June 16, 2022 • 57 mins
The beauty industry is a multi-billion dollar industry, and at the heart of it is Mikayla Jane— a 20-something girl from Boston who has the power to move the industry with a single TikTok video.
Mikayla and Bethenny talk about the business of influencing, how to deal with online bullies, and which drugstore products are better than the designer brands. This episode is for anyone who is done spending money on beauty products that aren’t worth it!
Plus, Bethenny on the Kim Kardashian-Marilyn Monroe dress damage drama. Bethenny weighs in on who’s responsible, and who put the "rip" in Ripley’s.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:12):
So let's talk about the Marilyn Monroe dress, the Kim
Kardashian Maryland Monroe dress. I talked about the crash diet
and the saunas and young girls googling the diet. How
are you gonna lose sixteen pounds in two weeks? I
talked about that um only on social media comments. Did
some people say you have a brand called skinny Girl,
(00:34):
which I do. I actually have moved it into being
more Bethany in apparel because of the body image of
it all, and because the brand started as a cocktail.
To be honest, it was a low calorie cocktail. So
when I'm explaining that we have all shapes and sizes
and jeans, and that I don't diet, and that I
have written books about balance and allowing the low calorie cocktail,
(00:56):
a low calorie popcorn and salad dressings that I have,
those are It's like saying diet coke. Maybe they'll change
it to from diet coke to something else, but it's
a lower calorie coke. So it was a skinny version
of a margarita, which I'm fine with. When it comes
to clothing and bathing suits and things like that, That's
where I drew the line and actually went back and
(01:17):
forth with H s N. Because the brand that is
on their TV is Skinny Girl. The customer no Skinny Girl.
So it was a conversation back and forth where I said,
I am, I'm positive it needs to be under the
Bethany brand swimwear. That's where I draw the line on
the word skinny. So I still felt that I was
qualified as the mother of a tween to talk about
(01:38):
it being irresponsible to discuss a crash diet to get
into a dress, which I found to be a superficial reason.
That's just my own person person, that's my own personal opinion.
People want to lose weight to to wear a wedding dress.
I agree, I don't know if they want to do
it in a two week crash diet. Even if you
want to do it, I don't know that you put
it out there when you're the most famous person who
(01:59):
young women look to because of body image. And I
mean the statistics on eating disorders, exercising too much, fasting
too much, being obsessive, dieting too much. You know, these
are real statistics at the age that is in her
target audience, the age that literally buys all of the
Kylie lip bombs and the shapewear and all the skincare
(02:23):
and all that stuff. That's the target audience for this
crash diet. And these are the people who are looking
at social media. These are the people that think that
it's real. I saw something today with Paris Hilton and
Tom Cruise getting ready for a movie premiere. Because of technology,
I thought it was real. Her publicist represents me. I
called jealous, and what's this Tom Cruise thing? Paul told
(02:45):
me that it was fake. She said, it's fake, but
it looks real. I thought Paris Hilton and Tom Cruise
shot a promo for his movie. Is that like, what
is real? So young girls look at these pictures and
they think that it's real. I'm not the one to
determine where the line is. I know in my household
where the line is. But I commented on the dress
(03:07):
and the weight loss and the messaging to young women.
So I found that, and I find the filtering also
to be the wrong messaging to young women. It's just
it's not great for their psyche there emotional psychological disorders.
It's just not it's not it can't be a good idea,
it cannot be a good idea. So so I do
(03:28):
have a brand called Skinny Girl and a brand called Bethany,
and uh, that's where I stand on that, Okay. But
the reason I brought this up is that Kim Kardashian
wore Marilyn Monroe's dress. Marilyn Monroe, you know, is a
legendary international icon and Ripley's, believe it or not, bought
(03:52):
this dress from four point eight million dollars and they
allowed Kim Kardashian to wear it. So I'd don't know
what that cost. If anyone paid for that, I bet
you Ripley just wants that international press. It's worth a
lot more than four and a half million dollars to
have Kim Kardashian wear the dress to the met Gala.
And um, they're a business. They bought it as a business.
(04:15):
So here's the thing. While people are upset and frustrated
that Marilyn Monroe, once at a lifetime iconic dress was
worn by Kim Kardashian, it was Ripley's possession is nine
tenths of the law, and they actually legally own it.
They own the dress. They could burn it in a
in a barn fire if they want it's their dress
(04:37):
to give to Kim Kardashian. Um, she said she was
going to take care of it. I'm sure she did.
She lost sixteen pounds to get into it, so that
means that that it didn't fit properly, so then she
wore it. And the problem that's happening now is that
the Kim Kardashian Merrilyn Roe dress is ripped in two places.
(04:57):
It's irreparable, it is missing stones. Historians are incensed. Bob Macie,
the original designer, is incensed. Um. It's just an interesting
discussion because Ripley's owns it. They let Kim Kardashian wear it,
so it's their business, it's their dress. Both. Is there
(05:23):
is enough enough? Like do you have to have everything? Meaning?
Is it about money? Meaning Ripley Ripley's. I can't believe it.
I can believe it or not. Ripley's can't resist. Ripley's
can't resist that international media press for their business that
they're going to get. That's about money. It's about money,
(05:43):
It's about the value of their businesses, about people going
to their museums. It's about business. Kim Kardashian also International
Press Global Press, who were Marilyn Monroe's iconic dress. She
worships Marilyn Member. You can worship her from afar. You
don't have to worship her by wearing the dress. But
she had to do it. She had to get the
moment for the mec gala. So that's about money. That's
(06:04):
about you know, being famous, always turning heads, always doing
something unexpected. It's about branding. It's about marketing in most cases,
in both cases for Ripley's and Kim Kardashian, it's about marketing.
So in both cases it's about money. So when is
it enough? Can we just do whatever we want whenever
(06:25):
we want? It doesn't matter because it's about marketing and
it's about money. But Kim was allowed to wear the dress.
Ripley's allowed Kim to wear the dress, so she wore
a dress. She might as well beating pizza in it
because it got wrecked. But and it's wrecked now and
it's no longer the original dress, and you can't get
the original fabric or the crystals. And that's why the
historians and Bob Mackie are upset. I don't know what
(06:47):
I actually think I don't like things to be ruined.
Like I'm crazy about items, you know I I don't.
I preserve things. I take care of my things. I
am precious about them. I like. I don't like stay
as I don't like. I literally will actually I do
know how I feel about this. I I will notice
the tiniest staying and get rid of something. So given
(07:07):
that it's Marilyn Monroe's dress, if there are real historians
and collectors and people who care, and Bob Mackie who
designed it for an icon, it's a moment in history.
It's a museum piece, so it's effectively a Picasso that's
now ripped. But Ripley's let her wear it, so she
could also burn it if she wanted to. You know
what I mean. It's not it's no longer it's it's become.
(07:28):
It was a currency. It became a currency, it became
a commodity. Address purchased for four point eight That stock
was through the roof because they probably bought it low
at a at a certain time. Maybe it's worth twenty
five million now Kim wears it, what's it's worth less
because it's not the original American icon Marilyn Monroe. It's
a new American icon, but now it's like a dress.
(07:50):
That's so. I guess the message because I never care
about the celebrity pop culture bullshit of it all. I
guess the question is like, is it When? Is it enough?
Are we're supposed to do every single thing to market
to make money? Is everybody's supposed to take every last
nickel off the floor? You know, because I could tell
you that if that was the case, I'd still be
on Housewives. If we should take every last nickel off
(08:10):
the floor, I should be back on Housewives. A year
and a half ago when I had shitty bathing suits
that looked like ship on all the models, but the
partners wanted me to just push them through and sell
them to people, and it's the customers problem. I would
have sold those a year and a half ago instead
of going back to the drawing board and pissing everybody off. Um,
(08:31):
I would filter every one of my pictures because it
would they would get a lot more likes, a lot
more likes if I filtered them all the thong up
my ass, I look perfect, I'm air brushed. I would
get better probably branding deals. If I took every branding
deal to hack every fucking product that sucks on Instagram.
