Julia Haart

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:13):
I want to talk about charcuterie boards. I need to.
I know that I make. I put four blocks of
cheese out, some grapes of I'm being super gourmet, a
couple of a couple of Marcona almonds, some interesting crackers
and call it a day. Truffle cheese means I'm elevated, okay.
And after those boards, there's always a lot of waste. Sorry,

(00:36):
I sliced alami too, if we're doing and I sometimes
do with all vegan cheese and whatever. But I know
on those days there's a lot of goddamn waste. So
I can't imagine the nationwide TikTok and Instagram waste going
on right now from these elaborate charcuterie boards, making flowers,

(00:56):
piling mounds of almonds. It also seems like a COVID
P treat dish of just hands grabbing at every little thing.
It looks disgusting. It looks good for two minutes ouzing
breath that's been baked and wrapped in walnuts or candy
or goddamn sugar, something oozing onto the boards. It looks disgusting.
We get it. You could put salami in a glass

(01:18):
and make a fucking flower. We got it. You can
make a swan out of a napkin. Also, let's take
charkuta reboards back to being simple. That big pile of
slop is going right in a garbage can, with all
that chopped bread that nobody eats, many many gherkins, many
little what do you call those? Like mini pickles? I forgot?

(01:38):
There's another corner, shans. How many friends do you have?
An eating corner Shawns? And eating capers off that like
long stem and like all this ship. I come, people
come over. I do the olives? People eat two olives.
No one's ever devouring to the bottom of the olives
or just like eating piles of like fruits and pecans
and all the ship. Can we just cancel charcuterie boards

(01:59):
at this level, at this time, let me just say something.
Can we just at least minimalize charcuterie boards, please? Can
we just have a little section of salon less is
more mounds and mounds, it's volcanoes of dried nuts and apricots,
and I've just never seen If you show me a
finished charcuterie board, I'll honestly send you into the towers

(02:23):
of Heaven. I just I've never seen it. I've seen
finished bowls of pasta, finished bowls of Gigi Hadid's pasta,
finished you know, mounds of of Emily's what, Marco's whatever,
the Sharato Manna's seaweed program. But I've just never seen
a completed shark kuterie board. Cancel me if you like.

(02:45):
Maybe it's also I'm bitter. I don't know how to
make a great one. I just hate waste. Also, I
bet you I could do it. I just don't like
a lot of waste. My assistant and my producer loves
charcuterie plates. I'm worried I'm going to get canceled. I
literally thought that I was going to get canceled because
of my discussions about kale uh And I'm worried. I
am worried that the sharcuterie community is going to have

(03:08):
a real problem with me. So I just want to
apologize in advance. Um bear with me. It's my wood platter,
my choice. So I just I'm sorry for the controversial
conversation about charcuterie boards. I'm gonna get canceled. What do

(03:28):
you think anyone with me? Oh? Today I'm talking with
Julia Hart. This one gets a little feisty. So this
podcast begins with a little resistance and a little back

(03:49):
and forth. And I have to sort of take the
steering wheel because what goes on on just be as
you know, is about you hearing one's journey to success.
And I have my own way and you know, my
own methodology of getting there. So Julia Hart initially wasn't

(04:09):
quite with the program, and you'll see how we had
to adjust a little bit today. So buckle up. It's
going to be an interesting and enjoyable conversation that takes
many twists and turns. She is the co owner and
CEO of Elite World Group and star of the Netflix
show My Unorthodox Life. She is certainly controversial. Julia has

(04:31):
the most fascinating life story. She was raised ultra Orthodox
Jewish and left the religion after having children. She had
to leave so much of her life and community behind,
but left with a plan. She took her entire life
savings and launched her first shoe brand. Since then, she
has built an incredible empire, including her wildly successful talent agency.
We talk religion, power, marriage, all of it. You're going

(04:54):
to love this interview. You will have your own opinion,
and you will want to order her upcoming book, Brazen
for sure. Check it out. Hello, Hi, nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you. I'm excited. Um, this is going

(05:16):
to be interesting. They're all different, but this is going
to be interesting. Right now, you have a show called
My Unorthodox Life and it's current, meaning you're promoting it now. Well,
I mean it aired in July of this year, and
we've just been very fortunate that the press is not
subsided because I just think people are interested in the story,

(05:38):
and you know, I think it just gives people hope. Okay,
I think people need hope. You know, got it? Okay, So, um,
we'll get into your whole trajectory. But uh, what what
was your name when you were born? Originally ya Label
so that's a Hebrew name. Russia. I was born in

(05:59):
my scope a Russian name. So what made you change
your name? And when? Oh my gosh, there's a long
name change. So I started off Utah, right, It's a
Russian name, which when I came to America became anglicized
into Julia, and I kept Julia until twelfth grade. When
I was in twelfth grade. Uh, you know, you have

(06:21):
to think about you know, go back a hundred years
where a woman's choice was a good marriage or a
bad marriage. Right, So all I thought about was how
to get a good ship off a good match. And
everyone in my community, except for a few odd exceptions
here and there, most people were kind of rock Holeia

(06:42):
Sama broca, And so I was Julia. I had a
secular name, and so I was told that I would
have a better chance at securing a more righteous husband
with a Hebrew name. So in twelfth grade, before I
started dating, I changed my name to talia Ah. And
then when I left the community, I went back to

(07:04):
the name I was given, which was Julia. Okay, so
this is your child, and you were born in Russia,
m okay, and when did you come here? So, honestly,
like the whole past is not something that we cover
in the show because it's all in my book and
it's such a crazy story and it's such a complex one,

(07:27):
and it was literally I think I can't remember the
exact page count that I handed it, but it was
somewhere around seventy dred pages. We've cut it down to
a nice manageable a little under five hundred hopefully, um
So it's definitely, you know, an easy read, but it's
a long story, and so you know, it's an impossible

(07:48):
one to tell the whole trajectory of my life on
a you know, like on a sound bite. It's just
it's I get it. I get it because someone says
of me, weren't religion or you. It's it's a long
question conversation if some schools, but we have to get
Granu're on some level. So we'll have to make an
attempt at it just to just just I'll take I'm

