Frugal Traveling with the NYT Elaine Glusac #625

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and
today we're talking frugal travel with The New York Times.
Elaine glue Sack. That's right. Everyone loves to travel. Who

(00:28):
doesn't enjoy exploring a new country right, or tasting new
and interesting foods, diving into the history and culture of
a new city, or if you are less adventurous at
the very least, I'm thinking like kicking back and living
like a local. That might sound appealing to you, but
the problem is that it's too expensive to travel, or
so you think. Uh, And this is why we are

(00:50):
excited to have a Lane glue Sack, a k a.
The frugal traveler from over over at the Times joining
us on the podcast. Today, we're gonna discuss the tricks
to book the most affordable. We're gonna talk about the
best time of year to travel, maybe Elaine's favorites, under
the radar destinations, and plenty more on the topic of
travel today. Elaine, thank you for joining us. Wow, thanks

(01:11):
guys so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Glad we can pin you down like that. You're not
wandering in Siberia or walking the Great Wall of China
are doing fet right, Yes, in a submarine of those
places are allowable at the moment, but yes, far from OK.
Right now, Well, we're glad to get to chat with you, Elaine.
And the first question we ask everyone who comes on

(01:32):
the show. I'm guessing I could pick probably the answer
to this on your behalf. But Matt and I we
like to splurge. We drink craft beer, and we spend
more than some people think is smart on our craft beer.
But what is something that you like to splot john
in the here and now while you're also saving and
investing for the future. Well, bravo. I also like craft beer.

(01:53):
But beside that, I feel like travel is my big
spl I literally like my car is like twelve years
old and I won't replace it until it dies. And
you know, really, I'm never going to be confused for
a fashionista, but I feel like I want to spend
all my money on travel and and things associated with travel.
But even I guess within travel, I mean that's sad.

(02:15):
Occasionally I will spring for an airline upgrade, like on
a international flight. There's um these airline auctions for upgrade spots,
like like a business class seat and you might get
get an offer and you can bid on it, and
so you might get like a first class seat for
an extra two dollars, and you know sometimes when it's

(02:36):
a fourteen hour flight, you're like, yeah, I think I
can make that, you know, I can, I can justify that. Yeah,
that certainly feels so travel in general, that that seems
like it's more in the vein of work for you.
This is this is what you do. But the that
upgrade that that certainly sounds more personal purpose, right about that? Yeah,
how did you get into travel? You know, you call
yourself a travel addict? Like what led to to your

(02:57):
obsession with traveling the world? Oh? Wow, good question. I mean,
my my family were always really big travelers, and you know,
we just sort of did a lot of road tripping around.
And you know, my parents were the only people that
I knew at the time that like visited Yemen that
weren't in the military or government, like, you know, they
traveled far and wide and sort of instilled that in me.
And and I think, um, once I started my journalism career,

(03:20):
I think gradually you sort of gravitate to, you know,
what really compels you. And and for me, that was
always travel, all right, So how did you get to
become the frugal traveler writer at the New York Times?
And also is it the greatest job on earth? I
think a lot of people sitting on the sidelines would say,
like I got to work every day. A lane's work
is to go travel places and write about it. I'm jealous,
Like what did I do wrong in life? They're not wrong,

(03:42):
Like I have nothing to complain about, Like it's so
great to do what you love is just as it is,
a real blessing. But yeah, you know, I just had
you know, I sort of took a very new sort
of approach to travel, which I think jibed with what's
what the New York Times does? You know? A lot
of travel writers are in it for the works of free,
free travel and stuff, and I sort of thought, well, hey,
no one's really thinking about this as as a business

(04:05):
and industry and how does that affect consumers? And um,
you know, I really just educated myself in the whole industry,
and I think that that sort of gave me sort of,
you know, a good perspective on how to write about
the industry for people that are actually paying for it.
So I guess some of that reporting must have distinguished
me to to my editors, and they asked me to

(04:26):
take the take of the column, which was really an honor.
Very cool. Yeah, that's and that's obviously what we're interested
in the consumer side of things, being able to do
that affordably. But also you just do such a great
job kind of weaving a narrative of traveling, right, so
it's kind of like a like a travel diary in
a sense. But all right, let's talk about airfare when
it comes to international travel, at least that's oftentimes what

(04:47):
you're gonna be spending the most money on one of
the biggest cast centers for Yeah. Yeah, so we've seen
prices on airfare in flight, I think more than anything
else over the past couple of years. Do you think
it's harder to travel frugally given current inflationary environment that
we're experiencing, Well, I'm when it comes to air fairry, Yeah,
there's a lot deriving that. And it's so much more
expensive than the prices of eggs, you know, Like we

(05:10):
know that those have gone up extremely you know, but
I think inflation is up. You guys would know better
than me, Like, is it seven roughly six, all right,
getting a little better. Great, but air fares are up
year every year December, which is that's big, you know,
and that's not just inflation, that's um jet fuel. You know.
The Russia's invasion of Ukraine, of course, had a lot

(05:32):
to do with that. Um so jet fuel fuel is
really high flight cancelations and just sort of the scrambling
of the whole industry in the past two years, and
their recovery has something to do with it. Staff shortages
thanks to COVID and sort of lingering life changes that
people made. The industry is still feeling the impacts of
not having enough people. And I also think airline management,

(05:53):
I think they see that demand is high, and you know,
they're taking the steering wheel and they think they can
get more of where their planes and they're not wrong.
You know, the planes are pretty packed and that allows
them to charge more. So travelers like us just have
to be a lot more flexible and when when we're going,
you know, if you especially if you know where you

