October 9, 2024 • 51 mins
Ricki Lake is telling all! From her experience in an open relationship to finding love after loss, no topic is off limits in Part 1 of this conversation. Plus, Ricki explains why she's glad that she no longer has a talk show.
Listen to Part 2 of this conversation on Ricki's podcast "The High Life"
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. My
guest today is known for being an actress in cult
classic movies like Hairspray and cry Baby. She was a
(00:23):
successful talk show host for many years, and now she's
creating documentary films about things she is passionate about, from
natural birth to marijuana to birth control. She's the host
of her own podcast, The High Life. This is part
one of our conversation. Please welcome the incomparable Ricky Lake
to the Eyes Choose Me podcast. We've never met, Well,
(00:45):
we've met, but like little brief encounters.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It doesn't really count.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But yes, and I feel like I know you same same, Okay,
good good. I love to hear about where people come
from and why they are the way they are, So
if I could, I would love to just explore your
childhood a little bit, because our childhoods have such a
huge impact on who we are and like the rest
(01:11):
of our lives. So can you take me back to
your beginnings a little bit? Like what kind of a
household did you grow up in?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah? So I am from Westchester County, New York. Officially,
I was raised in Hastings on Hudson, which is like
twenty five minutes outside of the city. And I was
a pretty normal kid. I had a lot of personality,
and I had two parents that you know, stayed married
until for forty three years. So my childhood I was
(01:38):
in a you know, a home that had its own
dysfunction for sure. It's just my sister and me were
fourteen months apart. I'm the older sibling. I love to perform.
I you know, I'm a little bit older than you.
I'm fifty five, soon to be fifty six. And I
grew up, you know, watching Little House on the Prairie,
and in fact, I changed my name to Laura Ingalls
when I was in like kindergartener first grade. Like, I
(02:00):
was obsessed with Melissa Gilbert and which you know, your
costar Shannon Daugherty had one of her starts on that show.
But I was like, I saw too oh, and I
saw Annie. When I was six years old, I went
to the saw the original Broadway cast and my grandma Sylvia,
who you asked, you know, how am I the way
I am? Or how did I become who I am.
(02:20):
So much of it was having my grandma Sylvia as
my role model, as the matriarch of our family. She
died when I was nine, but she was the one
that growing up just out of New York, I went
and saw Broadway, I went to see opera, I went
to see the ballet and so all of that culture.
You know. I remember seeing Annie and I point and
I was like, I want to be her. I yeah,
did you ever do Annie?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Were you a singer? Did you sing? No? Okay, I was.
I wanted to be a singer, and I just like
I just saw that and I was like, that's what
I want to be. And my mother she did the
best she could, but he her, she rejected me and
the idea of that before anyone else had the chance to.
She told me that I wasn't the starving orphan type
(03:03):
and basically encouraged me never to pursue that. So she
didn't cast you. She didn't carry me the audition. She
didn't and you know, and I understand why now, but
at the time it was, you know, it was the
ultimate like slap in the face. And I, you know,
studied singing. I studied dancing. I went through high school
and got really lucky at eighteen to have hear about
the audition for a character Tracy Turnblad in the first Hairspray,
(03:26):
and so it literally changed my entire trajectory. I'd never
been around openly gay people. I was very sort of
sheltered and green and naive and young. So yeah, to
say that, like, my world just completely exploded after that
and moved my I got to move to la at nineteen,
I visited you on that not you, but on the
(03:48):
set of Beverly Hills nine on two one O, because
the guy who played my boyfriend, Link Lark and Michael
Saint Gerard he was on he had an arc on
nine on two and oh, and I came and watched
you guys work and was totally star struck.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh my god. I wish I had known that that
was happening.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I could have said a lot. Yeah, it's like one
of those you know, you have these these memories. I
don't have a lot of memories because I'm old now
and I took a lot of ambience back in the day.
But I do remember that set, and I met Ali Adler,
who was a writer on your show. At that time,
and just it was a classroom scene and I just like,
I just I felt really young. I was probably nineteen
(04:26):
years old, and I just was like so starstruck and
it just yeah, it was a really really fun experience.
See you guys work.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
That's a good story. Thank God for your grandma, by
the way, Yeah, because otherwise your talents may have never
come to the surface. And you, you know, like you
have such a gift. Who knows if it would have happened.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah. What she gave me was like a belief in
myself that you can do anything. I mean, she told me,
she's like, you are the best, You're the smartest, you're
the prettiest, you're the most talented. And you know, clearly
I wasn't, but but I believed it in her eyes
and so that just like just yeah, it was just
that memory, that muscle memory of like she thinks I
(05:09):
can do this. And that's been really like like a
through line of my entire career because who thought I
could be a talk show host? I was twenty three
when they offered me that job. I mean, I just
I was like, Okay, they think I could do it?
Say all right, I'm going to do it?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Where did that come from? Like, wait, I'm skipping ahead,
but I really didn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well, I come from my friends that have known me
for a very long time that I don't have a
doubt gene, Like I don't doubt myself. And that's kind
of true where I just like sort of jump feet first.
I'm very impulsive. I'm extremely impulsive. I act many times
before I have a chance to really think things through.
But if you look at my life and the choices
(05:46):
I've made, it's mostly worked out. Like my instincts are
usually right. And yeah, I love that about myself. Like
I'm just one of those people like I get an idea,
I get a bug up my ass, and I just
go for it, and I yeah, it's worked out pretty well.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Similar, I too, am impulsive, and I have made choices
very quickly in my life and somehow they've worked out.
Even if they didn't work out, they worked out.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Give me an example. What's an example that comes to mind? Um?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, well, having a baby when I was twenty one,
twenty two, twenty three in that era that was impulsive
and crazy because I was so young.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, I was twenty eight when I had my first
so it's still very young, considering like all my friends,
they're having kids much. I have my friend, my friend
Rachel Harris is my age, and she has a five
year old and seven year old. Oh okay, and I
have a twenty seven year old and a twenty three
year old. I can't even imagine trading places like Freaky
Fridaying with her. That would be crazy. But yeah, I
(06:47):
had my kids pretty young. But yeah, I mean so yeah,
so twenty one. Got so how old are your kids?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Twenty seven, twenty one and eighteen?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So the twenty seven when you were pregnant when I
was your daughter? I think you have three girls. I
have two boys. Your oldest daughter was born in ninety seven.
Mine too. How is she doing? She's launched, She's awesome.
Is she the one you have the clothing line with? No?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
She? This is the one that lives in New York
and doing her thing.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah? Mine, loving heart waiting.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
For her to come back.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
You are see. I'm I'm okay. If they never come back,
I mean they want them to visit. I love them visiting.
I'm so glad they have their own lives. I'm an
empty nester. I was one of those parents. That when
I dropped my son off at school. And I love
my children and I love that I'm a mom and
it's my favorite role of my life as being their mom.
But when I dropped him off at college, I peeled
(07:42):
out of that driveway. I couldn't get out of there
fast enough and like, Okay, one down, one to go.
You know you're honesty, It's true, and you know your
whole thing is about choosing you. Yeah, I feel like
this time in my life is like all about like
I she was myself and choosing this relationship with my
(08:02):
new husband. I am playing more than I've played in
a really long time. It just feels like my fifties
is like the brightest time of my life is right now.
It's like reaping the fruits of my labor. Like I've
worked really hard, I've done the right thing for so long.
I've made the sacrifices for everyone around me. I've shown
(08:23):
up for work, I've delivered, and now I kind of
I don't want to say I'm coasting, but I'm certainly
coasting way more than I ever have from the rest
of my life.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For sure, it feels good. I can feel it through
this TV screen. I'm so happy for you being happy.
It's good. Oh we have so many parallels. There's so
so many. We both got started in the industry when
we're pretty young. How old are you about the same
age as you. I was like sixteen seventeen, had very
you know, great childhood idyllic. I feel like I can
(08:55):
really relate to you, and I want to know when
you were growing up in the public I of celebrityism.
What did you think of all of it? How did
it feel to you?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, so I was eighteen, So if you were sixteen,
you were a minor. I was not a miner when
I got hairspray. I was. I was just a freshman
in college and I you know, so I was an
adult quote unquote. But it's definitely not like mature in
any way. And I didn't know anything different, Like it's
just it was just my experience. And also like my
start was with John Waters and this very specific type
of experience. So it was very felt like camp more
(09:30):
than it felt like a job. You know. I was
working really hard, but it was super fun and playful
and I got famous. Like I So, I've told this
story before, but I'll share with you. John Waters sat
me down after we finished making Hairspray. So you know, again,
I'm eighteen. We just had this summer of my life
the movie. You know, you wrap the movie, but then
it takes months for it to come out. And he
(09:50):
sat me down after the making of the film and
he said, I want to give you some advice. He's like,
I have three I want you to remember these three things.
Always stay humble. Always stay true to yourself. If you're
going to read and believe the good things people write
about you, you're going to have to read and believe
the bad. Basically, keep it all in check, keep it
all in perspective. And I feel like that advice, that
talking to and the mentoring he's given me over the
(10:12):
years has managed to help me stay really pretty grounded
and very normal, you know. And so yes, it was
weird becoming famous and making a lot of money and
people knowing my name. I mean, I loved it. It's
what I wanted. It's what I dreamed of when I
saw Annie at six, you know, so like here I am,
like my dream has come true. And it was ultimately
(10:32):
like really positive, like there was nothing you know, it
was only when my career stopped, you know, when I
was about twenty two, twenty one, twenty two, and I
didn't get this big part that I wanted. I was
really devastated. It was a movie called dog Fight. It's
a movie that probably no one really remembers, but it
was with River Phoenix and Lily Taylor got the part.
(10:53):
But it was like something I really really wanted and
it didn't happen for me. And then I couldn't get arrested.
I was on China Beach and I didn't get picked
up my option, you know, the whole thing that things
happen in our business. And I went from like making
all this money to making nothing and had to give
up my house and I was homeless for a short time.
I had to move. I mean, it was but it
was the most humbling experience that I'm so grateful for.
(11:15):
You know. In the end, yes, I lost probably about
two or three hundred thousand dollars in that, you know,
that learning experience, but it taught me so much, you know,
about the value of a dollar, and thankfully I didn't
have a family to support at that time. You know,
It's just like changed everything. And then I got my
talk show. Then I went. Oh, I also went on
it like a crash crash crazy diet because I realized
(11:36):
that the reason, you know, one of the reasons I
wasn't getting parts anymore, I wasn't getting cast in anything,
is because the novelty of being the fat girl had
kind of worn off, and I felt like, Okay, the
only thing I can control in my life is my
physicality and how I take care of myself. So I
went on this crash diet. I lost one hundred pounds,
and then the talk show came my way and lifted
(11:57):
me out of my uh pover and it changed my
life for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Two things on that Okay, so I love those words
of a wisdom that he gave you, right, really good
for John Waters. Yeah, those are like fatherly mm hmm.
That was necessary guidance. But one of them is a
little hard for me. The part where you are supposed
to believe in yourself and love and read and believe
the things that people write about you, the good things,
(12:24):
but also the bad things. Now, with social media the
way it is and everybody having some sort of a
platform to say whatever they think good or bad, do
you still believe that reading bad things about yourself is
something you should let in.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I mean, it's a totally different ballgame now, you know.
And for me, like I'm so glad I don't do
a talk show now you know that. I mean, I
do what I do, and I choose to do what
I'm doing, like I do my own podcast. I love it.
