February 5, 2025 • 30 mins
Are they intentional? Don't play games but DO notice how they show up for you. PLUS: How Matchmaking really works.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Okay, so let's talk about intention. So I was in
a relationship where we went out. He basically said he
was going to be in New York, and he lived
somewhere else, but he just showed up in New York
to go on the date the next day, sent flowers
like from day one. The intention was there. And it
fell off a little and something went wrong, but we
(00:32):
ended up getting back together, and the intention was really
always there, like you always knew where you stood and
it was great. And so most people think I'm not dating.
I am in an adventurer. I'm in a dating era.
The headlines say what the headlines say, haven't I don't
clarify them. My publicist called me a list, which was lovely,
and she said, a list people don't. She didn't mean
like this is a rule only for a list, or
(00:53):
that I'm alist. She just said a list people don't
like clarify what's going on. So there have been a
lot of headlines with me, a lot of people I've
been seeing, with a lot of different things. None of
it defines me. I'll never make an announce of what
I'm doing or not doing anymore. I'm not paid for that. Okay,
So there's a person that I met who immediately very
successful person, very successful person, and in like a very
(01:17):
pressured profession. And so ironically, you give somebody busy something.
Whatever you want, you want to get something done, give
it to somebody busy, is what I'm saying. So, like
I get everything done. I could be a good partner.
I could do a relief effort. I could do ten
TV shows. I could resolve a conflict on the phone
with someone walking out on stage, talk to five thousand people,
like I'm a machine. So this guy that was interested
(01:37):
in me right away just said to me by we
were messaging, are you. It was like on a high
end app are you? Are you Bethany Frankel? And I
was like yes, and it was right away, and like
there was something very transparent about it, and I was like,
thank you for like asking right away. He's like, I
just wanted to get that out of the way, like
I know who you are, and I'm not going to
like make it not level. So I thought that was great,
(01:58):
like letting me know, and then I realized is a
pretty successful person and little very light banter straight to tonight,
I'm available at eight o'clock if you are I'm done
with what I'm doing, which is a big thing, and
I'd like to get together and back. It was like, oh,
I'm with my daughter for dinner. But but but the
ball was moving. And the reason I'm mentioning this is
(02:19):
because we gaslight ourselves. And I've been in other situations
where you're making all these excuses for like, oh, well,
he's got he's got his kids, or he's got this job,
or he's got this thing, or he's running a marathon,
and you're making his excuses for why someone couldn't like
be super intentional about when they were going to see you,
be totally transparent about what was going on. And then
(02:40):
the veil gets lifted and you see someone just do
what you think is normal or what you would do,
which is intentional, and you're like, how stupid And it's
to your point. It's like someone's interviewing for the job,
and it wasn't all like mucked up and crazy where
they're asking you what days do I have to work
and how many hours and when's my lunch break? They
were like, Hi, I got it, I'm on the job.
I want the job. What's the job? Let's go Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
That's that is essential premise of any relationship is that
you can't drag a guy to want to be the
man you need him to be. Don't pay attention to
just what happened on the date or how great he
is on paper. Pay attention to how he follows up
after the date, how quickly he does he say, I
can't wait to see you again. What are you doing
(03:24):
this weekend? Texting you regularly calling your right the ball right?
He makes that out. You don't, and that's You're just
sort of standing there waiting to receive love and this
guy has to make an effort, and you're not running away.
You're not playing games. You're just waiting to see how
he shows up for you and rewarding him for his efforts.
He texts you, you text them back. No games, he calls you,
(03:45):
you call him back the game. It's really easy, actually.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, but nothing's worse than when someone texts you text
them back, and then they take four hours to text you.
Then you are playing a game because now you're taking
six hours to text him back, and you're in the
middle of a fucking swamp that you don't want to
be in.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's not who you are, you're acting like you don't
because of the way the other person's acting, and so frankly,
they're dragging you down to be who you're not in
your best dating life right.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
In the healthiest relationships that I've seen with my clients,
it's this really smooth on ramp between when they meet
very often online to when they become an official couple,
take their profiles down, start sleeping together, call each other
boyfriend girlfriend. That happens in four to six weeks or
something like that. If it drags on much longer than that,
(04:27):
probably not going to happen. Maybe your life circumstances different.
Because you travel so much, there's a long might be
a longer on ramp. But for people with like regular
lives and you know, rooted in their communities, there's nothing
stopping people from starting with once a week, going to
twice a week, going around the base, ye and.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Balancing your kids with that, because some people make their
kids their entire I've had so many men make their
kids their entire identity. I'm a very involved father, something
mothers don't say. And also, like you're in the middle
of a conversation, they're like panic stricken, jumping off the
phone to get on with their kids, like there's no emergency.
And I see it with adult kids, like men that
have adult kids that are like like jumping off, Like
(05:06):
I'm not like that with my kids, Like hold on, Brinn,
hold on two seconds, I'm on a call, Like it's
not a fucking emergency. I have a great level, healthy
relationship with my child, and I have a good relationship
with her, But she's not my entire life. People like
my kids my whole world. No, my kid is my is.
I love her. I'm going on a date with her
tonight for dinner. I cook dinner for her every night,
(05:27):
we talk about it. I drive her to school every day.
I do primarily put her first. But yet this weekend,
she's having a party here at the house and someone's
going to be here, and I'm going to a spot
because that's something I need if I want to go
on a date, I'm going on a date. I went
to a party last night. She was like, Mama, go, Mama,
you need to get out, Like that's balance. She's not.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I'm really glad you're going there.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Fuck is going on with these fucking people.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So there's a book that I read when I first
became a parent. My kids are twelve and thirteen. I
don't remember the title of the book, but it talked
about the difference between two styles of parenting. There's the
child centered parenting and there's the parent centered parenting. Child
centered parenting is the kid gets whatever they want, anything
to make the kid comfortable. And those are the kids
who don't never have a babysitter, have never been out
(06:13):
of their parents' site. They don't do anything independently. The
mom's cutting their meat when they're fourteen years old. And
we chose to be like you. We had like a
roster of babysitters and there was never going to be
a reason that we couldn't go out because some eighteen
year old girl had plans. And so our kids grew
up like your kids. Mom and dad have a life.
(06:33):
We fit within that life structure, but not everything goes
towards the kid's comfort. And I think you're raised more mature,
resilient kids.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Oh my god. And these guys are like bitch ass
is like running in circles. It's a child. They don't
have to be wrapped in bubble wrap. You don't have
to make everything a soft landing. That's it, like, I'm
so not into that shit.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's really don't think it's kind of just generational. You
and I are about the same age, I think. I
think it's one of the things.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
No, the maner aal late fifties. It's divorsational. It's guilt
over compensation. It's a Superman theory, and it's afterwards. I'm
a very involved father putting the putting, the putting your
kids in your profile with like emoji faces over it
or like just next to you, coloring with them to
perform that you're a father. You don't get a cookie
for being a father. Good for you. You're there, great
(07:21):
step to the side, go on a date, be with
your kids, go to the kids concert, like live a
fucking life. I hate that. I hate it. It's so stupid.
