Joan Jett

The rock icon talks trading her electric guitar for an acoustic on her new album Changeup, which finds her revisiting 25 career-spanning cuts.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Studio on iHeart Radio. My name's Jordan runt Dog, But
enough about me. My guest today is the Queen of
rock and roll. What else can you say like a
cherry bomb. She exploded onto the music scene in the
mid seventies as a member of the pioneering all women
l a punk rock group, The Runaways, before blazing a
new trail with their own outfit, the Black Hearts. But

(00:23):
her bid to start over wasn't easy. Twenty three record
labels passed on her future classic bad reputation, so she
and producer Kenny Laguna released the record themselves, selling it
from the back of Kenny's car. Since then, she's topped
the charts, found at a record label, and inspired countless
women and men to pick up a guitar. Now, she's
reflecting on her legacy on her new album Change Up.

(00:46):
True to its title, the album's a radical departure, finding
the amped up icon, revisiting twenty five career spanning cuts
with an acoustic guitar. Though initially hesitant trader trademark electric
acts for an acoustic six string class you did the
new versions of songs like victim of circumstance, soul mates
of strangers, I Love Playing with Fire, and even Cherry

(01:07):
Bomb revealed fresh nuances you may have missed in the original.
The pairing is unexpected, but once you hear it, you
wonder why she didn't try it years ago. Even without
a namp, she still rocks. It's my honor to welcome
Joan jay. I love the new record you just released.
Change up a new record which you revisit and reimagine

(01:30):
twenty five of your songs in an acoustic style. Uh.
Just before the pandemic, you completed a documentary on your life,
Bad Reputation. Did that put you in a reflective mood?
What made you decide to take a look back and
revisit these songs in such a unique way. Oh, I'm
glad you brought that up. That's perfect introduction to too.
How this How this happened? When um for the pandemic,

(01:54):
Like you said, we put out a documentary called Bad Reputation.
It was actually the brainchild of my niece, Kerry Ann Brinkman,
who runs Black Heart, really runs our company now, who
was a three month old kid when I'm when I
met her. She's actually my niece, And when we did

(02:15):
the documentary and we were doing the premiers in Los Angeles,
they wanted wanted us to play a couple of songs
for the audience, you know, as a band. But we
couldn't really um set up as an electric unit there
because it wasn't just wasn't you know, a movie a
movie theater wasn't really set up for that, and we

(02:36):
wanted to play songs for the audience. So um Kerry
kind of suggested, let's do a few acoustics, you know,
but we'll do the whole band, not just like me
and the guitar player, but the bass player and the drummer.
So it was we were all there and we did
a few songs, including badtriputation, and recorded it for posterity, know,

(03:00):
but it came affully well and I think, you know,
we didn't know what to expect before we did it,
and when we did it, it felt great and didn't
seem to lose anything, you know, if anything, it's kind
of just I don't know, just it was was very
interesting to us, you know, it was fun. We enjoyed it. So,

(03:22):
you know, we did that. Then the pandemic happens and
you know which was I guess a very introspective and
quiet and oh my god, are we ever gonna work
again kind of time. UM, So I think the whole mood.
I don't know that it contributed necessarily, but it's certainly

(03:44):
didn't didn't deter it, you know. And last year UM one,
and this year is the fortieth anniversary of both Bad
Reputation album and I Love rock and Roll album. So
we wanted to sort of find a way to to
give the fans some you know, maybe extra tracks to listen,

(04:09):
to listen to something different to here, so to mark
the you know, the forty years and sort of look
back on some of the songs. And we knew that
that acoustic thing it just worked, and we thought we'd
do a few more. Um. We went to the studio
and as we started playing a bunch of the songs,
we just kind of kept going and did pretty much

(04:32):
everything we could do live that we know. UM, and
that became change up. You know, he started saying, this
feels like an album. It feels like a good way
also to mark the forty years by looking at a
lot of the songs that um, we've done that people
might not know even exist. You know, so this was

(04:55):
a great way to so and and a lot of
the lyrics actually still are very relevant to the time.
So that was really interesting as well to kind of
see that and that the that the lyrics are still relevant.
And two, um, you know it's kind of I believe
it's more it feels more intimate to me. Yeah, everything

(05:18):
is stripped away. You know, it's like you're really naked
there when you're playing the acoustic stuff. At least the
way we recorded it. You know, there's not a lot
of effects or things like that, so any mistake is heard.
And you know, I think that's kind of cool. You know,
you don't want to sound like you can't play, but

