March 16, 2021 • 38 mins
On trusting your gut and the cult fitness craze.
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Everyone has a new sort of approach to an attitude
towards fitness now because people are zooming at home and
I was fain it's okay. So a couple of years ago,
or maybe it was like five years ago, designer fitness started, okay,
So this is when it became like this bespoke curated
(00:33):
fitness experience. So how I grew up and first understood
fitness and Jim's was it was. It was those like
sweaty gyms of windows on the second floor of Boston
or New York City buildings, and you dreaded it. And
January one, you got a membership and leg warmers and
hot pink uh like tights and some people wore like
(00:58):
thombs up their ass, but body suits and everybody went
more your Reebok high tops and scrunches, and you dreaded it.
Maybe it was probably like thirty dollars a month or something,
and then you never went back and then tried to
fight them forever to get out of the mafia. That
was that monthly payment, and that was like I feel
like it was like Crunch New York Sports Club twenty
(01:22):
four hour fitness, which is so crazy, but anyway, that
was what it was for me, And then you found
the StairMaster and you just hated it. But like some
people went there to flirt and maybe you could afford
a trainer. And then it became a little more fancy
in New York City and they had the Reebok Club
and the New and the Vertical Club was was before
the Reebok Club, and that was an Upper East Side
(01:44):
place where like Jewish New York City yuppies could afford
I guess a hundred and fifteen dollars a month to
work out, which is was so much money to me
that it could never ever happen in years later. Probably
finagle or found a way to get a disc count
of membership or I don't know. These are these places
that had steam rooms and saunas, and I guess you
(02:04):
could bring your clothes and pay for the extra laundry
service where the'd wash your work at close at being
your locker. I never could afford that or paid for that,
but I loved it, and my reward was going into
that steam room. Okay. So then the next version of
fitness evolved into the step craze. Like step you do
step aerobics in the classes and you do like grapevine
(02:26):
aerobics in the classes. And then it evolved into spinning.
And that started for me in l A at the
Spectrum Club, which was part of Sports Club l A.
And there were these spinning classes and they were just
like normal gym memberships, and people would be in the
front and excited and the music was great and you
were sweating and it was efficient and it was forty minutes.
And Barry's boot Camp came alive then, and it was
(02:48):
a certain group and one class that everyone would sweat
on top of each other and do the treadmill for
half the class and torture yourself for like situps and
all this other stuff. Then years later, I remember talking
to a friend in New York and she said, I
started soul Cycle and I said, okay, I said, what
is that? Stually, Well, it's a bicycle class. You go
on this journey. It's a spiritual fitness journey. And I
(03:10):
was like, so it's spinning. No, it's not spinning. It's
not spinning. I'm like, well, it's a bicycle attached to
the floor and they're playing music for forty five minutes. Yes,
but it's a different experience, like you're on a journey,
people wearing bandanas, this is your life. I'm like, it's spinning,
and spinning was invented by Johnny G years ago, and
other people would call it like rev cycle or other
things because they didn't have the trademark for what it
(03:31):
was called, so you can't really call it spinning. I
think Johnny G owned spinning, but I guess didn't monetize
or market in the right way. So soul cycle comes
in and I'm like, Okay, if it's a different, amazing
religious experience that you're saying is different for your body,
and it's not spinning, I want to go to a class.
So years ago I went to a class. I like
it spin it, it's spinning. It's spinning. And you know,
(03:51):
if there was a place in the Hampton zone Hampton
and it was everyone's it's different, it's a journey, okay.
So I thought it was spinning. To me, it was spinning, okay.
So then it evolved into a cult where all of
these women and gay men and wealthy sort of Hampton's
type hedge funding mogul type private equity kind of men
(04:14):
would go and we're obsessed. And there were these teachers
that were like these religious cult leaders that like they
could only go to their class and they were wait lists.
But then you wanted to be in the front of
the room and that would cost like seventy five dollars,
And I'm like, what the funk is going up? People
are paying seventy five dollars to go to a gym
(04:35):
class for one class to sit in the front row.
I used to hide in the back row because you
don't want to be seen and you just don't want
to be like you don't want to be like at work,
like working. But this the teachers, this is how they
speak to you, and this is just its soul. Second,
we'll get on too, fly Will and the whole other
world of bespoke fitness. But the teachers, this is your life.
(04:57):
Your life, everything you've ever everything that's ever happened you
in your life, is right now. This is who you are.
This is the moment, and this defines who you are.
I'm like, no, it fucking doesn't. I'm attached to a
bicycle on the floor, sweating, just trying to get the
funk out of here. This is your moment. For the
every fiber of your being is determined by how you
(05:17):
finished this class. I'm like, I don't think it is.
I'm gonna leave this class. I only have thirty minutes.
I have to go get my eyebrows wax, Like what
do you mean? So anyway, at the came to these
people that felt like they were going to church, like
religious church every week by wearing like massive diamonds, showing
off their cars and their their belongings, and paying seventy
five dollars to sit in the front row. And if
(05:38):
you were really popular, you would sit in the front
row on the thing, like on the stage with the teacher.
And now you're fucking teaching a class. So now I'm sorry,
I'm paying seventy five dollars to sit in the front
be seen and half teach the class. I want to
be paid for that. Incidentally, I did go to the
Shwin School of Spinning, and somewhere in one of my
(05:59):
like photo boxes, I am a certified spin instructor. Ladies
and gentlemen, I am. So I could go up there
and leave my own cult religion. But anyway that you know,
i'd like to say, I digress. Then came bespoke model classes,
where it was model fit and models taught it and
models went to it, and people who are sized four
(06:19):
feel like fats. So is for being next to models
eaching model classes. And then came dancer classes where other
people who are sized too felt fat, and then we're
like the other like derivative dancer classes in Soho and
rebeca where you have to be rich hand have a
net worth of ten million dollars to go to that
class or you're a fucking loser, like it's for skinny
(06:41):
nose job hair and you have to have a net
worth of ten million dollars. You have to have a
your hair has to be parted down the middle, and
you have to drive a g wagon or arrange rover
and that's what you have to do to get into
that class. And if you don't keep up with a
hundred and fifty mile an hour dance routine mean that
only someone who is in Moulan a Rouge could do,
(07:03):
then you're like snub debt. And this is one of
those classes where the teacher doesn't pay attention to anybody
because if you don't fucking know the moves and you
don't belong. So that's the exclusive fitness chapter, which was
also probably and then the boxing but bespoke boxing, that
bespoke growing, that bespoke stretching. There are entire places that
(07:25):
you go to be stretched. Now by the way I've been,
and I love this, but I just want you to know.
You go somewhere for someone to stretch you for an hour.
And then there was another derivative where someone was going
to exercise my face. And I went and I know
this because these these these fitness pr people will call
me and sometimes I'll get sucked in like someone's gonna
exercise my face. Okay, so you go in there and
there's like a regime for your face. I didn't know
(07:46):
my face need to be worked out, and now I know.
And now I realized, I've only worked my face out
twice in fifty years, so that can't be good for
my face. This brings me to now all the cool
kids are in their homes paying the same amount of
money to go to the just spoke curated religious cult
leader follower experience. Am. I have a bar in my
(08:11):
basement that's loose sight, and I think it'd be great
to hang laundry on that somebody sent me. Sarah's got
them coming over to measure now because I'm getting on
a reformer in my fucking dreams, or when I have sex,
maybe I'll get on the reformer. That's a good sex
position thing, and that's exercise too. That should be a
new class sex position class. Now. I was told if
you get on these classes at certain times a day
(08:34):
that you pay a lot of money for, you're cool
and they'll call you Patty Franco's in the class, Like no, no, no, no,
I don't know, please, no, they'll call you out. I
hear because they see that your Instagram name came in
and then they're gonna call you out. But so this
whole thing has has like now gotten down to like
at home Zoom exclusive, you're a loser if you're over
(08:54):
a size zero and have less than ten million dollars
and don't drive a range over fitness classes. So I
think there's a whole world of faux spirituality and fitness.
I just want you to know that I do not
think that's sweating on a bicycle next to the tiniest
percentile of people in the world economically is a spiritual experience.
(09:20):
All right, Well, what do you all think about fitness classes?
My guest today is Dave Portnoy, most of you have
heard of him. He is on the rise. He is disruptive,
He is influential, He is unfiltered. He is very relevant.