It would be taking every last nickel too, Like when
is it enough? Do we have to do every single thing?
(08:53):
So I guess you know it was an iconic moment
in history Maryland singing Happy Birthday, JFK. It was museum
piece and now it's destroyed, and so was it worth it?
And you know, if I have a Picasso, I can
put catch up a mustard all over it. I could
eat a hot dog right on top of it at
a barbecue. I own it. But does that mean that
(09:16):
I should isn't Picasso dead and and like a legend
in the art world, And shouldn't I treat that with
dignity and respect and care and no matter you know what,
someone pays me to like take a shift on it.
You know I shouldn't. I shouldn't just take it? Or
should I? Because it's money and it's business and it's
a currency. I just want to know where the line
(09:36):
is in uh marketing commodities and things being a currency.
My guest today is makeup artists and beauty influencer MICHAELA
(09:59):
no Aura Non online as MICHAELA. Jane She is one
of the most popular beauty influencers in the space. She
has twelve point four million followers and eight thirty one
million likes on TikTok and in twenty she was named
the Emerging Makeup Artist of the Year at the American
Influencer Awards. She is a powerhouse, She is a young girl.
(10:21):
She is unstoppable. I wanted to have Michaela on the
podcast because I've accidentally become a beauty influencer and I've
learned that it is such a fascinated, endless world. Influencers
didn't exist a decade ago, but now they have an
important role to play in the space between companies and customers.
MICHAELA and I also talked about dealing with online bullies,
(10:43):
food noise, and I asked for her take on some
of my favorite products. It was an interesting conversation and
I can't wait for you to listen. I hope you
enjoy it. Amazing a woman who has millions and millions
of followers and I didn't even know about eight weeks ago,
who's a goddess in the beauty community, a very competitive space,
impossible to break through. She has managed to do it
(11:04):
on her own wild really excited for this. Wow, well welcome,
Thank you, thank you for having me. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you. This is really interesting on so
many levels because and please do not take this the
wrong way. Where and you could be my daughter easily, um,
(11:26):
which I didn't realize. And you've talked about your age
and how people think you're older. Um it might be
just the poise the way you carry yourself, I guess
because you always you know, made up. I don't know
why I thought you were older until you did a
video about it. But um, I didn't know who you
were until eight weeks ago. And I, just like everybody else,
(11:48):
was intrigued by you. And I didn't look at how
many followers you have. I just liked whatever you were
saying or I thought it was interesting, and I was
looking at beauty stuff as I know that you know,
and now I you know. I I'm so excited you're here,
like you're like a major person in this world, and um,
particularly in the beauty world. So I welcome you. But
this has been a whirlwind of now reading about you
(12:10):
and it only being a couple of months ago you
and the beauty world being on my radar, so I
welcome you well, thank you, And I see all of
your videos and what you are doing with beauty, and
I think it's really cool. So um, in your opinion,
really madest to a lot of people. So I like
what you do. That's interesting. I started this unintentionally, like
(12:32):
like you, but only because I am my fifty and
fifty one and I've had my makeup done ten thousand
times for gott to be thirty years, you know, a
long time, and UM, I didn't know any I still
didn't after all these years having people do my makeup.
I'm on my phone, I don't pay attention. I watch
one step, somebody else does another step. I knew less
(12:53):
than like less than if I didn't know anything. I
knew nothing. So I started because I just wanted to
learned to do my own makeup. And anything that I
had ever bought was sort of just some random thing
that the last person who I asked told me to get.
So I started weeding through this crazy world life you're in,
and I've gone back to basics, and um, I in
(13:17):
many ways no more and in many ways no less.
So UM, are you a makeup artist by trade? Or
like you always were a makeup artist, or you're just
make up you trained, or you're just an enthusiast. Um,
so it's kind of interesting. Um My my background with beauty,
so I wasn't able to afford to go to beauty school,
(13:38):
and in Massachusetts you don't have to have a license.
So I said to myself, all right, well I can't
afford this, so let me learn on my own. So
that's why I bought all kinds of textbooks and I
started doing like online classes and stuff and trying to learn. Um.
And then I got a job at Ault Beauty as
a prestige beauty consultant, I guess, and I was learning
(14:02):
a lot through that as well. So I didn't ever
get the opportunity to go to beauty school, and I
actually believe it or not think about going now that
I can afford it, even though I have an idea
of what I'm doing, I would still totally go to
beauty school and get a license or even a common
astetition or something. But um, yeah, I kind of just
(14:22):
learned on my own. You know, it's funny that you
say that, because I have never heard anyone say this,
but I find it to be so I'm a natural
food chef and I went to culinary school, UM only
for it was a year long program, but um people
go for years and years. What the reason I mentioned
this is that I think this is so much like cooking.
So people who have been on onlines for years learning
(14:44):
how to do it, or they're seeing all the ingredients,
or they've been to restaurants and they're inspired, they're cooking,
but they don't have that you know, innate technique, like
the techniques I guess you would learn in French culinary school.
And that's kind of what you're talking about in makeup.
And I also think you know, everybody wants you to
tell them exactly what to do, so I know your videos,
I'm sure people are like buying exactly what you're telling them,
(15:07):
and you're probably thinking it could be this, or it
could be five other things. I'm just showing you this
one thing, right because they're they're hanging on your word.
And I feel that with cooking, it could be cilantro,
basil parsley, you mix it with garlic and olive oil,
it could be lemon line like, there's a thousand different
ways to do it. So I feel it's very similar
to cooking, and I wonder if you cook and if
(15:27):
you agree with that, I mean I do cook and
then I love to cook. Um, but yeah, I mean
it's kind of exactly what you're saying is right, Like
when you cook, you have a recipe, right and every
single person may you do the recipe a little bit
different based on how they like it. And it's the
same thing with makeup. Every single person is going to
have a different recipe of how they like to do
(15:50):
that makeup. And and you know, I post I've posted
what feels like thousands of reviews in the last two
years on TikTok, and I always review things from my perspective.
You know, my young dry skin, like that is what
I'm reviewing it from the perspective of and I think,
you know, people forget that sometimes and then a product
will just go megaviral because I liked it and and
(16:13):
you know someone will hate it, and it just it.
It can get really really confusing because you feel like
you have to really explain. And that's why you're talking
about you have if you have patchy skin or you're older,
you feel like you have to explain because yeah, you're
having an experience and by the way I've had. Well,
you were talking about recipes. Some people don't cook with recipes,
Like I'll just walk in and use what I have.
(16:34):
And I feel like in learning this makeup stuff, I'll
see like, a, I can't believe I'm saying any of
this because I never knew this eight weeks ago. But
like a coral blush, but then I never thought about
the fact that the lipstick has to go with the blush,
just like the shoes have to go with the belt
to the top. I just I never thought about that.
I always thought that's a lipstick I have, that, that's
a blush I have that, And I never thought about
if they go together. It's like this is a whole
(16:55):
new thing that you think about every day, right, Yeah, exactly.