So anyway, yeah, that's ridiculous, and I'm positive about it
because I've seen like grown men in desperation over it.
It's like, relax, it's gonna be okay. Your kid's not
on fire.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Most kids are not on fire when they're texting their dad.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
That is true.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So you said something, and I'd like to take on
the matchmakers. This is he's my honest opinion. About matchmakers.
Matchmakers are like headhunters or publicists. They're doing the same
thing that you could literally do yourself. Okay, they really are,
and there's no magic, proprietary formula to it. They often
say it doesn't matter, like if he doesn't text you
(08:19):
back for like several hours, he's really busy, Like he's
at work and he's really busy, and I'm like in
any other scenario, like I'm the busiest people I know,
the billionaires that I know, and I mean like the
Mark Cubans, then the Nicole and David Teppers, the Steve Cohens,
like I know some major people, the Kevin O'Leary's, the
Gary Vaynerchuk's, Like they respond instantly, okay, running multi billion
(08:46):
dollar high stakes sports teams, operations, philanthropic, Like immediately, I
don't believe what the matchmakers say. He's at work, he's drowning,
he's so busy eight hours. What do we I'm on
a fucking We're in a horse and carriage society. So
that's my first opinion. The second is they'll be like,
it doesn't matter, how do you feel when you're with him?
And you're basically just saying the opposite and I'm kind
(09:07):
of with you because I've been with people that I
feel amazing with then we separate and the way they're acting,
the cock in between the tiles is not there, and
you can't keep those tiles on that bathroom floor without
the cock. And it's and I've been in long distance
relationships and if the person's not nurturing that, and it's
the FaceTime or the FaceTime sacks or the calls, like
just relying on what's going to happen when you're together
(09:29):
because it feels great, that model doesn't work. And that's
what matchmakers often say.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So I'm going to tread really really lightly for a
number of reasons, because you.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Work with a lot of matchmakers. You're like a dermatologist
that works with a lot of plastic surgeons and vice versa.
A little bit got.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It, And so I've spoken at the matchmaker's conferences and
I even got benned from a matchmaker's conference once upon
a time for saying something like this, which is matchmakers
have actually a really hard job. The reason the matchmaker
might not be able to do what you can do
is because they're limited in their access. If there's three
(10:06):
people involved in this equation, and there is the there
you you are the client. There's the matchmaker, who is
the executive recruiter who's out advocating on your behalf and
doing a talent search. And then there's the coach to
help guide the process and make the client more self aware,
more datable. Again, everybody has blind spots, everybody has skills.
(10:30):
Someone holding someone's hand through that journey to make sure
they're making good decisions consistent with their goals. Now, to me,
there's something that really works. I think the problem is
matchmakers often think that they're dating coaches, but I don't
think I'm a matchmaker. Yes, I've never taken that as
a challenge. I stick with advice. I try to make
it reality based advice. I don't favor men, don't favor women.
(10:51):
Like you know, we're playing spoken here, and so people
who turn to dating coaches often are like saying, are
the people who say, I admit that I have a
blind spot or I can't trust my judgment. Help me.
I want to be able to do this myself. People
who go to matchmakers say, there's nothing wrong with me,
Could you just hand me someone. I'm so sick of
(11:11):
the apps and somewhere in that. Then diagram is a
place where everybody can get help. You might be and
I'm not pitching you, you might be one of the
people who might need more of this dialogue. So I'm
seeing this guy. Here's what happens. What do you think? Yes,
I'm trusting my judgment. Maybe you don't need it someone
to go on a talent hunt. Maybe maybe you do.
I don't don't know that. That's interesting, right, I think
it could because you have resources, you could do the
(11:35):
both end. You could be on your exclusive app, you
could talk to someone about your love life. You could
have someone out there doing a hunt. And if because
it only takes one guy, if that matchmaker could lay.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
The one exactly. And they, in fairness to the matchmakers,
their model or they say they really they interview, they wait,
and they present you something when it's really good. They're
not like kind of like throwing spaghetti against the wall. Theoretically,
I've had some lame guys. The matchmakers have set me
up with lame But.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Matchmakers charge big prices, and with good reason. You have
an important job, you've got high end clients. And if
you're paying x thousand dollars per date. It better be
comparable to the kind of date you can get in
real life.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right. Also, you can have them vet someone. Theoretically, they
can also be like a dating agent, which is a
great dating agent. Like you're talking about deals with them
and they're giving you different Yeah, you want.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
To work with a matchmaker who acts with integrity, who's
honest with you, who doesn't blow smoke up your ass
and tell you that everything in the world is possible,
who could be real with you and you're working together.
It is a little bit probably like you have with
your business partner, where you're not going to agree on everything,
but you have to agree on the mission that their
(12:48):
job is to get you what you want and not
to settle.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
But here's the thing I think that they are. I
just want to tell people who like feel like they
don't get to find the best guys because they can't
afford a matchmaker, et cetera. Like I'm saying, I have
an amazing publicists. I could be a publicist. I if
I don't have the time or the bandwidth, and I
could be a lot of things. But I could be
a trapeze artist. But I literally could be now a
publicist and I literally could be now a matchmaker, and
(13:12):
my friends are always like, I can't fucking believe the
guys you find on your own. But I will say
this about the matchmakers. They're like diamond dealers or real
estate brokers. Okay, so yes they're good ones, yes they're
bad ones, but ultimately, all the diamonds are there on
some system. It's which got When you call I call,
I'm like, I want a cushion cut diamond. I want
(13:33):
a five carrot diamond. Okay, I want I want this diamond.
You call Shlomo on forty seventh Street. He's going to
search the system and he's going to find Moisha and
who's gonna have the diamond. But if I call Shlomo, Joe,
Jack and Jane, and if Moisha is the one who
has it, they're all going to get it from Moisha.
(13:56):
I just came in through one person. So if you're
calling five different matchmakers, let's just say they are often
pulling from the same system. In fact, they've all learned
to like work together now where they share guys. Let's
say somebody's got a big fish, a prince moved to
New York and they got a blanket the system. They
might say to somebody on in LA, which is another
wealthy city coast or Chicago, I got a guy, I'll
(14:18):
give you a piece if you have give me some
of your network. But that's what does happen because with
a diamond, if you have a twenty carrot diamond, that's
a million dollars, you're not going to risk not getting
it for the person. So if you have to share
part of that commission with someone on the other coast,
you will. So it's not some majestic thing where people
have like diamonds in their own safe. For the most part,
(14:40):
people have some stuff inventory, and matchmakers don't have men
in some vault either. They're just looking up on different systems,
whether it's LinkedIn or they're looking at the apps. There's
no majestic formula.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think that's a realistic way of looking at it,
and I think most matchmakers would concede something as much
without saying anything negative about matchmaking, because it's a good
and it's a noble and important profession. But matchmakers aren't magicians.