(06:14):
want to go. Obviously, if you can be flexible with
your destination, great, but sometimes you have your heart set
on something you just have to find, like the right
time to go there. Yeah. Yeah, if you can be
flexible on both, then you're in the catbird seat, even
in a time anywhere inflation. But you're right, like flexibility
is like probably the number one rule of cheap travel.
I'm curious to know too, Like what's your take on

(06:35):
the low fair airlines? Is it worth booking with those
to save money? We have some here in the US.
We've got Spirit, we got Frontier, there's some in Europe,
there's Ryanair, there's easy Jet. How do you feel about
these low cost airlines and is it worth most people considering?
Are the trade offs worth it? Great question? I I

(06:56):
think it's kind of a complex issue. I think consumer
or consumers to sort of figure out what am I buying.
They're gonna see like forty dollars to Las Vegas, you know,
from Chicago, and then be like that's amazing. But then
they're going to find out let like everything costs them extra,
even like your purse or your backpack they are carrying
on these rock bottom fears have all these extra fees

(07:18):
that you'd really have to sort of figure out which
will be charged to you before you can compare them
to like a carrier, even like Southwest or let alone
American Delta United, So you have to do some financial
calculations to even know if you're looking apples to apples.
So I find that with slating and I and I
hate the nickel and diming. I mean, nobody likes that.

(07:39):
I feel like you're always getting these surprise fees that
come out of nowhere, and then it's sort of like
you know it starts on a trip and bad footing.
But another concern that I have is it's it's really like,
what is your time worth the risks of delays with
um these smaller carriers that have these really cheap flights
are greater because they don't run a lot of these

(08:00):
routes a lot. So like if they only go to
Sara Soda, you know from Charleston, like two times a week,
and weather cancels that that Tuesday flight, there might not
be a flight till Friday, and they they don't have
to accommodate you, they won't and so you might get stuck.
So you've got three extra nights that you have to
pay for. So I feel like you don't have as
much control over your itinerary. I wouldn't make an exception

(08:22):
like This is when I make an exception if it's
a low cost carrier that flies around a lot. So
you know, if something goes wrong, I can you know,
get probably get another flight with them. And I have
very little luggage with me, so like I did Spirit
to Las Vegas with just a tiny backpack that I
didn't have to pay for. I think it fell underneath

(08:43):
the yes you can take a burse kind of thing
um and that worked out fine, and it was extremely cheap,
and you know, I was fortunate was on time, But
like under other circumstances, I would really think hard about
it makes sense to consider all of those different factors
before looking the absolute cheapest. Right. Fine, So you mentioned Southwest?

(09:04):
What happened with them? What happened over the HOD and
do you do you think that fiasco should make make
folks reconsider flying with them. They they're this beloved carrier
and I think they're like number maybe number three overall,
end of But yeah, do you think that's going to
impact how folks view Southwest and whether or not they
should fly with them. Yeah, they had such a golden

(09:26):
halo around them. You know, they didn't they never charged
for bags. They were really flexible in their in their
UM you know, cancelation policies, and they were really doing
things right, but you know, behind the scenes, what really
happened is of course the weather, and they were pre
emptive cancelations. But what really tied things up in the
not was this antiquated UM scheduling system that they have
for cruise and apparently they didn't know where people were,

(09:49):
where aircraft was and it was hard to sort of
unscramble at all, which was a huge black eye for
their image of course UM. And apparently it's going to
cost them over eight hundred million or something to make
it right with I sort of, I mean, I don't
know if I would necessarily punish them myself, think that,
you know, all things considered, Like I said, they do

(10:10):
have some really good consumer friendly policies about baggage and cancelation,
and I do think they are making a commitment to
upgrade those UM systems, and I would be shocked if
something like this ever happened again. It's going to be
so punitive for them. Yeah, I agreed, you you lose
that much money, and it's kind of like, let's learn
from that mistake and let's make sure not to make
it again, because yeah, it's it's bad for your bottom line,

(10:31):
but it's also bad for the customers who have grown
to love you over such a long period of time.
Uh So, one of the things we were talking about
Elane right before we hit record was you were talking
about how traveling on Tuesdays and Wednesdays can make the
most sense when it comes to saving money. Like, what
are your top suggestions, like the specific days you fly?
How do we get the cheapest flights, especially if let's

(10:51):
say we're avoiding the flights that look the absolute cheapest
when we're searching searching Google flights, because maybe there are
other ancillary fees involved. How do we how do we
go about finding that sweet spot cheap flight wise? I mean,
I feel like it does take a lot of effort.
I use like Google flight tracking a lot. Like if
I think to myself, like I've been tracking a flight

(11:12):
to bun Air. I want to go to bun Air,
um and um do some scuba diving, and um I've
been looking at that for a while. And the cool
thing about that is when you can tell Google this
is where I want to go to the route and flying,
can you please find um the cheapest states and so
it'll update you, you you know, periodically, as long as you
tell it to, and it'll it'll let me know, like, oh,

(11:33):
you know, March seventh to the eleventh, there's a flight
for you know, three and fifty dollars um. And that's
the cheapest we can find in this season kind of thing.
I find that really helpful. I rarely fly on those
like popular days like a Friday and a Sunday, because
they're just everyone is doing the long weekend kind of
thing or trying to do the weekend. I know that
workplaces have really busted open and people are sort of

(11:55):
working remotely a lot, but weekend travel is still very
popular or so I just sort of shy away from
those generally, and I love to go. I love to
travel midweek anyway, just get away from the crowds. Okay, yeah,
midweek that makes sense. And uh talks about other things too,
You've written about like hidden city fairs. Are those still
worth pursuing to save money? And if so, how do

(12:18):
you find those? So those are a little complicated, Um,
they can be good. Again, you need to do a
lot of research on this, and there is a website
devoted to finding these for you. And it's called skipped
lagged skip lagged dot com. So hidden cities in case
your listeners don't know, is if you are booking a flight.
Let's say I just read a really good example of

