A Conversation with NeNe Leakes (Part One)

Neither NeNe nor Bethenny have ever been known to shy away from calling it as they see it. So you can imagine the truths being dropped in this episode!

Part 1 takes you back to NeNe’s childhood and explores her life as she found fame. There was a drastic change for NeNe as she felt the pressure to be glam, rich and compete with the other women.

Part 2 begins by detailing the infamous closet scene as Bethenny and NeNe discuss the ups and downs of what’s REAL, who was wrong and what can still be made right

Part 1 & 2 available now.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:11):
So I want to say hello to all of you.
And I've never had a housewife on until Jill Zarin
and I did that because there was a it was
just a reuniting, and it was for a very specific reason.
But my show is not typically about housewives. And the
guest that's here today I have been thinking about having
on this podcast probably since the beginning. I keep saying

(00:33):
to myself, I want to do this? Should I do this?
Is this right? And it's not that I don't think
she'd be great for the show. It's that I only
want to have someone on if there's something really to discuss,
if there's just if it's coming out of me. So
today our guest is Needy Leaks.

Speaker 2 (00:50):
Oh do I hear a round of an applause?

Speaker 1 (01:00):
Here? Girl, you are here? I'm so We're in Connecticut.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yes, we are.

Speaker 1 (01:05):
You and I talked a couple of times. You sounded
very different than I've ever heard you. And the first
thing I wanted to say, just overall, is are you okay?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
I'm better? How about that I'm better? There was a
time when I wasn't okay, but I am better now,
and I know that I'm gonna be okay.

Speaker 1 (01:31):
So you're in a transitional state, so I think.

Speaker 2 (01:34):
So I'm in my head a lot. I don't even
know if you know that. Maybe sometimes I'm like really
in my head. I've never been an overthinker, and now
I have become an overthinker. I know, you know, I'm
overthinking everything. I'm in a place in my life where
I kind of like don't trust nobody, Like I never
wanted to be that person ever, ever, ever in my life,

(01:55):
and so now I'm like looking at everybody like, okay,
so what they're trying to do, So, what they're trying
to say, trying to sit me up, you know, so,
and I hate that kind of thing. But I'm okay,
I really am.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
It's coming through because we spoke a couple of times
this week and we're going to get into everything. But
as far as have this happened, I have thought about
doing something with you, as you know, because I've called
you and asked you to do things, and we'll get
into it. But I've always been intrigued by you. I've
always thought you were a superstar. I've always thought you

(02:28):
were wildly entertaining, talented, a powerful force, and I've always
called you the goat. I've always said you should be
at the top of Rushmore. You were my first amount Rushmore,
and I don't give that many people credit. And I
feel like I'm always interesting and I feel like I've
always given you credit. And as I thought about having

(02:49):
you on many times, it was just like I would
have just been having you on to have you on
as a great guest. But something just sort of came
to be recently and it was just you've commented I'm
posted post of mine and vice versa, but I posted
something recently you commented. I commented back because I sort
of felt like you needed an Internet hug. I can't

(03:11):
explain it. I had like an energy about like you
needed to be included in something where you gave me.
You gave me a high five, you said cheers to you,
and I was like, cheers to us effectively, and I
just found it and I loved I just and I
felt like you needed an Internet hug. And then I
just said to my producers, now it's time, because I've
told them a million times calling you don't call me

(03:32):
to collneiny call. So this week I said, I'm positive,
and I'm positive. And then I've been texting you, and
then you called me, and then I really started to
realize what an actually good idea. This was better than
I even thought because I heard you fragile. I heard
you a little fraid. I did say to you, you

(03:52):
are in your own head, and I think you don't
even know how people perceive you. You're skewed, and I
felt that you are having a lack of trust, like
you just everything you just said it was coming through.
And then we spoke. I spoke to someone from your
team and a friend, and you know, I was. I
was absolutely I said to my team, we should have

(04:14):
this happen soon. She wants to do it soon, and
she may cancel. She may cancel because I think she's
very back and forth.

Speaker 2 (04:20):
Yeah, I was. I'm back and forth. I'm back and forth.
That's all I can tell you. You know, one day I'm
really good, the next day I'm not good, the next
day I'm okay. I'm just kind of back and forth.
And so when I saw your post on on Instagram,
I honestly felt like, Okay, may I be really honest? Yeah,

(04:41):
I honestly felt.

Speaker 1 (04:42):
Like, by the way, completely honest today.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Yeah, I honestly felt like Okay, So you know, my
heart wanted to say a win is a win, and.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
It was about this was about a post that Bravo
is now implementing better workplace conditions control cocktail consumption. And
it was sort of either a leaked or a found
letter from the Highers up and it was a big
win overall, even though it wasn't even the tip of
the iceberg. It was basically an emission that the shit

(05:15):
had been really had gone sighways, and the reality reckoning
was real, and Nini Combent did and say again, I.

Speaker 2 (05:21):
Started feeling like in that moment, I felt like that
happened really fast. That's how I felt when I saw it,
Like you know, they heard her like it was shocking
to me. That's how I know.

Speaker 1 (05:33):
And you've alluded to it in some of your interviews,
and I know that, and we're going to get into
all that because I know that you've had a different experience,
some different issues, but we're both on the same side
of this, and so I know that it took you
a lot to say to me, and I knew that
it was a little it was it was completely authentic,
but it was wrapped in a message. Oh they heard
you for me to be like and they didn't hear you.

(05:55):
But that's why I said to you they heard us,
because I wanted to sort of wrap this into it,
not leave you alone.

Speaker 2 (06:01):
I do believe that a win is a win. I
do believe that, right, Okay, So that's why I say
a win is a win. It doesn't matter you know
who slammed dunk, as long as we get the job
done right right, because at the end of the day,
we're on the same team and we have some of
the same message. So your voice was heard my as well,
wasn't It doesn't matter yours was heard.

Speaker 1 (06:20):
Well, yours is heard now. And I recognize coming into
this interview and at all times, you're going to have
a different experience in the world and in entertainment and
in reality TV than I am. And you're a black
woman and only you can speak to that. I cannot
speak to that. So I was thinking too, like, I
know Nani, and I know Nini, and I've told people,
but I don't really know. I don't really know you.

(06:40):
I don't know how you grew up. I don't know
your relationship history, your family. I don't know if you
grew up poor I know that I've watched the storylines
and someone else raised you. Can you just tell us
a little bit about your upbringing, like really, how you
came into adulthood.

Speaker 2 (06:57):
Okay, So my mom had my brother at eighteen and
me at nineteen, so she was very young having us.
My mom is from Athens, Georgia, which is right outside
of Atlanta, Georgia. And after giving birth to us, well,
my brother, she gave birth to in Georgia, and then
she moved away to New York City Queen's New York

(07:18):
City and Cambria Heights, and she gave birth to me,
which I was born in Jamaica Queen's Hospital in New
York City. Oh and yeah, in New York City. And
so my mom's family, her roots are in Athens, Georgia,
which is right outside of Atlanta. That's where her siblings were.
Because my mom was so young, my aunt, who is
her older sister, always said to me that she said,

(07:40):
to my mom, you're leaving those kids everywhere and with everybody,
why don't you bring them down to me? And she
took me and my brother to her oldest sister and
that's where our lives changed. My aunt, she only had
one daughter, and she couldn't have any more children after that,
so she became my mom, her husband became me and

(08:02):
my brother's mom and dad. She essentially adopt us, you know,
down the road. But we always had a relationship with
our mom. I was one of those kids that I
grew up in Athens, Georgia, but I went back and
forth to New York every senile summer. I would catch
greyhound bus. It would come through Athens. We would get
on the bus, pack all of our things and head

(08:22):
off to Queens, New York City and be with my
mom for the summer, and then she send us back
to Georgia right before school gets ready to start. So
I always had a relationship with my mom. I wouldn't
say my relationship was always great with my mom, because
after that, my mom ended up getting her life together,
getting married. She had a great husband who provided greatly

(08:43):
for her. She had three more children with him afterwards,
and I always felt like she never came back and
got us and I when I was like in middle
school in high school, like I really wanted my mom.
I honestly can't really explain it other than I just
really wanted my mom. It wasn't anything that my aunt

(09:06):
wasn't doing for us. She provided, you know, as best
she could for us. She gave us a great upbringing.
But I just wanted my mom. I wanted to be
with my mom. So I grew up with my mom's
oldest sister and her husband. I did not have my
mom and dad in my life on the everyday.