Dating coaches aren't magicians, and you pay for the convenience
of Hey, I don't want to swipe right on the
thousand guys to try to find a good one. You
(15:12):
hand them to me. I'm going to tell you what
I want. You pay a premium price and sometimes you
get some amazing results.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And summer pocket listenings too. Some matchmakers might meet a
guy at a party, he's not on any app, he
didn't say he wanted to do anything, and they just
met him. He's getting a divorce, and then they say,
yep with them. So there are other options. I'm just
saying for those people who feel like they can't afford like,
be your own advocate and you can figure it out
on your own. Even if you can't afford a dating
coade a matchmaker, like you can figure it out on
(15:40):
your own. Just takes a little more work.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And that's what I When people turn to me that,
that's usually what I what I tell them is you
could have someone catch a fish for you, or we
could teach you to catch the fish exactly right like
And to me, obviously advocating for myself, you know I
would rather give a woman the power to make better
dating relationship choices instead of hope being someone hands or
someone But no, I mean you are.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Very valuable because if you get a good fish and
then you fuck it up. You're going to help someone
not fuck it up. You can't hire someone to run
your business and not be running your business yourself. Really,
you have to be. It's a CEO thing. You have
to be running your own company.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Once upon a time, Bethan, you wouldn't know this about me.
I was a writer. I came to l A to
b a screenwriter. And so what they tell you is
almost the same thing we always I always thought agents
had magical powers. Oh my god, No, I get an agent,
my career is made. They're going to get me staffed
on friends. And I just realized, oh, that was just
like a piece of the puzzle. So much of it
(16:38):
is about who you know and how your network and
the friends you make along the way.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I don't have an agent. Look at all the deals
I do every day.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Right, But I'm saying when I was a twenty five
year old guy in LA waving my script around, I
finally got an agent and I finally got a manager,
and I thought that was it right, and they're just
they said, no, No, you kind of get your first job.
And once you get a job and you notize yourself,
then we can negotiate for you, but we're probably not
going to get you your first job.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
No, but you're I'm saying it's the same at this level.
Tom Cruise has an agent. Famous people have an agent.
You get new projects. I'm saying at this level, it's
even more rare that I would not have an agent
because I just exercise the muscle myself. Like there's no
majestic formula to what they're doing. Most of what they're
doing is incoming calls. I've learned that I've had agencies
hustling for me the hardest they can and still all
(17:27):
my incoming calls are about ninety five percent of their
five percent right now at this time. And I make
agencies a lot of money bringing me deals, but because
of the type of person I am, ninety five percent
and it's a big amount of money comes from me.
And that's the same thing with the dating. So I
guess the lesson is be aggressive. I don't mean they
(17:48):
have to see that you're being aggressive, but be your
own advocator, be your own publicist, your own matchmaker, your
own you know hunter. I think I.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Think that's a good lesson for everything in life. It's
part of why you've been successful. You can't take a
passive approach to something that's important. And I think in love,
that's what people do. We feel so beaten down by
our inability to find a good guy, a good quality
commitment to renton man that we sort of just like
go into a shell, focus on our work, focus on
(18:18):
our friends and our travels, and we sort of hope
it happens. I admire the fact that you are still
proactively dating, that you're doing this podcast. You could be
doing anything, but you're doing this podcast because this is important.
Love is important. It's easy to put on the side
while you're out living your best life.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, I'm doing it for my self. What I'm doing
for the people. Well, I'm doing it for myself. What
I'm doing for the people, Like because I know how
(19:00):
scared people are to date. I know how defeated they are.
I know they get in their heads. They don't have
as much institutional knowledge. They don't go away as much
as I do, do as much as I do, meet
as many people as I do, have dated as much
as I do, have as fucked up childhood. Necessarily that
I do what many do, but like so they get
a divorce and they have three kids. They literally think
they have baggage and they're like, you know, washed up,
(19:20):
or they think they're fifty five and they can't date,
and it's like what, Like, people really don't realize that
it is great out there. They just need that confidence
and the knowledge and these tools to navigate what they're doing.
I don't think. I think most people believe the myths,
and most of them are actually myths.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
They're known as lending beliefs, things that are partially true.
Is it harder when you're fifty five than when you're
twenty five? Sure? Is it harder if you have three kids?
And if you don't, I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I actually don't agree. I think. I think when you
go up to a Caesar's palace buffet, it's disgusting and
you play. It is full and you know what the
fuck you're eating, and it's gross and you want to
start over. I think when you're fifth, five years old,
fifty four years old, fifty years old, you know exactly
what you want. You're not wasting any time, you're not
eating any garbage. You're going in for exactly the thing
you vetted it. You know what it is. You go
(20:09):
and you either do it or you don't. But you
haven't like flapped your wings and fucking made yourself disgusted
by that buffet. It's not all over the place. You
know exactly what you want. I think it's much better.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I love your optimism about it. I would only point
out gently that these the divorce rate for second marriages
is sixty six percent. The divorce rate for third marriages
is seventy five percent. So all the people who think
they know better are not always correct.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I wasn't talking about if it's your I was not
going at it. If it's harder to succeed at it, that's different,
and maybe that's why people need you. I'm saying to
meet people, like, yes, my daughter's fourteen years old, she's
got seventeen guys in her grade that she meets all day.
And of course that's different than me sitting home in
my pajamas going out one night. But I'm not getting
up at there's a guy that texted me that like that.
(21:03):
I said that immediately knew what he wanted, and like,
I'll get out of it. I'm getting on i pajamas
for that. It's intention, but I'm not getting out to
stand around at a bar and look around at the buffet.
So the success the success rate is different, and that's
that is a very staggering statistic.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
If people have the capacity to learn from their mistakes,
then yes it gets better. But sometimes people have an overreaction. Right,
we've probably talked about it, talk about the pendulum concept. Right.
So I was with a guy with no money. Now
I really want a guy to take care of me financially.
I was with a guy there was no passion. Now
I'm backing for chemistry exactly, and then we just end
(21:39):
up making a different kind of mistage. But to your
greater point, it almost doesn't matter. Certainly statistically there are
more single men at twenty five than fifty five, But
how many men do you need to be happy for
the rest of your life? One, If you can create
an act of love life, that's what I help people do,
create an active love life. And you can get yourself
(21:59):
online a date a week, which is a very achievable
goal no matter what age you are. If you can
get a date a week and good quality date. Right,
And there's a mechanism for marketing yourself. There's a mechanism
for screening, like there's a technique to do this, but
I main brain surgery. There's nothing I do that's brain surgery.
I tell people, you work with me for six months,
you go in one day a week. You're going to
(22:20):
find something you like. Someone just finished up with me.
She's fifty four years old. She was I think married
three times. I could be mistaken fifth match dot com date,
fell in love. They're celebrating their sixteen week anniversary. They're
an adorable couple. It's never been healthier. He's her equal
and she didn't even know it was possible.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Right, I'm going to work with you. You reached out,
but I've been crazy. I'm going to work with you.
I think this is interesting, even if it's for like
a even if it's for like a sociological experimental research.
I'm going to work with you and see what I think.