(12:38):
this on Scott's Cheap Flights, which is another site that's
really worth looking at if you're strategizing about budget budget
flights now known as going Yes, Yes, I think about
that rebrand by the way, I don't know, like I
felt like Scott was so allied with the brand. Um,
well I'm still calling it that and you have to

(12:58):
get over yeah, yeah, yeah. So they used this example
where it's like Chicago to Paris, but no, it was, um,
Milwaukee to Paris, and but you were really just trying
to get back to Chicago, and so the actual, the actual, um,
what you actually want to do is get back to Chicago.
But you book a flight to Milwaukee that stops in

(13:20):
Chicago and route to Milwaukee, but you get off in
Chicago and therefore forfeit that last leg, and sometimes that
three legged flight can be less. Based on the vagaries
of airline ticket pricing models, it's not as really as
complicated as it sounds, but it's a little more dangerous
than it sounds in the sense that if you do

(13:41):
it on the way out, if you don't make one
of those legs of your flight, the airline will cancel
your forward ticketing. So anything after that missed flight. So
you could do it, you can really only do it
as a one way ticket, so again that's a lot
more finagling doing to sort of one ways with the
hidden city form, uyella, you can, so, yeah, how much

(14:04):
time do you have? It may not be worth it.
It feels like one of those spaces where it's for
The rules are changing a little bit too, because it
isn't something that they want to see you doing there
saying that, hey, it's a security issue and all the
other things the airlines are flags that they're raising. A
few years ago tried to shut down skip Blagged as well.
But skip blagged I think when a court case, right,

(14:26):
and so it's kind of funny like they don't like it,
they don't want you to to do in that, but there
are ways if you're lucky and you're flexible enough to
save No, I totally agree, but it does start of
remind you like, hey, don't just look at a round
trip ticket. Maybe just look at two one ways. I've
done that a lot, especially when I got to California. Um,
you know, because sometimes you'll get maybe a great fear
in Southwest on one leg and you'll come back and

(14:47):
United on the other because the Red Eye was okay.
You know. It's just it's worth looking at one ways
and then comparing them to the round trips. I love it. Yeah. So,
speaking of late layovers, we're planning to do a Scotland
trip the spring and uh and it includes a twenty
four hour hang in London on the way back. So
what are your thoughts on that. Are are long layovers

(15:08):
you think a good way to to hit up multiple
cool spots or was this a cheap move on our part? No?
I mean I don't mind that because you're already so
close to your destination and I mean London is so diverting.
I mean, twenty hours in London could be really, really fun.
You can take obviously the train in you know, from
Heathrow and um, you know, anything you can do. I

(15:29):
love London walks. They're like five pounds and you get
these amazing walks like Shakespeare's London or Dickens London, and
it's led by an actor, and it's like extraordinarily diverting
for five pounds, or it might be more. Now I'm sorry,
please don't quote me on that, but inflation. Hey, it
depends on how strong of a dollar might be. That's
a good point. It might be more affordable. Yeah. No,

(15:51):
I don't think it's a bad move at all. I mean,
you're you're on vacation, right, Like that sounds like a
really like great excuse to just kind of go wild.
I mean, it's such a great walking city. It's so
easy to get around, um two and the two if
you just want to, like, you know, go from neighborhood
to neighborhood. I think it's a great move. I think
you're gonna have fun. Okay, cool, cool, I like that. Yeah,
and I think it's a way so about it killed

(16:11):
two birds with one stone, get that other place in Sadly,
we've not been to Scotland. I haven't been to London
yet either, so to get to see both, even though
London for a short period of time, I think it's
kind of a fun way to get to do both.
I mean, the take galleries are all free. It's just
it's it's a great city. I think it's a great
city to go cheap into. Awesome. Well, all right, Elane,
we have more questions to you get to where you
want to talk about timing. We want to talk about

(16:32):
lodging and transportation, and then how you go about paying
for the trip as well. We'll get to some of
our questions on those fronts right after this. Alright, we're
back and we are talking with the frugal traveler herself,

(16:53):
Elaine Gluzac. Elaine, what are some of your favorite sites
for booking hotels and cars? We just talked about finding
the most affordable airfare right before the break. Let's talk
about lodging and transportation. How do you score the best
deals there? Well, I usually start pretty generally with Google
is with regard to hotels, I just kind of see,
I want to see what's out there. But I have

(17:13):
to say a lot of times I find Google lowballs
the fairs, the rates that they're charging at hotels, because
I always go directly then to the hotel to see
if Google's right, and Google is wrong a lot. I
don't know if you guys have never found that, but yeah,
they seem to lowball rates. Somehow they're misleading, You're making
you think it's going to be cheaper than it actually is. Yeah,
I think. And who knows, maybe the you know, I

(17:33):
don't know how their algorithms work. Maybe they're looking at like,
you know, the lowest of low season fairs or rates,
you know, and this is what they come up with.
And I always go back to the hotel and I'm like, hey,
it's not ninety dollars, it's two fifty dollars. It's like
way different. But it's a good it's a good place
to start to at least see what's out there. Obviously, Airbnb,
I use that a lot. Airbnb is obviously not as

(17:56):
cheap as it like seemingly was when it started. So
many more fees now, and sometimes the fees are not
you know, you sort of don't realize that, hey, that
one night place has a fifty cleaning fee. I feel
like the consumer has to be so um has to
really look at you know, look at that final page
before you hit by. It's it's so important to look