(09:41):
He is the founder of Barstool Sports, which he created
the brand bar Stool as a newspaper in two thousand three,
and he has transformed it into a multimillion dollar soon
to be billion dollar my opinion, digital media empire. Today
we talk about how he navigated big is decisions and
why it's important to always follow your gut. I know
(10:04):
you're going to love what he has to say. Very
interesting conversation and a lot of parallels between two of us,
which I was surprised by. I think, Hi, how are
you so? Where are you New York? Do you consider
(10:26):
yourself a New york or now? Because you see, even
though I know you're Massachusetts, you feel like a New
Yorker to me in many ways. Yeah. No, I'll never
be the New Yorker Bostonian. Yet in reading about you,
we have complimentary target audiences and businesses, which I think
is interesting and why I'm really excited to talk to you.
But I just want to talk about how you could
navigate a relationship, either in the future or in the
(10:47):
past with this kind of career, because I go through
this myself, and how do you manage friendships, personal relationships?
How does how does business and your personal intersect. It's
certainly got more challengeing as I've become more well known.
You know, in the early days Renee my ax, I
met her in the very beginning of doing Barstool, so
(11:08):
she was along for the ride and the journey. Uh
And as I became more well known, she gained some
notoriety and she'd be part of content because we document
my life and she was part of it. I still
maintain a great relationship with her. It was a little
challenging when we went our separate ways. You know, if
I'm out on a date, we're doing something, it became
(11:30):
public and I never really wanted to get back to
her earth just it's like nobody wants to see that
or here that. So I do my best to keep
my private life in that regard as private as possible.
You touch and feel so many things. You care about food,
you care about sports, you care about business, your passionate person.
So how do you separate what's work and what's not work.
(11:52):
I feel that I try to have fewer buckets full
than like six buckets full versus twelve a half full
is like a very simplistic answer. But I go with
my gut and what feels right at the time. And
you know, I never really have this great foresight to
what's next. Like right now, finance is something that I'm doing,
(12:14):
but that wasn't on the agenda pre COVID and I
never dreamed I'd be at the kind of center of
the retail movement and things like that. It just kind
of naturally occurred, and I don't give it a ton
of fun now. If we're talking like business opportunities, you know,
obviously I gotta pick and choose what I get involved
with that. But living my life and what becomes content
(12:36):
and what doesn't, I just kind of roll with it.
It's very organic. It's funny because I'm very similar. People
always asking about the plan and the business plan, the trajectory,
and I always say, I just execute the idea whatever
I feel passionate about doing. You plan to see it
and it grows. And that's why I love speaking to
people like you, because then I'm like, wow, like we
have that in common. That's interesting. Did you think you
had it when you were growing up when you were
(12:57):
a kid, what was your background and your householding your
childhood like, and did you feel that you had some
special thing or is that part of it? You just
went foot in front of the other and here you are.
You know, I always had an edge to me and
I didn't care what people said about me, and I
talked in a very East Coast like bust your balls
like type away. And I always probably had just a
(13:17):
little bit like more willing to march to the beat
of my own drummer. I always sort of had that
fearless and unfiltered from day one. Is your family like that,
if your parents like that, Yeah, to a degree, my
dad more so. But you know, like my dad's told
his story like he like he getting the arguments as
a kid, and it's like I back him into a corner.
(13:39):
It's like a twelve year old and like relentlessly like
hammer him with stuff. But yeah, I just don't care.
My dad's kind of somewhere on arroga. I just don't
care what people think about me. I never have and
that you know, I'm not afraid to make decisions that
people will say, oh, you should do that. I just
would never go with the flow. Guy, ever, I can
relate and do you believe? Also like but you don't
(14:00):
into the hate. But you also don't buy into the love.
Like you don't get sucked down the drain of people
hating you or what you're doing. But do you you
also don't get sucked down the drain of oh, people
love me, and it's right down in the middle. Yeah,
I mean, I will trust if somebody I trust and
believe in my circle says, oh, Dave, you went too far?
What are you doing here? I will certainly value that opinion.
(14:23):
But I don't care what people who don't like me say,
and the people who like me, I don't. I don't
put great stock in that either. So what percentage you
think you're lucky? And what percentage smart? Probably about fifty? Okay, perfect? Perfect? Yeah,
I mean, I really this is the only business I've
(14:45):
ever started, and I know most businesses fail. I started
a newspaper at a time when nobody starts a newspaper.
I had a lot of breaks happened at the exact
right moment in time. Like, without those moments happening, there's
no chance we're here. I also think as the right
(15:06):
person to take advantage of the luck, But without both,
there's no chance. We're here, there's just no chance. Right.
But for people at home, we're listening and trying to
come close to doing their own thing in the way
that you've done it. You can smell the opportunity because
your eyes are wide open. You're looking, so you know
when to jump in. You know what I mean, You're
(15:26):
knowing when to fold, went to hold the whole thing.
It sounds like that, like you're smart enough to look
at what's going on and if you see the opportunity,
sees it correct. We've pivoted a million times, made great
decisions a million times. But at the same time, you know,
it started as a newspaper. If the Internet and blogging
didn't kind of explode right as we were shifting into it,
(15:49):
and the guy moves to New York, He's like, I'll
build you a website. There was a lot of circumstances
that fell right for me, and I really think with
any business that becomes a success, well as we have,
or anything in general, you really need a lot of luck.
You need a lot and timing. You said, timing. Timing
is super important. You can be very you can be
(16:10):
way too early for something. I've seen people have the
greatest idea and just be too early, and then someone
else takes their whole life away because they weren't able
to sort of time it. What are you good at?
And what are you bad at? It could be personal,
but business in general, like what are you good at?
What are you bad at? And what do you struggle
with in business? Like? Fuck a kick at this right
because I have like ten things like that where I'm
just like, I can't do this. What do you not
(16:32):
good at? You know, I'm probably not the greatest manager
of people. I just it's literally on here, I literally
wrote because it's my nightmare. I wrote on here. Look,
do you still need to manage people? Do you find
that to be the hardest. I'm self motivated. I take
care of my own ship and the people we hire,
they don't get out of boys. Like the only time
you hear from me is if you did something wrong
(16:53):
or I'm disappointed or I'm mad, and I mean I'm ruthless,
like I will air you out and I can be
a hard person to work for. Now something say, keeps
people on their toes, So I'm definitely not good at that.
What I'm good at is for our business. I have
a very good intuition once like, we're never wrong. We're
(17:13):
on something like, Yep, it's gonna work. Now we've done
things may that maybe early and I'm like, I don't
know if it's gonna work or it won't. But once
we really commit to something and know about something, I'm
generally right. Like I just have a good sense of Yep,
the field, the moment, what we should be doing. I've
I've been very good at that. Don't You also think
(17:35):
it's because you're a place of yes person, So even
if it's shifting a little, you know how to find
your way through the back door, through the garage. We're
really you're just nailing it, Bose. I'm inherently good at
at keeping us in the news. I mean, I think
the biggest thing that Barstool probably compliments like we've been
around now almost two decades, and we've been edgy and
cool for two decades, which is very hard to do.
(17:58):
Like most businesses like that or media companies, you have
your moment and then you kind of fade. It could
be social media, could be almost anything on the internet.
We haven't faithed. There's something about us that have kept
us as this like pirate ship mentality and like those
are the bad boys, even though we've grown to be
kind of mainstream. So you gave up a piece of
(18:20):
your business, which I've been through that and described that process,
like how it came to be, what your thought process was,
Was it too early? Did it bring you at least
half of what you wanted it to because they never
brings you everything you want. Everybody's sacrificing a little and
growing a little if it's good. So how does that
whole process work for someone like you who likes to
be in control? So Barstool was successful. We started two
(18:42):
thousand and four and that deal happened in two thousand sixteen.
And I've said this before, but I started Barstool, I
would have been happy making sixty grand a year working
for myself. That was like the goal. I don't want
to work for somebody else. And it became far more
successful than I ever dreamed it would be. Was making
seven figures, taking on a lot of money. I kind
(19:03):
of was on I don't want to say coast mode.
But we had built our audience in Boston, New York,
and we really had a good thing going and I
never thought we'd take investment. I wasn't looking for investment.
