“I want a divorce" with Cheryl Burke

RHOC - S5, E15 “That’s All There Is”

This episode had its serious trigger moments for both Cheryl and Bethenny.

They reveal what moments resonated with them and why. Plus, find out what happened to make them believe the production should have been immediately shut down and what the lasting effects of it have been.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:04):
It's the season five finale of Real Housewives of Orange
County and possibly one of Tamar's most gut wrenching moments.
The party goes on after Tamar tells Simon she wants
a divorce, Our slave and Gretchen getting married, Our Linz kids,
out of control. Professional ballroom dancer and host of the
iHeart podcast Sex Lies and Spray Tans, Cheryl Burke joins

(00:27):
me to break down this episode. This is Real Housewives
of Orange County Season five, episode fifteen. Is that all
there is? Let's go okay? So, how familiar are you
with the housewives? Are you fluent or you speak the language?

(00:50):
What do you know?

Speaker 2 (00:51):
Well? I'm pretty I mean, look, I know some of
them on a personal level because they did Dancing with
the Stars. But I also, I would say, back in
my drinking days, I've been sober for five and a
half years, this would be the show I would watch,
like come stumbling in and like just recovering. It made
me feel better about myself.

Speaker 1 (01:11):
So do you remember this era? Because this is we're
watching Real Houses of Orange Cage season five, episode fifteen,
You remember it?

Speaker 2 (01:19):
No? I don't remember that because I was like, wait,
did Tabra, did she just get married again? Like I
was so confused there for a odd second that I
was like, oh, it's season five.

Speaker 1 (01:29):
Well, let me just put this in perspective for people.
I was only on for three seasons the first time,
and I was called this like iconic housewife, this whole thing.
And it's funny because this is five seasons and it
feels like it's in the Cave era. The way everybody dressed,
the way they look, this feels like the has to
be the first season ever.

Speaker 2 (01:48):
So it looks like black and white. Almost like same
thing with Dancing with the Stars. When you even just
a YouTube like me and Drew Lachet second season and
what nineteen sixty five, it's like, literally, wow, so crazy.

Speaker 1 (02:01):
That's funny. And I also do think of the Housewives
like Dancing with the Stars. People who are on it
and in that world, not unlike Bachelor Nation, think that
everybody knows what's going on. I have no idea what's
going on right now on the back or Dancing with
the Stars, and you don't know what's going on now
on the Housewives, But they're so self involved with their
own sphere that Housewives gets so true stress thinks that

(02:25):
everybody knows what's going on with them.

Speaker 2 (02:27):
And then with Arianna on this season. You know, it's
interesting because like, look, if I wasn't if my new job,
which was podcasting, didn't relate to Dancing with the Stars,
there's no way in hell I'd be watching same things.
Oh no, just because I'm still grieving, you know, like
I'm literally still grieving. It's and and if anything, though,
this is kind of like meant to be because I'm
a professional runaway from my feelings number person, So like

(02:49):
this is actually in a weird way, it's very healing,
but also, you know traumatic, sometimes.

Speaker 1 (02:54):
You're still grieving from reality TV, you're still deep programming.

Speaker 2 (02:58):
Yeah, I mean also, you know, though it was my
decision is irrelevant, Like I was saying to Leah Remedi
who just did my podcast, like it's just been It's
interesting because I'm literally, I am actually feeling these feelings
and I have a mic in my mouth.

Speaker 1 (03:10):
Basically, well, you're feeling the feelings. And I think that
talking about this particular episode will bring up different things.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
Oh it did.

Speaker 1 (03:19):
Yeah, that it's on reality TV, So all right, so
I guess we'll get into it. So Tamra, who's not
an original housewife. She came in seasons later. Oh really, yes,
she's not from the beginning. Laurie, who was a guest
on this one, was an original. Gina Kio was only
on for the first couple of seasons.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Wait, who was the one they referred to her as
dancing with the stars? Who was that?

Speaker 3 (03:41):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (03:41):
Who walked Alexis Billino? She did, she had a one shoulder. Yeah,
it's funny that they that's funny. Good job producers picking
up one that has a Dancing with the Stars rest or.

Speaker 2 (03:50):
It's a coincidence, you know, you never know, yes.

Speaker 1 (03:52):
But we'll give them the credit. Alexis is not original,
Vicki's original, Gina's original, Laurie's original. Tamar joined season three,
and people like Tamra and Sonya don't like that they're
not OG's. It just bothers them because they feel so
og and the audience kind of thinks of them as og.

Speaker 2 (04:09):
But so, wait, what is your definition of an og?
Because like we had this whole debate when I had
Louis ars podcast. Yeah, very first, not even the second season. No,
oh shit, then I'm not an og.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
Oh I'm sorry.

Speaker 2 (04:21):
Yeah, I have. I mean no, you're right though, No,
if we're gonna do that like that, then yet, no,
I'm not no matter if I've done twenty three seasons
of Dancing with the Stars or not. I guess it does. Yeah,
I guess not.

Speaker 1 (04:31):
No, you me hall of fame, but you're not og
I'm I'm.

Speaker 2 (04:34):
A old person there. Yeah, I'm a.

Speaker 1 (04:36):
Fraud because I was only ever on eight seasons, which
isn't that much in the grand scheme of this thing
that people act like. It defines me less.

Speaker 2 (04:44):
Total total got it? But you started first season.

Speaker 1 (04:48):
I started first season and I left after three, which
is very early if you think about it.

Speaker 2 (04:53):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (04:53):
So, so Tamor is a new house so act she
came in like I, you know, may not be the
youngest housewife, but I'm hottest. She was very into being
a hot housewife.

Speaker 2 (05:03):
Uh yeah. Her husband triggered the shit out of me.

Speaker 1 (05:06):
Yeah, and me too, Oh my god. And I like that.
You know, people wanna get upset when people are super
confident and they're just like, I'm pretty, I look great.
I think she needs that, and you come on the
show some sometimes to get that. And she's obviously in
a bad marriage. And so I like that she came
in like, Hi, I'm hot, that's my thing. That's okay.

Speaker 2 (05:28):
So that was it. That was like what you saw.
That was the first impression of her, basically right, because
it was like episode five or No. Fifteen or something.

Speaker 1 (05:35):
But I think her tagline was always something about being hot. Yeah,
and like it's just a I just it's sort of
like selfies. I always found it slightly cringe but yet
confident when women are just like I'm going to be
the youngest, but I'm the hottest. Like that seems like
opening the door a disaster.

Speaker 2 (05:54):
Don't think like that, Like I'm not, like I literally
don't walk in a room like I am the prettiest woman.
Like no, I don't understand, Like I don't understand that mentality,
but I love it. Maybe it's because I don't love
myself enough. I don't know, but like you know, I
do appreciate it.

Speaker 1 (06:10):
I'm not vain and I am very confident. But I
don't think of that either. I think that you should
always want to be the most interesting yes person in
the room, not the hottest.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Who can strike up the most interesting conversation, who can
banter back, who's sarcastic. That's like, for me more interesting.
Who's an addict? I love me some addicts. I'm one.
So it's very very interesting, Like the conversations are very interesting.

