March 26, 2025 • 62 mins
Two-time Emmy Award-winning television host and executive producer of her own syndicated talk show, veteran journalist, and bestselling author Tamron Hall sits down with Jennie for a conversation where tears and gratitude are flowing!
The women are talking about Tamron's journey to motherhood in her 40s, how her late sister impacted her life, and what inspired her to write her first children's book, Harlem Honey!
Plus, did you know Tamron and Jennie were part of the same family? ...The woodwind family that is!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. My
guest today is a two time Emmy Award winning television
(00:21):
host and executive producer of her syndicated talk show that
is now in its sixth season Wooo. She's a veteran
journalist and best selling author, and she's got a new
book out that I just love the message of. I
can't wait to talk about it. Please welcome Tameron Hall
to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi, so good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
It's so good to see you. Oh my gosh. I
had the best time on your show.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It was like a week ago.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for dedicating a
whole episode to the idea of I Choose Me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What. I was so tickled, tickled love you know what,
because I think it's such a great. First of all,
I didn't know the exact episode. Kudos to my team
for finding the episode, but I think it is. It
transcends age race, It transcends where you are in your
life because at some point that question of choosing me
and what does that feel like? I just thought it
(01:23):
was so perfect, So thank you. It was. It was wonderful.
Thank you for mine. You get a producer's credit, Oh,
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'll take it. But since we talked so much about
me last time on your show, today, I choose to
talk about you, Tameron Hall, than thank you. Can you
take me back to the beginning. I want to know
what you were like when you were a little girl,
and what kind of home you grew up in. These
are the things that I'm curious about.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh well, you know, I think my mother would describe
me as a very interesting child, especially because he was
a single, nineteen year old mother of one. My mom
was in college when she got pregnant, and she's from
a very very small town called Luling, Texas. It's a
(02:10):
hill country right outside of Austin. We got the best
rivers and the best barbecue were the best test and
she came home, I would imagine, and we had not
talked a lot about it, but I'm sure that you know,
you're nineteen and you come home and you're pregnant. There's
a lot of stigma attached to that. There's a lot
of shame. My mother's mother passed away when she was
(02:32):
ten and so my mom was ten years all the time.
So her primary parent was her father, like this giant
of a person in our lives, but was shouldering a lot,
you know, raising any little girl by himself and her sisters.
And you know, she comes home from college and she's pregnant,
and the relationship with my biological father was not one
(02:54):
that was a stable one for her. And my grandfather,
who's a very was a very strong person, said you
know what, we're gonna raise her here and we're gonna,
you know, give her the best life possible and was
very supportive. I was the only child born in the
hospital in the entire town that day. Oh, I know.
(03:17):
My mother talks about the friends of hers who they
all kind of lined up to go to see. Like
I make the joke, and it's true. My mother's name
happens to be Mary. They did not name me Jesus
for their arrival, had all the three wise men's coming,
and my mom talks about everyone showing up uh to
see me as a kid. So I uh was born
(03:39):
in this circumstance that could have been one of great
shame for her, and I'm sure she debated it, but
it turned into one where instantly she had this great
support system of people around her, including her father, and
I was the beneficiary of that. And at some point
my mother decided that she wanted something bigger than this
(04:01):
small town life that she was living. And it wasn't
a negative, but like so many of us choosing themselves,
she chose herself. And by choosing herself, she gave me
the best opportunity she felt, which was leaving our small town.
And so I grew up with my mom and a
(04:21):
great group of aunts and uncles. You know, my mother
would work a couple of jobs because she went back
to school to get her degree, and she work a
couple of jobs to support me, and this aunt would
pick me up on Wednesdays, this uncle would take us fishing,
and you know, so it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Was just this It's really cool.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It was very, very very cool childhood. In the process,
my mother says that she noticed that, you know, I
was out going around my family members, but very different
out in the world. I was a lot shyer kid.
I was an only child, and so all of the
kids in my neighborhood had siblings, so I was a target.
You know, just how kids work, right, you know, you're
(05:03):
gonna they're gonna find your weakness. And my weakness was
I was the only child, and so now I'm up
against big groups of siblings and you know, and all
these things. And so my mom got me in sports.
I ran track, you know. I I played volleyball. I
did all these things as my mom was trying to
(05:25):
build my confidence. I played the clarinet. You know you
name it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
She's hey, hey, I played the clarinet.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What chair were you? I was chair one man?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Hello, right here.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It was okay, let's stay on the road, Cardigian, let
me get Carnigie.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
My favorite part of playing the clarinet was the read.
You had to soak the read. I thought I was
so cool soak the read.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh yeah, that's smell. So that's the best. My mom
was always putting me in things for the very thing
that just happened, Like putting me in music was a
connecting force. So the reason and that my mom put
me in band was for the same reason. We just connected.
Because music is a connecting thing, you know, it brings
me together. So she thought, I guess it'd make me
(06:07):
a popular kid or get some friends. She was right, Well,
she was right I'm friends with you. Now we're going
to go to my mom. But she kept trying to
bring this personality out that I showed with my cousins,
and I was always really good around adults. Was in
fact my nickname was not necessarily because I was very precocious.
(06:30):
You know, my cousins. When there was a dispute, I
was like the lawyer. I'm like, hey, look at let's
hear the side. My grandfather had a soft spot for
me because of what happened with my mom, and so
if there was something they wanted, they'd like, send me in.
I'm like the I'm the un I'm going in making
deals for them. They want candy, you know what I'm doing.
Very confident around adults, very very safe around my families.
(06:54):
But in the world behaviorally, I showed up different, and
so my mother really made sure that I had this
community of support. She really wanted to always make sure
that I could show up as this confident kid, and
that's really the start of what I do now for
(07:15):
a living. We would do little talent shows I couldn't sing,
I couldn't dance, and birthday parties. You know, they do
like this little in the South, they have talent shows.
Every birthday has a talent show. Like here in New York,
every birthday ends with a pizza, you know. When I'm
in the South, we have these big birthday parties in
the backyard or at a park or at a zoo,
and then inevitably someone's like, let's do a talent show.
(07:36):
I couldn't sing a dance, but I was a talker,
and so I would be like the MC you know,
I'd get up and say, next up, it's Jenny and
the Jeanettes hit it. You know, Oh my gosh, person
in the middle facilitating all of the talent that was
around me again, hint, hint, kind of what I do now.
(07:57):
And that was, you know, the road and I started
out on and I was very fortunate that around the
age of nine, my mother fell in love with the
person who was the data got meant for me to
have my stepfather and who I referred to as my father.
And he is that and was that until the day
he left this planet. And he too, going back to
(08:20):
the mantra of choosing you, and I was, I don't know,
messing up in high school. And I remember because in
middle school and not doing what I was supposed to.
And he pointed to the TV and he said, if
you get your grades it was great, that could be you.
And he pointed at this woman. She was anchoring the news.
Her name was Iola Johnson and she was the first
black woman to anchor the news in Dallas for worth
(08:41):
and he said, if you get your grades up, that
could be you. And I look up and I see
this woman and I'm like, what is this you're speaking of?
And I love a good challenge. And I then started
getting into writing classes. I got in, like there's a
group called the Jas and they did this scholarship thing,
and I, you know, started writing and applying and just
kind of doing these things to prove that woman on
(09:03):
the TV could be me. Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So it seems like that sort of sparked that interest
in you of storytelling.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think it was the storytelling and the
idea that someone thought enough of me to issue this challenge.
I think sometimes when people issue a challenge, particularly to
our children, it can be seen as a negative. But
I think that people issue a challenge to you because
they believe you can do it, and they want you
to say sounds something big or something that you can accomplish.
(09:32):
That's why you know my son right now, he's five
and we have this badge system my husband found on Amazon,
and it's so complicated. I let them deal with it.
But it's like, if you do this, you get the badge,
and then if you do this, give back, and then
if you get five badges, you get a rivet and
if you get a ribn you can catch. I'm like, oh,
my head's spinning, but you just do it. I'm like, dude,
she's give them pizza party. But it works because my
(09:53):
son's like the other day, he walks like, because Dad,
I'm gonna get that badge today, and I'm like, oh
my god, okay, so cute. But yeah, he cashes in
his badges and so often the cash in is a ribbon,
and then he takes the ribbon and then he goes
to he likes bowling, and so we're taken bowling or
pizza party, but boler, oh, this is the bowler, which
(10:16):
I was like, okay, we'll figure that one out. But
you know, it's again that idea of giving someone a
goal and saying without saying I think you are capable
and of reaching that, and that's what he did I.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Mean, that's the exact opposite of what a lot of
people here, which is you could never beat that right.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And you know, and that's the thing. When I wrote
my children's book, Harlem Honey, you know, we have adjusted,
For example, the way we talked to kids about crying. Right,
there was a time people would say, big boys don't cry,
or you know, you want to get a right away
those tears in some of the language that we all
grew up hearing. Right, you say to a kid that's crying,
(11:00):
are your tears? There's nothing wrong. Big kids don't cry,
Big boys cry. And when I wrote Harlem Honey, it
was centered around fear. Right, how do we change the
way we talk about fear? We all experience it, we
all deal with it different levels, of course, but it's
an emotion that is not one that should be tied
to shame. And when I was creating this book, much
(11:22):
to your point about how we position things now, right,
my father positioned this challenge in this positive way that
inspired positivity. It's the same with emotions. You know, when
I had my son, and I'm sure you've experienced this.
Now we're obsessed over like ABC's I Love, I got
all the books of the ABC's and the color of shape.
(11:43):
And then very early on someone said, you know, social
emotional development is more important at this age how to count?
And I'm like, what, because I went to pre K
and I vividly to this stage and I'm fifty four.
I remember the blow up let in my Catholic school kindergarten.
I guess it was. There was mister M with a
(12:05):
munching mouth. I'll never forget that's him. Oh yeah, fifteen
years later, I remember mister M with a munching mouth.
And that was the focus. Right, this is nineteen seventy
at the time, seventy five, and focus is getting you,
you know, reading and academics and the testing that was
such a big part of our culture and still is.
(12:25):
But it was everything determines everything about you. And then
suddenly our eyes awaken through probably some painful situations that
we all witnessed and watched over society where kids are
bottling themselves or are pushing themselves down and bottling up
emotions and not being able to express how you feel
(12:47):
is detrimental to your mental health, it's detrimental to the
adult you have the capacity to become. And so for me.
That's been such a big part of my focus and
why I said, you know what, how do we talk
about as my father so wonderfully learned to talk about
goals with me.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I want to talk about your children's book more because
I read it and it's really cute and it gave
me all just good feelings. So I commend you for it.
But I want to go off of what you were
just talking about about how your father helped you. I
know you've talked about this before. You suffered a grave
tragedy in your life and it's just hard to think
(13:34):
of getting past that.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, no, I listen and thank you for asking about it.
By the way, and just as we talked about on
my show, Challenging Things, I was the first to tell you.
I said, I don't technically like talking about x's because
you're in your future. And I liken it too. When
you go to dinner someone suddenly start your current person
(13:56):
is there and they're like, oh, did you ever run
in a Jimmy? It's like what you know? And so
we were on the show. You were so gracious and
so wonderful in the way you talked about the evolution
of relationships and it's part in your life. As with
this conversation we are having, I feel so safe and
(14:18):
cared for by you, and I want to thank you
for that, because for people who were listening, what we're
talking about is the death of my sister. As I mentioned,
my stepfather became the dad I was meant to have,
and he had two children. My mother had two children,
and we really became like a Black Brady bunch and
was lended family. And because he was very adamant about
(14:41):
not seeing us as half or step or we were
a family. This is my sister and my sister, which
I'd always longed to have, right, I wanted a sister
just because I visualize us, like you know, doing girl stuff,
doing her hair and everything. And when I met her,
she was like the most beautiful and chic and just
(15:04):
seemed worldly, right, just you know, just was awesome, Like
she just had the right outfits on it. I remember
she was the first person she had a bottle of
perfume and it was a necklace and I just I know,
she was just like chic. At the same time, she
was a person who I would hear my father say, God,
(15:28):
you are better than this guy, or you should not
be in this relationship with this person. And I would
hear these conversations, was in my teen years, but it
was always this push pull with them, and that pushful
often surrounded the people she was keeping company with romantically,
(15:50):
and she would move in with us and move out,
then move out, and was always this tumult, you know,
around her relationships. And as we got old her, you know,
she would say, you know, Dad doesn't understand, and you know,
I'd love this person or that. And I was old
enough by then high school to recognize, like, these guys
(16:12):
are coming over and got these are not. I'm eighteen
by now I'm dating, and I can right on here.