Speaker 1 (09:25):
Basis, So you felt left behind.

Speaker 2 (09:27):
I did because my mom would come and visit with
her children, and I always felt like, Okay, so my
mom is here with her kids and she's getting them
dressed and making sure their hair is great. And it
was almost like I was invisible, like I was not
you know, her other daughter, like, you know, girl, you're
gonna call my hair too? Right?

Speaker 1 (09:45):
Well, if you had, if she had gone on to
live a selfish life with no kids, that would be
slightly easier, but to go and then some other kids
are living the life that you didn't have, right, And
also that type of stuff is embarrassing in high school.
You have to make explanations. Is that your mom? Well,
it's kind of my mom, it's my hand. You have
to feel self conscious.

Speaker 2 (10:02):
And then that would be pierced when I didn't see
my mom for like a whole year, a year and
a half. You know, I didn't see my mom. I
was like, oh my god, stay up and see my mom.
But you know, even when I got to my teen
years where you know, you want to day boys or uh,
my mom's sister was older, and I felt like my
mom was younger, so she knew more hip things.

Speaker 1 (10:20):
You know, oh you were like aunt.

Speaker 2 (10:22):
Yeah, I was with my auntie ye. And so my
mom she knew more, you know, she was younger, yeah, cooler,
And I felt like, you know, I wanted her to
like make me cool, you know, like make my hair
look young or whatever it is, instead of my little
sisters with their hair all done cute and I'm over
here with my aunts. You know, I felt like you
didn't fit in right.

Speaker 1 (10:42):
Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (10:43):
And but as I got older, I got over the
relationship that me and my mom had got over as
in I wasn't holding any more grudges. I understood that
she was young when she gave birth to us. My
life with my aunt was my I was married to
an alcoholic. He was, when I said an alcoholic, like

(11:04):
extreme alcoholic, like he would be drunk and falling down.
And he's gotten many DUI's and he would curse her
out and really belitter her when he was drunk. And U.
I was with my aunt since I was about four years.

Speaker 1 (11:22):
Old, so you witnessed all that at that age growing.

Speaker 2 (11:25):
Up, es I witnessed everything growing up. He was a
great guy, though he wasn't abusive to us. I never
saw him hit her, but he was verbally abusive. He
taught me how to drive him and my brother. He
was a quiet man. The only time he really talked
is when he was drinking. If he wasn't drinking, he

(11:47):
was pretty quiet. So looking back, being an adult now
I know he was the kind of man who probably
held a lot of things in and drinking helped him
to say all the things he probably wanted to say
and hadn't said. But my uncle worked in the grocery
store and my aunt was a cook and a seamstress.

(12:08):
She later on had like an alteration shop, and she
was the lady in Athens, Georgia that did all the weddings,
like all the bridemaids dresses, and anybody that wanted curtains done.
She could sew everybody's curtains and so she had a
nice small home. But we had a good life.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
And was this middle class would I would say it
was middle class. You now, as a woman, do you
recognize how amazing that they took you in like that?

Speaker 2 (12:34):
I do. Younger, I could not appreciate it, But now
that I'm older, I do. I do. She gave me
a lot of great advice to and she died maybe
like a year before my husband passed. So she lived
until she was ninety two years old and she's only
been dead about three and a half.

Speaker 1 (12:54):
Years, so that was tremendous year.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
And she raised not only me and my brother, she
had a granddaughter and a great grandkid. She raised it
well as well. So she was one of those ladies
who raised all the kids in the family.

Speaker 1 (13:10):
Were you popular? I was popular, You were popular.

Speaker 2 (13:13):
I was in So she made us do every activity
in the world, like we were tired of activities. I mean,
I was a girl scout, I was a brownie. I
was in a four age club. I played basketball, I
was a cheerleader. I was in modeling school. I had
to go to college. Like she was like that lady.

Speaker 1 (13:28):
So you but you weren't insecure in that way, like
you felt like okay, and what about relationship history before Greg.
Were you attracted to good men?

Speaker 2 (13:36):
Did you?

Speaker 1 (13:36):
I know you've talked about abusive I don't know who
that was with.

Speaker 2 (13:39):
I do feel like my uncle, who was my father
raising me. I think that I was in a way
attracted to men that were abusive because I had dealt
with a My upbringing had some abuse in it, but
I didn't recognize that until I was in those relationships.
So I've always been in really long relationships. I am

(14:03):
a relationship person. I really like relationships. I don't like
really being single. I'm not a girl that would really
be out like dating. And I also think that I'm
not attracted to a lot of men. I love men,
but I always feel like it's like a special some
kind of guy. It's not like some girls they're like,
oh I like him him, and I don't like it

(14:24):
has to be like a special guy for me. I
don't know what that is. But every man I see,
I'm not attracted to them.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
And I know that because I know you broke up
with Greg very publicly, and it was so shocking that
you got back together because it was so public.

Speaker 2 (14:37):
But I got to tell you. See, I dated in
high school. I had a boyfriend. My aunt was very strict,
so she told me I couldn't date until I was sixteen,
and then when I turned sixteen, she told me I
was too childish, so I couldn't date at sixteen. About seventeen,
almost seventeen, she let me start dating. I had a
boyfriend all the way through high school. Then when I

(14:59):
went off to college. I went to college in Atlanta, Georgia,
so I've been there since I was eighteen. I went
to Mars Brown College in the Au Center where they
have Clark Spelman Moorhouse. Everybody knows all of those schools,
and so I got a boyfriend right as I got
on campus, and I started dating him for a short time.
And then I met my oldest son father. He had

(15:21):
come to my campus. That's who I had my son with,
my first child with. I met him in college and
he has the grand yes he does, and so he
was abusive. So he was really my first real boyfriend.
I didn't have sex until I was a freshman in college. Yeah,

(15:42):
I wanted to have sex, you know, prior to that,
but of course I couldn't. My aunt was saying I
was really mature, and I was saying, like all the
girls and in my neighborhood were using birth control and
it was kind of like a public thing. They would
go to the neighborhood like but yeah, the planned parent
call it a clinic, you know. And and I was like,

(16:03):
oh my gosh, like I felt pressure like everybody is,
you know, taking amer control pills. It was like a
little round pack and he used to turn it pressed
appell and I was like, I don't even have any boobs,
you know. It was like late developing. Yes, my son's father.

Speaker 1 (16:20):
But multiple times you were in a relationship with him, yes, I.

Speaker 2 (16:23):
Was about six years six seven years.

Speaker 1 (16:28):
Okay, And is your relationship good with your son?

Speaker 2 (16:31):
With my son?

Speaker 1 (16:32):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (16:32):
And I have a relationship with him now his father
really Yes, he was abusive to me.

Speaker 1 (16:38):
Does he acknowledge that.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
I don't know that he would ever acknowledge that. It's
just not disgusted, but he knows that I acknowledge it.
You know what I'm saying, because I was like, this
is real, and you did what you did? You know
what I mean? But after that relationship, I will tell
you this is how I met Greg. I was so
I was really bad abusive relationship. I didn't even want

(17:01):
to go into how bad he was to me. Once
I finally got away from him, I said, I'm never
dating another guy. If you even just talk mean to me,
like just say something mean to me, then I was
gonna be out. So every guy I talked to and
if they were like you and I'm like, okay, that's it,

(17:22):
you're talking. Yeah, I was out. And so when I
met Greg, I never dated an older man before. I
always date the guys that were my age, and when
I met Greg, I was like, he's not my type.
I don't think. So he asked me to go on
a date. I thought when he picked me up, he
opened up the doors and he gave me roses and
chocl that I thought that was corny. Yeah, And I

(17:43):
was like, what is going on and why did he
pull up here in this car like that? You know,
I'm not recognizing the gentleman and him and that is
the way a lady should be treated. I just thought that,
you know, he was like too old school for me.

