June 22, 2023 • 44 mins
In 1991, Steve Rifkind founded LOUD RECORDS. In the decade that followed, LOUD would cultivate one of the most iconic rosters in hip-hop history, including Wu-Tang Clan, Mobb Deep, Big Pun, 3 6 Mafia, Dead Prez, and Tha Alkaholiks.
But the label’s success was a product of more than just one man’s effort. LOUD was the confluence of Rifkind’s vision and network, childhood friend and partner Rich Issacson’s iron-fisted governance, and the impeccable taste, tone, and tireless efforts of an ensemble cast of hip-hop obsessed young staffers. Not to mention the timeless art of some of the most talented rappers and producers to pick up a mic or tap on a beat machine.
On this week’s episode of Idea Generation's All Angles, we talked to founders Rifkind and Issacson, A&Rs Matty C, Schott Free, and Sean C, Radio VP MoeJoe, as well as Havoc from Mobb Deep, to hear the full story of how LOUD RECORDS grew from a one room office on Melrose Ave to one of the most successful record labels of the ‘90s. And how the inspired chaos that fueled their rise ultimately contributed to the legendary label’s undoing.
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
So he goes, listen, guys, I gotta tell you this company.
I'm already minus seventeen million for the year. I don't
know what to do with these records. I'm just gonna
let you go.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He says.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I run out of money, and they're closing at the
end of the year, and we're living off of riches
credit cards right the second, and I think Rich is
having an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I am ready to jump off a building at that point.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Welcome to Idea Generations All Angles, a podcast about culture's
most influential brands and the teams that build them. If
you're an entrepreneur, creative, or anyone interested in harnessing the
power of collaboration, join me Noah Callahan Bever each week
as we dissect the most dynamic companies in culture, because
the only way to truly understand success is to look
(00:51):
at it from all angles. Idea Generations All Angles is
a Will Packer Media podcast. In nineteen ninety one, Steve
Rifkin founded Loud Records, and in the decade that followed,
Loud would cultivate one of the most iconic rosters in
(01:12):
hip hop history, including Wu Tang, Clan, Mob, Deep, Big Pun,
three six, Mafia, Dead pres and the Alcoholics. But the
label's success was a product of more than just one
man's effort. Loud was the confluence of Rifkin's vision and network,
childhood friend and partner Rich Isaacson's iron fisted governance, and
the impeccable taste, tone and tireless efforts of an ensemble
(01:35):
cast of hip hop obsessed young staffers, not to mention
the timeless art of some of the most talented rappers
and producers to ever pick up a mic or tap
on a beat machine. On this week's episode, we talked
to founders Rifkin and Isaacson, A and R's Mattie C.
Scott Free and Shaun Sea Radio VP Mojo, as well
(01:55):
as Havoc from Mob Deep to hear the full story
of how Loud Records grew from a one room office
on Melrose ab to one of the most successful record
labels of the nineties, and how the inspired chaos that
fueled their rise ultimately also contributed to the legendary labels undoing.
But long before any of that happened, decades prior to
Cloud selling a single record, there were just two best
(02:16):
friends driving home from soccer practice in Merrick Long Island.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Steve and I grew up together in Merrick Long Island.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
This is Rich Isaacson, co founder of Loud Records.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It was kind of one of those neighborhoods where everybody
played out in the street, so we knew each other
just from being kids in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
So Marrick had a north side and a south side.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
The north side was all Irish, the south side was
mostly Jews and Italians.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
This is Steve Rifkint, founder of Loud Records.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
So there would be fights pretty much every day that
we went to school.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Steve and I grew up a couple of blocks away
from each other, so kind of in each other's lives
since we were literally little kids. Teenage, then high school,
and we got really close, I would say in high school.
He was a senior in high school when I was
in tenth grade. We were both on the soccer team.
He was on Varsie and I was on JB and
you know, we knew each other, but he was like
(03:13):
the big kid and I was really little at that point.
So Steve was driving and I didn't drive yet at
that time, so he would take me home from practice
or pick me up, and he makes a joke that
I had to pay him, and he tells that story like, oh,
Ritchie's to pay just to hang out with me.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Though Steve was raised in a mundane suburb of Long Island,
his childhood was anything but ordinary. The Rifkin family was
a music industry dynasty. Steve's grandfather had run a popular
nightclub on Queen's Boulevard, and Steve's father and uncle, Jules
and Roy Rifkin, were hugely successful in radio promotion and
early champions of R and B and soul music. Jewles
had been a senior executive at both MGM and Bang Records,
(03:52):
was a confidant of James Brown, and would eventually launch
his own label under Polydor Spring Records. So it was
almost a given that and his younger brother Jonathan would
add onto the family's legacy and the music biz.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
My house, we could only listen to WBLS. BLS was
the only black station in the one or seven point five,
so everybody else was listening to the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Beatles,
Pink Floyd, you know, whatever the rock and pop stuff was.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I had no clue what it was.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
His dad was in the music business, and that household
was really pretty exotic for Merrick, Long Island.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
He had any given time, that could be a lomo
at the house and it could be James Brown, it
could be Millie Jackson, it would be somebody from the
Fat Back Band. It could be Kenny gamble E Leon Huff,
who was the biggest producers.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Founded in nineteen sixty seven by Steve's father, Jules brother
Royd and friend Bill Spittalaski, Spring Records ushered in a
generation of classic R and B, funk and soul, including
superstars like Joe Simon and Millie Jackson, and by virtue
of kicking it in Jewels living room, even Rich got
front row seats to witness how the music industry really worked.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
The Spring Records had classic, amazing R and B, and
then later on Steve and his dad put out what
many considered the first hip hop record of all time,
which was King Tim the Third by the Fat Back Band.
Steve wasn't exactly a student that didn't care about seeing
A student had a learning disability.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I didn't know how to read a write till I
was on to fifteen years old. I was majorly dyslexic.
Nobody knew what that was then, so they sent me
to Julie. I didn't have to sleep there. The little
bus would come. They would come into the bus and
then they would take me to a school. And my
parents they tried their best with me.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
They even believe me. I really thought.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Up until my senior year in high school, my dream
was the NBA. My dad took me to a record
convention one time and it was a took him that hotel,
and I was like, all right, this is kind of cool,
but it really didn't do anything into me.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I think he went to college for a day or
a week or something like that, and he's like, this
isn't for me.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Seeing Steve drop out of college without any plans prompted
Jewels and Grandpa Ripken to call a meeting with Steve.
And the outcome of that conversation, well, it would set
off his career in the music industry.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
My grandfather called me, he goes, why don't you do
what your cousin did. I'm like, what did my cousin do?
He goes, he went to visit radio stations. Two weeks later,
my grandfather called me, he just pick me up at
the airport and he goes, we'll haveing lunch with your father.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
We go to lunch.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
They you're gonna go to visit some radio stations. You'll
fly back to Florida with Grandpa, and then from there.
They gave me a route of where and there was
always somebody there. My first off was Florida. I don't
know how to read a map. I got ten dollars
worth a quarters and forty grand and gash and my
father says, if you disappear, you're dead. First stop. I
(06:43):
went from Fort Lada of Florida to Alabama, and I
met a guy a name with Dave Clark. Dave Clark
ran the South from a promotion side of things, and
he's introducing me to like program directed and I just
really did a lot of listening and I introduced myself
and I just kept in touch.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Day didn't ask me.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
To hang out with them, and I was like, where's
the local college.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Being much younger than the pds and radio vets, Steve
headed to the local colleges, both the work his dad's
records with the DJs, but also to party with people
his own age. This routine would continue for the next
couple of years. Steve would visit college towns, build relationships
with the local DJs, and get his records played on
their stations. Ultimately, this network of radio taste makers would
(07:26):
become the foundation of Steve's career.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
From mobile to making Georgia and then New Orleans and
I'd go back to the colleges again, and that three
weeks ended up being three years where I would zig
zag all across the country.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So that's how the whole street Team concept came together.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
After a few years on the road, Steve found himself
back in New York City surfacing records to Frankie Crocker,
a record breaking icon at WBLS, the number one black
music station in the Tri State. One Saturday night, Steve
got an opportunity to roll with Crocker that would both
open his eyes and transform his business.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So this is when I'm around twenty twenty one. I'm
at BLS Radio and then May James, who is the
music director, said Frankie wants to talk to you. He
goes hey, does your dad still get the limos My
dad definanced the limousine company Music Express. I'm like, I
don't know, let's call him. Frankie goes hey, Julie, do
you still have the thing? He goes, yeah. He goes,
(08:23):
I need one for Saturday night. My dad goes, you
have no problem, but let's Steven go with you. So
I'm like, where are we going? He goes, We're going
to the garage.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
The garage wasn't just any nightclub. This was the home
of DJ legend Larry Levine, who, from a later than
late night underground club in downtown Manhattan, broke the sounds
of disco and dance that would define pop music for
a decade plus.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
It was a club and it opened up at six
in the morning. Frankie's come to the house around three
in the morning, go to the house, we go to
Studio fifty four, We go to another club, Magique, and
now it's time to go to the garage. He's not
telling me anything, right, So around like an hour later,
he disappears. I'm by myself. He's by the DJ booth
(09:07):
and he's not talking to Larry. He's just literally like
eyeing the tiger. I'm like, what is he doing? So
in between eight o'clock in the morning to nine o'clock
in the morning, whatever Larry played, Frankie was adding to
the radio station.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Having seen Frankie's system of music discovery, Steve got an
idea on how to capitalize on Larry's golden hour picks.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
So I'm calling Atlantic Records or Epic Record. I'm like, hey,
I could get your Shannon record. I'm just making up
a name. I could get your Shannon record. At it
to BLS tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
See, there's no fucking way. I'm like, I promise you
who goes if you get it?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
How much you want? Five grand?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
There was a label called Next Plateau. I called that
was seed Bank One more shot, and I nailed all
three records, So I made fifteen grand. Nobody knows. I'm
not telling my dad. I'm not telling anybody. I'm twenty
two years old. I'm making fifteen grand a week now,
so I'm making a name for myself. That PolyGram puts
me on retainer, not for a lot of money, for
(10:04):
like five hundreds a week, but I'm still getting those records.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
By getting those records, Steve means that he would watch
the songs that Larry played during the peak hours on
Sunday morning, knowing that Frankie Crocker would likely add them
to regular rotation on bls that week, and then first
thing Monday morning, he would call the labels behind each
song that Larry played and offer for a fee to
(10:29):
get those records in rotation, knowing full well that Frankie
was about to do it. Anyways, Frankie he.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Had two assistants, Delfina and Beth, and I'm like, just
tell Frankie every Saturday, I'm gonna go up to the garage.
