March 1, 2025 • 51 mins
Once a cheater, always a cheater. Besties Thelma & Louise are sharing the mic with their real-life friend Jennifer who has been through hell and back.
From what she thought was her happily ever after, to an affair that tore her marriage apart, to how she picked up the pieces and found her I Do, Part 2. This story will give you faith that you can find love the second time around.
Plus, how she's befriending the woman who broke up her marriage...a story you have to hear to believe.
Email us at: IDOPOD@iheartradio.com or call us at 844-4-I Do Pod (844-443-6763)
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome back to I Do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's your favorite real life Bessie's Yes we are still
single is Thelma and Louise. But on this podcast today,
we thought it would be really interesting to pivot off
of our story and bring on another non celebrity gal
who went through some serious heartbreak out of her marriage,
navigated the dating world, and has found herself happily remarried,
(00:42):
living her amazing Chapter two. Welcome Jennifer. Would just like
to quickly point out that Jennifer and I have been
best friends since we were in high school.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
She ruled the school.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I wanted to be her and I still want to
be her because she has absolutely been I muse as
I've watched her gracefully, go through divorce, date like a fiend,
and now get remarried to the most amazing man. So Jennifer,
take it away, teach us what to do and how
we can live the life that you are living well, and.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Before we actually I want to interrupt before we begin.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I also know Jennifer through Louise, and I have not
known her nearly as long as Louise has, but have
formed a friendship with her over the last couple of
years and really only know her in her life today,
so don't know well, I've heard, but don't know a
lot about her history. So this is going to be
equally as interesting to me as it hopefully will be
(01:43):
to all of you listeners. Jennifer getting to your story,
take us back to the beginning and tell us a
little bit about your love journey and your chapter one.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Okay, first off, I just need you both to know
you could give my eulogy.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, let's hope you're not going anywhere unbelievable. We're not
doing life without you, but carry on.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
All right, Okay, in a like a cliff note version.
I was married young, but back then it didn't feel young.
So I was married, had two kids, fully in love
with my husband at the time, and after about six
years marriage, ten years together, we have two kids in
diapers and I wake up one day.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's important to give some color to the age.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
What age were you when you got married and how
old were your babies when all this was going on.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
So I was married at twenty six, I had children
at twenty eight and thirty. When I woke up one
day and realized the marriage was over, I had an
eleven month old.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And one and a half year old, right, yes.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, so I had like a two and an eleven
month old.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah, so that's definitely the clipnote version. Take us back
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
How was your marriage so prior.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
To I would say it was a healthy relationship that
had its normal problems, certainly nothing that I ever saw coming.
That we were you know that we were done. But
when you go through a process like that throughout the
next months and years, you start things start to click
(03:27):
and you go, oh, okay, I'm reading now I understand
what that was where I didn't understand to look for
certain things at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But what were what were some of the normal problems.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Okay, let's see.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
So I have a pew, kids and diapers, and we
didn't have sex enough. We I wasn't emotionally affectionate enough.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That according to him or how you felt towards him,
that you weren't bringing me you know, this.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Was according to him, and why he left me, So
I you know, of course all those things. It's kind
of like when you're younger and someone a teacher or
a family member tells you something and it sticks with
you for the rest of your life. So now here
I am when I find out why he's left me
or his reason for why he left me, I'm now
(04:20):
all messed up in my head because I'm like, oh,
I'm not affectionate enough, I'm not emotionally available enough, we're
not having sex enough. So I was using all of
those is like why I wasn't a good enough wife
and why he left me? Did you think you were
having problems or were.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You kind of in la la land about it?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And we're completely surprised because everything you just said were
basically kind of complaints.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
He was blaming you for.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I remember speaking to one of my friends that I'm
very close with and telling her that I wasn't very
happy about how I was feeling. I wasn't I was
not sure what I was feeling. I just knew I
wasn't totally happy. And one of the things, the main
thing I thought was we have two kids, and diapers
were really busy, and right now some of our own
(05:10):
one on one relationship is going to be on the
back burner because here we are, like, you know, racing
around with you know, this one needs diaper change, this
one needs a feeding, like you just life is.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
It was hectic at that time.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, you don't always see yourself or your relationship, at
least in the short term. With young children, maybe is
the priority. And so it's hard to make sense. Is
this a relationship issue or just a time of life
change in our relationship?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, and I didn't.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
You know, I will take credit in maybe I didn't
give him the kind of attention he needed, but I
didn't know I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So you began to sense the you know, the unraveling
was happening.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But you know, everything had the babies, you just bought
that brand new house, and.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
By the way, there was no one raveling. That's the
part that was so crazy is that I literally was
like I thought I was going crazy when he basically
told me he was leaving, Well, he didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Tell me who was leaving.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
He gaslated you. He was a trainer and you.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Helped him through a relationship land what became his biggest client. Now,
as listeners, do we all see where this is going?
Speaker 6 (06:31):
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So let's hear it from you, Jennifer.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
So what happened? So to speak? Like how did this
bomb go off?
Speaker 5 (06:40):
So again, you know, I think a few months before
I found out, I remember being on a trip with
him and realizing that we weren't connecting. And the one
thing I always knew about our relationship was we always connected.
It just took a minute if we were busy with
our lives. But when we would go out to a
(07:01):
party or go out to dinner with a couple, we'd
come home and like regroup to our what our night
was like, even though we were experiencing the night differently.
And whenever we went on trips, we really bonded.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
And so we went on this trip and I.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Came home and I remember coming downstairs and saying to him,
we didn't bond on this trip.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
You were so distant.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Something wasn't right. I don't feel good at all. And
one of the things we used to do is play
rummyque and so I remember going upstairs and being sad.
And then he came downstairs and he had the rummy
que out on the kitchen table, like he was extending
an olive branch to our conversation.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So here I was thinking, Okay, he.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Acknowledges that we weren't vibing on this trip, and he's
trying to make better for it, and like, you know,
make make it go away, Like let's start from here.
So for me, there was no awareness of that he
was having issues with me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
But was he staying out? Was he coming home late?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Like, well, I guess when you are somebody who has
a day job as a trainer. He was home at night,
so it was the daytime that I would have no
idea to question where he was and all of that.
But there was one moment that we were at we
(08:29):
were at an amusement park and we ran into the
person that he had started to train when all of
this distance started to take place, and I thought that
was very weird that we ran into her, only because
if he wasn't with me at this amusement park and
one of my boys, then he would have been seeing
(08:51):
her to train her that day, so there had to
be some sort of awareness of what their day was.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I think at this point, let's just rip the band
aid off on that and quickly say that he started.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Having an affair with this person.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So can you tell us about how you found out
kind of what happened, how the explosion happened, Because it
was a shock, the babies were young. I watched all
of this, so why don't you share with our listeners
what happened?
Speaker 5 (09:24):
So I remember, you know, not to get like I mean,
I could tell you the day, and I can tell
you the time, the actual time of day, and what
I was doing in my kitchen when this happened. And
I remember it was probably the second or third time
in that process of about a month and a half
(09:45):
that I said to him on the phone, because he
was on his way to go train his client. I said,
I'm not happy, and it wasn't the first time I
said it to him. And this time, instead of him
gaslighting me, bringing out the rummy cue table, you know, game,
telling me nothing's wrong, he said on the other line,
(10:06):
neither am I, and those three words.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Right then and there, I knew my marriage was over.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
And I remember saying, you need to come home and
I and we need to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And I remember him saying to me, I.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Can't right now, like there were other priorities, which to
me was baffling, because how could there be anything else
important other than God forbid something happens to your child.
You come home after a conversation like that, And he
he finished his day or his client and then came home.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Obviously it makes sense now what he was doing. But
when he came home.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
I kind of grilled him like is there another person? No,
there's no other person, is there?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
What is going on? I don't understand?
Speaker 5 (10:57):
And he just told me that he wasn't happy, but
you couldn't tell me why he wasn't happy. And so
I can't remember exactly the chronological way it came about,
but it definitely, you know, lended itself to I'm not affectionate,
(11:18):
I'm not emotionally available, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
And again it didn't line up because.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
We I mean, we were celebrating our tenure together and
we kept the same anniversaries or as a wedding date,
so we were celebrating almost seven years of marriage, whatever
the years were. So for me, I couldn't make sense
of it. I mean I went so far as to like,
heck the vitamins he was taking? Like is he is
there something wrong? I couldn't make sense of it.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Well, because you would ask the questions, you'd ask the
poignant questions, and it sounds like they weren't He didn't
really answer them.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
He kind of put them back on you.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
That's what they all do, right, I mean, all these
men get caught, they they flip it around and they
say no, you didn't do this, or you didn't you know,
you didn't show me the love or the affections.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
They try to like deflect it. Did you did you.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Ever, like from when you found out versus you know,
having a weird feeling, were you doing any like snooping
or kind of searching around or obviously there was no
life three sixty or anything.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Well, so remember this is two thousand and two, so
we didn't have the same like texting hadn't even really
happened yet, so it was different. So the only thing
I could have done is waited for a bill to
come in the mail for credit card, and it didn't
even dawn on me to do that, so we didn't
(12:42):
have that kind of snooping around.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
However, I do remember, well, I.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Do remember seeing one credit card bill, but it was
after I had already found out, so it was irrelevant.
And it was flowers, and I knew they weren't for me,
but at that point it was just another like, you know,
pain in my heart, but I had already.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Known at that point, how did you actually find out?
Speaker 5 (13:07):
So he we had friends that we shared, but most
we both came to the table with you know, I
came with a lot of friends, and he came with
a small group of friends. And I always kept my
distance from some of his friends because I knew about
(13:27):
certain things that I just I always thought it was
a little safer that, like, they were his friends. Plus
I have so many friends, it was good for him
to have his own friends. But there was one friend
that I became friendly with, the wife and prior to
us splitting about probably several years before, they had had
(13:48):
a marriage miss miss like.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
They definitely had a moment hiccup.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
And while that was happening, my husband asked me if
the husband could live with us, and of course we
had the space, and he lived with us, and thankfully
they worked out their marriage. They had a young kid
in diapers at the time, and so living with us
helped him get back on his feet with what he
(14:15):
needed to do in his marriage.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So they are still together.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
And what happened was for about two weeks from that
day that he told me he wasn't happy, and me
trying to figure out, like, is this a midlife crisis?