I always try to man like my eyeshadowed to my
shirt or my blushed to my lipstick, or I always
try to make sure I'm matching stuff. But hey, it's
really up to the person, you know, however you want
to do it. That's my philosophy. You do your makeup
however makes you happy. Yeah, and and and I think
people are scared to take chances because it can go
(17:20):
you have to have still some sort of understanding of
how things work together if you take chances. But anyway,
so I appreciate. Uh. I just love that I had
a personal issue in the pandemic that made the pandemic
a life changing experience for me in the positive way,
which is weird to say because it was a terrible
time in the world. But it sounds like without the
(17:40):
pandemic you would not have this career. Is that accurate? Yeah,
And I feel very stelfish about that, I really do. Um. Yeah,
the pandemic was tough on a lot of people, and
for me it was a miracle. I mean, I don't
even know how to explain it. Um. The pan demic
sort of forced me to reconsider what I was doing
(18:04):
with my life because I I was extremely confused. I was,
you know, twenty one senior in college when the pandemic
hit the US, and I had no idea what I
was doing in my life. I knew that I was
getting my master's degree in communication, but I didn't I
didn't look into the future very fat I didn't know
where I was going to go. I didn't know what
I was gonna do, but I did know that I
(18:25):
was extremely passionate about makeup and that I had this
itch inside of me that if I didn't pursue what
I truly loved, I would be miserable. And so I
gave up my getting my master's degree. I you know,
left my job offer post college, and I said, I
(18:46):
am going to pursue makeup and I'm gonna do whatever
it takes. And it might be had times, and but
I'm going to do it. And I didn't. But you
had the you needed the vehicle, and that the social
media gave you the vehicle at a time and when
people had time to like digest that type of material,
that type of content, right, Because you know, my college
(19:08):
sent us home and I got laid off at Alt
Beauty and I was literally stuck at home with nothing
to do other than sit and think about what am
I doing with my life? And that's what I really
really did. And um, I'm very happy with the decision
I made. I genuinely would not change it for the world.
(19:39):
How do you structure your um like business life like
your career? What do you you've been successful? I presume
you've made a decent amount of money, and that's not
the point of this, but what do you want to be.
You're so young. I mean I literally was not any
level of successful until late thirties. So what do you
want to be when you grow up? What do you
want this career to look like? What is the ran like? What?
(20:00):
What is this? And it will change and you may
not even know. I'm just curious what what you think
about what your goals are? Yeah, for sure. I mean
for me, when I began this, I genuinely had no
idea what I was doing. I can genuinely say I
was extremely confused. You know. I had seen the other
(20:21):
beauty influences that I grew up watching do this, but
I never knew how they were doing it, you know,
behind the scenes in terms of business, so I had
not do what was going on. And at first, I
you know, I'm getting thousands of emails from brands wanting
to work with me, and and creators wanted to work
with me, and I just I it was very flustering
(20:43):
for a long time for me because I grew extremely fast.
I hit him in followers in three months and then
I hit four million followers and just like seven or
eight months and that twelve So it was extremely fast. Um,
and I will say if I if I hadn't have
gotten a manager, I think I would still be extremely confused.
(21:06):
I do have a manager and she helps me with
absolutely everything, which is crucial. If you want to do this,
you have to have someone in your quanna who can
help you with these things. Yeah. Um, so that was
one of the biggest things I did for myself, was
you know, get a manager. And at first I was
really scared to get a manager because you know, I
don't want to be taking advantage of or I don't
(21:28):
want to be thrown into a world that I don't understand.
But um, thankful I have a manager who's incredible, So
that worked out. So it's that's that's business money management
plus opportunity management because some people have like I have
business managers, but they don't weed my deals out, and
then I have deal people. But you're saying, it's it's
one and the same. They're managing the money, they're helping
you with your money, plus the opportunities. Yeah. She does
(21:49):
a little bit of pretty much everything for me, which
is incredible, and she she does the full three sixty,
which is amazing. And um, I think, you know, the
biggest thing that was difficult for me was having twelve
million eyes on me, you know, like I truly am
just a girl from a small town, middle of nowhere,
and I have a passion of a make up and
(22:11):
I didn't expect to ever get to where I am
right now. I think still I'm in a little bit
of shock about it, and it's had to wrap my
head around because you know, I still live in Massachusetts. Um.
I live a very very normal life at home. You know.
I try to work at nine to five, and I
spend time with my family and my fiancee and do
(22:32):
things on the weekends. I I truly want to stay
very grounded. Um do I love myself a good purse,
for sure, I love fashion, but um, you know, I
just wanna, honestly, I I love to live a normal life.
I'm not really wanting to get too big for my bridges,
(22:54):
as I say. I I love just that I can
talk about makeup and have fun with it. And for
the future, yeah, I don't know where I'll go yet.
I'm very much a live in the present type of person. Same. Um,
I love to just live day by day. I wake
up every day and I you know, create a plan
of what I'm gonna do that day. That's that's definitely
how I like to live. Well, that's first of all,
(23:17):
so I'm very similar to you. I am a homebody
Number one. I am. I don't go to any kind
of big event unless it's like something that really means something,
and I sort of have to go for work. I don't.
I used to not put on makeup unless I was
being paid. That's changed in the last eight weeks since
I've tried to play with it, and I think it's fun.
I get what you like about it, but um, I
have a very normal, like mom life. I've never had
(23:38):
a nanny and it's really been the thing that is
the most important. So I think that's amazing that you
already want to do that. And also I never I
you could use it. Be great with your accent. You
overshot the mac effectively, you've overshot the map, so I've
overshot the mark and it sounds like you have to
The rest is gravy now, So you just have to
make the right choices and not burn out because it
(23:59):
gets be if you don't enjoy it, then it's the
world when you get burnt out, because everybody else is
driving what you're doing and you're on there. You're not driving,
you're in the backseat. It becomes you have you are
the only one who will pump the brakes and we'll
start to So that's you know what I mean. And
if you ever my we have a house in Massachusetts.
I don't know where you Yeah, So if you need
any like tax people or business people or money people,
(24:22):
are lawyers or anything like that, because you're in Massachusetts,
I'm there if you need anything. Um. So it's funny
because I'll see this in waves and I don't know
if people are copying you or if it's just coincidental.
But you know, TikTok was a different place where I
saw different things, and I saw literally in the same
couple of days you you were sad, you were uh,
(24:45):
I don't know if you were eating cookies and you
were talking about how you you you've you've struggled with
Wade and what I call body noise food noise, and
you were mooting about the pressure. And then I saw
other people posting in their lives about the pressure, and
I was thinking, I've seen people connect with an audience
in a way where it's great, and then they can
(25:05):
sort of turn on you at certain times if you
do something, if you're almost canceled or whatever, and I'm
at wonder about the relationship with the audience, and do
you how does that work for you? So you're sharing
something that's super personal and then they're talking back, and
does it feed you? Does it help you? Do you
feel like you could say things to them that you
can't say to people in your life that you know.
(25:26):
I'm just curious about that whole area because I saw
it with a couple of different people, and I was
curious about that that vibe. Yeah. Well, so when I,
you know, put my camera on my phone in front
of me and I hit record, you know, the average
person sees it as, oh, she's filming this video for
twelve million people. For me, I see it as, oh,
(25:47):
I'm about to talk to myself right now, Like I
am literally talking to myself. And I even sometimes forget
that there will be people on the other side and
you know, um, but for instance, that video I posted
with you know, I was eating the ding dong's or
the sugary food or whatever, and I was talking about
(26:08):
how I was struggling with the pressure. I feel very
comfortable posting that kind of stuff because I have sort
of grown. I guess it's considered a pair of social
relationship with my audience, UM, where they feel comfortable talking
to me. Uh, you should see my d M S
(26:30):
or I feel comfortable talking to them. And I mean,
the biggest reason I do it is because I know that.
You know, I'm extremely grateful to be where I am.
