March 15, 2025 • 45 mins
Should your kids dictate who you date? Kelly Bensimon and Alexia Nepola are asking the tough questions to Dr. Hillary Goldsher that single parents want to know!
Are kids with divorced parents usually harder on the mom or the dad when it comes to dating? Alexia has a strong opinion!
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:14):
Welcome back to I Do Far Too.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's your celebrity mentors Kelly Bensamin from the Real Housewives
of New York and myself, Alexian Dapola from the Real
Housewives of Miami.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey Kelly, Hi Alexia, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm good?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
This is going to be a very very interesting conversation
with doctor Hilly culture.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I cannot wait. Yes, I ask you some questions. What
are you going to ask her?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, well, I have I have so many questions.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I feel like we can do like three, four or
five parts to this segment because there's so much to
talk about and so much to ue wrap. But for me,
it's always been like, why do women get it harder
than men when it comes to dating?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Why is it okay for dad to.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Date whoever he wants to date, whatever age they are,
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Everything is okay.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
But then the mom has like a really nice guy
that she wants to day and they give it a
really hard time. I have a problem with that. What
do you think do you think that's a good question?
Speaker 5 (01:10):
That is a great question, And I know that a
lot of people are going to want to know the answer.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, I mean, because you know, I know that there's
a lot to it as well, but I always think
it's just so much harder to be a woman, Kelly,
Like in my next life, I just want to be
a lie. I think they're having so much easier.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Well, because we're the nurturers, that's why. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well I love I love being a mom and being
a nurturer and so nurtures. But I always feel like
the dad, you know, is like we can get away
with anything, and if he has money, even more power
to him. It's like he's perfect, he's great. There's nothing
he does wrong as long as he provides right. So, okay, okay,
doctor Hillary is here, so let's just dive right into this.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hi, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Hi, it's so fun to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, so we're going to dive right into this, and
we have a lot of questions for you, doctor Hillary,
and I'm sure the viewers and the lists are very
eager to hear what you have to say about this.
So in your professional opinion, I want to know what
you think. Who has it more difficult? Is it the
dads that have been more difficult when it comes to
(02:13):
dating you girls? Or do the single moms that are
dating haveing more difficult? You know, as far as when
the kids are involved, right, Like, who do you think
has it hard or in the dating game when it
comes to dating post divorce.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
That's such a juicy question. There's so many levels of
that question to consider, so I'll unpack it. I mean,
I think, like at the top of the pyramid is intentionality, right,
it sort of depends on what the dad or the
mom is looking for. If you're looking for dating and
(02:47):
casual fun, maybe men have it a bit easier for
all the reasons in terms of access and the numbers
of women available younger, perhaps there's more of an ease
in that regard. But in terms of like trying to
curate a new connection and a new relationship, I think
(03:11):
it depends on the level of consciousness that each person
brings right post divorce, the way to cultivate a successful
relationship is to come with a new understanding about what
you're looking for, what you'll tolerate, what you won't tolerate.
I think that's heavy lifting, and in a way, women
probably have more foresight and resources to go through that
(03:35):
exercise to bring about things in their lives that resonate,
and men may do less of that post divorce. And
it's sort of stereotypical cliche, but I often see it.
So I think it really depends on each person's emotional
station in life, what kind of work they actually engage
in post divorce, what kind of level of as I said,
(03:57):
consciousness and intentionality. You mentioned the kids, So logistics around kids,
there's a whole other element that's true.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, I mean I find with my experience and as
a woman, I feel like just in general, it's harder
for the woman to date. You know, I think the
kids are harder on their mom. I don't know if
it's that they're being more protected or they you know,
live most of the time with the mom or she
has like that, you know, that mother figure role. And
I just think the guys dad's have it easier, right,
It's just like, you know, it's okay for like the
(04:27):
dad to day different girls, but you know, when it
comes to the mom, it's that we're judged differently. I
mean that's just like my opinion and not that i've
lived in. But you know, I have a lot of
friends that are divorced. In our dating and and that's it,
you know, That's what they've shared with me.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I think too, Alexi.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
It's also you know, it's I love that Hillary is
talking about Doctor Halley's talking about all the work and
and that is so important.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Uh. I think for children too, just from like seeing my.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Kids, they're you know a lot of children gravitate towards
the parent who basically is either they're blaming the parent
that is the one that's the nurturer, and they're celebrating.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The one that has the money.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
And so like I think, you know, typically the generalization,
like doctor Hillary said, is that you know a lot
of men, you know, have Wednesdays and Saturdays and the
women have you know, the majority of the time with
the children.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And so it's just natural.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
That you know, when you reliant on a parent, whether
they're the father or the mother, that person, that parent
is going to be the one that's not going to
get you know, the love. And you know, I know
for my own self, I mean I didn't have there
was no Wednesdays, there were no saturdays, there were no vacations.
It was I had a full custody of my children,
(05:52):
which I asked for just because I thought it was
the best scenario for my children, and.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It was really different.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
I mean, my children are older now, but when they
were younger, it was very, very difficult because I did
not want to bring them into a situation where they
were like, who is this person?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Are you my daddy?
Speaker 5 (06:12):
You know, it's like oh that little book like are
you my daddy? Are you my daddy?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (06:17):
And so, And I didn't want my children to feel
like that as well, like they needed to find a dad.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
That's not what I wanted.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
And even now my kids are, they're really looking for
a partner. So it's like the three of us, we're
like we're a trifecta. And there I mean sometimes I'm like, oh.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
My god, like the people that they like versus the
purple that I like.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
You know, it's like it's it's like very stressful because
they're like, this is the person for you.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And I'm like, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's a great question. So should we have our children
picking our partners?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Doctor Hillary? Should we That's a great question, Alexi?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, fine, I mean we want our children's approval, of course,
you know, because there are lives and there's such a
big part of our life and we want to blend
us families who want, you know, everybody to be happy
and get along. But is that even a good idea, right,
because at the end of the day, we don't really
have a say in our children's relationships. And our children
grow up and they make their choices and they you know,
(07:13):
choose and select their partners, and you know, they want
our blessing too, right, we want to like them also
and approve of them, but at the end of the day,
it just really, you know, it has to do with you.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I don't think we should give our children that power.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I do think we need to validate their emotions and
their feelings and respect their boundaries and all that. But
it's really the person that makes you happy, and whatever
they think they make you happy is really not what
you're searching for what you need.
Speaker 7 (07:37):
There's like the old old adage about how other people's
see other people seeing in and you know it's like
they're you know, it's like they always they say something like,
you know, people are blind, but the neighbors ain't.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Like the neighbors are not blind. And sometimes our kids
they have different interests because maybe like for example, they
might like like a man who has more money, so
that then they see that the man is showering you know,
us with money, and maybe that that they're like that
helps them feel more comfortable. But you know, friends and family,
(08:10):
they see when the person is the wrong person.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Doctor Hally, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, yeah, the red flags for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, they do know that absolutely.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
So there's actually a clear answer to this, which is no,
and I'll walk through why. But that doesn't mean that
the children aren't involved in the process of sort of
curating and extended dynamic with a partner that you're going
to introduce into your life. There should be a real
(08:39):
deliberateness about how you facilitate that. But in terms of
picking a partner, what I'm about to say is really critical,
which is kids don't ultimately want that responsibility. They may
tell you they do, they may try to embody it,
but kids don't feel good when they have quote too
much power over their parents. They don't want to run
(09:00):
the show. If we ask them, they're going to probably
say the office it. But later when they end up
in my office in like twenty years, they're going to
talk about the dynamic of feeling like they had too
much say in their family system. It doesn't feel good.
That feels disregulating. So setting the boundary of like, hey,
this is this is kind of mom's journey, and like
(09:22):
I will sort of date and get to know people
that I feel appropriate. I will make mistakes, I will
make connections, and like, when it's appropriate, I'll bring you
in and I'll ask your opinion about how and about
when and how often. And it's then that if kids
have feedback about like I really think he's amazing for
these reasons, they're like, I'm kind of seeing something that
(09:43):
makes me uncomfortable. That's a fair dialogue to have with kids.
But we don't want to put kids in a position
to feel responsible. It's like it's too much heavy lifting.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That's another interesting point.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
So if we and I agree with that, I agree that,
you know, I mean I have respect for my children's opinions,
but I don't, you know, make decisions based on their thoughts.
I mean, they're still even though they're twenty four and
twenty six, they are still my children.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
But what about when you're in the dynamic of like
blending the family, Because like when you're you know, I'm
fifty six years old, obviously there's going to be a
lot of men in the pool that I'm looking at
who have children, and what are your thoughts when like
all of the kids are kind of like at each
other's throats, and you know, like.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
How do like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's such a good question, and there's
no like formula to make it go perfectly, but at
least try to be in mind you slow, deliberate and
sort of curated about it. I would have an upfront
discussion about it, like I was just alluding to earlier
that like, this person's important to me, even if your
kiddos are twenty six and twenty four, you know, even
(10:58):
if they're clearly adults, and particularly when they're kiddos, But
either way, I would sit down and sort of be like, like,
this is going to happen. This person has become important
to me, and I want him to know you, and
I want you to know him. And he has kids
in the mix, and I want you all to know
each other. I want there to be some version of community.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I appreciate that, yeah, and I think you should go slow.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Also, I feel like the biggest problem with a lot
of relationships women and men is that they introduce their
so called new love or boyfriend or girlfriend too sue
to the kids. And sometimes the kids don't really need
to be involved so soon in the relationship. So that's
advice I could give, right to just go slow.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Alexia is absolutely right, even though we women or the
guy might be really excited and should envision this community
and you know sort of familial feel which is sort
of really an exciting notion that's post divorced and you
start imagining like some other paradigm that feels really healing
(11:58):
and lovely. But kids don't need to be involved at
the beginning. I mean, there's no particular time frame that
I would adhere to per se, but like I wouldn't
get into it for at least six months, is my opinion.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
What happens when you like the kids more than your partner.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
That's eppened to me, Like I love the kids, and
I was like, he's awful, but they're amazing.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
A sign to consider exiting, Yeah, yeah, right, awful.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
And you know it's like I feel like I'm like, oh,
my kids. There's one French friend, a guy that I dated,
and he had kids who are just were adorable. And
my kids still really really liked his kids, and but
he's just awful. So it's like, you know, that is
just terrible too, because I mean, you know, for someone
like me like I have since day one, the reason
(12:49):
that I got divorced, the fundamental reason outside of like
other things, but the fundamental reason is because I wanted
a family for my family, and I did not know
my ex husband was not He was a you know,
he's an incredible creative, but in terms of being like
a father figure and creating a dynamic family, he just
(13:10):
that wasn't that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
He just didn't have that tool in his tool.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
About just wasn't there, And so I was just I've
been constantly on the search.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
For fit.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Literally now it's fifteen almost fifteen years for just a
good human I can tell.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Where are they?
