March 11, 2022 • 29 mins
Fusing bone crunching riffs, radio friendly hooks and theatrical flair, Ghost have become one of the most exciting acts in metal. During his conversation with Jordan, frontman Tobias Forge outlines the band's philosophically complex new record Impera, which explores the rise and fall of empires. He also delves into his love of horror movies and ABBA — which are not as mutually exclusive as you might think!
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Hog,
but enough about me. My guest today is fused bone
crunching riffs, radio friendly hooks, and theatrical flair to become
one of the most exciting acts and metal Rolling Stone
recently dubbed his group the New Kings of Occult Rock
for the Satanic Pope guys he wears for his electrifying
(00:24):
live performances. The Garb underscore is what you may call
his complicated relationship with Christianity. Hailing from Sweden or melodic
craftsmanship seems to be part of the national identity. He's
gone by a new name for each of his albums.
He was Papa Emeritus the first, the second, the third,
and most recently Cardinal Copia for his last record, which
(00:45):
explored the medieval black plague, fittingly released just before the
world was shut down for a global pandemic. He embodies
the character of Papua Emeritus the fourth on his latest album, Impara.
It's a philosophically complex study of the rise and fall
of empires, inspired in part by Timothy Parsons book The
Rule of Empires. Those who built them, those who endured them,
(01:07):
and why they always fall. Given the tenuous geopolitical situation
at the moment, his timing seems spot on. I'm so
happy to welcome the mastermind behind Ghost to Bias Ford.
The last time you wrapped a tour for your last album,
(01:28):
which was set in uh the medieval Time of Black Death,
was just days before the world shut down for a
global pandemic. And now, in this time of global turmoil
and Eastern Europe, you're gearing up to release an album
that explores the rise and fall of empires. Uh. Your
timing is certainly spot on, though I hope it doesn't
set the tone for the next two years. Um. There's
something you said in a recent interview that I thought
(01:49):
was so interesting and that it really comes through in
your lyrics. We tend to disregard the cyclical nature of history,
and today review empires as these static, permanent things, which
ignores several millennia of human history. What led you to
tackle the subject on empera Because it's interesting, it's but
(02:10):
it's also uh, It's it's also um current and ever
ever current, omni omni current, and I think that that's
why we we received the news of the world in
a peaval or let's specifically say the Western world and
(02:33):
the people with such a shock because it it's close
to home rather than in some desert somewhere. Um. And
and it's um fascinating, uh, mixed with horror obviously because
(02:53):
I am also I'm just a person in the Western
world who loves sucking ark music. I also need the
world to function the way it it does and that
and that it has been throughout our lives. I wanted
to stay like that. So I don't want it to end.
(03:13):
I don't want it to I want to want certain
things to change, but I want ideally, I want the
clock to turn back to and just stay like that forever.
That would be great. That was interesting that you set
the album in in Victorian times. What was it about
that era that that fascinated you. I guess the industrial
revolution from that period probably set in motion a lot
(03:33):
of the problems that continue to reverberate to this day.
I mean, sometimes you just do something because it looks cool. Um,
it's just a it's just a visually pleasing time period
because it has that um mixture of sort of old
(03:57):
goth mixed of industrialism specifically. Actually I got the idea
not for the Imperial Record. I already already knew that
since many years back. But I got the idea, the
visual idea um just in the beginning. It was just
in the beginning of the pre Kailum promo campaign and
(04:22):
I had a day off, no or no a day off.
I had a promo day in London and I was
actually just for some reason, I was staying up at
the King's Cross or at the St. Pancras station, and
that looks like power move around there. Yeah, And I
came in and I was I was going into St.
(04:43):
Pancras station because there's a lot of stores there. I
think I was just walking into two buy coffee or something,
and I just went in. I mean obviously been there
many times. I've taken the train from there to to
Paris many times. But I just spent a few it's
just looking up a little just not doing anything. And
I just noticed this sort of mixture between the gothic
(05:06):
stony church like um Wall and they had with the
massive industrial ceiling, very tory in and and it just
walking out of there, it was just like, that's exactly
what we're doing next. Time, Um, because I saw the
mixture was so cool, and that once an idea like
(05:28):
that drops, it's just like it just opens up this
big branch. It just branches out very quickly in my head.
And we have presented a little bit of that on
this work, but it's going to be I think even
more in the future. Oh, it's it's so cinematic. I mean,
I think I saw some of your your promo in
(05:49):
uh in London for for this album. It's projected onto
some buildings there, and it does it looks like it
looks like a movie. It's like right out of some
Bramstrokes Jacula or something. Mean, it looks so cool. Uh.
Something that I just appreciate about your storytelling is that
it's not narrative in the strict sense, with a beginning, middle,
and end like a film plot, But it's more of
(06:10):
an exploration of a given topic from all these different angles,
like a variation on a theme, and you get so
many interesting points of view that way. Um, was this
album sort of almost like a warning in a way.
