Scott Aukerman

Meet Scott Aukerman, the founder of podcast. He began his comedy career as a writer and performer on HBO’s Mr. Show with Bob and David. In 2009, he debuted a comedy radio show featuring real-life guests and improvised characters, which is now called Comedy Bang Bang: The Podcast! In 2010, he co-founded the Earwolf Podcast Network. In 2012, he started a television series based upon his podcast, Comedy Bang! Bang!, which completed five seasons on IFC. Scott co-created and directs the Funny or Die series Between Two Ferns with Zach Galifianakis, for which he has won two Emmy Awards. Scott’s other credits include executive producer of the reality spoof series Bajillion Dollar Propertie$, and the sitcom Take My Wife, both now streaming on Seeso. He also executive produced and co-directed Michael Bolton’s Big, Sexy Valentine’s Day Special streaming now on Netflix. Do not miss this episode, enJOY! 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
When I do live gigs around the country, I'll be
honest with you. I sell T shirts and swag to
the folks who are there, and then people always say,
can we get this wag without sitting through a whole
evening of you. Well, it's happened. It's finally here. You
can buy Craig Ferguson merch on the Craig Ferguson Merch
website and you can buy it for yourself or someone

(00:20):
you hate or someone you love. For more information and
link to the web store, please go to the Craig
Fergusonshow dot com. That's all lowercase, the Craig Ferguson show
dot com. My name is Craig Ferguson. The name of
this podcast is joy. I talk to interesting people about
what brings them happiness. Today. My guest is Scott Akerman,

(00:46):
who founded podcasts when he started comedy Bang Bang. He
is the funniest cleverest you know what he's really really
I'm a bit jealous, and the fact that I can
get along with them shows that I'm making progress. I've

(01:09):
just decided that I'm going to get plastic surgery. Oh yeah,
I'm going to start with my tests.

Speaker 2 (01:14):
Oh good, because I feel like if it gets botched,
it's testicles. People say, oh, you know, your testicles look weird.
First of all, not that many people see them anymore.

Speaker 3 (01:24):
Exactly, they're ugly anyway, right.

Speaker 1 (01:26):
They're ugly anyway. And also they're weird looking. So if
people say, you know, your testicles are weird looking, I go, yeah,
they're technicals. Yeah they're They're still weird looking. They're the
undersea creature of my pants. Now listen, I'm quite honorous
in a way that you're here because you honored to
be here.

Speaker 3 (01:44):
Well, thank you for saying we have a dual honor
system going on.

Speaker 1 (01:48):
All right, Well, I'm not going to the gate you
saying that, although I feel like there may be a
centiment fire. I feel like you may be the architect
of what we're doing here. You are the You are
the im mover, You are the.

Speaker 3 (02:03):
God like the Optimist Prime.

Speaker 1 (02:05):
Yeah, I think so. You are. Of the comedy chat podcast.
You made it happen. You're the veil of underground Man,
You're the ramones you.

Speaker 3 (02:13):
Yeah, am I disagreeing with you.

Speaker 1 (02:16):
I don't think you should. I don't think you should.
It was a conscious kind of artistic choice. I just
thought we'll just go with us and see where I ams.

Speaker 3 (02:24):
I mean, I think I wanted to do a radio
show because I just grew up very obsessed with the radio, right,
So like DJ's, I used to like tape my own
voice doing when I was like thirteen, doing just top
forty DJs, and I would tape the songs off the
radio and edit them in.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
You know, that's great.

Speaker 3 (02:46):
What that is very nerdy a little bit.

Speaker 1 (02:49):
I mean, I'm a little concerned for you, and we're
going to get into that. But now we're beginning to
see why you have comedy jobs though, because clearly, you know,
the start was strange and uncomfortable, and my personal feeling
is that you can't be funny at all unless the
first fifteen twenty years are deeply uncomfortable in some way.

Speaker 3 (03:10):
Oh yeah, I started comedy in ninety five. Where are
we now, twenty twenty five? Almost?

Speaker 1 (03:15):
Yeah. I came in America in nineteen ninety five. I
was already thirty. What were you doing before then? Drinking?
Pretty much?

Speaker 3 (03:23):
Yeah? Yeah, and you stopped when you're in America.

Speaker 1 (03:26):
I stopped before I came to America. Oh really, Yeah,
I stopped when I was twenty nine. Really, yeah, it happened, well,
a bunch of stuff. I'm not quite clear on the
statute of limitations. Well, no, I murder is the only
one that still is going. No, I was. I drank.
I was. You know, it was sad. It was a
sad alcoholic. You've been in your business for a while.

(03:48):
Do you understand what sad alcoholism is?

Speaker 3 (03:49):
Sure, I've seen a few of those.

Speaker 1 (03:51):
Yeah, And some people can make it work and some
people can't. I couldn't. I've always found that really interesting.
The people who quit when they're you know, like eighteen,
in their twenties. Yeah, I'm suppressive. But if you quit
that young, I feel like, I mean, good luck. I
should have quit that young. But I'm glad I quit
when I did because it was long enough to do

(04:13):
some damage, but not long enough to fuck up. You
call me fucking monologue, that's right. Got me talking about
me the table sooner, Man, I don't want to talk
about myself. Yeah, well you're going to. So did you
ever like fall into the alcoholism trap or just a man?

Speaker 3 (04:31):
I've never done well, okay, that's not right, but I've
never really done any drugs. So I did a podcast
once right where I went to a Fish concert with
my friend Harris Whittles, who's no longer with us, right,
big fish fan. It was the premise of the podcast
was him trying to get me to like Fish, the

(04:53):
band Fish. Right.

Speaker 1 (04:55):
That would be a hard one for me, because yeah,
I do not like Fish.

Speaker 3 (04:57):
So I never did. I we did, you know, eight
up as, so I never you never go around to it,
never never got around to it. But we went to
Madison Square Garden to see Fish, and I promised that
I would do the whole thing. I would do drug
I'd never done any drugs. I would do drugs. I
would really do it the way a real Fish fan would.

Speaker 1 (05:15):
What age are you when you do this? God help.

Speaker 3 (05:19):
My forties? So that's that's late to start. Yeah, So
I did as much like anything anyone gave me, I
would do right. And I never really got high.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
So like you didn't know what I mean? Do you
know how dangerous that is? Like if you do that now,
you'd be dead.

Speaker 3 (05:37):
The most that happened was at one point I went
those lights are pretty. You can hear me on the tape,
and I was like, Okay, I might have been high.
Right there.

Speaker 1 (05:44):
Yeah, that's that's a bit of a tail. These lights
are pretty, they're pretty, these lives pretty. You got a
purty mouth. It's one of those tail phrases. Yeah, but
I I I don't care for fish. What kind of
music you went through that? If you know, I imagine,
let me let me get I bet you and I
are into a lot of the same. Well, first of all,

(06:05):
I think this is for me. This is my fantasy
about you? Is that? But oh yeah, and I have
many is the that you like Schubert? You know is Schubert.

Speaker 3 (06:17):
He's a little ostentatious for my tasty that's even beare
that you said that?

Speaker 1 (06:21):
So what do you do?

Speaker 3 (06:22):
Like?

Speaker 1 (06:23):
No, if you're mixing songs together in nineteen ninety five,
it's what ninety I feel like.

Speaker 3 (06:28):
The nineties was a terrible time for music.

Speaker 1 (06:30):
It was.

Speaker 3 (06:30):
Yeah, I really love like nineteen seventy seven to nineteen
eighty three, like post punk electronics, you know, like, yes,
that's my main style of music that I really love.

Speaker 1 (06:46):
But that's what comes up in the little music thing
on your phone that you keep that right.

Speaker 3 (06:51):
Yeah, But that's the stuff that I love the most.
Everything else kind of branches out from that. Like nowadays,
for the past few months, I've been trying to like
buy every song that's on the R and B charts
from nineteen eighty to through two thousands.

Speaker 1 (07:08):
Oh you left me behind there. I wouldn't even know
where to begin with that.

Speaker 3 (07:13):
I have like a Billboard subscription, so I just look
at the charts like for every week and just try
to buy every song that's on there. It was like collecting, Yeah,
music collectors, right, do you collect vinyl?

Speaker 1 (07:24):
Do you have vinyl?