I had a good run with that two three months
until I'm dropping off Popeye's Chicken to Frankie. It's a Thursday,
and I walk in and there's my father and uncle
and m and it's like a scene out of the Mafia.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And I'm like, what's up?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And my uncle has a temper and he slammed the
fucking a table and he's like, how long do you
think you could have done this without telling us? I'm like,
what do you mean? He goes, we know what you're doing.
I'm like, all right, I didn't know I had to
tell you. And so Frankie's laughing and he said the
same thing, goes, man, you guys really think you're some
mafia guys.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Frank He goes, when.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Did you realize I realized the first week, he goes, well,
how did you realize? I said, you was just staring
and listening and you weren't writing notes, but you were
like giving yourself a mental note and I just watched.
And then the next week you left me again. At
the same time, he goes, man, that's pretty brilliant you.
So my uncle says, well, how much did you make?
(11:40):
I said I was making around fifteen to twenty grand
a week, and they said, well, you got to give
us a piece. And I was like, you're out of
your fucking mind, like you're not getting a piece. I
didn't give him a piece, but you know, we definitely
had words, and I mean after money was going up
my nose anyway.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
In those days, will Steve played fast and loose, rich
walked a straight and narrow when it came to his career.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
When I decided to go to law school, it was
more like, Okay, I need to have a profession, you know,
I need to have some kind of security in life.
I was always more of a realist than I was
a good student, and I figured this is a career
path for me, and it gives me a bunch of
opportunities to do different things. I went to an Ivy
League law school, I had student loans, I had debt.
Come out of law school, I worked for a big
(12:27):
corporate law firm. You know, I think I'm at the
pinnacle of the success that I was trying to achieve
as a kid. Making one hundred grand at the time,
which was in the eighties, I thought I was like rich,
and I think I've made it. And every day it
was just it was like being a professional student. You
have a homework assignment every night. You're never done and
it never stops. And I was working, you know, seventy
(12:48):
five eighty hours a week, writing briefs, doing research in
the library on the weekend. It was just awful. I'm
doing that. I have an apartment on the Upper West Side,
thinking it's the coolest thing in the world, even though
I hate my job. And Steve's now in LA.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Steve wasn't in La by happenstays. He and Fred Hiram
Hicks had gotten win at Mega R and b act
New Audition. We're in the market for new management, so
Steve moved to LA to cement a relationship with Mike, Ronnie, Ricky,
Johnny and Ralph I.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Decided I'm going to go out to LA for the
summer to just get closer to that. They love playing ball.
I love playing ball, and that's how I ended up
in La. It's surely because a new addition. My best
friend was an actor and he was on a show
called Teditor Class. I moved into Brian's living room for
the sammer. One of the girls on the show lived
right above him, and I fall in love for the
(13:39):
first time, and I said, you know what, I'm moving
So new audition that last around a year and a half.
The Stephen Rifkin Company just went into high gear quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
While on the road working records, Steve had built relationships
with many college radio DJs and stations across the country.
He'd leveraged those relationships into the launch of SRC, the
Steve Rifkin Company, his street marketing and radio promotion outfit.
As hip hop continued to grow, so too did the
opportunities to market it. And with access to the most
powerful college radio taste makers, Rifkin was able to break
(14:15):
records in local markets and charge labels handsomely.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
To do so, he used to come to New York
to dum up business for his company. Because most of
the labels were still in New York, and he'd sleep
on my couch and I'd do my law job, and
he'd go do what he did. I even really didn't
know what he was doing. And then at night we'd
meet up and he'd tell me what's going on, and
I would just be like, holy shit, what a cool
(14:39):
job he has. You know, the.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Coolness of his job was not lost on Steve either.
In fact, it was so cool that it bred a
bit of complacency and tempered his ambitions.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I got a name of Jerry Aid, who owned a
big talent agency. They were the premiere like urban agency. Goes,
you need your own label, and I'm like, Jerry, I
don't want my own label.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
He was, why not? I said, I'm doing good.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I'm making a few hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm done.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
At four o'clock. I go to the park and played well.
From five to seven a show. I go back to
your office. From eight to ten, I go home. I
really don't have pressure. Goes, will you please meet Paul Marshall.
I go I know Paul, that's my dad's attorney. He goes,
Please Stephen, He says, I can get you this crazy deal,
this that or whatever. I figured I was going to
just try and do everything myself. I had the money,
(15:21):
and then the second I walk into Rich's apartment, my
father calls. He goes, get to the house immediately, and
I'm trying to think to myself, what the fuck did
I do now? He goes, I heard you just turned
down a label deal. I said, nobody will ever mean anything.
Your lawyers said you could get me a label deal.
I said, I know if I want one, I said,
I'm doing good. I'm making two three hundred thousand a year.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
But Jules saw the bigger picture and made sure that
Steve did too.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
He goes, I know you don't listen to me, and
I know you think you have every answer. What you're
in is the service business. You're only as good as
your last contract. If you start a record company, you'll
be in the asset business and you'll be making money
when you league. So I spend a night, called up Paul.
In the morning, I said, I'm ready to get a deal.
You guys, there are two places where I want to send.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
You.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Got the name of Irving days Off, who just started
Giant Records, and I got the name of Lumla. BMG
just gave me like twenty million dollars to start like
the third major inside the BMG, I said, Irving is
my first choice. And I didn't really know Irving, and
I was nervous, and I went there wearing a shirt
tie and he said we have a deal, and it
says next time I see like, I don't want you
(16:28):
wearing a tie like be you. So I thought we
were doing this deal with Giant. So I'm like, all right,
we got to come with a name that goes with Giant.
Fate said Loud listening to the Urban Dialect.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
The name Loud is an acronym for the listeners of
an urban dialect, was created by Fabian Duruiney, who was
Steve's like right hand man at the time.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Despite the handshake deal with Irving, had a perfect label
name in Loud. Before the ink could dry. President of
Giant Records, Charlie Minor, would intervene and derail the negotiations.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
So Charlie I let him rest in peace was the
president of Giant.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Charlie didn't really want to be in the hip hop gang,
so we ended up at Zoo.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Although it wasn't his first choice. Steve did the label
deal with Zoo Records and began the process of building loud.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Rich was miserable being a lawyer. He was like working
in a closet and he was working from like seven
in the morning to like midnight, you know, and he
was miserable. And I said, Rich, why didn't you come
here and work with me? You know, I need structure.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
He said, dude, I got a label deal. This is happening.
You're ready to come into business with me. I'm like,
what are you talking about? You know. He goes look
and he shows me a piece of paper. You know,
it's like some deal memo. So I'm like, holy shit,
is this real? You know, it looks like it's real.
He convinces me to come out to LA for two
weeks for my vacation from my law job. So I
(17:47):
went out there. He picks me up in a BMW.
We go to dinner at some cool place in Beverly
Hills or whatever. The girls are beautiful places pop and
then we go to some studio there's some new girl
group that's doing dance rehearsals. And out of my head
spinning like this is ridiculous, we go back to his apartment.
(18:08):
He has a two bedroom duplex. I'm sitting on the
couch and he goes, how is your first day? I go,
what do you mean first day? He goes, we just
worked like the last six hours. They go, that's not work.
We went for dinner and we checked out a studio. Goes, dude,
that's work. That's what we did.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
The LAUD was still barely just more than a name.
SRC was doing independent radio promotion for all the majors
working records across the industry, including those of One Legend
in particular. More importantly, though, Steve's marketing company was paying
the bills to fund LOUD.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
At the time, and Scius to work in rspending with Tupac.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm like, this is crazy. I get totally sucked into this,
you know. And then the next two weeks I would
just go to meetings with him, hang out, watch what
was going on, and he's introducing me to people as
his general manager, and I'm like, okay, Steve. Whatever in
my eyes were like when I get back home, I
think it was like January. It's New York, dark, depressing,
(19:06):
my shitty little apartment facing the alley in my cubicle office,
and I'm going, why do I live like this? Like
what is wrong with you? You know, like what kind
of life is this? I could be there. He's like
on me. He's like, dude, you got to do this.
This is happening. So I figured out to like the
dime how much I needed to pay my student loans
to pay an apartment in LA. I said, give me
(19:27):
fifty two thousand dollars and a piece of the company
and I'll do it. He goes, no problem. So now
I have to tell my parents. I was really worried
to tell my dad. Surprisingly, my father, who was like
a really blue collar guy, he was so thrilled that
his son was a lawyer. And he goes, you know what,
if you're not happy, just go for it, you know,
(19:49):
so I don't worry about you. You'll be fine. So
that really gave me confidence to just give it a shot,
because that was the last thing I was expecting him
to say. So I gave notice at my law firm,
and I packed up and I went out to LA.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
However, when Rich touched down, he would quickly learn that
Steve's situation in La wasn't exactly as it seemed.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So he comes in on a Tuesday and Wednesday and
we're having meetings. So that weekend Prim is having a
dinner at this restaurant Clote Gang is Con It's a
Chinese restaurant in Fairfax. And I had a BMW three
twenty five and I give the car to the valet.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
His foot must have gotten stuck. The car goes in
reverse on Fairfax.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Lucky, how nobody dies, crosses over the divide a, swings
ran and returned back, going back into a gas station.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
What the fuck? And the car gets totaled. This is
Rich's first few days.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I was like, this really can't be a good luck
And then that Monday, I get the clote from Minutescope
that they're letting.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Us go Interscope was paying him a lot of money
and then they decided they're going to start their own
wrap division, so they stopped paying him, and he was
using that money to pay me. So I'm like shit.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
With s RC's income influx, Rich rolled up his sleeves
and immediately started trying to sort out Steve's businesses.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
The first week, I went to Steve's accountant's office and
I said, show me the books. I didn't even know
what that meant. It sounded like, you know something you're
supposed to do when you're in business. They hand me
this accordion file. Then I open it up and it's
just a bunch of bills that were unpaid. So I
take out a legal pad and a pen and I
start writing down a list of all the bills and
(21:32):
I'm like, okay, where's the money coming in? You know
that much? I knew. Then they showed me this tiny
little book with a couple of outstanding invoices, and I
write that down and I look. I go, wait, I
don't understand something. I go, he owes all these people
money and he only has this much coming in. And
the accountant goes, well, what do you mean? What don't
you understand? And I was like, holy shit, what have
(21:55):
I gotten myself into?