I almost got the sense that the theme was those
who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it
if you will. Yeah, I mean it's I think that
(06:33):
all of our records have been alarming, all are missed
in a way a new word that everybody knows nowadays. Um.
But I think that the reason why this record sounds
uh additionally alarmist is probably because of its uh timing,
(06:55):
the same way that precal As you said, I had
a sort of clairvoyance over it. Um. But I think
that the theme hasn't really changed much from throughout the records.
It's it's always been sort of shining a light onto
the murkiness of linear religion really linear um life codes
(07:22):
um and the the destructive elements of of structural religion
slash society. And by saying that, you cannot avoid saying
political because it's that's what it is, vat it can
(07:45):
and church and the Bible was put together for political reasons.
So yes, it's it's all about that. It's all about that.
It's never been anything about It has nothing to do
with God or anything. It was just to to to
control people, to control this cult that they needed to
(08:05):
have on their side, and just made things easier for me.
It doesn't have that. It wasn't like that this record
felt like it was taking everything to or two, and
not new in a new direction. It was just like,
you know, just maybe you just get a little bit
more poignant or or um with age or with age
(08:28):
or rage, you just get a little bit more like
to the point. But thematically it doesn't really differ much
from the first two records, the first being always a
little bit more vitious and a little bit just like
throwing fun words into play, but the second one where
the lyrics were a little bit more uh realistic, if
(08:51):
you will. I don't want to say that, but it's
you know, there was always like an ambigus ambiguity between
you know, the fictional world of of interesting Latin I
Latin based words that you sort of associate with the
with golf and death metal and all that, but I
(09:12):
also had an undertone of something streaked in there. Um.
But if you, if you want to, you can just
turn around, if you if you if you're one of
those people who are like, we're a rock band, should
talk about a fucking politics, you can just you can
just easily see it for what it is. It's forty
minutes of rock music. It's just a fucking rock record.
(09:35):
That's what we do. We we play rock music. And
then we go out on tour. That's that's what we do.
I mean, these songs, they just sound so enormous. I
mean they sound custom made to be played at stadiums.
At what point in your writing process do you begin
to think of an audience. Are you thinking early on,
as you're putting, you know, the riffs together and writing
the track, how they'll respond and how we'll go over
(09:56):
on stage or does that come later and in the
beginning are you just kind of emoting I think, as
any architect that you you will at some point, even
when you're creating your idea, think of practical things like
this giant slab of concrete cannot float in thin air?
(10:17):
Or can it? You know, yes it can. If we
hide this underneath it, it will look like it's floating
in thin air. But you don't just disregard the fact
that a giant concrete slab will sucking, not just elevate,
and that that is you You do think about that
(10:39):
when you're writing songs. If you if you are a band,
if you write songs to be performed, there will be
at some point a practical evaluation of the track. How
does this work out? How how do we play this,
How will how will it sound? How will this translate?
(11:01):
Is this understandable? It's just and but but I so
did grindcore bands as well. You you orgonomically need to
figure the song out to make it feel a certain way.
And and that's that's what's what's arranging songs and for
(11:24):
an ensemble is it's to how to coordinate it to
be performed. And uh, you know most bands do. And
I mean even I don't know if the Shacks had it,
had it like uh and go with because it sounded
it like that. They just started making noise and that
(11:45):
became entertainment as well. So it's you don't always have
to if you don't want to. But if you if
you're if you have your if the expectancy is for
people to show up and and dance along to your music,
it will greatly benefit if you sort of have that
(12:06):
in mind. I love that you just referenced the Shags.
I love that album so much. Uh yeah, me too good.
It's it's the utmost perfected manifestation of exactly the opposite
of everything I spoke of. It's just it's an endurance
test to listen to for anyone listening right now who
hasn't heard that check it out. Uh. They are a
(12:29):
group of I I think teen girls in the late
sixties whom I think their father had a vision. If
I recall that, they that that that God wanted them
to be in a band, and so he gave them
instruments without really instructing them. And it's just pure it's punk,
maybe twelve years early, I guess. As a way of
thinking about it, it's definitely Uh, it's an interesting sound, yeah,
(12:52):
but it definitely it definitely sounds like they just pressed
the record button and then they took up the instrument
for the first time in their lives. And me and
my daughter sits and listen to that in the car
all the time. My friend foot food food, food, food, food.
It's Halloween, and it's impossible even if you're if you're
(13:17):
somewhat musical, it's still like an completely not You cannot
sing a long to it. You can just mimic the
sounds and just sort of like, uh, sort of do
wonky moves, and but it's it's entertainment and that is
what music is, regardless off you're listening to Fucking Yes
or the Shags, It's meant to entertain you. So they did.
(13:39):
They did exactly. They wanted to be rock band and
they played rock music to make people smile, and they do.
