July 26, 2024 • 20 mins
No, really. It's all about HOW you do it. Author, Dating Coach, and VIP Matchmaker Thalia Ouimet is back with another dating masterclass.
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Please welcome Talia. We met. She is an author, a
dating coach, and a matchmaker.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I hear young people saying that people aren't meeting people
out anymore because everybody's on the apps, and if you're
with a group, people want to approach, and they're all
these different things people are saying. So it's like an
archaic dinosaur sport and everyone's got their head in their
phone to meet people out. So I was talking to
these two young girls, they're twenty six, and they were
saying like, I said, well, are you seeing people that
(00:40):
you think are attractive out that you'd like to go
say hello to? And the one said she would say, yeah,
are you single? I was like, well, that's a terrible
in my opinion, I'm not an expert you are, but
I think I said, that's a terrible opening line. I
would talk about find some way to talk about business
to them or something. Because these girls are food reviewers,
So I was like, you're in a restaurant. You could
say like, Hi, I'm a food reviewer. What did you say?
(01:00):
So it gives you an in that doesn't make you
feel desperate like So I was going to ask you
how people should handle approach and connectivity out in a
social space, by a pool, at a bar, at a casino,
the supermarket, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I love those topics so much because I wrote an
entire chapter about it in my book, and it's called
dropping the modern day handkerchief. So women should make the
first move, and guess what they've always been doing it
if you look back at the Victorian era. I give
a little bit of history in my book, like a
very small amount.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
But what's the book called.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It's called How to Attract the Right Guy.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
It's on Amazon, but I devote an entire chapter to
it because there's this whole like, oh, he has to
make the first move, how he has to come up
to me, And I'm like, no, we were never doing
that to begin with. Back in the day, the lady
would drop the handkerchief when she saw a guy that
she thought was really cute, and he would pick it
up in the conversation would start. So, really, women weren't
always making the first move women. I'm such a huge
(01:54):
fan and a proponent to women making the first move.
And I'm not saying, like walking up to a guy
in sad no, hi are you single? Like that's not
what we're doing here. No, we're doing the geese. So
we are calling them in with their eyes, our like,
our smile, our energy. Like in the book, I talk
more about it, but I just think that it's so
(02:15):
simple to tell a guy and signal a guy that
I am interested in you come over and talk to me.
And the biggest problem we have now is that when
a girl likes a guy and they're out at the
bar or they're at the beach, they'll.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Like avoid them.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
They're like, oh my god, my god, he's so cud
cate look at them and it's like no, no, no, no,
give him the eyes so that he knows he has
okay to come talk to you.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
M yeah, the handkerchief. That's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yes, absolutely, And it works so well, Like you would
be surprised how well it works when you make the
first move and you were just like opening up your
body language, like square up to him so that he
knows like you are open.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And then if if you're giving him the eyes and
he's not giving it back, like he's not interested, so
you know anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Okay, So there's a fun study that says that men
take up to five times to realize it's for them really, yeah,
And it's funny because it's true though, because I tried
this was like ten years ago. I was in London
and I was in the Henley Regatta and I saw
this beautiful prince looking guy. I mean he was like
six or five, blond hair, blue eyes, like typical bridge,
(03:17):
just gorgeous. And I gave him I dropped the handkerchief
and I gave him the look and it took up
to five times, and I remember he was like me
and I was like yes, and he like came over
like guys will second guess and they're like.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Oh, there's no way it's me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Wow, that's a great note too. Look at you full
of the pearls of wisdom. Because I always say manner
a little bit on a delay, not being rude, but
I found this out from a therapist. Certain men are
on a delay. They don't catch up to what we're
doing and thinking and saying, even in communication styles right away.
They don't. They don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Interesting though, it takes up to five so don't give up.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
He might be taken, like he might be unavailable and
not be married yet and not have a ring. But
if he doesn't have a ring on, he just might
be saying, might as well shoot your shot? Gave him
the eyes, and if he's single, he will come up
to you.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What about the texting and the phone call and the
pen pal stage, First of all, it's from in the apps,
So then you get out of the apps, and I
have told people I'm not looking for a pen pal.
Like it's gotten to the point where it's days and
it's like, what do we do? What are we doing?
I don't care, Like now you're talking, how's your this?
Did you go do that? How is your dinner? Nobody cares.
We don't know each other. Like that's almost like on
(04:24):
the first day telling someone too much. I don't need
to tell you how my stake was because we've been
doing this for three So what's that whole rule? Like,
how do we how much texting should happen, how much
phone calls should happen, how much I believe in FaceTime.
I don't think you should leave the house to go
meet someone until you've seen their face. That's my personal opinion.
And matchmakers, I don't think believe that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No I do.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
If you were dating on an app and you don't
have anyone betting on your behalf and thank.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You, it's you and your phone.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Do not go out with a complete stranger unless you
have done any FaceTime.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Thank you. Amen. You don't understand these twenty six year
old girls. They're like, they're getting up, they're getting dress,
they're doing the lashes, they're spending the money, they're going out,
they're getting in, they go there, They've just some of
them are calffishing and they're I go, what are you doing? Like,
you're right, a matchmaker like you is vetting for someone
You've spoken to them. It doesn't mean it's perfect, but
it means it's you have eyeballs. You said they're good looking,
(05:12):
you're being a girlfriend. These girls are going. I was like,
what it's make it cute, I said, just be like,
oh my god, hey I just got the greatest sushi.