It's like you know, it's it's it's completely something I
want to do. But as far as being in a
situation where you're having to speak out and be whether
(12:58):
it's political or controversial or you know, you can't make
everyone happy and there's this instant reaction from stranger, I mean,
it's just a brutal thing that I don't really participate
much in. Like all my posting is very positive, it's
all about joy, it's all about you know, like very
much what you're about. Yeah, yeah, I really I think
it's like the devil in a lot of ways, Like
(13:21):
we have like made this deal and now with what's
coming up with AI, I mean, it is all terrifying.
But the difference is at fifty five, I know who
I am, I love who I am. I am, Like
i feel like I'm the best me I've ever been
and that comes from life experience that comes from, like,
you know, the things I've achieved, the things I've overcome.
(13:42):
I mean, I've had like a really beautiful journey, and
a lot of it's been really hard. I lost my partner,
my last partner, to mental illness and suicide, and that
was one of probably the hardest thing I've ever had
to I can't say I've overcome it, but to deal
with and learn to live with. But like, yeah, the
things people say about me, it doesn't really affect me
(14:03):
at this point. And I think that is like you
know that cliche when you turn fifty, you don't give
a shit what other people think about you. It's none
of your business what people think about you. And it's
kind of true for me, Like I definitely nothing really
gets to me. And I'm really also lucky that I
have a lot of good will in this industry. People
feel like they know who I am, they like me,
they root for me, and so there's really not a
(14:26):
lot of negative stuff that comes my way.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Thanks right, right, Well, that's because you're just a positive
energy and positive attracting.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Positive I think. So, I mean, I am really positive
and I have a lot to be grateful for.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
And you've had so much. I think also too, it's
about those hardships that we've endured and that we've lived
through and learned so much from that make us so
much more full of gratitude and hope and you know,
just a sense of like achievement that you survive something
so terrible. You know, you really start to turn to
your self in those moments instead of listening to other people.
(15:02):
I think that's really yeahful.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I mean, I think all of the traumatic things that
I've had in my life, and I've had my share,
you know, we all have stuff we go through, but
I think all of it has in the end been
a gift, you know, like I've gotten something out of
all of the hardship, you know, from being sexually molested
as a small child to like just you know, living
(15:25):
through nine to eleven. You know, nine to eleven. I
was there on that day downtown, watched the whole thing
unfold before my very eyes, and I was a new mom.
I had a two month old at that time, So
that was you know, deeply, deeply like world life changing everything.
But like for me, it got me to kind of
make a decision on where I wanted to go with
my career where I wanted to raise my family. I
(15:46):
didn't want to be in New York anymore. I left
New York, I left my talk show, I left my marriage.
I mean, all of that happened after that experience watching
that unfold, and in the end it was a gift
for me. I started focusing on documentary film work, which
is it's like what I want my legacy to be
is like these these pieces of work that really question
why things are the way they are. In that case
(16:09):
with the birth world, you know, so I sort of
found my voice and I found my true passion through
living through something so traumatic.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
The other thing I wanted to circle back on that
you said was the novelty of being the fat girl
wore off. How do you think that shaped who you
are today? Having to really be fronted and faced with
your appearance being connected in a negative way by people.
How did that affect your sense of self and your
(16:45):
your security and yourself all these years.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's a lot to do, A really good question. I mean, ultimately,
it was incredible that I was one of the very
first I can't think of another ingen new girl that
was two hundred pounds, you know. So it was amazing
to like break the mold in that way and to
be so well received, And it was believable watching that movie.
Even today, it's believable that she wins the contest and
(17:10):
she gets the guy. She pause.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I love that movie so much. I could watch it over.
We have watched it a million times in our house.
But you shaped us, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It was so fun and it was me like, I
am just like you are you are. There's a lot
of you that's Kelly, right, yes, right right, Well, at
least I want to think that, but I'm very much
I'm Tracy Turnblad trapped in a fifty five year old
gray haired woman. It just it just, I mean a difference.
Like I was two hundred pounds and adorable when I
did that movie, But I was two hundred and sixty
(17:42):
pounds when I did Cry Baby three years later, you know,
and two hundred and sixty pounds on a five foot
three inch frame. It was a lot, and and it
wasn't working anymore like I was, you know, would go
out on it. I just wasn't getting the parts, and
so I was in a desperate place where I was
supporting myself and I was running out of money and
I needed to do something that I could control. And
(18:03):
it really was like when I think back on it,
you know, it wasn't the healthiest way. I starved myself.
I basically didn't stop eating altogether, but I ate very,
very very little. I joined a gym and would ride
my bike in the valley. I live north of Victory
if you know where that is, like Woodman and Victory.
And at the time it was whatever nineteen was that
ninety two, ninety one ninety two in that area, and
(18:24):
I no one would viit. My friends wouldn't come visit me.
It was like a very much a Spanish speaking neighborhood.
I lived in a poolhouse my back My little house
was a like I had a sliding glass door. I mean,
it was a very humbling time for me, and it
was appropriate for someone who is my age, you know,
who was like went from riches rags to riches and
riches to rags, and then I think it was really
(18:45):
empowering and being able to change my body in the
way I did. It worked like I was, you know,
went from a size twenty four to a size twelve,
you know, in about like six or eight months, like
really really short period of time, and I did it
with the sole purpose of a getting a little bit
healthier and B getting a job. You know, I needed
to work. And so the pilot of the talk show
(19:08):
came around at that time, and it kind of I
think worked as the narrative or my story of like
this relatable girl, this young woman that people root for,
like Tracy Turnblad, you know, I'm like this underdog kind
of character. And so it wasn't calculated in getting a
talk like I never thought I was gonna get a
talk show. Who thinks a twenty something that you're going
(19:30):
to be picked to do something like that. But it
just was like this divine thing that just happened and
it just all worked. Oh did I answer your question?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You did? I feel as if it made you believe
in yourself even more than you already did, and it
made you fight for what you knew was right for you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I like that that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I it's so it's so
I don't spend a lot of time like thinking back
of like like who I was back then, you know,
like why I did this or why I did that?
But yeah, the talk show was such like a comfortable
arena for me. I was so it was a natural thing.
Like in the beginning, I would just channel Oprah because
(20:12):
I was such an Oprah fan and Phil Donahue Bless
his soul, and Sally Jesse, Like I was a big
watcher of those shows. So when they gave me the
microphone and said go, you know, go do it yourself.
You know, I was like, all right, what would Oprah say?
I would channel her? Oh what would Opra say? But
then as I found my footing, It's like I just
I just was a really good listener, and I was
really interested and curious about people and relationships. It was fascinating,
(20:36):
and then it was fun and that it became like
the party that everyone wanted to come to every day
at our show. You know, it was like it was
really special, and I don't think I recognized it. Then
when I'm in it, I'm just in it, and I
was like, oh my god, I'm making this money and
people are like shouting my name, like this is so cool.
But it just felt so normal, like Okay, this is
(20:57):
the next chapter of my career. You know. It's now
looking back on, like what the hell was I thinking?
How presumptuous for me to assume I know what people
should do when they're you know, in relationships. It's like, yeah,
I didn't even know who I was at that time,
but it was it was fun well.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Because we grew up in the way we did, like
in the public eye like that. It's it's as if
we have somehow been encapsulated in people's minds as that
younger version of ourselves, you know, like people will always
see us the way they first saw us. Is that
ever hard for you or do you embrace that?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think it's changed because I have been I've literally
like had all these different facets of my career, you know,
like people know me and it's really funny. John Waters
and I'll joke about it. We're in an airport and like,
you know, a certain type of personal code to me.
Oh they know me from this, like we can kind
of peg him, you know, gay man, he knows obviously
John Water stuff. But then the pregnant mom saw my
(21:52):
documentary about birth, you know, like it's just so funny.
So I think I've reinvented myself and I have changed
my physicality both in way and you know obviously with
my gray hair and I shave my head and my like,
I have a lot of different facets of me. See,
I look at you, and you look exactly the same
from nine and two, and oh you haven't changed at all.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's what I hear a lot, and I'm in my mind,
I'm like, what you talking about? I've changed so much?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
What are the years you were on the air with
nine of two and I was ten years and ninety
the entire decade, So nineteen ninety it launched. Yeah, so
you launched before I went on the air in ninety three.
So I went from ninety three to four, so basically
around the same time frame or basically the same age. Wow, yep, yeah,
that was Those were good times, weren't they.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh? Yes, the best. The nineties were the best.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah. Down, I'm so glad. I talk about it with
my new husband a lot. Ross he's not my new
husband two and a half years we've been married, but
he and I are no similar in age. He's he's
he's incredible, but like we both are so and maybe
you feel the same way. I'm so glad I was
born when I was born, that I lived through our childhood,
we lived through without cell phones, without you know, those
(23:05):
distractions and you know, and our kids never knew what
it was like before that.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So I don't know what's going to happen to the
kids these days, to the young And I have my
daughter the other day because she they have a new
brother that's two years old, and I asked her, I
was like, what do you think is going to be
like for Jack when he's your age? And what she say,
She's like, I don't know, because even you know, my
middle one is able to look at my younger ones
(23:31):
experience right now and think, I'm so glad I didn't
have to deal with that. Yeah, because they're like four
or five years apart. Things change so much. But I
guess we just adapt.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I mean, yes, we will. I wonder what I mean.
I watched that Oprah special on AI last week. It
was so sobering. It was so it's so daunting. I'm
someone who's like, I don't even I was never taught
computer skills, really no, I was never like, I learned
to tie on a typewriter type. I'm really good at it.
(24:03):
I was so good at it. My sister and I were.
It's we're a year apart, but with that elective we
were in the same like doing it at the same time,
so we got very competitive. So I'm really good at typing,
but like I couldn't. I can't. I mean, it's embarrassing
to say, but I can't do like Microsoft word.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I feel your pain, trust me. I'm like, oh, girls,
somebody help me here. Yeah, I'm remote. I don't know
how to work it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And with social media, like I don't know how I'm
I'm just I say, I'm a grandma with this stuff,
and I just feel like, all right, it's just I
just missed out on it. Like my kids are very
savvy with that stuff. They're not big on social media.
They don't do it neither. My kids they're like readers
and they're I mean, I'm glad that they're not caught
up in what seems to be something that's really really
(24:46):
addicting and challenging to deal with.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well, we're doing it. We are doing it. We are
officially growing up, even though we don't know, we don't
have our tech skills right now in this you know,
magical phase of our lives. Are fifth And did you
have any like trepidation when you were turning fifty when
you're forty nine, you're like, oh, my god, what's going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I mean, so it's been five years because I'm fifty five. Yeah,
it was weird because Okay, so I lost Christian, my partner,
my second husband, when I was forty eight, so you know,
I was like a late bloomer in every way. Like
I was married from twenty five to thirty five with
my first husband, the father and my kids. And I
remarried to Christian when I was forty two, and then
(25:29):
at forty eight he passed. And so coming up on fifty,
it was such a huge milestone and I was dealing
with this loss and so much of it was wrapped
up in trying to like heal from that, trying to
like get the lesson. And you know, so I did
celebrate turning fifty, and I you know, but I think
it was it was bittersweet, you know, because he wasn't
(25:50):
there for me. But yeah, and I did like a list.
I mean, something I did and it's not PC, but
I did it as an exercise, in like a therapeutic exercise,
which I've I've told people about it and they now
do it for themselves. So when I was turning fifty,
I did this list of all the things that I'd
gone through, achieved, overcome from the time I turned forty
to the time I turned fifty. And it is quite
(26:13):
the list, Like it's it runs the gamut, Like it
runs from like, oh, I stopped speaking to my mother
to I won my first emmy. I got to go
on the Oprah Show and profess my love to Christian I.
