint. But at the same time, no one did

(23:08):
point a gun at Rob Blink and make him make
that deal. You guys made the decision to allow whatever
ask Clutch Sports had in this situation, and so as
a result, trying to turn the blame on Lebron is ridiculous.
If that's the case, let's go ahead and pull down
that banner. Let's take down that seventeenth championship banner. Let's

(23:29):
rip it up, Let's make a new one, and we'll
put Clutch Sports on it. NBA champions and hanging up
in Clutch sports headquarters. Because that's the type of lame
mass attitude. This is shirking the blame when things go
wrong and accepting the responsibility when things go right, which
I have a huge problem with. But that set this

(23:50):
has brought an interesting dynamic to the forefront in this
playoff run. You know, you have three major star run
supert teams in the league. You've got Kauai and Paul
George and what they've done with the Clippers. You have
Lebron James and Anthony Davis and what they did with
the Lakers. And you have Kevin Duranton Kyrie and what

(24:10):
they did with the Brooklyn Nets. And all three of
those teams secured precisely zero playoff wins this year. Zero.
So the question becomes, is this mold a failure? Is
it time as a league to move beyond that? Mold
kind of reminds me in the NFL and a little

(24:32):
bit in the n B a of like the coach
GM concept. There was a time period where a lot
of the top tier coaches in both leagues would demand
decision over player personnel in addition to their coaching responsibilities.
And then some years went by and it became pretty
clear based on the results, that even the best coaches,

(24:53):
the hardest working coaches in the league, simply didn't have
enough time to properly evaluate players into make those types
of decisions, and they were too intimately involved to be objective,
and so as a result, now you don't see that
very often. They're handful of cases around the league. Like
I know, Greg Popovich still has some role in player
personnel there in San Antonio, but it's rare, it's unusual

(25:15):
and more it's more of like a consulting type of role.
Should you go ask Lebron, should you go ask Katie
what do you think about this? Absolutely, that to me
is just getting an additional opinion. Diversity of opinion is
a great way to make sure that you don't walk
headlong into a terrible decision. I agree on that on

(25:37):
that side of things. You know, Kevin Durant said in
his postgame presser after Game four, He's like, I just
want to focus on the basketball. I don't want to
be involved in player personnel. Now, whether or not that's
true is another story. There's a whole narrative controlling side
of this thing. But to me, that's the way that
it should be. Do what you do best, keep the
main thing, the main thing. Get somebody in the chair

(25:59):
and the general management. Edition problem is for the Lakers
they don't have that guy either, But get someone in
the chair whose job it is every day to dive
into the tape and figure things out there, and then
the player, you're a basketball player, figure out the basketball.
That's all you have to focus on. That keep the
main thing the main thing. So then the second question
becomes what about the assembly of superstars? Because you saw

(26:22):
both teams, the Nets and the Lakers in particular, go
after the third star in sacrifice depth. As part of
the process, Lakers send off key pivotal role players from
their championship team to bring in Russell Westbrook, and the
Nets send off key role players for James Harden that

(26:43):
they in turn flip for Ben Simmons, and in that
deal they actually got a couple of role players in
Seth Curry and Andre Drummond. So for them it wasn't
as much of a catastrophe. But you saw that happen,
and I think there are two very specific reasons why
I disagree with that strategy. I'm a believer in the
two stars great role player depth rather than three stars

(27:06):
and veteran minimum contracts. And the two reasons why I
believe in that is one, there's a diminishing return with
the third star when you factor in the jobs that
players have on the floor in a five man line up,
especially when you get to the postseason and everybody bumps
up their minutes, and your best players are all playing
forties something minutes, there's a diminishing return for number three.

(27:28):
Had Let's pretend everything went great for the Lakers this
year and Lebron and Anthony Davis stay healthy and they
make it to the first round. There's no way in
the world if Lebron and a d are playing forty
two minutes a game and a playoff game, that you're
gonna have a great deal of on ball responsibility for
RUSSA Westbrook. That's just not the way the game works now.
Russ also struggled in a lot of different ways, so

(27:50):
I'm not alleviating him of responsibility in any sense in
that regard, but strictly in the way that basketball works.
Being the third guy, you have less responsive, thus requiring
less talent. So does it make sense to have a
guy who's overqualified for that position unless you absolutely have to,
And so I disagree with that strategy from that standpoint.

(28:12):
That's the first side. The second part of it has
everything to do with the way that defenses have evolved
and how important it is now to have five guys
on the floor that can capitalize on not being guarded.
We talked a lot about this early in the playoffs.
I said to you, guys, NBA defenses are dangerously close
to figuring out how to adequately double team stars and

(28:36):
rotate on the back end and take away easy open
shots on the back end. It used to be that
you could have a Wesley Matthews, a guy who can
knock down spot up threes, but not a whole lot
else on that week side corner. But now teams are
closing out on Wesley Matthews and getting there in time
off of double teams. So now what you need is
guys that can attack close outs. You need great offensive

(28:58):
players off ball to capitalize on that attention. And so
having a third star and then having really like limited
role players around them causes a predicament where now you
have guys off the ball that aren't talented enough to
capitalize in all that extra attention. This is why having
you know, two stars in great depth is a better model.