There's not another person, he said, what is happening? What
is my role in this? What can I do to
make it better? He went and he stayed with a
mutual family friend and I about twelve days into this nightmare,
(14:45):
I get a phone call and it's from this couple
and the husband had told the wife, and the wife
was like, she helped us during our hardest times. Got
to know that she came and she said, he's having
an affair with this person.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Oh, were you sucker punched?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
It didn't surprise me, but it gutted me. So I
don't know. I mean, I knew there was an inkling
of something wasn't right with this person in him. But
when he told me that there was no affair, I
believed him.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I really did. I did not think he was a liar.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And you wanted to believe him, right.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
We all have that kind of voice in our head
where something just kind of raises the hairs on our neck.
But at the same time we choose to not want
to see things or we want to believe somebody's words.
Because your whole life, as you knew with young it
was getting blown up, you know, saying like, yeah, I
mean absolutely blown up.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
And one of the things I'll say is I also
come from you know, my parents now have been together
over sixty two years, and yes they've had problems, and
yes they've you know, I don't know everything that's happened
in their marriage, but I always I came from stability
of this, this, this example of two people that truly
(16:14):
loved and liked each other, and so getting cheated on
was like not in my repertoire.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I need to now bring something up because it's something
you and I have now since discussed and we look
at it differently.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Yes, I don't know if you know what I'm not.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I know what you're gonna say.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So when you met him train her husband, yep, Yep,
he was well finishing a relationship. Yep, it was still
in a relationship. And I always believe once a cheater,
always a cheater. And you said, well, he younger and
we were kids, and you know it's different.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
It's like no, no, no, no, no, that was his pattern.
That was still his pattern.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And quite frankly, when we tell our listeners what's going
on now, I think it's still his pattern.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And I don't, but I hear you and agree with
you what I would say, and I just as bad
as it is that it's like, oh, he was with
somebody when I met him. I was twenty one, and
he was telling me he was not going to be
with her anymore, and I said, I'm not going to
be with anybody while they're with somebody. But we did
(17:34):
form an emotional relationship in that process without things happening.
But at twenty one, you don't know better.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I wasn't a comment on you, no more me identifying
a potential red flag in him. That was maybe just
you know, in hindsight, you say to yourself, hmm.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It makes total sense.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
But I guess were you and I differ about the
once a cheater, always a cheater.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Is I do believe that I did, for you.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Know, the twenty years they were together, I did believe
that he really wouldn't do that. And I don't know
if he did or didn't, But I do believe that
as we get older and our relationships and life gets on,
I do believe that affairs happen for different reasons. So
you have couples, and I know some of them who
(18:25):
they're not.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
They're not sexually.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Involved with each other anymore, but they love each other,
so they stay together.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
For that reason.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
And one of the people in the relationship doesn't want
to have sex. I mean I've even said to some
of the people I know, guys and girls in this
situation where I'm like, if they did step out of
their marriage, it wouldn't be the same version of an
affair that I think what he did to.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Me at the time, there's there's you know, a lot
of ways to skin skin that cat.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
But so she hit the fan for you, big hit.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And what I remember watching because I think this is
kind of like really heartbreaking, bad situation. But what I
appreciated about you is you hit the ground running on
the dating thing. Now, it was probably a reaction to
the rejection and how you were feeling, and you wanted
to rip that bandy down quickly, and you were like
spinning and spiraling and you were literally juggling so much.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
But you, I think within.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
The first month on one on a date, multiple dates
correct a week later.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Wait, I want to take a step back though for
a second. I know this is maybe not a popular
thing to say, but Dan, you are a smart, capable woman,
and even if you did have two small children and
might have been, you know, in a fog raising kids
at the time, was there any part of you that
when you found out relief probably is not the right word,
(19:53):
but in a way like Okay, I'm not crazy, and
now I have to deal, you know, with this, and
at least I know, like because I think so much
of it often can be the not knowing and thinking
you're going crazy and so what do you do because
you don't have the information.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
I think that getting the information was an aha, not
even an aha moment, but a It clarified things for me,
But then it brought in a whole other level of
spitch for me that I couldn't. I didn't for those
(20:35):
two weeks, wasn't even thinking.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
About so like tell us, tell us more you know
about that?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Well, just now your brain is like, Okay, he's with
this woman. My kids are in diapers, she's going to
raise them.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Uh, you know I have to sell the house. Uh
what am I going to do?
Speaker 5 (20:53):
You know, my job doesn't make enough money, but I
love what I do. I just now have to kick
it into gear, like your life kind of last years
in front of you, Like what am I going to do?
And I've got two kids in diapers? And who's going
to want to date? Who's going to want to date
a girl with two kids and diapers?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Good point?
Speaker 6 (21:10):
How old were you at the time.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Do you know thirty one okay, I is so young?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yeah, uh, thirty one to thirty two okay.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So Louise alluded to the fact that you hit the
dating scenes. So in the midst of your crazy probably
you know, no, no sleeping and your mind going a
mile a minute on what your life looked like. Practically speaking,
it sounds like you started dating.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
I started dating. I slept with somebody probably the first
two weeks into this, and I remember it was so.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Bad, unlike her nun like friends Alma. Louise, Well, here's.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
The thing at but but you got to remember I
was with I was in relationships from like fifteen on,
so I never got to like sexually experienced. I was
experiencing a lot of different experiences.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
And how'd you like it? I mean, were you having fun?
Were you doing that and then going home and crying?
Or was it like Actually, so the.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
First point is the best I'm dating this guy.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well on just interrupt were your kids going back and
forth between both houses? So you had fifty percent of
the time to kind of.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
At the time before anything happened. It went seventy thirty
because we had to go through mediation and all that
before I was going to just give up more time
with the kids. But I did have parents who were
right up the street from me. So if it was
a Thursday night and I would let the kids go
(22:44):
to sleep, I and they, you know, be with a
family member or somebody who was in my home, so
it wasn't like I was leaving them. I was part
of the day, and then I could go out where
I didn't have to introduce anybody to them.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
How did you meet people, because did online dating even exist?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Yeah? Yeah, the only thing that existed was Jada and
Match and it was so so new. You didn't have Facebook,
you didn't have any of that. So it was just
Match and Jada and you couldn't verify.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You really couldn't verify people.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah, and when I well, the first date that I
had had nothing to do with any of these apps.
I in the beginning, I was being set up. And
this first day, this poor guy, he was so lovely.
He would if I had like something, a furniture that
needed to be moved, he'd come and move it. She
was so good looking, and he was younger than me,
(23:39):
and I'm not into younger guys, but this guy. It
was the first when we the first time we slept together,
I just started bawling in front of him. Sure it
was so awful because all I wanted to do was
be home And I remember as we started dating, he
(24:00):
slept over once on a week and that my kids
weren't here. And in the morning he said to me,
do you eat breakfast? And I was like, yeah, like
why and he's like, well, I don't know, do you.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know, do you want a breakfast or whatever?
Speaker 5 (24:17):
And the way I reacted to him, he looked at
me and he said, wow, if that wasn't here's some
eggs in a big.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Cup of get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And I was like, I'm so glad you get it,
Like yeah, like I want you out, I want like
nothing to do with you right now.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
And there's a part of you that wants to move on,
and like that's that's your right.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
You know. During the day, I think I was really
emotionally distraught, lived a rejection feeling all day long.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
So there was kind of a duality to your life
going on at this point, right, like totally all like.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
A major duality that is so beyond painful. In addition
to her you know, dealing with the fact of the
infidelity and a rejection and having to navigate dating and
still having heartbreak. There was another woman who was mothering
her children in diapers, very different than a fifteen year
(25:14):
old kid who's dealing with the stepmom. I mean, I
never got over the stories you told me, like I
was seeing red.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
And I was always so impressed.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
With how you stayed high when I would have want
to ripped, I would have ripped my child off of
her lap.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So you had a lot on.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Your plate that was painful, uncomfortable, unchartered territory. And I
just want to compliment you, Jennifer, because you always do
wow me with how you hat no genuinely the.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
One thing I would say that I've learned at looking
back on it and have some humility in I did
with some of these guys' heads, because I would get
a drink in me, see them at night and be
in it, and then in the morning I'd want to
be out of it. And I think I really messed
(26:05):
with their heads, and I think I hurt people and
used them, and at the time I didn't know that's
what I was doing, But looking back on it, I
definitely played a role in not, you know, behaving the
way I would want someone to treat me.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Do you feel like you did that because it was
again the duality of your life where it's like you
wanted the freedom and the lightness at night and then
the heaviness of the day.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Or do you feel like you inherently at.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
The time were kind of having trust issues with men
and just weren't going to ever let yourself or let
your guards down and creating a wall.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
You know, I didn't have trust issues with men because
I didn't. I only found myself in relationships. And this
is what's interesting because this is where your I do
part two comes in for you girls dating and not
that you don't know this, but I I realized that
all of these men that really were giving me their
(27:04):
attention and wanting relationships, I think they wanted the relationships
because I couldn't care less. I could take it or
leave it, and so that was what was attractive to them,
and that is why they were still in it because
I didn't care it, didn't need them.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
You were like the dude in the relationship I was.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
I was, and I didn't know it at the time.