Speaker 1 (06:34):
I was recently with a group of girls, like thirty
young women that were gorgeous at this event, and all
of them were like single and depressed about it. And
I thought of the fact that most people lead with
their hotness or want to lead with physical and think
that that's the solution. But men or you know, partners

(06:55):
are not attracted to hot They're attracted to energy and confidence,
and like, yeah, someone's owning the room. And I think
that's a big mistake that young women make. And I
really instill that in my daughter.

Speaker 2 (07:04):
Yeah, oh that's great. You're a great mom. But you know,
I wish my you know, it's not like I wish
my mom did. It's just ballroom dancing, right, You're already
going there and it's very it is material, but you
don't put on the glitter and the spray tands until
you've done the blood, sweat and tears in the rehearsal space.
So there's like a good balance of like you're not
even gonna put the lashes on if you're not an
expert at what you do, so like that's the reward

(07:27):
in a way. But when it goes back, when you
go back to what you were saying, it's the women
that you were saying that they were single and depressed.
It's because of the fact that they were just not
enjoying their own company. Like the alone wasn't that they
weren't okay with being alone. They were just lonely, you.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Know, and leading with the superficials what you're saying, it's
not it's the frosting and it's great. It's not the life,
it's the lifestyle. Like you can have you can make
a lifestyle out of a life that you can't make
a life out of a life totally. So all right,
so we'll talk about later. How many of these couples

(08:06):
do not exist anymore. It's scary. The rate of breakups
and divorces is greater and more rapid on the housewives
than the average, which is like fifty sixty percent. I
always find it interesting I see this with kids and
partners on reality TV, where you can't believe they're saying

(08:26):
these things on camera because they know that it's going
to air, But I sometimes feel like each partner is
using the audience, Like sometimes it happens with a therapist.
You go with your partner to the therapist, and you
want the therapists to agree with you or like you more,
take your side. And I feel like Simon is really
trying to get the audience to hate her, to hate Tamera.

Speaker 2 (08:47):
But can you manipulate I guess you can. Actually you
probably could manipulate it because what they have on tape
is what they haven't too well.

Speaker 1 (08:53):
Kids Also, you'll see it happened recently with Garcell where
the kids sort of said some raw stuff a clip
of it, and you're like, these kids resent this lifestyle.
Of course another has, and so they're gonna dig when
they have to work. And it feels like Simon is emasculated.
He's obviously not working sheet she let us know. And
sometimes the lesser financially confident spouse exerts their power. Yeah,

(09:21):
in this way, the man feels inferior. And a show
like this, this happened with Nannie and Greg, A show
like this brings that to light. When now she's getting
any attention, she's making your own money, And it seems
like Simon really just does not want her to pop
out of the whack of mop.

Speaker 2 (09:34):
His fault is that I hate when men say you
make me. First of all, I can't make you feel
like anything, and you know that it all starts with you,
so you're making yourself feel like it. But you could
change it if you'd like. You could maybe get a job.
You know, you've got two hands, two legs, two eyes,
two ears. You know, maybe even if you don't, it
doesn't matter, you could still work like you could actually

(09:57):
work like people who say, I blame you for making
me feel like I have no gohons you know what?

Speaker 3 (10:03):
Yes?

Speaker 2 (10:04):
Something?

Speaker 1 (10:04):
No, you're trig No, you're you're you're you hit you
hit it, you hit you hit it?

Speaker 2 (10:09):
Okay, yeah, Like, but that's the thing. It's like my therapist.
And though it took me a while to get it
through my head, like I would always blame somebody for
the way I felt, but it's not that they're making
me feel it. I am being triggered by what they're saying.
Because if some old past trauma that I haven't dealt with,
if you think about it, like for example, like something
I say to you may not affect you, like if

(10:31):
I said, if I said it to Leah, you know,
like for example.

Speaker 1 (10:34):
Yes, yes, Well there was a guy who came on
here and he said in his relationship, I don't fix you,
I fixed me about his wife, meaning like you can
only work on yourself. And it's funny because I had
an ex through this process who used to say to me,
I did this show, I'm doing this show for you,
and what happens if I can't support myself and wanted
me to sign something in a post up sign something

(10:55):
that said I would take care of them, and I
felt very responsible. And when we used to talk about career,
they used to say, I'm not like you, I'm not
lucky enough to have found And I was like, whoa.

Speaker 2 (11:07):
Oh no, yeah. I feel like there's a script for
a lot of these types of men because they say
the same thing. It's the same thing I've I've had
a few.

Speaker 1 (11:18):
Yeah, yes, the man who's emasculated, it's very different.

Speaker 2 (11:22):
That's not my fault, though, it's it's interesting, it.

Speaker 1 (11:25):
May be your fault because in the sense that you
can't choose someone who can't support themselves and think that
that's going to work in a relationship for you.

Speaker 2 (11:35):
Okay, I'm a bad picker. Yes, I will definitely take accountability.
But this is the person who's going to continue acting
like this? Then is it just a it's a it's
not like it. Only you can change yourself, right, So
I think that, look, I shouldn't. I should have seen
the red flags. Absolutely, but clearly I also learned a
very valuable lesson recently that I can't buy love. So

(11:57):
like for me, that was a huge and I had
I had to go through my past experiences to realize this.
You know, it was an expensive lesson.

Speaker 1 (12:06):
But I can't buy love, and you also will get
noisy about it. It will turn you off. We cannot
think that you're right, It just will turn you off.
You think it's okay in the beginning because it seems
it's magical thinking. But let me just say this. You
can't expect a dog to be a cat.

Speaker 2 (12:24):
Obviously. Yes, I know it sounds so simple. And also
I have to let go of my control thinking that
I can. You know, I don't think I think like this. Now.
It's been a couple of years since I've dated or
I was married, you know, so it took a couple
of years for me. I wouldn't. I actually don't know
because I haven't dated too much to know, But I
am really trying to rewire my brain so that I

(12:46):
don't continue to go down that same pattern.

Speaker 1 (12:50):
You know, Yes, I totally know. And it might not
be as exciting sometimes in a balance it's not as sexy,
but it's it's more or it's comforting, and it's better
for their emotional well being exactly. It's what used to
be good now is great. Like it used to be
that everything had to be like, you know, fireworks and

(13:11):
passion and riding one hundred miles an hour, and now
it's like good, No, yeah, good and solid is great.
So Slade is an interesting example on this show. I
have met him and talked to him off the show
obviously because I'm not on the show. And he's smart,
he's knowledgeable. And what's ironic is they got so much
shit and he's still with her. Yeah, they're still together.

(13:36):
Tamra's not with her guide. I think Lauri is with
her guy Lynn. I don't know, Alexis isn't with her guy.
And Slade and Gretchen are still together. And yes, he
did date several housewives. Maybe that was his circle Ramona
and Luanne and Sonia have all dated the same people
because the Upper east Side is like Orange County, so
it might have just been his circle. But I like that.

(13:56):
I like that, like it was really up they were
up against it. And there's still together.

Speaker 2 (14:01):
I mean, that's to honestly get through. How many years
have they been on the Housewives? Now, like twenty thousand
years they're still together. That says a lot.