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Well, I mean you're bringing up something that's sort of
tangential to what we were just talking about, which is
that not for every woman, but for many women, that
sort of primitive edict for connection and family and community
and you being in search of that is completely lovely
and appropriate and can be blinding. When you're getting to
know someone, there's an apparent opportunity to build that community,
(13:52):
and we can like fill in the lengths to make
it okay for what we wanted to be without being
clear about what's actually happening. And so even though you
have that interest of curating that community and that sort
of family system, and you know, I said before six months,
whatever the number, is trying to be slow and deliberate
and intentional having those kind of conversations with your kids beforehand,
(14:15):
and to kind of get back to the point you
guys brought up if and when things aren't going well,
you know, the kids don't get along or they're not
interested in connecting, like deeply validating it. I totally get it,
Like this is fun for me, but like doesn't feel
that fun for you? Makes sense to me. This isn't
your family, This isn't you know, these aren't your siblings,
this isn't a step parent, and you're not invested Like
(14:36):
I am, totally what's something that we can broker that
feels okay to you? You know? Can we spend a
couple of hours once a week, right being able to
respect our kids' perspective. I mean some of this depends
on age. We can get into the nuance of that,
but respecting what it feels like as a kid to
be introduced to this new paradigm of people. For you,
(14:59):
you have compelled exciting feelings for kids, they have natural resistance.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Yeah, I think it's also some for me. My kids
really want me to meet someone. They want me to
meet someone special, not just anyone. They really want me
to have that you know, relationship. They know that I've looked,
I've been looking for that. They know it's something that
I've always wanted and I just never you know, found it.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
I was on a call with one of my clients
the other day and he was like, you didn't get
the memo Kelly of like dating the rich man? Like, no,
I'm sorry, I just didn't get that memo, all.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Right, miss that one. Miss that memo.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Sorry.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm
looking for a real connection. What about you, Alexey, what
are your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I think it's going to be easier for you now
that your daughters are older. I think it's harder when
they're teenagers, you know, especially for girls that they're permonal
and they're going through their periods, and you know, it
also depends on the you know, parenting styles, you know, like,
for example, if you're dating somebody that has children and
his parent and style is different from yours, it's really
(16:08):
difficult to blend families.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I'm not gonna lie. I've been through it two.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Times already, and I want to say that I haven't
really succeeded because you need both sides. You need everybody
needs to be involved, right like your current partner, his
ex wife, his children, yourself, your children. It's really really hard.
Like back in the day, for example, my mom was
divorced five times, so I had different men in my life, right,
(16:34):
But my mom always had it very clear and would
tell the men, these are my children, and we were
three brothers and sisters, and you have no say in
the way I bring up my children or in anything.
So I really never saw them as a stepfather or
as a father figure or anything like that. Because I
had my father. I was fortunate enough to have my
father involved in my life. So it was always like
(16:54):
my mom's boyfriend or my mom's man, but it was
never really involved in my life. Back in the day,
and this was obviously many years ago. Well, we didn't
have all this information and awareness and all this kind
of stuff. Even though my mom was a psychiatrist and
she was a very smart woman and she that's how
it works for her. It was like, these are my children,
and we lived with my mom, so it was my
(17:15):
mom's rules, and she never allowed her partner to have
any say in any decision making in our lives. And
you know what, it works for her. So it's something
that's very personal. You know, we can have I do
part one, two, three, four or five. We can talk
about the subjects forever because it's so complex and there's
so much too unpack, and it depends on the children also,
(17:35):
Like give you're the new spouse that comes in and
you partner, whether you were a cause of the divorce,
you know, the children are going to have resentment and
they're not gonna you know, welcome the person into their
lives and you can't even blame you know, the child
in a way. So it's just very very complex, you know.
But for you, Kelly, I think it's way easier now
because your daughters are older. You have a beautiful relationship
(17:57):
with them. They're mature, you know, they want you know,
our children learn from us, So you're I'm sure your
daughters are going to choose really well, you know, because
they had a really good example and they probably want
for you what they want for them. And what's going
to make you happier than having your daughters marry forever?
Right and find that man and you're gonna find them too.
You know, he's he's out there. You just have to
(18:18):
put yourself out there and be open to it. And
you know, don't involve your daughter so much, Kelly. They're
already adults. You know, they're going to figure it out.
They're going to have their relationships, and they're gonna make
their mistakes too, even though I know we want to
save our children and not make the mistakes, but they
have to go through it to and learn from it.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
I mean, I love my girls like I literally would
do absolutely anything for them, and I've proven that.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We'll both basically mom, we have amazing kids. But what
happens is that, you know, I'm also in my fifties.
Your children grow up and you know, and they they
make their lives and they do and that's what you
want them to do. It It's hard for me too
because I'm super overprotective and you know my situation, but
you know, it would be selfish with me, you know,
not to do that, and we have to look up
(18:58):
for ourselves and what makes us happy. And obviously you're
at a different stage in your life than your daughters
are just beginning. And like I said, I'm sure that
they're gonna pick that guy, the guy that they would
probably want you to be with, right, but that's what
they want. So that's the person they're going to choose.
And you're going to pick whoever, you know, whoever's going
to make you happy and checks off the boxes and
(19:19):
you're going to have, you know, that compatibility and whatever
it is you know that you're looking for. But I've
learned that we need to leave our children out of it.
I mean, it depends on the time because like the
doctor Hillary said, they don't have the capacity.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
We can't give them that responsibility.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
That's like a hard job.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
But then if it doesn't work out, I.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Mean, they're already going through children with divorce, parents already
have their own trauma and you know, their own things,
So we're just adding more pressure to them. So and
you know, I've made that mistake. That's why we hear
talking about it because you know, sometimes you know, we
you know, we do have to listen to them obviously
and validate their feelings and emotions. But at the end
of the day, we're the adults.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We're the ones that have to make that decision, not
let make it.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
I mean, doctor Hurley, I don't know if you know this,
but I called off my wedding four days before I
was supposed to get married. And one of them there
were many reasons why I called off the wedding, but
one of the biggest reasons was because my children were
just not happy and I we had gone away on
vacation and they just were so miserable, and I just
(20:31):
was like, this is not what I want in my life,
Like I do not want to live my life with
my children being miserable. Like I just don't want that.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
What are your.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Thoughts on What are your thoughts on on what I did?
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Wow, that's that's a power move. But look, I understand, uh,
to make such an enormous decision in your life and
to have your kids vocally and viscerally unhappy is and
almost impossible combination, right, And you know, we're talking about
a subset of what we were originally talking about, which
is the notion of sure not letting our kiddos pick
(21:09):
our partner, but once a partner is in our lives,
understanding their impact on our family system is really really important.
So of course I don't know the details, and I
imagine you'll have to tell me, but some of the
discomfort that was coming up for them must have bumped
up against some of your pre existing unconscious discomfort if
you eventually made that decision.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Oh, it was conscious. It was definitely not consciousness.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, I was going to ask you talk to Hilary's
one that situation, like what do you do? Like, let's say,
like your children are not comfortable with the new person
in your life and you're about to get married and whatnot,
So what do you do?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Like as a mom, right, what do you do? Do
you go ahead with it? Do you try to do
like a family meeting?
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And like some interventions, some therapy. I don't know what
is it that we can do?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Look, I think I mean, notwithstanding the four days before
part of.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
It that was pretty baldy Kelly, thanks Alexia.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I was like, this is not happening.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know, you have to go buy your gut, and
that's what you did.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Paradoxically, I would lean way in, meaning I would open
up a lot of space for their thoughts and feedback.
It doesn't mean you have to take their advice sort
of follow their line of thinking, but I would be like,
I'm curious, tell me more your opinion, your feeling, your
mindset matters to me greatly, Like I want to hear everything.
I would just invite the feedback and the dialogue just
(22:32):
between you and them, and then you have some work
to do, right, I mean, in Kelly, it sounds like
in your case it was clearly bumping up, intersecting with
existing concerns that you had, right and so in this case,
and you'll have to tell me if I'm right, but
in this case there were a bit of like truth tellers,
things that you were already thinking about consciously or unconsciously.
(22:53):
And so if that's true, that's one scenario, you know
where it's sort of like, wow, I haven't wanted to
look at these things and face these things. But it's
still important even if that's the scenario we're talking about,
to make that decision by yourself, to do the work,
to do the analysis, to talk to trusted others, a therapist,
a mentor, et cetera, to think about what are your
(23:16):
deal breakers, what are your non negotiables, What are the
dynamics that work for you, and what are the dynamics
that don't. And obviously dynamics related to our children are
going to be included in that analysis. There are often
scenarios where our kids are just resistant.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, I was going to say that too.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Absolutely, they don't want to quote lose us to someone else, right,
And so reticence is more rooted in their own understandable
trauma about yourself and now being replaced or their dad
being replaced or both.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
And those are also really valid feelings.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So yeah, to nameless.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Feelings and honor those and validate them, but still reserve
the right and model for them that you're going to
make your own decision if this person in this relationship
resonates with you. I mean, it's much more complicated in
terms of what it would look like playing out, But
that's sort of the headlines, right.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I love that you said that, doctor Hillary, because that's
that's how I think now. I didn't know that that
years ago, but what I've learned through my life lessons,
I feel the same about what you've heard right now,
h and I had, so my second husband, her man
had two adult children. Went about children because I always
consider them children. But they were already like over eighteen.