I just now when I looked back on all of
those pieces of my life, I realized, Yeah, they wanted
me because they couldn't have.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Me if you were unavailable. You can't fake that, you know,
it's just it is or it isn't.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Yeah, So tell us about how you met your current
love and how long it took, you know, just briefly,
like you dated around.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
I dated for like, let's see, I dated for about
five years and then one day Father's Day and I
was coming home from Malibi.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
When I was in the back seat of my.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Parents' car, and out of nowhere, one of my parents said, oh,
so and so gave your number to this guy. And
I remember thinking, okay, whatever, I'll never hear from him,
so it didn't matter.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
And then I remember walking.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
My parents dropped me off, and I came into the
house and my health phone rang and I answered it
and it was this guy, and I was thinking to myself, really,
first of all, I had a BlackBerry, so he called
me on my house phone, which I thought was wild,
But then again, who gave him my number was an
older person, so they're going to go with the house phone.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
He's had a really good phone. And then we ran
on our first.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Date well, he's a babe, and he's funny.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
He's very funny, very relevant of humor, back kind of guy,
full integrity, more than I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
But it was a slow burn for you, which is
an obden because this is a lesson You're always trying
to teach me and to teach.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Thellman to teach other people.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Is you know, the slow burn sometimes has the staying power,
and it's the integrity and all of those kind of
characteristics which are so much more important than the immediate
butterfly or the whatever the spark you feel or the
things that you think are important that really aren't.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So talk a little bit about him, and it was
it was a slat.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
I remember when he.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Proposed to you, you were you had some pause.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
Yeah, yeah, And I knew I didn't want to give
the relationship up and if you say no, then where
do you go from there? But I also knew that
I wanted him in my life, and so I had
to really think about that. But it was, you know,
me to him that first night at dinner, he like
(30:01):
interrogated me. He's so bad on dates.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
But he was so funny. I remember going home, I remember.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Calling my mom in the car saying, yeah, there was
a great date.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
He's really handsome. I'll never hear from him again. And
she's like, why I said, I'm too old for him,
because he's ten years older than me. But at the time,
you know, he could have had, you know, girls in
their thirties, and that's just the real I was in
my thirties, you know what I mean, girls in their twenties,
and he you know, it's just a double standard. And
(30:33):
so I just thought I'd never hear from him. And
the next morning I opened up my BlackBerry and there
was a text that made me laugh, and I was like, Okay,
I'm into it.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I'm in this.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
And we always say how important laughter is.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's my favorite thing, so important. I mean, it's like,
and he.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Makes me he's funny. He's funny, and that is something
that like when somebody says, like, what are your favorite
qualities about him? You know, everybody's always alwayways, but the
funny And yes, I know he's handsome. I'm not discrediting that.
And yes, what I've ended up with him if he
wasn't handsome, I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't have gotten
(31:13):
to the next steps with him. But certainly that is
not what our relationship is about.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And it's been seventeen years, sixteen, sixteen years, And what
I have witnessed just in being in your lives, and
I know what you've also shared is his integrity has
continued every day because he really and I think it's
important to talk about how he really stepped up in
(31:39):
a meaningful way as a co parent to your children.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
And what really mattered to me he brought to the table.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
And you always say that I think what I'm marvel
at is that you obviously your first chapter was a huge,
you know, a huge pivot and in your life that
you never expected.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
But yet you have been able to.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Go on and date and get married and.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Having been, you know, through a divorce myself, I think
time is the greatest healer and everybody wants to expedite that,
and you just can't to a certain extent. But what
other things or advice would you give to people that
are struggling kind of post divorce right now?
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Like, what advice would you give to them?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
And what do you think helped you, you know, remain
open to finding love and dating again.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
Well, I feel like even though I always felt like
I was walking around with like that scarlet letter on
me that I was left. I was the girl that
you know here, I was at you know, a school
where all the kids in kindergarten and first grade and
second grade, and my kids were like everybody's parents were married.
And I always felt like I had this this like
(32:59):
this thing I was carrying with me that I walked
around during the day as somebody who was left. And
I think that was something that I brought to my
inner core.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
But I didn't present that on my dates, and.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
When I was one, you never did.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
But I carried it inside my core. And so for me,
I am a slow learner, so it took me, I
would say, just till COVID. So that's what four years
ago when it finally clicked that this wasn't.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
A me issue. I played a part in it of
all the.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
Stuff that happened through those you know, years of raising
my kids with him and having to go through that
very difficult process, but it wasn't a me issue. And
I always thought it was. I thought I was the
bad person in I wasn't handling it well. I was
creating more drama than needed to be and some of
(34:03):
it I was but I finally realized something clicked about
four years ago. I saw him at a parking lot
and it just dawned on me.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Oh no, this is a hymn issue.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
This is who he is or was, and who he
is with me, and I've allowed him to dictate how
I feel about myself. And I finally woke up that day.
I remember coming home going It's like I just purged
all that stuff I held about me and was able
to actually feel and work on me for the first time.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
That must be, I mean, so freeing.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
And it kind of segues, I feel like into our
next topic, which you may know what that is. But
in a strange turn of events, right, your ex husband
recently and did his relationationship with the woman who helped facilitate.
Speaker 6 (35:03):
The end of the home Wrecker.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're going to call her the HOMEWRECKERP stop stop sorry
home wrecker.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Tell us a little bit more about that and some
the irony here.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
I would say throughout all these you know, I call
it twenty years because really I think about it was
twenty years in this process of their relationship, and.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
There were times where the two of us.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
We always you know, we always did birthday dinners, graduations,
important things we would do together.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And you always showed up with a smile on your face,
and you were so mature and so gracious because you
did not want your children to suffer.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
And the truth is, my kids were going to pick
up on stuff regardless. I mean, there's only so much
we can hide from our kids, and depending on their age.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
I was lucky that my kids were the age they were,
so I.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Was able to navigate that a lot easier than other
people we know who go through this with their kids
being of a different age. So I would say that
throughout the years, we were either hot and cold with
each other.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
There'd be times where my ex and I were fine
with each other.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
We're never great with each other, but we'd be fine,
and then there were times when we were not fine
at all. And I'm sure she had to feed off
of that and navigate and was also only hearing his
version of what was going on, although she was strivy
to the emails and the bullshit.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
That we did, but.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
She was coming from his place and she needed to
support him. But what I would say is I would
say to you, Louise, I would say like.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Well, you know, I could see us.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Being friends if we didn't have this situation, and you'd like,
out of your mind, like what, like that's not possible.
But I always knew that we had. We were comfortable,
awkwardly a comfortable renditions.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
I says a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
About you, because there are many women who are in
this situation that can't even be in the same room
as somebody. And it's just a testament to who you are.
But it's interesting because now that their relationship has ended and.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Life is full circle.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yes, and you know your kids have obviously remained close
to her because she did be you know, she was
a part of you know, parenting them for twenty years.
But I just find it so fascinating what is going
on with the two of you if you share their listeners,
because I think this is so interesting, and I think
you know, for people of experiences and maybe in the
(37:52):
throes of a situation like this, you know to see
how life can change and in the most unexpected circumstances, you.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Have a new friend and a new auty.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And and I also think please bring up to everybody
that like the story she was told was different than
what happened.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
It was different than the story he told you.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
Huh, And I think I think she We ran into
each other several months ago and we had a conversation,
and that conversation led into her calling me after the conversation,
like fifteen minutes later and having a little bit more
of a conversation, and then when I hung up, I
had said to her, if you ever.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Want to grab a drink, I'm available.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
And I think somehow within a few weeks later she
may have texted me and that was my opportunity to
basically ask her out for dinner.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Did you offer that as some version of a closure
that you needed or were you offering it to be,
you know, an ear for her to talk to.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
I think as a combination, because I had already made
my own closure, so I didn't need it so much,
but I would have loved if I was given that
at the time. And one of the things that she
said to me after our first dinner, our first.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Date, how many have you had now?
Speaker 3 (39:11):
I think four or five?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I mean, you're almost exclusive at this point. You're going
to join our girls dinner soon. You don't want to
sit her at a table with a few of us,
but go on, do your kids know that you guys?
Speaker 6 (39:21):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yeah, yeah, No, we definitely talk to the kids.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
The kids are too old to not know, and they
actually are very happy about it.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Does your ex husband know.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
Well, I'll share that in a second. But what we've
given each other is forgiveness. We've given each other a space.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
To feel.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
Seen and heard, and it's safe, hopefully to share the
pain we've both experienced, and that very few people can
experience that kind of pain.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
And I think it is been healing more so for
her to be able to have that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
But I also think it gives honestly, because she's heartbroken,
well we assume, we assume, yeah, okay, and she loved him,
And I also think if I were in her seat
and I would see that the beautiful life that you created,
you know, and the phoenix out of the ashes, it
would give me hope that I too can experience, you know,
(40:25):
another chapter after what happened to her, And I think
that that's part of it also.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
Well, and I think as a side note, do you
remember a couple of weeks ago you also said, oh,
we should set her up with this stuff, which I
was like, wow, I mean that if that is not
the kindest person I've ever met, Yes, but that's not
a light note, but more seriously, when Louise said, you know, Jennifer,
(40:52):
if that had happened to a lot of people your story,
never would they have been kind or welcoming or any
of those things to the X and the ex's partner.
But I think that I think that you are such
an example because so often the anger that we hold
(41:14):
when we are going through a divorce, we fail to
realize that it's like that anger is just a.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Cancer in us and it's punishing ourselves.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
And it's really easy to say, you know, oh, move on,
but it's like it's when that miracle happens that you
finally can let go and you realize that you're like,
I'm just punishing myself and keeping myself in this folding
pattern by staying angry and giving the other person and
the event and all of it like more at your time.
(41:44):
And I think you're such an example of how to
do it.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
And in the rear view mirror, it makes you really
subscribe to rejection is redirection.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
It really, it really isn't you know?
Speaker 5 (41:58):
I would say It's definitely shaped me for who I
am now, and I think I'm the best version of
myself to date, always room for improvement. But one of
the things I didn't mention was when I met my husband,
he is a product of this very same situation.
Speaker 6 (42:19):
So he came to.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
My life and opened up my eyes what it felt
like as a kid going through this.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
So he helped me navigate that place. He also helped me navigate.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
What it was like because one of the things that
I wanted was I wanted my ex do approve.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Of me, to like me. I wanted his wife to
or girlfriend to like me.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
And it's the same thing as I was saying with dating.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
If you want something.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
So bad, you're so not attractive and you're not going
to get that. And when I finally realized, when I
said earlier, oh this isn't a me issue, there was
nothing and I the only thing I was doing was
forcing something that they didn't want with me.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
But that was you trying to resolve probably the rejection piece,
right like, yeah, that was still trying you to kind
of get their approval and be lovable basically because you
were so you heart And what you learned to do was, basically, to.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Quote mel Robbins, let them and then let me right.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, Yeah, But that took me so long. Of course
it really did.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
Like I said, I'm a slow learner, but when it
finally clicked, I went, oh, okay, Like I wish I
could take back time and like apply it then, but
I just didn't have it. And Thoma, when you asked
me earlier, like what kind of advice would you give
in my business? I am. I am approached by women
(43:51):
and some men, but mostly women weakly with a situation
like this because some degree, whether it's about an affair
or a marriage not working out, or a relationship ending.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
And the best advice I would.
