June 18, 2024 • 46 mins
This week, Tommy is joined by actor and singer Jamie Campbell Bower, best known for playing the highly talked about villain Henry, aka Vecna, in the smash-hit Netflix series, Stranger Things. His performance has forever cemented him as being one of the most epic villains in the history of television and film. Jamie is currently in the middle of filming the fifth and final season of the series. You may also know Jamie from captivating audiences as Anthony in Tim Burton’s 2007 gothic musical extravaganza, Sweeney Todd: The Demon Barber of Fleet Street and co-starring in The Moral Instruments: City of Bones, or from Fantastic Beasts, Twilight, and so many other impressive television and film credits. Today Jamie opens up about his brand new single “Home,” why he was delighted but also terrified to step into the country music space, how he often felt like he didn't belong while growing up and still sometimes feels that today, the fine line between maintaining privacy but also opening up in his music, a sneak peek into what filming the final season of Stranger Things has been like, if his voice ever gets hoarse from playing Vecna, why that voice is sacred to him, his brand new movie dropping June 28th called Horizon, why he wants to glamorize sobriety, the importance of embracing the beautiful moments in life, and how he is still getting used to all of the attention that comes with being on a hit tv show.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me.
Tommy de Dario, the brilliant Jamie Campbell Bower is my
guest today and wow, he has got to be one
of the coolest dudes that I've gotten the chance to
chat with.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And I mean that now.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You most likely know Jamie from playing the highly talked
about villain Henry aka Vekna in Stranger Things, where he
delivers a performance that, man, it's gonna forever be talked
about because he is so scary and so damn good.
But aside from Stranger Things, he has a very long
list of credits to his name, from captivating audiences as
(00:39):
Anthony in Tim Burton's two thousand and seven Gothic musical
Extravaganza Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street, to
co starring in The Mortal Instruments City of Bones. Oh,
and then there's the fan favorite Fantastic Feasts and so
many more memorable TV and film performances. I will be
here for two days if I keep going on. But
(01:00):
his talent it also extends into the music world, where
most recently he released his single titled Home the lyrics
you need to listen carefully to them. They are so
powerful and so vibrant. You can see everything he is
singing come to life as you are listening. And he
also announced his hard rock project Blood Magic to critical
(01:23):
acclaim no surprise there with his single death Slash Rebirth.
Oh and because he's not busy enough, he has a
new movie called Her Eyes in dropping June twenty eighth,
So let's add that to the mix of everything he
has going on.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This man he can do it all.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And not only that, he's such an introspective, thought provoking,
grounded person.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I really enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Talking with him today about his artistry and his outlooks
on life and so much more. A guest like Jamie
is thrilling for me because he brings so much truth
to the discussion, and I think through sharing our truths
is when we can all really connect and feel less
alone in the world. So let's see if today we
can get Jamie to say something that he has never
(02:06):
said before. Jamie Campbell Bauer, how you doing, my friend?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. How
are you?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I am fantastic. I'm so happy you're here.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I know you have a lot going on here in
the middle of filming the final season of Stranger Things.
I believe you were like on set six hours ago,
twelve hours ago, and here you are, so thank you
for being here.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Oh you're so welcome. Yeah no, I was. I was.
I was doing things that I can't talk about, but
yeah I was. I was on set and it's all
very exciting.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Is that weird for you to just like jump into
regular life like you are today, Like you were just
playing a villain, you know, six hours ago in this
monster and here you are just kicking it with me.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Is that weird for you?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yes, I'll be honest with you, it can be. It
can be quite strange with that. It's always interesting when
you're in the middle of filming something you don't want
to be saying too much.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, it's yes, yeah, yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I can imagine you're like, wait a minute, I am
me today, Okay, good to know.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah yeah yeah, finding me again, finding me again within
that space is always interesting. I think. I think I
suppose as an actor, there's always that part of you
that always wants to bring your own personal experience to
the work that you're doing, grounding it in truth. But
then there's also a part of me that always is
looking for the truth within the character as well. So
(03:29):
you know, blending those two worlds is always an interesting thing,
and I think subconsciously you're always picking up on things
as you go through the experience, you know, and as
you know, and as I've said, you know, I do
like to involve myself quite heavily in the work that
I do, so yesterday thankfully wasn't too much of a
heavy day. Otherwise we may not be here today, but
(03:49):
we are, unknowing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, It's very nice to see you and Jamie form
because I have a feeling you'll be scaring us plenty
in the new season, so I'm glad you're here, as.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
He fingers cross, fingers crossed.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Well man, we have a lot to cover today, and
I want to start with Home, your brand new single.
Admittedly I didn't know a lot about your musical career.
I knew you as Jamie the actor, and I started
hearing some things last year and I'm like, oh my god,
this guy can fucking sing like it blew me away.
And the power of your writing is what, really, you know,
(04:26):
struck me the most. So when you released Home, you
put out that you were delighted, but you were also
terrified to release it.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Why I think for me and the process that I
go through now with my music is you know, I'm
always trying to be honest, you know, with the presentation
of myself. And also I think as I've ventured further
(04:53):
into I mean, I'm even getting far talking about this now,
but as I ventured further into writing more country style music,
there is always that part of me that feels imposter syndrome.
I think I've always felt that I've always had a
little bit of imposter syndrome, both in music and in
acting too. I know it's the thing that I love
the most in the world, but there's always that part
(05:15):
of me that, you know, that looks at people who
have come before me and their greatness and gone, oh
my God, like I'll never be as good as you,
which is a very British thing. It's a sort of
self effacing in to that. But I do find that
with that fear, and if I'm feeling that fear, it's
generally a good thing. It's generally me It generally means
(05:38):
that what I'm doing is honest, and there's a vulnerability
to it, which I really.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Value well, and you're not letting that said imposter syndrome
paralyze you. You're still doing the work you want to do,
which I think is really cool because a lot of
people would say.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Ooh, yeah, that one. I'm out, I'm not doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I think that's part of my nature. That has always
been part of my nature. There's that rebel inside of
me that whilst I feel the fear, and as I've
grown older and become more comfortable in my skin, being
able to understand my own fear and recognize that, you know,
(06:17):
fear is false evidence appearing real. That's a phrase that
I've learned, and to push through it and to go
no matter what. And we're in such an interesting time
with like releasing music or releasing art in any form,
you know that now I do tend to kind of
create and go, Okay, let's put this out next week.
Let's just go for it, you know, regardless, I'm an
(06:40):
independent artist. I don't have to answer to a record label,
and so I do have the freedom within that because
the more I sit on things, the more I think
about them, and the more the fear will build and
I'll go no, no, no, no, Like I'm running away.
This isn't happening. That courage for me has to be
has to be instant, and it has to be Yeah,
(07:02):
there's an instinctuality with it. I think that I now
go with. So, yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. It's
really sweet thing to say.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, I think it's really cool that you push through
and you created the song. You're stepping into the genre
and home is such an interesting concept. I mean for me,
I could really relate to it because I've always had
a very difficult relationship with you know, home and where
my home is and where I belong and where I
don't belong in all of it from a young boy
to now. I think a lot of people can relate
to that idea. And the lyrics, like I said earlier,
(07:33):
are so powerful. So you tell me, as the artist,
what is the meaning behind the song for you?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
This song? I think for me, you know, I'm a transplant.
I live in America now, and I think as I've
grown older, I've understood my desire for a level of
security within my life. You know, I'm an artist. I create.
I've been living out of a bag basically since I
(07:59):
was about a eighteen You know, traveling around and to
have somewhere that I can go back to that is mine,
and yes, okay, it is there is There is certainly
a sort of a materialistic idea behind that, you know,
that to have something that belongs to me, that feels
safe to me, and in the same breath, that sense
(08:23):
of security and that sense of belonging and that sense
of feeling warm like you did when you were a kid,
maybe when one was much younger before before the world
came crashing in on them, is something that I can
also relate to. And I wrote it with my friend
(08:45):
Ryan Nissi, who is an amazing songwriter, and I've loved
his work for years and years and years. And you know,
I don't always I haven't always loved writing with other people.
I'll be honest with you. You know, I was I was
in a group. I was in a band where we
kind a major record deal for which you know, incredibly grateful,
and all of a sudden, there were lots of voices
(09:06):
in the room and you go into these writing sessions
with all these people, and all of a sudden, the
intention is, well, let's make a hit, you know, and
it's like, well, hold on, that's not what I want
to be doing. I want to be exploring the depths
of myself. So to venture out into a co writing
session again with somebody that I love was just just
(09:28):
a total blessing. And so Ryan and I were talking
about this idea of home and talking about whether it
pertains to a place, a person or yourself, you know,
and within that, I think the song tries to cover
as much of that as possible. Whilst it's describing. Ryan
(09:50):
likes to refer to his own music in the same
way that Nick ca reppos to his music is kind
of sad, bastard music, which I really appreciate, Like I'm
obsessed with that. But you know, it starts, it starts
with this idea of of being tied to an individual
when the seas are rough, when when the winds blow,
(10:13):
you know, can we support each other and can we
find ourselves that place of belonging And then at the end,
you know, the ship sinks, but they're still together. So
that sense of belonging was a togetherness which is always
interesting and it's it's a fascinating thing for me because
I never want to particularly in my you know, in
(10:34):
my sort of adulthood, you know, to be like codependent,
you know, I like, you know, like you're my everything.