Speaker 3 (07:25):
Not really, I never got I mean I started collecting
music in vinyl in the eighties in the actual time. Yeah,
But now I just you know, I have one record player.
It's in the living room. I have to go in
there specially just to listen to like, you know, all
the old problems of vinyl of like.

Speaker 1 (07:39):
Yeah, you have to sit down and listen to us,
sit down, and I know, but musicians love that. They're like,
oh yeah, no, you have to sit down and listen
to the music and going nah, I'll be running or
playing pick a ball. Yeh do you play pick a ball?

Speaker 3 (07:51):
So I broke my foot two years ago playing pick
a ball for the first time. My wife was like
you got to play pick a ball?

Speaker 1 (07:57):
Yeah, you have to. I never have that, you've done it.

Speaker 3 (07:59):
So I did it. And I broke my foot first time,
first time. And I've had a like fucked up foot
for now two years and I just had surgery on
it two weeks ago.

Speaker 1 (08:09):
Oh and yeah, so was it you to sleep surgery? Yeah? Oh,
let's talk about the drugs. So what did they give you?

Speaker 3 (08:17):
So they gave me the propofol. And I've had this
weird thing where every doctor who says they're going to
give me propofol has the exact same thing that they
say about it, which is they say, it's what Michael Jackson.

Speaker 1 (08:29):
Jackson, that's what you want to say. Yeah, you'll love it.
I have a couple of times. The first thing I
go to I was like he was shut out. Oh yeah,
Moon woke out of the place. It was a maze,
But it is I can see how a person get
who'd in a drug like that. I guess.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
I mean, I don't really remember. I did wake up
the first because I had a colonoscopy with propofol as well.
Oh yeah, and they when I woke up, I felt
I did. I was like, I don't feel different, And
then I sent a really weird text to my friend
Adam Scott that I thought was normal, and then three
hours later I was like, fuck did I just said, Wow?

Speaker 1 (09:05):
See that's you're not good at monitoring when you're high.
It's probably best if you stay away from drugs because
if you like, these lights are pretty yeah, I know
knowing you're high. I know that you're you're high.

Speaker 3 (09:15):
What's the best drug?

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Though?

Speaker 3 (09:17):
My friend was trying to to it because I was like,
what's the best drug to take? And he was like,
maybe liquid heroin that you just like swallow.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Yeah, I'd say some kind of uh oaxy conton. That's
why people die of all the time, because the feeling
is so euphoric and lovely, very dangerous.

Speaker 3 (09:37):
Yeah, I don't do drugs now. I got for the foot,
I got like a full bottle of hair cassette. It's
either oxy or I don't know exactly what it was,
so I'm just afraid to take it.

Speaker 1 (09:47):
Yeah, they're tricky. I mean, like, I know a lot
of alcoholics would be sober for a long time that
screw themselves up on that stuff. I mean, and uh
and I'm I mean I didn't but I'm very wary
of it because I reached the Gorvidal called the cedar
side I years where I kind of like, you know,

(10:08):
I'm the doctor a little more than I used to be.

Speaker 3 (10:11):
Are you monitoring constantly, like where the doctor is, wherever
you're at, because I know you travel a lot.

Speaker 1 (10:16):
Well, I don't do that so much, but I'm constantly monitoring,
Like you're younger.

Speaker 3 (10:20):
You have like ten years younger than wait, something like that. Yeah,
fifty three, okay, so.

Speaker 1 (10:24):
I'm sixty two on a Friday, so yeah, nineties, right,
and I think probably I was in my early fifties
when I started to develop reasonably intense hypochondria. But it's
not really hypochondria, you know, if you're just monitoring things.
I guess.

Speaker 3 (10:38):
Yeah, I'm at that age now where I'm sort of
like constantly anytime anyone, like a celebrity dies, yeah, yeah,
I'm kind of like looking at their age, going like
I'm really close to there, I know, And like any
I've noticed anyone under fifty people are like, this is
a tragedy so young. Anyone over fifty they're like that's

(10:59):
about right.

Speaker 1 (10:59):
Yeah, Like if I died, know, like right now, people
were like well, yeah's I mean, I can see now
it's sixty you know, he was, you know, and so
they feel because you look for ways to feel comfortable.
You know. When when I think that's why people get look,
I'm just guessing, but I'm thinking that's why people get
into religion so much.

Speaker 3 (11:18):
I know, I know a lot of people are really
super into religion. Like the closer they are to death,
closer you get, you're like, well, you know, you need
like some sort of meaning for it.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
I can't do. I've tried, my heart, it's so hard to.

Speaker 3 (11:31):
How did you then stop? Did you have to come
up with a higher power?

Speaker 1 (11:35):
Did you do the proper game? Absolutely? And I I
do have a have a kind of God centric belief system,
I think, but it doesn't involve life after death. Oh really?

Speaker 3 (11:47):
Now, so do you think that it's just like we
shut off in that.

Speaker 1 (11:50):
I feel like it might be like propofol do you
know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (11:54):
You just like, except you never wake actually wake up.

Speaker 1 (11:56):
Well, they used to be on pagan tombstones for Christianity
in the Resurrection and all that. The the they used
to put on tombstones. I was not, I was, I
am not. I care not that was the r I P.
I was not a little worthy for well, I think
probably in Greek it's probably a lot. It's like Craco

(12:20):
creeky croco or something is.

Speaker 3 (12:23):
Just like three letters.

Speaker 1 (12:24):
Get it.

Speaker 3 (12:24):
Don't have to pay a lot.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
But my wife is a Yankee, right, so she's from
like from the Northeast.

Speaker 3 (12:30):
She was, you're married to Derek Jeters.

Speaker 1 (12:34):
My wife is Derek Jeter, which, like you can't make
fun of that.

Speaker 3 (12:40):
I mean it's for you, right, But I'm just surprised
I could come up with a Yankee name. If it
is one, I'm like, I took a stab. Yeah, hope
for the best.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
No, my wife is like, we're in Scotland and we
went to my parents' graves, right, so we're in this
graveyard and it's a graveyard and school Now graveyards in
Maine or in New Hampshire or for a month, it's
like the person's name, a date, a hyphen a date, right,
But in Scotland, particularly in recent dates, it's the person's
name and says Margaret beloved husband of Sandy guinea pegg owner.

(13:15):
And always like to take it like there's a whole
bioll bio and I'm like maybe sometimes a video, a
video on the actual tombstone, on the tombstone of like hello,
it's me, I'm dead, you know. I mean I don't
think it's that, but it's.

Speaker 3 (13:29):
You know, I mean, how long how long before that's obsolete?
I know, you know what I mean. I mean I
feel like within ten years the videos will stop working
on these tombstones.

Speaker 1 (13:38):
Well, and also I mean it shows a profound lack
of misunderstanding about time, right, like you know, as people say,
oh no, you're like the Catholic Church had a problem
with cremation for a long time. In what way. Well,
they said, you can't cremate the body because it has
to be able to come back for the day of resurrection.
You're going to need your body back.

Speaker 3 (13:56):
Really, yeah, so when Christ would come down with the rapture.

Speaker 1 (14:01):
Well you know it comes back with the yeah, all
the things.

Speaker 3 (14:04):
The trumpets and all that stuff. Right, so then your
body and no matter what state it's in, you get
a decompositioning ding ding doing diding do yeah, yes.

Speaker 1 (14:14):
Speaking of it, And that I think was a problem there,
and it took them a long time. They had to
have a big meeting about it and say.

Speaker 3 (14:20):
One big meeting.

Speaker 1 (14:22):
Okay, what about doing everybody step into the pop's office.
We're having a big meeting about the afterlife because Chico
Marx was there, obviously. The Craig Ferguson Fancy Rascals Stand
Up Tour continues throughout the United States in twenty twenty four.

(14:42):
For a full list of dates and tickets, go to
the Craig Ferguson show dot com slash tour see you
out there. Let's talk about comedy influences on you. Was
it the Marx Brothers. I feel you're in an absurd
list in a way.

Speaker 3 (15:00):
It was not the Marx Brothers.

Speaker 1 (15:01):
For me.

