November 20, 2023 • 55 mins
Chris Cuomo had a roller-coaster last few years…we’ve seen the reports and we’ve seen actions. But this is the first time he’s sitting down to answer the types of questions that only Bethenny can ask.
Find out what really went on, what he wishes he had done differently and what he’s happy he didn’t.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:11):
My guest today is American journalist and television news anchor
Chris Cuomo. He has interviewed presidents and world leaders, reported
from war zones, covered the nine to eleven terrorist attacks,
and shared hundreds of powerful, eye opening stories impacting the
lives of everyday Americans, and is currently at NewsNation, also
traveling around the country and the world covering world news events.
(00:36):
Chris was previously at CNN ABC's twenty twenty Good Morning America,
Fox News, and now he's hosting Cuomo at NewsNation. This
is just be with Chris Cuomo. Let's get into it,
all right. So, Chris, you and I know, I know you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I remember knowing you from years back.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I don't think I was as confident as I am
now to just start engaging. But back then, I think
you were friends with a guy named Franny who dated
my friend Michelle.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Right, Francis Grecco brand, the handsome man, we.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Called him, and you forgot that right.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
First turned into this great clinical psychologist who's helping all
of these vulnerable populations and has a really robust practice.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
That's so funny that Michelle became a social worker. So
they were actually decently matched at the time.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And that's when I met you and you were living
in the city. What had just gone to law school?
Like just running around live in the city, fun life
like we were.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Practicing law, practicing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Excess, practicing excess. Where did you grow up in the city.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Hollis Queen's And then when I was a teenager, they
moved me to Albany when my father became governor, and
I went to a military school there.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh okay, right right. I was in Queen's too, I
was in Forest Hills. And where did you go to school?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I went to a Catholic school, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And then what about college? Law school too?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
For college, I went to Yale and for law school
I went to Fordham in New York City.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So you were on the path, and what was your goal?
Do you always goal oriented? Because coming from a family
that's so accomplished, that would be laced with a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I would think to like be on some path, you.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Know, the family is very intense, but I wouldn't. I
think the idea of being an elite family really kind
of myths it a little bit, you know, Except for me,
this was a very normal Italian Catholic Queen's family. Even
(03:04):
when my father got into politics, which was late in life.
I'm much younger than my siblings, my oldest siblings sixteen
years apart, so you know, she knew a very different existence.
He was a lawyer, then he got involved in suing
the city, and then these guys at the Ninth Columpus
tried to get him into politics, and he started getting
(03:26):
in and just losing and losing and losing because he
didn't have any of the tools and the connections. So
I had two very different lives. I like to do
it as a joke. I say, thirteen years of my
life Archie Bunker kind of existence. You know, I knew
a lot of people like that. And then the next
(03:48):
ten years was Benson Executive Mansion, which was a museum
that had tours, and all of a sudden I was somebody,
you know, because so I knew what it was like
to just be a regular kid, regular person, regular ambitions.
I thought celebrities were the people who had made it
(04:09):
onto dance Fever from my neighborhood. I still remember their names,
Billy Nelly and Christina Trevellino. They were this it was
like whoa you met Denny Terrio. And then from that
to a parade of the most powerful and famous people
in the world because my father was such a magnet.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's a good recipe for politics, though, because you do
require a certain amount of polish and a certain amount
of grit for I think, you know what I mean.
You don't want to seem too precious and too privileged,
but you got it not seem too rough because you're
relating to so many different types of people.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
You don't scare people either.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You are correct up until maybe six seven years ago,
where now I'm not really sure what the formula is.
There's true ession without tiders that what you would call polish.
They see as elitist affect. And I think everything's kind
(05:11):
of up in the air right now about what matters
and what doesn't and having to have a side. Everything
is for or against. You know, we're coming up.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It is very Yeah, it's it's a zero sum game.
It's it's the craziest thing ever. It's it's it's the
upside down. But I and I think that there but
I think that there is a level now of people
just wanting authenticity, no matter what form it is.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
But they don't really know.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
You can't really know what authenticity is it's hard to
know because someone could just be a great actor.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
People can fake it till they make it. And also
you have all these haters telling you things about people
that you assume that what they're talking about, and they're
just making it up for advantage. I mean that's really
and I've seen this with you in your start them. Also,
you know that once you started to be an organic
avenue of your own success, people want your success. Uh
(06:07):
so they start to say things and create.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Narratives and all this, and you've got bred how to
navigate what you choose to take on, which the downside
on as a as you're as who you are.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
For people who know you, you would take it on.
But now you have people telling you, but Bethany, you're
just going to give it energy and you're going to
give it attention. Now more they're going to know. And
you're like, yeah, but this is true. I didn't do that.
I'm not like that. This isn't what it's about. And
it's they're just going to write it up, both sides
(06:42):
of it, and you're gonna lose and it's not worth.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It, and that totally.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Maria Striver was on here and she said she had
to be of service. That was what was going on
in her family like that, that she just had to
be of service. And it sounds like that's what must
have been going on with you, was that, like you
just had to do something.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I mean, the Shrivers are an extraordinarily advanced family in
terms of you know, you had Sergeant Shriver, you had
Eunice Kennedy, obviously Shriver, her brothers. They started so many
amazing things. I mean, they're kind of two generations deep
across board, whereas we're like two jobs deep.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, but it's still the you know, I'm raising our
kids is different than the way we were raised. So
you were half privileged, half street now yeah, and now
you have kids though that are fully privileged. And it's hard,
you know, like I've said before, it's hard to get
on the first class and be like, oh you have
to walk like it's just not going to be the same.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
And it's a very hard dance.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I'm sure it is. But of course, you know, look,
all pain is personal, and people only see what they
want to see, and there is a downside to the
upside for kids whose parents are somebody. I mean, people
see what they want to see. So there is a
price that goes along with fame and stardom, and you're
(08:03):
not allowed certain things that other people are. But of
course then you have benefits. Being in the news business
is a little bit of a tweener, you know what
I mean. You're not really a celebrity. You don't really
have a fan base. You know, it's a little different now.
It's changing because people are picking sides and they're becoming
commentators and stuff. But still with my kids, you know,
(08:25):
they had to deal with some shit that I really
wish that they hadn't had to. Yeah, and one of
my only regrets. I'm not a regret person. I really
don't believe it's a valuable thing. There are plenty of
things where I fucked up and I wish I hadn't
done that. I wish I hadn't gone that way. I mean,
it happens. It happened this morning, but I never knew. See,
(08:48):
when you're really focused on something and you know, your
aperture gets really tight. So for me, when my brother
was in trouble, you know what, you what were you
raised about? You're all family all the time. People are
gonna come after pop. They're gonna come after what's going on.
They're gonna be looking for you know that people are
gonna be looking at you. All you got is each other.
(09:08):
You're not gonna be like each other all the time,
and you're not going to like each other all the time,
but you're all you have.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
When shafick the Kardashians, well, yes, and starting on a
contemplated but you know that's how I was raised.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So when Andrew was in the suit, obviously I was
gonna help him, not that I had to cover for him.
This isn't a mafia caper. I didn't do things that
were wrong. I didn't work the press. I didn't go
after his accusers, and nobody has to believe me. I
gave a long interview with the Attorney General. They did
their fact finding. They found nothing different than what I'm saying,
(09:48):
and the people who are doing that stuff for Andrew
in the politics game will now testify that go after you.
He was nothing but a pest. You worked the meeting he.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Was, yeah, I'm of course I remember it, and we
all were sitting home stuck. So it was the worst
possible time it could happen, because you had to just
live in it. It was like people that got in
trouble during the pandemic, really like it was all we
could pay attention to, beside slow roasting chicken. And I
would say, these people didn't stand by you ultimately, so
(10:21):
you stood by your family. I guess you made a
good choice. What if you said to you know, fuck
you guys, I'm over here at CNN, and then they
left you for dead, like your family's not going to
leave you for dead, and you feel like you were
left by a family at CNN for dead.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
My family, I don't even know how to conceive of it.
You know, I've never had any one of my family
not be there before. I asked, right, what I mean
because I'm the youngest by so much, even though like
I'm old now, fifty three years old, but they see
things coming and dynamically you're they're there, like you don't
(10:56):
even ask, you know, when people say what was the
decision and helping your brother, I was like kind of
plum mixed by that. I was like, what process? What decision?
What do you mean I got trouble? You know? Right? No?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
No, no, it was your body and you were just
exactly I mean, I get it.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
There's a show.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh, the show, the Morning Show? Did you see the
Morning show? That that?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And and what's her name? It's Reese Waisman's character, and
her brother does something significantly worse. He storms the capitol
and she's not telling any she's not telling on him
as a journalist. And I was like, and Paul, my fiance,
was like her fucking brother. So, I mean, he said
it a thousand times to me, and he's, you know,
a pretty honorable guy, and he was like, I get it.
(11:41):
It's my father, my brother, Like, I get it. So
it was a hard situation.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
By the way, Oh what.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I said all along, I never had problems with people.
I never had people until it became weaponized politically. I
said at the beginning, look, I'm not going to cover
my brother's allegations. It doesn't make any sense. You know,
I'm by it on them, So I'm just not going
to cover it, which everybody got set it on TV.
But you know, look, you know there is a price.
(12:09):
You know, you sign up for this when you're in
the media. There are rules and that doesn't mean that
they're righteous rules, but there are rules.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And did you know the rules is are the handbook
that you know, and that you broke some rules or
that you pushed the line, like where is the line?
Should you've taken a hiatus, like taken six months off?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
What would you do differently?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I offered to take time off more than once. I
offered to leave more than once. They didn't want me
to leave. I was the number one guy, right, and
you know, everybody was like stop. Everybody gets it. It's
your brother and you're not doing it on TV, and
you know you're helping him in a private capacity, and
people get that this is a one off. There's only
(12:50):
one of you and one of him. Isn't something we
see all the time, but we get it. And you know,
they had changed their own standards. Andrew on TV more
during the pandemic because they wanted him on and obviously
it was going to be easier for me to get
him on TV than you, right. You know what happened
was the rule is what goes up comes down, and
(13:15):
all that shine on Andrew as the love GOV and
all that other bullshit. They hated it in the media
because you know, they didn't want to love up my brother.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You know, well they know they loved it for a while.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
When Ellen and Chelsea Handler, and I will be honest
with you. I thought he was basking in it a little.
I thought it was like a little month. I thought
it went too far, like every morning we're having I
thought it went too far. That was my honest, like
as a civilian's opinion. I was just like, I believe
in the wolves at the end of the bed. I
believe that when you feel like you're peaking the wave
(13:49):
is cresting, figure out what the fuck you're gonna do.
It's not trees grow high, they don't grow to the sky.
So I was going to ask you, I have this
wolves at the end of the bed thing, and do
you have that? Because if you were flying at the
top and your brother Dan gets in trouble and it doesn't,
didn't it feel swollen?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Look. I used to talk to my brother on a
regular basis, telling him, enjoy it. Now, what goes up
comes down. You know they're gonna be coming for you.
It's just a question of time. And he wasn't one
of their favorites to begin with. I never contemplated it
would take the shape that it did. And for your metaphor,
I don't think the wolf is at the end of
the bed. The wolf is in the bed most of
(14:27):
the fight. You know, I wouldn't mind if it was
a wolf. You know, the wolf's gonna bite you, and
if you do the right things, you're gonna kill it.