Speaker 1 (14:09):
Well, this is twenty ten, so this had to be
shot in two thousand and nine. They've been together, still together, right,
That's what I'm saying. They've been together like almost fifteen years.
That's what's amazing. It's amazing this town exactly on that town. Yeah,
he's wearing a tank top. The next time I see him,
I'll be talking about that as a big problem.

Speaker 2 (14:27):
But I'm so used to guys wearing nothing like because
I'm you know, on Dancing with the Stars, it is
pretty much that like you're either shirtless for men, or
you've got like someone like Glebes to have chenko walking
around with his calendar of his of himself modeling underwear.

Speaker 3 (14:44):
You know.

Speaker 2 (14:44):
So it's like, but that's who we are as dancers.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Honestly, shirtless is better than a tank that looks like
you're slinging pizzas.

Speaker 2 (14:52):
It depends on what your arms look like.

Speaker 1 (14:54):
Yeah, that's it does. This was two thousand and six,
so that's when.

Speaker 2 (14:58):
I started Dancing with the stars.

Speaker 1 (14:59):
Oh oh, they've been together seventeen years, am I adding? Right, Okay,
that's crazy, all right. So so now Tamar, who I've
seen since, and she's gone through a lot of different iterations,
from being very religious to the religion of working out
and meeting her new husband Eddie, who I give them
a lot of credit. They've been together for a long time.
Seeing her, whether she's polarizing or not, which she is.

(15:22):
She definitely has a light now, she has like a
fire in her She's dead in this episode, Like she's not.
She's like, it's like gray, it's like a cloud. I've
been there where you're like a dead person.

Speaker 2 (15:31):
Well, she's scared of her ex husband. I get it, Like,
it's not she's not. She can't be her authentic self.
First of all, I don't know if she knew who
that was back then, and everything that she does, she's
getting picked on. Listen, I've had this exact relationship. That's
why I was triggered, you know. Wow, going back to
that conversation of being triggered, some people may not be
triggered by that, but I am because I my pattern

(15:55):
was of dating very abusive mentally, and in high school
a few were physical, uh, physically abusive, but this was
just what felt like home because of the trauma that
I dealt with when I was a little girl. So
for me, you know, it was the fireworks. Though it
wasn't healthy, but I didn't. I couldn't comprehend that I

(16:17):
thought that this was what it was. Because when you're
when you see something growing up, or when you've been
sexually abused like I was when I was a little girl,
you tend to I'm not going to just be general.
I'll just speak for myself, but like I tend to
think that someone controlling me or someone manipulating me definitely
is love, you know. So I'm really rewiring my brain.

Speaker 1 (16:40):
That's very common for the highs and the lows. The
roller coaster. The next day, I'm so sorry the presence
came and soone cheats on you.

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Speaker 1 (18:15):
So, I mean, I've been on reality TV and I've
been the villain. I've been on both sides it is.
I'm gonna say that let's reserve a little bit for
we don't know what he's going through. But what I'm
seeing in that closet is he is.

Speaker 2 (18:27):
A dick, Like he's an ass.

Speaker 1 (18:30):
He is a dick who is criticizing everything she's wearing,
trying to get us to agree with him, or get
men to agree that white women are sluts who dressed
inappropriately and he's wearing a purple Paisley shirt.

Speaker 2 (18:43):
In that process, they actually couldn't even look at him.
I was just I actually I couldn't look that like
at whatever whatever I was watching. But honestly, what I mean,
if he's like that in front of the cameras, what
is he like buying closed doors? That's the who the
same thing?

Speaker 1 (18:57):
Scary one rat, they're ten thousand. I thought that the
same god thing got chills. And she says cheers to
my slutty dress. Now the other thing is.

Speaker 2 (19:09):
It wasn't even that slutty.

Speaker 1 (19:12):
It wasn't that slutty. And they're, you know, in aren't
country Body.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
Yeah, she looks crazy.

Speaker 1 (19:18):
She's forty two. And it's very very dated, and that
everyone's in a stretch limo. That's just very aren't here,
It's very dated. But they have this insane argument that
this is interesting. I think that what I've been saying
with the reality reckoning and the exploitation of not only

(19:41):
people but the kids who aren't compensated. And we'll get
into the kids in the kid's part later, but the
husbands who aren't compensated, I still.

Speaker 2 (19:50):
Think no husband is compensated. None.

Speaker 1 (19:53):
In Jersey, I think that the husbands are also part
of the cast. They're very like, they do their own interviews,
and New York they weren't. So I think it's different
for different cities and different dynamics. But I do not
believe that the husbands on this show were compensated. And
this there is a line and it does get crossed.
But for me, this limo argument, this closet argument, this

(20:13):
is exploring a dynamic that we can all relate to.
It's not exploiting. This to me is the line like
when I talk about it and people think I want
to like shuck down reality TV. I think it's great
if people want to be on reality TV.

Speaker 2 (20:23):
I just think I stand with you, girl, right, I
stand people to you. I completely stand with you, like
thank you.

Speaker 1 (20:32):
Well, people should be explored, not exploited.

Speaker 2 (20:35):
Absolutely well, they need to give us a warning at
least this is going to be a trigger warning, like
something's got to give, Like we've got to be educated then,
like something has to happen.

Speaker 1 (20:43):
You know what, You're right, And they should have had
in between commercials if you're experiencing domessage.

Speaker 2 (20:47):
Up so the number to call, Like it's crazy that
they don't do that.

Speaker 1 (20:52):
And emotional abuse is they say as damaging as physical,
which is hard for people to hear. And I don't
know if that's true, but let's say.

Speaker 2 (20:59):
Sometimes it's worse, sometimes worse. I've had have had it both,
and it's sometimes worse.

Speaker 1 (21:04):
Right because it's it's a long stematic yeah, systematic, and
you don't realize it's coming. It's like gaining a quarter
of a pound every month. You don't see it, and
then one day you've gained twenty pounds.

Speaker 2 (21:15):
It's like yeah, and so it's a mental It's like,
I know people over use it, but narcissists, you know,
being gaslighted, like it's just the whole thing. It's it's
like it's a manipulation, especially for like they tend to
go after people who may have anxious attachments, you know,
which I which I am full of anxious attachment, so

(21:35):
abandonment issues, who's been abused when she's a little girl,
Like it's that, it's it's just they tend to.

Speaker 1 (21:41):
Just you are right. And it's funny because so this
is an example of me saying they're riding right up
to the line, but as responsible adults that signed releases,
they're exploring what's going on with their relationship. They're choosing
to share that. I don't think so people who want
to go on reality TV. I don't think that it
should be all like Hallmark Channel. I'm just saying, no,

(22:02):
you ride up to the line, you don't cross it, right.

Speaker 2 (22:04):
But where is there a fine line of also protection
like in general, right, Like you would think that especially
with the cast, like there's no protection, like there's the network. Look,
I worked for NBC. I took a break from Dancing
with the Stars, I did a show called I Can
Do That with like Joe Jonas, Sierra, Nicole Scherzinger or whatever,
and then working for that network versus ABC was such

(22:28):
a huge Like I'm not saying that either or protected
me more or less, but the treatment, like the little things, right,
like what do you want for lunch?