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Give for me is, and I've said this so many
times to people.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
In my office, is be kind.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
He You can be in a relationship and not be
happy and want out, but just be kind about it.
And I've said that so many people who are not
in marriages that are working, and I'll say to them,
just all I can offer is if you don't want
to be in this marriage and your partner does, be
(44:35):
kind about it. Because a marriage, if it's not gonna work,
it's not gonna work. But how you treat somebody at
the end of the.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Day you exit, it's how that is huge. And also
it's not the way it looks today is not the
way it necessarily looks five years, ten years, Like I
guess you know so, so you always need to act
with integrity kind of back to what you said.
Speaker 5 (44:58):
Yeah, And one of the things on our first date
or after our first date, she said to me, you
deserved a different ending. And that was something that really
resonated with me because it was like thank you now
you like at least it.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Was like the end in aha moment you needed that.
It was her version of an apology. So before we close,
I do have an important question as somebody who is
in a very day to day, uh you know, situations
with Ethelman myself.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
So you are.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Somebody who dated, successfully, tried on a lot, has been
in a really happy marriage. What advice would would you
give to us so that we too can get to
your kind of final destination?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
What are we doing wrong?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Like share with our listeners as somebody who's you know,
basically stepped through that sliding door and we're still we're
still where we are, Like help help us.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
I think it's less about what you're doing wrong. I
think I feel two different things with Louise.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I feel this is good.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Brace yourself up. I know you're comes the attack on Louise, and.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
I've said this to you, you need to give something
more time. I don't think you need to give something
time that doesn't feel good from the get go. But
when you are, you know you've met somebody that makes
you feel excited and looking forward to going on that
next date and that next date, and when you're with them,
(46:34):
you come back feeling really good. And when you're not
with them, out of sight, out of mind. I think that,
and I've said this to you, you need that push
of spending the night and waking up and going through
the awkward breakfast, right yeah, and like all of your quirks.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
And stuff more gray, not black or white, like you
have to decide am I going?
Speaker 6 (46:56):
Am I going ahead with this? Or am I break?
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (46:59):
Like, just be in it enough that you know that
you know, you really know that person intimately, not sexually,
but intimately before you know if they're right or wrong
for you unless there's.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
No feeling, I got it.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
It's just hard because the opportunity of having dinners with
Felma and Jennifer like we'll be doing in one hour,
is just it really lights me up.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I have to say, it's a very it's a very
hard expel. And what advice would you give me?
Speaker 6 (47:27):
I know what's my advice?
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Okay, So your advice is.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
I have noticed as we've gotten closer that you you
really could care less about putting yourself together and going out.
You'd rather put yourself together to go out with the girls,
And you'd rather you have a date and him cancel, and.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
You're happy about it.
Speaker 5 (47:49):
You are so true.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
That is not going.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
To get you out there meeting mister wonderful who gets
to appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
Now, I told you my brothers always said they are
not going to find you in your home near your pajamas.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah. And by the way, I mean like that last date.
I was just so happy you went on it for
forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
It was fifty eight minutes. Guys, it was fifty eight minutes.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Tell them when I said to you, so just quickly
and then we'll close up. So she had a date
last week, and we don't want to We want to
leave them wanting more. So we were going to cap
it at an hour five thirty, and then I was
going to swoop it again her at six thirty, and
then we were going to go hit a vault.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
Wait, let me first say, do you know what? Louise
initially said, Okay, well, just keep your seats at the bar,
tell him you're ending the date, and I'll just take
his seat. And I was like, oh god, I am
a lot of things, but I am not tone deaf.
I am not going to tell him to get up
so somebody could take his seat. I'm like, I'm going
to go out the back door or the front door,
(48:50):
and you're going to swing by and pick me up.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
But when I well I had said to her, was
I said, look, I'm going to check in mid date
and if you want to continue the date, you could.
We don't have to have dinner that night. So I
text her and I'm like, Yo, should I get in
the car. She goes, yeah, I'll be ready in five minutes.
Speaker 8 (49:04):
I was like, what traffic and she goes, all, i'll
pick you up because no, I'll walk across the street.
Our seats at the bar and she was perched there
and when I walked in, I felt like the prombling
her face lit up.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
You were so happy to see And.
Speaker 4 (49:19):
I got totally buzzed that night, because like I was
giddy when I met Luise. It was like I nursed
a drink with him and then I was like, oh
my night can begin.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
Yes, I definitely.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
So you see what you're connecting the dots here.
Speaker 6 (49:30):
I am thanks.
Speaker 5 (49:31):
I want you to get giddy when you see your girlfriends,
but I want you to make an effort to just
not a date a week, but just don't just set
your standards of like I'm gonna show up, I hit
the data week.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
I I am all for the data week.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
I understand. And by the way, kudos to you that
you guys can find that and do it. I mean
it's hard when two dates this week.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I'm very propsed to burn, but you know two days well,
I just have to tell you, Jennifer, thank you so
much honestly for coming on and sharing your story.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
It's it's very nice when somebody is willing to be vulnerable.
And thanks for sharing your journey and telling everyone our
listeners what you've been through. And hopefully it serves to
be inspirational for people who are going through it right
now and kind of a lesson that even if you
have a traumatic experience, you still can find your part two.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, and I just just one more thing to add
if you guys, as our listeners, enjoyed participating in Jennifer's
you Know story film, and I have a lot of
people with a lot of stories that would love to
come on and share.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
So, oh, there's so many people with these kinds of stories.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
We have a big crew people, so if this resonates
with our listeners, let us know.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
But the people who you know again, they're going through it,
but they also have a light at the end of
the tunnel. So if you are struggling with post divorce,
we would love to help you. Apparently I'm not be
the right person as I've just been given the advice,
but please call or email us, follow us on socials,
and all of the information will be in the show notes,
so make sure to rate and review this podcast. I
(51:13):
do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love
is the main objective.
Welcome back to I Do Part two.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's your favorite real life Bessie's Yes we are still
single is Thelma and Louise. But on this podcast today,
we thought it would be really interesting to pivot off
of our story and bring on another non celebrity gal
who went through some serious heartbreak out of her marriage,
navigated the dating world, and has found herself happily remarried,
(00:42):
living her amazing Chapter two. Welcome Jennifer. Would just like
to quickly point out that Jennifer and I have been
best friends since we were in high school.
Speaker 3 (00:53):
She ruled the school.
Speaker 2 (00:55):
I wanted to be her and I still want to
be her because she has absolutely been I muse as
I've watched her gracefully, go through divorce, date like a fiend,
and now get remarried to the most amazing man. So Jennifer,
take it away, teach us what to do and how
we can live the life that you are living well, and.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Before we actually I want to interrupt before we begin.
Speaker 4 (01:21):
I also know Jennifer through Louise, and I have not
known her nearly as long as Louise has, but have
formed a friendship with her over the last couple of
years and really only know her in her life today,
so don't know well, I've heard, but don't know a
lot about her history. So this is going to be
equally as interesting to me as it hopefully will be
(01:43):
to all of you listeners. Jennifer getting to your story,
take us back to the beginning and tell us a
little bit about your love journey and your chapter one.
Speaker 5 (01:53):
Okay, first off, I just need you both to know
you could give my eulogy.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Well, let's hope you're not going anywhere unbelievable. We're not
doing life without you, but carry on.
Speaker 5 (02:05):
All right, Okay, in a like a cliff note version.
I was married young, but back then it didn't feel young.
So I was married, had two kids, fully in love
with my husband at the time, and after about six
years marriage, ten years together, we have two kids in
diapers and I wake up one day.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It's important to give some color to the age.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
What age were you when you got married and how
old were your babies when all this was going on.
Speaker 5 (02:34):
So I was married at twenty six, I had children
at twenty eight and thirty. When I woke up one
day and realized the marriage was over, I had an
eleven month old.
Speaker 1 (02:49):
And one and a half year old, right, yes.
Speaker 3 (02:52):
Yes, so I had like a two and an eleven
month old.
Speaker 4 (02:55):
Yeah, so that's definitely the clipnote version. Take us back
a little bit.
Speaker 1 (03:01):
How was your marriage so prior.
Speaker 5 (03:04):
To I would say it was a healthy relationship that
had its normal problems, certainly nothing that I ever saw coming.
That we were you know that we were done. But
when you go through a process like that throughout the
next months and years, you start things start to click
(03:27):
and you go, oh, okay, I'm reading now I understand
what that was where I didn't understand to look for
certain things at the time.
Speaker 1 (03:35):
But what were what were some of the normal problems.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Okay, let's see.
Speaker 5 (03:40):
So I have a pew, kids and diapers, and we
didn't have sex enough. We I wasn't emotionally affectionate enough.
Speaker 2 (03:53):
That according to him or how you felt towards him,
that you weren't bringing me you know, this.
Speaker 5 (03:57):
Was according to him, and why he left me, So
I you know, of course all those things. It's kind
of like when you're younger and someone a teacher or
a family member tells you something and it sticks with
you for the rest of your life. So now here
I am when I find out why he's left me
or his reason for why he left me, I'm now
(04:20):
all messed up in my head because I'm like, oh,
I'm not affectionate enough, I'm not emotionally available enough, we're
not having sex enough. So I was using all of
those is like why I wasn't a good enough wife
and why he left me? Did you think you were
having problems or were.
Speaker 1 (04:36):
You kind of in la la land about it?
Speaker 2 (04:39):
And we're completely surprised because everything you just said were
basically kind of complaints.
Speaker 1 (04:45):
He was blaming you for.
