November 16, 2021 • 28 mins
Kobe Bryant: basketball superstar for the Los Angeles Lakers, five-time NBA champion, 18-time All-Star, Academy Award-winning filmmaker, children’s-book author, husband, father, sometimes a lightning rod for controversy and conflict, always a competitor beyond compare, a global icon. The tapes journalist Mike Sielski plays in this podcast series aren’t from the later years of Kobe's Lakers career when he was already a celebrity. They’re from 1996 and 1997, from when Kobe was a senior at Lower Merion High School, near Philadelphia. Some are from the weeks just after he graduated. And some are from his first season with the Lakers. All of them are from when he was still just 17 and 18 years old, when he was just beginning his path to glory.
No matter what your perspective is on Kobe Bryant, you have to admit that he was more than just famous. He was a fascinating figure. These tapes provide a glimpse of Kobe that few people had while he was alive. This is Kobe as he was. But more than that, this is Kobe as he was figuring out who he would be. When Kobe, his daughter Gianna, and seven other people died in a helicopter crash in January 2020, Kobe was as famous, as recognizable, as any athlete on the planet. Over his two decades with the Lakers, he scored 33,643 points. That’s more than Michael Jordan scored, more than Wilt Chamberlain scored, way more than Dr. J or Shaquille O’Neal or Larry Bird scored. Kobe also won five championships and two Olympic gold medals. His nickname was the “Black Mamba,” because he was so deadly when the game mattered most. And you know what’s funny about that nickname? Kobe gave it to himself. Which kind of tells you everything you need to know about him.
Pre-order Mike Sielski's related book: “The Rise: Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality" (1/11/22): TheRiseOfKobeBook.com
Join the conversation about “I Am Kobe” on social media: on Twitter and Instagram: @diversionpods
Our theme music is “Create Yourself” by Grover Braam feat. Justin Starling: Listen to Create Yourself on Spotify
Cover photo © Eileen Blass – USA TODAY NETWORK
“I Am Kobe” is a production of Diversion Podcasts, in association with iHeartRadio. This season is written and hosted by Mike Sielski. Produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by Mark Francis. Consulting Producer: Andrew Kalb. Story editing by Jacob Bronstein with editorial direction from Scott Waxman. Editing, mixing, and sound design by Mark Francis. Production Assistant: Stephen Tompkins. Music Supervisor: Scott Velasquez, for Frisson Sync. Executive Producers: Mark Francis and Scott Waxman.
Thanks to Oren Rosenbaum, Susan Canavan, and Jeremy Treatman.
Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.com
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:06):
Diversion podcasts. Hey, my name is Kobe Bryant, and I
love to play basketball and has always been my dream,
my go to play in the National Basketball Association ever
since I was I was four or five years old,
and I've always loved the game. H I love the
(00:28):
smell of the love it hardwood, compute on the playground,
switching the net. I just I just went with up
the game. I don't know where that came from, just
always been there. You probably know that voice. That was
Kobe Bryant, basketball superstar for the Los Angeles Lakers, five
(00:50):
time NBA champion, eighteen time All Star, Academy Award winning filmmaker,
children's book author, husband, father, Sometimes a lightning rod for
controversy and conflict, always a competitor beyond compare, a global icon.
When Kobe, his daughter, Gianna, and seven other people died
(01:13):
in a helicopter crash in January, Kobe was as famous
as recognizable as any athlete on the planet. Over his
two decades with the Lakers, he scored thirty three thousand,
six hundred and forty three points. That's more than Michael
Jordan's scored, more than wil Chamberlain scored way more than
(01:35):
Dr j or Shaquille O'Neil or Larry Bird scored. Kobe
also won five championships in two Olympic gold medals. His
nickname was the Black Mamba because he was so deadly
when the game mattered most. And you know what's funny
about that nickname, Kobe gave it to himself, which kind
of tells you everything you need to know about it.
(01:58):
We're just gonna be the same person that I've been
up to this point in high school basketball player with
a lot of confidence that went out there and played well.
I just wanted to win the basketball game, you know,
And that's what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be a
basketball player that just enjoys the player. But the tapes
you're hearing aren't from the later years of his Lakers career,
(02:18):
when Kobe was already a celebrity. There from just a
few years after he and his family moved back to
the United States. They've been living in Italy for eight years.
Some of the tapes I want to play for you
are from when Kobe was a senior at Lower Merion
High School near Philadelphia. Some are from the weeks just
(02:39):
after he graduated and some are from his first season
with the Lakers. All of them are from the time
of his life when he was still just seventeen or
eighteen years old, when he was just beginning his path
to glory. Always played basketball. My family moved to Italy.
I was raised over there. I think Matroy very well
(03:02):
over there, fascinating anybody else here in American media, And
when I came back, I had to addapt the lifestyle
became the basketball because it was totally different, more and
fast paid. Life was more upbeat playing a basketball for
it was more physical, had a baptis both frames. That
(03:27):
was the thing about Kobe. He practically grew up before
our eyes. We saw his greatest moments, like when he
scored eighty one points in one game against the Toronto
Raptors in two thousand six, or when he scored sixty
points in his final game for the Lakers against the
Utah Jazz ten years later, and we saw his worst moments,
(03:48):
his arrest for sexual assault and the resulting scandal that
bled from two thousand three into two thousand four. At best,
for his most devoted fans, it remained yeah but in
fact about him for the rest of his life. At worst,
it was an alleged act so reprehensible that to some
people it turned him into a villain forever. No matter
(04:16):
what your perspective is on Kobe, though, you have to
admit that he was more than just famous. He was
a fascinating figure. And these tapes I'm going to play
for you over the course of this series provide a
glimpse of Kobe that few people had while he was alive.
