Melissa Ben-Ishay

On knowing who you are and making life sweeter. Melissa Ben-Ishay is the creator, President and Chief Product Officer of Baked by Melissa—a cupcake company known for its colorful and creative treats.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:12):
Sunships were always marketed in your mind because it says
son on it has a sunshine in the front, that
that was sort of healthy. And then when you look
at the back and you look at all the ingredients,
there's like fifty ingredients, and I always say eat things
with ingredients you can pronounce. Uh. So I then realized
that sonships are just called sonships, and so that's a
great name because it just seems sort of like a

(00:33):
healthy snack for kids. When Friedo's the three ingredients on
a Friedo's bag or corn oil and salt. But Friedo's
are marketed to be like f like fried like they're
fried doughs. Like you just think that they're just bad.
And I'm not saying the Friedo's are good and that
any of these bagged snacks are good, But corn oil

(00:54):
and salt is better than the twenty ingredients on a
chip that's marketed is healthy. Now it's go on to
the other healthy chips, the Keene watch chips, the Lentil chips,
the pop chips, the air popped chips, the baked chips. Okay,
if you look at the pop chips, it'll have between
a hundred and thirty and a hundred and fifty calories

(01:14):
per serving. It's usually twenty eight grams. Okay, go to
the tortilla chip bag, which you and your mind probably
think is like bad tortilla chips. Will also just say
corn oil and salt. But this is like your tortilla
chip bag, the thing that you eat chips and guacamole with,
right that, in your mind is not a healthy chip.
That's like you're eating a bag of Mexican restaurant guacamole chips, right,

(01:38):
But then pop chips and pop corners and air chips
and sun chips and lentil chips and keen watch chips
and all these chips that are so healthy and air
popped and baked and all that bullshit and air puff
and all this crap. They have the exact same number
of calories and pretty much close and fat as the

(01:59):
gua gamoli tortilla bag chip. So the whole chip genre
is a scam. Eat the chips you like, look at
the back of the bag. Make sure that they don't
have a lot of ingredients or artificial colors or flavors,
and that they don't have ingredients you can't pronounce, and
that it seems fairly simple, and look at how many

(02:20):
grams the serving sizes. But mark my words, unless it's
a tiny, little the one of those little insulting bags
of chips, it has three chips in some air, it's
gonna be grams and like hundred and fifty calories per serving.
So eat the goddamn chips that you like, put them
in a little bowl, have a serving, have at it.

(02:43):
Just don't eat the whole bag. Because the healthy ones
are the ones that you think that you can eat
the whole bag. That's the problem. That's the real reason
for the scam, at least the ones that are orange
and have ninety five ingredients. You know you shouldn't be
eating the whole entire bag. So really you end up
eating more of the ones that you think are healthy.
And oh, my skinny girl, microwave popcorn phenomenal beyond, like literally,

(03:06):
I think it's number two and low calorie microwave popcorn.
It's beyond. It's phenomenal, And there is no scam. It's
lower in calories than any of those it's not at all.
I told you about the chip scam. But try it.
You don't like it, you can complain here. What do
you think? What do you think about bagged chip scams?
My guest today is Melissa ben Ishe the creator of

(03:29):
Baits by Melissa. I'm such a fan of her and
her iconic miniature cupcakes. They are the go to dessert
for my daughter's birthdays. Today, Melissa shares with us how
she went from being fired from one job to launching
her bakery in literally just a few days. While she
is completely a free spirit, she also knows how to

(03:49):
follow her business instincts. She is the only guest so
far whose love for the grateful dead has led to
a multimillion dollar business. I'm fascinated by her ability to
pivot during the pandemic, not only thriving financially, but finding
a way to bring people together during such a stressful time.
This one is a real treat. You are going to
love her, and you're gonna love this podcast. Nice to

(04:18):
meet you. Nice to meet you too. I feel like
we've met, but we haven't. But you're one of our
earlier supporters, so I appreciate it. I am. My daughter
loves your cupcakes and I always buy them in soho
that is that location is still open. We do have
a Soho window. That's very similar to the like original

(04:40):
Soho window. It's just like two blocks piece of the original. Um. Okay,
so you are Melissa and your business is baked by Melissa,
and I want to hear about your whole sort of
journey and your business and your struggles and your triumphs
and your TikTok uh and being a woman in business

(05:02):
and all that good stuff. So where where do you live?
You live in the city. I live in Hoboken, but
my business is based out of Manhattan. And you work
from home or you go somewhere. I go to the
office most days. I'm actually filming TikTok content today, so
we do that at my house. It's just easier because

(05:24):
I have a nice, bright white kitchen. Interesting. Um do
you find is TikTok now a business? Is it actually lucrative?
Because I think a lot of years ago, when I
wanted to do TikTok a social media person told me
it was really for eight to thirteen year old and
then it became more mom tent during the pandemic, and
I think a lot of people are wondering, like, what's

(05:45):
up with it? What's what is it for kids? Is
it for dancing. What's the point? So for you, is
it actually a business? Now? It depends how you look
at a business. So we know that when we're top
of mind for are our customers. That helps drive traffic
to our website. And for a while, I found myself

(06:07):
on TikTok like just enjoying the content. So right then
and there, I knew if I we so our customer
is Jordan's she's a mom, working mom just like me.
I am our customer and I'm like, well, if I'm
spending time on TikTok, then our customers are too. And
I became like obsessed. And it turns out that I

(06:28):
am a big part of what makes our TikTok successful,
just creating. So we're just figuring out like how to
use the advertising on TikTok. And you know, once a
week we post the video of a limited edition cupcake
we have available where I'm making it. But it's also
a great creative outlet. It's giving me an opportunity to

(06:50):
do what I do best. And it's crazy. I see
people and they only want to talk about my TikTok.
So it's working. Is it direct monetization? In? Can I
tell you how much revenue TikTok is bringing in. No,
but it's keeping us top of mind. The brand's awareness
is incredible, and that's the first step. Okay. So you're
saying it's a flagship store, it's an advertisement. But directly

(07:15):
money directly coming into your bank account as a result
of posting these videos is not what's happening. It's basically
you're doing commercials showing who you are as a personality,
as an influencer, as a health advocate, as a mom.
It's that, is that what you're saying. Yes, I am
a creator first, and I would love for people to
look at Big Bye Melissa's TikTok as a place to

(07:37):
go to find recipes for everyday life. Got it? Okay,
I understand. Um, So it's PR two, it's not because
I don't think everyone understands that. So it's effectively like
a good PR strategy, and you get to drive the
message yourself very organically, literally, organically and figuratively organically. Okay.