It's not just Dad being dad, right, I could tell.
And as the years would pass, she'd come back into
our lives and disappear out of our lives. And at
some point she starts to get stable in her life
(16:33):
and she is in a relationship with someone and he
starts to come by our home, and you know, things
start to feel good finally in her life. You know,
she's bought a house and things are going great, and
I invited her to come to see me in Chicago.
By then, I'll figure I'm the big sister who is
a big deal. Now I'm the big little sister. I'm
an anchor in Chicago. Come and see me, you know.
(16:55):
I got a townhouse downtown near Horp. Yes. She comes
with me, and she brings the person she was seeing
in her life at the time. And I don't know
Jenny what day it was of their visit, but I'm
in my townhouse and I hear this, like just a
rumble of just sound and energy and something crashing. Now,
(17:18):
what's going on? And I run down to my bottom level,
which was a guest bedroom, and there was a table
that was shattered, and she was standing there and she's
kind of like clearly dazed. And he's standing there and
I know there was an altercation and I can see it,
and I instantly started yelling at him, like what get
(17:39):
out of my house, and I'm trying to grab the phone.
I had a phone downstairs, and there was a like
a my garage was nearby, so there was a broom
handle thing that was there, and I grabbed this room
and I'm like get out, and I'm like not hitting,
but I'm threatening, you know, to get out because I
get out right now. And I kick them out of
our house, my house. I call my d instantly, I
(18:01):
just like, lock the doors, call the police. And I
go to call the police, and I said, oh, I can't.
I'm tammern hall. The police are going to come to
my house and they're going to know that it be
all over the news. I's going to be all over
the news and what I can't So I don't call
the police. I you know, bat patch her, you know,
get her ice, and we clean up and we don't
(18:23):
really I don't really ask what happens because I don't
need to know because I can see. And then we
go to bed. The next morning, I come downstairs, he's
in my house. He's back in the house, and I'm
like what. And I said to her, what are you
(18:44):
thinking that I kick them both out? She's visiting. They're visiting,
and I said, get out. I'm going I remember, I
said there was a spa like I'm going and get
and when I come back, you get to get out
of my house. This whole thing. Call my dad. She's
so selfish, she doesn't why you know, blah blah blah
blah blah. I'm going off about it. And my Dad's like, well,
(19:06):
you know, she'll figure it out. And I'm like, Dad,
she's not going to figure out. Because I was hurt.
I'm like, what what are you thinking? And I was
also mad at her for not believing more in herself.
What I'm thinking, like, yeah, it's so hard, so amazing.
What is wrong with you? You know? This is me
at that time. We don't talk for a couple of months.
(19:32):
The holidays rolls around Thanksgiving and my father said, you know,
listen enough of this. You know we're not figured out.
So I called her and she was getting her nails done,
much like us with the clarinet. It was her common thread.
She's like, hey, manicure and I was like okay, and
we just start talking. And then we come home for
(19:52):
the holidays and she's still with this person and he's
there and I don't say anything to him. Really, he
hadn't say anything to me. We go on about our way.
Fast forward, not very long from that time, my mother
calls me on a Sunday and she's like just crying
and wailing and she said, Ranata is dead. And I'm
(20:15):
like what and she said, call your father, and I'm
my mom, pull over. I call my dad and my
dad always said that, you know, from his point of view,
he always called me his kid of right, like he
always says, of all my siblings, I was going to
try to be the level headed one, he said to me,
(20:36):
very calmly, because my dad was in the military and
he's got two purple hearts and he's seen it all.
And he said, baby, call and see what's going on.
What happened there? I said, okay, And I called my
sister's house and the person was there and he said,
the police are there. And I said, the police are there.
(20:58):
He said, she was found in her pool, face down
and they don't know what happened. And I think, you know,
she was drinking maybe and she did you know all this,
you know, had a local news friend. And I called
a friend and I said, what's going on and he said, well,
the police are there and they believe it's not an accident,
(21:19):
and so I was like, okay, And you know, we
started the process and the investigators at the time told
us that that they did not have enough evidence to
charge someone or got to get the DA to charge someone,
but they believed that strongly that the individual who was
(21:42):
in the home was the person responsible. She had blunt
forced impact to the back of her head, and there
were other signs there that this was not an accident.
Her dog, who she affects a mini me because she
had this like blonde hair and her dog was kind
of blonde, was there, and you know, some of the
details I you know, don't need to get into, but
(22:03):
it was a violent and so yeah, we proceeded on
and in the process I never talked about it Jenny ever.
My family. We kind of just you know, forbid him
from having contact with my family. We kind of moved forward.
We laid my sister to rest, and then I'm in
(22:28):
New York. It's two thousand and eight and I was
invited to speak at an event, a random event. I'd
just gotten here and I was at the Today Show
and at the time, they will invite you to host things,
you know, people were like, oh, Jenny, can you host this?
You know, I got an invitation. I host an organization
that helps young people understand how to love healthy, and
(22:49):
then I shared my sister's story and that that was
the start of me becoming an advocate for survivors of
domestic violence and speaking more about from the lands of
a family member of how to support without judgment because
at the time I judged, and now I have the
tools and the understanding that I try to offer to
(23:09):
other people through your tragedy.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
You're helping other people. That's beautiful. I just how do
you find closure when there is none? Because that's her
case was never solved, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
For me, I think, well, my father hassoke in the
heart of for so long trying to help her. My
sister battled substance abuse in her past. She was not
in that state when she was killed, but her younger years.
So we always worried about, you know, this notion that
people will blame a victim, and I think that's also
(23:44):
part of why we stayed silent. Nobody deserves that fate,
and certainly no one deserves as a victim to have
everything about you dragged into a space of judgment when
you are not there to defend yourself. So I think
for us, because the investigators were so clear and we
understood what happened, I think our view of justice changed.
(24:07):
I think what we saw was a just thing for
us was to help other people, you know, hunting someone
down or I've never even done a show on it.
To be honest with you, because it's just not that space.
We've done shows on domestic violence and my sister's youngest
son came on the show, because we are committed to
helping families, but we've never approached it from this lens
(24:32):
of Okay, this is a who done it because from
the point of view of the investigators, they felt they
knew and that was enough for us.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Is that when you started your interest in writing the
novels that you've written the crime novels?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Oh? Yeah, you know, because I was a journalist for
thirty years, and yes you are, Oh gosh. The first
part of my career was I was a reporter on
the street, I mean with Brian College Day, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas,
Fort Worth. The novel that I wrote, the Jordan Manning series,
honestly was inspired by my years of being a crime reporter,
(25:12):
not related to my personal family search situation. It was
just I felt like people didn't really know what happens
when you're a crime reporter. And then I thought I
wanted her to be this colorful character. I grew up
loving Nancy Drew novels. That was my whole bed. It
was like it was if you didn't find oriole cookies.
You found Nancy the Future, and so I thought it
(25:33):
would be fun to have this female protagonist that was
a crime solving journalist. And I thought that it would
you know, I wanted a little mix of sex in
the city and waiting to extale. I just wanted her
to be this fun but intense person that you want
on your side, like a blood howling, right, And so
that came and I wrote those Jenny in the Pandemic.
(25:55):
By the you know, the second or third time, I
was going to just leave my h for not breaking
down the Amazon boxes. You know, we're all dug in
and I'm like, okay, buddy, one more Amazon box and
not opening. You're out of here. Let me, harness, listen
to something more positive. So I started to write the
Jordan Manning crime series. I was I fell asleep watching
(26:17):
ESPN or he fell asleep and the next thing, and
I was like, Michael Jordan Peigon Manny. Her name Jordan Manning.
There it is, you know, And so I love that.
I would go out on this little deck that we
have in sag harber and Online Island and I just
write and I get up with my coffee. I felt
very Stephen King it's like old and I had my
(26:38):
little writer's costume and my coffee and evergrease. Meanwhile, because
we couldn't do anything else, we were stuck. And so
I wrote that series and then my cookbook. My dad
loved to cook, my grandfather loved to cook, and I
happened to be happy to be best friends with a
James Beard Award winning culinary producer who's a recipe writer.
(26:59):
And so I know, right, I was like, did I
pick you? Really? You know? And we became best of friends.
We're sisters and so proud of our book because that
cookbook again, it's it's seventy two phenomenal recipes and she's
the best at recipe writing in the business. But we
when the publishers looked at the marketplace, we were the
(27:20):
only cookbook with a white woman and a black woman,
and the only cookbook with a straight woman or identified
straight in LGBTQ. And I thought, wow, going back to
our clarinet story, you know, music is a common thread.
Food is a common thread. And that was such an
enjoyable and fun project to do with lish styling. She's
from Wisconsin, I'm from Texas, and we would joke that
(27:42):
even now you see the cover of our book with
the same haircut. So all things really just like what
you know, like your podcasts and the things you've created.
We are lucky to have lived long enough to have
stories and lived long enough to be able to understand
them and why they are why it's good to share.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Them, right, Sharing something that that is so important to
you and you're so passionate about, it's such a no
brainer to share. So from the mystery novels to the
cookbook and now a children's book, right, I know you guys,
(28:23):
you have to pick up this book. It's called Harlem Honey,
The Adventures of a Curious Kid, and your son is
the star of the book.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, well, you know he's inspired. This little boy happens
to be named Moses as my son. He's in the
first grade, and he's just moved from Texas to New York,
specifically Harlem, and I really wanted to talk about, you know,
this idea of new places and new faces. I've said,
when I wrote the Jordan Manning series, it was during
(28:54):
the pandemic. You know, our lives all shut down. My
son wasn't one years old yet. Honestly, Jenny, I I
had my I got pregnant at forty eight. I have
hosted morning shows for thirty years. I've probably interviewed every
childbook author on how to raise a kid. But you know,
until you're on the team, you don't know how to
play the sport. It's like, so now I'm on the
(29:14):
team and it's a global pandemic. I didn't even know that.
You take them off formula to milk if that's your
choice or whatever. They go. It ends after I'm like,
wait what. I felt like they stayed on formula for
like two years and I didn't breastfeed, so I'm really like,
wait what, And it's a global pandemic and I can't
get food and I'm like, oh my goodness, the whole
(29:35):
thing changed. So those are the things that were my focus,
just the day to day, and then you know, we
were inside of our home. It really gave me this
opportunity to be there with my son that I would
not have had, so first steps, things that I would
have missed had I been in the studio. I got
a chance to see firsthand, and we grew so close.
(29:58):
When things reopen and he was invited to his first
birthday party, he was hiding in the corner, like this
guy in the car. He's mister Razzle Dazzle, He's mister
Talk and he talk. And we get to the birthday party.
His hands are sweaty, he's next to me. He won't leave,
and I'm like, okay, but I understand. It's a birthday.
(30:20):
It's overwhelming. Things happen, but then it happens again and
again in different circumstances, and then we would come home
from this scary situation and he'd talk all about it.
He knew what everyone wore, everything said, the music that
was played. He was just so I realized that this
was a kid who was observing but was afraid to
get in. He wanted it didn't have that, I can
(30:46):
tell you. I debate whether it was because we were
inside for a long time or that's his natural personality
as it was mine. I don't know. But how did
I How do I address it? What I do became
the priority, not the what happens right? And so I
started to talk to other parents who talked about kids
(31:06):
who present shy or the reality that we all do,
and that on the other side of fear is often
something so fun. So this is a book that talks
about through curiosity and kindness, how you can face your fear.
The backdrop is half Texas, half Harlem, New York. But
(31:28):
in truth, the first outside experience all of our children
have it's not a school, it's the neighborhood. So Harlem
is his neighborhood, but it's meant to represent whether you
have a tiny community or you're walking out your door
to nine O, two, one zero, whatever, it is your
first exposure outside of the intimacy of your family home
(31:49):
is your neighborhood. And so we use music, we use food,
we use kindness and curiosity as this way for adults
to talk to kids about how you face that fear
and what fun you can find on the other side.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, and the through line too is also back to connection.
