January 20, 2022 • 36 mins
On what makes an icon and life after skating.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
What's the age limit for emojis? I find it jarring
when people in their sixties sent emojis like one random
emotion like the girl twirling and dancing, or like Yeppie
like leaping or said no you are not. I feel
like there's gotta be an age limit. I don't do
all that stuff, Like there's like a Flamenco dancer woman twirling,
like you're going going out and having let's go out
for dinner night. It's gonna be great Flamenco. No, no, no,
(00:37):
I feel like that stopped. Is that like fifty two?
A heart faced emoji? Like a heart faced emoji? I mean,
the gotta be in your early fifties. That's that's the
cut off date for that too. Like laws, like laws
become like nothing to do with laugh I'm literal, I'm
I am I laughing out loud because you be in
(01:00):
the other room and need to hear me laws ng
and what laws? What's laws? Out laughing out loud? Zuh.
I don't understand that. But I just think that people
of a certain age different. If you're a grandparent and
you're sending one of those little a gift or a meme,
a gift is like a video and a meme is
like just it says something and it's not moving. I
think the moving is better. But I a grandma or
(01:22):
like a grandma could send like the big Bear with
the big heart coming out because I love you, Like
that's grama is. But grandmas shouldn't be over emojing. In
my opinion, a prayer hands for a senior citizen is fine.
I just I feel like there should be a limit,
don't you think? Don't you think? Like certain emojis are
age appropriate and inappropriate, So sending emojis through at work
(01:45):
is fairly inappropriate, Like it's certain levels, but once in
a while it's not. It should be used sparingly. If
it's once in a while, it's nice, like it's a
nice little funny thing when it comes through people's weirdo
what's it called the like a bit? What's the big
like exaggerated person character of yourself emoji that you sent
through and someone calls you and you're like, are you
a fucking clown? Calling me? Like it's always this weird
(02:07):
like howdy dooty picture of like Peppi Longstocking coming through,
and you're like, it's very strange. I feel like it's
it's very, very very strange. And then the big thumb,
the big yellow thumb. Yeah, just hey, I'll see you
at too, the big giant yellow Okay, it's too you're
yelling things. They're just basic, like it's not like, oh
(02:29):
my god, I just licked to a telephone polls in
New York City and I don't have COVID, And then
I want the fucking thumbs up. Then I wanted Then
I want to thing an exclamation point for like, you know,
h two owes water. I don't need your deepest feelings
of positivity. It's not for us. We like to celebrate
(02:49):
with this cause for celebration. We're not interested in an
all day emoji lifestyle. That's not how we work here.
I saw what you said. I knowledge you. We see
each other. Back to Nanny Leaks the prophet, we see
each other. I'll do on a hundred and I'll do
a stop sign. That's it. So what do you think
(03:13):
about emojis as a form of communication for intelligent adults?
My guest today is Dorothy Hamill. She is an Olympic
gold medalist and women's champion figure skater. She is one
of America's most popular athletes, changing the image of a sport,
(03:33):
making a hairstyle popular long before Jennifer Aniston. She has
an icon on and off the ice. She has a
move named after her, the Hammel Camel. She's performed on Broadway.
She has performed in the Ice Capades and owned the
Ice Capades, and competed all over the world. She is
a game changer. I can't wait for you to hear
more about her life. Enjoy. Where do you live? Where
(04:04):
are you now? Right now? I'm in the Indian Wells, California,
near Palm Springs. And then we are we live in
Colorado most of the year, but we're here uh in
the wintertime because my husband is an avid golfer. So
I like the skiing in Colorado. But anyway, and you
I like the snowboarding too. Do you find that as
(04:25):
you get older you have a little bit more fear
and trepidation, hesitation or no, because you're a professional athlete. Well,
I used to be right, But I love I think
skiing is very close, not close to skating, because I
love the cold air, I love the wind. I like
you know, the you know the motion of it. So
(04:46):
I'm not really afraid of it. Um, but I also
know when I'm out of control to stop um. But skating,
you know, I can't do there. There. I have the
trepidation and the fear, but I fear of other things,
you know. But skiing is as close to skating that
I can do and not great. So you don't skate
(05:06):
at all. You can't skate now. It's just your body
is not made for it anymore. It's not made for it.
I had back surgery. I've been struggling with back problems
for years, and for two years I couldn't get off
the floor. I was in such paying with nerve uh
you know, nerve pain. And there's no rink here, so
they're building one, so maybe I'll be able to just
(05:27):
tool around on the ice and my jumping days. And
it's hard to it's really hard to admit that you
can't do it anymore. And I'm slowly realizing that that's
what I was sort of talking about. I've been snowboarding
for probably twenty five years, and I'm no Dorothy Hamile,
but I'm fairly good at it. But now that you
(05:48):
get older and I have a daughter, and that's where
the fear comes in a little bit of Wow, this
isn't feeling the same way, and I don't you know,
I don't take the chances I used to anymore. And
it's interesting. It must be interesting for you to go
back to something that you are an expert at and
have to have a different relationship with it. Yes, and
(06:08):
I haven't quite done that. But now that my back
is better, Um, you know, I hopefully like to get
back out there. But you know, snowboarding isn't anywhere. It's
much more dangerous than ice skating. But actually, at this point,
I skating is probably more dangerous for me now because
I can't do it. Yeah, do you do you feel that, um,
(06:30):
you pushed yourself too hard or what was necessary for
the sport was pushing too hard? Or you never let
your body rest, or like what is the sort of
message about being so focused and dedicated to a certain
sport and how I've spoken to so many different people
from Maria Charapova and Lindsay Vaughan and about later in
body pain and like the after the effects later, So
(06:54):
what what's the message about that? Well? The message it's
it's a good question because when we're not back in
the old days. You know, we didn't know anything about
training in sports medicine and we just didn't have access
to that. You know, this is seventies and so a
lot of falling, and nowadays they don't have they have
harnesses and things, but they do much more difficult things.
(07:17):
So I guess the message is, um, you know, when
you're young, nothing hurts. You know, we body slam and
body slam and body slam and you know you're just
you don't feel it. And then when you get to
be older, all these other things creep in, and UM,
I just I guess the messages take advantage of, you know,
(07:39):
the knowledge of everything. We didn't have any of that.
And also, I mean I loved skating. I didn't ever
want to be any place else. That was my therapy. Um.
I love music, and you know now what they do
is so different, so different. Um I could I when
I watched the Nationals last weekend and I'm just amazed
(08:02):
at what these youngsters do. So um, you know, I
think taking advantage of whatever it is, and you know
I don't. I wouldn't have known what else to do
with my life if I didn't have skating. That's so nice.
You're lucky in that way. I think, um, what, yeah,
very very how crazy that a hair cut, that your
(08:23):
hair cut was the Jennifer Aniston of of that generation
and you still do you wear this haircut because this
is the best haircut that's ever looked good on you,
or because it is the Dorothy hammelet and your Dorothy hammelet,
or you know what what it's a little different. But
I've grown my hair out a couple of times, and
it is not pretty. My mom was right. I am
not a long haired person. Even if I you know,
(08:46):
put it in a ponytail, I just it didn't suit me.