And in this well, you can't they get to judge,
you know, what's right, what's wrong, what to put in whatnot,
and they're look. I think the American media is one
(14:50):
of the strongest pillars of our democracy, and it's certainly
better than anything I've seen anywhere else in the world.
But that doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean that
things can't come out wrong. And you know what's the
life lesson? The life lesson is forward forward. I cannot
change anything. I am such a wet blanket on so
(15:14):
much magical thinking. My wife runs a wellness business called Purist,
and she's very spiritual and she's very into this, and
she believes and energetic qualities of our assistance and all
that stuff. And to me, it's like, there's no faith,
there's no destiny, there's no luck. What happens in life
is probability and chance and what you do with it,
agree and you make things happen. It's not going to
(15:36):
happen anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I'm saying like, it's twenty twenty three and you're from
my generation, and I get more views on my social
media and make literally two and a half times the
money I made at my highest payday on Housewives. Now
I'm ahead of you in defecting from you know, the
mainstream television sphere. But I'm saying, when you put the
(15:59):
pieces together different way, the puzzle takes really nice shape.
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
But you are different than I am. You are an
actual entity and commodity that people identify with certain values,
certain likes, certain interests, and certain appeal. And I'm not
surprised that you have been very successful, and I actually
(16:28):
am not even that imp I don't think that you're
anywhere near where you're going to be given what you
mean to so many different people in our society. I
am different. I am not because I can't be as
satisfying to people. I don't have a set value of
why do you watch this guy? I'm very frustrating for people,
(16:51):
you know, even on things that like, you know, people
want to be black and white, which is everything in
our society right now. You know, and I get so
much with digital media. Everybody threatens to kill you. You now,
you know, like death threats, you know, become such a
water down commodity. But it's like, stop showing the Palestinian injured.
(17:13):
We don't know that the video is real. Okay, stops
saying that Israel has an existential threat. Everything's so binary.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, and you so first of all, you're so right
about it being so black and white. Now more than ever.
You can't have a conversation. You can't say I voted
for that person. It's your fucking moron because I went
to Harvard and you went to whatever. You're an idiot,
Like you can't be like, oh, why did you vote
for that part? I talk about this to Chris Wallace.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
You cannot.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So people closet vote, they hide, they hide their opinions.
You cannot have a different opinion. And it's so much hate.
And it's supposed to be the time now where everyone's
supposed to be honest and open, and it's scary. So you,
as a person who has a party, you're on a side.
I'm sure you're flexible in certain matters. I mean, you're
of a brain and a mind, and a heart. But
how do you stick to your guns? Like in other words,
(18:02):
Meghan Kelly's over there sticking her guns, Tucker Cross and
sticking to his guns, Cannice Owens.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
They have big followings and they don't on the right.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
It's easy. The right is an animal. And as long
as you're savaging the left and feeding people's outrage and grievance,
we're addicted to grievance. But this job that she's doing now,
she's made for Tucker Carlson, all these guys who have
an agenda of motivating certain feelings and grievance. You don't
(18:32):
have that in the regular world. And like I, not
only do I not have a party, I think people
should leave the political parties. They are absolutely the root
of our problems. You never have them. They're not in
the constitution, they're not creatures of law. Even the Supreme
Court is said, they're just the function of tradition. They
shouldn't control our process and that's the only way we
(18:54):
can get back. A plurality of the country says they're independent,
they don't want to be in either of the parties.
That's our best.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So I don't buy this about you.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think you're very very passionate, very smart, you're handsome,
you're charming, you're funny. So why so where you've landed
now at news Nation? What is this for you?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
What do you and where do you have to temper
the chocolate? You can't fully express your opinion.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
No, it's not about that. It's that it's just not satisfying.
Like if you take an issue, you know, you got
to have like this determined side where everybody who doesn't
believe what you believe is toxic and that's what sells.
That's what people are looking for, this outrage machine. Now
will it stay like this? Yeah? Kind of It's always
(19:53):
been this way. We just have more magnification of minority
voices and opinions through social media than we used to have,
and we're gonna have to balance that out with reach
versus relevancy and value. You know, the marketplace will find
its way. But you know, I'm not saying that I
don't know how to communicate. It's that left is mad
with me right now. I barely get Democrats on my show.
(20:16):
Why well, either they're pissed and Andrew, or they're pissed
at me by extension, or they're pissed because I have
too many people who are on the right on and
I don't believe. And I keep saying that the parties suck,
and they're like, yeah, okay, the parties are imperfect, but
this is our system and the right is so much worse. Chris,
(20:38):
that you're creating a false equivalency.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Why don't you just get a little unhinged like this,
Like just be not so polished, not so perfect, not
so organized. It just be a little off the fucking grid,
like be a little I've seen, but it's always a
little more newsy, more like the traditional newsy, more than this.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, I would like to see you fully on.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I'm not, first of all, I'm not an unhinted person.
It doesn't work for me, you know. I people think
they're giving me a compliment. They say, man, Bethany, even
though this isn't your personality, Bethany was I'm coming at
you man, And you just was sitting there looking you
almost had like a little bit of a smile on
(21:21):
your face. How do you do that? It's very simple. One.
When you've been doing this as long as I have,
you understand that someone says the moment that I say oh, Bethany,
I don't agree with you about which way we're going
to take this product. You know you're an idiot. I'm
an idiot as soon as you start talking about you personally, obviously,
(21:46):
I don't have the ammunition on the argument anymore. Right,
that's one. As a guy who has done nothing but
study self defense and different fighting techniques for so many years,
I don't take talk as the kind of provocation that
most people do. When someone starts insulting me. In my mindset,
(22:08):
how I am as a person, like my personality is
as long as we're talking, there's no there's no threat here.
You say whatever you want to say about me. I
return the fire. But it's not because I'm some nice guy.
It's that it's that you know, well, if we're going
to have a real problem, then you're not gonna talk.
You're gonna try to hurt me. Not you as a woman,
(22:29):
because no, no, no, I know. But when a guy
is saying mean things, say your mean things. We're still talking.
Keep talking. I think it makes you look bad, But
say whatever you want to say. Now, threaten my kids,
put your hand on me. We have a very situation
and I'm in the I'm in the hurt business. Once
we do that, and that makes you very uncivilized. And
(22:51):
I'm going to get in trouble. And I've gotten in
trouble in the past, and I get it. But I'm
not asking for people's vote, and I'm not a leader.
But it's very easy easy for me to say civilized
people are coming on to attack a position that I
don't even hold.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, do you sometimes enjoy? I mean, first of all,
you're unflappable, is what you're describing. But when when someone
says to me, I was just talking about this yesterday,
someone on TikTok, it could be anything or Instagram or somewhere.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Oh she wow, she.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Looks old, I'm like, I am old, Like I don't
mind an insult, like I kind of absorb it and
turn it into I'll turn chicken shit into chicken salad
every day. I will, and I'll slap back, not in
a way where I'm fighting with someone in like Twitter
or something, but where I'll just disarm I beg someone
who cares. They'll say, I, like, I think you care
(23:38):
because you're here, Like you could go somewhere else, Like
I kind of I don't want to say I enjoy it,
but it means there's a pulse out there, if that
makes any sense. Like I'm like, okay, I'm getting you.
You're alive out there, all right. We're not agreeing with
everything I say, but okay.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
You're not a you know, you're not someone who's gonna
let somebody get away with things either. But there is
a comfort when someone's saying you don't look good. You
do look good, and you know you have confidence in that.
So it's one thing. What happens to me is it's
not you don't look good. It's more that I am
(24:17):
being placed as part of a problem in society, anti American,
anti this, anti that, part of this deep state, all
this shit that is very hard to dispel. I mean,
the prayer with this place, with News Nation is that
they really seem to this point to be on the
(24:37):
same page with Listen, I'm talking to regular people in
a regular way. You want to talk words and concepts
and history whatever. It's all I am as a student
of this. I study everything all the time. This is
my hobby, it's my vocation and my advocation. But that's
not what I do on the show.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Are you defined more by being pigeonholed into Democratic principles,
or by your brothers by protecting your brother, covering for
your brother.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
What's defining you?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
What do people in your community think, what a former
colleagues think. You see somebody in the city at a restaurant,
what do people think.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
My community where we live out in East Hampton, which
is actually a pretty trumpy place, has been so good
to me when they when I was really in the
barrel and the paparazzi were coming after me and everybody's
they were very protective, even guys who don't like you know,
once they know me, they understand that I don't have politics.
(25:38):
I really don't. I mean people, do I back Democrats
absolutely if they name Cuomo, you know what I mean.
If my brother's running for he's the guy I think
you should vote for him. Why my brother, that's why,
and I love him and I believe he's the best.
But other Democrats. No, the party doesn't resemble anything like
what my father's party was. And do I vote Democrat? Yeah, occasionally.
(26:03):
I'm not registered this one unless Andrew's running, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
And then people more mad at you for being for
thinking that you're a Democrat or for thinking that you're
a Cuomo.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Anti Trump, deep state, mainstream media whatever that means, Andrew
is like at the bottom except for the media. For
the media all.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
About that because they need a reason, they need to
put it put, They need to skate something to put.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
On the rule and what The only thing that bothers
me about it is and again, because you know, you
can't fix things. You can only fix forward. You can't
fix in the past. Time doesn't work like that. But
the idea one. It pisses me off that all these
people in the media tell me what happened with me
and my job was wrong. Oh now you want to
(26:53):
say that, But that bothers me a little bit, but
I get it. That's how people become conciliatory. The other
thing that bothers me is so you don't think that
people in the media talk to and advised politicians. That's
that's what you want people to believe that you, oh
my god, never called up or had a relationship with
(27:16):
a politician where you gave them advice. Wo when're in trouble,
You've never said to a politician, oh man, this is
playing bad. You better watch. You don't think there are
reporters who came.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
It's the one what comes to mind to me is
like a Hannity or O'Reilly, Like that's who I think of,
like calling up.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
They're not journalists. I'm talking about the same guys and
women who have the high ground okay, you know, like
they're not on the phone if they can get access.
And and the politicians I grew up in this be
like I watched this happen with and where they would
talk to legendary journalists Residentacalarry Jack Newfield, I mean like
(27:57):
the real guys and they'd marry him a rory and
where they'd be like, so why don't you like this position?
What's your problem with that? And they'd be like, well,
here's a problem with this is the crime rate is
up here and the people sixty two percent said they
want the death penalty, and you keep yelling about no
death penalty means going to beat you. Is that journalism?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Or other advice about his position on the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, I didn't think about how you grew up and like,
you know, that's so crazy. That's I didn't think about
what you don't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Kind of thing. That's the monstrably false. So there's a
little bit of a hypocrisy. But look, I really I
talk about it because it's over And.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Are you writing a book on this whole?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Like you need to write a book called not politically Speaking,
because you're talking about a lot about it not being political.
I think you should be like, are you writing a
book on this anymore?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
When you look at what's happening and what people are
fighting about at the highest levels, the highest levels. We
just had a US senator decide he's not going to
run and he can't even decide if he wants to
run for president. Why because you don't know where the
safe space is. And you know, mister Rogers taught us
when we were growing up, look for the helpful people.