What we were talking about before is realizing how you
are connected to everything around you if you just take
a look.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
And it's true, and it's a reminder. You know, when
I was writing this book and even now we still
read it, my son's going to go on tour with
me and he's actually preparing for his first school musical.
I mean, we went from a few years ago a
kid who would not you know, participate a birthday party.
He's Orange Crayon number three and the upcoming music. Wow, hey,
the crayons quit, and oh my gosh, he's ready to sing.
(32:40):
He's singing Somewhere over the Rainbow and it's so funny.
We were watching the Oscars and he has no idea
who Ariana Grande is. And we're at dinner and the
Oscars are on. He looks up and he's like, what
is she singing my song? Who is this singing my song?
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I think he thought it was his life and I
says original Ariana Grande.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
He's like whoo. And then I said, that's the Oscars, Mom,
what's the Oscars? So after his musical, I'm gonna get
like a little fake Oscars made for him so I
can give him his Oscar once he gets done with
it on at the end of the month. But you know,
he's now learned that facing his fear can inspire other things, right,
and so he really was my test subject in this
(33:21):
and we have there. We still have moments where he says, Mom,
I don't want to go in. I'm not ready, you know,
or he'll say that and I'm okay with that. He
has to be a well he's walked into as you know,
you are an international star. I host a talk show.
Our kids aren't part of our world, but they're not
part of our world, right, And so with him, I
(33:43):
even debated namely the character after him, because so he's
very distinct named Moses, right, He's not the original Moses,
but he is a Moses, and people see him and
they say Moses, and they're excited because they're excited. For me,
being a forty eight year old first time mom at
the time, that can a lot for a kid to
take in. But in his own daily life, you know,
(34:05):
we went to uh he asked me to go to
see Kids Bop Live. He loves Kids Bop he's all
about and we got tickets and we took him to
New Jersey and he was absolutely terrified. Like we get
there and he's like, wait, this is way bigger than
I expected. This is way different than I expected. And
he wanted to leave. And my instinct, you know, was like,
(34:27):
let's get in this car. We're gonna go right back home.
But I was like, you know, okay, let me breathe,
because how I react to this is how he acts.
If I keep pushing get in there. That's going to
add a resistance, right, So okay, say well whenever you're ready.
And then the show started. He starts to hear familiar song.
I see the side look, you know that that wanting
(34:51):
to be in behavior and physical change. And before I
know it, he's in the seat, We're dancing, We're having
a good time. He's you know, the kids pop. They
vote on which finale song and his finale song for
you which one he wanted? Didn't get it. I didn't
get my song. You know, he's invested in it and
he's having a great time. He's now in basketball and
he goes on Sundays. I'm so happy the first time
(35:13):
he went first, Please not the first time, maybe the
first week. You want no parts. He sat there on
the side and he looked and didn't want and I said,
you know, you love Jalen Brunson. You love the Knicks.
To my dismay, being from Dallas, I want him to
love the Mavericks, but he loves the Knicks. And then
this week the class was the last day and this
(35:34):
this coach is female coach who was there at the beginning,
came back for their little ceremony or whatever, and she
pulled my husband over to the side and she said, oh,
I can't believe look at this kid. Look at him.
I mean he's like dribbling with right hand left handed.
He's like having a great time. He needed to have
that time. The book is also a reminder, I hope
(35:56):
to adults, really something that I think you have learned
and are learning every day, how precious patience is with
ourselves giving ourselves that time, but also our kids. You know,
how easy is it to say, Okay, we're gonna go
to dinner, hurry, put your socks onto the Okay, you
can't get shucks, let me put it on for you.
(36:16):
It's delaying and putting their socks one put time to
let me put the thumbs in to pull the sock up,
and we gotta go, We gotta go. So I'm gonna
put this on for you. You know. Yeah, we think
it's helping. But if we can and by the way,
baking in that time to watch them put their socks on,
I mean we like danced around the first time we're
(36:38):
tackling shoe tie. Now, I's like, oh my god, those
are the exhilarating, beautiful sensations that we deserve too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I mean that message is so important and I was
gonna say that before it. By you having that kind
of patience and talking about those moments in your real
life with your son, that will help other people to
regain some patience, because it's really easy to be impatient.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Listen, I'm going to work in progress, you know, I am.
I'm a blank canvas with a little bit of the
sketch on it because I have to do it for
myself all the time, you know, and it is we
know the value of it. We know it is priceless, right, yes,
but we fall prey to it. You know. Sometimes we'll
(37:26):
go to a restaurant and my son will you know,
he's stirring around. Well, we've gone to restaurants for fifty
years of our lives. The first time this kid has
walked into this environment, been in this environment. And yes,
we want them to behave accordingly. We want them to
be a little perfectly mannered children who go to the
seat and put their They're just walking into a whole restaurant.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, this is all new for them.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
It's all new for them, you know. Speaking of all.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
New for you, I really want to talk about your
choice to become a mom at forty eight. Ah, I'm
really interested in that because I was there rooting for
you the whole time. And I remember when you got pregnant.
I remember seeing you pregnant and I had already loved
you from the Today Show. Yeah, and so I was
(38:21):
just rooting you on and like it was such a
big deal. She's pregnant at forty eight.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
You know it was. I'll tell you. If I had
not lost that job, I don't think I would have
had my son. It was the first time I've worked
since I was fourteen. My very first job was Toys
r us. I still have my first paycheck, you know,
my little stub because I was like, what the takeout
(38:47):
stuff was as well? You still have it. That's so
great years later. I've worked since I was fourteen. I've
never been fired in my life. I was always a
high achieving person, you know. Or once my dad gave
me that challenge, my value became. What I saw is
my value was work, you know, because you can lose that.
(39:07):
And even at age eighteen, a dear friend mom gave
me a book and one of the chapters said, who
are you if there's no title beneath your name? I'm eighteen.
That means nothing to me. I don't even think about it.
Fast forward age four six, old boy. That book A
Path of Light, that's been sitting on my bedside or
(39:28):
whatever since I was eighteen, suddenly makes sense now. And
it was the first time that I said, you know,
I'll be okay if I am not on a TV show.
I'll be okay if I'm not a reporter, I'll figure
this out, you know. And whatever aspirations of, you know,
being on a national news show, it didn't matter to me.
(39:50):
I left the show. It was important for me to
take that stand for myself. I at the time did
not have a child. I was my backup. So trust me,
I'm looking at the ATM and the numbers are not numbering.
But I was going to figure it out, right. I
was like, you know, I didn't my parents didn't have
a gold Bars buried somewhere. I was on my own.
My mother's big contribution was to tell me I could
(40:12):
move back to my room, and I was like, it's
not going to happen, but thank you for the offer.
We're not there yet. We're not there yet, you know.
And during the time of trying to figure out this
next act in my life. I got an offer to
have a show executive produced by Harvey Weinstein. That day
(40:35):
felt like the best day of my life. Right, Oh
my gosh, I've gone from being invisible in this workspace
to speaks this guy, this is the guy that everyone
told this is the guy, right, and thinking, wow, big
breaks do happen, wonderful And now I'm kind of back
into the identity. Right, I'm about to be a talk
show host out here my title it's back. And then
(40:59):
one day I got a call that his name was
being mentioned along the lines of the word someone. The
person actually said the R word, and I said retirement
and because I have not, and they said fortunately, no,
yeah exactly, And I said what now everything is like, oh,
(41:27):
I had at the time already met my now husband,
because when I agreed to executive produce the show with
Harvey Weinstein, there were a lot of like just ebbs
and flows and just just things that were happening. Now.
I know he was under investigation, but there were these
inconsistencies that made me not feel certain. Nothing behaviorally toward me,
(41:50):
but just like so just weird energy. You know, when
you're like, this is weird energy around here, and I
didn't know what it was. And I remember throwing myself
this hitting party because I was in LA And as
you know, when you go into business with somebody, reach
an agreement, they're going to give you X amount of
dollars to hold exclusive rights to whatever you're doing, so
it's like a holding fee or whatever. And he was
(42:13):
slow on that payment, and I'm like, I need my money,
here's my money. What's going on here? So now I'm
feeling like, oh, this guy sold me a bill of
goods and this show's never going to happen, and I'm sad, sad, sad.
And then I went out to the pool at the
Sunset Marquee. I was actually supposed to stay at another
hotel because I told my travelation at the time, I
(42:33):
want to stay where they are, like, guys, I want
somewhere with a cute bars. I'm single and I am
ready to date and you know, move on my life.
He puts me up at a hotel and everyone there
is like a twenty year old wrapper, and I'm like,
because twenty year olds are wrapper, this is not my scene,
not my scene. So he put me up at Sunset
(42:53):
Marquee only because he's like, it's a great hotel. I
was like, all right, fine it because I'd given up
on dating at that point. Now between the hotel in
the five minutes, I thought that was the deal breaker
for you. I'm in the room. I throw myself a
proper pity party, and then I went to the hotel cool.
I have, like I put a one piece on, so
(43:14):
clearly I wasn't trying to bring any kind of a game.
I was done at that point. I got to the
school and I looked up and walking toward me is Steven.
And we'd run into each other many times at different events.
He you know, he's in the music business, he's a manager,
he's worked with a lot of people. And he sat
down and we started talking. And I think because I
(43:34):
didn't have I just kind of got it to this
fitt moment with work and all of this, su I
saw this person and we're just talking and then we
started arguing over who has the best pizza in New
York and he's like, I'm a New Yorker, I know.
And then we agree to go on like a pizza showdown.
It wasn't nothing elaborate, it was no like it was
(43:54):
a pizza, and when I was back in New York
and whole turns out he had a place a few
blocks from min. I'm like, wait, what, this is interesting,
and we you know, started to hang out, and a
couple of weeks later we moved in and okay, I'm
furious as we were talking. That's why I laught. That's
why I laughed when you said it on my show
(44:15):
about you, like all the weeks I was like, wait, oh,
that's funny. So like, within a few weeks we started
dating and then going to the point that you asked
me my husband had no children, and he said he
always wanted children. He had his own childhood journey that
was complicated and complex, and he just never thought he
(44:35):
was going to be a dad or that he had
the skills to be a dad based on how he
was raised. And then I said, well, you know, I
love to look into this, you know, this concept of
us being parents as we're here now, and I think
that not having the pressure of the job had allowed
(44:57):
me to give my body grace. Had I had a
lot less stress, a lot less just everything. I felt
a lot less it about myself. To be honest, I've
never shared that with anybody. But I went through that
phase of just feeling it was like, this is now.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
It sounds like a real transitional time for you, and
so much uncertainty. Yeah, but I love that you are
by the pool and just letting it happen.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
But I'll hang out at an unattractive one piece, yeah,
and this and then this is what comes to you. Yeah,
And it came to me, it really did. And the
right person at the right time, under the right circumstances,
and for me, for me, you know. And we went
through multiple rounds of IVF, multiple and there were, you know,
(45:46):
some hard truths. And one day I was driving and
I saw this sign that talked about adoption and I
thought that was an the fifth I was like, oh,
this is it, This is it. I should you know.
This is the route. I'm not going to do this anymore.
This is the route. And I wasn't angry, it wasn't resigned,
it wasn't like, oh, I'll just stood up. It wasn't that.
It was like, oh, this is the sign. Like when
(46:07):
I went to the pool. It wasn't a negative or positive.
It was a sign. And I got a call that
things were looking good, and then we taped my pilot
for the talk show that next morning, and I got
(46:29):
a call early that morning that we, in fact I
was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Wow timing, I.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Still kept that out. It was just crazy. So I'm
walking out of my pilot.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I remember your pilot, I remember the first time.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Pilot, and I am I'm pregnant, and I'm just like wow.
And you know, we kept a private for thirty two
weeks because I was a geriatric pregnancy. I didn't know
what that meant, and also I wasn't on daily TV yet,
and I wanted to protect my relationship my husband. I
wanted to protect my sanity. As you know, people will
(47:10):
you tell someone you're pregnant and you're like, oh boy,
it's gonna be hard to marry. Oh boy, marriage is hard.