(29:20):
Look at the Lakers. Look at how important k c
p was attacking closeouts. Look At how important Alex Crusoe was.
Looking at how important Kyle Kuzma was, Looking at how
important Danny Green was having better offensive players in those
roles that when every team is throwing the kitchen sink
at Lebron and a D, they have lots and lots
of opportunity and they're talented enough to succeed in that role.

(29:45):
You saw there was a playoff game where Mark Keith
Morris made five threes and they could throw the ball
to Mark Keith Morris in the right matchup down in
the post. There was a bunch of different ways to
go about it, and so I think in addition to
the idea of taking control back away from stars in
terms of personnel decisions, they simply don't have the time
to watch enough film to be educated enough to make

(30:08):
those calls. But also get away from this idea that
you need to amass high end talent. If you have
two guys that you can dependably throw the ball to
to initiate offense, you don't need a third. Those two
guys can figure out to give and take, and you're
better off allowing them to be decoys half the time

(30:29):
and take on the the attention and let other guys
go to work. Look at Jayson Tatum, He's just taking
double teams most times down the floor. It's guys like
Marcus Smart making plays. It's guys like Jalen Brown making plays.
This guy like Grant Williams making plays, al Horford making
plays off of the attention that Jayson Tatum is grabbing.
It's a really interesting concept. I'm curious to see over
the over the course of the next few years, if

(30:50):
you see more big threes form, or if you see
more teams take on the two star role player type
of concept. But that's that's just where I stand with it.
I would go with take player personnel decisions away from
the stars and build around two high level players and
get depth because you need quality players around them to
make people pay when they are throwing the kitchen sink

(31:12):
at your stars. Hi, it's Colin Coward. I started the
volume to bring you some of the most apathetic voices
in sports. While you're here, make sure you hit subscribe.
Thanks all right, before we bring Carson on. Oh there
he is. Before we're in Carson on, forget just like

(31:33):
don't forget, Just like Colin said, hit that subscribe button. Also,
we are going to do a mail back, so if
you have any questions about absolutely anything, please drop them
in the chat. And if we have time, and we'll
get to them at the end. All right, Carson, what
do you got from me tonight? Man? We've got a
game here called Real Question, Fake Question, Jason, and the
way it works is we've got real questions from fans

(31:54):
and then we've got questions that I have come up
with which we're calling fake, which I don't know if
I love the branding there. I think they're just as real.
But that's besides the point. So I'll defer to you.
Do you want to start with a real question or
a fake question? Let's start with the real one, all right?
So this is from Georges on Twitter. Do you think
currently it's Boston versus the field in the playoffs? And

(32:18):
if so, which remaining team has the best chance against them? Man?
That the news from Devin Booker really threw me for
a loop. And I am absolutely stunned that they're bringing
him back this quickly. First of all, like I I
understand the threat of New Orleans, but would you pick

(32:38):
against Chris Paul with all of that talent at a
home and game? Like I think they'll be fine. So
like I would have I would have been more hesitant
to bring Devon back but let's and then also when
now that he's back, it makes me nervous because hamstrings
are like arguably the most reinjurable injury that an athlete
deals with. But let's accept, just for the sake of

(33:00):
this question, that Devin Booker is healthy and going to
be fine the rest of the playoffs. Coming into the postseason,
I had Phoenix as a definitive number one and then
a tear below them that Boston was a part of.
So part of me moving Boston up was the Devin
Booker injury, but also another big part of it was
just how dominant they look on the defensive end of

(33:21):
the floor. And so I think it's most likely that
Boston runs into Phoenix in the finals. And then as
I start to think about that matchup, like when you
think about the way that Drew Holiday and the rest
of the Milwaukee Bucks were able to really really shut
down Chris Paul, I think Boston is gonna have some
similar impact there. Yes, Drew, Yes, Devin Booker showed some

(33:46):
amazing shot making versus Drew Holiday in that series last
year in the finals, But I think this Boston defense
is another level above that. So, like I think i'd
pick Boston over Phoenix too. But if you're asking me
which team has the best chance to beat them easily,
it's Phoenix. They've got they're the only team that has
a talent advantage against them in my opinion. But like, man, like,

(34:08):
I know everyone thinks I'm crazy, but like, I think
something special is going on with this Boston defense. I
think the story coming out of that first round series
was Brooklyn choking or Kevin Durant struggling and all the
drama and Brooklyn and Ben Simmons and all that crap.
But meanwhile, Boston just seems to be like a team
that has captured some serious magic. So you mentioned the

(34:33):
son's element of this and the decision to bring book back.
You touched on a little bit, but there's a fake
question from me. Give us more of your thoughts on
that decision, and do you think that that's just a
bad decision flat out? I don't want to say it's
a bad decision because you've got a factor in the circumstance. Like,

(34:53):
you know, what is it that I think it's is
it's Steve Kerr. I can't remember who it is. It's
there's a famous NBA coach that always talks about approp fear.
I think it was Steve Kerr actually, But like I
think if you have an appropriate fear of the Pelicans,
which you should, they're dominating you on the defensive glass
or in the offensive glass. Excuse me. A huge part
of their offense is brandon ingram And and c J
McCollum attacking in isolation. And they had a really bad

(35:16):
game in game five. So there's a version of this
story where they go back to New Orleans, they bully
you on the glass again, c J and Brandon play better,
they win Game six, you'd come back to Phoenix, and
then I mean, I think I think, uh, New Orleans
got it within seven about halfway through the fourth quarter
if I remember correctly last night. So you know, there
is I think an appropriate amount of fear here, and

