Tackling Personal Finance with NFL Linebacker Brandon Copeland #559

Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to How the Money. I'm Joel and I am Matt.
Today we're talking tackling personal finance with NFL linebacker Brandon Copeland.

(00:27):
That's right, Brandon Copeland. He's joining us today on the podcast. Brandon,
he is a an NFL player, but he's also so
much more than that. He most recently played for our
local team, the Atlanta Falcons, last season, but he's won
the Alan Page Award for community service, and you know,
we find his off the field activities even more fascinating.
He he runs a nonprofit football camp called Beyond the

(00:48):
Basics that not only teaches kids that technical skills of
being a great football player, but also helps them to
reach their full potential off the field as well. He
has a financial literacy course called Life one One that
he teaches at the University of Pennsylvania. He's got a
couple of real estate companies as well, so it's uh,
it's safe to say that Brandon, he truly is an
entrepreneur and we are excited to talk all about that,

(01:11):
uh and more today, Brandon, thank you for joining us
on the podcast. Thank you for having me. I'm super
excited to be here and super ecited to talk shop
and uh yeah, I'm always learning as well too, so
I'm sure I can learn some things from some of
your own pursuits, but also some amazing guests you all
have had. So thanks for having me. Yeah, man, no,
we're glad to have you. And yeah, I agree, this
is gonna be hopefully a mutually beneficial conversation. And I

(01:35):
kind of got tired actually while listening to mattr Bio,
I'm like, um, okay, Brandon does like, wait this guy
while also training and like at the pinnacle of working
hours today, and I'm like, I'm very lazy. That's what
I got after reading that. But the first question we
has everybody that comes on the show, Brandon, Uh, what
I am doing? I guess while you're working out and

(01:55):
stuff is drinking beer. Um, so definitely means I am lazy.
But that's one of the things Matt and I were
we prioritize. We're like, we're gonna spend good money on
good beer in the here and now. Well we're also
saving and investing for the future. So what's that for you?
What's your craft beer equipment? What do you not mind
spending a good deal of money on? You know why
you're still being smart with your money. Yeah. I think
for me, you know, this is something I battle with

(02:15):
for years, is kind of getting rid of my own
money anxiety. It's just always fearing not having enough, not
having enough, and being that NFL player that goes broken.
And over time, I've been able to get comfortable devoting
money towards memories. So that's the biggest thing that I'll say.
So for me, travel experiences, right, those things that like
I can never go back to the time I proposed

(02:36):
to my wife, I can never go back to our honeymoon,
I can never go back to certain moments right, our
children's birthday parties, all of those things, right, And so
for me, those are the things that I will spend
an an ordinate amount on and I don't honestly, it
might not even really be in the ordinate amount, but
those are the things where I don't care what the
price is. It's go ahead and let's etch this in

(02:56):
stone and etch this in our brains forever, and it's
well worth it every single time. I love it. It's
important to put your family first. It's important to think
through some of those memories that that are gonna last
long after my newest iPhone the dust. Yeah, I think
my wife and I came to that revelation. I think
maybe earlier this year actually, Um, but I just kind

(03:18):
of told her, like, you know, when has there been
a time where we spent money on ourselves, like on
something that we genuinely love and genuinely like to do, right,
not having to do with anybody else, that we look
back and said, oh, that was a waste of money,
right like, whether it was a vacation, whether it was
a trip, whether it was an upgrade on something, right like,
there hasn't been too many times. And so we're naturally

(03:40):
we're just naturally frugal people, Like we're naturally very you know, uh,
cost sensitive or or cost conscious, I should say. And
so for us to like push ourselves to buy things
that we like in value, we actually literally have to
encourage each other or buy it for each other. So
by the time we end up spending on some of

(04:01):
those major memories, so to speak, I think it probably
all balances out. But I think, like you said, more
of the story is you have to find what that
is for you and make sure that you're you're budgeting
appropriately for it, or you're you're allocating appropriately for it. Right,
we should have named this episode titled The Frugal Footballer.

(04:23):
We're learning more of this about you, cope, But let
let's talk about the NFL because I mean specifically, we
kind of want to talk about your grandfather because it's
it's kind of a family legacy for you, is, isn't
that right? Yeah? Yeah, that's my my hero right there. Yeah,
I mean, shoot, my granddad. Um, I'm sure you might
have certain questions, but you know, I think that one
of the things I always like, the highlight about him

(04:44):
is his story is literally that out of a movie, right,
like one of those crazy movies that you'd see of
rags the Richest stories type of thing. And it's definitely
impacted my life tremendously. But um, just the person he
would was impacting my life tremendously, you know. I did
a ted talk about him, and he grew up and

(05:06):
his dad passed before he was born. His mom got
struck by lightning in front of him when he was five, right,
and so literally growing up, we never like we in
our house, I just don't play with lightning, you know.
And it's funny. I used to go to other kids
houses and stuff and people were like, you know, lightning
was just like, oh, it's just a lightning storm, and
you know, keep it moving. But like in our household
growing up, it was such a fear of lightning because

(05:29):
of his traumatic experience as a five year old. You know, Um,
long story short, he ended up going to live with
aunt by blood uncle by marriage, and the uncle was abusive,
and so you know, one time he forced my grandfather
to eat a rat. And my grandfather at thirteen years
old and Mississippi ran away. You know, had the gumption

(05:50):
to run away, uh, in the fifties in Mississippi, right,
which you can only imagine. And so through all of
those trials and tribulations, still finds a way to go.
You know, get ais and he's in high school and um,
you know without two parents, right, and and go to
he went to junior college and end up going to
Jackson State University. Um. Shout out to Dion Sanders and
what he's doing over there. Um. And and you know,

(06:13):
obviously make it to the NFL player leving your career.
But um, one of the things I always valued about
my grandfather was the person he was, like you would
never know and understand his history or his background, by
who he was on a day to day basis, and
how he made everyone in the room feel loved and
everyone in the room feel appreciated and all of that

(06:35):
stuff right Like, there was never an excuse, or there
was never a what was me or anything like that.
And so for me, I was able to take that
and look at my own life and the own obstacles
that I faced, and I look at him like, well,
this is nothing in comparison to what he has overcome.
So you know, it definitely allows me to approach life

(06:55):
with a different perspective and that he hasn't you know,
obviously that as nothing to do with even football, but
I mean, I guess it. It definitely has its uh
parallel in terms of just dealing with obstacles and getting
through them and and ultimately, you know, making sure that
you are a better person in society as a result
of the man here. And you talk about him one

(07:17):
it's just to hear what he went through and but
then to hear I would impacted you is just incredible.
It just makes me think too, that legacy is such
an important thing, the legacy that we're leaving for those
who follow behind us, and so often even as personal
finance nerds. I think too many of us think in
terms of the financial legacy that we might leave on people.