I am extremely blessed, and I I am in an
incredible position in my life. But at the same time,
(26:51):
I'm just a twenty three year old girl trying to
figure it out. Like I, I don't know what I'm
doing half the time, UM, and I struggled to and
I know that if I share my struggles that it'll
help even just one person. So like, I know that
anytime I do talk about, you know, my eating disorder
(27:11):
or anything vulnerable, UM, people listen because they get it,
they understand. And I never want my page to be
just makeup because I'm way more than that. I yes,
makeup is my whole world, but there are so many
other things that I am passionate about, and mental health
(27:31):
and eating disorders is one of those things. So yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm glad you explained it, and um, does it feel so? So?
For example, I've been on Instagram for years and Twitter
and I've never felt that connected to it. It It feels
sort of static and stuck. And I never could be
good at social media. I'm terrible at it because it
(27:52):
just was like look at me, Look how cute I look,
Look how rich I am, Look at my vacation. Like
I came up at a different age than you, when
you would never take a picture of yourself in abating
suit and show people that, Like, I just so now
to be in this world where you're supposed to show
the inside of your vagina, like you're supposed to know
nothing's too much. So I had like I just never
(28:12):
got used to it. And now TikTok seemed very different.
And you kind of want to share an idea or
something you just discovered. I'm saying, so do you, because
and I feel like it could be addictive because you
want to like share it, you want to post it,
you want to tell them, And I wonder where that
line is because for you, um, you know that's your business.
(28:34):
So do you have to control yourself? You have to
structure it, like otherwise you'll just be I mean, does
anyone around you say it's too much with the posting
or no, because I know, you know, what's what's the
line with all that? Yeah, well this is a great
question for me because I am a workaholic, right, like
really bad. I mean I've been I've been that way
in my whole life. But um, with this Korea, it
(28:55):
has definitely just like skyrocketed. Um. For instance, I I'm
going on a cruise and like a few weeks and
all I keep thinking about is Okay, I'm supposed to
be offline for this cruise, but what incredible content could
I create on this cruise? I mean, you know, I'm
(29:16):
on a tropical island. I could do some really cool content.
But like that, I can't shut that off. You know,
I just can't shut it off. Um, even you know
I'm getting married that year and I'm thinking about, oh
what can I do for TikTok to showcase my wedding?
Like I literally think like that like all the time. Um.
It is kind of said, like, you know, like we
(29:38):
can't really shut it off because it is a job
to create content that people want to watch. Um. And
you know a lot of people say views don't matter,
but they kind of do matter if you want to
do this as a job. So, um, I'm always trying
to think outside of the box, but it is really
difficult to shut it on. No, well, you're a competitive
person with yourself. But and I guess because I'm asking
(30:00):
myself because I want a vacation, and I shot some
stuff too, because it's it's it's I saw you say
something about therapy. I never stopped thinking. It doesn't matter
if I'm thinking about literally ingredients in my refrigerator, buttons
I want to change on a blazer, I lash brushes,
career book, I sweat all the small stuff. So if
I'm away in a vacation, there's no way I'm just
(30:22):
gonna like zen out the entire time. So it's other
time in a day. I guess you could be reading.
But it's fun to play. It feels like you're playing,
like just like you're sort of you know, you're you're
you're working around effectively exactly. And that's like TikTok's a
little bit different. Like I I pull out my phone,
I opened the TikTok app and I hit record. I
don't I've never edited a video. I got it right,
(30:44):
I have never edited I just hit record and boom
done and I posted. I that's what's different about TikTok
compared to like YouTube and stuff like that. You don't
need to do anything, and you can do it right
in the moment, and it's it's it's live. You know,
it's liberating, and if it's not perfect, it's perfect because
it's not perfect, exactly right. I like that. Okay, do
(31:06):
you even are the other social media channels unnecessary? I
don't want to say evil, but do you like them
or you just doing them? Because you have to have
a well rounded career. I mean, like I wanted to
do YouTube for the longest time, but I don't know
how to edit videos. I would have to learn, you know.
Like that's why I haven't even gotten into that kind
of world. Instagram I like because you know, I do makeup,
(31:29):
so I like to take photos of the makeup and
I get to look back at all of the posts
and see what makeup I've done and stuff like that. Um,
and I enjoy editing photos. I think that's a fun pasttime.
I do like Instagram. I do like Instagram, and I
really like stories because that's like in the moment and
if you have a question or you want to share something,
(31:50):
you can just post it right there. You know, got it,
and you just do whatever you want. You don't think
about when you're supposed to be doing that or whatever.
You just on Instagram. You just if you post twenty stories,
you don't care. There's no rhyme maries in her strategy
to what You're just doing it, or you have some
sort of strategy. My I guess my strategy is I
just do whatever I want. That's good, that's amazing, that's amazing.
I think maybe I overthought it because people tell me
(32:10):
you're not supposed to do this, and he supposed to.
It just doesn't It just has never clicked with me.
Who were the beauty influences you were mentioning earlier that
came up before you that you used to watch, right, So,
I love Candy Johnson, I watched a lot of Jacqueline Hill,
Patrick stat Manny Amy Way, Dasi Perkins. I'm trying to
(32:31):
think who else. Yeah, I've never heard of any of
these people until now. Yeah, like you, I meant beauty
people when I was around twelve, so this was like
years ago. You know, that's amazing. I know I used
to get my eyebrows done from Anastasia when we were
both broke and she was in a tiny little room
and so I've known her since, way before they come up.
(32:52):
That's the only beauty influencer I've ever known. But I
love her. I love her, and I met Orvina and
she's awesome as well. Yeah. Um, so you talk of breakouts,
which to me, so the only thing I've had a
problem with with wearing makeup more now and trying is
that I have very good skin knock Wood. I don't
break out, and I'm like the number one thing in
(33:13):
my mind to break out your skin is makeup, any
kind of makeup, You're still piling more ship in your skin.
And when I go to my facialist, if she does microbrasion,
derm abrasion, since seeing this, she was showing me that
little pattage because this is all makeup and I'm doing
scrubs and I'm doing math. So is it just too
bad I'm an artist, is what I'm doing? Or you
don't think of it that way, but it must contribute
(33:34):
to your breakouts in some way. Yeah, That's what I
wish I could figure out. Like, like the other thing
is I used so many new products every day that
I can't be like, oh, this is what broke me
out because I don't know, you know, because it was
so many new products. Um But for me, like if
if my skincare routine is so intense, because it has
(33:58):
to be like if I just take a makeup wipe
and and remove the makeup and then use a cleans
up that doesn't do anything, you have to really like
oil plant and sometimes I will triple cleanse. You have to.
You have to, um you really do. And yeah, so
I feel like sometimes I definitely break out due to makeup,
(34:20):
but I try to buy like the non comediogenic makeup,
which definitely helps um or. You know, there are are
beauty branch that have more clean ingredients than others and
that can help as well, you know. But meaning like
definitely not wearing makeup at all would be the best thing,
But it doesn't matter. You're an artist. This is what
you do. This is your canvas tough ship. You're wearing
(34:41):
makeup and the skin has to just deal with that. Yeah,
I mean, well, you know it's strange. I actually break
out more when I don't wear makeup because when I
have makeup on it creates a barrier on my face
that prevents other stuff from getting into it. And I
love that you're saying that because yeah, because in high
(35:03):
school I heard that like some of those foundation powders
or something would actually prevent it, and I thought that
was total bullshit. And I have to say some people,
my my skin has been looking very good lately, and
I've been wearing makeup more and I thought, maybe it's
keeping the ship out because I never wear me I
mean nothing, well nothing, I don't care if I just
(35:25):
don't care, and it's been actually pretty good. I wonder
if what you're saying is actually true. Just get it cleaned. Well, um,
that could be a great that's that's that's an interesting
philosophy that I might be subscribing to it. Yeah, I
have to say that the one thing that that I
learned from all of these years and having all these
people do my makeup, that the facialist will notice a
(35:47):
difference when I am at a hotel and they have
all those wash cloths and use it with really warm
water and like seam and use a wash cloth. It's
better than any scrub any other thing. Because that's why
my skin is the cleanest. So that's like the tried
and true. Um So, do you do you feel that
because you talk about insecurities, you talk about body and
(36:08):
face image, do you feel insecure if you're not wearing makeup?