You know, it's like a list that's you know, it's
a lot and and so that's so turning fifty for me,
it was really like relishing all that I have lived
(26:37):
through and I've I've lived such a life like I
wouldn't trade places with anyone else all for all of it,
Like even losing my partner. You know, I got so
much out of that relationship, and I, you know, have
this very very like strong knowing that he is with
me every step of the way. I believe he brought
my new husband to me, like you know, and I
got into plant medicine. I got it. Like there's so
(26:58):
many things I've done since you know, turning forty and
since losing him. Like it's like I said before, I
feel like I'm the best me I I've ever been
because I think I'm having like, I'm way more open
in my fifties than I was in my twenties.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Me too, Me too, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Like I mean I was yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean
there's so many things that I was so close minded
about and very judgmental about and just fear filled. And
I think I'm less fear.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Filled, definitely. Yeah. I always say I'm less reactive now.
I'm still impulsive, I'm still yeah quality, I'm an aries okay.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
My son's and ares. I'm a virgo yeah and uh yeah,
I don't even know what it means, but I'm.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Just on either.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I am who I am like like it's like there's
no changing who I am. I like who I am
right now. That's the key, right there. You love who
you are.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
It's the key to happiness, It's the key to freedom.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah. But I kind of have always loved myself, like
I kind of have. I mean, I'm away, he's like,
I'm a work in progress and I'm you know, have
a lot to learn. But I've always been a pretty
good person. I'm a really good friend. I think I'm
a really good mom, I'm a really good wife. I'm
(28:13):
not a great actress. I'll admit that, Like I've been good.
I've been really good, but I've also been really not good.
And I'm better. I think it playing being me, you know,
being authentically myself than I am with taking on characters.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, that's a good thing to know about yourself. I
love that you also are embracing your beautiful hair.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, well right now, I meant to put a hat on,
but because my headphones are too big and the hat
just helps it stay, and I forgot, But I forgotten.
I kind of just blew it out really fast. But
the fact that I have hair is a freaking miracle
because five years ago I shaved my head. You probably
are aware of this, but I shaved my head and
went public about my issue that I was having, which
(28:58):
was with hair loss. Like it's called andrew genetic alopecia,
my type of hair loss, and which is basically like
getting older and women loser hair. You know, It's like
there's no big you know, like I mean, it's just
very normal for women to go through that. But for me,
I was wearing extensions for a really long time and
that was damaging my hair and the color I was
putting on my hair. Every three weeks. I was having
(29:19):
dye my hair and all of it just didn't agree
with me, and I finally just surrendered. And that was
again a very traumatic experience for me. I'm someone who's
an open book. Everyone's known me, they grew up with me,
they know me for my show. I'm very honest and
open about everything in my life, and in this case,
I didn't. I was so ashamed that I was dealing
(29:40):
with this, and I had it as like sort of
this deep, dark secret, something I didn't even talk about
with my therapist. And so when I finally kind of
came out and and just basically let go of like
I'm going to just rock a bald head for the
rest of my life. And you know, you don't know
what you look like bald until you do it. All, Yeah,
you don't know how to you like it. I looked
(30:01):
so good. I looked so good. I was amazed that
I have actually a good like shaped head, have a
very small head. I like to think my brain isn't small,
but my head is small. And so I was relieved.
But that's not even the point. The point is like
I just like let go of it, like just bothering me,
you know, in secret, And that was the release and
(30:24):
lo and behold. You know, I used a product that
that helped me, and I also I think stopped stressing
about it, stopped putting extensions. Anyway, I don't know how
I got onto that, but yeah, my gray hair, I'm
very grateful for every strand thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I want to go white someday, like any way, or
do you have gray hair? Yeah? I have white hair.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
You do, I think it's white? And so you have
to do color your hair every three weeks? Is that you're.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, I'm going today? Actually you are?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, well lucky for your blonde, right, I assume you
are a natural blonde. You don't have brown hair? Yeah, no, No,
it's and I think with the pandemic, the timing of it,
like the genius that with my the way it unfolded
for me because I did this very deliberately at the
end of twenty nineteen, Like on New Year's Eve Day,
I had my friend documented, my friend Amanda Demi, who's
(31:15):
a brilliant photographer. I wanted it documented because I knew
I had to be public about it. Like I didn't
do it as like a I did it to be
set free. But I felt like if I just shaved
my head and came out with a shaved head. People
would have thought, you know, that I had cancer god forbid,
or that I was crazy, you know, like I just
needed to tell my story, and so I was very
deliberate about that. But it was right before the pandemic,
(31:37):
and once the pandemic had happened, nobody could color their hair. Nobody.
So for me, like I just it would have been
I would have been shaving my head, but it would
have been under a different set of circumstances for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I recently read one of my journal entries when I
turned fifty, and I talked openly about how I felt
about eight and the double standard with women and men
versus men getting older, and I just I love that
you don't give an f you just are who you are.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, And I love being this age. I mean I
love it. It's like I have so much more just
wisdom and peace. I mean, it's also my circumstances. So
I recognize, like I'm privileged, I have money, and I
you know, like I get it, but I've also like
been through a lot and coming out the other side,
(32:33):
like there's just an appreciation and a it's just yeah,
my husband and I both are in this phase of
just like stopping and smelling the roses and appreciating the
little things and the quiet and the calm. And yeah,
because I recognize the world is crazy and there's so
much that we can't control, which can make me crazy.
(32:55):
It could literally, you know, like if I watch the
news too much, it makes me spin. But my little bubble,
my little bubble with my dog and my beautiful husband
in our beautiful house and overlooking the ocean, it's just like,
pinch me, please.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I mean I think that that. I feel like I'm
almost there. You know. I'm a nineteen year old, but
my twenty one year old moved back in which I love.
But my husband is really ready for that chapter. He
doesn't have children of his own, so he's ready to
have me all to himself, which he hasn't had yet.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
How do you feel about that? Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Part of me's ready? Yeah? Because I love just hanging
out and being just you know, going with the flow
and just being chill. And we love doing that together.
And it's really hard to do that when you have
kids coming and going and doing what kids do. And
so I'm like half and half on that one.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I just didn't. That just wasn't part of my thing.
I couldn't wait. And so we have actually like a
rule in our well, not a rule, but I like
an agreement that we our kids are never moving back
and they can visit. They can visit. We're in the
process of building a little guest house so that we
have a proper space for people to visit and my
kids who live my both my kids live in New
(34:09):
York together, So I definitely want them to visit. I
just don't want like the moving back in, Like it
just it just doesn't work for us, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I love that you have that boundary, though, like,
oh yeah, I feel like I don't know if I
could ever say that to my daughters, Like really I
kind of want to.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I like if I even had that conversation. There's just
an understanding. We don't need to spell it out, but
there's like like they're they're launching, they're starting their own lives.
My yeah, I want one son's in graduate school, the
other ones in art school. They're thriving, they're happy. I
don't hear from them that often. I don't know, how
about you, you talking to your daughters, maybe once or
twice a week, Like lately, my older son Milo, he
(34:49):
calls me just to fill me in on what's going on,
and it's like such a joy I could cry because
normally when they call me, it's they need something, there's
something's wrong, you know, And lately it's been so nice
that I get a phone call and like, what do
you need? Nothing, I just wanted to fill you. I'm like, oh,
oh my god, this time has come feeling. It's amazing. Yeah,
(35:13):
it's really Yeah, I'm really it's like that thing that
like I'm really proud of who they are and that
they're happy. Like that's like they're they're super happy. I've
done my job, I think. I mean, there's always going
to be blips in the road, but yeah, right now
today I can truly celebrate that, like they're doing really well.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, and now your next job is just you, you in
your life, you being happy, you choosing you. It's the best.
I'm really good at that job. Yeah, it's working.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
You and i've both been married before, and we've both
had to go through divorces in the you know spotlight.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yes I have. I think what you've been married three times,
I've been married three times and I say this is
my third and last and favorite marriage. No, that's good,
and I was very much in love with my first
I was absolutely When I got married at twenty five,
I thought it was forever. When I got married at
forty two, I thought it was forever. But think, I
(36:10):
think the piece that was missing if I can break
it down. And it's obviously way more complex than this,
but just to simplify, I don't think I had the
self love then and the knowing of who I was
that I do now. Does that make sense.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
One hundred percent? Yeah? I mean my husband and I
joke about it sometimes because I will get insecure or
feel a certain type of way and say, like, you know,
this is old me. I don't do this anymore. Like
he had the best years of my life, and I'd
feel so bad that now I'm older because I'm nine
years older than Dave, and I.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Feel for you.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I feel like he got the short end of the stick,
almost like he You know, it could be perceived as such,
but honestly, the truth is he's getting the best version
of me that better, way better than any of the
other two had because I've learned so much about myself
and what I've worked so hard to learn more about
myself so that I could be in a healthy relationship
(37:07):
with somebody else, because I do love to be partnered,
and I just was like struggling and not being able to,
you know, have success in that area. And so now
I'm like, you, you may not have gotten all the
glitz and the glamour of you know, that sudden fame
and all the money. You know. I joke, and I'm like,
I gave my first husband a Harley antique T bird,
(37:30):
you know, a Corvette on this you know, all the
things that the other husband's got. And he's like, yeah, wow, okay,
now I'm much more sensible and less impulsive about like
financial decisions.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Right. I was dating this guy after my first marriage ended.
I was dating this guy for a number of years,
and he was sort of he should have been a rebound,
like it should have been a few months. He was
like a hot trainer. But it turned into three and
a half years and he, you know, he was he
was really in love with me, I'd say, and he
wanted to go to the next step and I wasn't
going to do that. And I remember I bought him
(38:01):
a car, Like I gave him money to buy a car,
and because I wanted to show my level of commitment
to him, but I didn't want to commit like like further,
like letting him move in or anything. So I did.
I mean, yeah, and that's like ridiculous. Why like like
the fact that I did. I can look back and
I'm like, oh my god, recky, you know, and the
fact that he took it, the fact that he took it,
but anyway, anyway.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And he drove it right on out.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, well, I actually what I did is I gave
him the money. I didn't even I gave him the
money to buy the car of his choosing, basically a
certain amount of money. I think it was like forty grand.
I think it was forty grand. And of course I
can remember that. And this is like in two thousand
and five or two thousand and six, and yeah, so
I gave him like and I was like, look, you
can get whatever you want, but like you'd be an
idiot to spend more than the forty grand, you know.
(38:46):
And I don't even remember what he got, but that
was like an example of me just like that's like
it's like whatever, I don't look back on that as
like a fond memory.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
This is true. This is true.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
He probably doesn't either, maybe.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Hoefully he's not listening. You've been really open about your
previous husband, Christian, who you talked about briefly here and
there in this conversation, how he suffered from mental disease bipolar.
I think, yes, he was bipolar. How did did you
know about his mental struggles before you married him?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I did, I did when we got together. And our
story is so crazy. We met through a house fire,
like I accidentally started a house fire in the house
I was living in. The house burned down, and that's
what kind of brought us together. And it was one
of those like it never should have happened. It's it's inexplicable,
Like I can't cut wrap my head around why that happened,
other than it was divine intervention. And I was supposed
(39:40):
to get together with Christian, and we got together very quickly,
and he told me, oh, I've been diagnosed by polar
and me, I didn't google it. I just said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm a control freak. We all have our things like
like like that's because I didn't know what bipolar meant.