(07:37):
But there's so much more that we can leave people
beyond money, right. And it sounds like your grandpa did that, right,
going back to your your splurge, right, I mean you're
talking about memories and that's what you this is what
you have from your grandfather, Like, like he sounded like
he was focused on those intangibles, those things that go
beyond just the dollars in the sense. Yeah, yeah, I
think that that's one thing that I try to talk

(08:00):
with my wife about, my wife Taylor about and especially
with our kids. You know, in the movie Black Panther,
there's a quote in there and I'll probably butcher it,
so forgive me, but one of the things he says,
a father has failed as a father if you don't
prepare your children for your death right, and which is
such a profound, profound thought, right, Like, and so yeah,

(08:22):
I can hand you a bunch of money, I can
hand you assets and all of that stuff, and that's great, right,
Like it's it's beautiful, but that's you can lose it
and you can squander it if you if I haven't
taught you how to say you know, please and thank you,
and how to respect everybody in the room, and how
to work and navigating room, and how to be self
confident in yourself, and how to deal with obstacles and

(08:42):
how to deal with battles and how to deal with success,
how to deal with victory. Right, Because to be honest
with you, you know, like we we know, right, money
is is important. It is a vehicle, It is a tool.
It is not everything. Although I know people say money
doesn't buy you happiness, it buys a lot of the
things that can help make you happy. I will say that, right,

(09:03):
I don't think it buys happiness at all. Um. But
but you guys get my point there. But I think
for me, my grandfather and my my mother and parents
as well, and still different things in me that I
want to make sure that I'm still in my children
because I feel like success is about the mind, right,
success is about you want to know that you know

(09:24):
hopefully you know, we all in heaven looking down on
our children and we can say like, oh, they're going
through something right now. Okay, Well it might be a
little tough to watch. However, I feel confident that my my, my,
I have two boys, My boys are going to get
through this, right because mentally I've trained them for for
war and so you know, that's kind of what I've

(09:44):
been fortunate to take away from my grandfather and again
just other mentors and role models throughout my life. I
love it. Yeah, and we actually, you know, we are
going to get to some more mindset like questions. But
let's it's gonna dive into, uh, what most folks are
probably talking to about. We're wanna talk about the NFL.
You're undrafted, right, like out of college? Like, how how
difficult is it to make it this long in the league,

(10:07):
you know, when you weren't picked by a team, Uh,
coming right out of college. Yeah, it's uh, it's a battle.
I would say that. Yeah, your lowest person on the
totem pole. And and um, while there are a lot
of undrafted players who are on NFL rosters and who
have had a lot of success, um, in the NFL,

(10:29):
you definitely start at the bottom of the barrel. Right.
And so when you know, let's talk money for a
second here, right, As an investor, right, when you put
money into a company, you want to see that company
do well. So, as a GM of a team or team,
I put money into my draft picks, right, I've invested
in my draft picks. I want to see them do

(10:50):
well because one, that's what I'm measured off of. Two,
I'm investing the owner and the team and the city's money, right, UM,
So I want to see that player do well before
this undrafted player who I haven't really put that much
of a financial investment behind, UM does better than the
player that I've paid, you know, a million dollars signing,

(11:12):
bonus to half a million dollar sign and bonus to
UM to begin their NFL career. And so that's some
of the politics, uh, that you work against as an
athlete that a lot of people don't necessarily understand because
you just think, oh, everybody's in the NFL, it's all gravy,
it's all good. Everybody has an equal opportunity. UM. And again,
you know, I wouldn't change it for any any reason.

(11:33):
It's not a what was me, It's just just so
that you guys, you know, obviously we're talking about money here,
and the audience understands that that's the battle that you're
up against as an undrafted free agent it's like, hey,
I can play football and I can show you this,
but you know, I've also understand that there's been an
investment made with some other player I won't say against me,

(11:55):
but with other players that you would rather see be
successful because that that makes you look like a genius,
you know, And so it's part of the game, part
of the process. But as an undrafted free agent, i'd say,
you know, some of the biggest things, it's similar across
the board. You just have uh, similar across the board,
whether you're drafted or undrafted, But just drafted players, I
think you have a little more tolerance for growth and

(12:18):
to make mistakes because there is that investment behind you. Undrafted,
you can't make a mistake, right, Like you don't make
the same mistake twice, Yeah, you make it three times
exactly exactly, and then you have to make a little bit.
You have to make a lot out of a little
bit of reps. Right. So like, uh, nobody is thinking
that the undrafted free agent from penn Is is the

(12:40):
guy that's going to turn their franchise around. Right, So
in those first training camps and preseasons and all that stuff,
you know, you might be getting two out of the forty,
someome reps at practice and so in those two reps,
you gotta make a play. And you all know football, right,
like the ball might not be going your way, like
you there might not be any play for you to

(13:02):
actually physically be able to make. And so that's one
of the toughest toughest battles as well too, because it's
it's like what they say, you know, dedication equals hard
work plus patients or you know, persistence in timing and
all of those different things. It's like the only way
to make it is by a lot of luck and
blessing and then also just having a crazy um mental

(13:23):
belief in yourself because it definitely gets tough. Well, talk
to us about like the idiosyncrasies of NFL contracts too,
because sometimes you can sign um uh what's reported in
the papers as this big deal, but not all that
money is guaranteed, and so how does that work out?
Because at times that that's probably probably part of why

(13:43):
the popular perception is that NFL players and granted, some
NFL players do make a ton of money, but that
is why some of the guys, particularly in that undrafted position,
maybe they don't make as much as we think they make. Yeah, no,
one percent. I mean it's uh, it looks really really good.
Headline looks really really good. Um. Right now, that's what
you see is a lot of battles for guaranteed money.