(18:18):
at all the fees. And everyone's doing it, you know,
even the hotels with like resort fees and stuff. I
usually book direct wherever I'm going. I don't really use
o t A S or online travel agencies. UM. Sometimes
they offer a little bit lower rates, but I feel
like you lose a bit of control. I feel like
the hotel value to a little bit more if they

(18:39):
don't have to pay the middleman. And sometimes that can
pay off in how you're treated at the hotel or
a room that you get. UM. And I find that
the price difference isn't that great that it warrants me
like saving five dollars. So I guess it sort of
depends on how strict you are on your budget. But
I feel like some things are worth paying up for. Yeah,
I think you're right. I think the price discrepancy between

(19:02):
something like booking through price line or versus the hotel
directly was there's a pretty big gap, probably five, seven,
ten years ago, but that gap seems to have closed
quite a bit. Yeah, and think hotels have really tried
to do that and really encourage people to book with
them directly, and and and given people perks to do
so because they don't really want to give away that

(19:23):
money with with rental cars, like again, it's sort of
like going to the general UM. I do like the
search engines. I use Kayak for a lot of stuff
and flights especially um, but you can do it for
rental cars. I find turo uh t u r oh
dot com is a good site if you want to
rent somebody else's car, which is kind of nice in
some situations. I wanted to get an electric vehicle once

(19:46):
in Colorado, um, and they're really hard to find at
the major car rental agencies. So I used Turo and
I got this amazing um Nissan Lee for like, you know,
fifty dollars a day. Obviously didn't have to pay for gas.
So that Turo is people are onto Tourro. I have
to say, like the rates who seemingly used to be
a little bit better, but Touro has gotten wise to

(20:07):
itself and so it's it's rates can sometimes like be
similar to other car rental agencies, but it's worth really
looking at them as an alternative. They usually are less
than what like Avis Hurts thrifty or charging. Okay, yeah,
just another place to look for sure. And you've actually
you've written about so besides staying hotels and airbnbs, you've
written about staying at different places for free. How how

(20:30):
would one manage to maybe go on a trip and
get free lodging are there's certain sites, as are certain
like swaps that you have to do, Like how how
can people make that happen? Oh? Um, I guess you know.
Probably the best way to do that would be to
do to be a house sitter. Trusted house Sitters dot
Com is the is a is a big one here

(20:51):
in the United States, and they have how sits globally
and usually you're a little bit at the whim of
where they are versus like where you want to go.
I find it most attractive if you're a little bit
flexible with your destination. But there's some amazing places that
people want need people to watch their house, and usually
it's like you also have to walk their dog or

(21:12):
pee their cat. But people who love it and have
done it successfully use it as a way to really
see the world at a bargain rate. And they also
extol the benefits of sort of being a local, really
living like a local, Like you're walking someone's dog in
their neighborhood, you know you're going to meet other dog owners,
so it's kind of a nice perk and it is
absolutely free. I mean, I think you have to have

(21:32):
a like a nominal membership hunterd dollars or something um
to the site, and you do have to be selected,
you have to apply, But that's a great way to
stay somewhere for free. Very cool, Elaine. I want to
ask you about destinations I'm curious of if you've got
any favorite and expensive under the radar destinations in in particular,
I would love to hear if you have some more

(21:55):
affordable alternatives to more popular spots, right and so oftentimes
for a lot of folks. Hawaii that's a destination that
folks will talk about for for a while. It's a
spot that my wife and I that we've discussed before.
But if we're like, well, is there a more affordable
poor man's Hawaiian, I'd be curious to hear if you
had some affordable alternative destinations for folks that are just

(22:18):
kind of under the radar. It's actually a great question
because I was looking at Hawaii last fall and I
was like, oh my gosh, this is this is nuts.
I cannot I cannot go there. And it's like looking
at Kawai and I was like, wait a minute, there's
not a hotel under like four hundred dollars here. They
have stripping over your title. The frugal traveler. They'd be like, sorry, Lane,
everybody wants to go there. The prices are through the roof.

(22:39):
It is crazy. So you know, we're and I ended
up going to the Azores. Um. So, the Azores are
Portuguese islands that are sort of in the Atlantic, I
guess seven hundred miles or so east of Lisbon. And
I got there and um, you know, I was attracted
to it because it's you know, volcanic islands, great hiking,
wonderful waterfalls or even surfing. And then when I got there,
the Europeans, Yeah, the Europeans were like, oh yeah, it's

(23:00):
the Hawaii of Europe. And I'm like, okay, that makes sense.
But you know, it's it's on the euro um and
at that time it was one to one. We were
there in the fall. It's still really good. It's like
two cents to the dollar. I'm saying that there a
dollar gets you ninety two year old sins. Yeah. We
went in the off season. I think, you know, you
might want to avoid like European vacation, which is you know,

(23:23):
August July. But we were there in October and it
was exceedingly mild, wonderful, hiking, like you could still hike
to a waterfall and go in the waterfall. It was
really beautiful. UM. Food, food was a bargain. We were shocked,
you know, lodging was affordable, like I thought. I thought
it was great. Fine, I still want to go to Kauai.