(35:37):
I think that's what's driving the decision. My thing is like,
it's kind of like Anthony Davis last year against the Suns,
Like rushing him back it almost stands to do more
damage psychologically to your team, because what if Devin comes
back and plays in Game six and pulls his hamstring
again in the second quarter and you have to watch
him limp off to the locker room. There's a massive

(35:58):
psychological impact that that has is on your team. When
Anthony Davis uh gave it a go last year in
Game six and his groin started hurting right away. It
was early first quarter, and I don't know if you
guys remember, but the Lakers were extraordinarily flat the rest
of that first quarter. Meanwhile, Devin Booker got hot, and

(36:18):
next thing you know, they were down by like twenty
or something like that at the end of the first quarter.
So there's a very dangerous game that you play with
bringing back a star that could potentially re injure himself
because there's the advantage off and potentially playing and helping
your team, but there's the potential disadvantage of the discouragement
that comes from him getting reinjured. I sincerely hope that
that doesn't happen. It's just something that I'm worried about.

(36:41):
You mentioned the appropriate fear. I believe that's a pop
is m but is it. Obviously you are balancing those
two factors that you are talking about against each other.
But if you were to say this is what has
to go right for the Pelicans to actually get out,
like if they were to go and in game six
and seven, what would sort of the key things be.

(37:03):
And I know you say it's not particularly likely, but roughly,
how likely do you think it is that they can
do that I had them, I would say they have
like maybe a ten percent chance. It's just the thing
is is when you know what New Orleans depends on
for their offense, which again is brandon Ingram kind of

(37:23):
is like a point forward running a lot of io
and high pick and roll, and then C. J. McCollum
kind of more in the Devon Booker role of just
being a guy who's hunting for his shot when you,
like Michael Bridges was devastating defensively in game five. Almost
everybody that he guarded was not not just shut down,
but shut down in a kind of resounding fashion. And
so the concern there is, I don't I would give

(37:45):
New Orleans roughly a coin flip chance to win game six.
That's fine, but man, the the the chances that New
Orleans goes into Phoenix and wins game seven are so
close to zero that I think it leaves it pretty
damn low. So I'd say maybe around ten per sam,
But the only way that they pull it off as
if c J and Brandon catch a little bit of
that lebron Kyrie two thousand and sixteen Finals magic where
just a couple to three games in a row where

(38:07):
they just don't miss, and then yeah, that could be
the difference, but it's just very unlikely. Yeah, I will
say it felt like to me before Game five it
was more of like legitimate even footing. But part of
that was absolutely You're right, they're so overwhelming and dependent
on that lead shot making n B. I had been
like perfect, you know, I mean, he's thirty a game

(38:27):
on ridiculous efficiency and then you talk about Bridges defense
changing some of those dynamics. So I'm I'm with you there.
Maybe I would put its tall task quick follow up.
And this has been the dynamic that I've talked about
all the season. What have I always told you Guys like, yes,
Chris Paul and Devin Booker are great, but down the roster,
Phoenix is the most talented team in the league, like

(38:49):
and guys like Mikhail Bridges and DeAndre and have consistently
been playing in roles that are much smaller than what
their talent is capable of. And and you compare them
to guys like guys like a Herb Jones for instance,
like compare him to like Michael Bridges. Like in a
tiny role, Herb Jones and Michael Bridges can have relatively
similar impact. Obviously Michael Bridge is a better player, but

(39:11):
in a tiny role there can be a relatively similar impact.
All of a sudden, with Devin Booker out, Michael Bridges
is being depended on more as a shot maker twelve
for seventeen, I think he had like thirty four points
or something like that. In game five was just a
monster offensively, like Herb Jones is not gonna be able
to get to that level. And so at the end
of the day, like it's just so many things would
have to go right. So many guys with the Pelicans

(39:31):
would have to play above their ability, so many guys
for Phoenix would have to play below their ability. I
think the smart money is on Phoenix there, and I
will say, you talk about the talent on this Phoenix roster.
When the book injury happened, one of the biggest concerns
that we discussed was that really high level shock creation
coming because the book is so clearly the Apex guy

(39:52):
and outside of CP there haven't been a ton of
guys who have filled that role and who are really
in like the prototype of ball handler, score play maker combo.
But I have been extremely impressed. I mean you mentioned
the Bridge's performance. He feels like, for the most part,
the ultimate role player, just so good at fitting in
but really asserting himself. Aidan producing at that level, you know,
on that efficiency has been extremely impressive. So you could

(40:15):
argue is better than Avalanchunis. Yeah, No, I think that
that is. I think you would have to argue against
that at this point. I mean, are you talking overall
or just like offensive skill, because I think overall two
way center. Yeah, I totally agree, totally agree. Okay, We've
got another real question for you here, Jason, and you've

(40:36):
touched on this a bit before, but how will do
you think Boston's defense will work against Janice? Will he
be able to attack it more effectively than Kevin Durant
and without Chris Middleton, do they have a chance in
that series which is now booked. This is from Almond
Milk on Twitter. So this is this is this is
the million dollar question, man, and it's been something I've

(40:58):
been thinking about NonStop over of course of the last week.
I cannot freaking wait for this series? Did did they tell?
Did uh? Why did you check for me while I'm
talking when when Game one is? Because I'm so so
excited for it. But the the interesting thing here is,
you know, Joannice and k D both have very different games,