Speaker 3 (15:02):
It was when I was growing up. It was like
Bob Hope really yeah, I'm surprised by Bob Hope was
really big for me. The Road Movies, I love them. Yeah,
so great. They got very meta and surreal in a
lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (15:19):
They did.

Speaker 3 (15:20):
Yeah, Steve Martin huge. Like I was trying to explain
to someone who never really had ever seen Steve Martin
stand up or The Jerk or any of his early movies,
just like, how insane it was that someone was doing
anti comedy. Yeah, you know, in the early seventies.

Speaker 1 (15:38):
He was he was. It was very unusual, he to me,
because run of it at the same time the pythons
were working in the in the UK, and that that
was he seemed to be like an American relative of
the Goons and the pythons, right, and that that weird
kind of almost born of the surrealist movement. Comedy that
that that it went, Yeah, anti comedy, I guess is

(16:00):
what it is.

Speaker 3 (16:01):
But yeah, were the pythons for you?

Speaker 1 (16:03):
Is that? Yes? Very very definitely. Yeah. I Uh. One
of the crining achievements in my life, quite literally actually,
is that Eric Idle made me a crown. Really, yeah,
he made me a crown with a little bit would
he do that? Eric marches to the beat of his
own drum, and he was coming on the show and
he said, I've made you a crown and I was like, oh, okay,

(16:26):
And there's a crown and it's got a little Roulette
wheel on it and interesting, I still have it in
my hands, so nice that I walk around wearing it,
so I don't wear it actually doesn't.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
How many of the pythons have you interacted with?

Speaker 1 (16:39):
I've met Michael Palin and Eric I know quite well,
and I think i've met. No, I never met Please,
I talked to him in the phone once. How about you?

Speaker 3 (16:48):
You you told zero? Yeah, never met any of them.

Speaker 1 (16:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (16:50):
They were big for me too when I was like thirteen.
I was dating someone when I was thirteen who was like,
you've never seen a monty python thing, You're right, and
showed me and so that was like, imagine a huge thing.

Speaker 1 (17:03):
Yeah, I can imagine for you. It feels like that
informs like between two ferns and all that kind of
stuff feels like it. Yeah, it's not the same, but
it has like.

Speaker 3 (17:12):
There's now that drops during the between two ferns.

Speaker 1 (17:15):
The giant food that comes down on Zach and all
that's all that stuff, but but it's other than that.
It's not it's not the same at all. The naked
guy playing the piano.

Speaker 3 (17:24):
They oh, obviously the Spanish Inquisition, no one expected that. Yeah,
all of that stuff is in there.

Speaker 1 (17:29):
But I feel like that stuff it didn't feel forced
to me. It was felt fairy, kind of strange. But
if I go back and look at old pythons now,
mean I do from time to time. I'm kind of
shocked at how how there's quite a long time for
me between inspiration and then other inspiration, I'm like, well,
I don't remember this.

Speaker 3 (17:49):
It's yeah, it's interesting to watch anything that you grew
up with. Yeah, where you're kind of like, oh wow,
some of it was writing on just like brilliance. Yeah,
in between boring a little bit, I mean, you know,
but sometimes.

Speaker 1 (18:02):
But I think I think that's the there was a
time though, I mean, Joint Cleaves is always banging on
of It's like there's too many executives and gatekeepers for
comedy now, and it makes it much more difficult experiment
and stuff. I think in the in the in the
areas that he's talking about.

Speaker 3 (18:18):
Yes, I think it probably if you're only interested in
TV or movies.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
Yeah, yeah, I think it's terrible. Yeah, you can't really
do it anymore. But didn't you know you did the
the the Al Yankubic movie though, don't you.

Speaker 3 (18:30):
No, no, no, no, I was in it, but right,
you were in it.

Speaker 1 (18:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (18:35):
Yeah. Al was the band leader of my TV show
for a year for a season.

Speaker 1 (18:40):
Right. See. I think Al is related to all that. Well.

Speaker 3 (18:43):
I love Alan Eric, I love very good friends. Yeah right, yeah,
I feel like Al though the same kind of thing.
Happened where he made UHF, and then you know he
didn't make a movie for than twenty some odd years.

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Yeah, I mean, so it comes around. I think it's
a little bit like music. Particularly if comedy is experimental
or a little weird, a little stage, it goes out fashion. Yeah,
and then you have to wait for it to come
back around.

Speaker 3 (19:09):
Comedy is very very not in fashion in movies and
TV right now. It's just it's just very very difficult
to get something made. So that's why podcasts you see.

Speaker 1 (19:20):
Oppenheimer, that's pretty funny. It was pretty funny.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
Got playing the bongos all the time. Hey, mister bongos,
enough for making a nuclear bomb here?

Speaker 1 (19:31):
Yeah, and Albert Einstein was there. That was great. That guy,
what's his governor go? What's the governor go? East to me? Alberto.

Speaker 3 (19:37):
I do think it's funny that they made Robert Downey
Junior wear that bald cap and he got an Oscar
for it. For wearing a bald cap.

Speaker 1 (19:43):
That's how you get him. That's how you get an oscar.
He's a pretty good bald cap. But yeah, like he
should share it with the bald cap. Maybe he maybe
he shaved it because that he's appropriate. I think maybe
I do it.

Speaker 3 (19:55):
I can't see him shaving his head.

Speaker 1 (19:57):
He's pretty would do it, well, I shaved my I'd
do right now for like forty bucks.

Speaker 3 (20:02):
Forty bucks.

Speaker 1 (20:02):
Yeah, yeah, you go forty bucks, I'll shave my head.
What would you do?

Speaker 3 (20:07):
Do you act much anymore?

Speaker 1 (20:08):
Not anymore? I get very impatient with it, do you now?

Speaker 3 (20:12):
I'm not really like one thing a year?

Speaker 1 (20:14):
Maybe, yeah, I don't get asked that much.

Speaker 3 (20:16):
Yeah, neither way. I'm off only of course, yo fuck yeah,
which means I never work.

Speaker 1 (20:20):
Yeah. Well, yeah, because you know, auditions for me, I
imagine I hated that.

Speaker 3 (20:26):
She hated I. I was auditioning in the time in
La where you had to have the Thomas Guide map, yes,
and you had to basically do three or four a day.
And they were all over the city, growing to Santa
Monica eleven and then back to the valley, and it
was casting directors.

Speaker 1 (20:44):
Lived in little bungalows in the middle of nowhere and
yeah yeah.

Speaker 3 (20:47):
And at a certain point, I think in like nineteen
ninety nine or so, I was like, this is wasting
all of my time.

Speaker 1 (20:54):
Yeah, the whole day. Yeah, you're starting the car trying
to get a job you don't really want anyway, but yeah,
but your agent wants you to get Yeah.

Speaker 3 (21:00):
So I just told my agent I'm not going to
audition anymore and so.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
And so you're not long you were still with that agent,
but no, but.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
Uh yeah, So I just found it like more productive
to like write scripts and do stuff, you know, without well, I.

Speaker 1 (21:16):
Kind of go in the same thing because I was
doing the Drew Carey Show because I one of those
things clicked for me. I was running but nineteen ninety six,
and then I found myself like, oh I did like
once a week is going to go Getta You'll filed.
And then that was that's all I fucking did. You
got fired every week. Yeah you awful and getty you'll fired,
and everyone's terrible. Good day. And then I had nothing

(21:40):
to do, so I just would write in my trailer.

Speaker 3 (21:42):
Otherwise you go, but writing a trailer it's very hard
for me, really, Yeah, trailer is my time.

Speaker 1 (21:50):
Yeah, I get I think it's cause it was it
was a job that went on forever.

Speaker 3 (21:55):
Yeah, I can only you know. I mean eventually, when
you're when you're on a show like that, you don't
have like a dressing room.

Speaker 1 (22:00):
You haven't well, you get a trailer, but it's you know,
it's outside the thing, and it's it's okay. It was
all right, right, I'm not complaining about it, but it
was it got a little boring, I think. No, with
the invention of Instagram, I wonder how many scripts have
not been written.

Speaker 3 (22:17):
I know, yeah, it's so easy. You're basically writing on
this thing that is the portal. Too fun for your brain, right,
you know what I mean? And you and so like
I'm constantly writing on a computer and being like, yeah,
but if I click on this on the computer, I
can have way more fun, I know.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
And it's it's actually I think maybe it's my age,
but I feel like social media may be one of
the worst things that's happened to human society in a while.