(08:00):
So are you a chef by trade or you're just
a person who has a passion for healthy food. I
love food. I think about food all the time. I
can tell you what I'm having for lunch today because
I've been thinking about it since yesterday. Is that weird?
I just love food so much? What are you having
for lunch today? So? I made this mushroom soup that
my brother made for Thanksgiving and it was so good

(08:20):
that I made it when I got home from Thanksgiving.
I didn't make it a TikTok yet because I didn't
have the time. Um, so I'm gonna have that soup.
And then I also made marinated tofu with this me
so dressing that actually did go viral on TikTok, and
so I'm going to have that too, probably on like
a wrap or something. And and you clean up after

(08:41):
yourself when you do these videos, because I feel like
your kitchen must be a bomb every day. Yes, well
it's funny. So the savory recipes, the salads in particular,
I've been cooking, Like the best part of COVID is
that I had time to cook dinner for my family
every single day. I love to cook. I've been doing
that every day for the past thirteen years, whether it's
a TikTok or not. So the all of the savory

(09:04):
recipes that you see on TikTok, that's me in my kitchen,
either when my kids are watching TV on winding from
the day or whether when my husband's giving them a bath.
That's just me doing it. Because I'm going to cook
this thing anyway, I might as well make a great
TikTok out of it. Oh nice? And and who's filming them?
You know, you do it automat. You know how to
set it up so it's filming you like on a tripod. Yeah.

(09:26):
So so for all of the savory stuff, I just
have a tripod that I got on Amazon and I
just like put it. I have an eye for I
like it. It's a hobby. And then all of the
baked like the dessert um, I do with someone on
my team named Kathleen. She's sitting right here, um and

(09:47):
we spend Thursday, usually Thursdays together in my apartment. My
kids are obsessed with her and we bake like ten
recipes every Thursday. Okay, so you're built for this. This
isn't what we were going to talk about. But I'm
we just went into this road because you're built for this.
I'm not built for this. So I like to cook,
but just when I like to. I don't know if
you know what a tripod is. I don't even understand

(10:08):
social media. I don't know how to edit anything. I
don't I've never I don't own a lot at this laptop.
I'm honest. I think it's my assistance. I think its
landed from the sky. I don't have an iPad like.
So I'm fascinated by people like you who just naturally
have this gift for this, this modern sort of era
of what's going on. You're very lucky, like it doesn't
come naturally to me. I watched these moms, and it's

(10:30):
great that this has become this outlet for people. You're
already doing it, so it's just a new modern way
to sort of market what you're doing. And also as
a person that is a natural food chef that went
to school for food and healing, that's had a wheat
egg and very free baked goods company, who knows you're
baked by Melissa cupcakes. I watch that you're making salads,

(10:51):
which is not what you're selling. You're selling cupcakes. So
it's interesting because Stacy's pea chips, she was making sandwiches.
She was selling sandwiches on the street in the cold
in Boston. And the one thing that you can't run
out of when you're selling sandwiches is bread. You can
run out of salami or cheese or whatever, you can't
run out of bread. So they always had extra bread

(11:12):
and she would make these pieda chips, and that's what
she ended up selling for hundreds of millions of dollars
twenty years ago, that business. And I'm watching you and
I feel like it could end up being your salads
and this other healthy world that ends up being your ultimate,
real big success in calling cards. So I for entrepreneurs listening.

(11:33):
You never really know what road is going to be
the right road. You know, all roads leads to Rome,
and you've got to be in the car and and
sort of have your eyes open and look for the signs.
So that's what I'm getting from you and watching your content.
You're eating these sexy salads and you're like crunching that
ship like you're making love to it, and you're not

(11:53):
making love to the cupcakes. So I just wonder, you
know what's going to happen with this business. Well, it's
funny that you say that you think it's so important
to be able to follow your heart and just to
like go with your gut and intuition, and that's something
I've only really learned. I think I learned it six
years ago when I became a mom, that I actually
have these maternal instincts for my business. And it gave

(12:15):
me the sense of confidence through learning and my experiences
that I never had before. As far as TikTok goes,
you know, the technology side of it not my thing either,
But I spent time on the app, and I experimented
under my own like Melissa Banish I for a while
before I actually I uploaded something that went viral under Mine.

(12:35):
I was like, oh my god, I have to use
this for bake by Melissa. I just trust it. I
just knew there was an opportunity to learn it. And
the platform is super intuitive. You can do it. And
I've seen your TikTok's too, and I do think there's
something there. I think what makes TikTok incredible different from
any other social media platform is that anyone could be
successful at it if you give it your time, like
your your time. And I am a scrap booker first

(12:58):
and foremost, and so to me, TikTok is a virtual scrapbook,
so I get it interesting, like I love it. I
get it too. It's the next iteration of someone like
Justin Bieber becoming famous because of all these sort of
YouTube videos. It's just been next iteration of that. We've
just gone away from traditional media, and I think that
that's so interesting. No one's really picking up magazines unless

(13:20):
you're sitting in a nail salon anymore. So it's just
an evolution. So you as an entrepreneur, have you always
considered yourself an entrepreneur? It's a great question, yes, but

(13:43):
I didn't believe it always. Well that's your impostor syndrome
thing you talk about you You you haven't. We had
a traditional vision about what an entrepreneur was and that's
not you. So now you're sort of fitting into your
own skin of being a non traditional entrepreneur, which is
what literally everybody and I speak to here has had
a non traditional road to success. So that's kind of

(14:03):
what I want to hear about your upbringing, your relationship
to success in money and work ethic, and how you
got into this. I've heard that you've you got fired,
you failed, So how did you start? What did you
want to be when you grew up? And how did
you get to be this mom trepreneur. So growing up,

(14:25):
I had two wonderful, supportive parents. I still do so
not have. I have two wonderful and supportive parents. I
have an older brother who is my best friend. And
my mom always tells the story of how on the
way home from the hospital when I was born, my
brother was like, Melissa, that's a tree and that's a house,
like trying to teach me. And I love that story

(14:45):
because he's still the same with me today, like he's
trying to teach me. And growing up, my dad was
in the family business, so the dinner cop we had
eight dinner the family most nights of the week, I
would hear the talk about business. My brother was very
entrepreneurial and very into business at a very early age.

(15:08):
He went to Syracuse University and he was in the
School of Entrepreneurship and Business, whereas I was very interested
in business because that's what I was around all the time.
I followed him to Syracuse. I was a child and
Family studies major. I it was like a like a
earthy no, like like a pothead, like I'm not really yeah,

(15:31):
Like I wasn't really into school. I knew that I
just needed to get by. I would like go to
the gym every day, hang out with my friends, and
like make sure I was like passing. But I love
talking to my friends about business and you know, not
my A lot of my guy friends were in the
business school, and so it was fun. It was fun

(15:52):
to talk about business. I understood it. I think you
need something an idea that people either need or want,
then you can do it. I believe that, and you know,
that's what excites me and motivates me to work my
ass off every single day. So I got by. In college,
I was excited about the interview process of getting a job.

(16:15):
I didn't know what I wanted to do, but I
knew that I just needed to get as many interviews
as I could. And I understood like going there, ask
them about themselves, what they like about their job, what
they think, you know, whatever, and it works. I guess
I'm good at the interview process. I got a job
that I didn't like. I stayed there for seven months.
It was like so boring, but I made good friends.