This is Kobe as he was, but more than that,
(04:36):
this is Kobe as he was figuring out who he
would be. I'm Mike Sealski and from Diversion podcasts, this
is I am Kobe. I the right to create myself,
(05:02):
create yourself, stay nice and go on, create yourself. You
gotta learn from the great minds so we gain't sell them.
That's getting time Episode one. The tapes step between the court,
the topic that just put out your problems sides black
(05:24):
half a good time and you get home and try
to work things out, trying to see what the problem is.
But I probably the ton of gone. Yeah. Let it
affect you as a first, the problem as you have
the making weak, make you short, and you have to
know where the channel. Little problems telling right, So where
(05:47):
did these tapes come from? Well, to answer that, let's
introduce you to another important character in the story. I
mean he absolutely new. Yeah. I mean if your expectations
you're going to jump from HIG school NBA, and you
yourself know you're different and you're special, and I think
(06:08):
he knew that, and he knew his talents or amazing.
That's Jeremy treatment. You probably haven't heard of him, not
unless you've immersed yourself and all the details of Kobe's
(06:29):
life story or in the history and culture of Philadelphia
area high school basketball. Jeremy has been a mover and
shaker in that world for about a quarter century. These days,
he has a company that arranges, organizes, promotes, and televises
high school and college basketball tournaments. Lebron James, Kevin Durant,
Dwight Howard, all of them played in games in high
(06:50):
school that Jeremy set up. He founded a camp for
teenagers who want to become play by play voices, and
he gets some of the biggest names in the business
to speak to the kid. Adam Schefter, Tracy Wolfson, Charles Barkley.
I'm gonna go with Scottie Barnes at a Florida State
in the figure process. In this draft, Scottie Barnes is
a six eight small authorities about He's absolutely a fletted
(07:11):
demon and its upside the strigger route. But for the
SBC radio show make sure you call us seven three
to four, Jeremy is high intensive Martin. He'll admit to
you he can come off a little bit neurotic at times.
That's how he's been able to build his career. And
that career began back in the fall of when he
was twenty six years old writing for the Philadelphia Inquiry
(07:34):
and he met a fourteen year old kid named Kobe Bryant.
Thank you, hey, we want to leave him in there
for section I'm to tell you let me put him in.
Christ Jeremy and I met up one afternoon in August
one at his brother's house on Long Beach hild in
New Jersey. Chucky, Jeremy's ten year old chocolate lab joined
(07:57):
us too. What you just heard is removing two large
zip lock bags full of micro cassette tapes, tapes that
I used to write a book about Kobe, tapes that
you'll hear throughout this series. Tapes that Jeremy made Jeremy
didn't just meet Kobe, he coached Kobe, and he became
a confident onto Kobe. They were close friends, so close
(08:20):
that the two of them roomed together during a trip
to South Carolina when the Lower Marion Aces went down
there for a tournament. So close that when Kobe decided
he was skipping college and going straight to the NBA,
Jeremy was one of the first people he told. So
close that during Kobe's senior year of high school and
his first season with the Lakers, he and Jeremy began
(08:40):
sitting down for long interviews and collaborating on a book.
It was Jeremy who was the one asking Kobe questions
on all those tapes, and there's a line in there
and a little friend, Jeremy Japan was buying to write
a book on him. The book never got written, and
as the years passed, their relationship changed. In some ways,
(09:01):
they grew apart. In some ways, you could argue Jeremy
wasn't really a part of Kobe's life anymore. They didn't
stay in close contact. Kobe had become a global superstar
and there were only so many people in his inner
circle Jeremy really wasn't in Kobe's orbit anymore. When they
did see each other and interact, there seemed a growing
(09:23):
distance between them. It was natural, really. Kobe was off
in l a growing older, moving on from high school
and Lower Marian winning NBA championships, becoming a star for
the Lakers, becoming more famous than just about anyone had
expected him to become, anyone except maybe Kobe himself. All
the while, Jeremy stayed in the Philadelphia area working in
(09:45):
the sports media industry, becoming a basketball promoter and entrepreneur.
The two of them didn't see each other nearly as
much as they once did. They weren't nearly as close. Hey, okay, now,
how do you feel about a lot of time. But
Jeremy's loyalty to Kobe and the Bryant family never wavered.
(10:07):
Whenever Kobe was in the news for one reason or
another and CNN wanted to talk to someone about him,
Jeremy was just a phone call away, happy to describe
who Kobe was as a kid, and to explain how
that young Kobe was connected to this grown up Kobe.
And think about it, if you were Jeremy treating why
would you want that connection to Kobe to be severed.
(10:29):
You were at the ground floor for one hell of
a rocket ride. So we hand me He's uh. I
was like, you know, there was a time I really
was close to Kobe Bryant. This was the time, you know,
this is the thirty tapes, just me and him sitting
there talking and nobody else before. And you get into
(10:49):
the n B a while he was in high school,
actually when it was in the NBA first two years
and this is just company I think a four or
five year period. Um, it was a special time, you know,
to be like a small part of history of like
one of the most iconic people ever live in his
or her profession, in this case basketball, it's kind of
(11:10):
an amazing thing. Hey, this is Mike Selsky, host and
writer of I Am Kobe. This podcast project came out
of my work on a related book called The Rise
(11:33):
Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality. If you want
to explore other parts of Kobe's story, check out The Rise.
It's not just a book version of the podcast. I
dive deeper into some of the topics covered in this series,
and even some that we don't cover at all. Kobe's upbringing,
his family, his identity, his effect on his friends and teammates,
(11:54):
his journey into the NBA, and his earliest days with
the Lakers. The Rise Kobe Bryant, It and the Pursuit
of Immortality is out now. Just head over to the
Rise of Kobe book dot com and you can buy
it from any of your favorite retailers. That's the Rise
of Kobe Book dot com. Thanks. My name is Mike Sealsky.