I just I was that's always okay. It's like some
sort of condition that you just kind of deal with,
like I ADHD, you know, and so I never saw
(40:03):
so he always was low lying depression, like the depressed.
And he was suicidal actually when I met him, So
like us getting together and him being a man of
his word, when he committed to me, he changed his course.
He was planning to take his life at that time.
So he was someone that struggled with chronic pain. He
was someone who he had learning issues. He was brilliant
(40:23):
and special and amazing, and he also had these incredible challenges.
And so I knew when I married him that I
was going to be taking care of him for the
rest of his life. I was going to be his caretaker,
you know. And I very much was his caretaker. I
you know, he couldn't hold a job and all those things,
but you know, we were very much in love. And
I believe when he did decide to he couldn't take
(40:44):
it anymore in this body, in this in this three
D body meat suit, he chose to check out. But
I believe he like I took care of him when
he was here, and he is taking care of me
right now. Wherever he is. And you know, bipolar is
something that I mean, bipolar people are the most extraordinarily
(41:04):
special and charismatic and challenged. You know, it's like they're
both and and he see living through the psychotic episodes
that I lived through with him and the mania. You know,
I mostly dealt with him being like under, you know,
being under like always like hard to get out of bed,
hard to motivate, you know, just like just like you know,
(41:25):
he couldn't kind of like rise to like you know,
a baseline that was like functioning, you know, and but
then when the mania trips in, then you oh my god,
he's like on fire. He's got all these ideas and
he's getting up in the morning with me and he's
oil pulling and he's going on a run. And I
mean it was just like seeing him like at his
best self. But then, you know, when you're not medicated
(41:47):
and when you're not being treated in some way, you
just keep going up and up and up to where
they think he thought he was. He was God, and
he thought he could cure cancer with his hands, and
he didn't need his range Rover, so he left it
on the side of the road because he could time
travel and he could. I mean, it was like that
kind of crazy that was really really so traumatizing. Isn't
(42:09):
a strong enough word for what I kind of experience
for me of seeing him change on a dime and
not being able to save him. Like that's the other thing.
It's like, I'm this manifesto, I've been able to really
like take care of things, you know, I'm someone that
like I can fix stuff, I can pay for stuff,
I can find the best person. And in this case
my beloved suffering partner, I could not save him, and
(42:31):
that was really hard to come to terms with, you know.
But I am not God. And he was here for
as long as he was supposed to be here, and
he was my greatest teacher, like a great love, like
I would have said, my greatest love. And I would
never have been lucky enough to find love again. But
(42:53):
I do feel like he was the step before for
me to get to where I am now with this
relationship with my new husband, Ross, who is the pinnacle
of partners and and I think the work I did
through getting healing from the loss of Christian made me
be in a place where I could recognize the quality
(43:14):
of human that I am attracting now, you know, because
I would attract I mean the people that I was
going to say got inside of me. But like you know,
I mean, I definitely am. It was less discerning than
than I am now. And now I'm with I'm just
with the most beautiful person for me, and yeah, it's
it's the best. It's honestly the best.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Do you remember when you had that I Choose me
moment where you were like, I'm going to let love
happen for me again, because I know you were which time,
I mean, this last thing feeling from that massive loss
and all that went with that, and then you met
Ross and you came to was it an impulsive to
say when you met Ross too? Or was that something
(44:02):
that you had to like choose to go down that
road again?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
You know, I was dating someone else, So I was dating.
So here's okay, Okay, I was turning a wild woman.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I know I was openly dating. So just you know,
I don't cheat. I've never cheated, and as far as
I know, I have never been cheated on in my life.
I have never dealt with infidelity as far as I know.
So I'm dealing with the hair stuff. I'm wearing these extensions.
I'm keeping like the whole thing is secret because I'm
so ashamed by it. And I'm turning fifty. Okay, I've
lost my partner. I've lost what I think is going
(44:35):
to be the last great love of my life. How
do I Who's going to want me in my fifties?
You know? And then I shaved my head and I'm
dating this guy and it's not I was holding on
for dear life with this guy even though he was
the wrong guy. And from the beginning he told me
like he told me he doesn't want partnership. He wanted
to be free, a free spirit, a Peter Pan. He
(44:57):
wanted that, you know. So it's like, I what do
I do when I want something, I'm gonna I'm going
to like push that square bag in that round hole,
no matter what. And so I was distracted in this
relationship that was not making me happy. And Ross comes
into the picture. I was introduced to him by a
mutual friend. I you know, I went out with him
because I was in an open you know. The guy
wanted an open thing. So I'm like, all right, whatever, wait.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, yeah, you are
in an open relationship.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yes, but for me, I was thinking, oh, I'm so
open minded, I'm a free spirit. Okay, yeah, But turns
out it brought out the worst in me. I was
so jealous. I was so insecure. I'm not insecure. I
told you, I love myself. I love every square inch
of myself. And I was becoming this person that I
did not recognize. And it was really Again, it was
another learning experience for me because I find out that
(45:45):
I'm actually a serial monogamist, like I actually, you know, yeah,
I'm not as open as I thought I was. So
I was with that guy this beginning of the pandemic.
The guy was perfectly nice guy. He just wasn't the guy.
But I'm thinking he's the guy because there's no other guy.
And I've got the gray. My hair was shaved, so
I had like half inch of gray hair. I thought
(46:06):
I look great, but I was. You know, I'm definitely
not everyone's type. And I get introduced to Ross and
what drew me to him is that he grew up Mormon.
He grew up Mormon. Then this is before the Real
Housewives of Salt Lake City. Okay, but I'm like fascinated
I'm an next talk show host. I love like humanity
and and so I was curious. I went out with
(46:28):
him literally to talk his ear off about Mormonism and
just to hear all the crazy stuff that goes on
behind the scenes. He and he's also six foot six, Okay,
he's a giant. I am five ' three. On a
good day, I was wearing a moomoo. I was wearing
a giant moumou. He said I looked like I was
four hundred pounds. He said it was false advertising. But yeah,
(46:48):
we went out and it was not a love connection
like the first date was not. It was like one
of those awkward COVID like hugs. You know you want
to hug, but like you don't want to die from it,
and so it was just like bye, see you again,
you know never, and we we. I reached out to
him like three weeks after that, when I was medicating
self medicating at home on a couple of cocktails and
(47:09):
another thing that we won't mention, but basically I was
like hi, and I wrote him, you know, I'd broken
up with the other guy again. We've gotten back together,
broke up again, And I wrote Ross. I was like,
are we ever going to hang out again? He's like sure,
and I was like, come over. And he was a
five minute walk from my house where I was living.
I was living in the Marina. Five minute walk. He
walks over and is like sandals and his red solo,
(47:30):
spicy marg and a cup and yeah, I mean, truth
be told. I did tell him. I warned him that
I'm gonna I'm going to I can't believe I'm want
to say this. I warned him that I'm going to
be the best lover he's ever had.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh, I love it, You're confident.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
And then yeah, and then I passed out and then
he you know. So basically that was our meet cute story,
and then we became each other. Well, he became my
booty call for a number of months while I was
still seeing the other guy. I was very open. I
told raw, look, I'm a little bit bit of a
head case, blah blah blah. But then I literally saw
the light. I don't know if you follow like like
the moon and astrology in the moon and like, so
(48:09):
there was a super blue moon on Halloween of twenty twenty.
I don't know if that rings a bell to you,
but it was just a big thing, and my friends
were telling me, oh, this is a portal you know,
knowing and have an intention. Da da dah. And so
that was the night. We've been dating for like three
months casually, and that was the night on Halloween night
where I literally it was like a rom com where
(48:31):
I looked and did a double take in my house.
He came over and i'd cause I wrote him I
was supposed to a party and I canceled, and then
I wrote to him and I was like, hey, come over,
and this time he put his foot down and he's like, Okay,
I'll come over, but I'm staying over this time. You're
gonna have to deal with me in the morning, because
every other time he'd left, you know, when we finished.
And so we that night he came over and he
(48:52):
sat on my couch. I remember looking at him and
doing a double take, and I was like, Oh, it's you.
It's always been you are the one. And that was it,
Like it's like the light bulb went on over my head.
And then he was he'd been waiting and he doesn't
like to admit that, but he was. He was in
love with me and waiting for me to come around
and we've been together ever since. That was Halloween of
(49:14):
twenty twenty and we got married in January twenty twenty two.
And we are the happiest people in our fifties that
I think you'll ever meet. It's like when it's right,
it's right. We've never had an argument, we've never had
a crossword, we've never gotten sick of each other, and
we spend all of our time together when we're not working.
It's which is a lot.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Oh my god. I love this conversation so much.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
It's so good. We're going to continue this conver We
are going to continue it, but on your podcast Yay.
Before we go, I want to ask you, Ricky Lake,
what was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (49:51):
This morning, I choose to take really good care of
my body and my mind. And so I go on
a hike every single morning. As I said, I live
in Malibu, and I go out o my door and
I do a three mile hike with my dog, most
of the time with my husband. This morning, he didn't
join me, and then I forced myself to go to
my Lagrie pilates class. I do that three to four
times a week, and so it's you know, it's like,
would I rather stay in bed sometimes? But no, this
(50:14):
is done so much for my body and my mind
and my spirit, and so that is what I did.
That was absolutely a choose me moment.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Love it. Hey, I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, I can't wait. Be there, be square.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
This conversation with Ricky has been too good. We are
going to continue part two over on her podcast, The
High Life. We'll link to the episode in our show notes,
so be sure to check the rest of this conversation
out as we continue to choose ourselves each week. I
want you to do something fun for yourself this week
(50:51):
that will be a mood booster whenever you need it.
I want you to make a playlist of all your
favorite upbeat songs, music you want to sing and roll
down the windows. Two songs that make you want to
dance in the kitchen while you're cooking. No sad emo
songs on this playlist. Okay, music can be so therapeutic.
I want you to make your own I Choose Me playlist.
(51:13):
You will find the song in a Mood by Ice
Spice online. It always puts me in a good mood.
I don't know there's just something about it. Thanks for
listening to I Choose Me. You can check out all
the social links in our show notes and the link
to part two of this incredible conversation with Ricky Lake.
So rate and review the podcast and use the hashtag
(51:35):
I Choose Me. I hope you'll be here with me
next week. I love you, guys,
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. My
guest today is known for being an actress in cult
classic movies like Hairspray and cry Baby. She was a
(00:23):
successful talk show host for many years, and now she's
creating documentary films about things she is passionate about, from
natural birth to marijuana to birth control. She's the host
of her own podcast, The High Life. This is part
one of our conversation. Please welcome the incomparable Ricky Lake
to the Eyes Choose Me podcast. We've never met, Well,
(00:45):
we've met, but like little brief encounters.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
It doesn't really count.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
But yes, and I feel like I know you same same, Okay,
good good. I love to hear about where people come
from and why they are the way they are, So
if I could, I would love to just explore your
childhood a little bit, because our childhoods have such a
huge impact on who we are and like the rest
(01:11):
of our lives. So can you take me back to
your beginnings a little bit? Like what kind of a
household did you grow up in?
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Yeah? So I am from Westchester County, New York. Officially,
I was raised in Hastings on Hudson, which is like
twenty five minutes outside of the city. And I was
a pretty normal kid. I had a lot of personality,
and I had two parents that you know, stayed married
until for forty three years. So my childhood I was
(01:38):
in a you know, a home that had its own
dysfunction for sure. It's just my sister and me were
fourteen months apart. I'm the older sibling. I love to perform.
I you know, I'm a little bit older than you.