But there is a sense of when you work hard
at something with somebody and you create a life, and
you create a space, and you create a warmth and
you create a home, there is just that sense of, yeah,
we're doing this, you know, and this is beautiful and
(10:57):
I can really, I can really relate to that. So yeah,
it's sort of it's tied in with a lot of things.
And that's one of the things I love about Ryan's
writing is I am very much quite a linear storyteller
in my writing, you know, I like a beginning and
an end and it sort of follows one part, whereas
with Ryan's writing, each line has so much in it.
(11:20):
And that was one of the things I loved working
on the song with him the most, you know, was
what can we pepper in the next line, you know,
and then how do we tie that to what's come
before to be able to tell a story. It's really
really cool. So yeah, that's kind of what we were
going for.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I think the storytelling of it is what really struck me.
A lot of music today to me is I mean
not to like knock other genres or artists, but there's
no story, and it's like one bead or one word
twenty five times. And I like the story and I
really appreciate that with your writing, and as you said,
you stepped into this country arena which was new for you, right,
(11:59):
So is that something you want to continue exploring. Has
that been fun to dabble in?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, It's something I've always wanted to explore. Somebody a
few months back reminded me of something that I'd written
around twenty thirteen around this time on social media, where
I just said all I want to be is a
country music.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Stuff no way.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, and it's true. You know when I started the
group that I was mentioning earlier, you know, whilst I
was writing that first record, I was also writing a
lot of country music and I never felt I never
felt like I was in a space to kind of
put that out And going back to what we were
saying about storytelling, I think for me, that's what country
(12:41):
music does so great folk music to gospel music, sad
bustard music like Nick Cave, you know, they tell these
really beautiful stories. One of the things that I think
for me as an artist going into that genre is
like I really appreciate so much of like what that means,
you know, Like I have an old truck from nineteen
(13:04):
seventy two that I do love to death. But am
I going to ride about my old truck. Probably not.
I'm going to try and explore things in a little
in a different way. So yeah, it's definitely something that
I'm going to continue to do and something that I
hold great reverence for. And I think that America in
(13:25):
general has such a beautiful history of music, you know,
coming from England and predominantly putting out music that is
rock and roll. You know, I come to America and
I get to go to places like Memphis and meet
artists that you know, have been doing this for so
long and soak up so much of that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I was down there. It's down in Memphis, just pre Christmas,
hanging out with this guy called Matt who started a
studio called Southern Grooves, and he used to be an
engineer at Sun Studios. And we ended up going to
Royal Studios, which is where Al Green recorded, and we
(14:06):
walk into the studio and boom, Mitchell is in there,
and all of a sudden we hear this organ and
we walk into the room and there are these like
old guys in the room, and of course you always
pay respect to your elders anyway, but something about walking
into this space was like, all right, I need to
show a little bit more respect if this feels kind
of amazing. Of course they're playing music. I really understand
(14:29):
what a session is like. Anyway. Matt turns to me
and he's like, you know who those guys are, and
I was like, no, I honestly, I have no idea.
He's like, that's the high rhythm section. And they tracked
on Al Green's records back in the day. Then they're
still making music now. There's still some of the house
band for artists to come in. So that it was
just like a huge blessing and what a gift, you know.
(14:51):
So yeah, I try to soak up as much of
that as I can and just really immerse myself in
that world. And you know, going back to gospel, you know,
finding old gospel records, it's very difficult to find, you know,
recorded gospel music because so much of it was just
it just happened in a church and it's kind of
(15:12):
passed down through generations and you know, you can still
kind of hear it now and what people are doing,
but to find the old stuff is really really difficult,
and I managed to stumble across. There was a group
called the Staples Singers, who later on became more sort
of funk music, but they started as a as a
(15:32):
gospel group. And I found a recording of theirs called
the Freedom Highway, which was recorded in the sixties, and
it's all like live in a church, and you know,
it doesn't sound great, but by God, it's got a
lot of soul to it. And you can't replicate that,
you can't, but you can certainly soak that up, and
(15:54):
you can certainly be like, all right, how do I
put as much of my own vibe into this as
these people are putting into whatever it is that's coming
out of their mouths or out of their instruments. Now, So, yeah,
I'm obsessed with it. I hold, as I say, great
reverence for it and great respect for it too. And
I grew up. I grew up. I was born in
(16:16):
London and we left there when I was eight, and
so we moved to the countryside. And so you know,
I do understand the idea of kind of simplicity, which
I think is what a lot of people are looking
for nowadays. You know, we're seeing we're seeing a great
sort of turn towards kind of country music, which is fantastic,
you know, kind of Post doing his thing in that world,
(16:36):
which is just amazing to see and people sort of
paying more attention to it. But I think ultimately it
comes down to this idea of simplicity. It comes down
to this idea of I don't want to sound crazy,
but like, has the sort of capitalist system failed us here?
You know, are we looking for something that's more real?
Are we looking for our connection to nature? To grass?
(16:57):
You know, people say, go, oh, I didn't touch some grass. Yeah,
any more grass than when you're out in the countryside, right,
And I think that's kind of where we're seeing this
this go to and that's something that I can certainly
relate to. And I think that comes with age as well.
I think, you know, this idea of I don't know,
life was much simpler back when I was a kid,
(17:18):
and you know, I heard my parents say it. I
don't believe them, or but you know, now I'm older
and I'm like, well, maybe there was this level of
kind of protection in this little bubble in the English
country I had, which which is a beautiful thing. It's
a beautiful thing, and I hope everybody finds that for themselves.
I hope everybody finds themselves that that place of safety.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I guess, well, I think we're all craving that nostalgia
and like you said, simpler times, and I like that
this song, you know, makes you kind of feel like
you want that and you crave that, and that it's
okay to to feel like you need that right whatever
that idea of home is to you. So it's really cool,
and I look forward to seeing more from you in
(18:02):
the genre because if this single is any little taste
of what's to come, I think some good shit is coming.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Man. So that's exciting. That's very exciting.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
That's very sweet. Thank you so much. I'm just out
there doing my thing and hoping that if one person
connects to it, you know, that's.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Enough for me. Jamie.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
When you're acting, you're obviously playing a character and you're
reciting someone else's words, and it's a very different mode
of art, I'll say, than writing your own music and
bearing your soul and being vulnerable in that sense is
it hard for you to open up as you did.
You have to get used to that or was that
always kind of easy and that's why you began songwriting?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Oh wow, there's been a journey within that, for sure.
I think the first record that I made with the
band that I often talk about came out of getting
so know and coming to terms with myself and coming
to terms with unprocessed anger or fear, and that was
(19:11):
a very cathartic and freeing time. As that progressed, found
myself getting lost. You know, I found myself getting lost
in that and I've been open about that before in
other interviews where I just kind of felt like I'd
lost the DNA, like the projects had lost the DNA,
like I wasn't as connected to myself as I needed
(19:32):
to be. There were times within that project after the
first record, for sure, where I certainly felt that. You know,
we went and we moved into this house in the
middle of nowhere in England, and I always wanted to
do this thing that, you know, where the Rolling Stones
went and lived in frontce and made a record, and
I was like, I want to do that. So we
went and we lived in this place and there were
(19:54):
certainly times in that experience where I felt like, yeah,
I hit it again. But then there were where I
just didn't feel like that, and I felt like I'd
lost myself. So when that project ended and I was
able to write stuff that was coming from my heart
or take the stuff that had come from my heart
during that time and present it, they felt like there
(20:18):
was this newfound sense of freedom. You know, that really
really was this new found sense of freedom. And you know, look,
I am and I can be a very private person,
you know. I think it's just part of who I am.
And I've been in this industry for long enough now,
you know to kind of be sometimes be cautious. But
(20:42):
with my music, I'm sat alone and I'm sat in
my house and I'm not thinking about the listener. I'm
not thinking about it being a radio hit. You know.
I'm just trying to write from the heart, and I
have demos of songs that are not from that space.
(21:04):
But then I do get to that point sometimes where
I'm like, yeah, that's it, I've hit it, I've got it.
Then it's coming out and I you know, I was
working on a mix with a friend of mine recently,
and I think this idea of like a visceral reaction
when you're creating art is really important. Does it make
(21:25):
you jump around when you're making it? Does it make
you cry when you're making it? Well, if it's doing
something to you, then you're telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
The worst thing is when I step away from something
and I was like, I felt nothing, well, just completely
disassociated on my own life. So is it hard sometimes?
I think sometimes, like you know, digging around in grief
or digging around in pain can always be difficult to be.