So I just like it easily easy, and it's not
quite the same look how gray it is. Anyway, it's
pretty healthy. It looks pretty good to me, And it's
just crazy that that was was that to have out
of annoyed You like to be known for a haircut
when you're in a you know, an Olympic star. Not really,
because I struggled with getting somebody who could really cut
(09:09):
short hair, because my hair is not easy to cut,
you know, this way in that way, but at least
it's straight. Um, And so I struggled with trying to
find a good haircut. And the week I was going
off to the Olympics, I tried to get an appointment
with this this very well known at the time hair
hairstylist in the fashion world. And my father said, you know,
(09:31):
Dorothy's coming in and she loved it. If Suga what
was his was his name, and if you could cut
her hair. So he stayed and he cut my hair,
and you know, he asked me what the function would
be and I said, well, you know, when I turned forward,
I don't, you know, to want it to be in
my eyes and anyway, so he cut it interested. I
had nothing to do with it. I had pretty much
(09:51):
short hair in my whole life, you know, the old
pixie cut things. So I've just I've kept it short.
But it's interesting that you had said the functionality of
how you wanted the hairstyle to go to function for
the sport, which is so so interesting, and that that
exactly happened for different reasons, people were watching you and
the hair was going that's that, I know. That's an
(10:12):
That's a very interesting story. The craziest stuff that goes on.
What about the business of skating? What you were a
(10:33):
young child that just got hooked, kept going, loved it
so much, and you were making seven figures long before
anybody was making seven figures. I mean you gotta paid.
You get paid a million dollar deal for an endorsement
or something early on. I mean that's a long time ago. Yeah,
(10:53):
it wasn't quite that. I think over the years, three
or four years, it was okay. Yeah. So I wanted
to know if you felt that it was a business,
or if you just thought you were doing you liked
and then felt that it was corrupt around you or
people had different or did you have an instinct about
it that it is a business and there's a way
to turn this into something. So what was your relationship
(11:13):
to it growing up in it and then learning how
to monetize it? Did you not? Did you miss many
opportunities or did you grab them all? I didn't grab
them all. You know. When I we had to turn
professional because we were amateurs, and I always I didn't
love competitions and we only have a few competitions a year. Um,
so I loved skating exhibitions. So when I was able
(11:34):
to turn pro and make money, um, I was so
thrilled because I got to, you know, tour in ice
capades and I toured and I loved it, but I
didn't really think of it as a business. And it
wasn't until later on, you know, when there were not
as many shows to skate in that you know, branching
out into skating shows in theaters. Um, so I never
(11:57):
looked at it as a business. I didn't wasn't smart
the way you are. I just you know, I was
a shy kid, and I like to twirl, and I
like music and twirling, and you know I could be
by myself. I was very shy and so um you know,
I was you know, I didn't do the best. I
didn't make the best decisions and you know, getting into
(12:19):
managers that sort of. I don't want to say take
advantage because I was the one who was skating, but
you know I didn't. I wasn't smart. I didn't really
have people to you know, advise me well. But but
you know I made some money, but I also it
was pretty dumb and not really knowing how to you know,
(12:42):
hang on to it. You know, I was single, no family,
so it was you know, traveling on the road, living
out of a suitcase all the time. Um, you know,
you sort of you know I was. I loved jewelry,
so I buy jewelry because you didn't have to pack
in the suitcase. So those kinds of things. But you know,
eventually when I learned that it wasn't, you know, the
(13:05):
smartest way to take care of myself at an older age.
You know, I did learn later in life, but I
wasn't smart the way you are. And you're such an
amazing businesswoman as well as talent. Now it's I've admired
you for all of that, so yeah, I appreciate that.
It's not Listen, I've made so many mistakes. I've made
multiple million dollar mistakes, and it's uh, at least for you,
(13:29):
it's better to make them when you were younger, I
say to people in the beginning of business, because as
the stakes get higher, it gets worse later. So you
got older, you were married, and you had some financial difficulties,
right you, you had like I did. And what was
the biggest mistake that you made? I mean, you just
touched on a bit, not knowing who to trust, etcetera.
(13:50):
But was it just spending or was it not looking
at the whole board, like what we're not saving? What
was it effectively? Well, when I got into the problem. Uh,
we ex husband, um and I were We owned ice
Capades for a while, and there was a lot of
things that was you know, the timing people weren't interested
in seeing ice Capades anymore, and you know, we tried
(14:13):
to reinvent the show, and so that was a problem
because our financial partner, you know, I was just you
know trying to you know, hire set designers and lighting
designers and the you know, the trucking and all that stuff,
which I really had no business, you know, trying to
put my two cents in, and it was just way
(14:34):
bigger than I could imagine. And our financial partner got
into problems. So the people were coming after me to
pay those bills, you know, and I was yes, and
I did. I um, you know, I started paying all
the hotels for the skaters and everything, and I you know, personally,
I didn't have that kind of money. And so when
(14:55):
our financial partners said, you know, I need somebody to
buy Bias out, we were sort of stuck with having
to do that. And I didn't want to ditch my skaters,
you know, my my past and my my crew and
my same mind. But you know, we were all a
family and they were such amazing people. So you know,
(15:15):
I tried to bail out the company as long as
I could, until you know, somebody was able to purchase it.
And it was so sad and so emotional because you know,
I loved the skating, I love the production part of it.
Um So that's kind of where it all went. And
then I, you know, then I got a divorce, and
that was all sort of the continuation of the problem. Yeah,
(15:37):
more financial despair. If it sounds like you got into
something that was a great idea, but often when people
get into business, um, well, two things happened. One, you
have to know what you're good at, I know what
you're not good at, and have other people do the
things that they're good at and accept what you aren't.
But second of all, you have to look at it
like a relationship where you have to think about what
(15:59):
if everything goes wrong? Like people don't want to look
at the downside of things, and it's not that romantic
and it's not that sexy. And I've made that mistake,
believe me, as big as as big as your bankruptcy situation.
I got into a very entangled, almost decade long divorce
and you just don't think in the beginning of if
(16:20):
the ship goes sideways, you know absolutely you're so right,
And you know, I mean when you're performing eight shows
a week or thirteen shows a week, and you know,
like the snow machine wasn't working, so you know, all
the technical stuff I couldn't. I just couldn't do it all.
And I didn't have, you know, the right business people
(16:41):
behind me to pick up and do the things that
they're good at, which you're absolutely right. So you got
sucked under the what the tide sucked you under for
a minute? Um, And but you under you've got as
a byproduct of growing up in that business. And truthfully,
(17:01):
you know I could I'm the perfect person to to
remember this because the only names I ever remember hearing
about in in sports my entire childhood for the most part,
in females Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill and then Mary lou
Retten later and um, why am I having a blank
about the one who wore the vera whang outfits that
in the movie with and Nancy Carmen's later, But as
(17:25):
a kid as a child, it was Peggy Flaming and
Dorothy Hamile and that was you know, and that sport
was massive then, and I may just be perceiving it
differently because we're not in an Olympic year, but it
just seemed like the biggest deal when I was a kid.
Maybe I was a different target audience, but that was huge.
And I feel like you definitely were part of branding
a sport because if you're the name that jumps off
(17:46):
the page for my entire childhood and you're the you're
you have to be, you have to have had that
thing that brand did a sport. I mean, it's like
the way Tiger Woods branded golf for a long time.
So I feel like it's you are. Definitely, we're definitely
part of a brand machine. Whether you realize it or not. Well, well,
we didn't look at brands then, you know, and right
(18:09):
no one said brand. Yeah yeah, and we were you know,
we were amateurs. That skating was there's three there were
three television stations, you know, ABC, NBC, CBS. We didn't
even have video tapes, you know, where we were. Our
music was on a cassette tape. You know. It was
very uh simple. I don't know, I don't know how
these youngsters today with all the social media it's got
(18:32):
to be. I could never do that, you just it
would kill me. It is absolutely and emotional. I mean
I if I read one thing that's not good, it
ruins my my day or my week, and so I
would never be able to take that kind of criticism. Yeah,
it's a different it's a different landscape and different things
(18:54):
are important. And you described it as simple, would you
want this life or any adjacent life for your daughter?