Speaker 5 (04:47):
I remember speaking to one of my friends that I'm
very close with and telling her that I wasn't very
happy about how I was feeling. I wasn't I was
not sure what I was feeling. I just knew I
wasn't totally happy. And one of the things, the main
thing I thought was we have two kids, and diapers
were really busy, and right now some of our own
(05:10):
one on one relationship is going to be on the
back burner because here we are, like, you know, racing
around with you know, this one needs diaper change, this
one needs a feeding, like you just life is.
Speaker 3 (05:24):
It was hectic at that time.
Speaker 4 (05:26):
Yeah, you don't always see yourself or your relationship, at
least in the short term. With young children, maybe is
the priority. And so it's hard to make sense. Is
this a relationship issue or just a time of life
change in our relationship?
Speaker 3 (05:40):
Yeah, and I didn't.
Speaker 5 (05:41):
You know, I will take credit in maybe I didn't
give him the kind of attention he needed, but I
didn't know I wasn't.
Speaker 1 (05:51):
So you began to sense the you know, the unraveling
was happening.
Speaker 2 (05:56):
But you know, everything had the babies, you just bought
that brand new house, and.
Speaker 5 (06:01):
By the way, there was no one raveling. That's the
part that was so crazy is that I literally was
like I thought I was going crazy when he basically
told me he was leaving, Well, he didn't.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Tell me who was leaving.
Speaker 1 (06:15):
He gaslated you. He was a trainer and you.
Speaker 2 (06:21):
Helped him through a relationship land what became his biggest client. Now,
as listeners, do we all see where this is going?
Speaker 6 (06:31):
Probably not.
Speaker 1 (06:32):
So let's hear it from you, Jennifer.
Speaker 6 (06:35):
So what happened? So to speak? Like how did this
bomb go off?
Speaker 5 (06:40):
So again, you know, I think a few months before
I found out, I remember being on a trip with
him and realizing that we weren't connecting. And the one
thing I always knew about our relationship was we always connected.
It just took a minute if we were busy with
our lives. But when we would go out to a
(07:01):
party or go out to dinner with a couple, we'd
come home and like regroup to our what our night
was like, even though we were experiencing the night differently.
And whenever we went on trips, we really bonded.
Speaker 3 (07:14):
And so we went on this trip and I.
Speaker 5 (07:16):
Came home and I remember coming downstairs and saying to him,
we didn't bond on this trip.
Speaker 3 (07:23):
You were so distant.
Speaker 5 (07:24):
Something wasn't right. I don't feel good at all. And
one of the things we used to do is play
rummyque and so I remember going upstairs and being sad.
And then he came downstairs and he had the rummy
que out on the kitchen table, like he was extending
an olive branch to our conversation.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
So here I was thinking, Okay, he.
Speaker 5 (07:45):
Acknowledges that we weren't vibing on this trip, and he's
trying to make better for it, and like, you know,
make make it go away, Like let's start from here.
So for me, there was no awareness of that he
was having issues with me.
Speaker 1 (08:03):
But was he staying out? Was he coming home late?
Speaker 5 (08:06):
Like, well, I guess when you are somebody who has
a day job as a trainer. He was home at night,
so it was the daytime that I would have no
idea to question where he was and all of that.
But there was one moment that we were at we
(08:29):
were at an amusement park and we ran into the
person that he had started to train when all of
this distance started to take place, and I thought that
was very weird that we ran into her, only because
if he wasn't with me at this amusement park and
one of my boys, then he would have been seeing
(08:51):
her to train her that day, so there had to
be some sort of awareness of what their day was.
Speaker 2 (08:59):
I think at this point, let's just rip the band
aid off on that and quickly say that he started.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Having an affair with this person.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
So can you tell us about how you found out
kind of what happened, how the explosion happened, Because it
was a shock, the babies were young. I watched all
of this, so why don't you share with our listeners
what happened?
Speaker 5 (09:24):
So I remember, you know, not to get like I mean,
I could tell you the day, and I can tell
you the time, the actual time of day, and what
I was doing in my kitchen when this happened. And
I remember it was probably the second or third time
in that process of about a month and a half
(09:45):
that I said to him on the phone, because he
was on his way to go train his client. I said,
I'm not happy, and it wasn't the first time I
said it to him. And this time, instead of him
gaslighting me, bringing out the rummy cue table, you know, game,
telling me nothing's wrong, he said on the other line,
(10:06):
neither am I, and those three words.
Speaker 3 (10:09):
Right then and there, I knew my marriage was over.
Speaker 5 (10:14):
And I remember saying, you need to come home and
I and we need to talk about this.
Speaker 3 (10:19):
And I remember him saying to me, I.
Speaker 5 (10:24):
Can't right now, like there were other priorities, which to
me was baffling, because how could there be anything else
important other than God forbid something happens to your child.
You come home after a conversation like that, And he
he finished his day or his client and then came home.
Speaker 3 (10:42):
Obviously it makes sense now what he was doing. But
when he came home.
Speaker 5 (10:48):
I kind of grilled him like is there another person? No,
there's no other person, is there?
Speaker 4 (10:55):
Like?
Speaker 3 (10:56):
What is going on? I don't understand?
Speaker 5 (10:57):
And he just told me that he wasn't happy, but
you couldn't tell me why he wasn't happy. And so
I can't remember exactly the chronological way it came about,
but it definitely, you know, lended itself to I'm not affectionate,
(11:18):
I'm not emotionally available, that kind of stuff.
Speaker 3 (11:21):
And again it didn't line up because.
Speaker 5 (11:25):
We I mean, we were celebrating our tenure together and
we kept the same anniversaries or as a wedding date,
so we were celebrating almost seven years of marriage, whatever
the years were. So for me, I couldn't make sense
of it. I mean I went so far as to like,
heck the vitamins he was taking? Like is he is
there something wrong? I couldn't make sense of it.
Speaker 4 (11:47):
Well, because you would ask the questions, you'd ask the
poignant questions, and it sounds like they weren't He didn't
really answer them.
Speaker 6 (11:53):
He kind of put them back on you.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
That's what they all do, right, I mean, all these
men get caught, they they flip it around and they
say no, you didn't do this, or you didn't you know,
you didn't show me the love or the affections.
Speaker 1 (12:07):
They try to like deflect it. Did you did you.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Ever, like from when you found out versus you know,
having a weird feeling, were you doing any like snooping
or kind of searching around or obviously there was no
life three sixty or anything.
Speaker 5 (12:22):
Well, so remember this is two thousand and two, so
we didn't have the same like texting hadn't even really
happened yet, so it was different. So the only thing
I could have done is waited for a bill to
come in the mail for credit card, and it didn't
even dawn on me to do that, so we didn't
(12:42):
have that kind of snooping around.
Speaker 3 (12:44):
However, I do remember, well, I.
Speaker 5 (12:50):
Do remember seeing one credit card bill, but it was
after I had already found out, so it was irrelevant.
And it was flowers, and I knew they weren't for me,
but at that point it was just another like, you know,
pain in my heart, but I had already.
Speaker 1 (13:04):
Known at that point, how did you actually find out?
Speaker 5 (13:07):
So he we had friends that we shared, but most
we both came to the table with you know, I
came with a lot of friends, and he came with
a small group of friends. And I always kept my
distance from some of his friends because I knew about
(13:27):
certain things that I just I always thought it was
a little safer that, like, they were his friends. Plus
I have so many friends, it was good for him
to have his own friends. But there was one friend
that I became friendly with, the wife and prior to
us splitting about probably several years before, they had had
(13:48):
a marriage miss miss like.
Speaker 3 (13:50):
They definitely had a moment hiccup.
Speaker 5 (13:53):
And while that was happening, my husband asked me if
the husband could live with us, and of course we
had the space, and he lived with us, and thankfully
they worked out their marriage. They had a young kid
in diapers at the time, and so living with us
helped him get back on his feet with what he
(14:15):
needed to do in his marriage.
Speaker 3 (14:16):
So they are still together.
Speaker 5 (14:18):
And what happened was for about two weeks from that
day that he told me he wasn't happy, and me
trying to figure out, like, is this a midlife crisis?
There's not another person, he said, what is happening? What
is my role in this? What can I do to
make it better? He went and he stayed with a
mutual family friend and I about twelve days into this nightmare,
(14:45):
I get a phone call and it's from this couple
and the husband had told the wife, and the wife
was like, she helped us during our hardest times. Got
to know that she came and she said, he's having
an affair with this person.
Speaker 1 (15:05):
Oh, were you sucker punched?
Speaker 5 (15:07):
It didn't surprise me, but it gutted me. So I
don't know. I mean, I knew there was an inkling
of something wasn't right with this person in him. But
when he told me that there was no affair, I
believed him.
Speaker 3 (15:23):
I really did. I did not think he was a liar.
Speaker 1 (15:26):
And you wanted to believe him, right.
Speaker 2 (15:29):
We all have that kind of voice in our head
where something just kind of raises the hairs on our neck.
But at the same time we choose to not want
to see things or we want to believe somebody's words.
Because your whole life, as you knew with young it
was getting blown up, you know, saying like, yeah, I
mean absolutely blown up.
Speaker 5 (15:51):
And one of the things I'll say is I also
come from you know, my parents now have been together
over sixty two years, and yes they've had problems, and
yes they've you know, I don't know everything that's happened
in their marriage, but I always I came from stability
of this, this, this example of two people that truly
(16:14):
loved and liked each other, and so getting cheated on
was like not in my repertoire.
Speaker 2 (16:33):
I need to now bring something up because it's something
you and I have now since discussed and we look
at it differently.
Speaker 6 (16:39):
Yes, I don't know if you know what I'm not.
Speaker 3 (16:41):
I know what you're gonna say.
Speaker 2 (16:43):
So when you met him train her husband, yep, Yep,
he was well finishing a relationship. Yep, it was still
in a relationship. And I always believe once a cheater,
always a cheater. And you said, well, he younger and
we were kids, and you know it's different.
Speaker 1 (17:02):
It's like no, no, no, no, no, that was his pattern.
That was still his pattern.