(14:06):
So just for those at home, right, like you don't
just the top line number is not actually guaranteed. So
the prime example, when I was signed to the Baltimore
Ravens my rookie season, they called me right after the
draft and said, hey, Cob, we're gonna sign you undrafted,
blah blah blah. Technically at that point in time, I
signed a three year, one point four or five million

(14:26):
dollar contract. So literally I'm on Penn's campus. Uh, it
was Penn relays that night, I remember, And technically I
was a millionaire on paper, right, but I only saw
twenty four thousand of those dollars before being fired for
the first time, and there was no guarantee for me
to get my money or anything like that. So, um,
like you said, the the contract structure is a bit

(14:49):
different than the NFL. It's different for every player as
well too. Um. And so the biggest thing for me
as well, you know, that's why I was always extremely
conscious of uh, my spend and my money and also
just understanding that this is you know, NFL stands for
not for long. This is I cannot take it for granted,
and I can't bank on a check. I can't bank

(15:09):
on Oh I'll do this for the next five years
in my life because what if I, you know, what
if I have an injury or what if I, you know,
pop a shoelace and and you know, I stubbed my
toe and I bleed out. You know, I always joked
like that, but uh, but ultimately, you know, ultimately you
get the point. It's like it's like Transformers more more
to meets the eye with those contracts, so to speak.

(15:29):
So you definitely need to read defined print. Yeah, I mean,
like that's not a lot of money that you got
before before getting cut. So did you have more of
a frugal mindset then before, like while you were in college, Like,
were you are always kind of wired that way? Or
did it take you I'm not sticking around with the Ravens.
Was it that experience that caused you to realize, oh, man,
I gotta live on. Yeah, like it's it's it's time

(15:51):
to be a little more a little more cautious, what
the time I'm spending my money. Yeah, No, I was
always I was always frugal the word we're using, right,
So I was always frugal just because of just my
natural upbringing, right like my mother was very conscious that
like tomorrow isn't promised and that check isn't promised unless
it's in your bank account. And then I became even

(16:13):
more I won't say frugal, but focus when I came
into the NFL, just because I saw I saw my grandfather, right,
like he came from a time where they had to
work two jobs in the off season, like Johnny Uniteds
was his quarterback Hall of Fame quarterback, he was a
substitute teacher in the off season, same as my grandfather.
Right Like Johnny Uniteds, his first contract was for seven

(16:34):
grand It's in the Baltimore Sports Museum, right, Like, it
was just a different time and so not that you know,
I felt like I had to go into the NFL
and work multiple jobs, but I also understood that, like
this wasn't what I would be doing for the rest
of my life because I get to see my grandfather
and and so I remember, actually literally I remember one
time back then Snapchat was huge at the time. And

(16:57):
then I remember, um, some of the rookies with me
in that draft class, and that that year they were
over at there's a small Owns Mills mall, which anybody
from that area knows that it was like a dying mall.
And I remember just seeing on Snapchat like a bunch
of the rookies going through and they're like literally taking
selfies and acting like they like buying up the mall
and all that stuff. And in my mind, I'm like,

(17:18):
I know that this is like a dying mall. Like
it's not even you know, really that good. And I
also understand that like none of us really have money
like that at this point, you know, And so I
just remember, you know, okay, I'm just stay in my lane.
Like that was like one of my first lessons of like,
let me just stay in my lane and be myself
and and we'll see where, you know, where where the
where we all end up with a dust settles, so

(17:40):
to speak. And at some point you you start making
a regular page, like you start you start getting You've
been in the NFL now for a number of years,
but even still you kind of inhibited the amount you're
able to spend. You were living on just like ten
percent of your salary at some point, right, what what
made you go to such an extreme with your savings?
And I guess I'm curious too, how hard is it
to live like in a culture where fancy stuff, new cars,

(18:03):
like those sorts of trips to them all were those
sorts of displays of wealth are normal? Do you see?
Do you do? You seem like a complete quirky oddball. Yeah,
I think, uh definitely. People are are surprised when they
meet me. Um, but I think for me, So we
started teaching the class called Life one on one years
ago at Penn and we teach it to the public

(18:24):
now just basics of finance, right, we got in high
schools and and everything. At this point, we're continue to
grow that platform. But the first lecture specifically is on
starting to identify your why and starting to identify what
matters to you from a life standpoint, right, what you
want to be remembered for and legacy is you guys

(18:45):
mentioned earlier, but also just from like a money standpoint.
And so for me, when I think about my wide,
I think about what's important right, Like to me, it
isn't the chains. It isn't the cars, it isn't the
dopest shoes or anything like that. It's not to say
that I don't want stuff, It's just I don't. Necessarily
it doesn't make me feel like more of a man

(19:06):
or a better person just to have like a bunch
of diamonds on my neck or or in my ears
or whatever. Right, So, now that I've identified that, I
can make sure that I'm also making my spending in
alignment with that. What I really like is financial freedom,
and what I've really been chasing since high school is
financial freedom, which for me, the only way I can

(19:28):
get that is through investing and buying assets and and
things of that nature and building empire. And so for me,
I understood that having an NFL salary is you know,
once in a lifetime opportunity. And I also also looked
at it as as startup capital. Right, So what can

(19:48):
I do with this money to go put it into
assets or put it into businesses, or invest to make
the best best investment of all time and invest in
myself enough to make sure that this money that we
are making today is just you know, hopefully I can
look back at it years from now and laugh at it, right,

(20:09):
And that's just part of me being a competitor. It's
not to be offensive to anybody or anything like that.
But years ago and in college, I made a rule
to myself that you know, I never want to take
a step backwards in earnings. And literally I started working
a job at Walmart night shift seven an hour, but
I worked night shifts, so they had to give me
eight forty five an hour, right, And ever since then

(20:31):
freshman year, I've only increased, increased, increased, And so the
goal for me is like, well, in order for me
to do that the right way, I gotta take as
much as I can and I gotta put it to
work for me. And so that's the reason for the
crazy savings amount. But it's also just me not wanting
to have to depend on the NFL team to like me,

(20:52):
or you know, anybody else to put food on on
my family's plate. That's right. You gotta put that capital
to work for you or Cope, I should say this
is all good stuff, and we actually want to We've
got a couple more questions about the NFL, but we're
gonna talk about investing and yeah, making sure that you
are putting those dollars to work for you, and we
will get to all of that right after the break.