Is it? Is it too much pressure? Is it appropriate?
When I was doing that show Skating with the Stars,
which is different than what you were doing. There's figure skating,
and then what was I doing couple skating? I was
doing something different like the two pairs dance pair dance.
(19:16):
Since like, yeah, okay, so I think it's dance. It's
like a different category, right, it is a little bit,
but still skating, still skating. But there were some girls
there that said that that the process is to grow
up and it is is wretched because I had a
baby and I thought, you know, is that something that
she might want to do? And they thought, hell no,
it's horrible. They thought it is just his cutthroat is competitive,
(19:40):
it is brutal, and they just thought it was terrible. Yeah,
I think it was for some people in those days.
I guess it maybe still now, probably still now. But
I never encourage my daughter. You know, if she was
at the rink, she'd be skating. But it was something
I loved and I wasn't going to push that on her.
And um, at one point she said, Mom, I want
(20:01):
to take some skating lessons, and UM, I said okay,
and so I signed her up. This is after I
had more or less up touring, and UM, you know,
I sit on the side and by my by my fingers,
thinking this is not the way to teach her, you know. So,
but it didn't matter because I knew she wasn't going
to go anywhere. I mean, you know, it's just it
(20:24):
wasn't her thing. It wasn't her thing. It wasn't her thing.
And you were bosso biting your song saying please don't
let it be her thing. But if it is, I'll
have to go with it, as as every parent you know.
And then, but that was interesting to read about you
because it's such I have a friend whose daughter found
a question riding, and that seems to be something that
you really have to present them with because it's involves
(20:45):
horses and going somewhere in all the wardrobe. But she
said her daughter just threw friends, found it and got
the bug. So it wasn't that the mother wanted this
at all, and nor did she pressure the child. And
it sounds like you had no pressure. Wasn't even in
your family. You just loved it. You hit what's fun is?
I was that way about roller skating, and my mother
used to say, you're never going to go anywhere with
roller skating. They don't have roller skating in the Olympics,
(21:06):
like not being well kind of, you know, maybe, but
I spent hour and I tell you, I would go
to the roller rink at nine in the morning and
I would leave at nine thirty at night. So I
was an amazing roller skater, but to no end even
to want roller skating lessons. And you know, I used
to not understand why I wouldn't be in the Olympics.
But the point is, I was like you, No one
told me to like roller skating. I just loved it.
(21:27):
But so I guess the answer is you want to
lead your kids to find the things that they love,
but there's no need to force them because they all
know themselves that they love it from your perspective, absolutely,
And my parents always tried to find something that interested.
But I have a brother and a sister, and so skating.
I was the youngest, and I was not the brightest,
(21:50):
uh student, and and I was really shy, and you know,
I like to sing and dance, but I really couldn't.
Don't have a voice to sing, and really not a
body for a dancer. And so I skating. It was
like you my parents it was a great babysitter for
them too. They dropped me off at nine alf Corny
on the weekends and I we skated in public sessions
(22:11):
because the same sessions ten to twelve thirty, two to
two to three thirty three to five thirty seven to
nine thirty that's funny. So and that was just what
I love to do. And then it got week days
before school and after school, and my god, bless my mother.
She drove me, you know, into New York from Connecticut
(22:32):
and over to you know New Jersey, you know, places
that were at least an hour sometimes more to skate.
So but she knew that that was that was sort
of where I was comfortable. Never really dreamt that I
could actually get a job after. You know, it's amazing
turning pro Yeah, I never thought. I haven't thought about
this for years. That was my happiest time. I had
(22:54):
a lot of crazy stuff going on in my house,
but to just go, like you said, the babies, to
just get to the roller and knew people there and
you had your own little world and you some people
were better than others, and you ran your own little show.
And you know, I remember it was we were into
disco music, which I was at a school called St. Agnes.
It was a Catholic school and they were all it was.
(23:17):
The music was older, but they were into the doors
and rock and roll, and it was sort of like
a secret life that I had, being into disco and
this roller rink. So I left that world and just
went into this other world where I had different friends
and different and learned about music, and you know, it
was freeing. It's funny that you say that, because I
just reading about you. It just clicked right now. And
(23:38):
we want that for our kids, for them to just
lose themselves in something. You know, my daughter into art
and show. But that's a nice thing to have your kids.
How old is your daughter? My daughter's eleven, she's in
sixth grade. And I took um a room in my
house that looks like a boiler room. It's really just
the bowels of the house. And I saw that it
had plumbing, and I said, uh, to my team, I
(23:59):
want to make this into an art room for her.
And they thought, it's Scott, what do you mean. This
is not a room. This is like a plumbing room,
you know, an electric electrical room. I said, no, we'll
get a nice lop sync. She can paint the walls,
we can put trolleys in here, and she can just
do what she wants because it's got a lot of space.
She was the other day, she was on a pottery wheel.
That was just loving the freedom of my daughter as
(24:19):
an artist doing pottery. It was like so freeing, it
was I was jealous, Like she has her own thing.
She spends her life in this dungeon in this house.
It's so funny. That's all the only patient wants to be.
So that's her ice skating rink. That's so great though,
you know, and an art as an artist, you really
want your surroundings to be comfortable that I don't have
to be glamorous. So yeah, she's at home there. That's
(24:41):
so cool. She's a nice girl. So what about relationships? Uh,
and the start of your life and relationships with with
that sort of cocoon that you were in and this
world with this structure, in these rules and responsibility, and
then how do you include a part warner into that
when you're professional at it or so it's such a
(25:02):
competitive person, how do you do how do you navigate that?
And I know you've we've all made mistakes, and so
I know you've made mistakes and then had some triumph.
So what's that figure eight? Like a lot of long
distance relationships, some good, some not so good. But as
you probably know that long distance relationships, you know, don't
(25:23):
really work. They're not easy. And so traveling and touring
all the time it was it wasn't Yeah, it was
not ideal, but you know, I was never in one
place long enough, So you don't really learn to have
a relationship so to speak, or you know, a partnership,
and you're not working on that skill as a human being.
(25:45):
That's what it takes to work at a relationship and
be a partner. So then you make the mistake and
then you do it the next time better. You're not
getting that much experience because you're not doing it that
much exactly exactly, so um, you know, and as a
as a kid, I didn't have the My parents didn't
have the best relationship either, um and so it didn't
have necessarily good role models. Not that I don't love them,
(26:07):
and they were, you know, but their relationship just wasn't great.
And then um, and then so touring, you know, you
just I had boyfriends here and there, but you know
a lot of telephone calls at night after the show
at eleven o'clock. So it was just didn't didn't work
for me. You know, I write my first husband, I
(26:29):
loved him dearly, but you know it was you know,
when the when the cats were or if I was
the cat. You know, there are things probably that went
on that I didn't know about. So anyway, Um, and
then my second I was kind of on the rebound
(26:51):
from my first marriage, and my daughter's father was not
unlike my first husband. UM, and I think I just
wanted so much the romance and you know, a partnership
and love and and that's kind of at the end
of that, at the end of the ice capad, it's
(27:12):
that whole um process selling the company. So I struggled
with the divorce there and everything else that was going on,
and you know, filed personal bankruptcy because you know, I
put my own personal money into Ice Capades try to
save it. And so the divorce happened. Then I had
(27:35):
to go back to work because I had to pay
child support. So I moved back from the California area
to Baltimore because my coaches and choreographers were there, and
sort of started over again. You really started over, like
you had to just be pretty much figure out how
to pay your bills and and and wow, yeah, that's
that's amazing. And did you really come out on the
(27:58):
other side. Did you figure it out? I did. I did.