Because on here, I mean, you're really smart and really
get it and it's very digestible. So I really do
like it. Oh but here's the thing I think that's
(22:59):
interesting that I just thought of for the first time.
So you and I have talked about the reaction and
the pendulum. Like you with someone they were very controlling.
Now you want to be with someone that lets you
be independent if you don't. It's sort of like the
way that like your house will crumble if the foundation
isn't strong. So if you're in a relationship, let's put
let's take marriage out of all of this. We're not
talking about marriage because if you're with someone twenty five years,
(23:21):
we're not telling someone to dissolve your marriage because you're
not you know, that's different. Let's talk about like we're
talking about dating. So if you're in a relationship with
someone or dating someone and they show you who they
are so you are ready or getting these red flags
about they're cheap or they're controlling. I think the reason
the pendulum swings so far is because people stay in
(23:41):
way too long. It goes way too far. They have
absolute deal fatigue for that thing, so they really react.
But if you're in something, let's just say three months,
I think three months is three months is a critical period.
I think six months is a really critical period. And
you see after three months the red flags and someone's
showing you who they are, You're not gonna go and
swing the pendulum so far to the other direction because
(24:03):
you had three months of that. You it hasn't been
like ingrained and beaten into you where you are just
like shell shocked, and you need to do the opposite.
So if you're taking care of yourself and not accepting
less than what you deserve, or someone's not meeting you
where you're at, you won't get to that point and
you'll always be able to find your get back to
your baseline, get back to your true north and your
center of what you really believe is right for you,
(24:26):
versus it being some reaction.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I really love when you do the hot take and
you land somewhere that's pretty profound and it's humbling to
me because again, I've been doing this for twenty years
and we say almost the same thing. So it's like,
maybe anybody could do this job. It's possible. I could,
at least I'm sort but it's possible. Right, But that's
(24:50):
you've just come back to the concept of being the CEO, so.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
You hind full circle. We can end maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Maybe three months in they get their health insurance. They don't.
You didn't sign a one year extension. You do with
a quarterly review. You check in on your feelings. So
just because the guy gets the job, I had a client.
This is just yesterday. That's true. I had a client yesterday,
lovely woman, beautiful, late thirties, wants to get married, have kids,
(25:17):
feeling kind of panicked about it. And she's so she's
trying to figure out from like the bumble profile, is
this guy going to be my husband? So she's looking
six or five finance guy, like I'm really like looking
for this guy, and I'm just like, you can't tell
anything from a profile. And she's basically paralyzed by indecision.
She's so afraid of making a mistake at this juncture
or juncture in her life. I don't want to choose
(25:39):
the wrong man and be stuck in some bad marriage.
I was like, you need to loosen up on this.
You're just going on a date, and if you go
out with a date and you're not inspired by him,
then you don't need to go on a second date.
Her fear is literally she's going to go out with
the guy and the next thing, you know, five years later,
she's a board house wife.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And my date get that.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
My dating coach set me on that path, and I
was like, no, no, you have the power to say no.
After a FaceTime call, a first date, a kiss, a
third date one month at any point in time.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
But that's why I think the three month and the
six month period is important. I've never really assigned it
to this. I've said the three months is when you
decide are we doing The six months is like, wait,
are we really doing this? But I think those are
important because that's how you don't get too far down
the wrong road. We talk about it about. We often
talk about it being the right road. Like the guys
in control, like, we made it three months. This means
it's real. I'm going to meet his parents. We made
(26:35):
it six months. This means you're probably gonna get engaged,
versus like this is three months. This is like really, like,
let's be really honest because I don't have to go
too deep into this, and then the pendulum will have
to swing and up my whole entire bio rhythm and
system will be out of whack. So I like that
a lot, and it's different. No one talks about that.
That's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I talk about that shit all the time. Yeah, but
you're correct, you're just putting different label. You're putting different
labels on it, and so there is the I would say,
you know, six months, are we doing this. That's the
first time I told my wife I loved her right,
everything was nice and easy, and then six months in
and we're like, Okay, you're thirty eight, I'm thirty five.
(27:16):
We both want kids. We're not screwing around here. I'm Jewish,
you're Catholic. Can we work this stuff out?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And if so, then I think we've got a pretty
smooth path right right. And the problem is, for most people,
the sunk cost fallacy is when you're on that track
with someone you love right, and then you see the
cracks in the armor and you don't want to see them. Oh,
he is a bit narcissistic. He does have a temporary.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
But you don't want to cut bait because you don't
want to have to swim back.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Right, because then I have to go back to the
shitty data people.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
It sucks.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
And that's how people end up in twenty year marriages
with people where they knew six months in it was
not yes.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, yes, preach. That's the problem. And also, as you
get older, you get to be my age, you meet
someone who's interesting, who's attractive, who you care about, you're like, wait,
and you're in your own head thinking, but I won't
meet anybody else in the same reason people do that
at twenty thirty forty the whole time. And you're right,
we have to have higher standards for ourselves and you
(28:15):
have to be able to cut bait if you need
to cut bait, and you have to.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And that's why feeling and we're having a pretty cerebral conversation,
but that's why talking about feelings is so important. Women
in particular tend to ignore their feelings. Right. He is
a investment banker, a doctor.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
The ladies.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
We have amazing sex, you know, when we're connected. He's
so interesting, he's so generous with his family. So we
can come up with all the reasons, yes, and what
are we losing? I feel really anxious, like I don't
feel like I could be myself. I feel like if
I say the wrong thing, this whole thing could implode.
That is the opposite of what it feels like to
(28:54):
be in a healthy relationship. And then we hold on
to that, yeah, anxiety forever.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You could someone could love you. You could know that
they love you, but you're not feeling loved.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You could know for a fact that they love you,
They've told you and you know it. In your body.
But if you're not feeling loved and taking care of it,
doesn't fucking matter.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's correct. And so what we do here is we
dump those guys. We don't say maybe I can get
him to know the way he did him the first
six weeks.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
No, no chasing the dragon amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well it's the saying uh, And you know this better
than I do because you've you've run much bigger businesses, higher, slowly, fire, quickly, nice.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
All right, that's a good place to stop. Guys. You
love this, My podcasting loves this.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Thanks Evan, my pleasure, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
We got to bat the back of burn
Okay, so let's talk about intention. So I was in
a relationship where we went out. He basically said he
was going to be in New York, and he lived
somewhere else, but he just showed up in New York
to go on the date the next day, sent flowers
like from day one. The intention was there. And it
fell off a little and something went wrong, but we
(00:32):
ended up getting back together, and the intention was really
always there, like you always knew where you stood and
it was great. And so most people think I'm not dating.
I am in an adventurer. I'm in a dating era.
The headlines say what the headlines say, haven't I don't
clarify them. My publicist called me a list, which was lovely,
and she said, a list people don't. She didn't mean
like this is a rule only for a list, or
(00:53):
that I'm alist. She just said a list people don't
like clarify what's going on. So there have been a
lot of headlines with me, a lot of people I've
been seeing, with a lot of different things. None of
it defines me. I'll never make an announce of what
I'm doing or not doing anymore. I'm not paid for that. Okay,
So there's a person that I met who immediately very
successful person, very successful person, and in like a very
(01:17):
pressured profession. And so ironically, you give somebody busy something.