(16:36):
That's actually where I was when I made my first
badge of tidy cupcakes. They were grateful, dead themed for
a coworker. Then I got another job in advertising, which
is the one I was fired from. And the day
I was fired, I went to my brother's office, crying
from my cubicle, packing up my stuff. Go fired. He said, great,
it's the best thing that ever happened to you. Go home,

(16:57):
baker cup cakes, will start a business together. Was that
How old were you? That was? I was twenty four?
Uh that was June two thousand eight. He had just
moved into his very first office. He had a company
called muse Box Media, building websites for clients. I went
home from his office the day I was fired, and

(17:18):
I baked four batchelors of cupcakes. Big cupcakes, not bite,
says my tie die that I had been known for
since baking those grateful dead tie die cup cakes, I
started baking them for everyone and anyone, because creating things
with my hands like makes me so happy. But then
to be able to give them to somebody as a
way to make the people I love happy for me,

(17:41):
that's everything. And that's what I get to do, truly
through Baked by Melissa Um and really through TikTok now,
which is why I love it. Yeah, I could tell
I get it out and you're wearing a tie die sweatshirt.
But I'm getting that now, getting it. So it's the
message for people listening. You're really doing exactly what you love.
So it's for me. I don't like sort of structure
and that kind of organization and like having to have

(18:02):
like a tripod or delighting like that all suffocates me.
I like sitting right here and talking and being curious
and just venting and ranting and going. So it's just different.
Like I'm getting why you're loving that you get to
sit down and create and share and talk about it,
and I'm getting it. I'm getting it. So I like that.
But but I I'm not good at structure an organization either.

(18:25):
I I can relate to that so much. I do
know that I need to sort. And I'm sure you
know this too, Like you surround yourself with with people
who are superstructured and organized to to balance your your strength. Well,
that's so funny, because I'm the most organized person you've
ever met in your life. There's not a mess nothing.
I just can't be shackled and we both probably have

(18:46):
that in common. I can't be like in a formatted
television show where you have to say something, do something
be something. I was terrible at a talk show because
it was a traffic cop and I felt trapped. It's
so funny. That's so I look at I'm not going
to say the name, but there are certain like talk
show hosts. 'm like, oh my god, that sounds like
the most. She's been doing it for so many years.

(19:07):
Like I don't blame her, like it's crazy, Like you
have no idea, You have no idea how terrible it is.
People that do that well make it look easy. It
is sheer torture. That nothing is worse than people like
on you like a pit crew from seven in the morning,
about what you want to eat, about the cleavage, your lipstick,

(19:27):
your hem, the color, the background florals for spring. It's
a ship show. Clorox is advertising and when we come
back and after the break, ship show hated it. Okay,
So back to you. So you are twenty four, you
start baking cupcakes. Um, your brother believes in you. He's
your sort of mentor and spirit animal. And you've been

(19:49):
doing this for how many years now? Eighteen years now? Baking? Yeah,
I always love to bake. And there's like, like one
of my profile pictures on Facebook was like rear old
Melissa standing on a kitchen chair next to my dad
making something like but I mean professionally monetizing it. Oh
well at that point. So today it's been thirteen years.

(20:11):
At the point that I was fired, I wasn't I
wasn't selling. I was just doing it as a hobby. Okay,
So it's been thirteen years, uh four fourteen years? You
considering are you successful? Now? Are you making money? Do
you can you do what you want? Is this a
very successful business? By my definition of success is working

(20:32):
hard towards things that you love. And I have the
opportunity to work hard towards Bike By Melissa and my family.
I work my assaut for them. Um. But yes, I
am also successful. I make a living, I support my family.
My husband is also actually employed by Baked by Melissa.
We met the day I opened that Soho window on

(20:55):
Spring Street. Wow. So he's so you work together and
do you own the business together? That's it? There are
no partners. Do you have investors? No? So I have
the equity in Baked by Melissa that you know, like
if you're married, fine, we share everything. But but so
that's my ownership and I do have so the story

(21:17):
of Baked by Melissa is like people always ask, oh,
how much capital did you raise? You know, like people
go to this like really structured place like Oh no,
Like I actually surrounded myself with people who had skills
that I didn't, which is it's one of my mantras
in life to this day. So I went home, baked
those cupcakes, set them into work with my best friend's

(21:38):
little sister. She was interning at a very well on
PR agency, and the caterer for the PR agency was
there and the own Alison Broad from Alison Broad. Alison
connected me to Ben the day the day after I
was fired, and Ben calls me that day, the day
after the Melissa's ben Zion, I'd like to bring you

(21:59):
to my house for tasting. So I went there. He's
one of my co founders. My brother is one of
my co founders. It's it's it's a whole. So you
have partners. Ben is your partner. He's my co founder. Yes,
I'm the only founder who's involved in the business today. Okay,
so he's your co founder. He's not involved in the
business anymore. What is the what can are you allowed

(22:20):
to say? What sales? How much sales you're doing and
what the goal is and you let's talk like specific
business numbers. We typically don't go into too much detail.
We're privately owned, but since two thousand and eighteen, we've
tripled our eCOM revenue. Okay, and what is the goal?
Do you want to keep this business in your family?
Do you want to sell it? Do you need to

(22:41):
take on a bigger partner to really grow? What struggles
are you having with having do you still consider yourself
a small business? By definition? Bake by Meliss is a
small business. We're growing. I think one of my struggles
or something I am aware of every day is I
we have to keep acting small as we grow. Like

(23:05):
my passion and love for Bake by Melissa absolutely plays
role in our success. I know that my crazy I'm
fucking crazy, sorry I said buck, But like like a lunatic, like,
it's the people. The people are what allows us to
grow this thing. I get to like take credit for it,
you know, to the public, like I get to talk

(23:25):
to you today, How cool is that? But it's my team,
Like I'm the face of my whole team working hard.
So I think there are a lot of things that
I'm focused on today that I wasn't always focused on
because I just had more bandwidth to like know everyone's
birthday and what they like for dinner and all of
these things. But I think that play is really big girl.
We are we do want strategic partner or we want

(23:50):
to have the ability to grow more. I have never
had so much faith in this company. I became CEO
of Bake by Melissa two years ago next week actually,
and I never wanted to be CEO. I didn't have
any aspirations to be in this role. But under a
certain circumstances, my board was like, yep, Melissa is going

(24:11):
to be interim CEO of Fake By Melissa will figure
it out. And then two months later we were in
a global pandemic and how like it was the best
experience outside of my comfort zone. Hold on, slow down,
because people listening are budding entrepreneurs and they've learned through
the show that there are so many different roads. So
you said a couple of things. So first of all,

(24:31):
my business is probably around a hundred million dollars. I
don't know if I consider that to still be a
small business. Okay, you, um, I don't have a board.
You have a board. I don't really have a CEO
that's sort of been named because I don't have a
board that said there had to be one. I have
a CEO, which I didn't have in this whole decade
until last year. So for people listening, there are so

(24:54):
many ways to do this, and none of us really
know what we're doing, which is why, Melissa you've talked
about in pastor synd own. Because one day you'll wake
up and all of a sudden you'll say, wait a second,
maybe I should bring on somebody who's gonna give me
money and then they're gonna infuse, they'll be a strategic
partner so I don't have to be so stressed all
the time. And then someone like Mark Cuban will say, well,
what do you want the money for? Because then you
have some different boss telling you. It's like there's so

(25:16):
many different ways, and you have to figure out for
yourself whether you want a partner, whether you want a board,
whether you want a CEO, whether you're the CEO. Like,
there's no right answer, so hold on. So you have
how many employees do you have that work for the company?
Bake Melissa, how many employees are there? Down to uh,
salaried employees. Let's say, well, so we have the bakery,
and we have retail, and we have our corporate office