(21:20):
We're back from the break still talking with Brandon Copeland
or Cope, who is an NFL linebacker, and clearly, just
from the first twenty minutes of this conversation, um just
has a ridiculous amount of personal finance intelligence. And and Hope,
I guess one question I have like you. I asked
maybe about you being an oddball or an outlier in
the locker room, but do those guys ever come up

(21:40):
to you in private and they're like, hey, it turns
out I'm I'm not doing so good with my money.
How do you do it? Are Are they picking your
brain about personal finances on the reg Yeah all the time,
actually all the time. I mean the oddest requests now,
which are awesome to be quite honest with you are
literally in the middle of games at this point. Uh yeah,

(22:03):
I'll be going against an opponent. I remember two times
in particulars really stick out because they're they're funny. I
actually was able to show my wife on on film.
But one time I was with the Patriots and you know,
dude comes up to me after you know, a play
and I'm thinking in my head, you know, I'm in
football mode. So I'm in my head like, okay, let's
let's we're about to talk some trash. We're about to y'all.

(22:25):
You know, let's go get face to face. Let's do this. Yeah,
you know. And he comes up and says, hey, Coke, like, man,
love what you're doing. I'm trying to get into some
real estate. Would love to talk to you after the
game and this all season blah blah blah. And I'm like,
we're like close to the sideline. Uh. And I'm like
in my mind, I'm like I'm in savage mode. So
I'm like, all, yeah, we could do that. But I'm

(22:46):
also in my mind, I'm like, well, Bill Belichick is
probably right over my shoulder, and he probably sees this
is too friendly of a conversation. I need you to
get away from me. Get away from me. Now. You know.
It's not baseball where they have those like conversations at
First Place that are like super sweet and stuffing like
football and like that. This is about you tearing his
head off. It's hilarious. Yeah, I'm sure that caught you
off guard where you're like, wait a minute, ye is

(23:07):
it that you're thinking about investing in real estate. How's
it you're thinking about your future when you just hit
me really hard next week? Yeah, exactly. It's like it's
it's such a dichotomy, but it was. It was. It's
awesome though, and it's happened multiple times at this point,
and that I think it shows obviously where players minds
are right, which is great, Like players minds are in

(23:28):
a good way of like their longevity and their future
and things of that nature. And we've also we host
courses um and zoom, webinars and networking events with athletes
and entertainers now and stuff. But but yeah, that that
one in particular, it was pretty hilarious because it was
the pandemic season as well too, so there was no
one else in the crowd or they can hear you. Brother,

(23:52):
you gotta wait for me, you know that. I love that. Man.
That's that's a good well. I mean, your reputation goes
before you, man, Like that's that's what that points to.
It points to the good work that you're doing off
the off the field. I mean, do you do you
feel like that there is the shift because I feel like,
for for the longest time, it seemed like a lot
of players were going, you know, they would play for
maybe a year or two, their knee pops, and all

(24:13):
of a sudden they're they're bankrupt, right like they're pennyless.
Do you feel like that there's a shift. Does it
seem like that there are more NFL players who are
maybe being a little smarter with their money, who are
thinking a little more long term? Yeah? I think that
one that that documentary highlighted a lot of things, uh
for for NFL athletes in particular, and just athletes in particular.

(24:34):
So no one wants to be on the part two
of it, right, um, but two people are understanding their
platform a lot more, you know. And I was fortunately
when I came into the NFL to be around some
amazing people, amazing mentors, amazing vets as we call them, right.
And I saw, you know, Glover Quinn for example, he

(24:58):
think at that time he was in years six or seven,
pro bowler and all of that stuff, And he'd be
at his locker with a bunch of cameras around him,
and he'd be wearing a hat with a logo on
it that I've never seen before, but in his locker
and the cubby, he would have different brands and different
things of that nature, and I'm like, what is Like,
what are these? He was like, Oh, these are the
companies I invest in, So you know, I'm gonna go

(25:20):
ahead and get them some free marketing because it's going
to increase my my value right like and so wow, okay,
you're thinking differently. But for me, you know, I probably
would never have if I did not have that experience,
and then it would have prevented me from creating this
whole business model that I have for one of the
legs of my business model that I have with my

(25:41):
consultancy group for example. So you know, you're you're only
is is good so to speak, is your experiences right
and what you're able to listen and learn from it?
And then obviously your execution has to be clean after that.
But there's so many guys doing some amazing things now
and it's just exciting to see. We talked about fellow
players giving advice from you, and but what about financial

(26:03):
advisors And I'm curious to know what your taking is
on that, And it seems like I don't know. I've
heard a lot of stories of people shark like people
praying on you know, young NFL players who signed the
big contract. So what what what advice do you give
to NFL rookies or yeah, and just kind of how
do you think about that financial advisor space in general? Yeah,

(26:25):
So the first piece of advice I always say is, um,
learn how to say no. You know, I think it's
one of the toughest things in the world. And that's
not even like this is financial advice for you just
as a person and in general. And you come to
the NFL, and now even with n I L money.
You know, some guys in college and making more than
some NFL guys, right, but you need to learn how

(26:47):
to say no and become a business man or woman
like acep. And what I mean when I say that is,
you know, you've worked your entire life for money, and
I want to make sure I framed this properly. You've
worked your entire life to make it to the NFL.
Which part of the reason why you did that is
for the money. Right. They're like, yeah, you want the
platform and all that stuff, But most of us dream