Are you comfortable like just walking out and or is
it or it's you? Yeah, that's my question. Um So.
The the interesting thing is, um the there's a big
reason I started on TikTok that I don't talk about
(36:29):
very much. But I used to have a blog and
I posted a blog talking about how I was going
to post my first ever video of myself without makeup
and I was gonna just show the world I was
gonna And I wasn't an influence that or anything at
this time. I was just a regular person, not online.
Um but I said, you know, I'm really really, really
terribly insecure of myself, my acne, my body, and I
(36:53):
need to do something about it. Um So the first
thing I did was made my first tick talk and
it was literally, um me showing my full face of acne,
no just no makeup at all, and it was terrifying
and the and what else was terrifying is it blew up?
It was my first video I ever posted and I
absolutely blew up, and I was so confused, but I
(37:16):
felt like it was the universe trying to tell me
they were like proud of me for doing that or something.
And that changed my life. And now I feel incredibly
comfortable going out without makeup on. I actually I go
out without makeup on more often than I have makeup on,
to be honest. Ah. So and that was without any content.
(37:37):
You you didn't then have you? You did that and
then you put makeup on to show the difference? Are
you just like, Hi, this is me and I don't
feel great about myself. Well, the first thing I did
was I posted a blog article that showed a picture
of my skin. Um, and it was it was a
pretty bad picture. I can send it to you, um.
And then I said, check out the video I'm gonna
(37:59):
post on TikTok and and I posted it and it was, Yeah,
it was a video of the before and the after
to show that, you know, this is what my skin
looks like, but this is what it looks like with makeup.
And I was just kind of showing the difference. But
makeup is what made me feel good in my skin
for so so, so long, and that has changed for
me in the last two years. I don't feel like
(38:21):
I need makeup anymore to feel beautiful, which is the
way I used to feel. Now I feel like, oh
my gosh, I'm beautiful. But makeup just like takes me
to another level that is incredible. You know, like I
have a different mindset than I used to. Well, you
have a different relationship with makeup, meaning it seems like
before it was like to solve an insecurity problem. So
(38:43):
that's a weird, not great relationship. But now you feel beautiful.
Make up something fun to have fun with. It's like
a good I talk about food noise people who have
a bad relationship with food. I was good, I was bad.
I'm not gonna eat, I ate, I binged, I threw
up like versus like a relationship with food. Yes, I
love brownies. I can't have time. I'm gonna have a
half of brownie. Like it's it's called like a food
voice versus noise. So you used to have noise about
(39:04):
needing the makeup, and now you have like a voice
about it. Absolutely absolutely Now I'll makeup. It's just at
pretty much. Yeah, you have a great relationship with that.
I love. That's amazing. Um, so, what's your rose and
your thorn in this career? Oh what does that mean?
The high and the low? Like the thing that was
(39:25):
the greatest and then what's been the low so far? Okay? Uh,
the high definitely my get into work. I worked with
glam Light. It's an indie beauty brand, and I created
my own collection and I got to for a full
year put all my passion into creating it. And it
(39:46):
launched June thirteenth last year, and that was one of
the most incredible days of my life. The collection sold
out in like five minutes and it was really really
cool to see. So that was definitely my my highest
moment so and um, my lowest moment is probably it's
really difficult to be um in the eyes of foldingly
(40:10):
in people. I struggle with it a lot, actually, Um,
And I understand that, you know, I chose to do this.
It's a choice, and I love it. But at the
same time, it's it's really difficult when I see, you know,
videos about me that question my character or are false
accusations or anything of that sort, or just putting me
down or or making fun of how I look like
(40:33):
that seeing that stuff, Yeah, absolutely seeing that stuff every
day is not good for me, especially as someone who
does struggle with mental health. But it's it's a little
bit difficult to avoid. You know, I've never seen anything
bad about you. That's funny that you're saying that you
seem beloved to me. Obviously it's coming in your for
you page because it's literally for you, but you and
(40:56):
You're about you page. But what is the problem that
people have besides just giving character assassinations because that's just assholes?
Like what what are people saying? Because you know, now
you're in business, it's not just a passion, so it's
going to be different, and that's the bottom line. Success
breeds contempt. So what is the problem that people have?
Because I was going to ask that as a different question,
like what's the negativity you get? Oh? Yeah, I mean thankfully,
(41:19):
Um it's it's truly positivity. But you know, you take
that ten percent and you kind of it it stirs
in your mind. But um, it's just really you know,
more so the talks about you know, I went from
having a lot of acne to now I have really
really good skin, and there's a lot of confusion. Um,
(41:42):
if I'm using like intense filters too, oh integrity stuff. Yeah,
and I and my using filters to slim my face
and stuff like that, which I am absolutely not and
you I don't have. I'm just using my macwork right now.
My skin is fine. But you know, people go to
length too just they want to find something to be
(42:06):
negative about, even when you maybe don't deserve it. And
that's kind of what's happened to me. And also, uh,
this this has been since the beginning, but the talk
about my voice is definitely uh the one that people
like to have, so really well, you'd rather be lucky
than smat. But um, I think your voice is great
(42:28):
and it's become like part of you and iconic, you know. Um,
and it's cool to be from Massachusetts my opinion, but
it's cool to be from Massachusetts. Um, do you feel
what percentage do you think that you're lucky? And what
percentage smart? M hm um, I would say smack lucky. Okay,
(42:52):
cannot that's good. I have a similar thing with you
that I haven't made a big plan. I wanted to
mention that to you, like I I want you know,
I don't sit here like I'm dumb not knowing what
I'm doing. I have a I'm playing chess, you know,
but I'm also playing checkers because I'm aware of the pieces.
But I don't like want to be X. I never
wanted to be. Why. I just do things I love
(43:13):
then I execute them and I do them well. And
if you do what you do it well. So just
you know, as someone who's watch your younger, take that
for what what you will? Um? Can I ask you
just a few dumb, dumb product questions? Okay, I just
want to know if there's certain things like I want
to know if like you've tried every single thing and
there are certain things I'm just curious if you tried Okay,
have you doesn't? Have you tried the Neutrogena makeup remover bomb? Yes?
(43:38):
I really like it? You did, okay, because I want
to know it's like what I think is is that
like sort of accurate? You know? Have you tried the
Spotlight physicians formula that first step that's sort of like
the flawless filter step. Have you ever tried its formula? Yeah?
And it's called Spotlight And I don't love everything that
brand makes. I just if you ever aboard, I want
(44:00):
to like see to me It's amazing, and I just
want to know if, like I'm on the right page,
because it seemed I put it next to the floss
filter and all those other ones are talking about the
Loomie the that that I know, the Alicia, this one
was amazing. I just want to know if you tried that.
Have you ever tried Mlanie lip oil or by the way,
I don't work with any these people, as I'm just
a dummy, like going to the store. Have you ever
(44:20):
tried Milanie lip oil or air Mes lip oil? When
you I died laughing when you made the I think
the m as lopoil was one of the first videos
I saw, have you guys? I had just bought them
and I was literally holding them in my hand as
your as that video comes up. I love the m
as lip oils. I love them. I really like the
scent too, smell like iced tea to you, I have
(44:44):
to go back and smell. I just couldn't believe that
it like was substantial and it was lip sticky glossish,
but still was an oil. I thought that it was
because it was expensive and I knew I was going
to spend it and be like, what the funk and
I couldn't believe that was it. And then have you
ever tried the Milani lipoil? That's also fun. I literally
made a video saying I thought the Milani lipoils were
(45:05):
a dupe for the do A one, but I never
posted it. But I oh, okay, so I'm not so bad. Yeah,
I think it's amazing. I think it's even I mean,
I'm not gonna say you may have a deal with Door,
but I think it's even better. Like I thought it
was beyond. I thought it was the best of that group.
