November 10, 2022 • 56 mins
Bethenny is joined by award-winning actress Elisabeth Moss to rehash what went down on the iconic RHONY Scary Island episode— on and off screen. Scary Island got a whole lot scarier when the cameras stopped rolling.
Did Bethenny and Kelly Bensimon ever discuss their blow-out, the BTS of crab cake-gate, the Housewife that almost got the boot, and what it all has to do with Gwyneth Paltrow’s chicken.
Are you ready to go cuckoo for cocoa puffs?
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:04):
On the premier episode of Rewives, I had to start
with a bang, So today I'm reliving the Scary Island episode. Yup.
It is one of Andy Cohen's favorite episodes ever. I
remember like it was yesterday. It was a complete, crazy
shit show. It's one of the most iconic Housewives episodes
of any city ever, period story and film. At eleven.
(00:28):
It's the episode where the conflict between myself and Kelly
ben Simone really bubbles up to the surface. There are
complaint pads, photo shoots, gift bags, coco puffs, jelly beans,
gummy bears, sleep discussion, and a whole lot to talk about.
And joining me in this deep dive is Emmy Award
winning actress Elizabeth Moss, And this is why I'm obsessed
(00:50):
with the show. Nowhere else will you hear one of
the greatest actresses of our time have a serious conversation
about ho bags. This is one of my favorite podcast episodes.
I've We're done, and I hope you love it as
much as I do. Let's mention it all. Hi, Hi,
(01:13):
got so nice to see you and I'm so excited
about talking to you. Well, this is obviously gonna be
the most important work you'll ever do in your career.
I have to tell you, though, that I have done
more research for this podcast than I have done for
most rules. And it's not a joke. So when I
found out what episode we were talking about, first of all,
(01:35):
I freaked out, and it was like, I felt like
it was a personal gift to me from you. And
then I rewatched all of season three, including the reunions
and the lost footage, and then I kind of took
it into season four and then I was like, Okay,
I think we're good now, but I really have researched this.
(01:57):
My daughter believe it. I know it's not appropriate, she's twelve,
but like when I was immersed in season three of
Handmaid's Tail and she just saw some of it. And
you carry to carry a show like that only reminds
me of like Claire Daine's Homeland, like a woman with
the with the that carries such an intense, amazing show.
(02:18):
It's so good, you're so amazing. You're just really extraordinary
and rare, but more more important than the oppression of women.
I guess it is scary, scary, scary island. I feel
like there's there's a tie in there. Somewhere. Absolutely, there's
Gilead and there's Scary Island. They're the same. They're the same.
(02:41):
So you watched Housewives in real time in life, or
you were a person who found it later, or you
were back then, you know I was. I was back then.
I watched in real time, and then in later seasons
I would sort of lapse and then binge like two
seasons to three seasons back to back. Um, I've fallen
off a bit. I haven't been watching as much lately
(03:03):
because I've been kind of busy, although apparently not busy
enough to not rewatch all of these three in the
past few days too much. Yeah, And I guess there's
a message in this show, which is funny because to
be learning from the Housewives and me having conversations with
intelligent people about this show, which was an idea for
(03:24):
the this show rewives was because I wanted to do
some people were doing rewatches, and frankly, the truth is,
this is the truth. Paul said to me my fiance,
like people want to hear Tom Brady talk about football,
like they want to hear from him. So you've got
all these other derivative people that are sort of talking
about this garbage and they want to hear you, and
I'm like, but I don't want to go back into
(03:45):
the garbage dump. And you know, it wasn't feeling right.
Let's talk about housewives. So I thought, what if I
have an elevated conversation with smart, successful people about this,
because there are definitely things that you can learn about
dynamics from talking about the show. But still entertained, that's
how this show came to be. And I think it's
(04:06):
also interesting. I think Paul's absolutely right, and I think
it's also interesting to hear your perspective so many years
down the road, having had different life experiences, you know,
having become such an incredible success, how your perspective may
have changed on those events. Okay, so let's get into it.
(04:30):
We start about the hoe bag scene. You know, a
risk that you don't take in playing a character June Osborne.
You know you're not No one's ever gonna surprisingly call
you a hoe back to your face? Right? What was
I mean? You can very clearly see the reaction on camera,
But I have questions. I have more questions for you, go,
(04:52):
did you going into that experience did you think it
was going to be anything like what it would be
was suspicious that it was gonna be something like would
it ended up becoming or did you just go in
blind and think I have I'm going on this trip,
It's probably gonna be okay, maybe something interesting would happen.
How surprised were you by how scary it got? Well,
(05:15):
what's funny is the island of of St. John was
not happy, like the house owners always taking a risk
that we're not like this is a ship hole. But
it was great because it was a really nice house.
But the island is taking a risk too, that we're
gonna name it scary Island because St. John from a
branding perspective, doesn't want to become known as scary island.
(05:36):
It's always so funny, and I used to get it.
I'm I was not I was always on time, and
I always was like, you know, professional and and reliable
the most on time. But I'm not easy in the
sense that I don't just go along like, let's pretend
this is your trip, Elizabeth. You bought, you rented a
two fifty dollar house, and when we're pulling in on
the boat, you're gonna tell everybody this is the wonderful
(05:57):
gift you got for them, paid for are by a
Bravo and production company integration. Like it's so fair, Like
it's okay, we just all are on vacation together. We
don't have to Nobody cares to t for it. Nobody cares.
Thank you, thank you. But you don't know how the
fights ensued between housewives where one person will be like,
(06:18):
everybody wants to own the trip. I mean we don't
think it's a real hat. Yes, people want to own.
In this case, this was quote unquote Ramona's trip. I
mean she invited everybody, right, and she gets very very
very excited in a very funny and cute way when
she's revealing the house on the hill. Um, she's right,
(06:39):
so excited. So in this case, though, was she just
did she have the idea for the trip? Did she
what's the truth and what's the reality of it? Or
she just the reality is that, you know, and people
wanted to be their trip in the finale party and
like there's people want I don't want more work, I
don't want more want I don't I don't want more work. Yeah. Now,
(07:01):
so unless you're like it's your launch and it's you know,
it becomes like a bidding war, like if it's your
launch and it's the best pitch. So so everybody at
the beginning of the season sits down with the producers
and what's going on with your life? And I've got this,
and I've got that and most of the thing. And
people want to pitch my restaurant up. This is my
friend's restaurant. You know. Everyone wants to pitch where they're
gonna be by the couple of years. And I'm just like,
(07:22):
I don't just tell me where to be, but because
you don't want all the responsibility of all that, but
people like that. It's just the thing. So really, I know, yeah,
I'm not the producers just I mean I would. I'm
with you. Producers should just arrange everything and take care
of it. That's their job. Just tell me where to be. Well,
they take they take care, they'll they'll talk to each person.
And you know, I'm like, well, I'm taking a pottery class,
(07:46):
and I think it'd be really interesting if we all
go to the pottery class together and the producers fall
asleep because it's boring to watch people do pottery, and
then someone else is like, oh, I'm going to therapy,
So we could do you know, Oh, how about we
get you getting plastic start whatever that thing is, so
then you find out whatever, but he's got going on.
In some cases, they really want one person to own
the trips, so it'll be like, how about we renew
your vows Ramona, or she might have pitched that because
(08:07):
she wanted to do that. And then sometimes you know
someone really wants to go somewhere. Oh that's competition to wait. No,
we should be going to Turks and Caicos. We should
be going And Ramona, well, no one that's ever been
on reality television that I've ever met has loved those
trips more than remote. Like she thinks she's going to
real vacation. For me, it was torture, Like Derenda would
think it was torture. I would think, this is not
(08:29):
me really going to Morocco. This is me going to
Morocco on like a scheduled, shackled itinerary. But so Ramona
thinks it's totally like real vacation, and she doesn't care
she's getting to go to so she'll hard pitch her
places and wants to go where she's pitching. So sometimes
the people are pitching and winning, and then sometimes the
producers are pitching the places or they have a relationship.
(08:52):
We can get a villa here, we can get it
that there they have. You know, we were always the
step children, so we always had the shittiest budgets. Like
Beverly Hills is going to lave amazing places and we're
going to like de Moi, you know. So so I
used to like when we were going to Miami because
it would be like, it's not a vacation anyway, it's
two hours, not stop direct flight. Let me burn the
place to the ground again. I can probably don't need,
(09:17):
you know, I don't need to be on an eleven
hour flight to fight with people, like a fight with
them in Jersey. Just keep us trapped together. That's why
the burg Shears is great. And that's the thing is
if it's if the show is good, the content is good,
if the relationships are interesting, and then it doesn't matter
where you go. You can totally go to the right.
But riddle me this. An apartment that's a thousand square
(09:38):
feet in New York City could cost three million dollars,
and that's what a twenty thousand squarefret house in Atlanta
would cost. And where they live in the suburbs, so
you have to find stuff to show because we all
look like we're living like you know, I had a
four thousand squareft apartment, and I had the best department,
and it would be a house the size of you know,
Lisa Vanner Promp's house, but it still doesn't look the same.
(10:01):
So the Beverly Hills has a lot of the clothes
and trappings and cars and houses that do a lot
of the story. Like other cities, have to rely more
on the actual meet because we can't show a gorgeous
estate for long, you know, and have the entertainment of
just looking at that an expensive car. We don't have
the cars, we don't have the homes that are that
(10:22):
big because it's New York City. So that's just something
to mention to you think about the visual. The first season,
Andy Cohen called me the Greek Chorus because he felt
that I was sort of explaining to the audience something
that was going on, and I was like with them
in the narration unintentional narration of the show. So this season,
Kelly comes in and I meet her, and I had
(10:45):
met her previously and she had sort of acted like
she didn't know me unless I was with someone famous
or like there was just a nuance in the hampts
because I was a nobody who was like a guest
of a guest of a guest when she was more elevated.
So I had a pre existing feeling about her um,
but I didn't know her and I had met her
(11:07):
at different times. It was totally superficial. But when we
sat down at this meeting earlier in the season and
she was like, I don't put my name on anything,
because people come into this show and they want to
show everybody either how rich they are, how elevated they are,
how not like these trashy women they are, and somehow
water always seeks its own level. It just it ends
up whatever is gonna it's gonna be. So you can't
(11:29):
beat the game trying so hard. And I never there
was no game. I was just a person showing my
studio apartment. I bounced checks. I was like poor, it
was what it was. So she was coming in and
she was up here and I was down here, and
I had been feeling this stuff all season. But it
was like a Threes Company episode, that sitcom where like
(11:49):
things are happening in other rooms and no one's seeing
and you're like, no, this is a good this person
and they're like no, I think she's Swede and nor
you know, so you're seeing stuff and no one else
has seen. So this trip, we're trips. That's where trips
are good. All the ship pours out like whatever is bubbling,
it comes together and it all comes out on the trip.
(12:10):
So for me, I I was so happy at the
end of what we were going to discuss because I
was like, I told you all, this is what I've
been seeing. Yes, That's one of my favorite moments of
the episode is when you're like f you and F you,
I was right. It's so great because everyone has felt
(12:31):
that way. When you're like, see, she's crazy, and it's
very gratifying. You feel very like you feel with you
as far as like, yes, this is reality, this is
what's happening. This is vindication. So what's happening is that
you know in your normal life, like if someone and
on TV, if someone's calling you a hoe bag, it's
gonna be on television. You're one day gonna have a
(12:52):
twelve year old daughter that's on the couch when you're
watching and see that like someone called you a hoback
and said you slept your whatever, and you're in the
moment trying to keep your ship together because you're the
wheels are turning about the fact that that's like being
set to you because anything can be said to you,
and so you have very little I think, visible response
to her to that word, I think, and what Currantine
(13:15):
is like, Well, she's also engaged in pregnant, so this
is a very funny time to be calling her a
bag exactly exactly, and some people don't show this is
too tish. But she had a lot going on off
camera with you know, men and whatever. But that's not
the point of it. But you know, in a situation,
I don't know about you, but I'll talk about things
(13:36):
that are polarizing, but only like what they mean for society.
I'll never call someone a name, Did that make any sense?
Like I will character assassinate. I'll talk about like what's
the message in society or my opinion of someone's actions,
but I will be like that person's an asshole, Like
it's just it's low hanging fruit to to call someone
a name or sexually promiscuous, or a terrible mother or
(13:57):
a bad wife, Like you won't go like that personal
I feel I did once and I called her, I
called her a horse, So I have to take that caveat.