And Uh, this guy, Mike Karns went from Yahoo Digital
the Turning Group reached out and he's like, hey, I'm
a fan of barstool. Would you ever be interested in
(19:24):
taking a meeting about investment? And I'm always open and
taking meetings, but it never I get different people reaching
out and never really got serious. This guy, Mike was
in San Francisco after the phone call. The next day
he flew to Boston, which immediately showed that he was
very serious. We had dinner and he was basically like,
if I gave you money, what would you do? And
(19:45):
I said, well, I think I would create. We're all separated,
so I was in Boston. Uh, Dan our guy in Chicago. Chicago,
we had a New York guy. I feel. The guy
said we all moved to one place and create like
a seven basically law reality show. And he was into it.
And I was convinced. Mike Karns and Turning we're believers
(20:07):
in the content and that was first and foremost, and
we struck a deal. I could They never could tell
me to do anything with content, and they'd invest money
into our stool, and most importantly, I think give us credibility,
like it wasn't just a madman turn and had a
reputation connections all of that. So would take us to
this like renegade kind of outfit to huh, what are
(20:28):
those guys doing? Correct? Introduction street credit, everything. And I
also knew we weren't great on the business side. And
I don't think we were not great on the business
side because I can't do business. But we're so business
and we're doing well. Correct. It's like I'm writing blogs
doing content. You have to beg us to advertise our
technology sucked. Um, So I I realized that. I said, well,
(20:52):
we gotta build out the business side. We've got to
find a CEO. I'll do all the content. Let's hire
somebody to run the business. And everything we talked about.
He agreed with the valuation of the company. We got
screwed in the hindsight, but you mean who they've they
put evaluation on it. Yeah, he picked one out of
the clouds. It was like seven point five million. It
(21:15):
ended up around twelve point five. I didn't realize the
time I had never done it. They were like pro negotiators. Now,
they were also the perfect fit for us, and they
lived up to everything they said. We never had maybe
one to two disagreements in the time we've been with them.
So they were the perfect partner. Because I've done a
deal with Beam Global for Skinny Girl cocktails and now
(21:38):
the multiples are ten times what I was paid for
my cocktail. But I needed the street cred I needed
to not get swallowed. I needed I get I get
everything you're saying, and the valuation. If you're talking about
five million dollars swing and they did everything they said,
then you're good. That's good totally, and we got it up.
It probably could have been more. But but what they
did churning, which the credit I feel they most deserve,
(22:02):
is bar Stool is controversial and they knew it. And
I don't think it's as controversial as people say it is.
But people, especially in in the times we live in,
they'll make mountains out of mo hill. And they never interfered.
They never were like, can't do this, and they just
sat and let us do our thing, and that's what
needed to be done. So to me, once I was
(22:23):
convinced they're gonna let us be us, and this is
gonna take bar stool from me making a good living
to you know, potentially a much bigger and help all
of the guys that have been with me. That offered
them a much better opportunity at becoming millionaires and whatnot.
I was comfortable with the deal. How many people work
with you, So when we did that deal, it was
(22:45):
like thirteen, I think we have that's really big. Okay.
And so you have a back end like if they
cash out again, you can ring the bell again for
so we we did sell again. So we've sold twice.
So so we we sold fifth I sold the company
to Turning Group. Last year, we sold thirty six percent
(23:06):
of it to a company called Penn National Gaming Casino Company,
and they have the option at the end of three
years to basically become the sole owner. Got it, okay,
So and that also was an amazing decision. Yeah, that
has made me very wealthy, more wealthy than I ever dreamed.
I'm sure you've gone through this at some level, meaning
maybe not the exact scenario. But I worked very hard
(23:28):
for a long time to make like one dollar and
then we did this deal with Penn in their publicly
trade company half of it was equity, half of it
was cash. But the stock has gone from like twenty
in like a year. So that's I get that too.
I have a lot of parallels, the most parallel career
(23:48):
that I've ever have anyone I've ever spoken to and
on here. So I'm fascinated by this, So go ahead.
So well, we did the deal. The stock was at
twenty six dollars, twenty cents. We do the deal. Wall
Street likes it goes up to forty COVID hits. They
have like casinos all over the country they're all shut down.
Stock goes to four. So went from four to four.
It's like, are we going out of business here or what?
(24:11):
Then things start turning around simultaneously. I become very well
known on Wall Street and everything just came together and
it's like, this is the pen guy, this is the
bars little guy, this is the guy making headlines all
over the place, and people bought into it and it
just has skyrocketed. It's a perfect storm. It really was.
(24:33):
So is that like you're like a more modern, edgy
common man Jim Kramer? Yeah, I think that's a good way.
I love Jim, love him. So basically I did something
to Wall Street and Finance that had it really been
done yet. It was Jim Kramer exactly. He kind of
(24:54):
revolutionized with mad money and screaming pressing horns. But I
did something I as memes and Internet. I was making
hype videos and I was like, it looked like you
were going to a football game when I'm talking about
stocks and I'm calling out talking heads and I'm doing
what people do on the Internet, except I brought it
to finance. So I turned on the cameras and I'm like,
(25:15):
I'm gonna day trade and I was putting up like
millions of dollars and people are watching in real time
as I was getting killed or winning, and just people
hadn't seen that before with the gimmicks and all the
bells and whistles that I've been doing at Barcetool forever,
but it had never been put to Finance before. And
Finance on these like stuffy people, these talking heads. It
(25:39):
just they didn't even know how to react to it,
and it and it caught fire. Basically, that's amazing. So
you're very creative, I mean, and you're also very good
at tech, and I'm not. I hate managing people in
the same way. I'm not good at all of that.
I hate social media and Instagram and knowing what's what
and how to do this and filters and give and
like you're amazing at all that. Suff I envy that.
(26:00):
I'm very creative, but that stuff is very hard for me. Yeah,
I'm not great at it. But we are the first
like internet digital company just of when we launched, so
we everyone we hire here grew up doing this stuff.
So I may not have to make it. But I
got a team of people who this is all they've
done their whole life. You know, what you want to
have for dinner, someone else can cook it, Like this
(26:22):
is what we're having. I gotta work on that. So
because when you did the first deal, you didn't care
about the money. You just wanted to grow the business
and grow the brand, which I also get. You make
different decisions in different parts of your career for different reasons.
It's not always about the money. Sometimes you'll take no
money because it's about the street credit, or it's about
uh just the awareness, or to build the overall brand,
or it's a flagship store. So now that I hear
(26:45):
about the second deal, what is the end zone? Like,
have you taken it into the end zone where and
I know you don't plan all these things, but what
what would the end zone look like for you if
somebody asked me what the end zone or the end
goal was when I did, when I started to come
pretty to turn in too. Now has changed so much.
The goalposts keep moving. But what I'm about to say,
(27:07):
as insane as it sounds, is far more realistic than
if I started day one saying I'm here. So I
guess I have bigger goals, Like I think we can
be a billion dollar company. You know, we're at the
forefront of a legalized vice gambling. There's marijuana and there's
gambling after that. I don't know what there else is
there to legalize, and we're in the perfect position for it.
(27:30):
So if we can execute on our vision, you know,
I think I could be in a position where it's like, hey,
I want to buy sports team. Is how big I
think the dream can be? First end zone? Yes, So
(27:55):
what is your target audience right now? Who are you
really reaching? How how much are women are of this audience?
And That's what I'm really curious about. Yeah, they've become
in an increasing part of our audience. You know call
her daddy. That podcast is gigantic. It's young, but that's
ours with Chicks in the Office, which is a popular
(28:15):
podcast a lot more women. Eric our CEO has her
own audience that she's a powerful executive. So it's certainly growing.
And if you have a good sense of humor, I
think you like us. We offer a little bit different
for everybody. Uh, And it was a huge It's definitely
something we've got more into. Also, people don't always know this,
(28:37):
but have you ever heard of like Jenna Marble's But
that doesn't mean anything and I'm gonna rock. So she
was like one of the original YouTube stars literally, like
she has like a wax statue of Madame Tousseau, really
like one of the original And I hired her out
of the Tanning Salon way back in Boston and we
had a female site stool a lot back in the
(28:58):
early days. And then she got so big she moved
to La became a star. So we have some of that.