(25:38):
and all together that's around two that's a big that's
a see that. To me, that's not a small business.
That's a big miss. I have ten people, twelve people
including literally my driver, like I to twelve people. So
you would think it's nice. It's not. Yeah, it's nice.
So you have two hundred people. We could be making
the same amount of money because you you could be

(25:59):
selling more are or less, but you have more people
to pay. I have bigger expenses. I mean, it's so
many different ways to do it. So you have two
people and you have a board. So what when did
you create a board? And what do you do as
a CEO? What does all that mean? Because you're this
free spirit? Yes, and I'm more of a free spirit
than you, because I don't have a CEO. I am

(26:20):
the CEO, but I don't even know what that means.
So that's all beyond me. So we found that the
company in two thousand and eight. My brother was like
the vision, like it's his vision, and that that really
started and built Baked by Melissa. He did all the
ship that I didn't want to do. He also was
our CEO. So one day into the thousand and nine,
let's say he went around to like me and my

(26:41):
co founders and divisions, like, I want to be CEO
and he should be. He was absolutely the leader and
at the end of the day, there needs to be
one person making the decisions. When I hear that there
are close CEOs for a business, I'm like, what how
does that work? But okay, oh yeah, okay, so I'm
the CEO, Yes, exactly. It's the person who has it
all on them no matter what it's like when COVID

(27:03):
hits like I'm the one and that's not you know
it is, Well, it wasn't me. I had my big
brother telling me what to do, and so he was
our CEO for eight years. I oversaw the product that
was the face of the brands. You know, I was
the Penny Lane right like the like the inspiration and
whatever the brand. And then the talent. You were the talent, yes,

(27:26):
the talent. And then my brother is like a true entrepreneur,
he needed to go and continue creating like running uh,
like small business is not like where he excels, which
I and I saw that firsthand. He wasn't really happy anymore.
So we hired his replacement, who was incredible. He he

(27:50):
had this incredible experience. He was my biggest fan. He
his greatest strength was people and empowering people. And he
used to me all the time, like, you could be
a sea level executive. You could do anything. And what
I learned from him is that it's not rocket science.
I needed that so bad. He also brought me back
to life. Working with my brother was incredible, Like we're

(28:12):
still best friends. But for all of you out there
who have siblings, try working with your sibling. That was
probably the most challenging thing, not to mention the fact
that I have I'm one of five co founders. We
all have this tremendous love and passion for this one child. Essentially,
can you imagine, Oh my god, No, I don't I
want to get into that, because I'm I don't understand

(28:34):
how during a pandemic having fourteen locations and how an
e commerce business is paying five founders and two hundred employees.
And I know you're not getting into details because I'm not.
I'm not I'm not being nosy. I actually want to
understand how you're managing that. That doesn't sound easy because
people are listening want to scale their business and trust

(28:56):
and believe, if I had two hundred employees and five founders,
I would be broke. So yes, okay. So the CEO
that we hired, I loved him. He brought me back
to life and he taught me so much. And then unfortunately,
on December fifth, two and nineteen, it comes to light
that he did something illegal at a previous job and

(29:16):
he fled guilty to it, and so he couldn't be
our CEO anymore. That's it. Sorry and wow. And at
the end of the day, you know what, it's always
been on me? Right who who? I? I went into
my investor's office and I said, don't worry. I knew
I had to be common, cool as a cucumber, and
like I am, like that's my whatever. Everything's always okay,
Like it's fine. As long as you have your health,

(29:37):
it's gonna it's gonna be fine. So I went in
there and I was like, it's gonna be okay, don't worry,
it's gonna be Like what are we gonna do? It's
gonna be fine. We we a board call, so like
who's on our board? You know, my brother picked somebody
that he, you know, had great relationship with. My investor
has somebody who he put on our board. It's like
at an advisory it's when ship like this happens, who

(30:00):
you gonna call? Who do you trust to get together
to be like what the hell are you gonna do?
So we had a we decided to have a board
call that evening at six pm. I'm standing that's my bedroom.
I'm standing in the door of my bedroom on the
board call, and they're like, Melissa's Melissa's gonna be CEO.
Like it wasn't even a question for them. I like,

(30:21):
feel it right now. Even tell you I look bad,
I'm like, I'm gonna be see you, see you Okay.
But I love it because you don't grow unless you
have an opportunity to go outside of your comfort zone
and truth like, no matter what you're doing, if you're
doing the same thing every single day and you don't
have that change or jolt, that it's boring, like it
truly is. So I was like it took me like

(30:44):
thirty seconds. I'm like, okay, like this is gonna be great.
That's so funny that you thought of it is so different.
I'm so shocked by this, Like what, you didn't do
anything different? What did you walk into an office of
the briefcase like I sit home in pajamas every day,
Like what nothing had to be different. I love having
abody responsible for the pian l like I love it,
like I love that my focus is the brand and

(31:06):
the product and the marketing and all the fun stuff
that I am truly the best at. Don't show me
cash flow and the balance sheet and the pian l
like well, like you see that. Now you see cash
flow and the balance sheet. Now, of course, it's my
job to make sure that the business is healthy like
but I but but so I hired I believe in

(31:29):
it's so important to own your weaknesses, like I know
what I'm good at, I know what I'm not good at,
and I'll be the first one to tell you when
I'm wrong. Or I think that's so important. So I
hired the best CFO I could find. He's my partner,
but obviously so. But anyway, I got it. I walked
to the subway the next morning listening to Rocky. I

(31:50):
was up all night, like you know, crafting what we're
gonna say, you know, yeah, So and so is no
longer the CEO of bake Bie Melissa. It has nothing
to do with us. Is entirely personal to him. Effective immediately,
I am going to be CEO big By Blissa, And
they all stood up and clapped for me. That was

(32:10):
like amazing. I mean, this was like the who's there? Oh?
I thought like this was a press to something. I'm like,
lam laugh, Okay, got it. That's hysterical. You're so, but
you're so. You're so casual, but you're so. You're much
more like sort of formal and corporate than I am.
I'm looking at you and it's just so funny. The

(32:31):
way you're describing yourself is so free spirited, but you're
very official, like we're running a mom and pop shop
over here. But it's just funny that this is the
point to people listening, that there's so many ways to
do this, so jump in and just figure it out
for yourself. You have a very corporate vibe going on. Well,
to be clear, I have an investor. So he made
a personal investment into the company in like two thousand

(32:53):
and twelve, and then he started a fund and made
a bigger investment while my brother was CEO, and so
when you have that type of money in your business
and it wasn't a huge investment by any means, but
he has a seat at the table and I mean,
now he's are you know, a very big shareholder bag
by Melissa and we've been working together for a long time.

(33:13):
Seth has like been by my side through this whole thing,
and quite honestly, like I don't as much as I say,
like it's all on me, I don't know everything, Like
I I looked to my team for for almost like
there are things that I know certainly in my guts.
Sometimes I can't even back it up with data, but
I don't care, like you're not going to get it,

(33:35):
like this is this is what we're doing. But that's
very more rare. So I do think it's important to
to know to have those people right and for so long. Yeah,
and Seth was up with me all night, like you know,
he was even crazier about it than I was. But
what was so interesting is that I was so out

(33:57):
of my comfort so and he believed in me from
the from that moment, like from when they were like okay,
wellis is going to be CEO? He came and stood
right next to me while I told my whole corporate
office and sent the email to all of the two people.
You know, it's a lot of people, and you have
to lead by example. And if you don't believe it,
they don't believe it. And if you don't follow the structure,
and if you don't do what's right, then why would they?