I took the bait or something that had been bothering me,
so that I did do that one time, but I
always owned my But I did do that, but I
don't typically and especially now, it's just not where I go.
I want to talk about the issue, you know what
(14:19):
I mean? How do you handle when you're called a
hoe bag? What are you going to do? Because you
could easily become wrong when someone calls you a ho
bag with what you do, people forget where it's started
based on a reaction. The fact that you didn't actually
really even reply to the hoe bag comment, which is
I think true. I don't think you really had that
much of a reaction at the time, right what what
is the right thing to say? No, I'm not a
(14:41):
hold yeah exactly, but I'm going to take the receipts
out of my vagina. Tell you let's really dig into this, Kelly.
But the fact that you didn't say anything to your
point of being able to receive language, received comments, receive
(15:02):
even criticism, and perhaps use it to your advantage. The
fact that you didn't say anything, just made the comments
stick out even more like the sore of thtuff. Thank you.
And in life, if you don't know what to do,
sit still. And I teach it to my daughter because
my daughter sometimes in school, something will happen and she
wants to get on the phone and say it and
text it. I'm like, first of all, everything in writing
(15:23):
is for the rest of your life. Second of all,
whole stay at keep the bus at fifty five, like
take a break. You know you don't have to get
every home run. Absolutely you take a second, think about it,
think about what you want to say, think about how
you feel, and reply thoughtfully, absolutely exactly. On the chef, yeah,
you know that was even that bothered me even more
(15:44):
for some reason because and it was bothering her. She
wanted to like take me down up here, I'm up here,
you're down here. Was bothering her than anybody might even
like use that word, like, I didn't think I was
John George. I went to culinary school, and I was
a natural food chef. I didn't say I was an
natural food cook. And the problem is, first of all,
if you're gonna take a shot at this, be a
better not miss, Like, you can't come in here with me.
(16:06):
You can't play checkers when I'm playing chess over here,
Like you just can't. So like, you better get your
act together, go do a thesis, come in here, have
copious notes, have a lawyer on hand, Like you can't
come in here because you're not gonna beat me at
the words game. So she's coming in and she's like, well,
you know you don't work at a restaurant, Like there's
a woman serving us our lunch here, and I think
you said at one point, I think you asked her
(16:28):
for explanation, what do you mean tell me what you
think a cook is and what a chef is? You
you asked some sort of like clarifying follow up question,
which is to to Andy's point about you being a
recourse is exactly how you feel as a viewer. You're like,
all you want to do as a viewers go what
are you getting? Like, what's the point? What do you
(16:48):
think a cook is? What do you think a chef is?
And what is what are you trying to say here? Right?
This is a thing. You notice this in I'm sure
you notice it in Hollywood and meetings and lunch is
like when people don't know the tem but sure the room.
And it happens with successful, smart people, like we're both
on the same show. She's an elevated woman in New York.
She was married to bet all the stuff I said before.
She's sitting at a table and she's not aware of
(17:10):
the temperature of what's going on. She's telling me I'm
attacking her, and we're all like, you're not in the
same meeting. We are, Like, what's what is that about
in life? Why does some people understand the temperature and
others don't have a room of a meeting, of a scene. Why?
I mean, I think it has to do a lot
with somebody just being too much inside themselves. They're not
looking out, not observing the people around them. They're not
(17:33):
in the moment, they're not being present. They're on some
path that they have pre sort of decided that they're
going to. This is what I'm going to do. Yes,
that's so smart. And as an actress, I remember taking
acting classes and it was Meisner where you you're not
supposed to know the punctuation or anything. You're supposed to
listen to the other actor and respond that way, versus
(17:55):
what you how you want to say ha ha ha
with a laugh. You know, you're you're you're actually, I'm
sure in scenes for you, you think it's gonna go
one way and then something happens in the moment or
someone drops something and you do it totally differently. No,
I don't know that all the time. All the time,
I think there's this there's this old thing of there's
three versions of the scene. There's the version you do
(18:18):
that you think you're gonna do, there's the version you
actually do, and then there's the version you do in
your car on the way home. Oh that's amazingly But
you're absolutely right. It can totally go it differently, And
I love that as an actor, just as a side tangent, right, Like,
I think that is where the joy is. That's where
(18:40):
it feels alive to me. That's where my heart starts
pounding and and you know the mic on my chest
starts picking up my heartbeak. That's where I feel like
I am fully you know, in the pocket as they say,
and the gift, Yes, like it feels like it's I'm
really really there and when you come in with okay,
(19:02):
this is how I'm going to do this scene, and
this is how I have decided this scene is going
to go, and I am going to say the line
in this way, and it's just going to do waning
that often is kind of just bullshit. And the best
version for me, anyway, is when you throw that out
and you're listening and you're reacting to the other person
(19:24):
who's now doing something in front of you that's potentially incredible,
and so you want to kind of give something back
to them in this in this tennis match, you know,
because you couldn't even the game is moving too fast.
There's no way you could even hold. Please, I'd like
to react to you in the way that I decided
I was going to do it yesterday, like it would
(19:45):
be that's how people are in their head. But that
was the gift of that scene, like me not being
in my head and be you know, just responding to
what was happening in front of me, like who could
prepare for that? You can? And the dinner and diner,
So it's not that different. I'm not even making a
joke like us. If you're true to the if you're
true and self aware, that's what I was going to
(20:05):
say to you. If you're self aware. You you probably
understand the temperature of the room better than someone who's
not self aware. And if you're true to the art
of what you're doing, even reality TV, that's where it's
like joy of the shell's joy. Sometimes it's just like
that was insane. And that's what's so one of the
one of the many, many interesting things to talk about
(20:25):
about that dinner in this episode is you can see
and feel the temperature change during the dinner. You feel
it change, and you can see all of you around
Kelly realizing the temperature is changing and going through this
trajectory of sort of confusion and trying to figure out
(20:46):
what she's saying and trying to clarify things too. Something's
run here and I think we need to actually back
away from this. This has gotten to the moment, yeah,
like yes, the lightbulb of like this is more serious
than we thought it was. And then just icely just
frustration and just you know, with the gummy bearers and
(21:07):
all of that. It was just like what you do
precisely for all of the things that are let's just say,
sort of interesting and surprising that Kelly does in this hour,
I felt like her reaction to the gift bag was
huge and very telling that something bad was coming, that
something bad was about to happen when I rewatched it,
(21:28):
which I did today again, by the way, because they
really wanted to be I'm telling you, if you know me,
if anyone knows me, they know I do very very
little research for any role. I'm not a method actor.
I'm very bad at doing like homework, like I'm not
like that. So I when I rewatched it again this morning,
her reaction when she opens the door and sees the
gift bag, she actually jumps. But I also couldn't tell
(21:51):
if that was pre sort of she was making that
up in the moment, or if that was a real
genuine reaction for her to jump when she opened the
door and see the gift bag and then she starts
crying on the bed, which did. I don't know if
it's about the gift bag or not, but I think
that she's aware that I'm marketing my brand under the
(22:11):
guise of a gift bag, and it's annoying her because
it's all about me. And what I will say about
housewives is it can be never about what it's about,
Like you can get frustrated and react in a different
way in a scene because you're dehydrated and you drank
three drinks because seem like a good idea and you
just wanted to have a drink to take the edge off.
And then and she doesn't, really she didn't, she didn't
drink a lot. I'm just saying like things can be
(22:33):
disproportionately played out because of something else that happened before.
You know, Ramona was always the best because Ramona doesn't care.
Ramona could literally say the most egregious thing to someone
and in the next scene hit a pinata and dance
like it's New Year's even clean up that mess two
weeks from Thursday. If I do something one word sideways,
(22:53):
I'm in my head about it later, So I don't know.
You know, Kelly probably realizes like this is getting out
of control and she can't sense what's going on, and
and this girl's here again, haunting me with this gift bag,
and it's an absolutely irrational, disproportionate response. But being fairness
to the genre, it's like things tick up, you know,
(23:14):
and then you're you're just you're just off, or it's
just you can't handle the game moving so quickly. Whatever
is going on and we're talking about the complaint pad
and then I, oh, yeah, I felt something. This is
something I noticed. We never was never really talked about
about the episode. There was a way do you ever
have friends who want to like shroud a compliment in
(23:36):
some sort of insult or instructive like Kelly. She told
Alex that she was channeling the devil, but she asked
this way to like, you know what, you're great, and
you know what's great, It's really great when you smile.
It's so nice when you which means like it's yeah, yeah,
like you know, or someone like you know, it's just
(23:58):
nice to see you like relaxed like this, like so much.
So she has this way of each time talking to
sound like no and it's okay, Sonja. I get not
as much as I used to, which is maybe not
a good thing. But um, when I was on Madman,
because my character was like, so it looks so different
than me, and she was, you know, it was the sixties,
and so we had this sort of grandma hair no
(24:19):
matter how old you were, if you were twenty five
and you had this sort of grandma woffed you know, hair,
and the costumes always made you look older, and um,
and I was much you know, I was younger than
I am. Yeah, but I would always get in person
people would say to me, you look so much better
in person, or you look so much prettier in person,
or younger in person all the time, yes, And I
(24:41):
always just want to say like, and I don't because
what's the point of getting into it? But like no,
I always say, like, do you know that? That's me too? Though,
like that, like thank you also me and and so
now I feel worried about how I look there. It's
such a funny thing. Yeah, I call it like it's
like a It's like an insult, shrouded and frosting. Yeah.
(25:04):
What I found about this season and maturing now is
that I feel like back then, alex and Simon was
strange to me, and I was a little like either
judgmental or didn't relate to Alex And and watching back,
I feel like she was mature and like she poised
and smart and like, you know, not like the coolest
(25:26):
girl of all of us. And I have a different
compassion and feeling for her, like an affinity towards her
when I watch back, Yeah, like when I watch back now,
I liked the way she was in this episode. I
like the way she handled when Kelly told her she
was channeling the Dell Devil, and she did sort of
back me up. Alough she was of sound mind, she
might have been a two sound mind for that show.
(25:46):
In wait, I that it's so interesting because I totally agree,
and having watch all season three again, I see that
through all the throughout the season that she is. She
may not be as quick with the with the one
liner sometimes, and she may not be as as brutal
or have sort of the ton and be able to
(26:07):
sort of spar like some of the women can on
the show in this like fascinating way, but she's absolutely
probably like the calmst and the most normal. Yes, more Tea.
She was going to be fired, and I told her
to deliver that message that they're discussing that which I
guess she was in like makeup that they thought like
(26:29):
kabooky makeup. I told her, like I knew the producers
that someone had told me, and I said to her
to tell that message to Jail because and I was like,
because I knew it would be like good moment moment
And years later, Sonja, one of the producers, I will
not say who in the car said, I think we
have to let Sonya go. They couldn't find she was
just a disaster and it was all about the bidet
and the lage. It was the on the loop and
(26:50):
all this stuff. And there was a scene at a
restaurant called Cherry, a sushi restaurant where I just light
a match about her and Tinsley, like where Tinsley started
out living in Sonya's town house and was basically a
nobody who had been like arrested and was living in
(27:11):
and how buy up to that point she had this
rich guy sending flowers and Sonja's like, you know, poor
in bankrupt. I said something to like stir that up,
and it like lit up Sonja and she launched and
she did not get let go. That is an absolute fact.
I have the receipt. Did they know this? I mean
the girls, they wouldn't have cared, they wouldn't believe it.
(27:31):
But the producers will back it up a thousand percent.
Alex was going to be fired that season and Sonya
was going to be fired later and I went in
and just said, I said to the producer in the car,
give me one night. And that was the night that
Sonya resurrected herself. I forgot that. I don't even think
Sonya knows that. I mean, she would totally believe me,
she trust me, But that did happen that I forgot that.
That's crazy. Yeah, it's totally true because it was so
(27:54):
out of character for Alex to go do that. And
she's clearly so. She is a great job. She certainly
delivers the message, but she's clearly uncomfortable doing it. But
she she knows she's got to, Like you believe it.
It seems different. It's like an outlier, right, Like it's
a funny outside moment where you're like, huh, and that's
(28:15):
the behind the scenes literally yea. But Kelly tells Alex
that she was channeling the devil. I just like that.