(29:09):
Who are fucking helpful people. Everybody's gonna hurt, seems these days.
One minute that your friend, the next minute they're coming
after you. And I get it. And that's why I
believe that the remedy is regularity. Just think about the
rest of your life. Because I just came to my
parent teacher conferences, Christina stayed behind. That's real life. Sitting down.
(29:31):
Wait what a minute, wait what he didn't turn in?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
What I saw this right, you're saying, we spent all
this time obsessing over things that don't come into play
in our lives most of the time.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah what what? Now?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
What does your wife think about all this? You guys
must have been through a roller coaster. You definitely have
been through a crazy time. Your wife, dynamic your family?
Does your brother feel guilty?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
What's the dynamics swirling with everybody? There's gotta be some
resentment or some odjita with everybody?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
There was, you know, twenty plus years of marriage, three kids,
thirteen to twenty. There's plenty of them in and odgy to
go around at. Look, there is no question. And I
am trying, you know, to find ways to make this
(30:24):
something other than just what it is. But this is natural.
They got an unnatural life and I made it worse.
Why because I dragged them into something that I wasn't
even aware. I did not see this storm coming. I
knew Andrew had trouble as soon as there was a
(30:45):
handful of allegations in the Democratic Party. Allegations are enough.
I knew he had trouble.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I was telling you're saying you dragged your family, But
does he feel he dragged you? And your family.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Okay, Andrew feels tremendous skill little brother. All he wants
is good things for me. He taught me how to
ride a bike. He taught me how to play football.
You know, my father was taking care of you guys.
You know, he was in service pretty much my whole life,
and he was obsessed with that. As you know, first
generation born in this country. He believed that he owed
(31:16):
it to America to do whatever he could, especially in
New York. Andrew taught me everything. All of my interests
in hobbies I learned from my brother.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Oh, I take care of old cars. Andrew's a master mechanic.
I fish. I'm much better at it than Andrew, but
I whatever I do. All the fighting, Andrew was an
amazing fighter. He's a great boxer. I don't box, but
I mean, you know, so the idea that i'd be
there for him, he'd be there for me, I've never
considered any other option. Doesn't mean we get along all
(31:47):
the time. Doesn't mean that he doesn't want to crack
my head like an egg every once in a while.
But you know he does. He feel guilty about it. Sure,
one hundred levels. He had the mandate of the people
of New York to do a job that he had
to leave because of this, and it haunts him, and
it haunts him that everybody had to deal with it,
(32:08):
including my wife and kids and his kids, young empowered women.
This was tough, and you know, you can't pretend it
to happen. You can't try to make it something that
it wasn't. You've got to see it for what it was.
And the most important part of what it was is
(32:28):
in the past. Is there a lesson for next time?
Not really, because when's the next time that my person
and I'm getting to this catacausm where I got to
make a decision about whether or not to watch and
burn or what you know. So that's not so helpful,
that's not so instructive. I do take a lot of solace,
as most of us should, if we're if we work
on ourselves, if we have that insecurity to drive us
(32:51):
through that, which I certainly do where I'm like, oh shit,
I shouldn't do that again. You know. Let me try
this a different way. Let me try to work on this.
Let me try to work on this in therapy. Let
me try to work on this. Uh with a life coach.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Working on yourself right, you stick stick of like workshopping
the spirituality and bs of it. You just want to
like this is now, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
The spirituality is not so much my thing. Philosophy is
my thing. I'm fine with spirituality. Just let me see
how you use it, don't put it on me. I
don't want conversations about why you're so right about what
you believe. So I work on myself all the time.
Why we'll plenty to do, That's why. And I am
(33:34):
racked with uh, negative emotions about the whole situation. I mean,
I lost a tremendous amount.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I'm sorry, you're raw.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Not raw. I'm just realistic, you know. And I'm flawed
and I don't believe in fair. My therapist says it's
the only four letter word. Look. Ultimately, everybody figures out
what their strengths are. I have two real strengths. Okay,
one's personal, one's professional. My personal strength is I have
an amazing ability, a gift to draw better people than
(34:14):
I am to me, my friends and the people in
my life. Like last night, I just did a talk
with Chuck d from public enemies and friends of mine
for a long time, I have all these mentors in
my life who are like just a little ahead of
me in life, some of them behind. On the on
the fight side, a lot of the guys are younger,
even though my main coach is in the sixties, and
(34:36):
they're better than me at whatever it is that connects us.
They're better and they be better. They're better fathers, they're
better husbands, they're better fighters, they're you know, they're they're
better at these things. And professionally, my ability is to interpret.
I don't come up with the idea. I don't come
(34:56):
up with the position. I have an ability, I think
through training, disposition, and experience where I can take things
that you say about whatever it is that you're relevant
on in that moment and then say to people who
don't know what the way you do. Look, here's what
she meant, okay, or here's why this matters and this
(35:19):
is not what you're being told, or you need to
listen to this part more.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That's what I'm able to do, crystallizing it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And I think that there is a need for that
right now, not Herey Biden shouldn't be president. There's plenty
of people to do that, plenty of people. For me,
it's what do you need? What do you need? What
matters to you? You know, the reason you have shitty
(35:47):
candidates is because you have a shitty process that one
squeezes people in these very narrow lanes to get to power,
and nobody wants to get it best and he doesn't
want to run for office and have people dig into it.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
That's an interesting concept too. Right when we were kids,
it was like you could be president in it. I
actually think because of all the relief work, everyone's always
like run for president. I'm like, what, I don't even
want to like work with the government on relief work.
I don't want to have to answer to anybody and
be part of any of that.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
That sounds like a disaster. I can't imagine wanting that job.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Eve. It's the salvation too, because we've become too top
heavy and in our local Community's another thing that regular
people know. Okay, So like Christina, because you know, Christina
is the virtue one, Like you know, I hate to
do stereotypes, but we have them for a reason, right,
Christina is the melding of this and this, you know
what I mean, and all this, you know, everything's.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
A nail to me and I was listening.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
He did heart and head and then she's he's I'm sorry,
she's the heart and the head and he's the fist.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, and you know, intellectual, I know a lot, but
in terms of behavior, dynamics and relationships, I'm the warrior,
I'm the protector.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
And what does that make you? Are you emotionally intelligent?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
I am. I work on it all the time. I
have some gifts. I was raised by women. I have three,
six older than me, and of course my mother who's
still with us, And I lived with my grandparents for years,
and my grandfather was senile, so my grandmother was really
you know. I used to have to follow my grandfather around.
(37:35):
He like walk away and beautiful men grosser and so
I had a lot of alpha women strong and that
wasn't a thing then. It was just like the way
you were supposed to be.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I want to talk about Christina though, like, what how
do you have a twenty year marriage? I don't know
if it's thriving. I know it's surviving because I mean,
you got through what you got through and you're together.
But I've only the longest relationship I've ever been in
is five years. I know, that I say that like embarrassed,
you know, like I like, like, I've never said that
to anybody before out loud, because I don't, you know,
(38:23):
want people to realize it's true.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
But it's true.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And so I always am. I always struggle between the
fairy tale and the reality and the struggle and the
thriving and the surviving and a relationship when I look
at other people's relationships, because I know people have problems
and struggle and I kind of want to hear about
your relationship a little bit.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Any any adult knows that one a relationship is work
more than it is anything else. You can embody it
in an emotional principle like love, but what what is?
What is love? Love? In this context is somebody else's
needs and wants matter as much to you as your own.
(39:06):
It's too easy today. I'd take a bullet for you. Yeah, yeah,
I know. Would you give me the last an espresso pod? Yes?
So that you know it's about the context and people pose, okay,
they want you to think good things about them. You
wander about your marriage about this, and you know, when
(39:30):
you're examined as much as we are, you wind up
a lot of letting a lot of that shit go.
You know, well, why are you still married? Well, because
that's the sum total of our existence. What does that mean? Well,
that's what we see in our families. You know, there
have been some marriages that haven't worked. It's nothing wrong
with that. Marriages isn't a natural condition. This is construct
(39:56):
that was developed for good and bad reasons over different
cultural aeriots. But the kids matter more, you know, and
they need us, and there's that, Uh, it's hard. There's
an acceptance of hard much more on her part. It
is work and the upside of.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, then she has to accept that it's going to
be hard because you were saying that it's hard to
be in a relationship with you or your life that
you chose for you.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
To harder to be in a relationship with me than
it is to be in a relationship with her.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
That's no, that's exactly my situation. I'm you.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, shocking, but yeah, i'm you.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
You are not me. Do you understand, Like.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
No, in the dynamic, I'm you, it's not at dragon,
you know, I'm like having a believe in Dragon. I'm
like i am I'm like having a pet porcupine. Okay,
because anything that's I don't want anyone to ever like
tell me what to do, put me in like I
(40:58):
has to. I just you could say to me, we're
having turkey for lunch, and I'm like why, Like, I
just don't. I like to be free as a person.
Like so it's funny. I'm very prickly about just nothing.
I only sweat small stuff. The big stuff is no problem.
I don't care about any of the big stuff. It's
the tiny stuff that really I'm problematic about.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Relationships. It's also about like, you know, look, there is
no one size fits all. I love reading books on
relationships because it's so it's such an exaggerated idea that
there's something that works for everybody. It's like that, and
(41:41):
every situation is different. And well, this marriage works because
they don't live in the same state. And this marriage
works because this is all the people in there chosen
ethnicity or this is all they do is this. And
this works because there's a codependency, you know. And this
works because they just are both into the same thing.
They're obsessed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Now, yeah, there's a guy that we buy what we
bought watches from before, this guy and you know, he's
he's a watch he sells watches, so he's like half
an asshole. But I'll say, gee, I'll say, I'm not
gonna say his name. He's an asshole. And Paul said
to me, yeah, but he's our asshole. So like sometimes
I look upon, I'm like, you're an asshole, but but
he's my asshole.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So it's sort of like that, you know what I mean, accommendation.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Look, here's the problem with the dynamic, and this is
the struggle, right, is that it's inherently selfish. Love is selfish.
I tell my daughters all the time, be selfish and
love whatever you want. You don't do anything for some
guy you're not pretty because he says you're pretty, all right,
(42:47):
you want to have him by the face and kiss him.
You know, the whole shotgun and a shovel thing. I
got over that, you know, as long as it's on you,
and this is what you want, the knock yourself out
your choice? Fine, but but what do we see? We
see that very often people are making choices because they
(43:09):
think those are the right choices to make. And this
is an inherently selfish dynamic for us. You and I
start fooling around the moment I start doing something that
doesn't work for you. Gone. It could be a little
I told this cat, he texts me this way one
(43:30):
more time. He's a ghost. I do it again. Damn.
When you're married, people no longer have that cautionary idea
about best behavior. It's like, especially once you have kids together,
it's like, where are you going? You know what I mean,
You're gonna and those things start to not matter anymore.
(43:53):
It's like, does this all my friends call me mo?
There's most still texture like that be Yeah, I don't
give a shit anymore. You know what I care about
is whether or not the dog throw up last night,
you know what I mean. It's like, so you know,
there's a French expression that a guy used at my wedding,
which I thought was like the worst thing he could
have ever said, But I've learned to appreciate it over
the years. He said in French it's called les petite more.