(34:19):
So when you have I have this responsibility to like
all of these people who are judging me all the time,
I like it. I like what you're saying because the
truth of the matter is, and I struggle with this
I have. I am the only I own a d
of this Skinny Girl brand. And the challenge with that
is that I'm the only one who really feels the

(34:43):
burn and the pain and the stress and the anxiety
and the threat of cancelation and all of that. It
really is on me, and I'm in you know. And
so that's a lot. That's a lot. It's an absolute lot,
because you can't really get other people are totally invested
in loyal and amazing, but you can't get somebody else
to be as invest sit in it as you when
you're really the whole thing. And that's just something for

(35:04):
people to listen to and learn. You have many people
that they have actual money they've invested, so they give
a ship as much as you, and they're betting on
you and you are the face. So that's a different
responsibility and that's just something for people to think about
whether they want to have partners or not, because that's
something that no one will ever care as much as
you if it's your business, but you have it's not

(35:25):
just your businesses, other people's business too. Skin in the game, right,
do you offer sort of pri I bet you're like,
do you have a profit sharing for the two hunch
of people or do they have upside? I bet you
they do. A lot of some a lot of them do,
like a handful of them do. And quite honestly, I
think the hardest part of my job is banned with
there's never enough time, like those are the things I need.

(35:47):
I actually mentioned it on my executive call this morning.
I'm like, we need to talk about that because we're
getting to the end of the year and it's really
all about like providing our people with the support and
making sure that they know how they performed and what
they need to be doing next year to be better,

(36:19):
so with the pandemic. I said in the beginning that
people had to not be a deer in headlights, and
that when there's big seismic shifts that there are like
gold mines and that fish will just be in a
different place, and you have to pull your ship together
and try to like watch the horizon and see where
it's going to be. Versus everyone being panicked. I knew

(36:41):
that what goes up must come down. It's just it's
just it's a snow globe. It was shaken up, and
it happened for me personally in my business where exploded
and I'm trying to keep up with it, Like it's
hard to keep up with then, And that doesn't mean
like it's embarrassment of riches. A lot of things did
really well, but mistakes happened when things explode and you're

(37:02):
not sort of preparing, you know what I mean, Like
you always prepared, but I overshot the mark. I was
trying to tell everybody else about that, but it happened
to me personally in my own business, so nobody knows.
Everybody looks at us and they're like, oh my god,
they have the best life. I want to be like that.
It's sucking hard. It's really really hard. So whatever, I
get that. So what happened? So you have a small business,
it's it's you have. You had a lot of retail locations.

(37:24):
You're probably riding high. Everything was going well, so retail
locations slowed down. Tell me what happened? Well. So, so
December five, CEO, And by the way, like we're in
it again right this second, because in November twenty nine,
like we're in our busiest three week sprint of the year,
like leading up to Christmas. And then right after Christmas

(37:44):
we're like, okay, now it's Valentine's Day, Like we're already
like in Valentine's Day because it comes right after and
that's the single highest volume week of our year leading up.
So I was able to we we had like the
most successful holiday and then Christmas in the history of
the company when I after I became CEO, which was great.

(38:05):
I needed that to happen. And then on you know COVID.
Everyone's talking about COVID. I remember I was at my
bakery for a photo shoot. That's where we shoot all
of our product. I'm sitting at a little folding table.
The March second, my brother's telling me like he's scared
a little bit, like about COVID, and I was like,
I don't have the luxury to be scared, like I
have a business to run. It wasn't really like it

(38:26):
didn't click for me yet. Then on the way home
from that photo shoot, the mayor of homeokay and closed school,
I'm in maneuber. I had all my team coming back
to my apartment. I was like, let's just be together tonight,
let's have dinner, which was so random, and my parents
were sitting in the corner of my apartment like keeping
their distance as a holy ship. This thing is real.
What whatever I canna do with my kids? And then

(38:50):
my investor was like all right, like layoff, Like what
are we gonna do? Like like we saw revenue just
go right down those like uh March twelfth, right, that
was like that, like revenues is going down, down down,
foot traffic to the stores were down. The sounds like
se year over year week over Oh my god, Like
it was just crazy. And so my I had my

(39:12):
investormating like like started thinking about layoffs, you know, blah
blah blah, And I was like, give me till Friday,
Like I needed, like everything was changing so quickly, and
my team is everything, Like I get it, Like give
me till the next paycheck, like let me just figure
this out. And so this is when you just like
fake finalist is my firstborn child. It is a part

(39:34):
of me. I had like a wave. I think I
was watching CNN and like, oh my god, like we
need to keep people safe. Like that is what I
believe in the fact that as a leader, I didn't
have a leader of this country or this like like
telling me what to do was mind blowing. I was like,
you know what, it's my responsibility as a leader. If

(39:54):
I have an impact on anybody else, then I'm during
the right thing. We closed all of our stores. That
sad all day the thirteenth, I believe it was. And
so I just had this wave over me, like we
have to close the stores. We have to keep people safe.
And I called my investor, like Seth, I was like,
we have to close the stores. It's like, all right,
close the stores. Send out an email through our scheduling
software we're closing tomorrow, like we'll figure it out. And

(40:17):
then um we we did do layoffs the following Friday
of Hourly Hourly workers, including people in our bakery because
e come was also down. Everyone was in the state
of shock. I guess I also left out that, like
even before that though, before I went to that photo shoot.

(40:38):
So it's like March one, you see people stocking at
my toilet paper canceling events. We have a B two
B business where like it's like event orders and client gifting,
and people were canceling their orders. I got, I got
my creative team in my conference room on my guys,
I don't care that you have newsletters planned and campaigns planned.
We need to change what we're telling people. We need

(40:59):
to connect with our customers. They're looking to us and
we're trying to sell them shipped for like birthday parties.
That doesn't make any sense. So we changed our messaging
right away to like you can't be there to celebrate
in person, send cupcakes, stock up on cupcakes, you know,
And I do think that worked. Actually, we like I do,
I believe so like a broken record, like our customer,

(41:21):
similar to my team. Our customer allows us to do
what we love every day. And the more we can
connect with our customer and help them through life and
give them things that make their lives easier and sweeter
than the better we're doing as a company. So we
I think we really were. We were good at connecting
with our customer like, hey, like we're in it too.
We don't know what's happening, but have some cupcakes, Like

(41:43):
send cupcakes. You can't be there in person with your
loved ones. We were getting pictures of like year old
Grandma's in the nursing home with cupcakes, like thank you
so much for bringing a smile, Like we couldn't be together,
but she was happy. And that was through you're saying,
conveying through social media and through your website. That's what's
that's where this messaging is happening and digital marketing and

(42:04):
so like we send out newsletters to our you know,
group of customers that have opted into receiving our newsletter,
which is like hundreds of thousands of people. Um like
you know, direct ads and social ads. I mean, like
we pay for ads on social media that so did
you are you were you? Are you up since the
pandemic or you broke even? Are you back to normal?