(41:18):
but they're structured in similar ways. There's like a bread
in the butt, there's a bread and butter, and then
there's like kind of like supplementary offense, you know. One
of the things that Joannice, like KD, for instance, Katie
supplements his offense. I did a video about this earlier
in the regular season. Katie supplements his isolation offense with
off ball shooting, like movement shooting, does a lot of
like fighting for position and coming off of pin downs

(41:38):
and taking like these fifteen to seventeen foot wide open
pull up jump shots that he makes like like more
than half the time. And it's it's way, it's his
way of supplementing offense, his isolation offense with easy shots. Well,
Boston completely took that element of his game away, but
because of how physical they were and how willing they
were to switch those screens and just basically to grab

(42:00):
him as he was coming off the screen, so the
easy elements of Katie's offense were completely removed. Well, Janice,
he gets a lot of easy offense just with his physicality.
So whether that's in transition, just putting his head down
and go into the rim, whether that's another it's offensive rebounding,
but not just as an off ball player, but like
he'll pirouette into the lane and throw up a hook

(42:21):
shot and it's not really a high percentage shot, but
Janice knows that, and he just continues to bulldoze his
way into the lane after shooting, grab the ball and
go right back up with it and dunk it because
he's so much quicker off his feet than everybody else
on the floor. And and so he has all of
those elements. And when I look at that, I think
that Janice, I don't think Boston's gonna be able to

(42:43):
shut off those parts of his offense. So I think
Janice is gonna be able to get better easy supplementary offense.
But in the half court, when the game grinds to
the halt, when Boston is in their set defense geared
up on Janice, I think Joannice is going to struggle
Joe used as much as KAD does, so in summation,

(43:03):
I think Joannice has a better series overall because of
his supplementary offense, offensive rebaum, putbacks, transition things like that,
So I think his counting stats will appear better. But
I think at the end of the day, this game
is gonna come down to half court execution. The series
is gonna come down to half court execution, and I
think people are way too quick to blame KD for
how that went and not acknowledge the Boston defense. I

(43:25):
think the Boston defense at many points in this series
is going to make you, honest, look not ineffective, but
significantly less effective than he is going in other matchups,
and so that's gonna be the interesting dynamic here. But
overall he will fare better I would. I would be
shocked at Milwaukee didn't get one game, but I'm leaning
not my final pick yet, but I'm leaning towards Boston

(43:47):
in five, and I think it's gonna overall be ugly
for you, honest. So obviously, as we look at this matchup,
the Celtics are exceptional on how many really high level
defensive weapons they have. But I think an interesting in
question is who is the primary guy on Janice in
this series because you have obviously Tatum is that lead
wing defender. But we've seen teams when they have versatile,

(44:09):
quick enough bigs try to guard Janice with those guys,
and you do have a Robert Williams or Horford. So
who do you think is that guy who Boston should
lean on most? Isn't a combination, just what do you
think is their best approach in terms of personnel. So
you always want to mix up coverage to keep guys
off their feet. So I would imagine I would imagine

(44:31):
that there will be a bunch of different looks. My
guesses they'll start with Horford. Horford is an excellent positional defender.
He's a guy that doesn't reach. He slides his feast defeat,
he absorbs contact with his chest. He's kind of like
your textbook positional defender. That's why he always does well
against really really big players. The trick is it's gonna
be I'm really curious to see what Emayduka's strategy is

(44:53):
in terms of double teaming. I think that you know
because Jannice goes to a lot of like really aggressive
spin moves in like pump makes and pivots and things
like that. I'd like to see them do kind of
what Golden State did to Yokich a lot in this
series and during the regular season, which is double on
the counter move. So let him think he's in single coverage.
Let him make that initial you know, load up in

(45:15):
and and get ahead of Steam and go into Horford.
And then as soon as Horford beats him to the
first spot and he counterspins back, that's when you come
with the help and attack the ball. I think you know,
Boston did an amazing job attacking Katie's handle all series long.
That's why Katie had so many turnovers and struggled so
much dribbling the basketball. Well, Katie, I mean, it's not

(45:35):
it's not some sort of chasm. They're close, but joannice
Is is not a fantastic ball handler in traffic either.
So like and it's not necessarily Katie or Jannice's fault.
It's a tall guy problem. You're just dribbling the ball further.
There's less margin for error there, right, So the thing
is is, like I I would test joannice Is, he

(45:55):
handled NonStop in this series and see if he can
really truly dribble by sending help while he's in the
middle of moves. That would be my strategy. I expect
him to start with Horford, but I bet you'll see
Grant Williams on him. Probably not Robert Williams because Janice
tends to utterly destroy slender centers. Um not that Robert Robert.
Robert Williams is bigger than most people think he is.

(46:16):
But I just don't think that's the perfect matchup there.
I think he'd be better in a help side role.
But I'm really curious. I think email you don't is
gonna have a bunch of stuff up his sleeve, and
and and I'm really interested to see what it is. Well,
you mentioned the excitement for the series. It does tip
at one Eastern on Sunday and we'll be live that night.
Also a little interesting sound out a pole in the chat.