And I get that sentiment of why people do it.
We're kind of just trained. It's like a rote thing
to say. But I am more conscious than ever of
how I respond to whatever someone is sharing with me, right,
and I wanted to just enjoy it. And then we
(47:31):
got a call thirty two weeks in. My team called
and said, oh, there's a tabloid that's about to say
you're pregnant. I'm like what And what happened was I
reserved our maternity room and you have to do it
under your name and someone had told someone and they
called our team and it almost made it, almost made
(47:52):
it almost made it. And it was funny way because
at the time that baby Shark song was like and
so I ran, I got this like actually dress I
had and I and my husband's like, what are we
gonna do? What are you gonna do? I was like,
We're gonna do Baby Shark. And then I had the
book in front of my belly and I was like
do do do do? Do? Do do? And then I
removed the book and then it's like a baby and
(48:13):
then it was like People magazine. You know how it
goes after that? Yeah, you know. I'm but I think
fast forward when I look at that. As I said,
the loss became a win and not with the talk show, right,
it became a win in love the way I think
I became a more present friend. I think sometimes my
conversations were one sided, and I know talk show hosts
(48:36):
are just born that way to have one sided conversations
because that much. But I just got a chance to
catch up with my friends and not talk about work,
and I know that work is what provides the lives
that we have. So I'm not like I grew up very,
very poor, So I'm not going to be that person
to say moody doesn't matter. But it doesn't. It's not
(48:59):
the total of happiness or our journeys. I've been both
sides of the conversation, and it's about perspective of what
it brings and what you can use it to do
good and help others. It's a complicated conversation, but it
is recognized that having that break from work gave me
love time, It gave me my child in so many ways,
(49:24):
and it gave me a rebirth, which was the show
back with the wealth of things I feel to offer
that I didn't have before.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
In your late forties. I mean, I was just talking
with EVT Nicole Brown and she just got married for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yes, she met Oh wait wait, even their date that
he took her onto the theater happened right after she
came on my show. That's last Oh lucky to take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
For Yes, you should, you absolutely should, but just like
talking about how society's timeline and just because you do
things later in life if it doesn't mean that you
are less deserving of love or motherhood or anything. I mean,
how have you felt about your experience with motherhood in
this chapter of your life? Being you know, an older
(50:12):
mom like you said you were a geriatric pregnancy, and
it just.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Hit me hard. And I'm sorry, I just I think
it's amazing. I love it. No, I got to tell you,
wisdom has been an interesting thing for me lately. For
so long, a lot of young women, not just with
the pregnancy, but with the career rebirth. Oh my god,
I look up to you, and I didn't know how
(50:36):
to accept that. Not that I felt like they were
saying that I was old. I just never felt wise.
I never felt like I was like, really me because
I can't relate. I just like, you know, okay, well thanks,
I don't know what I did, you know, Or when
people say you're so courageous and I'm like, well, what
was I going to do? You know? And so I've
recently tried to step out of body and understand what
(51:00):
they see. Oh my gosh, I've been doing the same.
Oh right, that's where as I'm like, it must be
our age.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
If I'm about to turn fifty three.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
It's our age because I've like, I got to step
out of this to understand what they see. Yes, and
it's not about running away from age. I just still
see myself as this trying to figure it out, you know. Yeah,
you know. And and so with being a mom, of course,
I've had some exercise on well, what would I have
(51:30):
been at twenty seven thirty there? And I can't conceptualize
it because I just don't can't live in that space.
But I have been so honored that not just late
to the party parents as I call us, but like
women in their thirties talk to me more openly about
freezing eggs. You know. Dulce Sloan from Daily Show, she
(51:50):
came on and she talked about like, and we've become
friends off camera, and she says, you know, freezing her eggs.
She felt shame because it made her feel like she
wasn't gonna get it right or whatever. You know. Yah,
and Ashanti just married Nellie and just had her first
child at forty three, and she frozen her eggs. When
they were broken up, She's like, I didn't even know
(52:10):
he would we were rekindled, but she knew she possibly
wanted this part, but she felt shame. Right, so much
shame attached to this, right we are in this. You know.
I have a girlfriend that I love dearly, and she
one day said to me with shame, and I could
hear in her voice, I never want to be a mom,
she said, Tam, And it's not in me. I haven't
(52:31):
had any trauma. I had a great mom, I had
a great day. I just I don't want it, okay,
And I said, okay, right, you know, And that's so
there's so much shame was surrounded with you do or
you don't.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
So for me, I have become more aware of womanhood
and motherhood being two different journeys, and supporting my female
friends on the womanhood journey and understanding that my motherhood
journey means something to my other friends. And so I
(53:08):
guess I'm in that space now. But when I look
at the parent I am now and I look at
the age I am now, I think again, it's like
that book, don't sweat the small stuff. I think I've
had enough time to know the bull. I don't things
out frazzle me as much as they used to. I
(53:31):
do care what people think. We all do to some degree,
but I have it in greater perspective of it. And
even you know, when I was writing this book, you know,
Harlem Honey, really was not me saying, let me just
put my name on something so I can get a
check or d d da da dah. Right, thing to
me means something to me I have. I'll try not
(53:54):
to cry here. But the two oldest living relatives I
have are both and they're in their chapters perhaps of goodbye.
It's an uncle who has been just a champion for
my mom and me. And it's my aunt who when
(54:19):
my mom's mom died when she was ten, I was
much older. She's much older than my mom, and my
mother tells the story of her bringing her clothes, you know,
to get ready to go to school in and being
a big sister but also a mother figure at the
same time. So it's our patriarch and our matriarch of
our family. And my mom is down a few days
(54:39):
from seventy five, and she said, yeah one day, and
she's very virile. She's go on her cruises and all
this sudden stuff. But she says to me, it goes
so fast. I knew her at nineteen. I knew when
she was a baby who sat out on this adventure
and this journey with faith and belief that she could
(55:00):
somehow figure out this better life for her and her kid.
And I'm the result of that. And so now at
fifty four, you know, I don't say this to chastise
the youth or to imply that they don't know or
you don't know. My nephew's twenty seventy calls for advice
all the time. He's like my kid. But you know,
(55:22):
it goes fast. And when you can learn that a
lot of the crap that people tell you really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
It is the fills up a lot of headspace.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
Though it fills up the head until it prevents. Creativity
blocks you from love, sometimes blocks you from loving yourself.
Oh yeah, it sometimes blocks you from just living your life.
And I have an eighteen year old niece who are
a door and she'll probably see this interview and wag
(55:54):
her finger at me, but she's, you know, I love
this kid, and she's not sure what she wants to do,
you know, And everybody's like you gotta do it, gotta that,
gotta do this, it's gotta do that, gotta it, and
it's like set aside your social media, it's just societal
pressures like to tell you gotta figure all of this
out by eighteen.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
What it's ludicrous. I feel you because my daughter, my
youngest daughter, is eighteen, and I feel there's so much pressure.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
It's so unfair. And I know we can point a
straight line to social media, but even before then, you know,
people like gotta go to college, gotta get into gotta
get if you don't, and then if you and then
you do all that at eighteen, and then by forty
it's like, okay, now you got a whole another It's
like we just fill our headspace with this stuff. And
so being Michelle Obama was on my show one day.
(56:42):
She was talking about menopause and she said, you know,
it's a blessing to get that far, you know, right right,
you know. And so whether it's that change in life
or the change that allows you to recognize that if
you can some your headspace with the views of others,
(57:02):
you will never find your path. That takes time. Because
age I didn't have twenty said, I thought I did.
I didn't know anything, and I'm okay that I didn't.
I'm okay that I did not know how dangerous it
was to drive one thy five hundred and twenty eight
miles with a dog and a map by myself. I'm
(57:24):
okay with not knowing that right deadline crime at the time.
I don't even like girls stay home, you know. It's
there's a certain amount of fearlessness that comes with I
think fearlessness in the twenties springs perspective, I guess for
me in the fifties.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
I think that's a big part of it. Like we're
able to step back, like you said, and like kind
of widen the scope, like really widen and see it
all and also just really see our journey and have
such this immense gratitude for the journey that we've been on.
And I think that just creates such a piece And
(58:07):
I I mean, we all know that leading with gratitude
every morning, thinking about what we're grateful for is going
to set you up for success for the rest of
the day. But this is just like full circle life,
coming back to great gratitude.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
I love that, and that's what I try to do.
You know, before I get out of bed, I literally
will lie in bed and I want my first thoughts
to be gratitude. I want the first thing that I
say in my brain right is something that is positive
and grateful and an opportunity to start it that way
(58:47):
versus some negativity about myself. You know, they always say
you say things to yourself you would never say to
someone else. You know, I want to start my day.
It's like, it's you know, the second best thing is
coffee for me, right, It's like I need that that
thought of gratitude, and it's and maybe when you're you know, younger,
(59:07):
you kind of think, Okay, this is what they're saying
because they've had successful lives or My mother again, was
a nineteen year old single mother, and I believe she
got to where she is now and raised the child
that I am as an adult is because she led
with gratitude. And that wasn't fame, that wasn't fortune, that
was doubts. She could have led with shame, she could
(59:29):
have led with you know, y means, she could have
led with fear. But she grew up in a town
where we didn't get a paved street until the eighties.
You know, she didn't have these things. But she had gratitude.
So that is not it's not owned by a race,
(59:50):
it's not owned by a gender. It's not owned by
one socioeconomic group. It is afforded to us all. And
I I think the best of the journey is when
you can fight the noise and lead.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
With that yes so true, before I let you go
tammeron hall. What was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Oh, that's a great one. Oh my last I choose
me moment? Oh it was this morning. So yesterday I
had a very early morning and I had a very
intimidating thing that I had to face, and it took
a lot of I actually that shy kid and me
showed up yesterday and I had to deal with her
(01:00:35):
and do this event that I wasn't prepared for telling me.
So this morning, when it was time to wake up
and get my son ready for school, I fought mom
guilt as if one morning of not getting him ready
versus his dad was going to somehow change the trajectory
of his entire life. And I laid in bed and
(01:00:56):
I did it. Get up, and I let my husband
warm the care at my And not that he wouldn't,
but sometimes even when he's willing to will when he
does do it, and he does it every morning with me,
but I feel guilty fight when out there, like if
I'm not you know, right, give me the kiss, you know.
And I was like, my kid knows he loves me
(01:01:17):
and I love him, and I'm going to stay in
this bin. Have a good day, kiddo.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Oh my god, that's a good one. Just stay in bed.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
I stayed in bed and it was delicious and it
was great. And now he is home and I can
hear him and we'll go to taekwondo and then I'm
going to drop him at taekwondo and then go to
dinner with my husband. But yeah, yeah I did, because
he's We fight that, right, We fight the fear of
this light thing that I do will somehow spell irel
into my kid having a horrible life. That's just not true.
(01:01:47):
And I didn't do it. So I chose that. I
chose shows me to stay in the bin.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Yeah, you needed to refuel.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
I did. I needed in and it felt great. Well.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I love talking to you. Thank you so much for
being on the pod, Jem, and I'm always here for
you if you need a guest.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Oh, well done. Well if we start practicing, because I'm calling, yes, Paul.
They've never seen this coming.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Two first chairs. Come on, have a great anniversary and
have fun at Taekwondo.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
I love you and thank you for the coming.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
I love you too. Bye.
You're listening to I Choose Me with Jenny Garth. Hi, everyone,
welcome to I Choose Me. This podcast is all about
the choices we make and where they lead us. My
guest today is a two time Emmy Award winning television
(00:21):
host and executive producer of her syndicated talk show that
is now in its sixth season Wooo. She's a veteran
journalist and best selling author, and she's got a new
book out that I just love the message of. I
can't wait to talk about it. Please welcome Tameron Hall
to the podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:42):
Hi, so good to see you.
Speaker 1 (00:44):
It's so good to see you. Oh my gosh. I
had the best time on your show.