(42:26):
Like what was the net situation? So we close our
stores about a week later, become exploded, Like I was
I just knew failure wasn't an option. I was gonna
go drive the pick of the drive the FedEx truck
if I had to, like I was gonna do. I
was gonna die, like to do whatever I need to do.

(42:48):
I was like in the bakery, like you know, showing everyone.
So anyway, we like did the PP the bakery. We
we uh social distancing PPE. We get our bayre sanitized
three times a week. Then we had to like tell
everyone to get them back to work. Like we we
created one shooters like your safety is our top priority.

(43:09):
This is what we're doing to get you safe and
bring it home and show your family. And that helped
us get and all this class money though you shot
your locations. You're spending money. Yeah, this all class money. Okay,
so you're doubling down. We got the p PP loan,
which was helped up. We we did layoffs because we
looked at the we looked at cash, and we could

(43:29):
have survived like a month, like truly, like so we
were just what are we gonna do? Like so we
went all in on safety getting people to come back.
We did see the demand for e com really go up.
I mean birth our birthday skew. Our Happy Birthday gift
box is our number one selling skew. But it was up, like,
I mean, we couldn't get the gift box isn't fast enough?

(43:51):
Like so that was great and we I have remember
saying to my investor, like my investors number two basically
like we were all talking like all the time, right
like this is everybody was do or die mode. And
so one night I said, Hey, Blake, how much revenue

(44:11):
do we need to do an e coom to offset
the loss at retail. He's like, you're you're crazyna. Give
me that number. I just need that number. I'm so
goal oriented, so I'm like I can need that number.
I need the number that I'm working towards. And we
did it. Like that was it. I was like late
dead set on what we needed to do at ECB
to offset retail. And I mean then you get into

(44:34):
like the legistics of it, like if my CFOs here
is like yeah, but the margins are different for shipping
because you have all of the costs of goods. You
have the shipping box, you have the ice pack, dude,
the liners. But revenue was up. But net net as
a business, are you up down or even as a
result of the pandemic. Did it help you in any
way figure out what you really needed didn't need and
shift your entire business? Is it better not not? The

(44:57):
health assign for your business? Was it better or worse
to learn all of this? Is you have a better
business now? Better? Okay better? And but and it's I
am like the most annoyingly positive person in the world.
Like even though I made it sound like it's great
to have like five co founders that it investors, you know,

(45:19):
like like it's so important to understand and so like
to take the good. But for the business, it was great.
We're a directive We're a digital first directive consumer gifting company,
and our website is our flagship store. So everybody feels
this is a success and it's a win. What happened?
Like no one's still suffering from wounds. Everyone feels like, wow,

(45:42):
we did it and now we're on the up. That's
like it was so you learned. One is even harder.
This year is much harder for me than COVID was. Actually, Okay,
why let's hear about that because that's the back end
of COVID. So why I think of anybody who's like listening,
like how are you doing? Like like you know, like
and and so much of Big By Melissa is my team.

(46:03):
It's the people and like I'm burnt out, but I
have no you know, like it's it's it's exhausting, like
we've been in this global pet I'm having a hard time.
I feel the same way. So I don't know. We're
not really aware of exactly why I feel the exact
same way. I have deal fatigue. I want to get
off the ride. I I get it, I fully get it.

(46:23):
I don't know what's going on. I don't know why
it's going on. I don't know what's upset. I feel
the same way. So it might be the aftermath of that.
Who knows. Yes, we're making money, but it just feels
harder to do so I don't know what to do,
which way to turn. It's it's exhausting. It could be
being a mom, it could be balancing, and it could
be all we've been through with school. But I feel
the same way that you feel. So that's good for
people to hear. And I'm sure, yeah, and I'm sure

(46:46):
that like you and I kind of reacted the same
way what you were saying before like, oh my god,
my friends were freaking out about like toilet paper and white.
I'm like, get your head on straight, like your kids
are watching you, like you make light of it. Your
kids are gonna be fine, Like they're so worried about
the impact it's gonna have with their kids, Like they're fives,
they're three. It doesn't matter, Like just be happy, don't

(47:08):
show your stress. Everything's gonna be okay, Like we're yes,
you know so. But but now it's like first it's
I think everyone has burned out. So like my team
like has burned out, and I've watched we want like
since May, we had more turnover than we've ever had,
and I don't I don't take it personally. That's good

(47:29):
that you're being honest about that. You're saying morale is down.
That happens in my business too. It's ship. The ship
flows downwards. If it's the morale can be down, it
could be something going on with your personal life. It
could be something going on with anything, your brother, working
with your spouse, money, you're on whatever, hormones. Who knows.
The morale can be down, and then you have to
just like look at it and try to correct it.
But that happens to me totally. You've been stuck in

(47:51):
your house for twenty months. You're you want to be
your Yeah, so you're not traveling, you're not tan, You're
not you know, free, and not exercising. I'm that exercise.
I don't exercise, and I'm really not exercising. Your hips
hurt from sitting down all day. I was like doing
stretches before before while I was like waiting to start.
It's a ship show. So but so you know where

(48:11):
I'm spending my time right now, and this is what
being the CEO is. We're doing a cooking class my
whole team. Because you know what, people love the relationships
they build played and simple, and if you want people
to love their job, then they need to build relationships.
I'm not going to force my team to come into
the office because they did an incredible job in the past.
That's weird too. Now you have at homeworking and people

(48:33):
you don't know what it does. Nothing seems normal anymore.
Like we have to have a structure being here, but
be aware, like it's very weird, it's very strange. So
I like that you're being honest about that because it's
totally how I feel. We I tried to do. I
do virtual baging demos like for people. Sometimes I was like, okay,
let's do one for bake bite Melissa with somebody's I
get like three people came. I'm like, okay, well, if
you don't want to come to say, what are you
gonna do? And so now people even there's like a

(48:57):
few people who really don't want to come into the
office anymore. It's fine. They're all doing an incredible job.
So I just need to create opportunities to get together.
We had a couple of happy hours and once a
week we're doing something to bring people. But it's still
weird and it lacks structure. Lacks structure, and that's strange,
like no one's working as efficiently from home. No, because
you need collaboration. I agree, yeah, I agree, I know,

(49:19):
but we're all like this all day, Like with my
neck words. I I had a consultation with an acupuncturist
last week, and I think he goes we facetimes, he
goes shrubby your tugue. It's like you're just empty, you're tired.
I'm like, thank you, but I know it was it
was so validating it's so funny. I put a scar fun.

(49:40):
I tried to every day. I'm trying like now, I'm
like I'm getting up and putting clothes on in the morning,
not just like they're sweatish and I have slippers on.
But I put a scar fun. I know it sounds weird.
I was like, I want to look, I have jewelry on. Yeah.
I never used to do my hair, but like I
need to sometimes, like because I'm gonna start doing my hair.
I didn't do my hair, but I brushed my hair
all right, I took a shower. I'm usually just like
a top on. I like, but then now my hair

(50:02):
is so healthy because I don't do anything, you know,
I don't even have opportunities to like do the pr
as much. It's like all virtual exactly, all right. So
a couple of just a few more questions. So you
are mistakes, your biggest mistakes, your biggest mistakes, and your
biggest fears. I want to hear about that what you
really have screwed up on and like they were just
mistakes and you just you know, I I loves I

(50:24):
like I hate to sound like a freaking kindergarten teacher.
But like mistakes are so important. I I like say
the same things on interviews I say to my five
year old, but like if you don't make mistakes, you
don't learn, you don't grow. I think owning your mistakes
is very important. One of my strengths, said weaknesses. It's
like I'm on a job interview right now, but I
mean it is that I'm very trusting, but I own it.