Let's FaceTime like like throw it in so it doesn't
seem weird and like a zoom yeah, or just.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Be like, hey, I'm actually about to get home from work.
We'd love to see you and chat for a second.
Are you free, Like just make it like like you said,
make it where it's not just can you face time?
Like make it where it's more in.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Flow, right, not like it's an interrogation that you need
to vet them. But okay, so let's go through the.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Text waste face time.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Oh wow, I love that you said that because I
said that, I think less. I think said that in
a video or on a live last night, and I
just said it and no one told me about it.
But I was like, what are you doing? Oh was
on here? What are you doing going without seeing their face?
Like cause you could even get a chemistry match from there.
It's a lot cheaper to be home and just look
semi cut with you know, no pants on, because you
don't have to get dressed and put heels on and
then don't waste the outfit.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, and it doesn't have to be I think people
don't realize it doesn't have to be an hour. It
could be five minutes. Like you can learn a lot
in five minutes, Like you can say, okay, I'm at
least physically attracted and there's good energy flow five to
ten minutes. I mean, if it's really flowing like fifteen minutes, great,
But I'm just saying it doesn't have people I think
get scared so are like, oh my god, what if I.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Get stuck on there just saying like you have a
girlfriend coming over or.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
No, that's a good note, Just be like, hey, let's FaceTime.
My friend's coming at five fifteen, but at five o'clock.
So then it's like, oh, hi, yeah, that's a great Exactly.
I think that that is something that people are not
doing and people just need to be doing period the end.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, And here's the beautiful thing. It builds an investment
in that person. Because if you were completely strangers and
you've never met before, and you met on a dating app,
there's not a whole lot of investment. But if you
guys met on FaceTime and you're both attracted to each
other and you both felt a vibe, the likelihood of
that person ghosting is very minimal, way more minimal than
(06:58):
having not seen you.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Before, not having that chemistry flow.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
That's great. So that's an investment. That's brilliant. Yeah, but
what about the texting to the phone overall? Like, how
do you drive that traffic?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Minimal minimal texting before you meet up because you want
to get to know someone in person.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
No, but how do you know you're getting to the Meeta? Hi,
how are you? How's your summer going, it's going great.
Where do you live? I live here? Where do you live?
I live there? What do you like to do? I
like to do this. I like to do that. We
get through the entire like then, okay, what's going on
this weekend? Nothing? Just going to the beat, like how
do we You don't want to be a weirdo? Like
do you want to call me and ask me out?
Or like how do you move from that thing to
the next thing? Because you don't want to be a penpal.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
He has to be the one to make the move. Period.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The biggest mistake I see women make is turn on
the alpha and being that business person and being like, hey,
let's meet for coffee.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's like, let hell, God, let him ask you out.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And if he doesn't, he's not the one, Like he's
just maybe he's not even ready and he's just warming up,
trying and get his feedback into like the world of dating.
But like, people know how to do this. It is
so simple, And if he's not doing it, do not
ask a guy out because then you're steping, because then
you're stepping into your maskline and then you're playing the
mask in the role. We don't want that and it
(08:10):
also doesn't set the right president for moving forward.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I love that. So you're saying make the first move
only in the handkerchief stage. Once you've got the person's attention,
you retreat and you go back, and they're making the
first moves from now on. Yes, So that's critical to
because people will think that you saying make the first
move means all this, and I agree with you. I
don't think that's you know, you're saying, give the nod
(08:34):
and the nuance first, but don't do anything that seems
like you're the aggressor.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I'm saying, literally, open the door for him, and if
he doesn't walk through it, that's on him.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
But your dumb has to open the door.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So I would say the advice for people to crystallize
it is, you know, when you've gotten yourself into the
pen pal stage, you just retreat. Yeah, you just quiet,
You just go quiet quiet.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah. Period, you can get the hint and you know what,
that might put some fire under him to be like okay,
any to ask girl like she's clearly not enjoying this
like texting back and forth thing.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I feel that people that don't have good text banter,
I find that to be a pink flag. I don't
people are weird. Like you text them, they text you, hey,
haw's a day going? You text them back, Then they
don't text you for another two hours, like you're like great,
Then you feel like you're dangling and they're like, oh
I did this, I did that. It was great. Thanks,
and then like they don't tell like they don't know
how to text. I don't like that. I find that
(09:37):
to be like a reflection of them. Do you do
you agree or disagree? Banter and text? Banter and text
is it's great.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
However, there are some people we have to remember we're
not all the same. Some like your perfect match might
not enjoy texting, and so it's so minimal for him
because he's the busy guy. But when you're in person
with him, he gives you that one hundred and ten
percent he's dialed in. So like, we can't I don't
think we can flag it, Okay, I think we can
just say like, oh, it'd be so nice if he
(10:06):
had good banter and text and we were good at
texting back and forth.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
But okay, well, I say this because I was seeing
someone who was long distance. It's not my ex who
is great, and that's kind of what you had because
it's still a person that's long distance. I guess you
could schedule a FaceTime, but then you're getting into like appointments.