Speaker 2 (00:50):
It was like a week ago.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Oh my gosh. Thank you so much for dedicating a
whole episode to the idea of I Choose Me.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
What. I was so tickled, tickled love you know what,
because I think it's such a great. First of all,
I didn't know the exact episode. Kudos to my team
for finding the episode, but I think it is. It
transcends age race, It transcends where you are in your
life because at some point that question of choosing me
and what does that feel like? I just thought it
(01:23):
was so perfect, So thank you. It was. It was wonderful.
Thank you for mine. You get a producer's credit, Oh,
thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (01:29):
I'll take it. But since we talked so much about
me last time on your show, today, I choose to
talk about you, Tameron Hall, than thank you. Can you
take me back to the beginning. I want to know
what you were like when you were a little girl,
and what kind of home you grew up in. These
are the things that I'm curious about.
Speaker 2 (01:50):
Oh well, you know, I think my mother would describe
me as a very interesting child, especially because he was
a single, nineteen year old mother of one. My mom
was in college when she got pregnant, and she's from
a very very small town called Luling, Texas. It's a
(02:10):
hill country right outside of Austin. We got the best
rivers and the best barbecue were the best test and
she came home, I would imagine, and we had not
talked a lot about it, but I'm sure that you know,
you're nineteen and you come home and you're pregnant. There's
a lot of stigma attached to that. There's a lot
of shame. My mother's mother passed away when she was
(02:32):
ten and so my mom was ten years all the time.
So her primary parent was her father, like this giant
of a person in our lives, but was shouldering a lot,
you know, raising any little girl by himself and her sisters.
And you know, she comes home from college and she's pregnant,
and the relationship with my biological father was not one
(02:54):
that was a stable one for her. And my grandfather,
who's a very was a very strong person, said you
know what, we're gonna raise her here and we're gonna,
you know, give her the best life possible and was
very supportive. I was the only child born in the
hospital in the entire town that day. Oh, I know.
(03:17):
My mother talks about the friends of hers who they
all kind of lined up to go to see. Like
I make the joke, and it's true. My mother's name
happens to be Mary. They did not name me Jesus
for their arrival, had all the three wise men's coming,
and my mom talks about everyone showing up uh to
see me as a kid. So I uh was born
(03:39):
in this circumstance that could have been one of great
shame for her, and I'm sure she debated it, but
it turned into one where instantly she had this great
support system of people around her, including her father, and
I was the beneficiary of that. And at some point
my mother decided that she wanted something bigger than this
(04:01):
small town life that she was living. And it wasn't
a negative, but like so many of us choosing themselves,
she chose herself. And by choosing herself, she gave me
the best opportunity she felt, which was leaving our small town.
And so I grew up with my mom and a
(04:21):
great group of aunts and uncles. You know, my mother
would work a couple of jobs because she went back
to school to get her degree, and she work a
couple of jobs to support me, and this aunt would
pick me up on Wednesdays, this uncle would take us fishing,
and you know, so it.
Speaker 1 (04:39):
Was just this It's really cool.
Speaker 2 (04:40):
It was very, very very cool childhood. In the process,
my mother says that she noticed that, you know, I
was out going around my family members, but very different
out in the world. I was a lot shyer kid.
I was an only child, and so all of the
kids in my neighborhood had siblings, so I was a target.
You know, just how kids work, right, you know, you're
(05:03):
gonna they're gonna find your weakness. And my weakness was
I was the only child, and so now I'm up
against big groups of siblings and you know, and all
these things. And so my mom got me in sports.
I ran track, you know. I I played volleyball. I
did all these things as my mom was trying to
(05:25):
build my confidence. I played the clarinet. You know you
name it.
Speaker 1 (05:28):
She's hey, hey, I played the clarinet.
Speaker 2 (05:30):
What chair were you? I was chair one man?
Speaker 1 (05:33):
Hello, right here.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
It was okay, let's stay on the road, Cardigian, let
me get Carnigie.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
My favorite part of playing the clarinet was the read.
You had to soak the read. I thought I was
so cool soak the read.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Oh yeah, that's smell. So that's the best. My mom
was always putting me in things for the very thing
that just happened, Like putting me in music was a
connecting force. So the reason and that my mom put
me in band was for the same reason. We just connected.
Because music is a connecting thing, you know, it brings
me together. So she thought, I guess it'd make me
(06:07):
a popular kid or get some friends. She was right, Well,
she was right I'm friends with you. Now we're going
to go to my mom. But she kept trying to
bring this personality out that I showed with my cousins,
and I was always really good around adults. Was in
fact my nickname was not necessarily because I was very precocious.
(06:30):
You know, my cousins. When there was a dispute, I
was like the lawyer. I'm like, hey, look at let's
hear the side. My grandfather had a soft spot for
me because of what happened with my mom, and so
if there was something they wanted, they'd like, send me in.
I'm like the I'm the un I'm going in making
deals for them. They want candy, you know what I'm doing.
Very confident around adults, very very safe around my families.
(06:54):
But in the world behaviorally, I showed up different, and
so my mother really made sure that I had this
community of support. She really wanted to always make sure
that I could show up as this confident kid, and
that's really the start of what I do now for
(07:15):
a living. We would do little talent shows I couldn't sing,
I couldn't dance, and birthday parties. You know, they do
like this little in the South, they have talent shows.
Every birthday has a talent show. Like here in New York,
every birthday ends with a pizza, you know. When I'm
in the South, we have these big birthday parties in
the backyard or at a park or at a zoo,
and then inevitably someone's like, let's do a talent show.
(07:36):
I couldn't sing a dance, but I was a talker,
and so I would be like the MC you know,
I'd get up and say, next up, it's Jenny and
the Jeanettes hit it. You know, Oh my gosh, person
in the middle facilitating all of the talent that was
around me again, hint, hint, kind of what I do now.
(07:57):
And that was, you know, the road and I started
out on and I was very fortunate that around the
age of nine, my mother fell in love with the
person who was the data got meant for me to
have my stepfather and who I referred to as my father.
And he is that and was that until the day
he left this planet. And he too, going back to
(08:20):
the mantra of choosing you, and I was, I don't know,
messing up in high school. And I remember because in
middle school and not doing what I was supposed to.
And he pointed to the TV and he said, if
you get your grades it was great, that could be you.
And he pointed at this woman. She was anchoring the news.
Her name was Iola Johnson and she was the first
black woman to anchor the news in Dallas for worth
(08:41):
and he said, if you get your grades up, that
could be you. And I look up and I see
this woman and I'm like, what is this you're speaking of?
And I love a good challenge. And I then started
getting into writing classes. I got in, like there's a
group called the Jas and they did this scholarship thing,
and I, you know, started writing and applying and just
kind of doing these things to prove that woman on
(09:03):
the TV could be me. Wow.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
So it seems like that sort of sparked that interest
in you of storytelling.
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Yeah. Absolutely, I think it was the storytelling and the
idea that someone thought enough of me to issue this challenge.
I think sometimes when people issue a challenge, particularly to
our children, it can be seen as a negative. But
I think that people issue a challenge to you because
they believe you can do it, and they want you
to say sounds something big or something that you can accomplish.
(09:32):
That's why you know my son right now, he's five
and we have this badge system my husband found on Amazon,
and it's so complicated. I let them deal with it.
But it's like, if you do this, you get the badge,
and then if you do this, give back, and then
if you get five badges, you get a rivet and
if you get a ribn you can catch. I'm like, oh,
my head's spinning, but you just do it. I'm like, dude,
she's give them pizza party. But it works because my
(09:53):
son's like the other day, he walks like, because Dad,
I'm gonna get that badge today, and I'm like, oh
my god, okay, so cute. But yeah, he cashes in
his badges and so often the cash in is a ribbon,
and then he takes the ribbon and then he goes
to he likes bowling, and so we're taken bowling or
pizza party, but boler, oh, this is the bowler, which
(10:16):
I was like, okay, we'll figure that one out. But
you know, it's again that idea of giving someone a
goal and saying without saying I think you are capable
and of reaching that, and that's what he did I.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Mean, that's the exact opposite of what a lot of
people here, which is you could never beat that right.
Speaker 2 (10:39):
And you know, and that's the thing. When I wrote
my children's book, Harlem Honey, you know, we have adjusted,
For example, the way we talked to kids about crying. Right,
there was a time people would say, big boys don't cry,
or you know, you want to get a right away
those tears in some of the language that we all
grew up hearing. Right, you say to a kid that's crying,
(11:00):
are your tears? There's nothing wrong. Big kids don't cry,
Big boys cry. And when I wrote Harlem Honey, it
was centered around fear. Right, how do we change the
way we talk about fear? We all experience it, we
all deal with it different levels, of course, but it's
an emotion that is not one that should be tied
to shame. And when I was creating this book, much
(11:22):
to your point about how we position things now, right,
my father positioned this challenge in this positive way that
inspired positivity. It's the same with emotions. You know, when
I had my son, and I'm sure you've experienced this.
Now we're obsessed over like ABC's I Love, I got
all the books of the ABC's and the color of shape.
(11:43):
And then very early on someone said, you know, social
emotional development is more important at this age how to count?
And I'm like, what, because I went to pre K
and I vividly to this stage and I'm fifty four.
I remember the blow up let in my Catholic school kindergarten.
I guess it was. There was mister M with a
(12:05):
munching mouth. I'll never forget that's him. Oh yeah, fifteen
years later, I remember mister M with a munching mouth.
And that was the focus. Right, this is nineteen seventy
at the time, seventy five, and focus is getting you,
you know, reading and academics and the testing that was
such a big part of our culture and still is.
(12:25):
But it was everything determines everything about you. And then
suddenly our eyes awaken through probably some painful situations that
we all witnessed and watched over society where kids are
bottling themselves or are pushing themselves down and bottling up
emotions and not being able to express how you feel
(12:47):
is detrimental to your mental health, it's detrimental to the
adult you have the capacity to become. And so for me.
That's been such a big part of my focus and
why I said, you know what, how do we talk
about as my father so wonderfully learned to talk about
goals with me.
Speaker 1 (13:12):
I want to talk about your children's book more because
I read it and it's really cute and it gave
me all just good feelings. So I commend you for it.
But I want to go off of what you were
just talking about about how your father helped you. I
know you've talked about this before. You suffered a grave
tragedy in your life and it's just hard to think
(13:34):
of getting past that.
Speaker 2 (13:35):
Yeah, no, I listen and thank you for asking about it.
By the way, and just as we talked about on
my show, Challenging Things, I was the first to tell you.
I said, I don't technically like talking about x's because
you're in your future. And I liken it too. When
you go to dinner someone suddenly start your current person
(13:56):
is there and they're like, oh, did you ever run
in a Jimmy? It's like what you know? And so
we were on the show. You were so gracious and
so wonderful in the way you talked about the evolution
of relationships and it's part in your life. As with
this conversation we are having, I feel so safe and
(14:18):
cared for by you, and I want to thank you
for that, because for people who were listening, what we're
talking about is the death of my sister. As I mentioned,
my stepfather became the dad I was meant to have,
and he had two children. My mother had two children,
and we really became like a Black Brady bunch and
was lended family. And because he was very adamant about
(14:41):
not seeing us as half or step or we were
a family. This is my sister and my sister, which
I'd always longed to have, right, I wanted a sister
just because I visualize us, like you know, doing girl stuff,
doing her hair and everything. And when I met her,
she was like the most beautiful and chic and just
(15:04):
seemed worldly, right, just you know, just was awesome, Like
she just had the right outfits on it. I remember
she was the first person she had a bottle of
perfume and it was a necklace and I just I know,
she was just like chic. At the same time, she
was a person who I would hear my father say, God,
(15:28):
you are better than this guy, or you should not
be in this relationship with this person. And I would
hear these conversations, was in my teen years, but it
was always this push pull with them, and that pushful
often surrounded the people she was keeping company with romantically,
(15:50):
and she would move in with us and move out,
then move out, and was always this tumult, you know,
around her relationships. And as we got old her, you know,
she would say, you know, Dad doesn't understand, and you know,
I'd love this person or that. And I was old
enough by then high school to recognize, like, these guys
(16:12):
are coming over and got these are not. I'm eighteen
by now I'm dating, and I can right on here.
It's not just Dad being dad, right, I could tell.