(24:31):
One was about to turn eighteen, and you know, they
resisted for the wrong reasons, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
But he always had it very clear.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
He said, listen, you know, she's not trying to be
your mom or your stepmom, but you have to respect her.
And she's your friend, and she's just gonna have that
friendal you know. And she's my wife and she's who
I love, and this is what it's going to be,
and you need to respect that.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
When you.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Know, when you're ready to go with your life and
select your woman and marry her, I will respect that
as well.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I'm going to make that decision. So you never really know.
And I honestly I was not the cause of their divorce.
I was nothing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I meant years later, but they still held on to
that resentment and so that resists.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And they never wanted to see their father happy. That's
really what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And they waited to that passed a wedding to tell me,
f you like, literally we were just buried him, and
that was the first thing they did.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So all of that resentment and can you imagine, Kelly.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
No, I cannot. I'm so sorry. It's awful, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
So at my wedding with him, my friend my friends
that were there said, Alexa, we never told you, but
his sons were crying at the wedding, and they weren't
crying out of joy. They were crying out of anger
that he married you. They were so upset that he
hadn't be like why, Like, all I did was trying
to make the other happy. And that's how it is
in every relationship, right. It wasn't like, I don't know
(25:51):
till today why those kids, you know, disliked me so much,
because you know, all I did was like, you know,
be a good wife, be a good like mother, role,
accept them into my life, give them love and respect.
I mean, that's how it was. I even worked with them.
So it was really really difficult for me. So for
me when I married Todd, I said, he had two daughters.
(26:12):
I said, you know what, I'm going to have zero
involvement because I was so hurt with you know, with
Hermit's kids that I said to myself, you know, I'm
not going to set myself up for that pain again.
You know, to like raise these girls to like be
you know, so close to them and love them so much,
and then God forbid it doesn't work out, and then
you know they're like, hey, like you know, I was
protecting myself. So it's really really difficult.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That's all I can tell you. I mean, it's you know,
my mom would say, you can get married and divorced
as many times as.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You want, but only have you can't have children because
the children are the ones that are affected. And then
that's when it comes to blending families. Like you know,
the responsibility really falls on the parents. You know, it's
up to them. They have to put all their differences
aside and say, you know what, we want our kids
to come out healthy, you know, mentally, so we need
to do this for them. Forget about what happened between
(27:03):
you and I, and you have to like, you know,
parent the right way, and you know, and it's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's hard to do it. It's easy to say, but
I know it's very hard to do it.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
You know.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
I think one of the things that divorce parents underestimate
and stay with me because this will tie back to
what you're saying, is the extended trauma of divorce on kids.
We choose to get a divorce or a divorce happens
to us, and then we get to move on with
our lives. We process that, we grieve, we have trauma,
(27:34):
et cetera. But we get to curate new relationships, new partnerships,
sometimes new marriages. This is a lifelong thing for kids
right there. Many of them are going back and forth
between houses and have to deal with new partners in
and out of their lives, and aren't naturally organically interested
sometimes in forming relationships with new partners. And when you
(27:56):
think about it objectively, that that makes sense. I mean,
it's important to the people and the partnership, but not
always important to the children. That doesn't mean we don't
try to curate something that's cohesive and courteous and polite.
But I think what we miss is an opportunity to like,
deeply validate the experience of the kids, even if they're
adults that like some version of like. I get that
(28:19):
this isn't fun. I get that you might have resistance
to this. I get that you might even feel angry
about this. You might even still have feelings of upset
that we're divorced in the first place. Even if it
happened fifteen years ago. It's an I see adult children
in my practice meeting people who are thirty, forty, fifty sixty,
who obviously are adults, but we're children of divorce that
(28:39):
are still processing the impact of it. Even if they're adults,
bringing in a new partner can be triggering to their
original trauma and they're sort of ongoing trauma and processing
of it. So while Alexi, I'm not saying that means
people should not get into new relationships and formulate a
new community, but there is a way to narrate those
(29:01):
truths that make the new partner more accessible and digestible
to our adult kids. And I think a lot of parents,
because it's so awkward and painful to acknowledge those truths
or to acknowledge that the kids might be either neutral
or not into it, don't have those kind of discussions
that sort of lay better groundwork to bring in new people.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
I mean, one thing I think was like the good
thing that I did when my when I got divorced
from my from my only ex husband, is that I
never spoke badly about their dad. You know, whether he
was available, unavailable, whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
He was doing. Those were.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
Those were things that they told me, and I didn't
engage in whatever they were telling me. I was like, oh,
you know, I understand, you know, listening to them speak,
but then I didn't. I didn't indulge them in any
kind of negative conversation. And so they're not used to
hearing or being a part of, like a negative narrative
(29:59):
with anybody that I am have you know, been with,
and so I think that they were just genuinely just
not happy. And it's interesting because after I got after
I after I called off the wedding, you know, I
obviously was around you know, a lot of my friends,
and they were, you know, the majority of the people
that I were, you know that were you know, giving
(30:21):
me advice.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Afterwards. They were saying that, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
I'm getting older and that I really need to settle
down and you know, find the right person, which I
understand and agree with, and they were they were just
you know, the common denominator was, you know, it doesn't
matter if the kids don't get along or if you're
their kids, his kids don't like you, or your kids
don't like him, It's about your relationship together. And like,
(30:47):
I just don't operate like that I like, I was
not raised that way.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I'm just not an East Coast I mean i am.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I've lived in the East Coast for obviously number of years,
but my my inherent mindset and upbringing comes from the Midwest,
which is about building a family.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Like, that's what I want and that's what I'm going
to get.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Well it unless I am missing a piece of the story.
It sounds like the things that your kids narrated for
you were truth for you. Also, Yeah, and so, and
I think we should make that distinction.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, I mean I always wanted them to. It just
hasn't worked out that way. But you know, I feel
like I'm like you too, Kelly. I wanted that, Like
I never wanted to divorce. I came from a family
that was divorced. I never wanted done. My brother's sister's
so married. So I tried, you know, so, but there's
you know, only so much you could do, you know,
for the kids. And I feel like, now my kids
(31:49):
are older, they get it. They're like, Mom, I understand
you know this that and why you made this decision
and why you did that. And you know, maybe now
that your girls are older, you can have that conversation
with them.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, you know, I just just I just interested.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
It's like my kids have been you know, I mean
they've been, you know, very supportive of whatever I've been doing.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
But I thought that was wild that like people that I.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Knew are just like Kelly, just like suck it up
and just like find a partner.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I'm like, you don't just find a partner like you buy.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Like to find your happiness in yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Like finding a partner is not going to make you
happy or fix your life or fix yourself.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
So that's but I think a lot of people think
that I know, well.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
A lot of women because they are women.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
The women that are married, so you have those friends
and will give you that kind of advice because I've
always been in a relationship. Then you'll have women that
never married or they're happily divorced and they're independent, you know,
financially and psychologically and emotionally, so they'll give you a
different kind of advice.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
But you have to focus on you, on Kelly, and
like what you want.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Yeah, this really feeds into the narrative that is old
but still is quite ubiquitous, which is the idea that
you are undervalued if you aren't in relationship, right, and
the fear that is in our sociocultural dynamics around women aging,
and so you're right to notice that this messaging doesn't
(33:12):
feel good and doesn't resonate. And I think it's incredible
that you've been able to stand up in the face
of it and sort of say, like, no, I'm gonna
I'm going to pick something that resonates. I'm going to
wait until I get a version of what I want,
which is exactly what you should do.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
And I think, I mean, there is a lot of
fear associated with doing things on your own, by yourself.
I mean, whether that's a male or a female. You know,
it is so much nicer when you can say there's
a pot, we're both putting it in and we're going to.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Create and build.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
You know, I'm building on my own, and there's something
very daunting about that.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Every day It's like it's.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Like I'm not only an entrepreneur in business, but I'm
an entrepreneur in my personal life too, which is a
very kind of daunting.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
You know, everyday thought that I have.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I don't mean to be negative, I'm just very realistic
and pragmatic. I mean, do you really believe you're going
to find that person that you can start building it
with them. Okay, listen, there's nothing like faith and being
positive and optimistic.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I'm not, but also that's my mindset.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
I definitely would love to have something with with you know,
my significant other, where we were doing something together and
creating like value, not not necessarily monetary value, but like
personal value.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, yes, personal for sure.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, because I mean we're not gonna have kids. I mean, you.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Know, from personal I agree. I think that that's a
really woman's you know, goal and wish and dream. You know,
we all want that, right, that's what we.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Own for Maybe I'm an optimist.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, I know, and I am too, Like you know,
we're in love with love and we want to have that.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I'm the only optimist in New York City.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, come to Miami because I feel like I've lost
my optimism and I'm super jaded because I live in Miami.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So I see you have media, you and doctor Hillary.
Speaker 6 (35:02):
Yes, I think it's important for us to sort of,
in my view, have been brazen normalize what Kelly is
talking about, which is formulating a connection with someone through
respect and emotional, physical resonance, and a version of safety.
These are all like requirements that are more appropriate and
(35:24):
more than possible. I don't want to misrepresent the truth.
There are many many women of all age ranges that
can narrate how difficult that can be. I'm not trying
to downplay that truth. And there are a lot of
reasons that, not the least of which is that it's
tricky to be an emotionally evolves man in our culture
because it's both required but round up town, which we
(35:46):
can get into if we'd like. But it's hard to
find a man that can stand next to you and
sort of giving these requirements that you are asking for.