And I also like, I didn't go to the photo
shoot and they would always make you go now to
something like that, Like I didn't guess and it's okay,
Like different things happen. It's being real. I like I
used to say to one of the producers on my
own show Bethany ever after, when one of the people
(28:38):
was like, we're gonna have you in a big giant dress,
like Carrie Bradshaw on your bed and whatever, and I said,
let's do real, Like I just like doing real, So
I like that. I didn't go to the photo shoot,
and I really was with you on that one. I
was like, oh God, it goes to a photo shoot
on vacation. That sounds awful. There's a moment in the
episode where you laid down on this chair on that
(29:00):
sort of outside and you can just tell just speaking
to the realness, you can just tell like kind of exhausted,
like there's a lot going on, pregnant, The way you
sit down in this chair, it's just so real. You're
just I felt for you in that moment. I was like, oh,
it's been a long trip. I feel that all right. Well,
(29:26):
it looks like we're gonna be at the dinner now.
So I felt the pressure of cooking, which is weird
because I cook the crap as you volunteer, Did you
want to cook or where you asked? No. I think
they made this thing up of everyone's going to give
their gift, and I guess and that was giving, right,
and so mine was to do that. And the producers
are probably thinking, like they got the big white board
(29:46):
out and well, now we had that comment. So now
let's get Bethany to cook, you know, which is again
you're on this vacation and you're working, but you've got
to clean up what happened in that other scene for
them and for you, because you don't know what it
looks like the whole you're working as a off then
you don't make a lot of money. What if the
world thinks you're a fraud and you don't know how
to call like So so we cook and I picked
(30:07):
that simple menu and the crab cakes were amazing. I
made a lot of leftover. Ramona was obsessed with the
crab pack. She's she will talk about the crab cakes
of this day. And Ramona, like me, get cares deeply
about her food and she she eats well, she cooks,
but she's like cares about her food. So that night
off off camera and when the producers were like eating
their feelings and stressed out. And usually the producers don't
(30:30):
like get into our food our like Jacuzy, like they've
got their own thing, but it was a very outlier night.
It was crazy. The wheels came up, so the producers
all went into the kitchen and ate all my leftover
crab cakes, and Ramona had a ship it over the
crab cakes. She cursed out. She cursed out the crew
(30:51):
about the crab cakes. Asked Matt Anderson and Darren Ward,
because Darren Ward is very passionate about it, asked if
she did not have a ship fit about the crab cake.
I didn't leave a single one. I don't know if
I'm a cook going on promonas is like priorities. You
guys ate their grabs, Yes, your monster, and she meant it,
(31:15):
and I were like, and that's Matt Anderson and Darren
Ward ate the crab cakes. And they also they may
call me a chepherd cook, but everybody was eating my
crab cakes. It was definitely not a normal night. So
um so we started off with Kellie talking aloud. Oh,
she starts in on the salsas. I had to I
didn't remember that. Did you make the salsa like a derogation?
(31:39):
Because and by the way, I don't normally make salsas
like I like, I literally love toastino salsa. I just
have a weird thing. I don't usually make fresh salsas.
The pressure was definitely on. I don't even like mango salsa.
A trio of salsas like, who are you you fraud?
I don't ever make salsas press, so I couldn't believe it.
(31:59):
I made maybe the enormous amount of pressure you're in
there trying to figure out to read different. Never never
in my life. Besides, then did I make a trio
of sal says, who do you think you all? What
are you crazy? I'm not making a So I know
that I was feeling it because I saw that last
(32:20):
night and I was like, what the bitch made sauces?
I mean crazy, incredible? And then she seems to enjoy
the crab cakes as everyone did. Now she left it
on the plate. Oh that's right, what am I talking about?
But she says it was good or she said the
salad was good or something she she kind of throws
out like some sort of compliment about something. Yes, which
(32:44):
is good because Martha, now, Martha Stewart and Kelly ben
Simone have said that my sala addressings are extraordinary. And
I'm in the sala addressing business and I make a
good sound. So that's the rest of my life. I
will have Kelly ben Simone and Martha Stewart, two people
who despise me, have said good things about my dressing.
So literally only Martha and Kelly hate me more than
anybody in the world, and they both have said positive
things about my salad dressing. So then that would mean
(33:06):
if your biggest enemy, So that's good more than compliment
about you're dressing from a bread. Thank you, thank you,
I appreciate you. Yes, So she I like the term
now in current society that I didn't even know then microaggressions,
because I feel like eating one fifth of Maybe I'm
(33:29):
not I'm not Stephen Hawkins, but maybe one fourth of
a crab cake is a micro aggression. And who is
it that's very concerned about sending it back? Is it
Ramona or someone's rama and a very concerned about sending
it back? Now? Is she concerned about sending it back round?
And she just wants the rest of you? Well, it's
funny you say that because in the scene it really
(33:50):
looks like she's concerned about sending it back. It doesn't
track personality wise. But given crab cake gait that happened
later with the producers, we can never know. We can't
be very suspicious. And so and Sonya was lovely and
always is um here. Yes, now we get into the string.
You've seen those strings like around a tenderloin, and I
(34:11):
definitely did not mean that, but I was like, oh
my god, and it was hers was not very cooked.
So the one person who for some reason it wasn't
evenly cooked and there's a string, I'm dying inside. It
happened to me one time on another show where I
made a burger for Frederick on my barbecue and like
it wasn't cooked. And I'm very self conscious, not about
just cooking, Like if I do something, I want to
look at it. I want to be perfect as the
(34:32):
lighting okay is to me it's annoying that funny you're
proud of what you do and you want it to
be good. I wanted to be good. So that was
something that you're thinking your mind again, Like it was
much younger and I realized that like everything doesn't matter.
But I was much younger and was probably like, oh
my god, I'm gonna be thought of as I can't cook,
and you know, this is this is my career at
that point, that was my how I made my living.
(34:52):
So I was thinking in my head like this is
gonna air and it's gonna not be great for that,
and that was not that was sort of stressed. Of course,
So when are in the kitchen of all the people
that this particular piece of meat should go to, and
then when you're when you're in the kitchen, you are
very one of my favorite moments of the episodes. In
the kitchen, you're basically like, it's just a fucking dinner.
(35:12):
It's a fucking dinner. Who cares to dinner? It doesn't matter,
it's unimportant. So it's that kind of is that a
bit of an act because since I you were secretly
freaking out stress, right, you know, I I thought that
was sort of like I didn't know if it was
obvious or not that like I don't mean that like
I'm saying, tell you, I don't thought maybe like you're
trying to convince yourself it's not it's just dinner. It's fine,
but yes, well of course it's your lively because well
(35:35):
but no. But it's also the person has been saying
the entire someone saying to you you are a shitty actress.
I don't know that you're an actress even and I
don't you were in a high school play. I don't.
I haven't seen you in on Broadway, so okay, you
say you're an actress, you'd be like, yeah, so, um,
it was just a random outlier of a stick and
just didn't I definitely didn't have a meet thermometer there,
(35:55):
and I never want something to be overcooked, so I
probably took it off to you. I definitely took it
off to Earl and I wanted to be overcooked or
or don't. I don't remember, and what the grill was
and it's not my own wal and you know who
who even knows? And I'm not cooking all the time.
Maybe I'm a cook now chef, but um, and I'm
not always making steak, and god who knows. Now we
start to, like literally now we start to figuratively get cooking.
(36:17):
Now we start to get cooking. And there's a moment
not only when we all realized it had gone SI was,
but when I realized that everybody else realized what I
had been saying. It was like, I mean, I don't
know what was going on with her, and that's the
type of stuff I won't speculate about, but like her,
I feel like you're trying to kill me. And I
threw up last night, like what are we talking about?
It became very strange. There was the bed and by
(36:42):
the way she says something earlier when you guys are
on the boat, like nobody ever explains or talks about.
It's not brought up in the you know, one ever
says anything. Which is one of my favorite things, which
she says, statchels of gold. Please tell me you have
an explanation for that, because it gets every time I'm like,
what is it mean? I just want to know what
I means die. We definitely have to do a production
(37:05):
company together called It's just a great name for a
production company, an you know, it is never no Alright,
So here's the thing that I'm going to tell you,
honestly and why the show could have been maddening for Kelly.
And I don't remember all of it, but here's what
(37:25):
I think. So I think she thinks in these non sequiturs,
but doesn't isn't explaining like what she's thinking, Like there's
like the synapses are going off inside, but they are not.
I dreamed you killed me last night, like or maybe
that's something she did dream, but she's making it like
you tried to kill me last night. It's not saying
the full thought. And I'm giving her a lot of
credit here because I could just let everyone think she's batship.
(37:47):
But I'm going to tell you that I think the
first time I ever like show the skinny goll cocktail
was that this guy Robert Verity a stylist studio somewhere,
and maybe it didn't air. I think it did. But
when I saw her in the scene, it might have
been one of the first times I met her, or
she was there. I don't remember. I gotta go back
and look, but I think I said something about like,
(38:08):
uh yeah, and a leprecn is not going to come
out of a rainbow with a satchel of gold at
the end or something. I think I said something to
her at some point, And I also think somewhere along
the lines, and I don't remember saying this, and I
don't know I never talked about al Sharpton, so I
don't know what context it's in, but it's like the
way deep deep memory of my life that maybe somewhere
(38:31):
something I said something so she like brought it up
in the scene that I'm saying, you can't handle the
truth is from a few good men as you know.
But I think that maybe she thinks because I've referenced
al Sharpton somewhere else that I said, like I'm giving
her the credit for that. Those two things, you know,
they were like confused here we are, I don't know,
(38:52):
it's like these disassociated, disassociative thoughts. And she said something
about I of myself. Sometimes I never remember the things
that I say. So I'm watching this person talk and
like sometimes I laugh at my own stuff, and I say,
something's wrong with you? And she says, I don't, Like
I said, that's not an illness. Very good, it's very
(39:16):
very good. See, I don't think I played. I'd be
much more like Alex. I think so or something in
the in this In an episode like this, I don't
think I could engage on on that level. You're so quick, Um,
that's my level. I'm used to grow up with a
crazy like house and everyone loved. It's funny that the
more obvious lines of people love like your cuckoo for
cuckoo for Coco puffs, that to me, like everyone loves that,
(39:38):
and that's fine and funny, but that's not to me,
you know, watching it, like that's just a throw away.
You know, I think with the go to sleep, like,
I think I was just reacting, meaning I didn't know
that was going to be this iconic line, but it's
you're screaming for the audience in that moment. I look
at look at you. Wow, June. Okay, I like that
(39:59):
very and so you are. It's the Greek for it.
You are saying what we are all saying, because I
think if I'm not, she goes away and that's and
then she comes back, right, she comes back with the
gummy bears, and I think it's after that that they
go to sleep happens. And that is just how we
feel as an audience watching just we just wanted to
(40:23):
go to sleep. We just wanted to go and get
some rest and stop because it doesn't seem to be
going well, and she's gonna keep saying things and it's
going to keep getting worse for her, and she's going
to regret this tomorrow, and so there's a feeling from
her like she's being forced to stay and talk. But
that's not the case. Everyone else is like going to sleep,
(40:44):
and so that's why it doesn't feel vicious. You're also laughing,
you're kind of smiling when you say it, it's not
It doesn't feel like an attack. It feels like you're
speaking for the audience as far as like get some
fucking sleep. So what's happening now in the scene? And
this is again what I believe, but I this is
(41:04):
what it really is. So we're in the scene, you
are aware whether it's going well or not. You may
not know how not well, but if it feels weird inside,
So I believe that this is a woman who was
crying over the gift bag now at dinner and is
having some sort of agitation, some feeling, saying things about
channeling the devil and you're trying to kill me and
this stuff. So now you've got on some subconscious level
(41:27):
or conscious realize like this isn't going that well as
you said, So you can leave and know that the
format of this show is going to be for other
people to continue to talk about this. So if you leave,
you know that you're just going to be continually talked about.