(44:19):
I don't speak French little deaths, And he said that
love is a series of tiny deaths. And I was like,
in my wedding day, but it is the self has
to die. Now. I know there's a million psychologists out
there who going to tell me in therapists that I'm
bullshit and you got to live within your own truth
and you must be growing. Hasn't been my experience, my experiences,
(44:42):
get over yourself. All right, Yeah she did that. Yeah
he did that. Yeah that was fucked up? Now what right?
You know? Normanlear gave me great life advice when I
was in the barrel. There are only two questions you
have to ask. He was listening to me for like
ten minutes. Talk to somebody, and he said, uh, so
(45:03):
what now what?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh there's a book. Yeah that's yeah, so what now?
Speaker 3 (45:11):
So hard to practice, but it's like, okay, yeah, b
did that. That's what happened, and it hurt. Now what?
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Doctor Amador wrote a book called I'm right, You're wrong?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Now what?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I love it. It's just like the same thing now
what It's good?
Speaker 6 (45:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
So what about intimacy though? How do you how important
is intimacy? How does it sustain? After twenty years? And
I'm not singling you out of asked a lot of
people about this, like what you know, how important is it?
Speaker 3 (45:39):
It's all about needs and wants. It's all about needs
and wants, and everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Paul says, needs and wants to and.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Then age matters. Okay, women fifty five, although we are
there's always like some new understanding. My wife's not here.
I'm saying, like, you get into that range where bodies
are changing, you know what what what we crave starts
to change? Right the guys, I was like, oh, you know,
so you know there are all these different factors that
(46:10):
go into it. But again it's not one size fits all.
You can have where they fuck like rabbits, you know,
I have they been married forever, they have like I
always having sex. I've never and I thought they were
like kidding me, they're making it up, but then I'm
making up. Then I have other ones that like, you know,
they don't even know what they look like naked anymore.
You know, it's right there is you don't know, and
(46:31):
I don't can't tell you that this couple it doesn't
mean as much to me as this couple, or that
I don't appreciate what they're about as much, or that
they don't seem to love each other as much. It's
just different. Everybody's got different and we love to judge them.
We love to judge them, and we love when relationships fail,
you know, like this Jada Pinkett Smith's ship. Oh my god,
(46:54):
I what I don't understand? And this is I'm a journalist,
I'm on cable TV. Both things. I have zero interest
in people's love lives, even though that's not what marriage is.
But unless it's instructive of something that applies almost.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Universally, right, like this takeaway for you?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Why is everybody lifting the veil now in a different
like Megan and Harry veil lifted.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Let's show it.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
All Victoria Beckham and David Beckham like they're very wealthy, successful,
way lift the veil?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
He cheated?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
This happened like Will Smith like a list actor, like
lifting the veil? Why is everybody want like everybody know everything?
You don't want to want to know everything? To rip
the example.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Culture dominates, especially with celebrities. Everybody you just picked is
a celebrity, and people who crave attention and following. We
are addicted to grievance. We went through a phase where
you can lift the veil as long as it was
a funk of you going to rehab, you know, and
(48:02):
you getting on that thing. That was That phase is
over now it's just who's more fucked up, what's the
next fucked up thing?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
But it's not good for business because I think they're
doing it for followers, and like Victoria Beckham is selling
clothes the way that Kim does online, and maybe it's
got to be only about money. But like I don't
think it's good for Will's business. Maybe it's good for hers.
It's not good for business at all.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (48:27):
My ep Dusty, who have known for thirty years, and
my our oldest who's a twenty year old girl, and
even my wife will all tell me the same thing.
I look at Kardashian and I say, I remember when
that video came out. I remember how that video was
(48:50):
about ray J being endowed in a way that you
do not normally see like Lee that's right side act
was who he was having sex with? Who? And I
remember this. I remember that this point of fast, I
didn't know who she was. Nobody did, and it was
is she like sleeping through this right now? With this
(49:13):
you know this guy, the prowess that this guy was
bringing there in the situation, How is she sleeping through this?
How is she even barely aware? And it was almost
like a joke, and then it blew up and I'll say, look,
you gotta respect the success. I respect success, but I
also believe. So what they'll correct me on is, no,
(49:36):
that's all you see. You got stuck there that you
see just that we don't see that. We see the
next eight moves that made her who we're interested in watching.
Then you only remember that because you're an old man
and you're not into any of the stuff about them,
because you don't watch any reality TV.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (49:54):
You understand how she plays within the sisters dynamic and
the male and the babies and the landing.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
And the products and the chess. There's a lot of
chess moves there.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Understand all of that.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
You and like you, she comes from a powerful matriarch.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
You come from a powerful patriarch, like she's like the
mom is very very you know, the Joseph Kennedy of
the situation.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
So I used to be very like and I'm sure
I've said publicly, I was like, you know, when you
have the Kardashians, like, you know, your billionaires and the
people everyone's looking up to, you know, you got to
you gotta take a you got to stop and think. Well,
now that I have stopped and thought, because one of
the gifts, although I don't recommend it. Is when you
get shit canned and you're sitting on your ass and
(50:38):
your toxic and you got a year or so, do
you you got a lot of choices about how to
spend that time. And once I really went in on
myself about I got to figure some shit out. I
got to figure out how to get out of this
hole and not get a job. I knew i'd get
a job. I'm good at what I do, but I
(50:59):
I you know, I could practice law, I could do
all kinds of stuff. But the it was knowing I
got to figure out, like what matters to me? Because
this was so unsettling that I couldn't see myself ever
going back into the media. When it happened, I was like,
now it's just too fucked up. Oh yeah, And I
was like, what am I about? What do I care about?
(51:20):
Why do I care about it? Why do I why?
Why are these things fucked up about me? And what
have I not been listening to? And I was talking
to my therapist and he's like, all right, good, So
if you're willing, if you're ready to listen, I'll start
telling you the same things I've been telling you for
the last ten years and whether it was you know
what was the lesson that's worth it because you know,
(51:41):
my story itself gets kind of tedious? Is The word
forward is obviously directional, right, but it's also suggestive of
an intentionality. If you can inculcate who concepts into your
life on a daily basis, this is straight up pragmatism. Okay,
(52:03):
this requires no belief in anything bigger than yourself and
your own reasoned choice. And they both start with the
same three letters, but for different reasons, forgive and forward.
If you can live those two ideas, you will absolutely
(52:27):
no matter what you're dealing with. You've got terminal illness,
you've got financial problems that are almost irreconcilable. You've got
some asshole in your life that you don't know how
to get rid of without a cost, and you a
lot of money. You've got kids that you're worried about
or they're worried about you. You have addiction, whatever it is,
those mechanisms of forgiving yourself, because that's why we don't
(52:52):
get better. The reason that I don't get better at
things is because I don't believe I deserve to. I
make the same fucking mistakes and poor choices in relationships. Whatever.
The efficient buddy could be, my wife could be somebody.
Just why because I'll put myself into the same situations
because I don't believe I deserve anything better. I haven't
(53:14):
really processed why I would do this and what I'm
getting out of it or not getting out of it,
and what I'm giving up. I don't do that because
I'm a self loather. But that's a cheap it's easy.
You self loather. Oh you know I'm a self loather,
So I'm i'm.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Now because then you limit yourself by categorizing yourself with that.
It pushes you down, it limits you.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Who structure Now, that's nature nurture. Also, I was raped
self loath. Uh. And my brother is a self loather. Uh.
He's also a genius, so he has like an offset
of intellectualism with it. But it's I see it in
myself like you and I will be I don't working
out whatever, it's something something simple, and you'll be like,
(53:58):
you know, you'll do whatever you do, and I'll be like,
look at you feeling good about that. That ain't shit.
I can do twice what you just did, and you're like, yeah,
but what I did was good for me. No, I'm
the standard. If you're not better than me, you suck.
Now what is that? That's not healthy? Because why am
(54:19):
I putting myself in a position of such low esteem?
Why would you believe that whatever you are is the
absolute minimum standard of anything? Why would you do that
to yourself? Well, you know life is so hard, failure
and setbacks and disappointment is so guaranteed. Why would you
(54:43):
do anything to short yourself on upside? Because I can't forgive,
and I struggle with.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
I am better with all I think, then I think.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
I spoke to Rob Low about when he was twenty
six what happened, And it wasn't even he said his
low wasn't even w and during at the convention he
said it was like doing the Academy Awards and doing
the snow white bit. But anyway, he said, like he
was intentionally crashing himself into a brick wall. He needed
to like, so this could be your moment of your life,
(55:14):
your brick wall that you some people. Nobody gets out
without paying the bill, so.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
You're riding high. You're good.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Look, nobody gets out without paying the bill, so this
you're paying the bill.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
But here's the thing. Look, I believe that the rent
is do every day and the problems are the same,
The challenges are the same. The manifestations change, but the
rules remain the same. Forgiveness is the only way.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
So who do you forgive? And how do you move forward?
You're moving forward, You're forgiving. Who do you have to forgive?
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Do you forgive? CNN? Do you watch it?
Speaker 1 (55:49):
You forgive Jeffice, Jeff Zucker Do you still hold anger?
Speaker 6 (55:53):
Like?
Speaker 2 (55:53):
What's what's the arc
My guest today is American journalist and television news anchor
Chris Cuomo. He has interviewed presidents and world leaders, reported
from war zones, covered the nine to eleven terrorist attacks,
and shared hundreds of powerful, eye opening stories impacting the
lives of everyday Americans, and is currently at NewsNation, also
traveling around the country and the world covering world news events.
(00:36):
Chris was previously at CNN ABC's twenty twenty Good Morning America,
Fox News, and now he's hosting Cuomo at NewsNation. This
is just be with Chris Cuomo. Let's get into it,
all right. So, Chris, you and I know, I know you.
Speaker 2 (00:56):
I remember knowing you from years back.
Speaker 1 (00:59):
I don't think I was as confident as I am
now to just start engaging. But back then, I think
you were friends with a guy named Franny who dated
my friend Michelle.
Speaker 3 (01:09):
Right, Francis Grecco brand, the handsome man, we.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
Called him, and you forgot that right.
Speaker 3 (01:17):
First turned into this great clinical psychologist who's helping all
of these vulnerable populations and has a really robust practice.
Speaker 1 (01:28):
That's so funny that Michelle became a social worker. So
they were actually decently matched at the time.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Yep.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
And that's when I met you and you were living
in the city. What had just gone to law school?
Like just running around live in the city, fun life
like we were.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Practicing law, practicing.
Speaker 2 (01:49):
Excess, practicing excess. Where did you grow up in the city.
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Hollis Queen's And then when I was a teenager, they
moved me to Albany when my father became governor, and
I went to a military school there.
Speaker 1 (02:05):
Oh okay, right right. I was in Queen's too, I
was in Forest Hills. And where did you go to school?
Speaker 3 (02:14):
I went to a Catholic school, okay.
Speaker 2 (02:17):
And then what about college? Law school too?
Speaker 3 (02:20):
For college, I went to Yale and for law school
I went to Fordham in New York City.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
So you were on the path, and what was your goal?
Do you always goal oriented? Because coming from a family
that's so accomplished, that would be laced with a lot
of pressure.
Speaker 2 (02:38):
I would think to like be on some path, you.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
Know, the family is very intense, but I wouldn't. I
think the idea of being an elite family really kind
of myths it a little bit, you know, Except for me,
this was a very normal Italian Catholic Queen's family. Even
(03:04):
when my father got into politics, which was late in life.