I mean, it clearly is still male, but we have
a much bigger female audience probably, and people give us
credit for well yeah, and also sporting events they always
say like women are huge part of the audience with
the Super Bowl and things like that. I'm just I
was just curious because we're always trying to broaden our audience.
(29:19):
Me two men, you, two women, and I've got all
the moms and all these tiktoker's reach out to me,
mostly the guys, but because their mothers are fans, so
their moms are saying, talk to her and do what
she's doing. So you can. You know, you find your
your talent and your guests. I know, I do a
podcast with them. I was a successful to my late thirties.
I didn't have any money. It was broke. So they're
(29:40):
eighteen years old. I mean that's a whole other world.
So are you still the common man? Like? Are you
still the way you used to be? How have you changed?
Do you love the nicest sweet do you do you
have you learned to really spend? And this isn't a trap,
this is like literally, have you learned to spend and
enjoy money? Or do you still have that sort of
is it going to be taken away from me? Mentality?
What is your relations and ship to money? Do you
(30:00):
have noise about it? What is it? I like having it?
I think if I lost it, it wouldn't affect me
that much. I'm not money conscious, I never have been.
I'll spend what I have, So the more I have,
the more I spend. Ironically, which everyone always says, the
(30:21):
more well known I am, the less I have to
spend it on things like going out. And you know,
I go to Miami now a decent amount. I used
to go there kind of before. I have to scrounge
up every penny with my buddy is to be able
to like sit at a table. Now I get those
tables for free, which is crazy because I can afford them.
But yeah, I'm definitely living a far more extravagant life.
The only thing that and then I think this gonna
(30:43):
sounds so bougie. I love flying private. That's the only
thing I'd miss. I get it, no, because but that's
about time. That's you valuing your time and going through security.
That's what I'm saying. But that's time. It's like time suck,
and I'm sure that your time is super valuable. Are
you do you want to have a meaningful relationship? Do
you want to have a family? Do you did a
priority for you? How do you envision balancing that? How
(31:05):
do you do that dance. Yeah, I don't know if
i'd say it's a priority. I'm certainly like I kind
of look at my life day by day and if
I met somebody and it's like, Okay, I want to
hang out with this person the next day, the next week,
the next month, Okay, maybe I found something here. Is
there a part of me at times like oh I'm
forty three and and be like this old single man
that's not the greatest occasionally, but I don't let it
(31:27):
control me. There's nothing I can do. I'm never gonna
be the person who wakes up be like I need
to find like a partner or anything like that. Well,
do you because you have a program I call it.
I call it a program, Like I have a program.
I have a daughter, I live here, I go there.
My career is this, I do H s in or whatever.
So you have obviously a serious program. Could you be
(31:48):
with a woman who had their own programmer? Really has
to be someone who's down with your program because it's
so intensive and there's nothing wrong with either one. I'm
just saying, what what what's your general thing? I really
don't know, Like I don't I have no idea. Maybe
I could meet somebody and I like that they're doing
their own thing, or maybe i'd want them to be
more part I don't know this sounds cliche, is but
(32:10):
if I didn't meet somebody, I'd like just to know
and whatever that is that makes me be like, that's
the person the program. Whether it's that or as you're
calling it, I don't know. I really don't know. But
you would never online date? What do you mean online date?
Like I'm one of the services, Yes, a dating app,
because I met my boyfriend who's spectacular and no one
would ever believe I would meet him, and people don't
(32:32):
believe he would he met me there, Oh you met
him on that, Yeah, but it was like he's like
Prince Charming. So I'm just saying it's not that it's
crazy that you could meet real people. It's shocking who
you can meet online if you ever want to meet someone,
if you do wake up one day because you can't
be casual that you have to be like I might
be interested in meeting someone because it's like you're going
(32:52):
into a store to look for what you do like
and look at difference though between like Instagram, like I
mean a million people slide into my d ms wanting
to meet. I'll give you a great idea because you
know that they are there because they want to seriously
meet someone. And most of them on certain apps do
want to seriously meet someone. They're not there's some that
just want to check and get laid, get a free meal.
(33:13):
You can weed that all out. There are some at
a certain level that are smart, that are educated, that
really want to meet someone. So you've checked that box,
and then you can find out what they do, how
they live, where they travel. Then you can go over
to their social little for that. But you really do
kind of get an understanding and you can do a
zoom date. You don't have to leave your house. You
get to see what their house looks like. You get
to kind of have a conversation. You can put some
(33:35):
makeup on if you want, and have a drink, and
you put on a cute shirt. You can wear no
pants as long as they don't. Maybe they'll want that.
But you know, and you haven't expended any time or energy,
and you've been on a first date, and then you
know if you want to see them again in person.
It's really good. I promise you. It's efficient. You're efficient.
You know, the funny time to like and meeting in
a bar. Apparently girls now don't like to meet guys
(33:57):
and bars COVID notwithstanding, because what happens is if there
are two women sitting at a bar, they're doing it
for a reason. They're not sitting there for guys to
walk up to them. And guys won't even walk up
to them because they know that these girls would be
on on my dates if they wanted to tonight. And
they like to vet people. So it's a really good
vetting program. That's what I think. I gotta be honesome.
(34:18):
I don't see that scenario happening for me anytime soon.
All right, well, let me help write your dating profile
if you do. So, what do you like to do
in your spare time? What is your personal life like?
Not business? Just what do you enjoy I like horse racing.
I like gambling, which is now my livelihood. So that's good. Um.
And then I go out. I'm a single guy, so
(34:39):
I go out. Do you like to dance? You'd like
to go to the clubs? Do you dance? I would
say dance? No, I don't know. I'm more of like
a sit on the back of a table. And just
kind of like Bob, like a chair dancer. Like it
doesn't matter what type of music is playing. It could
be like eighties pointed sister, or like rap or like techno.
I'm dancing the same way, which is just like this. Okay.
(35:00):
As a matter, and then I want to know, this
is an important question. What's your all star five athletes?
The all star team from any different sport? My personal
Tom Brady clearly that. Then it's Michael Jordan's, Wayne Gretzky, Well,
golf's Jack Nicholas, boxing's Muhammad Ali. Baseball it's as a
(35:24):
tough one, huh. I don't know who i'd put in baseball.
Maybe let your fans put that tough. That's a tough one.
All right, So baseball, you'll get back to macy with
Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Gretzky, Jack Nicholas, Ali. What sport
are we missing? This one sport? Oh? You want tennis?
All right? That's your all star team. You are great.
I enjoyed talking to you. I appreciate it. I know
(35:45):
you have no time and you gave me some, so
I really appreciate it. I hope we get to meet
in person one day and I hope I get to
hear about you're dating fictitious profile, but if you had
one sentence on a dating profile, Hi, I'm Dave, all right,
I like it, trade market bye, Dave. Something. I really
(36:08):
enjoyed my conversation with Dave. I thought that coming in
he was a little bit hesitant, and he probably has
so many people annoying him and asking him stupid questions,
and he probably agreed to do this, and then it
comes this morning and he's like, oh, I have to
do this podcast because that's what does happen with things
like this, and it's okay. And I really felt that
(36:29):
throughout the course of the conversation he was being asked
questions that he doesn't normally think about, you know, about
the machinations of his business, about the way that he
makes decisions, about who he is as a person, which
is really what I'm most interested in. It's not about
what happened in the headlines last week and what did
he say to someone, And people like him sometimes get
worried ahead of time, like what is she going to
try to ask me? And I just really wanted to
(36:51):
get a sense of who he is because people who
are really, really successful have many differences from one another,
and there are definitely similarities that you can peg. And
there was a lot about his trajectory that I saw
in mind which was comforting and um familiar and made
me want to kind of dig deeper. So I appreciate
(37:13):
you listening, rate, review, and subscribe. I thought Dave Portnoy
was an excellent guest, and we just keep getting the
most incredible guests because of you and your feedback. That
was really fun and different and controversial, all of which
I love, so thank you so much. Have a great day.