And as the years would pass, she'd come back into
our lives and disappear out of our lives. And at
some point she starts to get stable in her life
(16:33):
and she is in a relationship with someone and he
starts to come by our home, and you know, things
start to feel good finally in her life. You know,
she's bought a house and things are going great, and
I invited her to come to see me in Chicago.
By then, I'll figure I'm the big sister who is
a big deal. Now I'm the big little sister. I'm
an anchor in Chicago. Come and see me, you know.
(16:55):
I got a townhouse downtown near Horp. Yes. She comes
with me, and she brings the person she was seeing
in her life at the time. And I don't know
Jenny what day it was of their visit, but I'm
in my townhouse and I hear this, like just a
rumble of just sound and energy and something crashing. Now,
(17:18):
what's going on? And I run down to my bottom level,
which was a guest bedroom, and there was a table
that was shattered, and she was standing there and she's
kind of like clearly dazed. And he's standing there and
I know there was an altercation and I can see it,
and I instantly started yelling at him, like what get
(17:39):
out of my house, and I'm trying to grab the phone.
I had a phone downstairs, and there was a like
a my garage was nearby, so there was a broom
handle thing that was there, and I grabbed this room
and I'm like get out, and I'm like not hitting,
but I'm threatening, you know, to get out because I
get out right now. And I kick them out of
our house, my house. I call my d instantly, I
(18:01):
just like, lock the doors, call the police. And I
go to call the police, and I said, oh, I can't.
I'm tammern hall. The police are going to come to
my house and they're going to know that it be
all over the news. I's going to be all over
the news and what I can't So I don't call
the police. I you know, bat patch her, you know,
get her ice, and we clean up and we don't
(18:23):
really I don't really ask what happens because I don't
need to know because I can see. And then we
go to bed. The next morning, I come downstairs, he's
in my house. He's back in the house, and I'm
like what. And I said to her, what are you
(18:44):
thinking that I kick them both out? She's visiting. They're visiting,
and I said, get out. I'm going I remember, I
said there was a spa like I'm going and get
and when I come back, you get to get out
of my house. This whole thing. Call my dad. She's
so selfish, she doesn't why you know, blah blah blah
blah blah. I'm going off about it. And my Dad's like, well,
(19:06):
you know, she'll figure it out. And I'm like, Dad,
she's not going to figure out. Because I was hurt.
I'm like, what what are you thinking? And I was
also mad at her for not believing more in herself.
What I'm thinking, like, yeah, it's so hard, so amazing.
What is wrong with you? You know? This is me
at that time. We don't talk for a couple of months.
(19:32):
The holidays rolls around Thanksgiving and my father said, you know,
listen enough of this. You know we're not figured out.
So I called her and she was getting her nails done,
much like us with the clarinet. It was her common thread.
She's like, hey, manicure and I was like okay, and
we just start talking. And then we come home for
(19:52):
the holidays and she's still with this person and he's
there and I don't say anything to him. Really, he
hadn't say anything to me. We go on about our way.
Fast forward, not very long from that time, my mother
calls me on a Sunday and she's like just crying
and wailing and she said, Ranata is dead. And I'm
(20:15):
like what and she said, call your father, and I'm
my mom, pull over. I call my dad and my
dad always said that, you know, from his point of view,
he always called me his kid of right, like he
always says, of all my siblings, I was going to
try to be the level headed one, he said to me,
(20:36):
very calmly, because my dad was in the military and
he's got two purple hearts and he's seen it all.
And he said, baby, call and see what's going on.
What happened there? I said, okay, And I called my
sister's house and the person was there and he said,
the police are there. And I said, the police are there.
(20:58):
He said, she was found in her pool, face down
and they don't know what happened. And I think, you know,
she was drinking maybe and she did you know all this,
you know, had a local news friend. And I called
a friend and I said, what's going on and he said, well,
the police are there and they believe it's not an accident,
(21:19):
and so I was like, okay, And you know, we
started the process and the investigators at the time told
us that that they did not have enough evidence to
charge someone or got to get the DA to charge someone,
but they believed that strongly that the individual who was
(21:42):
in the home was the person responsible. She had blunt
forced impact to the back of her head, and there
were other signs there that this was not an accident.
Her dog, who she affects a mini me because she
had this like blonde hair and her dog was kind
of blonde, was there, and you know, some of the
details I you know, don't need to get into, but
(22:03):
it was a violent and so yeah, we proceeded on
and in the process I never talked about it Jenny ever.
My family. We kind of just you know, forbid him
from having contact with my family. We kind of moved forward.
We laid my sister to rest, and then I'm in
(22:28):
New York. It's two thousand and eight and I was
invited to speak at an event, a random event. I'd
just gotten here and I was at the Today Show
and at the time, they will invite you to host things,
you know, people were like, oh, Jenny, can you host this?
You know, I got an invitation. I host an organization
that helps young people understand how to love healthy, and
(22:49):
then I shared my sister's story and that that was
the start of me becoming an advocate for survivors of
domestic violence and speaking more about from the lands of
a family member of how to support without judgment because
at the time I judged, and now I have the
tools and the understanding that I try to offer to
(23:09):
other people through your tragedy.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
You're helping other people. That's beautiful. I just how do
you find closure when there is none? Because that's her
case was never solved, you know.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
For me, I think, well, my father hassoke in the
heart of for so long trying to help her. My
sister battled substance abuse in her past. She was not
in that state when she was killed, but her younger years.
So we always worried about, you know, this notion that
people will blame a victim, and I think that's also
(23:44):
part of why we stayed silent. Nobody deserves that fate,
and certainly no one deserves as a victim to have
everything about you dragged into a space of judgment when
you are not there to defend yourself. So I think
for us, because the investigators were so clear and we
understood what happened, I think our view of justice changed.
(24:07):
I think what we saw was a just thing for
us was to help other people, you know, hunting someone
down or I've never even done a show on it.
To be honest with you, because it's just not that space.
We've done shows on domestic violence and my sister's youngest
son came on the show, because we are committed to
helping families, but we've never approached it from this lens
(24:32):
of Okay, this is a who done it because from
the point of view of the investigators, they felt they
knew and that was enough for us.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
Is that when you started your interest in writing the
novels that you've written the crime novels?
Speaker 2 (24:49):
Oh? Yeah, you know, because I was a journalist for
thirty years, and yes you are, Oh gosh. The first
part of my career was I was a reporter on
the street, I mean with Brian College Day, Chicago, Philadelphia, Dallas,
Fort Worth. The novel that I wrote, the Jordan Manning series,
honestly was inspired by my years of being a crime reporter,
(25:12):
not related to my personal family search situation. It was
just I felt like people didn't really know what happens
when you're a crime reporter. And then I thought I
wanted her to be this colorful character. I grew up
loving Nancy Drew novels. That was my whole bed. It
was like it was if you didn't find oriole cookies.
You found Nancy the Future, and so I thought it
(25:33):
would be fun to have this female protagonist that was
a crime solving journalist. And I thought that it would
you know, I wanted a little mix of sex in
the city and waiting to extale. I just wanted her
to be this fun but intense person that you want
on your side, like a blood howling, right, And so
that came and I wrote those Jenny in the Pandemic.
(25:55):
By the you know, the second or third time, I
was going to just leave my h for not breaking
down the Amazon boxes. You know, we're all dug in
and I'm like, okay, buddy, one more Amazon box and
not opening. You're out of here. Let me, harness, listen
to something more positive. So I started to write the
Jordan Manning crime series. I was I fell asleep watching
(26:17):
ESPN or he fell asleep and the next thing, and
I was like, Michael Jordan Peigon Manny. Her name Jordan Manning.
There it is, you know, And so I love that.
I would go out on this little deck that we
have in sag harber and Online Island and I just
write and I get up with my coffee. I felt
very Stephen King it's like old and I had my
(26:38):
little writer's costume and my coffee and evergrease. Meanwhile, because
we couldn't do anything else, we were stuck. And so
I wrote that series and then my cookbook. My dad
loved to cook, my grandfather loved to cook, and I
happened to be happy to be best friends with a
James Beard Award winning culinary producer who's a recipe writer.
(26:59):
And so I know, right, I was like, did I
pick you? Really? You know? And we became best of friends.
We're sisters and so proud of our book because that
cookbook again, it's it's seventy two phenomenal recipes and she's
the best at recipe writing in the business. But we
when the publishers looked at the marketplace, we were the
(27:20):
only cookbook with a white woman and a black woman,
and the only cookbook with a straight woman or identified
straight in LGBTQ. And I thought, wow, going back to
our clarinet story, you know, music is a common thread.
Food is a common thread. And that was such an
enjoyable and fun project to do with lish styling. She's
from Wisconsin, I'm from Texas, and we would joke that
(27:42):
even now you see the cover of our book with
the same haircut. So all things really just like what
you know, like your podcasts and the things you've created.
We are lucky to have lived long enough to have
stories and lived long enough to be able to understand
them and why they are why it's good to share.
Speaker 1 (28:03):
Them, right, Sharing something that that is so important to
you and you're so passionate about, it's such a no
brainer to share. So from the mystery novels to the
cookbook and now a children's book, right, I know you guys,
(28:23):
you have to pick up this book. It's called Harlem Honey,
The Adventures of a Curious Kid, and your son is
the star of the book.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
Yeah, well, you know he's inspired. This little boy happens
to be named Moses as my son. He's in the
first grade, and he's just moved from Texas to New York,
specifically Harlem, and I really wanted to talk about, you know,
this idea of new places and new faces. I've said,
when I wrote the Jordan Manning series, it was during
(28:54):
the pandemic. You know, our lives all shut down. My
son wasn't one years old yet. Honestly, Jenny, I I
had my I got pregnant at forty eight. I have
hosted morning shows for thirty years. I've probably interviewed every
childbook author on how to raise a kid. But you know,
until you're on the team, you don't know how to
play the sport. It's like, so now I'm on the
(29:14):
team and it's a global pandemic. I didn't even know that.
You take them off formula to milk if that's your
choice or whatever. They go. It ends after I'm like,
wait what. I felt like they stayed on formula for
like two years and I didn't breastfeed, so I'm really like,
wait what, And it's a global pandemic and I can't
get food and I'm like, oh my goodness, the whole
(29:35):
thing changed. So those are the things that were my focus,
just the day to day, and then you know, we
were inside of our home. It really gave me this
opportunity to be there with my son that I would
not have had, so first steps, things that I would
have missed had I been in the studio. I got
a chance to see firsthand, and we grew so close.
(29:58):
When things reopen and he was invited to his first
birthday party, he was hiding in the corner, like this
guy in the car. He's mister Razzle Dazzle, He's mister
Talk and he talk. And we get to the birthday party.
His hands are sweaty, he's next to me. He won't leave,
and I'm like, okay, but I understand. It's a birthday.
(30:20):
It's overwhelming. Things happen, but then it happens again and
again in different circumstances, and then we would come home
from this scary situation and he'd talk all about it.
He knew what everyone wore, everything said, the music that
was played. He was just so I realized that this
was a kid who was observing but was afraid to
get in. He wanted it didn't have that, I can
(30:46):
tell you. I debate whether it was because we were
inside for a long time or that's his natural personality
as it was mine. I don't know. But how did
I How do I address it? What I do became
the priority, not the what happens right? And so I
started to talk to other parents who talked about kids
(31:06):
who present shy or the reality that we all do,
and that on the other side of fear is often
something so fun. So this is a book that talks
about through curiosity and kindness, how you can face your fear.
The backdrop is half Texas, half Harlem, New York. But
(31:28):
in truth, the first outside experience all of our children
have it's not a school, it's the neighborhood. So Harlem
is his neighborhood, but it's meant to represent whether you
have a tiny community or you're walking out your door
to nine O, two, one zero, whatever, it is your
first exposure outside of the intimacy of your family home
(31:49):
is your neighborhood. And so we use music, we use food,
we use kindness and curiosity as this way for adults
to talk to kids about how you face that fear
and what fun you can find on the other side.
Speaker 1 (32:05):
Yeah, and the through line too is also back to connection.
What we were talking about before is realizing how you
are connected to everything around you if you just take
a look.
Speaker 2 (32:19):
And it's true, and it's a reminder. You know, when
I was writing this book and even now we still
read it, my son's going to go on tour with
me and he's actually preparing for his first school musical.