I'm much younger than my siblings, my oldest siblings sixteen
years apart, so you know, she knew a very different existence.
He was a lawyer, then he got involved in suing
the city, and then these guys at the Ninth Columpus
tried to get him into politics, and he started getting
(03:26):
in and just losing and losing and losing because he
didn't have any of the tools and the connections. So
I had two very different lives. I like to do
it as a joke. I say, thirteen years of my
life Archie Bunker kind of existence. You know, I knew
a lot of people like that. And then the next
(03:48):
ten years was Benson Executive Mansion, which was a museum
that had tours, and all of a sudden I was somebody,
you know, because so I knew what it was like
to just be a regular kid, regular person, regular ambitions.
I thought celebrities were the people who had made it
(04:09):
onto dance Fever from my neighborhood. I still remember their names,
Billy Nelly and Christina Trevellino. They were this it was
like whoa you met Denny Terrio. And then from that
to a parade of the most powerful and famous people
in the world because my father was such a magnet.
Speaker 1 (04:27):
That's a good recipe for politics, though, because you do
require a certain amount of polish and a certain amount
of grit for I think, you know what I mean.
You don't want to seem too precious and too privileged,
but you got it not seem too rough because you're
relating to so many different types of people.
Speaker 2 (04:45):
You don't scare people either.
Speaker 3 (04:48):
You are correct up until maybe six seven years ago,
where now I'm not really sure what the formula is.
There's true ession without tiders that what you would call polish.
They see as elitist affect. And I think everything's kind
(05:11):
of up in the air right now about what matters
and what doesn't and having to have a side. Everything
is for or against. You know, we're coming up.
Speaker 1 (05:20):
It is very Yeah, it's it's a zero sum game.
It's it's the craziest thing ever. It's it's it's the
upside down. But I and I think that there but
I think that there is a level now of people
just wanting authenticity, no matter what form it is.
Speaker 2 (05:35):
But they don't really know.
Speaker 1 (05:37):
You can't really know what authenticity is it's hard to
know because someone could just be a great actor.
Speaker 3 (05:43):
People can fake it till they make it. And also
you have all these haters telling you things about people
that you assume that what they're talking about, and they're
just making it up for advantage. I mean that's really
and I've seen this with you in your start them. Also,
you know that once you started to be an organic
avenue of your own success, people want your success. Uh
(06:07):
so they start to say things and create.
Speaker 4 (06:09):
Narratives and all this, and you've got bred how to
navigate what you choose to take on, which the downside
on as a as you're as who you are.
Speaker 3 (06:20):
For people who know you, you would take it on.
But now you have people telling you, but Bethany, you're
just going to give it energy and you're going to
give it attention. Now more they're going to know. And
you're like, yeah, but this is true. I didn't do that.
I'm not like that. This isn't what it's about. And
it's they're just going to write it up, both sides
(06:42):
of it, and you're gonna lose and it's not worth.
Speaker 2 (06:44):
It, and that totally.
Speaker 1 (06:46):
Maria Striver was on here and she said she had
to be of service. That was what was going on
in her family like that, that she just had to
be of service. And it sounds like that's what must
have been going on with you, was that, like you
just had to do something.
Speaker 3 (07:00):
I mean, the Shrivers are an extraordinarily advanced family in
terms of you know, you had Sergeant Shriver, you had
Eunice Kennedy, obviously Shriver, her brothers. They started so many
amazing things. I mean, they're kind of two generations deep
across board, whereas we're like two jobs deep.
Speaker 1 (07:21):
Yeah, but it's still the you know, I'm raising our
kids is different than the way we were raised. So
you were half privileged, half street now yeah, and now
you have kids though that are fully privileged. And it's hard,
you know, like I've said before, it's hard to get
on the first class and be like, oh you have
to walk like it's just not going to be the same.
Speaker 2 (07:41):
And it's a very hard dance.
Speaker 3 (07:42):
I'm sure it is. But of course, you know, look,
all pain is personal, and people only see what they
want to see, and there is a downside to the
upside for kids whose parents are somebody. I mean, people
see what they want to see. So there is a
price that goes along with fame and stardom, and you're
(08:03):
not allowed certain things that other people are. But of
course then you have benefits. Being in the news business
is a little bit of a tweener, you know what
I mean. You're not really a celebrity. You don't really
have a fan base. You know, it's a little different now.
It's changing because people are picking sides and they're becoming
commentators and stuff. But still with my kids, you know,
(08:25):
they had to deal with some shit that I really
wish that they hadn't had to. Yeah, and one of
my only regrets. I'm not a regret person. I really
don't believe it's a valuable thing. There are plenty of
things where I fucked up and I wish I hadn't
done that. I wish I hadn't gone that way. I mean,
it happens. It happened this morning, but I never knew. See,
(08:48):
when you're really focused on something and you know, your
aperture gets really tight. So for me, when my brother
was in trouble, you know what, you what were you
raised about? You're all family all the time. People are
gonna come after pop. They're gonna come after what's going on.
They're gonna be looking for you know that people are
gonna be looking at you. All you got is each other.
(09:08):
You're not gonna be like each other all the time,
and you're not going to like each other all the time,
but you're all you have.
Speaker 5 (09:13):
When shafick the Kardashians, well, yes, and starting on a
contemplated but you know that's how I was raised.
Speaker 3 (09:25):
So when Andrew was in the suit, obviously I was
gonna help him, not that I had to cover for him.
This isn't a mafia caper. I didn't do things that
were wrong. I didn't work the press. I didn't go
after his accusers, and nobody has to believe me. I
gave a long interview with the Attorney General. They did
their fact finding. They found nothing different than what I'm saying,
(09:48):
and the people who are doing that stuff for Andrew
in the politics game will now testify that go after you.
He was nothing but a pest. You worked the meeting he.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
Was, yeah, I'm of course I remember it, and we
all were sitting home stuck. So it was the worst
possible time it could happen, because you had to just
live in it. It was like people that got in
trouble during the pandemic, really like it was all we
could pay attention to, beside slow roasting chicken. And I
would say, these people didn't stand by you ultimately, so
(10:21):
you stood by your family. I guess you made a
good choice. What if you said to you know, fuck
you guys, I'm over here at CNN, and then they
left you for dead, like your family's not going to
leave you for dead, and you feel like you were
left by a family at CNN for dead.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
My family, I don't even know how to conceive of it.
You know, I've never had any one of my family
not be there before. I asked, right, what I mean
because I'm the youngest by so much, even though like
I'm old now, fifty three years old, but they see
things coming and dynamically you're they're there, like you don't
(10:56):
even ask, you know, when people say what was the
decision and helping your brother, I was like kind of
plum mixed by that. I was like, what process? What decision?
What do you mean I got trouble? You know? Right? No?
Speaker 1 (11:09):
No, no, it was your body and you were just
exactly I mean, I get it.
Speaker 2 (11:13):
There's a show.
Speaker 1 (11:14):
Oh, the show, the Morning Show? Did you see the
Morning show? That that?
Speaker 2 (11:18):
That's right?
Speaker 1 (11:18):
And and what's her name? It's Reese Waisman's character, and
her brother does something significantly worse. He storms the capitol
and she's not telling any she's not telling on him
as a journalist. And I was like, and Paul, my fiance,
was like her fucking brother. So, I mean, he said
it a thousand times to me, and he's, you know,
a pretty honorable guy, and he was like, I get it.
(11:41):
It's my father, my brother, Like, I get it. So
it was a hard situation.
Speaker 2 (11:45):
By the way, Oh what.
Speaker 3 (11:46):
I said all along, I never had problems with people.
I never had people until it became weaponized politically. I
said at the beginning, look, I'm not going to cover
my brother's allegations. It doesn't make any sense. You know,
I'm by it on them, So I'm just not going
to cover it, which everybody got set it on TV.
But you know, look, you know there is a price.
(12:09):
You know, you sign up for this when you're in
the media. There are rules and that doesn't mean that
they're righteous rules, but there are rules.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
And did you know the rules is are the handbook
that you know, and that you broke some rules or
that you pushed the line, like where is the line?
Should you've taken a hiatus, like taken six months off?
Speaker 2 (12:29):
What would you do differently?
Speaker 3 (12:30):
I offered to take time off more than once. I
offered to leave more than once. They didn't want me
to leave. I was the number one guy, right, and
you know, everybody was like stop. Everybody gets it. It's
your brother and you're not doing it on TV, and
you know you're helping him in a private capacity, and
people get that this is a one off. There's only
(12:50):
one of you and one of him. Isn't something we
see all the time, but we get it. And you know,
they had changed their own standards. Andrew on TV more
during the pandemic because they wanted him on and obviously
it was going to be easier for me to get
him on TV than you, right. You know what happened
was the rule is what goes up comes down, and
(13:15):
all that shine on Andrew as the love GOV and
all that other bullshit. They hated it in the media
because you know, they didn't want to love up my brother.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
You know, well they know they loved it for a while.
Speaker 1 (13:28):
When Ellen and Chelsea Handler, and I will be honest
with you. I thought he was basking in it a little.
I thought it was like a little month. I thought
it went too far, like every morning we're having I
thought it went too far. That was my honest, like
as a civilian's opinion. I was just like, I believe
in the wolves at the end of the bed. I
believe that when you feel like you're peaking the wave
(13:49):
is cresting, figure out what the fuck you're gonna do.
It's not trees grow high, they don't grow to the sky.
So I was going to ask you, I have this
wolves at the end of the bed thing, and do
you have that? Because if you were flying at the
top and your brother Dan gets in trouble and it doesn't,
didn't it feel swollen?
Speaker 3 (14:06):
Look. I used to talk to my brother on a
regular basis, telling him, enjoy it. Now, what goes up
comes down. You know they're gonna be coming for you.
It's just a question of time. And he wasn't one
of their favorites to begin with. I never contemplated it
would take the shape that it did. And for your metaphor,
I don't think the wolf is at the end of
the bed. The wolf is in the bed most of
(14:27):
the fight. You know, I wouldn't mind if it was
a wolf. You know, the wolf's gonna bite you, and
if you do the right things, you're gonna kill it.
And in this well, you can't they get to judge,
you know, what's right, what's wrong, what to put in whatnot,
and they're look. I think the American media is one
(14:50):
of the strongest pillars of our democracy, and it's certainly
better than anything I've seen anywhere else in the world.
But that doesn't mean it's perfect. It doesn't mean that
things can't come out wrong. And you know what's the
life lesson? The life lesson is forward forward. I cannot
change anything. I am such a wet blanket on so
(15:14):
much magical thinking. My wife runs a wellness business called Purist,
and she's very spiritual and she's very into this, and
she believes and energetic qualities of our assistance and all
that stuff. And to me, it's like, there's no faith,
there's no destiny, there's no luck. What happens in life
is probability and chance and what you do with it,
agree and you make things happen. It's not going to
(15:36):
happen anyway.
Speaker 2 (15:37):
No, I'm not saying that.
Speaker 1 (15:38):
I'm saying like, it's twenty twenty three and you're from
my generation, and I get more views on my social
media and make literally two and a half times the
money I made at my highest payday on Housewives. Now
I'm ahead of you in defecting from you know, the
mainstream television sphere. But I'm saying, when you put the
(15:59):
pieces together different way, the puzzle takes really nice shape.