(27:09):
of being in the NFL because we think we're gonna
get fancy cars and you're gonna show up and it's
gonna be fans just waiting for you everywhere you go
and all of that stuff, right, Um. But when you
get to the NFL, you leave college and you might
meet an agent, and you know, you might have known
that agent for six months or so, and then you

(27:30):
hand your entire life's work over to that agent slash.
A lot of guys they get introduced to their financial
advisor through their agent, right because that's their most trusted
resource coming into this new chapter in their lives. Right.
And so it's like, for me, I've been playing football
since fourth grade, so and I've been genuinely working harder

(27:50):
than everybody since fourth grade. I haven't always wanted to
go to the NFL, but I remember being overweight in
fourth grade and running around my house and trash bags
and stuff like that, doing extra running and doing extra
things just to make weight to play every single week
in rec league, right um. And so for me, I
try to let young guys know, like you've been investing

(28:11):
for this your entire life, Like, yes, you're getting a
big payday to day, but you've worked harder than everybody
else and you've invested in yourself. You said no the parties,
you said no, the bad obstacles and different things so
that you can be here. So what how crazy does
it sound that you just make this huge lump sum
of money, you just hand it over to somebody just
turn a blind eye. I think that that's absurd, and

(28:34):
so for me, Um, you know, I just always tell people, Listen,
you've worked your entire life for the money. You gotta
work twice as hard to learn how to save it,
and three times it's hard to learn how to grow it.
So simply put, mind your business right, like, check in
with your financial advisor. Right. If you're gonna hire financial advisor,
work closely with them or closer with them. UM, have conversations.

(28:58):
Make sure they're educating you so that you can eventually
check what's going on in your portfolio. Because unfortunately, I've
seen way too many players taking advantage of right, way
too many charges on statements that are erroneous. Right, I've
seen guys charge thousands of dollars for text messages right
and literally just correspondence with advisors. And that's if you're

(29:21):
not minding your business, you will potentially fall victim to that. Um.
It's not to say everything will be perfect when it
comes to money. I'm making mistakes right now. Everybody's making mistakes.
Warm Buffetts making mistakes right now, and that's okay. But
you never want something that you worked your entire life
for to just uh fall victim to your ignorance or

(29:42):
you just turning it over to somebody with a blind
eye and just thinking that they're going to have supreme
intentions for your money because nobody cares about you the
way you do. That's right. Yeah, it definitely takes a
level of personal responsibility there. And you're talking about investing,
you know, with with the work that you put to
get to the NFL. Um But on that note, you've

(30:03):
said before that when you when you came into the
NFL that you were investing, but specifically you were day trading. Uh,
And so we're kind of shifting gears here, like, what's
what you're investing strategy these days? Folks listen to our show,
they know we're all about index funds. Super boring but
sup but super cheap and very widely diversified. But yeah,

(30:23):
I would love to hear how it is that you're
investing your money these days. Yeah, So I am with you, guys,
I'm looking for boring it makes money, plain and simple, boring,
make good. That's what I'm looking for. One is less stressful. Um.
You know, if you have a long term perspective, I
think that that's obviously what would you know, differentiates a

(30:43):
lot of different um investment advice, so to speak. But
if you have that long term perspective, for me, it
is let me put this away in in certain companies
that I believe will be here, Apple, the Amazons of
the world, right index funds. I do like picking stocks
from time to time, but I try to, you know,
the stocks that I do pick, I try to pick

(31:04):
things that are literally changing my life right. And and
an example of that, my wife's birthday was a few
weeks ago, and I, silly me, forgot the table cloths
for an event. We were doing a little event, running
out a little space. And you know, it's my first
birthday with my wife since fourth grade, because usually I'm
in training camp. And so I'm like, literally, what was

(31:24):
my first birthday ever with my wife. I didn't know
my wife in fourth grade. So I'm like, you know,
I gotta go all out, you know, And so anyway,
I forgot the table cloths. You know, your boy forgot
the table cloths, and so I literally get on Amazon's
app and they can get the table close there in
like eight hours or something like that. I'm like, this
is life changing, right, Like the fact that in my
mind I naturally decided to say, you know what, I

(31:47):
forgot table cloths instead of me going to the grocery
store and getting them, let me see if Amazon can
get them to me. Right, that is, that's something remarkable, right,
And so that was if I'm going to invest in
a company or a stock, it's got to be something
that has literally changed the way we do business as people, right,
the way we operate as human beings. And that's the

(32:08):
only thing that's attracted to me outside of Index Funds.
But other than that, I think you guys, right is
like Index Funds said it and forget it. It has
this diversification book booked into it. If you buy it today,
you know it should be up five, ten, twenty years
from now, and if not, then we might have a
bigger problem, to be honest with you, that's exactly right. Well,
you mentioned your your wife, Taylor Hope. I hope that

(32:28):
birthday panned out well. By the way, good table claps
got in excellent excellent Amazon delivered in the clutch. Well,
and you you guys invest in real estate together, right,
You guys do have a couple of real estate companies
um that you hold together. So what is what is
your real estate investing look like? So we're doing the
index funds, a couple of individual stocks here and there,

(32:49):
but yeah, what's that real estate piece look like? Yeah?
So we um well one shameless plug. We we got
a show coming out on Netflix pretty soon here called
by My House. So you know, I'm excited about that.
We graduated from doing flips. We did residential, uh, single
family flips for years and basically what we did. And

(33:12):
you know when you mentioned index funds and he said boring,
and I said, hey, boring makes money. I'm always looking
to figure out how can I do this more efficiently
so I can get my time back. And so now
what we're doing is we are developing buildings from the
ground up. So we have a forty one unit building
in New York, New Jersey, downtown, New York, New Jersey,
right across the street from two high schools in the library.