(05:40):
you also don't want it to be so pristine. I
think that you that it loses its human feel. Oh absolutely,
it feels really uh you know, like hopefully like you're
in the room. And um, we want to be able
to do some of this live as well, so um,
we'll see, we're gonna we're gonna be doing that. Um
this weekend, we have a couple of gigs. We're gonna

(06:00):
be doing a little bit of both. So intimate is
the perfect word. I love how your voice is front
and center. I mean, I feel like, well, by stripping
back all the instrumentation to these songs, did that allow
you to find something new in them? Whereas did anything
surprise you? I think, oh my god, this whole different
song was in the song I've been playing for so
many years. Totally, totally. I mean, it's sort of because

(06:23):
I wanted the vocal energy to sort of match musical
energy that I had to pull back in some ways,
you know, and and find different ways to sing some
of the songs. Um. You know, I didn't want to
sing them as hard or maybe as high as the
electric versions called for. Um, you know what I mean.

(06:43):
So like one that's particularly suck out to me is
Victim of Circumstance. Yeah, I mean the whole melody is, Um,
I guess it's a I guess it's a harmony to
the to the main melody. I don't really know, because
I haven't gone through it like that, but um, that
just kind of popped out. I didn't know what was
gonna happen, because, you know, we're just sitting down to play,

(07:05):
and I wasn't even because we weren't there yet knowing
that this is gonna be an album. You know, we
were just cutting some tracks to see what works at
what we could give to the fans. So you know, my, my, my, um.
Feelings for wanting to do this increased as we played

(07:28):
this and as we found these little nuggets. It was like, wow,
this is really you know, this is gonna be fun. Um.
But it was hard too. It was definitely hard because
we wanted to get it right. Um. But songs like
that Victim just popped out, you know, and that doesn't

(07:49):
always happen. Sometimes you just have to really work for it.
But that melody is kind of flew out of my mouth,
and so you know, that one, to me is the
most obvious. Oh I I love how just the way
that they're they're reimagined. I mean, songs like Cherry Bomb
that I've heard, you know, for so many years and
loved for so many years. For me, it's like a
whole new song. It's got this whole new almost like

(08:10):
film noir spooky vibe to it, which is so cool.
I'm so glad you said that because that's exactly what
I hear. I hear it too, and it's like wow,
you know, it's a whole new thing for me, and it.
It feels great. The field is different, and but it's
you know, it's kind of mysterious and just what you

(08:32):
said it was a great description. But yeah, so those
little things are really fun to find in these songs.
And really they all feel like that to me. You know,
some I think um more than others, sound, you know,
a little bit different. You know, some of them you'll
notice more than others. I guess that's what I mean.

(08:55):
And there I mean, there are twenty five tracks on
this album, and there are the ones that you might
expect bad Reppyta Asian, Cherry Bomb, Crimson and Clover, but
then you have deeper cuts like Coney Island White Fish,
which you know, maybe something is a little less expected.
What was the process like of choosing all these different
songs throughout Change Up? Well, Uh, we, like I said,

(09:16):
we did, We looked pretty much two most every album,
but really focusing on some of the earlier ones and
just what we could what we had done live in
the past, and what we could what we could do live,
because we want to be able to do it live
as well. We don't just put out a record that

(09:37):
we can't perform live. So Coney Allen Whitefish is just
straight up you know, three chord progression and it's fun.
I think everybody knows one, you know, and it's I
think it can be fun. It's a fun song to sing,
and it's also you know, probably a little edgy for
some people, but it's fun, it's fun to do, and

(10:01):
it's you know, it's on it's on primetime television for
pres Say so, you you touched on this a little
bit earlier, But has the meaning of any of these

(10:23):
songs changed for you since you first made them? Do
the words the son of them hit you in a
different way now than they did maybe when you first
wrote them. Well, I think, yeah, yeah, things like um,
I just wanted to have the lyrics reflect where I

(10:45):
am as a person, and you know that I'm an
older person, noel, and I'm not eighteen, and I'm not
um you know in that in that headspace. So any
words that I ran I can't really think off the
top of my head. I know there are a few
in Cherry Bomb and you know where I just had

(11:06):
to make the lyrics match me now, you know. I
had to change maybe some tenses or various things that
just made it feel right to me. You know that.
I wasn't you know, singing lyrics like I'm going out
to the club tonight. You've You've talked in the past

(11:27):
about sort of the two elements or motivators of songwriting.
One is a connection with other people, and then the
second one as a as a release, more of a
catharsis for yourself. I was wondering, just does one side
went out over the other for you? Is it more
about connection for you or more about getting these feelings
out of you when you write a song. Wow, that's
a good question. I don't know. I think it's probably