(23:44):
I just have to find a better time. I guess. Okay, cool, No,
I like that. And I think, for a while, I
think Delta was flying NonStop to the Azores from Atlanta,
so for us, that's there you go. And UM, I
think United does it seasonally out of Newark. We took
as a line out of Boston and it was like,
I mean, it's like a five hour flight, so it's
really easy too. But yeah, I mean so that brings

(24:06):
up a point to make about an exchange. Exchange rates
so obviously great places to go our you know, our
exchange rate friends like Canada UM and Mexico UM. For
so long, both of those have been a great bargain.
You know, when you exchange the dollar, you get you know,
such value UM in both of those places. So I

(24:27):
think I think Canada gets overlooked a lot. And it's
it's UM, it's US. It's like thirty off. Basically, it's
it's really great. I think South America has a lot
of value and for some reason we in North America
don't think about them. But every time I've been down there,
I'm like, it's extraordinary, and um, I don't find the
cost of living very high, highly recommendable into it's cheaper

(24:49):
once you get there. But it feels like we've always
had or at least over the last decade, cheaper flights
to Europe that we've been able to get to South America,
which has kind of been frustrating. Yeah. There, well, a
lot of the South American your ears, like Avianca and
even Copa out of Panama now has some really good
fares um and they'll go you know, you might have
to connect through Panama, but they're pretty good. I went

(25:11):
down to Ecuador last May, and I was pretty excited
about it. I want to say, like I don't want
to say my fair round trip was about which I
didn't think was that bad considering that it is. As
far as going to Europe, I think that was on Arianca. Yeah, okay,
all right. So when you're making purchases overseas, when you're traveling,
are you using credit cards? Are you into credit card points?

(25:34):
What do you tell folks when they're talking like trying
to figure out how to pay for travel. We of
course don't want people to use a credit card and
then not pay it off, but it's also typically the
best tool, we say, for people to be able to
pay for pay for things overseas when it comes to
exchange rates and avoiding fees. But what, yeah, what are
your thoughts? How do you spend money when you're abroad? Yeah?

(25:56):
I do always use a credit card just because I
want those points, and I also at the better exchange
I want the better exchange rate that you get through
the bank and you're going to get, you know, using
dollars or any other form really taking out money, taking
out cash. I mean points people are real specialists. You
guys probably know them and you probably have interviewed them.
And I feel like it's a real specialty to really

(26:18):
maximize the use of your credit card points. Um. I
find that it requires a level of attention that I
don't have and I'm really bad at it. Like I
do use my points for flights and stuff like that.
But um, you know, the points guy has a new
app um that aggregates all your points. So it's it's
kind of a good starting place for anyone that wants
to see how wealthy they are on paper with all

(26:39):
their points, and then you'll spin that into a trip
like I do. I do recommend that I do have
that on my phone, and every once a while I
look at and I go, oh man, I'm like, I'm like,
I'm like huge in American airlines. I need to go somewhere.
I got to spin that thing down like the warm
buppet of frequent flyer miles. Points are just burned a
whole night. And the thing is they say points constantly

(27:01):
to value, so it's like, don do not hoard them
like you need to use them? So I do. I do,
actually try to use my a lot, and sometimes I
use them for upgrades. Very cool. And so last summer
you wrote about how cruises, how they seem to be
a solid option for folks who are looking to travel
and and not spend a ton of money, you know.
They I feel like cruises went from this thing that
everybody was trying to everybody was staying away from around

(27:23):
the beginning of the pandemic, with folks who are just
like never gained and locked on a boat for thirty days.
But the attitudes have changed, and if that's where the
deals are, should we consider them? What would you what
would you say to that? I mean, yeah, you can
get on a lot of really inexpensive cruises for sure,
like especially in popular places like the Caribbean and Alaska.
Like you can do seven days in Alaska for four

(27:46):
so that's your lodging and all your food. Yeah. I
mean I've never pretty good, so I've never been on
a cruise before. Maybe I should consider it. If I
was going to do one, I think Alaska would be
my number one. Yeah, let me see, would be up
there and Iceberg get calved? Yes, yes, you want to
see that. You know, there's like um in the cruise industry.
They'll say that there are ship cruises and there are

(28:07):
destination cruises. Like ship cruises are like you're really there
for the ship, like maybe in the Caribbean, but like
Alaska's a destination cruise, like you want to go there
to like get off the ship and do stuff. And
the cool thing about Alaska is that like you kind
of don't have to pay for expensive excursions to really
enjoy it, Like you can get off and just go hiking,
you know, and it's amazing, and they get that kind
of ship you know, and have like fish and chips

(28:28):
in port. You know, it's it's it's like pretty awesome. Anyway.
I love Alaska. I'm kind of an Alaska geek, so
so yeah, I think cruises can be a good place
for for value. You kind of got to watch it there.
I feel like they do always try to upsell you,
especially when it comes to like alcohol and onboard purchases, um.
And they do want you to take their excursions, and
they tend to like scare you. Oh if if you

(28:50):
go with someone else who's not you know, certified by
our ship, then and if you miss the boat coming back,
then you know, we have no liability. But you know
you're not going to do that. I am a big
proponent just getting off the ship and wandering around and
you know you're gonna have a great time without about cruise,
where would you tell people to go, because like the flights,
it's a little easier to track and get, but it's

(29:13):
when you when you're like trying to figure out where
to go to book the cruise. I don't want to
go to carnival dot com, right, Like where do I
want to go to check out like the best fairs,
best rates for a bunch of different cruise ships. Yeah,
I mean it's um a little bit of unexpected answer.
But like travel agents really have this market sewn up,
Like they have a lot of power in the in

(29:33):
the cruise industry, and if you book through one of them,
usually they can get you better perks and placement on
the ship and and you know, maybe a few extras.
So it's not often that I would recommend a travel agent,
but a lot of them really kind of know their industry. Um,
and it's it can be really hard I think for
someone who's never cruise before to say, like what do
I want? You know, there's like so many ships to

(29:55):
choose from. You know, what's what's a good value, what's
the right one for me? And I think like in
that case, you might want a specialist And as I said,
they can often give you, like, if not a better rate,
they can get you some perks. Yeah. Well, so on
that note, I mean so Costco, Sam's Club, the warehouse clubs,
they've got their own their own travel programs, um triple
A like that membership often comes with discounts as well.