Having said that, that kind of connection seems completely reasonable
to me, and you're doing such a service right now,
which is both pulling back the curtain. I'm like the
fear of like doing so much of this alone. It
(36:08):
is hard and lonely at moments, it is scary.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
It is yeah, not at moments. It is hard and
lonely period. Yeah, it is not easy. It is not easy.
I mean I won a date last night and he
(36:31):
said to me, you're so nurturing. He's like, I've never
been with a woman that's so nurturing. I'm like, I
haven't done anything. I'm just sitting at a restaurant. But
you know he was, I was just asking about himself,
and I genuinely am interested in like what he's doing
and you know how he feels and you know how
he's raising his kids. And maybe because of all the
(36:54):
work that I've done, not only with a therapist, but
just from working on with I Do Part two and
just meeting all the amazing women like you know, you
Hillary and Alexia and I mean just tons of women
and men that I've met. So it's just like I
just have a different perspective now than I did.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Definitely, you know last summer it's like nine months staying
nine months to heal.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Well, you know, we're work in progress, you know, so
long as we're you know, living and growing and learning,
it's it's all good for us.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
And I want to be a good role model for
my kids.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
And I want to be I know, I'm going to
make mistakes, and I really like that Alexia talks about
like her mother saying that there's gonna be mistakes and
you're gonna have.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
To watch it. And I really really embrace that.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
I think it's really important to acknowledge that people are
going to make mistakes and that they don't need to
be reprimanded or you know, like blamed or shamed because
they are not necessarily always doing the right thing at
the right time.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
You know, we're human.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
I just, you know, it's just been a very interesting
road for me, and you know, I really you know,
it's been it's been hard to with my girls, like
I just want I want everything for them, just like
Alexi as mom wanted for her, Like that's what I want,
and what Alexi wants for her kids, that's what I
want for mine. You know, I just want everyone to
be a big, happy family.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
What had what have been like your most Kelly, you know,
sort of critical insights and lessons over the last nine months.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Uh to be forgiving of myself and of other people
and really genuinely forgiving, not like I forgive, but I'm
gonna forget or like all these like you know, kind
of like housewives. Not nothing against housewives, Alexei, but like
you know, like when you're on Housewives, it's like you
have this kind of like you know, this this this
verbiage where You're like, I forgive, but I don't forget,
(38:50):
but like in my own personal Kelly life, just genuine
forgiveness for myself for the decisions that I've made.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeahs so hard on yourself. I feel like, as women
and moms, were always really hard on ourselves.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
So hard on ourselves, so hard on ourselves.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
And you know, you know, we've all been through a lot,
and we all have these you know, strong narratives and
we all want to you know, move forward and you know,
be the best version of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
But sometimes it's not always easy. When you know there's a.
Speaker 5 (39:23):
Clash or there's a conflict, or there's like something that's unexpected,
like you know, I mean, howful.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
And Alexia's her you know, children are crying. I mean
that's awful. I was like, that's terrible.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
I mean, particularly when we have kids in our sphere.
Being able to maybe not in real time, but over time,
being able to narrate. Yeah, this was whatever the this
is this calling off the wedding, you know, this divorce
was like tricky and painful and unexpected. And I felt
lost in despair and hopeless. And you saw that and
(39:58):
you felt that, and that had to be disorienting, but
that's like part of being human. And I have gratitude
that you were able to witness that. I mean, I
wouldn't wish that on me or you, but like it's
real to have suffering and pain, and I want you
to see that part of that is sitting in the mess,
being still with tricky feelings, not knowing which way to go,
(40:20):
being destabilized, being disoriented, and then climbing your way out.
And I think, particularly as women, we feel like this
primitive edict to model some version of like perfection or
chronic emotional regulation in front of our kids, and it's
not really a thing, And in fact, we're depriving them
of having a role model to like, oh, this is
what it looks like when things get tricky, This is
(40:41):
what it looks like when things are hard. Mom does
get sad, Mom does cry, and mom does make the
wrong decision. But what happens next She comes back, She
narrates it, She makes it less confusing by telling me
what happened. She gives me insight into how she's reconceptualizing
it and showing up different. That's what more can we
give to our kids, other than wishing that their lives
(41:01):
would be perfect. No such thing.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
I love what you just said, showing up different after
being communicative.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I mean that is so doctor, Hell are your genius.
She's like in my spare.
Speaker 6 (41:17):
Time gift we can give our kids save some like
you know, notion that we can make things not complicated
for them, since we know that's not a thing that
is that is our mission, and it relieves us of
the notion that we somehow can't be messy in front
of our kids. Yeah we can, and we should call
it out, raise our hand and said you see it,
(41:39):
you saw it, and here's what I've done about it.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
M I love that.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Okay, So I have two You asked me about what
was the one thing. So the one is forgiveness and
the two is just being accountable, personally accountable. So when
anyone asks me, whether that's you know, on our podcasts
or in general, I always talk about my responsibility for
what I've done or how I've reacted and what I'm
(42:07):
doing to be proactive about moving forward with my own
new narrative.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
And uh, you know, it takes a lot of guts
to do that.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
To be honest with you too, I mean you have
to remember, like it's not like I'm like with someone.
I'm still single and I'm you know, still open to
being accountable and being like, Okay, I did some really
you know, stupid things myself, but I know that there's
more to come, and I think.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
That all of that.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
I think that just like being able to articulate that,
whether that's you know, here or just with friends, has really.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Opened me up.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
And you said that a couple of times, doctor Hillary,
about really being open up, like giving yourself space for
all of those new feelings, those new people, those new
new relationships.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
That's just really, really, really very important for me.
Speaker 6 (43:05):
Yeah, And here's an unexpected paradox which you're describing, which
is accountability ultimately equals empowerment, an intense feeling of empowerment.
Right to say the thing I did that I showed
up in a way I didn't feel. It's niberating, and
it's compelling to other people. Nine times out of ten,
(43:25):
if not more, people are going to be compelled by
it and find you interesting and to find that story
to be inspiring. Right, the notion that like I own
how I move through the world when it's powerful and
amazing and when it didn't work and so I imagine
that it over like. That's part of why these nine
months had been a growth season for you is because
(43:48):
it starts to curate a version of like expansiveness and
possibility and like a sense of power and two things
can be true at the same time. All of that
can be happening for you, and you can still want
a partner to have intimacy and connection.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Thank you so much, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
Thank you, Alexi. This has been unbelievable. Your insight is
so powerful, Alexia. You are such an open force of nature,
and I'm so happy that I've gotten to know you better.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
No, thank you, thank you, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 6 (44:24):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Are you a single parent navigating dating post divorce? Maybe
you got teenaged at home and it hasn't been easy.
Speaker 5 (44:32):
But we are here to help. Call us or email us,
follow us on socials. All the information will be in
the show notes. Make sure to rate and review the
podcast I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
We're falling in Love is the main objective
Welcome back to I Do Far Too.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
It's your celebrity mentors Kelly Bensamin from the Real Housewives
of New York and myself, Alexian Dapola from the Real
Housewives of Miami.
Speaker 3 (00:25):
Hey Kelly, Hi Alexia, how are you?
Speaker 1 (00:28):
I'm good?
Speaker 4 (00:29):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (00:30):
How are you doing?
Speaker 3 (00:31):
I'm doing well.
Speaker 5 (00:31):
This is going to be a very very interesting conversation
with doctor Hilly culture.
Speaker 3 (00:36):
I cannot wait. Yes, I ask you some questions. What
are you going to ask her?
Speaker 1 (00:40):
Yes, well, I have I have so many questions.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I feel like we can do like three, four or
five parts to this segment because there's so much to
talk about and so much to ue wrap. But for me,
it's always been like, why do women get it harder
than men when it comes to dating?
Speaker 1 (00:55):
Why is it okay for dad to.
Speaker 2 (00:57):
Date whoever he wants to date, whatever age they are,
doesn't matter.
Speaker 1 (01:01):
Everything is okay.
Speaker 2 (01:02):
But then the mom has like a really nice guy
that she wants to day and they give it a
really hard time. I have a problem with that. What
do you think do you think that's a good question?
Speaker 5 (01:10):
That is a great question, And I know that a
lot of people are going to want to know the answer.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yeah, I mean, because you know, I know that there's
a lot to it as well, but I always think
it's just so much harder to be a woman, Kelly,
Like in my next life, I just want to be
a lie. I think they're having so much easier.
Speaker 3 (01:26):
Well, because we're the nurturers, that's why. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (01:29):
Well I love I love being a mom and being
a nurturer and so nurtures. But I always feel like
the dad, you know, is like we can get away
with anything, and if he has money, even more power
to him. It's like he's perfect, he's great. There's nothing
he does wrong as long as he provides right. So, okay, okay,
doctor Hillary is here, so let's just dive right into this.
Speaker 3 (01:48):
Hi, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 6 (01:50):
Hi, it's so fun to be here. Thanks for having me.
Speaker 2 (01:52):
Yeah, so we're going to dive right into this, and
we have a lot of questions for you, doctor Hillary,
and I'm sure the viewers and the lists are very
eager to hear what you have to say about this.
So in your professional opinion, I want to know what
you think. Who has it more difficult? Is it the
dads that have been more difficult when it comes to
(02:13):
dating you girls? Or do the single moms that are
dating haveing more difficult? You know, as far as when
the kids are involved, right, Like, who do you think
has it hard or in the dating game when it
comes to dating post divorce.