They still do, and that's fifty five years ago whatever,
you know, so that's pure as well. We said starting
(14:07):
this conversation, you you just wrapped the first leg of
your tour playing I know you opened the show with
Kasian and played a lot of songs from the new
album that's not out yet. What was the feedback like
from the crowd on these new songs that, in a
lot of cases they had never heard before. Huntress Moon
has obviously I've been out for quite a while, so
that that really feels like one of our like regulars
(14:31):
now Kayserrian was, I mean, I know, not to sound
fucking cocky or anything, but you know, I knew there
was a good song and it's a big opener, so
it's like I knew that people will like it, people
should like it, therefore we're playing it. And but we
already knew beforehand that people were going to be a
(14:52):
little bit of non responsive, if you will, the same
same way that they were to Spirit when we started
playing that in on the Maliora cycle before the album
came out the same way that people reacted to Parispera
and in Ferry. Sorry, we just say Parispera. So I
(15:13):
never I have said the full title in ten years.
Um we we did that as well. So we we've
done that so many times, like coming out on stage
on a news cycle with a big opener on a
record that you haven't heard yet. Um. So it's it's
almost like a tradition. Um. And it always turns into
(15:36):
the same sort of, uh, you know, deer in headlights
sort of situation in the beginning, and then when we
go from the first song into Rats, all of a sudden,
the crowd sort of what becomes comes a lot. But
that's fine, they'll they'll learn. You mentioned Hunter's mood. I
(15:58):
meant to mention this earlier. I want to congratulate you
for having that in the soundtrack to the Lace Halloween
movie Halloween Kills over the over the end credits, which
is like prime soundtrack spot. That must have been a
cool moment for you as a as a big horror fan.
Of course, yeah, I know what. I don't know what
to say more than that, of course, it was a
big thing. Uh. I've always been ever since I was
(16:20):
a kid watching these films and you sort of uh
noticed the um the connection obviously, I mean big, big examples.
So that was obviously Man Behind the Mask and Friday
six with It, yeah, or something like that. And I've
(16:41):
always been in awe of of of horror film music,
but the way that a lot of rock bands source
associated with the horror I liked A Night of Living
Dead obviously was no Return of the Living Dead, sorry,
Return of the Living Dead. The eighties sort of comic
(17:02):
comedic horror film I'll you know, obviously had this uh
great display of a lot of cool rock and punk bands.
So that was always something that I wanted to do,
which is cool. I say, could you ever uh following
the footsteps of like John Carpenter and see yourself writing
a script for horror movie or something like that. I'm
(17:25):
very interested in the cinematic world. I don't know if
if I were given the card blanche to sort of
go in head first into cinema, I don't know if
horror films would be my first get to go to. Actually,
Oh interesting, I am a giant fan of horror, but
that was that would not be my first I am
(17:46):
more of a UM. If I were to make films,
it would be more in in some some weird universe
between UM and and you know, with with the quirky
and gothic sort of little shadow of Lynch, but in
(18:08):
the quirkiness of Wes Anderson and and you know, more
of the Cohen Brothers, more more comedic. But anything could happen,
sort of mixture between everything. I'm way more like a
mishmash sort of person person sets in there too. I
feel like I can see a little bit of that
maybe yeah, but never. I don't think I would ever
(18:31):
go into like full on or just just for the
sake of it being scary. It would be, but in
the film by me, it would would definitely like if
someone died, it would be like in a horrifically bloody
way just because it's that would be a fun way
to sort of just incorporate an element of splatter um.
(18:52):
But the story itself would be sort of comedic, tragic
and romantic, in some sort of weird fairy tale of
complete un real. Dude, is m hearing you talk about
(19:13):
the kind of ideal movie you would like to make.
I'm so interested in just your incredibly diverse influences. I
love that you close your shows with Emmy Lou Harris's
Sorrow and the Winds, which is not something that you know,
people would traditionally associate with with you know, hard rock
and roll in metal. UM. I know you've cited people
like Blue Oyster Colt and you play a Metallica cover
(19:33):
on this recent tour, but you've also cited tore Amos
and Andrew Lloyd Webber's influences. What is it about someone
like Andrew Lloyd Webber who who really inspires you? Somebody
that I wouldn't have automatically thought would be an influence
of yours because you write hit songs. I think that
there are there are several uh what do you call,
like YouTube profiles that likes to to make um, you
(19:59):
know me musical versions of of anything, and even though
that they are joking, I think that there are a
lot of musicals that are written that way because people
think that if you were in the musical, you talk
about this and you point over there and it's it's
(20:20):
so bad that I, you know, I just want to puke. Unfortunately,
a few films that have been made like as musicals
are also like insanely bad, even when it's people that
I would expect to do better, And whereas Andrew Lloyd
Webber has done, it's like normal talking and then all
(20:43):
of a sudden they erupt into a song. And when
they erupt into a song, it's memories or Music of
the Night, Phantom of the Opera, the song that's our
fucking that. They are fucking smash hits. So if you're
making theater or and it goes into musicals, and and
(21:06):
I prefer it when like each track is like a banger,
it needs to be like a real proper standalone uh
song from the radio. And that's what separates his music
so for much from from the the standard musical, because
(21:27):
a lot of the standard musical are are very generic.