(30:18):
Does it make sense to turn to some of those
programs if you're looking to book travel, whether you're looking
at cruises or other types of travel. Yes, I think so.
I mean people that I haven't done that myself. I
think we have. We do have Triple A membership, I
mean just for road tripping, and I think we get
like ten percent off of the major branded hotels, which
we don't stay at a lot anyway. Um, but you know,

(30:40):
people swear by Costco for trips. Um. Like people have
even told me like their safaris are amazing. I'm like,
really interesting, Well, Joe swears my Costco no matter what.
And to be able to go on a safari that
also says Kirkland signature on it, I think you'd be overjoyed.
I've got the Kirkland signature lower back tattoo lane, so
you go. And I think, like with rental cars, though

(31:01):
they always have good deals, I feel like if you
can't get ten percent off your rental car, you're not
like getting the bust deal because I feel like that's
available in so many ways. Well, we've got a few
more additional topics and some more questions to get to Eline,
including Joe and I we both got a lot of kids,
and we're starting to consider traveling more with our kiddos.
So we're going to ask you a question about that

(31:23):
and more right after this. All right, let's keep going.
We're talking about frugal travel with Elaine Gluzac from the
New York Times. She is the frugal traveler and Elaine,
I want to ask to, like, one of the things

(31:44):
that can help save money, right is taking a longer trip. Granted,
for most Americans, it's hard to get away from work
that long. It's hard to take a month and a
half long sabbatical. But yeah, do you prefer I'm curious,
do you prefer long travel short travel? Do you like
to you know, be an place for an entire month
where it's going to cost more overall, but you're gonna
have a lower price per day? Like, how do you

(32:05):
think about the timing of travel? I think, if I
didn't have this job, I'd probably stay longer, but usually
I have to go onto the next thing. But I thought, um,
you know, because a lot of times, if you're going abroad,
the biggest ticket item is going to be that flight,
you know, So if you can stay longer, you're sort
of like amortizing that that price out obviously better for
the environment as well. But um and often like airbnb

(32:28):
s will have discount discounted rates for longest days um
of two weeks or more, so you can get like
ten or off, which is really great. I would love
to stay longer, and I know more people are doing that.
For me, it's just a little bit harder, I will
say that, I am, I am, I am trying to
take a little more time. I think before the pandemic
of the treadmill was running a little too fast. Do

(32:50):
you I mean, do you have any additional tips? So,
I think there's a lot of folks out there who
are starting to realize that they can potentially live that
digital nomad lifestyle. Right. It's so, yeah, what what do
you know? What you have for folks who want to
travel NonStop um and able to work from wherever. Yeah.
So the good news is that there's a lot of um,
you know, this is happening, and there's travel industry is

(33:13):
adapting to this, and they're pretty excited about it. Like
and in addition to you know, just regular hotel and
hostile companies breaking into this, there's a brand called Selena
s c L I n A, which is kind of like, um,
it's kind of like a hostile meets a coworking space,
and you can you can literally stay there for four
a month, which is like really good. I don't I

(33:33):
don't know anyone who pays for hunred dollars a month
and rent, Like it's really good. Obviously you still have
you know, your living expenses, food and entertainment and things.
But but um, it's a great way to go. And
they have locations all around the world, and then they
really set up for people that are actually working, um,
you know, great WiFi, good connections, working spaces, meeting spaces.
It's so much easier now to do what you know,

(33:55):
pioneering digital nomads were doing, you know, so long ago,
and just a few locations. You know, like people you
should just go to Thailand, you know, because it was
really affordable and stay there from mouth. Now you can
go all over the world, um, with someone like Selena
and just and make it really affordable. That's actually where
my little sister is right now. She's hanging out in Thailand,
and it is I've been there. It is dirt cheap
and absolutely lovely place to visit. But Yeah, it's interesting.

(34:19):
I think you hit on something great there that probably
needs to be even reinforced that a digital nomads, I
feel like, can live cheaper than they're just American based counterparts,
because there's I just feel like there's so many ways
to travel inexpensively, to stay places and expensively to pinpoint
the places that you visit right to make sure that

(34:41):
your travel actually cost you less than your life back
at home. Oh yeah, for sure. And a lot of um,
a lot of governments are making it easier to do
this too by offering these nomads sorry visas um too,
remote workers or even retired people with a certain income level.
They're really a courting these people that will stay for
a long time and support their economies. And as you note,

(35:04):
like Thailand, um, Ecuador, Greece, a lot of these places
are just full of nomads, whether they're like seniors or
like your sister, who's probably not she's not living there,
she's just visiting. But she's the kind of person I
could totally see, you know, just leaving this country and

(35:25):
saving a lot of money and living kind of kind
of that international nomad lifestyle. Yeah, yeah, alright, so I
kind of alluded to this all right before the break.
But Jule and I we we feel that we're starting
to get to the stage where we can do some
bigger family trips now that we're out of the newborn stage.
That being said, under a lot of folks travel with
their babies as well. But do you have tips for

(35:47):
making family travel less painful? You talked about how you
and like while you were a kid, yelling on a
lot of road trips. Obviously that's the most affordable way, right,
It's like you don't buy six sprobly in the station wagon,
all get in the car and pay for Philip one
tank of gas. But I would love to hear your
tips here. Yeah, I mean I am a huge proponent

(36:10):
of family travel. I mean I think start early and
go often. I just you know, I just think the
value of travel can't be overstated to like a hungry
growing mind, um, like a child's um. I think it's
so important. And and as you said, like road trips
are great. You know, basically you've got your traveling living
room right, Like nobody knows what's happening in your car.
There their children napping, there's cheerios everywhere. It's fine, Like