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Things looked a little bleak. But while Rich was fixing
the finance, Steve was in the street sourcing talent, and
through his SRC Street Team network, he would find Loud's
first act, a fast wrapping MC from Chicago who would
go on to become a legend.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Steve had one artist signed, and it was Tongue Twister,
who later became Twista so Loud Records at that time
was one twelve inch, wasn't even an album yet. A
first record was called No Peace Sign. Our deal with
Zoo at the time was they don't have to spend
any marketing money until we sell fifty thousand albums. So
fifty thousand albums, there's a lot of albums just to
(22:35):
sell on its own, you know. So again, well, probably
when Steve made the deal, he wasn't thinking about how's
this going to work? And I didn't make that deal,
and if I did, I wouldn't have known any better
at the time.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Anyway, in order to stay solvent as a business, Loud
needed to unlock that marketing money, so Steve and Rich
went all in on breaking tongue Twister, known for his
lightning fast wraps. The two applied to get Twisted in
the Guinness Book of World Records as the faster Rapper Alive,
and believe it or not, they managed to pull off
the extremely cheap but priceless marketing stunt live on YOUOMTV raps,
(23:08):
making their sole artist in overnight celebrity.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
We miraculously sell fifty thousand albums without any money. You know.
We got him on in the Guinness Book of Records.
He breaks Daddy Freddy's record on Yo MTV raps. We
got him on Power one oh six. It's pretty miraculous.
The head buyer for Warehouse Records, which is a big
music chain on the West Coast, was this woman Violet Brown,
who is an unsung hero in hip hop. Violet was
(23:35):
one of the early believers in hip hop music as
a lasting genre, and she was super powerful because her
blessing and her buying a record, putting music in the
stores was the only way to give an artist a chance.
Violet was based in la and she was tuned into
what we were doing. So Violet placed a huge order
(23:56):
for Tongue Twister, and I remember the head of sales
for Zoo, this woman Jane Simon Rest in Peace, lovely lady.
She called me up and she's like, you're not gonna
believe this. Dyla Brown just ordered twenty five thousand. We
have fifty thousand orders for Tongue Twisted, and I'm like,
holy shit, hang up the phone. I go into Steve's
office like we just won the world series, you know,
like we've been working on this for a year, and
(24:17):
we get to this magic fifty thousand unit threshold. Now
we can go into Lou Malley's office and make some demands,
you know, like we can get some marketing money and
really do our thing.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So we hit the threshold.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Lou clolls us well, high fiving each other like we're good,
you know, like we're get to see a few hundred
thousand dollars in marketing. And he says, guys, I got
some bad news.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
He goes, listen, guys, I gotta tell you I just
started this company. I'm already minus seventeen million for the year.
The Germans are killing me. Because that's what he used
to call BMG, the Germans. They were the corporate owners.
He's like, they're killing me. He goes, I don't have
an urban staff. I don't know what to do with
these records. I'm just going to let you go.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
He says, I run out of money, and they're closing
Zoo at the end of the year, and we're living
off of richest credit cards right the second, and I
think Rich is having an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I am ready to jump off a building at that point.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
While the loss of the deal with Zoo was gutting
for both Rich and Steve, it also presented a new opportunity.
They were now free agents with a modest hit record
under their bill, so they headed to the Jack the
Rapper convention in Atlanta in search of a new home
for Loud.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
We go to Atlanta for Jack the Rapper, which is
a big convention. Back then, this very important lawyer, Joel Katz.
If we go to meet with him, he's based in Atlanta.
Joel says, you know what's going on? Tell me a story,
and Steven tells him, you know, we just lost our deal.
And Joel says, hey, do you know who Ron Urban is?
Ron is the CEO of RCAA Records. He's working out
(25:50):
of my office. He's here in town. You guys should meet.
So Steve goes for drinks with Ron Urban that night.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
He goes, all right, so this is going to be
the deal. I'm going to give you five ten thousand
a month, her budgets to seventy five thousand for our albums,
and then you guys have funds for single deals, and
then we're going to pay you a fifteen thousand a
quarter to promote our recond So.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
We went from three thousand dollars a month and overhead
to five thousand dollars a month, which was holy cow,
and RCA was going to give us a thirty thousand
dollars quarterly marketing fund to do whatever we wanted. So
I'm thinking, wow, okay, this is a big stump up.
You know, we're in the major leagues. It's RCA. We're
(26:33):
getting one hundred and twenty thousand in marketing, our overhead
sixty thousand. Now I'm like, okay, we're in business. So
Steve really pulled a rabbit out of his ass to
make this happen. So we signed the Alcoholics, and the
Alcoholics debuted number seventeen on the R and B album chart,
and RCA hadn't had an R and B album chart
(26:56):
in years, So we are being celebrated, like who are
these guys? You know, all of a sudden, we are
like these two guys walking around the building too. Oh
I got I gotta have a relationship with Stephen Rich
because of the Alcoholics.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
The success of the Alcoholics put LOUD on the map
and Steve and Rich were the new darlings at RCA.
Not only were they signing artists and charting records, but
they were also handling radio promotion for their parent company,
Loud was finally starting to experience a real momentum, and
this was just the beginning. Meanwhile, in Staten Island, a
hip hop of Systeen was forging connections that would make
(27:33):
both him and his network of new friends extremely consequential
characters in the Loud story.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
I'm from Staaten Island, so from Chatland around that time,
I was one of the few brothers to get off
the island and then go away to school.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
This is Scott Free eventual A and R at Loud Records.
At this point, though, he was just an aspiring rapper
from Staten Island in a group called the Legion of Doom.
This would lead him to befriending other local MC's, including
a buddy star from an adjacent neighborhood named Prince Rakeem
better known to the world as the Rizza.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Rizza was one of the one of the cats that
every now and then we get off the island, you know,
we take trips to Bronx River, we go to Brooklyn
and we look for records stuff like that. I think
he had a crib with ghosts. Him and Ghosts had
a spot Stapleton. But you know, unlike the rest of us,
Rizz was pretty much living on his own, you know, hustling,
but he had he had the equipment, you know what
(28:30):
I mean. I went to University of Maryland, College Parking,
continue my hip hop education however you want to put
it down there. But you know, I still stayed in
touch with my boys from from the Island.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Well Scott attended University of Maryland. He would make frequent
trips with his friends to nearby Howard University. One weekend,
the Rizza, then signed to Tommy Boy Records as Prince
Rakeem decided to join them.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
Rakeem had come down for the Howard Hip Hop Festival
and me and the cru since we were down there
and we scooped them out from the am track that
someone whatever that was, he had dropped sexicapaides and Ooh
we love you Rakim, Ooh we love you. Rakim had
had a video Sessica page was like on the B side.
I could see what he was trying to do, you
know what I mean. He was trying to peel a
(29:13):
little bit more outside of the box or whatever. But
it wasn't really what I was used to hearing from him.
What he was doing, you know, on a regular and
you know what I was later on started to hear
you know from him and his crew.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
While riz ahone did on his sound Howard Homecoming would
introduce Scott to another main character in the Loud story,
Maddie C, a young writer at the Source magazine. Maddy
penned the famed Unsigned Hype column, which would put a
spotlight on and ignite the careers of artists like Notorious,
Big Common and Mob Deep.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
So Scott Free at the time was in MC and
he was bringing me his demo material. We met in
college through mutual friends, and so he started coming up
to the Source a lot.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
This is Matti C, future director of A and R
at Loud.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
First playing me demos by his group the Legion of Doom,
and then a couple of other things from Staten Island.
Mainly he knew Rizza and had been to his crib
as just another Staten Island MC that was coming through
to possibly record share music. And the first thing that
Scott let me hear was a song called Rugged and
Raw when the WU was just Rizza, Jizza and ODB
(30:21):
and it was just them three on the song.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
This record was phenomenal to this, you know, to this day,
I still try to sometimes go through my tapes to
see if that record pops up right.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
You know, it's old dirties.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
It's like it's rugged in roll, it's ruggoed in roll.
Then he comes in fook a fuck a fuck a
fuck of Foo from out of the Blue, first number two.
Theygas won a step to the Wu Tank, you know
what I mean, Dirty had that whole that whole steeze
down pad at that.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Point, and then a couple other people started showing up
at my office talking to me about Wu Tang just
kind of beat this buzz.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Wizza had blessed me with the protective next single and
was like, yo, yo, take this up to your boys
up there. Let them hear you know what we're working on.
So I took the joint to Matt. He would do
a write up on whatever new twelve inches were coming
out at the time. That became the first, I think
independent twelve inch to be profiled in the Source.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
The guys started coming up to the office to source
Rizza a Meth, all of them. Rizza would be the
main one who would come up as well as Meth
and just kind of play music, listen to music and
talk about the planet and we go into the stairway
smoke weed, and he would talk about his plan to
(31:35):
get individual deals for each of these artists before I
think there was an actual plan for the whole group
per se, you know, in place, and at this time
was when he was envisioning this all as an independent thing.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Matty's right up on Protecting Neck in the source of
shureshot single column, legitimize the record and put the very local,
very independent group in front of a national audience. With
Wu Tang gaining serious buzz. It wasn't long until the
track landed on the radar of Steve and Rich.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
We had a guy that worked for us named Trevor Williams,
one of our LA based guys who called the college
radio and he used to talk to this DJ named
Jason Stateon. He's a college radio DJ, and Jason, just
as a hip hop fan, sent protect Your Neck and
he flipped and he sent Trevor the viron. I'm like, dude,
you got to hear this record.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
So trev gives me the record. I just quit smoking
like a week ago. I'm just like, I'm losing my mind.
I go, there's no fucking hook to this song. Trevor
goes is the biggest record in the world.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Trevor plays it in the office just as you got
to hear this crazy shit, and everybody's like, WHOA, what
is that? Steve hears it, he what is that? We
make some calls, He makes some calls. Everybody's trying to
find out what the deal is in Wu Tang and
Steve tracks down Rizza.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
So this is in January. I'm trying to get in
touch with Rizza. I've spoke to him once, but he
has no answering machine. I go to New York for
my thirty first birthday. I'm at RCA. The reception goes
print trak hemans here. I'm like really, and he comes up.
He goes, the guys are downstairs, can we come up
and played the record? They come up, there's eight of them,
and the officers just picture what a guest office looks like.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
It's a closet, and they stop performing the record. Some
guy comes.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Barging in and says, that's that shit, and I never
seen him again. I signed not because I loved the record,
I love the energy. Whatever that fucking guy was. And
Trevor beating the fuck out of me. He's saying that's
that shit we start negotiating.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Rizzi was kind of jaded in the music business because
he had a bad experience with Tommy Boy when he
put out his own record. So he decided, I'm going
to do this myself. You know, I guess he liked us,
felt secure enough to do this deal with us, and
we said, look, this is all we can offer you.
You know, we're with the RCA. So we made a deal.