Speaker 1 (17:57):
It's what I thought, Well, you probably didn't have the
self worth to that someone could just love you and
be good to you.

Speaker 2 (18:02):
No, And I remember the first day we went to
we went it was during the Olympics that Bennie Hannah's
in Atlanta. Okay, they were fairly new. It was super crowded,
and when we got there, they said that there would
be a weight and that he and I could sit
at the bar. And he said, well, it's gonna be
a wait and we could sit at the bar. And
I was like, okay, and I'm thinking of I said, Lord,

(18:22):
have mercy. They said it's gonna be a wait, and
I got to sit here and talk to this man.
This is crazy. And so I get at the bar
and I sit and no, Lie, we had a drink
and we were just chatty chatty, chatty, chatty chatty. They
finally called us for our table. And you know how
Bennie hannahs, you sit with all these people when they
do this littlebachi, the little habachi thing in front of you, right,
And I didn't know what to order, and he said,

(18:45):
I'll order for you, and he did and we had
the best freaking day. We talked the whole time. I
remember leaving out of Bennie Hannah saying that was a
nice day.

Speaker 3 (18:56):
Nice.

Speaker 2 (18:57):
I always credit Greg for teaching me how to eat dessert.
I never went to a restaurant and they said, would
you like to see the dessert menu? And we would
always say no, thank you dessert men. And he was like, yes,
let's to get the dessert because.

Speaker 1 (19:09):
You wanted to spend more time with you you want
to spend.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
But he always was a dessert guy.

Speaker 1 (19:13):
I'm a dessert person.

Speaker 2 (19:14):
So we had a dessert. I remember getting back in
the car thinking that was a great day. How old
were you I met Greg? I was twenty eight and
how old was he? I know he was like forty one.

Speaker 1 (19:28):
Oh, so it is a different thirteen okay, it was
thirteen years different. And then we were off to the
races or no.

Speaker 2 (19:33):
We were not off to the races. He said to
me the next day, he said, would you like to
go out to lunch? And I was like, okay, sure,
And I was just thinking I was going out to eat,
like I just want to go eat all the time, right,
And he said to me one day at lunch, he said,
you know, girl, one day, you're gonna be my wife.
And I said it is not possible, sir, like I

(19:53):
will never be your wife. Okay, let's be clear, and
he was like, you gotta marry you one day, girl, was.

Speaker 1 (19:59):
Was he the love your life?

Speaker 2 (20:00):
He was the love of my life. Like I tell
everybody this, I don't know that I will ever experience
this type of love ever again in my life. I
think I have experienced the ultimate love, and I don't
think that you experienced that, but once in a lifetime.
I don't think there's anybody else out here for me.
I did not like Greg. In fact, I thought he

(20:21):
had all nice shoes. I did not like his pants.
I did not like anything. Honestly, when I tell you,
that man charmed me. He told me like knowing him,
like two weeks in he said, you remind me of
my mom, and you're gonna be my wife one day.

Speaker 1 (20:36):
And like, wow, that is beautiful.

Speaker 2 (20:39):
I said, there's no fucking way he has lost his mind.
I'm not gonna be his wife.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
And sure enough you were.

Speaker 2 (20:45):
And I was six months into dating and we got engaged.
Really six months one year after dating, we were married.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
I was thinking today and the many thoughts I've had
about you. What would he have told you if you
asked him if you should do this today? That's what
I was thinking.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
You know, I believe that Greg would have been probably
fifty to fifty ft I know him, he would And
the reason why I say that is because he will
be thinking to hisself. Greg likes to keep the peace.
I don't know if there's gonna be a problem, what's
gonna happen. If he knew everything that was happening right

(21:20):
now today around me, he probably would be fifty to fifty.
He probably would be like, I'm not sure.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
And maybe that's difficult for you that he was your
sounding board and you're gonna do all this alone. The
biggest thing that's ever really happened.

Speaker 2 (21:32):
Is I've needed him so much since he's been gone.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
You know what I mean, Like, this is some big shit.
You're dealing with big girl shit, and we're older now
and we're thinking, we're reflecting on our lives and what
the meaning is and you've been through it, okay, So.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
You know what I would tell him right now is
I would always laugh at him because he always wore
glasses and he would be squenching hisself. One of these days,
you're gonna be squenching your eyes like that too, and
you're gonna need some glasses too. And I have to say, Greg,
I think I need a glass. The day is here already,
the day is here. I'm starting to squint.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Well, I don't remember how you and I first met.
I remember one time being in Atlanta, on us having dinner.
I remember us doing a whole plane ride together, presumably
from Atlanta, and I remember a couple of things you
said to me, which will be interesting, and I then
I haven't spent that much time with you. I've always
just admired you from afar. On the plane, you said

(22:23):
to me that you can only ever oh sorry. And
the third time I saw you, you came to an
event that I was doing with two of your girlfriends,
and you said to me, and you were the new
girl in town. You were in the new show in town.
This is crazy, you guys. I was on the New
York Housewives. Atlanta and Jersey came later. We thought, oh
my god, what a dumb idea. You know, there were

(22:44):
new people coming in. We were probably wanting to, you know,
be protective over it, and we didn't understand it. And
Jersey came in, and Atlanta was coming in, and Nini came.
I invited her. I don't know why or how we
knew each other, but she came to an event of mine,
a cocktail event. She brought two girlfriends and she said,
I have to leave them here with you because I

(23:05):
have to go be Andy's date for a party. Because
she was the new shiny toy. You were the new
popular girl. We were ready. I was, I had dust
on me. So you left your friends with me at
a party?

Speaker 2 (23:17):
You know right? No, I went to Anderson Cooper's house.

Speaker 1 (23:22):
Oh, you were the new shiny toy. I was. You
left me with your friends. I took your friend. How
funny is it? I took your friends to three places.
One was a hamp one was a Gotham magazine party,
and Beyonce performed for like two hundred people. They thought
I was the coolest person they ever met. I didn't
even know she was gonna perport, but I took them Beyonce.
It gets on stage, and then I take them to
a club, and they will verify this. I take them

(23:43):
to a club. We get to the front and the
guy at the front won't let us in, and so
we go inside to STK and I'm pissed off. We
go inside and I'm like, I'm fucking pissed, and they're like,
don't worry about it, We're having funny here. The music
stood here, and I'm like, no, I'm pissed, and I
tell now the owners of the place, and I say,
you're not gonna let me dance air? And we walked

(24:04):
back the front and I started cursing the guy out
in front, and so, you're gonna fucking let us in here?
And they let me and your two friends in. We
go downstairs and I meet my ex husband, my daughter's father.
So I wish I live well. I love my daughter,
She's beautiful, but it was a challenging ten year divorce,
and I wish I listened to them to stay at
stk let.

Speaker 2 (24:25):
My daughter. We were together and I needed to go
to Anderson Cooper's house and I didn't want to bring
any guests with me to Anderson.

Speaker 1 (24:32):
You want to roll tight?

Speaker 2 (24:33):
Yeah, So I was like, Okay, I'm gonna go and
meet Andy. He's already there. And this girl meet her
husband that night?

Speaker 1 (24:43):
Is that insane? It was the tenth of June, Yeah,
because he was who was DJing?

Speaker 2 (24:49):
Was he DJing?

Speaker 1 (24:50):
Oh no? No, that was their tenth verse or you know,
he was just there and I was dancing and yeah, no,
So I met my ex on that night, which is insane.
But then on the.

Speaker 2 (25:00):
Into Anderson Cooper's house, he lives in that fire fire
firehouse department, and I thought it was so creative. I
was like, wow, so this is how you have to
get a house in New York City. You have to
buy fire department. And I remember he still had the
little thing in the middle of the floor, and I
thought it was just beautiful and creative. Well, he loved me.

(25:22):
It was so interesting, and Anderson Cooper loved it. Was so
surprising how him and Andy became friends because Anderson loved.

Speaker 1 (25:32):
Me, Anderson loved you. And you have to admit that
you were the favorite child at that point, right, you
guys were, come, what's.