(46:39):
Fifty percent of people say they would take the bucks
to win that series right now out of our chat,
which I think it's very interesting. I think that's I
think that's wild. I'm not saying you guys are wrong,
but I vehemently disagree. I think I'm not saying Milwaukee's
I'm not saying you guys are wrong. I'm not saying
I'm not saying Milah Key doesn't have a chance. They

(47:01):
absolutely do. But again, I think there's a couple of
reasons why Boston kind of like the Lakers, not exactly
the most well liked team around the league because they're
the They're the two winning as franchises, so the other
twenty fan bases hate them. So there's a lot of
anti Celtics bias. There's a lot of anti k D
and Kyrie bias that is leading people to kind of

(47:21):
change their analysis of that series and make it more
about them sucking and less about Boston being good. So
I think the public perception of Boston is still pretty low.
I don't know if you notice this, Carson, but on
fan duel, I believe Boston right now is plus four
sixty to win the title, and I think they have
the third best odds overall behind Phoenix and Golden State,
which I think is absolutely wild. I hopefully this series,

(47:43):
if I'm right, which we'll see, I could very well
be wrong, and I've been wrong before, but if I'm right,
I think in this series people will finally start to
understand just how special this Boston team is Yeah, I
think you, I mean very aptly identified a couple of
the key reasons that people are maybe under selling this team.
I wonder if there's also just sort of a prove

(48:03):
it element or maybe that like they don't have a
consensus top five guy on the planet who's done it
year in and year out. But like, I mean, there's
no denying that. Since I don't know exactly what point
you would pick, but the last thirtysomething games of the
regular season through the playoffs, it Celtics has been the
most impressive team in the NBA. And uh, I'm with you.
I think it's surprising that their odds are still that low,

(48:25):
especially now that they're healthy again. I mean, they are
clicking and they are scary, and I would also take
them against the Bucks. I think five is you know,
that would be very impressive, But I don't think it's
at all out of the question. Really quickly, Carson, I
have a question for you. Is Jayson Tatum a top
five player? No, I don't think so. I think that.

(48:47):
I mean, we discussed this briefly. When he is playing
at his offensive apex, it is like unbelievable peak scoring
wings stuff with some of the playmaking and great defensive value,
and like that's an in same portfolio, especially when you're
dropping thirty and night. I do still think though, that
over a full sample size, there are guys who are

(49:07):
just more complete sevengines when it comes to the scoring
playmaking combo who I would lean on. But also there
are guys who are more easily exposed. I mean, I'm
a huge believer and a guy like Yokich and I
would never drop him out of my personal top five,
But there are things that are more exploitable there. I mean,
I I think even there's a lot of guys basically

(49:28):
who I think have bigger holes in their game at
this point than Jayson Tatum. Like he can do his
job on both ends at an exceptionally high level, but
I don't think he's top five yet. I think we
need to see him sustained, like you said when we
discussed this a bit ago, this level for a longer time. Yeah,
I gotta stick to my own rule here. I'm not
a big believer in rushing people up that list. I

(49:49):
will say this, though, I would not be surprised if
in our wrap up season wrap up pods at the
end of June, if we're having a conversation about Tatum
Legiti being a top five player, because you're right there
there seems to be with his newfound pensiont for playmaking
and and kind of absorbing the double team and and
staying a threat after giving up the ball, that kind

(50:11):
of thing. There's kind of there's they're they're just they're
starting to take shape as a player that doesn't have
a lot of flaws. Like he's all, he's not the
same defensive player that Kauai was at his peak, but
he's already a much better playmaker than Kauai. And and
from the scoring standpoint, like he doesn't have the the
mid range kind of like back to the basket game
that Kauai has, but he's a better off the dribble

(50:33):
three point shooters. So he's kind of like, look this
is I'll just leave it at this. He's he's a
lot closer to like Kauai than people think. That's amazing
that you evoke that comparison, because I was literally about
to draw that myself, and I asked, like, what, really,
how big is the gap between current Jayson Tatum the
level he's been playing at since All Star Break where

(50:54):
we've read off the stats before, but it's just absolutely
ridiculous scoring and a on absurd efficiency. I mean thirty
plus a night on s shooting into these playoffs. Now
he dropped thirty a game against the Nets, and the
playmaking was great and the d defense is really great,
and it's like Kauai is a top twenty something guy
of all time in most people's eyes. And you know,

(51:16):
people view that as one of the most impressive individual
playoff runs ever. And of course there are differences and
there are things certain guys do better, but it doesn't
feel like the gap is all that big right now.
So he sustains this level and I I've always thought
he was like an all time talented guy. It's just
been about making the game easier, you know, getting down

(51:37):
hill more, get into the line, more, developing as a playmaker,
passing out of doubles, all these things that he's doing
consistently being really really high level on the defensive end,
and he's like got it all coming together right now.
It's really pretty remarkable. I think value of reps man.
I don't know if you guys remember was it last
season that Kemba Walker was hurt to start the year

(51:57):
in like Boston really flound heard because Jalen Brown and
Jayson Tatum became the primary initiators and then they ship
Kemba off and they bring in Dennis Schroder, but then
they shipped Dennis Schroder off, and like during that time period,
Jayson Tatum was kind of thrown in the deep end
as the guy who was like the offensive folk rum

(52:18):
and it got ugly a lot of the time for him.
But again, it's the value of reps. And and I
know we're ready to move on from Tatum, but like
we can talk about this guy for an hour because
he's such an interesting player. But I I think it
was the value of reps. And again, I don't want
to give him that credit until he gets the job done.
That I do think he's trending in that direction. And