It's a style of music which to compare it to
to horror films. And this is where um, if if
if I would, if I were to talk about not
the use not the horror genre in general, where that
sort of comes in different uh time periods and all that,
(21:49):
but if because they're there are a lot of Italian
and eighties horror that I like for maybe different reasons
than saying that the films are rate. They might be entertaining,
but they might not be great cinematic crafts, Whereas the
best cinematic films, the best horror films I know, are
(22:13):
made by people who or creators who aren't necessarily into
making horror in the first place. And you know the
Horror Efficionados and that's not a horror film, Yes they are, so,
The Exorcist, Jaws, Shining Dracula, one of my favorite films
(22:34):
of all time. All of these films are one of
my favorite films, favorite films of all time. But they
were all way it made by people who normally does
not do horror, and that's what made them so great,
because they take all the horror and in all these
elements that they and they they turn it into the
(22:57):
best horror film they can ever must stir with drama
and ah humor and comedy and romance and and and
really deepened like character um materialization, if you will. Wherever,
(23:22):
but and and whereas so much of the crap of
horror is because they are made by people who just
watched horror, who became uh filmmakers to make horror. So
it's all just a regurgitation of of of of the genre.
(23:47):
And that's the same thing with a lot of heavy
metal and death metal and all that. It's just like
it's just repeated, uh, indulgent sort of homaging, which which
is which is not the foundation that you want to
build on if you want to take the genre forward
or add anything valuable to that, you're just echoing it.
(24:09):
And I think it's the same thing with a lot
of musicals. Um that some people are some people are
just so fascinated with the format that anything that resembles
that just qualifies that because it's just the sound of
a musical. How are you you? I'm standing here? How
about yourself? Are you not? Um? And it's I hate that.
(24:35):
I absolutely fucking hate ship like that. It's horrible. And
but that's why Andrew Lloyd Webber seemed to be. He
seemed to be like very much like Sammy Cooper. I
think he listens to a lot of other things and
then he writes the musical here and there and that
(24:57):
that's I mean, that's such a beautiful way to get
back into all of your influ just too. I mean
on a track like spill Ways, that that piano part,
I mean, that's that could be you know, something straight
out of Aba or something like that too, and it's
it's so beautiful when juxtaposed with these huge heavy riffs too.
I love that interplay and to to to have all
these influences come together, it's it's it's its own unique thing.
(25:18):
Like you said, it's not just you know, regurgitation from
what became before and just because you're so in love
with that genre. It's all the things that you love
and you've built something new out of it. And that's
what is amazing with what you do, in particular with
this new record. I really think that comes across. Yeah. Well,
speaking of regurgitation to the point where it's almost vomiting
(25:40):
onto myself actually would be my constant whacking off over
abba um, which you you sort of shown a little
light on there because Um, I've found myself constantly sort
of trailing them, not only because I'm a big fan,
but how we have sort of ended up in there
(26:02):
in the same studios as they have, and that has
been sort of a ah, a little bit of a thing.
Um where you know, um in Pera was recorded in
uh studio Atlantis, which back in the day, if you
start looking through the records, you will see there was
(26:23):
called metronome back in the day, and that's where recorded
most of their big hits. And if you if you
go online kids and you see the clip where abbas
recording Dancing Queen, that's exactly the studio that we recorded
(26:44):
in Para and the same mixing console, the same gadgets
in the background, the same microphones, everything, And I have
to confess it's the same piano, and it's the same aremba. Yeah,
and it's the same big you know, con sir on
the record that they had on on Money, Money Money,
(27:06):
for example, I think it was and Mama Mea I
was recorded there DoD DoD DoD, doom ding, doom ding,
doom ding, doomding. That's the same thing. So it's during
the recording, it was always like a little bit of
that vibe. You have to go over to the murmba
and play Mama Mia and uh. And later this year,
(27:29):
not to go into any detail about it, but into
into another studio to record something else, and that was
the studio where they recorded the album UM. So that
would be take a chance on Me and Eagle was
in that studio. UM. And then to make things even
(27:50):
more funny, as like almost like a little time lapse
was the fact that we recorded Meliora in Benny Anderson's
own studio where they after us, where they after us
recorded the new Alma Alma record. Wow. But yeah, we've
shared shared studios three times. I've I've heard um that
(28:14):
you're already got your eye towards the next project, chapter
chapter six, whatever that may be. Do you have any
hints of of what's to come? Uh? No, I want
to give that away yet understood. Oh, Tobias, thank you
so much for your time today. I want to take
up too much more of your time, but it's been
such a pleasure speaking you. Thank you so much for
(28:36):
your time on your music. Thank you, Thank you very much.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio,
a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of
Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the
I Heart Radio app Apple Podcast forever you listen to
(28:56):
your favorite podcast.