So I feel like if you if texting is a
part of your relationship, if it has to be, then
(10:30):
I feel like it has to be fairly good. If
you're not seeing someone on regularly, if it is a.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Long distance situation and you guys aren't even communicating often
enough on text on the phone, then it's just not
gonna work.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Right, And where do you stand on long distance relationships?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
By the way, Oh, I don't think they work.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Okay, that's great. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I just don't.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
There is a rare occasion where I hear someone say
that they move from London to New York for someone
and they're still married.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
But like, that is one in a million.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
You're saying. There are exceptions to all of these things
we're saying. Yeah, you're saying, and it can.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Start off long distance, but it needs to there needs
to be something within the year of like, I'm happy
to move, let me just figure out how much time
it's gonna take me to do that with work and everything.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But there needs to be a plan within the year.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, that's great that you've said within the year. You
give people a lot of prescription, Like I'm saying, you're saying,
it can't be an open ended when the kids go
to college in five years, because you'll be dead by then,
the relationship will be dead. But then you'll waste the time.
So you're saying within the year, you have to have
a bigger game plan.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes, absolutely, and especially at the very beginning, like day two.
If it's long distance, day two needs to be like,
are you open to relocating? Okay, what does that look
like for you? Okay, because what is the point of
falling for someone having crazy chemistry with someone long distance?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
But then no one's even willing to move and no
one can move?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay? What about alcohol? How many mistakes have you heard
people make on dates by getting nervous and drinking too much?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Oh my gosh, you have no idea how many times
people bomb because they over drink and the nerves are
kicking in and they're just numbing, you know, trying to
get rid of those nerves. And I'm like, do breath work,
because the alcohol is number one going to fuzz all
your judgment right. And it's also let's not forget that
drunk chemistry is not real chemistry. I'm most people who
(12:18):
are drunk can get along with that brainbe okay. But
if they're completely sober, that's a different kind of chemistry.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And it's also sloppy and the person could get turned
off by it, and they can overshare, and they can
overshare okay.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Loose lips, too much alcohol, sharing way too much about
yourself that's relatively private with a complete stranger on a
first date.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
You know, it's not a good look. It's not good
for your personal brand.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
It's not good if you're taking dating seriously, learning how
to be confident without alcohol and showing up on these
dates with one glass of wine or one cocktail, that's
that's the right way to go.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Let's talk about oversharing, Like where is the line you
know someone's asking somebody else about their divorce or or
their childhood or things like that. Like is it not
the things you're sharing but the way you're doing it,
Like if it's giving desperation or neediness or something like
how much should you share and not share?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
If you're talking about a first date, this is a
complete stranger, so just keep in mind you might never
see this person again. So is this type of information
you would want a stranger to know about you?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The answers No, then I would withhold great.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
So it could be not a big deal to you,
Like you could say something about your childhood or you
were an orphan or something that is like maybe even
out there, but you don't mind. But if it's sort
of like, oh, I stole my boss's car or something
like that, then you may not want to let somebody.
So you're saying the line is something that you wouldn't
want a complete stranger to know if you never spoke
to them again. Don't tell them tonight, right, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And also match people's energy too, Like if you're on
date five and someone's really ready to be vulnerable because
they're starting to build that trust with you, and they
tell you a little bit more about their childhood and
how they were raised, match that energy, mirrored them and
say and you share too. And I think that that
the way vulnerability should work is we shouldn't just trust
(14:08):
each other from the get go because we're complete strangers.
It should be like a slow getting to know each other,
building the trust and sharing more as we get to
know each other.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Okay, and let's talk about the energy match. I know
that you believe in this. This is one of your things,
So I want to talk about energy match and what
that means. Because you already talked about rock and Star.
So it doesn't mean that the rock has to be boring,
because I in my mind, it's like someone who's somewhat
solid and balanced and boring, and you're saying, that's not that.
So it's just that someone's allowing someone else to be
(14:38):
the peacock. What about the energy match? What exactly do
you mean?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So the energy match is your frequency.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
You know when people meet someone other they're like, oh
my gosh, I loved her vibe, or people say in
the scene Ageic, I love her energy. That to me
like someone's energy and frequency. It has to be an
energetic match. If someone is low vibrational, you know, kind
of negative, like not really all the time, Like I
don't really see that person with someone who's like super happy, optimistic,
(15:04):
go getter always sees, you know, life in a positive way.
Like I think frequency matches is so important.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You almost mean literal energy, like someone's like low vibration
and the other person's active, because that could almost seem
like rock and rock store, and I think that can
be confusing. That could almost seem like peacock and not peacock.
That's why it's confusing to me. You mean like, are
they both go getters or like what exactly do you
mean by energy because you don't mean chemistry.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
No, it's just like a frequency of like you know
when you meet someone and you walk out of the
room and you're like, wow, that person just like brought
me up, Like I feel lighter and I feel better
because they were either really funny or really happy or
they just had that like that aura around them of
high vibrating.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I don't know if I know how to explain it.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
It's just I know what you're saying. You're saying it's
like playing tennis with a better energetic tennis player, Like
you always want to play tennis, are the better tennis
player because it's raising you and not pulling your game down.