(12:28):
I've covered sports in the Philadelphia area for more than
twenty years, the last eight as a columnist for The
Philadelphia Inquiry. Philadelphia is as sports crazed as any city
in the country, and as a columnist, I have the
freedom to weigh in on the Eagles in the fall,
the Sixers and Flyers in the winter, and the Phillies
in the summer. It's the job I always wanted. My
(12:51):
favorite part of it, though, is being able to tell
a story, especially a human one, A story that's not
really about sports, A story that has a new and
unique angle on a person or a topic that has
already been covered a lot. A person, for instance, like
Kobe Bryant. I covered Kobe sporadically throughout his twenty year
(13:12):
career in the NBA, usually when the Lakers were in town.
I was there in Philadelphia to cover the two thousand
one NBA Finals when the Lakers faced the Sixers. During
one press conference, Kobe told Sixers fans that he planned
to cut their hearts out, and then he did. The
Lakers won the series, Kobe's second championship in five games,
(13:32):
celebrating on the Sixers home court. I was there in
the Lakers locker room in March two thousand seven. Things
between Kobe and the team were rocky there, and he
was still trying to cleanse himself of the stain of
the sexual assault charges and scandal in Colorado a few
years earlier. The Lakers lost to the Sixers that night
in Philly, and I asked Kobe after that game if
(13:55):
he had given any thought to finishing his career with
his hometown team. He told me, it would be nice
to play here. In high school, It's all I thought about.
And I was there in December for Kobe's final NBA
game in Philadelphia. During a press conference before that game,
he recalled his fondness for playing in his hometown before
(14:21):
coming to this arena, there are some of the behind
the scenes things that maybe people that you've known since
you grew up here do for you, or or some
of the fun things that happened to open man. Every
time I come here, there's there's fresh press sit at
the top of while you played with a lot of
great I knew Jeremy treatment too. I met him in
(14:42):
when I was in college, just starting my writing career,
not long after Kobe had finished high school, just after
one journey had ended and just before another began. Jeremy
had tried to co author Kobe's memoir in the late
nineteen nineties, and when that didn't work out, he approached
me in two thousand mine about collaborating on a book.
It would focus exclusively on Kobe's senior year in high school.
(15:06):
Jeremy was crushed that he couldn't find the tapes of
the interviews he conducted with Kobe all those years before,
but he did have transcripts of several of them. He
had remained in close contact with many members of Lower
Marian's state championship team, including Greg Downer, Kobe's coach. Of course,
I had to ask, would Kobe help us? Not much,
(15:29):
Jeremy told me, but we knew he returned to the
Philadelphia area at least once a year and often visited
Lower Merian when he was in town. Maybe we could
catch him for a couple of minutes at his old
high school or in the locker room after a game.
It would be enough. We could do this. Actually, no,
we couldn't, at least not. In two thousand nine, I
(15:50):
was offered and I accepted a new job in New York,
and I had to relocate Jeremy and I scuttled the project.
Kobe's death, though, gave his life a new, more intense residence.
Writing about him as a columnist, I could go and
had gone, only so deep. There was so much more there.
It seems certain anecdotes about him had been repeated incessantly
(16:13):
over time, as if those memories alone explained it. But
what about the forces and circumstances and people who had
shaped him before he was even born. What kind of
effected growing up when he did, where he did have
on him, What people influenced him when he was younger,
and how did he in turn influence them. There was
(16:34):
so much of the man we still didn't know or
had forgotten, especially from those all important formative years before
he was the Black Mamba. Here's Kobe speaking to Charlie
Rose in a two thousand, one sixty minutes interview about
how growing up in Italy influenced him. I learned Italianan
started for his great over here in the Italian school.
(16:56):
I was six with seven eight. What influence you think
could had on you? I think it made me more mature.
You know, we had to grow up a lot faster.
I think it uh, it brought us closer together as
a family, because that's moving out there into a whole
another world. We didn't speak the language, we didn't know anybody.
We had to buy them with one another. More so
than anything, Kobe entered the NBA when he was just
(17:19):
seventeen years old, which made it seem as if he'd
sprouted fully formed from a hill in Hollywood. People got
to see his triumphs the Lakers have one back in
the A Championship and their six game overall, and they
got to follow his controversies in the case. The whole
(17:42):
country is watching new details and new questions about the
accuser or of NBA star Kobe Bryant, and they saw
him become a lightning rod and for many people. He
remained one for the rest of his life. When Jack
sits up there and says that Kobe didn't want to
give him the ball during the final series that they
lost the five games in Detroit, pistons, I'll be dead
(18:03):
if he's lying. But I knew there was also a
compelling story about his life before the Lakers. It was
a story worth telling with as much honesty and accuracy
as possible. You can send Kobe's passion for basketball in
this clip from NBC ten Philadelphia, when he was just
a kid with aspirations to make it to the NBA.
But the superhero tonight was Kobe the Junior simply refused
(18:27):
to lose as he took over the game in funch time,
pouring in eighteen fourth quarter points, pouring the aces ahead
every time lower Marian needed a bucket number thirty three?
What deliver? So I started researching and writing my own
book about Kobe, and I found that there were people
who were eager to help me. Jeremy Treatment was one
(18:48):
of those people. He gave me the transcripts of his
interviews with Kobe. They were terrific, really insightful, and I
was trucking along with my manuscript. As Christmas approached, my
book deadline less than two months away. Then Jeremy called
me on December. He was about to move from his
townhouse in Philadelphia, which he had owned for years, to
(19:11):
poke a raton Florida. He'd been cleaning out his garage
and loading up his car for the trick. I'm an
extremely hard worker. Think that's done very well for myself.