Speaker 2 (17:07):
And quite frankly, when we tell our listeners what's going
on now, I think it's still his pattern.
Speaker 5 (17:12):
And I don't, but I hear you and agree with
you what I would say, and I just as bad
as it is that it's like, oh, he was with
somebody when I met him. I was twenty one, and
he was telling me he was not going to be
with her anymore, and I said, I'm not going to
be with anybody while they're with somebody. But we did
(17:34):
form an emotional relationship in that process without things happening.
But at twenty one, you don't know better.
Speaker 2 (17:41):
I wasn't a comment on you, no more me identifying
a potential red flag in him. That was maybe just
you know, in hindsight, you say to yourself, hmm.
Speaker 3 (17:53):
It makes total sense.
Speaker 5 (17:54):
But I guess were you and I differ about the
once a cheater, always a cheater.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
Is I do believe that I did, for you.
Speaker 5 (18:02):
Know, the twenty years they were together, I did believe
that he really wouldn't do that. And I don't know
if he did or didn't, But I do believe that
as we get older and our relationships and life gets on,
I do believe that affairs happen for different reasons. So
you have couples, and I know some of them who
(18:25):
they're not.
Speaker 3 (18:26):
They're not sexually.
Speaker 5 (18:28):
Involved with each other anymore, but they love each other,
so they stay together.
Speaker 3 (18:32):
For that reason.
Speaker 5 (18:32):
And one of the people in the relationship doesn't want
to have sex. I mean I've even said to some
of the people I know, guys and girls in this
situation where I'm like, if they did step out of
their marriage, it wouldn't be the same version of an
affair that I think what he did to.
Speaker 2 (18:50):
Me at the time, there's there's you know, a lot
of ways to skin skin that cat.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
But so she hit the fan for you, big hit.
Speaker 2 (19:00):
And what I remember watching because I think this is
kind of like really heartbreaking, bad situation. But what I
appreciated about you is you hit the ground running on
the dating thing. Now, it was probably a reaction to
the rejection and how you were feeling, and you wanted
to rip that bandy down quickly, and you were like
spinning and spiraling and you were literally juggling so much.
Speaker 1 (19:23):
But you, I think within.
Speaker 2 (19:25):
The first month on one on a date, multiple dates
correct a week later.
Speaker 4 (19:31):
Wait, I want to take a step back though for
a second. I know this is maybe not a popular
thing to say, but Dan, you are a smart, capable woman,
and even if you did have two small children and
might have been, you know, in a fog raising kids
at the time, was there any part of you that
when you found out relief probably is not the right word,
(19:53):
but in a way like Okay, I'm not crazy, and
now I have to deal, you know, with this, and
at least I know, like because I think so much
of it often can be the not knowing and thinking
you're going crazy and so what do you do because
you don't have the information.
Speaker 5 (20:14):
I think that getting the information was an aha, not
even an aha moment, but a It clarified things for me,
But then it brought in a whole other level of
spitch for me that I couldn't. I didn't for those
(20:35):
two weeks, wasn't even thinking.
Speaker 6 (20:37):
About so like tell us, tell us more you know
about that?
Speaker 5 (20:41):
Well, just now your brain is like, Okay, he's with
this woman. My kids are in diapers, she's going to
raise them.
Speaker 3 (20:47):
Uh, you know I have to sell the house. Uh
what am I going to do?
Speaker 5 (20:53):
You know, my job doesn't make enough money, but I
love what I do. I just now have to kick
it into gear, like your life kind of last years
in front of you, Like what am I going to do?
And I've got two kids in diapers? And who's going
to want to date? Who's going to want to date
a girl with two kids and diapers?
Speaker 1 (21:09):
Good point?
Speaker 6 (21:10):
How old were you at the time.
Speaker 1 (21:12):
Do you know thirty one okay, I is so young?
Speaker 5 (21:16):
Yeah, uh, thirty one to thirty two okay.
Speaker 4 (21:18):
So Louise alluded to the fact that you hit the
dating scenes. So in the midst of your crazy probably
you know, no, no sleeping and your mind going a
mile a minute on what your life looked like. Practically speaking,
it sounds like you started dating.
Speaker 5 (21:36):
I started dating. I slept with somebody probably the first
two weeks into this, and I remember it was so.
Speaker 1 (21:45):
Bad, unlike her nun like friends Alma. Louise, Well, here's.
Speaker 5 (21:49):
The thing at but but you got to remember I
was with I was in relationships from like fifteen on,
so I never got to like sexually experienced. I was
experiencing a lot of different experiences.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
And how'd you like it? I mean, were you having fun?
Were you doing that and then going home and crying?
Or was it like Actually, so the.
Speaker 3 (22:12):
First point is the best I'm dating this guy.
Speaker 2 (22:14):
Well on just interrupt were your kids going back and
forth between both houses? So you had fifty percent of
the time to kind of.
Speaker 5 (22:22):
At the time before anything happened. It went seventy thirty
because we had to go through mediation and all that
before I was going to just give up more time
with the kids. But I did have parents who were
right up the street from me. So if it was
a Thursday night and I would let the kids go
(22:44):
to sleep, I and they, you know, be with a
family member or somebody who was in my home, so
it wasn't like I was leaving them. I was part
of the day, and then I could go out where
I didn't have to introduce anybody to them.
Speaker 4 (23:00):
How did you meet people, because did online dating even exist?
Speaker 5 (23:03):
Yeah? Yeah, the only thing that existed was Jada and
Match and it was so so new. You didn't have Facebook,
you didn't have any of that. So it was just
Match and Jada and you couldn't verify.
Speaker 1 (23:17):
You really couldn't verify people.
Speaker 5 (23:19):
Yeah, and when I well, the first date that I
had had nothing to do with any of these apps.
I in the beginning, I was being set up. And
this first day, this poor guy, he was so lovely.
He would if I had like something, a furniture that
needed to be moved, he'd come and move it. She
was so good looking, and he was younger than me,
(23:39):
and I'm not into younger guys, but this guy. It
was the first when we the first time we slept together,
I just started bawling in front of him. Sure it
was so awful because all I wanted to do was
be home And I remember as we started dating, he
(24:00):
slept over once on a week and that my kids
weren't here. And in the morning he said to me,
do you eat breakfast? And I was like, yeah, like
why and he's like, well, I don't know, do you.
Speaker 3 (24:14):
You know, do you want a breakfast or whatever?
Speaker 5 (24:17):
And the way I reacted to him, he looked at
me and he said, wow, if that wasn't here's some
eggs in a big.
Speaker 3 (24:23):
Cup of get the fuck out of here.
Speaker 5 (24:25):
And I was like, I'm so glad you get it,
Like yeah, like I want you out, I want like
nothing to do with you right now.
Speaker 4 (24:35):
And there's a part of you that wants to move on,
and like that's that's your right.
Speaker 5 (24:40):
You know. During the day, I think I was really
emotionally distraught, lived a rejection feeling all day long.
Speaker 4 (24:48):
So there was kind of a duality to your life
going on at this point, right, like totally all like.
Speaker 2 (24:52):
A major duality that is so beyond painful. In addition
to her you know, dealing with the fact of the
infidelity and a rejection and having to navigate dating and
still having heartbreak. There was another woman who was mothering
her children in diapers, very different than a fifteen year
(25:14):
old kid who's dealing with the stepmom. I mean, I
never got over the stories you told me, like I
was seeing red.
Speaker 5 (25:20):
And I was always so impressed.
Speaker 2 (25:21):
With how you stayed high when I would have want
to ripped, I would have ripped my child off of
her lap.
Speaker 1 (25:29):
So you had a lot on.
Speaker 2 (25:31):
Your plate that was painful, uncomfortable, unchartered territory. And I
just want to compliment you, Jennifer, because you always do
wow me with how you hat no genuinely the.
Speaker 5 (25:45):
One thing I would say that I've learned at looking
back on it and have some humility in I did
with some of these guys' heads, because I would get
a drink in me, see them at night and be
in it, and then in the morning I'd want to
be out of it. And I think I really messed
(26:05):
with their heads, and I think I hurt people and
used them, and at the time I didn't know that's
what I was doing, But looking back on it, I
definitely played a role in not, you know, behaving the
way I would want someone to treat me.
Speaker 4 (26:21):
Do you feel like you did that because it was
again the duality of your life where it's like you
wanted the freedom and the lightness at night and then
the heaviness of the day.
Speaker 1 (26:31):
Or do you feel like you inherently at.
Speaker 4 (26:34):
The time were kind of having trust issues with men
and just weren't going to ever let yourself or let
your guards down and creating a wall.
Speaker 5 (26:42):
You know, I didn't have trust issues with men because
I didn't. I only found myself in relationships. And this
is what's interesting because this is where your I do
part two comes in for you girls dating and not
that you don't know this, but I I realized that
all of these men that really were giving me their
(27:04):
attention and wanting relationships, I think they wanted the relationships
because I couldn't care less. I could take it or
leave it, and so that was what was attractive to them,
and that is why they were still in it because
I didn't care it, didn't need them.
Speaker 1 (27:23):
You were like the dude in the relationship I was.
Speaker 5 (27:26):
I was, and I didn't know it at the time.
I just now when I looked back on all of
those pieces of my life, I realized, Yeah, they wanted
me because they couldn't have.
Speaker 4 (27:37):
Me if you were unavailable. You can't fake that, you know,
it's just it is or it isn't.
Speaker 7 (27:41):
Yeah, So tell us about how you met your current
love and how long it took, you know, just briefly,
like you dated around.
Speaker 5 (28:00):
I dated for like, let's see, I dated for about
five years and then one day Father's Day and I
was coming home from Malibi.
Speaker 3 (28:11):
When I was in the back seat of my.
Speaker 5 (28:12):
Parents' car, and out of nowhere, one of my parents said, oh,
so and so gave your number to this guy. And
I remember thinking, okay, whatever, I'll never hear from him,
so it didn't matter.
Speaker 3 (28:26):
And then I remember walking.
Speaker 5 (28:27):
My parents dropped me off, and I came into the
house and my health phone rang and I answered it
and it was this guy, and I was thinking to myself, really,
first of all, I had a BlackBerry, so he called
me on my house phone, which I thought was wild,
But then again, who gave him my number was an
older person, so they're going to go with the house phone.