I mean, we went from a few years ago a
kid who would not you know, participate a birthday party.
He's Orange Crayon number three and the upcoming music. Wow, hey,
the crayons quit, and oh my gosh, he's ready to sing.
(32:40):
He's singing Somewhere over the Rainbow and it's so funny.
We were watching the Oscars and he has no idea
who Ariana Grande is. And we're at dinner and the
Oscars are on. He looks up and he's like, what
is she singing my song? Who is this singing my song?
Speaker 1 (32:53):
I think he thought it was his life and I
says original Ariana Grande.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
He's like whoo. And then I said, that's the Oscars, Mom,
what's the Oscars? So after his musical, I'm gonna get
like a little fake Oscars made for him so I
can give him his Oscar once he gets done with
it on at the end of the month. But you know,
he's now learned that facing his fear can inspire other things, right,
and so he really was my test subject in this
(33:21):
and we have there. We still have moments where he says, Mom,
I don't want to go in. I'm not ready, you know,
or he'll say that and I'm okay with that. He
has to be a well he's walked into as you know,
you are an international star. I host a talk show.
Our kids aren't part of our world, but they're not
part of our world, right, And so with him, I
(33:43):
even debated namely the character after him, because so he's
very distinct named Moses, right, He's not the original Moses,
but he is a Moses, and people see him and
they say Moses, and they're excited because they're excited. For me,
being a forty eight year old first time mom at
the time, that can a lot for a kid to
take in. But in his own daily life, you know,
(34:05):
we went to uh he asked me to go to
see Kids Bop Live. He loves Kids Bop he's all
about and we got tickets and we took him to
New Jersey and he was absolutely terrified. Like we get
there and he's like, wait, this is way bigger than
I expected. This is way different than I expected. And
he wanted to leave. And my instinct, you know, was like,
(34:27):
let's get in this car. We're gonna go right back home.
But I was like, you know, okay, let me breathe,
because how I react to this is how he acts.
If I keep pushing get in there. That's going to
add a resistance, right, So okay, say well whenever you're ready.
And then the show started. He starts to hear familiar song.
I see the side look, you know that that wanting
(34:51):
to be in behavior and physical change. And before I
know it, he's in the seat, We're dancing, We're having
a good time. He's you know, the kids pop. They
vote on which finale song and his finale song for
you which one he wanted? Didn't get it. I didn't
get my song. You know, he's invested in it and
he's having a great time. He's now in basketball and
he goes on Sundays. I'm so happy the first time
(35:13):
he went first, Please not the first time, maybe the
first week. You want no parts. He sat there on
the side and he looked and didn't want and I said,
you know, you love Jalen Brunson. You love the Knicks.
To my dismay, being from Dallas, I want him to
love the Mavericks, but he loves the Knicks. And then
this week the class was the last day and this
(35:34):
this coach is female coach who was there at the beginning,
came back for their little ceremony or whatever, and she
pulled my husband over to the side and she said, oh,
I can't believe look at this kid. Look at him.
I mean he's like dribbling with right hand left handed.
He's like having a great time. He needed to have
that time. The book is also a reminder, I hope
(35:56):
to adults, really something that I think you have learned
and are learning every day, how precious patience is with
ourselves giving ourselves that time, but also our kids. You know,
how easy is it to say, Okay, we're gonna go
to dinner, hurry, put your socks onto the Okay, you
can't get shucks, let me put it on for you.
(36:16):
It's delaying and putting their socks one put time to
let me put the thumbs in to pull the sock up,
and we gotta go, We gotta go. So I'm gonna
put this on for you. You know. Yeah, we think
it's helping. But if we can and by the way,
baking in that time to watch them put their socks on,
I mean we like danced around the first time we're
(36:38):
tackling shoe tie. Now, I's like, oh my god, those
are the exhilarating, beautiful sensations that we deserve too. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:48):
I mean that message is so important and I was
gonna say that before it. By you having that kind
of patience and talking about those moments in your real
life with your son, that will help other people to
regain some patience, because it's really easy to be impatient.
Speaker 2 (37:06):
Listen, I'm going to work in progress, you know, I am.
I'm a blank canvas with a little bit of the
sketch on it because I have to do it for
myself all the time, you know, and it is we
know the value of it. We know it is priceless, right, yes,
but we fall prey to it. You know. Sometimes we'll
(37:26):
go to a restaurant and my son will you know,
he's stirring around. Well, we've gone to restaurants for fifty
years of our lives. The first time this kid has
walked into this environment, been in this environment. And yes,
we want them to behave accordingly. We want them to
be a little perfectly mannered children who go to the
seat and put their They're just walking into a whole restaurant.
Speaker 1 (37:50):
Yeah, this is all new for them.
Speaker 2 (37:51):
It's all new for them, you know. Speaking of all.
Speaker 1 (38:00):
New for you, I really want to talk about your
choice to become a mom at forty eight. Ah, I'm
really interested in that because I was there rooting for
you the whole time. And I remember when you got pregnant.
I remember seeing you pregnant and I had already loved
you from the Today Show. Yeah, and so I was
(38:21):
just rooting you on and like it was such a
big deal. She's pregnant at forty eight.
Speaker 2 (38:26):
You know it was. I'll tell you. If I had
not lost that job, I don't think I would have
had my son. It was the first time I've worked
since I was fourteen. My very first job was Toys
r us. I still have my first paycheck, you know,
my little stub because I was like, what the takeout
(38:47):
stuff was as well? You still have it. That's so
great years later. I've worked since I was fourteen. I've
never been fired in my life. I was always a
high achieving person, you know. Or once my dad gave
me that challenge, my value became. What I saw is
my value was work, you know, because you can lose that.
(39:07):
And even at age eighteen, a dear friend mom gave
me a book and one of the chapters said, who
are you if there's no title beneath your name? I'm eighteen.
That means nothing to me. I don't even think about it.
Fast forward age four six, old boy. That book A
Path of Light, that's been sitting on my bedside or
(39:28):
whatever since I was eighteen, suddenly makes sense now. And
it was the first time that I said, you know,
I'll be okay if I am not on a TV show.
I'll be okay if I'm not a reporter, I'll figure
this out, you know. And whatever aspirations of, you know,
being on a national news show, it didn't matter to me.
(39:50):
I left the show. It was important for me to
take that stand for myself. I at the time did
not have a child. I was my backup. So trust me,
I'm looking at the ATM and the numbers are not numbering.
But I was going to figure it out, right. I
was like, you know, I didn't my parents didn't have
a gold Bars buried somewhere. I was on my own.
My mother's big contribution was to tell me I could
(40:12):
move back to my room, and I was like, it's
not going to happen, but thank you for the offer.
We're not there yet. We're not there yet, you know.
And during the time of trying to figure out this
next act in my life. I got an offer to
have a show executive produced by Harvey Weinstein. That day
(40:35):
felt like the best day of my life. Right, Oh
my gosh, I've gone from being invisible in this workspace
to speaks this guy, this is the guy that everyone
told this is the guy, right, and thinking, wow, big
breaks do happen, wonderful And now I'm kind of back
into the identity. Right, I'm about to be a talk
show host out here my title it's back. And then
(40:59):
one day I got a call that his name was
being mentioned along the lines of the word someone. The
person actually said the R word, and I said retirement
and because I have not, and they said fortunately, no,
yeah exactly, And I said what now everything is like, oh,
(41:27):
I had at the time already met my now husband,
because when I agreed to executive produce the show with
Harvey Weinstein, there were a lot of like just ebbs
and flows and just just things that were happening. Now.
I know he was under investigation, but there were these
inconsistencies that made me not feel certain. Nothing behaviorally toward me,
(41:50):
but just like so just weird energy. You know, when
you're like, this is weird energy around here, and I
didn't know what it was. And I remember throwing myself
this hitting party because I was in LA And as
you know, when you go into business with somebody, reach
an agreement, they're going to give you X amount of
dollars to hold exclusive rights to whatever you're doing, so
it's like a holding fee or whatever. And he was
(42:13):
slow on that payment, and I'm like, I need my money,
here's my money. What's going on here? So now I'm
feeling like, oh, this guy sold me a bill of
goods and this show's never going to happen, and I'm sad, sad, sad.
And then I went out to the pool at the
Sunset Marquee. I was actually supposed to stay at another
hotel because I told my travelation at the time, I
(42:33):
want to stay where they are, like, guys, I want
somewhere with a cute bars. I'm single and I am
ready to date and you know, move on my life.
He puts me up at a hotel and everyone there
is like a twenty year old wrapper, and I'm like,
because twenty year olds are wrapper, this is not my scene,
not my scene. So he put me up at Sunset
(42:53):
Marquee only because he's like, it's a great hotel. I
was like, all right, fine it because I'd given up
on dating at that point. Now between the hotel in
the five minutes, I thought that was the deal breaker
for you. I'm in the room. I throw myself a
proper pity party, and then I went to the hotel cool.
I have, like I put a one piece on, so
(43:14):
clearly I wasn't trying to bring any kind of a game.
I was done at that point. I got to the
school and I looked up and walking toward me is Steven.
And we'd run into each other many times at different events.
He you know, he's in the music business, he's a manager,
he's worked with a lot of people. And he sat
down and we started talking. And I think because I
(43:34):
didn't have I just kind of got it to this
fitt moment with work and all of this, su I
saw this person and we're just talking and then we
started arguing over who has the best pizza in New
York and he's like, I'm a New Yorker, I know.
And then we agree to go on like a pizza showdown.
It wasn't nothing elaborate, it was no like it was
(43:54):
a pizza, and when I was back in New York
and whole turns out he had a place a few
blocks from min. I'm like, wait, what, this is interesting,
and we you know, started to hang out, and a
couple of weeks later we moved in and okay, I'm
furious as we were talking. That's why I laught. That's
why I laughed when you said it on my show
(44:15):
about you, like all the weeks I was like, wait, oh,
that's funny. So like, within a few weeks we started
dating and then going to the point that you asked
me my husband had no children, and he said he
always wanted children. He had his own childhood journey that
was complicated and complex, and he just never thought he
(44:35):
was going to be a dad or that he had
the skills to be a dad based on how he
was raised. And then I said, well, you know, I
love to look into this, you know, this concept of
us being parents as we're here now, and I think
that not having the pressure of the job had allowed
(44:57):
me to give my body grace. Had I had a
lot less stress, a lot less just everything. I felt
a lot less it about myself. To be honest, I've
never shared that with anybody. But I went through that
phase of just feeling it was like, this is now.
Speaker 1 (45:14):
It sounds like a real transitional time for you, and
so much uncertainty. Yeah, but I love that you are
by the pool and just letting it happen.
Speaker 2 (45:26):
But I'll hang out at an unattractive one piece, yeah,
and this and then this is what comes to you. Yeah,
And it came to me, it really did. And the
right person at the right time, under the right circumstances,
and for me, for me, you know. And we went
through multiple rounds of IVF, multiple and there were, you know,
(45:46):
some hard truths. And one day I was driving and
I saw this sign that talked about adoption and I
thought that was an the fifth I was like, oh,
this is it, This is it. I should you know.
This is the route. I'm not going to do this anymore.
This is the route. And I wasn't angry, it wasn't resigned,
it wasn't like, oh, I'll just stood up. It wasn't that.
It was like, oh, this is the sign. Like when
(46:07):
I went to the pool. It wasn't a negative or positive.
It was a sign. And I got a call that
things were looking good, and then we taped my pilot
for the talk show that next morning, and I got
(46:29):
a call early that morning that we, in fact I
was pregnant.
Speaker 1 (46:36):
Wow timing, I.
Speaker 2 (46:39):
Still kept that out. It was just crazy. So I'm
walking out of my pilot.
Speaker 1 (46:43):
I remember your pilot, I remember the first time.
Speaker 2 (46:46):
Pilot, and I am I'm pregnant, and I'm just like wow.
And you know, we kept a private for thirty two
weeks because I was a geriatric pregnancy. I didn't know
what that meant, and also I wasn't on daily TV yet,
and I wanted to protect my relationship my husband. I
wanted to protect my sanity. As you know, people will
(47:10):
you tell someone you're pregnant and you're like, oh boy,
it's gonna be hard to marry. Oh boy, marriage is hard.