(22:00):
It's uncomfortable. That's part of my journey is coming to
terms with those parts of myself knowing that there needs
to be space for all of it. You know, there
just has to be space for all of it.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Well, I think that's the part of the beauty of
your artistry. It's you dig around, you write about and
sing about the things that truly matter to you so
that you do feel something, because the hope is you
want other people to feel something. And that's what I
felt listening to this song, you know, And like I said,
I gravitate towards people that have something real to say.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's why I started the show.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I mean, I you know, also cover red carpets and
junkets where you get three minutes with somebody five minutes
if you're lucky and you can't have a real conversation,
you know, and to me, there's nothing better than being
able to really have those forms of connection. And for that,
I think it makes your music really compelling to listen to.
So Home is out now for everybody wondering how they
(22:57):
can listen, you can download it. It's fantastic to definitely
take a listen to it. Jamie, your instrument, It's one
of the most interesting voices that I have heard in
both your acting and your singing, and I think to
have that combination is not something you see often. You know,
even obviously playing vecna, what you do with your voice
(23:18):
and how you get there and just seemingly seem to
whip that on up. It's like wait, how And then
you hear you on your music and it's totally different.
Do you ever get like a sore or horse throat
when you're playing that role of ecna?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Like, are you ever like guys, I need a minute?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
No. I found out through process of failure. I found
out kind of how I could do it, And a
lot of it is just about relaxing. It's just about
trying to be as relaxed as possible. Same thing with singing.
To the moment I tense up. The moment I start
to worry is the moment it all goes wrong and
(23:57):
everything just goes like that, and no air is getting through,
nothings vibrating how it needs to. So no, I don't
get horse and sm asked to an sm as to shout,
and I, yeah, I recently had that experience for like
I had to scream, and then I had to come
in and not scream. And I woke up in the
morning being like I've got PTSD from like being out
(24:19):
like touring a band where I'm like shouting every night
and you've got another show to play, like, oh my god,
I got and everything just starts to like close up.
So I had to really just like reground myself and
resenter myself. But but no, you know, I don't don't
I don't get horse too often. And I've said this before.
You know, there's there's an interesting thing I think that
(24:40):
happens with our voices in general, which is when we
are to to be relaxed, we do get this deeper
tmbre we get a deeper, a deeper resonance, and that's
why we're attracted to certain thingers. You know, Oh, we
get a different tombre, a different resonance, I should say,
because not all things, you know, go deeper. Some times
it's just air or something coming through. And yeah, you know,
(25:04):
I said, I remember. I remember day one of season
four playing Beckner Denise, who's who's our p R? You know,
She was like, wow, you know your voice is so different,
and I was like, oh, it's because I'm telling the truth.
And I was like in full Veckner and just like
looked at her saying this, and and I was like,
(25:25):
oh my god, like what, sorry, I'm so sorry. Sorry,
I don't forgive me. He took over. So yeah, yeah,
I don't. I don't get wars, but I do. It's
it's it's also an interesting indicator of when it's good
for me as well. Just the air falls dead silent
(25:47):
on set sometimes when I'm doing it and it just
feels it's otherworldly. It's otherworldly. That's that's the only way
I can describe it. It doesn't come from me, it
really really doesn't. And it's that's the same thing with music.
You know, when something is real, it's it's coming from
it's coming from a place of total unknowing.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, I know it seems like that. And I
mean nobody, nobody taught you how to do that voice, right,
like you just kind of developed it, which is why
it seemingly came from nowhere.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I've listened to a lot
of Tom Waits in my time, but yeah, it kind
of came from nowhere. I mean I started and I
did it. You know, I know, Matt and Ross are
very they have a lot of reference, and Freddy Krueger
is an iconic character, but Freddy's very There's a lot
of energy going on behind Freddie all the time. You know,
(26:37):
he's always on the chase and he's always moving quite quickly.
And then and I was sort of trying to emulate
this thing and I couldn't quite get it. And then
I was like, I need to go back to hell
raised So I need to go back to Doug Bradley.
And I went back in there and I was like, ah,
this is it, this is it for me. There is
a there is a level of just what's the WORSD
(27:00):
But it's considered choice. There's just considered choice within it.
And I really was like that for me, that's hitting
a place that feels real to me for sure. So yeah,
it just took time and the pandemic, you know, thankfully,
by the grace of God, you know, I was given
(27:21):
the blessing of a pandemic to work through whatever I
needed to work through to figure out how to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Do people just stop you all the time and say
can you give me the voice? Like, is that a
regular occurrence for you?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes? Absolutely, absolutely, And it's funny. I'm always I'm so
protective of it. I'm so so protective of it. And
that's because for me, there's a I don't know, there's
a sort of sacred nature to it that I don't
want to that I don't want to monopolize or bastards,
(27:54):
you know, I really don't. I just I wanted it
to be in its place on the screen and then
it's done and that's it, and that's where it lives.
And Okay, do I sometimes send my partner voice notes
if I'm sat on the toilet, you know she's in
the other room. Yeah, of course I do. I mean,
i'd be lying if I said that I didn't do that,
but you know that's in the privacy of my own home,
(28:17):
and you know, bless her, you know, she has to
sit and deal with me whilst I'm kind of working
on projects like that, you know, so I am walking
around the house kind of growling. So yeah, they do,
they do ask me, they do ask me, and it's
always such a blessing and I think, you know, that's
the other thing about this show is like just to
be able to be a small part of creating something
(28:37):
that means so much to so many people. Again, it's
not something that you focus on much sho doing it,
but when you come out the other side of it,
it's quite intense and it's quite shocking. It's quite shocking.
You never there's still a level of separation for me
within that, there's still like this. I was listening to
(28:58):
your episode on with Gosh I can't remember his name,
a singer from Matchbox twenty, and he was saying, you
know how it finds it difficult to accept, thank you
very much. Can relate to that, again being English, but
you know, maybe I'm just using that as a sort
of defense mechanism, But there's this level of separation you
(29:18):
know that happens within that and I'm so grateful. But
it is weird. Sometimes it's odd. It can be really odd,
it can be really really odd. I'm just doing what
I do and hoping that actually what I'm doing is
serving the story or serving the idea that someone else
has had. Okay, yes, I'm bringing my own ideas to it,
(29:40):
but I didn't write this show. I'm not behind the camera.
I'm just trying to do the best thing that I
can do. And to see that land with people is yeah,
it's amazing, confusing, amazing, a blessing.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, I'm sure, because you're just showing up and doing
your job and it will forever go down as one
of the most epic villain performances in the history of
television and film, and it's been time and time written about.
And you're like, well, I'm just showing up for work
and that's nice, but you're doing your job. But soak
it in. I mean, you know, I know it's all right,
as you said, you're British, but you know, enjoy the
(30:17):
feeling of what it means to so many people out there,
because it does, and to have people always asking you
to do the voice like clearly it resonates and you know,
sorry to disappoint you're not going on cameo anytime soon
and doing the voice for people's birthdays. But they all
love it, they all want it, and it means a
lot for fear of the Secret Service coming in here
(30:38):
any second and throwing me on the floor and tasing me.
I'm going to reluctantly and carefully ask is there anything
you can tease for this final season?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I think I can go with the party line, which
is you know and actually kind of also how I
feel as well. If you thought last season was nuts,
this season is just out of control wild, Like it
is bonkers. It really really is. It's bigger. It's just
(31:09):
for me. It's just completely insane. It's completely insane. And
I feel like with last year it was easy for
me to kind of track this. Yeah, I'm like what,
like hold on, wait what and like going through things
in the night, and the process for this year has gotten.
(31:32):
I'm looking at my my my board that I can't
show you, but the process for this year is just
it's wild, it really is. And I was saying to
somebody the other day, you know, really, the only character
that I've ever gone back and redone or kind of
rediscovered was in Twilight, you know, and it was a
(31:52):
very small role, and you know, I was playing a
moody vampire. It's like you're like, it's it's you know,
it's it's you're it's just there. It's on the table
and you're like, yeah, got it. Can absolutely go and
grab that, you know, whenever in whatever world, in whatever
sort of however long it's been since the last film,
whatever it may be, And with this one, you know,
it's just continually building. And I think that it's been
(32:17):
really interesting as well. To have the play on in London,
which I went to go and see, which you know,
goes back to Henry before we met him in season four,
and to have a lot of the questions or a
lot of the thoughts that i'd had about that character
kind of answered by watching the play and also discover
(32:39):
more was really interesting for me, really really interesting. And
so yeah, it's just kind of building and building and
building and building and building and continually growing. So yeah,
it's not I'm growing, it's growing. It looks amazing. We've
got some incredible people going on and just the level
(32:59):
of detail, the level of detail it was one thing
about this show I think, even from season four that
really got to me in a good way, and this
year is no exception to that. In fact, i'd say
this year is ultimately even more. There's even more level
of detail going in, which from an artist's standpoint, just
(33:20):
makes you go, oh awesome, Like you look around the
room and you're like, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, great, got it
all fantastic?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Thank you? Are you almost done filming or do you
have a lot more to go through this summer?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
We've got a bit more to go through. We've done
a lot of filming, but we do have a lot
more to go, and so we're going to be kind
of locked down for some time.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That means a lots of good stuff is coming. And
because you're not busy enough, you have another project coming
out at the end of June called Horizon.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
You are, I.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Guess, kind of sticking to the country theme, or at
least the Western theme. Tell me about this movie and
your role and what we can expect.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Where do I even begin with this? Thank you so much,
by the way for bringing it up. I got a call.