(11:50):
equal equal parts. Um, yeah, I think the connection is big.
You know, you have to find a because opining about
something and avoid by by yourself. I mean, you know
who can relate to that? You know what I mean?
It's just like I mean, it's kind of like what

(12:11):
you what's the point I might as we to sit
in the room and prove on what I'm doing, you know,
for myself, for my own sake, you know. So it's
got to I think, for to to mean something, it's
gotta to mean something to your own self. You've got
to be able to connect something else beside yourself. If
that makes sense. I mean, I don't know how it

(12:34):
can mean anything if it only means something see you.
I mean, I suppose you can, but I think that's
not a way to to Um, you know, for the
most part, it would be about connection and not just
in isolation. How's the last two years been for you?

(12:55):
I know, for a lot of artists it's been tough
to connect given you know, the lockdown obvious see virtual
concerts and things have been nice. But how how's the
adjustment been the last couple of years for you? It's
it's been. It's weird, you know, it's very weird that
certainly the first year just not knowing what you know,
the serious unknowns of it all. And and I know

(13:17):
we're still in that to to degree, not knowing what
when well we know, if you know, it's probably going
to come back, but um, you know, to what degree
and all that. And last year we did get out
for a month and a half I think when did
concerts and it was really great to be out and

(13:38):
and see people and see them enjoying themselves, and um,
you know. So I'm looking forward to it and I
just hope that it, you know, all goes well and
I think I think it will, but you know, it's well,

(13:59):
we'll see that everybody, I mean people seem to be
going to sporting events and all sorts of other kinds
of events with require you know, closeness, So we'll see.
And but I'm I'm definitely looking forward to it. And
we're gonna be doing different size venues as well, because
we're gonna be doing some of our own shows and
some smaller buildings, and then the stadium tour is going

(14:22):
to be those huge stadiums, and so it's gonna be
fun to try this and maybe somebody's acoustic songs that
way as well, So we'll see what happens. Oh, that's
gonna be so cool to hear you do those acoustic
versions live. Would you ever consider doing another album of
of acoustic tracks of maybe new original songs. Is that

(14:42):
something that that you'd be interested in doing? Uh, I
don't know. I don't know honestly, if I could get
my you know, if I could work myself up for that,
you know, I mean possibly, but I mean never say never.
But I think you know, I'm an electric I'm an
electric guitar person at heart, and I think that's where

(15:04):
i'd want to go and I want to stay. But
I really enjoy visiting this. You know, doing this acoustic
itself has been really interesting, and I'm we're gonna think
it's gonna be a lot of fun because we're, like
I said, it's kind of an unknown you know, I
haven't really done this before, and I haven't played an

(15:25):
acoustic guitar in my whole life, and it's a whole
different it's a different thing than playing electric, you know,
And so I think that there's it's it's just gonna
be fun because I'm sure there's gonna be mistakes and
goofs and it's but I want to have a great
attitude about it. And and the audience is in on it.

(15:45):
You know, they're seeing this process too, including the change
over from electric to acoustic, and explaining to them what
we're gonna do. I want people to see that because
so much, you know, for for no reason, it's like
you know, you only see the oh you you know,
you don't want to see any sort of blemishes, and
you know this, you want to we want to. We

(16:07):
want to show it all and I think it'll be fun,
and it evolves involves the audience more and then they
feel part of it connected. Is that? Yeah? Again, I
wanted to ask you more about what your relationship is
like to the acoustic guitar now because you said in
the past that you were I don't want to put
words in are outh but almost resistant to it because

(16:27):
of of teachers when you first for learning that we're
trying to kind of push you more in that direction,
which seems crazy to me that people would try to
do that to you, but I guess that was what
people thought. Um. But you know, how how do you
feel about about the acoustic guitar now? You sort of
uh made friends with it in a way totally. I

(16:48):
think I have because I think I was very resistant.
It was that, but it was all It was much
more mental than it was a dislike for an acoustic guitar,
you know what I mean. It was because I was
being told this is what you know, girls play acoustic guitar.
You know, it just sort of even if it wasn't
said out loud, it was imployed. It was implied a lot.