Speaker 2 (25:39):
That the favorite? If I had to be honest, looking back,
I probably I probably thought I was the favorite. I
didn't see everything that was to.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
Come understand, but at that time, you were definitely I think.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
I mean I thought I probably was thinking to myself
from his favorite.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
I felt a little jilted, just I mean, if I
didn't know, I wouldn't know. But you were just like, oh,
my friends are staying here because I'm going with Andy,
and I thought, oh, interesting, Like my mind just and
I became the favorite at some point, and we all
and I often think about that, which we're definitely getting into.
But on that plane you said to me, when we
were on a plane together, you said, I only can

(26:30):
focus on one thing at a time. I can only
do one thing well at a time. Do you do
you feel that way anymore?

Speaker 3 (26:36):
No?

Speaker 2 (26:36):
I can definitely multitest. Are you kidding me?

Speaker 1 (26:39):
Does that make sense that you said that?

Speaker 2 (26:41):
Yes, but I can multitest. Now.

Speaker 1 (26:44):
I believe you. I agree with you.

Speaker 2 (26:45):
You have to. You have to.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
So am I allowed to ask about that you danced
and that that came out on the show. Okay, so
so explain that journey.

Speaker 2 (26:55):
You mean stripper?

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Yeah, So what were you doing in work overall?

Speaker 2 (27:00):
I was a single mom at the time and I
was trying to I had gotten away from the person
I was dating that was abusing me, and I needed
a job. And strip clubs are very popular in Atlanta.
It's a nude state where you can be completely nude.
I know a lot of states are you know, topless

(27:21):
or whatever, but not Georgia. And all the college girls
on my campus were dancing, and I thought I just
looked in a paper and it said new models. Well,
I used to model, so I thought, okay, well surely
I can be a nude model. Let me just go
and see. And it landed me inside of Cheetahs Strip Club.

Speaker 1 (27:42):
Is it a good one? Is it still there?

Speaker 2 (27:43):
That's a good one. It's not there anymore now, but
it's a very good one. Actually, Cheaters is still there.
It was the Gold club that wasn't there. And I
walked inside and I'd never done this before. I just
need to make some money. I was a single mom,
and they actually to see the house mom upstairs, the
house mom whatever. And when I got upstairs, she said

(28:06):
we had to take our clothes off, and I took
my clothes off, and then she said that we need
to go out on the dance floor. You know, they
gave us like something to go out and just let
her see us dance for a few seconds. Because I
know how to dance, you know how to move, but yeah,
but I didn't know how to dance like you know,
like being all sexy. I was like, okay, this is

(28:26):
some new stuff. So I'm looking around at other girls
and I'm learning that, you know, I need to get
sexy with it, and the rest is history. I ended
up being in the strip club lifestyle for probably a
good three years.

Speaker 1 (28:39):
What was that like? Were people respectful? Did you make
a lot of money?

Speaker 2 (28:43):
Like?

Speaker 1 (28:43):
What was I.

Speaker 2 (28:44):
Worked at really nice strip clubs, so you know, there's
some trashy ones and there's some that are really nice,
while all the girls are driving nice cars and the
men are really tipping. And I worked on day shift
a lot because I was a mom, a single mom,
and my son would be in school during the day,
so I would drive him to school, a private school.
I would drive him to a private school, and then

(29:05):
I drive my ass to the stripper.

Speaker 1 (29:06):
Did he know what your job was? So?

Speaker 2 (29:08):
He was very young?

Speaker 1 (29:09):
He was very young? And do you still do you
ever run into anyone? Do you speak to anyone you
worked with?

Speaker 2 (29:15):
I have run into a couple of girls that I
danced with in the past. But no.

Speaker 1 (29:20):
And isn't it funny that if think about all the
things when we were on reality TV that we didn't like,
mention and because you were probably ashamed and now you.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
I did it later tried. I want to say.

Speaker 3 (29:32):
No.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
It was on season one or two we had Derrek
Blinks as our photographer and we did these photos where
we were like I can't remember what he called them,
but you know, our one life and in our past life.
In my past life, I was.

Speaker 1 (29:48):
A stripper and you came out with it. Oh you were,
I do some reason. I thought it was that someone
said something and you felt like you had to bring it.
You brought it into.

Speaker 2 (29:56):
No I talked about it and did it on a
whole thing. I always kind of own did because honestly,
the truth is, I kind of really liked it.

Speaker 1 (30:03):
I've always been intrigued by it. I kind of really
liked it.

Speaker 2 (30:06):
It's the weirdest thing, but I really did like you
felt I did. And I actually could control a lot
of guys too, So I kind of liked it. I did.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
You were in charge. You were in control.

Speaker 2 (30:18):
I wrote about it in my book. I think maybe
around season three I wrote a memoir and I talked
about my life as a stripper, like I kind of
always talked about it because it taught me a lot. Honestly,
it taught me a lot. I could finally, for the
first time, pay my rent and my light bills, and
I have to ask anybody in charge. George, I got

(30:38):
me a new car from the Strip Club. The strip
Club actually really helped me a lot.

Speaker 1 (30:42):
So where did you go from there? Like? What was
your next job?

Speaker 2 (30:44):
And how did you my next job? Craziest thing is
I had met my husband, met Greg. I had started
working for Lang Coomb Cosmetics inside of.

Speaker 1 (30:54):
Macy's doing people's makeup, no selling makeup. I'm still around, Yeah,
of course like that. So they have a great Underie
Concealer and.

Speaker 2 (31:05):
Lancomb Yeah of course. So I started working for Lank Home.
I worked inside of Macy's and I kind of moved
around the department store on the bottom floor doing perfumes,
doing makeup. Very social, yes, And when I met my husband,
my husband was the breadwinner and he kind of took
me from working period.

Speaker 1 (31:23):
So you weren't really a career woman then, Like you
weren't that driven. You were driven, but you didn't know
what you were moving towards.

Speaker 2 (31:28):
I didn't know what I wanted to do. Now. When
I got married, I knew I wanted to be an actress, right.

Speaker 1 (31:33):
So you did you want fame or you wanted to
be an actress or they want to being together?

Speaker 2 (31:37):
I never thought I never thought about reality TV. I
only thought about I'm an actress. It didn't really exist
and I wanted to be an actress. So once I
got my husband and I'm sitting at home and I
don't have anything to do, I started taking acting classes
in Atlanta. In Atlanta, okay, Nick KNTI, hey, how are
you doing? Our acting coach? And so I took my

(31:58):
acting class and my husband would pay for them, and
I don't my husband never thought for one second that
I would make it.

Speaker 1 (32:04):
Okay, So what does that mean?

Speaker 2 (32:06):
I don't.

Speaker 1 (32:07):
I just not. I just think he thought it was
a cute little hobby you were doing.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
Yeah, I don't think that he ever thought. And I
would tell him that I want to go to Hollywood
one day, and I was dreaming of going to Hollywood.
I love the sunset sign that I would see like
pictures of I wish I could see that sign that's
as sunset. And I finally years past and my husband
was able to purchase me a ticket to go to
Pilot season in California.

Speaker 1 (32:30):
But how who's representing you? How do you know what
you're doing?

Speaker 2 (32:32):
Nobody was representing me. I was representing myself so perfect.
So let me tell you what I was doing. I
took headshots in Atlanta. I had a book that lists
all the agents. So I was stuffing in Beloved with
with my freaking headshot.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
And no one's But don't say somebody called you back.

Speaker 2 (32:50):
Nobody, you know what. I probably got one call, but
nobody ever really called me back. And I learned that
that was this thing called pilot season where you go
out to la and all these opportunities are there where
they weren't really there like that.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
So you have to be represented the only way. That's
how I got to I went to the Church of
Scientology because somebody called me back from the thing, and
I ended up at the Church of Science.

Speaker 2 (33:12):
So I ended up learning about this agency that used
extra pay you, I don't know, extra casting, and pay
us twenty five dollars or something to sit. So I
got a.

Speaker 1 (33:22):
Central Central Casting, Ye sacil cast.