It was the summer the show came out, and I
got a call about the movie and I got sent
the script and I read it and I was just overjoyed,
(34:30):
Like it immediately immediately made me terrified. It immediately made
me excited, and I was just like, I've got to
go for this, like regardless, I've just got to go
for this. And I did the zoom thing. I did
the zoom audition, which is always strange because you know,
(34:51):
there's this we're not I'm not sat in the same
room as somebody. There's this level of the sort of
level of focus and interaction that you have to get
with somebody through that is just tenfold really, And then
it must have been a few weeks later, I get
a call being like, Okay, Kevin wants to have a
zoom with you. Kevin zoomed with me and told me
(35:13):
I'd gotten the gig, and.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Kevin Carstner, by the way, for everybody listening, sorry.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yes, Kevin, mister Carstner, and I just it just felt unreal.
It just felt so unreal. And cut to a few
months later, you know, I'm out in Utah in the
Lasal Mountain range, and I've got one more thing to
say on this before I before I talk about the
character and the film in general. On a personal level.
(35:41):
When season four finished, when we finished filming, we rented
a camper van, a decked out van from this great
company out in Denver, and we drove into the mountains
to a place called Crested but Beautiful, camped out there
for a few nights, and then we drove out into
Utah and we camped at this campground. And I'm not
going to say the name of the campground because I
(36:02):
want to keep it seer, but that campground ended up
being base camp for Horizon. So going back there, having
built and created these incredible memories of this landscape that
is just otherworldly. I mean it looks like Mars, Like
(36:28):
it just looks like Mars. This place, it's unbelievable. Was thrilling.
It was thrilling to go back there, and it felt
it felt like home again talking about this idea of home,
it just felt like home. And so I was so excited. So,
you know, filmed a bit down there, filmed a bit
up in the Lasal Mountain range and just had the
(36:51):
best time. And the film is amazing. I've been fortunate
enough to see it now. And you know, all those
old Western films. They're incredible. They're so beautiful. The storytelling
is amazing, but we're in a totally different technological era now,
(37:14):
so able to capture that landscape and these stories with
the way that things look on screen. I saw ten
minutes of the film whilst I was When I had finished,
I got invited up to mister Cossoner's base camp. He
was like staying up there half the time, which was amazing,
(37:34):
Like in the mountains. I was like, oh, dude, you're
doing it. I love this. I got invited up to
the trailer to watch it ten minutes, says Real. I
burst into tears. I just fully wept in this trailer,
and it just looks incredible. I'm born in nineteen eighty eight,
(37:54):
so on a personal level, in a selfish way, which
is okay. You know, Kevin Costner, the actor and the director,
is a huge part of my childhood, the massive part
of my childhood. So to be stood there opposite him,
having him both direct and act with me, I felt
(38:17):
like a kid in a candy store, like this is
all my wildest dreams come true in one moment, in
one moment. It's amazing. The story is amazing, He's amazing.
The character that I play is just the meanest, baddest motherfucker.
It's again, you know, I said, I spoke to my
(38:41):
dad and I said to some other people I knowed
some text messages after watching it and just being like
this is a bad dude, Like this is a bad,
bad man. And I had so much fun with it.
But again, you know, talk about impasses, they injury my god.
You know, I'm born in England, not a cowboy or
you know, we used to play that when we were kids,
(39:02):
but like, you know, it's not me to be up
in the mountain playing that. You're like, by god, I
hope nobody sees through my bullshit right now. I'm giving
this everything I've got, and I'm really grateful because you know,
on a again sort of on a personal level, and
you know, without without without tooting my own horn, so
(39:26):
happy that it that it translates. You know, the last
thing I would want with that, that would be for
that to not translate. When the project like this means
so much to me, means so much to Kevin, means
so much to all the other actors involved, and I
just wanted to give this everything that I had. Yeah,
I loved it, absolutely loved it so much fun.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
First of all, I would be hard pressed to find
a role that you can't do. It seems like everything
thrown your way you can kind of tackle and conquer.
And you know, I'd be shocked if there's an accent
or voice work you couldn't do. So I'm not surprised
that the Western, you know, Twain is authentic for your character,
and the world loves a Western. I mean, Yellowstone is
(40:06):
so popular and the resurgence of the genre is so
major right now. I know everybody's really excited. So it
comes out June twenty eighth. Go watch it in theaters.
Get the epic taste of the West on the big screen.
It's so fun. Jamie Man, I could talk to you
for like four more hours, but in the interest of
letting you have your day off, I'm going to wrap
up this conversation with the title that comes from a
(40:30):
question I ask all of my guests at the end
of each episode, and that question is, what is one
thing that you have never said before. I know you've
done tons of interviews, You're a private person. You put
out what you want, but is there anything that you
would want to share today. That's something you really haven't
mentioned before.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
There's so much, I mean, there is so much. And
as I've been kind of thinking about this, I've written
so many things down, so many things down. You know.
I started with the silly thing, you know, which is
which I'll brush over quickly, which is that, in my
personal opinion, pineapple does not belong on pizza.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But I agree more.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
But you know, on a more vulnerable and honest level,
I think it's taken me and we started off by
saying this, and I'll venture into some beautiful things within this.
You know, It's taken me a long time to understand
that life is varied, that it is sometimes tragic, that
(41:38):
it is sometimes painful, but it can also be very
very beautiful. And holding space for all of that is
is something that in my journey I ran from for
a long time. I ran from feeling sad or lost
(42:02):
or whatever the things may be. And now, with the
knowledge and the blessings that I've had from other people,
I feel comfortable enough to be able to hold space
(42:23):
for all of that. And I think that one of
the things that I've always been very passionate about handing
over and it fills me with fear. Is that for
anybody going through any level of personal difficulty, particularly surrounding
(42:45):
something like sobriety, there is a whole world waiting for you.
And I need people more than people need me, and
sometimes sometimes sometimes and it is it's a journey. And
(43:11):
and for all the hardships that you face, or for
all the hardships that I face on a daily basis,
we will do in our own personal way. There is
just so much beauty to be had. There really really is.
So you know, I didn't grow up. I didn't grow
up with a lot of sober role models. I didn't, Okay,
(43:34):
was I looking for what? Was I looking for others
that people that confirmation bias per SAE. It was I
looking at rock stars? Yeah, of course, of course I was.
And we do we glamorize that as a society. We
do it. We glamorize the idea of rock and roll. Cool.
Rock and roll is great, don't get me wrong, fantastic hedonism, wonderful,
(43:58):
go for it. But we should also be glamorizing the
other side of the coin as well. And that's something
that I really want to do. Is I really want
to just be out there being like Hey, look, I'm
not putting myself on a pedestal. Fuck no, I am
not a fucking god. I get shit wrong all the time.
I do not have all the answers, and that's why
(44:20):
I need other people as well. I need other people
to check me. I need to hear other people's stories.
And I hope that as we grow as a society,
we can encourage that conversation more because it's vital. It's vital.
So yeah, that's what I've got.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Man, When people like you open up and put out
those messages and you know, share something based on real
past experience, it means so much more to so many.
It's not coming from a place of nowhere. It's coming
from your life. And I think that glamorizing this part
(44:57):
of your life, where you are today is so important
and I think that's really cool. So thank you, Thank
you for sharing that today.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Welcome, You're welcome. Thank you for having me, thank you
for receiving it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Of course, of course, Jamie.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
So everybody, you can go stream home, you can watch
the new movie coming out Horizon June twenty eighth, you
can stay up to date on all things, stranger things.
I know there's like blogs and accounts online trying to
snap pictures and get more information as the season rolls out.
But don't be trying to snap spoilers, y'all. Like, let's
let the season come out in peace, but follow all.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Of Jamie's stuff. He's up to so many good things.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Jamie, like I said, I could have kept this conversation
going forever. I'm gonna let you go enjoy the rest
of your day off or I'm sure you're prepping for
tomorrow's scene work. But thank you for hanging out. I
truly truly enjoy talking to you.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
I appreciate it me too. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Didario.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Piglisi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(46:12):
tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Diderio.
Hey, guys, welcome to I've never said this before with me.
Tommy de Dario, the brilliant Jamie Campbell Bower is my
guest today and wow, he has got to be one
of the coolest dudes that I've gotten the chance to
chat with.
Speaker 2 (00:16):
And I mean that now.
Speaker 1 (00:17):
You most likely know Jamie from playing the highly talked
about villain Henry aka Vekna in Stranger Things, where he
delivers a performance that, man, it's gonna forever be talked
about because he is so scary and so damn good.