(37:37):
Just Be is posted by me Bethany Frankel The Real
Productions and Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is Fiona Smith,
and our producer is Stephanie Stender. Sarah Katnac is our
assistant producer, and our development Executive is Nyantre or just
Be as a production of Endeavor Content. This episode was
mixed by Sam bet. To catch more moments from the show,
(37:58):
follow us on Instagram at us Be with Bethany m
H
Everyone has a new sort of approach to an attitude
towards fitness now because people are zooming at home and
I was fain it's okay. So a couple of years ago,
or maybe it was like five years ago, designer fitness started, okay,
So this is when it became like this bespoke curated
(00:33):
fitness experience. So how I grew up and first understood
fitness and Jim's was it was. It was those like
sweaty gyms of windows on the second floor of Boston
or New York City buildings, and you dreaded it. And
January one, you got a membership and leg warmers and
hot pink uh like tights and some people wore like
(00:58):
thombs up their ass, but body suits and everybody went
more your Reebok high tops and scrunches, and you dreaded it.
Maybe it was probably like thirty dollars a month or something,
and then you never went back and then tried to
fight them forever to get out of the mafia. That
was that monthly payment, and that was like I feel
like it was like Crunch New York Sports Club twenty
(01:22):
four hour fitness, which is so crazy, but anyway, that
was what it was for me, And then you found
the StairMaster and you just hated it. But like some
people went there to flirt and maybe you could afford
a trainer. And then it became a little more fancy
in New York City and they had the Reebok Club
and the New and the Vertical Club was was before
the Reebok Club, and that was an Upper East Side
(01:44):
place where like Jewish New York City yuppies could afford
I guess a hundred and fifteen dollars a month to
work out, which is was so much money to me
that it could never ever happen in years later. Probably
finagle or found a way to get a disc count
of membership or I don't know. These are these places
that had steam rooms and saunas, and I guess you
(02:04):
could bring your clothes and pay for the extra laundry
service where the'd wash your work at close at being
your locker. I never could afford that or paid for that,
but I loved it, and my reward was going into
that steam room. Okay. So then the next version of
fitness evolved into the step craze. Like step you do
step aerobics in the classes and you do like grapevine
(02:26):
aerobics in the classes. And then it evolved into spinning.
And that started for me in l A at the
Spectrum Club, which was part of Sports Club l A.
And there were these spinning classes and they were just
like normal gym memberships, and people would be in the
front and excited and the music was great and you
were sweating and it was efficient and it was forty minutes.
And Barry's boot Camp came alive then, and it was
(02:48):
a certain group and one class that everyone would sweat
on top of each other and do the treadmill for
half the class and torture yourself for like situps and
all this other stuff. Then years later, I remember talking
to a friend in New York and she said, I
started soul Cycle and I said, okay, I said, what
is that? Stually, Well, it's a bicycle class. You go
on this journey. It's a spiritual fitness journey. And I
(03:10):
was like, so it's spinning. No, it's not spinning. It's
not spinning. I'm like, well, it's a bicycle attached to
the floor and they're playing music for forty five minutes. Yes,
but it's a different experience, like you're on a journey,
people wearing bandanas, this is your life. I'm like, it's spinning,
and spinning was invented by Johnny G years ago, and
other people would call it like rev cycle or other
things because they didn't have the trademark for what it
(03:31):
was called, so you can't really call it spinning. I
think Johnny G owned spinning, but I guess didn't monetize
or market in the right way. So soul cycle comes
in and I'm like, Okay, if it's a different, amazing
religious experience that you're saying is different for your body,
and it's not spinning, I want to go to a class.
So years ago I went to a class. I like
it spin it, it's spinning. It's spinning. And you know,
(03:51):
if there was a place in the Hampton zone Hampton
and it was everyone's it's different, it's a journey, okay.
So I thought it was spinning. To me, it was spinning, okay.
So then it evolved into a cult where all of
these women and gay men and wealthy sort of Hampton's
type hedge funding mogul type private equity kind of men
(04:14):
would go and we're obsessed. And there were these teachers
that were like these religious cult leaders that like they
could only go to their class and they were wait lists.
But then you wanted to be in the front of
the room and that would cost like seventy five dollars,
And I'm like, what the funk is going up? People
are paying seventy five dollars to go to a gym
(04:35):
class for one class to sit in the front row.
I used to hide in the back row because you
don't want to be seen and you just don't want
to be like you don't want to be like at work,
like working. But this the teachers, this is how they
speak to you, and this is just its soul. Second,
we'll get on too, fly Will and the whole other
world of bespoke fitness. But the teachers, this is your life.
(04:57):
Your life, everything you've ever everything that's ever happened you
in your life, is right now. This is who you are.
This is the moment, and this defines who you are.
I'm like, no, it fucking doesn't. I'm attached to a
bicycle on the floor, sweating, just trying to get the
funk out of here. This is your moment. For the
every fiber of your being is determined by how you
(05:17):
finished this class. I'm like, I don't think it is.
I'm gonna leave this class. I only have thirty minutes.
I have to go get my eyebrows wax, Like what
do you mean? So anyway, at the came to these
people that felt like they were going to church, like
religious church every week by wearing like massive diamonds, showing
off their cars and their their belongings, and paying seventy
five dollars to sit in the front row. And if
(05:38):
you were really popular, you would sit in the front
row on the thing, like on the stage with the teacher.
And now you're fucking teaching a class. So now I'm sorry,
I'm paying seventy five dollars to sit in the front
be seen and half teach the class. I want to
be paid for that. Incidentally, I did go to the
Shwin School of Spinning, and somewhere in one of my
(05:59):
like photo boxes, I am a certified spin instructor. Ladies
and gentlemen, I am. So I could go up there
and leave my own cult religion. But anyway that you know,
i'd like to say, I digress. Then came bespoke model classes,
where it was model fit and models taught it and
models went to it, and people who are sized four
(06:19):
feel like fats. So is for being next to models
eaching model classes. And then came dancer classes where other
people who are sized too felt fat, and then we're
like the other like derivative dancer classes in Soho and
rebeca where you have to be rich hand have a
net worth of ten million dollars to go to that
class or you're a fucking loser, like it's for skinny
(06:41):
nose job hair and you have to have a net
worth of ten million dollars. You have to have a
your hair has to be parted down the middle, and
you have to drive a g wagon or arrange rover
and that's what you have to do to get into
that class. And if you don't keep up with a
hundred and fifty mile an hour dance routine mean that
only someone who is in Moulan a Rouge could do,
(07:03):
then you're like snub debt. And this is one of
those classes where the teacher doesn't pay attention to anybody
because if you don't fucking know the moves and you
don't belong. So that's the exclusive fitness chapter, which was
also probably and then the boxing but bespoke boxing, that
bespoke growing, that bespoke stretching. There are entire places that
(07:25):
you go to be stretched. Now by the way I've been,
and I love this, but I just want you to know.
You go somewhere for someone to stretch you for an hour.
And then there was another derivative where someone was going
to exercise my face. And I went and I know
this because these these these fitness pr people will call
me and sometimes I'll get sucked in like someone's gonna
exercise my face. Okay, so you go in there and
there's like a regime for your face. I didn't know
(07:46):
my face need to be worked out, and now I know.
And now I realized, I've only worked my face out
twice in fifty years, so that can't be good for
my face. This brings me to now all the cool
kids are in their homes paying the same amount of
money to go to the just spoke curated religious cult
leader follower experience. Am. I have a bar in my
(08:11):
basement that's loose sight, and I think it'd be great
to hang laundry on that somebody sent me. Sarah's got
them coming over to measure now because I'm getting on
a reformer in my fucking dreams, or when I have sex,
maybe I'll get on the reformer. That's a good sex
position thing, and that's exercise too. That should be a
new class sex position class. Now. I was told if
you get on these classes at certain times a day
(08:34):
that you pay a lot of money for, you're cool
and they'll call you Patty Franco's in the class, Like no, no, no, no,
I don't know, please, no, they'll call you out. I
hear because they see that your Instagram name came in
and then they're gonna call you out. But so this
whole thing has has like now gotten down to like
at home Zoom exclusive, you're a loser if you're over
(08:54):
a size zero and have less than ten million dollars
and don't drive a range over fitness classes. So I
think there's a whole world of faux spirituality and fitness.
I just want you to know that I do not
think that's sweating on a bicycle next to the tiniest
percentile of people in the world economically is a spiritual experience.
(09:20):
All right, Well, what do you all think about fitness classes?
My guest today is Dave Portnoy, most of you have
heard of him. He is on the rise. He is disruptive,
He is influential, He is unfiltered. He is very relevant.