So each person should be finding that person that's going
to raise their energy game is what you're kind of saying,
Like it's energetically lifting you up, not meaning like a
in a gospel church, but meaning like you're just like
(16:15):
it's good for you, it's elevating you.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yes, and you'll notice how you feel when you cause
I talk about this in my book. Do the self
check in when you get home from any date, whether
it's the first date, the tent date, always tap in
and say how do I feel right now? Do I
feel bubbly and fun and uplifted or do I feel
super heavy and a little bit drained. Those are things
to look out for because your body will tell.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You if it's mister wrong or wister right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
That's unbelievable because I get that you could sort of
like someone but like they're droning on and you're just like,
shut up. You know, how do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Well, it's funny because you can also be so attracted
to someone and they're so physically what you want, but
then you get homeide do a self check and you're
like like, oh, I don't feel that great, I feel
really heavy, I feel drinmed.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But it's so good looking and like it's kind of funny,
and then you kind of make excuse.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Us for yourself, but you like, I'm supposed to like him.
You're telling yourself you're supposed to like him because of
his packet. That's interesting, But the.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Energy match isn't there. You know, It's like your body
will tell you the energetic.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Match isn't there. You should get home from the date
and feel good.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
You're the only one talking about this that I've heard,
So that's amazing. Like it means like it's like you're
eating food that feels good in your body, like it
makes you feel good. It's not eating junk food. Yeah,
that's what you're saying. It's like emotional junk food. And
that's a harder one because you could be drinking and
having a great time, and you could be out dancing
and distracting, and you're not like when you're gonna be
with this person for five ten years and you're staring
(17:40):
at them on a vacation alone. The energy match has
to be there. So if someone feels like a drag
to you, or they feel like I have a friend,
I'm thinking of that. When they met, they were in
their twenties and going to clubs and drinking and having
fun and going to the Hamptons, and like everybody was
doing that. So even if people who aren't naturally inclined
to do that like every but he was doing that
because they wanted to meet someone. But now that they're married,
(18:03):
like she has to drag him. He doesn't want to
do anything or go anywhere. He wants to any you
know what I mean. So he wants to go to
bed really early, and he's just giving old man vibes.
And she likes to have fun, so she has to
find it with her friends and other people. But I
always wonder if that's good enough, like if your partner
should be where you find it.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
That's a tough situation because then you're constantly compromising on
what makes you happy and doing things with your partner
that makes you happy. So that's really tough, especially how
long have they been married.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Years like years and years. And she says he's a
Jessu drip woof, like she talks to him about that.
So like that, and I've heard that a lot, Like
I have friends that are women that are around my age,
and something kicks in at this age where people want
to like live. We're like, Hi, this is this is
also my life. It's not just me being twenty six.
What are we ordering in for tonight? And we already
(18:53):
had the kids and they're grown, what the hell is
my journey? And they're saying to me like he doesn't
want to do anything, and like they want to live.
This is happening with more women that I hear, Like
the women want to live and the men want to
sit on the couch.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Really, yeah, I haven't heard that.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
But that's tough because if someone isn't wanting to live
and do fun things and they don't have that in
them anymore, you know, I don't have the.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Solution for that, and I don't know that they ever
did in the beginning, is what I'm saying, because you're
masking it with the other things. Like so you're saying,
find that energy match.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yes, definitely find that energy match, and also just have
that transparent conversation with someone like what brings you true happiness?
Like if your true happiness is to stay at home
and isolate and order in or have a chef come over,
whatever it looks like, then you need to have an
honest conversation with yourself. Is that what my happiness looks like?
And if it's a no, then that might not be
(19:48):
a lifestyle match.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
To the aster
Speaker 3 (20:08):
To the after
Please welcome Talia. We met. She is an author, a
dating coach, and a matchmaker.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Hello.
Speaker 1 (00:19):
I hear young people saying that people aren't meeting people
out anymore because everybody's on the apps, and if you're
with a group, people want to approach, and they're all
these different things people are saying. So it's like an
archaic dinosaur sport and everyone's got their head in their
phone to meet people out. So I was talking to
these two young girls, they're twenty six, and they were
saying like, I said, well, are you seeing people that
(00:40):
you think are attractive out that you'd like to go
say hello to? And the one said she would say, yeah,
are you single? I was like, well, that's a terrible
in my opinion, I'm not an expert you are, but
I think I said, that's a terrible opening line. I
would talk about find some way to talk about business
to them or something. Because these girls are food reviewers,
So I was like, you're in a restaurant. You could
say like, Hi, I'm a food reviewer. What did you say?
(01:00):
So it gives you an in that doesn't make you
feel desperate like So I was going to ask you
how people should handle approach and connectivity out in a
social space, by a pool, at a bar, at a casino,
the supermarket, et cetera.
Speaker 3 (01:14):
I love those topics so much because I wrote an
entire chapter about it in my book, and it's called
dropping the modern day handkerchief. So women should make the
first move, and guess what they've always been doing it
if you look back at the Victorian era. I give
a little bit of history in my book, like a
very small amount.