We get Protection Act at B side and the video
(33:56):
for Protecting Act for ten thousand dollars and eighteen boys,
and then if we sell fifty thousand units of the single,
we have to put out an album. We have to
give them the money to make an album. That was
the deal. Rizza said, Okay, I'll do it. One caveat,
Rizza said, he'll do the deal if he's allowed to
shop the solo artist. I have to be able to
take the guys to different labels.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So the guys had a deal, or so they thought. Unfortunately,
Rizzus one caveat was a much bigger ask that either
Steve or Rich had anticipated.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
There's this inherent small print in every record deal when
you sign a group that if any of you guys
go solo.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
That stays with us.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
So the idea that Rizza saw this guy Steve.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Rifkin as like, oh, you're gonna give me a deal
and we can go solo because that's unheard of, And
so I think Steve didn't really know.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
That that was unheard of. So we go to RCA
Business Affairs and say this is the terms they want,
this little caveat that they could sign the artists to
other labels, and they go no, no, no, no, no, not happening,
Like what do you mean? You know, there is the
thing in the music industry that standard called a leaving
member provision whatever. We could get this band for ten
thousand dollars a song selling like not happening. We can't
(35:10):
change this precedent. This has been going on in the
music industry forever. So from somebody who wasn't in the
music business to me, I'm like, this makes no sense.
Of course, Steve's apoplectic about this as well. How are
we going to not keep this band? And they kind
of business affairs at RCAA, who was kind of like
a rabbi to me, this guy Rogers Skelton, Roger said
I'll help you out. I'm going to come up with
(35:31):
a solution. So he goes and talks to his bosses
and he comes back and he says, Okay, here's what
we'll agree to do. If they agree that we have
a matching right to any offer that they get, and
if we match that offer, they have to stay with
RCA loud so Rizza says fine, And so that was
a great solution that had never been done before, believe
it or not, in the history of the music business.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Rich got the Wu Tang deal across the finish line,
but in the process made a costly oversight by giving
Wu Tang Clan and astounding eighteen points.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Steve's unbelievably good at relationships, drumming up business marketing himself,
connecting the right people, finding the right people, but no
clue as to the business side of things, and that
was why he brought me in. Little did he know
that I didn't know anything. For instance, when we signed
Wu Tang Clan, you know, I knew what our agreement
was at the time. I think we got fifteen points
(36:23):
for a single from RCA and I did the deal.
You know, at that time, I thought I was learning
something and we had no money to pay a lawyer
even so I was like, okay, I'll get a form.
I'll read the Donald Passman book. And I had a
couple of friends that were lawyers in the business. At
that point, I said, can you send me a production
deal form? So I kind of cut and paste a
(36:44):
production deal and stupidly, I ended up giving Wu Tang
eighteen points for each single that they sold, and we
only were getting fifteen points. It didn't dawn on me
to look until Wu Tang started selling. I remember I
looked at the contract that I drafted, and then I
looked at the contract we had with RCA, and I
(37:05):
was like, holy shit, what an idiot. We're losing money
every time we sell a record. And I went to
the head of business affairs at RCA and I told
him what I had done, and he's like, don't worry
about it. You know, we'll fix it. Because they were
making so much money, it was negligible and he took
care of made it.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
In fact, the single for Protecting It, backed with method Man,
was selling so well the group's members started fielding solo
offers long before Wu Tang's debut album Ever hit shows. Still,
despite all that buzz, the group couldn't get the attention
of RCA's top brass.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
By the time we closed our Wu Tang deal, now
def Jam offered method Man one hundred and eighty grand.
We go to RCA and said, we're gonna lose nothing, man,
you got to give us one hundred and eighty grand,
and they're looking at us like you're crazy. We're not
giving you one hundred and eighty grand for this unknown
hip hop gun. We'd sit around the table at RCA
and all the guys that were running the department's great people,
(38:02):
great executives, but they all came from Nashville. The president
of the company was from RCA Nashville. The head of
marketing was from RCA, Nashville. The head of sales was
from RCA, Nashville. So they're like guys doing country music
who are now running a major label in New York
and we're coming to them with hip hop records by
the Wu Tang Clan and ghost Face Killer and Jizz.
(38:24):
So they would laugh. They would literally sit in the
meetings and laugh when we'd say the names of the
guys that were in the band. They're like, oh, it
sounds like Chinese food, and we're like how are we
going to get these guys to understand what this is.
Speaker 7 (38:35):
I was working at RCA LA and they weren't really helping.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
This is Joseph Mojo Nicosia, a veteran New York City
club DJ turned radio promotion executive. Mojo worked at Loud's
parent company RCA and would become Louds inside man. As
Steven Rich's operation grew, they would eventually bring Mojo on
board as one of their vps of radio promo.
Speaker 7 (38:58):
Steve and I Matt and he almost got a fight
with Terry Anzalder, who is my boss on the West Coast.
He was trying to talk to this guy to go
to radio with Wu Tang Clan and he just wasn't
hearing it, and Steve and him almost got in a fight.
I like got in the middle of it and he left.
Terry looked at me as he's a piece worker. I've said,
at least he gives a shit about his artist. We
(39:20):
should be helping him. And that's when I decided I
was going to help him.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
So while Steve was ready to physically fight people in
the office to get the machine behind his artists, and
he did start to make some allies in the building
along the way, it wasn't enough to hold on to
most of the Wu Tang Solo deals.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
So they wouldn't agree to Method Man one hundred and eighty.
So we lost Old Dirty and we lost Method Man,
and then you know, we kind of had a wink
and a nod understanding with Rizza at that point, and
he said, look, I have a plan. I want to
have my own label and I'm going to have ghost
Face signed to me, and if you guys can make
us a good deal, you guys could keep Ray Kwan.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
With Wu Tang soloists spreading out across the industry, Riza
wanted to make sure that he was on top of
everything going on with the group's debut project at Loud,
so we hit Scott Free and asked him to be
the group's A and R to ensure that he had
an inside man working at the label.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
So once that started going down, Rizzarth told me, oh,
go get in touch with this guy named Steve Ifkin
go check him out. We need somebody up in the
office like watching our ass and helping us out with
this with this shit. I gave Steve a call. He
got back to me and was like, let's sit down,
let's talk. He had told Stretch Armstrong that he was
gonna sit down with me, and Stretch was a good
(40:34):
good friend of mine, and Stretch definitely gave the co
sign or something like yo free would be good in
helping you, you know, with A and R shit. He's
got good ears and good dude and this and this
and that. So Stretch kind of gave me like a
real big co sign with Steve.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Armed with a co sign from underground radio DJ Stretch
Armstrong and a personal connection to Rizza. Scott became the
first official New York employee at Loud Records. With Scott
in place to help Wu Tang negate the loud system,
Steven Rich would lean on Mojo to get the RCA
machine behind the group.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
We went and saw Wu Tang Clan perform, and then
I went into Butchwa's office and said, Okay, what's my budget.
He gave me the numbers and I said, I'm going
to put the whole thing on Wu Tang Clan and
Loud Records. We had a big argument and I said,
if it's my department, that's what I want to do,
and he let.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Me do it.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
I think it was within four days. I had them
in vans and we were driving all over the place
trying to break their record. In the van, they played
Wu Tang clean all the time, entered the thirty six
chambers over and over and over and over. So at
one point it really hit me like how unbelievable it was.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
I became possessed.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Riza had this style of the way that he got me.
Speaker 7 (41:48):
He would get everyone on the road, he would explain
what the metaphors in their lyrics were, and I remember
he said, we're going to spread this like a virus.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 7 (41:59):
Risa was all so he made milestones of where the
p and ls and sales were going to be, and
he was pretty much right the whole way. They worked hard,
They worked really hard. They were out there going for it,
and that's what really built LOUD was that we were
just jumping vans and go.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Just like Riza plan, Wu Tang was spreading like a virus.
The group and the entire staff at LOUD knew the
ensemble was special, but none of them had any clue
how far The group's debut entered. The Wu Tang was
about to take them all, but on the night of
the album's release, both partners would be made fully aware.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
The night of the Wu Tang album release party, we
had dinner with the president of RCA kind of to
celebrate the success of the alcoholics, Like that was a
big deal, Like we're getting acknowledged. The President's giving us
a dinner. We went from that dinner to Webster Hall
and we were about three blocks away from Webster Hall
and all the streets are closed off. I'm like, what
(42:54):
is going on here? We think there's like a police issue.
So we get out of the cab, so let's just
walk because we're gonna be late for this party. And
we'd come around the block and we see the line
wrapping around the corner and we look at each other
and we're like, holy shit, this is for our event.
This was for the Wu Tang album release party. And
(43:14):
we're just looking at each other in disbelief. Like we
knew Wu Tang was happening, but we had no idea
what a big sensation it was gonna be until that night.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Steve and Rich had witnessed Wu Tang Mania with their
own eyes, but neither could have expected the global phenomenon
The group would become. From starting with the Novelty Act
to signing the greatest group in hip hop history. LAD
was now on its way to becoming the hottest label
in wrap. However, as quickly as the company would rise
to the top, it would soon all come crashing down.
(43:50):
But to hear the heights of the label's success and
how it all unraveled, you're gonna have to tune into
Part two of the Lab record story right here on
Idea Generations All Angles. This episode was brought to you
by Will Packer, Executive produced by John Valachick and Helena Ox,
(44:11):
original music by Valentine Fritz, edit and sound mixed by
Nonsensible Production, and hosted by me Idea Generation founder Noah
Callahan beveret. Idea Generation's All Angles is a Will Packer
Media podcast
So he goes, listen, guys, I gotta tell you this company.
I'm already minus seventeen million for the year. I don't
know what to do with these records. I'm just gonna
let you go.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
He says.
Speaker 3 (00:11):
I run out of money, and they're closing at the
end of the year, and we're living off of riches
credit cards right the second, and I think Rich is
having an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
I am ready to jump off a building at that point.
Speaker 4 (00:28):
Welcome to Idea Generations All Angles, a podcast about culture's
most influential brands and the teams that build them. If
you're an entrepreneur, creative, or anyone interested in harnessing the
power of collaboration, join me Noah Callahan Bever each week
as we dissect the most dynamic companies in culture, because
the only way to truly understand success is to look
(00:51):
at it from all angles. Idea Generations All Angles is
a Will Packer Media podcast. In nineteen ninety one, Steve
Rifkin founded Loud Records, and in the decade that followed,
Loud would cultivate one of the most iconic rosters in
(01:12):
hip hop history, including Wu Tang, Clan, Mob, Deep, Big Pun,
three six, Mafia, Dead pres and the Alcoholics. But the
label's success was a product of more than just one
man's effort. Loud was the confluence of Rifkin's vision and network,
childhood friend and partner Rich Isaacson's iron fisted governance, and
the impeccable taste, tone and tireless efforts of an ensemble
(01:35):
cast of hip hop obsessed young staffers, not to mention
the timeless art of some of the most talented rappers
and producers to ever pick up a mic or tap
on a beat machine. On this week's episode, we talked
to founders Rifkin and Isaacson, A and R's Mattie C.