(09:41):
He is the founder of Barstool Sports, which he created
the brand bar Stool as a newspaper in two thousand three,
and he has transformed it into a multimillion dollar soon
to be billion dollar my opinion, digital media empire. Today
we talk about how he navigated big is decisions and
why it's important to always follow your gut. I know
(10:04):
you're going to love what he has to say. Very
interesting conversation and a lot of parallels between two of us,
which I was surprised by. I think, Hi, how are
you so? Where are you New York? Do you consider
(10:26):
yourself a New york or now? Because you see, even
though I know you're Massachusetts, you feel like a New
Yorker to me in many ways. Yeah. No, I'll never
be the New Yorker Bostonian. Yet in reading about you,
we have complimentary target audiences and businesses, which I think
is interesting and why I'm really excited to talk to you.
But I just want to talk about how you could
navigate a relationship, either in the future or in the
(10:47):
past with this kind of career, because I go through
this myself, and how do you manage friendships, personal relationships?
How does how does business and your personal intersect. It's
certainly got more challengeing as I've become more well known.
You know, in the early days Renee my ax, I
met her in the very beginning of doing Barstool, so
(11:08):
she was along for the ride and the journey. Uh
And as I became more well known, she gained some
notoriety and she'd be part of content because we document
my life and she was part of it. I still
maintain a great relationship with her. It was a little
challenging when we went our separate ways. You know, if
I'm out on a date, we're doing something, it became
(11:30):
public and I never really wanted to get back to
her earth just it's like nobody wants to see that
or here that. So I do my best to keep
my private life in that regard as private as possible.
You touch and feel so many things. You care about food,
you care about sports, you care about business, your passionate person.
So how do you separate what's work and what's not work.
(11:52):
I feel that I try to have fewer buckets full
than like six buckets full versus twelve a half full
is like a very simplistic answer. But I go with
my gut and what feels right at the time. And
you know, I never really have this great foresight to
what's next. Like right now, finance is something that I'm doing,
(12:14):
but that wasn't on the agenda pre COVID and I
never dreamed I'd be at the kind of center of
the retail movement and things like that. It just kind
of naturally occurred, and I don't give it a ton
of fun now. If we're talking like business opportunities, you know,
obviously I gotta pick and choose what I get involved
with that. But living my life and what becomes content
(12:36):
and what doesn't, I just kind of roll with it.
It's very organic. It's funny because I'm very similar. People
always asking about the plan and the business plan, the trajectory,
and I always say, I just execute the idea whatever
I feel passionate about doing. You plan to see it
and it grows. And that's why I love speaking to
people like you, because then I'm like, wow, like we
have that in common. That's interesting. Did you think you
had it when you were growing up when you were
(12:57):
a kid, what was your background and your householding your
childhood like, and did you feel that you had some
special thing or is that part of it? You just
went foot in front of the other and here you are.
You know, I always had an edge to me and
I didn't care what people said about me, and I
talked in a very East Coast like bust your balls
like type away. And I always probably had just a
(13:17):
little bit like more willing to march to the beat
of my own drummer. I always sort of had that
fearless and unfiltered from day one. Is your family like that,
if your parents like that, Yeah, to a degree, my
dad more so. But you know, like my dad's told
his story like he like he getting the arguments as
a kid, and it's like I back him into a corner.
(13:39):
It's like a twelve year old and like relentlessly like
hammer him with stuff. But yeah, I just don't care.
My dad's kind of somewhere on arroga. I just don't
care what people think about me. I never have and
that you know, I'm not afraid to make decisions that
people will say, oh, you should do that. I just
would never go with the flow. Guy, ever, I can
relate and do you believe? Also like but you don't
(14:00):
into the hate. But you also don't buy into the love.
Like you don't get sucked down the drain of people
hating you or what you're doing. But do you you
also don't get sucked down the drain of oh, people
love me, and it's right down in the middle. Yeah,
I mean, I will trust if somebody I trust and
believe in my circle says, oh, Dave, you went too far?
What are you doing here? I will certainly value that opinion.
(14:23):
But I don't care what people who don't like me say,
and the people who like me, I don't. I don't
put great stock in that either. So what percentage you
think you're lucky? And what percentage smart? Probably about fifty? Okay, perfect? Perfect? Yeah,
I mean, I really this is the only business I've
(14:45):
ever started, and I know most businesses fail. I started
a newspaper at a time when nobody starts a newspaper.
I had a lot of breaks happened at the exact
right moment in time. Like, without those moments happening, there's
no chance we're here. I also think as the right
(15:06):
person to take advantage of the luck, But without both,
there's no chance. We're here, there's just no chance. Right.
But for people at home, we're listening and trying to
come close to doing their own thing in the way
that you've done it. You can smell the opportunity because
your eyes are wide open. You're looking, so you know
when to jump in. You know what I mean, You're
(15:26):
knowing when to fold, went to hold the whole thing.
It sounds like that, like you're smart enough to look
at what's going on and if you see the opportunity,
sees it correct. We've pivoted a million times, made great
decisions a million times. But at the same time, you know,
it started as a newspaper. If the Internet and blogging
didn't kind of explode right as we were shifting into it,
(15:49):
and the guy moves to New York, He's like, I'll
build you a website. There was a lot of circumstances
that fell right for me, and I really think with
any business that becomes a success, well as we have,
or anything in general, you really need a lot of luck.
You need a lot and timing. You said, timing. Timing
is super important. You can be very you can be
(16:10):
way too early for something. I've seen people have the
greatest idea and just be too early, and then someone
else takes their whole life away because they weren't able
to sort of time it. What are you good at?
And what are you bad at? It could be personal,
but business in general, like what are you good at?
What are you bad at? And what do you struggle
with in business? Like? Fuck a kick at this right
because I have like ten things like that where I'm
just like, I can't do this. What do you not
(16:32):
good at? You know, I'm probably not the greatest manager
of people. I just it's literally on here, I literally
wrote because it's my nightmare. I wrote on here. Look,
do you still need to manage people? Do you find
that to be the hardest. I'm self motivated. I take
care of my own ship and the people we hire,
they don't get out of boys. Like the only time
you hear from me is if you did something wrong
(16:53):
or I'm disappointed or I'm mad, and I mean I'm ruthless,
like I will air you out and I can be
a hard person to work for. Now something say, keeps
people on their toes, So I'm definitely not good at that.
What I'm good at is for our business. I have
a very good intuition once like, we're never wrong. We're
(17:13):
on something like, Yep, it's gonna work. Now we've done
things may that maybe early and I'm like, I don't
know if it's gonna work or it won't. But once
we really commit to something and know about something, I'm
generally right. Like I just have a good sense of Yep,
the field, the moment, what we should be doing. I've
I've been very good at that. Don't You also think
(17:35):
it's because you're a place of yes person, So even
if it's shifting a little, you know how to find
your way through the back door, through the garage. We're
really you're just nailing it, Bose. I'm inherently good at
at keeping us in the news. I mean, I think
the biggest thing that Barstool probably compliments like we've been
around now almost two decades, and we've been edgy and
cool for two decades, which is very hard to do.
(17:58):
Like most businesses like that or media companies, you have
your moment and then you kind of fade. It could
be social media, could be almost anything on the internet.
We haven't faithed. There's something about us that have kept
us as this like pirate ship mentality and like those
are the bad boys, even though we've grown to be
kind of mainstream. So you gave up a piece of
(18:20):
your business, which I've been through that and described that process,
like how it came to be, what your thought process was,
Was it too early? Did it bring you at least
half of what you wanted it to because they never
brings you everything you want. Everybody's sacrificing a little and
growing a little if it's good. So how does that
whole process work for someone like you who likes to
be in control? So Barstool was successful. We started two
(18:42):
thousand and four and that deal happened in two thousand sixteen.
And I've said this before, but I started Barstool, I
would have been happy making sixty grand a year working
for myself. That was like the goal. I don't want
to work for somebody else. And it became far more
successful than I ever dreamed it would be. Was making
seven figures, taking on a lot of money. I kind
(19:03):
of was on I don't want to say coast mode.
But we had built our audience in Boston, New York,
and we really had a good thing going and I
never thought we'd take investment. I wasn't looking for investment.