I thought it was very good. I mean even this this.
I love that they have different sense for each one.
And yes, because I'm big sense, so me too. And
(45:28):
that that was like a mangoe and it has a
fat or little thing like which I like. Yes, okay, um,
did you ever try the Neutrogena Hydrating concealer or the
Healthy Skin Foundation. Neutrigena got me through high school to
be okay, I I love nutri gena. I Um, I
(45:50):
really did use it like every day in high school. Yeah,
as the actne Clear in line, the Acting Clear and
foundation literally helped me with my act when I was
in high school. I think it's like, really, I've gone
like next to other ones and gone through the whole thing.
I thought that was fun um And then only two
more questions in that category the Soul by Color Pop
(46:13):
Cream Bronzer. Did you ever try that one? It smells
like the beach? Do you like that one? Yeah? I
made a video over two years ago and I duped
it with the chanel Ah and did it and it worked,
like It's okay. I'm so proud of myself because I like, literally,
I just I've hunted through and these are things that
(46:35):
I thought like we're worth a mention or worth an
ask to see if what you thought? Wow, um, well,
I think it's really fun. Thank you for allowing me
to invade in your space of beauty because I feel
like I'm sort of an intruder, you know, trying to
be honest by the fact I don't know anything, but
I've liked finding out what's bullshit and what's not. Oh,
I guess that was a question for you. Do you
(46:56):
think that high end brands, and this is a generalization,
are markedly better than the drug store? Because I have found, honestly,
not like that A lot of the drug store stuff
I like better than the high end brands, and I'm
thinking it's mullet more more money in R and D,
and maybe the packaging isn't as good with the exception
of eyeshadows. The drug store suck on eyeshadows. But I
(47:18):
want to know what you think about like that, the
high end versus the lower end quality and your inclination
to use with the exception of the emotional aspect of
the packaging, which does matter. Well, it's not a secret,
right that Gloriel owns some of the massive high end
(47:39):
brands and a lot of the drug store brands. It's
not a secret. And and you know, formula for makeup
is the same across the board. I mean, there's very
small differences and whether it's high end a drug store
and I personally have an understanding that with the high
end stuff you really paying for, you know, the name,
(48:02):
but also the typically it is a higher quality packaging
that that to be the case, um And also you know,
higher end is able to use some higher grade ingredients
for sure, but absolutely absolutely able to get the same
or similar results with drug store. And that's why dupes
(48:23):
are so popular and that's also why I like, I
love to support indie brands because they come out with
incredible products as well. You know, well, it's funny because
you say dupe, and dupe is a big TikTok word,
and I know I learned the word fit from you.
I didn't even know what it meant. I literally didn't
know what I meant to One of my assistants told me, like,
has my fit? I thought it was like I'm looking fit.
I didn't know its outfit. So I learned. But the
(48:45):
d I never say the word dupe because I feel
like like I'm a person who's been knocked off so
much with skinny girl, like knocked off, cheater brands, et cetera.
So I'll say like an alternative, but I always feel
like I cringe with the word do for me to
say it. Also because I'm also an intruder, like I'm
not one of these people that says fit or dupe.
I'm like, take it fucking easy. But but the reason
(49:08):
is I feel like the original person created and everyone's
copying it, So now it's a dupe that everyone's copying.
The revolution spongey thing is a copy of the Charlotte Silbury,
but now the Charlotte Tilbury with the Swirl is a
copy of the the Chanel. So is everybody just copy? What's
that about? Everybody's just like, isn't there some code? Um?
I mean there is sadly no code, But like I
(49:32):
absolutely noticed that too, Like a lot of things are
not just do they act copies? I see it, you know,
more frequently now, especially because like there is so much
makeup coming out constantly that it's just like how do
you keep up? And a lot of brands act kind
of doing the same exact thing, and it can be
(49:52):
a lot for sure. Um, And I think I do
think the word dupe gets thrown around a little bit loosely, Like,
for me, a dupe is a more affordable version of
a higher end product that has the same finish, the
same texture, and a very very similar formula versus. You know,
(50:14):
some people use the word dupe a little too loosely,
like you're saying it's a nice look what I'm saying.
You're saying what I'm saying, which is alternative. This is
a nice alternative. And it's even the way you're not
saying this is a knockoff from Chinatown of a louis
Utan bag, which is what people are doing, like yeah,
I found the exact copy. I guess right, That's what
I'm saying. Like, I feel like if I talk about
(50:36):
uh something else, I feel like I don't even I
don't know Charlotte Tiburre. You actually know Charlotte Tillbury. I
feel like if I talk about the other one, that
I'm disrespecting the person who created it, you know, Like
I I have a code with that. So I find
it interesting because it's it's everybody's. But then when I
saw the Charlotte shibvery swirlly thing that the Chanel thing
has in the bronzer, I thought, oh, everybody's just doing
what everybody else is doing it. So I find your
(50:59):
business interesting in that way too, because I'm a very
big marketing and business person. And then I just thought,
I just bought the Flower Beauty Spotlight liquid highlighter, and yeah,
and Charlotte Tibury has a highlighter called Spotlight, and they're
in the same They're in the same exact packaging and
all that stuff. So I'm gonna do a video on
it tomorrow or the next day and try to see
(51:20):
if they are exact copies, you know that, because I
think that's kind of interesting. Well, I think it's interesting
because I think if Charlotte seas Drew Barrymore at an event,
isn't she gonna be like, you stole my ship, Like
I would be. I have a hard time. And I
know they're both big and master, but like, if I
were Charlotte Tillbury and I saw Drew Barrymore, I'd be like,
you're biting off my ship. Yeah, I would, because it's
(51:42):
the same thing I would. I would fire Charlotte. But
that's you can't in that business because that's the name
of the game. But um so, the last question is
the stuff. So if it's all expiring in the time
that they say it's going to and I know that
that's grossly exaggerated because there's no a people are buying
all the ship to last for three months, six months, whatever.
(52:04):
But you've got all this stuff, how how you recycling it?
Are you a hoarder? Are you keeping it tight because
you gotta get rid of? Like what do you does
it give you an anxiety? Well, I just got so
I just got back from Nevada yesterday. I was there
one day's I came back to forty packages. So it's
it's like I get. I get about ten a day,
(52:24):
I'd say, um, and I I to be honest, I
donate or I do giveaways every once in a while,
wanting to hit like milestones and stuff. But I would
say I donate and give away about Okay, you have
to because I have to. And that's the other thing
I'm I'm I'm like an anti water like I can't.
I hate I hate having a ton of stuff. I
(52:47):
can't do it. So no, it's noisy. It's noisy. So
you pick the one you want to try, you like it,
and the ten other colors and the ten other product
give too, Yeah, gift baskets whatever. I just wanted to
know because I found that I look at the stuff
behind you and it's grown, and I get anxiety. I
have stuff anxiety. So I literally I was like, what
(53:07):
did she doing with all this stuff? Like? So, You're amazing,
and I'm so grateful for the conversation. I'm proud of you.
I'm impressed with your grace and how you've handled yourself
and doing it authentically. And you're just a great example
of doing some of your passionate about in an honest way,
which I think is beautiful. And Um, I'm in massages.