Scott Free and Shaun Sea Radio VP Mojo, as well
(01:55):
as Havoc from Mob Deep to hear the full story
of how Loud Records grew from a one room office
on Melrose ab to one of the most successful record
labels of the nineties, and how the inspired chaos that
fueled their rise ultimately also contributed to the legendary labels undoing.
But long before any of that happened, decades prior to
Cloud selling a single record, there were just two best
(02:16):
friends driving home from soccer practice in Merrick Long Island.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
Steve and I grew up together in Merrick Long Island.
Speaker 4 (02:24):
This is Rich Isaacson, co founder of Loud Records.
Speaker 1 (02:27):
It was kind of one of those neighborhoods where everybody
played out in the street, so we knew each other
just from being kids in the same neighborhood.
Speaker 2 (02:34):
So Marrick had a north side and a south side.
Speaker 3 (02:38):
The north side was all Irish, the south side was
mostly Jews and Italians.
Speaker 4 (02:43):
This is Steve Rifkint, founder of Loud Records.
Speaker 3 (02:47):
So there would be fights pretty much every day that
we went to school.
Speaker 1 (02:53):
Steve and I grew up a couple of blocks away
from each other, so kind of in each other's lives
since we were literally little kids. Teenage, then high school,
and we got really close, I would say in high school.
He was a senior in high school when I was
in tenth grade. We were both on the soccer team.
He was on Varsie and I was on JB and
you know, we knew each other, but he was like
(03:13):
the big kid and I was really little at that point.
So Steve was driving and I didn't drive yet at
that time, so he would take me home from practice
or pick me up, and he makes a joke that
I had to pay him, and he tells that story like, oh,
Ritchie's to pay just to hang out with me.
Speaker 4 (03:29):
Though Steve was raised in a mundane suburb of Long Island,
his childhood was anything but ordinary. The Rifkin family was
a music industry dynasty. Steve's grandfather had run a popular
nightclub on Queen's Boulevard, and Steve's father and uncle, Jules
and Roy Rifkin, were hugely successful in radio promotion and
early champions of R and B and soul music. Jewles
had been a senior executive at both MGM and Bang Records,
(03:52):
was a confidant of James Brown, and would eventually launch
his own label under Polydor Spring Records. So it was
almost a given that and his younger brother Jonathan would
add onto the family's legacy and the music biz.
Speaker 3 (04:05):
My house, we could only listen to WBLS. BLS was
the only black station in the one or seven point five,
so everybody else was listening to the Rolling Stones, Led Zeppelin, Beatles,
Pink Floyd, you know, whatever the rock and pop stuff was.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
I had no clue what it was.
Speaker 1 (04:23):
His dad was in the music business, and that household
was really pretty exotic for Merrick, Long Island.
Speaker 3 (04:29):
He had any given time, that could be a lomo
at the house and it could be James Brown, it
could be Millie Jackson, it would be somebody from the
Fat Back Band. It could be Kenny gamble E Leon Huff,
who was the biggest producers.
Speaker 4 (04:44):
Founded in nineteen sixty seven by Steve's father, Jules brother
Royd and friend Bill Spittalaski, Spring Records ushered in a
generation of classic R and B, funk and soul, including
superstars like Joe Simon and Millie Jackson, and by virtue
of kicking it in Jewels living room, even Rich got
front row seats to witness how the music industry really worked.
Speaker 1 (05:04):
The Spring Records had classic, amazing R and B, and
then later on Steve and his dad put out what
many considered the first hip hop record of all time,
which was King Tim the Third by the Fat Back Band.
Steve wasn't exactly a student that didn't care about seeing
A student had a learning disability.
Speaker 3 (05:22):
I didn't know how to read a write till I
was on to fifteen years old. I was majorly dyslexic.
Nobody knew what that was then, so they sent me
to Julie. I didn't have to sleep there. The little
bus would come. They would come into the bus and
then they would take me to a school. And my
parents they tried their best with me.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
They even believe me. I really thought.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
Up until my senior year in high school, my dream
was the NBA. My dad took me to a record
convention one time and it was a took him that hotel,
and I was like, all right, this is kind of cool,
but it really didn't do anything into me.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
I think he went to college for a day or
a week or something like that, and he's like, this
isn't for me.
Speaker 4 (06:00):
Seeing Steve drop out of college without any plans prompted
Jewels and Grandpa Ripken to call a meeting with Steve.
And the outcome of that conversation, well, it would set
off his career in the music industry.
Speaker 3 (06:10):
My grandfather called me, he goes, why don't you do
what your cousin did. I'm like, what did my cousin do?
He goes, he went to visit radio stations. Two weeks later,
my grandfather called me, he just pick me up at
the airport and he goes, we'll haveing lunch with your father.
Speaker 2 (06:22):
We go to lunch.
Speaker 3 (06:22):
They you're gonna go to visit some radio stations. You'll
fly back to Florida with Grandpa, and then from there.
They gave me a route of where and there was
always somebody there. My first off was Florida. I don't
know how to read a map. I got ten dollars
worth a quarters and forty grand and gash and my
father says, if you disappear, you're dead. First stop. I
(06:43):
went from Fort Lada of Florida to Alabama, and I
met a guy a name with Dave Clark. Dave Clark
ran the South from a promotion side of things, and
he's introducing me to like program directed and I just
really did a lot of listening and I introduced myself
and I just kept in touch.
Speaker 2 (07:01):
Day didn't ask me.
Speaker 3 (07:02):
To hang out with them, and I was like, where's
the local college.
Speaker 4 (07:06):
Being much younger than the pds and radio vets, Steve
headed to the local colleges, both the work his dad's
records with the DJs, but also to party with people
his own age. This routine would continue for the next
couple of years. Steve would visit college towns, build relationships
with the local DJs, and get his records played on
their stations. Ultimately, this network of radio taste makers would
(07:26):
become the foundation of Steve's career.
Speaker 3 (07:28):
From mobile to making Georgia and then New Orleans and
I'd go back to the colleges again, and that three
weeks ended up being three years where I would zig
zag all across the country.
Speaker 2 (07:40):
So that's how the whole street Team concept came together.
Speaker 4 (07:45):
After a few years on the road, Steve found himself
back in New York City surfacing records to Frankie Crocker,
a record breaking icon at WBLS, the number one black
music station in the Tri State. One Saturday night, Steve
got an opportunity to roll with Crocker that would both
open his eyes and transform his business.
Speaker 3 (08:02):
So this is when I'm around twenty twenty one. I'm
at BLS Radio and then May James, who is the
music director, said Frankie wants to talk to you. He
goes hey, does your dad still get the limos My
dad definanced the limousine company Music Express. I'm like, I
don't know, let's call him. Frankie goes hey, Julie, do
you still have the thing? He goes, yeah. He goes,
(08:23):
I need one for Saturday night. My dad goes, you
have no problem, but let's Steven go with you. So
I'm like, where are we going? He goes, We're going
to the garage.
Speaker 4 (08:31):
The garage wasn't just any nightclub. This was the home
of DJ legend Larry Levine, who, from a later than
late night underground club in downtown Manhattan, broke the sounds
of disco and dance that would define pop music for
a decade plus.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
It was a club and it opened up at six
in the morning. Frankie's come to the house around three
in the morning, go to the house, we go to
Studio fifty four, We go to another club, Magique, and
now it's time to go to the garage. He's not
telling me anything, right, So around like an hour later,
he disappears. I'm by myself. He's by the DJ booth
(09:07):
and he's not talking to Larry. He's just literally like
eyeing the tiger. I'm like, what is he doing? So
in between eight o'clock in the morning to nine o'clock
in the morning, whatever Larry played, Frankie was adding to
the radio station.
Speaker 4 (09:22):
Having seen Frankie's system of music discovery, Steve got an
idea on how to capitalize on Larry's golden hour picks.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
So I'm calling Atlantic Records or Epic Record. I'm like, hey,
I could get your Shannon record. I'm just making up
a name. I could get your Shannon record. At it
to BLS tomorrow.
Speaker 2 (09:38):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (09:38):
See, there's no fucking way. I'm like, I promise you
who goes if you get it?
Speaker 2 (09:42):
How much you want? Five grand?
Speaker 3 (09:44):
There was a label called Next Plateau. I called that
was seed Bank One more shot, and I nailed all
three records, So I made fifteen grand. Nobody knows. I'm
not telling my dad. I'm not telling anybody. I'm twenty
two years old. I'm making fifteen grand a week now,
so I'm making a name for myself. That PolyGram puts
me on retainer, not for a lot of money, for
(10:04):
like five hundreds a week, but I'm still getting those records.
Speaker 4 (10:08):
By getting those records, Steve means that he would watch
the songs that Larry played during the peak hours on
Sunday morning, knowing that Frankie Crocker would likely add them
to regular rotation on bls that week, and then first
thing Monday morning, he would call the labels behind each
song that Larry played and offer for a fee to
(10:29):
get those records in rotation, knowing full well that Frankie
was about to do it. Anyways, Frankie he.
Speaker 3 (10:37):
Had two assistants, Delfina and Beth, and I'm like, just
tell Frankie every Saturday, I'm gonna go up to the garage.
I had a good run with that two three months
until I'm dropping off Popeye's Chicken to Frankie. It's a Thursday,
and I walk in and there's my father and uncle
and m and it's like a scene out of the Mafia.
Speaker 2 (10:56):
And I'm like, what's up?
Speaker 3 (10:58):
And my uncle has a temper and he slammed the
fucking a table and he's like, how long do you
think you could have done this without telling us? I'm like,
what do you mean? He goes, we know what you're doing.
I'm like, all right, I didn't know I had to
tell you. And so Frankie's laughing and he said the
same thing, goes, man, you guys really think you're some
mafia guys.
Speaker 2 (11:17):
Frank He goes, when.
Speaker 3 (11:18):
Did you realize I realized the first week, he goes, well,
how did you realize? I said, you was just staring
and listening and you weren't writing notes, but you were
like giving yourself a mental note and I just watched.
And then the next week you left me again. At
the same time, he goes, man, that's pretty brilliant you.
So my uncle says, well, how much did you make?
(11:40):
I said I was making around fifteen to twenty grand
a week, and they said, well, you got to give
us a piece. And I was like, you're out of
your fucking mind, like you're not getting a piece. I
didn't give him a piece, but you know, we definitely
had words, and I mean after money was going up
my nose anyway.
Speaker 4 (11:55):
In those days, will Steve played fast and loose, rich
walked a straight and narrow when it came to his career.