And Uh, this guy, Mike Karns went from Yahoo Digital
the Turning Group reached out and he's like, hey, I'm
a fan of barstool. Would you ever be interested in
(19:24):
taking a meeting about investment? And I'm always open and
taking meetings, but it never I get different people reaching
out and never really got serious. This guy, Mike was
in San Francisco after the phone call. The next day
he flew to Boston, which immediately showed that he was
very serious. We had dinner and he was basically like,
if I gave you money, what would you do? And
(19:45):
I said, well, I think I would create. We're all separated,
so I was in Boston. Uh, Dan our guy in Chicago. Chicago,
we had a New York guy. I feel. The guy
said we all moved to one place and create like
a seven basically law reality show. And he was into it.
And I was convinced. Mike Karns and Turning we're believers
(20:07):
in the content and that was first and foremost, and
we struck a deal. I could They never could tell
me to do anything with content, and they'd invest money
into our stool, and most importantly, I think give us credibility,
like it wasn't just a madman turn and had a
reputation connections all of that. So would take us to
this like renegade kind of outfit to huh, what are
(20:28):
those guys doing? Correct? Introduction street credit, everything. And I
also knew we weren't great on the business side. And
I don't think we were not great on the business
side because I can't do business. But we're so business
and we're doing well. Correct. It's like I'm writing blogs
doing content. You have to beg us to advertise our
technology sucked. Um, So I I realized that. I said, well,
(20:52):
we gotta build out the business side. We've got to
find a CEO. I'll do all the content. Let's hire
somebody to run the business. And everything we talked about.
He agreed with the valuation of the company. We got
screwed in the hindsight, but you mean who they've they
put evaluation on it. Yeah, he picked one out of
the clouds. It was like seven point five million. It
(21:15):
ended up around twelve point five. I didn't realize the
time I had never done it. They were like pro negotiators. Now,
they were also the perfect fit for us, and they
lived up to everything they said. We never had maybe
one to two disagreements in the time we've been with them.
So they were the perfect partner. Because I've done a
deal with Beam Global for Skinny Girl cocktails and now
(21:38):
the multiples are ten times what I was paid for
my cocktail. But I needed the street cred I needed
to not get swallowed. I needed I get I get
everything you're saying, and the valuation. If you're talking about
five million dollars swing and they did everything they said,
then you're good. That's good totally, and we got it up.
It probably could have been more. But but what they
did churning, which the credit I feel they most deserve,
(22:02):
is bar Stool is controversial and they knew it. And
I don't think it's as controversial as people say it is.
But people, especially in in the times we live in,
they'll make mountains out of mo hill. And they never interfered.
They never were like, can't do this, and they just
sat and let us do our thing, and that's what
needed to be done. So to me, once I was
(22:23):
convinced they're gonna let us be us, and this is
gonna take bar stool from me making a good living
to you know, potentially a much bigger and help all
of the guys that have been with me. That offered
them a much better opportunity at becoming millionaires and whatnot.
I was comfortable with the deal. How many people work
with you, So when we did that deal, it was
(22:45):
like thirteen, I think we have that's really big. Okay.
And so you have a back end like if they
cash out again, you can ring the bell again for
so we we did sell again. So we've sold twice.
So so we we sold fifth I sold the company
to Turning Group. Last year, we sold thirty six percent
(23:06):
of it to a company called Penn National Gaming Casino Company,
and they have the option at the end of three
years to basically become the sole owner. Got it, okay,
So and that also was an amazing decision. Yeah, that
has made me very wealthy, more wealthy than I ever dreamed.
I'm sure you've gone through this at some level, meaning
maybe not the exact scenario. But I worked very hard
(23:28):
for a long time to make like one dollar and
then we did this deal with Penn in their publicly
trade company half of it was equity, half of it
was cash. But the stock has gone from like twenty
in like a year. So that's I get that too.
I have a lot of parallels, the most parallel career
(23:48):
that I've ever have anyone I've ever spoken to and
on here. So I'm fascinated by this, So go ahead.
So well, we did the deal. The stock was at
twenty six dollars, twenty cents. We do the deal. Wall
Street likes it goes up to forty COVID hits. They
have like casinos all over the country they're all shut down.
Stock goes to four. So went from four to four.
It's like, are we going out of business here or what?
(24:11):
Then things start turning around simultaneously. I become very well
known on Wall Street and everything just came together and
it's like, this is the pen guy, this is the
bars little guy, this is the guy making headlines all
over the place, and people bought into it and it
just has skyrocketed. It's a perfect storm. It really was.
(24:33):
So is that like you're like a more modern, edgy
common man Jim Kramer? Yeah, I think that's a good way.
I love Jim, love him. So basically I did something
to Wall Street and Finance that had it really been
done yet. It was Jim Kramer exactly. He kind of
(24:54):
revolutionized with mad money and screaming pressing horns. But I
did something I as memes and Internet. I was making
hype videos and I was like, it looked like you
were going to a football game when I'm talking about
stocks and I'm calling out talking heads and I'm doing
what people do on the Internet, except I brought it
to finance. So I turned on the cameras and I'm like,
(25:15):
I'm gonna day trade and I was putting up like
millions of dollars and people are watching in real time
as I was getting killed or winning, and just people
hadn't seen that before with the gimmicks and all the
bells and whistles that I've been doing at Barcetool forever,
but it had never been put to Finance before. And
Finance on these like stuffy people, these talking heads. It
(25:39):
just they didn't even know how to react to it,
and it and it caught fire. Basically, that's amazing. So
you're very creative, I mean, and you're also very good
at tech, and I'm not. I hate managing people in
the same way. I'm not good at all of that.
I hate social media and Instagram and knowing what's what
and how to do this and filters and give and
like you're amazing at all that. Suff I envy that.
(26:00):
I'm very creative, but that stuff is very hard for me. Yeah,
I'm not great at it. But we are the first
like internet digital company just of when we launched, so
we everyone we hire here grew up doing this stuff.
So I may not have to make it. But I
got a team of people who this is all they've
done their whole life. You know, what you want to
have for dinner, someone else can cook it, Like this
(26:22):
is what we're having. I gotta work on that. So
because when you did the first deal, you didn't care
about the money. You just wanted to grow the business
and grow the brand, which I also get. You make
different decisions in different parts of your career for different reasons.
It's not always about the money. Sometimes you'll take no
money because it's about the street credit, or it's about
uh just the awareness, or to build the overall brand,
or it's a flagship store. So now that I hear
(26:45):
about the second deal, what is the end zone? Like,
have you taken it into the end zone where and
I know you don't plan all these things, but what
what would the end zone look like for you if
somebody asked me what the end zone or the end
goal was when I did, when I started to come
pretty to turn in too. Now has changed so much.
The goalposts keep moving. But what I'm about to say,
(27:07):
as insane as it sounds, is far more realistic than
if I started day one saying I'm here. So I
guess I have bigger goals, Like I think we can
be a billion dollar company. You know, we're at the
forefront of a legalized vice gambling. There's marijuana and there's
gambling after that. I don't know what there else is
there to legalize, and we're in the perfect position for it.
(27:30):
So if we can execute on our vision, you know,
I think I could be in a position where it's like, hey,
I want to buy sports team. Is how big I
think the dream can be? First end zone? Yes, So
(27:55):
what is your target audience right now? Who are you
really reaching? How how much are women are of this audience?
And That's what I'm really curious about. Yeah, they've become
in an increasing part of our audience. You know call
her daddy. That podcast is gigantic. It's young, but that's
ours with Chicks in the Office, which is a popular
(28:15):
podcast a lot more women. Eric our CEO has her
own audience that she's a powerful executive. So it's certainly growing.
And if you have a good sense of humor, I
think you like us. We offer a little bit different
for everybody. Uh, And it was a huge It's definitely
something we've got more into. Also, people don't always know this,
(28:37):
but have you ever heard of like Jenna Marble's But
that doesn't mean anything and I'm gonna rock. So she
was like one of the original YouTube stars literally, like
she has like a wax statue of Madame Tousseau, really
like one of the original And I hired her out
of the Tanning Salon way back in Boston and we
had a female site stool a lot back in the
(28:58):
early days. And then she got so big she moved
to La became a star. So we have some of that.
I mean, it clearly is still male, but we have
a much bigger female audience probably, and people give us
credit for well yeah, and also sporting events they always
say like women are huge part of the audience with
the Super Bowl and things like that. I'm just I
was just curious because we're always trying to broaden our audience.