I was very lucky to have, you know, be able
to still have a job, and um, it wasn't It
was wonderful. And I got to tour with all these
amazing skaters, you know, Michelle Kwan and Brian Boitano and
you know, all the best of the best um at
(28:19):
those and even Nancy Kerrigan. So you know, I was
definitely the old lady in that tour. But it was
wonderful and it was simple, and I didn't simple. I
didn't have to you know, worry about the other skaters
and paying the bills and are the owner of that
show and the producer, Tommy Collins was just a divine
man and wherever he is right now. But yeah, so
(28:41):
I was lucky, you know, to be able to do
that and then to skate in some other theater productions
and skating theater productions. Who is your favorite skater to watch?
(29:05):
And it may not necessarily mean score wise, or it
could be the prettiest skater or both or you know,
maybe different buckets, competitive or just elegance on the ice. Gosh, Well,
the young lady, the woman that I loved growing up
was a Janet Lynn and she was just so incredible.
She was powerful and she just floated over the ice,
(29:26):
but she was strong and um so I really admired her.
She was in between Peggy Fleming and my so she
was right in the in the middle. So that growing up,
she was such an inspiration. Not that Peggy wasn't, but
Peggy was so elegant and graceful. I could never sort of,
you know, be that, Oh it wasn't. I mean, you
(29:47):
felt the realistic aspiration from me. Yeah, Well, but it's
interesting that you were so successful even though you thought
that she was at a different level. She just filled
a different void for people. But you, you, you the
room for everybody, is what I'm saying. You succeeded and
excelled in a totally different way, even though in your
mind you never was as good as her. That was
(30:08):
from what you're describing. But to the world you were
it was just different. Different. Yeah, it was different. And I,
you know, I was would look up to somebody that
I felt that I could, Um, that wasn't unrealistic because
I would never be aspired to baby. And then later on, well,
I watched the skating last weekend on Nationals and these youngsters,
(30:29):
I mean I could watch them all all day because
there maybe because the pandemic, maybe they're all, you know,
skating more and not competing as much. They're just amazing
athletes and the things they're doing the difficulty is outstanding.
So so that was really fun. So I could watch
a lot of those skaters. Those are I mean, I
(30:51):
could still watch people like well John Curry all all
of these people are in the big skating rink in
the sky, I think. But um, there's some that have
just mastered the sports so well that you that's so nice.
It's an amazing thing to have been part of, I
have to say. And so with that, I'll ask you
(31:11):
of your career, not your life. What is your rose
and what is your thorn? Sounds like you described your thorn,
but it might not be like you can Your thorn
could be different. No, I think the thorn was just
the whole, you know, the whole having to sell ice
capades and and you know, divorce and bankruptcy. That was
all thorn. Yeah. And the rose, I mean I think
(31:36):
the rose is just what I've the opportunities I've had,
people I've met, not necessarily skating, I mean, skating is
always the sort of the entry point, um, you know,
the dirt, yeah, the grassroots, you know, it's just always
been my savior skating. Um. So like just the wonderful
(32:00):
experiences and people have been able to meet and things, Um,
those are sort of the highlights, I guess. So you've
had a great career And do you care about age
or vanity or relevance, like do you get recognized? Let
do you still feel relevant? You know? How does that do?
How does that whole? What's your relationship with that part?
(32:21):
Of it, the same part of it, um, the same
part was really hard in the beginning. Now, I'm old people,
you know, if they look at my idea or something
that that's a familiar name. But most but most people
are young people don't, which is which is fine? Relevance,
I don't know, I'm I don't really not relevant and
(32:44):
I don't think to me, you are. I called you
to be on this podcast for reason that you're not
so old, you know, but I'm not so young. But
I'm older. I'm a bit older than you are. But
that's okay. I think you look great. You look young,
and you feel young, and you are relevant to me.
So I just curious about that, you know, part of
your life. I do miss, you know, not having you know,
(33:06):
the young skin. I hate the gray eyelashes and the
gray everything else and the sallow skin and things jiggle
a lot more, you know, when you're young and you're
fit either, oh you know, Well I didn't think I
was fit then, but I know i'm not now. So
that's hard to that's hard to accept. Yeah, and do
(33:30):
you work on that or do not? You you don't
care that much? I mean, do you care about plastic
surgery and botox and procedures and working out like crazy
or any of that stuff. I do care about it.
For the last couple of years, I haven't been able
to exercise because of you know, my back issues. I
mean I couldn't even stand on my right leg so
and I was in such pain. But so that I
(33:52):
care about. But I absolutely think about you know, I'm
thinking what to do, when is the time? What someone's
to tell Yeah, I'll tell you. I think you I
was you look really fresh and really young. I swear
to God, and I would tell you do you do?
You don't and sometimes I think you look amazing. Well,
thank you. But I was talking to Christopher Buckle, this
(34:12):
you know, famous makeup artist this morning. I was just
texting him because he's a friend, and I said, one day,
if I need to do something, you'll tell me, he said,
I because he told someone else that you know, in
common when it was time for them. But some people
we'll just grow old gracefully, myself possibly included, because I
don't want to look like an alien. That's scarier than
looking a little old, like looking like a freak alien.
(34:34):
That's not my type of brand of being. Like, that's
not for me. Yep, I'm with you and that one.
So but so you look good. You look good, so
thank you. You look fabulous. Thank you. It's so nice
to meet you, and thank you for doing this. I'm
sure you were curious about what this would even be
because it's you know, no, I was listening to a
few of your podcasts, so I'm a total fan. And
(34:57):
now I know because I'm not I don't know the
social me media stuff well so um, but I certainly
know you from all the wonderful things you've done and
going through the grocery store or the liquor store seeing
your skinny girl, I'm envious. Well that's humbling, humbling to me,
it's wonderful. Oh, thank you. Well, now we know each other,
(35:18):
so our paths will cross one day maybe we'll be
skiing or ice skating near each other. So so nice
to meet you, and I wish you the best of everything.
Thank you you too, and thanks for having me. It
was fun, of course, yeah, really fun. Have a great day,
my dear. All right, take care. That was Dorothy Hamill,
(35:38):
someone who was a household name when I was a kid.
Wheaties box, I'm sure, and just she was an Olympic
figure skater, but one of the only ones that really
popped off, I mean Peggy Fleming and then Dorothy Hamill,
and later it was Nancy Kerrigan in my life that
just really was so commercial and America, a sweetheart and
(36:01):
loved and um and I just in doing this podcast,
I'll just think about people who I think I would
want to have an interesting conversation with, people who have
been a part of something or built something, done something interesting.
I mean, there was a Dorothy Hamill haircut and it
was named after her. No smaller and maybe even bigger
than Jennifer Aniston haircut. I mean it was a big
(36:22):
damn deal. There was this shorter sort of bowl I
had it anyway. She was absolutely lovely. She's been through
the wringer with body pain, with financial ruin effectively and
rebuilding and so negative experiences with relationships, so it's probably
comforting for people to hear that other people are going
(36:43):
through what they're going through. I mean, even wildly successful
famous Olympic athletes. So that was Dorothy Hamill, and I
was really excited to speak to her. Really nice conversation
and what a lovely person.