(08:10):
not gonna I don't want to know, frankly, every single
intimate detail. I just want to get and I have
a place where I'm going. So when did you come
from Russia to the United States. It's actually a really
interesting story because we were traded for grain um in
the seventies. There were there was a lot of anti
Semitism in Russia and my parents were studying Judaism illegally

(08:33):
under the table, so to speak, um and they got
my father got caught, and so there was this huge
movement in America at the time, and it was called
let My People Go, and it was about people like
my family that are called refused Nicks because they were
refused to emigrate out of the Russia. And so basically America,

(08:57):
I think it was called the Verick Bill, America aided
Jews for grain. So yeah, because there was a huge
hunger and grain shortage in Russia, and America did a
green embargo because of all of the Russian civil rights violations,
particularly anti Semitism, and so in the end, the decision

(09:19):
reached was they would literally trade Jews for grain. And
so my family was one of the families that was
brought over to America because of this organization. So and
what age were you? Then we left when I was three,
uh and by the time, but it was a very
long journey because um it was run by this organization

(09:44):
called Highest and basically you went to internment camps first
before they placed you. So first we went to an
interman camp in Austria. Then we went to an interman
camp in Rome. Well, I actually got to meet the
Pope because he was really very supportive and helping um
these Jewish refuse nis come out of Russia. So I

(10:07):
lived in Rome for six months. By the time we
made it to the United States, I was five years old. So,
as I said, it's a really long story, but I
mean it's it tells this little moments tell something about
you culturally experienced transition. Yeah, so when you get to
um but when you came to where did you come

(10:28):
to Brooklyn? Oh? No, no, I um So. The way
that highest worked is a Jewish community in a state
or a city would adopt a family, okay. And so
we were adopted by the Jewish community in Austin, Texas.
Oh so you were in Austin. Okay. I lived in
Austin until I was eleven. Okay. As I said, there's

(10:49):
just so much and it's no. Yeah, it's all in
the book. No, I understand if you want, but we're
not gonna own if you want. This is not the
place to really just talk about a book that's not
interesting to people. What's understand other talk about what I'm
doing now, because the past really gets covered in the book. Yeah,
but this show is about your trajectory to where we
are right now. So we're that's I mean, if if

(11:10):
you've ever listened to me, Jeffrey Katzenberg was willing to
talk about his childhood. So I don't have to talk
about my childhood if you want to listen. I'm gonna
drive because I want to give this audience what they deserve.
But we don't just come on here to promote stuff
like that's not what this is. And that's when I
say the book might hear I'm not telling about promoting

(11:31):
the book your current Yeah, but we're everybody here isn't
necessarily going to That's what I'm saying. We just have
to get on the same page because we can do
this another day. I just want you to know that
I want to understand who you are as a woman,
as a businesswoman, as a person, and even Cameron Diaz
took two minutes about her wine. I want to understand

(11:52):
who she is. So everybody has sort of been Hillary
Clinton has been cool with this silly again, not that
I don't want to talk about and just wondering what
the right time to talk about. Why don't you let
me drive if you don't like it? None of this
says to air, Just let me let me drive the
car for it. Okay, so you come to New York
and because I don't want to hear your whole life story,

(12:12):
that's not what the show is about. But I have
to have a reason. There's a reason your success in trajectory. So, yeah,
that's what I'm doing. So, um, if you come to so,
then you come to New York and your so when
you say religion, so your life has been being an
Orthodox Jew. Like if someone says I'm so ultra orthodox
to ultra that's why I'm saying. So there's this is

(12:33):
a ten out of ten of the most strictly religious
Jew in your meaning. It's it's what is sometimes called
the black Hat community or the Yeshivish community. It is
not Orthodoxy. It is an extreme form of Orthodoxy. So
it's not necessarily is it? Is it the men are
wearing the paious and the women that So the difference

(12:55):
between Classidic and Yeshivish, interestingly enough, is actually intellect versus emotion.
And let me explain what that means. So Kasidas began
somewhere in the seventeen hundred's. It's very relatively new in
the Orthodox world. It was started by this man named
the Basham Too who started this movement because until the

(13:18):
seventeen hundreds, um, the way that Orthodox Jews related to
religion was through the study of the Torah and the
Talmud and the Gamara. Right the central place of Orthodox
Judaism until Kassidis was the yeshiva, the place of learning.
So it's all about learning and intellectual connection to God,

(13:42):
studying the Talmud, studying the Gamara, all of that. What
happened in the seventeen hundreds is Jews were leaving Judaism
by the droves because most of them were impoverished. They
lived as you know, they tilled the land, they were
agriculturally involved, and many of them were illiterate, and so

(14:04):
they were leaving Judaism because they didn't have that connection
at intellectual connection. So the baal Shanto came along and said, wait,
you can connect to God even if you don't know
how to read, even if you're illiterate, even if you
can't afford to send your son to a yeshiva. And
Kasidas became centered in prayer, in love of God, in

(14:27):
an emotional connection. So that's really the only difference. And
so whereas a Hosidic woman will cover her hair with
a short wig and a pill box hat, we would
cover our hair with a longer wig. But in both
directions we're covering our hair. So my community where a
black felt hat, their community will wire a black fur hat,

(14:49):
but the reality of the differences are so minute that
it's not really well. And it's interesting because you left
this life, and you know, I don't want to stay
too far in that because I to go too far
in that because I want to talk about business. But
I do think it's an interesting conversation. How did you
personally feel inside and know that you wanted a different life?