Speaker 3 (22:39):
Or like.

Speaker 2 (22:41):
You know, we would reshoot things if you didn't look good.
Like at the end of the day, we all have
the same goal, right, whether it's a dance show, whether
it's live or not, it's irrelevant, Like we all want
to make the show look good as a whole. That's
why we work so hard. And I think that sometimes
it gets lost in translation a little bit, you know,
as to like, yeah, are we a producer, Like what

(23:03):
are we? You know? Like, yeah, we just the second
just the dancer, which is fine. I totally get it,
but there is a fine like you can't also ignore us,
like we're also part of this partnership.

Speaker 1 (23:14):
Yeah, I just I think that this scene is triggering
but good to watch. It's a cautionary tale and we're
having a conversation that I think is important. Now there
she's now the chor issues are coming out. You go
fuck yourself, she says to him. And if you are
working and making money, now when you've said this on TV,

(23:34):
you are at the brink, Like maybe this is her
saying I'm going to go on this ride because I
know I'm getting divorced, so it doesn't matter. Break all
the glasses in the house, like she has to be
in this scene knowing this isn't going to work. And
it's funny that you just use the word gas lighting
because that word wasn't used back then. And I he
is the classic case. He resents her. He wants the

(23:56):
audience to hate her, and he is vying for our
attention by saying nasty things. And then when they how
triggering was when they get out of the car, No,
it's like, no, I love you like I just hit you,
but I love you.

Speaker 2 (24:11):
Like he grabbed her a couple of times.

Speaker 1 (24:15):
This becomes a foreshadowing because he sides with Gina and
becomes like friends with Gina, and it becomes a major
early was trying to No, I don't think so. I
think he just wants to still be close to this
situation or you know, it's a small community. These are
gated communities.

Speaker 2 (24:32):
I did Teddy's and Tamra's podcast, like I would say,
a couple of years ago now, and she did talk
this is when I was fresh off my separation, and
Tama did refer back to this.

Speaker 1 (24:42):
Yeah. And I also think she's spinning out in the
scene because she's aware that now he's questioned her motherhood
and who knows, maybe she's not with her kids a
lot because he's a nightmare and he's hovering over the
kids a lot of times. Husbands want to overcompensate during
times of divorce and because they want to seem like
the super parent and get the kids to like them more.

(25:04):
It's really a lot. There's a lot of dynamics. But
whatever it is, she got triggered and does later in
the years on the show about her as a parent,
and she ended up having some issues with one of
her daughters, which is her own business. And that might
be a line where you are exploiting, we are You're
going too far to me.

Speaker 2 (25:22):
I'm happy I don't have kids. I mean, I'm not
happy I don't have kids, but I'm happy I didn't
have kids. I guess because that is I can only
imagine how complicated, that is. But I also I wonder
if she decided to say this all on camera so
that she held herself accountable for getting to get a divorce.
You know what I'm saying, because it's like, it's one
thing when you're not when you're hide egged. Maybe maybe not,

(25:43):
but then it's one thing to say it and to
allow it to happen, because now you have to that exactly.

Speaker 1 (25:48):
She told everybody that exactly exactly, so they're out of
the car, and then he's like he's trying to pretend
that he cares, but he can't even hold on to
that long enough to say, where's your ring?

Speaker 2 (26:01):
I know, but I know it so well. I don't
want to label him a narcissis, but I am basically
saying there's traits of.

Speaker 1 (26:08):
No, he's really by the way. I know it too.
I know it too. I had a miscarriage and someone
said to me, you're a piece of shit after it
because I knew we were in a bad place in
our relationship. I didn't like the secret abuse. It's usually
the abuse is something that is secret. You're very charming
and captivating at a party with everybody else. Hey, Dan,

(26:29):
has your golf game at home. Though, it's the comments,
it's the digs, it's the abuse I totally experienced.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
Or not letting her wear what she wants, or not
letting her have friends because she was having that. You
know that that happens.

Speaker 1 (26:42):
Totally and I love you, but get your priorities straight.
He said, Oh, he took no responsibility for any of it.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
It's all just you just need to act like a wife.
He said. I'm like, what the hell does that mean?
What does that mean? What does that mean? That's so triggeric?
I can't extensions.

Speaker 1 (26:59):
It's and then give me a kiss.

Speaker 2 (27:02):
Ew I was sorry.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
I discribed that was like being violated God.

Speaker 2 (27:08):
And she divorced him. I'm assuming soon after, right.

Speaker 1 (27:11):
Yeah, at the end of this episode they say they
filed for divorce and I wrote down that what goes
on off camera must be out of control.

Speaker 2 (27:20):
And then her friend, if Vicky was was telling her like,
you've got to stick up for me if your husbands
in the wrong, and then saying to her as well,
like you need to be your own woman. And he
hated that. So that's why they gotten that fight.

Speaker 1 (27:32):
Think, oh, interesting, you're right, and even the way she
was he had to make a snide calm and he
was like Vicky's leading Don. Don and Vicky are also divorced.
They had a whole like renewing of their vows seasons
before this and renewed their love tank was empty, so
they filled up their love tank and she works a
lot that like their love tank was on empty, wasn't

(27:57):
full of love. And that's the guy Don. But I
liked on like I like it.

Speaker 2 (28:03):
I don't know. He rubs me the wrong he always did,
not now, but like he did rub me the wrong way.
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (28:07):
The other one like this A little slightly like this too.

Speaker 2 (28:10):
No, just a little bit like I just wonder if
he was like an opportunist type.

Speaker 1 (28:16):
I don't know. I think they probably joined this thing
together as an opportunity.

Speaker 2 (28:21):
Oh really, yeah, because.

Speaker 1 (28:22):
In the beginning it's kind of like you get paid
nothing and you both have to be on board.

Speaker 2 (28:26):
And he joined you get paid nothing like zero dollars.

Speaker 1 (28:29):
I got paid hundred fifty dollars and I was after them.
So the first episode no season what what? Yeah? Legal,
I mean, there's it has to be legal because it's
not a workplace. It's not a legal workplace.

Speaker 2 (28:45):
Thousand for how many episodes does that that's.

Speaker 1 (28:47):
I think it was the first twelve, but they probably
added like several or maybe it was eight and they
added four.

Speaker 2 (28:52):
It was you know, yeah, total total, seventh total season.

Speaker 1 (28:55):
Contract said, yeah, but that's the Bethany clause. When I
saw that number, I said, I don't care about that.
I only care that no one can ever take a
piece of my business. And that's what the Bethany clause
is about.

Speaker 2 (29:06):
So that's a real thing.

Speaker 1 (29:07):
Good for you, Yeah, because I crossed that out. So,
and it's not that every single every single person does
sign it, but networks aren't really auditing that. But if
somebody goes and sells their company for one hundred million dollars,
then they are going to go audit that.

Speaker 2 (29:22):
Then the union, are you.

Speaker 1 (29:25):
No, it's not a union, not union. So and Laurie
was an og I told you better. She comes in
with her second husband.

Speaker 2 (29:32):
They do like they're coming out of Dancing of the Stars. Though,
it's so funny the.