Speaker 1 (01:31):
But what's the book called.
Speaker 2 (01:32):
It's called How to Attract the Right Guy.
Speaker 3 (01:33):
It's on Amazon, but I devote an entire chapter to
it because there's this whole like, oh, he has to
make the first move, how he has to come up
to me, And I'm like, no, we were never doing
that to begin with. Back in the day, the lady
would drop the handkerchief when she saw a guy that
she thought was really cute, and he would pick it
up in the conversation would start. So, really, women weren't
always making the first move women. I'm such a huge
(01:54):
fan and a proponent to women making the first move.
And I'm not saying, like walking up to a guy
in sad no, hi are you single? Like that's not
what we're doing here. No, we're doing the geese. So
we are calling them in with their eyes, our like,
our smile, our energy. Like in the book, I talk
more about it, but I just think that it's so
(02:15):
simple to tell a guy and signal a guy that
I am interested in you come over and talk to me.
And the biggest problem we have now is that when
a girl likes a guy and they're out at the
bar or they're at the beach, they'll.
Speaker 2 (02:28):
Like avoid them.
Speaker 3 (02:28):
They're like, oh my god, my god, he's so cud
cate look at them and it's like no, no, no, no,
give him the eyes so that he knows he has
okay to come talk to you.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
M yeah, the handkerchief. That's brilliant.
Speaker 3 (02:37):
Yes, absolutely, And it works so well, Like you would
be surprised how well it works when you make the
first move and you were just like opening up your
body language, like square up to him so that he
knows like you are open.
Speaker 1 (02:51):
And then if if you're giving him the eyes and
he's not giving it back, like he's not interested, so
you know anyway.
Speaker 3 (02:56):
Okay, So there's a fun study that says that men
take up to five times to realize it's for them really, yeah,
And it's funny because it's true though, because I tried
this was like ten years ago. I was in London
and I was in the Henley Regatta and I saw
this beautiful prince looking guy. I mean he was like
six or five, blond hair, blue eyes, like typical bridge,
(03:17):
just gorgeous. And I gave him I dropped the handkerchief
and I gave him the look and it took up
to five times, and I remember he was like me
and I was like yes, and he like came over
like guys will second guess and they're like.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
Oh, there's no way it's me, you know what I mean.
Speaker 1 (03:30):
Wow, that's a great note too. Look at you full
of the pearls of wisdom. Because I always say manner
a little bit on a delay, not being rude, but
I found this out from a therapist. Certain men are
on a delay. They don't catch up to what we're
doing and thinking and saying, even in communication styles right away.
They don't. They don't know.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Interesting though, it takes up to five so don't give up.
Speaker 3 (03:49):
He might be taken, like he might be unavailable and
not be married yet and not have a ring. But
if he doesn't have a ring on, he just might
be saying, might as well shoot your shot? Gave him
the eyes, and if he's single, he will come up
to you.
Speaker 1 (04:02):
What about the texting and the phone call and the
pen pal stage, First of all, it's from in the apps,
So then you get out of the apps, and I
have told people I'm not looking for a pen pal.
Like it's gotten to the point where it's days and
it's like, what do we do? What are we doing?
I don't care, Like now you're talking, how's your this?
Did you go do that? How is your dinner? Nobody cares.
We don't know each other. Like that's almost like on
(04:24):
the first day telling someone too much. I don't need
to tell you how my stake was because we've been
doing this for three So what's that whole rule? Like,
how do we how much texting should happen, how much
phone calls should happen, how much I believe in FaceTime.
I don't think you should leave the house to go
meet someone until you've seen their face. That's my personal opinion.
And matchmakers, I don't think believe that.
Speaker 2 (04:42):
No I do.
Speaker 3 (04:42):
If you were dating on an app and you don't
have anyone betting on your behalf and thank.
Speaker 2 (04:47):
You, it's you and your phone.
Speaker 3 (04:49):
Do not go out with a complete stranger unless you
have done any FaceTime.
Speaker 1 (04:52):
Thank you. Amen. You don't understand these twenty six year
old girls. They're like, they're getting up, they're getting dress,
they're doing the lashes, they're spending the money, they're going out,
they're getting in, they go there, They've just some of
them are calffishing and they're I go, what are you doing? Like,
you're right, a matchmaker like you is vetting for someone
You've spoken to them. It doesn't mean it's perfect, but
it means it's you have eyeballs. You said they're good looking,
(05:12):
you're being a girlfriend. These girls are going. I was like,
what it's make it cute, I said, just be like,
oh my god, hey I just got the greatest sushi.
Let's FaceTime like like throw it in so it doesn't
seem weird and like a zoom yeah, or just.
Speaker 3 (05:26):
Be like, hey, I'm actually about to get home from work.
We'd love to see you and chat for a second.
Are you free, Like just make it like like you said,
make it where it's not just can you face time?
Like make it where it's more in.
Speaker 1 (05:36):
Flow, right, not like it's an interrogation that you need
to vet them. But okay, so let's go through the.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
Text waste face time.
Speaker 1 (05:44):
Oh wow, I love that you said that because I
said that, I think less. I think said that in
a video or on a live last night, and I
just said it and no one told me about it.