(15:10):
Like how can a child understand who they are? And
I have this in my own house with my daughter
with what she wants and doesn't want to find it
fascinating and I don't push her with anything, but the
more children seem to be pushed, the more they rebel.
So explain that to me that dynamic for people. I mean,
it's like really three really good questions rolled into one,

(15:31):
and so let me try and do all the touch
points because those are really good points. So to answer
the first one about tradition and you know, people wanting
to maintain their faith, I respect that and I think
it's very beautiful. I think modern Orthodoxy does it in
a way where they keep the traditions. They're keeping shops,
they're keeping the holidays, they're following the traditions, but It's

(15:55):
called modern Orthodoxy for a reason because they have modernized
the parts of those traditions that were excluding women or
treating women differently. So, for example, my son is in
the school, which is a modern Orthodox school where they
learn all the traditions, all the beautiful practices, but women
study talmud. The classes are co ed. They go to

(16:18):
college there completely immersed in the outside world while still
following the tradition, keeping the religion, so forth and so on.
And I think that's beautiful and wonderful, and I have
zero issue it. I'm so grateful that the school like
my son goes to exists. It's been now eight years

(16:38):
since I've been out, and you know, at least eight
years of preparation when I was in. So it was
a very very gradual transformation, just slowly became more and
more modern. So so you didn't like reject the whole
thing and go the opposite direction. That's not not definitely,
not initially. It was a slow s whole process. And

(17:02):
you see with my kids it everyone comes to it
in a different time and you and it's not when
it comes to faith and when it comes to you know,
things that have you know to me, I've been indoctrinated
in me. You know that it's my responsibility that a
man doesn't sin. That you know that all women are
put on the earth for the same reason to be

(17:23):
wives and mothers. This this idea that this is what
God wants out of every man, and this is what
God wants out of every woman. Those ideas are the
ones that destroyed me. Well all, yes, and I would
imagine you probably still have triggers now where you still
feel guilty about something that you intellectually and emotionally know
is not correct, but like it's in your body. I

(17:45):
love what you're saying because you get me like that. Yes,
you know, the hardest thing is, honestly, it's not even
guilt or doing some things. It's you know, when people
try to negate what happened to me or say, oh,
it doesn't sound so bad. And you know, I think

(18:06):
that religion is sometimes used as an excuse or a
multitude of bad behavior, and once you cross the line,
you're out, like you you can't be swimming in between.
I'm scared to go back to Muncy. I have not
gone back. I am Petroby. I cannot go back. I've
had death threats. I had to change my phone number.
It took me eight years to have the courage to

(18:26):
tell the story. Eight years. It's not an easy story
to tell, and I knew the people because you can't
argue with the rules. Right. It's inarguable that women are
covered head to tell. It is inarguable that they're married
off as teenagers. It is inarguable that they're not allowed
to that they don't live alone or have real careers.

(18:46):
Women in my community work to support their husband and
their families so that the husband can go learn Torah
and not be bothered with anything. They're expected to have children, race, children,
make money, but again within the unity uh, and do
everything so that the man can achieve greatness. It's always
greatness by proxy. I am very proud to be a

(19:10):
jew um, but that doesn't negate the fact that these
laws are wrong. They've changed in every other culture. I
was reading in a newspaper the other day that the
Pope is meeting about reforms in the church. Every religion
has reformed itself, has modernized itself, has acknowledge that women

(19:30):
are equal to men and are capable of doing anything
that a man can do, and that we are to me,
it's all. It's really two core foundational concepts that to
me almost I mean almost destroyed me. I wanted to die. Um.
And those two foundational concepts are number one, this idea

(19:53):
that every that you are, your destiny is determined by
your biology. That is the first foundational flaw. Because think
about it that, you know, men say thank you God
for not making me a woman, right They every man
says that when they wake up in the morning. Why
do they say that. Their excuse for saying that, as well?

(20:14):
Men have more mitzpos, they've got more positive commandments because
they're commanded to learn the tew roll, they're commanded to
go to synagogue, they're commanded to become scholars. Women don't
have those, uh, those commandments. And that's why men are saying,
thank you God for making me a marrin for giving
me more commands. I don't think anyone's sitting there saying
I want to hurt women. I don't believe that. I

(20:36):
believe that as long as these laws are perpetuated, women
are going to suffer. By definition, this idea that all
women are put on earth to do one thing and
all men are put on earth to do the other
is the problem because some women do not want to
have children. Some women do not want to get married.
Some women without any you know, who want to have

(20:58):
children desperately and badly cannot have children. So this idea
that all women were put on this earth for purpose
x and all men were put on this earth for purpose,
why is the problem. Some women want to be scholars,
Some women are erudites. Some women are brilliant and philosophical
and they want to study the talment. Some men want
to be caregivers and stay at home with their children.

(21:20):
This construct that just because you have a breast and
a uterus, every woman is the same and should act
the same way and should have the same purpose in life.
That's the crux of it. That's why they get married
off at nineteen. That's why even when they work, like
for example, when I was in my community, Um, you know,

(21:42):
your job was to get married to support your husband,
and these were the jobs available. Right. You go to
seminary and you become either a teacher in a school there,
or you become a secretary to religious person, or you
become a babysitter or a shaped tolmach or someone who
does wigs So all of these things are jobs within
the community that don't require a college education and that

(22:05):
will never make you a career person, but that you're
doing just to support your husband so he can become great,
so he can become the scholar, and your entire life,
like I grew up on stories, UM, Like, I'll give
you an example we've learned about this. Rebisent. A rebison
is someone who's married to a rabbi, right, not a rabbi,
not a female. And the story told is that, Um,

(22:28):
she gave birth in her home which had no air
conditioning because she didn't and it was you know, broiling
hot summers, but she didn't want to complain because then
her husband would have to worry about money and his
soul job was to learn Torah. And one day she's
giving birth in at her home and she didn't cry

(22:48):
out from any pain. She even though she was suffering
tremendous pain of childbirth, because she didn't want to interrupt
her husband's learning. Those are the worries were taught self abnegation,
negating of yourself so that your husband can be great.
It's not that women can become scholars. It's not that

(23:09):
women can become erudite. They can't become rabbis. And it's
not that not just that we weren't commanded to do
these things. We were prohibited from doing that prohibited guys,
like come on, it's crazy, So you can attack me,
you can yell at me, but those laws are there
and you cannot tell me that they're not. And now,

(23:30):
of course they've added to the jobs. You know, like
now women in the community they have like these you know,
we're going to call them colleges in parentheses because it's
like Bolca. You you know, it's rabbi approved only girls
within the community and they become o t or pt
or and all within the Jewish religious school system. And

(23:53):
why are they doing this? Because it's their job to
also support the family while the husband learns to er
m Do you feel that women in these communities are

(24:14):
whispering and saying, you know, have these like sort of
either inappropriate thoughts or snickered together and talk about it.
But um, you must be too many of them, sort
of this person that got out, you have to be
receiving secret messages literally thousands, thousands upon thousands, I mean
some of them are so powerful. Um, recently two women