Speaker 2 (33:26):
I became a part of Central Casting. They would send
me everywhere to be an extra, and I would sit
there and be like, I don't know why I'm not acting.
Why are all these people like I could do that,
I could do this, I could do that, I could
do this. And one day I met Robbie Reid Humes.
I tell everybody, Robbie Reid Humes changed my life.

Speaker 1 (33:44):
Who is that. Do I know her?

Speaker 2 (33:45):
Oh, she's a she's a female. She's a very big
casting director out in Los Angeles. He's a black woman.
She was casting all of the African American shows like Girlfriends,
The Parkers, that was with Monique and I think her
name is Countess or something, all of those shows. And
she was working with Ruben Stuttard. He was another big

(34:05):
casting director out there. And I was like, I gotta
get to them, and I gotta get to them. And
this is when I know that Hollywood was tricky. So
I went in. I auditioned. Robbie loved me, and I
auditioned for this big role for Fighting Temptations and it
was gonna be Cuba Gooding Junior and beyond Fight and
a lot of people in there, and she loved me

(34:26):
for the part. They called me back and said I
did not get the part. They loved me, but I
didn't get it. But they had an idea for me
to be guess what a.

Speaker 1 (34:33):
Stripper coincidentally or because they know they knew you're saying, I.

Speaker 2 (34:38):
Don't know if they knew or not, but the role
of a stripper. I was like, okay, So I ended
up doing that. I did. I took it. I ended
up being the little stripper really quick, a little part
where Cooper was walking into some nice spot and it
was me and a couple of girls on stage dancing. Man.
We said something like, hey, welcome to the I mean,
I don't know. And from that I needed to get

(35:00):
You have to get under five.

Speaker 1 (35:01):
Yeah, you have to get your line sag after car.

Speaker 2 (35:04):
That was the way they make you do a whole
lot more now to get it. And I really needed
to get it, and I was. I was so thankful
to Robbie Read for helping me to get I had
a sad card from that point on. Uh. She ended
up calling me to do a part in Girlfriends and
I just started doing little parts where I maybe had
one line or two words in the game. But I

(35:25):
was in the gang.

Speaker 1 (35:25):
And Greg had money to support you like he did.

Speaker 2 (35:29):
He was so Grant was doing really well for himself
and I was to stay at home, young, fabulous, beautiful
wife and so uh he flew me out to Los
Angeles and then I will fly back and I did
that probably for the next four years, and I never
do any thing well kind of sort of. Yeah, I

(35:49):
didn't get a dang thing right, I give a yeah
I did. But so I got back to Atlanta and
I said to myself, obviously, this is what I'm supposed
to be doing. I'm a housewife. I'm not gonna waste
my going back. Yeah, I got old, how old are
you at this point?

Speaker 3 (36:03):
Now?

Speaker 2 (36:04):
I'm in my thirties. Defeated, So I was like, I'm
not going to do this anymore. And the moment I
got defeated, that's when I met the lady who said,
guess what the real housewives are? Orange County casting director
is coming to Atlanta, Georgia. And I said, orange County.
I mean, this is Atlanta. Why would Orange County be

(36:24):
coming around? And they were like, no, no, no, I mean
they're looking for the cast in Atlanta, but it's gonna
be something like the Orange County Housewives, but they're gonna
call it the Ladies of Atlanta or something. And I said, honey,
you need to send them my.

Speaker 1 (36:37):
Way back because you didn't care what it was. You again,
send them.

Speaker 2 (36:40):
My way, honey, and she said, well they have to
you have to live behind gates. I said, oh, honey,
I live behind gates, okay, And she send the lady
to me honey, and the rest was history. I was
not looking for reality because I've always been a yeah.
But my whole thing was I'm an actress. I want
to be an actress. What are we doing?

Speaker 1 (36:59):
The door closed? You through the window? Yes, I had
to get.

Speaker 2 (37:01):
Through the Let me say you something about this casting director,
the lady who was doing it, and yeah, Princess Batten,
let me tell you I I blew her off for
probably a good two weeks. She kept calling why I
didn't really I didn't really I didn't really know.

Speaker 1 (37:19):
You know, you didn't understand what the medium was and.

Speaker 2 (37:21):
I don't really know what the whole reality how that
was going to be. And so she said, you know,
are you gonna take this meeting or not? You know,
And that's how we kind of She kind of got
rough with me, like on the last phone call, and
I was like, okay, girl, you can come tomorrow, and
no joke.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
So you were one of the first ones cast on
that show, for sure. You were the first one.

Speaker 2 (37:42):
Yes, okay, I was the first one.

Speaker 1 (37:44):
Okay, So now you enter into it, and do you
think you're on something hot? You think this is gonna
be a thing.

Speaker 2 (37:51):
No, I thought I remember all of us girls getting together.
I remember, listen, I know this story like it was yesterday.
I say to Princess, Princess Lee's my house, she called
me before she gets out of my gate, she said,
who we love you? Who are your friends? And you know,
I started naming everybody. Charae wick Fields, these were your
real friends. Yeah, Me and Scharay and Greg and Bob.

(38:12):
We were all good friends. Okay, Yeah, her husband was
playing in the NFL at the time, and so we
would go with Charay and Bob to the game a lot.
So I said, Charay would feel Kim Zosiak and Kim, Well,
Kim and I lived. I lived in the neighborhood across
the street from Kim at the time. We ended up
living in the same neighborhood, but at this time she

(38:32):
lived across the street, and our children, my baby boy
and her daughter went to the same like little daycare
in the neighborhood.

Speaker 1 (38:38):
And she was single dating not God Big Papa, but single.

Speaker 2 (38:42):
Actually when I met her, she was dating a different guy.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
Okay, but you really liked her, like she was very cool.

Speaker 2 (38:47):
You know what. We had the same trainer at the
gym too, and I was very interested in her because
when I would see her at the gym, she would
have a big blunt wig on. She would have a
cigarette and who the fuck is on the tree with
a cigarette and you know, walking on the trip and back.
At this time, this jogging suit was real popular, called juicy.

(39:08):
Yeah you remember that. She had color, yeah, bloors, she
had every color. And I would be so yeah. She
would walk in with jewelry and this blrd juicy couture
thing on.

Speaker 1 (39:20):
So she was rocking that like you're not at the camera.

Speaker 2 (39:23):
She was just and I would be looking at her
like this is an interesting white lady? Yes, And I
just never get over because actually, you know, I'm a
black ger. I never really saw white.

Speaker 1 (39:33):
Women with is it an interesting white lady?

Speaker 2 (39:36):
Is the white a wig on it? And I never
know white I don't really see white women with wig
on like that. And the the gym, the thing about
it is it looked like a wig to me. So
that's why I was like, Wow, this lady is really interesting.
She has a wig, a juicy couture sweatsuit, a lot
of jewelry. You know, she's a lot of things. You

(39:57):
pull up in a nice cloud side and your kids
are all dressed up with.

Speaker 1 (40:01):
Two tools and just the whole thing.

Speaker 2 (40:03):
This all kinds of stuff on. And I would be
so interested in her that I talked to her one
day and me and her kind of hit it off
from talking like that, and I when the producers would
come down to talk to us about this show called
The Ladies of Atlanta, I said to them, I have
this white lady I want to introduce you guys to
and they said, no, this is going to be an

(40:23):
all African American cast and we're not interested. And I
said to them, you really need to meet this white lady.
This is a different kind of white lady.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yes, and she is a different.

Speaker 2 (40:32):
And so they were like, they really weren't interested, and
we were gonna have We were all meeting in Atlanta.
They were flying down Brian Hale, Hey, Brian, Hey, Brian,
it is And so I said, I want you to
meet her. I'm gonna bring her to the lunch. I
beg him to go to the lunch. She came to
the lunch. Seriously, these people were gun hole on this
is going to be an all African American cast. The

(40:53):
moment Kim walked in that room, they were just like me.
They were like, wow, I'm telling you five minutes and
they were scratching their head.

Speaker 1 (41:00):
But you know that, Like I mean, and I know
that you've had your ups and downs with her, but
like you have to be grateful that you did bring
her in because the two of you made each other better.
I mean, you guys together. Let's you guys were Jill
and myself like, you guys were.