So I my belief is that it was like she
(41:49):
tried to to leave but couldn't control the scene, Like
couldn't control what was going here. So so so I
had to like wanted to stay. It was like addicted
to staying in the thing and digging in deeper, and
it started to go really badly. And this is where
the fans, after hearing this will probably like demand that
Bravo releases the Trump tapes. Like this is where she
(42:13):
starts saying Matt Anderson as the producer, and she starts
with the gummy bears. And I remember, like it was yesterday,
and that's the thing, like I have, I literally built
a career on not forgetting a godsamn thing. Was had
the gummy bears and was going Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
Matt to stop the scene, but like repeally Matt Matt,
Matt Matt. Because it wasn't the days where Denise Richards
(42:35):
at dinner could say Bravo production and they would just
air that. Back then, that was breaking the fourth wall,
and you did not break the fourth wall, and you
did not air that there's a camera or a producer
or paparazzi, like because you've got paparazzi because of the show.
So it's too meta. Like now they'll just show anything
and show real and show a camera falling in Nini's
closet or something like that, do really talk. So so
(42:58):
then someone saying Matt to try to stop, like to
stop the scene. She was like, stop the scene, Matt, Matt, Matt.
He's like, I'm not going to stop the scene. So
what also never happens on reality television is that they
stopped the scene something was wrong, Like we thought that
something had gone wrong and it was way worse than
what was aired, so we stopped shooting. That's when everyone
(43:19):
started eating crab cakes and like, it was crazy. Stop shooting,
not right after the Matt thing, but like very very
shortly thereafter, like it had gone pretty clear. Yeah, pretty
closely after the Matt thing. Pretty closely it did work work.
I mean, it was crazy, but it wasn't like she
was just she wasn't just saying like production, but the
way that she's like, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
like it was further to what had been spiraling. So
(43:42):
we all were just a little unsettled. It was a
lot of stress because if you see the previous for
the next week, you see how Alex is crying and
she's like, we've all been through a lot, Like we
we were through a lot more than you saw, and
I thought I was positive she Darren Wore took her
on an airplane and he got to sit first class
(44:03):
with her, which doesn't happen. Producers don't sit on the
plane first class next to her to accompany her on
the plane, and took her home. And I was under
the impression that she would absolutely not be on the
show anymore, because I felt that it was irresponsible for
her to continue on the show. I was under the
impression that she was going home right now. Yeah, yeah,
(44:24):
But I was under the impression that that something was
going to happen. Yeah, that's the impression that I had
because what we had all seen, um and that happens
a lot. Like years later in Colombia, we are on
a horrible, horrible boat accident that we like literally almost died,
and it was weeks of meetings with Bravo that don't
make it to ship goes down and we're like that
was not accepted, Like so this was really something for
(44:48):
all of us. And so when I we were filming
next week and she was filming, I was like, what
where I was green and people hadn't yet gone to
prison and had fraudulent husbands and been having Hansi schemes
like it was early in the game. I thought that
this was not a reason to keep filming with someone.
But that's what makes these shows, I guess do well.
But like there's a line for me, and that was
(45:09):
the line for me. So how did you guys remember
how the scene ends on the show and the aired version.
I think it just sort of ends. The ends go
to sleep and it's like it kind of ends, and
then I guess you get us home the next time,
like talking about it, I guess after it just sort
of ends. So that's there's the note. Kelly leaves a
note saying I'm going to go home. Yeah, exactly exactly,
(45:35):
So that that was that. And also to give vindication
to Kelly, she's not friends with Gwyneth Paltrow and she
was asked by Andy Cohen on the show do you
know Gwyneth? Do you know Kelly? And Gwenna said no,
But I'm also going to put myself under the bus
and for to be accountable when she's like and what
you said about my friend Gwynneth years ago, when Gwyneth
was like cooking going on a tour with Mario Batali
(45:56):
when I used to say Synarchi things for the sake
of saying them. And I don't know why I said
I'd rather put hot pennies on my eyes than eat
a roast chicken. For Gwyneth Paltrow, I don't know why
I said it. I don't know anything about her roast chicken.
I don't know why I said it, just like I
don't know why I said it because I don't know
Gwyneth and I don't know what her chickens like. And
it probably was when you first started out and you
(46:16):
didn't realize that, like this is before Twitter, before Instagram.
You just thought you could just say something in a blog.
It was in a blog or something. I have no idea.
It just it makes no sense. So I'm just gonna say,
but that's also it's based in something connected to something,
if that makes any sense, because I want, yeah, wow,
so meaning? And I do I do? You know, well,
(46:37):
I do think they should show this actual footage. I
think it's very interesting. I know they would ever will,
but I'd love to see They probably will. They probably will.
I think the fans will come. Yeah, because I forgot
about it, so now I forget you this experience reminded
me se a question as first crossing the line between
(47:03):
reality television and reality? Uh was that? Would you say
that that and then you mentioned the boat episode. Would
you say those were like sort of the two kind
of moments in your history on the show that were like, Okay,
this is actually too real for reality television. Yes, that
(47:24):
was because you're very like you always seem to be
very much like, no, we should show what's real, like like,
let's have the conversation on camera, that's why we're sucking
here doing the show, Like why wouldn't we do this
on the show. So it's interesting to hear you say
like there's a point where it's like, no, I don't
think it's right. Well, because the show is just add
(47:44):
water to those gremlins, Like it's a concentrated situation. You're
not quote unquote really friends with these people, but you're
having discussions and friendly while you're filming their colleagues effectively,
So you know, people always like is it real? Yeah,
what is happening is real, but you know you're in
the room with someone that you would not normally be
in the room with. So this combination, which is you know,
(48:07):
designed by casting and sometimes successfully and sometimes otherwise, you know,
can be challenging, and like I said, I've I've felt
before while filming this show that the game is moving fast,
that you're you're you're not driving, you're like out of
control with no breaks, you know, and that feels wrong,
and we all get excited and into the whole thing.
(48:28):
I felt that this was something going on with with
someone else. And I've also felt that with substance substances,
with wanting people to drink, and no one pushes anyone
to do anything that's not at all, But I have
felt there's been articles about it, like it's sort of
dramas happening when someone who shouldn't be over consuming is
over consuming and it's capitalizing on that, and it makes
(48:51):
me uncomfortable. You and Kelly have never spoken about Have
you guys ever talked about that episode and what happened there?
Like off camera, like obviously there's the reunions, but you
guys ever, like never, She's written me emails and texts
of let's bury the hatchet and let's be you know,
and then I've written a kind response back because you
(49:12):
always think everything's gonna be fine and then but The
problem is housewives always then have an opportunity to go
back on in the press and then they just they
want to like say something about you. And and she's
really talked about this experience ad nauseum over the years,
and so I guess I'm doing this now, but it's
it's been yeah. No, I just it was not the
right combination. And I was going to say this to
(49:32):
you too, that um. What's interesting is that she wasn't
on the show much longer than I left because she
was more entertained. She and Jill are better on the show.
If I'm on the show, if Kelly is just with
everybody who's like, oh she's dizzy and funny and who
can't like the rub between Kelly is much more elevated
(49:53):
when she's with me because of the way that she
that I you know, she just got under my skin
and vice versa. So like combination is better, you know
what I mean? You need you need the two people
in a scene that really you need you and and
what Mr Waterford June and Mr Waterford? So are you?
Von who plays Serena, said this past season. She said
(50:17):
that Serena is nothing without June. From her perspective as Serena.
Serena feels that she is ultimately nothing without June. You
have to have the foe, you have to have the conflict,
and they also have to be somebody who can, you know,
provide that drama. You know that, And you're right whatever
(50:38):
it is in season, which I think Kelly is right.
I think Kelly is in season, yes, but she's in
Morocco with them, and I don't. I'm out there. Yeah,
you're not. It's not the same totally. Do you notice
because you don't watch as much anymore? I don't watch
as much anymore either. Do you notice the difference in
(51:00):
um like glam and orchestrated outfits? And does it feel
more scripted when you're watching housewives now? Like do you
notice that we were literally just dressing like a wreck
like you, like you would wear on vacation like me?
You know, you're half a wreck. You're just like on vocation,
trying to figure it out. Totally total. You can definitely
feel that it feels very raw. And I've skipped ahead
(51:24):
because I was wondering when you came went on my
rewatch in my research over the past few days. I
skipped ahead because I was like ringing Bethany come back.
And I'm one of those people. There's many of us
fans who like the Bethany seasons the most, and so
I've seen it obviously, but I skipped forward and then
you came back like three seasons later, right, And you
(51:45):
can even tell, I feel you would know the reality
of it. But I can tell a difference even between
season three and like season seven of how even just
like it's shot a little better, everyone looks great, there's
a little bit more of a glossiness to it. Was
the difference between three and seven. Well, there's a couple
(52:09):
of things. Because the first, in the beginning, there was
no glam. I mean, you know, if you went out
to a major event, just like I guess in life,
you know, I would go to the Bloomingdale's counter to
shush McAvoy counter and buy ass and just say, let's
not dance around. How many products do I have to
buy on my seven thousand dollars salary for the whole
season of Housewives? Do what do I have to buy to?
Like for you to put makeup on me? Let's just
(52:30):
get that out of the way. No foreplay, Like, what's
the thing it's fifty seventy two lip glasses, just make
up my face and it didn't matter who did it.
I didn't know there was a difference in good glam
bag lamp. Someone did your phrase, then you didn't went
to one of the events. The idea that every day
to be filmed, that you would be in makeup, hair
and makeup was or clothing that you thought about was preposterous.
(52:51):
I was in a Ralph Lauren like thrift store turquoise
sweater in the interviews and no makeup on like so
now Erica Jane and you know Dord and these costumes
and it's totally different. But to answer your question coming back,
I knew a friend this is T inside T so
I knew a friend who knew christin Takeman, who was
(53:13):
one of the new housewives, and he said to me,
her husband, who's a friend of his, says, she's in
hair and makeup every day scenes. And I'm like, well,
that's not going to be good because then it's not
about what you look like, like it's about what we're
talking about in the content versus like if you're focused
first season in on your shoes and your elaborate outfits,
(53:34):
which you could see in the way they were dressing.
Then you're not you're losing the plot. So I remember
coming back and we were in the Berkshires and everybody
had glam team, glam teams and big major outfits like
we're in the Berkshire's. You're not going anywhere. Who's wearing
a ball skirt in the Berkshire. So it was annoying
because I remember calling Andy, I mean, like, what is this.
(53:56):
It's not really but there's everyone's got a glam team
or not, like oh yeah, And when you're in good
one not doing it you then you look like ship
like Denise Richards when she was on the show, coming
in like a normal person in shorts, but everybody's in
a massive gone at the wind costume. So you gotta
don't hit the players. You gotta start put makeup on
(54:16):
because then you feel the pressure. Well, I can't get
up and just be a normal person and come down
and get coffee as if I didn't go through hair
and makeup, but these six other women have just gone through,
you know, two hours of here and makeup. Yeah, Amazon,
But in season three, like you have like even I
think it happens in in scary Island. In that episode
(54:38):
of the one right after Um where they wake Sonya up,
you know, and she's clearly asleep, but no one's there's clear.
It's very real. It feels everyone looks like shit, and
I love it because it's yeah, yeah, But the Glamazons
came in and the whole thing changed, and it's one
of the things I like looking real, Like, let's be
(54:59):
women are watching that that look real. That our home
then of times, but their makeup on. So let's wearing jeans,
people are wearing tanktops, people are wearing normal clothes. They're
not constantly dressed to the nines. Even when you go
to a party, it's like, you have a nice dress,
but it's to get the feeling. We probably bought that
dress somewhere. It wasn't like something a stylist getting you. Yeah,
(55:20):
and it's it's a much better feeling. I prefer I
prefer that. But I need to point out I'm very swollen.
My best friend says, when you're having a girl, you
like blow up and become like you don't even look
like yourself. And I I noticed it. My my daughter
was like, you look pretty. I'm like, I love you,
but I look like a beating because I'm pregnant and
we're doing that. You do not look at all. Well
(55:41):
we're doing in you know, in the interview shot not
the main thing in the intry, in the purple, in
the purple, because that shot months later, when you picking pickups,
you still do that looks like a beast. But it's
not my best and I'm okay, it's so it's not
my best. Um, well, I don't want to, I don't.
(56:01):
I look, this is the longest project you've ever done,
and the longest interview I've ever done, and I'm sorry
it went so but I've most done. My public was
texted me and she was like, good luck. She was like,
have fun. It's all downhill from here with your press,
and she's not wrong. I truly am such a huge fan.