Speaker 6 (02:27):
That's such a juicy question. There's so many levels of
that question to consider, so I'll unpack it. I mean,
I think, like at the top of the pyramid is intentionality, right,
it sort of depends on what the dad or the
mom is looking for. If you're looking for dating and
(02:47):
casual fun, maybe men have it a bit easier for
all the reasons in terms of access and the numbers
of women available younger, perhaps there's more of an ease
in that regard. But in terms of like trying to
curate a new connection and a new relationship, I think
(03:11):
it depends on the level of consciousness that each person
brings right post divorce, the way to cultivate a successful
relationship is to come with a new understanding about what
you're looking for, what you'll tolerate, what you won't tolerate.
I think that's heavy lifting, and in a way, women
probably have more foresight and resources to go through that
(03:35):
exercise to bring about things in their lives that resonate,
and men may do less of that post divorce. And
it's sort of stereotypical cliche, but I often see it.
So I think it really depends on each person's emotional
station in life, what kind of work they actually engage
in post divorce, what kind of level of as I said,
(03:57):
consciousness and intentionality. You mentioned the kids, So logistics around kids,
there's a whole other element that's true.
Speaker 2 (04:05):
Well, I mean I find with my experience and as
a woman, I feel like just in general, it's harder
for the woman to date. You know, I think the
kids are harder on their mom. I don't know if
it's that they're being more protected or they you know,
live most of the time with the mom or she
has like that, you know, that mother figure role. And
I just think the guys dad's have it easier, right,
It's just like, you know, it's okay for like the
(04:27):
dad to day different girls, but you know, when it
comes to the mom, it's that we're judged differently. I
mean that's just like my opinion and not that i've
lived in. But you know, I have a lot of
friends that are divorced. In our dating and and that's it,
you know, That's what they've shared with me.
Speaker 3 (04:44):
I think too, Alexi.
Speaker 5 (04:45):
It's also you know, it's I love that Hillary is
talking about Doctor Halley's talking about all the work and
and that is so important.
Speaker 3 (04:54):
Uh. I think for children too, just from like seeing my.
Speaker 5 (04:58):
Kids, they're you know a lot of children gravitate towards
the parent who basically is either they're blaming the parent
that is the one that's the nurturer, and they're celebrating.
Speaker 3 (05:11):
The one that has the money.
Speaker 5 (05:12):
And so like I think, you know, typically the generalization,
like doctor Hillary said, is that you know a lot
of men, you know, have Wednesdays and Saturdays and the
women have you know, the majority of the time with
the children.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
And so it's just natural.
Speaker 5 (05:28):
That you know, when you reliant on a parent, whether
they're the father or the mother, that person, that parent
is going to be the one that's not going to
get you know, the love. And you know, I know
for my own self, I mean I didn't have there
was no Wednesdays, there were no saturdays, there were no vacations.
It was I had a full custody of my children,
(05:52):
which I asked for just because I thought it was
the best scenario for my children, and.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
It was really different.
Speaker 5 (06:00):
I mean, my children are older now, but when they
were younger, it was very, very difficult because I did
not want to bring them into a situation where they
were like, who is this person?
Speaker 3 (06:11):
Are you my daddy?
Speaker 5 (06:12):
You know, it's like oh that little book like are
you my daddy? Are you my daddy?
Speaker 2 (06:16):
Uh?
Speaker 5 (06:17):
And so, And I didn't want my children to feel
like that as well, like they needed to find a dad.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
That's not what I wanted.
Speaker 5 (06:27):
And even now my kids are, they're really looking for
a partner. So it's like the three of us, we're
like we're a trifecta. And there I mean sometimes I'm like, oh.
Speaker 3 (06:34):
My god, like the people that they like versus the
purple that I like.
Speaker 5 (06:38):
You know, it's like it's it's like very stressful because
they're like, this is the person for you.
Speaker 3 (06:43):
And I'm like, are you sure?
Speaker 2 (06:44):
That's a great question. So should we have our children
picking our partners?
Speaker 3 (06:49):
Doctor Hillary? Should we That's a great question, Alexi?
Speaker 2 (06:52):
Yeah, fine, I mean we want our children's approval, of course,
you know, because there are lives and there's such a
big part of our life and we want to blend
us families who want, you know, everybody to be happy
and get along. But is that even a good idea, right,
because at the end of the day, we don't really
have a say in our children's relationships. And our children
grow up and they make their choices and they you know,
(07:13):
choose and select their partners, and you know, they want
our blessing too, right, we want to like them also
and approve of them, but at the end of the day,
it just really, you know, it has to do with you.
Speaker 1 (07:22):
I don't think we should give our children that power.
Speaker 2 (07:25):
I do think we need to validate their emotions and
their feelings and respect their boundaries and all that. But
it's really the person that makes you happy, and whatever
they think they make you happy is really not what
you're searching for what you need.
Speaker 7 (07:37):
There's like the old old adage about how other people's
see other people seeing in and you know it's like
they're you know, it's like they always they say something like,
you know, people are blind, but the neighbors ain't.
Speaker 5 (07:49):
Like the neighbors are not blind. And sometimes our kids
they have different interests because maybe like for example, they
might like like a man who has more money, so
that then they see that the man is showering you know,
us with money, and maybe that that they're like that
helps them feel more comfortable. But you know, friends and family,
(08:10):
they see when the person is the wrong person.
Speaker 3 (08:12):
Doctor Hally, what do you think about that?
Speaker 1 (08:14):
Well, yeah, the red flags for sure.
Speaker 2 (08:16):
Yeah, they do know that absolutely.
Speaker 6 (08:18):
So there's actually a clear answer to this, which is no,
and I'll walk through why. But that doesn't mean that
the children aren't involved in the process of sort of
curating and extended dynamic with a partner that you're going
to introduce into your life. There should be a real
(08:39):
deliberateness about how you facilitate that. But in terms of
picking a partner, what I'm about to say is really critical,
which is kids don't ultimately want that responsibility. They may
tell you they do, they may try to embody it,
but kids don't feel good when they have quote too
much power over their parents. They don't want to run
(09:00):
the show. If we ask them, they're going to probably
say the office it. But later when they end up
in my office in like twenty years, they're going to
talk about the dynamic of feeling like they had too
much say in their family system. It doesn't feel good.
That feels disregulating. So setting the boundary of like, hey,
this is this is kind of mom's journey, and like
(09:22):
I will sort of date and get to know people
that I feel appropriate. I will make mistakes, I will
make connections, and like, when it's appropriate, I'll bring you
in and I'll ask your opinion about how and about
when and how often. And it's then that if kids
have feedback about like I really think he's amazing for
these reasons, they're like, I'm kind of seeing something that
(09:43):
makes me uncomfortable. That's a fair dialogue to have with kids.
But we don't want to put kids in a position
to feel responsible. It's like it's too much heavy lifting.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
That's another interesting point.
Speaker 5 (09:54):
So if we and I agree with that, I agree that,
you know, I mean I have respect for my children's opinions,
but I don't, you know, make decisions based on their thoughts.
I mean, they're still even though they're twenty four and
twenty six, they are still my children.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So I agree with that.
Speaker 5 (10:12):
But what about when you're in the dynamic of like
blending the family, Because like when you're you know, I'm
fifty six years old, obviously there's going to be a
lot of men in the pool that I'm looking at
who have children, and what are your thoughts when like
all of the kids are kind of like at each
other's throats, and you know, like.
Speaker 3 (10:32):
How do like what are your thoughts on that?
Speaker 6 (10:36):
Yeah? Yeah, yeah, it's such a good question, and there's
no like formula to make it go perfectly, but at
least try to be in mind you slow, deliberate and
sort of curated about it. I would have an upfront
discussion about it, like I was just alluding to earlier
that like, this person's important to me, even if your
kiddos are twenty six and twenty four, you know, even
(10:58):
if they're clearly adults, and particularly when they're kiddos, But
either way, I would sit down and sort of be like, like,
this is going to happen. This person has become important
to me, and I want him to know you, and
I want you to know him. And he has kids
in the mix, and I want you all to know
each other. I want there to be some version of community.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
I appreciate that, yeah, and I think you should go slow.
Speaker 2 (11:18):
Also, I feel like the biggest problem with a lot
of relationships women and men is that they introduce their
so called new love or boyfriend or girlfriend too sue
to the kids. And sometimes the kids don't really need
to be involved so soon in the relationship. So that's
advice I could give, right to just go slow.
Speaker 6 (11:37):
Alexia is absolutely right, even though we women or the
guy might be really excited and should envision this community
and you know sort of familial feel which is sort
of really an exciting notion that's post divorced and you
start imagining like some other paradigm that feels really healing
(11:58):
and lovely. But kids don't need to be involved at
the beginning. I mean, there's no particular time frame that
I would adhere to per se, but like I wouldn't
get into it for at least six months, is my opinion.
Speaker 3 (12:12):
What happens when you like the kids more than your partner.
Speaker 5 (12:15):
That's eppened to me, Like I love the kids, and
I was like, he's awful, but they're amazing.
Speaker 6 (12:22):
A sign to consider exiting, Yeah, yeah, right, awful.
Speaker 5 (12:27):
And you know it's like I feel like I'm like, oh,
my kids. There's one French friend, a guy that I dated,
and he had kids who are just were adorable. And
my kids still really really liked his kids, and but
he's just awful. So it's like, you know, that is
just terrible too, because I mean, you know, for someone
like me like I have since day one, the reason
(12:49):
that I got divorced, the fundamental reason outside of like
other things, but the fundamental reason is because I wanted
a family for my family, and I did not know
my ex husband was not He was a you know,
he's an incredible creative, but in terms of being like
a father figure and creating a dynamic family, he just
(13:10):
that wasn't that.
Speaker 3 (13:11):
He just didn't have that tool in his tool.
Speaker 5 (13:12):
About just wasn't there, And so I was just I've
been constantly on the search.
Speaker 3 (13:19):
For fit.
Speaker 5 (13:19):
Literally now it's fifteen almost fifteen years for just a
good human I can tell.
Speaker 3 (13:26):
Where are they?