(24:36):
from my community, one of which was a neighbor of mine,
reached out to me saying, thank you for sharing your story.
We were so afraid to share ours. And both of
them attempted suicide, both of them. But that doesn't mean
every woman there is unhappy. There's thousands and tens of
thousands of women just like and again, this is what

(24:57):
I keep on reminding people. This is not a happiness contest. Right,
go back into nineteen seventy when a woman couldn't get
a mortgage without a man's signature. Does that mean every
woman in the nineteen seventies was unhappy? No, of course not.
Does that mean that the law was unjust? Yes? Absolutely,
So it isn't about happiness. You could be happy living

(25:17):
in a box because you that's the only thing. That
doesn't mean that it's right. So wow, Okay, well this
is a seven hour conversation as a right, as you see,
now you've got my more interested typically you're on here.
I'm a woman, believe I love it, you get me.
I don't. I don't have anything against any person in
the community, even the people attacking me. I understand. You know.

(25:41):
For some all I'm doing is asking for change of laws.
That's it, very simple. Free women. Free women, make us equal.
Don't tell us that are that we're defined by our biology.
Don't tell us that we have to hide in our houses,
cover our parties, wear wigs, not ever. I mean, do
you see any base act of that's the school that

(26:02):
I want. Did you see any base act of graduates
on who can dance or um? You know, you don't
see these people out singing or dancing. You can dance,
but just not in front of men, not in public,
not uncovered, not wearing fans. You can ride a bike
or maybe you can't, but you know, but it's you
have to wear your skirt, you have to worry if
your knees show. All of this is a constant restraint

(26:25):
and this idea that you as a woman are responsible
for men controlling themselves and so your life has to
be smaller so that they don't have to bother And
that's wrong, it's just wrong. I get it. But you
have a it's very important. I'm glad you broke through
your starting this conversation. You're in this conversation and you've

(26:46):
fully committed to it because you're going to have a
lot of enemies. But the of the matter is you
rip the band aid off. You're in this now, so
you're going all the way. So I'm fine, you're going
all the way. Yeah, no, if it's I get it,
I'm a put You're a polarizing person now, but you
know you're the first. So here we go. All right.
So as far as business, you are a businesswoman. I mean,

(27:07):
did you think as a child that you had something
like what was it or your whole trajectory of like
business and success, like inside what was going on? And
then how did you put one ft in front of
the other to become a business person? You know you
mentioned your daughter, and that really is the crux of

(27:27):
everything in my life because, as you say, even as
a young child, you know, we were taught in elementary
school what our purpose in life was. You know, when
I got to seminary, which some people tried to compare
to college, I'm sorry, seminary is about as as equivalent
to college as I am. You know, tall, and I'm five.
So it's just, uh, we's one year of intense indoctrination

(27:51):
and the perfect examples that the first day we walked
into seminary, the principle said, and I quote, you have
been told that we are known for brainwashing our students. Well,
we do, because whose brain doesn't need a little washing.
So when you go through this whole process, you are

(28:13):
so indoctrinated to believe that your only purpose in life
as as a helpmate to someone so that he can
attain greatness, so that your sons could be scholars. You're
and I asked when I was there, I asked the
principle and I said, I don't understand. Why can't girls
study the Talmud and the Gamar? I asked that question

(28:35):
when I was eighteen years old. This is what the
men are studying, and the women are not allowed to
study the religious Yeah, and those trallies are where all? Yeah,
you are not a woman is not just not commanded
to study the Talmud or the Gama or the mission
of all the places that hold all the laws that
govern our lives, we are forbidden from doing. So what

(28:57):
are the consequences for all of these rules that we're
talking about, to not wear the school, to not wear
the thing, what are the consequences? So imagine, did you
ever watch Britain No want to? If you've ever read
anything about Regency England or Victorian England or anything where
the reputation of the girl and the family is going

(29:17):
to determine the ship of the match. And that's what
the whole life is about. The better match you can get,
the better your life is. And that means money, doesn't it.
It means money, but it also means that the principle,
because who's the person who gets asked about a prospective
girl the principle of her high school, the principle of
her seminary, and so she didn't behave or she was inappropriate.

(29:39):
The principle of a high school is asked if a
man wants to marry a young woman, they're involved in
this decision. The parents will call the school to get
in again. You have to think about it as like
it's like interviewing for a job. It's the wife I
gotta asked the craziest questions. I mean they're all my book,
but like I'll just give you one example. I was
asked what kind of bananas I would buy slightly green,

(30:03):
right or overripe? And the only correct answer. Guess what
the correct answer is, are you supposed to bake? Because
they'd be overripe? If you're baking and cheaper there you go.
So the answer is if it's um. If it's not
right yet, then you're not having trust and faith in
God and you're preparing for the future, so that's no good.

(30:24):
If it's just right, then you're you know, your high
maintenance and you buy the most expensive things. If you
say it overripe banana, that means you can suffer for
the sake of heaven and you will be a better
wife to your husband. I was taught when I was dating.
Dating right, you're you have a few hours to meet

(30:44):
your prospective husband. You get out to go out a
few times, and going out, you're not allowed to ever
be alone together, so it has to be in a
place with a group of people you can't touch or
kiss or shake hands or do anything else. And you
basically have a few hours as a teenager you decide
who you will be spending the rest of your life with.
Did you get a good one? I mean, he's a
lovely person, but it's not someone I should ever have married. No.