Speaker 3 (22:41):
I think so, yeah, I think that you know, so,
so much of what has happened in the world over
the past eight years, yeah, has really been because of it.

Speaker 1 (22:52):
Well, I think the I've correct me if I'm wrong.

Speaker 3 (22:55):
You're clever, Right, you are wrong, That's how clever you are.

Speaker 1 (23:00):
But I feel like for democracy to be functional, there
has to be a reasonably honest press.

Speaker 3 (23:09):
Right, there isn't, so it doesn't work right, I mean,
does not have to be completely It's best to be
reasonably honest.

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I mean there was always William Hurst or all these motherfuckers,
but it was nothing.

Speaker 3 (23:23):
Yeah. The problem is is that there used to be
at least facts that we all sort of agreed on, right,
and you would kind of go like, well, how do
I feel about it? Maybe I liked it, maybe I
didn't like it, but at least like we know what
the facts are because you'd read it in the paper
everything and every paper kind of said the same thing,
you know, right, And now you know no one reads

(23:44):
any papers, you know, they all just kind of maybe
hear about something, you know, from social media or something.

Speaker 1 (23:50):
You know, stuff becomes like real when it's not real.
Like do you remember the mine apocalypse? Remember that? I was?
I was concerned. We live through that?

Speaker 3 (23:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (23:58):
Twenty twelve?

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Oh my, how'd you fare in it?

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Well? You know, it was it was a tough time.

Speaker 3 (24:06):
It was so long ago.

Speaker 1 (24:06):
I remember the min apocalypse? Why two K?

Speaker 3 (24:09):
Why two K?

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Why too K? You imagine white two K? Now with
social media like it might actually have happened. Why two K?

Speaker 3 (24:16):
I was always like because I was in California at
the time. I was like, it will happen in Australia
hours and hours before we'll know it's coming. Yeah, right,
like so by the time, but everyone was still like,
you know, trying to see what was going to happen.
But all we had were computers back then too. I
did my phone, and computers.

Speaker 1 (24:34):
Were powered by rabbits and yeah, smaller rodents on little
wheels and the you had to use a I mean
it was it was different. I remember Conan used to
do that thing in the year to I love about
Conan is that after the Year that genius wonderful?

Speaker 3 (24:54):
Did you so you got your show after Conan had
already been going for fifteen years or ten for a
long time. Yeah? Was he like an influence on you
or Yeah?

Speaker 1 (25:03):
I loved Conan and I I was on a show
quite a bit before I go late and once once
I was up against.

Speaker 3 (25:11):
Him, the where could go again?

Speaker 1 (25:13):
Well I did eventually when he moved on to the
other one or the the Conan Show. Yeah, but it
kind of amite it a little.

Speaker 3 (25:21):
Weird because now we're seeing networks.

Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, the networks then were very strict about were they
really Yeah, it was a different like remember when Dave
and j were meant to be enemies and all that
kind of stuff.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
And our senior was going to kick Jay's ass.

Speaker 1 (25:35):
And all that. It's funny because I do gigs sometimes
with our Senio and Jay really together. Yeah, Senior Senior
Holiday Leanta. I've been friends for like four years, right,
So I was like, well, wait, weren't you guys fighting
each other? And I'm like, oh God, that's so stupid.

Speaker 3 (25:52):
I've always thought that because I did a fake talk show. Yes,
I I wondered if it would be fun to do
a real talk show because I was always sort of like,
in my mind, I was kind of like, Okay, I'll
do the fake talk show and then you know, I
was trying to springboard into something bigger in my mind,
and then all of TV just kind of shut down,
and you know. But then I've heard from friends that

(26:14):
I wouldn't have enjoyed it. But I wonder if I
would have enjoyed it. If I had done it like
you where it was just like a free flowing conversation.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
I think you would have been fine with it. I
think you would enjoy it. I think that because what.

Speaker 3 (26:23):
I've heard most about it is that people find it
very boring talking to people that they don't care about,
you know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (26:30):
Yeah, that that is a thing, But that only happens
if you have to talk to them about what they
want to talk But if you go into the Like
why I came to reasonably quickly is I thought, it
doesn't matter what once they get out there, what are
they going to do not talk to me? So I
would say, like, right, you have to talk about the

(26:51):
movie right away. So they come out and I would say,
where'd you meet your wife? You know? And they're not
going to say, I'm not telling you. It's not a
horrible question, it's a reasonable quest. Would there be stars who,
like politicians, would try to pivot like yeah, politicians to
protect I had like three or four on in ten years,
and then I was like, okay, that's I'm not having
it because these guys are so trained.

Speaker 3 (27:11):
Professional pivoters to just get back to whatever they want
to talk about.

Speaker 1 (27:15):
Right, So you say, you know, where'd you meet your wife?
And then go where I met my wife? Reminds me
of the time that, you know, And then we're having
a lot of problems with that in this country, right exactly,
Like I don't want to hear your ship.

Speaker 3 (27:27):
So you would not do any kind of pre interviews
or anything like that.

Speaker 1 (27:30):
Well, they were done, they were done, they were done.

Speaker 3 (27:33):
They weren't look at them.

Speaker 1 (27:34):
Yeah, I didn't look at them. I did it well
in the same way that when you were doing the
fake talk show, constructing the interview the way you wanted
it to be. I was just doing the same thing.
That's why when I would watch like Between Two Firms
or like that, I would go, well, that's kind of
what I want to achieve here too, which is that?

(27:55):
And you know that kind of discomfort, that kind of fun,
that kind of.

Speaker 3 (27:58):
Yeah, it's all. And I I feel like late night
talk shows are so produced and so overproduced now basically
you know that where you know that you'll have four
pre interviews sometimes before you guessed on one, and they'll
really be trying. Yeah, they'll really be trying to focus
in on like the exact thing you're going to talk about.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
That sounds awful.

Speaker 3 (28:17):
And that's why like my show in Between Two Ferns
were so fun is because we would never tell the
people what was going to go, what was going to
happen and it would all just be in the moment.
And I love that feeling of, like you know, someone
in the moment being surprised by something.

Speaker 1 (28:31):
It's more fun.

Speaker 3 (28:32):
Yeah, it's so much more fun.

Speaker 1 (28:33):
More fun, And as long as you're not some evil
kind of killer that's trying to hide something and you're
barely keeping it, and that's not a problem, you know,
I think, although, of course, as we all know, Hollywood
is packed full of evil killers that's keeping it do.
What I love is when they say, you know, the
Hollywood community get together and do that, and I'm like,

(28:53):
what the fuck are you talking about.

Speaker 3 (28:54):
The community here? I wasn't advised.

Speaker 1 (28:57):
Yeah, is that a thing? When they would say it,
I had to someone say the Hollywood cocktails are kid,
I'm like, you're fucking mad. There's more people in a
meetings and there are drinking cocktails in Hollywood.

Speaker 3 (29:08):
I mean, there is a certain like if I remember,
I had a publicist for a little bit, right, and
they really encourage you to go to these just like things,
you know what I mean, And they don't make a
single lick of difference if you go to it or
if you don't go to.

Speaker 1 (29:23):
No, I don't. I don't think it does. I think
that what happens. It's a little bit like the executivization
of things. Now that you know you and I both
as we've been on pitches together. Pitch it's like, you like,
why are all these people here? I feel like there
were like eighteen people on a pitch that we just
did recently, right, I don't like what the fuck is? Look,

(29:45):
if we got an audience that big, I'll be happy. Yeah,
you'll be fucking lucky.

Speaker 3 (29:49):
My favorite pitch that we did was for the Michael
Bolton special that we might have been Tricky, which was
literally we we did a mock up poster of Michaelton
shirtless on a bed and we took it to Netflix
and said, it's just this.

Speaker 1 (30:07):
They put it and they were like, okay, yeah, you
know what. I feel like I would have too. It's
someone inspired. How did you did you have to say
it to Michael Bolton?