Speaker 6 (13:28):
Well, I mean you're bringing up something that's sort of
tangential to what we were just talking about, which is
that not for every woman, but for many women, that
sort of primitive edict for connection and family and community
and you being in search of that is completely lovely
and appropriate and can be blinding. When you're getting to
know someone, there's an apparent opportunity to build that community,
(13:52):
and we can like fill in the lengths to make
it okay for what we wanted to be without being
clear about what's actually happening. And so even though you
have that interest of curating that community and that sort
of family system, and you know, I said before six months,
whatever the number, is trying to be slow and deliberate
and intentional having those kind of conversations with your kids beforehand,
(14:15):
and to kind of get back to the point you
guys brought up if and when things aren't going well,
you know, the kids don't get along or they're not
interested in connecting, like deeply validating it. I totally get it,
Like this is fun for me, but like doesn't feel
that fun for you? Makes sense to me. This isn't
your family, This isn't you know, these aren't your siblings,
this isn't a step parent, and you're not invested Like
(14:36):
I am, totally what's something that we can broker that
feels okay to you? You know? Can we spend a
couple of hours once a week, right being able to
respect our kids' perspective. I mean some of this depends
on age. We can get into the nuance of that,
but respecting what it feels like as a kid to
be introduced to this new paradigm of people. For you,
(14:59):
you have compelled exciting feelings for kids, they have natural resistance.
Speaker 5 (15:03):
Yeah, I think it's also some for me. My kids
really want me to meet someone. They want me to
meet someone special, not just anyone. They really want me
to have that you know, relationship. They know that I've looked,
I've been looking for that. They know it's something that
I've always wanted and I just never you know, found it.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
And it's interesting.
Speaker 5 (15:25):
I was on a call with one of my clients
the other day and he was like, you didn't get
the memo Kelly of like dating the rich man? Like, no,
I'm sorry, I just didn't get that memo, all.
Speaker 3 (15:37):
Right, miss that one. Miss that memo.
Speaker 6 (15:39):
Sorry.
Speaker 5 (15:39):
And I'm like, that's not what I'm looking for. I'm
looking for a real connection. What about you, Alexey, what
are your thoughts.
Speaker 2 (15:47):
I think it's going to be easier for you now
that your daughters are older. I think it's harder when
they're teenagers, you know, especially for girls that they're permonal
and they're going through their periods, and you know, it
also depends on the you know, parenting styles, you know, like,
for example, if you're dating somebody that has children and
his parent and style is different from yours, it's really
(16:08):
difficult to blend families.
Speaker 1 (16:10):
I'm not gonna lie. I've been through it two.
Speaker 2 (16:12):
Times already, and I want to say that I haven't
really succeeded because you need both sides. You need everybody
needs to be involved, right like your current partner, his
ex wife, his children, yourself, your children. It's really really hard.
Like back in the day, for example, my mom was
divorced five times, so I had different men in my life, right,
(16:34):
But my mom always had it very clear and would
tell the men, these are my children, and we were
three brothers and sisters, and you have no say in
the way I bring up my children or in anything.
So I really never saw them as a stepfather or
as a father figure or anything like that. Because I
had my father. I was fortunate enough to have my
father involved in my life. So it was always like
(16:54):
my mom's boyfriend or my mom's man, but it was
never really involved in my life. Back in the day,
and this was obviously many years ago. Well, we didn't
have all this information and awareness and all this kind
of stuff. Even though my mom was a psychiatrist and
she was a very smart woman and she that's how
it works for her. It was like, these are my children,
and we lived with my mom, so it was my
(17:15):
mom's rules, and she never allowed her partner to have
any say in any decision making in our lives. And
you know what, it works for her. So it's something
that's very personal. You know, we can have I do
part one, two, three, four or five. We can talk
about the subjects forever because it's so complex and there's
so much too unpack, and it depends on the children also,
(17:35):
Like give you're the new spouse that comes in and
you partner, whether you were a cause of the divorce,
you know, the children are going to have resentment and
they're not gonna you know, welcome the person into their
lives and you can't even blame you know, the child
in a way. So it's just very very complex, you know.
But for you, Kelly, I think it's way easier now
because your daughters are older. You have a beautiful relationship
(17:57):
with them. They're mature, you know, they want you know,
our children learn from us, So you're I'm sure your
daughters are going to choose really well, you know, because
they had a really good example and they probably want
for you what they want for them. And what's going
to make you happier than having your daughters marry forever?
Right and find that man and you're gonna find them too.
You know, he's he's out there. You just have to
(18:18):
put yourself out there and be open to it. And
you know, don't involve your daughter so much, Kelly. They're
already adults. You know, they're going to figure it out.
They're going to have their relationships, and they're gonna make
their mistakes too, even though I know we want to
save our children and not make the mistakes, but they
have to go through it to and learn from it.
Speaker 5 (18:33):
I mean, I love my girls like I literally would
do absolutely anything for them, and I've proven that.
Speaker 2 (18:38):
We'll both basically mom, we have amazing kids. But what
happens is that, you know, I'm also in my fifties.
Your children grow up and you know, and they they
make their lives and they do and that's what you
want them to do. It It's hard for me too
because I'm super overprotective and you know my situation, but
you know, it would be selfish with me, you know,
not to do that, and we have to look up
(18:58):
for ourselves and what makes us happy. And obviously you're
at a different stage in your life than your daughters
are just beginning. And like I said, I'm sure that
they're gonna pick that guy, the guy that they would
probably want you to be with, right, but that's what
they want. So that's the person they're going to choose.
And you're going to pick whoever, you know, whoever's going
to make you happy and checks off the boxes and
(19:19):
you're going to have, you know, that compatibility and whatever
it is you know that you're looking for. But I've
learned that we need to leave our children out of it.
I mean, it depends on the time because like the
doctor Hillary said, they don't have the capacity.
Speaker 1 (19:33):
We can't give them that responsibility.
Speaker 2 (19:35):
That's like a hard job.
Speaker 1 (19:36):
But then if it doesn't work out, I.
Speaker 2 (19:37):
Mean, they're already going through children with divorce, parents already
have their own trauma and you know, their own things,
So we're just adding more pressure to them. So and
you know, I've made that mistake. That's why we hear
talking about it because you know, sometimes you know, we
you know, we do have to listen to them obviously
and validate their feelings and emotions. But at the end
of the day, we're the adults.
Speaker 1 (19:57):
We're the ones that have to make that decision, not
let make it.
Speaker 5 (20:10):
I mean, doctor Hurley, I don't know if you know this,
but I called off my wedding four days before I
was supposed to get married. And one of them there
were many reasons why I called off the wedding, but
one of the biggest reasons was because my children were
just not happy and I we had gone away on
vacation and they just were so miserable, and I just
(20:31):
was like, this is not what I want in my life,
Like I do not want to live my life with
my children being miserable. Like I just don't want that.
Speaker 3 (20:41):
What are your.
Speaker 5 (20:42):
Thoughts on What are your thoughts on on what I did?
Speaker 6 (20:46):
Wow, that's that's a power move. But look, I understand, uh,
to make such an enormous decision in your life and
to have your kids vocally and viscerally unhappy is and
almost impossible combination, right, And you know, we're talking about
a subset of what we were originally talking about, which
is the notion of sure not letting our kiddos pick
(21:09):
our partner, but once a partner is in our lives,
understanding their impact on our family system is really really important.
So of course I don't know the details, and I
imagine you'll have to tell me, but some of the
discomfort that was coming up for them must have bumped
up against some of your pre existing unconscious discomfort if
you eventually made that decision.
Speaker 3 (21:31):
Oh, it was conscious. It was definitely not consciousness.
Speaker 2 (21:33):
Yes, I was going to ask you talk to Hilary's
one that situation, like what do you do? Like, let's say,
like your children are not comfortable with the new person
in your life and you're about to get married and whatnot,
So what do you do?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Like as a mom, right, what do you do? Do
you go ahead with it? Do you try to do
like a family meeting?
Speaker 4 (21:53):
Right?
Speaker 1 (21:53):
And like some interventions, some therapy. I don't know what
is it that we can do?
Speaker 6 (21:57):
Look, I think I mean, notwithstanding the four days before
part of.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
It that was pretty baldy Kelly, thanks Alexia.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
I was like, this is not happening.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
You know, you have to go buy your gut, and
that's what you did.
Speaker 6 (22:11):
Paradoxically, I would lean way in, meaning I would open
up a lot of space for their thoughts and feedback.
It doesn't mean you have to take their advice sort
of follow their line of thinking, but I would be like,
I'm curious, tell me more your opinion, your feeling, your
mindset matters to me greatly, Like I want to hear everything.
I would just invite the feedback and the dialogue just
(22:32):
between you and them, and then you have some work
to do, right, I mean, in Kelly, it sounds like
in your case it was clearly bumping up, intersecting with
existing concerns that you had, right and so in this case,
and you'll have to tell me if I'm right, but
in this case there were a bit of like truth tellers,
things that you were already thinking about consciously or unconsciously.
(22:53):
And so if that's true, that's one scenario, you know
where it's sort of like, wow, I haven't wanted to
look at these things and face these things. But it's
still important even if that's the scenario we're talking about,
to make that decision by yourself, to do the work,
to do the analysis, to talk to trusted others, a therapist,
a mentor, et cetera, to think about what are your
(23:16):
deal breakers, what are your non negotiables, What are the
dynamics that work for you, and what are the dynamics
that don't. And obviously dynamics related to our children are
going to be included in that analysis. There are often
scenarios where our kids are just resistant.
Speaker 2 (23:31):
Yeah, I was going to say that too.
Speaker 4 (23:32):
Absolutely, they don't want to quote lose us to someone else, right,
And so reticence is more rooted in their own understandable
trauma about yourself and now being replaced or their dad
being replaced or both.
Speaker 6 (23:48):
And those are also really valid feelings.