(31:07):
But in the world of that world, was it a
good ship? What is a good show off? Not from
the like that side, not as much as my siblings
because he also is a ball too, I meaning he does.
He his family was not religious either, and so that,
you know, has a stigma attached to it in that world.
It's it's like being a blue blood. You both were

(31:29):
like b minus Jews. Exactly, be minus Jews, Yeah, exactly.
So what my siblings got much more, let's say in
the community's lexicon, much more prestigious matches, right, and so
your whole life is governed by your match. Everything in
your life. So it keeps your parents in line because

(31:50):
if they do something inappropriate, the rabbi that the the
perspective in laws will call will say, no, they're not
an adal family. What tablecloth you used in your house
could stop a ship, you know, So your entire life,
that's what's hold held over your head. Like for example,

(32:10):
when I first became irreligious, you're irreligious. That's what you
consider yourself irreligious? Yeah, I'm not. I am completely not
a religious That's why I asked about your child being
in a religious school. That has to do with your
child's father again to me, Yeah, if that's what he wants,
I'm super happy with that, as long as it's in
a school where he can also get a good secular
education and where he can go to an ivy League

(32:31):
college and live a full, fulfilling life. If he wants
to stay religious, that is his choice. And I have
never forced my children to do anything that they did
not want to do. I've let them all come on
the journey in their own way, in their own time.
Much you have to collaborate with an X And he's lovely,
and he's a lovely person. And by the way, he
has moved out of the community. Interesting, he no longer

(32:53):
lives in Muncy. Okay, Well, so how did you break
out and how did you become a business person? I
read that you started to so when you were sixteen,
So you use some of the skill sets of this
culture to be successful. So let's hear about that. Well.
To me, honestly, my biggest strength is threefold. Number one,
I am a study or by nature, right, And that's

(33:15):
why I killed me that I couldn't even study the laws,
the books that governed my entire life. I was forbidden
from studying that. Even if you didn't want it to
be your life, you wanted to understand and just take
have knowledge. I wanted to understand why my life was
like this, no one would explain it to me, so
I wanted to read it myself and say this doesn't
make sense. But of course I was literally forbidden from

(33:38):
doing so, and you know I and of course I
did it anyway. I taught myself aramic I would, you know,
argue with rabbis and constantly get in trouble when Rabi
told me the Mahara would turn over in his grave
to be quoted by a woman. That's the kind of
attitude there. And so but I love intellectual pursuit. I
am a I'm a student and by nature I you know,

(34:01):
I love to learn and so um when I decided
that I was going to leave, it was a very
long process, and the last eight years in my community
was a very purposeful education about the outside world, even
if I was still on the outside looking in. But
I read everything I could get my hands on. Voltaire, Euripides,

(34:24):
date card Spinoza. I mean literally, you name it. I
promised you I have read it. And that's how I
educated myself and to me that ability to continue learning.
Because I think you probably see this as well in
your industry. Don't you find that when people are young,

(34:44):
they're very proud of how quickly they can learn. Right,
What are you proud of in high school and college?
What grades you get for learning? For growing and and
and and learning new knowledge and jesting knowledge. As we
get older, we get proud of something that to me
is the most dut mental thing in the world. We
get proud of what we know, and we stop thinking

(35:04):
about what we don't know. We become set in our way.
Table now, youth is proud of their social media impact,
sadly or not sadly, and I think as people get older,
they they they get proud of what they have. So
also sadly, I wish I wish that kids were proud
of what they learned, and I wish that people were
proud of what they know. You know. I mean I

(35:26):
think a little bit of that being like talking about
politics and talking about religion and having an opinion at
a table. I mean to that I agree with it.
I was taking more from like a business sense that
think about it this way, like how many times and
I'm sure you've been told this, that's not the way
it's done, or this is how it's done. Oh yeah, yeah,
That's what I'm talking about. But I want everyone to
know that this has been a very different interview, and

(35:48):
I knew it would be that Julia is a very
very very successful mogul, female entrepreneur who came from could
not be less of a traditional background. So now I
want you to help us bridge you know, elite and
La Perla and fashion and there to hear. So you
know you asked me the question. I mentioned your daughter

(36:09):
because you know, as as I said, my entire life there,
I felt that something was wrong. But I thought it
was that I was the flaw. Meaning every woman around
me seemed to be happy to listen to her husband,
to ask him for permission to be a housewife and
a mother, to work as a secretary or a pt
or no deer, whatever was allowed in the community, and

(36:31):
it wasn't enough for me, And I thought, I'm flawed.
And because the problem wasn't My nature is not shock,
it's not quiet, it's not retiring. I'm not a homemaking
kind of person. And my only outlet of creativity was
cooking because it is the only thing I was allowed
to do right, Because you know, fashion clothing in that

(36:53):
world are made to conceal, right, to hide yourself. And
here's Julia wearing colored book close, and I would argue
all the time and say, hey, I'm covered head to
tell you were trying to push the boundaries. I pushed
the boundaries as much as I could. There. I got
in trouble for it, obviously all the time, but I
did push the boundaries because I would say I'm following

(37:15):
the law right and they would say, yeah, but it's
not the spirit of the law. Julia, you're too noticeable,
you're too loud. Why can't you just stay home? Why
can't you be like other women? But then my daughter Miriam,
when she was literally a peanut, a little child, she
started asking those questions. She would come home crying, saying

(37:35):
I want to be a boy because boys were able
to do things she wasn't allowed to do. And she
kept on crying and saying, Emma, why can't I do
X and Y if boys can't? And my husband would
say to her, well, it's not so appropriate. Someone could
see her knees, and she would literally say, but why
is that my fault? Why can't he worry about that?
And to hear it out of this little baby, this

(37:58):
little child, gave me permission to recognize that it's not
that I'm crazy these are all are wrong, and so
once she gave me permission to question. She's also the
reason I, in the end walked out that door, because
she was so miserable. I mean, she would come home
crying every day. It was really horrible. And you walked

(38:20):
out that door like you had the conversation and you
were out. I had, Yeah. I mean, you know my
original plan, and I talked about it very glibly and lightly.
And I don't think people really understand I wanted to die.
I was at such a level of despair that the
only way I saw out was depth. It's not a joke,
it's not something you know. I don't think people can

(38:43):
understand what it feels like to constantly be told that
your inmateself. Is that imagine being gay or trans in
that community. Well, if that's Miriam, it's Miriam right. She
has a Yeah, Miriam is a bisexual hit. She has
a beautiful Swiss girlfriend. Oh how old is she? She's

(39:03):
twenty one, So she and interesting fact she was dying
on the inside. I couldn't bear it. I couldn't bear it.
And then she's the only reason I didn't kill myself,
because I realized if I die, she gets to live
the life that I have, and she'll be as miserable
and tortured as I was. And so I I that's