(29:19):
Me two men, you, two women, and I've got all
the moms and all these tiktoker's reach out to me,
mostly the guys, but because their mothers are fans, so
their moms are saying, talk to her and do what
she's doing. So you can. You know, you find your
your talent and your guests. I know, I do a
podcast with them. I was a successful to my late thirties.
I didn't have any money. It was broke. So they're
(29:40):
eighteen years old. I mean that's a whole other world.
So are you still the common man? Like? Are you
still the way you used to be? How have you changed?
Do you love the nicest sweet do you do you
have you learned to really spend? And this isn't a trap,
this is like literally, have you learned to spend and
enjoy money? Or do you still have that sort of
is it going to be taken away from me? Mentality?
What is your relations and ship to money? Do you
(30:00):
have noise about it? What is it? I like having it?
I think if I lost it, it wouldn't affect me
that much. I'm not money conscious, I never have been.
I'll spend what I have, So the more I have,
the more I spend. Ironically, which everyone always says, the
(30:21):
more well known I am, the less I have to
spend it on things like going out. And you know,
I go to Miami now a decent amount. I used
to go there kind of before. I have to scrounge
up every penny with my buddy is to be able
to like sit at a table. Now I get those
tables for free, which is crazy because I can afford them.
But yeah, I'm definitely living a far more extravagant life.
The only thing that and then I think this gonna
(30:43):
sounds so bougie. I love flying private. That's the only
thing I'd miss. I get it, no, because but that's
about time. That's you valuing your time and going through security.
That's what I'm saying. But that's time. It's like time suck,
and I'm sure that your time is super valuable. Are
you do you want to have a meaningful relationship? Do
you want to have a family? Do you did a
priority for you? How do you envision balancing that? How
(31:05):
do you do that dance. Yeah, I don't know if
i'd say it's a priority. I'm certainly like I kind
of look at my life day by day and if
I met somebody and it's like, Okay, I want to
hang out with this person the next day, the next week,
the next month, Okay, maybe I found something here. Is
there a part of me at times like oh I'm
forty three and and be like this old single man
that's not the greatest occasionally, but I don't let it
(31:27):
control me. There's nothing I can do. I'm never gonna
be the person who wakes up be like I need
to find like a partner or anything like that. Well,
do you because you have a program I call it.
I call it a program, Like I have a program.
I have a daughter, I live here, I go there.
My career is this, I do H s in or whatever.
So you have obviously a serious program. Could you be
(31:48):
with a woman who had their own programmer? Really has
to be someone who's down with your program because it's
so intensive and there's nothing wrong with either one. I'm
just saying, what what what's your general thing? I really
don't know, Like I don't I have no idea. Maybe
I could meet somebody and I like that they're doing
their own thing, or maybe i'd want them to be
more part I don't know this sounds cliche, is but
(32:10):
if I didn't meet somebody, I'd like just to know
and whatever that is that makes me be like, that's
the person the program. Whether it's that or as you're
calling it, I don't know. I really don't know. But
you would never online date? What do you mean online date?
Like I'm one of the services, Yes, a dating app,
because I met my boyfriend who's spectacular and no one
would ever believe I would meet him, and people don't
(32:32):
believe he would he met me there, Oh you met
him on that, Yeah, but it was like he's like
Prince Charming. So I'm just saying it's not that it's
crazy that you could meet real people. It's shocking who
you can meet online if you ever want to meet someone,
if you do wake up one day because you can't
be casual that you have to be like I might
be interested in meeting someone because it's like you're going
(32:52):
into a store to look for what you do like
and look at difference though between like Instagram, like I
mean a million people slide into my d ms wanting
to meet. I'll give you a great idea because you
know that they are there because they want to seriously
meet someone. And most of them on certain apps do
want to seriously meet someone. They're not there's some that
just want to check and get laid, get a free meal.
(33:13):
You can weed that all out. There are some at
a certain level that are smart, that are educated, that
really want to meet someone. So you've checked that box,
and then you can find out what they do, how
they live, where they travel. Then you can go over
to their social little for that. But you really do
kind of get an understanding and you can do a
zoom date. You don't have to leave your house. You
get to see what their house looks like. You get
to kind of have a conversation. You can put some
(33:35):
makeup on if you want, and have a drink, and
you put on a cute shirt. You can wear no
pants as long as they don't. Maybe they'll want that.
But you know, and you haven't expended any time or energy,
and you've been on a first date, and then you
know if you want to see them again in person.
It's really good. I promise you. It's efficient. You're efficient.
You know, the funny time to like and meeting in
a bar. Apparently girls now don't like to meet guys
(33:57):
and bars COVID notwithstanding, because what happens is if there
are two women sitting at a bar, they're doing it
for a reason. They're not sitting there for guys to
walk up to them. And guys won't even walk up
to them because they know that these girls would be
on on my dates if they wanted to tonight. And
they like to vet people. So it's a really good
vetting program. That's what I think. I gotta be honesome.
(34:18):
I don't see that scenario happening for me anytime soon.
All right, well, let me help write your dating profile
if you do. So, what do you like to do
in your spare time? What is your personal life like?
Not business? Just what do you enjoy I like horse racing.
I like gambling, which is now my livelihood. So that's good. Um.
And then I go out. I'm a single guy, so
(34:39):
I go out. Do you like to dance? You'd like
to go to the clubs? Do you dance? I would
say dance? No, I don't know. I'm more of like
a sit on the back of a table. And just
kind of like Bob, like a chair dancer. Like it
doesn't matter what type of music is playing. It could
be like eighties pointed sister, or like rap or like techno.
I'm dancing the same way, which is just like this. Okay.
(35:00):
As a matter, and then I want to know, this
is an important question. What's your all star five athletes?
The all star team from any different sport? My personal
Tom Brady clearly that. Then it's Michael Jordan's, Wayne Gretzky, Well,
golf's Jack Nicholas, boxing's Muhammad Ali. Baseball it's as a
(35:24):
tough one, huh. I don't know who i'd put in baseball.
Maybe let your fans put that tough. That's a tough one.
All right, So baseball, you'll get back to macy with
Tom Brady, Michael Jordan, Gretzky, Jack Nicholas, Ali. What sport
are we missing? This one sport? Oh? You want tennis?
All right? That's your all star team. You are great.
I enjoyed talking to you. I appreciate it. I know
(35:45):
you have no time and you gave me some, so
I really appreciate it. I hope we get to meet
in person one day and I hope I get to
hear about you're dating fictitious profile, but if you had
one sentence on a dating profile, Hi, I'm Dave, all right,
I like it, trade market bye, Dave. Something. I really
(36:08):
enjoyed my conversation with Dave. I thought that coming in
he was a little bit hesitant, and he probably has
so many people annoying him and asking him stupid questions,
and he probably agreed to do this, and then it
comes this morning and he's like, oh, I have to
do this podcast because that's what does happen with things
like this, and it's okay. And I really felt that
(36:29):
throughout the course of the conversation he was being asked
questions that he doesn't normally think about, you know, about
the machinations of his business, about the way that he
makes decisions, about who he is as a person, which
is really what I'm most interested in. It's not about
what happened in the headlines last week and what did
he say to someone, And people like him sometimes get
worried ahead of time, like what is she going to
try to ask me? And I just really wanted to
(36:51):
get a sense of who he is because people who
are really, really successful have many differences from one another,
and there are definitely similarities that you can peg. And
there was a lot about his trajectory that I saw
in mind which was comforting and um familiar and made
me want to kind of dig deeper. So I appreciate
(37:13):
you listening, rate, review, and subscribe. I thought Dave Portnoy
was an excellent guest, and we just keep getting the
most incredible guests because of you and your feedback. That
was really fun and different and controversial, all of which
I love, so thank you so much. Have a great day.
(37:37):
Just Be is posted by me Bethany Frankel The Real
Productions and Endeavor Content. Our managing producer is Fiona Smith,
and our producer is Stephanie Stender. Sarah Katnac is our
assistant producer, and our development Executive is Nyantre or just
Be as a production of Endeavor Content. This episode was
mixed by Sam bet. To catch more moments from the show,
(37:58):
follow us on Instagram at us Be with Bethany m
H
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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