Whatever you want, you want to get something done, give
it to somebody busy, is what I'm saying. So, like
I get everything done. I could be a good partner.
I could do a relief effort. I could do ten
TV shows. I could resolve a conflict on the phone
with someone walking out on stage, talk to five thousand people,
like I'm a machine. So this guy that was interested
(01:37):
in me right away just said to me by we
were messaging, are you. It was like on a high
end app are you? Are you Bethany Frankel? And I
was like yes, and it was right away, and like
there was something very transparent about it, and I was like,
thank you for like asking right away. He's like, I
just wanted to get that out of the way, like
I know who you are, and I'm not going to
like make it not level. So I thought that was great,
(01:58):
like letting me know, and then I realized is a
pretty successful person and little very light banter straight to tonight,
I'm available at eight o'clock if you are I'm done
with what I'm doing, which is a big thing, and
I'd like to get together and back. It was like, oh,
I'm with my daughter for dinner. But but but the
ball was moving. And the reason I'm mentioning this is
(02:19):
because we gaslight ourselves. And I've been in other situations
where you're making all these excuses for like, oh, well,
he's got he's got his kids, or he's got this job,
or he's got this thing, or he's running a marathon,
and you're making his excuses for why someone couldn't like
be super intentional about when they were going to see you,
be totally transparent about what was going on. And then
(02:40):
the veil gets lifted and you see someone just do
what you think is normal or what you would do,
which is intentional, and you're like, how stupid And it's
to your point. It's like someone's interviewing for the job,
and it wasn't all like mucked up and crazy where
they're asking you what days do I have to work
and how many hours and when's my lunch break? They
were like, Hi, I got it, I'm on the job.
I want the job. What's the job? Let's go Yeah, and.
Speaker 2 (03:02):
That's that is essential premise of any relationship is that
you can't drag a guy to want to be the
man you need him to be. Don't pay attention to
just what happened on the date or how great he
is on paper. Pay attention to how he follows up
after the date, how quickly he does he say, I
can't wait to see you again. What are you doing
(03:24):
this weekend? Texting you regularly calling your right the ball right?
He makes that out. You don't, and that's You're just
sort of standing there waiting to receive love and this
guy has to make an effort, and you're not running away.
You're not playing games. You're just waiting to see how
he shows up for you and rewarding him for his efforts.
He texts you, you text them back. No games, he calls you,
(03:45):
you call him back the game. It's really easy, actually.
Speaker 1 (03:48):
Yeah, but nothing's worse than when someone texts you text
them back, and then they take four hours to text you.
Then you are playing a game because now you're taking
six hours to text him back, and you're in the
middle of a fucking swamp that you don't want to
be in.
Speaker 3 (03:57):
It.
Speaker 1 (03:57):
It's not who you are, you're acting like you don't
because of the way the other person's acting, and so frankly,
they're dragging you down to be who you're not in
your best dating life right.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
In the healthiest relationships that I've seen with my clients,
it's this really smooth on ramp between when they meet
very often online to when they become an official couple,
take their profiles down, start sleeping together, call each other
boyfriend girlfriend. That happens in four to six weeks or
something like that. If it drags on much longer than that,
(04:27):
probably not going to happen. Maybe your life circumstances different.
Because you travel so much, there's a long might be
a longer on ramp. But for people with like regular
lives and you know, rooted in their communities, there's nothing
stopping people from starting with once a week, going to
twice a week, going around the base, ye and.
Speaker 1 (04:44):
Balancing your kids with that, because some people make their
kids their entire I've had so many men make their
kids their entire identity. I'm a very involved father, something
mothers don't say. And also, like you're in the middle
of a conversation, they're like panic stricken, jumping off the
phone to get on with their kids, like there's no emergency.
And I see it with adult kids, like men that
have adult kids that are like like jumping off, Like
(05:06):
I'm not like that with my kids, Like hold on, Brinn,
hold on two seconds, I'm on a call, Like it's
not a fucking emergency. I have a great level, healthy
relationship with my child, and I have a good relationship
with her, But she's not my entire life. People like
my kids my whole world. No, my kid is my is.
I love her. I'm going on a date with her
tonight for dinner. I cook dinner for her every night,
(05:27):
we talk about it. I drive her to school every day.
I do primarily put her first. But yet this weekend,
she's having a party here at the house and someone's
going to be here, and I'm going to a spot
because that's something I need if I want to go
on a date, I'm going on a date. I went
to a party last night. She was like, Mama, go, Mama,
you need to get out, Like that's balance. She's not.
Speaker 2 (05:47):
I'm really glad you're going there.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
Fuck is going on with these fucking people.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
So there's a book that I read when I first
became a parent. My kids are twelve and thirteen. I
don't remember the title of the book, but it talked
about the difference between two styles of parenting. There's the
child centered parenting and there's the parent centered parenting. Child
centered parenting is the kid gets whatever they want, anything
to make the kid comfortable. And those are the kids
who don't never have a babysitter, have never been out
(06:13):
of their parents' site. They don't do anything independently. The
mom's cutting their meat when they're fourteen years old. And
we chose to be like you. We had like a
roster of babysitters and there was never going to be
a reason that we couldn't go out because some eighteen
year old girl had plans. And so our kids grew
up like your kids. Mom and dad have a life.
(06:33):
We fit within that life structure, but not everything goes
towards the kid's comfort. And I think you're raised more mature,
resilient kids.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Oh my god. And these guys are like bitch ass
is like running in circles. It's a child. They don't
have to be wrapped in bubble wrap. You don't have
to make everything a soft landing. That's it, like, I'm
so not into that shit.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
It's really don't think it's kind of just generational. You
and I are about the same age, I think. I
think it's one of the things.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
No, the maner aal late fifties. It's divorsational. It's guilt
over compensation. It's a Superman theory, and it's afterwards. I'm
a very involved father putting the putting, the putting your
kids in your profile with like emoji faces over it
or like just next to you, coloring with them to
perform that you're a father. You don't get a cookie
for being a father. Good for you. You're there, great
(07:21):
step to the side, go on a date, be with
your kids, go to the kids concert, like live a
fucking life. I hate that. I hate it. It's so stupid.
So anyway, yeah, that's ridiculous, and I'm positive about it
because I've seen like grown men in desperation over it.
It's like, relax, it's gonna be okay. Your kid's not
on fire.
Speaker 2 (07:39):
Most kids are not on fire when they're texting their dad.
Speaker 4 (07:42):
That is true.
Speaker 1 (07:56):
So you said something, and I'd like to take on
the matchmakers. This is he's my honest opinion. About matchmakers.