But aside from Stranger Things, he has a very long
list of credits to his name, from captivating audiences as
(00:39):
Anthony in Tim Burton's two thousand and seven Gothic musical
Extravaganza Sweeney Todd, the Demon Barber of Fleet Street, to
co starring in The Mortal Instruments City of Bones. Oh,
and then there's the fan favorite Fantastic Feasts and so
many more memorable TV and film performances. I will be
here for two days if I keep going on. But
(01:00):
his talent it also extends into the music world, where
most recently he released his single titled Home the lyrics
you need to listen carefully to them. They are so
powerful and so vibrant. You can see everything he is
singing come to life as you are listening. And he
also announced his hard rock project Blood Magic to critical
(01:23):
acclaim no surprise there with his single death Slash Rebirth.
Oh and because he's not busy enough, he has a
new movie called Her Eyes in dropping June twenty eighth,
So let's add that to the mix of everything he
has going on.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
This man he can do it all.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
And not only that, he's such an introspective, thought provoking,
grounded person.
Speaker 2 (01:44):
I really enjoy.
Speaker 1 (01:45):
Talking with him today about his artistry and his outlooks
on life and so much more. A guest like Jamie
is thrilling for me because he brings so much truth
to the discussion, and I think through sharing our truths
is when we can all really connect and feel less
alone in the world. So let's see if today we
can get Jamie to say something that he has never
(02:06):
said before. Jamie Campbell Bauer, how you doing, my friend?
Speaker 3 (02:16):
I'm good. Thank you so much for having me. How
are you?
Speaker 2 (02:18):
I am fantastic. I'm so happy you're here.
Speaker 1 (02:21):
I know you have a lot going on here in
the middle of filming the final season of Stranger Things.
I believe you were like on set six hours ago,
twelve hours ago, and here you are, so thank you
for being here.
Speaker 3 (02:31):
Oh you're so welcome. Yeah no, I was. I was.
I was doing things that I can't talk about, but
yeah I was. I was on set and it's all
very exciting.
Speaker 1 (02:39):
Is that weird for you to just like jump into
regular life like you are today, Like you were just
playing a villain, you know, six hours ago in this
monster and here you are just kicking it with me.
Speaker 2 (02:47):
Is that weird for you?
Speaker 3 (02:48):
Yes, I'll be honest with you, it can be. It
can be quite strange with that. It's always interesting when
you're in the middle of filming something you don't want
to be saying too much.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Yes, it's yes, yeah, yeah, I can imagine.
Speaker 1 (03:03):
I can imagine you're like, wait a minute, I am
me today, Okay, good to know.
Speaker 3 (03:07):
Yeah yeah yeah, finding me again, finding me again within
that space is always interesting. I think. I think I
suppose as an actor, there's always that part of you
that always wants to bring your own personal experience to
the work that you're doing, grounding it in truth. But
then there's also a part of me that always is
looking for the truth within the character as well. So
(03:29):
you know, blending those two worlds is always an interesting thing,
and I think subconsciously you're always picking up on things
as you go through the experience, you know, and as
you know, and as I've said, you know, I do
like to involve myself quite heavily in the work that
I do, so yesterday thankfully wasn't too much of a
heavy day. Otherwise we may not be here today, but
(03:49):
we are, unknowing.
Speaker 1 (03:52):
Well, It's very nice to see you and Jamie form
because I have a feeling you'll be scaring us plenty
in the new season, so I'm glad you're here, as.
Speaker 3 (03:59):
He fingers cross, fingers crossed.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
Well man, we have a lot to cover today, and
I want to start with Home, your brand new single.
Admittedly I didn't know a lot about your musical career.
I knew you as Jamie the actor, and I started
hearing some things last year and I'm like, oh my god,
this guy can fucking sing like it blew me away.
And the power of your writing is what, really, you know,
(04:26):
struck me the most. So when you released Home, you
put out that you were delighted, but you were also
terrified to release it.
Speaker 3 (04:33):
Why I think for me and the process that I
go through now with my music is you know, I'm
always trying to be honest, you know, with the presentation
of myself. And also I think as I've ventured further
(04:53):
into I mean, I'm even getting far talking about this now,
but as I ventured further into writing more country style music,
there is always that part of me that feels imposter syndrome.
I think I've always felt that I've always had a
little bit of imposter syndrome, both in music and in
acting too. I know it's the thing that I love
the most in the world, but there's always that part
(05:15):
of me that, you know, that looks at people who
have come before me and their greatness and gone, oh
my God, like I'll never be as good as you,
which is a very British thing. It's a sort of
self effacing in to that. But I do find that
with that fear, and if I'm feeling that fear, it's
generally a good thing. It's generally me It generally means
(05:38):
that what I'm doing is honest, and there's a vulnerability
to it, which I really.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Value well, and you're not letting that said imposter syndrome
paralyze you. You're still doing the work you want to do,
which I think is really cool because a lot of
people would say.
Speaker 2 (05:53):
Ooh, yeah, that one. I'm out, I'm not doing it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (05:56):
I think that's part of my nature. That has always
been part of my nature. There's that rebel inside of
me that whilst I feel the fear, and as I've
grown older and become more comfortable in my skin, being
able to understand my own fear and recognize that, you know,
(06:17):
fear is false evidence appearing real. That's a phrase that
I've learned, and to push through it and to go
no matter what. And we're in such an interesting time
with like releasing music or releasing art in any form,
you know that now I do tend to kind of
create and go, Okay, let's put this out next week.
Let's just go for it, you know, regardless, I'm an
(06:40):
independent artist. I don't have to answer to a record label,
and so I do have the freedom within that because
the more I sit on things, the more I think
about them, and the more the fear will build and
I'll go no, no, no, no, Like I'm running away.
This isn't happening. That courage for me has to be
has to be instant, and it has to be Yeah,
(07:02):
there's an instinctuality with it. I think that I now
go with. So, yeah, thank you. I appreciate that. It's
really sweet thing to say.
Speaker 2 (07:10):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:10):
Well, I think it's really cool that you push through
and you created the song. You're stepping into the genre
and home is such an interesting concept. I mean for me,
I could really relate to it because I've always had
a very difficult relationship with you know, home and where
my home is and where I belong and where I
don't belong in all of it from a young boy
to now. I think a lot of people can relate
to that idea. And the lyrics, like I said earlier,
(07:33):
are so powerful. So you tell me, as the artist,
what is the meaning behind the song for you?
Speaker 3 (07:38):
This song? I think for me, you know, I'm a transplant.
I live in America now, and I think as I've
grown older, I've understood my desire for a level of
security within my life. You know, I'm an artist. I create.
I've been living out of a bag basically since I
(07:59):
was about a eighteen You know, traveling around and to
have somewhere that I can go back to that is mine,
and yes, okay, it is there is There is certainly
a sort of a materialistic idea behind that, you know,
that to have something that belongs to me, that feels
safe to me, and in the same breath, that sense
(08:23):
of security and that sense of belonging and that sense
of feeling warm like you did when you were a kid,
maybe when one was much younger before before the world
came crashing in on them, is something that I can
also relate to. And I wrote it with my friend
(08:45):
Ryan Nissi, who is an amazing songwriter, and I've loved
his work for years and years and years. And you know,
I don't always I haven't always loved writing with other people.
I'll be honest with you. You know, I was I was
in a group. I was in a band where we
kind a major record deal for which you know, incredibly grateful,
and all of a sudden, there were lots of voices
(09:06):
in the room and you go into these writing sessions
with all these people, and all of a sudden, the
intention is, well, let's make a hit, you know, and
it's like, well, hold on, that's not what I want
to be doing. I want to be exploring the depths
of myself. So to venture out into a co writing
session again with somebody that I love was just just
(09:28):
a total blessing. And so Ryan and I were talking
about this idea of home and talking about whether it
pertains to a place, a person or yourself, you know,
and within that, I think the song tries to cover
as much of that as possible. Whilst it's describing. Ryan
(09:50):
likes to refer to his own music in the same
way that Nick ca reppos to his music is kind
of sad, bastard music, which I really appreciate, Like I'm
obsessed with that. But you know, it starts, it starts
with this idea of of being tied to an individual
when the seas are rough, when when the winds blow,
(10:13):
you know, can we support each other and can we
find ourselves that place of belonging And then at the end,
you know, the ship sinks, but they're still together. So
that sense of belonging was a togetherness which is always
interesting and it's it's a fascinating thing for me because
I never want to particularly in my you know, in
(10:34):
my sort of adulthood, you know, to be like codependent,
you know, I like, you know, like you're my everything.
But there is a sense of when you work hard
at something with somebody and you create a life, and
you create a space, and you create a warmth and
you create a home, there is just that sense of, yeah,
we're doing this, you know, and this is beautiful and
(10:57):
I can really, I can really relate to that. So yeah,
it's sort of it's tied in with a lot of things.
And that's one of the things I love about Ryan's
writing is I am very much quite a linear storyteller
in my writing, you know, I like a beginning and
an end and it sort of follows one part, whereas
with Ryan's writing, each line has so much in it.
(11:20):
And that was one of the things I loved working
on the song with him the most, you know, was
what can we pepper in the next line, you know,
and then how do we tie that to what's come
before to be able to tell a story. It's really
really cool. So yeah, that's kind of what we were
going for.
Speaker 1 (11:37):
I think the storytelling of it is what really struck me.