Speaker 3 (30:15):
No, he wanted to do it. It was it was
it was more of like he he approached Akiva. Do
you know Akiva Schaffer of the Lonely Island. I know
who you're talking about. He's great. So they approached Kiva
to see if if he wanted to do some sort
of special and Akiva said, like, well, if I were

(30:38):
doing it, I would do like a parody of specials,
and I would call it like Michael Bolton's Big Sexy
Valentine's Day. And I think I would want to do
it with Scott because he would understand that. He would
understand it, and he does that kind of stuff on
his show. So like he goes, I don't really know
how to do it, So I think if we did
it together, it would be fun, and they went, yeah,
that sounds great to us, and so.

Speaker 1 (31:00):
We just kind of it was this is great.

Speaker 3 (31:01):
Ye, it was so fun because we had no parameters
of anything to do, and.

Speaker 1 (31:06):
Michael Bowle looked great. You know. It's why I think
they're trying to do with these roast things.

Speaker 3 (31:11):
Yeah, but I don't know why.

Speaker 1 (31:14):
Why would you ever do it? I can't connect to
it at all?

Speaker 3 (31:18):
Yeah, I mean, like, like, why would if you're Tom Brady, right,
why are you doing this?

Speaker 1 (31:22):
Well?

Speaker 3 (31:23):
I asked someone that exact same question the other day
and they said, money. I think Tom Brady must he
has money, right, Yeah, he's got so much.

Speaker 1 (31:31):
Yeah, I can't be that.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
It must be like it's quest for fame.

Speaker 1 (31:35):
He's pretty pretty famous, pretty famous?

Speaker 3 (31:37):
Quest for more fame I actually need. I really don't know.
It's it's baffles me.

Speaker 1 (31:44):
It might be a manifestation of greed.

Speaker 3 (31:48):
Hmmm, one of the seven Deadly sins.

Speaker 1 (31:52):
Exactly so, because I feel like, you know, if you
look at just like straight up greed, like you know
people who have billions like Jeff Bezos or Mark Zuckerberg
or you know the like the big name money players,
I'm like, what the fuck are you doing with all that?
How could you even?

Speaker 3 (32:11):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (32:11):
What does it matter at that point? Why could you
possibly want? You can? In twenty lifetimes? You couldn't get
through it?

Speaker 3 (32:18):
Do you find that you were like, where are you
in terms of like what you want to achieve in life?
Have you done it? Have you done everything?

Speaker 1 (32:26):
Or do you still?

Speaker 3 (32:28):
No?

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I don't think that.

Speaker 3 (32:29):
You don't think so.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
I don't think that's I don't think that's healthy, have you? So?

Speaker 3 (32:33):
So there are still mountains that you'd like to climb.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
Not necessarily in career terms, you know, like, oh if
only I could get you know that? Yeah? I don't.
I don't think I have that anymore. But I think
I think that's I'm very grateful to Late Night and
I wonder because you've been very successful in this in
Hollywood as well, in a kind of sideways way that
you probably didn't expect, which is exactly what happened to me.

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Yeah, and I never expect to have a TV show.
At a certain point I gave up.

Speaker 1 (33:02):
Yeah, I never expected to have. Really I wanted like
success was one thing, like you would be in a
movie and with Sandra Bullock or something, and that was
that was how you would be successful. And so I
had this kind of slightways thing. But what it did,
and I wondered if it did this to you, is
it demystified the entire thing you managed to douschbag ratio

(33:22):
amongst the mega successful. It's exactly the same as in
the average Danny's I.

Speaker 3 (33:28):
Think I I sort of once I got my TV
show and then I won a couple of Emmy's, I
would something in terms of career was like, oh I
don't need it switched off for me, where I was like,
oh okay, I kind of I did want to direct
a movie, so I directed the Between two Ferns movies.

Speaker 1 (33:50):
So I still did you like doing that?

Speaker 3 (33:53):
Uh, for the most part, it was fun. Did it
come out the way I wanted it to? Not really
exactly what.

Speaker 1 (33:59):
Happened me really, I directed one movie.

Speaker 3 (34:02):
Which movie?

Speaker 1 (34:02):
It was a movie called I'll Be There. Directed it
in two thousands. I wrote the script I'm in the movie.
I you know, I directed the movie, and I don't
like it.

Speaker 3 (34:13):
You don't like it? Yeah, it's hard. It's it's very hard.
There's this like just kind of magic thing that you're
it's like a magic trick you're trying to achieve, and
then it's so easy to fuck it up. And people
people like my movie and stuff like that, and I.

Speaker 1 (34:27):
I I got the same thing as well, won some
of the awards here and there.

Speaker 3 (34:31):
But it was like, I'm kind of embarrassed by it
in a northerway because I'm like, that's no, it's I'm not.
I guess I'm not embarrassed by mine as much as
I'm just like, because it's good, all right, Well, but
but I but I do look at it and go like, fuck,
if only I had known this, Like so many of

(34:53):
my projects are like if only I had known this
in retrospect, in hindsight, now I know a different choic
I would have made, like the only thing that I
really have put out that I've been proud of just
totally was I think my TV show where I was
like made all the right choices. I feel like I did.

Speaker 1 (35:12):
That's great. I did the best I could. Yeah, I
did well. You know, I kind of feel the same
way about mine too. But the Late Night so yeah,
it was like, by and large, I think that was
that hits. Yeah.

Speaker 3 (35:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's tough, but but yeah, at a certain
point in my forties, I was kind of like, oh,
you know what, I sort of don't have that clawing
need of you know, filling the hole in my soul
with career. You know, you know whatever hole that was.
You go, Phill doubla, Come, I want money.

Speaker 1 (35:41):
Yeah, a couple of Emmys in a better cash and
you know, and you feel a little better. Let anyone
tell you differently, you know, it's like, oh, awards mean nothing,
they do, but there's still not if you've.

Speaker 3 (35:52):
Never won any like award, you're kind of like going,
it would be nice to get up there on stage
and actually like hold the thing. Yeah, you know what
I mean.

Speaker 1 (36:00):
And then when you get up there and hold the
thing's fucking great.

Speaker 3 (36:03):
And I did a funny speech and so I was like, you.

Speaker 1 (36:05):
Weren't excited, and people liked it and were happy for you. Yeah,
I know, it's great. Yeah, I loved it. Yeah, I
mean would I do it again? Yes? Yes I would.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
Do they give awords for something like this? Can we
win together?

Speaker 1 (36:19):
I don't know? Maybe probably?

Speaker 3 (36:21):
Can we hold hands as we go up on?

Speaker 1 (36:23):
So here's the thing. I got one. This is a
great one. I got one from Scottish BAFTA, which is
the British British Academy Film and Television Arts.

Speaker 3 (36:32):
Right.

Speaker 1 (36:32):
I knew the bee right, So they have a Scottish
one of it, and I'm bouta. I think it's Safta
bafts of the Sabbafta or something. But it's the kind
of divisional thing. It's in Scotland and.

Speaker 3 (36:45):
It's like the daytime Emmys kind of When I went
for a game show, I called my mom. I said,
I want an Emmy form my games woman. She went, ah, Daytammy,
Thanks thanks mom.

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Yeah? Do you is your mom still around?

Speaker 3 (36:59):
My mom is, yes. My father passed away six months ago.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
Oh gosh, I'm sorry. That's still very sore.

Speaker 3 (37:05):
No, it was all right, it was it was yeah,
it was okay. It was obviously a sad time, but
it was like kind of expected. He's been hanging on
since nineteen eighty one. I feel like, so, what was
if he had a strange operation to take care of
something in his throat? Pardon me if I'm not using

(37:25):
the correct medical terminology, but I think throats is correct, right,
it is correct, and procedure procedure doctors something that I've heard.
But it was supposed to be just a like minor thing.
And my mom came to the hospital and they said, well,

(37:46):
we think he's going to survive. What And she was
like what, and like something with his throat had gone wrong,
and so they used part of his in to be
his throat. They like took part of his coalon to make.

Speaker 1 (38:06):
I don't they need permission to do that? Well, who knows?

Speaker 3 (38:10):
It's nineteen eighty one. Differently, yeah, I'm not sure who
they would. I think they called his teachers at school. Yeah,
but no, yeah, so they they had just to save
his life. They had done this, and so he pulled through.
It was like a weird summer. I think it was
eighty two actually, but ever since then, he just had

(38:31):
issues with his throat. He had to sleep like sort
of sitting up at forty five degree angle, and he
had trouble gaining weight because food wouldn't get down there.
Agu when this happens, I'm twelve. Yeah, so you're destined
for a career in comedy because the trauma now is like, right,
it's real it. I mean, it never really felt incredibly.