What's the age limit for emojis? I find it jarring
when people in their sixties sent emojis like one random
emotion like the girl twirling and dancing, or like Yeppie
like leaping or said no you are not. I feel
like there's gotta be an age limit. I don't do
all that stuff, Like there's like a Flamenco dancer woman twirling,
like you're going going out and having let's go out
for dinner night. It's gonna be great Flamenco. No, no, no,
(00:37):
I feel like that stopped. Is that like fifty two?
A heart faced emoji? Like a heart faced emoji? I mean,
the gotta be in your early fifties. That's that's the
cut off date for that too. Like laws, like laws
become like nothing to do with laugh I'm literal, I'm
I am I laughing out loud because you be in
(01:00):
the other room and need to hear me laws ng
and what laws? What's laws? Out laughing out loud? Zuh.
I don't understand that. But I just think that people
of a certain age different. If you're a grandparent and
you're sending one of those little a gift or a meme,
a gift is like a video and a meme is
like just it says something and it's not moving. I
think the moving is better. But I a grandma or
(01:22):
like a grandma could send like the big Bear with
the big heart coming out because I love you, Like
that's grama is. But grandmas shouldn't be over emojing. In
my opinion, a prayer hands for a senior citizen is fine.
I just I feel like there should be a limit,
don't you think? Don't you think? Like certain emojis are
age appropriate and inappropriate, So sending emojis through at work
(01:45):
is fairly inappropriate, Like it's certain levels, but once in
a while it's not. It should be used sparingly. If
it's once in a while, it's nice, like it's a
nice little funny thing when it comes through people's weirdo
what's it called the like a bit? What's the big
like exaggerated person character of yourself emoji that you sent
through and someone calls you and you're like, are you
a fucking clown? Calling me? Like it's always this weird
(02:07):
like howdy dooty picture of like Peppi Longstocking coming through,
and you're like, it's very strange. I feel like it's
it's very, very very strange. And then the big thumb,
the big yellow thumb. Yeah, just hey, I'll see you
at too, the big giant yellow Okay, it's too you're
yelling things. They're just basic, like it's not like, oh
(02:29):
my god, I just licked to a telephone polls in
New York City and I don't have COVID, And then
I want the fucking thumbs up. Then I wanted Then
I want to thing an exclamation point for like, you know,
h two owes water. I don't need your deepest feelings
of positivity. It's not for us. We like to celebrate
(02:49):
with this cause for celebration. We're not interested in an
all day emoji lifestyle. That's not how we work here.
I saw what you said. I knowledge you. We see
each other. Back to Nanny Leaks the prophet, we see
each other. I'll do on a hundred and I'll do
a stop sign. That's it. So what do you think
(03:13):
about emojis as a form of communication for intelligent adults?
My guest today is Dorothy Hamill. She is an Olympic
gold medalist and women's champion figure skater. She is one
of America's most popular athletes, changing the image of a sport,
(03:33):
making a hairstyle popular long before Jennifer Aniston. She has
an icon on and off the ice. She has a
move named after her, the Hammel Camel. She's performed on Broadway.
She has performed in the Ice Capades and owned the
Ice Capades, and competed all over the world. She is
a game changer. I can't wait for you to hear
more about her life. Enjoy. Where do you live? Where
(04:04):
are you now? Right now? I'm in the Indian Wells, California,
near Palm Springs. And then we are we live in
Colorado most of the year, but we're here uh in
the wintertime because my husband is an avid golfer. So
I like the skiing in Colorado. But anyway, and you
I like the snowboarding too. Do you find that as
(04:25):
you get older you have a little bit more fear
and trepidation, hesitation or no, because you're a professional athlete. Well,
I used to be right, But I love I think
skiing is very close, not close to skating, because I
love the cold air, I love the wind. I like
you know, the you know the motion of it. So
(04:46):
I'm not really afraid of it. Um, but I also
know when I'm out of control to stop um. But skating,
you know, I can't do there. There. I have the
trepidation and the fear, but I fear of other things,
you know. But skiing is as close to skating that
I can do and not great. So you don't skate
(05:06):
at all. You can't skate now. It's just your body
is not made for it anymore. It's not made for it.
I had back surgery. I've been struggling with back problems
for years, and for two years I couldn't get off
the floor. I was in such paying with nerve uh
you know, nerve pain. And there's no rink here, so
they're building one, so maybe I'll be able to just
(05:27):
tool around on the ice and my jumping days. And
it's hard to it's really hard to admit that you
can't do it anymore. And I'm slowly realizing that that's
what I was sort of talking about. I've been snowboarding
for probably twenty five years, and I'm no Dorothy Hamile,
but I'm fairly good at it. But now that you
(05:48):
get older and I have a daughter, and that's where
the fear comes in a little bit of Wow, this
isn't feeling the same way, and I don't you know,
I don't take the chances I used to anymore. And
it's interesting. It must be interesting for you to go
back to something that you are an expert at and
have to have a different relationship with it. Yes, and
(06:08):
I haven't quite done that. But now that my back
is better, Um, you know, I hopefully like to get
back out there. But you know, snowboarding isn't anywhere. It's
much more dangerous than ice skating. But actually, at this point,
I skating is probably more dangerous for me now because
I can't do it. Yeah, do you do you feel that, um,
(06:30):
you pushed yourself too hard or what was necessary for
the sport was pushing too hard? Or you never let
your body rest, or like what is the sort of
message about being so focused and dedicated to a certain
sport and how I've spoken to so many different people
from Maria Charapova and Lindsay Vaughan and about later in
body pain and like the after the effects later, So
(06:54):
what what's the message about that? Well? The message it's
it's a good question because when we're not back in
the old days. You know, we didn't know anything about
training in sports medicine and we just didn't have access
to that. You know, this is seventies and so a
lot of falling, and nowadays they don't have they have
harnesses and things, but they do much more difficult things.
(07:17):
So I guess the message is, um, you know, when
you're young, nothing hurts. You know, we body slam and
body slam and body slam and you know you're just
you don't feel it. And then when you get to
be older, all these other things creep in, and UM,
I just I guess the messages take advantage of, you know,
(07:39):
the knowledge of everything. We didn't have any of that.
And also, I mean I loved skating. I didn't ever
want to be any place else. That was my therapy. Um.
I love music, and you know now what they do
is so different, so different. Um I could I when
I watched the Nationals last weekend and I'm just amazed
(08:02):
at what these youngsters do. So um, you know, I
think taking advantage of whatever it is, and you know
I don't. I wouldn't have known what else to do
with my life if I didn't have skating. That's so nice.
You're lucky in that way. I think, um, what, yeah,
very very how crazy that a hair cut, that your
(08:23):
hair cut was the Jennifer Aniston of of that generation
and you still do you wear this haircut because this
is the best haircut that's ever looked good on you,
or because it is the Dorothy hammelet and your Dorothy hammelet,
or you know what what it's a little different. But
I've grown my hair out a couple of times, and
it is not pretty. My mom was right. I am
not a long haired person. Even if I you know,
(08:46):
put it in a ponytail, I just it didn't suit me.