Hello everyone, and welcome to another episode of Inside the
Studio on iHeart Radio. My name is Jordan runt Hog,
but enough about me. My guest today is fused bone
crunching riffs, radio friendly hooks, and theatrical flair to become
one of the most exciting acts and metal Rolling Stone
recently dubbed his group the New Kings of Occult Rock
for the Satanic Pope guys he wears for his electrifying
(00:24):
live performances. The Garb underscore is what you may call
his complicated relationship with Christianity. Hailing from Sweden or melodic
craftsmanship seems to be part of the national identity. He's
gone by a new name for each of his albums.
He was Papa Emeritus the first, the second, the third,
and most recently Cardinal Copia for his last record, which
(00:45):
explored the medieval black plague, fittingly released just before the
world was shut down for a global pandemic. He embodies
the character of Papua Emeritus the fourth on his latest album, Impara.
It's a philosophically complex study of the rise and fall
of empires, inspired in part by Timothy Parsons book The
Rule of Empires. Those who built them, those who endured them,
(01:07):
and why they always fall. Given the tenuous geopolitical situation
at the moment, his timing seems spot on. I'm so
happy to welcome the mastermind behind Ghost to Bias Ford.
The last time you wrapped a tour for your last album,
(01:28):
which was set in uh the medieval Time of Black Death,
was just days before the world shut down for a
global pandemic. And now, in this time of global turmoil
and Eastern Europe, you're gearing up to release an album
that explores the rise and fall of empires. Uh. Your
timing is certainly spot on, though I hope it doesn't
set the tone for the next two years. Um. There's
something you said in a recent interview that I thought
(01:49):
was so interesting and that it really comes through in
your lyrics. We tend to disregard the cyclical nature of history,
and today review empires as these static, permanent things, which
ignores several millennia of human history. What led you to
tackle the subject on empera Because it's interesting, it's but
(02:10):
it's also uh, It's it's also um current and ever
ever current, omni omni current, and I think that that's
why we we received the news of the world in
a peaval or let's specifically say the Western world and
(02:33):
the people with such a shock because it it's close
to home rather than in some desert somewhere. Um. And
and it's um fascinating, uh, mixed with horror obviously because
(02:53):
I am also I'm just a person in the Western
world who loves sucking ark music. I also need the
world to function the way it it does and that
and that it has been throughout our lives. I wanted
to stay like that. So I don't want it to end.
(03:13):
I don't want it to I want to want certain
things to change, but I want ideally, I want the
clock to turn back to and just stay like that forever.
That would be great. That was interesting that you set
the album in in Victorian times. What was it about
that era that that fascinated you. I guess the industrial
revolution from that period probably set in motion a lot
(03:33):
of the problems that continue to reverberate to this day.
I mean, sometimes you just do something because it looks cool. Um,
it's just a it's just a visually pleasing time period
because it has that um mixture of sort of old
(03:57):
goth mixed of industrialism specifically. Actually I got the idea
not for the Imperial Record. I already already knew that
since many years back. But I got the idea, the
visual idea um just in the beginning. It was just
in the beginning of the pre Kailum promo campaign and
(04:22):
I had a day off, no or no a day off.
I had a promo day in London and I was
actually just for some reason, I was staying up at
the King's Cross or at the St. Pancras station, and
that looks like power move around there. Yeah, And I
came in and I was I was going into St.
(04:43):
Pancras station because there's a lot of stores there. I
think I was just walking into two buy coffee or something,
and I just went in. I mean obviously been there
many times. I've taken the train from there to to
Paris many times. But I just spent a few it's
just looking up a little just not doing anything. And
I just noticed this sort of mixture between the gothic
(05:06):
stony church like um Wall and they had with the
massive industrial ceiling, very tory in and and it just
walking out of there, it was just like, that's exactly
what we're doing next. Time, Um, because I saw the
mixture was so cool, and that once an idea like
(05:28):
that drops, it's just like it just opens up this
big branch. It just branches out very quickly in my head.
And we have presented a little bit of that on
this work, but it's going to be I think even
more in the future. Oh, it's it's so cinematic. I mean,
I think I saw some of your your promo in
(05:49):
uh in London for for this album. It's projected onto
some buildings there, and it does it looks like it
looks like a movie. It's like right out of some
Bramstrokes Jacula or something. Mean, it looks so cool. Uh.
Something that I just appreciate about your storytelling is that
it's not narrative in the strict sense, with a beginning, middle,
and end like a film plot, But it's more of
(06:10):
an exploration of a given topic from all these different angles,
like a variation on a theme, and you get so
many interesting points of view that way. Um, was this
album sort of almost like a warning in a way.
I almost got the sense that the theme was those
who don't remember the past are doomed to repeat it
if you will. Yeah, I mean it's I think that
(06:33):
all of our records have been alarming, all are missed
in a way a new word that everybody knows nowadays. Um.