Speaker 3 (28:49):
He's had a really good phone. And then we ran
on our first.
Speaker 1 (28:53):
Date well, he's a babe, and he's funny.
Speaker 5 (28:56):
He's very funny, very relevant of humor, back kind of guy,
full integrity, more than I've ever seen.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
But it was a slow burn for you, which is
an obden because this is a lesson You're always trying
to teach me and to teach.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Thellman to teach other people.
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Is you know, the slow burn sometimes has the staying power,
and it's the integrity and all of those kind of
characteristics which are so much more important than the immediate
butterfly or the whatever the spark you feel or the
things that you think are important that really aren't.
Speaker 1 (29:31):
So talk a little bit about him, and it was
it was a slat.
Speaker 5 (29:35):
I remember when he.
Speaker 1 (29:35):
Proposed to you, you were you had some pause.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
Yeah, yeah, And I knew I didn't want to give
the relationship up and if you say no, then where
do you go from there? But I also knew that
I wanted him in my life, and so I had
to really think about that. But it was, you know,
me to him that first night at dinner, he like
(30:01):
interrogated me. He's so bad on dates.
Speaker 3 (30:05):
But he was so funny. I remember going home, I remember.
Speaker 1 (30:09):
Calling my mom in the car saying, yeah, there was
a great date.
Speaker 5 (30:12):
He's really handsome. I'll never hear from him again. And
she's like, why I said, I'm too old for him,
because he's ten years older than me. But at the time,
you know, he could have had, you know, girls in
their thirties, and that's just the real I was in
my thirties, you know what I mean, girls in their twenties,
and he you know, it's just a double standard. And
(30:33):
so I just thought I'd never hear from him. And
the next morning I opened up my BlackBerry and there
was a text that made me laugh, and I was like, Okay,
I'm into it.
Speaker 3 (30:45):
I'm in this.
Speaker 6 (30:46):
And we always say how important laughter is.
Speaker 1 (30:48):
It's my favorite thing, so important. I mean, it's like,
and he.
Speaker 5 (30:51):
Makes me he's funny. He's funny, and that is something
that like when somebody says, like, what are your favorite
qualities about him? You know, everybody's always alwayways, but the
funny And yes, I know he's handsome. I'm not discrediting that.
And yes, what I've ended up with him if he
wasn't handsome, I don't know. Maybe I wouldn't have gotten
(31:13):
to the next steps with him. But certainly that is
not what our relationship is about.
Speaker 2 (31:19):
And it's been seventeen years, sixteen, sixteen years, And what
I have witnessed just in being in your lives, and
I know what you've also shared is his integrity has
continued every day because he really and I think it's
important to talk about how he really stepped up in
(31:39):
a meaningful way as a co parent to your children.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
And what really mattered to me he brought to the table.
Speaker 4 (31:46):
And you always say that I think what I'm marvel
at is that you obviously your first chapter was a huge,
you know, a huge pivot and in your life that
you never expected.
Speaker 6 (32:02):
But yet you have been able to.
Speaker 1 (32:04):
Go on and date and get married and.
Speaker 4 (32:08):
Having been, you know, through a divorce myself, I think
time is the greatest healer and everybody wants to expedite that,
and you just can't to a certain extent. But what
other things or advice would you give to people that
are struggling kind of post divorce right now?
Speaker 6 (32:28):
Like, what advice would you give to them?
Speaker 4 (32:30):
And what do you think helped you, you know, remain
open to finding love and dating again.
Speaker 5 (32:37):
Well, I feel like even though I always felt like
I was walking around with like that scarlet letter on
me that I was left. I was the girl that
you know here, I was at you know, a school
where all the kids in kindergarten and first grade and
second grade, and my kids were like everybody's parents were married.
And I always felt like I had this this like
(32:59):
this thing I was carrying with me that I walked
around during the day as somebody who was left. And
I think that was something that I brought to my
inner core.
Speaker 3 (33:11):
But I didn't present that on my dates, and.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
When I was one, you never did.
Speaker 5 (33:16):
But I carried it inside my core. And so for me,
I am a slow learner, so it took me, I
would say, just till COVID. So that's what four years
ago when it finally clicked that this wasn't.
Speaker 3 (33:38):
A me issue. I played a part in it of
all the.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
Stuff that happened through those you know, years of raising
my kids with him and having to go through that
very difficult process, but it wasn't a me issue. And
I always thought it was. I thought I was the
bad person in I wasn't handling it well. I was
creating more drama than needed to be and some of
(34:03):
it I was but I finally realized something clicked about
four years ago. I saw him at a parking lot
and it just dawned on me.
Speaker 3 (34:15):
Oh no, this is a hymn issue.
Speaker 5 (34:18):
This is who he is or was, and who he
is with me, and I've allowed him to dictate how
I feel about myself. And I finally woke up that day.
I remember coming home going It's like I just purged
all that stuff I held about me and was able
to actually feel and work on me for the first time.
Speaker 6 (34:41):
That must be, I mean, so freeing.
Speaker 4 (34:45):
And it kind of segues, I feel like into our
next topic, which you may know what that is. But
in a strange turn of events, right, your ex husband
recently and did his relationationship with the woman who helped facilitate.
Speaker 6 (35:03):
The end of the home Wrecker.
Speaker 2 (35:05):
We're going to call her the HOMEWRECKERP stop stop sorry
home wrecker.
Speaker 4 (35:18):
Tell us a little bit more about that and some
the irony here.
Speaker 5 (35:23):
I would say throughout all these you know, I call
it twenty years because really I think about it was
twenty years in this process of their relationship, and.
Speaker 3 (35:36):
There were times where the two of us.
Speaker 5 (35:38):
We always you know, we always did birthday dinners, graduations,
important things we would do together.
Speaker 2 (35:45):
And you always showed up with a smile on your face,
and you were so mature and so gracious because you
did not want your children to suffer.
Speaker 5 (35:54):
And the truth is, my kids were going to pick
up on stuff regardless. I mean, there's only so much
we can hide from our kids, and depending on their age.
Speaker 3 (36:02):
I was lucky that my kids were the age they were,
so I.
Speaker 5 (36:05):
Was able to navigate that a lot easier than other
people we know who go through this with their kids
being of a different age. So I would say that
throughout the years, we were either hot and cold with
each other.
Speaker 3 (36:21):
There'd be times where my ex and I were fine
with each other.
Speaker 5 (36:24):
We're never great with each other, but we'd be fine,
and then there were times when we were not fine
at all. And I'm sure she had to feed off
of that and navigate and was also only hearing his
version of what was going on, although she was strivy
to the emails and the bullshit.
Speaker 3 (36:39):
That we did, but.
Speaker 5 (36:42):
She was coming from his place and she needed to
support him. But what I would say is I would
say to you, Louise, I would say like.
Speaker 3 (36:52):
Well, you know, I could see us.
Speaker 5 (36:53):
Being friends if we didn't have this situation, and you'd like,
out of your mind, like what, like that's not possible.
But I always knew that we had. We were comfortable,
awkwardly a comfortable renditions.
Speaker 6 (37:07):
I says a lot.
Speaker 2 (37:08):
About you, because there are many women who are in
this situation that can't even be in the same room
as somebody. And it's just a testament to who you are.
But it's interesting because now that their relationship has ended and.
Speaker 1 (37:27):
Life is full circle.
Speaker 2 (37:29):
Yes, and you know your kids have obviously remained close
to her because she did be you know, she was
a part of you know, parenting them for twenty years.
But I just find it so fascinating what is going
on with the two of you if you share their listeners,
because I think this is so interesting, and I think
you know, for people of experiences and maybe in the
(37:52):
throes of a situation like this, you know to see
how life can change and in the most unexpected circumstances, you.
Speaker 1 (37:59):
Have a new friend and a new auty.
Speaker 2 (38:01):
And and I also think please bring up to everybody
that like the story she was told was different than
what happened.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
It was different than the story he told you.
Speaker 5 (38:11):
Huh, And I think I think she We ran into
each other several months ago and we had a conversation,
and that conversation led into her calling me after the conversation,
like fifteen minutes later and having a little bit more
of a conversation, and then when I hung up, I
had said to her, if you ever.
Speaker 3 (38:31):
Want to grab a drink, I'm available.
Speaker 5 (38:34):
And I think somehow within a few weeks later she
may have texted me and that was my opportunity to
basically ask her out for dinner.
Speaker 2 (38:43):
Did you offer that as some version of a closure
that you needed or were you offering it to be,
you know, an ear for her to talk to.
Speaker 5 (38:53):
I think as a combination, because I had already made
my own closure, so I didn't need it so much,
but I would have loved if I was given that
at the time. And one of the things that she
said to me after our first dinner, our first.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Date, how many have you had now?
Speaker 3 (39:11):
I think four or five?
Speaker 1 (39:13):
I mean, you're almost exclusive at this point. You're going
to join our girls dinner soon. You don't want to
sit her at a table with a few of us,
but go on, do your kids know that you guys?
Speaker 6 (39:21):
Oh?
Speaker 3 (39:21):
Yeah, yeah, No, we definitely talk to the kids.
Speaker 5 (39:24):
The kids are too old to not know, and they
actually are very happy about it.
Speaker 1 (39:29):
Does your ex husband know.
Speaker 5 (39:31):
Well, I'll share that in a second. But what we've
given each other is forgiveness. We've given each other a space.
Speaker 3 (39:38):
To feel.
Speaker 5 (39:42):
Seen and heard, and it's safe, hopefully to share the
pain we've both experienced, and that very few people can
experience that kind of pain.
Speaker 3 (39:56):
And I think it is been healing more so for
her to be able to have that.
Speaker 2 (40:02):
But I also think it gives honestly, because she's heartbroken,
well we assume, we assume, yeah, okay, and she loved him,
And I also think if I were in her seat
and I would see that the beautiful life that you created,
you know, and the phoenix out of the ashes, it
would give me hope that I too can experience, you know,
(40:25):
another chapter after what happened to her, And I think
that that's part of it also.