(39:26):
what gave me the carriage to walk out the door
and being told, now, oh, well, what's the big deal?
She looked great. It isn't about how well I looked
or how you know, how smilily I was. I'm a
smiley person. I wanted to die. No, but I also
get you didn't want to leave her. No, that's the
only reason I left. I couldn't do it. Tell everyone

(40:04):
what your career is, because this is the craziest are
are ever. And I know that I read that you
were very high at Laperla, like you had a major job.
I was a creative director. You're creative director at Laperla.
How did you get that job? And also, the garment
industry is very connected to this community, a different kind
of garment industry. They're more you know, in the what

(40:26):
we call the Schmatza business, right, and also not as
high end, right, it's more the mass market kind of clothing.
So um, the reality is, I had said. The one
thing is you know the fact that I'm a voracious reader,
and I and I educate myself and that ability to
constantly I sometimes, and I know this is going to
sound crazy, but I can see the future. I'm not

(40:49):
stuck in what is. I'm always focused on what should
be or could be. You're playing chess, you got I'm
always seventeen. I've planned. I mean, it took me eight
years to leave. It was not something that happen and overnight.
I planned it down to the last. You aren't sure
you were gonna do your planning but doubting, but planning.
But yeah, meaning I was planning but too afraid to

(41:09):
do it. You would sleep dreaming it. But while you're
exact exactly because to actually walk out the door is
a whole separate thing. Well, that's like sleeping with the enemy.
The whole plan. You had to have a whole bag.
But yeah, and you still weren't sure if you're gonna
do it? So then then where did you walk to?
And then but so my entire life, as you said,
I started sewing. I taught myself out of so at sixteen.

(41:31):
The first thing I made was a silver um taffia.
You know that's silk taffida, thank you. So the first thing,
I mean, of course, I didn't know that taffat is
really difficult to sew with, and I didn't have a
sewing machine, so I taught myself out a sew by hand,
and I would sneak Vogue used to have go back

(41:52):
to the eighties, these um patterns. So I would take
Vogue patterns and I would sneefy them mean and I
had to make them upst right, so I'd have to
have a high color and longer sleep. So the first
thing I did was this silver tafoda peplum dress that
I wore to my friend who was getting married in

(42:12):
twelfth grade, my friend who was eighteen, who was getting married,
and I brought a thread and a needle to the
wedding because I had a feeling that something would unwrapl
We had wedding because it was literally the first thing
I ever made um, and by the way, something did unravel,
but I managed to run into the bathroom and sold
back up. So fashion was something I was fascinated with. Literally,

(42:33):
since I'm old enough to have a memory, I taught
myself how to draw. I would you know, buy books
on the sly by magazines on the sly high drawings
in my underwear drawer, I mean fashion, And I was
always getting in trouble for being too colorful, for being
too noticeable. And I would keep on saying, the day
that God stops creating flowers and color, that's the day

(42:55):
that I'll stop wearing color. You cannot show show me
where it says that God doesn't like shunk at it.
I want to see it. So I followed all the laws,
but as I got closer and closer to leaving, I
started arguing with all of the things that you couldn't
prove to me were a law, pushing the boundaries, and
you wanted the religion to break up with you. Yes, exactly.

(43:17):
So when I left, I figured, Okay, I've just traveled
two hundred years in the future. Oh my God, a
great way to say it. You just like the world
went from black and white to color. It was a
world of not to a world of yes. And it
really was me living in the eighteen hundreds, where matches
were everything, where a woman's life was determined by her biology,
and then you walk on into the twenty one century.

(43:38):
Think about it. I've never been to a bar, I
didn't know about contracts. I've never heard of an invoice,
I didn't know anything. I've never been on a date
with someone i'd chosen. I've never kissed a man i'd chosen. So,
you know, when you think about those things, I was
so clueless. I was literally a two year old on
one hand, and on the other hand, I had island

(44:00):
and drive and the hunger and ambition. But did you
have any money? I had earned some money while I
was in the community. Um, of course it disappeared literally
like in five minutes, because I put everything into the company. Um,
and so the first few years were so difficult. Into
a sewing company, a fashion company, my shoe company, shoe

(44:21):
And that's how I got to La Pearl Law because
Lapearla did a co branding with my shoes because at
the time they were trying to become a full fashion
brand and they had hired three or four other creative
directors and the things weren't selling, and so they were
going in out and looking for partners, someone to co
brand with. And so that's how that started. Lapearla co

(44:41):
branded with Julia Hart, which was my shoe company, and
my shoe company was I started my shoe company in
two thousands thirteen. By two thousand fifteen, I had a
contract with La Pearl Law and Pearla had a dred
and twenty seven stores around the world. So you came out,
you came out of I came out swing. Well. I
always say to people, when you jump, you fly. You

(45:03):
literally jumped. You prepared for your jump. You were organized
that you jumped, and you flew. So that applies to
a breakup, that applies to a business, that applies to
leaving a job. You were prepared. But when you jump,
you you actually really did fly, So you wow, Okay,
but it's like it doesn't feel like you just started
from It doesn't feel like you It wasn't like an

(45:23):
easy road, meaning I made so many mistakes in my
shoe company. It was crazy, like it's all in the book,
all the things I did wrong, all the things I
did right, all the people who I met. It's not.
I was not a smooth sailing journey. I mean we
were always on the brink of closing every minute, you know,
because yeah, but you had nothing to lose because you
had been to the bottom in your life exactly, and

(45:45):
losing would have meant going back. There was no fucking
way I was going back. So I had no choice.
It had to succeed. So I couldn't give up, because
giving up would be death. It just couldn't happen. I
would have to go back, My daughter would have to go.
You would get shut out with the door, you go
through the window. You you had a million mistakes, but
you figured it out. You kept That's why we have

(46:06):
a lot in common. Because I was thirty eight, I
had no family, no money. I had eight thousand dollars
to my name and all rent. I could not afford
a twenty five dollar taxi downtown. I wasn't panhandling. I
do not compare myself to the impoverished community. But I
was broke, so I this was not I had nowhere
to go. No one was going to ever pass away

(46:26):
and leave me any money. I am an only child.
I had been engaged and broken off all my engagements
because I didn't want someone to support me. I just
had to figure it out. Yeah, I wanted to do,
but I had no there's no it's not like you know,
because it's sound bites, and because the book hasn't come
out yet, it sounds like, oh yes. And I had

(46:47):
a shoe brand, and then it became a parla and
then it's not like that. It was hell it was.
There's no successful self made person or even if it's
been given to them. There's no person who's running a
business on their own that it's working out of luck.
There's nobody. It's you could get lucky, and there's no
Instagram influencer that it's working out of luck. It could

(47:10):
start out of luck. There's no one who's just walking
around successful out of Kim Kardashian is not lucky. Kim
Kardashian works her ass off. She may have had strokes
of luck by growing up in Beverly Hills and same
thing with the rest of the family. But Chris Jenner
does not funk around. And that is all skill and
hard work and strategy, absolutely, and that's what it is like.