But I think that the reason why this record sounds
uh additionally alarmist is probably because of its uh timing,
(06:55):
the same way that precal As you said, I had
a sort of clairvoyance over it. Um. But I think
that the theme hasn't really changed much from throughout the records.
It's it's always been sort of shining a light onto
the murkiness of linear religion really linear um life codes
(07:22):
um and the the destructive elements of of structural religion
slash society. And by saying that, you cannot avoid saying
political because it's that's what it is, vat it can
(07:45):
and church and the Bible was put together for political reasons.
So yes, it's it's all about that. It's all about that.
It's never been anything about It has nothing to do
with God or anything. It was just to to to
control people, to control this cult that they needed to
(08:05):
have on their side, and just made things easier for me.
It doesn't have that. It wasn't like that this record
felt like it was taking everything to or two, and
not new in a new direction. It was just like,
you know, just maybe you just get a little bit
more poignant or or um with age or with age
(08:28):
or rage, you just get a little bit more like
to the point. But thematically it doesn't really differ much
from the first two records, the first being always a
little bit more vitious and a little bit just like
throwing fun words into play, but the second one where
the lyrics were a little bit more uh realistic, if
(08:51):
you will. I don't want to say that, but it's
you know, there was always like an ambigus ambiguity between
you know, the fictional world of of interesting Latin I
Latin based words that you sort of associate with the
with golf and death metal and all that, but I
(09:12):
also had an undertone of something streaked in there. Um.
But if you, if you want to, you can just
turn around, if you if you if you're one of
those people who are like, we're a rock band, should
talk about a fucking politics, you can just you can
just easily see it for what it is. It's forty
minutes of rock music. It's just a fucking rock record.
(09:35):
That's what we do. We we play rock music. And
then we go out on tour. That's that's what we do.
I mean, these songs, they just sound so enormous. I
mean they sound custom made to be played at stadiums.
At what point in your writing process do you begin
to think of an audience. Are you thinking early on,
as you're putting, you know, the riffs together and writing
the track, how they'll respond and how we'll go over
(09:56):
on stage or does that come later and in the
beginning are you just kind of emoting I think, as
any architect that you you will at some point, even
when you're creating your idea, think of practical things like
this giant slab of concrete cannot float in thin air?
(10:17):
Or can it? You know, yes it can. If we
hide this underneath it, it will look like it's floating
in thin air. But you don't just disregard the fact
that a giant concrete slab will sucking, not just elevate,
and that that is you You do think about that
(10:39):
when you're writing songs. If you if you are a band,
if you write songs to be performed, there will be
at some point a practical evaluation of the track. How
does this work out? How how do we play this,
How will how will it sound? How will this translate?
(11:01):
Is this understandable? It's just and but but I so
did grindcore bands as well. You you orgonomically need to
figure the song out to make it feel a certain way.
And and that's that's what's what's arranging songs and for
(11:24):
an ensemble is it's to how to coordinate it to
be performed. And uh, you know most bands do. And
I mean even I don't know if the Shacks had it,
had it like uh and go with because it sounded
it like that. They just started making noise and that
(11:45):
became entertainment as well. So it's you don't always have
to if you don't want to. But if you if
you're if you have your if the expectancy is for
people to show up and and dance along to your music,
it will greatly benefit if you sort of have that
(12:06):
in mind. I love that you just referenced the Shags.
I love that album so much. Uh yeah, me too good.
It's it's the utmost perfected manifestation of exactly the opposite
of everything I spoke of. It's just it's an endurance
test to listen to for anyone listening right now who
hasn't heard that check it out. Uh. They are a
(12:29):
group of I I think teen girls in the late
sixties whom I think their father had a vision. If
I recall that, they that that that God wanted them
to be in a band, and so he gave them
instruments without really instructing them. And it's just pure it's punk,
maybe twelve years early, I guess. As a way of
thinking about it, it's definitely Uh, it's an interesting sound, yeah,
(12:52):
but it definitely it definitely sounds like they just pressed
the record button and then they took up the instrument
for the first time in their lives. And me and
my daughter sits and listen to that in the car
all the time. My friend foot food food, food, food, food.
It's Halloween, and it's impossible even if you're if you're
(13:17):
somewhat musical, it's still like an completely not You cannot
sing a long to it. You can just mimic the
sounds and just sort of like, uh, sort of do
wonky moves, and but it's it's entertainment and that is
what music is, regardless off you're listening to Fucking Yes
or the Shags, It's meant to entertain you. So they did.
(13:39):
They did exactly. They wanted to be rock band and
they played rock music to make people smile, and they do.