Speaker 1 (29:36):
Ten ten slacked.

Speaker 2 (29:39):
Chanelle gl like tight dance pants, yeah, Cuban heels like
those heels for men, yes.

Speaker 1 (29:47):
Exactly, Like everyone looks like they're on an episode dancing
with stars as a dancer, like tuxedo pants. It's the
worst style, Joe, Like, it's like shiny polish. It's so bad.
It's so crazy. It's so bad.

Speaker 2 (30:02):
And I mean, if they were dancing, it would look better.

Speaker 1 (30:05):
I'm just saying yeah, because you lean into it.

Speaker 2 (30:08):
They were good dancing. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (30:09):
Yeah. It was like a costume They were all wearing
costumes and it wasn't a costume party.

Speaker 2 (30:13):
And it is back then. That was in two thousand and.

Speaker 1 (30:15):
Six, I know, and like the same Regis is gorgeous
and it didn't deserve that, Like, you know, they didn't
deserve it. It looked so beautiful and so polished and
clean and like waspy, and they just were like what
they had like grease on them, all of them. They
all looked so shellacked and chanelled.

Speaker 2 (30:33):
I had a dance studio in Orange County. I'm just like,
I love people, I love the people, but I'm just
not an Orange you know.

Speaker 1 (30:39):
So Laurie's shit stirring. She just walks up to Gretchen
and she's like, yeah, by the way, I did date him,
Like what upside is there for that?

Speaker 2 (30:46):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (30:47):
So what you're not even good friends with her. What
do you give a shit?

Speaker 2 (30:49):
Who's but a producer told her to say this. I listen,
I took over for Abby Lee Miller for Dance Moms,
And now that was crazy, like because I I was
on a reality show. But it's not really. I would
say it's more a variety show because it's not as
like it's not live like that, right, like we're not
using our mouths so much as our bodies, like as
far as like our rehearsal goes. So the package is

(31:12):
there's so much happening in that rehearsal time for four days,
as you know, you did skating with the stars, but
then they cut it however they want to cut it right,
and then like when we're live, they don't ask the
dancers anything and it's just about the reactions that that
they get and how hard we worked and then the performance.
So it's like, but on Dance Moms, they were full
on whispering in my ear what to say the.

Speaker 1 (31:34):
Mom oh wow, this yeah, this happens in the car
before people get out, or they could pull you aside
at a party in another room. But it's like, hey,
remember to talk to Gretcha about the fact that you
dated a slade, and I would not always like, if
someone tells men to say something, I'm not necessarily going
to say it. I did say a lot. I didn't
mention at all. But this reminded me of when I

(31:56):
met Paul, when we got started to get serious. You
know how other women are about a woman who gets
like a good guy who's smart but looking and wealthy.
It's like Piranha's blood in the water. And I remember
this woman that I like and I'm and she didn't
realize she was saying something about it. She's like, oh,
do you know anyone like I'm trying to date And
she said, oh, how are you? I heard you're dating

(32:17):
you know Paul And she said, oh yeah, I matched
with him on Riyah. But we just never got to
get what.

Speaker 2 (32:22):
The ho hell says that this girl? And it's like
your friend is she.

Speaker 1 (32:27):
Not good friend?

Speaker 3 (32:28):
No?

Speaker 1 (32:29):
Like, I mean I know I know her better than
I know you. Now you wouldn't say that to me.

Speaker 2 (32:33):
Hell hell no, Like that is so wrong. That is
just not etiquette. You don't do that.

Speaker 3 (32:40):
No.

Speaker 1 (32:40):
It made me feel like he was like, you'se goods
and she only matched with him like he was on
an app. It's how we met. Like I matched with
people too. If someone said to him, oh, I match
with Bethany, I just didn't have time to meet her,
he'd feel lesser.

Speaker 2 (32:51):
Then why say that? I hate when women are like that,
Like why can't we just all root for each other?
Like that's the thing. It's just so nasty.

Speaker 1 (32:59):
It's own nasty, and resenting other people is like poison,
and it does poison. It is you and poisons says it. Yeah,
so Laurie doesn't seem that happy either, but I don't
know her, and I think she's still with her guy.
And that was just that's also a former house so
it probably wants to be relevant in this current episode
and just is like, let me just do some.

Speaker 2 (33:19):
Real ram When you did the show, I left.

Speaker 1 (33:25):
After three seasons when it was just I mean, we
weren't even making you know, I was probably making one
hundred thousand dollars seventy one hundred Yeah, over a hundred time.

Speaker 2 (33:31):
You must have left because you weren't happy, right.

Speaker 1 (33:33):
Right, And I wasn't rich outside the housewise, I just
wasn't happy. I thought I could see the signs earlier
when you when you what happens is it's a vicious cycle.
So you don't have people binge then starve, then you
feel better when that Then you binge and you comfort yourself,
but then you feel better when you starve. Like it's
a bad cycle and you forget what it was like.
If you remembered how bad you felt when you binge,

(33:54):
you wouldn't do it again. But you do do it again.
And because it's a bad cycle. That's what reality TV is.
Whether Tamra or Kyle, or Luan or Erica all want
to pretend that when Kyle realized her screamed her sister,
you're an alcoholic, or when Luan got arrested, or when
Erica had her husband being investigated, all these things, they

(34:15):
wanted to leave. They've all wanted to leave Lisa vander Pump,
everyone hated her, Ninni, her husband had cancer. They all
wanted to leave. But what happens is you've got to
support yourself. The fame is a drug.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
I was gonna say it's it's addicting like it is.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
And you get rinsed off just enough after a season
and after it's airing to have a couple of months
to just relax. You forget and you crave the fame
again and the relevant because you are the attention. You're
not as relevant when you're not on it, and when
you are.

Speaker 2 (34:46):
On it that relevant. I really hate that word.

Speaker 1 (34:48):
I know, but you're.

Speaker 2 (34:50):
Not so nasty, like, yes, but you are relevant. But
in this world that like Hollywood and entertainment in the
reality side, Yes, I.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
Hear you topic currently relevant in the pop culture's sphere.
And also if you crave just attention on a small scale,
like someone's putting a microphone on you, someone's talking to you,
they're coming to your house. I despise having cameras at
my house, Like that's my one of my biggest problems.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
I did like actually still hey, like it's.

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Funny because it triggered me. The other day I had
a camera crew here for a very elevated show. Like
lately I've been doing New York Magazine and Vanity Fair
Nightline and like Chris Wallace and c and then like
real stuff. And it doesn't matter who it is. When
a camera's in my space and there are producers, I
feel violated and it brings me right back to them,
just like taping up being in your bathroom. You're in

(35:42):
your underwear. You want. You know that you're getting paid,
so they're supposed to be there, but you feel like
someone is in your purse digging through it.

Speaker 2 (35:49):
No, I think you're right, and then I can just
add on to that, like it gets me really bitchy.
I'm and I'm not bitchy, Like I'm very very polite.
You know, back in the day because of the abuse,
I couldn't talk in front of the camera, like I've
gone through some major media training, I guess you could
say from when I started the show, because it was
like live media training, like I had to drink. I

(36:13):
didn't have to, but I did. I had to drink
before my master interviews because I couldn't say fucking complete sentence.