Speaker 2 (41:14):
I knew she was gonna be good. You guys when
they saw Kim, oh my god, they were like, honey,
but now we can't even down.

Speaker 1 (41:24):
So we're so so so she was your good, good good.

Speaker 2 (41:30):
Not good good girlfriend. She was just, you know, a lady.
I knew it.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
But then you start to nurture it through the show
because nothing is real. You're living two worlds. That's me
and Jill. You're nurturing a relationship that's all about the show,
and the audience is seeing you become closer and closer,
and there's no other way to do it because you're
on the battlefield and you need someone next to you.
And that's why it's challenging when audiences say, oh, but
you guys were best friends, but the show needs you

(41:54):
to be best friends. Because they won't cast if you
don't seem like you're best friends.

Speaker 2 (41:57):
As Kim came in with her cigarette and hung garment,
she these she says, it was so many things. Those
people were looking like, we have to have her.

Speaker 1 (42:09):
But were you very close? Would you call yourself close
or were show friends?

Speaker 2 (42:13):
I think I would never say we were very close.
I would say that we were very cool.

Speaker 1 (42:19):
Very cool. Do you regret going to the Mattresses with
her on the show?

Speaker 2 (42:24):
Uh? No, I can't say that that.

Speaker 1 (42:26):
Is because do you feel that I always say that
the show, it's a zero sum game. Someone always has
to be winning and someone always has to be losing.
So you are either getting killed or killing somebody. There's
really very little middle.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
That's very good.

Speaker 1 (42:41):
It's the mafia. Yeah, you're killing or being killed. If
you're not. If you don't know who's getting whacked, you're
getting whacked. Yes, So it's so you know, I had
a makeup person here today doing my makeup and he's
good friends with Tinsley, and I was saying I really
liked her, which wouldn't be evident by the show, because
she was you know, she was a fine house. I
have a nice girl, but it's called get out of

(43:02):
the way. The grown ups are on the battlefield, and
that's the way the game is played. So it's very
difficult for the audience to understand why you have a
friend and then you don't have a friend, because if
there's something that somebody has on you, they're gonna fucking
bring it to the center of the table because that's
what the game is.

Speaker 2 (43:17):
That kind of sucks.

Speaker 1 (43:18):
Yeah, am I wrong?

Speaker 2 (43:19):
You're right?

Speaker 1 (43:20):
Has there ever been anything not brought to the front
of the table?

Speaker 2 (43:22):
Everything? You cannot share anything with any of those girls
or have any secrets. Now you can have any secrets, right,
so do you did?

Speaker 1 (43:33):
So? What about fame? What about money? You're coming on
the show? That was the beginning when we started too
and you were wearing a normal clothes. You didn't know
that you're supposed to be in a photo shoot every
day once in a while, you get hair and makeup.
But I was sitting there in my raggedy clothes and
all of a sudden, the game starts moving quickly and
it gets glamorous and like you're competing, And so what
about the money, the cars, all that shit? On the show?

Speaker 2 (43:54):
I was the underdog, like I was the underdog because
Ray was married to Bob and he had money. He
was a football player, him was dating Big Papa and
he had all this money. Deshaun Snow was with Eric Snow.
He was an NBA player, you know, Lisa Wool was
married to a football player. And my husband was just
a regular executive king. You know. No, I didn't find

(44:20):
I didn't. I didn't feel poor because we were living
very nicely. I was the underdog though my husband didn't
have the money that these guys had got it and
we were definitely the underdog.

Speaker 1 (44:31):
But how did that affect you? How did that field?
You feel insecure about it? I did something.

Speaker 2 (44:35):
I did it. I just knew. I don't know how
I knew this. I knew like two weeks into shooting
that I had to be myself though that's the only
thing I had. And I said to myself, I feel
like every.

Speaker 1 (44:47):
Time I feel like every thought about it, you want
to show you, I'm going on, I'm.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
Just gonna just be me because this is not working.
Like I can't pretend to be somebody else. I'm gonna
just have to be myself. So I just kind of
went in like being myself I did not know that
that was gonna work for me. Now, mind you, these
girls are wearing designer everything, and I am like girl,
I am just with my few little pieces. I don't
have the pieces that they have, and my few little pieces,

(45:15):
we're gonna make it work out. Lo and behold. I
really think that they thought that they were going to
be the real popular ones when I look back on it,
but they were not.

Speaker 1 (45:25):
You were the bust outside the yes, And I.

Speaker 2 (45:28):
Think because you know why, I think because I was
regular kind of. I was the underdog, and I think
everybody liked me because I was the underdog.

Speaker 1 (45:37):
But did you believe into your own did you believe
your own bullshit? Did you buy into it? Did you
like take it to the next level and get because
from you think you did?

Speaker 2 (45:47):
No? No, no. If you're saying, did I get glam
and all that kind of stuff, yeah no.

Speaker 1 (45:51):
But there was a drastic change in original Nini, and
then all of a sudden you moved into rich bitch
and the cars and the glitch and everybody's game started
to elevate. And it looked like a lot of pressure.
Like I look at Beverly Hills and I feel pressure.
I would not. I would be like Denise Richards showing
up on the balcony in pajamas, where you guys were

(46:12):
elevating the game, and every week it was a new
hairstyle and a new handbag and a new car and
a new show, and it felt competitive, a competitive sport,
the Bentley's and the cars. And I would say that
African Princess.

Speaker 2 (46:23):
Yes, I would think that it was somewhat competitive. In Atlanta,
everybody has a big house. I mean it's Georgia. I mean,
so everybody can, right uh. And it's a lot more
affordable to live in Georgia than it is to live
in New York, you know, so people can't afford a
nice size house, right uh. And I think that Cambs
with Big Papa, he was given everything. I just think

(46:44):
that it.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
I don't know, you felt a pressure to be rich?
You felt a pressure? Yeah, I could see. I could
see that. And then also the cameras at everything.

Speaker 3 (46:52):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (47:05):
So now, looking back, do you feel that I often
say that the situations that are the interaction is real, yes,
but the circumstances might not be real. So it's not
that you're necessarily friends with these people and having these
conversations and do you think that do you feel that

(47:28):
it's real? Do you feel that it was real? Do
you feel that it changed, because I have a feeling
when it changed in my mind, but I want to
hear it, so.

Speaker 2 (47:34):
I will tell you. When we entered season one, it
was real. Everything we said and did was real. The
way our relationships fell apart were real. There were no
we Me and Kim fell out. We really fell out,
like we didn't make that shit up, Like we really
bombed heads. Me and Chary really bumped heads.

Speaker 1 (47:55):
But why was it because of the show? Would you
have bumped if it weren't for the show?

Speaker 2 (47:59):
You know, Mi and Cherai were already bumping his hands
before the first camera ever even oh okay, we had
already started like falling out. Okay, So it was really real.
Its really it was really well real, And I think
for us, I feel like the relationships started changing. The
stories to me, like four or five season four or five,

(48:22):
we were real. I often look at them and say
that everybody on there is making sit.

Speaker 1 (48:26):
Up now and storylines and what they're doing.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
That's that way.

Speaker 1 (48:31):
But don't you think it's also because the game has
been elevated every photo shoot has happened. Every leg has
been thrown, table has been flipped, and they've seen all
the previous seasons now when they come on, so they
feel like they have to do something.

Speaker 2 (48:42):
They do. I'm telling you, when we entered, we were
so good because we were real.

Speaker 1 (48:48):
It was I mean, you know, it was my favorite show.

Speaker 2 (48:50):
Authentic is I don't know what we were real?

Speaker 1 (48:53):
I know.

Speaker 2 (48:54):
And so now everybody has a fake boyfriend, a fake everything.
Everything is fake everything, and they have all these stories
they made of I don't know even know how it
came up with them.

Speaker 1 (49:02):
Everything is faked. You do you feel so? I've spoken
to a lot of women on a lot of different shows,
and they've taken antidepressant. The pressure gets to them, the media,
et cetera. Did you ever go really low while on
the show in that way? Did you ever feel like.

Speaker 2 (49:20):
I was on camera going low a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (49:23):
I mean, before the Greg stuff and before the later.