(52:38):
it is fascinating. I mean, there are so many great
scoring wings who come into the league as you know,
subpar playmakers, but just because of the product of having
the ball in their hands so much, they developed, Like
we have seen it from Book who was basically had
to be a point guard for a couple of years,
from honest Janice, all these guys it's just product of,

(52:59):
you know, putting pressure on defense, having the ball in
your hands a lot. They just improved that almost universally,
and Tatum is a great example of that. Right now,
All right, we've got another fake question. Four years have
now booked their ticket to the second round. They are
still awaiting their opponent. So, Jason, who would give them
more trouble the Grizzlies or the Timberwolves. Oh man, that's

(53:21):
a super super interesting question. Well, the problem because, like,
just strictly from an XS and O standpoint, I want
to say Minnesota because Minnesota is such a good perimeter
defense team and but Minnesota is not a great rim
protection team, which a rim protection team would cause more
problems for a team that likes to slash and attack

(53:42):
the rim all night long. But Golden State's not really
like that. Golden State mostly operates with a vacated paint
and there's just a ton of congestion on the perimeter,
and if they usually can get past that barrier, it's
like wide open layups. One of the biggest reasons why
uh Steph has one of the best interior finishing percentages
for a guard is because he usually is shooting wide
open because the defense is so far extended. Well, Minnesota,

(54:06):
that's where they're at their best is in perimeter defense.
But the reason why I think Memphis would be a
tougher matchup is we just have enough experience watching them
against Golden State, and they've consistently given Golden State issues.
Like just it's just a bad matchup for them on
so many fronts. They don't have great you know, they
don't have anybody that can stay in front of jaw.

(54:26):
You know, they have a lot of big athletes that
can punish them on the offensive glass. They're big on
the perimeter, which is a huge part of why Denver
has been so successful. So I think I leaned towards Memphis.
That's gonna be a really really interesting series, and it's
gonna be nasty, it's gonna be toxic. There's gonna be
trash talk, it's gonna be that's gonna be obviously it.

(54:46):
I talked before this playoff run about how this particular
playoff run was gonna be one of the most interesting
in this era of NBA basketball. But like the second round,
fittingly enough, is just gonna have a bunch of super
interesting series is and that one's near the top of
my list. How much of a chance do you think
the Grizzlies have there? Who it's it's it's not because

(55:13):
I'm leaning towards Golden State, but it's close, Like i'd
probably go like a healthy like it's just the Golden State, Okay, Mike,
we talked about earlier, Memphis is nowhere near serious. Like,
in the same way that Golden State recognized the threat
of Denver and closed the deal tonight, Memphis is the

(55:34):
kind of team that would have lost that game because
Memphis has had such a in and out focus through
this entire playoff from We've talked about it a lot
on this show. So like part of me wants to
lean on Golden State and their decision making and their
savvy nous, but this is just a horrible matchup for them.
And so the question is is the horrible matchup enough

(55:54):
to make up for you know, obviously Golden State having
better perimeter talent, it's a good question. You know, we
talked a lot about Minnesota having a good half court defense.
Memphis also has a pretty good half court defense, with
exception of Jaw He's the one kind of weak link
on that front. So I think, you know, Golden State's smarter,
they have more experience. I'm gonna lean on them in

(56:14):
that regard, but Memphis has a legit puncher's chance to
win because of the fact that it's such a bad
physical matchup for Golden State. They're bigger and almost every position,
and you know, and and again with these kinds of things, Carson,
it's always about, like a lot of it has to
do with how long this series goes. It's so important
for Golden State to steal a game in Memphis and

(56:35):
then to win games three and four because they will
need to end this series quickly. The longer these series
with Golden State go, the more susceptible they are to
physical mismatches, and that's gonna be something that they have
to keep an eye on. Yeah, that's a really interesting
take on it. I feel like the Warriors are pretty
clearly the better back basketball team, but you are righting

(56:58):
that they would be physically an athletic outmatched. I do
feel though the level they have been able to reach
defensively is so impressive, and just the shotmaking right now
out of pool and obviously Steph and Clay, it feels
like that's a lot for the Grizzlies to overcome, just
because it's like their half court offense, in their high

(57:19):
level shot creation. I mean, even compared to the tables,
it's like if you were to tell me one team
would be carried by their offensive stars to a win. Obviously,
Desmond Bayane has been really tremendous at times in the series,
but he's not like that go to bucket getter, initiator
kind of guy you've talked about that. I mean, he's
a score within the flow, phenomenal catch and shooter, all

(57:41):
this different stuff, and so it just feels to me
like that is still an issue with Memphis that can
be exploited that if Jaw is an other worldly you know,
you're relying on an inefficient Dylan Brooks as a second
guy or a Desmond Bayane who you know, it's just
not really his natural role. Triple j is still every
other offensive posession when he initiates, it feel like he

(58:02):
doesn't really know what he's doing. So I just feel
like things are a little smoother or a little easier
for the Warriors on that end right now. So I
would probably put it closer to like Dubs. Honestly, I
feel like there's a bit of a gap there right now,
you're very confident. That's interesting. The offensive fulcrum pieces interesting
because like part of the issue in this series Denver

(58:23):
has been Yokich's ability to just utterly compromise their defense
throughout the entire game, so that even these inferior guards
are just getting amazing looks every time down the floor, right,
And like not that Jaw doesn't have that capability, because
he does. But I think that Golden State is going
to be more equipped and now that will be something
as the series goes Alonge that becomes an advantage for

(58:45):
them as the smarter team. I think they're gonna be
able to figure out more ways to slow Jot down.
So that is an interesting angle there. Well, you bring
up the Yoki dynamic, and I mean in terms of
just making average or media ochre players around him look
good and put them in exceptional position to succeed. I mean,
that's all that he's done all year and throughout last year.