(38:52):
I mean I was shuveled around to parental friends that
whole summer, sure, but they never really told me how
serious it was, right, So I think I was just
kind of in my like, yeah, everything's great, everything will
be fine, you know. And it turned out it was
relatively fine. But it was one of these things for
forty years. It was like an issue.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
That's it's a long time to be dealing with whatever,
the mysterious thing.

Speaker 3 (39:16):
This is right, But my mom? Why did you ask
about my mom?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (39:19):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Was she because?

Speaker 3 (39:20):
Yeah, because of your your mom. Yeah, my mom had
the classic line when I was I did musical theater
when I was in my early twenties and I did
Curly in Oklahoma, and she came to see it, and
she'd been to all my shows and she said you
were really good. I mean, for the first time I
felt like you actually met what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (39:43):
I was like, yeah, yeah, comedies for you. You know,
it is the I mean, I've said this a million
times in this podcast, but it's like there is a
there is a resonance with humorists, whether they're male or female,
with their mothers.

Speaker 3 (39:58):
Yeah. I mean my mother was very sort of sure,
there's nothing to do with a lack of love or support,
but also backhanded.

Speaker 1 (40:04):
Yeah, there's there's a there's a weird I mean, I
love my mom and she was supportive in the way
that she understood. But she still with us. No, No,
she died years ago. She but she did not understand
show business at all. And I did my father. Did
your family understand that we grew up.

Speaker 3 (40:23):
You know, just forty five minutes south of LA So
I think that they, I mean they sort of. It
just seemed very far away, even though it was only
forty five minutes away Hollywood. But my dad, I think
was very interested in it because he would sometimes like
take me to lunch and pitch me like an idea
for a show or a movie. I remember once he
business his profession. He was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam,

(40:47):
and then he flew privately for a little while, and
then he went into the aerospace industry where he would
make like the overhead compartments for planes and stuff like that.
So he but he I feel like he was sort
of a frustrated artist in a way, because he would
like sometimes I would find he he had written like

(41:10):
newspaper columns, like humorous newspaper columns, like like where he
was trying to like, you know, work out something, some
sort of you know, in the at his church, he
would be in plays and he would sing and oh, clearly,
you know, I feel like, yeah, I feel like there
was an impulse, and so I feel like he was.
I don't know that he ever was appreciative of any

(41:34):
of the stuff I made necessarily, but like I think
I worked on the movie Shark Tale for a couple
of years kind of thinking like, you know, I've done
all this adult humor. Here's something my parents can appreciate.
I took him to the premiere and after the lights
came up, my dad was like, well, that wasn't very good,
was it.

Speaker 1 (41:52):
It was like, really, okay, that's funny.

Speaker 3 (41:55):
Is my Sharktail must be almost twenty years ago.

Speaker 1 (41:59):
Yeah too, Yeah, because I remember taking my oldest boy
to see shark Tail when it come out, and he.

Speaker 3 (42:06):
Loved it so in the community thank him.

Speaker 1 (42:10):
Well, you know what I.

Speaker 3 (42:12):
Loved Sharktail too, as I remember it was that was
that Will Smith? Will smithree pre slap Will Smith? Yeah, yeah,
o slap. He hasn't done a lot.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
Of It's hard to be the funny guy once you
hit someone. I know. I always try to remember that
when I'm frustrated.

Speaker 3 (42:31):
Have you ever been close to being physically assaulted on stage?

Speaker 1 (42:36):
Yeah? I have been, really really What happened when I
was drinking. I played a town called Dunfermline the Scotland.

Speaker 3 (42:46):
And and this is stand up.

Speaker 1 (42:47):
Yeah, I did some stand up that apparently didn't go
down well with the locals.

Speaker 3 (42:53):
How did they?

Speaker 1 (42:54):
They came up and got me as I was trying
to get out in a taxi. They threw a rock
in at the back of the taxi, broke the window
and I had to pay for the taxi drivers.

Speaker 3 (43:05):
Oh yeah, it was.

Speaker 1 (43:06):
It was a very expensive evening for me. No, but
I survived. Have you ever been assaulted on today?

Speaker 3 (43:11):
It was spit on once.

Speaker 1 (43:14):
I didn't know that I counted. I mean, I mean
then yeah a lot, Yeah, just spit on.

Speaker 3 (43:20):
There was one guy stand up.

Speaker 1 (43:22):
You didn't stand up at this point that.

Speaker 3 (43:23):
Was like sketch stuff. Someone got it very offended at
the subject matter. I think, and and like I asked
what it was. I can't really remember. It was something.
I mean, this is like doing stuff at the UCB
Theater where like everything is kind of.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
Is that the one in Hollywood? Yeah, I love that
little space. That's such a good theater.

Speaker 3 (43:40):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:41):
I Benchwartz wrote me to start going to do.

Speaker 3 (43:44):
His show first snow snow Pants. Yeah and yeah Ben Swartz. Okay,
so he asks me to do snow pants and he goes,
I know you don't really do improv, but I'm going
to take care of you.

Speaker 1 (43:54):
You know, he's not going to do that.

Speaker 3 (43:56):
So I do with jj Abrams and I get out
there and no one else is like stepping forward to
establish a scene with Ben. So I know someone asked you.
So I walk out there and I go, so, hey, uh,
and I said, I forget what I said, and Ben goes,
that's what you're going to start the scene. I'm like,
you're not doing it. And then j J abrams destroys

(44:19):
and does like various scenes in different characters. He does
a singing improv bitch stop it. It was that's crazy.
It really made me feel bad.

Speaker 1 (44:29):
Yeah, when I was doing I did a couple of
times with him. It felt like I loved it though,
and I felt like I was with the cool kids
for a while. Yeah, I was at UCB. I you're
probably UCP, right, Yeah, I did.

Speaker 3 (44:47):
I produced a show there for about ten years.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
Yeah. I was always very jealous of that because I
I felt like that that's the cool people. It was fun.

Speaker 3 (44:55):
I mean, we obviously would have had you come do
it if you know, we had no how to reach
you who you were. No, we had people like Robin
Williams hung out there for a long time and would
come do shows with Robins.

Speaker 1 (45:08):
Robin.

Speaker 3 (45:09):
I became friendly with Robin after he was in the
Late Night Show and he I mean, obviously he knows this,
but he loved to just get up anytime. He was
very supportive. He would sometimes watch shows that we were
doing and I would say, like, do you want to
come out and do it? He goes, No, one wants
to see me you guys are doing fine by by yourself.
You know, he would just want to watch.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
You know, he was lovely. Did you become friendly and
anyways you spend any time with him?

Speaker 3 (45:34):
Friendly in a way of like I did a few
shows with him. He would know who I was when
you saw me, but you know, not not ever like
hanging out other than backstage, right.

Speaker 1 (45:45):
Yeah, I suppose that was the extent of my hanging
out with him as well, with backstage of theaters.

Speaker 3 (45:49):
But he uh, yeah, that was a tough one. Yeah,
when Robin went so nice, Yeah, he was really nice.
He was a guy like another info on you know. Yes,
I told him about the day he did work from
work on Happy Days and I was a huge, huge
Happy Days fan. And I'm probably nine or ten or

(46:13):
something like that. And I remember being on Errand's with
my mother the next day and she hadn't seen it,
and telling her the entire plot, with every joke of
him on Happy Days. And we were going through like
a checkout line and the checkout person goes like, sounds
like someone's a Happy Days last night, and it made
me feel kind of bad. Anyway, I told him that story.

(46:35):
I told him that story on Sage. There's a funny
picture of him, like with his hand on my knee
saying like, oh, thank you so much.

Speaker 1 (46:41):
Know, it's funny because he was one of the non
demystifiers for me. The other one was at Carrie Fisher.
That someone that you admire so much and then you
meet them and they don't disappoint you. That I think
is one of.