That's what I'm saying.
Speaker 3 (16:03):
But you are different than I am. You are an
actual entity and commodity that people identify with certain values,
certain likes, certain interests, and certain appeal. And I'm not
surprised that you have been very successful, and I actually
(16:28):
am not even that imp I don't think that you're
anywhere near where you're going to be given what you
mean to so many different people in our society. I
am different. I am not because I can't be as
satisfying to people. I don't have a set value of
why do you watch this guy? I'm very frustrating for people,
(16:51):
you know, even on things that like, you know, people
want to be black and white, which is everything in
our society right now. You know, and I get so
much with digital media. Everybody threatens to kill you. You now,
you know, like death threats, you know, become such a
water down commodity. But it's like, stop showing the Palestinian injured.
(17:13):
We don't know that the video is real. Okay, stops
saying that Israel has an existential threat. Everything's so binary.
Speaker 1 (17:21):
Yeah, and you so first of all, you're so right
about it being so black and white. Now more than ever.
You can't have a conversation. You can't say I voted
for that person. It's your fucking moron because I went
to Harvard and you went to whatever. You're an idiot,
Like you can't be like, oh, why did you vote
for that part? I talk about this to Chris Wallace.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
You cannot.
Speaker 1 (17:40):
So people closet vote, they hide, they hide their opinions.
You cannot have a different opinion. And it's so much hate.
And it's supposed to be the time now where everyone's
supposed to be honest and open, and it's scary. So you,
as a person who has a party, you're on a side.
I'm sure you're flexible in certain matters. I mean, you're
of a brain and a mind, and a heart. But
how do you stick to your guns? Like in other words,
(18:02):
Meghan Kelly's over there sticking her guns, Tucker Cross and
sticking to his guns, Cannice Owens.
Speaker 2 (18:07):
They have big followings and they don't on the right.
Speaker 3 (18:10):
It's easy. The right is an animal. And as long
as you're savaging the left and feeding people's outrage and grievance,
we're addicted to grievance. But this job that she's doing now,
she's made for Tucker Carlson, all these guys who have
an agenda of motivating certain feelings and grievance. You don't
(18:32):
have that in the regular world. And like I, not
only do I not have a party, I think people
should leave the political parties. They are absolutely the root
of our problems. You never have them. They're not in
the constitution, they're not creatures of law. Even the Supreme
Court is said, they're just the function of tradition. They
shouldn't control our process and that's the only way we
(18:54):
can get back. A plurality of the country says they're independent,
they don't want to be in either of the parties.
That's our best.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
So I don't buy this about you.
Speaker 1 (19:14):
I think you're very very passionate, very smart, you're handsome,
you're charming, you're funny. So why so where you've landed
now at news Nation? What is this for you?
Speaker 3 (19:25):
Like?
Speaker 1 (19:25):
What do you and where do you have to temper
the chocolate? You can't fully express your opinion.
Speaker 3 (19:31):
No, it's not about that. It's that it's just not satisfying.
Like if you take an issue, you know, you got
to have like this determined side where everybody who doesn't
believe what you believe is toxic and that's what sells.
That's what people are looking for, this outrage machine. Now
will it stay like this? Yeah? Kind of It's always
(19:53):
been this way. We just have more magnification of minority
voices and opinions through social media than we used to have,
and we're gonna have to balance that out with reach
versus relevancy and value. You know, the marketplace will find
its way. But you know, I'm not saying that I
don't know how to communicate. It's that left is mad
with me right now. I barely get Democrats on my show.
(20:16):
Why well, either they're pissed and Andrew, or they're pissed
at me by extension, or they're pissed because I have
too many people who are on the right on and
I don't believe. And I keep saying that the parties suck,
and they're like, yeah, okay, the parties are imperfect, but
this is our system and the right is so much worse. Chris,
(20:38):
that you're creating a false equivalency.
Speaker 1 (20:41):
Why don't you just get a little unhinged like this,
Like just be not so polished, not so perfect, not
so organized. It just be a little off the fucking grid,
like be a little I've seen, but it's always a
little more newsy, more like the traditional newsy, more than this.
Speaker 2 (20:58):
Well, I would like to see you fully on.
Speaker 3 (21:01):
I'm not, first of all, I'm not an unhinted person.
It doesn't work for me, you know. I people think
they're giving me a compliment. They say, man, Bethany, even
though this isn't your personality, Bethany was I'm coming at
you man, And you just was sitting there looking you
almost had like a little bit of a smile on
(21:21):
your face. How do you do that? It's very simple. One.
When you've been doing this as long as I have,
you understand that someone says the moment that I say oh, Bethany,
I don't agree with you about which way we're going
to take this product. You know you're an idiot. I'm
an idiot as soon as you start talking about you personally, obviously,
(21:46):
I don't have the ammunition on the argument anymore. Right,
that's one. As a guy who has done nothing but
study self defense and different fighting techniques for so many years,
I don't take talk as the kind of provocation that
most people do. When someone starts insulting me. In my mindset,
(22:08):
how I am as a person, like my personality is
as long as we're talking, there's no there's no threat here.
You say whatever you want to say about me. I
return the fire. But it's not because I'm some nice guy.
It's that it's that you know, well, if we're going
to have a real problem, then you're not gonna talk.
You're gonna try to hurt me. Not you as a woman,
(22:29):
because no, no, no, I know. But when a guy
is saying mean things, say your mean things. We're still talking.
Keep talking. I think it makes you look bad, But
say whatever you want to say. Now, threaten my kids,
put your hand on me. We have a very situation
and I'm in the I'm in the hurt business. Once
we do that, and that makes you very uncivilized. And
(22:51):
I'm going to get in trouble. And I've gotten in
trouble in the past, and I get it. But I'm
not asking for people's vote, and I'm not a leader.
But it's very easy easy for me to say civilized
people are coming on to attack a position that I
don't even hold.
Speaker 1 (23:06):
Well, do you sometimes enjoy? I mean, first of all,
you're unflappable, is what you're describing. But when when someone
says to me, I was just talking about this yesterday,
someone on TikTok, it could be anything or Instagram or somewhere.
Speaker 2 (23:16):
Oh she wow, she.
Speaker 1 (23:18):
Looks old, I'm like, I am old, Like I don't
mind an insult, like I kind of absorb it and
turn it into I'll turn chicken shit into chicken salad
every day. I will, and I'll slap back, not in
a way where I'm fighting with someone in like Twitter
or something, but where I'll just disarm I beg someone
who cares. They'll say, I, like, I think you care
(23:38):
because you're here, Like you could go somewhere else, Like
I kind of I don't want to say I enjoy it,
but it means there's a pulse out there, if that
makes any sense. Like I'm like, okay, I'm getting you.
You're alive out there, all right. We're not agreeing with
everything I say, but okay.
Speaker 3 (23:50):
You're not a you know, you're not someone who's gonna
let somebody get away with things either. But there is
a comfort when someone's saying you don't look good. You
do look good, and you know you have confidence in that.
So it's one thing. What happens to me is it's
not you don't look good. It's more that I am
(24:17):
being placed as part of a problem in society, anti American,
anti this, anti that, part of this deep state, all
this shit that is very hard to dispel. I mean,
the prayer with this place, with News Nation is that
they really seem to this point to be on the
(24:37):
same page with Listen, I'm talking to regular people in
a regular way. You want to talk words and concepts
and history whatever. It's all I am as a student
of this. I study everything all the time. This is
my hobby, it's my vocation and my advocation. But that's
not what I do on the show.
Speaker 1 (24:57):
Are you defined more by being pigeonholed into Democratic principles,
or by your brothers by protecting your brother, covering for
your brother.
Speaker 2 (25:08):
What's defining you?
Speaker 1 (25:10):
What do people in your community think, what a former
colleagues think. You see somebody in the city at a restaurant,
what do people think.
Speaker 3 (25:17):
My community where we live out in East Hampton, which
is actually a pretty trumpy place, has been so good
to me when they when I was really in the
barrel and the paparazzi were coming after me and everybody's
they were very protective, even guys who don't like you know,
once they know me, they understand that I don't have politics.
(25:38):
I really don't. I mean people, do I back Democrats
absolutely if they name Cuomo, you know what I mean.
If my brother's running for he's the guy I think
you should vote for him. Why my brother, that's why,
and I love him and I believe he's the best.
But other Democrats. No, the party doesn't resemble anything like
what my father's party was. And do I vote Democrat? Yeah, occasionally.
(26:03):
I'm not registered this one unless Andrew's running, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:06):
And then people more mad at you for being for
thinking that you're a Democrat or for thinking that you're
a Cuomo.
Speaker 3 (26:13):
Anti Trump, deep state, mainstream media whatever that means, Andrew
is like at the bottom except for the media. For
the media all.
Speaker 1 (26:27):
About that because they need a reason, they need to
put it put, They need to skate something to put.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
On the rule and what The only thing that bothers
me about it is and again, because you know, you
can't fix things. You can only fix forward. You can't
fix in the past. Time doesn't work like that. But
the idea one. It pisses me off that all these
people in the media tell me what happened with me
and my job was wrong. Oh now you want to
(26:53):
say that, But that bothers me a little bit, but
I get it. That's how people become conciliatory. The other
thing that bothers me is so you don't think that
people in the media talk to and advised politicians. That's
that's what you want people to believe that you, oh
my god, never called up or had a relationship with
(27:16):
a politician where you gave them advice. Wo when're in trouble,
You've never said to a politician, oh man, this is
playing bad. You better watch. You don't think there are
reporters who came.
Speaker 2 (27:29):
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
It's the one what comes to mind to me is
like a Hannity or O'Reilly, Like that's who I think of,
like calling up.
Speaker 3 (27:35):
They're not journalists. I'm talking about the same guys and
women who have the high ground okay, you know, like
they're not on the phone if they can get access.
And and the politicians I grew up in this be
like I watched this happen with and where they would
talk to legendary journalists Residentacalarry Jack Newfield, I mean like
(27:57):
the real guys and they'd marry him a rory and
where they'd be like, so why don't you like this position?
What's your problem with that? And they'd be like, well,
here's a problem with this is the crime rate is
up here and the people sixty two percent said they
want the death penalty, and you keep yelling about no
death penalty means going to beat you. Is that journalism?
Speaker 2 (28:16):
Wow?
Speaker 3 (28:17):
Or other advice about his position on the death penalty.
Speaker 1 (28:20):
Yeah, I didn't think about how you grew up and like,
you know, that's so crazy. That's I didn't think about
what you don't do that.
Speaker 3 (28:27):
Kind of thing. That's the monstrably false. So there's a
little bit of a hypocrisy. But look, I really I
talk about it because it's over And.
Speaker 2 (28:35):
Are you writing a book on this whole?
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Like you need to write a book called not politically Speaking,
because you're talking about a lot about it not being political.
I think you should be like, are you writing a
book on this anymore?
Speaker 3 (28:47):
When you look at what's happening and what people are
fighting about at the highest levels, the highest levels. We
just had a US senator decide he's not going to
run and he can't even decide if he wants to
run for president. Why because you don't know where the
safe space is. And you know, mister Rogers taught us
when we were growing up, look for the helpful people.