I'm fifty five, soon to be fifty six. And I
grew up, you know, watching Little House on the Prairie,
and in fact, I changed my name to Laura Ingalls
when I was in like kindergartener first grade. Like, I
(02:00):
was obsessed with Melissa Gilbert and which you know, your
costar Shannon Daugherty had one of her starts on that show.
But I was like, I saw too oh, and I
saw Annie. When I was six years old, I went
to the saw the original Broadway cast and my grandma Sylvia,
who you asked, you know, how am I the way
I am? Or how did I become who I am.
(02:20):
So much of it was having my grandma Sylvia as
my role model, as the matriarch of our family. She
died when I was nine, but she was the one
that growing up just out of New York, I went
and saw Broadway, I went to see opera, I went
to see the ballet and so all of that culture.
You know. I remember seeing Annie and I point and
I was like, I want to be her. I yeah,
did you ever do Annie?
Speaker 1 (02:42):
No?
Speaker 2 (02:43):
Were you a singer? Did you sing? No? Okay, I was.
I wanted to be a singer, and I just like
I just saw that and I was like, that's what
I want to be. And my mother she did the
best she could, but he her, she rejected me and
the idea of that before anyone else had the chance to.
She told me that I wasn't the starving orphan type
(03:03):
and basically encouraged me never to pursue that. So she
didn't cast you. She didn't carry me the audition. She
didn't and you know, and I understand why now, but
at the time it was, you know, it was the
ultimate like slap in the face. And I, you know,
studied singing. I studied dancing. I went through high school
and got really lucky at eighteen to have hear about
the audition for a character Tracy Turnblad in the first Hairspray,
(03:26):
and so it literally changed my entire trajectory. I'd never
been around openly gay people. I was very sort of
sheltered and green and naive and young. So yeah, to
say that, like, my world just completely exploded after that
and moved my I got to move to la at nineteen,
I visited you on that not you, but on the
(03:48):
set of Beverly Hills nine on two one O, because
the guy who played my boyfriend, Link Lark and Michael
Saint Gerard he was on he had an arc on
nine on two and oh, and I came and watched
you guys work and was totally star struck.
Speaker 1 (04:00):
Oh my god. I wish I had known that that
was happening.
Speaker 2 (04:04):
I could have said a lot. Yeah, it's like one
of those you know, you have these these memories. I
don't have a lot of memories because I'm old now
and I took a lot of ambience back in the day.
But I do remember that set, and I met Ali Adler,
who was a writer on your show. At that time,
and just it was a classroom scene and I just like,
I just I felt really young. I was probably nineteen
(04:26):
years old, and I just was like so starstruck and
it just yeah, it was a really really fun experience.
See you guys work.
Speaker 1 (04:33):
That's a good story. Thank God for your grandma, by
the way, Yeah, because otherwise your talents may have never
come to the surface. And you, you know, like you
have such a gift. Who knows if it would have happened.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
Yeah. What she gave me was like a belief in
myself that you can do anything. I mean, she told me,
she's like, you are the best, You're the smartest, you're
the prettiest, you're the most talented. And you know, clearly
I wasn't, but but I believed it in her eyes
and so that just like just yeah, it was just
that memory, that muscle memory of like she thinks I
(05:09):
can do this. And that's been really like like a
through line of my entire career because who thought I
could be a talk show host? I was twenty three
when they offered me that job. I mean, I just
I was like, Okay, they think I could do it?
Say all right, I'm going to do it?
Speaker 1 (05:22):
Where did that come from? Like, wait, I'm skipping ahead,
but I really didn't know.
Speaker 2 (05:25):
Well, I come from my friends that have known me
for a very long time that I don't have a
doubt gene, Like I don't doubt myself. And that's kind
of true where I just like sort of jump feet first.
I'm very impulsive. I'm extremely impulsive. I act many times
before I have a chance to really think things through.
But if you look at my life and the choices
(05:46):
I've made, it's mostly worked out. Like my instincts are
usually right. And yeah, I love that about myself. Like
I'm just one of those people like I get an idea,
I get a bug up my ass, and I just
go for it, and I yeah, it's worked out pretty well.
Speaker 1 (06:02):
Similar, I too, am impulsive, and I have made choices
very quickly in my life and somehow they've worked out.
Even if they didn't work out, they worked out.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
Give me an example. What's an example that comes to mind? Um?
Speaker 1 (06:14):
Okay, well, having a baby when I was twenty one,
twenty two, twenty three in that era that was impulsive
and crazy because I was so young.
Speaker 2 (06:25):
Yeah, I was twenty eight when I had my first
so it's still very young, considering like all my friends,
they're having kids much. I have my friend, my friend
Rachel Harris is my age, and she has a five
year old and seven year old. Oh okay, and I
have a twenty seven year old and a twenty three
year old. I can't even imagine trading places like Freaky
Fridaying with her. That would be crazy. But yeah, I
(06:47):
had my kids pretty young. But yeah, I mean so yeah,
so twenty one. Got so how old are your kids?
Speaker 1 (06:53):
Twenty seven, twenty one and eighteen?
Speaker 2 (06:56):
So the twenty seven when you were pregnant when I
was your daughter? I think you have three girls. I
have two boys. Your oldest daughter was born in ninety seven.
Mine too. How is she doing? She's launched, She's awesome.
Is she the one you have the clothing line with? No?
Speaker 1 (07:13):
She? This is the one that lives in New York
and doing her thing.
Speaker 2 (07:16):
Yeah? Mine, loving heart waiting.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
For her to come back.
Speaker 2 (07:19):
You are see. I'm I'm okay. If they never come back,
I mean they want them to visit. I love them visiting.
I'm so glad they have their own lives. I'm an
empty nester. I was one of those parents. That when
I dropped my son off at school. And I love
my children and I love that I'm a mom and
it's my favorite role of my life as being their mom.
But when I dropped him off at college, I peeled
(07:42):
out of that driveway. I couldn't get out of there
fast enough and like, Okay, one down, one to go.
You know you're honesty, It's true, and you know your
whole thing is about choosing you. Yeah, I feel like
this time in my life is like all about like
I she was myself and choosing this relationship with my
(08:02):
new husband. I am playing more than I've played in
a really long time. It just feels like my fifties
is like the brightest time of my life is right now.
It's like reaping the fruits of my labor. Like I've
worked really hard, I've done the right thing for so long.
I've made the sacrifices for everyone around me. I've shown
(08:23):
up for work, I've delivered, and now I kind of
I don't want to say I'm coasting, but I'm certainly
coasting way more than I ever have from the rest
of my life.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
For sure, it feels good. I can feel it through
this TV screen. I'm so happy for you being happy.
It's good. Oh we have so many parallels. There's so
so many. We both got started in the industry when
we're pretty young. How old are you about the same
age as you. I was like sixteen seventeen, had very
you know, great childhood idyllic. I feel like I can
(08:55):
really relate to you, and I want to know when
you were growing up in the public I of celebrityism.
What did you think of all of it? How did
it feel to you?
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Well, so I was eighteen, So if you were sixteen,
you were a minor. I was not a miner when
I got hairspray. I was. I was just a freshman
in college and I you know, so I was an
adult quote unquote. But it's definitely not like mature in
any way. And I didn't know anything different, Like it's
just it was just my experience. And also like my
start was with John Waters and this very specific type
of experience. So it was very felt like camp more
(09:30):
than it felt like a job. You know. I was
working really hard, but it was super fun and playful
and I got famous. Like I So, I've told this
story before, but I'll share with you. John Waters sat
me down after we finished making Hairspray. So you know, again,
I'm eighteen. We just had this summer of my life
the movie. You know, you wrap the movie, but then
it takes months for it to come out. And he
(09:50):
sat me down after the making of the film and
he said, I want to give you some advice. He's like,
I have three I want you to remember these three things.
Always stay humble. Always stay true to yourself. If you're
going to read and believe the good things people write
about you, you're going to have to read and believe
the bad. Basically, keep it all in check, keep it
all in perspective. And I feel like that advice, that
talking to and the mentoring he's given me over the
(10:12):
years has managed to help me stay really pretty grounded
and very normal, you know. And so yes, it was
weird becoming famous and making a lot of money and
people knowing my name. I mean, I loved it. It's
what I wanted. It's what I dreamed of when I
saw Annie at six, you know, so like here I am,
like my dream has come true. And it was ultimately
(10:32):
like really positive, like there was nothing you know, it
was only when my career stopped, you know, when I
was about twenty two, twenty one, twenty two, and I
didn't get this big part that I wanted. I was
really devastated. It was a movie called dog Fight. It's
a movie that probably no one really remembers, but it
was with River Phoenix and Lily Taylor got the part.
(10:53):
But it was like something I really really wanted and
it didn't happen for me. And then I couldn't get arrested.
I was on China Beach and I didn't get picked
up my option, you know, the whole thing that things
happen in our business. And I went from like making
all this money to making nothing and had to give
up my house and I was homeless for a short time.
I had to move. I mean, it was but it
was the most humbling experience that I'm so grateful for.
(11:15):
You know. In the end, yes, I lost probably about
two or three hundred thousand dollars in that, you know,
that learning experience, but it taught me so much, you know,
about the value of a dollar, and thankfully I didn't
have a family to support at that time. You know,
It's just like changed everything. And then I got my
talk show. Then I went. Oh, I also went on
it like a crash crash crazy diet because I realized
(11:36):
that the reason, you know, one of the reasons I
wasn't getting parts anymore, I wasn't getting cast in anything,
is because the novelty of being the fat girl had
kind of worn off, and I felt like, Okay, the
only thing I can control in my life is my
physicality and how I take care of myself. So I
went on this crash diet. I lost one hundred pounds,
and then the talk show came my way and lifted
(11:57):
me out of my uh pover and it changed my
life for sure.
Speaker 1 (12:04):
Two things on that Okay, so I love those words
of a wisdom that he gave you, right, really good
for John Waters. Yeah, those are like fatherly mm hmm.
That was necessary guidance. But one of them is a
little hard for me. The part where you are supposed
to believe in yourself and love and read and believe
the things that people write about you, the good things,
(12:24):
but also the bad things. Now, with social media the
way it is and everybody having some sort of a
platform to say whatever they think good or bad, do
you still believe that reading bad things about yourself is
something you should let in.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
I mean, it's a totally different ballgame now, you know.
And for me, like I'm so glad I don't do
a talk show now you know that. I mean, I
do what I do, and I choose to do what
I'm doing, like I do my own podcast. I love it.
It's like you know, it's it's it's completely something I
want to do. But as far as being in a
situation where you're having to speak out and be whether
(12:58):
it's political or controversial or you know, you can't make
everyone happy and there's this instant reaction from stranger, I mean,
it's just a brutal thing that I don't really participate
much in. Like all my posting is very positive, it's
all about joy, it's all about you know, like very
much what you're about. Yeah, yeah, I really I think
it's like the devil in a lot of ways, Like
(13:21):
we have like made this deal and now with what's
coming up with AI, I mean, it is all terrifying.
But the difference is at fifty five, I know who
I am, I love who I am. I am, Like
i feel like I'm the best me I've ever been
and that comes from life experience that comes from, like,
you know, the things I've achieved, the things I've overcome.