So I just like it easily easy, and it's not
quite the same look how gray it is. Anyway, it's
pretty healthy. It looks pretty good to me, And it's
just crazy that that was was that to have out
of annoyed You like to be known for a haircut
when you're in a you know, an Olympic star. Not really,
because I struggled with getting somebody who could really cut
(09:09):
short hair, because my hair is not easy to cut,
you know, this way in that way, but at least
it's straight. Um, And so I struggled with trying to
find a good haircut. And the week I was going
off to the Olympics, I tried to get an appointment
with this this very well known at the time hair
hairstylist in the fashion world. And my father said, you know,
(09:31):
Dorothy's coming in and she loved it. If Suga what
was his was his name, and if you could cut
her hair. So he stayed and he cut my hair,
and you know, he asked me what the function would
be and I said, well, you know, when I turned forward,
I don't, you know, to want it to be in
my eyes and anyway, so he cut it interested. I
had nothing to do with it. I had pretty much
(09:51):
short hair in my whole life, you know, the old
pixie cut things. So I've just I've kept it short.
But it's interesting that you had said the functionality of
how you wanted the hairstyle to go to function for
the sport, which is so so interesting, and that that
exactly happened for different reasons, people were watching you and
the hair was going that's that, I know. That's an
(10:12):
That's a very interesting story. The craziest stuff that goes on.
What about the business of skating? What you were a
(10:33):
young child that just got hooked, kept going, loved it
so much, and you were making seven figures long before
anybody was making seven figures. I mean you gotta paid.
You get paid a million dollar deal for an endorsement
or something early on. I mean that's a long time ago. Yeah,
(10:53):
it wasn't quite that. I think over the years, three
or four years, it was okay. Yeah. So I wanted
to know if you felt that it was a business,
or if you just thought you were doing you liked
and then felt that it was corrupt around you or
people had different or did you have an instinct about
it that it is a business and there's a way
to turn this into something. So what was your relationship
(11:13):
to it growing up in it and then learning how
to monetize it? Did you not? Did you miss many
opportunities or did you grab them all? I didn't grab
them all. You know. When I we had to turn
professional because we were amateurs, and I always I didn't
love competitions and we only have a few competitions a year. Um,
so I loved skating exhibitions. So when I was able
(11:34):
to turn pro and make money, um, I was so
thrilled because I got to, you know, tour in ice
capades and I toured and I loved it, but I
didn't really think of it as a business. And it
wasn't until later on, you know, when there were not
as many shows to skate in that you know, branching
out into skating shows in theaters. Um, so I never
(11:57):
looked at it as a business. I didn't wasn't smart
the way you are. I just you know, I was
a shy kid, and I like to twirl, and I
like music and twirling, and you know I could be
by myself. I was very shy and so um you know,
I was you know, I didn't do the best. I
didn't make the best decisions and you know, getting into
(12:19):
managers that sort of. I don't want to say take
advantage because I was the one who was skating, but
you know I didn't. I wasn't smart. I didn't really
have people to you know, advise me well. But but
you know I made some money, but I also it
was pretty dumb and not really knowing how to you know,
(12:42):
hang on to it. You know, I was single, no family,
so it was you know, traveling on the road, living
out of a suitcase all the time. Um, you know,
you sort of you know I was. I loved jewelry,
so I buy jewelry because you didn't have to pack
in the suitcase. So those kinds of things. But you know,
eventually when I learned that it wasn't, you know, the
(13:05):
smartest way to take care of myself at an older age.
You know, I did learn later in life, but I
wasn't smart the way you are. And you're such an
amazing businesswoman as well as talent. Now it's I've admired
you for all of that, so yeah, I appreciate that.
It's not Listen, I've made so many mistakes. I've made
multiple million dollar mistakes, and it's uh, at least for you,
(13:29):
it's better to make them when you were younger, I
say to people in the beginning of business, because as
the stakes get higher, it gets worse later. So you
got older, you were married, and you had some financial difficulties,
right you, you had like I did. And what was
the biggest mistake that you made? I mean, you just
touched on a bit, not knowing who to trust, etcetera.
(13:50):
But was it just spending or was it not looking
at the whole board, like what we're not saving? What
was it effectively? Well, when I got into the problem. Uh,
we ex husband, um and I were We owned ice
Capades for a while, and there was a lot of
things that was you know, the timing people weren't interested
in seeing ice Capades anymore, and you know, we tried
(14:13):
to reinvent the show, and so that was a problem
because our financial partner, you know, I was just you
know trying to you know, hire set designers and lighting
designers and the you know, the trucking and all that stuff,
which I really had no business, you know, trying to
put my two cents in, and it was just way
(14:34):
bigger than I could imagine. And our financial partner got
into problems. So the people were coming after me to
pay those bills, you know, and I was yes, and
I did. I um, you know, I started paying all
the hotels for the skaters and everything, and I you know, personally,
I didn't have that kind of money. And so when
(14:55):
our financial partners said, you know, I need somebody to
buy Bias out, we were sort of stuck with having
to do that. And I didn't want to ditch my skaters,
you know, my my past and my my crew and
my same mind. But you know, we were all a
family and they were such amazing people. So you know,
(15:15):
I tried to bail out the company as long as
I could, until you know, somebody was able to purchase it.
And it was so sad and so emotional because you know,
I loved the skating, I love the production part of it.
Um So that's kind of where it all went. And
then I, you know, then I got a divorce, and
that was all sort of the continuation of the problem. Yeah,
(15:37):
more financial despair. If it sounds like you got into
something that was a great idea, but often when people
get into business, um, well, two things happened. One, you
have to know what you're good at, I know what
you're not good at, and have other people do the
things that they're good at and accept what you aren't.
But second of all, you have to look at it
like a relationship where you have to think about what
(15:59):
if everything goes wrong? Like people don't want to look
at the downside of things, and it's not that romantic
and it's not that sexy. And I've made that mistake,
believe me, as big as as big as your bankruptcy situation.
I got into a very entangled, almost decade long divorce
and you just don't think in the beginning of if
(16:20):
the ship goes sideways, you know absolutely you're so right,
And you know, I mean when you're performing eight shows
a week or thirteen shows a week, and you know,
like the snow machine wasn't working, so you know, all
the technical stuff I couldn't. I just couldn't do it all.
And I didn't have, you know, the right business people
(16:41):
behind me to pick up and do the things that
they're good at, which you're absolutely right. So you got
sucked under the what the tide sucked you under for
a minute? Um, And but you under you've got as
a byproduct of growing up in that business. And truthfully,
(17:01):
you know I could I'm the perfect person to to
remember this because the only names I ever remember hearing
about in in sports my entire childhood for the most part,
in females Peggy Fleming, Dorothy Hamill and then Mary lou
Retten later and um, why am I having a blank
about the one who wore the vera whang outfits that
in the movie with and Nancy Carmen's later, But as
(17:25):
a kid as a child, it was Peggy Flaming and
Dorothy Hamile and that was you know, and that sport
was massive then, and I may just be perceiving it
differently because we're not in an Olympic year, but it
just seemed like the biggest deal when I was a kid.
Maybe I was a different target audience, but that was huge.
And I feel like you definitely were part of branding
a sport because if you're the name that jumps off
(17:46):
the page for my entire childhood and you're the you're
you have to be, you have to have had that
thing that brand did a sport. I mean, it's like
the way Tiger Woods branded golf for a long time.
So I feel like it's you are. Definitely, we're definitely
part of a brand machine. Whether you realize it or not. Well, well,
we didn't look at brands then, you know, and right
(18:09):
no one said brand. Yeah yeah, and we were you know,
we were amateurs. That skating was there's three there were
three television stations, you know, ABC, NBC, CBS. We didn't
even have video tapes, you know, where we were. Our
music was on a cassette tape. You know. It was
very uh simple. I don't know, I don't know how
these youngsters today with all the social media it's got
(18:32):
to be. I could never do that, you just it
would kill me. It is absolutely and emotional. I mean
I if I read one thing that's not good, it
ruins my my day or my week, and so I
would never be able to take that kind of criticism. Yeah,
it's a different it's a different landscape and different things
(18:54):
are important. And you described it as simple, would you
want this life or any adjacent life for your daughter?