Speaker 2 (49:27):
If you remember, I can't I can't sometimes I can't
call the seasons. It may have been season five or six.
I was we I just know we were at the reunion.
I was in all white. Doctor Jeff had come on
our show.

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Oh, I remember I.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
Felt it was a lot going on with all the
girls were ganging up on me. I felt a lot
of lot of pressure, and I really felt low at
the reunion. I think I got up and walked out
for the reunion. Doctor Jeff was there to try to help,
let's get through it. I think there were a couple
times and after that, Yeah, the other time was my husband. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (50:02):
Well, when you broke up with Greg the first time,
do you think that the show played a part in it?
Do you think that the show had a negative effect
on your relationship.

Speaker 2 (50:11):
I have to be honest. I can't say that the
show was one hundred percent for me and Gregg's manience
because we were together long before I walked on the show.
We fell apart because we were falling apart. Honestly, the
show did not help because I felt like my husband
started feeling It's crazy. I know, I know it's crazy,

(50:33):
but my husband started feeling really intimidated about me having
my own money.

Speaker 1 (50:38):
Oh, interesting, that's a dynamic.

Speaker 2 (50:40):
He really was not here for me to have my
own money. I never saw that in him.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yes, because you never had.

Speaker 2 (50:48):
So, I mean, I didn't need him to ask him
for a bag or get my hair done or anything.
And I feel like my husband got really intimidated about that.
He would actually walk around and be like, she's gone Hollywood.
He is really trip oh, like this is my own
He didn't like that at all. My husband was a

(51:08):
man's man. He was the kind of guy who provides,
and he liked providing, and it made him feel good
to provide, and it made him feel good for me
to need him, and I kind of no longer needed
him financially.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
You know, did you go Hollywood?

Speaker 2 (51:22):
I don't think I went in Hollywood. I felt like
I just had some money. You were evolving, Yeah, And
I was with him since I was twenty eight, and
I just think that I was my own woman now
and I had my own money. I still loved him,
but he was not happy about me having my own money.
I will say that I did have more control or power,

(51:45):
if you will.

Speaker 1 (51:47):
So, do you feel emasculated?

Speaker 2 (51:50):
You know what? I've been asked that before, and I
feel like I may have done that to him a
couple of times.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
I got that you're strong, You're strong.

Speaker 2 (51:56):
I feel like I may have done that, not intentionally,
but looking back, I may have said things to him
that was like, I don't know, probably because I had
my own money, and I probably was like, you know what,
I don't really need you like that, sir?

Speaker 1 (52:14):
How did you get back together?

Speaker 2 (52:15):
Whose choice was that crazy thing? He moved out. He
moved out probably about a mile or two miles from
our house, and I would drop my son off when
it was time for him to have visitation with his
dad and Greg and I wasn't speaking. And how we
ended up speaking is I dropped Brent off one day

(52:36):
and I was picking him up and he said he
got in the call me. He said, my dad said
to tell you hi. And I was like and then
he was like, he's in the window. He's in the door. Mom,
look my dad saying hi. And I looked and I
was like, boy, hi, And kind of from that we
just started talking.

Speaker 1 (52:56):
You missed him.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
It was kind of weird that he spoke to me
that day and I was like, boy, out of here?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
But was here? Was he more comfortable with your fame?
Part two? When he came back to the change, he
got more comfortable with the situation.

Speaker 2 (53:06):
I think he just kind of like became silent, and
I think he was like, oh, forget it. Whatever, Nini
is Nini now, And but he spoke to me, and
that kind of like all it kind of took I
did hear that he I knew he had a girl
he was dating. I went over there one night. I
wasn't supposed to. I mean, he wasn't my boyfriend and

(53:26):
we had already divorced. But I think I was feeling territorial.
I went by his place. I knew she was there,
and his house was dark. On the front of the house,
it looked completely dark. And something told me, walk around
the bag. Now, why in the hell am I at
this man house in the nighttime and they're in They're saying,
walk around the bag, And let me tell you why.

(53:49):
Because men are stupid. And so this is how this goes.
I call him from a restaurant and he and I
are talking left and right. We're just talking, talking, talking
for a long time. He says, I'm gonna call you back.
I mean we've probably been on the phone front like
a couple hours talking. He says, I'm gonna I'm gonna
take a bath and I'll call you back. Well, he's
probably drowned by now. He hasn't called. It's been like
two hours, like, what is going on? Where are you?

(54:09):
And I called he wasn't aunty. He wouldn't answer, so
a part of me was like, did he drown or
did somebody come over there? I think I'll drive over
his house. So I drove over there and in front
of his house was dark, and then I said, okay,
maybe he's sleep and then something said no. Girl parked
the car and get out, and I got out and
I walked around the back of his house and I
saw the light so in the back, and he had blinds,

(54:32):
and you know how the blind could be kind of
opened a little bit, and I he through the blind
and I saw him sitting at the bar with.

Speaker 1 (54:38):
A girl, and did you set the house on fire?

Speaker 2 (54:40):
I knocked on the door. I said, hello, is somebody
sitting there? And they went like quiet everybody, And I
was like, okay, okay, you're not gonna open the door.
He would not open the door. I went home and no, lie.
Maybe about an hour or too late, I got a
call from a number I didn't know. I said hello,
This woman said are you and Greg still together? And

(55:03):
me being the bad meaning that I could be, I said, yes,
we are still married. No, nor we are divorced. I
was like, yes, we are still married. And she was like, oh,
way good and I was like, girl, I'll get off
my line.

Speaker 1 (55:19):
And that was that.

Speaker 2 (55:21):
I was like, Greg, you better come back home now.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
Do you think you can sustain a friendship or a
relationship on reality TV?

Speaker 2 (55:27):
A healthy relationship, you guys have to be very very strong.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
What about friendships? Can you have a really strong friendship?
No way? Right?

Speaker 2 (55:38):
No way?

Speaker 1 (55:38):
I agree, Like it's.

Speaker 2 (55:39):
I don't believe that you can. I don't care how
strong you are in your friendship. The weakest link is
the one they're gonna get. Because I always say they
can't get me. Well, the weakest link they will.

Speaker 1 (55:49):
It's also the oh they'll always get the weakest link.
But also that many times it feels really strong because,
like I said, you're in battle together and you feel
like you and all you talk you notice you have
friends on the show. All you talk about the show,
next time we're gonna do a show, that scene we
just did, that scene, we're going to do the press
came out the reunion. It's all you talk about.

Speaker 2 (56:06):
You know. The thing with me and my friend ship,
Like I could give you an example, like from Marlowe for.

Speaker 1 (56:10):
Example, she's still friend.

Speaker 2 (56:12):
We're still friends. Oh, I mean we're you know, we're friends,
but the friendship is different now that she is a
housewife on the.

Speaker 1 (56:18):
Show while she's on and you're off.

Speaker 2 (56:20):
Yeah, so it seems like, you know, kind of like
you're not friends.

Speaker 1 (56:23):
She doesn't really want to talk to you. But I
think that's going on because the producers are telling her
not to tell you and lots to you know, be
friendly with me. So there's like a big elephant in
the room with half the things she talked about.

Speaker 2 (56:32):
I have to say. When we were on the show together,
she we were friends, and she knew that she wasn't
my puppet or whatever it is. And they would say
things like, you know, you're like you're kissing me me's
ass and and and she knew that wasn't happening, but
somehow they got into her head and she was like,

(56:53):
everybody thinks that I'm like kissing your ass, and I'm
not kissing her. And so she wanted to be like
her own because whatever, I don't know, they all wanted
to understand that it's designed for drama.

Speaker 1 (57:08):
So like if something's designed for drama and you put
a bunch of people together in a very stressful situation.
Alcohol always sounds like a great idea. Did you ever like,
how thirsty would you be? Like you're thirsty and you're
drinking alcohol, it seems like a great idea to get wasted.
You say something stupid, you say something else stupid. You
can't stop down. You're in your head about it. You
know six months from now you're going to live it,
and it's just it's a perpetual state of stress. You

(57:31):
get home, you get back in the car from a scene,
you talk to a producer who tells you whatever you
want to hear, but you're hearing the opposite thing from
the other person because they're being told whatever they want
to hear by a producer. And you do it all
over again for the name of fame and money, which
is why people are on antidepressants and anti anxiety.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
WHOA. I think also they are being It just depends
though they're they're definitely being told like if you have
a friend on this show, like you need to get
out of her ass and go do some be friends
with this person? They kind of I don't know, there's
just no way possible to have a friendship and be
on these show.