(13:42):
I mean, I've had like a really beautiful journey, and
a lot of it's been really hard. I lost my partner,
my last partner, to mental illness and suicide, and that
was one of probably the hardest thing I've ever had
to I can't say I've overcome it, but to deal
with and learn to live with. But like, yeah, the
things people say about me, it doesn't really affect me
(14:03):
at this point. And I think that is like you
know that cliche when you turn fifty, you don't give
a shit what other people think about you. It's none
of your business what people think about you. And it's
kind of true for me, Like I definitely nothing really
gets to me. And I'm really also lucky that I
have a lot of good will in this industry. People
feel like they know who I am, they like me,
they root for me, and so there's really not a
(14:26):
lot of negative stuff that comes my way.
Speaker 1 (14:28):
Thanks right, right, Well, that's because you're just a positive
energy and positive attracting.
Speaker 2 (14:34):
Positive I think. So, I mean, I am really positive
and I have a lot to be grateful for.
Speaker 1 (14:40):
And you've had so much. I think also too, it's
about those hardships that we've endured and that we've lived
through and learned so much from that make us so
much more full of gratitude and hope and you know,
just a sense of like achievement that you survive something
so terrible. You know, you really start to turn to
your self in those moments instead of listening to other people.
(15:02):
I think that's really yeahful.
Speaker 2 (15:05):
I mean, I think all of the traumatic things that
I've had in my life, and I've had my share,
you know, we all have stuff we go through, but
I think all of it has in the end been
a gift, you know, like I've gotten something out of
all of the hardship, you know, from being sexually molested
as a small child to like just you know, living
(15:25):
through nine to eleven. You know, nine to eleven. I
was there on that day downtown, watched the whole thing
unfold before my very eyes, and I was a new mom.
I had a two month old at that time, So
that was you know, deeply, deeply like world life changing everything.
But like for me, it got me to kind of
make a decision on where I wanted to go with
my career where I wanted to raise my family. I
(15:46):
didn't want to be in New York anymore. I left
New York, I left my talk show, I left my marriage.
I mean, all of that happened after that experience watching
that unfold, and in the end it was a gift
for me. I started focusing on documentary film work, which
is it's like what I want my legacy to be
is like these these pieces of work that really question
why things are the way they are. In that case
(16:09):
with the birth world, you know, so I sort of
found my voice and I found my true passion through
living through something so traumatic.
Speaker 1 (16:23):
The other thing I wanted to circle back on that
you said was the novelty of being the fat girl
wore off. How do you think that shaped who you
are today? Having to really be fronted and faced with
your appearance being connected in a negative way by people.
How did that affect your sense of self and your
(16:45):
your security and yourself all these years.
Speaker 2 (16:48):
That's a lot to do, A really good question. I mean, ultimately,
it was incredible that I was one of the very
first I can't think of another ingen new girl that
was two hundred pounds, you know. So it was amazing
to like break the mold in that way and to
be so well received, And it was believable watching that movie.
Even today, it's believable that she wins the contest and
(17:10):
she gets the guy. She pause.
Speaker 1 (17:13):
I love that movie so much. I could watch it over.
We have watched it a million times in our house.
But you shaped us, Thank you.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
It was so fun and it was me like, I
am just like you are you are. There's a lot
of you that's Kelly, right, yes, right right, Well, at
least I want to think that, but I'm very much
I'm Tracy Turnblad trapped in a fifty five year old
gray haired woman. It just it just, I mean a difference.
Like I was two hundred pounds and adorable when I
did that movie, But I was two hundred and sixty
(17:42):
pounds when I did Cry Baby three years later, you know,
and two hundred and sixty pounds on a five foot
three inch frame. It was a lot, and and it
wasn't working anymore like I was, you know, would go
out on it. I just wasn't getting the parts, and
so I was in a desperate place where I was
supporting myself and I was running out of money and
I needed to do something that I could control. And
(18:03):
it really was like when I think back on it,
you know, it wasn't the healthiest way. I starved myself.
I basically didn't stop eating altogether, but I ate very,
very very little. I joined a gym and would ride
my bike in the valley. I live north of Victory
if you know where that is, like Woodman and Victory.
And at the time it was whatever nineteen was that
ninety two, ninety one ninety two in that area, and
(18:24):
I no one would viit. My friends wouldn't come visit me.
It was like a very much a Spanish speaking neighborhood.
I lived in a poolhouse my back My little house
was a like I had a sliding glass door. I mean,
it was a very humbling time for me, and it
was appropriate for someone who is my age, you know,
who was like went from riches rags to riches and
riches to rags, and then I think it was really
(18:45):
empowering and being able to change my body in the
way I did. It worked like I was, you know,
went from a size twenty four to a size twelve,
you know, in about like six or eight months, like
really really short period of time, and I did it
with the sole purpose of a getting a little bit
healthier and B getting a job. You know, I needed
to work. And so the pilot of the talk show
(19:08):
came around at that time, and it kind of I
think worked as the narrative or my story of like
this relatable girl, this young woman that people root for,
like Tracy Turnblad, you know, I'm like this underdog kind
of character. And so it wasn't calculated in getting a
talk like I never thought I was gonna get a
talk show. Who thinks a twenty something that you're going
(19:30):
to be picked to do something like that. But it
just was like this divine thing that just happened and
it just all worked. Oh did I answer your question?
Speaker 1 (19:39):
You did? I feel as if it made you believe
in yourself even more than you already did, and it
made you fight for what you knew was right for you.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:50):
I like that that.
Speaker 2 (19:51):
Yeah, yeah, I mean I I it's so it's so
I don't spend a lot of time like thinking back
of like like who I was back then, you know,
like why I did this or why I did that?
But yeah, the talk show was such like a comfortable
arena for me. I was so it was a natural thing.
Like in the beginning, I would just channel Oprah because
(20:12):
I was such an Oprah fan and Phil Donahue Bless
his soul, and Sally Jesse, Like I was a big
watcher of those shows. So when they gave me the
microphone and said go, you know, go do it yourself.
You know, I was like, all right, what would Oprah say?
I would channel her? Oh what would Opra say? But
then as I found my footing, It's like I just
I just was a really good listener, and I was
really interested and curious about people and relationships. It was fascinating,
(20:36):
and then it was fun and that it became like
the party that everyone wanted to come to every day
at our show. You know, it was like it was
really special, and I don't think I recognized it. Then
when I'm in it, I'm just in it, and I
was like, oh my god, I'm making this money and
people are like shouting my name, like this is so cool.
But it just felt so normal, like Okay, this is
(20:57):
the next chapter of my career. You know. It's now
looking back on, like what the hell was I thinking?
How presumptuous for me to assume I know what people
should do when they're you know, in relationships. It's like, yeah,
I didn't even know who I was at that time,
but it was it was fun well.
Speaker 1 (21:13):
Because we grew up in the way we did, like
in the public eye like that. It's it's as if
we have somehow been encapsulated in people's minds as that
younger version of ourselves, you know, like people will always
see us the way they first saw us. Is that
ever hard for you or do you embrace that?
Speaker 2 (21:30):
I think it's changed because I have been I've literally
like had all these different facets of my career, you know,
like people know me and it's really funny. John Waters
and I'll joke about it. We're in an airport and like,
you know, a certain type of personal code to me.
Oh they know me from this, like we can kind
of peg him, you know, gay man, he knows obviously
John Water stuff. But then the pregnant mom saw my
(21:52):
documentary about birth, you know, like it's just so funny.
So I think I've reinvented myself and I have changed
my physicality both in way and you know obviously with
my gray hair and I shave my head and my like,
I have a lot of different facets of me. See,
I look at you, and you look exactly the same
from nine and two, and oh you haven't changed at all.
Speaker 1 (22:11):
That's what I hear a lot, and I'm in my mind,
I'm like, what you talking about? I've changed so much?
Speaker 2 (22:18):
What are the years you were on the air with
nine of two and I was ten years and ninety
the entire decade, So nineteen ninety it launched. Yeah, so
you launched before I went on the air in ninety three.
So I went from ninety three to four, so basically
around the same time frame or basically the same age. Wow, yep, yeah,
that was Those were good times, weren't they.
Speaker 1 (22:38):
Oh? Yes, the best. The nineties were the best.
Speaker 2 (22:42):
Yeah. Down, I'm so glad. I talk about it with
my new husband a lot. Ross he's not my new
husband two and a half years we've been married, but
he and I are no similar in age. He's he's
he's incredible, but like we both are so and maybe
you feel the same way. I'm so glad I was
born when I was born, that I lived through our childhood,
we lived through without cell phones, without you know, those
(23:05):
distractions and you know, and our kids never knew what
it was like before that.
Speaker 1 (23:10):
So I don't know what's going to happen to the
kids these days, to the young And I have my
daughter the other day because she they have a new
brother that's two years old, and I asked her, I
was like, what do you think is going to be
like for Jack when he's your age? And what she say,
She's like, I don't know, because even you know, my
middle one is able to look at my younger ones
(23:31):
experience right now and think, I'm so glad I didn't
have to deal with that. Yeah, because they're like four
or five years apart. Things change so much. But I
guess we just adapt.
Speaker 2 (23:42):
I mean, yes, we will. I wonder what I mean.
I watched that Oprah special on AI last week. It
was so sobering. It was so it's so daunting. I'm
someone who's like, I don't even I was never taught
computer skills, really no, I was never like, I learned
to tie on a typewriter type. I'm really good at it.
(24:03):
I was so good at it. My sister and I were.
It's we're a year apart, but with that elective we
were in the same like doing it at the same time,
so we got very competitive. So I'm really good at typing,
but like I couldn't. I can't. I mean, it's embarrassing
to say, but I can't do like Microsoft word.
Speaker 1 (24:18):
I feel your pain, trust me. I'm like, oh, girls,
somebody help me here. Yeah, I'm remote. I don't know
how to work it.
Speaker 2 (24:25):
And with social media, like I don't know how I'm
I'm just I say, I'm a grandma with this stuff,
and I just feel like, all right, it's just I
just missed out on it. Like my kids are very
savvy with that stuff. They're not big on social media.
They don't do it neither. My kids they're like readers
and they're I mean, I'm glad that they're not caught
up in what seems to be something that's really really
(24:46):
addicting and challenging to deal with.
Speaker 1 (24:48):
Well, we're doing it. We are doing it. We are
officially growing up, even though we don't know, we don't
have our tech skills right now in this you know,
magical phase of our lives. Are fifth And did you
have any like trepidation when you were turning fifty when
you're forty nine, you're like, oh, my god, what's going
to happen?
Speaker 2 (25:08):
I mean, so it's been five years because I'm fifty five. Yeah,
it was weird because Okay, so I lost Christian, my partner,
my second husband, when I was forty eight, so you know,
I was like a late bloomer in every way. Like
I was married from twenty five to thirty five with
my first husband, the father and my kids. And I
remarried to Christian when I was forty two, and then
(25:29):
at forty eight he passed. And so coming up on fifty,
it was such a huge milestone and I was dealing
with this loss and so much of it was wrapped
up in trying to like heal from that, trying to
like get the lesson. And you know, so I did
celebrate turning fifty, and I you know, but I think
it was it was bittersweet, you know, because he wasn't
(25:50):
there for me. But yeah, and I did like a list.
I mean, something I did and it's not PC, but
I did it as an exercise, in like a therapeutic exercise,
which I've I've told people about it and they now
do it for themselves. So when I was turning fifty,
I did this list of all the things that I'd
gone through, achieved, overcome from the time I turned forty
to the time I turned fifty. And it is quite
(26:13):
the list, Like it's it runs the gamut, Like it
runs from like, oh, I stopped speaking to my mother
to I won my first emmy. I got to go
on the Oprah Show and profess my love to Christian I.