(47:31):
You know, it's funny because you know, I had patents
pending on my shoes. I've invented this new kind of
shape where that's coming out. I've got shoes that are
coming out next year that you can kind of click together.
I've got all these things. I work twenty hour days.
I don't think anyone's ever met me now oh today, Now,
these are all things that I have now and yet

(47:51):
still people say, oh, she married a rich guy. I
would love to see if a successful man married a
wealthy woman, if they would say he married a rich woman.
It doesn't happen. So tell us about Elite, because then
I have a less I literally the first time I've
ever not even looked at the questions as I haven't.
Literally just this has been insane. So tell me about

(48:12):
Elite and this is what we all what we might
know of Elite Modeling agency, which is global enterprise. So
what what is it to people? So when I took over,
the only reason I did because originally I said no,
like fifty times, because to me, modeling was the flip
side of the world I lived in. It was still
women being objectified, being told to this, to that, dada, dada,

(48:35):
being chosen by some man, and it just didn't sit
well with me, got it. But when I started doing research,
because that's what I do, I research, I study my opponents.
You know, uh, you've got to be the sun Sue
of of the entertainment industry, right, So once I studied
the mistakes of my opponents, I realized that we are

(48:56):
sitting at the crux of a completely knew era in
terms of how people connect to each other. So think
about it, like you, right, you have the audience, You're
the talent. You have the audience. You have more audience
than NBC does because the audience has shifted to the talent.

(49:18):
So if the minute you start thinking that the audience
has shifted to the talent, you lie. Okay, If the
talent has the audience, they're the media. Mh. They have
the power. It's a massive shift in the power dynamic.
Oh like long gone or the days when a studio
owned talent, they had studio, and actually think about it

(49:40):
and think about the fact that, like if you were
a model, right, and the old go back, not old
in days, go back ten years, go back seven years.
You could not control your own career. You had to
wait for someone to choose you, to pick you, for
the phone to ring. You needed a casting agent or
a creative director or a photographer to be like, I
love her, look right. That's how it worked. Nowadays it's

(50:03):
the flip because now it's the casting agents and creative
directors and photographers running after the talent. Because the talent
has the audience, that means they have the power. The
talent drives in now and so that gives them freedom.
And what it enabled me to do is to start
looking at us as a media talent, the first talent
as media conglomerate. So the two things that that enabled

(50:26):
me to do. Number one was expand the roster of
who we represented, because it isn't about the runway, it
isn't about the magazine cover anymore. It's about not what
you look like, or how tall you are or how
hot you are. It's who you are, right because in
the end, to the person, to create longevity into your career,

(50:46):
to become a brand, to build yourself into a network,
you have to have something to say. So we signed
deep sea divers and mountain climbers and rollerbladers. I don't
care what I have, like the world's most renowned fencer.
And you are running this company. I'm the CEO and
co owner. Okay, So how the hell do you go?
And I know we have to get off, so but

(51:07):
I can't stop. How do you go from being in
the most strict religious environment to sewing to to tafoda
at a wedding, to making shoes to even shoes to
laperla like you acted like that was a little short
cute trip from you know, to to Laperla and then

(51:27):
who calls you and says we want you to be
to head Elite, which has nothing to do with Laperla.
Like I'm saying, it's like, it's like someone calling me
tomorrow I'll be like, we run Yahoo. Like no one's
calling me to run Yahoo. Right, So the reason Elite
came about is because I had left Laperla. UM, I
was current, I had invented. I was working on this
invention that we're popping out this year. It's really exciting.

(51:50):
It's going to be in Nordstrom and Neemon's and Dillard's
all over the place. UM and fashion or beauty thing,
fashion shape where that doesn't look like paper. We changed
the way that color is fused with fabrics so it
can stretch like the last girl, and so you can
have shaper that looks like laundry. It's really exciting. So
I was working at all these things and my husband

(52:12):
owned Elite at the time, and so, and he was
not happy with you know, what was happening there, and
he didn't think that he knows me. By at that point,
you knew me already, and he knew that I tend
to not see what is, but see what could be.
And I and I'm a planner and an organizer. He
saw my capabilities when we were at lap Pearl Law,

(52:34):
and so he tried to convince me to take this
over for probably nine months before I actually said yes,
because he kept on saying investigate, investigate, listen, study, learn right,
and so I bought into the company. I own half
of it, meaning separate from him. That's an important distinction
saying I we own. Now each of us own. I'm

(52:55):
a co owner of the company. So your partners with
your husband and we are partners, correct, we are equal partners.
Who gets the final say no, we're literally fifty fifty
where he break the tie? What happens if there's well,
so the beauty of what the deal that we made
is that if I take over, I take over. Okay,
that's he has no h he'll you know. The beautiful

(53:17):
thing about my husband is that he'll He has never
tried to take any credit from me. He's the person
who touts my accomplishments to everyone who can who he knows,
So I you know, he's a really you know, he
took my last name. Let's just put it that way, right, man?
Who Yeah, he took the last did you get married
two years ago? And he okay, well, you know because

(53:39):
it took you know, you know, I said yes to
you know when he proposed to me. But I told him, look,
I created Juilliard, I made her. I'm not giving her
for any man. And so he was like, fine, no problem.
And I figured, you know, he'll keep his last name.
I'll keep my last name. No big deal. Then we
order um silverware from Tiffany and a massive amount because