Thank you so much for listening to the first episode
(56:23):
ever of rewives, a rewatch show unlike any other. Please
remember to rate, review, and subscribe, and follow the show's
instagram at rewives with Bethany. There you'll find video clips
from these conversations and sneak peaks at which episode I'm
reliving next
On the premier episode of Rewives, I had to start
with a bang, So today I'm reliving the Scary Island episode. Yup.
It is one of Andy Cohen's favorite episodes ever. I
remember like it was yesterday. It was a complete, crazy
shit show. It's one of the most iconic Housewives episodes
of any city ever, period story and film. At eleven.
(00:28):
It's the episode where the conflict between myself and Kelly
ben Simone really bubbles up to the surface. There are
complaint pads, photo shoots, gift bags, coco puffs, jelly beans,
gummy bears, sleep discussion, and a whole lot to talk about.
And joining me in this deep dive is Emmy Award
winning actress Elizabeth Moss, And this is why I'm obsessed
(00:50):
with the show. Nowhere else will you hear one of
the greatest actresses of our time have a serious conversation
about ho bags. This is one of my favorite podcast episodes.
I've We're done, and I hope you love it as
much as I do. Let's mention it all. Hi, Hi,
(01:13):
got so nice to see you and I'm so excited
about talking to you. Well, this is obviously gonna be
the most important work you'll ever do in your career.
I have to tell you, though, that I have done
more research for this podcast than I have done for
most rules. And it's not a joke. So when I
found out what episode we were talking about, first of all,
(01:35):
I freaked out, and it was like, I felt like
it was a personal gift to me from you. And
then I rewatched all of season three, including the reunions
and the lost footage, and then I kind of took
it into season four and then I was like, Okay,
I think we're good now, but I really have researched this.
(01:57):
My daughter believe it. I know it's not appropriate, she's twelve,
but like when I was immersed in season three of
Handmaid's Tail and she just saw some of it. And
you carry to carry a show like that only reminds
me of like Claire Daine's Homeland, like a woman with
the with the that carries such an intense, amazing show.
(02:18):
It's so good, you're so amazing. You're just really extraordinary
and rare, but more more important than the oppression of women.
I guess it is scary, scary, scary island. I feel
like there's there's a tie in there. Somewhere. Absolutely, there's
Gilead and there's Scary Island. They're the same. They're the same.
(02:41):
So you watched Housewives in real time in life, or
you were a person who found it later, or you
were back then, you know I was. I was back then.
I watched in real time, and then in later seasons
I would sort of lapse and then binge like two
seasons to three seasons back to back. Um, I've fallen
off a bit. I haven't been watching as much lately
(03:03):
because I've been kind of busy, although apparently not busy
enough to not rewatch all of these three in the
past few days too much. Yeah, And I guess there's
a message in this show, which is funny because to
be learning from the Housewives and me having conversations with
intelligent people about this show, which was an idea for
(03:24):
the this show rewives was because I wanted to do
some people were doing rewatches, and frankly, the truth is,
this is the truth. Paul said to me my fiance,
like people want to hear Tom Brady talk about football,
like they want to hear from him. So you've got
all these other derivative people that are sort of talking
about this garbage and they want to hear you, and
I'm like, but I don't want to go back into
(03:45):
the garbage dump. And you know, it wasn't feeling right.
Let's talk about housewives. So I thought, what if I
have an elevated conversation with smart, successful people about this,
because there are definitely things that you can learn about
dynamics from talking about the show. But still entertained, that's
how this show came to be. And I think it's
(04:06):
also interesting. I think Paul's absolutely right, and I think
it's also interesting to hear your perspective so many years
down the road, having had different life experiences, you know,
having become such an incredible success, how your perspective may
have changed on those events. Okay, so let's get into it.
(04:30):
We start about the hoe bag scene. You know, a
risk that you don't take in playing a character June Osborne.
You know you're not No one's ever gonna surprisingly call
you a hoe back to your face? Right? What was
I mean? You can very clearly see the reaction on camera,
But I have questions. I have more questions for you, go,
(04:52):
did you going into that experience did you think it
was going to be anything like what it would be
was suspicious that it was gonna be something like would
it ended up becoming or did you just go in
blind and think I have I'm going on this trip,
It's probably gonna be okay, maybe something interesting would happen.
How surprised were you by how scary it got? Well,
(05:15):
what's funny is the island of of St. John was
not happy, like the house owners always taking a risk
that we're not like this is a ship hole. But
it was great because it was a really nice house.
But the island is taking a risk too, that we're
gonna name it scary Island because St. John from a
branding perspective, doesn't want to become known as scary island.
(05:36):
It's always so funny, and I used to get it.
I'm I was not I was always on time, and
I always was like, you know, professional and and reliable
the most on time. But I'm not easy in the
sense that I don't just go along like, let's pretend
this is your trip, Elizabeth. You bought, you rented a
two fifty dollar house, and when we're pulling in on
the boat, you're gonna tell everybody this is the wonderful
(05:57):
gift you got for them, paid for are by a
Bravo and production company integration. Like it's so fair, Like
it's okay, we just all are on vacation together. We
don't have to Nobody cares to t for it. Nobody cares.
Thank you, thank you. But you don't know how the
fights ensued between housewives where one person will be like,
(06:18):
everybody wants to own the trip. I mean we don't
think it's a real hat. Yes, people want to own.
In this case, this was quote unquote Ramona's trip. I
mean she invited everybody, right, and she gets very very
very excited in a very funny and cute way when
she's revealing the house on the hill. Um, she's right,
(06:39):
so excited. So in this case, though, was she just
did she have the idea for the trip? Did she
what's the truth and what's the reality of it? Or
she just the reality is that, you know, and people
wanted to be their trip in the finale party and
like there's people want I don't want more work, I
don't want more want I don't I don't want more work. Yeah. Now,
(07:01):
so unless you're like it's your launch and it's you know,
it becomes like a bidding war, like if it's your
launch and it's the best pitch. So so everybody at
the beginning of the season sits down with the producers
and what's going on with your life? And I've got this,
and I've got that and most of the thing. And
people want to pitch my restaurant up. This is my
friend's restaurant. You know. Everyone wants to pitch where they're
gonna be by the couple of years. And I'm just like,
(07:22):
I don't just tell me where to be, but because
you don't want all the responsibility of all that, but
people like that. It's just the thing. So really, I know, yeah,
I'm not the producers just I mean I would. I'm
with you. Producers should just arrange everything and take care
of it. That's their job. Just tell me where to be. Well,
they take they take care, they'll they'll talk to each person.
And you know, I'm like, well, I'm taking a pottery class,
(07:46):
and I think it'd be really interesting if we all
go to the pottery class together and the producers fall
asleep because it's boring to watch people do pottery, and
then someone else is like, oh, I'm going to therapy,
So we could do you know, Oh, how about we
get you getting plastic start whatever that thing is, so
then you find out whatever, but he's got going on.
In some cases, they really want one person to own
the trips, so it'll be like, how about we renew
your vows Ramona, or she might have pitched that because
(08:07):
she wanted to do that. And then sometimes you know
someone really wants to go somewhere. Oh that's competition to wait. No,
we should be going to Turks and Caicos. We should
be going And Ramona, well, no one that's ever been
on reality television that I've ever met has loved those
trips more than remote. Like she thinks she's going to
real vacation. For me, it was torture, Like Derenda would
think it was torture. I would think, this is not
(08:29):
me really going to Morocco. This is me going to
Morocco on like a scheduled, shackled itinerary. But so Ramona
thinks it's totally like real vacation, and she doesn't care
she's getting to go to so she'll hard pitch her
places and wants to go where she's pitching. So sometimes
the people are pitching and winning, and then sometimes the
producers are pitching the places or they have a relationship.
(08:52):
We can get a villa here, we can get it
that there they have. You know, we were always the
step children, so we always had the shittiest budgets. Like
Beverly Hills is going to lave amazing places and we're
going to like de Moi, you know. So so I
used to like when we were going to Miami because
it would be like, it's not a vacation anyway, it's
two hours, not stop direct flight. Let me burn the
place to the ground again. I can probably don't need,
(09:17):
you know, I don't need to be on an eleven
hour flight to fight with people, like a fight with
them in Jersey. Just keep us trapped together. That's why
the burg Shears is great. And that's the thing is
if it's if the show is good, the content is good,
if the relationships are interesting, and then it doesn't matter
where you go. You can totally go to the right.
But riddle me this. An apartment that's a thousand square
(09:38):
feet in New York City could cost three million dollars,
and that's what a twenty thousand squarefret house in Atlanta
would cost. And where they live in the suburbs, so
you have to find stuff to show because we all
look like we're living like you know, I had a
four thousand squareft apartment, and I had the best department,
and it would be a house the size of you know,
Lisa Vanner Promp's house, but it still doesn't look the same.
(10:01):
So the Beverly Hills has a lot of the clothes
and trappings and cars and houses that do a lot
of the story. Like other cities, have to rely more
on the actual meet because we can't show a gorgeous
estate for long, you know, and have the entertainment of
just looking at that an expensive car. We don't have
the cars, we don't have the homes that are that
(10:22):
big because it's New York City. So that's just something
to mention to you think about the visual. The first season,
Andy Cohen called me the Greek Chorus because he felt
that I was sort of explaining to the audience something
that was going on, and I was like with them
in the narration unintentional narration of the show. So this season,
Kelly comes in and I meet her, and I had
(10:45):
met her previously and she had sort of acted like
she didn't know me unless I was with someone famous
or like there was just a nuance in the hampts
because I was a nobody who was like a guest
of a guest of a guest when she was more elevated.
So I had a pre existing feeling about her um,
but I didn't know her and I had met her
(11:07):
at different times. It was totally superficial. But when we
sat down at this meeting earlier in the season and
she was like, I don't put my name on anything,
because people come into this show and they want to
show everybody either how rich they are, how elevated they are,
how not like these trashy women they are, and somehow
water always seeks its own level. It just it ends
up whatever is gonna it's gonna be. So you can't
(11:29):
beat the game trying so hard. And I never there
was no game. I was just a person showing my
studio apartment. I bounced checks. I was like poor, it
was what it was. So she was coming in and
she was up here and I was down here, and
I had been feeling this stuff all season. But it
was like a Threes Company episode, that sitcom where like
(11:49):
things are happening in other rooms and no one's seeing
and you're like, no, this is a good this person
and they're like no, I think she's Swede and nor
you know, so you're seeing stuff and no one else
has seen. So this trip, we're trips. That's where trips
are good. All the ship pours out like whatever is bubbling,
it comes together and it all comes out on the trip.
(12:10):
So for me, I I was so happy at the
end of what we were going to discuss because I
was like, I told you all, this is what I've
been seeing. Yes, That's one of my favorite moments of
the episode is when you're like f you and F you,
I was right. It's so great because everyone has felt
(12:31):
that way. When you're like, see, she's crazy, and it's
very gratifying. You feel very like you feel with you
as far as like, yes, this is reality, this is
what's happening. This is vindication. So what's happening is that
you know in your normal life, like if someone and
on TV, if someone's calling you a hoe bag, it's
gonna be on television. You're one day gonna have a
(12:52):
twelve year old daughter that's on the couch when you're
watching and see that like someone called you a hoback
and said you slept your whatever, and you're in the
moment trying to keep your ship together because you're the
wheels are turning about the fact that that's like being
set to you because anything can be said to you,
and so you have very little I think, visible response
to her to that word, I think, and what Currantine
(13:15):
is like, Well, she's also engaged in pregnant, so this
is a very funny time to be calling her a
bag exactly exactly, and some people don't show this is
too tish. But she had a lot going on off
camera with you know, men and whatever. But that's not
the point of it. But you know, in a situation,
I don't know about you, but I'll talk about things
(13:36):
that are polarizing, but only like what they mean for society.
I'll never call someone a name, Did that make any sense?
Like I will character assassinate. I'll talk about like what's
the message in society or my opinion of someone's actions,
but I will be like that person's an asshole, Like
it's just it's low hanging fruit to to call someone
a name or sexually promiscuous, or a terrible mother or
(13:57):
a bad wife, Like you won't go like that personal
I feel I did once and I called her, I
called her a horse, So I have to take that caveat.
I took the bait or something that had been bothering me,
so that I did do that one time, but I
always owned my But I did do that, but I
don't typically and especially now, it's just not where I go.