(33:33):
We're building that up right now. We have a sixty
six unit building, the largest it's affordable housing, largest affordable
housing project in downtown Newark, New Jersey. UM that'll be
going up Q one we have a sixteen and a
twelve unit. And then we also are now doing land development,
so basically buying acres acres of land and doing uh

(33:56):
commercial land development, so either partnering with developers were they're building,
uh Like, for one plot we've got nine hundred units
being built. Another plot we got McDonald's wants to be
attendant Wawa Circle k UM not shouting out these companies
or anything like that. There's no sponsorships here. But more importantly,
it's like just trying to find ways to level up

(34:18):
where now it's simpler, now it's boring. Now it's McDonald's
twenty year. At least I don't have to necessarily worry about,
you know, the pipe Burston because it's triple net, or
I don't have to necessarily worry about them moving out
after five years because hey it's twenty years from McDonald's right,
or Tesla or whomever. So yeah, we've been in the
development space for a while now, and I think that

(34:38):
that's where we're going to continue to push. But again
playing and boring what I want to get into our
parking lots and storage units. Boring sounds really simple, but
I've never heard anybody complain about their parking lot space right,
And I want to basically tell my children listen, every
fifty years, repaint these lines and don't mess this up.

(34:59):
I just don't mess it up. Well, you gotta worry
about I think that's such an important thing. Though. As
you start to as you start to make more money
or and you accrue wealth because you've just consistently spent
a whole lot less than you bring in, and you
invested wisely, at some point you start to think, well,
how can I how can I make my life a
little bit easier, even if maybe the returns aren't quite

(35:20):
as good. And I think that's no quick, an okay
question to ask. I think it's smart because at some
point you can't do it all right, and you can't
flip uh ten houses in a month like that just
becomes too much for you to manage. So, okay, how
can I do this? That makes it actually a little
bit more passive. So I like that you're thinking that way, Brandon.
You got a lot, You got a lot on your
plate point in football, invest in real estate doing all

(35:40):
the stuff you're doing. But we've actually got a couple
more questions we want to get to you, including what
it looks like to pass on that financial education to
the next generation. So we'll ask a couple of questions
on that and more right after this break. Al Right,

(36:01):
we are back from the break. We were talking with
Brandon Copeland that are known as COPE. You know, we
we talked through the NFL. We talked about investing and
you know, you were just talking about having your kids
not mess it up, not messing up the lot. Make
sure you gotta repaint those lines on the on the
parking lot as you simplify things. But yeah, like what
about impacting kids with with better financial education? You know,

(36:21):
because you've got a couple of little ones there, Like,
how do you think about specifically, how do you think
about building wealth when it comes to passing that onto
your kids? How how is it that you're thinking about legacy? Yeah,
so I'm thinking one, like I said, mentally, right, Like,
I want to make sure that they can start from
the bottom and pull themselves out of any hole. Right,
So that's the most important thing to me. Um Then

(36:44):
to financially first is like you said the education. A
lot of us want to go hustle and work and
then pass every them to our children, and I want
to do the same. But I also very conscious, being
an educator myself, that like if I don't teach them
how to make money or what a stock is, or
have them sitting there and watching you know, CNBC in

(37:06):
different things early, then all of my hard work is
for nothing because they'll just lose it, right and shoot
them that I might as well spending myself right at
that point, fortunes, fortunes are made, but then they're often
uh just kind of frittered away by the next generation
or two. And so uh So for me, that's where
we're starting is a three year old and nine month old,

(37:27):
so we're very early on in this process. But I
do have an eight year old niece and nephew, and
so like one of the things when they're over how
the house, we're quizzing them, hey, what's the stock? You know?
And and for me, I'm a big believer in earning everything. Um,
you don't have to earn everything, like you can eat
breakfast for free around here, right, but like but ultimately right,
like I want you to you want ice cream. We

(37:49):
want ice cream tonight? All right? Well, you know I'm
ask you this question and you know, we got a
hammer it home until you get the answer right because
you know, while Uncle Brandon might be annoying right now,
hopefully you know five ten years from now, you know,
some of these things click for them and they're ahead
of the curve. And so the biggest thing, like I said,
is education. I am having a bigger focus now on

(38:11):
real estate assets UM and real estate development because I'm
seeing such an amazing opportunity there. I know, obviously the
real estate markets in flux, but I'm just talking about
the industry or the asset class in comparison to other
asset classes. It's just I'm seeing a really huge opportunity there.
And and UM, I think that that's also something that

(38:33):
I can pass down to my children in a different way.
And the way I got into real estate actually right
as a stock, is something that ultimately I can't control,
right Like I can't control what Apple does today. I
can't control what Amazon does today. As much as I
like the companies, UM and I think they're doing well,
right Like, ultimately I have no control over it, but

(38:54):
I can't control if what we're doing real estate, I
can't control the color of the carpets. I can control
the design to the rooms in our our forda unit ability,
and I can control the the colors we paint the walls.
I have some control over certain aspects of it. I
don't have control over it all, but I have some control.
And at the end of the day, if we lose there,
then I can point the finger in myself and I

(39:16):
feel more comfortable by losing my money that way. Then
you know, again blindly turning and eye to it. So
for me, I'm interested in teaching my children about a
bunch of asset classes, but uh, specifically, the real real
estate is something that I'm excited about handing down to
them and different types of real estate assets I think

(39:36):
of real estate. It's kind of this fun ability to
help educate your kids too, because you can ask those
questions about stocks, you can teach them about businesses. But
there's something that even a second grader can kind of
understand about rental real estate that it's like people need
a place to live and that there has to be
paid for and this person pays me money to live
in this place. It's almost like the most rudimentary personal
finance lessons can be learned from real estate, and it

(40:00):
can become more tactile, um when you're taking the kid
to that house or in my in my case, we
used to live in that house and now we moved
to this house, but we rent that house out, and
so my kids can kind of see firsthand like, oh,
we used to live there and now it's a roof
for somebody else, and so I don't know, it just
kind of connects the doubts for them in a way.
I think that's that's really helped completely agree and that
that's as much practice as you can get. You know,

(40:22):
these are lessons that I didn't learn growing up, and
so for me, it's I'm cultivating the lessons as I go.
You know, we working on children's books and things of
that nature now, right, And that was just because we
were reading a bunch of books. And you know, as
much as I love Dr Seucy, wasn't teaching my children
about money, and so um, I'm just trying to find
different ways to introduce money to him earlier. If only