Is it? Is it too much pressure? Is it appropriate?
When I was doing that show Skating with the Stars,
which is different than what you were doing. There's figure skating,
and then what was I doing couple skating? I was
doing something different like the two pairs dance pair dance.
(19:16):
Since like, yeah, okay, so I think it's dance. It's
like a different category, right, it is a little bit,
but still skating, still skating. But there were some girls
there that said that that the process is to grow
up and it is is wretched because I had a
baby and I thought, you know, is that something that
she might want to do? And they thought, hell no,
it's horrible. They thought it is just his cutthroat is competitive,
(19:40):
it is brutal, and they just thought it was terrible. Yeah,
I think it was for some people in those days.
I guess it maybe still now, probably still now. But
I never encourage my daughter. You know, if she was
at the rink, she'd be skating. But it was something
I loved and I wasn't going to push that on her.
And um, at one point she said, Mom, I want
(20:01):
to take some skating lessons, and UM, I said okay,
and so I signed her up. This is after I
had more or less up touring, and UM, you know,
I sit on the side and by my by my fingers,
thinking this is not the way to teach her, you know. So,
but it didn't matter because I knew she wasn't going
to go anywhere. I mean, you know, it's just it
(20:24):
wasn't her thing. It wasn't her thing. It wasn't her thing.
And you were bosso biting your song saying please don't
let it be her thing. But if it is, I'll
have to go with it, as as every parent you know.
And then, but that was interesting to read about you
because it's such I have a friend whose daughter found
a question riding, and that seems to be something that
you really have to present them with because it's involves
(20:45):
horses and going somewhere in all the wardrobe. But she
said her daughter just threw friends, found it and got
the bug. So it wasn't that the mother wanted this
at all, and nor did she pressure the child. And
it sounds like you had no pressure. Wasn't even in
your family. You just loved it. You hit what's fun is?
I was that way about roller skating, and my mother
used to say, you're never going to go anywhere with
roller skating. They don't have roller skating in the Olympics,
(21:06):
like not being well kind of, you know, maybe, but
I spent hour and I tell you, I would go
to the roller rink at nine in the morning and
I would leave at nine thirty at night. So I
was an amazing roller skater, but to no end even
to want roller skating lessons. And you know, I used
to not understand why I wouldn't be in the Olympics.
But the point is, I was like you, No one
told me to like roller skating. I just loved it.
(21:27):
But so I guess the answer is you want to
lead your kids to find the things that they love,
but there's no need to force them because they all
know themselves that they love it from your perspective, absolutely,
And my parents always tried to find something that interested.
But I have a brother and a sister, and so skating.
I was the youngest, and I was not the brightest,
(21:50):
uh student, and and I was really shy, and you know,
I like to sing and dance, but I really couldn't.
Don't have a voice to sing, and really not a
body for a dancer. And so I skating. It was
like you my parents it was a great babysitter for
them too. They dropped me off at nine alf Corny
on the weekends and I we skated in public sessions
(22:11):
because the same sessions ten to twelve thirty, two to
two to three thirty three to five thirty seven to
nine thirty that's funny. So and that was just what
I love to do. And then it got week days
before school and after school, and my god, bless my mother.
She drove me, you know, into New York from Connecticut
(22:32):
and over to you know New Jersey, you know, places
that were at least an hour sometimes more to skate.
So but she knew that that was that was sort
of where I was comfortable. Never really dreamt that I
could actually get a job after. You know, it's amazing
turning pro Yeah, I never thought. I haven't thought about
this for years. That was my happiest time. I had
(22:54):
a lot of crazy stuff going on in my house,
but to just go, like you said, the babies, to
just get to the roller and knew people there and
you had your own little world and you some people
were better than others, and you ran your own little show.
And you know, I remember it was we were into
disco music, which I was at a school called St. Agnes.
It was a Catholic school and they were all it was.
(23:17):
The music was older, but they were into the doors
and rock and roll, and it was sort of like
a secret life that I had, being into disco and
this roller rink. So I left that world and just
went into this other world where I had different friends
and different and learned about music, and you know, it
was freeing. It's funny that you say that, because I
just reading about you. It just clicked right now. And
(23:38):
we want that for our kids, for them to just
lose themselves in something. You know, my daughter into art
and show. But that's a nice thing to have your kids.
How old is your daughter? My daughter's eleven, she's in
sixth grade. And I took um a room in my
house that looks like a boiler room. It's really just
the bowels of the house. And I saw that it
had plumbing, and I said, uh, to my team, I
(23:59):
want to make this into an art room for her.
And they thought, it's Scott, what do you mean. This
is not a room. This is like a plumbing room,
you know, an electric electrical room. I said, no, we'll
get a nice lop sync. She can paint the walls,
we can put trolleys in here, and she can just
do what she wants because it's got a lot of space.
She was the other day, she was on a pottery wheel.
That was just loving the freedom of my daughter as
(24:19):
an artist doing pottery. It was like so freeing, it
was I was jealous, Like she has her own thing.
She spends her life in this dungeon in this house.
It's so funny. That's all the only patient wants to be.
So that's her ice skating rink. That's so great though,
you know, and an art as an artist, you really
want your surroundings to be comfortable that I don't have
to be glamorous. So yeah, she's at home there. That's
(24:41):
so cool. She's a nice girl. So what about relationships? Uh,
and the start of your life and relationships with with
that sort of cocoon that you were in and this
world with this structure, in these rules and responsibility, and
then how do you include a part warner into that
when you're professional at it or so it's such a
(25:02):
competitive person, how do you do how do you navigate that?
And I know you've we've all made mistakes, and so
I know you've made mistakes and then had some triumph.
So what's that figure eight? Like a lot of long
distance relationships, some good, some not so good. But as
you probably know that long distance relationships, you know, don't
(25:23):
really work. They're not easy. And so traveling and touring
all the time it was it wasn't Yeah, it was
not ideal, but you know, I was never in one
place long enough, So you don't really learn to have
a relationship so to speak, or you know, a partnership,
and you're not working on that skill as a human being.
(25:45):
That's what it takes to work at a relationship and
be a partner. So then you make the mistake and
then you do it the next time better. You're not
getting that much experience because you're not doing it that
much exactly exactly, so um, you know, and as a
as a kid, I didn't have the My parents didn't
have the best relationship either, um and so it didn't
have necessarily good role models. Not that I don't love them,
(26:07):
and they were, you know, but their relationship just wasn't great.
And then um, and then so touring, you know, you
just I had boyfriends here and there, but you know
a lot of telephone calls at night after the show
at eleven o'clock. So it was just didn't didn't work
for me. You know, I write my first husband, I
(26:29):
loved him dearly, but you know it was you know,
when the when the cats were or if I was
the cat. You know, there are things probably that went
on that I didn't know about. So anyway, Um, and
then my second I was kind of on the rebound
(26:51):
from my first marriage, and my daughter's father was not
unlike my first husband. UM, and I think I just
wanted so much the romance and you know, a partnership
and love and and that's kind of at the end
of that, at the end of the ice capad, it's
(27:12):
that whole um process selling the company. So I struggled
with the divorce there and everything else that was going on,
and you know, filed personal bankruptcy because you know, I
put my own personal money into Ice Capades try to
save it. And so the divorce happened. Then I had
(27:35):
to go back to work because I had to pay
child support. So I moved back from the California area
to Baltimore because my coaches and choreographers were there, and
sort of started over again. You really started over, like
you had to just be pretty much figure out how
to pay your bills and and and wow, yeah, that's
that's amazing. And did you really come out on the
(27:58):
other side. Did you figure it out? I did. I did.