I want to talk about the issue, you know what
(14:19):
I mean? How do you handle when you're called a
hoe bag? What are you going to do? Because you
could easily become wrong when someone calls you a ho
bag with what you do, people forget where it's started
based on a reaction. The fact that you didn't actually
really even reply to the hoe bag comment, which is
I think true. I don't think you really had that
much of a reaction at the time, right what what
is the right thing to say? No, I'm not a
(14:41):
hold yeah exactly, but I'm going to take the receipts
out of my vagina. Tell you let's really dig into this, Kelly.
But the fact that you didn't say anything to your
point of being able to receive language, received comments, receive
(15:02):
even criticism, and perhaps use it to your advantage. The
fact that you didn't say anything, just made the comments
stick out even more like the sore of thtuff. Thank you.
And in life, if you don't know what to do,
sit still. And I teach it to my daughter because
my daughter sometimes in school, something will happen and she
wants to get on the phone and say it and
text it. I'm like, first of all, everything in writing
(15:23):
is for the rest of your life. Second of all,
whole stay at keep the bus at fifty five, like
take a break. You know you don't have to get
every home run. Absolutely you take a second, think about it,
think about what you want to say, think about how
you feel, and reply thoughtfully, absolutely exactly. On the chef, yeah,
you know that was even that bothered me even more
(15:44):
for some reason because and it was bothering her. She
wanted to like take me down up here, I'm up here,
you're down here. Was bothering her than anybody might even
like use that word, like, I didn't think I was
John George. I went to culinary school, and I was
a natural food chef. I didn't say I was an
natural food cook. And the problem is, first of all,
if you're gonna take a shot at this, be a
better not miss, Like, you can't come in here with me.
(16:06):
You can't play checkers when I'm playing chess over here,
Like you just can't. So like, you better get your
act together, go do a thesis, come in here, have
copious notes, have a lawyer on hand, Like you can't
come in here because you're not gonna beat me at
the words game. So she's coming in and she's like, well,
you know you don't work at a restaurant, Like there's
a woman serving us our lunch here, and I think
you said at one point, I think you asked her
(16:28):
for explanation, what do you mean tell me what you
think a cook is and what a chef is? You
you asked some sort of like clarifying follow up question,
which is to to Andy's point about you being a
recourse is exactly how you feel as a viewer. You're like,
all you want to do as a viewers go what
are you getting? Like, what's the point? What do you
(16:48):
think a cook is? What do you think a chef is?
And what is what are you trying to say here? Right?
This is a thing. You notice this in I'm sure
you notice it in Hollywood and meetings and lunch is
like when people don't know the tem but sure the room.
And it happens with successful, smart people, like we're both
on the same show. She's an elevated woman in New York.
She was married to bet all the stuff I said before.
She's sitting at a table and she's not aware of
(17:10):
the temperature of what's going on. She's telling me I'm
attacking her, and we're all like, you're not in the
same meeting. We are, Like, what's what is that about
in life? Why does some people understand the temperature and
others don't have a room of a meeting, of a scene. Why?
I mean, I think it has to do a lot
with somebody just being too much inside themselves. They're not
looking out, not observing the people around them. They're not
(17:33):
in the moment, they're not being present. They're on some
path that they have pre sort of decided that they're
going to. This is what I'm going to do. Yes,
that's so smart. And as an actress, I remember taking
acting classes and it was Meisner where you you're not
supposed to know the punctuation or anything. You're supposed to
listen to the other actor and respond that way, versus
(17:55):
what you how you want to say ha ha ha
with a laugh. You know, you're you're you're actually, I'm
sure in scenes for you, you think it's gonna go
one way and then something happens in the moment or
someone drops something and you do it totally differently. No,
I don't know that all the time. All the time,
I think there's this there's this old thing of there's
three versions of the scene. There's the version you do
(18:18):
that you think you're gonna do, there's the version you
actually do, and then there's the version you do in
your car on the way home. Oh that's amazingly But
you're absolutely right. It can totally go it differently, And
I love that as an actor, just as a side tangent, right, Like,
I think that is where the joy is. That's where
(18:40):
it feels alive to me. That's where my heart starts
pounding and and you know the mic on my chest
starts picking up my heartbeak. That's where I feel like
I am fully you know, in the pocket as they say,
and the gift, Yes, like it feels like it's I'm
really really there and when you come in with okay,
(19:02):
this is how I'm going to do this scene, and
this is how I have decided this scene is going
to go, and I am going to say the line
in this way, and it's just going to do waning
that often is kind of just bullshit. And the best
version for me, anyway, is when you throw that out
and you're listening and you're reacting to the other person
(19:24):
who's now doing something in front of you that's potentially incredible,
and so you want to kind of give something back
to them in this in this tennis match, you know,
because you couldn't even the game is moving too fast.
There's no way you could even hold. Please, I'd like
to react to you in the way that I decided
I was going to do it yesterday, like it would
(19:45):
be that's how people are in their head. But that
was the gift of that scene, like me not being
in my head and be you know, just responding to
what was happening in front of me, like who could
prepare for that? You can? And the dinner and diner,
So it's not that different. I'm not even making a
joke like us. If you're true to the if you're
true and self aware, that's what I was going to
(20:05):
say to you. If you're self aware. You you probably
understand the temperature of the room better than someone who's
not self aware. And if you're true to the art
of what you're doing, even reality TV, that's where it's
like joy of the shell's joy. Sometimes it's just like
that was insane. And that's what's so one of the
one of the many, many interesting things to talk about
(20:25):
about that dinner in this episode is you can see
and feel the temperature change during the dinner. You feel
it change, and you can see all of you around
Kelly realizing the temperature is changing and going through this
trajectory of sort of confusion and trying to figure out
(20:46):
what she's saying and trying to clarify things too. Something's
run here and I think we need to actually back
away from this. This has gotten to the moment, yeah,
like yes, the lightbulb of like this is more serious
than we thought it was. And then just icely just
frustration and just you know, with the gummy bearers and
(21:07):
all of that. It was just like what you do
precisely for all of the things that are let's just say,
sort of interesting and surprising that Kelly does in this hour,
I felt like her reaction to the gift bag was
huge and very telling that something bad was coming, that
something bad was about to happen when I rewatched it,
(21:28):
which I did today again, by the way, because they
really wanted to be I'm telling you, if you know me,
if anyone knows me, they know I do very very
little research for any role. I'm not a method actor.
I'm very bad at doing like homework, like I'm not
like that. So I when I rewatched it again this morning,
her reaction when she opens the door and sees the
gift bag, she actually jumps. But I also couldn't tell
(21:51):
if that was pre sort of she was making that
up in the moment, or if that was a real
genuine reaction for her to jump when she opened the
door and see the gift bag and then she starts
crying on the bed, which did. I don't know if
it's about the gift bag or not, but I think
that she's aware that I'm marketing my brand under the
(22:11):
guise of a gift bag, and it's annoying her because
it's all about me. And what I will say about
housewives is it can be never about what it's about,
Like you can get frustrated and react in a different
way in a scene because you're dehydrated and you drank
three drinks because seem like a good idea and you
just wanted to have a drink to take the edge off.
And then and she doesn't, really she didn't, she didn't
drink a lot. I'm just saying like things can be
(22:33):
disproportionately played out because of something else that happened before.
You know, Ramona was always the best because Ramona doesn't care.
Ramona could literally say the most egregious thing to someone
and in the next scene hit a pinata and dance
like it's New Year's even clean up that mess two
weeks from Thursday. If I do something one word sideways,
(22:53):
I'm in my head about it later, So I don't know.
You know, Kelly probably realizes like this is getting out
of control and she can't sense what's going on, and
and this girl's here again, haunting me with this gift bag,
and it's an absolutely irrational, disproportionate response. But being fairness
to the genre, it's like things tick up, you know,
(23:14):
and then you're you're just you're just off, or it's
just you can't handle the game moving so quickly. Whatever
is going on and we're talking about the complaint pad
and then I, oh, yeah, I felt something. This is
something I noticed. We never was never really talked about
about the episode. There was a way do you ever
have friends who want to like shroud a compliment in
(23:36):
some sort of insult or instructive like Kelly. She told
Alex that she was channeling the devil, but she asked
this way to like, you know what, you're great, and
you know what's great, It's really great when you smile.
It's so nice when you which means like it's yeah, yeah,
like you know, or someone like you know, it's just
(23:58):
nice to see you like relaxed like this, like so much.
So she has this way of each time talking to
sound like no and it's okay, Sonja. I get not
as much as I used to, which is maybe not
a good thing. But um, when I was on Madman,
because my character was like, so it looks so different
than me, and she was, you know, it was the sixties,
and so we had this sort of grandma hair no
(24:19):
matter how old you were, if you were twenty five
and you had this sort of grandma woffed you know, hair,
and the costumes always made you look older, and um,
and I was much you know, I was younger than
I am. Yeah, but I would always get in person
people would say to me, you look so much better
in person, or you look so much prettier in person,
or younger in person all the time, yes, And I
(24:41):
always just want to say like, and I don't because
what's the point of getting into it? But like no,
I always say, like, do you know that? That's me too? Though,
like that, like thank you also me and and so
now I feel worried about how I look there. It's
such a funny thing. Yeah, I call it like it's
like a It's like an insult, shrouded and frosting. Yeah.
(25:04):
What I found about this season and maturing now is
that I feel like back then, alex and Simon was
strange to me, and I was a little like either
judgmental or didn't relate to Alex And and watching back,
I feel like she was mature and like she poised
and smart and like, you know, not like the coolest
(25:26):
girl of all of us. And I have a different
compassion and feeling for her, like an affinity towards her
when I watch back, Yeah, like when I watch back now,
I liked the way she was in this episode. I
like the way she handled when Kelly told her she
was channeling the Dell Devil, and she did sort of
back me up. Alough she was of sound mind, she
might have been a two sound mind for that show.
(25:46):
In wait, I that it's so interesting because I totally agree,
and having watch all season three again, I see that
through all the throughout the season that she is. She
may not be as quick with the with the one
liner sometimes, and she may not be as as brutal
or have sort of the ton and be able to
(26:07):
sort of spar like some of the women can on
the show in this like fascinating way, but she's absolutely
probably like the calmst and the most normal. Yes, more Tea.
She was going to be fired, and I told her
to deliver that message that they're discussing that which I
guess she was in like makeup that they thought like
(26:29):
kabooky makeup. I told her, like I knew the producers
that someone had told me, and I said to her
to tell that message to Jail because and I was like,
because I knew it would be like good moment moment
And years later, Sonja, one of the producers, I will
not say who in the car said, I think we
have to let Sonya go. They couldn't find she was
just a disaster and it was all about the bidet
and the lage. It was the on the loop and
(26:50):
all this stuff. And there was a scene at a
restaurant called Cherry, a sushi restaurant where I just light
a match about her and Tinsley, like where Tinsley started
out living in Sonya's town house and was basically a
nobody who had been like arrested and was living in
(27:11):
and how buy up to that point she had this
rich guy sending flowers and Sonja's like, you know, poor
in bankrupt. I said something to like stir that up,
and it like lit up Sonja and she launched and
she did not get let go. That is an absolute fact.
I have the receipt. Did they know this? I mean
the girls, they wouldn't have cared, they wouldn't believe it.
(27:31):
But the producers will back it up a thousand percent.
Alex was going to be fired that season and Sonya
was going to be fired later and I went in
and just said, I said to the producer in the car,
give me one night. And that was the night that
Sonya resurrected herself. I forgot that. I don't even think
Sonya knows that. I mean, she would totally believe me,
she trust me, But that did happen that I forgot that.
That's crazy. Yeah, it's totally true because it was so
(27:54):
out of character for Alex to go do that. And
she's clearly so. She is a great job. She certainly
delivers the message, but she's clearly uncomfortable doing it. But
she she knows she's got to, Like you believe it.
It seems different. It's like an outlier, right, Like it's
a funny outside moment where you're like, huh, and that's
(28:15):
the behind the scenes literally yea. But Kelly tells Alex
that she was channeling the devil. I just like that.