(50:48):
What's the alternative? Same being one of those like like
I know negatives, like you're you thinking? I mean my
brother is more of like the opposite where it's like
he thinks every everyone's out to get him, which is
like also good and like you need that balance. But
like you only live once, and and it's the people, right,
Like if I didn't trust the people that I spent
all my time with, then yes. But but I heard

(51:11):
something on yellow Stone last night and he's one of
this like the characters on a horse. I don't know
it was. It was actually Tim McGraw. He said, try
you don't trust until they've earned it. So maybe that's
a good I'm saying because people listening want to learn
from whatever your mistakes, or even if you've grown from them.
So I too. I've been stolen from I've been scammed,

(51:32):
I've been had people try to get me canceled just
because I'm you know, a target. So you can be trusting,
but trust has to be earned. Let's just let's put it.
Let's put a button on that one at least so
it has some sort of message to people. Moral. Yeah,
my dad, my dad is also you know, he's runs
the business, and he like since we started business, like

(51:54):
don't be don't be too trusting or don't get too attached,
like they're gonna leave you. Everybody leaves you and get
know what everybody leaves except for like my vice president.
So you can't be too trusting, but you can't be negative,
and you can't be bitter. Doesn't mean you're you're bitter,
It doesn't mean you're seeing the lass is half empty.
Just be cautious, right, cautiously trusting, and you have to
be knowing that sometimes people are going to disappoint you.

(52:15):
But I'd rather have it that way, So I think
I think that's a big one. Well, for me, loyalty
and hard work is more important than loyalty and hard
work is more important to me than intelligence. It always
has been like if you're loyal and hard working, it's
the most important. If I don't trust someone, I don't.
I have people that I won't feel emotionally safe with
when I work with them, and it might be in

(52:36):
a very trusting package. They seem trusting. If I feel unsettled,
it's like you gotta go with your gut, but you
but you trust exactly. But like, okay, so my CEO,
who taught me more than any class I ever took,
should I have not trusted him because you know what,
like my gut for like I knew in my gut,
deep deep doubt that something was off. I remember, and

(52:57):
we worked again. We worked together for three years. I
remember like telling my husband, who also know about like
something is off. We've been working together a year. There's
still nothing that I like, don't like about him, Like
there something is off. But you know what, would I
change anything I did? Like a very I think we're
doing great and like look at me now, like I
wouldn't have had that opportunity. It sounds like you probably

(53:18):
didn't see something. It sounds like because it happened to me,
I'm sure that there's a couple of dollars missing from
the cash register that you don't even know about. But
you learned a lot from that person too, and he
had a lot of benefits also, but you at least
saw the signs. Most people get stolen from their brothers,
their business managers, like it happens, So you should be
rightfully paranoid. When you're running a business, you have to

(53:38):
be paranoid. And I noticed everything I don't I forget.
I miss nothing. There's a book on a shelf if
it's missing, if there's a sesame scene that's out of
a jar. I noticed that. I don't know why, and
everyone around me knows that. So if people know that
you're not just sort of some dumb dumb talent that
doesn't know what's going on, then they at least know

(53:58):
that you're away, Meaning you don't have to be so
paranoid because you just But if you feel something, it's
not something that you can risk, like you feel for
a reason. You have a mother's intuition, and I have
felt things in business and I have been correct, so
I just act upon them. But if I don't feel safe,
if I feel something's wrong, and you don't want to
deal with the change in the business, tough ship got

(54:19):
to change. It's just you could feel it. So that's
what I think about that situation. I don't know the guy,
but I know that there's definitely something that you were
feeling and it's probably correct and it's good that you
cut bait. And I think that like as far as
strengths go, and I do think this is important and
it's it's hard to do. I'm a silent killer. Like
it's very hard to like let like people like look

(54:41):
at me. I'm so I smile like sometimes you're like,
oh you're so pretty, like chick up like whatever, but
you know what, I don't really care, like let let
them think. I'm just like this pretty face. That's Suzanne Summers.
That's Kelly Rippa, the cute little pixie bluff, you know.
That's that's that. Those are Kelly RiPP Kelly rip was
so smart, she's shark, but she's an a cute little

(55:02):
package to no one takes her took her seriously. Well,
she's winning. And same thing with Suzanne Summers as a
dune blonde on Three's company. So those that's good. I'm
not a silent killer, right, Like I don't mean an
ego like I I don't have an ego like I
I and since way before like being CEO, you know,
I've had to see that the board for ever since

(55:24):
we created that board, and like I would watch things
and who knew I would find myself in this situation.
But I just like let them watch me, you know.
And it doesn't really matter what people think as long
as you know who you are. And I think what
I had the wonderful opportunity to do is like go
out of my comfort zone, improve myself for myself first,

(55:46):
and I think that's what everyone needs to focus on.
It's very easy to say, like, oh, this person wronged me,
or like if they would have done this different, like whoa, whoa, whoa,
Like we're not going to ever be able to control
other people. The only thing you could could control is
the way that you respond to the things that happen
to that are completely out of your control. And by
owning that. And I read one book that like like

(56:10):
everything clicked, Like it's called The Games People Play because
I was having some trouble in my relationships and it's
just like made me realize, like I am always going
to have like a high emotional intelligence and I can't
let anybody who doesn't have a negative impact on me.
I can don't see you coming and that they don't
see you coming, and that's okay. Not everything needs to

(56:32):
be said, not everything needs to be seen, and not
every dot needs to be connected, as long as you
know exactly the last thing I want to talk about,
because I talk about successful relationships on the show on

(56:52):
what that means? You work with your husband? So what
the hell does that mean? What is how does that work?
Because I'm asking you a different question because I'm just
talking about usually relationships, So how does that work with
gender as it relates to finances, as it relates to partnership,
as it results to masculinity, all that stuff? Like how

(57:15):
to balance all that so everyone feels valued and you
know you're the boss. We fell in love using cupcakes.
I hired him to help me with deliveries. I just
didn't have time. I was just twenty four year old
running all this stuff. I never worked a day in
retail um And then we kind of we signed a
lease for a bakery like ten tho square feed and

(57:35):
we were both going there every day, and that definitely
took navigating. I think that was actually the most challenge,
like when there wasn't clear structure and accountability, that was
a challenge, but we put real So we both work
on product development. I conceptualize everything and he basically makes it.
So he like bakes every cupcake that new flavor, and

(57:56):
he's also responsible for other things. So separate spaces physically
in a home and also in business, separate, separate quadrants.
He reports to my CFO. He will never report to me.
I don't want him to report to me. And and
and you know what, thank God, like he's happier and
more motivated than ever before because my CFO is incredible
and I love him, so I think that is a

(58:19):
big part of it. And then as it really so,
my husband is not American. He is from Israel, and
you know, culturally there are differences which are also challenges sometimes.
You know, I grew up like a very certain way,
and and so he is very hands on. He somebody
who once told me like, oh wait till you see
he's gonna have maternal instincts. I'm like, okay, he he

(58:42):
is a very hands on father. And I think I think,
like we just being married and like relationships take work,
it's it's it's hard. So like I think the biggest
thing for us is that like, hey, I'm very good
like owning my I've apologize. There's always something you can

(59:03):
apologize for when you screw up. But I think, like
I need him, Like I can't do my job as
as CEO of Baked by Melissa without a supportive husband
who plays a role in my house with my children
as the father, Like he looks forward to the knights
where I have a baking demo, and like he's with

(59:24):
the kids in our bedroom. They have like parties in
our bed and they get to watch movies and eat
snacks and like so they look forward to when mommy works,
that's amazing. Or you know, if I he picks up
the girls from school or when they were in daycare,
like he would do the pickup, so I would do
drop off and because I'm a morning person, like get
them there and work. So you have a true partner.