Speaker 1 (23:50):
So yeah, to nameless.
Speaker 6 (23:52):
Feelings and honor those and validate them, but still reserve
the right and model for them that you're going to
make your own decision if this person in this relationship
resonates with you. I mean, it's much more complicated in
terms of what it would look like playing out, But
that's sort of the headlines, right.
Speaker 3 (24:09):
No, I appreciate that.
Speaker 2 (24:10):
I love that you said that, doctor Hillary, because that's
that's how I think now. I didn't know that that
years ago, but what I've learned through my life lessons,
I feel the same about what you've heard right now,
h and I had, so my second husband, her man
had two adult children. Went about children because I always
consider them children. But they were already like over eighteen.
(24:31):
One was about to turn eighteen, and you know, they
resisted for the wrong reasons, you know.
Speaker 1 (24:37):
But he always had it very clear.
Speaker 2 (24:39):
He said, listen, you know, she's not trying to be
your mom or your stepmom, but you have to respect her.
And she's your friend, and she's just gonna have that
friendal you know. And she's my wife and she's who
I love, and this is what it's going to be,
and you need to respect that.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
When you.
Speaker 2 (24:54):
Know, when you're ready to go with your life and
select your woman and marry her, I will respect that
as well.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
I'm going to make that decision. So you never really know.
And I honestly I was not the cause of their divorce.
I was nothing.
Speaker 2 (25:06):
I meant years later, but they still held on to
that resentment and so that resists.
Speaker 1 (25:10):
And they never wanted to see their father happy. That's
really what it is.
Speaker 2 (25:14):
And they waited to that passed a wedding to tell me,
f you like, literally we were just buried him, and
that was the first thing they did.
Speaker 1 (25:21):
So all of that resentment and can you imagine, Kelly.
Speaker 3 (25:25):
No, I cannot. I'm so sorry. It's awful, I know.
Speaker 2 (25:28):
So at my wedding with him, my friend my friends
that were there said, Alexa, we never told you, but
his sons were crying at the wedding, and they weren't
crying out of joy. They were crying out of anger
that he married you. They were so upset that he
hadn't be like why, Like, all I did was trying
to make the other happy. And that's how it is
in every relationship, right. It wasn't like, I don't know
(25:51):
till today why those kids, you know, disliked me so much,
because you know, all I did was like, you know,
be a good wife, be a good like mother, role,
accept them into my life, give them love and respect.
I mean, that's how it was. I even worked with them.
So it was really really difficult for me. So for
me when I married Todd, I said, he had two daughters.
(26:12):
I said, you know what, I'm going to have zero
involvement because I was so hurt with you know, with
Hermit's kids that I said to myself, you know, I'm
not going to set myself up for that pain again.
You know, to like raise these girls to like be
you know, so close to them and love them so much,
and then God forbid it doesn't work out, and then
you know they're like, hey, like you know, I was
protecting myself. So it's really really difficult.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
That's all I can tell you. I mean, it's you know,
my mom would say, you can get married and divorced
as many times as.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
You want, but only have you can't have children because
the children are the ones that are affected. And then
that's when it comes to blending families. Like you know,
the responsibility really falls on the parents. You know, it's
up to them. They have to put all their differences
aside and say, you know what, we want our kids
to come out healthy, you know, mentally, so we need
to do this for them. Forget about what happened between
(27:03):
you and I, and you have to like, you know,
parent the right way, and you know, and it's hard.
Speaker 1 (27:08):
It's hard to do it. It's easy to say, but
I know it's very hard to do it.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
You know.
Speaker 6 (27:13):
I think one of the things that divorce parents underestimate
and stay with me because this will tie back to
what you're saying, is the extended trauma of divorce on kids.
We choose to get a divorce or a divorce happens
to us, and then we get to move on with
our lives. We process that, we grieve, we have trauma,
(27:34):
et cetera. But we get to curate new relationships, new partnerships,
sometimes new marriages. This is a lifelong thing for kids
right there. Many of them are going back and forth
between houses and have to deal with new partners in
and out of their lives, and aren't naturally organically interested
sometimes in forming relationships with new partners. And when you
(27:56):
think about it objectively, that that makes sense. I mean,
it's important to the people and the partnership, but not
always important to the children. That doesn't mean we don't
try to curate something that's cohesive and courteous and polite.
But I think what we miss is an opportunity to like,
deeply validate the experience of the kids, even if they're
adults that like some version of like. I get that
(28:19):
this isn't fun. I get that you might have resistance
to this. I get that you might even feel angry
about this. You might even still have feelings of upset
that we're divorced in the first place. Even if it
happened fifteen years ago. It's an I see adult children
in my practice meeting people who are thirty, forty, fifty sixty,
who obviously are adults, but we're children of divorce that
(28:39):
are still processing the impact of it. Even if they're adults,
bringing in a new partner can be triggering to their
original trauma and they're sort of ongoing trauma and processing
of it. So while Alexi, I'm not saying that means
people should not get into new relationships and formulate a
new community, but there is a way to narrate those
(29:01):
truths that make the new partner more accessible and digestible
to our adult kids. And I think a lot of parents,
because it's so awkward and painful to acknowledge those truths
or to acknowledge that the kids might be either neutral
or not into it, don't have those kind of discussions
that sort of lay better groundwork to bring in new people.
Speaker 5 (29:22):
I mean, one thing I think was like the good
thing that I did when my when I got divorced
from my from my only ex husband, is that I
never spoke badly about their dad. You know, whether he
was available, unavailable, whatever.
Speaker 3 (29:36):
He was doing. Those were.
Speaker 5 (29:38):
Those were things that they told me, and I didn't
engage in whatever they were telling me. I was like, oh,
you know, I understand, you know, listening to them speak,
but then I didn't. I didn't indulge them in any
kind of negative conversation. And so they're not used to
hearing or being a part of, like a negative narrative
(29:59):
with anybody that I am have you know, been with,
and so I think that they were just genuinely just
not happy. And it's interesting because after I got after
I after I called off the wedding, you know, I
obviously was around you know, a lot of my friends,
and they were, you know, the majority of the people
that I were, you know that were you know, giving
(30:21):
me advice.
Speaker 3 (30:22):
Afterwards. They were saying that, you know.
Speaker 5 (30:24):
I'm getting older and that I really need to settle
down and you know, find the right person, which I
understand and agree with, and they were they were just
you know, the common denominator was, you know, it doesn't
matter if the kids don't get along or if you're
their kids, his kids don't like you, or your kids
don't like him, It's about your relationship together. And like,
(30:47):
I just don't operate like that I like, I was
not raised that way.
Speaker 3 (30:53):
I'm just not an East Coast I mean i am.
Speaker 5 (30:55):
I've lived in the East Coast for obviously number of years,
but my my inherent mindset and upbringing comes from the Midwest,
which is about building a family.
Speaker 3 (31:08):
Like, that's what I want and that's what I'm going
to get.
Speaker 6 (31:13):
Well it unless I am missing a piece of the story.
It sounds like the things that your kids narrated for
you were truth for you. Also, Yeah, and so, and
I think we should make that distinction.
Speaker 3 (31:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Well, I mean I always wanted them to. It just
hasn't worked out that way. But you know, I feel
like I'm like you too, Kelly. I wanted that, Like
I never wanted to divorce. I came from a family
that was divorced. I never wanted done. My brother's sister's
so married. So I tried, you know, so, but there's
you know, only so much you could do, you know,
for the kids. And I feel like, now my kids
(31:49):
are older, they get it. They're like, Mom, I understand
you know this that and why you made this decision
and why you did that. And you know, maybe now
that your girls are older, you can have that conversation
with them.
Speaker 3 (32:00):
Yeah, you know, I just just I just interested.
Speaker 5 (32:02):
It's like my kids have been you know, I mean
they've been, you know, very supportive of whatever I've been doing.
Speaker 3 (32:08):
But I thought that was wild that like people that I.
Speaker 5 (32:12):
Knew are just like Kelly, just like suck it up
and just like find a partner.
Speaker 3 (32:16):
I'm like, you don't just find a partner like you buy.
Speaker 1 (32:20):
Like to find your happiness in yourself.
Speaker 2 (32:22):
Like finding a partner is not going to make you
happy or fix your life or fix yourself.
Speaker 3 (32:26):
So that's but I think a lot of people think
that I know, well.
Speaker 1 (32:29):
A lot of women because they are women.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
The women that are married, so you have those friends
and will give you that kind of advice because I've
always been in a relationship. Then you'll have women that
never married or they're happily divorced and they're independent, you know,
financially and psychologically and emotionally, so they'll give you a
different kind of advice.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
But you have to focus on you, on Kelly, and
like what you want.
Speaker 6 (32:50):
Yeah, this really feeds into the narrative that is old
but still is quite ubiquitous, which is the idea that
you are undervalued if you aren't in relationship, right, and
the fear that is in our sociocultural dynamics around women aging,
and so you're right to notice that this messaging doesn't
(33:12):
feel good and doesn't resonate. And I think it's incredible
that you've been able to stand up in the face
of it and sort of say, like, no, I'm gonna
I'm going to pick something that resonates. I'm going to
wait until I get a version of what I want,
which is exactly what you should do.
Speaker 5 (33:27):
And I think, I mean, there is a lot of
fear associated with doing things on your own, by yourself.
I mean, whether that's a male or a female. You know,
it is so much nicer when you can say there's
a pot, we're both putting it in and we're going to.
Speaker 3 (33:41):
Create and build.
Speaker 5 (33:42):
You know, I'm building on my own, and there's something
very daunting about that.
Speaker 3 (33:47):
Every day It's like it's.
Speaker 5 (33:48):
Like I'm not only an entrepreneur in business, but I'm
an entrepreneur in my personal life too, which is a
very kind of daunting.
Speaker 3 (33:56):
You know, everyday thought that I have.