Speaker 1 (12:06):
When I decided to go to law school, it was
more like, Okay, I need to have a profession, you know,
I need to have some kind of security in life.
I was always more of a realist than I was
a good student, and I figured this is a career
path for me, and it gives me a bunch of
opportunities to do different things. I went to an Ivy
League law school, I had student loans, I had debt.
Come out of law school, I worked for a big
(12:27):
corporate law firm. You know, I think I'm at the
pinnacle of the success that I was trying to achieve
as a kid. Making one hundred grand at the time,
which was in the eighties, I thought I was like rich,
and I think I've made it. And every day it
was just it was like being a professional student. You
have a homework assignment every night. You're never done and
it never stops. And I was working, you know, seventy
(12:48):
five eighty hours a week, writing briefs, doing research in
the library on the weekend. It was just awful. I'm
doing that. I have an apartment on the Upper West Side,
thinking it's the coolest thing in the world, even though
I hate my job. And Steve's now in LA.
Speaker 4 (13:04):
Steve wasn't in La by happenstays. He and Fred Hiram
Hicks had gotten win at Mega R and b act
New Audition. We're in the market for new management, so
Steve moved to LA to cement a relationship with Mike, Ronnie, Ricky,
Johnny and Ralph I.
Speaker 3 (13:18):
Decided I'm going to go out to LA for the
summer to just get closer to that. They love playing ball.
I love playing ball, and that's how I ended up
in La. It's surely because a new addition. My best
friend was an actor and he was on a show
called Teditor Class. I moved into Brian's living room for
the sammer. One of the girls on the show lived
right above him, and I fall in love for the
(13:39):
first time, and I said, you know what, I'm moving
So new audition that last around a year and a half.
The Stephen Rifkin Company just went into high gear quickly.
Speaker 4 (13:53):
While on the road working records, Steve had built relationships
with many college radio DJs and stations across the country.
He'd leveraged those relationships into the launch of SRC, the
Steve Rifkin Company, his street marketing and radio promotion outfit.
As hip hop continued to grow, so too did the
opportunities to market it. And with access to the most
powerful college radio taste makers, Rifkin was able to break
(14:15):
records in local markets and charge labels handsomely.
Speaker 1 (14:18):
To do so, he used to come to New York
to dum up business for his company. Because most of
the labels were still in New York, and he'd sleep
on my couch and I'd do my law job, and
he'd go do what he did. I even really didn't
know what he was doing. And then at night we'd
meet up and he'd tell me what's going on, and
I would just be like, holy shit, what a cool
(14:39):
job he has. You know, the.
Speaker 4 (14:41):
Coolness of his job was not lost on Steve either.
In fact, it was so cool that it bred a
bit of complacency and tempered his ambitions.
Speaker 3 (14:48):
I got a name of Jerry Aid, who owned a
big talent agency. They were the premiere like urban agency. Goes,
you need your own label, and I'm like, Jerry, I
don't want my own label.
Speaker 2 (14:57):
He was, why not? I said, I'm doing good.
Speaker 3 (14:59):
I'm making a few hundred thousand dollars a year.
Speaker 2 (15:01):
I'm done.
Speaker 3 (15:01):
At four o'clock. I go to the park and played well.
From five to seven a show. I go back to
your office. From eight to ten, I go home. I
really don't have pressure. Goes, will you please meet Paul Marshall.
I go I know Paul, that's my dad's attorney. He goes,
Please Stephen, He says, I can get you this crazy deal,
this that or whatever. I figured I was going to
just try and do everything myself. I had the money,
(15:21):
and then the second I walk into Rich's apartment, my
father calls. He goes, get to the house immediately, and
I'm trying to think to myself, what the fuck did
I do now? He goes, I heard you just turned
down a label deal. I said, nobody will ever mean anything.
Your lawyers said you could get me a label deal.
I said, I know if I want one, I said,
I'm doing good. I'm making two three hundred thousand a year.
Speaker 4 (15:43):
But Jules saw the bigger picture and made sure that
Steve did too.
Speaker 3 (15:47):
He goes, I know you don't listen to me, and
I know you think you have every answer. What you're
in is the service business. You're only as good as
your last contract. If you start a record company, you'll
be in the asset business and you'll be making money
when you league. So I spend a night, called up Paul.
In the morning, I said, I'm ready to get a deal.
You guys, there are two places where I want to send.
Speaker 4 (16:07):
You.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
Got the name of Irving days Off, who just started
Giant Records, and I got the name of Lumla. BMG
just gave me like twenty million dollars to start like
the third major inside the BMG, I said, Irving is
my first choice. And I didn't really know Irving, and
I was nervous, and I went there wearing a shirt
tie and he said we have a deal, and it
says next time I see like, I don't want you
(16:28):
wearing a tie like be you. So I thought we
were doing this deal with Giant. So I'm like, all right,
we got to come with a name that goes with Giant.
Fate said Loud listening to the Urban Dialect.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
The name Loud is an acronym for the listeners of
an urban dialect, was created by Fabian Duruiney, who was
Steve's like right hand man at the time.
Speaker 4 (16:48):
Despite the handshake deal with Irving, had a perfect label
name in Loud. Before the ink could dry. President of
Giant Records, Charlie Minor, would intervene and derail the negotiations.
Speaker 2 (16:59):
So Charlie I let him rest in peace was the
president of Giant.
Speaker 3 (17:03):
Charlie didn't really want to be in the hip hop gang,
so we ended up at Zoo.
Speaker 4 (17:08):
Although it wasn't his first choice. Steve did the label
deal with Zoo Records and began the process of building loud.
Speaker 3 (17:14):
Rich was miserable being a lawyer. He was like working
in a closet and he was working from like seven
in the morning to like midnight, you know, and he
was miserable. And I said, Rich, why didn't you come
here and work with me? You know, I need structure.
Speaker 1 (17:25):
He said, dude, I got a label deal. This is happening.
You're ready to come into business with me. I'm like,
what are you talking about? You know. He goes look
and he shows me a piece of paper. You know,
it's like some deal memo. So I'm like, holy shit,
is this real? You know, it looks like it's real.
He convinces me to come out to LA for two
weeks for my vacation from my law job. So I
(17:47):
went out there. He picks me up in a BMW.
We go to dinner at some cool place in Beverly
Hills or whatever. The girls are beautiful places pop and
then we go to some studio there's some new girl
group that's doing dance rehearsals. And out of my head
spinning like this is ridiculous, we go back to his apartment.
(18:08):
He has a two bedroom duplex. I'm sitting on the
couch and he goes, how is your first day? I go,
what do you mean first day? He goes, we just
worked like the last six hours. They go, that's not work.
We went for dinner and we checked out a studio. Goes, dude,
that's work. That's what we did.
Speaker 4 (18:26):
The LAUD was still barely just more than a name.
SRC was doing independent radio promotion for all the majors
working records across the industry, including those of One Legend
in particular. More importantly, though, Steve's marketing company was paying
the bills to fund LOUD.
Speaker 3 (18:41):
At the time, and Scius to work in rspending with Tupac.
Speaker 1 (18:45):
I'm like, this is crazy. I get totally sucked into this,
you know. And then the next two weeks I would
just go to meetings with him, hang out, watch what
was going on, and he's introducing me to people as
his general manager, and I'm like, okay, Steve. Whatever in
my eyes were like when I get back home, I
think it was like January. It's New York, dark, depressing,
(19:06):
my shitty little apartment facing the alley in my cubicle office,
and I'm going, why do I live like this? Like
what is wrong with you? You know, like what kind
of life is this? I could be there. He's like
on me. He's like, dude, you got to do this.
This is happening. So I figured out to like the
dime how much I needed to pay my student loans
to pay an apartment in LA. I said, give me
(19:27):
fifty two thousand dollars and a piece of the company
and I'll do it. He goes, no problem. So now
I have to tell my parents. I was really worried
to tell my dad. Surprisingly, my father, who was like
a really blue collar guy, he was so thrilled that
his son was a lawyer. And he goes, you know what,
if you're not happy, just go for it, you know,
(19:49):
so I don't worry about you. You'll be fine. So
that really gave me confidence to just give it a shot,
because that was the last thing I was expecting him
to say. So I gave notice at my law firm,
and I packed up and I went out to LA.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
However, when Rich touched down, he would quickly learn that
Steve's situation in La wasn't exactly as it seemed.
Speaker 3 (20:14):
So he comes in on a Tuesday and Wednesday and
we're having meetings. So that weekend Prim is having a
dinner at this restaurant Clote Gang is Con It's a
Chinese restaurant in Fairfax. And I had a BMW three
twenty five and I give the car to the valet.
Speaker 2 (20:28):
His foot must have gotten stuck. The car goes in
reverse on Fairfax.
Speaker 3 (20:33):
Lucky, how nobody dies, crosses over the divide a, swings
ran and returned back, going back into a gas station.
Speaker 2 (20:40):
What the fuck? And the car gets totaled. This is
Rich's first few days.
Speaker 3 (20:45):
I was like, this really can't be a good luck
And then that Monday, I get the clote from Minutescope
that they're letting.
Speaker 1 (20:50):
Us go Interscope was paying him a lot of money
and then they decided they're going to start their own
wrap division, so they stopped paying him, and he was
using that money to pay me. So I'm like shit.
Speaker 4 (21:05):
With s RC's income influx, Rich rolled up his sleeves
and immediately started trying to sort out Steve's businesses.
Speaker 1 (21:11):
The first week, I went to Steve's accountant's office and
I said, show me the books. I didn't even know
what that meant. It sounded like, you know something you're
supposed to do when you're in business. They hand me
this accordion file. Then I open it up and it's
just a bunch of bills that were unpaid. So I
take out a legal pad and a pen and I
start writing down a list of all the bills and
(21:32):
I'm like, okay, where's the money coming in? You know
that much? I knew. Then they showed me this tiny
little book with a couple of outstanding invoices, and I
write that down and I look. I go, wait, I
don't understand something. I go, he owes all these people
money and he only has this much coming in. And
the accountant goes, well, what do you mean? What don't
you understand? And I was like, holy shit, what have
(21:55):
I gotten myself into?
Speaker 4 (21:56):
Things looked a little bleak. But while Rich was fixing
the finance, Steve was in the street sourcing talent, and
through his SRC Street Team network, he would find Loud's
first act, a fast wrapping MC from Chicago who would
go on to become a legend.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Steve had one artist signed, and it was Tongue Twister,
who later became Twista so Loud Records at that time
was one twelve inch, wasn't even an album yet. A
first record was called No Peace Sign. Our deal with
Zoo at the time was they don't have to spend
any marketing money until we sell fifty thousand albums. So
fifty thousand albums, there's a lot of albums just to
(22:35):
sell on its own, you know. So again, well, probably
when Steve made the deal, he wasn't thinking about how's
this going to work? And I didn't make that deal,
and if I did, I wouldn't have known any better
at the time.