Matchmakers are like headhunters or publicists. They're doing the same
thing that you could literally do yourself. Okay, they really are,
and there's no magic, proprietary formula to it. They often
say it doesn't matter, like if he doesn't text you
(08:19):
back for like several hours, he's really busy, Like he's
at work and he's really busy, and I'm like in
any other scenario, like I'm the busiest people I know,
the billionaires that I know, and I mean like the
Mark Cubans, then the Nicole and David Teppers, the Steve Cohens,
like I know some major people, the Kevin O'Leary's, the
Gary Vaynerchuk's, Like they respond instantly, okay, running multi billion
(08:46):
dollar high stakes sports teams, operations, philanthropic, Like immediately, I
don't believe what the matchmakers say. He's at work, he's drowning,
he's so busy eight hours. What do we I'm on
a fucking We're in a horse and carriage society. So
that's my first opinion. The second is they'll be like,
it doesn't matter, how do you feel when you're with him?
And you're basically just saying the opposite and I'm kind
(09:07):
of with you because I've been with people that I
feel amazing with then we separate and the way they're acting,
the cock in between the tiles is not there, and
you can't keep those tiles on that bathroom floor without
the cock. And it's and I've been in long distance
relationships and if the person's not nurturing that, and it's
the FaceTime or the FaceTime sacks or the calls, like
just relying on what's going to happen when you're together
(09:29):
because it feels great, that model doesn't work. And that's
what matchmakers often say.
Speaker 2 (09:36):
So I'm going to tread really really lightly for a
number of reasons, because you.
Speaker 1 (09:39):
Work with a lot of matchmakers. You're like a dermatologist
that works with a lot of plastic surgeons and vice versa.
A little bit got.
Speaker 2 (09:45):
It, And so I've spoken at the matchmaker's conferences and
I even got benned from a matchmaker's conference once upon
a time for saying something like this, which is matchmakers
have actually a really hard job. The reason the matchmaker
might not be able to do what you can do
is because they're limited in their access. If there's three
(10:06):
people involved in this equation, and there is the there
you you are the client. There's the matchmaker, who is
the executive recruiter who's out advocating on your behalf and
doing a talent search. And then there's the coach to
help guide the process and make the client more self aware,
more datable. Again, everybody has blind spots, everybody has skills.
(10:30):
Someone holding someone's hand through that journey to make sure
they're making good decisions consistent with their goals. Now, to me,
there's something that really works. I think the problem is
matchmakers often think that they're dating coaches, but I don't
think I'm a matchmaker. Yes, I've never taken that as
a challenge. I stick with advice. I try to make
it reality based advice. I don't favor men, don't favor women.
(10:51):
Like you know, we're playing spoken here, and so people
who turn to dating coaches often are like saying, are
the people who say, I admit that I have a
blind spot or I can't trust my judgment. Help me.
I want to be able to do this myself. People
who go to matchmakers say, there's nothing wrong with me,
Could you just hand me someone. I'm so sick of
(11:11):
the apps and somewhere in that. Then diagram is a
place where everybody can get help. You might be and
I'm not pitching you, you might be one of the
people who might need more of this dialogue. So I'm
seeing this guy. Here's what happens. What do you think? Yes,
I'm trusting my judgment. Maybe you don't need it someone
to go on a talent hunt. Maybe maybe you do.
I don't don't know that. That's interesting, right, I think
it could because you have resources, you could do the
(11:35):
both end. You could be on your exclusive app, you
could talk to someone about your love life. You could
have someone out there doing a hunt. And if because
it only takes one guy, if that matchmaker could lay.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
The one exactly. And they, in fairness to the matchmakers,
their model or they say they really they interview, they wait,
and they present you something when it's really good. They're
not like kind of like throwing spaghetti against the wall. Theoretically,
I've had some lame guys. The matchmakers have set me
up with lame But.
Speaker 2 (12:03):
Matchmakers charge big prices, and with good reason. You have
an important job, you've got high end clients. And if
you're paying x thousand dollars per date. It better be
comparable to the kind of date you can get in
real life.
Speaker 1 (12:17):
Right. Also, you can have them vet someone. Theoretically, they
can also be like a dating agent, which is a
great dating agent. Like you're talking about deals with them
and they're giving you different Yeah, you want.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
To work with a matchmaker who acts with integrity, who's
honest with you, who doesn't blow smoke up your ass
and tell you that everything in the world is possible,
who could be real with you and you're working together.
It is a little bit probably like you have with
your business partner, where you're not going to agree on everything,
but you have to agree on the mission that their
(12:48):
job is to get you what you want and not
to settle.
Speaker 3 (12:50):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
But here's the thing I think that they are. I
just want to tell people who like feel like they
don't get to find the best guys because they can't
afford a matchmaker, et cetera. Like I'm saying, I have
an amazing publicists. I could be a publicist. I if
I don't have the time or the bandwidth, and I
could be a lot of things. But I could be
a trapeze artist. But I literally could be now a
publicist and I literally could be now a matchmaker, and
(13:12):
my friends are always like, I can't fucking believe the
guys you find on your own. But I will say
this about the matchmakers. They're like diamond dealers or real
estate brokers. Okay, so yes they're good ones, yes they're
bad ones, but ultimately, all the diamonds are there on
some system. It's which got When you call I call,
I'm like, I want a cushion cut diamond. I want
(13:33):
a five carrot diamond. Okay, I want I want this diamond.
You call Shlomo on forty seventh Street. He's going to
search the system and he's going to find Moisha and
who's gonna have the diamond. But if I call Shlomo, Joe,
Jack and Jane, and if Moisha is the one who
has it, they're all going to get it from Moisha.
(13:56):
I just came in through one person. So if you're
calling five different matchmakers, let's just say they are often
pulling from the same system. In fact, they've all learned
to like work together now where they share guys. Let's
say somebody's got a big fish, a prince moved to
New York and they got a blanket the system. They
might say to somebody on in LA, which is another
wealthy city coast or Chicago, I got a guy, I'll
(14:18):
give you a piece if you have give me some
of your network. But that's what does happen because with
a diamond, if you have a twenty carrot diamond, that's
a million dollars, you're not going to risk not getting
it for the person. So if you have to share
part of that commission with someone on the other coast,
you will. So it's not some majestic thing where people
have like diamonds in their own safe. For the most part,
(14:40):
people have some stuff inventory, and matchmakers don't have men
in some vault either. They're just looking up on different systems,
whether it's LinkedIn or they're looking at the apps. There's
no majestic formula.
Speaker 2 (14:51):
I think that's a realistic way of looking at it,
and I think most matchmakers would concede something as much
without saying anything negative about matchmaking, because it's a good
and it's a noble and important profession. But matchmakers aren't magicians.
Dating coaches aren't magicians, and you pay for the convenience
of Hey, I don't want to swipe right on the
thousand guys to try to find a good one. You
(15:12):
hand them to me. I'm going to tell you what
I want. You pay a premium price and sometimes you
get some amazing results.