And I also like, I didn't go to the photo
shoot and they would always make you go now to
something like that, Like I didn't guess and it's okay,
Like different things happen. It's being real. I like I
used to say to one of the producers on my
own show Bethany ever after, when one of the people
(28:38):
was like, we're gonna have you in a big giant dress,
like Carrie Bradshaw on your bed and whatever, and I said,
let's do real, Like I just like doing real, So
I like that. I didn't go to the photo shoot,
and I really was with you on that one. I
was like, oh God, it goes to a photo shoot
on vacation. That sounds awful. There's a moment in the
episode where you laid down on this chair on that
(29:00):
sort of outside and you can just tell just speaking
to the realness, you can just tell like kind of exhausted,
like there's a lot going on, pregnant, The way you
sit down in this chair, it's just so real. You're
just I felt for you in that moment. I was like, oh,
it's been a long trip. I feel that all right. Well,
(29:26):
it looks like we're gonna be at the dinner now.
So I felt the pressure of cooking, which is weird
because I cook the crap as you volunteer, Did you
want to cook or where you asked? No. I think
they made this thing up of everyone's going to give
their gift, and I guess and that was giving, right,
and so mine was to do that. And the producers
are probably thinking, like they got the big white board
(29:46):
out and well, now we had that comment. So now
let's get Bethany to cook, you know, which is again
you're on this vacation and you're working, but you've got
to clean up what happened in that other scene for
them and for you, because you don't know what it
looks like the whole you're working as a off then
you don't make a lot of money. What if the
world thinks you're a fraud and you don't know how
to call like So so we cook and I picked
(30:07):
that simple menu and the crab cakes were amazing. I
made a lot of leftover. Ramona was obsessed with the
crab pack. She's she will talk about the crab cakes
of this day. And Ramona, like me, get cares deeply
about her food and she she eats well, she cooks,
but she's like cares about her food. So that night
off off camera and when the producers were like eating
their feelings and stressed out. And usually the producers don't
(30:30):
like get into our food our like Jacuzy, like they've
got their own thing, but it was a very outlier night.
It was crazy. The wheels came up, so the producers
all went into the kitchen and ate all my leftover
crab cakes, and Ramona had a ship it over the
crab cakes. She cursed out. She cursed out the crew
(30:51):
about the crab cakes. Asked Matt Anderson and Darren Ward,
because Darren Ward is very passionate about it, asked if
she did not have a ship fit about the crab cake.
I didn't leave a single one. I don't know if
I'm a cook going on promonas is like priorities. You
guys ate their grabs, Yes, your monster, and she meant it,
(31:15):
and I were like, and that's Matt Anderson and Darren
Ward ate the crab cakes. And they also they may
call me a chepherd cook, but everybody was eating my
crab cakes. It was definitely not a normal night. So
um so we started off with Kellie talking aloud. Oh,
she starts in on the salsas. I had to I
didn't remember that. Did you make the salsa like a derogation?
(31:39):
Because and by the way, I don't normally make salsas
like I like, I literally love toastino salsa. I just
have a weird thing. I don't usually make fresh salsas.
The pressure was definitely on. I don't even like mango salsa.
A trio of salsas like, who are you you fraud?
I don't ever make salsas press, so I couldn't believe it.
(31:59):
I made maybe the enormous amount of pressure you're in
there trying to figure out to read different. Never never
in my life. Besides, then did I make a trio
of sal says, who do you think you all? What
are you crazy? I'm not making a So I know
that I was feeling it because I saw that last
(32:20):
night and I was like, what the bitch made sauces?
I mean crazy, incredible? And then she seems to enjoy
the crab cakes as everyone did. Now she left it
on the plate. Oh that's right, what am I talking about?
But she says it was good or she said the
salad was good or something she she kind of throws
out like some sort of compliment about something. Yes, which
(32:44):
is good because Martha, now, Martha Stewart and Kelly ben
Simone have said that my sala addressings are extraordinary. And
I'm in the sala addressing business and I make a
good sound. So that's the rest of my life. I
will have Kelly ben Simone and Martha Stewart, two people
who despise me, have said good things about my dressing.
So literally only Martha and Kelly hate me more than
anybody in the world, and they both have said positive
things about my salad dressing. So then that would mean
(33:06):
if your biggest enemy, So that's good more than compliment
about you're dressing from a bread. Thank you, thank you,
I appreciate you. Yes, So she I like the term
now in current society that I didn't even know then microaggressions,
because I feel like eating one fifth of Maybe I'm
(33:29):
not I'm not Stephen Hawkins, but maybe one fourth of
a crab cake is a micro aggression. And who is
it that's very concerned about sending it back? Is it
Ramona or someone's rama and a very concerned about sending
it back? Now? Is she concerned about sending it back round?
And she just wants the rest of you? Well, it's
funny you say that because in the scene it really
(33:50):
looks like she's concerned about sending it back. It doesn't
track personality wise. But given crab cake gait that happened
later with the producers, we can never know. We can't
be very suspicious. And so and Sonya was lovely and
always is um here. Yes, now we get into the string.
You've seen those strings like around a tenderloin, and I
(34:11):
definitely did not mean that, but I was like, oh
my god, and it was hers was not very cooked.
So the one person who for some reason it wasn't
evenly cooked and there's a string, I'm dying inside. It
happened to me one time on another show where I
made a burger for Frederick on my barbecue and like
it wasn't cooked. And I'm very self conscious, not about
just cooking, Like if I do something, I want to
look at it. I want to be perfect as the
(34:32):
lighting okay is to me it's annoying that funny you're
proud of what you do and you want it to
be good. I wanted to be good. So that was
something that you're thinking your mind again, Like it was
much younger and I realized that like everything doesn't matter.
But I was much younger and was probably like, oh
my god, I'm gonna be thought of as I can't cook,
and you know, this is this is my career at
that point, that was my how I made my living.
(34:52):
So I was thinking in my head like this is
gonna air and it's gonna not be great for that,
and that was not that was sort of stressed. Of course,
So when are in the kitchen of all the people
that this particular piece of meat should go to, and
then when you're when you're in the kitchen, you are
very one of my favorite moments of the episodes. In
the kitchen, you're basically like, it's just a fucking dinner.
(35:12):
It's a fucking dinner. Who cares to dinner? It doesn't matter,
it's unimportant. So it's that kind of is that a
bit of an act because since I you were secretly
freaking out stress, right, you know, I I thought that
was sort of like I didn't know if it was
obvious or not that like I don't mean that like
I'm saying, tell you, I don't thought maybe like you're
trying to convince yourself it's not it's just dinner. It's fine,
but yes, well of course it's your lively because well
(35:35):
but no. But it's also the person has been saying
the entire someone saying to you you are a shitty actress.
I don't know that you're an actress even and I
don't you were in a high school play. I don't.
I haven't seen you in on Broadway, so okay, you
say you're an actress, you'd be like, yeah, so, um,
it was just a random outlier of a stick and
just didn't I definitely didn't have a meet thermometer there,
(35:55):
and I never want something to be overcooked, so I
probably took it off to you. I definitely took it
off to Earl and I wanted to be overcooked or
or don't. I don't remember, and what the grill was
and it's not my own wal and you know who
who even knows? And I'm not cooking all the time.
Maybe I'm a cook now chef, but um, and I'm
not always making steak, and god who knows. Now we
start to, like literally now we start to figuratively get cooking.
(36:17):
Now we start to get cooking. And there's a moment
not only when we all realized it had gone SI was,
but when I realized that everybody else realized what I
had been saying. It was like, I mean, I don't
know what was going on with her, and that's the
type of stuff I won't speculate about, but like her,
I feel like you're trying to kill me. And I
threw up last night, like what are we talking about?
It became very strange. There was the bed and by
(36:42):
the way she says something earlier when you guys are
on the boat, like nobody ever explains or talks about.
It's not brought up in the you know, one ever
says anything. Which is one of my favorite things, which
she says, statchels of gold. Please tell me you have
an explanation for that, because it gets every time I'm like,
what is it mean? I just want to know what
I means die. We definitely have to do a production
(37:05):
company together called It's just a great name for a
production company, an you know, it is never no Alright,
So here's the thing that I'm going to tell you,
honestly and why the show could have been maddening for Kelly.
And I don't remember all of it, but here's what
(37:25):
I think. So I think she thinks in these non sequiturs,
but doesn't isn't explaining like what she's thinking, Like there's
like the synapses are going off inside, but they are not.
I dreamed you killed me last night, like or maybe
that's something she did dream, but she's making it like
you tried to kill me last night. It's not saying
the full thought. And I'm giving her a lot of
credit here because I could just let everyone think she's batship.
(37:47):
But I'm going to tell you that I think the
first time I ever like show the skinny goll cocktail
was that this guy Robert Verity a stylist studio somewhere,
and maybe it didn't air. I think it did. But
when I saw her in the scene, it might have
been one of the first times I met her, or
she was there. I don't remember. I gotta go back
and look, but I think I said something about like,
(38:08):
uh yeah, and a leprecn is not going to come
out of a rainbow with a satchel of gold at
the end or something. I think I said something to
her at some point, And I also think somewhere along
the lines, and I don't remember saying this, and I
don't know I never talked about al Sharpton, so I
don't know what context it's in, but it's like the
way deep deep memory of my life that maybe somewhere
(38:31):
something I said something so she like brought it up
in the scene that I'm saying, you can't handle the
truth is from a few good men as you know.
But I think that maybe she thinks because I've referenced
al Sharpton somewhere else that I said, like I'm giving
her the credit for that. Those two things, you know,
they were like confused here we are, I don't know,
(38:52):
it's like these disassociated, disassociative thoughts. And she said something
about I of myself. Sometimes I never remember the things
that I say. So I'm watching this person talk and
like sometimes I laugh at my own stuff, and I say,
something's wrong with you? And she says, I don't, Like
I said, that's not an illness. Very good, it's very
(39:16):
very good. See, I don't think I played. I'd be
much more like Alex. I think so or something in
the in this In an episode like this, I don't
think I could engage on on that level. You're so quick, Um,
that's my level. I'm used to grow up with a
crazy like house and everyone loved. It's funny that the
more obvious lines of people love like your cuckoo for
cuckoo for Coco puffs, that to me, like everyone loves that,
(39:38):
and that's fine and funny, but that's not to me,
you know, watching it, like that's just a throw away.
You know, I think with the go to sleep, like,
I think I was just reacting, meaning I didn't know
that was going to be this iconic line, but it's
you're screaming for the audience in that moment. I look
at look at you. Wow, June. Okay, I like that
(39:59):
very and so you are. It's the Greek for it.
You are saying what we are all saying, because I
think if I'm not, she goes away and that's and
then she comes back, right, she comes back with the
gummy bears, and I think it's after that that they
go to sleep happens. And that is just how we
feel as an audience watching just we just wanted to
(40:23):
go to sleep. We just wanted to go and get
some rest and stop because it doesn't seem to be
going well, and she's gonna keep saying things and it's
going to keep getting worse for her, and she's going
to regret this tomorrow, and so there's a feeling from
her like she's being forced to stay and talk. But
that's not the case. Everyone else is like going to sleep,
(40:44):
and so that's why it doesn't feel vicious. You're also laughing,
you're kind of smiling when you say it, it's not
It doesn't feel like an attack. It feels like you're
speaking for the audience as far as like get some
fucking sleep. So what's happening now in the scene? And
this is again what I believe, but I this is
(41:04):
what it really is. So we're in the scene, you
are aware whether it's going well or not. You may
not know how not well, but if it feels weird inside,
So I believe that this is a woman who was
crying over the gift bag now at dinner and is
having some sort of agitation, some feeling, saying things about
channeling the devil and you're trying to kill me and
this stuff. So now you've got on some subconscious level
(41:27):
or conscious realize like this isn't going that well as
you said, So you can leave and know that the
format of this show is going to be for other
people to continue to talk about this. So if you leave,
you know that you're just going to be continually talked about.
So I my belief is that it was like she
(41:49):
tried to to leave but couldn't control the scene, Like
couldn't control what was going here. So so so I
had to like wanted to stay. It was like addicted
to staying in the thing and digging in deeper, and
it started to go really badly. And this is where
the fans, after hearing this will probably like demand that
Bravo releases the Trump tapes. Like this is where she
(42:13):
starts saying Matt Anderson as the producer, and she starts
with the gummy bears. And I remember, like it was yesterday,
and that's the thing, like I have, I literally built
a career on not forgetting a godsamn thing. Was had
the gummy bears and was going Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
Matt to stop the scene, but like repeally Matt Matt,
Matt Matt. Because it wasn't the days where Denise Richards
(42:35):
at dinner could say Bravo production and they would just
air that. Back then, that was breaking the fourth wall,
and you did not break the fourth wall, and you
did not air that there's a camera or a producer
or paparazzi, like because you've got paparazzi because of the show.