Speaker 1 (58:03):
That's what I'm saying. There's a whiteboard in an office.
If you see in the whiteboards, there's a board in
an office that says this one should go with this one.
And then they got to go talk about that. And
you're get in the car and they're reminding you, make
sure you tell Nini you don't want to invite her
to your party. And then you get out and you
have your market orders. But they've told Nini, make sure
you tell Bethany she's still with a younger man. And
everybody's got there. And then and then you come out

(58:24):
and we're battling, and and you're paranoid, and it's a
state of it's a state of anxiety. You're constantly you're
constantly battling. You gotta be winning, or you got to
be killing, or you're getting killed.

Speaker 2 (58:35):
It's what's going on. To be honest with you, I
don't even think it has to be that way. No,
I don't really think that. It probably would be better
if everybody just kind of just wins kind of. I mean,
you may need a little direction, but I don't feel
like they have to do that.

Speaker 1 (58:51):
Well, maybe a little direction. It's a whole. It's just
a it's a different animal now because it's also competitive.
It is so I think that the I think that
the r in the entire franchise. And by the way,
I explain that a franchise is like a Dunkin Donuts franchise.
Each store is managed differently, So Atlanta has a different
management team, and that franchise could be nice and perfect
and New York could be sloppy and dirty. Like everybody

(59:13):
thinks it's like one group just producing it, it's not.
It's different little production companies that are producing and that's
a different franchise. Z. So I say that they're all different,
but there are many similarities and many of the producers
go from one to the other. They're like a traveling
circus that go and move around and their job is
And the thing is, I talk about this and we're

(59:34):
going about to get into the reality reckoning, but that
it's the upside down because what's celebrated on reality TV.
If you tell someone to go fuck themselves and you
out them and you say something and it's really explosive
and it's going to change the season, you get rewarded
in every other area of your life and what we're
teaching our kids to do. In any other world, that

(59:54):
would not be okay. So if Jane drinks twelve Margarita's
and she's an alcohol and she went off the wagon,
the cameras come flying in and the producers are high
fiving because Jane fucking went off the wagon, which is
all they've been waiting for her to do. Anyway. So
when people say no one ever forced anyone to drink alcohol,
that's true. But by having it everywhere and by people

(01:00:17):
being sleep deprived and stressed and it be you know,
it being celebrated, it's an environment prone to drinking, screaming, shouting, stressing,
sleep deprivation.

Speaker 2 (01:00:28):
Yeah, I've never been told to drink alcohol. I personally
like alcohol, so they don't have to tell me. I'm
just gonna thank you drink.

Speaker 1 (01:00:40):
But don't you feel like you drank more doing it, because.

Speaker 2 (01:00:43):
I am probably probably, you know, I mean I learned,
because you know, you learn, you know, as time goes.
I've definitely been drunk on camera before, but you do
learn as time go on. Like I was like, we're
doing a scene today, okay, so I need to be
very conscious, honey, I will not have a drink. I
will have the drink, I will sit out of it,
but I need to be very conscious. So you learn,

(01:01:05):
you know, as you stay on the show, you learn
how to do it. Some people don't. Some people need
a drink to take the air.

Speaker 1 (01:01:12):
Yeah, no, that's fair, and I often did. I thought
it was a good idea. You and I are both
you know, we were we played the game very very well,
and we watched just like two athletes watching each other's
team play. I'm sure you've watched me play. I'm sure
i've you know, I definitely watched you play. And in
watching you play, I sometimes saw you at reunions double

(01:01:34):
down on being frustrated or furious and not like like
I said what I said, like you always stuck stuck
to it, but sometimes in a way that I thought
was like imploding, like it was doing damage to yourself,
like you could just sort of hear what people were saying,
absorb it, go a little calmer, a little gentler, and

(01:01:56):
instead I always watched you double and triple down, and
I thought, you're gonna make more trouble for yourself. You're
gonna make more like you're gonna add gasoline to the
fire and I wanna talk about that, Like your style
to me was like fuck you and fuck all of
you and I'll give a fuck what you say, and
that's what happened and that's it, and it would be
like no receiving of what anyone was saying. That's what

(01:02:17):
I saw something.

Speaker 2 (01:02:18):
I feel like, you know, I am the kind of person.
For me, I keep it real and it is what
it is. And I'm not really the kind of person
who backpedals. Now, I do understand that there's times when
you need to apologize for things because I may see
it one way, you may not see it that way,
and I need to respect how you feel. So I

(01:02:39):
do get that part. But I am the kind of
girl keeps it real. Now now I'm a different kind
of girl. Okay. Now now now I used to be
the kind of girl that keeps it one hundred, but
now I keep it about seventy.

Speaker 1 (01:02:54):
Because you're playing the game a little because you're a
little afraid.

Speaker 2 (01:02:57):
Right, and I don't think everybody wants one.

Speaker 1 (01:03:01):
That's so interesting because it's funny that you say that
we're going to get into the closet and all that stuff.
Because it's funny that you say that by the same
token when watching there's a respect that I have for
it in the way that you did keep it one
hundred because you're like, and we said it, can we
move on? Motherfucker? Like, there's something about that that I like,
you know, because I there's something about me. Because the

(01:03:22):
thing is about society today. Everybody fucking wants you to
be totally real, but they don't really because if you
really say what you think. If I say that I
thought that Taylor Swift was over the top a little
with the guy at the Kansas City City Chiefs game,
which I did, everybody says I'm bashing. I'm not bashing.
I'm just saying a feeling that I had in my body.
But you're not allowed to express You're not allowed to

(01:03:42):
have an opinion.

Speaker 2 (01:03:43):
You know. Again, you have to keep it about seventy five.

Speaker 1 (01:03:47):
Interesting, that's a great line. That's a great by the way,
you should like join that key. I'm taking it seventy five.

Speaker 2 (01:03:52):
About seventy five now, I think keeping it one hundred.
You can keep it one hundred with your very close circle.

Speaker 1 (01:03:59):
Keeping it seventy five. It's brilliant and it's a little sad.

Speaker 2 (01:04:04):
It is.

Speaker 1 (01:04:04):
It's a little sad because it's not okay though.

Speaker 2 (01:04:06):
Now I'm gonna give you a little bit real and
then I'm gonna hold the wrist back.

Speaker 1 (01:04:09):
That's a keep. Are you keeping it one hundred today
or seventy five?

Speaker 2 (01:04:13):
No, I'm keeping it about eighty two.

Speaker 1 (01:04:15):
Well, hopefully we're gonna go. We're gonna raise the fucking
grade because I'm not doing eight.

Speaker 2 (01:04:19):
I'm not.

Speaker 1 (01:04:19):
I don't get no, I ain't getting.

Speaker 2 (01:04:21):
No, no, no, I will keep it a hundred. But honestly,
you know, this is serious. A lot of times people
say they want to hear the truth, but honestly.

Speaker 1 (01:04:31):
No, by the way, I agree.

Speaker 2 (01:04:33):
I agree, because when you walk out, they're like that
was harsh, or she was mean, or you're.

Speaker 1 (01:04:39):
Weigh in on this. I want to hear what you
think about. Then you get canceled. No, I know it's
it's so now.

Speaker 2 (01:04:44):
You're just like, you know, I gotta kinda So this
is how you do it. If you talk about Taylor
and the guy I don't know a little over the time,
you say, okay for the game, she looks beautiful. This
is keeping it out.

Speaker 1 (01:04:57):
Saving But I'm massagin and wrapping and frosting. Yeah. No,
I know that's think I'm wrapping in frosting and divers
I know i'm keeping it ninety three. You know I'm
keeping in ninety three. I maybe I haven't been through
the same war you've been through. I'm keeping in ninety three.