Speaker 1 (15:19):
And summer pocket listenings too. Some matchmakers might meet a
guy at a party, he's not on any app, he
didn't say he wanted to do anything, and they just
met him. He's getting a divorce, and then they say,
yep with them. So there are other options. I'm just
saying for those people who feel like they can't afford like,
be your own advocate and you can figure it out
on your own. Even if you can't afford a dating
coade a matchmaker, like you can figure it out on
(15:40):
your own. Just takes a little more work.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
And that's what I When people turn to me that,
that's usually what I what I tell them is you
could have someone catch a fish for you, or we
could teach you to catch the fish exactly right like
And to me, obviously advocating for myself, you know I
would rather give a woman the power to make better
dating relationship choices instead of hope being someone hands or
someone But no, I mean you are.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
Very valuable because if you get a good fish and
then you fuck it up. You're going to help someone
not fuck it up. You can't hire someone to run
your business and not be running your business yourself. Really,
you have to be. It's a CEO thing. You have
to be running your own company.
Speaker 2 (16:17):
Once upon a time, Bethan, you wouldn't know this about me.
I was a writer. I came to l A to
b a screenwriter. And so what they tell you is
almost the same thing we always I always thought agents
had magical powers. Oh my god, No, I get an agent,
my career is made. They're going to get me staffed
on friends. And I just realized, oh, that was just
like a piece of the puzzle. So much of it
(16:38):
is about who you know and how your network and
the friends you make along the way.
Speaker 1 (16:42):
I don't have an agent. Look at all the deals
I do every day.
Speaker 2 (16:45):
Right, But I'm saying when I was a twenty five
year old guy in LA waving my script around, I
finally got an agent and I finally got a manager,
and I thought that was it right, and they're just
they said, no, No, you kind of get your first job.
And once you get a job and you notize yourself,
then we can negotiate for you, but we're probably not
going to get you your first job.
Speaker 1 (17:04):
No, but you're I'm saying it's the same at this level.
Tom Cruise has an agent. Famous people have an agent.
You get new projects. I'm saying at this level, it's
even more rare that I would not have an agent
because I just exercise the muscle myself. Like there's no
majestic formula to what they're doing. Most of what they're
doing is incoming calls. I've learned that I've had agencies
hustling for me the hardest they can and still all
(17:27):
my incoming calls are about ninety five percent of their
five percent right now at this time. And I make
agencies a lot of money bringing me deals, but because
of the type of person I am, ninety five percent
and it's a big amount of money comes from me.
And that's the same thing with the dating. So I
guess the lesson is be aggressive. I don't mean they
(17:48):
have to see that you're being aggressive, but be your
own advocator, be your own publicist, your own matchmaker, your
own you know hunter. I think I.
Speaker 2 (17:58):
Think that's a good lesson for everything in life. It's
part of why you've been successful. You can't take a
passive approach to something that's important. And I think in love,
that's what people do. We feel so beaten down by
our inability to find a good guy, a good quality
commitment to renton man that we sort of just like
go into a shell, focus on our work, focus on
(18:18):
our friends and our travels, and we sort of hope
it happens. I admire the fact that you are still
proactively dating, that you're doing this podcast. You could be
doing anything, but you're doing this podcast because this is important.
Love is important. It's easy to put on the side
while you're out living your best life.
Speaker 1 (18:37):
Well, I'm doing it for my self. What I'm doing
for the people. Well, I'm doing it for myself. What
I'm doing for the people, Like because I know how
(19:00):
scared people are to date. I know how defeated they are.
I know they get in their heads. They don't have
as much institutional knowledge. They don't go away as much
as I do, do as much as I do, meet
as many people as I do, have dated as much
as I do, have as fucked up childhood. Necessarily that
I do what many do, but like so they get
a divorce and they have three kids. They literally think
they have baggage and they're like, you know, washed up,
(19:20):
or they think they're fifty five and they can't date,
and it's like what, Like, people really don't realize that
it is great out there. They just need that confidence
and the knowledge and these tools to navigate what they're doing.
I don't think. I think most people believe the myths,
and most of them are actually myths.
Speaker 2 (19:40):
They're known as lending beliefs, things that are partially true.
Is it harder when you're fifty five than when you're
twenty five? Sure? Is it harder if you have three kids?
And if you don't, I don't.
Speaker 1 (19:48):
I actually don't agree. I think. I think when you
go up to a Caesar's palace buffet, it's disgusting and
you play. It is full and you know what the
fuck you're eating, and it's gross and you want to
start over. I think when you're fifth, five years old,
fifty four years old, fifty years old, you know exactly
what you want. You're not wasting any time, you're not
eating any garbage. You're going in for exactly the thing
you vetted it. You know what it is. You go
(20:09):
and you either do it or you don't. But you
haven't like flapped your wings and fucking made yourself disgusted
by that buffet. It's not all over the place. You
know exactly what you want. I think it's much better.
Speaker 2 (20:21):
I love your optimism about it. I would only point
out gently that these the divorce rate for second marriages
is sixty six percent. The divorce rate for third marriages
is seventy five percent. So all the people who think
they know better are not always correct.
Speaker 1 (20:40):
I wasn't talking about if it's your I was not
going at it. If it's harder to succeed at it, that's different,
and maybe that's why people need you. I'm saying to
meet people, like, yes, my daughter's fourteen years old, she's
got seventeen guys in her grade that she meets all day.
And of course that's different than me sitting home in
my pajamas going out one night. But I'm not getting
up at there's a guy that texted me that like that.
(21:03):
I said that immediately knew what he wanted, and like,
I'll get out of it. I'm getting on i pajamas
for that. It's intention, but I'm not getting out to
stand around at a bar and look around at the buffet.
So the success the success rate is different, and that's
that is a very staggering statistic.
Speaker 2 (21:17):
If people have the capacity to learn from their mistakes,
then yes it gets better. But sometimes people have an overreaction. Right,
we've probably talked about it, talk about the pendulum concept. Right.
So I was with a guy with no money. Now
I really want a guy to take care of me financially.
I was with a guy there was no passion. Now
I'm backing for chemistry exactly, and then we just end
(21:39):
up making a different kind of mistage. But to your
greater point, it almost doesn't matter. Certainly statistically there are
more single men at twenty five than fifty five, But
how many men do you need to be happy for
the rest of your life? One, If you can create
an act of love life, that's what I help people do,
create an active love life. And you can get yourself
(21:59):
online a date a week, which is a very achievable
goal no matter what age you are. If you can
get a date a week and good quality date. Right,
And there's a mechanism for marketing yourself. There's a mechanism
for screening, like there's a technique to do this, but
I main brain surgery. There's nothing I do that's brain surgery.
I tell people, you work with me for six months,
you go in one day a week. You're going to
(22:20):
find something you like. Someone just finished up with me.
She's fifty four years old. She was I think married
three times. I could be mistaken fifth match dot com date,
fell in love. They're celebrating their sixteen week anniversary. They're
an adorable couple. It's never been healthier. He's her equal
and she didn't even know it was possible.
Speaker 1 (22:39):
Right, I'm going to work with you. You reached out,
but I've been crazy. I'm going to work with you.
I think this is interesting, even if it's for like
a even if it's for like a sociological experimental research.