A lot of music today to me is I mean
not to like knock other genres or artists, but there's
no story, and it's like one bead or one word
twenty five times. And I like the story and I
really appreciate that with your writing, and as you said,
you stepped into this country arena which was new for you, right,
(11:59):
So is that something you want to continue exploring. Has
that been fun to dabble in?
Speaker 3 (12:04):
Yeah, It's something I've always wanted to explore. Somebody a
few months back reminded me of something that I'd written
around twenty thirteen around this time on social media, where
I just said all I want to be is a
country music.
Speaker 2 (12:19):
Stuff no way.
Speaker 3 (12:21):
Yeah, and it's true. You know when I started the
group that I was mentioning earlier, you know, whilst I
was writing that first record, I was also writing a
lot of country music and I never felt I never
felt like I was in a space to kind of
put that out And going back to what we were
saying about storytelling, I think for me, that's what country
(12:41):
music does so great folk music to gospel music, sad
bustard music like Nick Cave, you know, they tell these
really beautiful stories. One of the things that I think
for me as an artist going into that genre is
like I really appreciate so much of like what that means,
you know, Like I have an old truck from nineteen
(13:04):
seventy two that I do love to death. But am
I going to ride about my old truck. Probably not.
I'm going to try and explore things in a little
in a different way. So yeah, it's definitely something that
I'm going to continue to do and something that I
hold great reverence for. And I think that America in
(13:25):
general has such a beautiful history of music, you know,
coming from England and predominantly putting out music that is
rock and roll. You know, I come to America and
I get to go to places like Memphis and meet
artists that you know, have been doing this for so
long and soak up so much of that.
Speaker 2 (13:45):
You know.
Speaker 3 (13:45):
I was down there. It's down in Memphis, just pre Christmas,
hanging out with this guy called Matt who started a
studio called Southern Grooves, and he used to be an
engineer at Sun Studios. And we ended up going to
Royal Studios, which is where Al Green recorded, and we
(14:06):
walk into the studio and boom, Mitchell is in there,
and all of a sudden we hear this organ and
we walk into the room and there are these like
old guys in the room, and of course you always
pay respect to your elders anyway, but something about walking
into this space was like, all right, I need to
show a little bit more respect if this feels kind
of amazing. Of course they're playing music. I really understand
(14:29):
what a session is like. Anyway. Matt turns to me
and he's like, you know who those guys are, and
I was like, no, I honestly, I have no idea.
He's like, that's the high rhythm section. And they tracked
on Al Green's records back in the day. Then they're
still making music now. There's still some of the house
band for artists to come in. So that it was
just like a huge blessing and what a gift, you know.
(14:51):
So yeah, I try to soak up as much of
that as I can and just really immerse myself in
that world. And you know, going back to gospel, you know,
finding old gospel records, it's very difficult to find, you know,
recorded gospel music because so much of it was just
it just happened in a church and it's kind of
(15:12):
passed down through generations and you know, you can still
kind of hear it now and what people are doing,
but to find the old stuff is really really difficult,
and I managed to stumble across. There was a group
called the Staples Singers, who later on became more sort
of funk music, but they started as a as a
(15:32):
gospel group. And I found a recording of theirs called
the Freedom Highway, which was recorded in the sixties, and
it's all like live in a church, and you know,
it doesn't sound great, but by God, it's got a
lot of soul to it. And you can't replicate that,
you can't, but you can certainly soak that up, and
(15:54):
you can certainly be like, all right, how do I
put as much of my own vibe into this as
these people are putting into whatever it is that's coming
out of their mouths or out of their instruments. Now, So, yeah,
I'm obsessed with it. I hold, as I say, great
reverence for it and great respect for it too. And
I grew up. I grew up. I was born in
(16:16):
London and we left there when I was eight, and
so we moved to the countryside. And so you know,
I do understand the idea of kind of simplicity, which
I think is what a lot of people are looking
for nowadays. You know, we're seeing we're seeing a great
sort of turn towards kind of country music, which is fantastic,
you know, kind of Post doing his thing in that world,
(16:36):
which is just amazing to see and people sort of
paying more attention to it. But I think ultimately it
comes down to this idea of simplicity. It comes down
to this idea of I don't want to sound crazy,
but like, has the sort of capitalist system failed us here?
You know, are we looking for something that's more real?
Are we looking for our connection to nature? To grass?
(16:57):
You know, people say, go, oh, I didn't touch some grass. Yeah,
any more grass than when you're out in the countryside, right,
And I think that's kind of where we're seeing this
this go to and that's something that I can certainly
relate to. And I think that comes with age as well.
I think, you know, this idea of I don't know,
life was much simpler back when I was a kid,
(17:18):
and you know, I heard my parents say it. I
don't believe them, or but you know, now I'm older
and I'm like, well, maybe there was this level of
kind of protection in this little bubble in the English
country I had, which which is a beautiful thing. It's
a beautiful thing, and I hope everybody finds that for themselves.
I hope everybody finds themselves that that place of safety.
Speaker 1 (17:41):
I guess, well, I think we're all craving that nostalgia
and like you said, simpler times, and I like that
this song, you know, makes you kind of feel like
you want that and you crave that, and that it's
okay to to feel like you need that right whatever
that idea of home is to you. So it's really cool,
and I look forward to seeing more from you in
(18:02):
the genre because if this single is any little taste
of what's to come, I think some good shit is coming.
Speaker 2 (18:08):
Man. So that's exciting. That's very exciting.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
That's very sweet. Thank you so much. I'm just out
there doing my thing and hoping that if one person
connects to it, you know, that's.
Speaker 2 (18:18):
Enough for me. Jamie.
Speaker 1 (18:26):
When you're acting, you're obviously playing a character and you're
reciting someone else's words, and it's a very different mode
of art, I'll say, than writing your own music and
bearing your soul and being vulnerable in that sense is
it hard for you to open up as you did.
You have to get used to that or was that
always kind of easy and that's why you began songwriting?
Speaker 3 (18:46):
Oh wow, there's been a journey within that, for sure.
I think the first record that I made with the
band that I often talk about came out of getting
so know and coming to terms with myself and coming
to terms with unprocessed anger or fear, and that was
(19:11):
a very cathartic and freeing time. As that progressed, found
myself getting lost. You know, I found myself getting lost
in that and I've been open about that before in
other interviews where I just kind of felt like I'd
lost the DNA, like the projects had lost the DNA,
like I wasn't as connected to myself as I needed
(19:32):
to be. There were times within that project after the
first record, for sure, where I certainly felt that. You know,
we went and we moved into this house in the
middle of nowhere in England, and I always wanted to
do this thing that, you know, where the Rolling Stones
went and lived in frontce and made a record, and
I was like, I want to do that. So we
went and we lived in this place and there were
(19:54):
certainly times in that experience where I felt like, yeah,
I hit it again. But then there were where I
just didn't feel like that, and I felt like I'd
lost myself. So when that project ended and I was
able to write stuff that was coming from my heart
or take the stuff that had come from my heart
during that time and present it, they felt like there
(20:18):
was this newfound sense of freedom. You know, that really
really was this new found sense of freedom. And you know, look,
I am and I can be a very private person,
you know. I think it's just part of who I am.
And I've been in this industry for long enough now,
you know to kind of be sometimes be cautious. But
(20:42):
with my music, I'm sat alone and I'm sat in
my house and I'm not thinking about the listener. I'm
not thinking about it being a radio hit. You know.
I'm just trying to write from the heart, and I
have demos of songs that are not from that space.
(21:04):
But then I do get to that point sometimes where
I'm like, yeah, that's it, I've hit it, I've got it.
Then it's coming out and I you know, I was
working on a mix with a friend of mine recently,
and I think this idea of like a visceral reaction
when you're creating art is really important. Does it make
(21:25):
you jump around when you're making it? Does it make
you cry when you're making it? Well, if it's doing
something to you, then you're telling the truth.
Speaker 2 (21:35):
Right.
Speaker 3 (21:36):
The worst thing is when I step away from something
and I was like, I felt nothing, well, just completely
disassociated on my own life. So is it hard sometimes?
I think sometimes, like you know, digging around in grief
or digging around in pain can always be difficult to be.
(22:00):
It's uncomfortable. That's part of my journey is coming to
terms with those parts of myself knowing that there needs
to be space for all of it. You know, there
just has to be space for all of it.
Speaker 2 (22:13):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Well, I think that's the part of the beauty of
your artistry. It's you dig around, you write about and
sing about the things that truly matter to you so
that you do feel something, because the hope is you
want other people to feel something. And that's what I
felt listening to this song, you know, And like I said,
I gravitate towards people that have something real to say.
Speaker 2 (22:35):
That's why I started the show.
Speaker 1 (22:36):
I mean, I you know, also cover red carpets and
junkets where you get three minutes with somebody five minutes
if you're lucky and you can't have a real conversation,
you know, and to me, there's nothing better than being
able to really have those forms of connection. And for that,
I think it makes your music really compelling to listen to.