(36:33):
nobody has nab all of it. Yeah, and you know
you don't have to go yeah, and you don't have
to go far to find adventure, Like you can go
camping down the road, you know, we're starting your backyard,
you know, or take your bikes out for day trip,
like obviously you have to mind their like energy levels,
and that's when the car always comes into candy, Like, okay,

(36:56):
throw you in here now we're all napping. But yeah,
so starting with road trips, of course, I think camping
is great kids kids love that. And I also think
like the challenge of like sort of living off the
grid is really fun for everybody, Like, hey, how do
we start a fire, you know, and how are we
going to cook this dinner? We don't have like a microwave?
How do we make popcorns? You know? These are like

(37:17):
great challenges and and really fun for kids. I I
was just in death Faily National Park doing a camping
trip myself. I did a van trip actually with a friend,
and um, we were we were like hiking through these
canyons and it was just like this. We were like,
this is the most amazing living playground. And then just
as we said that to each other and we both
have kids. We turned around and we saw this like

(37:37):
dad and his son and then the sun was like
walking on these ledges and jumping down into the sand,
and you know, the dad would do it. And I
was like, oh my god, that's like that's exactly why
we travel, right to unplug and and have all these great,
these great memories together. Yeah. Well, your story there just
makes me think too. Do you feel like with the
advent of like cheap airfare to Europe and stuff like that,

(37:59):
that we're like travel inside this country is underutilized. I
feel like there's so many great destinations and maybe we're like,
I mean, I lived, I live in this country, even
though it's so diverse. There's fifty states, there's like tons
of national parks to go see, there's amazing things to
go do that we just kind of underrate domestic travel.
Oh that's a good question. I don't know. I yeah,

(38:21):
for sure, domestic can be um more affordable when you're
you know, paying for the whole clan. I will say
one thing in the European corner is that I do
find that the the cultures there are super family friendly
and in a way that we're not. I feel like
family friendly in the United States is shorthand for like, oh,
send the kid to Disney, which is not I mean,

(38:43):
that's not the way that I want to raise my kid.
It's not what I'm into. I don't like theme parks.
But I felt like if I went to Spain, like
I'd be allowed to take him to like nice restaurants
and um and everyone would be okay with that. And
you know, you could take them to the Coogan Heim
and Bill Blau and no one's gonna like look at
you sideways if he goes wow a loud, you know,
like like it's a pretty tolerant um uh like clan

(39:06):
friendly um culture. So I always thought that that was
kind of a nice thing to introduce your children too,
when they're small enough to realize that, you know, there's
cultures that treat you like full individuals, um, not just
like I guess to be heard, you know, seen and
not heard, which I do feel like. I do feel
like it's somehow like it's very infantalizing here the way

(39:27):
they treat children, and I would I sort of prefer
the European approach, But as you said, there's so many
like natural wonders to see here. UM. And you know,
start start wherever you can afford, is my advice. I
love it. Yeah, I like that approach to you. How
you're talking about kids, um, how maybe maybe they shouldn't
be second rate citizens yea, like, should treat them more

(39:48):
like adults and they will be able to grow into
that to a certain extent. But more than anything, I
think hearing your stories and you naming all these different
destinations and going on a trip with a girlfriend here
and then you know, going up to Canada or or
Alaska doing fishing or whatever, you know, hiking like these
are also inspiring and hopefully folks have been able to
feel encouraged maybe to get out there. Guy, I got

(40:11):
bit by the travel bug again exactly, But I mean
generally speaking, you know, travel it's one thing, but frugal
travel that is another. UM. And so do you have
any final additional advice, maybe that we haven't covered yet
for our listeners out there who want to book some
more frugal travel. Yeah, I think that, Um, one of
the things that traveling well requires is a fair amount

(40:33):
of research. So I like the planning. It sounds like
you guys do too, Like I find it really intriguing
to say, like I want to go to Scotland, but
where do I want to go in Scotland? And I
need to read a book in Scotland and figure that out.
Like I love doing that and um, it's half the
fun is dreaming about it. It totally is, and you know,
and the anticipation and all that stuff, but not everybody does.
So I get that, you know, and for those people,

(40:56):
they might want to outsource their planning, you know, to
someone who is an expert, because they don't have time
to become like an expert in Scotland in the two
weeks that you have to plan this trip. And so
you know, there's an industry for those people. It's called
travel agents and um, and there are a lot of
good ones. But I think if you're you know, a
frugal traveler and you're looking for a travel agent, you
need to like basically find someone who gets you, you know,

(41:17):
like basically interview them and let them know what your
budget is and are they willing to work with that.
I think there's so many travel agents now that you
probably can find some people. There's a lot of home
based travel agents. Um. A lot of that work is
very remote and part time for people. So I think
there are a lot more options. It's a little bit
hard to find them. I'm not saying it's it's going
to be easy. So that might be your you know,
your research is always some research, I guess, but yeah, um,

(41:40):
you know what your your budget is, and and make
sure that they're aware that you know, you're you're pre
firm about it. All right, that's great, Eline, so much
good advice in this conversation. Thank you so much for
joining us today on the podcast. We really appreciate it.
Thanks for having me. It was a lot of fun.
Nice all right, Joel, So what do you think? Is
it gonna be the Azores for you? Is there going
to be Ecuador? I'm gonna choose d all the above

(42:00):
kind of hear that even Canada, I mean they got
they got the discount? Is it? She said? Uh? Is
the dollar stronger? I think the Canadian dollar? I will
say the Alaska cruise, I'm not really I've never been
on a cruise. I don't have a ton of interest,
but yeah, if it's a destination cruise that does interest me.
And in Alaska cruise has been kind of on my
radar at least. And if it's four hundred bucks for