(53:29):
When I'm in Massachusetts. If you want to do anything,
we could do what any you know, whatever you want
to do or if you need any help or whatever,
I'm here. I'm there, Yeah, when you're in mass letting
me know. And also I just want to say, uh,
you know when I first saw you a page and
what you were doing. Um, you know. I'm only twenty three,
but I get comments all the time saying like, I
wish there were people who would show us on more
(53:49):
mature skin, older the skin. And I think what you
do is really cool and I hope you keep doing
it because it does help a lot of people. Ah,
that's really sweet. I am liking it. People are very
if they're like, think about it. If I had thirty
years of makeup and don't know a damn thing, what
does some woman know that has never had a makeup done?
She doesn't know anything? And I, you know, so I'm
finding that very interesting. It's but I like you've made
(54:10):
it a creative like art project. It's fun. It's just
a fun, silly thing to do for me, not for you. Amazing.
I can't wait to see the cruise content and everything else.
But I appreciate you and thank you so much for
the time. Yeah, thank you so much. Oh wait, no,
Cody put On does he like you better with or
without makeup? Because men tend to like women with that makeup.
(54:33):
Cody definitely um says he prefers it without. Okay, I thought,
So you go through all that, you're going in circles
for you do it for you love it. Fantastic, have
a wonderful day, all right, by bye. That was really
(55:01):
really interesting because I'm I don't I have assistant to
her twenty three but like I don't like in a
from a fan perspective, I don't know anybody, or follow anybody,
or no about anybody's career. Who's twenty three years old?
And she's really created a world for herself, you know,
a niche, and it's very successful. I can't imagine what
(55:23):
it would be like being successful twenty three years old.
I wasn't successful til fifteen years later than that. Like
that's real, that's crazy. So she's like a child beauty star.
It's fascinating. Uh, not a child, she's a woman, but
you know she's very young. So and she was poised
and I love the conversation and Honestly, for those of
you who don't know that I've been doing these beauty videos,
(55:44):
when I tell you that, I get stopped on the street,
on the beach and CBS and Target more for this
crazy shit than anything I've ever done in my life.
Like in my career, I've had a Paul and I said,
you think I've had a decent career, Like literally everywhere
I go, thank you are You're doing the Lord's work,
Like it's crazy. So now I've interviewed the goat and
(56:05):
actually I want to interview that other girl, the Meredith girl,
who has like a bunch of followers too, because this
is a little space a world, and um, I took
this very seriously today. I was very excited. This bitch
has some power too. She's got some serious power in
the beauty space. She moves a market. She moves a market.
She says she likes it sold out. That's what they
call in the financial industry, or at this on the
(56:26):
stock market, is moving a market, you know. So that's crazy.
That's like the Oprah effect. Oprah like Tory Burchess Tunic
and a career was born. It's that crazy. So MICHAELA
is like that about products. Um oh, so you're welcome
all the products that I have tried and mentioned getting
Michaela to say she loved them, but thank you for
(56:46):
you know, doing it to begin with. So anyway, thank
you so much for listening. Remember to rate, review and subscribe.
That was michaela amazing
So let's talk about the Marilyn Monroe dress, the Kim
Kardashian Maryland Monroe dress. I talked about the crash diet
and the saunas and young girls googling the diet. How
are you gonna lose sixteen pounds in two weeks? I
talked about that um only on social media comments. Did
some people say you have a brand called skinny Girl,
(00:34):
which I do. I actually have moved it into being
more Bethany in apparel because of the body image of
it all, and because the brand started as a cocktail.
To be honest, it was a low calorie cocktail. So
when I'm explaining that we have all shapes and sizes
and jeans, and that I don't diet, and that I
have written books about balance and allowing the low calorie cocktail,
(00:56):
a low calorie popcorn and salad dressings that I have,
those are It's like saying diet coke. Maybe they'll change
it to from diet coke to something else, but it's
a lower calorie coke. So it was a skinny version
of a margarita, which I'm fine with. When it comes
to clothing and bathing suits and things like that, That's
where I drew the line and actually went back and
(01:17):
forth with H s N. Because the brand that is
on their TV is Skinny Girl. The customer no Skinny Girl.
So it was a conversation back and forth where I said,
I am, I'm positive it needs to be under the
Bethany brand swimwear. That's where I draw the line on
the word skinny. So I still felt that I was
qualified as the mother of a tween to talk about
(01:38):
it being irresponsible to discuss a crash diet to get
into a dress, which I found to be a superficial reason.
That's just my own person person, that's my own personal opinion.
People want to lose weight to to wear a wedding dress.
I agree, I don't know if they want to do
it in a two week crash diet. Even if you
want to do it, I don't know that you put
it out there when you're the most famous person who
(01:59):
young women look to because of body image. And I
mean the statistics on eating disorders, exercising too much, fasting
too much, being obsessive, dieting too much. You know, these
are real statistics at the age that is in her
target audience, the age that literally buys all of the
Kylie lip bombs and the shapewear and all the skincare
(02:23):
and all that stuff. That's the target audience for this
crash diet. And these are the people who are looking
at social media. These are the people that think that
it's real. I saw something today with Paris Hilton and
Tom Cruise getting ready for a movie premiere. Because of technology,
I thought it was real. Her publicist represents me. I
called jealous, and what's this Tom Cruise thing? Paul told
(02:45):
me that it was fake. She said, it's fake, but
it looks real. I thought Paris Hilton and Tom Cruise
shot a promo for his movie. Is that like, what
is real? So young girls look at these pictures and
they think that it's real. I'm not the one to
determine where the line is. I know in my household
where the line is. But I commented on the dress
(03:07):
and the weight loss and the messaging to young women.
So I found that, and I find the filtering also
to be the wrong messaging to young women. It's just
it's not great for their psyche there emotional psychological disorders.
It's just not it's not it can't be a good idea,
it cannot be a good idea. So so I do
(03:28):
have a brand called Skinny Girl and a brand called Bethany,
and uh, that's where I stand on that, Okay. But
the reason I brought this up is that Kim Kardashian
wore Marilyn Monroe's dress. Marilyn Monroe, you know, is a
legendary international icon and Ripley's, believe it or not, bought
(03:52):
this dress from four point eight million dollars and they
allowed Kim Kardashian to wear it. So I'd don't know
what that cost. If anyone paid for that, I bet
you Ripley just wants that international press. It's worth a
lot more than four and a half million dollars to
have Kim Kardashian wear the dress to the met Gala.
And um, they're a business. They bought it as a business.
(04:15):
So here's the thing. While people are upset and frustrated
that Marilyn Monroe, once at a lifetime iconic dress was
worn by Kim Kardashian, it was Ripley's possession is nine
tenths of the law, and they actually legally own it.
They own the dress. They could burn it in a
in a barn fire if they want it's their dress
(04:37):
to give to Kim Kardashian. Um, she said she was
going to take care of it. I'm sure she did.
She lost sixteen pounds to get into it, so that
means that that it didn't fit properly, so then she
wore it. And the problem that's happening now is that
the Kim Kardashian Merrilyn Roe dress is ripped in two places.
(04:57):
It's irreparable, it is missing stones. Historians are incensed. Bob Macie,
the original designer, is incensed. Um. It's just an interesting
discussion because Ripley's owns it. They let Kim Kardashian wear it,
so it's their business, it's their dress. Both. Is there
(05:23):
is enough enough? Like do you have to have everything? Meaning?
Is it about money? Meaning Ripley Ripley's. I can't believe it.