(59:06):
Once Jamal Murray got hurt, is just ut those guys.
We've got another fake question here. Even in defeat, did
Yokich shut the haters up with his performance in this series? Okay,
quick follow up question. Am I considered a hater? No,
So here's where I would classify you, Jason. I think

(59:27):
you're a fair skeptic. I think your criticisms about you know,
having to go out and show that he doesn't have
these weaknesses that can be exploited compared to other like
all time, you know, top five kind of players. I
think that's fair. I don't think that you're a hater.
I would say haters are people who would like argue
that he, you know, certainly didn't deserve m v P,

(59:48):
which you didn't do. I mean, he was your m
v P. Or I saw Charles Barkley the other day
didn't have him in his top ten players. Like people
who I think disregard the context and just blindly make
anti yokich ar events. I don't think you fall into
that category, but I would hope they would have shut
that down. No, I mean I I've always, I've always

(01:00:09):
I've had the respect, the requisite respect of Yoki ever
since that Clipper series and like again, and you you
guys know how much I value playmaking, Like I think
he's in that like exclusive echelon of the top four
playmakers in the league. You know with CP three, Luca
and Lebron and I have a great deal of respect
for that specific skill. So like my my thing is

(01:00:32):
like I'm kind of sick of this conversation the and
I'm not I'm not talking about like the question. I
mean like the question, the conversation surrounding like Yokich is
a floor raiser, Like I'm kind of sick of that.
Like I'm ready to see Javal Murray come back, Michael
Porter Jr. Come back, And to see this team with
some real expectations and see what that looks like. And

(01:00:54):
I want to see because because part of the issue
here is Yokich keeps losing in the first round because
his team has hurt out all the sast year. I
guess he did beat that Portland Trailblazers team, but then
he went out feebly against Phoenix. So it's like part
of me is like I want to see I want
to see Yokis go on a real playoff run like
this now again, the you saw the Lakers give him

(01:01:14):
some issues in the bubble with like throwing Dwight Howard
at him, and Anthony Davis had some success against him.
They were attacking him on the defensive end as well,
although the Lakers didn't quite have the personnel to get
him out of the paint enough. But like I'm just
I'm ready to see the next challenge for Yoki. Like
I've already known that he can raise the floor. I've
already known that he can keep a team relatively competitive
against the team like the Warriors when he has inferior talent.

(01:01:37):
Like I've already seen all of that. So like, to me,
there's nothing really new from Yokichen here. I would and
at this point, like the Barkley types and the guys
that don't have him in their top ten, like they're
beyond saving, Like they're they're not they're either not watching
enough basketball or they're deliberately not paying attention to what
they're seeing. It's just to me, those guys are kind
of like, uh, nefarious characters in terms of actually trying

(01:01:58):
to talk basketball. Yeah, I agree, I would put absolutely
zero stock into that. I think that this does not
change my opinion of Yokis whatsoever, because I think that
you're absolutely right. I mean, if you've watched the guy
play a lot of basketball, there's never been a doubt
about his ability to raise an offensive ceiling, and I
think that. I mean, his postseason production is pretty ridiculous.

(01:02:19):
Throughout his career, he's consistently elevated his raw production, and
he was thirty one, thirteen and six in this series
on almost fifty eight percent shooting from the field. Let
me ask you this, then, I think Yoki is the
best offensive player on the planet. I think that your
defensive criticism is fair. I think maybe at times I've

(01:02:40):
underrated that. What's your reaction to that. I'll make the case,
but just gut instinct, what do you think So the
ability to thrive in any sort of individual coverage but
also have the ability to play make at such a
high level, I think automatically puts you in that conversation.
I I'm always gonna go towards man. The hard part

(01:03:05):
is is like my brain wants to go to like
Lebron or a Steph, but they're both aging, so like
I want a grandfather. The two of them above Yo
kich in that conversation, But I could totally see why
you put yokas on that level. My think the reason
why I always have thought of Lebron as the best

(01:03:25):
offensive engine in basketball is because of that diversity of
his attack, the diversity of his attack. Like Lebron, just
if you're giving him issues on one spot of the floor,
he's just going to a different spot of the floor
and he can thrive there as well. He can do
he has a face up game, he's got a post
up game, he's got a live dribble game. He can
work at a pick and roll, he can work at isolation,
he can score from all three levels. Like that to me,

(01:03:47):
in conjunction with his playmaking, kind of gives him an
extra level of versatility. But it's and it's hard for
me to bump Lebron off that spot after he had
yet another kind of magnificent offensive season on a garbage
team where they were loading up on him just about
every single time he had the basketball. But like, I
totally see why your Kich is in the running there.