Speaker 1 (36:19):
Yeah. So to answer your question, was I happy? I
can have been happy because I left after three years
and the only thing that got me back was money,
an unprecedented amount that Bravo was paying per episode. That
was an offer I couldn't refuse, of course, and then
each year the money got more and so I just
stayed as long as I possibly could without it being
I mean, there's a head of the entertainment industry, like

(36:41):
one of a big powerhouse guy that's like top twenty
most powerful in Hollywood on lists, And he said to me,
soon it's going to be a situation where like people
are just thinking, why the hell is she doing this,
Like it doesn't make any sense that you're there, and
not because I'm better then just because it's really gross.
My daughter thinks it's embarrassing and trashy. That's what she says.

(37:04):
And she's not a judgmental kid. Yeah, she's like, it's mom,
it's embarrassing and it's trashy. Yeah, thirteen, So it's embarrassing
and it's trashy. You could you could cover it in
as much frosting as you want.

Speaker 2 (37:14):
I think my team pitched me to do The Housewives,
and I guess it's meant to be that they weren't
even like I don't see you see it's hard, Like
I don't know if I could do that, Like I
see Lisa, so I know Lisa Renna, I know Lisa
vander Pump, I know Erica. It just it's a lot
like I think for me, I don't know if I
would have any setus. I don't know if it would

(37:37):
fill me up.

Speaker 1 (37:38):
Listen, it's tempting I see why women.

Speaker 2 (37:41):
Want it, though, way if the money's not good, I
don't know.

Speaker 1 (37:43):
Well, the money at the beginning stages is not. But
certain people like Teddy really wants to be on. She
loves to be in that sphere. Yes, Lisa Renna really
has experienced an awakening because she was really fully immersed
in the machine and having left, it's you know, changed
her family and and you can see.

Speaker 2 (38:03):
She still does QVC, right, isn't she still She.

Speaker 1 (38:05):
Doesn't still do QVC And that also is a separate
bag of difficulty. I've been through that whole machine that's
been possible. I'd rather do the housewives and.

Speaker 2 (38:14):
I couldn't hit their freaking goals like are you kidd ach?

Speaker 1 (38:19):
But just the feeling and the neon lights and six
hours of talking, I don't That's not for me. That's
sole crushing to me. I don't like doing that. And
they're lovely people. It has nothing to do with that,
totally not for me. Lynn's daughters at.

Speaker 2 (38:32):
Oh my gosh, it's like that's the thing that's another
trigger warning or don't do it. You shouldn't err that,
like nowadays you couldn't do that shit.

Speaker 1 (38:42):
I don't think, oh Okay, it's funny that you say that.
So the daughter's drunk. Now, there's a couple of things
that you do and don't know. The first thing is
that the daughter is drunk and we've been told that
she's seventeen. I agree with you. That's where you've crossed
the line. Now you're exploiting. Number one, These kids are
not being paid even for future trust. Number two, what

(39:03):
you missed is that the parents just got a VICTI
from their home on camera. God, that's another line. Wait, really,
that's why they're talking about finances. Yeah, that's a line crossed.
Tamera and Simon arguing like like a couple does not normal,
but like couples do. That's to adults. That's exploring exploitation.

(39:26):
Is a seventeen year old a seventeen year old girls
drinking and the cameras aren't stopping to intervene and saying
we cannot be part of this at all.

Speaker 2 (39:33):
They kept going, I was like, okay, okay, it's a liability.

Speaker 1 (39:38):
What about that if that girl drives? I mean, it's
it's a liability. It's like seventeen, it's a liability. And
the crew that's when they should stop. So when they say, now, oh,
there's no problem with alcohol on sets, despite putting out
statements that they're changing the whole entire process because of

(39:59):
the reality reckoning. It's total bullshit and we can't hide
this episode. There's a young girl who's drunk at a
party and the cameras keep rolling.

Speaker 2 (40:08):
Wait, so they that's illegal though, so they don't get
in trouble.

Speaker 1 (40:12):
I don't know what happens.

Speaker 2 (40:13):
No production, shit gets shut down, Like that's illegal.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
Production should gets shut down? But like, also what about Well,
I'm gonna tell you a couple of stories. So number one,
both of these girls watch their parents get evicted on television.
So many other girls, like Dina Manzo's daughter, has talked
publicly about the fact that she's still traumatized from what
happened to her on reality TV, so has Ali's Aaron.
So these two girls watch their parents get evicted on television.

(40:39):
That's the line crossed. Were wasted and we don't know
were they not a lot? Did they not get into
college because of this? And at the end and the
end credit the outro, it says that she got her license,
but the dad can't afford to buy her a car.
That's the line cross too. It's degrading and disgusting.

Speaker 2 (40:58):
That is so, I mean that is messed up in
your contracts that you sign. I mean, I signed my
life away. The first contract I signed was like a

(41:19):
ten year contract, you know. So it's like but still
there has to be a little tiny claws and fine, right,
like a small print that says you can't exploit people.

Speaker 1 (41:30):
Right and and like intentionally try to yes ruin their lives,
ruin their lives like that, A man, these.

Speaker 2 (41:38):
People are not gonna get employed again, are you kidding?
Like there's no way.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
Like I would hire someone when it said on television
that they couldn't afford a car and they got evicted
from their home. Like it's damaging to the husbands, the
husbands that don't get paid and the kids. It's degrading
to the whole family. And let me tell you a
cautionary tale. Laurie, the one who's on the first season House,
so I have the same thing. Her kids were all exploited.
Her kids have been in an out of trouble with
the law, like big time, like arrests, multiple arrests. Full

(42:05):
rap sheet. These two girls both went into porn. What
both went into porn. The two sisters, Raquela and Alexa,
and both of them have been on the porn track,
and one of them had serious brushes with the law
and had was awarded a settlement because of a police person,

(42:28):
a police person assaulting her. It's a whole disaster. And
that's not what Andy Cohen discusses a Bravo comedy, discusses
that he just wants to be filled with joy because
of how this show has just done so many great
things for so many people. So that's of course a
touching story that everyone's full of joy. But this woman
and her kids are you know, have been through the
ringer and you can't blame the show for everything, but

(42:49):
I bet it didn't help.

Speaker 2 (42:51):
Well are they still on the show?

Speaker 1 (42:52):
No? This is they were fired? Why after this? Yeah,
they were fired after this, and I think the perfect
people have said that that that they were fired also
because I don't want.

Speaker 2 (43:04):
To go that's your liability. It's a liability, the whole thing.

Speaker 1 (43:07):
And to your point about.

Speaker 2 (43:08):
On both sides, Yeah, the mom.

Speaker 1 (43:11):
Is certainly not being a parent. She wants to be
liked by her kids. The father isn't being a parent.
You could see it right there. Like, oh, well, she'll
get older. Like you would shut that down, like I
would shut it down in front of everybody. I would like,
get over here, we are leaving now. This is unacceptable.
I apologize to all of you. This is accept Like
stop the camera.

Speaker 2 (43:31):
I would have been, So why don't they do that?
Because they're scared to lose their job.