So it's too meta. Like now they'll just show anything
and show real and show a camera falling in Nini's
closet or something like that, do really talk. So so
(42:58):
then someone saying Matt to try to stop, like to
stop the scene. She was like, stop the scene, Matt, Matt, Matt.
He's like, I'm not going to stop the scene. So
what also never happens on reality television is that they
stopped the scene something was wrong, Like we thought that
something had gone wrong and it was way worse than
what was aired, so we stopped shooting. That's when everyone
(43:19):
started eating crab cakes and like, it was crazy. Stop shooting,
not right after the Matt thing, but like very very
shortly thereafter, like it had gone pretty clear. Yeah, pretty
closely after the Matt thing. Pretty closely it did work work.
I mean, it was crazy, but it wasn't like she
was just she wasn't just saying like production, but the
way that she's like, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt, Matt,
like it was further to what had been spiraling. So
(43:42):
we all were just a little unsettled. It was a
lot of stress because if you see the previous for
the next week, you see how Alex is crying and
she's like, we've all been through a lot, Like we
we were through a lot more than you saw, and
I thought I was positive she Darren Wore took her
on an airplane and he got to sit first class
(44:03):
with her, which doesn't happen. Producers don't sit on the
plane first class next to her to accompany her on
the plane, and took her home. And I was under
the impression that she would absolutely not be on the
show anymore, because I felt that it was irresponsible for
her to continue on the show. I was under the
impression that she was going home right now. Yeah, yeah,
(44:24):
But I was under the impression that that something was
going to happen. Yeah, that's the impression that I had
because what we had all seen, um and that happens
a lot. Like years later in Colombia, we are on
a horrible, horrible boat accident that we like literally almost died,
and it was weeks of meetings with Bravo that don't
make it to ship goes down and we're like that
was not accepted, Like so this was really something for
(44:48):
all of us. And so when I we were filming
next week and she was filming, I was like, what
where I was green and people hadn't yet gone to
prison and had fraudulent husbands and been having Hansi schemes
like it was early in the game. I thought that
this was not a reason to keep filming with someone.
But that's what makes these shows, I guess do well.
But like there's a line for me, and that was
(45:09):
the line for me. So how did you guys remember
how the scene ends on the show and the aired version.
I think it just sort of ends. The ends go
to sleep and it's like it kind of ends, and
then I guess you get us home the next time,
like talking about it, I guess after it just sort
of ends. So that's there's the note. Kelly leaves a
note saying I'm going to go home. Yeah, exactly exactly,
(45:35):
So that that was that. And also to give vindication
to Kelly, she's not friends with Gwyneth Paltrow and she
was asked by Andy Cohen on the show do you
know Gwyneth? Do you know Kelly? And Gwenna said no,
But I'm also going to put myself under the bus
and for to be accountable when she's like and what
you said about my friend Gwynneth years ago, when Gwyneth
was like cooking going on a tour with Mario Batali
(45:56):
when I used to say Synarchi things for the sake
of saying them. And I don't know why I said
I'd rather put hot pennies on my eyes than eat
a roast chicken. For Gwyneth Paltrow, I don't know why
I said it. I don't know anything about her roast chicken.
I don't know why I said it, just like I
don't know why I said it because I don't know
Gwyneth and I don't know what her chickens like. And
it probably was when you first started out and you
(46:16):
didn't realize that, like this is before Twitter, before Instagram.
You just thought you could just say something in a blog.
It was in a blog or something. I have no idea.
It just it makes no sense. So I'm just gonna say,
but that's also it's based in something connected to something,
if that makes any sense, because I want, yeah, wow,
so meaning? And I do I do? You know, well,
(46:37):
I do think they should show this actual footage. I
think it's very interesting. I know they would ever will,
but I'd love to see They probably will. They probably will.
I think the fans will come. Yeah, because I forgot
about it, so now I forget you this experience reminded
me se a question as first crossing the line between
(47:03):
reality television and reality? Uh was that? Would you say
that that and then you mentioned the boat episode. Would
you say those were like sort of the two kind
of moments in your history on the show that were like, Okay,
this is actually too real for reality television. Yes, that
(47:24):
was because you're very like you always seem to be
very much like, no, we should show what's real, like like,
let's have the conversation on camera, that's why we're sucking
here doing the show, Like why wouldn't we do this
on the show. So it's interesting to hear you say
like there's a point where it's like, no, I don't
think it's right. Well, because the show is just add
(47:44):
water to those gremlins, Like it's a concentrated situation. You're
not quote unquote really friends with these people, but you're
having discussions and friendly while you're filming their colleagues effectively,
So you know, people always like is it real? Yeah,
what is happening is real, but you know you're in
the room with someone that you would not normally be
in the room with. So this combination, which is you know,
(48:07):
designed by casting and sometimes successfully and sometimes otherwise, you know,
can be challenging, and like I said, I've I've felt
before while filming this show that the game is moving fast,
that you're you're you're not driving, you're like out of
control with no breaks, you know, and that feels wrong,
and we all get excited and into the whole thing.
(48:28):
I felt that this was something going on with with
someone else. And I've also felt that with substance substances,
with wanting people to drink, and no one pushes anyone
to do anything that's not at all, But I have
felt there's been articles about it, like it's sort of
dramas happening when someone who shouldn't be over consuming is
over consuming and it's capitalizing on that, and it makes
(48:51):
me uncomfortable. You and Kelly have never spoken about Have
you guys ever talked about that episode and what happened there?
Like off camera, like obviously there's the reunions, but you
guys ever, like never, She's written me emails and texts
of let's bury the hatchet and let's be you know,
and then I've written a kind response back because you
(49:12):
always think everything's gonna be fine and then but The
problem is housewives always then have an opportunity to go
back on in the press and then they just they
want to like say something about you. And and she's
really talked about this experience ad nauseum over the years,
and so I guess I'm doing this now, but it's
it's been yeah. No, I just it was not the
right combination. And I was going to say this to
(49:32):
you too, that um. What's interesting is that she wasn't
on the show much longer than I left because she
was more entertained. She and Jill are better on the show.
If I'm on the show, if Kelly is just with
everybody who's like, oh she's dizzy and funny and who
can't like the rub between Kelly is much more elevated
(49:53):
when she's with me because of the way that she
that I you know, she just got under my skin
and vice versa. So like combination is better, you know
what I mean? You need you need the two people
in a scene that really you need you and and
what Mr Waterford June and Mr Waterford? So are you?
Von who plays Serena, said this past season. She said
(50:17):
that Serena is nothing without June. From her perspective as Serena.
Serena feels that she is ultimately nothing without June. You
have to have the foe, you have to have the conflict,
and they also have to be somebody who can, you know,
provide that drama. You know that, And you're right whatever
(50:38):
it is in season, which I think Kelly is right.
I think Kelly is in season, yes, but she's in
Morocco with them, and I don't. I'm out there. Yeah,
you're not. It's not the same totally. Do you notice
because you don't watch as much anymore? I don't watch
as much anymore either. Do you notice the difference in
(51:00):
um like glam and orchestrated outfits? And does it feel
more scripted when you're watching housewives now? Like do you
notice that we were literally just dressing like a wreck
like you, like you would wear on vacation like me?
You know, you're half a wreck. You're just like on vocation,
trying to figure it out. Totally total. You can definitely
feel that it feels very raw. And I've skipped ahead
(51:24):
because I was wondering when you came went on my
rewatch in my research over the past few days. I
skipped ahead because I was like ringing Bethany come back.
And I'm one of those people. There's many of us
fans who like the Bethany seasons the most, and so
I've seen it obviously, but I skipped forward and then
you came back like three seasons later, right, And you
(51:45):
can even tell, I feel you would know the reality
of it. But I can tell a difference even between
season three and like season seven of how even just
like it's shot a little better, everyone looks great, there's
a little bit more of a glossiness to it. Was
the difference between three and seven. Well, there's a couple
(52:09):
of things. Because the first, in the beginning, there was
no glam. I mean, you know, if you went out
to a major event, just like I guess in life,
you know, I would go to the Bloomingdale's counter to
shush McAvoy counter and buy ass and just say, let's
not dance around. How many products do I have to
buy on my seven thousand dollars salary for the whole
season of Housewives? Do what do I have to buy to?
Like for you to put makeup on me? Let's just
(52:30):
get that out of the way. No foreplay, Like, what's
the thing it's fifty seventy two lip glasses, just make
up my face and it didn't matter who did it.
I didn't know there was a difference in good glam
bag lamp. Someone did your phrase, then you didn't went
to one of the events. The idea that every day
to be filmed, that you would be in makeup, hair
and makeup was or clothing that you thought about was preposterous.
(52:51):
I was in a Ralph Lauren like thrift store turquoise
sweater in the interviews and no makeup on like so
now Erica Jane and you know Dord and these costumes
and it's totally different. But to answer your question coming back,
I knew a friend this is T inside T so
I knew a friend who knew christin Takeman, who was
(53:13):
one of the new housewives, and he said to me,
her husband, who's a friend of his, says, she's in
hair and makeup every day scenes. And I'm like, well,
that's not going to be good because then it's not
about what you look like, like it's about what we're
talking about in the content versus like if you're focused
first season in on your shoes and your elaborate outfits,
(53:34):
which you could see in the way they were dressing.
Then you're not you're losing the plot. So I remember
coming back and we were in the Berkshires and everybody
had glam team, glam teams and big major outfits like
we're in the Berkshire's. You're not going anywhere. Who's wearing
a ball skirt in the Berkshire. So it was annoying
because I remember calling Andy, I mean, like, what is this.
(53:56):
It's not really but there's everyone's got a glam team
or not, like oh yeah, And when you're in good
one not doing it you then you look like ship
like Denise Richards when she was on the show, coming
in like a normal person in shorts, but everybody's in
a massive gone at the wind costume. So you gotta
don't hit the players. You gotta start put makeup on
(54:16):
because then you feel the pressure. Well, I can't get
up and just be a normal person and come down
and get coffee as if I didn't go through hair
and makeup, but these six other women have just gone through,
you know, two hours of here and makeup. Yeah, Amazon,
But in season three, like you have like even I
think it happens in in scary Island. In that episode
(54:38):
of the one right after Um where they wake Sonya up,
you know, and she's clearly asleep, but no one's there's clear.
It's very real. It feels everyone looks like shit, and
I love it because it's yeah, yeah, But the Glamazons
came in and the whole thing changed, and it's one
of the things I like looking real, Like, let's be
(54:59):
women are watching that that look real. That our home
then of times, but their makeup on. So let's wearing jeans,
people are wearing tanktops, people are wearing normal clothes. They're
not constantly dressed to the nines. Even when you go
to a party, it's like, you have a nice dress,
but it's to get the feeling. We probably bought that
dress somewhere. It wasn't like something a stylist getting you. Yeah,
(55:20):
and it's it's a much better feeling. I prefer I
prefer that. But I need to point out I'm very swollen.
My best friend says, when you're having a girl, you
like blow up and become like you don't even look
like yourself. And I I noticed it. My my daughter
was like, you look pretty. I'm like, I love you,
but I look like a beating because I'm pregnant and
we're doing that. You do not look at all. Well
(55:41):
we're doing in you know, in the interview shot not
the main thing in the intry, in the purple, in
the purple, because that shot months later, when you picking pickups,
you still do that looks like a beast. But it's
not my best and I'm okay, it's so it's not
my best. Um, well, I don't want to, I don't.
(56:01):
I look, this is the longest project you've ever done,
and the longest interview I've ever done, and I'm sorry
it went so but I've most done. My public was
texted me and she was like, good luck. She was like,
have fun. It's all downhill from here with your press,
and she's not wrong. I truly am such a huge fan.
Thank you so much for listening to the first episode
(56:23):
ever of rewives, a rewatch show unlike any other. Please
remember to rate, review, and subscribe, and follow the show's
instagram at rewives with Bethany. There you'll find video clips
from these conversations and sneak peaks at which episode I'm
reliving next
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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