They still do, and that's fifty five years ago whatever,
you know, so that's pure as well. We said starting
(14:07):
this conversation, you you just wrapped the first leg of
your tour playing I know you opened the show with
Kasian and played a lot of songs from the new
album that's not out yet. What was the feedback like
from the crowd on these new songs that, in a
lot of cases they had never heard before. Huntress Moon
has obviously I've been out for quite a while, so
that that really feels like one of our like regulars
(14:31):
now Kayserrian was, I mean, I know, not to sound
fucking cocky or anything, but you know, I knew there
was a good song and it's a big opener, so
it's like I knew that people will like it, people
should like it, therefore we're playing it. And but we
already knew beforehand that people were going to be a
(14:52):
little bit of non responsive, if you will, the same
same way that they were to Spirit when we started
playing that in on the Maliora cycle before the album
came out the same way that people reacted to Parispera
and in Ferry. Sorry, we just say Parispera. So I
(15:13):
never I have said the full title in ten years.
Um we we did that as well. So we we've
done that so many times, like coming out on stage
on a news cycle with a big opener on a
record that you haven't heard yet. Um. So it's it's
almost like a tradition. Um. And it always turns into
(15:36):
the same sort of, uh, you know, deer in headlights
sort of situation in the beginning, and then when we
go from the first song into Rats, all of a sudden,
the crowd sort of what becomes comes a lot. But
that's fine, they'll they'll learn. You mentioned Hunter's mood. I
(15:58):
meant to mention this earlier. I want to congratulate you
for having that in the soundtrack to the Lace Halloween
movie Halloween Kills over the over the end credits, which
is like prime soundtrack spot. That must have been a
cool moment for you as a as a big horror fan.
Of course, yeah, I know what. I don't know what
to say more than that, of course, it was a
big thing. Uh. I've always been ever since I was
(16:20):
a kid watching these films and you sort of uh
noticed the um the connection obviously, I mean big, big examples.
So that was obviously Man Behind the Mask and Friday
six with It, yeah, or something like that. And I've
(16:41):
always been in awe of of of horror film music,
but the way that a lot of rock bands source
associated with the horror I liked A Night of Living
Dead obviously was no Return of the Living Dead, sorry,
Return of the Living Dead. The eighties sort of comic
(17:02):
comedic horror film I'll you know, obviously had this uh
great display of a lot of cool rock and punk bands.
So that was always something that I wanted to do,
which is cool. I say, could you ever uh following
the footsteps of like John Carpenter and see yourself writing
a script for horror movie or something like that. I'm
(17:25):
very interested in the cinematic world. I don't know if
if I were given the card blanche to sort of
go in head first into cinema, I don't know if
horror films would be my first get to go to. Actually,
Oh interesting, I am a giant fan of horror, but
that was that would not be my first I am
(17:46):
more of a UM. If I were to make films,
it would be more in in some some weird universe
between UM and and you know, with with the quirky
and gothic sort of little shadow of Lynch, but in
(18:08):
the quirkiness of Wes Anderson and and you know, more
of the Cohen Brothers, more more comedic. But anything could happen,
sort of mixture between everything. I'm way more like a
mishmash sort of person person sets in there too. I
feel like I can see a little bit of that
maybe yeah, but never. I don't think I would ever
(18:31):
go into like full on or just just for the
sake of it being scary. It would be, but in
the film by me, it would would definitely like if
someone died, it would be like in a horrifically bloody
way just because it's that would be a fun way
to sort of just incorporate an element of splatter um.
(18:52):
But the story itself would be sort of comedic, tragic
and romantic, in some sort of weird fairy tale of
complete un real. Dude, is m hearing you talk about
(19:13):
the kind of ideal movie you would like to make.
I'm so interested in just your incredibly diverse influences. I
love that you close your shows with Emmy Lou Harris's
Sorrow and the Winds, which is not something that you know,
people would traditionally associate with with you know, hard rock
and roll in metal. UM. I know you've cited people
like Blue Oyster Colt and you play a Metallica cover
(19:33):
on this recent tour, but you've also cited tore Amos
and Andrew Lloyd Webber's influences. What is it about someone
like Andrew Lloyd Webber who who really inspires you? Somebody
that I wouldn't have automatically thought would be an influence
of yours because you write hit songs. I think that
there are there are several uh what do you call,
like YouTube profiles that likes to to make um, you
(19:59):
know me musical versions of of anything, and even though
that they are joking, I think that there are a
lot of musicals that are written that way because people
think that if you were in the musical, you talk
about this and you point over there and it's it's
(20:20):
so bad that I, you know, I just want to puke. Unfortunately,
a few films that have been made like as musicals
are also like insanely bad, even when it's people that
I would expect to do better, And whereas Andrew Lloyd
Webber has done, it's like normal talking and then all
(20:43):
of a sudden they erupt into a song. And when
they erupt into a song, it's memories or Music of
the Night, Phantom of the Opera, the song that's our
fucking that. They are fucking smash hits. So if you're
making theater or and it goes into musicals, and and
(21:06):
I prefer it when like each track is like a banger,
it needs to be like a real proper standalone uh
song from the radio. And that's what separates his music
so for much from from the the standard musical, because
(21:27):
a lot of the standard musical are are very generic.