Speaker 1 (43:36):
I just think that that's probably everyone seems to think
that's the dynamic that they've had as parents. And it's
funny because, yeah, well you see the daughter saying things
that children they're really smart when they're young, like even
thirteen year old.

Speaker 2 (43:52):
You let me tell you.

Speaker 1 (43:53):
No, I'm saying my daughter will say like, mom, can
we be present right now? Or she'll say to me, yeah,
she'll say can we be present? Or she'll say no.
I feel they see things more clearly because they haven't
been bogged down with language we've all taught them. So
she'll just say like, I feel like, right now, you're
probably a little frustrated about something else, but you're taking
it out on me. Like she'll say something that's evolved.

Speaker 2 (44:15):
She's very do She's not in therapy.

Speaker 1 (44:17):
She is in therapy once once every two weeks, but
these words aren't his words, and they're kind of they're
just her own words. And I'm saying, this girl feelings. Yeah, yeah,
this girl seems like she's.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
Gone through trauma. Who knows what happened to her. By
the way, as a kid, like you know, when I
got sexually abused, it was when my family, my parents
or my stepdad and my mom were working, like trying
to put food on the table. But then you know,
I was being taken care of. You just never know,
and then that obviously is a domino effect. Maybe she
saw things she shouldn't have seen. Maybe you know, we
just don't know.

Speaker 1 (44:51):
Well, you heard her say I want to go home
because they you didn't know that they were just evicted.

Speaker 2 (44:56):
Oh no, I just right, yeah, yes, now I understand.
Oh poor girl.

Speaker 1 (45:03):
Yes, okay, So she said I want to go home,
and she's also saying like I missed the old you
or something to that effect. And to me, that's because
they're on a show and they have to film because
the production insists that the kids film, and the kids
don't get paid, not even in a college or a
trust fund.

Speaker 2 (45:18):
Imagine how these parents feel, like the guilt and the shame,
Like maybe they were thinking they were going to get
a huge payday, and that's why they did this, regardless
of if they got evicted or not. There was no
boundaries for them exactly.

Speaker 1 (45:31):
And it still goes on. In many cases. People saw
the success I had, so they think, let me go
on there and exploit myself and I'm gonna be on
the cover of Forbes magazine. And it's not a guarantee
by any means. No.

Speaker 2 (45:44):
And by the way, when we were on saying, I'm
not putting me in your thing in your pool. But
like obviously back in the day before social media, it
was so different, like it was a different ballgame. It
just was like I had same thing, Like it's endorsements now,
Like there's no way, it just doesn't happen, doesn't happen
as much.

Speaker 1 (46:02):
That's no, because everybody's on the take and everyone's going
for the same.

Speaker 2 (46:05):
But why hire one person when you can hire ten
for the same amount of people and you're getting all
this exposure from all ten of people's social media accounts,
like it's better for them.

Speaker 1 (46:15):
So true, and Raquel, she says, I want my old
family back, And that's about the show. That's about the
shooting oh does that make sense?

Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yes, because the shooting makes them change their personality and
it's not really her mother, right, Or.

Speaker 1 (46:35):
No, because they're all because they're putting up a sod. No,
because sometimes there'll be a shoot here at my house
that's not even a big one and it's an hour
two hours, and my daughter feels a little invaded. She
feels a little violated. She doesn't love that, you know,
it's like in her house and she feels like a
it's very rare, but yea. Or we're at an event
and I can't be present with her at the jingle

(46:56):
ball because I'm doing all the public stuff and to
who cares I'm working? And that you don't how does work? Book? Still,
the point is if all of a sudden, you're like,
mommy signed on to do this, and now we're all
doing this, and they're like, we want to get some
stuff with your kids, and we want to get this,
and the cameras are leaning in more when you're dealing
with a real teen problem of teenage drinking, and now

(47:16):
the cameras are still there, the daughter's crying. She also
is not stupid. She knows there are cameras. She wants
her old family back, the family that wasn't living with
cameras on in their house that she didn't sign up for.
Is a tween going through teen drama.

Speaker 2 (47:29):
Did you hear her say I didn't know what they
were doing on the other side of the limo. Our
limo was so long. It's like, girl, remember, wait, what
explained she was saying that, Like, I didn't know. I
guess she goes she'd had no idea her kids were drunk,
because I guess she says that they were on the
other side of the limo and that they were pouring
alcohol and I guess water bottles come on. Like no, now,

(47:51):
if you're not that present, then you know what, like
you shouldn't have kids because like you need to be aware.

Speaker 1 (47:57):
No, and that's also not true. Yes, you never know
if they were like fine, you can have one drink because.

Speaker 2 (48:02):
Maybe they were drinking together. Like listen, I moved to
Europe when I was thirteen years old. I've said this before.
I've lost my virginity. A lot is just different for people, right,
but like, look, regardless you're young, like I wish I
would have had more of a chaperoneish.

Speaker 1 (48:19):
Well, I was definitely drinking at that age. But I
certainly wouldn't have wanted to be in that circumstance. I
couldn't have handled the emotions of all that going on,
the eviction, the drinking, the parents on TV. It sounds traumatic.

Speaker 2 (48:32):
Yeah, you know, I was. I was. I'm so grateful
for my mother to put me in therapy because it
was really hard for me to translate my feelings into words.
But like that, it's expensive, it's unattainable.

Speaker 1 (48:44):
Well, let's talk about your seventeen so challenging, the way
your body looks, the way you feel, trying to get
into college. Don't know what you're doing with your life,
trying to college, keep up airs you didn't go well,
I don't know if she did either, But you're trying
to be survive as a teen, and then you get evicted.
Everyone knows, Then it goes, then it airs six months

(49:04):
later on television. Everybody in the world knows. And then
the last thing says that you got your license, but
your dad, who you're supposed to look up to, couldn't
afford to buy you a car. Oh so, sad, I
guarantee they'll hear this episode and have feelings about.

Speaker 2 (49:22):
Well, that's the thing. It's like it's going to be
there forever now.

Speaker 1 (49:25):
Yeah, but I'm glad they're but they're probably feeling seen
by us because most people don't think about this or talking.

Speaker 2 (49:30):
And also I have compassion and empathy for their hustle
in a way, like honestly, like they're probably traumatized, Like
how are they going to make, you know, being evicted?
I can't even. I can't. Also, I don't necessarily agree
with porn, but like, look, there are other ways. But
I am a hustler. Look, I used to dance on
the streets with my parents. My mom would ground me

(49:51):
because I didn't get enough. My grades weren't high enough.
I was not necessarily book smart, a street smart. But
I made like two thousand dollars in my Adida's Rippleways,
dance my ass off at Union Square. I'm from San Francisco,
so it's like, you know, I gotta do what you
gotta fucking do.

Speaker 1 (50:04):
Yes, Oh, I would one hundred percent strip, yeah, like
Nini did to support my daughter, one hundred percent. Absolutely,
But I would find it way more degrading to be
evicted than to be in porn.

Speaker 2 (50:17):
Yeah, no, I agree.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Yeah, Now, Gina seems to be doing a good job
with her daughter. Her daughter, Kara was lovely. She's the
one who walked up at the end and was like, oh,
really taking care of Raquel, Like I wonder where she
is now because she was seems well raised and she
seemed to handle the situation really well.