(59:46):
You have a true partner. What I've been through that
I will never go into detail about because I have respect.
A normal person would be like committed. I swear like
you mean businesses, haven't you been sucked over? It's just
really it's really hard, And I would I wouldn't say
fucked over. I would say it's really hard, and yes

(01:00:09):
and yes like the way. But but interestingly, and I
didn't even realize how challenging it was, maybe until after
I believed that everyone like it's like I was so
lucky to be in my role that of course it sucks,
like like people think that I have everything. Well, you're
assuming that anybody listening knows what you're talking about. I
certainly don't, so we can. I want to say one

(01:00:31):
thing to you. I'm just thinking in my mind, I'm
like literally playing charades. But the girl by Chloe, I've
read stories about her, and she was partners with people
and then they sort of took her business. And I'm
only reading one part of the story, you know what
I mean. I read Kelly Rufford's custody story and her
husband's custody, So I don't know the story, but I
know that that seems like a weird story that the

(01:00:52):
husband is custody in France. So I know that by
Chloe I used to go in there. I know that
it's got a new business name. I think they sort
of pushed her out, so I know that that happened
with Kathleen's cookies too. She had these amazing cookies, Kathleen's cookies.
She had two partners, she had to start over again
and it's takes cookies now and she rebuilt it. So
I literally just peripherally know these stories. So I know

(01:01:14):
that I spoke to Stacy Bendon and she had a
partner for like five seconds in the very beginning. Who
still it was twenty years ago. But I know that
a lot of us women have these sort of beginning
business horror stories, and that might be something to do
on here, like a panel and talk. You sit here
with buy Chloe and Kathleen, because I don't even know

(01:01:35):
what you're talking about, but something was to happen to
you like that where you started off, you trusted and
you had to hold onto your business with both hands.
It just sounds like the same type of story, Mike,
right or wrong, it's it's a it's a little it's
a story for another time. And the truth is like,
if it weren't for everything that happened, I wouldn't be
where I am today. And you know, there was definitely

(01:01:58):
things that were very unfair air and I was very
young and I didn't have the confidence I should have
absolutely had in myself two overcome it. But I stand
up for yourself. Yeah. But and I used to get
so upset and my dad would say, like the sun
will rise tomorrow, like what makes metals feel extreme heat?

(01:02:18):
You're gonna be fine, and like I am who I am?
I am? So I mean, like knock on wood, God,
I don't want anything terrible to happened tomorrow. But like
try and shake me, you know, like just try. I
got it, I got it. I had that in my
personal life. I had a situation that was excruciating for
years and years and my personal life torture almost killed me.
Nothing that can never compared to my abusive childhood or anything,

(01:02:42):
but this situation of my personal life was torture and
I survived it. And it wasn't business but torture. So
I think, well, I might have my producers call you
and maybe reach out to those two women and we
can talk about as like a special episode. It just
inspired me talk about things to watch out for as
a young woman starting a business, mistakes, like things that

(01:03:04):
you might not normally see. I think young women could
probably benefit from that, not just like a touchy feel
like female empowerment show. But like, really, whoa, I didn't
see this coming and they're probably all different stories something
like that. It took me a really long. I love that,
Like I used to go on panels and when I
was like younger and the ability. So what's it like
to be a female in the like workpace? What do
you think about the challenges that female face? And I

(01:03:25):
would be like I feel like in my head, I'm like,
I think we create the problem. I think that we're
too focused on it. That's crazy because I was wrong,
Like there is a very big gap. I don't I
don't even know how to say. But the truth is,
like women are like we are we can do anything.

(01:03:46):
Men can do it more because we could also have babies,
like they can't. Like we're so smart and like are
with the things that they know, Like they're kind of
like their egos, they're too ego. And I hate to
say that, but like many men, you know, believe that
they can do anything and then they fail because they can't,
whereas women are kind of the opposite. But I think
we need to like put ourselves out there more. Like

(01:04:07):
I didn't want to be CEO of my own company
that fare with my name. What, Like, that's crazy. Cheryl
Sandberg has a lot to say about that. She says
that I said to her, oh my god, Jeffrey Katzenberg
called me back, and she's like, you would never say
that if you were a man being you with the
success you've had. Of course, Jeffrey Catsenberg called you back.
But that's the whole conversation for another day about gender
and things that I never have thought of. Um, all right,

(01:04:28):
this was amazing. This was overshot the market in a
way that empowers women, like you know, like at the
end of the day, like like that's all, Like I'm
I'm more about like using it as a way like
I I think, like I love the sharing my story
to like empower people, to show them that they can
do anything. You know. Yeah, of course it's amazing. You're
very inspiring and it was a really amazing conversation. I

(01:04:50):
could literally talk to you for hours. So I want
to make a special episode about that conversation about like
mistakes that we make and things we don't see and
under a demating ourselves and yes, a little bit of
getting sucked over. Um, this was beyond So I'm thrilled
to meet you. I can't wait to meet you in person.
I'm thrilled to meet you too. Yeah, I mean, I'm

(01:05:11):
not gonna lie like I was very excited. So thank
you so much. Oh yeah, well I was to congratulations
on your success and loved your family and I'm so
proud of you, and I look forward to speaking to
you again. Awesome. I look forward to it too, and
thank you and congratulations to you. What an amazing conversation.

(01:05:31):
I mean, you know, you never know how big or
small someone's businesses, which isn't that relevant, I mean it's
somewhat relevant. But Baked by Melissa is are these small, delicious,
bite sized cupcakes. It's a concept, it's unique. My daughter
loves them. It's New York based, so I know about it.
But I just know it's a brand, no matter how

(01:05:52):
big or small, and it's a brand that is backed
by a woman. And I'm was just so incredibly thrilled
to talk to her. Uh just about her business and
her experience, but I got so much more out of
the conversation. What an inspiring human being. I'm just absolutely
floored by her story, her honesty, her vulnerability, her challenges

(01:06:16):
or strengths or weaknesses, and out of the conversation came
a topic that I've thought about before, but I didn't
even consciously realize I wanted to talk about, which is
women that I know of starting their own small businesses
who sort of get blindsided or seemed to be blindsided
by partnerships or mistakes they never thought that they would make,

(01:06:40):
an obstacles they never thought they'd face. So I may
want to kind of talk about that in a future podcast. Anyway,
wonderful conversation, really really good one. Thank you for listening, Rate, review,
and subscribe. Have a wonderful day.