(54:01):
I love entertaining. And you know, once once you what's
it called, when you engrave it, that's it. No returns, right,
So they come it's all this. I think it was
a set of you know, for thirty people or forty people.
I can't remember exactly how many. But it's a massive
set of coulory of silver. And I opened it up

(54:22):
and it says on each fork on each NIGHTE it
says J S with a big H in the middle.
And I was said, oh my god, they messed up
at Tiffany. I told him I wasn't taking his last name,
and so they thought it was my last name. And
now we can't return it. What am I gonna do.
So I walk over to my husband, I'm like, um, surprised,

(54:43):
I think Tiffany made a mistake, and he tells me, Nope,
they didn't make a mistake. I'm taking your Oh my god,
what a what a pendulum swinging from your former life?
Rhy Can you imagine? No, that's okay, that a whide
we known thing like in your world, Like that's crazy.
You came from, like you're not allowed to even be

(55:03):
an quote unquote normal woman. And now you've me that's
the best part of that's bout. I'm so glad I
asked that question. That's the craziest thing I've ever heard.
And then usually I asked whether you're what percentage lucky,
lucky and smart you are? That's been answered by this podcast.
And I just would like to know, um, your rose
of your career and your thorn of your career. So

(55:25):
the rose of my career is that, you know, people
always Gertrude Stein, who it was a woman that I
you know, I've read about extensively because she was, um,
a proud lesbian in the nine twenties, openly lived with
her girlfriend at a time when that was not even
remotely acceptible. She's considered the mother of Impressionist art. She
used to bring all these intellectuals to their into their homes.

(55:48):
So I thought that was such a beautiful way to live.
And so she once said, when asked about impressionist art,
like because this is where people would see it for
the first time. Um. And so she once asked what
people's reaction to the art was when they saw it
for the first time, and she said a line that
pretty much encapsulates my life. She said, they come to mock,

(56:12):
but they stayed to pray, meaning every time I've done
something differently. You know when I said we're now talent media,
We're gonna go digital. We're gonna bring in producers, directors, filmographers,
videographers to truly transform our talent into brands and networked.
We're gonna give them longevity and financial control. We're gonna
build avatars out of them so they could walk seventeen

(56:33):
virtual runways in seventeen countries without ever leaving their bedroom.
All the things that I was talking about in two
thousand nineteen, people thought I was crazy. They literally thought
I was crazy, Just like when I was in the
Pearl Law and I was talking about melding comfort with
beauty and luxury and that women should no longer suffer
for beauty. Again, I was told, Julia, don't talk comforts

(56:54):
a dirty word in the fashion industry. Was like that, ridiculous.
Men don't suffer for beauty? Why is comfort a journey? World?
So always I tend to be the you know, I'm
always a source of I guess I'm like a lightning
lot of you know, because I'm constantly messing with the
status quo and saying, well, this doesn't make sense, that

(57:15):
doesn't make sense, Let's do it this way. And so
in the beginning they come to mock. Then my ideas
were Now our valuation is literally I mean it was
valued at ninety million. Um. You know, we've recently been
valued by some things that I will talk about on
another day, and over a billion dollars in two years.

(57:37):
This was an unexpected Well, I get asked every day,
will you ever come back to the Housewives? And you
know what, the day that you come, the day that
you do the Housewives, and I build a cast around
you and I that's the day that I'll go back
to the Housewives, perfect because I have a feeling you
and I have a lot in common. Amazing, and see
we butt heads for a minute, but you just got

(57:58):
to go on the journey with man. So now let's
get to keeping out of the way, because you have
a more crazy story that I really want to What
is the name of your book. It's called Brazen. You've
seen the cover on Amazon and Barnes and Noble or
wherever else you can buy books. So that was the
original cover that the um my I mean, I love

(58:20):
my publishers um came up with. But I told them, guys, look,
this is my story. I really want to design my
own cover. Wow, that's crazy. It looks amazing, it looks
very serious, it looks amazing. Great and great title. And
then the show is My Unorthodox Life, also on Netflix.
And um last thing, because I talked about successful relationships

(58:43):
between successful people, which you and your husband and arguably
are what are your guidelines, your rules things in a
day to day relationship that create a successful relationship. I
just think honestly, mutual respect and equality because my my
first marriage, it's not that my my ex husband was
bad or unkind in any way. He really was not.

(59:04):
He's a genuinely lovely human being. But he was taught
he's as much a victim as I am. He was
taught that his his purpose was to police me right.
And so what I realized with Sylvie, I think the
biggest takeaway is that you can still be independent and
respected as an individual, even within a marriage. Well this

(59:26):
was extraordinary, to say the least. And I'm glad we
got as much as we could to connect those two
worlds because it's important. Thank you so much. That was
really fun. So that was Julia Hartt Okay. So I
didn't even know who she was. I know of the

(59:49):
company Elite. This is a woman who was living in
what she felt to be an imprisonment where women were
an inferior We're just we're like an are your race.
It was almost like women work, It's not almost women
are inferior in this community. This is a woman who
went from that to sewing, which was something that she

(01:00:11):
was allowed to do, and cooking, to having a shoe business,
to working as the creative director of La Perla, to
now being married to a man who took her last
name and who is the CEO of Elite, which is
an international you know, it's a global media company. That

(01:00:32):
she was laughed at just a couple of years ago,
and it was valued it probably a hundred million dollars,
and now it's valued it more than one billion dollars.
She has a book called Brazen. She is probably less
brazen than I am, but she's certainly raisen. And we
started off and I think she just thought this was
gonna be a business conversation where she was just going
to promote her book like every other podcast. And I

(01:00:53):
really held her feet to the fire to explain to
us where she's come from, so we understand the factory
of where she's come from to where she is now,
from going from living a life in black and white
to living a life in color. Literally, it went from
where I was almost going to say this may not
be the podcast for you, to it being I went
longer than anybody and it being probably my favorite podcast.

(01:01:15):
This was crazy. Let's see what you think. Remember to rate, review,
and subscribe. It always gets a little hated around here
in some way or another. I'm always on the brink
of getting myself in serious trouble, which I knew walking
into this experience. So thank you for listening and growing
with us, because this podcast is growing and it's all
thanks to you.