(29:09):
Who are fucking helpful people. Everybody's gonna hurt, seems these days.
One minute that your friend, the next minute they're coming
after you. And I get it. And that's why I
believe that the remedy is regularity. Just think about the
rest of your life. Because I just came to my
parent teacher conferences, Christina stayed behind. That's real life. Sitting down.
(29:31):
Wait what a minute, wait what he didn't turn in?
Speaker 1 (29:33):
What I saw this right, you're saying, we spent all
this time obsessing over things that don't come into play
in our lives most of the time.
Speaker 2 (29:42):
Yeah what what? Now?
Speaker 1 (29:45):
What does your wife think about all this? You guys
must have been through a roller coaster. You definitely have
been through a crazy time. Your wife, dynamic your family?
Does your brother feel guilty?
Speaker 2 (29:54):
Like?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
What's the dynamics swirling with everybody? There's gotta be some
resentment or some odjita with everybody?
Speaker 3 (30:01):
There was, you know, twenty plus years of marriage, three kids,
thirteen to twenty. There's plenty of them in and odgy to
go around at. Look, there is no question. And I
am trying, you know, to find ways to make this
(30:24):
something other than just what it is. But this is natural.
They got an unnatural life and I made it worse.
Why because I dragged them into something that I wasn't
even aware. I did not see this storm coming. I
knew Andrew had trouble as soon as there was a
(30:45):
handful of allegations in the Democratic Party. Allegations are enough.
I knew he had trouble.
Speaker 1 (30:51):
I was telling you're saying you dragged your family, But
does he feel he dragged you? And your family.
Speaker 3 (30:56):
Okay, Andrew feels tremendous skill little brother. All he wants
is good things for me. He taught me how to
ride a bike. He taught me how to play football.
You know, my father was taking care of you guys.
You know, he was in service pretty much my whole life,
and he was obsessed with that. As you know, first
generation born in this country. He believed that he owed
(31:16):
it to America to do whatever he could, especially in
New York. Andrew taught me everything. All of my interests
in hobbies I learned from my brother.
Speaker 6 (31:25):
Wow.
Speaker 3 (31:26):
Oh, I take care of old cars. Andrew's a master mechanic.
I fish. I'm much better at it than Andrew, but
I whatever I do. All the fighting, Andrew was an
amazing fighter. He's a great boxer. I don't box, but
I mean, you know, so the idea that i'd be
there for him, he'd be there for me, I've never
considered any other option. Doesn't mean we get along all
(31:47):
the time. Doesn't mean that he doesn't want to crack
my head like an egg every once in a while.
But you know he does. He feel guilty about it. Sure,
one hundred levels. He had the mandate of the people
of New York to do a job that he had
to leave because of this, and it haunts him, and
it haunts him that everybody had to deal with it,
(32:08):
including my wife and kids and his kids, young empowered women.
This was tough, and you know, you can't pretend it
to happen. You can't try to make it something that
it wasn't. You've got to see it for what it was.
And the most important part of what it was is
(32:28):
in the past. Is there a lesson for next time?
Not really, because when's the next time that my person
and I'm getting to this catacausm where I got to
make a decision about whether or not to watch and
burn or what you know. So that's not so helpful,
that's not so instructive. I do take a lot of solace,
as most of us should, if we're if we work
on ourselves, if we have that insecurity to drive us
(32:51):
through that, which I certainly do where I'm like, oh shit,
I shouldn't do that again. You know. Let me try
this a different way. Let me try to work on this.
Let me try to work on this in therapy. Let
me try to work on this. Uh with a life coach.
Speaker 1 (33:04):
Working on yourself right, you stick stick of like workshopping
the spirituality and bs of it. You just want to
like this is now, what are we doing?
Speaker 3 (33:11):
The spirituality is not so much my thing. Philosophy is
my thing. I'm fine with spirituality. Just let me see
how you use it, don't put it on me. I
don't want conversations about why you're so right about what
you believe. So I work on myself all the time.
Why we'll plenty to do, That's why. And I am
(33:34):
racked with uh, negative emotions about the whole situation. I mean,
I lost a tremendous amount.
Speaker 2 (33:44):
I'm sorry, you're raw.
Speaker 3 (33:49):
Not raw. I'm just realistic, you know. And I'm flawed
and I don't believe in fair. My therapist says it's
the only four letter word. Look. Ultimately, everybody figures out
what their strengths are. I have two real strengths. Okay,
one's personal, one's professional. My personal strength is I have
an amazing ability, a gift to draw better people than
(34:14):
I am to me, my friends and the people in
my life. Like last night, I just did a talk
with Chuck d from public enemies and friends of mine
for a long time, I have all these mentors in
my life who are like just a little ahead of
me in life, some of them behind. On the on
the fight side, a lot of the guys are younger,
even though my main coach is in the sixties, and
(34:36):
they're better than me at whatever it is that connects us.
They're better and they be better. They're better fathers, they're
better husbands, they're better fighters, they're you know, they're they're
better at these things. And professionally, my ability is to interpret.
I don't come up with the idea. I don't come
(34:56):
up with the position. I have an ability, I think
through training, disposition, and experience where I can take things
that you say about whatever it is that you're relevant
on in that moment and then say to people who
don't know what the way you do. Look, here's what
she meant, okay, or here's why this matters and this
(35:19):
is not what you're being told, or you need to
listen to this part more.
Speaker 2 (35:23):
That's what I'm able to do, crystallizing it.
Speaker 3 (35:26):
And I think that there is a need for that
right now, not Herey Biden shouldn't be president. There's plenty
of people to do that, plenty of people. For me,
it's what do you need? What do you need? What
matters to you? You know, the reason you have shitty
(35:47):
candidates is because you have a shitty process that one
squeezes people in these very narrow lanes to get to power,
and nobody wants to get it best and he doesn't
want to run for office and have people dig into it.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
That's an interesting concept too. Right when we were kids,
it was like you could be president in it. I
actually think because of all the relief work, everyone's always
like run for president. I'm like, what, I don't even
want to like work with the government on relief work.
I don't want to have to answer to anybody and
be part of any of that.
Speaker 2 (36:21):
That sounds like a disaster. I can't imagine wanting that job.
Speaker 3 (36:26):
Eve. It's the salvation too, because we've become too top
heavy and in our local Community's another thing that regular
people know. Okay, So like Christina, because you know, Christina
is the virtue one, Like you know, I hate to
do stereotypes, but we have them for a reason, right,
Christina is the melding of this and this, you know
what I mean, and all this, you know, everything's.
Speaker 2 (36:49):
A nail to me and I was listening.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
He did heart and head and then she's he's I'm sorry,
she's the heart and the head and he's the fist.
Speaker 3 (36:57):
Yeah, and you know, intellectual, I know a lot, but
in terms of behavior, dynamics and relationships, I'm the warrior,
I'm the protector.
Speaker 2 (37:09):
And what does that make you? Are you emotionally intelligent?
Speaker 3 (37:12):
I am. I work on it all the time. I
have some gifts. I was raised by women. I have three,
six older than me, and of course my mother who's
still with us, And I lived with my grandparents for years,
and my grandfather was senile, so my grandmother was really
you know. I used to have to follow my grandfather around.
(37:35):
He like walk away and beautiful men grosser and so
I had a lot of alpha women strong and that
wasn't a thing then. It was just like the way
you were supposed to be.
Speaker 6 (37:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (38:01):
I want to talk about Christina though, like, what how
do you have a twenty year marriage? I don't know
if it's thriving. I know it's surviving because I mean,
you got through what you got through and you're together.
But I've only the longest relationship I've ever been in
is five years. I know, that I say that like embarrassed,
you know, like I like, like, I've never said that
to anybody before out loud, because I don't, you know,
(38:23):
want people to realize it's true.
Speaker 2 (38:25):
But it's true.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
And so I always am. I always struggle between the
fairy tale and the reality and the struggle and the
thriving and the surviving and a relationship when I look
at other people's relationships, because I know people have problems
and struggle and I kind of want to hear about
your relationship a little bit.
Speaker 3 (38:44):
Any any adult knows that one a relationship is work
more than it is anything else. You can embody it
in an emotional principle like love, but what what is?
What is love? Love? In this context is somebody else's
needs and wants matter as much to you as your own.
(39:06):
It's too easy today. I'd take a bullet for you. Yeah, yeah,
I know. Would you give me the last an espresso pod? Yes?
So that you know it's about the context and people pose, okay,
they want you to think good things about them. You
wander about your marriage about this, and you know, when
(39:30):
you're examined as much as we are, you wind up
a lot of letting a lot of that shit go.
You know, well, why are you still married? Well, because
that's the sum total of our existence. What does that mean? Well,
that's what we see in our families. You know, there
have been some marriages that haven't worked. It's nothing wrong
with that. Marriages isn't a natural condition. This is construct
(39:56):
that was developed for good and bad reasons over different
cultural aeriots. But the kids matter more, you know, and
they need us, and there's that, Uh, it's hard. There's
an acceptance of hard much more on her part. It
is work and the upside of.
Speaker 1 (40:17):
Well, then she has to accept that it's going to
be hard because you were saying that it's hard to
be in a relationship with you or your life that
you chose for you.
Speaker 3 (40:23):
To harder to be in a relationship with me than
it is to be in a relationship with her.
Speaker 2 (40:28):
That's no, that's exactly my situation. I'm you.
Speaker 1 (40:32):
Yeah, shocking, but yeah, i'm you.
Speaker 3 (40:35):
You are not me. Do you understand, Like.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
No, in the dynamic, I'm you, it's not at dragon,
you know, I'm like having a believe in Dragon. I'm
like i am I'm like having a pet porcupine. Okay,
because anything that's I don't want anyone to ever like
tell me what to do, put me in like I
(40:58):
has to. I just you could say to me, we're
having turkey for lunch, and I'm like why, Like, I
just don't. I like to be free as a person.
Like so it's funny. I'm very prickly about just nothing.
I only sweat small stuff. The big stuff is no problem.
I don't care about any of the big stuff. It's
the tiny stuff that really I'm problematic about.
Speaker 3 (41:18):
Relationships. It's also about like, you know, look, there is
no one size fits all. I love reading books on
relationships because it's so it's such an exaggerated idea that
there's something that works for everybody. It's like that, and
(41:41):
every situation is different. And well, this marriage works because
they don't live in the same state. And this marriage
works because this is all the people in there chosen
ethnicity or this is all they do is this. And
this works because there's a codependency, you know. And this
works because they just are both into the same thing.
They're obsessed. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
Now, yeah, there's a guy that we buy what we
bought watches from before, this guy and you know, he's
he's a watch he sells watches, so he's like half
an asshole. But I'll say, gee, I'll say, I'm not
gonna say his name. He's an asshole. And Paul said
to me, yeah, but he's our asshole. So like sometimes
I look upon, I'm like, you're an asshole, but but
he's my asshole.
Speaker 2 (42:22):
So it's sort of like that, you know what I mean, accommendation.
Speaker 3 (42:26):
Look, here's the problem with the dynamic, and this is
the struggle, right, is that it's inherently selfish. Love is selfish.
I tell my daughters all the time, be selfish and
love whatever you want. You don't do anything for some
guy you're not pretty because he says you're pretty, all right,
(42:47):
you want to have him by the face and kiss him.