Speaker 3 (46:59):
The the dangers of being in show business, particularly if
you're doing what you and I have done in kind
of slightly different ways, which she's interacting with a lot
of people that you've probably been aware of for a
long time. Yeah, every once in a while, there will
be someone that you work with that you've really grown
up loving and it'll be kind of a bummer, you
know what. No, of course not, but that Ferguson. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:24):
But you know what's weird now is I get people
say to me, I grew up watching you and I'm
like and they're like forty, I'm like, what the hell
are you talking about? Yeah, it's like, oh my god,
but I uh, I don't know. There was there was
on Late Night. I would never allow the bookers to
even approach David boy just really case, just in case,

(47:44):
because what he said, yes, just in case, he said
by all accounts apparently he was great, but I don't know.

Speaker 3 (47:50):
You hear so many stories of him, uh, like I
just heard. I feel like Dave Wakeling of the English
Bead just told the story last week of I haven't
had no while I just saw him performing. He was like, yeah,
I met David Bowie at whatever after doing a show,
and he ran up to me and said, I want
you to be my opening actor, the greatest opening act

(48:12):
I've ever seen, or something.

Speaker 1 (48:13):
Like that, And it's kind of like sideways compliments.

Speaker 3 (48:18):
You're not one of headliner head I think he was
over time man. But yeah, by all accounts great, But yeah,
it's I've been disappointed a couple of times with people
and it's like and it's it's hard not to watch them.
They're old.

Speaker 1 (48:34):
I try.

Speaker 3 (48:35):
I'm good at compartmentalizing though, so I can still find stuff.
People ask me like, why do you still can you
still listen to Michael Jackson records? And it's like so
much of art is a conversation I feel like, between
not only the artist but also your your younger self
when you first heard.

Speaker 1 (48:53):
It or watched it or something like that. Yeah. I
mean it's a great topic and one that fascinates me
is the art and the artist. So the idea of
you know, like, uh, the Castle would probably be in
jail for this relationship with Maritz, but you know it
was what do you do with that? It's everyone's gone and.

Speaker 3 (49:15):
At this point, yeah, everyone's gone, Like Michael Jackson has gone.
So I don't feel like me listening to his music
is supporting him, yeah, financially or anything like that. Even
like so R Kelly, he's in jail.

Speaker 1 (49:27):
He's in jail, so he's not making money.

Speaker 3 (49:30):
He's not making money.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
R Kelly fan I wasn't really aware of much.

Speaker 3 (49:34):
I mean, you know, it's can you listen to me?
You know anyone like that who was a monster?

Speaker 1 (49:38):
Right?

Speaker 3 (49:40):
Is it still okay? And I think Nick Cave had pulp.

Speaker 1 (49:42):
Fiction Harvey Weinstein, you know what, I'm like, what are
you gonna do?

Speaker 3 (49:46):
Nick Cave had an interesting thing to say about this,
which because I think he was talking about Morrissey and
how like right wing Morrissey is now and.

Speaker 1 (49:55):
He's gone to Phil Church show, He's made the Phil journey.

Speaker 3 (49:59):
And so and I think he was saying, like so
much of music is just like thinking about how you
felt when you first heard it and thinking about your
younger self and stuff like that. So he was saying like,
it's not.

Speaker 1 (50:11):
And also where the artist was at that time too.
I mean, look, you've been doing this for long enough
to surely have written something that you look at it
now and go, oh fuck. I would not write that.

Speaker 3 (50:24):
When Mister Show went on HBO, Max, I got a
lot of people going like, oh my god, I'd never
seen Mister Show when I was catching up with it,
and I'm always like.

Speaker 1 (50:35):
Nineties I Show I miss the show was was just
coming on. I had moved to America in ninety five
and Mister Show coming on and Bob and David. I
felt like, I'll never be cool enough to even meet
those guys.

Speaker 3 (50:51):
They did you ever actually then meet? Yeah?

Speaker 1 (50:54):
And that I met both.

Speaker 3 (50:55):
Yeah, it's pretty cool.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
It's fine. I don't know how cool I am. I'm
cool enough.

Speaker 3 (51:00):
They're not very cool.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
It's funny that I remember one of the last Bob
Bob Bob oden Kirk. His son went to the same
school as one of my boys went and he's a
little bit older. So yes, And I was at the
parking lot the first day of when my son started
going to the school, and they were at the school
bus and I got out with my son and got

(51:23):
him onto the bus, and Bob was still in this
car because he'd been doing it for a year, and
I was walking back to McCarty wound down the window.
He said, nobody gets out of the car. Craig characteristically
aggressive for he was. There was humor in it, but
like he's not really one of those aggressive so I

(51:49):
kind of I'm so. I think it's an age thing
maybe as well. Do you you find now that you
think nobody fucking knows what is that old Bill Goldman thing.
Nobody knows what's going on. Nobody knows what was going
to be funny or what was going to be successful.

Speaker 3 (52:03):
I don't know. Yeah, I mean those those guys, Bob
and David were definitely like huge. They're one of the
reasons I started just doing comedy anyway, is because I
saw one of their shows. Yeah, at the same time
that like three things happen, I saw their show, I
watched an Andy Kaufman special, and then my friend that
week said, hey, I hate your latest script, but my

(52:28):
my roommate's a comedian and I've always thought maybe you
could do comedy. Do you want to do the comedy
Store in the show that she's in. I was like, yeah, okay,
like those three like yeah, those three things happening in
the same week.

Speaker 1 (52:40):
Were it's a sign of a prime mover in your life.
Do you have a Do you have a religious and
you told me your dad going to church. I wondered
if the Yeah, I grew up in the church. Which church,
like Baptist Church? Okay, fairly joyful setup. Is it more
than Scottish Presbyterians? Yeah, oh yeah, we're you.

Speaker 3 (53:00):
I mean, like the rituals and no, there's not that
much was there, like liturgy of the Eucharist.

Speaker 1 (53:06):
Probably yeah, they they I mean there's the biscuit, but
it doesn't tourn into Jesus. It just represents Jesus. That'd
be the same with Baptists.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
Yeah, we have the tiny, tiny like little way for like.

Speaker 1 (53:16):
Tiny little way. Well nobody nobody's getting a burger.

Speaker 3 (53:20):
See, maybe I would go to church if it was like, hey,
everyone gets a burger when you're here.

Speaker 1 (53:24):
Well, I'm sure there are some. Do you do you
have a religious connection that is it something that you.

Speaker 3 (53:30):
It was one of those things where I grew up
and it was just accepted as like, this is true, right,
And I always had this voice in the back of
my head going like, yeah, but these are really weird
stories that yeah, you know, like the whole okay, So
God is perfect, so and humans chose to sin. So

(53:56):
in order to make it cool for humans to go
up to heaven after they die, God split himself into
two and made himself also his son and then sent
his son down and his son could have sinned, but
he never did, and then they killed him and then
he came back down for a spell, Like how well.

Speaker 1 (54:18):
When you say it like that, so silly, But it
just always was.

Speaker 3 (54:24):
Kind of like I don't under that none of this
is really making sense to me.

Speaker 1 (54:27):
Did you ever read Julian by Gorvi Dal? I highly
recommend it.

Speaker 3 (54:34):
It's about Julian Lennon.

Speaker 1 (54:35):
Julian Lennon's about Julian Lennon, which is weird because I'm like,
he was just a kid. But he wrote this, Gordon,
let's do.

Speaker 3 (54:42):
The Jonlin, You're a good enough writer.

Speaker 1 (54:45):
He wrote it in nineteen sixty four, when Julie Lennon
was maybe two years old. I mean I hadn't done
a lot. Yeah, it's about Julian Augustus, Julian the Apostate,
who after he was the Emperor Constantine's grandson. So there
was Constantine and constant Titus and then Julian the Emperor,

(55:06):
and he was the last Augustus of the whole before
they split it, you know, one in the east, one
in the west. And he tried to return the Roman
Empire back to Hellenistic Hellenistic you know, pagan religions, Zeus
and Apollo and all that stuff. And he was doing
all that.

Speaker 3 (55:26):
His feeling was that had everything since everything was Christian,
everything was because he was trying to go he was
trying to get about enough about this christ guy. I
remember all these great.