(17:11):
And so therefore I really kept it on dis since
it was like out of sight, out of mind, and
you know, so I didn't own one. I didn't any
of that, so yeah, definitely making friends with it. Uh.
They say that when you first are starting out on
an instrument, you're you're you're trying to be someone else
before you develop your own style. You know, you're always

(17:33):
your sort of imitating while you're still learning who you are,
what your own sound is. Was that the case for you?
Were there people that you look towards to try to
try to emulate, like I know you've talked about Paul
Kossof from Free and All Right now, I mean where
there's some guitar heroes for you when you first picked
up the instrument. Well, yeah, well was that particular song
that because it was a little out of out of

(17:55):
tune just one pass it was a slightly out of tune,
or at least it sounded like it to me, and
for some reason I liked that. But I'd say, t
Rex Mark Boland, your version of Jeepster, Oh my gosh,
your version of Jeepster for the Rock Hall was amazing,
Oh my gosh, thank you very much. Yeah, but Mark
Boland would have been, uh, the one that I was

(18:17):
trying to emulate, one that I listened to when I
started to play guitar, and I could kind of play
you know, bang of gong that you know, those easy
seemed easy for easier for me to do those octaves
that done that stuff. So and I had a crush
on him, and I learned how to scream. That's with

(18:40):
his screams were the ones that I would emulate because
you know, people ask, you know, who are you trying
to copy when you scream? And that's that would be
who I was trying to copy. This is I know
Keeps just released an acoustic album, but I have a
very specific question about an electric guitar. I just thought
of your your melody maker, you're Gibson. I read that

(19:04):
you got that from Eric Carmen and that same guitar
that you used on the first two solo records or
black Heart's records, was the same one that he used
them the Raspberries. Is that is that true? That's that's true?
And you know what it was rumored because we both
used from the Runaways days. We both had the same
road crew because the Raspberis were in Ohio band and

(19:27):
we uh picked up some road crew guys that we
hired um that were in the Ohio. Um, what it's
called the Agora Ballrooms. There was like a a bunch
of ballrooms in the Ohio area that was I guess
the circuit. And anyway, we had the same guitar roadies,

(19:48):
and I was looking for an electric guitar because I
had only had less Paul and it was very heavy. Yeah,
so but I loved it. I didn't want to get
rid of it. I just needed something else to switch
off to. So I could, you know, have another guitar.
So I was able to buy this guitar somehow. You know,

(20:11):
my crew guy. I knew this guy in a band
who was trying to get rid of a guitar, and
it turns out it was Eric Carmen's um. From him,
you know, from him, he wanted to sell it. He
was focusing on keyboards, so he sold the guitar. And
that's the guitar that played on Please Go All the Way,
and I guess a couple of others right around that time,

(20:34):
and but also played on my first two albums, so
all bad reputation, all of Oil of rock and Roll,
probably then a couple of the next albums. So until
I finally just took it off the road, was afraid
it would get broken or stolen or something. But yeah,
it's not amazing, and I don't think confirmed it for

(20:55):
a couple a few years ago for sure that it
was definitely the case, because he had heard that I
heard my guitar sold the Joan Jet and and I
had heard that, you know, I heard that I bought
her Karma's guitar. But it was finally confirmed that, yes,
it was the guitar that he played on and I

(21:16):
played on. So yeah, that's pretty I like that lineage.
That is so amazing, A lot a lot of history.
I just I was just visiting the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame about two weeks ago, and I saw
your jacket from the cover of I Love rock and Roll.
I mean, it's just it's so cool. Yeah. Watching the

(21:45):
Bad Reputation documentary, I mean, the theme really just seemed
to be endurance. I mean, you went from from selling
records out of the back of Kenny's care Too to
being the head and founder of a label. I mean,
do those rejections, you know, being rejected by twenty three
different labels, does that still feel your fire? Do you
still feel you work better when there's something to sort

(22:06):
of push up against or pushback against an adversary. Yeah,
I know what you're saying. Yeah, to a degree. I mean,
but that's just sort of a built in thing in
in in life, you know. And it's not just rock
and roll or music with that, you know, sort of
glass ceiling. Girls can only go this far. You know.
It's really every every career path. You know. I speak

(22:28):
to women all the time, and they're like they can
totally relate to all the things that I discussed. It happen,
you know, in the music business or show business, and
so it's it's sort of sort of a universal struggle.
I don't want to say fight, but you know, it's

(22:48):
something that you you have to always work for. You've
plays the trail for just so many I mean, are
there people out there now who you really feel are
are carrying the torch now? I mean you've worked with Miley,
cyrus L King, I mean, so many great folks who
are out there. Do you feel, really, uh, carrying the
torch and paying it forward for rock and roll? You know,