I was very lucky to have, you know, be able
to still have a job, and um, it wasn't It
was wonderful. And I got to tour with all these
amazing skaters, you know, Michelle Kwan and Brian Boitano and
you know, all the best of the best um at
(28:19):
those and even Nancy Kerrigan. So you know, I was
definitely the old lady in that tour. But it was
wonderful and it was simple, and I didn't simple. I
didn't have to you know, worry about the other skaters
and paying the bills and are the owner of that
show and the producer, Tommy Collins was just a divine
man and wherever he is right now. But yeah, so
(28:41):
I was lucky, you know, to be able to do
that and then to skate in some other theater productions
and skating theater productions. Who is your favorite skater to watch?
(29:05):
And it may not necessarily mean score wise, or it
could be the prettiest skater or both or you know,
maybe different buckets, competitive or just elegance on the ice. Gosh, Well,
the young lady, the woman that I loved growing up
was a Janet Lynn and she was just so incredible.
She was powerful and she just floated over the ice,
(29:26):
but she was strong and um so I really admired her.
She was in between Peggy Fleming and my so she
was right in the in the middle. So that growing up,
she was such an inspiration. Not that Peggy wasn't, but
Peggy was so elegant and graceful. I could never sort of,
you know, be that, Oh it wasn't. I mean, you
(29:47):
felt the realistic aspiration from me. Yeah, Well, but it's
interesting that you were so successful even though you thought
that she was at a different level. She just filled
a different void for people. But you, you, you the
room for everybody, is what I'm saying. You succeeded and
excelled in a totally different way, even though in your
mind you never was as good as her. That was
(30:08):
from what you're describing. But to the world you were
it was just different. Different. Yeah, it was different. And I,
you know, I was would look up to somebody that
I felt that I could, Um, that wasn't unrealistic because
I would never be aspired to baby. And then later on, well,
I watched the skating last weekend on Nationals and these youngsters,
(30:29):
I mean I could watch them all all day because
there maybe because the pandemic, maybe they're all, you know,
skating more and not competing as much. They're just amazing
athletes and the things they're doing the difficulty is outstanding.
So so that was really fun. So I could watch
a lot of those skaters. Those are I mean, I
(30:51):
could still watch people like well John Curry all all
of these people are in the big skating rink in
the sky, I think. But um, there's some that have
just mastered the sports so well that you that's so nice.
It's an amazing thing to have been part of, I
have to say. And so with that, I'll ask you
(31:11):
of your career, not your life. What is your rose
and what is your thorn? Sounds like you described your thorn,
but it might not be like you can Your thorn
could be different. No, I think the thorn was just
the whole, you know, the whole having to sell ice
capades and and you know, divorce and bankruptcy. That was
all thorn. Yeah. And the rose, I mean I think
(31:36):
the rose is just what I've the opportunities I've had,
people I've met, not necessarily skating, I mean, skating is
always the sort of the entry point, um, you know,
the dirt, yeah, the grassroots, you know, it's just always
been my savior skating. Um. So like just the wonderful
(32:00):
experiences and people have been able to meet and things, Um,
those are sort of the highlights, I guess. So you've
had a great career And do you care about age
or vanity or relevance, like do you get recognized? Let
do you still feel relevant? You know? How does that do?
How does that whole? What's your relationship with that part?
(32:21):
Of it, the same part of it, um, the same
part was really hard in the beginning. Now, I'm old people,
you know, if they look at my idea or something
that that's a familiar name. But most but most people
are young people don't, which is which is fine? Relevance,
I don't know, I'm I don't really not relevant and
(32:44):
I don't think to me, you are. I called you
to be on this podcast for reason that you're not
so old, you know, but I'm not so young. But
I'm older. I'm a bit older than you are. But
that's okay. I think you look great. You look young,
and you feel young, and you are relevant to me.
So I just curious about that, you know, part of
your life. I do miss, you know, not having you know,
(33:06):
the young skin. I hate the gray eyelashes and the
gray everything else and the sallow skin and things jiggle
a lot more, you know, when you're young and you're
fit either, oh you know, Well I didn't think I
was fit then, but I know i'm not now. So
that's hard to that's hard to accept. Yeah, and do
(33:30):
you work on that or do not? You you don't
care that much? I mean, do you care about plastic
surgery and botox and procedures and working out like crazy
or any of that stuff. I do care about it.
For the last couple of years, I haven't been able
to exercise because of you know, my back issues. I
mean I couldn't even stand on my right leg so
and I was in such pain. But so that I
(33:52):
care about. But I absolutely think about you know, I'm
thinking what to do, when is the time? What someone's
to tell Yeah, I'll tell you. I think you I
was you look really fresh and really young. I swear
to God, and I would tell you do you do?
You don't and sometimes I think you look amazing. Well,
thank you. But I was talking to Christopher Buckle, this
(34:12):
you know, famous makeup artist this morning. I was just
texting him because he's a friend, and I said, one day,
if I need to do something, you'll tell me, he said,
I because he told someone else that you know, in
common when it was time for them. But some people
we'll just grow old gracefully, myself possibly included, because I
don't want to look like an alien. That's scarier than
looking a little old, like looking like a freak alien.
(34:34):
That's not my type of brand of being. Like, that's
not for me. Yep, I'm with you and that one.
So but so you look good. You look good, so
thank you. You look fabulous. Thank you. It's so nice
to meet you, and thank you for doing this. I'm
sure you were curious about what this would even be
because it's you know, no, I was listening to a
few of your podcasts, so I'm a total fan. And
(34:57):
now I know because I'm not I don't know the
social me media stuff well so um, but I certainly
know you from all the wonderful things you've done and
going through the grocery store or the liquor store seeing
your skinny girl, I'm envious. Well that's humbling, humbling to me,
it's wonderful. Oh, thank you. Well, now we know each other,
(35:18):
so our paths will cross one day maybe we'll be
skiing or ice skating near each other. So so nice
to meet you, and I wish you the best of everything.
Thank you you too, and thanks for having me. It
was fun, of course, yeah, really fun. Have a great day,
my dear. All right, take care. That was Dorothy Hamill,
(35:38):
someone who was a household name when I was a kid.
Wheaties box, I'm sure, and just she was an Olympic
figure skater, but one of the only ones that really
popped off, I mean Peggy Fleming and then Dorothy Hamill,
and later it was Nancy Kerrigan in my life that
just really was so commercial and America, a sweetheart and
(36:01):
loved and um and I just in doing this podcast,
I'll just think about people who I think I would
want to have an interesting conversation with, people who have
been a part of something or built something, done something interesting.
I mean, there was a Dorothy Hamill haircut and it
was named after her. No smaller and maybe even bigger
than Jennifer Aniston haircut. I mean it was a big
(36:22):
damn deal. There was this shorter sort of bowl I
had it anyway. She was absolutely lovely. She's been through
the wringer with body pain, with financial ruin effectively and
rebuilding and so negative experiences with relationships, so it's probably
comforting for people to hear that other people are going
(36:43):
through what they're going through. I mean, even wildly successful
famous Olympic athletes. So that was Dorothy Hamill, and I
was really excited to speak to her. Really nice conversation
and what a lovely person.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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