But one of the things that I've never moved on
is procrastinating. More procrastinators Mike Selski has found out. So
(19:32):
when I decided to move, and I just kept looking
at my garage, looking at my garage, I said, somebody's
gotta get somebody's gotta do this. Who can I hire?
Who can I get the diva? Like you know, there's
only one person who can do this and go through
seventy boxes in my garage, and that's Jeremy Treeman. I'm
the only one who knows what to throw out, what
to do. So I had to make myself do it
because I was out. I had a band coming to
(19:55):
move the stuff, and so I went down to my
crawl space. I said, I'm gonna look for these Kope
tapes one more time. They're in that crawl space. I
know I put him there because thats where I put
my old tapes, all my games, my videos, all my
articles are athlone, all these magazines I wrote for in
the nineties and early two thousands. And I found all
that stuff except the tapes. And I went down there again.
I risked smashing my head down there and could barely
(20:18):
There's barely a light on, and I couldn't find it.
I was frustrated, and then I, you know, I was.
I was going through these boxes boxes. I was about
a day a day and a half away from leaving,
and I found a bunch of copy stuff, including the
sign cards and the Magic Johnson. I knew where those were.
The Magic Johnson signed covered those. I knew where they were.
I always had those a protective um. And then I
(20:41):
was just moving things and I go, oh my god,
micro cassettes, microssettes, shelf to back back wall, this is it.
And I looked at once, said Kobe on it. Then
I was like, no, it can't be. I was like yes, yes,
And I was like we called we called Pam. Now
I can't call it him. Alright, let me call Mike Selski.
I'm still surprised I didn't drop the phone. Early the
(21:20):
next morning, I drove forty five minutes from my home
to Jeremy's. Both of us massed against COVID. He reached
into a cardboard box on a shelf and removed a
plastic zip bag of micro cassettes, twenty of them at all,
and the device he had used to record. The recorder
didn't have batteries. It didn't even have a panel for
the opening where you insert the batteries. Some of the
(21:41):
cassettes had Kobe written on them in long faded ink,
one said Joe. Not all of them were interviews with Kobe,
but enough of them were, and on these cassettes in
the recordings I eventually spent hundreds of hours listening to,
there were glimpses of the athlete and the man that
Kobe became. Yeah, they realized that when the nightly basis,
(22:03):
God come out and kill you, So you got to
prepare yourself. Yeah, I think that. I know. I'm going
to prepare myself if a god comes out and kill me,
I'm not gonna sit back and kill everything. I can't stop.
And if you, even if he does like me up
and have to look at the video team and see
what did he do that That beat me every time.
(22:25):
That's how I'm playing every move on. When he touched
his nose, when he touches there, you know everything Kobe
said that to Jeremy treatment It's difficult to comprehend how
long ago that was. Bill Clinton had just been re
(22:45):
elected president, but the news of the Monica Lewinsky scandal
hadn't broken yet. The terrorist attacks of September eleventh, two
one were four years away. Email was still a new,
exotic technology that most people did news, and Jeremy Treaton
was tight with the kid who would become the best
basketball player in the world. This podcast tells the story
(23:09):
of a friend of Kobe Bryant's who had a front
row seat for a wild ride few others have witnessed.
A guy who was Kobe's closest confidante, who knew things
about Kobe and saw sides of him that no one
else got to see. A guy who will help you
see the great Kobe Bryant in an entirely new way.
This series also tells the story of how Kobe Bryant
(23:32):
prepared himself to become a unique athlete and a larger
than life figure. You'll meet the Kobe who only so
many people knew, The Kobe who was a teenager in
nineties America. The Kobe who was unsure of himself when
he started high school, who changed a high school basketball
program and an entire community. The Kobe who dared to
(23:54):
believe he could become an NBA player without going to
college at a time when believing such a thing was
considered crazy. The Kobe who would go on to alter
professional sports for everyone who followed him, and who transcended
what it meant to be a professional athlete on the
world stage. I want to tell you the story of
(24:15):
the Young Mamba. I Am Kobe is a production of
The Version podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
season is written and hosted by me Mike Sealsky, gets
(24:38):
produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by Mark Francis. Story
editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction from Scott Waxman, Editing,
mixing and sound design by Mark Francis. Stephen Tompkins is
our production assistant. Our theme music is Create Yourself by
Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find Create Yourself where ever
(25:00):
you stream Music. Music supervisor is Scott Velaska's for Free
Sons Sinking executive producers are Mark Francis and Scott Waxman.
Join the conversation about I Am Kobe on social media
on Twitter and Instagram. It's at Diversion Pods thanks to
Rain Rosenbaum, Susan Canavan and Jeremy Treatment. I loved Ibries
(25:23):
before the sun. They don't understand when I said to
Brian is fun. Never clocked you out. Even when my
work is done. If they're trying to block me, I
might hurt someone throw the blood sweat and says, we perseverit,
stay tending in, let it, keep the horses. And then
if they don't believe in themselves, jable Verte defend that
at Sampa, says, so I'm telling them as my a.
This the reason why I'm I'm working so damn different.
(25:45):
So the negatives I can't listen to see me at
the time, you can't listen where I'm anna vote to
play like cashes see I pay my dudes because of
Texas gotta work. I thinking briand ahead of his time.
If I'm saying that they made you, don't tell him
you ain't yourself the best Finn watch us but this
(26:05):
bad that time you gotta steak clock, then break clock
break we create ourselves, watch me question, watch the create myself,
sat Cli signs up, create yourself, stay nice, ain't go hard,
create yourself. Gotta learn from the great minds. But we
(26:27):
ain't lying. Tell them next any time this talent wasn't given,
it was made. If future, any time I could change,
you better tell them that I made it back home.