Speaker 2 (50:37):
How old was she she was older?

Speaker 1 (50:39):
That seems she's like I had my.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
Brother brought a hot, hot friend or something. Was that her?

Speaker 1 (50:44):
Yeah, maybe like nineteen or twenty or something? Yeah, yeah,
and even you know, I guess it's I guess it's
because I'm a mother now and I'm older watching this
like I was younger and I was so desperate to
be anything or to do anything. And there's no way
they say that. The big line is that these people
signed up for this. There's nobody signed up for what
I just described.

Speaker 2 (51:05):
No, and and the payday isn't that great anyway, so
why would they.

Speaker 1 (51:10):
They don't have a payday. The kids don't get paid.

Speaker 2 (51:12):
All right, so no one signed it's not fair to
say that. I hate when people say that the.

Speaker 1 (51:16):
Kids didn't sign up for anything. No, the kids didn't
sign up for anything. Even tam Or's son Ryan, who
he's saying his his his end thing was like she's
talking about he's really great and he's really doing well
at this job. Then they at the end have to
say Ryan lost his job. He's now doing this like

(51:36):
it's a kid?

Speaker 3 (51:38):
Why?

Speaker 2 (51:38):
Why though, why.

Speaker 1 (51:41):
To make him to make it look like everything we
said in the show? Yeah, it's just like he's a kid.
He's he's a child of someone on the show.

Speaker 2 (51:47):
Like again, still do reality TV without exploiting people? I
really believe it.

Speaker 1 (51:54):
That's what That's exactly what I'm saying. And I that's
exactly what I'm saying. You can't have signed up.

Speaker 2 (51:58):
For this dance moms and sometimes and I see these
like a toddlers and tiar it if there's a fine
line like this is uh. And unfortunately though, it's that
type of stuff that makes people want to watch. I
guess I guess the ratings must you know, Spike, But
at what expense? Right, like literally ruining someone's life.

Speaker 1 (52:23):
And I think that you know who could control all
of this is the advertisers. The whole thing is run
by the advertisers and what they'll pay for, so add
you know, I put the responsibility on the streamers and
the networks, which it is, but even the bigger power
than the networks and the streamers is the advertisers. If
the advertisers say, we're not advertising on something where you
have an underage girl drinking or you're you know, showing

(52:46):
physical abuse or something like that, we won't advertise on it.
So that's going to be the next thing because when
things happen that people don't like, they go after the advertisers.

Speaker 2 (52:57):
How about streaming there's no commercials, not there's advertisers.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
No streaming, you're right on streaming.

Speaker 2 (53:05):
But there is Disney plus there is right now.

Speaker 1 (53:08):
Oh okay, so yeah, it's the you know, the advertisers
have to wake up and say because then years ago
it used to be glamorized for people to smoke on TV,
and everyone thought that was normal. If you start to
see people ripping each other's hair out and things on TV,
that may seem cool.

Speaker 2 (53:25):
But how about for talent, isn't that doesn't it start
with you too? Like I think it's a little right,
like why would I mean, it's too hard to change
people like you can't but like as women, people do
anything for fame though it's really hard. I think it's
better off what you were saying.

Speaker 1 (53:41):
No, but you're so stressed out. It's such a good
idea to have a cocktail if it makes you feel calmer,
and it makes you do stupid things and you feel dehydrated.

Speaker 2 (53:50):
And but if you're sober, that's why they're not hiring wedding.

Speaker 1 (53:54):
No being sober. Yeah, well they hire a few people
that are sober, but they usually hope that they fall
off the wagon. Then it's oh, that's horrible.

Speaker 2 (54:02):
No, wait, really that is so that is disgusting. I
never want to I would never That is so nasty.

Speaker 1 (54:13):
It's not outward. They're not like, hey, Cheryl, thanks for
joining me.

Speaker 2 (54:15):
No, but obviously they want that. Of course they want that.
Now it makes sense, But that's disgusting.

Speaker 1 (54:20):
They say it to other people that is horrible. But
they would often be like, oh my god, don't worry,
Duranda's gonna get drunk and go crazy, or Luanne's definitely
going to drink. And Luan did go to the program
and Leah. That's why Leah has this whole lawsuit because
she came in sober and it really wasn't something that
he was she suing for. It's in a Vanity Fair

(54:42):
article about disability. They violated a disability Act because they
kind of were really pushing for her to drink. They
said she was more fun and funny drinking, and she
did fall off the wagon, which is her responsibility.

Speaker 2 (54:56):
To your point, A, absolutely, so there's a fine line.

Speaker 1 (55:00):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (55:02):
You have to take full responsibility. That's part of the program.
I mean that is a full accountability. No one makes
you do anything, and no one makes you feel anything.
No one makes you pick up a drink either.

Speaker 1 (55:11):
I agree. And the end it says that Gretchen and
Slade haven't gotten engaged, but he still hasn't gotten his
best sectomy. So the happy ever ending happily ever after
me Why because I think Slade has kids from another marriage.
End Oh, got a best sectomy and he reversed it

(55:34):
for Gretchen and they now have a baby.

Speaker 2 (55:38):
Hm. I know another couple who reversed so.

Speaker 1 (55:41):
They lived happily ever after.

Speaker 2 (55:42):
They're still together, that's right, and all the housewives are
just jealous now kidding?

Speaker 1 (55:49):
Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, So anyway, that was a
rough one. My takeaway is glad the end, I'm glad
Tamra met her husband Eddie and came out on the side.

Speaker 2 (56:01):
Yeah, they're still doing great, right, I mean, I don't.

Speaker 1 (56:05):
Know about their relationship, but they're still together, just like
Gretchen and Slade. So the part two marriages on Orange
County Housewives all seem to be working. Well.

Speaker 2 (56:17):
Okay, well that's good.

Speaker 1 (56:19):
Yeah, tell me your Rose and your thorn, my dear
of this episode.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
Gosh, my Rose would be looking at these, looking at
like that specific triggering moment with that couple, and first
of all, just realizing that I am on my way
towards changing my how I choose men. Because the fact
that I can just even recognize that in a way,
it was almost I was like, oh, good on you.

Speaker 1 (56:47):
That's good. That's a positive Reality TV.

Speaker 2 (56:50):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (56:50):
They're sacrificial lambs for you, for.

Speaker 2 (56:52):
You to Yeah, I mean, I'm just like, I just
like to try and test where I am in my brain,
Like if I even think that there is something wrong
or not, then you know, it's always good to know.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
Yes, Okay, and you're thorn Oh.

Speaker 2 (57:06):
That same moment.

Speaker 1 (57:07):
No, yes, I could.

Speaker 2 (57:09):
No, it's like under a drinking It's like seeing a camera.
So I was I can totally relate to my gut.
That makes me want to actually get emotional because of it.
But yeah, that was really hard to watch because I
was her.

Speaker 1 (57:25):
You know, my name Rose and Thorn. Amazing. Wow.

Speaker 2 (57:28):
Thanks for having you of course, Bye bye