And I get that sentiment of why people do it.
We're kind of just trained. It's like a rote thing
to say. But I am more conscious than ever of
how I respond to whatever someone is sharing with me, right,
and I wanted to just enjoy it. And then we
(47:31):
got a call thirty two weeks in. My team called
and said, oh, there's a tabloid that's about to say
you're pregnant. I'm like what And what happened was I
reserved our maternity room and you have to do it
under your name and someone had told someone and they
called our team and it almost made it, almost made
(47:52):
it almost made it. And it was funny way because
at the time that baby Shark song was like and
so I ran, I got this like actually dress I
had and I and my husband's like, what are we
gonna do? What are you gonna do? I was like,
We're gonna do Baby Shark. And then I had the
book in front of my belly and I was like
do do do do? Do? Do do? And then I
removed the book and then it's like a baby and
(48:13):
then it was like People magazine. You know how it
goes after that? Yeah, you know. I'm but I think
fast forward when I look at that. As I said,
the loss became a win and not with the talk show, right,
it became a win in love the way I think
I became a more present friend. I think sometimes my
conversations were one sided, and I know talk show hosts
(48:36):
are just born that way to have one sided conversations
because that much. But I just got a chance to
catch up with my friends and not talk about work,
and I know that work is what provides the lives
that we have. So I'm not like I grew up very,
very poor, So I'm not going to be that person
to say moody doesn't matter. But it doesn't. It's not
(48:59):
the total of happiness or our journeys. I've been both
sides of the conversation, and it's about perspective of what
it brings and what you can use it to do
good and help others. It's a complicated conversation, but it
is recognized that having that break from work gave me
love time, It gave me my child in so many ways,
(49:24):
and it gave me a rebirth, which was the show
back with the wealth of things I feel to offer
that I didn't have before.
Speaker 1 (49:32):
In your late forties. I mean, I was just talking
with EVT Nicole Brown and she just got married for
the first time.
Speaker 2 (49:39):
Yes, she met Oh wait wait, even their date that
he took her onto the theater happened right after she
came on my show. That's last Oh lucky to take responsibility.
Speaker 1 (49:51):
For Yes, you should, you absolutely should, but just like
talking about how society's timeline and just because you do
things later in life if it doesn't mean that you
are less deserving of love or motherhood or anything. I mean,
how have you felt about your experience with motherhood in
this chapter of your life? Being you know, an older
(50:12):
mom like you said you were a geriatric pregnancy, and
it just.
Speaker 2 (50:16):
Hit me hard. And I'm sorry, I just I think
it's amazing. I love it. No, I got to tell you,
wisdom has been an interesting thing for me lately. For
so long, a lot of young women, not just with
the pregnancy, but with the career rebirth. Oh my god,
I look up to you, and I didn't know how
(50:36):
to accept that. Not that I felt like they were
saying that I was old. I just never felt wise.
I never felt like I was like, really me because
I can't relate. I just like, you know, okay, well thanks,
I don't know what I did, you know, Or when
people say you're so courageous and I'm like, well, what
was I going to do? You know? And so I've
recently tried to step out of body and understand what
(51:00):
they see. Oh my gosh, I've been doing the same.
Oh right, that's where as I'm like, it must be
our age.
Speaker 1 (51:07):
If I'm about to turn fifty three.
Speaker 2 (51:09):
It's our age because I've like, I got to step
out of this to understand what they see. Yes, and
it's not about running away from age. I just still
see myself as this trying to figure it out, you know. Yeah,
you know. And and so with being a mom, of course,
I've had some exercise on well, what would I have
(51:30):
been at twenty seven thirty there? And I can't conceptualize
it because I just don't can't live in that space.
But I have been so honored that not just late
to the party parents as I call us, but like
women in their thirties talk to me more openly about
freezing eggs. You know. Dulce Sloan from Daily Show, she
(51:50):
came on and she talked about like, and we've become
friends off camera, and she says, you know, freezing her eggs.
She felt shame because it made her feel like she
wasn't gonna get it right or whatever. You know. Yah,
and Ashanti just married Nellie and just had her first
child at forty three, and she frozen her eggs. When
they were broken up, She's like, I didn't even know
(52:10):
he would we were rekindled, but she knew she possibly
wanted this part, but she felt shame. Right, so much
shame attached to this, right we are in this. You know.
I have a girlfriend that I love dearly, and she
one day said to me with shame, and I could
hear in her voice, I never want to be a mom,
she said, Tam, And it's not in me. I haven't
(52:31):
had any trauma. I had a great mom, I had
a great day. I just I don't want it, okay,
And I said, okay, right, you know, And that's so
there's so much shame was surrounded with you do or
you don't.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Right.
Speaker 2 (52:46):
So for me, I have become more aware of womanhood
and motherhood being two different journeys, and supporting my female
friends on the womanhood journey and understanding that my motherhood
journey means something to my other friends. And so I
(53:08):
guess I'm in that space now. But when I look
at the parent I am now and I look at
the age I am now, I think again, it's like
that book, don't sweat the small stuff. I think I've
had enough time to know the bull. I don't things
out frazzle me as much as they used to. I
(53:31):
do care what people think. We all do to some degree,
but I have it in greater perspective of it. And
even you know, when I was writing this book, you know,
Harlem Honey, really was not me saying, let me just
put my name on something so I can get a
check or d d da da dah. Right, thing to
me means something to me I have. I'll try not
(53:54):
to cry here. But the two oldest living relatives I
have are both and they're in their chapters perhaps of goodbye.
It's an uncle who has been just a champion for
my mom and me. And it's my aunt who when
(54:19):
my mom's mom died when she was ten, I was
much older. She's much older than my mom, and my
mother tells the story of her bringing her clothes, you know,
to get ready to go to school in and being
a big sister but also a mother figure at the
same time. So it's our patriarch and our matriarch of
our family. And my mom is down a few days
(54:39):
from seventy five, and she said, yeah one day, and
she's very virile. She's go on her cruises and all
this sudden stuff. But she says to me, it goes
so fast. I knew her at nineteen. I knew when
she was a baby who sat out on this adventure
and this journey with faith and belief that she could
(55:00):
somehow figure out this better life for her and her kid.
And I'm the result of that. And so now at
fifty four, you know, I don't say this to chastise
the youth or to imply that they don't know or
you don't know. My nephew's twenty seventy calls for advice
all the time. He's like my kid. But you know,
(55:22):
it goes fast. And when you can learn that a
lot of the crap that people tell you really doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (55:31):
It is the fills up a lot of headspace.
Speaker 2 (55:33):
Though it fills up the head until it prevents. Creativity
blocks you from love, sometimes blocks you from loving yourself.
Oh yeah, it sometimes blocks you from just living your life.
And I have an eighteen year old niece who are
a door and she'll probably see this interview and wag
(55:54):
her finger at me, but she's, you know, I love
this kid, and she's not sure what she wants to do,
you know, And everybody's like you gotta do it, gotta that,
gotta do this, it's gotta do that, gotta it, and
it's like set aside your social media, it's just societal
pressures like to tell you gotta figure all of this
out by eighteen.
Speaker 1 (56:13):
What it's ludicrous. I feel you because my daughter, my
youngest daughter, is eighteen, and I feel there's so much pressure.
Speaker 2 (56:20):
It's so unfair. And I know we can point a
straight line to social media, but even before then, you know,
people like gotta go to college, gotta get into gotta
get if you don't, and then if you and then
you do all that at eighteen, and then by forty
it's like, okay, now you got a whole another It's
like we just fill our headspace with this stuff. And
so being Michelle Obama was on my show one day.
(56:42):
She was talking about menopause and she said, you know,
it's a blessing to get that far, you know, right right,
you know. And so whether it's that change in life
or the change that allows you to recognize that if
you can some your headspace with the views of others,
(57:02):
you will never find your path. That takes time. Because
age I didn't have twenty said, I thought I did.
I didn't know anything, and I'm okay that I didn't.
I'm okay that I did not know how dangerous it
was to drive one thy five hundred and twenty eight
miles with a dog and a map by myself. I'm
(57:24):
okay with not knowing that right deadline crime at the time.
I don't even like girls stay home, you know. It's
there's a certain amount of fearlessness that comes with I
think fearlessness in the twenties springs perspective, I guess for
me in the fifties.
Speaker 1 (57:44):
I think that's a big part of it. Like we're
able to step back, like you said, and like kind
of widen the scope, like really widen and see it
all and also just really see our journey and have
such this immense gratitude for the journey that we've been on.
And I think that just creates such a piece And
(58:07):
I I mean, we all know that leading with gratitude
every morning, thinking about what we're grateful for is going
to set you up for success for the rest of
the day. But this is just like full circle life,
coming back to great gratitude.
Speaker 2 (58:22):
I love that, and that's what I try to do.
You know, before I get out of bed, I literally
will lie in bed and I want my first thoughts
to be gratitude. I want the first thing that I
say in my brain right is something that is positive
and grateful and an opportunity to start it that way
(58:47):
versus some negativity about myself. You know, they always say
you say things to yourself you would never say to
someone else. You know, I want to start my day.
It's like, it's you know, the second best thing is
coffee for me, right, It's like I need that that
thought of gratitude, and it's and maybe when you're you know, younger,
(59:07):
you kind of think, Okay, this is what they're saying
because they've had successful lives or My mother again, was
a nineteen year old single mother, and I believe she
got to where she is now and raised the child
that I am as an adult is because she led
with gratitude. And that wasn't fame, that wasn't fortune, that
was doubts. She could have led with shame, she could
(59:29):
have led with you know, y means, she could have
led with fear. But she grew up in a town
where we didn't get a paved street until the eighties.
You know, she didn't have these things. But she had gratitude.
So that is not it's not owned by a race,
(59:50):
it's not owned by a gender. It's not owned by
one socioeconomic group. It is afforded to us all. And
I I think the best of the journey is when
you can fight the noise and lead.
Speaker 1 (01:00:06):
With that yes so true, before I let you go
tammeron hall. What was your last I choose me moment?
Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Oh, that's a great one. Oh my last I choose
me moment? Oh it was this morning. So yesterday I
had a very early morning and I had a very
intimidating thing that I had to face, and it took
a lot of I actually that shy kid and me
showed up yesterday and I had to deal with her
(01:00:35):
and do this event that I wasn't prepared for telling me.
So this morning, when it was time to wake up
and get my son ready for school, I fought mom
guilt as if one morning of not getting him ready
versus his dad was going to somehow change the trajectory
of his entire life. And I laid in bed and
(01:00:56):
I did it. Get up, and I let my husband
warm the care at my And not that he wouldn't,
but sometimes even when he's willing to will when he
does do it, and he does it every morning with me,
but I feel guilty fight when out there, like if
I'm not you know, right, give me the kiss, you know.
And I was like, my kid knows he loves me
(01:01:17):
and I love him, and I'm going to stay in
this bin. Have a good day, kiddo.
Speaker 1 (01:01:23):
Oh my god, that's a good one. Just stay in bed.
Speaker 2 (01:01:27):
I stayed in bed and it was delicious and it
was great. And now he is home and I can
hear him and we'll go to taekwondo and then I'm
going to drop him at taekwondo and then go to
dinner with my husband. But yeah, yeah I did, because
he's We fight that, right, We fight the fear of
this light thing that I do will somehow spell irel
into my kid having a horrible life. That's just not true.
(01:01:47):
And I didn't do it. So I chose that. I
chose shows me to stay in the bin.
Speaker 1 (01:01:52):
Yeah, you needed to refuel.
Speaker 2 (01:01:53):
I did. I needed in and it felt great. Well.
Speaker 1 (01:01:57):
I love talking to you. Thank you so much for
being on the pod, Jem, and I'm always here for
you if you need a guest.
Speaker 2 (01:02:03):
Oh, well done. Well if we start practicing, because I'm calling, yes, Paul.
They've never seen this coming.
Speaker 1 (01:02:11):
Two first chairs. Come on, have a great anniversary and
have fun at Taekwondo.
Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
I love you and thank you for the coming.
Speaker 1 (01:02:20):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 2 (01:02:21):
I love you too. Bye.
Host
Jennie Garth
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