As I walked through the oars of the fame, I
came from the valley of the shadow, with death waiting
for usself. Spoons, don't hold your breath, sat Town sat Train.
But I did it with less. I know one that
the being. So there's nothing to guess. Yeah, there's nothing
(26:49):
to guess. It's all times. So then we up next.
We don't got any rerests. I did it with my
soul hands, and we never forgets my an. This the
reason why my work so damn different to the negatives.
I can't listen see me at the time. You can't
listen for where rebuild, reach shape, give me your eye.
You got to risk take do it now. When I'm
(27:12):
saying while waves, I'm saying that they made. You don't
tell them you create yourself the bess you finling. Watch
us why it's bad that time you gotta steak clock,
then break clock. Break. We create ourselves, watch me, watch me,
watch me create myself. Shack climbs. Times up and create yourself.
(27:36):
Say nice and ain't no hard create yourself. You gotta
learn from the great minds, so we ain't lying. Tell
them that Game time diversion podcasts
Diversion podcasts. Hey, my name is Kobe Bryant, and I
love to play basketball and has always been my dream,
my go to play in the National Basketball Association ever
since I was I was four or five years old,
and I've always loved the game. H I love the
(00:28):
smell of the love it hardwood, compute on the playground,
switching the net. I just I just went with up
the game. I don't know where that came from, just
always been there. You probably know that voice. That was
Kobe Bryant, basketball superstar for the Los Angeles Lakers, five
(00:50):
time NBA champion, eighteen time All Star, Academy Award winning filmmaker,
children's book author, husband, father, Sometimes a lightning rod for
controversy and conflict, always a competitor beyond compare, a global icon.
When Kobe, his daughter, Gianna, and seven other people died
(01:13):
in a helicopter crash in January, Kobe was as famous
as recognizable as any athlete on the planet. Over his
two decades with the Lakers, he scored thirty three thousand,
six hundred and forty three points. That's more than Michael
Jordan's scored, more than wil Chamberlain scored way more than
(01:35):
Dr j or Shaquille O'Neil or Larry Bird scored. Kobe
also won five championships in two Olympic gold medals. His
nickname was the Black Mamba because he was so deadly
when the game mattered most. And you know what's funny
about that nickname, Kobe gave it to himself, which kind
of tells you everything you need to know about it.
(01:58):
We're just gonna be the same person that I've been
up to this point in high school basketball player with
a lot of confidence that went out there and played well.
I just wanted to win the basketball game, you know,
And that's what I'm gonna be. I'm gonna be a
basketball player that just enjoys the player. But the tapes
you're hearing aren't from the later years of his Lakers career,
(02:18):
when Kobe was already a celebrity. There from just a
few years after he and his family moved back to
the United States. They've been living in Italy for eight years.
Some of the tapes I want to play for you
are from when Kobe was a senior at Lower Merion
High School near Philadelphia. Some are from the weeks just
(02:39):
after he graduated and some are from his first season
with the Lakers. All of them are from the time
of his life when he was still just seventeen or
eighteen years old, when he was just beginning his path
to glory. Always played basketball. My family moved to Italy.
I was raised over there. I think Matroy very well
(03:02):
over there, fascinating anybody else here in American media, And
when I came back, I had to addapt the lifestyle
became the basketball because it was totally different, more and
fast paid. Life was more upbeat playing a basketball for
it was more physical, had a baptis both frames. That
(03:27):
was the thing about Kobe. He practically grew up before
our eyes. We saw his greatest moments, like when he
scored eighty one points in one game against the Toronto
Raptors in two thousand six, or when he scored sixty
points in his final game for the Lakers against the
Utah Jazz ten years later, and we saw his worst moments,
(03:48):
his arrest for sexual assault and the resulting scandal that
bled from two thousand three into two thousand four. At best,
for his most devoted fans, it remained yeah but in
fact about him for the rest of his life. At worst,
it was an alleged act so reprehensible that to some
people it turned him into a villain forever. No matter
(04:16):
what your perspective is on Kobe, though, you have to
admit that he was more than just famous. He was
a fascinating figure. And these tapes I'm going to play
for you over the course of this series provide a
glimpse of Kobe that few people had while he was alive.
This is Kobe as he was, but more than that,
(04:36):
this is Kobe as he was figuring out who he
would be. I'm Mike Sealski and from Diversion podcasts, this
is I am Kobe. I the right to create myself,
(05:02):
create yourself, stay nice and go on, create yourself. You
gotta learn from the great minds so we gain't sell them.
That's getting time Episode one. The tapes step between the court,
the topic that just put out your problems sides black
(05:24):
half a good time and you get home and try
to work things out, trying to see what the problem is.
But I probably the ton of gone. Yeah. Let it
affect you as a first, the problem as you have
the making weak, make you short, and you have to
know where the channel. Little problems telling right, So where
(05:47):
did these tapes come from? Well, to answer that, let's
introduce you to another important character in the story. I
mean he absolutely new. Yeah. I mean if your expectations
you're going to jump from HIG school NBA, and you
yourself know you're different and you're special, and I think
(06:08):
he knew that, and he knew his talents or amazing.
That's Jeremy treatment. You probably haven't heard of him, not
unless you've immersed yourself and all the details of Kobe's
(06:29):
life story or in the history and culture of Philadelphia
area high school basketball. Jeremy has been a mover and
shaker in that world for about a quarter century. These days,
he has a company that arranges, organizes, promotes, and televises
high school and college basketball tournaments. Lebron James, Kevin Durant,
Dwight Howard, all of them played in games in high
(06:50):
school that Jeremy set up. He founded a camp for
teenagers who want to become play by play voices, and
he gets some of the biggest names in the business
to speak to the kid. Adam Schefter, Tracy Wolfson, Charles Barkley.