It's a style of music which to compare it to
to horror films. And this is where um, if if
if I would, if I were to talk about not
the use not the horror genre in general, where that
sort of comes in different uh time periods and all that,
(21:49):
but if because they're there are a lot of Italian
and eighties horror that I like for maybe different reasons
than saying that the films are rate. They might be entertaining,
but they might not be great cinematic crafts, Whereas the
best cinematic films, the best horror films I know, are
(22:13):
made by people who or creators who aren't necessarily into
making horror in the first place. And you know the
Horror Efficionados and that's not a horror film, Yes they are, so,
The Exorcist, Jaws, Shining Dracula, one of my favorite films
(22:34):
of all time. All of these films are one of
my favorite films, favorite films of all time. But they
were all way it made by people who normally does
not do horror, and that's what made them so great,
because they take all the horror and in all these
elements that they and they they turn it into the
(22:57):
best horror film they can ever must stir with drama
and ah humor and comedy and romance and and and
really deepened like character um materialization, if you will. Wherever,
(23:22):
but and and whereas so much of the crap of
horror is because they are made by people who just
watched horror, who became uh filmmakers to make horror. So
it's all just a regurgitation of of of of the genre.
(23:47):
And that's the same thing with a lot of heavy
metal and death metal and all that. It's just like
it's just repeated, uh, indulgent sort of homaging, which which
is which is not the foundation that you want to
build on if you want to take the genre forward
or add anything valuable to that, you're just echoing it.
(24:09):
And I think it's the same thing with a lot
of musicals. Um that some people are some people are
just so fascinated with the format that anything that resembles
that just qualifies that because it's just the sound of
a musical. How are you you? I'm standing here? How
about yourself? Are you not? Um? And it's I hate that.
(24:35):
I absolutely fucking hate ship like that. It's horrible. And
but that's why Andrew Lloyd Webber seemed to be. He
seemed to be like very much like Sammy Cooper. I
think he listens to a lot of other things and
then he writes the musical here and there and that
(24:57):
that's I mean, that's such a beautiful way to get
back into all of your influ just too. I mean
on a track like spill Ways, that that piano part,
I mean, that's that could be you know, something straight
out of Aba or something like that too, and it's
it's so beautiful when juxtaposed with these huge heavy riffs too.
I love that interplay and to to to have all
these influences come together, it's it's it's its own unique thing.
(25:18):
Like you said, it's not just you know, regurgitation from
what became before and just because you're so in love
with that genre. It's all the things that you love
and you've built something new out of it. And that's
what is amazing with what you do, in particular with
this new record. I really think that comes across. Yeah. Well,
speaking of regurgitation to the point where it's almost vomiting
(25:40):
onto myself actually would be my constant whacking off over
abba um, which you you sort of shown a little
light on there because Um, I've found myself constantly sort
of trailing them, not only because I'm a big fan,
but how we have sort of ended up in there
(26:02):
in the same studios as they have, and that has
been sort of a ah, a little bit of a thing.
Um where you know, um in Pera was recorded in
uh studio Atlantis, which back in the day, if you
start looking through the records, you will see there was
(26:23):
called metronome back in the day, and that's where recorded
most of their big hits. And if you if you
go online kids and you see the clip where abbas
recording Dancing Queen, that's exactly the studio that we recorded
(26:44):
in Para and the same mixing console, the same gadgets
in the background, the same microphones, everything, And I have
to confess it's the same piano, and it's the same aremba. Yeah,
and it's the same big you know, con sir on
the record that they had on on Money, Money Money,
(27:06):
for example, I think it was and Mama Mea I
was recorded there DoD DoD DoD, doom ding, doom ding,
doom ding, doomding. That's the same thing. So it's during
the recording, it was always like a little bit of
that vibe. You have to go over to the murmba
and play Mama Mia and uh. And later this year,
(27:29):
not to go into any detail about it, but into
into another studio to record something else, and that was
the studio where they recorded the album UM. So that
would be take a chance on Me and Eagle was
in that studio. UM. And then to make things even
(27:50):
more funny, as like almost like a little time lapse
was the fact that we recorded Meliora in Benny Anderson's
own studio where they after us, where they after us
recorded the new Alma Alma record. Wow. But yeah, we've
shared shared studios three times. I've I've heard um that
(28:14):
you're already got your eye towards the next project, chapter
chapter six, whatever that may be. Do you have any
hints of of what's to come? Uh? No, I want
to give that away yet understood. Oh, Tobias, thank you
so much for your time today. I want to take
up too much more of your time, but it's been
such a pleasure speaking you. Thank you so much for
(28:36):
your time on your music. Thank you, Thank you very much.
We hope you enjoyed this episode of Inside the Studio,
a production of I Heart Radio. For more episodes of
Inside the Studio or other fantastic shows, check out the
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(28:56):
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