Speaker 2 (34:00):
I don't mean to be negative, I'm just very realistic
and pragmatic. I mean, do you really believe you're going
to find that person that you can start building it
with them. Okay, listen, there's nothing like faith and being
positive and optimistic.
Speaker 3 (34:12):
I'm not, but also that's my mindset.
Speaker 5 (34:15):
I definitely would love to have something with with you know,
my significant other, where we were doing something together and
creating like value, not not necessarily monetary value, but like
personal value.
Speaker 3 (34:28):
I think that's really important.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
Well, yes, personal for sure.
Speaker 3 (34:32):
Yeah, because I mean we're not gonna have kids. I mean, you.
Speaker 2 (34:34):
Know, from personal I agree. I think that that's a
really woman's you know, goal and wish and dream. You know,
we all want that, right, that's what we.
Speaker 3 (34:41):
Own for Maybe I'm an optimist.
Speaker 1 (34:44):
Yeah, I know, and I am too, Like you know,
we're in love with love and we want to have that.
Speaker 3 (34:48):
I'm the only optimist in New York City.
Speaker 1 (34:52):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Well, come to Miami because I feel like I've lost
my optimism and I'm super jaded because I live in Miami.
Speaker 3 (34:58):
So I see you have media, you and doctor Hillary.
Speaker 6 (35:02):
Yes, I think it's important for us to sort of,
in my view, have been brazen normalize what Kelly is
talking about, which is formulating a connection with someone through
respect and emotional, physical resonance, and a version of safety.
These are all like requirements that are more appropriate and
(35:24):
more than possible. I don't want to misrepresent the truth.
There are many many women of all age ranges that
can narrate how difficult that can be. I'm not trying
to downplay that truth. And there are a lot of
reasons that, not the least of which is that it's
tricky to be an emotionally evolves man in our culture
because it's both required but round up town, which we
(35:46):
can get into if we'd like. But it's hard to
find a man that can stand next to you and
sort of giving these requirements that you are asking for.
Having said that, that kind of connection seems completely reasonable
to me, and you're doing such a service right now,
which is both pulling back the curtain. I'm like the
fear of like doing so much of this alone. It
(36:08):
is hard and lonely at moments, it is scary.
Speaker 5 (36:11):
It is yeah, not at moments. It is hard and
lonely period. Yeah, it is not easy. It is not easy.
I mean I won a date last night and he
(36:31):
said to me, you're so nurturing. He's like, I've never
been with a woman that's so nurturing. I'm like, I
haven't done anything. I'm just sitting at a restaurant. But
you know he was, I was just asking about himself,
and I genuinely am interested in like what he's doing
and you know how he feels and you know how
he's raising his kids. And maybe because of all the
(36:54):
work that I've done, not only with a therapist, but
just from working on with I Do Part two and
just meeting all the amazing women like you know, you
Hillary and Alexia and I mean just tons of women
and men that I've met. So it's just like I
just have a different perspective now than I did.
Speaker 3 (37:12):
Definitely, you know last summer it's like nine months staying
nine months to heal.
Speaker 2 (37:19):
Well, you know, we're work in progress, you know, so
long as we're you know, living and growing and learning,
it's it's all good for us.
Speaker 3 (37:27):
And I want to be a good role model for
my kids.
Speaker 5 (37:29):
And I want to be I know, I'm going to
make mistakes, and I really like that Alexia talks about
like her mother saying that there's gonna be mistakes and
you're gonna have.
Speaker 3 (37:38):
To watch it. And I really really embrace that.
Speaker 5 (37:41):
I think it's really important to acknowledge that people are
going to make mistakes and that they don't need to
be reprimanded or you know, like blamed or shamed because
they are not necessarily always doing the right thing at
the right time.
Speaker 3 (37:55):
You know, we're human.
Speaker 5 (37:57):
I just, you know, it's just been a very interesting
road for me, and you know, I really you know,
it's been it's been hard to with my girls, like
I just want I want everything for them, just like
Alexi as mom wanted for her, Like that's what I want,
and what Alexi wants for her kids, that's what I
want for mine. You know, I just want everyone to
be a big, happy family.
Speaker 6 (38:21):
What had what have been like your most Kelly, you know,
sort of critical insights and lessons over the last nine months.
Speaker 5 (38:28):
Uh to be forgiving of myself and of other people
and really genuinely forgiving, not like I forgive, but I'm
gonna forget or like all these like you know, kind
of like housewives. Not nothing against housewives, Alexei, but like
you know, like when you're on Housewives, it's like you
have this kind of like you know, this this this
verbiage where You're like, I forgive, but I don't forget,
(38:50):
but like in my own personal Kelly life, just genuine
forgiveness for myself for the decisions that I've made.
Speaker 2 (39:00):
Yeahs so hard on yourself. I feel like, as women
and moms, were always really hard on ourselves.
Speaker 3 (39:04):
So hard on ourselves, so hard on ourselves.
Speaker 5 (39:07):
And you know, you know, we've all been through a lot,
and we all have these you know, strong narratives and
we all want to you know, move forward and you know,
be the best version of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (39:20):
But sometimes it's not always easy. When you know there's a.
Speaker 5 (39:23):
Clash or there's a conflict, or there's like something that's unexpected,
like you know, I mean, howful.
Speaker 3 (39:31):
And Alexia's her you know, children are crying. I mean
that's awful. I was like, that's terrible.
Speaker 6 (39:37):
I mean, particularly when we have kids in our sphere.
Being able to maybe not in real time, but over time,
being able to narrate. Yeah, this was whatever the this
is this calling off the wedding, you know, this divorce
was like tricky and painful and unexpected. And I felt
lost in despair and hopeless. And you saw that and
(39:58):
you felt that, and that had to be disorienting, but
that's like part of being human. And I have gratitude
that you were able to witness that. I mean, I
wouldn't wish that on me or you, but like it's
real to have suffering and pain, and I want you
to see that part of that is sitting in the mess,
being still with tricky feelings, not knowing which way to go,
(40:20):
being destabilized, being disoriented, and then climbing your way out.
And I think, particularly as women, we feel like this
primitive edict to model some version of like perfection or
chronic emotional regulation in front of our kids, and it's
not really a thing, And in fact, we're depriving them
of having a role model to like, oh, this is
what it looks like when things get tricky, This is
(40:41):
what it looks like when things are hard. Mom does
get sad, Mom does cry, and mom does make the
wrong decision. But what happens next She comes back, She
narrates it, She makes it less confusing by telling me
what happened. She gives me insight into how she's reconceptualizing
it and showing up different. That's what more can we
give to our kids, other than wishing that their lives
(41:01):
would be perfect. No such thing.
Speaker 5 (41:03):
I love what you just said, showing up different after
being communicative.
Speaker 3 (41:08):
I mean that is so doctor, Hell are your genius.
She's like in my spare.
Speaker 6 (41:17):
Time gift we can give our kids save some like
you know, notion that we can make things not complicated
for them, since we know that's not a thing that
is that is our mission, and it relieves us of
the notion that we somehow can't be messy in front
of our kids. Yeah we can, and we should call
it out, raise our hand and said you see it,
(41:39):
you saw it, and here's what I've done about it.
Speaker 2 (41:41):
M I love that.
Speaker 5 (41:43):
Okay, So I have two You asked me about what
was the one thing. So the one is forgiveness and
the two is just being accountable, personally accountable. So when
anyone asks me, whether that's you know, on our podcasts
or in general, I always talk about my responsibility for
what I've done or how I've reacted and what I'm
(42:07):
doing to be proactive about moving forward with my own
new narrative.
Speaker 3 (42:13):
And uh, you know, it takes a lot of guts
to do that.
Speaker 5 (42:17):
To be honest with you too, I mean you have
to remember, like it's not like I'm like with someone.
I'm still single and I'm you know, still open to
being accountable and being like, Okay, I did some really
you know, stupid things myself, but I know that there's
more to come, and I think.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
That all of that.
Speaker 5 (42:38):
I think that just like being able to articulate that,
whether that's you know, here or just with friends, has really.
Speaker 3 (42:47):
Opened me up.
Speaker 5 (42:48):
And you said that a couple of times, doctor Hillary,
about really being open up, like giving yourself space for
all of those new feelings, those new people, those new
new relationships.
Speaker 3 (43:00):
That's just really, really, really very important for me.
Speaker 6 (43:05):
Yeah, And here's an unexpected paradox which you're describing, which
is accountability ultimately equals empowerment, an intense feeling of empowerment.
Right to say the thing I did that I showed
up in a way I didn't feel. It's niberating, and
it's compelling to other people. Nine times out of ten,
(43:25):
if not more, people are going to be compelled by
it and find you interesting and to find that story
to be inspiring. Right, the notion that like I own
how I move through the world when it's powerful and
amazing and when it didn't work and so I imagine
that it over like. That's part of why these nine
months had been a growth season for you is because
(43:48):
it starts to curate a version of like expansiveness and
possibility and like a sense of power and two things
can be true at the same time. All of that
can be happening for you, and you can still want
a partner to have intimacy and connection.
Speaker 4 (44:03):
Right.
Speaker 3 (44:03):
Thank you so much, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 5 (44:06):
Thank you, Alexi. This has been unbelievable. Your insight is
so powerful, Alexia. You are such an open force of nature,
and I'm so happy that I've gotten to know you better.
Speaker 3 (44:19):
Thank you, Thank you, Thank you guys.
Speaker 1 (44:21):
No, thank you, thank you, doctor Hillary.
Speaker 6 (44:24):
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (44:25):
Are you a single parent navigating dating post divorce? Maybe
you got teenaged at home and it hasn't been easy.
Speaker 5 (44:32):
But we are here to help. Call us or email us,
follow us on socials. All the information will be in
the show notes. Make sure to rate and review the
podcast I Do Part two, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Speaker 3 (44:47):
We're falling in Love is the main objective
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Amy Robach
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