(42:22):
a week. I mean that sounds like something I'm down with.
How can they like, where is the profit? Like it
seems like they're losing money. If you're paying for a week,
you gotta fill that thing up with some gas or
I think you gotta scrub the deck like during the
during the hours, like just the I mean, yeah, the
fact that meals are included in that price as well,
it's pretty much pretty in addition to be we have

(42:44):
to get up there and stuff to the port right
first off, So that's at an expense, but still, um,
it's it's it sounds pretty cheap for a fun trip.
So wait, so that your big takeaway or you got
another one? No, that was that was cool. But I
think I really liked kind of at the end how
Elaine made travel feel accessible to everyone when and basically
said start with what you can afford. And I think

(43:04):
if travel is something to interest you, but you feel like, oh,
I don't have the money, I can't I can't jet
set to Europe. I don't have the time or the
ability to take a week off and the money to boot,
you know, to make that trip happen. Starting with what
you can afford is a good mindset, a good way
to kind of get the ball rolling. And it doesn't
have to be this out of the park once in
a lifetime instagram orthy excursion, but it can be an

(43:27):
awesome trip. I was just thinking about one of the
last Tricks trips that Emily and I took, and we
hiked the Tulula Gorge in just about an hour and
a half north of where we are. We and and
just like we could have camped right outside of there
if we wanted, we didn't. We got a cheap airbnb.
But there's so many ways to do this cool stuff
that we want to do for less money. If you know,
you're like, if money is the thing that's holding you back,

(43:48):
start with what you can afford. Find stuff that's local.
It doesn't have to cost that much, and yeah, work
yourself up over time to that international Scotland trip or whatever.
But yeah, I think that was just encourage good advice
from from a lane there. Yeah, it's a good good
thing to remember, like from an internal standpoint with how
it is that we think about travel and what it

(44:09):
is that we can afford, so I'll get super kind
of super practical. When we were talking about discount airlines.
I really liked how she focused. She brought up the
fact that if it is a route that an airline
doesn't fly all that often, like twice a week or
something like that, if there's a delay, you're screwed and
that is not the kind of position that you want
to be in. However, if you see that, oh, you

(44:32):
have a wide variety of times that you can choose from.
So they're flying you know, I don't know, like five
times a day from two and from this location. Well,
that's that's a different story. Um. And I think as
long as you know what the fees are that you're
you're gonna be paying to you know, carry your your
backpack onto the plane because you're gonna be oftentimes nickeled
and dive. I still think it can be a fantastic

(44:53):
way to make travel by plane airfare more affordable. Um,
some people the hoops, know the hoops and jumping, Yeah,
So is it annoying sometimes you have to jump through hoops? Yes,
But I think that simultaneously it makes it more more approachable.
It makes traveling by play within reach for a lot
of folks, when otherwise it wouldn't be completely because they're
not flying on the luxury, they're not flying the Deltas

(45:16):
and e brets with some of those sins would have
been prohibitive in costs and you're like, okay, cool, but
they're like, I could do friends here though, exactly. And
if you know how to jump through those hoops and
make it work for you, that's great. And some trips
you might want to take that risk, and others you
might not. Depends on kind of what you're going for,
depends on the destination and routes exactly, a litany of factors,
all the specifics. But it's just fun to catch up

(45:36):
with Elaine the frugal traveler. But what were your thoughts
on the beer that we had today? This one was
called Society and Solitude number six by Hill Farmstead. You know,
what do you think? So a couple of things right
off the bat. This is a Hill Farmstead beer, which
we've never had on the show before. This is a
difficult brewery to get your hands on up and then secondly,
and we only got it by the way because listener, Michael,

(45:57):
that's right send it to us, so big thanks, big
thanks to him him as well as his wife Emily.
Listener of the show. But yeah, thank you so much
for sending this one our away. But also this is
uh an experimental I p A series, UH, and it's
named after Ralph Waldo Emerson's seminal work of the same name,
Society and Solitude. I like it. I have not read it.

(46:19):
I haven't either, but number six and so this is, uh,
you know, it's more experimental, but I liked it as
well because we're talking about travel and you've got society
and solitude. I feel like those are the different things
that oftentimes you're going for when when you're planning a trip,
even going to visit a new city or going out
in the woods by yourself, like something like that, or
maybe a little bit of both. Absolutely, But yeah, yeah,
In short, this was a really really good I p. A.

(46:40):
Wasn't like off the charts, uh in the deep end
when it came to like the hazy characteristics. But it
also it wasn't necessarily like a West Coast I p A.
It was just it seemed like a really solid quality
I p A. He had just classic in its approach.
I thought, nothing crazy, but very very well made. You
just tell like the brewer knew what he or she
was doing the used quality ingredients, so I dug this one.

(47:02):
It's really good. Nothing, yeah, nothing, I feel like can
craft beer right now. Kitchen sink beers are all the rage,
and so it's like, oh, the fruity pebbles and fruit
loops and uh, you know, we just all sorts of
random stuff being tossed into beers. This one felt like
kind of a throwback to a classic where it's like
a few ingredients, simple but great, high quality ingredients though,
and it was I'll say too as well. It was

(47:23):
a touch. It was a touch on the bitter side
like that, but there was the sharpness from the hops.
Over all, the beer didn't carry too much of us
like a backbone of sweetness. But even still, I definitely
enjoyed it, even though I do tend to lean towards
the sweeter beers that are out there. But we'll make
sure to link to Elaine specifically where you can read

(47:44):
her articles over at the Times will link to her
side as well as her Instagram account and some of
the different some of the different social media accounts. Uh,
and maybe you can keep up with wherever she might
be in the world for sure. Yeah, and reading her
stuff is just gonna help you continue to make frugal
travel choices because she's the best at that. So alright, Matt,
that's gonna do it for this episode until next time.
Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,

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Matthew Altmix

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