So Home is out now for everybody wondering how they
(22:57):
can listen, you can download it. It's fantastic to definitely
take a listen to it. Jamie, your instrument, It's one
of the most interesting voices that I have heard in
both your acting and your singing, and I think to
have that combination is not something you see often. You know,
even obviously playing vecna, what you do with your voice
(23:18):
and how you get there and just seemingly seem to
whip that on up. It's like wait, how And then
you hear you on your music and it's totally different.
Do you ever get like a sore or horse throat
when you're playing that role of ecna?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
Like, are you ever like guys, I need a minute?
Speaker 3 (23:34):
No. I found out through process of failure. I found
out kind of how I could do it, And a
lot of it is just about relaxing. It's just about
trying to be as relaxed as possible. Same thing with singing.
To the moment I tense up. The moment I start
to worry is the moment it all goes wrong and
(23:57):
everything just goes like that, and no air is getting through,
nothings vibrating how it needs to. So no, I don't
get horse and sm asked to an sm as to shout,
and I, yeah, I recently had that experience for like
I had to scream, and then I had to come
in and not scream. And I woke up in the
morning being like I've got PTSD from like being out
(24:19):
like touring a band where I'm like shouting every night
and you've got another show to play, like, oh my god,
I got and everything just starts to like close up.
So I had to really just like reground myself and
resenter myself. But but no, you know, I don't don't
I don't get horse too often. And I've said this before.
You know, there's there's an interesting thing I think that
(24:40):
happens with our voices in general, which is when we
are to to be relaxed, we do get this deeper
tmbre we get a deeper, a deeper resonance, and that's
why we're attracted to certain thingers. You know, Oh, we
get a different tombre, a different resonance, I should say,
because not all things, you know, go deeper. Some times
it's just air or something coming through. And yeah, you know,
(25:04):
I said, I remember. I remember day one of season
four playing Beckner Denise, who's who's our p R? You know,
She was like, wow, you know your voice is so different,
and I was like, oh, it's because I'm telling the truth.
And I was like in full Veckner and just like
looked at her saying this, and and I was like,
(25:25):
oh my god, like what, sorry, I'm so sorry. Sorry,
I don't forgive me. He took over. So yeah, yeah,
I don't. I don't get wars, but I do. It's
it's it's also an interesting indicator of when it's good
for me as well. Just the air falls dead silent
(25:47):
on set sometimes when I'm doing it and it just
feels it's otherworldly. It's otherworldly. That's that's the only way
I can describe it. It doesn't come from me, it
really really doesn't. And it's that's the same thing with music.
You know, when something is real, it's it's coming from
it's coming from a place of total unknowing.
Speaker 1 (26:05):
Yeah, yeah, I know it seems like that. And I
mean nobody, nobody taught you how to do that voice, right,
like you just kind of developed it, which is why
it seemingly came from nowhere.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
Correct.
Speaker 3 (26:16):
Yeah, I mean, you know, I've listened to a lot
of Tom Waits in my time, but yeah, it kind
of came from nowhere. I mean I started and I
did it. You know, I know, Matt and Ross are
very they have a lot of reference, and Freddy Krueger
is an iconic character, but Freddy's very There's a lot
of energy going on behind Freddie all the time. You know,
(26:37):
he's always on the chase and he's always moving quite quickly.
And then and I was sort of trying to emulate
this thing and I couldn't quite get it. And then
I was like, I need to go back to hell
raised So I need to go back to Doug Bradley.
And I went back in there and I was like, ah,
this is it, this is it for me. There is
a there is a level of just what's the WORSD
(27:00):
But it's considered choice. There's just considered choice within it.
And I really was like that for me, that's hitting
a place that feels real to me for sure. So yeah,
it just took time and the pandemic, you know, thankfully,
by the grace of God, you know, I was given
(27:21):
the blessing of a pandemic to work through whatever I
needed to work through to figure out how to do it.
Speaker 1 (27:26):
Do people just stop you all the time and say
can you give me the voice? Like, is that a
regular occurrence for you?
Speaker 3 (27:32):
Yes? Absolutely, absolutely, And it's funny. I'm always I'm so
protective of it. I'm so so protective of it. And
that's because for me, there's a I don't know, there's
a sort of sacred nature to it that I don't
want to that I don't want to monopolize or bastards,
(27:54):
you know, I really don't. I just I wanted it
to be in its place on the screen and then
it's done and that's it, and that's where it lives.
And Okay, do I sometimes send my partner voice notes
if I'm sat on the toilet, you know she's in
the other room. Yeah, of course I do. I mean,
i'd be lying if I said that I didn't do that,
but you know that's in the privacy of my own home,
(28:17):
and you know, bless her, you know, she has to
sit and deal with me whilst I'm kind of working
on projects like that, you know, so I am walking
around the house kind of growling. So yeah, they do,
they do ask me, they do ask me, and it's
always such a blessing and I think, you know, that's
the other thing about this show is like just to
be able to be a small part of creating something
(28:37):
that means so much to so many people. Again, it's
not something that you focus on much sho doing it,
but when you come out the other side of it,
it's quite intense and it's quite shocking. It's quite shocking.
You never there's still a level of separation for me
within that, there's still like this. I was listening to
(28:58):
your episode on with Gosh I can't remember his name,
a singer from Matchbox twenty, and he was saying, you
know how it finds it difficult to accept, thank you
very much. Can relate to that, again being English, but
you know, maybe I'm just using that as a sort
of defense mechanism, But there's this level of separation you
(29:18):
know that happens within that and I'm so grateful. But
it is weird. Sometimes it's odd. It can be really odd,
it can be really really odd. I'm just doing what
I do and hoping that actually what I'm doing is
serving the story or serving the idea that someone else
has had. Okay, yes, I'm bringing my own ideas to it,
(29:40):
but I didn't write this show. I'm not behind the camera.
I'm just trying to do the best thing that I
can do. And to see that land with people is yeah,
it's amazing, confusing, amazing, a blessing.
Speaker 1 (29:55):
Yeah, I'm sure, because you're just showing up and doing
your job and it will forever go down as one
of the most epic villain performances in the history of
television and film, and it's been time and time written about.
And you're like, well, I'm just showing up for work
and that's nice, but you're doing your job. But soak
it in. I mean, you know, I know it's all right,
as you said, you're British, but you know, enjoy the
(30:17):
feeling of what it means to so many people out there,
because it does, and to have people always asking you
to do the voice like clearly it resonates and you know,
sorry to disappoint you're not going on cameo anytime soon
and doing the voice for people's birthdays. But they all
love it, they all want it, and it means a
lot for fear of the Secret Service coming in here
(30:38):
any second and throwing me on the floor and tasing me.
I'm going to reluctantly and carefully ask is there anything
you can tease for this final season?
Speaker 3 (30:47):
I think I can go with the party line, which
is you know and actually kind of also how I
feel as well. If you thought last season was nuts,
this season is just out of control wild, Like it
is bonkers. It really really is. It's bigger. It's just
(31:09):
for me. It's just completely insane. It's completely insane. And
I feel like with last year it was easy for
me to kind of track this. Yeah, I'm like what,
like hold on, wait what and like going through things
in the night, and the process for this year has gotten.
(31:32):
I'm looking at my my my board that I can't
show you, but the process for this year is just
it's wild, it really is. And I was saying to
somebody the other day, you know, really, the only character
that I've ever gone back and redone or kind of
rediscovered was in Twilight, you know, and it was a
(31:52):
very small role, and you know, I was playing a
moody vampire. It's like you're like, it's it's you know,
it's it's you're it's just there. It's on the table
and you're like, yeah, got it. Can absolutely go and
grab that, you know, whenever in whatever world, in whatever
sort of however long it's been since the last film,
whatever it may be, And with this one, you know,
it's just continually building. And I think that it's been
(32:17):
really interesting as well. To have the play on in London,
which I went to go and see, which you know,
goes back to Henry before we met him in season four,
and to have a lot of the questions or a
lot of the thoughts that i'd had about that character
kind of answered by watching the play and also discover
(32:39):
more was really interesting for me, really really interesting. And
so yeah, it's just kind of building and building and
building and building and building and continually growing. So yeah,
it's not I'm growing, it's growing. It looks amazing. We've
got some incredible people going on and just the level
(32:59):
of detail, the level of detail it was one thing
about this show I think, even from season four that
really got to me in a good way, and this
year is no exception to that. In fact, i'd say
this year is ultimately even more. There's even more level
of detail going in, which from an artist's standpoint, just
(33:20):
makes you go, oh awesome, Like you look around the
room and you're like, brilliant, brilliant, brilliant, great, got it
all fantastic?
Speaker 2 (33:29):
Thank you? Are you almost done filming or do you
have a lot more to go through this summer?
Speaker 3 (33:40):
We've got a bit more to go through. We've done
a lot of filming, but we do have a lot
more to go, and so we're going to be kind
of locked down for some time.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
That means a lots of good stuff is coming. And
because you're not busy enough, you have another project coming
out at the end of June called Horizon.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
You are, I.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
Guess, kind of sticking to the country theme, or at
least the Western theme. Tell me about this movie and
your role and what we can expect.