I'm gonna go with Scottie Barnes at a Florida State
in the figure process. In this draft, Scottie Barnes is
a six eight small authorities about He's absolutely a fletted
(07:11):
demon and its upside the strigger route. But for the
SBC radio show make sure you call us seven three
to four, Jeremy is high intensive Martin. He'll admit to
you he can come off a little bit neurotic at times.
That's how he's been able to build his career. And
that career began back in the fall of when he
was twenty six years old writing for the Philadelphia Inquiry
(07:34):
and he met a fourteen year old kid named Kobe Bryant.
Thank you, hey, we want to leave him in there
for section I'm to tell you let me put him in.
Christ Jeremy and I met up one afternoon in August
one at his brother's house on Long Beach hild in
New Jersey. Chucky, Jeremy's ten year old chocolate lab joined
(07:57):
us too. What you just heard is removing two large
zip lock bags full of micro cassette tapes, tapes that
I used to write a book about Kobe, tapes that
you'll hear throughout this series. Tapes that Jeremy made Jeremy
didn't just meet Kobe, he coached Kobe, and he became
a confident onto Kobe. They were close friends, so close
(08:20):
that the two of them roomed together during a trip
to South Carolina when the Lower Marion Aces went down
there for a tournament. So close that when Kobe decided
he was skipping college and going straight to the NBA,
Jeremy was one of the first people he told. So
close that during Kobe's senior year of high school and
his first season with the Lakers, he and Jeremy began
(08:40):
sitting down for long interviews and collaborating on a book.
It was Jeremy who was the one asking Kobe questions
on all those tapes, and there's a line in there
and a little friend, Jeremy Japan was buying to write
a book on him. The book never got written, and
as the years passed, their relationship changed. In some ways,
(09:01):
they grew apart. In some ways, you could argue Jeremy
wasn't really a part of Kobe's life anymore. They didn't
stay in close contact. Kobe had become a global superstar
and there were only so many people in his inner
circle Jeremy really wasn't in Kobe's orbit anymore. When they
did see each other and interact, there seemed a growing
(09:23):
distance between them. It was natural, really. Kobe was off
in l a growing older, moving on from high school
and Lower Marian winning NBA championships, becoming a star for
the Lakers, becoming more famous than just about anyone had
expected him to become, anyone except maybe Kobe himself. All
the while, Jeremy stayed in the Philadelphia area working in
(09:45):
the sports media industry, becoming a basketball promoter and entrepreneur.
The two of them didn't see each other nearly as
much as they once did. They weren't nearly as close. Hey, okay, now,
how do you feel about a lot of time. But
Jeremy's loyalty to Kobe and the Bryant family never wavered.
(10:07):
Whenever Kobe was in the news for one reason or
another and CNN wanted to talk to someone about him,
Jeremy was just a phone call away, happy to describe
who Kobe was as a kid, and to explain how
that young Kobe was connected to this grown up Kobe.
And think about it, if you were Jeremy treating why
would you want that connection to Kobe to be severed.
(10:29):
You were at the ground floor for one hell of
a rocket ride. So we hand me He's uh. I
was like, you know, there was a time I really
was close to Kobe Bryant. This was the time, you know,
this is the thirty tapes, just me and him sitting
there talking and nobody else before. And you get into
(10:49):
the n B a while he was in high school,
actually when it was in the NBA first two years
and this is just company I think a four or
five year period. Um, it was a special time, you know,
to be like a small part of history of like
one of the most iconic people ever live in his
or her profession, in this case basketball, it's kind of
(11:10):
an amazing thing. Hey, this is Mike Selsky, host and
writer of I Am Kobe. This podcast project came out
of my work on a related book called The Rise
(11:33):
Kobe Bryant and the Pursuit of Immortality. If you want
to explore other parts of Kobe's story, check out The Rise.
It's not just a book version of the podcast. I
dive deeper into some of the topics covered in this series,
and even some that we don't cover at all. Kobe's upbringing,
his family, his identity, his effect on his friends and teammates,
(11:54):
his journey into the NBA, and his earliest days with
the Lakers. The Rise Kobe Bryant, It and the Pursuit
of Immortality is out now. Just head over to the
Rise of Kobe book dot com and you can buy
it from any of your favorite retailers. That's the Rise
of Kobe Book dot com. Thanks. My name is Mike Sealsky.
(12:28):
I've covered sports in the Philadelphia area for more than
twenty years, the last eight as a columnist for The
Philadelphia Inquiry. Philadelphia is as sports crazed as any city
in the country, and as a columnist, I have the
freedom to weigh in on the Eagles in the fall,
the Sixers and Flyers in the winter, and the Phillies
in the summer. It's the job I always wanted. My
(12:51):
favorite part of it, though, is being able to tell
a story, especially a human one, A story that's not
really about sports, A story that has a new and
unique angle on a person or a topic that has
already been covered a lot. A person, for instance, like
Kobe Bryant. I covered Kobe sporadically throughout his twenty year
(13:12):
career in the NBA, usually when the Lakers were in town.
I was there in Philadelphia to cover the two thousand
one NBA Finals when the Lakers faced the Sixers. During
one press conference, Kobe told Sixers fans that he planned
to cut their hearts out, and then he did. The
Lakers won the series, Kobe's second championship in five games,
(13:32):
celebrating on the Sixers home court. I was there in
the Lakers locker room in March two thousand seven. Things
between Kobe and the team were rocky there, and he
was still trying to cleanse himself of the stain of
the sexual assault charges and scandal in Colorado a few
years earlier. The Lakers lost to the Sixers that night
in Philly, and I asked Kobe after that game if
(13:55):
he had given any thought to finishing his career with
his hometown team. He told me, it would be nice
to play here. In high school, It's all I thought about.