But I was like, what are you doing? Oh was
on here? What are you doing going without seeing their face?
Like cause you could even get a chemistry match from there.
It's a lot cheaper to be home and just look
semi cut with you know, no pants on, because you
don't have to get dressed and put heels on and
then don't waste the outfit.
Speaker 3 (06:05):
Yeah, and it doesn't have to be I think people
don't realize it doesn't have to be an hour. It
could be five minutes. Like you can learn a lot
in five minutes, Like you can say, okay, I'm at
least physically attracted and there's good energy flow five to
ten minutes. I mean, if it's really flowing like fifteen minutes, great,
But I'm just saying it doesn't have people I think
get scared so are like, oh my god, what if I.
Speaker 2 (06:23):
Get stuck on there just saying like you have a
girlfriend coming over or.
Speaker 1 (06:26):
No, that's a good note, Just be like, hey, let's FaceTime.
My friend's coming at five fifteen, but at five o'clock.
So then it's like, oh, hi, yeah, that's a great Exactly.
I think that that is something that people are not
doing and people just need to be doing period the end.
Speaker 3 (06:38):
Yes, And here's the beautiful thing. It builds an investment
in that person. Because if you were completely strangers and
you've never met before, and you met on a dating app,
there's not a whole lot of investment. But if you
guys met on FaceTime and you're both attracted to each
other and you both felt a vibe, the likelihood of
that person ghosting is very minimal, way more minimal than
(06:58):
having not seen you.
Speaker 2 (06:59):
Before, not having that chemistry flow.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
That's great. So that's an investment. That's brilliant. Yeah, but
what about the texting to the phone overall? Like, how
do you drive that traffic?
Speaker 3 (07:08):
Minimal minimal texting before you meet up because you want
to get to know someone in person.
Speaker 1 (07:13):
No, but how do you know you're getting to the Meeta? Hi,
how are you? How's your summer going, it's going great.
Where do you live? I live here? Where do you live?
I live there? What do you like to do? I
like to do this. I like to do that. We
get through the entire like then, okay, what's going on
this weekend? Nothing? Just going to the beat, like how
do we You don't want to be a weirdo? Like
do you want to call me and ask me out?
Or like how do you move from that thing to
the next thing? Because you don't want to be a penpal.
Speaker 2 (07:35):
He has to be the one to make the move. Period.
Speaker 3 (07:39):
The biggest mistake I see women make is turn on
the alpha and being that business person and being like, hey,
let's meet for coffee.
Speaker 2 (07:46):
It's like, let hell, God, let him ask you out.
Speaker 3 (07:49):
And if he doesn't, he's not the one, Like he's
just maybe he's not even ready and he's just warming up,
trying and get his feedback into like the world of dating.
But like, people know how to do this. It is
so simple, And if he's not doing it, do not
ask a guy out because then you're steping, because then
you're stepping into your maskline and then you're playing the
mask in the role. We don't want that and it
(08:10):
also doesn't set the right president for moving forward.
Speaker 1 (08:14):
I love that. So you're saying make the first move
only in the handkerchief stage. Once you've got the person's attention,
you retreat and you go back, and they're making the
first moves from now on. Yes, So that's critical to
because people will think that you saying make the first
move means all this, and I agree with you. I
don't think that's you know, you're saying, give the nod
(08:34):
and the nuance first, but don't do anything that seems
like you're the aggressor.
Speaker 3 (08:38):
I'm saying, literally, open the door for him, and if
he doesn't walk through it, that's on him.
Speaker 2 (08:44):
But your dumb has to open the door.
Speaker 1 (08:45):
So I would say the advice for people to crystallize
it is, you know, when you've gotten yourself into the
pen pal stage, you just retreat. Yeah, you just quiet,
You just go quiet quiet.
Speaker 3 (08:55):
Yeah. Period, you can get the hint and you know what,
that might put some fire under him to be like okay,
any to ask girl like she's clearly not enjoying this
like texting back and forth thing.
Speaker 1 (09:14):
I feel that people that don't have good text banter,
I find that to be a pink flag. I don't
people are weird. Like you text them, they text you, hey,
haw's a day going? You text them back, Then they
don't text you for another two hours, like you're like great,
Then you feel like you're dangling and they're like, oh
I did this, I did that. It was great. Thanks,
and then like they don't tell like they don't know
how to text. I don't like that. I find that
(09:37):
to be like a reflection of them. Do you do
you agree or disagree? Banter and text? Banter and text
is it's great.
Speaker 3 (09:45):
However, there are some people we have to remember we're
not all the same. Some like your perfect match might
not enjoy texting, and so it's so minimal for him
because he's the busy guy. But when you're in person
with him, he gives you that one hundred and ten
percent he's dialed in. So like, we can't I don't
think we can flag it, Okay, I think we can
just say like, oh, it'd be so nice if he
(10:06):
had good banter and text and we were good at
texting back and forth.
Speaker 1 (10:09):
But okay, well, I say this because I was seeing
someone who was long distance. It's not my ex who
is great, and that's kind of what you had because
it's still a person that's long distance. I guess you
could schedule a FaceTime, but then you're getting into like appointments.