Speaker 3 (34:08):
Where do I even begin with this? Thank you so much,
by the way for bringing it up. I got a call.
It was the summer the show came out, and I
got a call about the movie and I got sent
the script and I read it and I was just overjoyed,
(34:30):
Like it immediately immediately made me terrified. It immediately made
me excited, and I was just like, I've got to
go for this, like regardless, I've just got to go
for this. And I did the zoom thing. I did
the zoom audition, which is always strange because you know,
(34:51):
there's this we're not I'm not sat in the same
room as somebody. There's this level of the sort of
level of focus and interaction that you have to get
with somebody through that is just tenfold really, And then
it must have been a few weeks later, I get
a call being like, Okay, Kevin wants to have a
zoom with you. Kevin zoomed with me and told me
(35:13):
I'd gotten the gig, and.
Speaker 2 (35:15):
Kevin Carstner, by the way, for everybody listening, sorry.
Speaker 3 (35:18):
Yes, Kevin, mister Carstner, and I just it just felt unreal.
It just felt so unreal. And cut to a few
months later, you know, I'm out in Utah in the
Lasal Mountain range, and I've got one more thing to
say on this before I before I talk about the
character and the film in general. On a personal level.
(35:41):
When season four finished, when we finished filming, we rented
a camper van, a decked out van from this great
company out in Denver, and we drove into the mountains
to a place called Crested but Beautiful, camped out there
for a few nights, and then we drove out into
Utah and we camped at this campground. And I'm not
going to say the name of the campground because I
(36:02):
want to keep it seer, but that campground ended up
being base camp for Horizon. So going back there, having
built and created these incredible memories of this landscape that
is just otherworldly. I mean it looks like Mars, Like
(36:28):
it just looks like Mars. This place, it's unbelievable. Was thrilling.
It was thrilling to go back there, and it felt
it felt like home again talking about this idea of home,
it just felt like home. And so I was so excited. So,
you know, filmed a bit down there, filmed a bit
up in the Lasal Mountain range and just had the
(36:51):
best time. And the film is amazing. I've been fortunate
enough to see it now. And you know, all those
old Western films. They're incredible. They're so beautiful. The storytelling
is amazing, but we're in a totally different technological era now,
(37:14):
so able to capture that landscape and these stories with
the way that things look on screen. I saw ten
minutes of the film whilst I was When I had finished,
I got invited up to mister Cossoner's base camp. He
was like staying up there half the time, which was amazing,
(37:34):
Like in the mountains. I was like, oh, dude, you're
doing it. I love this. I got invited up to
the trailer to watch it ten minutes, says Real. I
burst into tears. I just fully wept in this trailer,
and it just looks incredible. I'm born in nineteen eighty eight,
(37:54):
so on a personal level, in a selfish way, which
is okay. You know, Kevin Costner, the actor and the director,
is a huge part of my childhood, the massive part
of my childhood. So to be stood there opposite him,
having him both direct and act with me, I felt
(38:17):
like a kid in a candy store, like this is
all my wildest dreams come true in one moment, in
one moment. It's amazing. The story is amazing, He's amazing.
The character that I play is just the meanest, baddest motherfucker.
It's again, you know, I said, I spoke to my
(38:41):
dad and I said to some other people I knowed
some text messages after watching it and just being like
this is a bad dude, Like this is a bad,
bad man. And I had so much fun with it.
But again, you know, talk about impasses, they injury my god.
You know, I'm born in England, not a cowboy or
you know, we used to play that when we were kids,
(39:02):
but like, you know, it's not me to be up
in the mountain playing that. You're like, by god, I
hope nobody sees through my bullshit right now. I'm giving
this everything I've got, and I'm really grateful because you know,
on a again sort of on a personal level, and
you know, without without without tooting my own horn, so
(39:26):
happy that it that it translates. You know, the last
thing I would want with that, that would be for
that to not translate. When the project like this means
so much to me, means so much to Kevin, means
so much to all the other actors involved, and I
just wanted to give this everything that I had. Yeah,
I loved it, absolutely loved it so much fun.
Speaker 1 (39:45):
First of all, I would be hard pressed to find
a role that you can't do. It seems like everything
thrown your way you can kind of tackle and conquer.
And you know, I'd be shocked if there's an accent
or voice work you couldn't do. So I'm not surprised
that the Western, you know, Twain is authentic for your character,
and the world loves a Western. I mean, Yellowstone is
(40:06):
so popular and the resurgence of the genre is so
major right now. I know everybody's really excited. So it
comes out June twenty eighth. Go watch it in theaters.
Get the epic taste of the West on the big screen.
It's so fun. Jamie Man, I could talk to you
for like four more hours, but in the interest of
letting you have your day off, I'm going to wrap
up this conversation with the title that comes from a
(40:30):
question I ask all of my guests at the end
of each episode, and that question is, what is one
thing that you have never said before. I know you've
done tons of interviews, You're a private person. You put
out what you want, but is there anything that you
would want to share today. That's something you really haven't
mentioned before.
Speaker 3 (40:49):
There's so much, I mean, there is so much. And
as I've been kind of thinking about this, I've written
so many things down, so many things down. You know.
I started with the silly thing, you know, which is
which I'll brush over quickly, which is that, in my
personal opinion, pineapple does not belong on pizza.
Speaker 2 (41:11):
But I agree more.
Speaker 3 (41:14):
But you know, on a more vulnerable and honest level,
I think it's taken me and we started off by
saying this, and I'll venture into some beautiful things within this.
You know, It's taken me a long time to understand
that life is varied, that it is sometimes tragic, that
(41:38):
it is sometimes painful, but it can also be very
very beautiful. And holding space for all of that is
is something that in my journey I ran from for
a long time. I ran from feeling sad or lost
(42:02):
or whatever the things may be. And now, with the
knowledge and the blessings that I've had from other people,
I feel comfortable enough to be able to hold space
(42:23):
for all of that. And I think that one of
the things that I've always been very passionate about handing
over and it fills me with fear. Is that for
anybody going through any level of personal difficulty, particularly surrounding
(42:45):
something like sobriety, there is a whole world waiting for you.
And I need people more than people need me, and
sometimes sometimes sometimes and it is it's a journey. And
(43:11):
and for all the hardships that you face, or for
all the hardships that I face on a daily basis,
we will do in our own personal way. There is
just so much beauty to be had. There really really is.
So you know, I didn't grow up. I didn't grow
up with a lot of sober role models. I didn't, Okay,
(43:34):
was I looking for what? Was I looking for others
that people that confirmation bias per SAE. It was I
looking at rock stars? Yeah, of course, of course I was.
And we do we glamorize that as a society. We
do it. We glamorize the idea of rock and roll. Cool.
Rock and roll is great, don't get me wrong, fantastic hedonism, wonderful,
(43:58):
go for it. But we should also be glamorizing the
other side of the coin as well. And that's something
that I really want to do. Is I really want
to just be out there being like Hey, look, I'm
not putting myself on a pedestal. Fuck no, I am
not a fucking god. I get shit wrong all the time.
I do not have all the answers, and that's why
(44:20):
I need other people as well. I need other people
to check me. I need to hear other people's stories.
And I hope that as we grow as a society,
we can encourage that conversation more because it's vital. It's vital.
So yeah, that's what I've got.
Speaker 2 (44:36):
Thank you for sharing that.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
Man, When people like you open up and put out
those messages and you know, share something based on real
past experience, it means so much more to so many.
It's not coming from a place of nowhere. It's coming
from your life. And I think that glamorizing this part
(44:57):
of your life, where you are today is so important
and I think that's really cool. So thank you, Thank
you for sharing that today.
Speaker 3 (45:04):
Welcome, You're welcome. Thank you for having me, thank you
for receiving it. I appreciate it.
Speaker 2 (45:08):
Of course, of course, Jamie.
Speaker 1 (45:10):
So everybody, you can go stream home, you can watch
the new movie coming out Horizon June twenty eighth, you
can stay up to date on all things, stranger things.
I know there's like blogs and accounts online trying to
snap pictures and get more information as the season rolls out.
But don't be trying to snap spoilers, y'all. Like, let's
let the season come out in peace, but follow all.
Speaker 2 (45:31):
Of Jamie's stuff. He's up to so many good things.
Speaker 1 (45:33):
Jamie, like I said, I could have kept this conversation
going forever. I'm gonna let you go enjoy the rest
of your day off or I'm sure you're prepping for
tomorrow's scene work. But thank you for hanging out. I
truly truly enjoy talking to you.
Speaker 3 (45:45):
I appreciate it me too. Thank you.
Speaker 1 (45:49):
I've Never Said This Before is hosted by Me Tommy Didario.
This podcast is executive produced by Andrew Piglisi at iHeartRadio
and by Me Tommy, with editing by Joshua Colaudney. I've
Never Said This Before is part of the Elvis Duran
podcast Network on iHeart Podcasts. For more, rate review and
subscribe to our show and if you liked this episode,
(46:12):
tell your friends. Until next time. I'm Tommy Diderio.
Host
Tommy DiDario
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