(23:11):
I don't get out to see enough bands that you know,
I should. I should, really, I I'm not exposed to
a lot of rock and roll stuff. I'm not seeing
that so much. You know, Um, I know what's out
there though, because every place I go they're they're girl
rock and roll bands. In fact, um one of the

(23:34):
bands on our label Faya there they were an all
girl band. They were girls in a coma and now
they're called Faya and they're from San Antonio. There on
the on the road constantly make great records. Also, um
our lighting designer as a band called jack Knife Stiletto

(23:58):
and she has put out records UM and touring and
doing work when she's not working with us. So those
are ones that I'm close to and know about and
you know, so but I know they're in every city,
and I'm talking about you know, sweaty white rock and
roll um stuff, and so I'd like to see more

(24:23):
of that, get um sort of more eyeballs wherever wherever
it is, whether it's you know, traditional press or online,
you know, because it's um to me, it's rock and
rolls are very valid musical expression and still out there,

(24:44):
and uh so I don't know if to still fight
for it right on. I got a bunch of friends
out here in Brooklyn that are are playing d I
Y Venues above a pickle factory you know out in
uh in Bushwick. So yeah, still trying to make music
when they can. And uh I guess my my my
last question for you, mean, you've been an inspiration to

(25:07):
so many. Is there a tribute that's meant the most
to you, Either an actual award or props from a
fellow artist, or even just something that a fan said
to you, you know, after a show in the you know,
behind the theater or something. Is there something that you
really when you're having a bad day, you can think
of that moment and think, you know what that really
just sort of turns your day around. Um No, I

(25:32):
don't think. I don't think really that I would look
to you know, awards or anything like that too for
to feel better, to feel validated, because I never did
it for those reasons, you know. I did it for
the that were that connection. Again, I couldn't pick just one.

(25:53):
There have been tons of fans that have said such
moving things to me. I mean, really it really shows you.
I mean, if you strip away the you part of it,
you know, nothing to do with me, just that music
is so healing, and so is medicine. You know, it

(26:15):
gets people to really tough stuff, and you're like amazed
that that it's you that someone chose to heal them
or whatever the music does for them. And it's it's
really very humbling to me at its root, it's very
that's very humbling and really, um you know, musicians that

(26:41):
tell me that they are inspired by me, it's just
I'm I get amazed, you know, whether it's somebody that's
known or not known. It's it's a reciprocal thing. You know.
It's like I am inspired by them as well, you know.
And so but it's not I couldn't pick one person
for you in one situation. And my friend Kenny, you know,

(27:05):
he validates me the fact that he believed in me
when he did and nobody else did and nobody would
give me a shot, and that he you know, put
it all on the line. He put is um you know,
baby infants college, child fund into into me. You know,
it's like, um, so, you know I knew he was

(27:30):
all in, and that's um. It can be a little
scary too, because it's like wow, You're like, Wow, I better,
I better be good. I'm better get out there and work,
you know. But um so that but that's the beginning
of it. So, I mean, I would have to say Kenny, Um,
Kenny's belief in the post Runaways would be probably the

(27:53):
starting point, you know, for just knowing even what that
feels like to have someone even me and and fight
for me and get piste off, you know, like like
I would get Piste off for you know, saying, you know,
some stupid girl remarks or something, and that to see
that firing him and him him realizing that, you know,

(28:17):
your friends weren't gonna help you, nobody was gonna give
you a break. Now you're feeling when I'm feeling, what
it feels like to be a girl or a woman
in music and to have that, you know, that hand
in your face. And you know, I think Kenny might
have been used to it to a degree in his
own career because you know, everything doesn't always go great,

(28:39):
you know. So he had had a couple of downs,
but he had quite a lot of ups. So um,
you know I trusted him that he knew what he
was doing and he paid attention when you know he's
in bands and to what's going on. And uh so
you know I felt very comfort it by that, you

(29:01):
know that he was all in and you know, he
was a musician and played with me, and I feel
funny talking about you when you're right there, but um,
that's true. I'm not and I'm not saying it because
he's sitting there either. We should all be so lucky
to have a friend like that and someone to believe
in us like that. It's a beautiful answer. Thank you

(29:23):
for that, you know. I mean, I don't know what
would be going on if uh we hadn't met, you know,
for real? Huh, Joan Jett, you are an inspiration. You're
a hero. Thank you so much for your time today,
and most importantly, thank you for your music. It's been
such an honor speaking you. Thank you, Juan, Thank you

(29:43):
so much for having me. We hope you enjoyed this
episode of Inside the Studio, a production of I Heart Radio.
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