Speaker 4 (22:46):
Anyway, in order to stay solvent as a business, Loud
needed to unlock that marketing money, so Steve and Rich
went all in on breaking tongue Twister, known for his
lightning fast wraps. The two applied to get Twisted in
the Guinness Book of World Records as the faster Rapper Alive,
and believe it or not, they managed to pull off
the extremely cheap but priceless marketing stunt live on YOUOMTV raps,
(23:08):
making their sole artist in overnight celebrity.
Speaker 1 (23:11):
We miraculously sell fifty thousand albums without any money. You know.
We got him on in the Guinness Book of Records.
He breaks Daddy Freddy's record on Yo MTV raps. We
got him on Power one oh six. It's pretty miraculous.
The head buyer for Warehouse Records, which is a big
music chain on the West Coast, was this woman Violet Brown,
who is an unsung hero in hip hop. Violet was
(23:35):
one of the early believers in hip hop music as
a lasting genre, and she was super powerful because her
blessing and her buying a record, putting music in the
stores was the only way to give an artist a chance.
Violet was based in la and she was tuned into
what we were doing. So Violet placed a huge order
(23:56):
for Tongue Twister, and I remember the head of sales
for Zoo, this woman Jane Simon Rest in Peace, lovely lady.
She called me up and she's like, you're not gonna
believe this. Dyla Brown just ordered twenty five thousand. We
have fifty thousand orders for Tongue Twisted, and I'm like,
holy shit, hang up the phone. I go into Steve's
office like we just won the world series, you know,
like we've been working on this for a year, and
(24:17):
we get to this magic fifty thousand unit threshold. Now
we can go into Lou Malley's office and make some demands,
you know, like we can get some marketing money and
really do our thing.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
So we hit the threshold.
Speaker 3 (24:30):
Lou clolls us well, high fiving each other like we're good,
you know, like we're get to see a few hundred
thousand dollars in marketing. And he says, guys, I got
some bad news.
Speaker 1 (24:43):
He goes, listen, guys, I gotta tell you I just
started this company. I'm already minus seventeen million for the year.
The Germans are killing me. Because that's what he used
to call BMG, the Germans. They were the corporate owners.
He's like, they're killing me. He goes, I don't have
an urban staff. I don't know what to do with
these records. I'm just going to let you go.
Speaker 3 (25:01):
He says, I run out of money, and they're closing
Zoo at the end of the year, and we're living
off of richest credit cards right the second, and I
think Rich is having an anxiety attack.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
I am ready to jump off a building at that point.
Speaker 4 (25:17):
While the loss of the deal with Zoo was gutting
for both Rich and Steve, it also presented a new opportunity.
They were now free agents with a modest hit record
under their bill, so they headed to the Jack the
Rapper convention in Atlanta in search of a new home
for Loud.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
We go to Atlanta for Jack the Rapper, which is
a big convention. Back then, this very important lawyer, Joel Katz.
If we go to meet with him, he's based in Atlanta.
Joel says, you know what's going on? Tell me a story,
and Steven tells him, you know, we just lost our deal.
And Joel says, hey, do you know who Ron Urban is?
Ron is the CEO of RCAA Records. He's working out
(25:50):
of my office. He's here in town. You guys should meet.
So Steve goes for drinks with Ron Urban that night.
Speaker 3 (25:56):
He goes, all right, so this is going to be
the deal. I'm going to give you five ten thousand
a month, her budgets to seventy five thousand for our albums,
and then you guys have funds for single deals, and
then we're going to pay you a fifteen thousand a
quarter to promote our recond So.
Speaker 1 (26:12):
We went from three thousand dollars a month and overhead
to five thousand dollars a month, which was holy cow,
and RCA was going to give us a thirty thousand
dollars quarterly marketing fund to do whatever we wanted. So
I'm thinking, wow, okay, this is a big stump up.
You know, we're in the major leagues. It's RCA. We're
(26:33):
getting one hundred and twenty thousand in marketing, our overhead
sixty thousand. Now I'm like, okay, we're in business. So
Steve really pulled a rabbit out of his ass to
make this happen. So we signed the Alcoholics, and the
Alcoholics debuted number seventeen on the R and B album chart,
and RCA hadn't had an R and B album chart
(26:56):
in years, So we are being celebrated, like who are
these guys? You know, all of a sudden, we are
like these two guys walking around the building too. Oh
I got I gotta have a relationship with Stephen Rich
because of the Alcoholics.
Speaker 4 (27:12):
The success of the Alcoholics put LOUD on the map
and Steve and Rich were the new darlings at RCA.
Not only were they signing artists and charting records, but
they were also handling radio promotion for their parent company,
Loud was finally starting to experience a real momentum, and
this was just the beginning. Meanwhile, in Staten Island, a
hip hop of Systeen was forging connections that would make
(27:33):
both him and his network of new friends extremely consequential
characters in the Loud story.
Speaker 5 (27:41):
I'm from Staaten Island, so from Chatland around that time,
I was one of the few brothers to get off
the island and then go away to school.
Speaker 4 (27:50):
This is Scott Free eventual A and R at Loud Records.
At this point, though, he was just an aspiring rapper
from Staten Island in a group called the Legion of Doom.
This would lead him to befriending other local MC's, including
a buddy star from an adjacent neighborhood named Prince Rakeem
better known to the world as the Rizza.
Speaker 5 (28:09):
Rizza was one of the one of the cats that
every now and then we get off the island, you know,
we take trips to Bronx River, we go to Brooklyn
and we look for records stuff like that. I think
he had a crib with ghosts. Him and Ghosts had
a spot Stapleton. But you know, unlike the rest of us,
Rizz was pretty much living on his own, you know, hustling,
but he had he had the equipment, you know what
(28:30):
I mean. I went to University of Maryland, College Parking,
continue my hip hop education however you want to put
it down there. But you know, I still stayed in
touch with my boys from from the Island.
Speaker 4 (28:41):
Well Scott attended University of Maryland. He would make frequent
trips with his friends to nearby Howard University. One weekend,
the Rizza, then signed to Tommy Boy Records as Prince
Rakeem decided to join them.
Speaker 5 (28:52):
Rakeem had come down for the Howard Hip Hop Festival
and me and the cru since we were down there
and we scooped them out from the am track that
someone whatever that was, he had dropped sexicapaides and Ooh
we love you Rakim, Ooh we love you. Rakim had
had a video Sessica page was like on the B side.
I could see what he was trying to do, you
know what I mean. He was trying to peel a
(29:13):
little bit more outside of the box or whatever. But
it wasn't really what I was used to hearing from him.
What he was doing, you know, on a regular and
you know what I was later on started to hear
you know from him and his crew.
Speaker 4 (29:25):
While riz ahone did on his sound Howard Homecoming would
introduce Scott to another main character in the Loud story,
Maddie C, a young writer at the Source magazine. Maddy
penned the famed Unsigned Hype column, which would put a
spotlight on and ignite the careers of artists like Notorious,
Big Common and Mob Deep.
Speaker 6 (29:45):
So Scott Free at the time was in MC and
he was bringing me his demo material. We met in
college through mutual friends, and so he started coming up
to the Source a lot.
Speaker 4 (29:55):
This is Matti C, future director of A and R
at Loud.
Speaker 6 (29:58):
First playing me demos by his group the Legion of Doom,
and then a couple of other things from Staten Island.
Mainly he knew Rizza and had been to his crib
as just another Staten Island MC that was coming through
to possibly record share music. And the first thing that
Scott let me hear was a song called Rugged and
Raw when the WU was just Rizza, Jizza and ODB
(30:21):
and it was just them three on the song.
Speaker 5 (30:23):
This record was phenomenal to this, you know, to this day,
I still try to sometimes go through my tapes to
see if that record pops up right.
Speaker 1 (30:31):
You know, it's old dirties.
Speaker 5 (30:32):
It's like it's rugged in roll, it's ruggoed in roll.
Then he comes in fook a fuck a fuck a
fuck of Foo from out of the Blue, first number two.
Theygas won a step to the Wu Tank, you know
what I mean, Dirty had that whole that whole steeze
down pad at that.
Speaker 6 (30:49):
Point, and then a couple other people started showing up
at my office talking to me about Wu Tang just
kind of beat this buzz.
Speaker 5 (30:56):
Wizza had blessed me with the protective next single and
was like, yo, yo, take this up to your boys
up there. Let them hear you know what we're working on.
So I took the joint to Matt. He would do
a write up on whatever new twelve inches were coming
out at the time. That became the first, I think
independent twelve inch to be profiled in the Source.
Speaker 6 (31:15):
The guys started coming up to the office to source
Rizza a Meth, all of them. Rizza would be the
main one who would come up as well as Meth
and just kind of play music, listen to music and
talk about the planet and we go into the stairway
smoke weed, and he would talk about his plan to
(31:35):
get individual deals for each of these artists before I
think there was an actual plan for the whole group
per se, you know, in place, and at this time
was when he was envisioning this all as an independent thing.
Speaker 4 (31:50):
Matty's right up on Protecting Neck in the source of
shureshot single column, legitimize the record and put the very local,
very independent group in front of a national audience. With
Wu Tang gaining serious buzz. It wasn't long until the
track landed on the radar of Steve and Rich.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
We had a guy that worked for us named Trevor Williams,
one of our LA based guys who called the college
radio and he used to talk to this DJ named
Jason Stateon. He's a college radio DJ, and Jason, just
as a hip hop fan, sent protect Your Neck and
he flipped and he sent Trevor the viron. I'm like, dude,
you got to hear this record.
Speaker 3 (32:31):
So trev gives me the record. I just quit smoking
like a week ago. I'm just like, I'm losing my mind.
I go, there's no fucking hook to this song. Trevor
goes is the biggest record in the world.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Trevor plays it in the office just as you got
to hear this crazy shit, and everybody's like, WHOA, what
is that? Steve hears it, he what is that? We
make some calls, He makes some calls. Everybody's trying to
find out what the deal is in Wu Tang and
Steve tracks down Rizza.
Speaker 3 (32:56):
So this is in January. I'm trying to get in
touch with Rizza. I've spoke to him once, but he
has no answering machine. I go to New York for
my thirty first birthday. I'm at RCA. The reception goes
print trak hemans here. I'm like really, and he comes up.
He goes, the guys are downstairs, can we come up
and played the record? They come up, there's eight of them,
and the officers just picture what a guest office looks like.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
It's a closet, and they stop performing the record. Some
guy comes.
Speaker 3 (33:20):
Barging in and says, that's that shit, and I never
seen him again. I signed not because I loved the record,
I love the energy. Whatever that fucking guy was. And
Trevor beating the fuck out of me. He's saying that's
that shit we start negotiating.