And I was there in December for Kobe's final NBA
game in Philadelphia. During a press conference before that game,
he recalled his fondness for playing in his hometown before
(14:21):
coming to this arena, there are some of the behind
the scenes things that maybe people that you've known since
you grew up here do for you, or or some
of the fun things that happened to open man. Every
time I come here, there's there's fresh press sit at
the top of while you played with a lot of
great I knew Jeremy treatment too. I met him in
(14:42):
when I was in college, just starting my writing career,
not long after Kobe had finished high school, just after
one journey had ended and just before another began. Jeremy
had tried to co author Kobe's memoir in the late
nineteen nineties, and when that didn't work out, he approached
me in two thousand mine about collaborating on a book.
It would focus exclusively on Kobe's senior year in high school.
(15:06):
Jeremy was crushed that he couldn't find the tapes of
the interviews he conducted with Kobe all those years before,
but he did have transcripts of several of them. He
had remained in close contact with many members of Lower
Marian's state championship team, including Greg Downer, Kobe's coach. Of course,
I had to ask, would Kobe help us? Not much,
(15:29):
Jeremy told me, but we knew he returned to the
Philadelphia area at least once a year and often visited
Lower Merian when he was in town. Maybe we could
catch him for a couple of minutes at his old
high school or in the locker room after a game.
It would be enough. We could do this. Actually, no,
we couldn't, at least not. In two thousand nine, I
(15:50):
was offered and I accepted a new job in New York,
and I had to relocate Jeremy and I scuttled the project.
Kobe's death, though, gave his life a new, more intense residence.
Writing about him as a columnist, I could go and
had gone, only so deep. There was so much more there.
It seems certain anecdotes about him had been repeated incessantly
(16:13):
over time, as if those memories alone explained it. But
what about the forces and circumstances and people who had
shaped him before he was even born. What kind of
effected growing up when he did, where he did have
on him, What people influenced him when he was younger,
and how did he in turn influence them. There was
(16:34):
so much of the man we still didn't know or
had forgotten, especially from those all important formative years before
he was the Black Mamba. Here's Kobe speaking to Charlie
Rose in a two thousand, one sixty minutes interview about
how growing up in Italy influenced him. I learned Italianan
started for his great over here in the Italian school.
(16:56):
I was six with seven eight. What influence you think
could had on you? I think it made me more mature.
You know, we had to grow up a lot faster.
I think it uh, it brought us closer together as
a family, because that's moving out there into a whole
another world. We didn't speak the language, we didn't know anybody.
We had to buy them with one another. More so
than anything, Kobe entered the NBA when he was just
(17:19):
seventeen years old, which made it seem as if he'd
sprouted fully formed from a hill in Hollywood. People got
to see his triumphs the Lakers have one back in
the A Championship and their six game overall, and they
got to follow his controversies in the case. The whole
(17:42):
country is watching new details and new questions about the
accuser or of NBA star Kobe Bryant, and they saw
him become a lightning rod and for many people. He
remained one for the rest of his life. When Jack
sits up there and says that Kobe didn't want to
give him the ball during the final series that they
lost the five games in Detroit, pistons, I'll be dead
(18:03):
if he's lying. But I knew there was also a
compelling story about his life before the Lakers. It was
a story worth telling with as much honesty and accuracy
as possible. You can send Kobe's passion for basketball in
this clip from NBC ten Philadelphia, when he was just
a kid with aspirations to make it to the NBA.
But the superhero tonight was Kobe the Junior simply refused
(18:27):
to lose as he took over the game in funch time,
pouring in eighteen fourth quarter points, pouring the aces ahead
every time lower Marian needed a bucket number thirty three?
What deliver? So I started researching and writing my own
book about Kobe, and I found that there were people
who were eager to help me. Jeremy Treatment was one
(18:48):
of those people. He gave me the transcripts of his
interviews with Kobe. They were terrific, really insightful, and I
was trucking along with my manuscript. As Christmas approached, my
book deadline less than two months away. Then Jeremy called
me on December. He was about to move from his
townhouse in Philadelphia, which he had owned for years, to
(19:11):
poke a raton Florida. He'd been cleaning out his garage
and loading up his car for the trick. I'm an
extremely hard worker. Think that's done very well for myself.
But one of the things that I've never moved on
is procrastinating. More procrastinators Mike Selski has found out. So
(19:32):
when I decided to move, and I just kept looking
at my garage, looking at my garage, I said, somebody's
gotta get somebody's gotta do this. Who can I hire?
Who can I get the diva? Like you know, there's
only one person who can do this and go through
seventy boxes in my garage, and that's Jeremy Treeman. I'm
the only one who knows what to throw out, what
to do. So I had to make myself do it
because I was out. I had a band coming to
(19:55):
move the stuff, and so I went down to my
crawl space. I said, I'm gonna look for these Kope
tapes one more time. They're in that crawl space. I
know I put him there because thats where I put
my old tapes, all my games, my videos, all my
articles are athlone, all these magazines I wrote for in
the nineties and early two thousands. And I found all
that stuff except the tapes. And I went down there again.
I risked smashing my head down there and could barely
(20:18):
There's barely a light on, and I couldn't find it.
I was frustrated, and then I, you know, I was.
I was going through these boxes boxes. I was about
a day a day and a half away from leaving,
and I found a bunch of copy stuff, including the
sign cards and the Magic Johnson. I knew where those were.