You know, it's like a list that's you know, it's
a lot and and so that's so turning fifty for me,
it was really like relishing all that I have lived
(26:37):
through and I've I've lived such a life like I
wouldn't trade places with anyone else all for all of it,
Like even losing my partner. You know, I got so
much out of that relationship, and I, you know, have
this very very like strong knowing that he is with
me every step of the way. I believe he brought
my new husband to me, like you know, and I
got into plant medicine. I got it. Like there's so
(26:58):
many things I've done since you know, turning forty and
since losing him. Like it's like I said before, I
feel like I'm the best me I I've ever been
because I think I'm having like, I'm way more open
in my fifties than I was in my twenties.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
Me too, Me too, Yeah.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
Like I mean I was yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean
there's so many things that I was so close minded
about and very judgmental about and just fear filled. And
I think I'm less fear.
Speaker 1 (27:24):
Filled, definitely. Yeah. I always say I'm less reactive now.
I'm still impulsive, I'm still yeah quality, I'm an aries okay.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
My son's and ares. I'm a virgo yeah and uh yeah,
I don't even know what it means, but I'm.
Speaker 1 (27:40):
Just on either.
Speaker 2 (27:41):
I am who I am like like it's like there's
no changing who I am. I like who I am
right now. That's the key, right there. You love who
you are.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
It's the key to happiness, It's the key to freedom.
Speaker 2 (27:51):
Yeah. But I kind of have always loved myself, like
I kind of have. I mean, I'm away, he's like,
I'm a work in progress and I'm you know, have
a lot to learn. But I've always been a pretty
good person. I'm a really good friend. I think I'm
a really good mom, I'm a really good wife. I'm
(28:13):
not a great actress. I'll admit that, Like I've been good.
I've been really good, but I've also been really not good.
And I'm better. I think it playing being me, you know,
being authentically myself than I am with taking on characters.
Speaker 1 (28:28):
Well, that's a good thing to know about yourself. I
love that you also are embracing your beautiful hair.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Yeah, well right now, I meant to put a hat on,
but because my headphones are too big and the hat
just helps it stay, and I forgot, But I forgotten.
I kind of just blew it out really fast. But
the fact that I have hair is a freaking miracle
because five years ago I shaved my head. You probably
are aware of this, but I shaved my head and
went public about my issue that I was having, which
(28:58):
was with hair loss. Like it's called andrew genetic alopecia,
my type of hair loss, and which is basically like
getting older and women loser hair. You know, It's like
there's no big you know, like I mean, it's just
very normal for women to go through that. But for me,
I was wearing extensions for a really long time and
that was damaging my hair and the color I was
putting on my hair. Every three weeks. I was having
(29:19):
dye my hair and all of it just didn't agree
with me, and I finally just surrendered. And that was
again a very traumatic experience for me. I'm someone who's
an open book. Everyone's known me, they grew up with me,
they know me for my show. I'm very honest and
open about everything in my life, and in this case,
I didn't. I was so ashamed that I was dealing
(29:40):
with this, and I had it as like sort of
this deep, dark secret, something I didn't even talk about
with my therapist. And so when I finally kind of
came out and and just basically let go of like
I'm going to just rock a bald head for the
rest of my life. And you know, you don't know
what you look like bald until you do it. All, Yeah,
you don't know how to you like it. I looked
(30:01):
so good. I looked so good. I was amazed that
I have actually a good like shaped head, have a
very small head. I like to think my brain isn't small,
but my head is small. And so I was relieved.
But that's not even the point. The point is like
I just like let go of it, like just bothering me,
you know, in secret, And that was the release and
(30:24):
lo and behold. You know, I used a product that
that helped me, and I also I think stopped stressing
about it, stopped putting extensions. Anyway, I don't know how
I got onto that, but yeah, my gray hair, I'm
very grateful for every strand thank you.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
I want to go white someday, like any way, or
do you have gray hair? Yeah? I have white hair.
Speaker 2 (30:45):
You do, I think it's white? And so you have
to do color your hair every three weeks? Is that you're.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, I'm going today? Actually you are?
Speaker 2 (30:53):
Yeah, well lucky for your blonde, right, I assume you
are a natural blonde. You don't have brown hair? Yeah, no, No,
it's and I think with the pandemic, the timing of it,
like the genius that with my the way it unfolded
for me because I did this very deliberately at the
end of twenty nineteen, Like on New Year's Eve Day,
I had my friend documented, my friend Amanda Demi, who's
(31:15):
a brilliant photographer. I wanted it documented because I knew
I had to be public about it. Like I didn't
do it as like a I did it to be
set free. But I felt like if I just shaved
my head and came out with a shaved head. People
would have thought, you know, that I had cancer god forbid,
or that I was crazy, you know, like I just
needed to tell my story, and so I was very
deliberate about that. But it was right before the pandemic,
(31:37):
and once the pandemic had happened, nobody could color their hair. Nobody.
So for me, like I just it would have been
I would have been shaving my head, but it would
have been under a different set of circumstances for sure.
Speaker 1 (31:55):
I recently read one of my journal entries when I
turned fifty, and I talked openly about how I felt
about eight and the double standard with women and men
versus men getting older, and I just I love that
you don't give an f you just are who you are.
Speaker 2 (32:11):
Yeah, And I love being this age. I mean I
love it. It's like I have so much more just
wisdom and peace. I mean, it's also my circumstances. So
I recognize, like I'm privileged, I have money, and I
you know, like I get it, but I've also like
been through a lot and coming out the other side,
(32:33):
like there's just an appreciation and a it's just yeah,
my husband and I both are in this phase of
just like stopping and smelling the roses and appreciating the
little things and the quiet and the calm. And yeah,
because I recognize the world is crazy and there's so
much that we can't control, which can make me crazy.
(32:55):
It could literally, you know, like if I watch the
news too much, it makes me spin. But my little bubble,
my little bubble with my dog and my beautiful husband
in our beautiful house and overlooking the ocean, it's just like,
pinch me, please.
Speaker 1 (33:10):
I mean I think that that. I feel like I'm
almost there. You know. I'm a nineteen year old, but
my twenty one year old moved back in which I love.
But my husband is really ready for that chapter. He
doesn't have children of his own, so he's ready to
have me all to himself, which he hasn't had yet.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
How do you feel about that? Are you ready?
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Part of me's ready? Yeah? Because I love just hanging
out and being just you know, going with the flow
and just being chill. And we love doing that together.
And it's really hard to do that when you have
kids coming and going and doing what kids do. And
so I'm like half and half on that one.
Speaker 2 (33:48):
Yeah, I just didn't. That just wasn't part of my thing.
I couldn't wait. And so we have actually like a
rule in our well, not a rule, but I like
an agreement that we our kids are never moving back
and they can visit. They can visit. We're in the
process of building a little guest house so that we
have a proper space for people to visit and my
kids who live my both my kids live in New
(34:09):
York together, So I definitely want them to visit. I
just don't want like the moving back in, Like it
just it just doesn't work for us, you know.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
Yeah, I love that you have that boundary, though, like,
oh yeah, I feel like I don't know if I
could ever say that to my daughters, Like really I
kind of want to.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
I like if I even had that conversation. There's just
an understanding. We don't need to spell it out, but
there's like like they're they're launching, they're starting their own lives.
My yeah, I want one son's in graduate school, the
other ones in art school. They're thriving, they're happy. I
don't hear from them that often. I don't know, how
about you, you talking to your daughters, maybe once or
twice a week, Like lately, my older son Milo, he
(34:49):
calls me just to fill me in on what's going on,
and it's like such a joy I could cry because
normally when they call me, it's they need something, there's
something's wrong, you know, And lately it's been so nice
that I get a phone call and like, what do
you need? Nothing, I just wanted to fill you. I'm like, oh,
oh my god, this time has come feeling. It's amazing. Yeah,
(35:13):
it's really Yeah, I'm really it's like that thing that
like I'm really proud of who they are and that
they're happy. Like that's like they're they're super happy. I've
done my job, I think. I mean, there's always going
to be blips in the road, but yeah, right now
today I can truly celebrate that, like they're doing really well.
Speaker 1 (35:33):
Yeah, and now your next job is just you, you in
your life, you being happy, you choosing you. It's the best.
I'm really good at that job. Yeah, it's working.
Speaker 2 (35:42):
Wait.
Speaker 1 (35:42):
You and i've both been married before, and we've both
had to go through divorces in the you know spotlight.
Speaker 2 (35:49):
Yes I have. I think what you've been married three times,
I've been married three times and I say this is
my third and last and favorite marriage. No, that's good,
and I was very much in love with my first
I was absolutely When I got married at twenty five,
I thought it was forever. When I got married at
forty two, I thought it was forever. But think, I
(36:10):
think the piece that was missing if I can break
it down. And it's obviously way more complex than this,
but just to simplify, I don't think I had the
self love then and the knowing of who I was
that I do now. Does that make sense.
Speaker 1 (36:23):
One hundred percent? Yeah? I mean my husband and I
joke about it sometimes because I will get insecure or
feel a certain type of way and say, like, you know,
this is old me. I don't do this anymore. Like
he had the best years of my life, and I'd
feel so bad that now I'm older because I'm nine
years older than Dave, and I.
Speaker 2 (36:43):
Feel for you.
Speaker 1 (36:45):
I feel like he got the short end of the stick,
almost like he You know, it could be perceived as such,
but honestly, the truth is he's getting the best version
of me that better, way better than any of the
other two had because I've learned so much about myself
and what I've worked so hard to learn more about
myself so that I could be in a healthy relationship
(37:07):
with somebody else, because I do love to be partnered,
and I just was like struggling and not being able to,
you know, have success in that area. And so now
I'm like, you, you may not have gotten all the
glitz and the glamour of you know, that sudden fame
and all the money. You know. I joke, and I'm like,
I gave my first husband a Harley antique T bird,
(37:30):
you know, a Corvette on this you know, all the
things that the other husband's got. And he's like, yeah, wow, okay,
now I'm much more sensible and less impulsive about like
financial decisions.
Speaker 2 (37:40):
Right. I was dating this guy after my first marriage ended.
I was dating this guy for a number of years,
and he was sort of he should have been a rebound,
like it should have been a few months. He was
like a hot trainer. But it turned into three and
a half years and he, you know, he was he
was really in love with me, I'd say, and he
wanted to go to the next step and I wasn't
going to do that. And I remember I bought him
(38:01):
a car, Like I gave him money to buy a car,
and because I wanted to show my level of commitment
to him, but I didn't want to commit like like further,
like letting him move in or anything. So I did.
I mean, yeah, and that's like ridiculous. Why like like
the fact that I did. I can look back and
I'm like, oh my god, recky, you know, and the
fact that he took it, the fact that he took it,
but anyway, anyway.
Speaker 1 (38:22):
And he drove it right on out.
Speaker 2 (38:24):
Yeah, well, I actually what I did is I gave
him the money. I didn't even I gave him the
money to buy the car of his choosing, basically a
certain amount of money. I think it was like forty grand.
I think it was forty grand. And of course I
can remember that. And this is like in two thousand
and five or two thousand and six, and yeah, so
I gave him like and I was like, look, you
can get whatever you want, but like you'd be an
idiot to spend more than the forty grand, you know.
(38:46):
And I don't even remember what he got, but that
was like an example of me just like that's like
it's like whatever, I don't look back on that as
like a fond memory.
Speaker 1 (38:56):
This is true. This is true.
Speaker 2 (38:57):
He probably doesn't either, maybe.
Speaker 1 (39:00):
Hoefully he's not listening. You've been really open about your
previous husband, Christian, who you talked about briefly here and
there in this conversation, how he suffered from mental disease bipolar.