Speaker 1 (55:37):
What about the ones we used to have, you know,
like Apollo, Zeus, all those guys, And he tried to
bring that back, but also allowed Christianity because Rome, contrary
to what you hear now, was like they had no
problem with what religion you were. It's it was about
if you paid tax, and it was the real problem,

(55:59):
you know. But the way that Gorvi Dao writes it
is a real I mean, it's scathing about Christianity, scathing
about the birth of Christianity, not the birth of it,
but the incorporation of it.

Speaker 3 (56:12):
Yeah, I don't have a I really don't have an
issue with anything that makes a person feel peace or comfort.

Speaker 1 (56:20):
I agree.

Speaker 3 (56:20):
I get nothing against that, even stuff like scientology. I
maybe have quibbles with some of their methods, but I
can bibble with a lot of it any But in
terms of a belief system, if anything makes someone feel better,
I think I'm fine with it. What I just really
don't like about everything is the trying to make everyone

(56:42):
else exactly the same what they are.

Speaker 1 (56:45):
Yeah, it's like you got to believe in what I believe, yes,
or you are an impost and are the enemy. Yes.

Speaker 3 (56:53):
So America, as far as I'm concerned, is like supposed
to be everyone believe whatever you want and we'll all
get a right.

Speaker 1 (57:00):
That's the idea.

Speaker 3 (57:01):
That's the idea. And where you know, even if you
have a neighbor who's like sort of cuckoo, You're like, hey,
we still care for you. You're you're fine. Yeah, But
what's the trouble is is like the people who who
inform their religious beliefs on laws and stuff like that,
is where it starts to be, like, look, I understand
you don't believe in abortion. That's great, So don't get

(57:24):
an abortion, right, you know what I mean? Like, but
don't don't start to just impose your stuff on us.

Speaker 1 (57:31):
It's it's abortion is a really really tricky one because
you're never going to change anyone's mind. Yeah, and that's
that's where you go. It's a real goody.

Speaker 3 (57:40):
No.

Speaker 1 (57:40):
I don't know how you get through that.

Speaker 3 (57:42):
It's so weird because it wasn't even like really an
issue until it was this, Yeah, until it was.

Speaker 1 (57:47):
Well, I don't know. I mean, you know, do you
remember the movie Dirty Dancing? Yeah?

Speaker 3 (57:51):
I do, as a matter of fact.

Speaker 1 (57:52):
Yeah, because then that they got a pretty big good
story about abortion and dirty dancing. And in fact, everyone
should see that movie again because it goes okay, but
also you know, okay, you know that's what I loved
that that should have been on the poster dirty Dad.
So okay, okay, but this is why my movie sucked, because.

Speaker 3 (58:20):
Okay, but do you remember the tagline of your movie?

Speaker 1 (58:24):
Was there one?

Speaker 3 (58:25):
Do you have the poster somewhere?

Speaker 1 (58:26):
Oh?

Speaker 3 (58:26):
Fuck, I'm sure somebody mine was. There's nowhere he won't go.

Speaker 1 (58:33):
I did one for Warner Brothers. This is a movie
that actually was quite proud. I didn't direct this movie.
But then a movie called The Big Teas, which was
about a Scottish hairdresser that comes to Los Angeles to
take part in the World Hairdressing competition.

Speaker 3 (58:45):
I sort of remember this.

Speaker 1 (58:46):
Yeah, I played it. Yeah, yeah, And I stand by
the movie. It's funny movie. But because it was nineteen
ninety eight and the character I was playing was gay
and the sympathetic character, there was no yes other than
he was a gay man. But it was an R.

Speaker 3 (59:05):
It was rated R just for the fact that it
was for the fact content, the fact that it was
still mature contact.

Speaker 1 (59:11):
It was just the fact that he was a gay character.
This is before Will and Grace was on TV or
anything like that. And the I wanted to put on
the log line of the poster he came, he combed,
he conquered right right. They wouldn't put it on because
they said he came sounds like he came right sex
and he's gay. I'm like what, so they on the

(59:33):
log line that says he saw, he combed, he conquered.

Speaker 3 (59:37):
Like that, that doesn't make any sense at all. It's like,
you know how you get pringles the lovely chips out
of a can?

Speaker 1 (59:44):
Right? Well, you know in like the dollar stores they
sell prongles, they do, and on prongles it doesn't say
it speaking of the game, right, he doesn't say like it.
On the pringles it says, once you pop, you can't
start right broncles.

Speaker 3 (01:00:01):
It says, once you pop, that's great. Once you pop
that hey, but you great, and that you came reminded
me of Married to the Mob. I still remember that
the headboard in that just as v DVDVD, which is
because that's where he has sex with his guma. Very

(01:00:23):
that's very clever, that's very funny.

Speaker 1 (01:00:25):
That's a good Latin joke. Well listen, so here's my
pitch to you make a make a mini series of
Julian the Apostate by gor Vidal. I think it could
be hilarious and also a little bit game of thronesy interesting.

Speaker 3 (01:00:37):
I mean, you look at stuff like Game of Thrones
and show guns and stuff like that.

Speaker 1 (01:00:41):
It could be very, very popular.

Speaker 3 (01:00:43):
I don't know why anyone would want me to do that,
but because you're clever and what you make is good
and that's why I haven't even read the book.

Speaker 1 (01:00:51):
Though this doesn't matter. I've read it, so I've read.

Speaker 3 (01:00:54):
There telling me what I'm doing, right, I'll be already
page forty two it says this, and you go, all right,
that will change, alright, we'll put yeah, yeah, we'll do that.

Speaker 1 (01:01:03):
It's been a joy talking to you. I wish you
could go longer. Can we do it again? Yes?

Speaker 3 (01:01:06):
I would love that. Yes, And if you ever would
want to do my show, and it's a lot dred
percent ridiculousness, No, I one.

Speaker 1 (01:01:13):
Hundred percent would want to do your show. And actually
this is kind of now legally you have to have
me on because a podcast swap of course. Yeah, yeah,
that's right. It's like it's what they used to do,
sitcom crossover episodes.

Speaker 3 (01:01:27):
Yeah, did you see the Two and a Half Men CSI?
That's awesome. The writing staff from cs I wrote the
two and a half Man and vice versa. Oh my god,
it's insane.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
You know. I did one with the Big Bang Theory.

Speaker 3 (01:01:41):
Oh interesting? Where I with the Big Bank? Oh? Meaning
your show and the Big Bank?

Speaker 1 (01:01:45):
Yeah, and I went on the Big Bang Theory. Were
they on me? I can't remember, but there was this.
We were on their set and I had applied for
the job to be Sheldon's friend and I didn't get it.
It's like one and see, like, oh fuck.

Speaker 3 (01:02:01):
We were trying to do one with Mark Maron show
on my show, Oh yeah, and he shut it down.
But it was going to be, uh like because we
were back to back and I would love that when
I was young watching shows interact, you know, so like
he was going to be on my show and then
I was going to be on his show, and then
eventually it all just like went away because he didn't
want to do it.

Speaker 1 (01:02:21):
But it was. I did one with Drew Carrey on
The Prices Right and myso as a special, really wacky thing.
CBS let me host The Prices Right and let Drew
host my show.

Speaker 3 (01:02:34):
That's fun.

Speaker 1 (01:02:35):
You know, it wasn't bad.

Speaker 3 (01:02:37):
Was it fun to host The Prices Right and do
all those games and stuff?

Speaker 1 (01:02:39):
Really?

Speaker 3 (01:02:40):
Was?

Speaker 1 (01:02:40):
Was it? Really? Yeah? I felt like I was like
I got to shore driving the Space Shuttle or so.
It's amazing.

Speaker 3 (01:02:46):
I think when celebrities you see them on these game
shows these days, and they all have to play for charities,
it's like, let them keep them money, let.

Speaker 1 (01:02:53):
Them keep them money, I know what I mean. And
then I'm in, yeah, yeah, like I give money, Jarny, sure, yeah.

Speaker 3 (01:03:00):
Make some you'll give ten percent of it maybe to charity.
Like let's have a celebrities give, you know, ten percent
to charity, and the other night he goes and another
night goes to the celebrity.

Speaker 1 (01:03:09):
Yeah, that's why you're warned. Yes, exactly. I think that's fine.
All right, Well we got that sorted. You'll see me
next on Comedy Backpack.

Speaker 3 (01:03:16):
You see it and see it