So I feel like if you if texting is a
part of your relationship, if it has to be, then
(10:30):
I feel like it has to be fairly good. If
you're not seeing someone on regularly, if it is a.
Speaker 3 (10:34):
Long distance situation and you guys aren't even communicating often
enough on text on the phone, then it's just not
gonna work.
Speaker 1 (10:41):
Right, And where do you stand on long distance relationships?
Speaker 2 (10:43):
By the way, Oh, I don't think they work.
Speaker 1 (10:46):
Okay, that's great. I don't know.
Speaker 2 (10:48):
I just don't.
Speaker 3 (10:50):
There is a rare occasion where I hear someone say
that they move from London to New York for someone
and they're still married.
Speaker 2 (10:55):
But like, that is one in a million.
Speaker 1 (10:57):
You're saying. There are exceptions to all of these things
we're saying. Yeah, you're saying, and it can.
Speaker 3 (11:01):
Start off long distance, but it needs to there needs
to be something within the year of like, I'm happy
to move, let me just figure out how much time
it's gonna take me to do that with work and everything.
Speaker 2 (11:10):
But there needs to be a plan within the year.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Well, that's great that you've said within the year. You
give people a lot of prescription, Like I'm saying, you're saying,
it can't be an open ended when the kids go
to college in five years, because you'll be dead by then,
the relationship will be dead. But then you'll waste the time.
So you're saying within the year, you have to have
a bigger game plan.
Speaker 3 (11:27):
Yes, absolutely, and especially at the very beginning, like day two.
If it's long distance, day two needs to be like,
are you open to relocating? Okay, what does that look
like for you? Okay, because what is the point of
falling for someone having crazy chemistry with someone long distance?
Speaker 2 (11:43):
But then no one's even willing to move and no
one can move?
Speaker 1 (11:47):
Okay? What about alcohol? How many mistakes have you heard
people make on dates by getting nervous and drinking too much?
Speaker 3 (11:55):
Oh my gosh, you have no idea how many times
people bomb because they over drink and the nerves are
kicking in and they're just numbing, you know, trying to
get rid of those nerves. And I'm like, do breath work,
because the alcohol is number one going to fuzz all
your judgment right. And it's also let's not forget that
drunk chemistry is not real chemistry. I'm most people who
(12:18):
are drunk can get along with that brainbe okay. But
if they're completely sober, that's a different kind of chemistry.
Speaker 1 (12:24):
And it's also sloppy and the person could get turned
off by it, and they can overshare, and they can
overshare okay.
Speaker 3 (12:32):
Loose lips, too much alcohol, sharing way too much about
yourself that's relatively private with a complete stranger on a
first date.
Speaker 2 (12:38):
You know, it's not a good look. It's not good
for your personal brand.
Speaker 3 (12:41):
It's not good if you're taking dating seriously, learning how
to be confident without alcohol and showing up on these
dates with one glass of wine or one cocktail, that's
that's the right way to go.
Speaker 1 (12:53):
Let's talk about oversharing, Like where is the line you
know someone's asking somebody else about their divorce or or
their childhood or things like that. Like is it not
the things you're sharing but the way you're doing it,
Like if it's giving desperation or neediness or something like
how much should you share and not share?
Speaker 2 (13:10):
Well, here's the thing.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
If you're talking about a first date, this is a
complete stranger, so just keep in mind you might never
see this person again. So is this type of information
you would want a stranger to know about you?
Speaker 2 (13:23):
The answers No, then I would withhold great.
Speaker 1 (13:25):
So it could be not a big deal to you,
Like you could say something about your childhood or you
were an orphan or something that is like maybe even
out there, but you don't mind. But if it's sort
of like, oh, I stole my boss's car or something
like that, then you may not want to let somebody.
So you're saying the line is something that you wouldn't
want a complete stranger to know if you never spoke
to them again. Don't tell them tonight, right, Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 3 (13:48):
And also match people's energy too, Like if you're on
date five and someone's really ready to be vulnerable because
they're starting to build that trust with you, and they
tell you a little bit more about their childhood and
how they were raised, match that energy, mirrored them and
say and you share too. And I think that that
the way vulnerability should work is we shouldn't just trust
(14:08):
each other from the get go because we're complete strangers.
It should be like a slow getting to know each other,
building the trust and sharing more as we get to
know each other.
Speaker 1 (14:17):
Okay, and let's talk about the energy match. I know
that you believe in this. This is one of your things,
So I want to talk about energy match and what
that means. Because you already talked about rock and Star.
So it doesn't mean that the rock has to be boring,
because I in my mind, it's like someone who's somewhat
solid and balanced and boring, and you're saying, that's not that.
So it's just that someone's allowing someone else to be
(14:38):
the peacock. What about the energy match? What exactly do
you mean?
Speaker 2 (14:42):
So the energy match is your frequency.
Speaker 3 (14:44):
You know when people meet someone other they're like, oh
my gosh, I loved her vibe, or people say in
the scene Ageic, I love her energy. That to me
like someone's energy and frequency. It has to be an
energetic match. If someone is low vibrational, you know, kind
of negative, like not really all the time, Like I
don't really see that person with someone who's like super happy, optimistic,
(15:04):
go getter always sees, you know, life in a positive way.