Speaker 4 (40:31):
Well, and I think as a side note, do you
remember a couple of weeks ago you also said, oh,
we should set her up with this stuff, which I
was like, wow, I mean that if that is not
the kindest person I've ever met, Yes, but that's not
a light note, but more seriously, when Louise said, you know, Jennifer,
(40:52):
if that had happened to a lot of people your story,
never would they have been kind or welcoming or any
of those things to the X and the ex's partner.
But I think that I think that you are such
an example because so often the anger that we hold
(41:14):
when we are going through a divorce, we fail to
realize that it's like that anger is just a.
Speaker 1 (41:21):
Cancer in us and it's punishing ourselves.
Speaker 4 (41:24):
And it's really easy to say, you know, oh, move on,
but it's like it's when that miracle happens that you
finally can let go and you realize that you're like,
I'm just punishing myself and keeping myself in this folding
pattern by staying angry and giving the other person and
the event and all of it like more at your time.
(41:44):
And I think you're such an example of how to
do it.
Speaker 2 (41:48):
And in the rear view mirror, it makes you really
subscribe to rejection is redirection.
Speaker 3 (41:55):
It really, it really isn't you know?
Speaker 5 (41:58):
I would say It's definitely shaped me for who I
am now, and I think I'm the best version of
myself to date, always room for improvement. But one of
the things I didn't mention was when I met my husband,
he is a product of this very same situation.
Speaker 6 (42:19):
So he came to.
Speaker 5 (42:21):
My life and opened up my eyes what it felt
like as a kid going through this.
Speaker 3 (42:28):
So he helped me navigate that place. He also helped me navigate.
Speaker 5 (42:32):
What it was like because one of the things that
I wanted was I wanted my ex do approve.
Speaker 3 (42:38):
Of me, to like me. I wanted his wife to
or girlfriend to like me.
Speaker 5 (42:44):
And it's the same thing as I was saying with dating.
Speaker 3 (42:48):
If you want something.
Speaker 5 (42:50):
So bad, you're so not attractive and you're not going
to get that. And when I finally realized, when I
said earlier, oh this isn't a me issue, there was
nothing and I the only thing I was doing was
forcing something that they didn't want with me.
Speaker 2 (43:06):
But that was you trying to resolve probably the rejection piece,
right like, yeah, that was still trying you to kind
of get their approval and be lovable basically because you
were so you heart And what you learned to do was, basically, to.
Speaker 1 (43:20):
Quote mel Robbins, let them and then let me right.
Speaker 3 (43:25):
Yeah, Yeah, But that took me so long. Of course
it really did.
Speaker 5 (43:29):
Like I said, I'm a slow learner, but when it
finally clicked, I went, oh, okay, Like I wish I
could take back time and like apply it then, but
I just didn't have it. And Thoma, when you asked
me earlier, like what kind of advice would you give
in my business? I am. I am approached by women
(43:51):
and some men, but mostly women weakly with a situation
like this because some degree, whether it's about an affair
or a marriage not working out, or a relationship ending.
Speaker 3 (44:02):
And the best advice I would.
Speaker 5 (44:05):
Give for me is, and I've said this so many
times to people.
Speaker 3 (44:09):
In my office, is be kind.
Speaker 5 (44:13):
He You can be in a relationship and not be
happy and want out, but just be kind about it.
And I've said that so many people who are not
in marriages that are working, and I'll say to them,
just all I can offer is if you don't want
to be in this marriage and your partner does, be
(44:35):
kind about it. Because a marriage, if it's not gonna work,
it's not gonna work. But how you treat somebody at
the end of the.
Speaker 4 (44:42):
Day you exit, it's how that is huge. And also
it's not the way it looks today is not the
way it necessarily looks five years, ten years, Like I
guess you know so, so you always need to act
with integrity kind of back to what you said.
Speaker 5 (44:58):
Yeah, And one of the things on our first date
or after our first date, she said to me, you
deserved a different ending. And that was something that really
resonated with me because it was like thank you now
you like at least it.
Speaker 2 (45:15):
Was like the end in aha moment you needed that.
It was her version of an apology. So before we close,
I do have an important question as somebody who is
in a very day to day, uh you know, situations
with Ethelman myself.
Speaker 1 (45:32):
So you are.
Speaker 2 (45:32):
Somebody who dated, successfully, tried on a lot, has been
in a really happy marriage. What advice would would you
give to us so that we too can get to
your kind of final destination?
Speaker 1 (45:47):
What are we doing wrong?
Speaker 2 (45:49):
Like share with our listeners as somebody who's you know,
basically stepped through that sliding door and we're still we're
still where we are, Like help help us.
Speaker 5 (45:59):
I think it's less about what you're doing wrong. I
think I feel two different things with Louise.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
I feel this is good.
Speaker 1 (46:08):
Brace yourself up. I know you're comes the attack on Louise, and.
Speaker 5 (46:13):
I've said this to you, you need to give something
more time. I don't think you need to give something
time that doesn't feel good from the get go. But
when you are, you know you've met somebody that makes
you feel excited and looking forward to going on that
next date and that next date, and when you're with them,
(46:34):
you come back feeling really good. And when you're not
with them, out of sight, out of mind. I think that,
and I've said this to you, you need that push
of spending the night and waking up and going through
the awkward breakfast, right yeah, and like all of your quirks.
Speaker 4 (46:52):
And stuff more gray, not black or white, like you
have to decide am I going?
Speaker 6 (46:56):
Am I going ahead with this? Or am I break?
Speaker 4 (46:58):
Yeah?
Speaker 5 (46:59):
Like, just be in it enough that you know that
you know, you really know that person intimately, not sexually,
but intimately before you know if they're right or wrong
for you unless there's.
Speaker 1 (47:13):
No feeling, I got it.
Speaker 2 (47:14):
It's just hard because the opportunity of having dinners with
Felma and Jennifer like we'll be doing in one hour,
is just it really lights me up.
Speaker 1 (47:23):
I have to say, it's a very it's a very
hard expel. And what advice would you give me?
Speaker 6 (47:27):
I know what's my advice?
Speaker 3 (47:28):
Okay, So your advice is.
Speaker 5 (47:31):
I have noticed as we've gotten closer that you you
really could care less about putting yourself together and going out.
You'd rather put yourself together to go out with the girls,
And you'd rather you have a date and him cancel, and.
Speaker 3 (47:48):
You're happy about it.
Speaker 5 (47:49):
You are so true.
Speaker 3 (47:51):
That is not going.
Speaker 5 (47:52):
To get you out there meeting mister wonderful who gets
to appreciate you.
Speaker 4 (47:57):
Now, I told you my brothers always said they are
not going to find you in your home near your pajamas.
Speaker 3 (48:03):
Yeah. And by the way, I mean like that last date.
I was just so happy you went on it for
forty minutes.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
It was fifty eight minutes. Guys, it was fifty eight minutes.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
Tell them when I said to you, so just quickly
and then we'll close up. So she had a date
last week, and we don't want to We want to
leave them wanting more. So we were going to cap
it at an hour five thirty, and then I was
going to swoop it again her at six thirty, and
then we were going to go hit a vault.
Speaker 4 (48:30):
Wait, let me first say, do you know what? Louise
initially said, Okay, well, just keep your seats at the bar,
tell him you're ending the date, and I'll just take
his seat. And I was like, oh god, I am
a lot of things, but I am not tone deaf.
I am not going to tell him to get up
so somebody could take his seat. I'm like, I'm going
to go out the back door or the front door,
(48:50):
and you're going to swing by and pick me up.
Speaker 2 (48:52):
But when I well I had said to her, was
I said, look, I'm going to check in mid date
and if you want to continue the date, you could.
We don't have to have dinner that night. So I
text her and I'm like, Yo, should I get in
the car. She goes, yeah, I'll be ready in five minutes.
Speaker 8 (49:04):
I was like, what traffic and she goes, all, i'll
pick you up because no, I'll walk across the street.
Our seats at the bar and she was perched there
and when I walked in, I felt like the prombling
her face lit up.
Speaker 1 (49:17):
You were so happy to see And.
Speaker 4 (49:19):
I got totally buzzed that night, because like I was
giddy when I met Luise. It was like I nursed
a drink with him and then I was like, oh
my night can begin.
Speaker 6 (49:27):
Yes, I definitely.
Speaker 3 (49:28):
So you see what you're connecting the dots here.
Speaker 6 (49:30):
I am thanks.
Speaker 5 (49:31):
I want you to get giddy when you see your girlfriends,
but I want you to make an effort to just
not a date a week, but just don't just set
your standards of like I'm gonna show up, I hit
the data week.
Speaker 1 (49:45):
I I am all for the data week.
Speaker 5 (49:47):
I understand. And by the way, kudos to you that
you guys can find that and do it. I mean
it's hard when two dates this week.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
I'm very propsed to burn, but you know two days well,
I just have to tell you, Jennifer, thank you so
much honestly for coming on and sharing your story.
Speaker 4 (50:03):
It's it's very nice when somebody is willing to be vulnerable.
And thanks for sharing your journey and telling everyone our
listeners what you've been through. And hopefully it serves to
be inspirational for people who are going through it right
now and kind of a lesson that even if you
have a traumatic experience, you still can find your part two.
Speaker 2 (50:25):
Yeah, and I just just one more thing to add
if you guys, as our listeners, enjoyed participating in Jennifer's
you Know story film, and I have a lot of
people with a lot of stories that would love to
come on and share.
Speaker 5 (50:42):
So, oh, there's so many people with these kinds of stories.
Speaker 2 (50:46):
We have a big crew people, so if this resonates
with our listeners, let us know.
Speaker 4 (50:51):
But the people who you know again, they're going through it,
but they also have a light at the end of
the tunnel. So if you are struggling with post divorce,
we would love to help you. Apparently I'm not be
the right person as I've just been given the advice,
but please call or email us, follow us on socials,
and all of the information will be in the show notes,
so make sure to rate and review this podcast. I
(51:13):
do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast where falling in love
is the main objective.
Hosts And Creators
Amy Robach
T.J. Holmes
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