You know, the whole shotgun and a shovel thing. I
got over that, you know, as long as it's on you,
and this is what you want, the knock yourself out
your choice? Fine, but but what do we see? We
see that very often people are making choices because they
(43:09):
think those are the right choices to make. And this
is an inherently selfish dynamic for us. You and I
start fooling around the moment I start doing something that
doesn't work for you. Gone. It could be a little
I told this cat, he texts me this way one
(43:30):
more time. He's a ghost. I do it again. Damn.
When you're married, people no longer have that cautionary idea
about best behavior. It's like, especially once you have kids together,
it's like, where are you going? You know what I mean,
You're gonna and those things start to not matter anymore.
(43:53):
It's like, does this all my friends call me mo?
There's most still texture like that be Yeah, I don't
give a shit anymore. You know what I care about
is whether or not the dog throw up last night,
you know what I mean. It's like, so you know,
there's a French expression that a guy used at my wedding,
which I thought was like the worst thing he could
have ever said, But I've learned to appreciate it over
the years. He said in French it's called les petite more.
(44:19):
I don't speak French little deaths, And he said that
love is a series of tiny deaths. And I was like,
in my wedding day, but it is the self has
to die. Now. I know there's a million psychologists out
there who going to tell me in therapists that I'm
bullshit and you got to live within your own truth
and you must be growing. Hasn't been my experience, my experiences,
(44:42):
get over yourself. All right, Yeah she did that. Yeah
he did that. Yeah that was fucked up? Now what right?
You know? Normanlear gave me great life advice when I
was in the barrel. There are only two questions you
have to ask. He was listening to me for like
ten minutes. Talk to somebody, and he said, uh, so
(45:03):
what now what?
Speaker 2 (45:06):
Oh there's a book. Yeah that's yeah, so what now?
Speaker 3 (45:11):
So hard to practice, but it's like, okay, yeah, b
did that. That's what happened, and it hurt. Now what?
Speaker 1 (45:20):
Doctor Amador wrote a book called I'm right, You're wrong?
Speaker 3 (45:23):
Now what?
Speaker 2 (45:24):
I love it. It's just like the same thing now
what It's good?
Speaker 6 (45:26):
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (45:27):
So what about intimacy though? How do you how important
is intimacy? How does it sustain? After twenty years? And
I'm not singling you out of asked a lot of
people about this, like what you know, how important is it?
Speaker 3 (45:39):
It's all about needs and wants. It's all about needs
and wants, and everybody's different.
Speaker 2 (45:46):
Paul says, needs and wants to and.
Speaker 3 (45:48):
Then age matters. Okay, women fifty five, although we are
there's always like some new understanding. My wife's not here.
I'm saying, like, you get into that range where bodies
are changing, you know what what what we crave starts
to change? Right the guys, I was like, oh, you know,
so you know there are all these different factors that
(46:10):
go into it. But again it's not one size fits all.
You can have where they fuck like rabbits, you know,
I have they been married forever, they have like I
always having sex. I've never and I thought they were
like kidding me, they're making it up, but then I'm
making up. Then I have other ones that like, you know,
they don't even know what they look like naked anymore.
You know, it's right there is you don't know, and
(46:31):
I don't can't tell you that this couple it doesn't
mean as much to me as this couple, or that
I don't appreciate what they're about as much, or that
they don't seem to love each other as much. It's
just different. Everybody's got different and we love to judge them.
We love to judge them, and we love when relationships fail,
you know, like this Jada Pinkett Smith's ship. Oh my god,
(46:54):
I what I don't understand? And this is I'm a journalist,
I'm on cable TV. Both things. I have zero interest
in people's love lives, even though that's not what marriage is.
But unless it's instructive of something that applies almost.
Speaker 2 (47:13):
Universally, right, like this takeaway for you?
Speaker 3 (47:16):
Right?
Speaker 1 (47:16):
Why is everybody lifting the veil now in a different
like Megan and Harry veil lifted.
Speaker 2 (47:22):
Let's show it.
Speaker 1 (47:22):
All Victoria Beckham and David Beckham like they're very wealthy, successful,
way lift the veil?
Speaker 2 (47:27):
He cheated?
Speaker 1 (47:28):
This happened like Will Smith like a list actor, like
lifting the veil? Why is everybody want like everybody know everything?
You don't want to want to know everything? To rip
the example.
Speaker 3 (47:41):
Culture dominates, especially with celebrities. Everybody you just picked is
a celebrity, and people who crave attention and following. We
are addicted to grievance. We went through a phase where
you can lift the veil as long as it was
a funk of you going to rehab, you know, and
(48:02):
you getting on that thing. That was That phase is
over now it's just who's more fucked up, what's the
next fucked up thing?
Speaker 1 (48:12):
But it's not good for business because I think they're
doing it for followers, and like Victoria Beckham is selling
clothes the way that Kim does online, and maybe it's
got to be only about money. But like I don't
think it's good for Will's business. Maybe it's good for hers.
It's not good for business at all.
Speaker 2 (48:26):
Is it?
Speaker 3 (48:27):
My ep Dusty, who have known for thirty years, and
my our oldest who's a twenty year old girl, and
even my wife will all tell me the same thing.
I look at Kardashian and I say, I remember when
that video came out. I remember how that video was
(48:50):
about ray J being endowed in a way that you
do not normally see like Lee that's right side act
was who he was having sex with? Who? And I
remember this. I remember that this point of fast, I
didn't know who she was. Nobody did, and it was
is she like sleeping through this right now? With this
(49:13):
you know this guy, the prowess that this guy was
bringing there in the situation, How is she sleeping through this?
How is she even barely aware? And it was almost
like a joke, and then it blew up and I'll say, look,
you gotta respect the success. I respect success, but I
also believe. So what they'll correct me on is, no,
(49:36):
that's all you see. You got stuck there that you
see just that we don't see that. We see the
next eight moves that made her who we're interested in watching.
Then you only remember that because you're an old man
and you're not into any of the stuff about them,
because you don't watch any reality TV.
Speaker 2 (49:54):
Got it?
Speaker 3 (49:54):
You understand how she plays within the sisters dynamic and
the male and the babies and the landing.
Speaker 2 (50:01):
And the products and the chess. There's a lot of
chess moves there.
Speaker 3 (50:05):
Understand all of that.
Speaker 2 (50:06):
You and like you, she comes from a powerful matriarch.
Speaker 1 (50:10):
You come from a powerful patriarch, like she's like the
mom is very very you know, the Joseph Kennedy of
the situation.
Speaker 3 (50:17):
So I used to be very like and I'm sure
I've said publicly, I was like, you know, when you
have the Kardashians, like, you know, your billionaires and the
people everyone's looking up to, you know, you got to
you gotta take a you got to stop and think. Well,
now that I have stopped and thought, because one of
the gifts, although I don't recommend it. Is when you
get shit canned and you're sitting on your ass and
(50:38):
your toxic and you got a year or so, do
you you got a lot of choices about how to
spend that time. And once I really went in on
myself about I got to figure some shit out. I
got to figure out how to get out of this
hole and not get a job. I knew i'd get
a job. I'm good at what I do, but I
(50:59):
I you know, I could practice law, I could do
all kinds of stuff. But the it was knowing I
got to figure out, like what matters to me? Because
this was so unsettling that I couldn't see myself ever
going back into the media. When it happened, I was like,
now it's just too fucked up. Oh yeah, And I
was like, what am I about? What do I care about?
(51:20):
Why do I care about it? Why do I why?
Why are these things fucked up about me? And what
have I not been listening to? And I was talking
to my therapist and he's like, all right, good, So
if you're willing, if you're ready to listen, I'll start
telling you the same things I've been telling you for
the last ten years and whether it was you know
what was the lesson that's worth it because you know,
(51:41):
my story itself gets kind of tedious? Is The word
forward is obviously directional, right, but it's also suggestive of
an intentionality. If you can inculcate who concepts into your
life on a daily basis, this is straight up pragmatism. Okay,
(52:03):
this requires no belief in anything bigger than yourself and
your own reasoned choice. And they both start with the
same three letters, but for different reasons, forgive and forward.
If you can live those two ideas, you will absolutely
(52:27):
no matter what you're dealing with. You've got terminal illness,
you've got financial problems that are almost irreconcilable. You've got
some asshole in your life that you don't know how
to get rid of without a cost, and you a
lot of money. You've got kids that you're worried about
or they're worried about you. You have addiction, whatever it is,
those mechanisms of forgiving yourself, because that's why we don't
(52:52):
get better. The reason that I don't get better at
things is because I don't believe I deserve to. I
make the same fucking mistakes and poor choices in relationships. Whatever.
The efficient buddy could be, my wife could be somebody.
Just why because I'll put myself into the same situations
because I don't believe I deserve anything better. I haven't
(53:14):
really processed why I would do this and what I'm
getting out of it or not getting out of it,
and what I'm giving up. I don't do that because
I'm a self loather. But that's a cheap it's easy.
You self loather. Oh you know I'm a self loather,
So I'm i'm.
Speaker 1 (53:29):
Now because then you limit yourself by categorizing yourself with that.
It pushes you down, it limits you.
Speaker 3 (53:34):
Who structure Now, that's nature nurture. Also, I was raped
self loath. Uh. And my brother is a self loather. Uh.
He's also a genius, so he has like an offset
of intellectualism with it. But it's I see it in
myself like you and I will be I don't working
out whatever, it's something something simple, and you'll be like,
(53:58):
you know, you'll do whatever you do, and I'll be like,
look at you feeling good about that. That ain't shit.
I can do twice what you just did, and you're like, yeah,
but what I did was good for me. No, I'm
the standard. If you're not better than me, you suck.
Now what is that? That's not healthy? Because why am
(54:19):
I putting myself in a position of such low esteem?
Why would you believe that whatever you are is the
absolute minimum standard of anything? Why would you do that
to yourself? Well, you know life is so hard, failure
and setbacks and disappointment is so guaranteed. Why would you
(54:43):
do anything to short yourself on upside? Because I can't forgive,
and I struggle with.
Speaker 2 (54:51):
I am better with all I think, then I think.
Speaker 1 (54:53):
I spoke to Rob Low about when he was twenty
six what happened, And it wasn't even he said his
low wasn't even w and during at the convention he
said it was like doing the Academy Awards and doing
the snow white bit. But anyway, he said, like he
was intentionally crashing himself into a brick wall. He needed
to like, so this could be your moment of your life,
(55:14):
your brick wall that you some people. Nobody gets out
without paying the bill, so.
Speaker 2 (55:20):
You're riding high. You're good.
Speaker 1 (55:21):
Look, nobody gets out without paying the bill, so this
you're paying the bill.
Speaker 3 (55:25):
But here's the thing. Look, I believe that the rent
is do every day and the problems are the same,
The challenges are the same. The manifestations change, but the
rules remain the same. Forgiveness is the only way.
Speaker 1 (55:43):
So who do you forgive? And how do you move forward?
You're moving forward, You're forgiving. Who do you have to forgive?
Speaker 2 (55:48):
Do you forgive? CNN? Do you watch it?
Speaker 1 (55:49):
You forgive Jeffice, Jeff Zucker Do you still hold anger?
Speaker 6 (55:53):
Like?
Speaker 2 (55:53):
What's what's the arc
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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