(01:04:07):
But again, it's like, I want to see him go
on a long playoff run where he has some ceiling
raising potential with a good team before I kind of
bump him to the top of that list. But I'm not.
I'm not gonna poo poo your idea here at all. Yeah,
I think it's interesting. Another thing that I would say
is a dynamic with Lebron that I think has always

(01:04:28):
given him an advantage comparatively over guys like Steph. To me,
is the physical imposition element where you know, if things
aren't going right from with his jump shot or what
have you. I mean, just brutal dominance. I think, yeah,
just run him over every time. I think it's really impressive.
I just think, you know, the production with your kich

(01:04:48):
is totally historically unprecedented. The efficiency is totally historically unprecedented.
I do think the versatility is also pretty unreal. I
mean he does everything. You know. He is curling around screens,
he is rolling and popping, He's dominating out of the post,
he's pushing in transition. Like, I think he is really
in a class of his own in terms of his

(01:05:10):
ability to just play all these different roles on offense.
I agree with you, Lebron also has you know, incredible versatility,
But I just think the guy is really really something else,
and purely in terms of offense. I do think he's
the best. I think he also, for me, might be
the best player overall in the world. I know you're
not gonna like that take, and I do have obviously

(01:05:33):
some of the same defensive issues I do. At times,
they'll just think the offense is overwhelming enough to where
it's like, I don't know, everybody has their flaws. Janice,
the half court offenses a flaw. Katie I just don't
think compares as an overall offensive engine anybody. And you know,
there's a bunch of guys you can throw into that conversation, Steph,
I don't think the conversation is super complicated now, Like

(01:05:55):
I can't wait till after the season kind of get
in more into the weed of this with you, because
like the truth of the matter is is like it's
so up in the air for me because I did
I had Janice at like third overall behind Lebron and
Katie coming into this run, and and I don't want
to just be like, yes, is the best because I
think he's gonna struggle against Boston. So like I'm really

(01:06:16):
curious to see that. Like this is like this whole
NBA hierarchy is like a snow globe that just got
like shook like a hundred times, and like I'm just
really curious to see where it all lands in the
next month and a half, you know, on equivocally. I mean,
I cannot remember a time in my brief yet beautiful
life that there have been remotely this many guys and
the best player in the world conversation, like not even close.

(01:06:37):
You know, it's been so consensus for the most or
maybe one or two challengers. So it is really fun
and interesting. All right, last question here, Jason, it's another
fake one. We talked a little bit about Charles Barkley.
He called Kevin Duran a bus rider. You reacted to
those remarks. What do you think the last time was
that Charles Barkley wrote a bus? Oh? Like literally or

(01:07:01):
the NBA version, the last time Charles Barkley literally wrote
a bus? Oh man, I'm gonna go with like in
Europe or wherever it was that the Dream Team went.
That's gonna be my guest. Wait, wait, are we counting
like charter bus to the arena? Because if that's the case,
it's probably happened on a road trip. Yeah, that's a

(01:07:21):
good question. I'm gonna say, No, I don't think that
counts as a bus. Okay, like public bus maybe Europe
for the Dream Team, but that's about it. Yeah, was
he on the nineties Olympics team. I have no idea.
That's a really good question. Now, I think he was
dealing with some injuries at that point in his career,
so I doubt it because things went downhill fast for

(01:07:43):
Chuck after he left Phoenix, right, well six is when
he actually went to Houston, Right, Yeah, I think. I
think it's been a very long time. And honestly, I mean,
would there have been a ton of reason for him
to be on a public bus. It might go back
further than that. Yeah, you're right, I think high school. Yeah, man, well,

(01:08:10):
I don't know, maybe college. I mean, I think he's
been living on his palace of Krispy Kreme Donuts for
quite some time. That dude, Charles Charles and Stephen A. Smith,
the two of those guys, the clip that they unloaded
this last week, it's like, oh, man, and you know me, like,
I try so hard to avoid some of that stuff,
but I have to to a certain extent because there is,

(01:08:32):
like you have to leve me some legitimate criticism on
some of these guys, like I mean, Kad like Katie
has always been one of my favorite players. I thought
he was the best player in the world coming into
this playoff run and like he had a really bad series.
Like I can't just sit there and lie about that,
even though I'm a Katy fan, you know, so it's
like you gotta be honest about these kinds of things.
But like, man, Stephen A. Smith and Charles Barkley just

(01:08:53):
went for the jugular over the this last week, and
they're as performative like take artists there's they're unparalleled, and
so like when the two of them get on a
roll like that, it's a site to behold. Man, I'm
telling you, yeah, I I there was a lot of
talk of everybody just the next time that either one
of them would get in front of them Mike because

(01:09:13):
they knew what was coming. Apparently Barkley was on the
nineties six team, so maybe that's maybe that's a candidate. Really,
that's super interesting. Yeah, alright, guys, that is all we
have for tonight. I sincerely appreciate your support. As always,
don't forget to hit that subscribe button on the Volumes
YouTube channel. Don't forget I also do video breakdowns of
almost every game that I watched, So follow me on

(01:09:34):
Twitter at underscore Jason lt so you can get some
video content to back up the things that I am saying.
We will be back tomorrow night, not with the live
show because we're doing some NFL Draft stuff with the
live element of things, but I'm still gonna be recording
reaction videos to all three games. So just stay tuned
to the Volumes YouTube page and you will see those

(01:09:54):
videos there, and then we will take our usual Friday
Saturday off and we'll be back on Sunday for kicking
down what's going to be an unbelievably incredible first round
or a first game of the second round. I appreciate
your guys supports sincerely from the bottom of my heart,
and I'll see you guys tomorrow. The Volume