(40:44):
did a lot in a couple of personal finance books too,
that would have been really cool. Yeah, exactly. I'm one
fish to fish one dollar. It's like I can sell
you a fish or I can sell you the lessons
the fish. Alright, right, well, alright, so last question, speaking
of education, you're also you're an Ivy League professor at
you or Ala Mater, the University of Pennsylvania. And you

(41:04):
say that this isn't a side hustle, it's just it's
just a passion. But how do you find time for
all your side hustles and passions and just all the
all the various pursuits that you take part in? Again,
going back to that bio maatt Red, I feel very
lazy as I see all the things that you're kind
of involved in. I mean, are you just like burning
the midnight oil? Like do you actually take time to rest? Like?
What does this? How does this look in your life? Yeah,

(41:26):
I'm becoming I'm great at multitasking, is what I'll say.
I'm great at multitasking. So for example, um, if I'm
in season, if I'm in the couldtub, or if I'm
in the sauna, that for me is a is a
meeting time or it's time to send emails. Right Like,
I just don't take a lot of time off right,
Like I don't take a lot of time to quote

(41:47):
unquote shut down. And what I mean by um, what
I meant by I guess it being a passion is
you know, I've tried, genuinely tried. I think I was
with the Jets. I tried to go into the season
and just turn everything off. Everything off the field is
just off. Let's just focus all on football, go all
the way in. And my anxiety got to me because

(42:11):
I couldn't deal with like not checking on a real
estate project or you know, I'm literally twiddling my thumbs,
like if I don't fill my brain with that type
of stuff, then there's nothing else that I necessarily want
to put into my brain, right, Like there's only so
many shows on you know, Netflix that I can watch
before I'm like, what am I doing? Right? Like, I

(42:31):
gotta I can listen to a pod guy, but I
need to go try it. I need to go do it.
And so for me, I'm realizing, I'm realizing now more
than ever that there is no such thing as balanced
at all. And as much as I try to turn
it off, turn it on, turn it off, turning on,
I'm becoming better at boundaries. But Ultimately, these are just
things that I am passionate about and I have to

(42:53):
chase and so whatever time I can create to to
do it is what we're going to take and what
we're going to maximize in order to make it come
to fruition. I like it. Yeah, there's I think there's
there's different seasons in life, different seasons where we pursue
things more or or less. But for you it sounds like, yeah,
maybe that's just around the clock. There's there's this talk

(43:14):
radio show host I used to listen to growing up, Brandon,
and he would always say that he turned his personality
disorder into a full time job that made him a
lot of money. And it's so funny, like how I
think I can be the case when you're super passionate
about something and it doesn't feel like work and you're like,
but I miss it, like I don't want to stop
doing it. I think that can sometimes be the best
of both worlds. Not everybody feels like that, but if

(43:36):
you do about your day job or about some of
those side hustles and passions that you participate in, I
think that can be a recipe for success. Yeah. Yeah,
And I think you know, for me, I've been extremely
diligent about separating passion from business. Right, So like everything
I work in from a business standpoint is something I'm

(43:57):
passionate about. There's nothing that I'm doing at this point
that I just don't want to do. I refuse to
do it. But now the business, like the real estate business,
has to be a real business. It has to pay
for itself. There isn't the Bank of Brandon Copeland that's
going to fund that business. The properties within, the investments
within it have to fund it. It It has to fund
the contractors, has to fund everything. Right, we have a

(44:20):
production company, the same thing happens like like Brandon Copeland.
The Bank of Brandon can get it started right and
invest in ourselves because I see an opportunity there. But
at a certain point, like we all like with our children,
at a certain point, you gotta grow up. It's a teen,
you eighteen, you gotta get out the house, buddy. I
don't know what to tell you, right, Like you're own
your own right and so for me it's it's I

(44:41):
guess just for for the audience as well too. It's
like being comfortable analyzing your passions as you try to
monetize them, And for me, I'm in a phase now
where it's, uh, let's cut the fat. What is what
is worth the time? What is not worth the time?
Where do we see ourselves years from now? And so

(45:01):
just always constantly being comfortable, being flexible and and analyzing
yourself so that you can continue to progress. I think
is what what we've done a decent job of thus far,
and we can always do better, So we're excited about continuing.
For nice, I love that. Yeah, always being willing to
cut the fat, cutting things from your life. I think

(45:22):
that's just a great note to end on. Especially, I mean,
you've got a young family, you've got I know, you've
got young kids, and at a certain point you gotta
make some decisions. And when we were single, when we
were married without kids, when we maybe just had that
first kid, there are things that we can continue to do.
But as you progress through life, not only sometimes you
not want to continue to do those things, but sometimes

(45:43):
you just can't. Uh. And so I think that's good
advice regardless of what stage of life that you are in.
But co working folks learn more about you and what
it is that you are up to next. Yeah, Brandon
Copen dot com simply put Brandon copen dot com. You
can also my social media is Cope fifty one b
c Ope five one UM. And if you're ever interested

(46:04):
in financial education courses or free resources or book lists
or anything like that, life one O one die. I. Oh, awesome, Cope.
It's been an absolute pleasure. Man, thank you so much
for coming on the show. I appreciate you guys having me.
Thank you and thank you Cope for coming on How
to Money Joel. It's not every day that we get to, uh,
sit down and talk to a professional athlete, somebody who's

(46:26):
been in the NFL. What's the what's the sport? Not
for long? Right? What's Lionel Messi? He's been begging to
come on, and we're like, listen, dude, pipetown. We got
other people to get to. We got to talk to
Cope first, and we'll get you on the content calendar soon. Now,
this was an awesome conversation and at the simultaneously, I'll
be honest, I was a little nervous as we were
leading going into this episode, because it is that you're

(46:47):
talking to somebody who's essentially kind of a celebrity. But man,
he quickly put me at ease hearing just his background
and how it is that he's approaching his personal finances
and the lessons he learned from his grandfather, all of
these things that mean, you realize that I've got more
in common with an NFL player that I realize. But what, Yeah,
what was your big takeaway? I guess from this episode
A big takeaway was that you have a lot in