I think, yes, he was bipolar. How did did you
know about his mental struggles before you married him?
Speaker 2 (39:19):
I did, I did when we got together. And our
story is so crazy. We met through a house fire,
like I accidentally started a house fire in the house
I was living in. The house burned down, and that's
what kind of brought us together. And it was one
of those like it never should have happened. It's it's inexplicable,
Like I can't cut wrap my head around why that happened,
other than it was divine intervention. And I was supposed
(39:40):
to get together with Christian, and we got together very quickly,
and he told me, oh, I've been diagnosed by polar
and me, I didn't google it. I just said, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm a control freak. We all have our things like
like like that's because I didn't know what bipolar meant.
I just I was that's always okay. It's like some
sort of condition that you just kind of deal with,
like I ADHD, you know, and so I never saw
(40:03):
so he always was low lying depression, like the depressed.
And he was suicidal actually when I met him, So
like us getting together and him being a man of
his word, when he committed to me, he changed his course.
He was planning to take his life at that time.
So he was someone that struggled with chronic pain. He
was someone who he had learning issues. He was brilliant
(40:23):
and special and amazing, and he also had these incredible challenges.
And so I knew when I married him that I
was going to be taking care of him for the
rest of his life. I was going to be his caretaker,
you know. And I very much was his caretaker. I
you know, he couldn't hold a job and all those things,
but you know, we were very much in love. And
I believe when he did decide to he couldn't take
(40:44):
it anymore in this body, in this in this three
D body meat suit, he chose to check out. But
I believe he like I took care of him when
he was here, and he is taking care of me
right now. Wherever he is. And you know, bipolar is
something that I mean, bipolar people are the most extraordinarily
(41:04):
special and charismatic and challenged. You know, it's like they're
both and and he see living through the psychotic episodes
that I lived through with him and the mania. You know,
I mostly dealt with him being like under, you know,
being under like always like hard to get out of bed,
hard to motivate, you know, just like just like you know,
(41:25):
he couldn't kind of like rise to like you know,
a baseline that was like functioning, you know, and but
then when the mania trips in, then you oh my god,
he's like on fire. He's got all these ideas and
he's getting up in the morning with me and he's
oil pulling and he's going on a run. And I
mean it was just like seeing him like at his
best self. But then, you know, when you're not medicated
(41:47):
and when you're not being treated in some way, you
just keep going up and up and up to where
they think he thought he was. He was God, and
he thought he could cure cancer with his hands, and
he didn't need his range Rover, so he left it
on the side of the road because he could time
travel and he could. I mean, it was like that
kind of crazy that was really really so traumatizing. Isn't
(42:09):
a strong enough word for what I kind of experience
for me of seeing him change on a dime and
not being able to save him. Like that's the other thing.
It's like, I'm this manifesto, I've been able to really
like take care of things, you know, I'm someone that
like I can fix stuff, I can pay for stuff,
I can find the best person. And in this case
my beloved suffering partner, I could not save him, and
(42:31):
that was really hard to come to terms with, you know.
But I am not God. And he was here for
as long as he was supposed to be here, and
he was my greatest teacher, like a great love, like
I would have said, my greatest love. And I would
never have been lucky enough to find love again. But
(42:53):
I do feel like he was the step before for
me to get to where I am now with this
relationship with my new husband, Ross, who is the pinnacle
of partners and and I think the work I did
through getting healing from the loss of Christian made me
be in a place where I could recognize the quality
(43:14):
of human that I am attracting now, you know, because
I would attract I mean the people that I was
going to say got inside of me. But like you know,
I mean, I definitely am. It was less discerning than
than I am now. And now I'm with I'm just
with the most beautiful person for me, and yeah, it's
it's the best. It's honestly the best.
Speaker 1 (43:40):
Do you remember when you had that I Choose me
moment where you were like, I'm going to let love
happen for me again, because I know you were which time,
I mean, this last thing feeling from that massive loss
and all that went with that, and then you met
Ross and you came to was it an impulsive to
say when you met Ross too? Or was that something
(44:02):
that you had to like choose to go down that
road again?
Speaker 2 (44:07):
You know, I was dating someone else, So I was dating.
So here's okay, Okay, I was turning a wild woman.
Speaker 1 (44:13):
I love it.
Speaker 2 (44:14):
I know I was openly dating. So just you know,
I don't cheat. I've never cheated, and as far as
I know, I have never been cheated on in my life.
I have never dealt with infidelity as far as I know.
So I'm dealing with the hair stuff. I'm wearing these extensions.
I'm keeping like the whole thing is secret because I'm
so ashamed by it. And I'm turning fifty. Okay, I've
lost my partner. I've lost what I think is going
(44:35):
to be the last great love of my life. How
do I Who's going to want me in my fifties?
You know? And then I shaved my head and I'm
dating this guy and it's not I was holding on
for dear life with this guy even though he was
the wrong guy. And from the beginning he told me
like he told me he doesn't want partnership. He wanted
to be free, a free spirit, a Peter Pan. He
(44:57):
wanted that, you know. So it's like, I what do
I do when I want something, I'm gonna I'm going
to like push that square bag in that round hole,
no matter what. And so I was distracted in this
relationship that was not making me happy. And Ross comes
into the picture. I was introduced to him by a
mutual friend. I you know, I went out with him
because I was in an open you know. The guy
wanted an open thing. So I'm like, all right, whatever, wait.
Speaker 1 (45:18):
Wait wait wait wait wait wait wait, yeah, you are
in an open relationship.
Speaker 2 (45:23):
Yes, but for me, I was thinking, oh, I'm so
open minded, I'm a free spirit. Okay, yeah, But turns
out it brought out the worst in me. I was
so jealous. I was so insecure. I'm not insecure. I
told you, I love myself. I love every square inch
of myself. And I was becoming this person that I
did not recognize. And it was really Again, it was
another learning experience for me because I find out that
(45:45):
I'm actually a serial monogamist, like I actually, you know, yeah,
I'm not as open as I thought I was. So
I was with that guy this beginning of the pandemic.
The guy was perfectly nice guy. He just wasn't the guy.
But I'm thinking he's the guy because there's no other guy.
And I've got the gray. My hair was shaved, so
I had like half inch of gray hair. I thought
(46:06):
I look great, but I was. You know, I'm definitely
not everyone's type. And I get introduced to Ross and
what drew me to him is that he grew up Mormon.
He grew up Mormon. Then this is before the Real
Housewives of Salt Lake City. Okay, but I'm like fascinated
I'm an next talk show host. I love like humanity
and and so I was curious. I went out with
(46:28):
him literally to talk his ear off about Mormonism and
just to hear all the crazy stuff that goes on
behind the scenes. He and he's also six foot six, Okay,
he's a giant. I am five ' three. On a
good day, I was wearing a moomoo. I was wearing
a giant moumou. He said I looked like I was
four hundred pounds. He said it was false advertising. But yeah,
(46:48):
we went out and it was not a love connection
like the first date was not. It was like one
of those awkward COVID like hugs. You know you want
to hug, but like you don't want to die from it,
and so it was just like bye, see you again,
you know never, and we we. I reached out to
him like three weeks after that, when I was medicating
self medicating at home on a couple of cocktails and
(47:09):
another thing that we won't mention, but basically I was
like hi, and I wrote him, you know, I'd broken
up with the other guy again. We've gotten back together,
broke up again, And I wrote Ross. I was like,
are we ever going to hang out again? He's like sure,
and I was like, come over. And he was a
five minute walk from my house where I was living.
I was living in the Marina. Five minute walk. He
walks over and is like sandals and his red solo,
(47:30):
spicy marg and a cup and yeah, I mean, truth
be told. I did tell him. I warned him that
I'm gonna I'm going to I can't believe I'm want
to say this. I warned him that I'm going to
be the best lover he's ever had.
Speaker 1 (47:44):
Oh, I love it, You're confident.
Speaker 2 (47:46):
And then yeah, and then I passed out and then
he you know. So basically that was our meet cute story,
and then we became each other. Well, he became my
booty call for a number of months while I was
still seeing the other guy. I was very open. I
told raw, look, I'm a little bit bit of a
head case, blah blah blah. But then I literally saw
the light. I don't know if you follow like like
the moon and astrology in the moon and like, so
(48:09):
there was a super blue moon on Halloween of twenty twenty.
I don't know if that rings a bell to you,
but it was just a big thing, and my friends
were telling me, oh, this is a portal you know,
knowing and have an intention. Da da dah. And so
that was the night. We've been dating for like three
months casually, and that was the night on Halloween night
where I literally it was like a rom com where
(48:31):
I looked and did a double take in my house.
He came over and i'd cause I wrote him I
was supposed to a party and I canceled, and then
I wrote to him and I was like, hey, come over,
and this time he put his foot down and he's like, Okay,
I'll come over, but I'm staying over this time. You're
gonna have to deal with me in the morning, because
every other time he'd left, you know, when we finished.
And so we that night he came over and he
(48:52):
sat on my couch. I remember looking at him and
doing a double take, and I was like, Oh, it's you.
It's always been you are the one. And that was it,
Like it's like the light bulb went on over my head.
And then he was he'd been waiting and he doesn't
like to admit that, but he was. He was in
love with me and waiting for me to come around
and we've been together ever since. That was Halloween of
(49:14):
twenty twenty and we got married in January twenty twenty two.
And we are the happiest people in our fifties that
I think you'll ever meet. It's like when it's right,
it's right. We've never had an argument, we've never had
a crossword, we've never gotten sick of each other, and
we spend all of our time together when we're not working.
It's which is a lot.
Speaker 1 (49:36):
Oh my god. I love this conversation so much.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
It's so good.
Speaker 1 (49:39):
It's so good. We're going to continue this conver We
are going to continue it, but on your podcast Yay.
Before we go, I want to ask you, Ricky Lake,
what was your last I Choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (49:51):
This morning, I choose to take really good care of
my body and my mind. And so I go on
a hike every single morning. As I said, I live
in Malibu, and I go out o my door and
I do a three mile hike with my dog, most
of the time with my husband. This morning, he didn't
join me, and then I forced myself to go to
my Lagrie pilates class. I do that three to four
times a week, and so it's you know, it's like,
would I rather stay in bed sometimes? But no, this
(50:14):
is done so much for my body and my mind
and my spirit, and so that is what I did.
That was absolutely a choose me moment.
Speaker 1 (50:22):
Love it. Hey, I'll see you on the other side.
Speaker 2 (50:24):
Yeah, I can't wait. Be there, be square.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
This conversation with Ricky has been too good. We are
going to continue part two over on her podcast, The
High Life. We'll link to the episode in our show notes,
so be sure to check the rest of this conversation
out as we continue to choose ourselves each week. I
want you to do something fun for yourself this week
(50:51):
that will be a mood booster whenever you need it.
I want you to make a playlist of all your
favorite upbeat songs, music you want to sing and roll
down the windows. Two songs that make you want to
dance in the kitchen while you're cooking. No sad emo
songs on this playlist. Okay, music can be so therapeutic.
I want you to make your own I Choose Me playlist.
(51:13):
You will find the song in a Mood by Ice
Spice online. It always puts me in a good mood.
I don't know there's just something about it. Thanks for
listening to I Choose Me. You can check out all
the social links in our show notes and the link
to part two of this incredible conversation with Ricky Lake.
So rate and review the podcast and use the hashtag
(51:35):
I Choose Me. I hope you'll be here with me
next week. I love you, guys,
Host
Jennie Garth
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