The Magic Johnson signed covered those. I knew where they were.
I always had those a protective um. And then I
(20:41):
was just moving things and I go, oh my god,
micro cassettes, microssettes, shelf to back back wall, this is it.
And I looked at once, said Kobe on it. Then
I was like, no, it can't be. I was like yes, yes,
And I was like we called we called Pam. Now
I can't call it him. Alright, let me call Mike Selski.
I'm still surprised I didn't drop the phone. Early the
(21:20):
next morning, I drove forty five minutes from my home
to Jeremy's. Both of us massed against COVID. He reached
into a cardboard box on a shelf and removed a
plastic zip bag of micro cassettes, twenty of them at all,
and the device he had used to record. The recorder
didn't have batteries. It didn't even have a panel for
the opening where you insert the batteries. Some of the
(21:41):
cassettes had Kobe written on them in long faded ink,
one said Joe. Not all of them were interviews with Kobe,
but enough of them were, and on these cassettes in
the recordings I eventually spent hundreds of hours listening to,
there were glimpses of the athlete and the man that
Kobe became. Yeah, they realized that when the nightly basis,
(22:03):
God come out and kill you, So you got to
prepare yourself. Yeah, I think that. I know. I'm going
to prepare myself if a god comes out and kill me,
I'm not gonna sit back and kill everything. I can't stop.
And if you, even if he does like me up
and have to look at the video team and see
what did he do that That beat me every time.
(22:25):
That's how I'm playing every move on. When he touched
his nose, when he touches there, you know everything Kobe
said that to Jeremy treatment It's difficult to comprehend how
long ago that was. Bill Clinton had just been re
(22:45):
elected president, but the news of the Monica Lewinsky scandal
hadn't broken yet. The terrorist attacks of September eleventh, two
one were four years away. Email was still a new,
exotic technology that most people did news, and Jeremy Treaton
was tight with the kid who would become the best
basketball player in the world. This podcast tells the story
(23:09):
of a friend of Kobe Bryant's who had a front
row seat for a wild ride few others have witnessed.
A guy who was Kobe's closest confidante, who knew things
about Kobe and saw sides of him that no one
else got to see. A guy who will help you
see the great Kobe Bryant in an entirely new way.
This series also tells the story of how Kobe Bryant
(23:32):
prepared himself to become a unique athlete and a larger
than life figure. You'll meet the Kobe who only so
many people knew, The Kobe who was a teenager in
nineties America. The Kobe who was unsure of himself when
he started high school, who changed a high school basketball
program and an entire community. The Kobe who dared to
(23:54):
believe he could become an NBA player without going to
college at a time when believing such a thing was
considered crazy. The Kobe who would go on to alter
professional sports for everyone who followed him, and who transcended
what it meant to be a professional athlete on the
world stage. I want to tell you the story of
(24:15):
the Young Mamba. I Am Kobe is a production of
The Version podcasts in association with I Heart Radio. This
season is written and hosted by me Mike Sealsky, gets
(24:38):
produced by Jacob Bronstein and directed by Mark Francis. Story
editing by Jacob Bronstein, with editorial direction from Scott Waxman, Editing,
mixing and sound design by Mark Francis. Stephen Tompkins is
our production assistant. Our theme music is Create Yourself by
Grover Brown featuring Justin Starling. Find Create Yourself where ever
(25:00):
you stream Music. Music supervisor is Scott Velaska's for Free
Sons Sinking executive producers are Mark Francis and Scott Waxman.
Join the conversation about I Am Kobe on social media
on Twitter and Instagram. It's at Diversion Pods thanks to
Rain Rosenbaum, Susan Canavan and Jeremy Treatment. I loved Ibries
(25:23):
before the sun. They don't understand when I said to
Brian is fun. Never clocked you out. Even when my
work is done. If they're trying to block me, I
might hurt someone throw the blood sweat and says, we perseverit,
stay tending in, let it, keep the horses. And then
if they don't believe in themselves, jable Verte defend that
at Sampa, says, so I'm telling them as my a.
This the reason why I'm I'm working so damn different.
(25:45):
So the negatives I can't listen to see me at
the time, you can't listen where I'm anna vote to
play like cashes see I pay my dudes because of
Texas gotta work. I thinking briand ahead of his time.
If I'm saying that they made you, don't tell him
you ain't yourself the best Finn watch us but this
(26:05):
bad that time you gotta steak clock, then break clock
break we create ourselves, watch me question, watch the create myself,
sat Cli signs up, create yourself, stay nice, ain't go hard,
create yourself. Gotta learn from the great minds. But we
(26:27):
ain't lying. Tell them next any time this talent wasn't given,
it was made. If future, any time I could change,
you better tell them that I made it back home.
As I walked through the oars of the fame, I
came from the valley of the shadow, with death waiting
for usself. Spoons, don't hold your breath, sat Town sat Train.
But I did it with less. I know one that
the being. So there's nothing to guess. Yeah, there's nothing
(26:49):
to guess. It's all times. So then we up next.
We don't got any rerests. I did it with my
soul hands, and we never forgets my an. This the
reason why my work so damn different to the negatives.
I can't listen see me at the time. You can't
listen for where rebuild, reach shape, give me your eye.
You got to risk take do it now. When I'm
(27:12):
saying while waves, I'm saying that they made. You don't
tell them you create yourself the bess you finling. Watch
us why it's bad that time you gotta steak clock,
then break clock. Break. We create ourselves, watch me, watch me,
watch me create myself. Shack climbs. Times up and create yourself.
(27:36):
Say nice and ain't no hard create yourself. You gotta
learn from the great minds, so we ain't lying. Tell
them that Game time diversion podcasts
Host
Mike Sielski
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