I'm going to work with you and see what I think.
Because on here, I mean, you're really smart and really
get it and it's very digestible. So I really do
like it. Oh but here's the thing I think that's
(22:59):
interesting that I just thought of for the first time.
So you and I have talked about the reaction and
the pendulum. Like you with someone they were very controlling.
Now you want to be with someone that lets you
be independent if you don't. It's sort of like the
way that like your house will crumble if the foundation
isn't strong. So if you're in a relationship, let's put
let's take marriage out of all of this. We're not
talking about marriage because if you're with someone twenty five years,
(23:21):
we're not telling someone to dissolve your marriage because you're
not you know, that's different. Let's talk about like we're
talking about dating. So if you're in a relationship with
someone or dating someone and they show you who they
are so you are ready or getting these red flags
about they're cheap or they're controlling. I think the reason
the pendulum swings so far is because people stay in
(23:41):
way too long. It goes way too far. They have
absolute deal fatigue for that thing, so they really react.
But if you're in something, let's just say three months,
I think three months is three months is a critical period.
I think six months is a really critical period. And
you see after three months the red flags and someone's
showing you who they are, You're not gonna go and
swing the pendulum so far to the other direction because
(24:03):
you had three months of that. You it hasn't been
like ingrained and beaten into you where you are just
like shell shocked, and you need to do the opposite.
So if you're taking care of yourself and not accepting
less than what you deserve, or someone's not meeting you
where you're at, you won't get to that point and
you'll always be able to find your get back to
your baseline, get back to your true north and your
center of what you really believe is right for you,
(24:26):
versus it being some reaction.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
I really love when you do the hot take and
you land somewhere that's pretty profound and it's humbling to
me because again, I've been doing this for twenty years
and we say almost the same thing. So it's like,
maybe anybody could do this job. It's possible. I could,
at least I'm sort but it's possible. Right, But that's
(24:50):
you've just come back to the concept of being the CEO, so.
Speaker 1 (24:54):
You hind full circle. We can end maybe.
Speaker 2 (24:56):
Maybe three months in they get their health insurance. They don't.
You didn't sign a one year extension. You do with
a quarterly review. You check in on your feelings. So
just because the guy gets the job, I had a client.
This is just yesterday. That's true. I had a client yesterday,
lovely woman, beautiful, late thirties, wants to get married, have kids,
(25:17):
feeling kind of panicked about it. And she's so she's
trying to figure out from like the bumble profile, is
this guy going to be my husband? So she's looking
six or five finance guy, like I'm really like looking
for this guy, and I'm just like, you can't tell
anything from a profile. And she's basically paralyzed by indecision.
She's so afraid of making a mistake at this juncture
or juncture in her life. I don't want to choose
(25:39):
the wrong man and be stuck in some bad marriage.
I was like, you need to loosen up on this.
You're just going on a date, and if you go
out with a date and you're not inspired by him,
then you don't need to go on a second date.
Her fear is literally she's going to go out with
the guy and the next thing, you know, five years later,
she's a board house wife.
Speaker 1 (25:58):
And my date get that.
Speaker 2 (26:00):
My dating coach set me on that path, and I
was like, no, no, you have the power to say no.
After a FaceTime call, a first date, a kiss, a
third date one month at any point in time.
Speaker 1 (26:14):
But that's why I think the three month and the
six month period is important. I've never really assigned it
to this. I've said the three months is when you
decide are we doing The six months is like, wait,
are we really doing this? But I think those are
important because that's how you don't get too far down
the wrong road. We talk about it about. We often
talk about it being the right road. Like the guys
in control, like, we made it three months. This means
it's real. I'm going to meet his parents. We made
(26:35):
it six months. This means you're probably gonna get engaged,
versus like this is three months. This is like really, like,
let's be really honest because I don't have to go
too deep into this, and then the pendulum will have
to swing and up my whole entire bio rhythm and
system will be out of whack. So I like that
a lot, and it's different. No one talks about that.
That's very interesting.
Speaker 2 (26:55):
I talk about that shit all the time. Yeah, but
you're correct, you're just putting different label. You're putting different
labels on it, and so there is the I would say,
you know, six months, are we doing this. That's the
first time I told my wife I loved her right,
everything was nice and easy, and then six months in
and we're like, Okay, you're thirty eight, I'm thirty five.
(27:16):
We both want kids. We're not screwing around here. I'm Jewish,
you're Catholic. Can we work this stuff out?
Speaker 3 (27:22):
Yes?
Speaker 2 (27:23):
And if so, then I think we've got a pretty
smooth path right right. And the problem is, for most people,
the sunk cost fallacy is when you're on that track
with someone you love right, and then you see the
cracks in the armor and you don't want to see them. Oh,
he is a bit narcissistic. He does have a temporary.
Speaker 1 (27:43):
But you don't want to cut bait because you don't
want to have to swim back.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Right, because then I have to go back to the
shitty data people.
Speaker 1 (27:48):
It sucks.
Speaker 2 (27:48):
And that's how people end up in twenty year marriages
with people where they knew six months in it was
not yes.
Speaker 1 (27:55):
Yes, yes, preach. That's the problem. And also, as you
get older, you get to be my age, you meet
someone who's interesting, who's attractive, who you care about, you're like, wait,
and you're in your own head thinking, but I won't
meet anybody else in the same reason people do that
at twenty thirty forty the whole time. And you're right,
we have to have higher standards for ourselves and you
(28:15):
have to be able to cut bait if you need
to cut bait, and you have to.
Speaker 2 (28:17):
And that's why feeling and we're having a pretty cerebral conversation,
but that's why talking about feelings is so important. Women
in particular tend to ignore their feelings. Right. He is
a investment banker, a doctor.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
The ladies.
Speaker 2 (28:34):
We have amazing sex, you know, when we're connected. He's
so interesting, he's so generous with his family. So we
can come up with all the reasons, yes, and what
are we losing? I feel really anxious, like I don't
feel like I could be myself. I feel like if
I say the wrong thing, this whole thing could implode.
That is the opposite of what it feels like to
(28:54):
be in a healthy relationship. And then we hold on
to that, yeah, anxiety forever.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
You could someone could love you. You could know that
they love you, but you're not feeling loved.
Speaker 2 (29:04):
Right.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
You could know for a fact that they love you,
They've told you and you know it. In your body.
But if you're not feeling loved and taking care of it,
doesn't fucking matter.
Speaker 2 (29:12):
That's correct. And so what we do here is we
dump those guys. We don't say maybe I can get
him to know the way he did him the first
six weeks.
Speaker 1 (29:21):
No, no chasing the dragon amazing.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Well it's the saying uh, And you know this better
than I do because you've you've run much bigger businesses, higher, slowly, fire, quickly, nice.
Speaker 1 (29:34):
All right, that's a good place to stop. Guys. You
love this, My podcasting loves this.
Speaker 2 (29:39):
Thanks Evan, my pleasure, Thank you.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
Bye.
Speaker 2 (30:00):
We got to bat the back of burn
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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