Like I think frequency matches is so important.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
You almost mean literal energy, like someone's like low vibration
and the other person's active, because that could almost seem
like rock and rock store, and I think that can
be confusing. That could almost seem like peacock and not peacock.
That's why it's confusing to me. You mean like, are
they both go getters or like what exactly do you
mean by energy because you don't mean chemistry.
Speaker 3 (15:32):
No, it's just like a frequency of like you know
when you meet someone and you walk out of the
room and you're like, wow, that person just like brought
me up, Like I feel lighter and I feel better
because they were either really funny or really happy or
they just had that like that aura around them of
high vibrating.
Speaker 2 (15:51):
I don't know if I know how to explain it.
Speaker 1 (15:53):
It's just I know what you're saying. You're saying it's
like playing tennis with a better energetic tennis player, Like
you always want to play tennis, are the better tennis
player because it's raising you and not pulling your game down.
So each person should be finding that person that's going
to raise their energy game is what you're kind of saying,
Like it's energetically lifting you up, not meaning like a
in a gospel church, but meaning like you're just like
(16:15):
it's good for you, it's elevating you.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
Yes, and you'll notice how you feel when you cause
I talk about this in my book. Do the self
check in when you get home from any date, whether
it's the first date, the tent date, always tap in
and say how do I feel right now? Do I
feel bubbly and fun and uplifted or do I feel
super heavy and a little bit drained. Those are things
to look out for because your body will tell.
Speaker 2 (16:37):
You if it's mister wrong or wister right.
Speaker 1 (16:39):
That's unbelievable because I get that you could sort of
like someone but like they're droning on and you're just like,
shut up. You know, how do you deal with that?
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Well, it's funny because you can also be so attracted
to someone and they're so physically what you want, but
then you get homeide do a self check and you're
like like, oh, I don't feel that great, I feel
really heavy, I feel drinmed.
Speaker 2 (17:02):
But it's so good looking and like it's kind of funny,
and then you kind of make excuse.
Speaker 1 (17:07):
Us for yourself, but you like, I'm supposed to like him.
You're telling yourself you're supposed to like him because of
his packet. That's interesting, But the.
Speaker 3 (17:13):
Energy match isn't there. You know, It's like your body
will tell you the energetic.
Speaker 2 (17:17):
Match isn't there. You should get home from the date
and feel good.
Speaker 1 (17:20):
You're the only one talking about this that I've heard,
So that's amazing. Like it means like it's like you're
eating food that feels good in your body, like it
makes you feel good. It's not eating junk food. Yeah,
that's what you're saying. It's like emotional junk food. And
that's a harder one because you could be drinking and
having a great time, and you could be out dancing
and distracting, and you're not like when you're gonna be
with this person for five ten years and you're staring
(17:40):
at them on a vacation alone. The energy match has
to be there. So if someone feels like a drag
to you, or they feel like I have a friend,
I'm thinking of that. When they met, they were in
their twenties and going to clubs and drinking and having
fun and going to the Hamptons, and like everybody was
doing that. So even if people who aren't naturally inclined
to do that like every but he was doing that
because they wanted to meet someone. But now that they're married,
(18:03):
like she has to drag him. He doesn't want to
do anything or go anywhere. He wants to any you
know what I mean. So he wants to go to
bed really early, and he's just giving old man vibes.
And she likes to have fun, so she has to
find it with her friends and other people. But I
always wonder if that's good enough, like if your partner
should be where you find it.
Speaker 3 (18:20):
That's a tough situation because then you're constantly compromising on
what makes you happy and doing things with your partner
that makes you happy. So that's really tough, especially how
long have they been married.
Speaker 1 (18:32):
Years like years and years. And she says he's a
Jessu drip woof, like she talks to him about that.
So like that, and I've heard that a lot, Like
I have friends that are women that are around my age,
and something kicks in at this age where people want
to like live. We're like, Hi, this is this is
also my life. It's not just me being twenty six.
What are we ordering in for tonight? And we already
(18:53):
had the kids and they're grown, what the hell is
my journey? And they're saying to me like he doesn't
want to do anything, and like they want to live.
This is happening with more women that I hear, Like
the women want to live and the men want to
sit on the couch.
Speaker 2 (19:06):
Really, yeah, I haven't heard that.
Speaker 3 (19:09):
But that's tough because if someone isn't wanting to live
and do fun things and they don't have that in
them anymore, you know, I don't have the.
Speaker 1 (19:19):
Solution for that, and I don't know that they ever
did in the beginning, is what I'm saying, because you're
masking it with the other things. Like so you're saying,
find that energy match.
Speaker 3 (19:28):
Yes, definitely find that energy match, and also just have
that transparent conversation with someone like what brings you true happiness?
Like if your true happiness is to stay at home
and isolate and order in or have a chef come over,
whatever it looks like, then you need to have an
honest conversation with yourself. Is that what my happiness looks like?
And if it's a no, then that might not be
(19:48):
a lifestyle match.
Speaker 2 (20:03):
To the aster
Speaker 3 (20:08):
To the after
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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