(47:08):
common with NFL players, was it? Now? I think? Man,
so many things, honestly, just so much down to earth
wisdom from Brandon Copeley, which I just massively appreciated. I
think one thing is stuck out to me was when
he said he thought of his NFL salary a startup capital,
and that was good. It just it just made me think,
one if an NFL player can live on temper cent

(47:28):
of salary saving given all the pressure surrounding him to
spend more and live a different lifestyle, like I don't know.
I think part of the reason we spend more oftentimes
because the pressure we feel from the outside from the
people around us and how they're living and branding avoided it.
And I think, like that's so much of that is
is self discipline, right in order to do that. But
when we're talking about that startup capital, what if you

(47:49):
get like a bonus in your day job, you can
think of that as startup capital, seed funding for the
business you want to start, or for an investment account
that you want to grow to a certain amount, so
that you have just a ton of flexive ability over
what the next five years of your life look like. Um.
I think sometimes we we incorporate that money into our
lives and we just kind of funnel it into our spending.
We eat it. Yeah, you know, we consume it and

(48:10):
it's gone and we don't have anything to show. But
that's not how he's thinking about it. And those lump
sums in particular for us, which you know, let's say
it's even just honestly, your your tax refund in April.
That is one of those things where you can just
kind of assimilate it into uh, some sort of big
spend or you can say, you know what, no, this
is the seed capital for something bigger for me, for
my future. And that's the way Cope is thinking like constantly,

(48:32):
and I think there's a lot to learn from that.
I think that's that's there's a lot of wisdom in that, Yeah,
that's right. How can I put these dollars to work?
Not what can these dollars do to bring me comfort
and enjoyment? Although, but you know he's spending money on memories,
whether it's occasionally, whether it's vacacas or birthday parties for kids,
that kind of thing, And so there's there's simultaneously there's

(48:53):
a balance to strike where you got to prioritize and
figure out the why behind your money. He took We didn't,
We didn't grab onto that, but he was taking about
first you gotta start with your why. And I'm just like, yes, code, yeah,
Like I gotta send him our why behind your money episodes? Right,
but he already knows it. But you do have to
identify those things so that you aren't living this existence
that feels like it's devoid of any joy. But most

(49:16):
often what people are dealing with is spending too much
of their money. Right, There aren't too many folks out
there who are uh, sacrificing too much in order to
achieve Every once in a while, if you find that person,
but there are few and far between. Although I will
say I bet out of our listeners there's a hypercentage
of folks who do need maybe another craftier equivalent or
a craftier equivalent to begin with. But my big takeaway

(49:37):
was is like you'd asked about financial advisors and how
there's like all those guys out there who might be
trying to get their hands on NFL players money. But
what Cope was saying is that you have worked so
hard to get to this point. You have said no
to so many things, whether it's to kick back and
watch another TV show, whether it's maybe something you shouldn't
be eating because you know that that's going to keep

(49:59):
you from achieving the physical fitness that you're trying to.
Like all of these sacrifice sleep or sleep. Uh, You've
just sacrificed so much all along the way. And to
get to that point to start seeing perhaps tens of thousands,
hundreds of thousands, even millions of dollars arrive in your
bank account and then for you just to check out, well,
that's a recipe for disaster. And how instead you said

(50:19):
no up to this point. You need to continue to
to not necessarily say no, but to maybe be aware
as to what is going on with your money. And
we've always said that people need at least some education
in order to ask the right questions. Right, So it's
it's not the worst thing in the world to hire
a financial advisor. It might make sense in your situation,
but you don't want to just blindly trust someone to
hit your You want to know what questions as well.

(50:40):
Are you a fiduciary and what what what's your investment strategy?
And why should I go with you instead of doing
it myself? Like those are all good questions. If you're
asking the right questions and you know a thing or
two about investing in money management before you go into
that relationship, you're much more likely to have a good outcome,
That's right. Yeah, nobody cares about your money as much
as you do. Like he said, Yeah, I thought that

(51:00):
was just great advice because even though there's folks out
there and they're not breaking in millions like some NFL
players are, you might get that promotion like you're talking about,
like maybe you do get a bonus. Maybe you are
making more money than you ever thought was possible, and
there aren't maybe a number of things that you're just like,
you know what, I don't have to worry about that.
I've got somebody to take care of that for me.
When it comes to your money, we would always recommend

(51:21):
that you have a finger on the pulse of your money,
that you know what what's going on there about. But yeah,
I thought that was great. I also thought this beer
was fantastic. Man, You and I enjoyed a fortunatus. This
is an American sour ale by three taverns. And what
were your thoughts? All right? Man? This one was sweet, funky,
okey and tart like it had had a bunch of
different elements going on and almost like more oaky than

(51:43):
anything else. A lot of oak vibes coming forward on
this one. But but yeah, nice touch of funk. I love.
And it's always hard to describe funk. Some people describe
it as like horse blanket or like There's also some
weird ways to describe what a funky beer tastes, like
that don't sound appetizing, but then you drink it and
you're like, oh I get it, kind of all clicks.
I love funky beers. This one UM had like had

(52:04):
dialed it up on the funk level, which I appreciate,
So I think I thought it was great. They dotted
up on the sweetness too. I was curious if if
you weren't gonna like this one as much. There's a
good amount of sugar. Another adjective I would add would
be zestiness, Like I feel like the like you call
it tartness, but it's just like to me, it's like zesty.
It's like it's like yellow mustard or something, you know,
like it's got the sharpness to it. But I feel

(52:25):
like it also had a good amount of sweetness, which
meant I loved every single drop of this. Could definitely
have enjoyed another one. But we are lucky to have
this great brewery here in Atlanta. This is three taverns.
If you can get your hands on any of their beers,
we would highly recommend it. And we would also recommend
that you head edward to the website how the Money
dot Com and we'll make sure to link to all

(52:45):
the different resources some of the different things that Brandon
is excited about coming up. We will link to that
up in our show notes at how the Money dot Com. Yeah,
and if we ever need like a third co host,
I don't know, if Cope's not too busy, you can
bring them on here more frequently. That was of fun,
So alright, buddy, But until next time, best friends out,
best friends out

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Matthew Altmix

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