Speaker 1 (33:35):
Rizzi was kind of jaded in the music business because
he had a bad experience with Tommy Boy when he
put out his own record. So he decided, I'm going
to do this myself. You know, I guess he liked us,
felt secure enough to do this deal with us, and
we said, look, this is all we can offer you.
You know, we're with the RCA. So we made a deal.
We get Protection Act at B side and the video
(33:56):
for Protecting Act for ten thousand dollars and eighteen boys,
and then if we sell fifty thousand units of the single,
we have to put out an album. We have to
give them the money to make an album. That was
the deal. Rizza said, Okay, I'll do it. One caveat,
Rizza said, he'll do the deal if he's allowed to
shop the solo artist. I have to be able to
take the guys to different labels.
Speaker 4 (34:18):
So the guys had a deal, or so they thought. Unfortunately,
Rizzus one caveat was a much bigger ask that either
Steve or Rich had anticipated.
Speaker 6 (34:27):
There's this inherent small print in every record deal when
you sign a group that if any of you guys
go solo.
Speaker 1 (34:34):
That stays with us.
Speaker 4 (34:36):
So the idea that Rizza saw this guy Steve.
Speaker 6 (34:40):
Rifkin as like, oh, you're gonna give me a deal
and we can go solo because that's unheard of, And
so I think Steve didn't really know.
Speaker 1 (34:49):
That that was unheard of. So we go to RCA
Business Affairs and say this is the terms they want,
this little caveat that they could sign the artists to
other labels, and they go no, no, no, no, no, not happening,
Like what do you mean? You know, there is the
thing in the music industry that standard called a leaving
member provision whatever. We could get this band for ten
thousand dollars a song selling like not happening. We can't
(35:10):
change this precedent. This has been going on in the
music industry forever. So from somebody who wasn't in the
music business to me, I'm like, this makes no sense.
Of course, Steve's apoplectic about this as well. How are
we going to not keep this band? And they kind
of business affairs at RCAA, who was kind of like
a rabbi to me, this guy Rogers Skelton, Roger said
I'll help you out. I'm going to come up with
(35:31):
a solution. So he goes and talks to his bosses
and he comes back and he says, Okay, here's what
we'll agree to do. If they agree that we have
a matching right to any offer that they get, and
if we match that offer, they have to stay with
RCA loud so Rizza says fine, And so that was
a great solution that had never been done before, believe
it or not, in the history of the music business.
Speaker 4 (35:51):
Rich got the Wu Tang deal across the finish line,
but in the process made a costly oversight by giving
Wu Tang Clan and astounding eighteen points.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
Steve's unbelievably good at relationships, drumming up business marketing himself,
connecting the right people, finding the right people, but no
clue as to the business side of things, and that
was why he brought me in. Little did he know
that I didn't know anything. For instance, when we signed
Wu Tang Clan, you know, I knew what our agreement
was at the time. I think we got fifteen points
(36:23):
for a single from RCA and I did the deal.
You know, at that time, I thought I was learning
something and we had no money to pay a lawyer
even so I was like, okay, I'll get a form.
I'll read the Donald Passman book. And I had a
couple of friends that were lawyers in the business. At
that point, I said, can you send me a production
deal form? So I kind of cut and paste a
(36:44):
production deal and stupidly, I ended up giving Wu Tang
eighteen points for each single that they sold, and we
only were getting fifteen points. It didn't dawn on me
to look until Wu Tang started selling. I remember I
looked at the contract that I drafted, and then I
looked at the contract we had with RCA, and I
(37:05):
was like, holy shit, what an idiot. We're losing money
every time we sell a record. And I went to
the head of business affairs at RCA and I told
him what I had done, and he's like, don't worry
about it. You know, we'll fix it. Because they were
making so much money, it was negligible and he took
care of made it.
Speaker 4 (37:23):
In fact, the single for Protecting It, backed with method Man,
was selling so well the group's members started fielding solo
offers long before Wu Tang's debut album Ever hit shows. Still,
despite all that buzz, the group couldn't get the attention
of RCA's top brass.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
By the time we closed our Wu Tang deal, now
def Jam offered method Man one hundred and eighty grand.
We go to RCA and said, we're gonna lose nothing, man,
you got to give us one hundred and eighty grand,
and they're looking at us like you're crazy. We're not
giving you one hundred and eighty grand for this unknown
hip hop gun. We'd sit around the table at RCA
and all the guys that were running the department's great people,
(38:02):
great executives, but they all came from Nashville. The president
of the company was from RCA Nashville. The head of
marketing was from RCA, Nashville. The head of sales was
from RCA, Nashville. So they're like guys doing country music
who are now running a major label in New York
and we're coming to them with hip hop records by
the Wu Tang Clan and ghost Face Killer and Jizz.
(38:24):
So they would laugh. They would literally sit in the
meetings and laugh when we'd say the names of the
guys that were in the band. They're like, oh, it
sounds like Chinese food, and we're like how are we
going to get these guys to understand what this is.
Speaker 7 (38:35):
I was working at RCA LA and they weren't really helping.
Speaker 4 (38:40):
This is Joseph Mojo Nicosia, a veteran New York City
club DJ turned radio promotion executive. Mojo worked at Loud's
parent company RCA and would become Louds inside man. As
Steven Rich's operation grew, they would eventually bring Mojo on
board as one of their vps of radio promo.
Speaker 7 (38:58):
Steve and I Matt and he almost got a fight
with Terry Anzalder, who is my boss on the West Coast.
He was trying to talk to this guy to go
to radio with Wu Tang Clan and he just wasn't
hearing it, and Steve and him almost got in a fight.
I like got in the middle of it and he left.
Terry looked at me as he's a piece worker. I've said,
at least he gives a shit about his artist. We
(39:20):
should be helping him. And that's when I decided I
was going to help him.
Speaker 4 (39:25):
So while Steve was ready to physically fight people in
the office to get the machine behind his artists, and
he did start to make some allies in the building
along the way, it wasn't enough to hold on to
most of the Wu Tang Solo deals.
Speaker 1 (39:36):
So they wouldn't agree to Method Man one hundred and eighty.
So we lost Old Dirty and we lost Method Man,
and then you know, we kind of had a wink
and a nod understanding with Rizza at that point, and
he said, look, I have a plan. I want to
have my own label and I'm going to have ghost
Face signed to me, and if you guys can make
us a good deal, you guys could keep Ray Kwan.
Speaker 4 (39:57):
With Wu Tang soloists spreading out across the industry, Riza
wanted to make sure that he was on top of
everything going on with the group's debut project at Loud,
so we hit Scott Free and asked him to be
the group's A and R to ensure that he had
an inside man working at the label.
Speaker 5 (40:12):
So once that started going down, Rizzarth told me, oh,
go get in touch with this guy named Steve Ifkin
go check him out. We need somebody up in the
office like watching our ass and helping us out with
this with this shit. I gave Steve a call. He
got back to me and was like, let's sit down,
let's talk. He had told Stretch Armstrong that he was
gonna sit down with me, and Stretch was a good
(40:34):
good friend of mine, and Stretch definitely gave the co
sign or something like yo free would be good in
helping you, you know, with A and R shit. He's
got good ears and good dude and this and this
and that. So Stretch kind of gave me like a
real big co sign with Steve.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
Armed with a co sign from underground radio DJ Stretch
Armstrong and a personal connection to Rizza. Scott became the
first official New York employee at Loud Records. With Scott
in place to help Wu Tang negate the loud system,
Steven Rich would lean on Mojo to get the RCA
machine behind the group.
Speaker 7 (41:05):
We went and saw Wu Tang Clan perform, and then
I went into Butchwa's office and said, Okay, what's my budget.
He gave me the numbers and I said, I'm going
to put the whole thing on Wu Tang Clan and
Loud Records. We had a big argument and I said,
if it's my department, that's what I want to do,
and he let.
Speaker 2 (41:22):
Me do it.
Speaker 7 (41:23):
I think it was within four days. I had them
in vans and we were driving all over the place
trying to break their record. In the van, they played
Wu Tang clean all the time, entered the thirty six
chambers over and over and over and over. So at
one point it really hit me like how unbelievable it was.
Speaker 1 (41:43):
I became possessed.
Speaker 2 (41:45):
Riza had this style of the way that he got me.
Speaker 7 (41:48):
He would get everyone on the road, he would explain
what the metaphors in their lyrics were, and I remember
he said, we're going to spread this like a virus.
Speaker 1 (41:57):
And that's exactly what they did.
Speaker 7 (41:59):
Risa was all so he made milestones of where the
p and ls and sales were going to be, and
he was pretty much right the whole way. They worked hard,
They worked really hard. They were out there going for it,
and that's what really built LOUD was that we were
just jumping vans and go.
Speaker 4 (42:17):
Just like Riza plan, Wu Tang was spreading like a virus.
The group and the entire staff at LOUD knew the
ensemble was special, but none of them had any clue
how far The group's debut entered. The Wu Tang was
about to take them all, but on the night of
the album's release, both partners would be made fully aware.
Speaker 1 (42:34):
The night of the Wu Tang album release party, we
had dinner with the president of RCA kind of to
celebrate the success of the alcoholics, Like that was a
big deal, Like we're getting acknowledged. The President's giving us
a dinner. We went from that dinner to Webster Hall
and we were about three blocks away from Webster Hall
and all the streets are closed off. I'm like, what
(42:54):
is going on here? We think there's like a police issue.
So we get out of the cab, so let's just
walk because we're gonna be late for this party. And
we'd come around the block and we see the line
wrapping around the corner and we look at each other
and we're like, holy shit, this is for our event.
This was for the Wu Tang album release party. And
(43:14):
we're just looking at each other in disbelief. Like we
knew Wu Tang was happening, but we had no idea
what a big sensation it was gonna be until that night.
Speaker 4 (43:29):
Steve and Rich had witnessed Wu Tang Mania with their
own eyes, but neither could have expected the global phenomenon
The group would become. From starting with the Novelty Act
to signing the greatest group in hip hop history. LAD
was now on its way to becoming the hottest label
in wrap. However, as quickly as the company would rise
to the top, it would soon all come crashing down.
(43:50):
But to hear the heights of the label's success and
how it all unraveled, you're gonna have to tune into
Part two of the Lab record story right here on
Idea Generations All Angles. This episode was brought to you
by Will Packer, Executive produced by John Valachick and Helena Ox,
(44:11):
original music by Valentine Fritz, edit and sound mixed by
Nonsensible Production, and hosted by me Idea Generation founder Noah
Callahan beveret. Idea Generation's All Angles is a Will Packer
Media podcast
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