I can believe it or not. Ripley's can't resist. Ripley's
can't resist that international media press for their business that
they're going to get. That's about money. It's about money,
(05:43):
It's about the value of their businesses, about people going
to their museums. It's about business. Kim Kardashian also International
Press Global Press, who were Marilyn Monroe's iconic dress. She
worships Marilyn Member. You can worship her from afar. You
don't have to worship her by wearing the dress. But
she had to do it. She had to get the
moment for the mec gala. So that's about money. That's
(06:04):
about you know, being famous, always turning heads, always doing
something unexpected. It's about branding. It's about marketing in most cases,
in both cases for Ripley's and Kim Kardashian, it's about marketing.
So in both cases it's about money. So when is
it enough? Can we just do whatever we want whenever
(06:25):
we want? It doesn't matter because it's about marketing and
it's about money. But Kim was allowed to wear the dress.
Ripley's allowed Kim to wear the dress, so she wore
a dress. She might as well beating pizza in it
because it got wrecked. But and it's wrecked now and
it's no longer the original dress, and you can't get
the original fabric or the crystals. And that's why the
historians and Bob Mackie are upset. I don't know what
(06:47):
I actually think I don't like things to be ruined.
Like I'm crazy about items, you know I I don't.
I preserve things. I take care of my things. I
am precious about them. I like. I don't like stay
as I don't like. I literally will actually I do
know how I feel about this. I I will notice
the tiniest staying and get rid of something. So given
(07:07):
that it's Marilyn Monroe's dress, if there are real historians
and collectors and people who care, and Bob Mackie who
designed it for an icon, it's a moment in history.
It's a museum piece, so it's effectively a Picasso that's
now ripped. But Ripley's let her wear it, so she
could also burn it if she wanted to. You know
what I mean. It's not it's no longer it's it's become.
(07:28):
It was a currency. It became a currency, it became
a commodity. Address purchased for four point eight That stock
was through the roof because they probably bought it low
at a at a certain time. Maybe it's worth twenty
five million now Kim wears it, what's it's worth less
because it's not the original American icon Marilyn Monroe. It's
a new American icon, but now it's like a dress.
(07:50):
That's so. I guess the message because I never care
about the celebrity pop culture bullshit of it all. I
guess the question is like, is it When? Is it enough?
Are we're supposed to do every single thing to market
to make money? Is everybody's supposed to take every last
nickel off the floor? You know, because I could tell
you that if that was the case, I'd still be
on Housewives. If we should take every last nickel off
(08:10):
the floor, I should be back on Housewives. A year
and a half ago when I had shitty bathing suits
that looked like ship on all the models, but the
partners wanted me to just push them through and sell
them to people, and it's the customers problem. I would
have sold those a year and a half ago instead
of going back to the drawing board and pissing everybody off. Um,
(08:31):
I would filter every one of my pictures because it
would they would get a lot more likes, a lot
more likes if I filtered them all the thong up
my ass, I look perfect, I'm air brushed. I would
get better probably branding deals. If I took every branding
deal to hack every fucking product that sucks on Instagram.
It would be taking every last nickel too, Like when
is it enough? Do we have to do every single thing?
(08:53):
So I guess you know it was an iconic moment
in history Maryland singing Happy Birthday, JFK. It was museum
piece and now it's destroyed, and so was it worth it?
And you know, if I have a Picasso, I can
put catch up a mustard all over it. I could
eat a hot dog right on top of it at
a barbecue. I own it. But does that mean that
(09:16):
I should isn't Picasso dead and and like a legend
in the art world, And shouldn't I treat that with
dignity and respect and care and no matter you know what,
someone pays me to like take a shift on it.
You know I shouldn't. I shouldn't just take it? Or
should I? Because it's money and it's business and it's
a currency. I just want to know where the line
(09:36):
is in uh marketing commodities and things being a currency.
My guest today is makeup artists and beauty influencer MICHAELA
(09:59):
no Aura Non online as MICHAELA. Jane She is one
of the most popular beauty influencers in the space. She
has twelve point four million followers and eight thirty one
million likes on TikTok and in twenty she was named
the Emerging Makeup Artist of the Year at the American
Influencer Awards. She is a powerhouse, She is a young girl.
(10:21):
She is unstoppable. I wanted to have Michaela on the
podcast because I've accidentally become a beauty influencer and I've
learned that it is such a fascinated, endless world. Influencers
didn't exist a decade ago, but now they have an
important role to play in the space between companies and customers.
MICHAELA and I also talked about dealing with online bullies,
(10:43):
food noise, and I asked for her take on some
of my favorite products. It was an interesting conversation and
I can't wait for you to listen. I hope you
enjoy it. Amazing a woman who has millions and millions
of followers and I didn't even know about eight weeks ago,
who's a goddess in the beauty community, a very competitive space,
impossible to break through. She has managed to do it
(11:04):
on her own wild really excited for this. Wow, well welcome,
Thank you, thank you for having me. Nice to meet you.
Nice to meet you. This is really interesting on so
many levels because and please do not take this the
wrong way. Where and you could be my daughter easily, um,
(11:26):
which I didn't realize. And you've talked about your age
and how people think you're older. Um it might be
just the poise the way you carry yourself, I guess
because you always you know, made up. I don't know
why I thought you were older until you did a
video about it. But um, I didn't know who you
were until eight weeks ago. And I, just like everybody else,
(11:48):
was intrigued by you. And I didn't look at how
many followers you have. I just liked whatever you were
saying or I thought it was interesting, and I was
looking at beauty stuff as I know that you know,
and now I you know. I I'm so excited you're here,
like you're like a major person in this world, and um,
particularly in the beauty world. So I welcome you. But
this has been a whirlwind of now reading about you
(12:10):
and it only being a couple of months ago you
and the beauty world being on my radar, so I
welcome you well, thank you, And I see all of
your videos and what you are doing with beauty, and
I think it's really cool. So um, in your opinion,
really madest to a lot of people. So I like
what you do. That's interesting. I started this unintentionally, like
(12:32):
like you, but only because I am my fifty and
fifty one and I've had my makeup done ten thousand
times for gott to be thirty years, you know, a
long time, and UM, I didn't know any I still
didn't after all these years having people do my makeup.
I'm on my phone, I don't pay attention. I watch
one step, somebody else does another step. I knew less
(12:53):
than like less than if I didn't know anything. I
knew nothing. So I started because I just wanted to
learned to do my own makeup. And anything that I
had ever bought was sort of just some random thing
that the last person who I asked told me to get.
So I started weeding through this crazy world life you're in,
and I've gone back to basics, and um, I in
(13:17):
many ways no more and in many ways no less.
So UM, are you a makeup artist by trade? Or
like you always were a makeup artist, or you're just
make up you trained, or you're just an enthusiast. Um,
so it's kind of interesting. Um My my background with beauty,
so I wasn't able to afford to go to beauty school,
(13:38):
and in Massachusetts you don't have to have a license.
So I said to myself, all right, well I can't
afford this, so let me learn on my own. So
that's why I bought all kinds of textbooks and I
started doing like online classes and stuff and trying to learn. Um.
And then I got a job at Ault Beauty as
a prestige beauty consultant, I guess, and I was learning
(14:02):
a lot through that as well. So I didn't ever
get the opportunity to go to beauty school, and I
actually believe it or not think about going now that
I can afford it, even though I have an idea
of what I'm doing, I would still totally go to
beauty school and get a license or even a common
astetition or something. But um, yeah, I kind of just
(14:22):
learned on my own. You know, it's funny that you
say that, because I have never heard anyone say this,
but I find it to be so I'm a natural
food chef and I went to culinary school, UM only
for it was a year long program, but um people
go for years and years. What the reason I mentioned
this is that I think this is so much like cooking.
So people who have been on onlines for years learning
(14:44):
how to do it, or they're seeing all the ingredients,
or they've been to restaurants and they're inspired, they're cooking,
but they don't have that you know, innate technique, like
the techniques I guess you would learn in French culinary school.
And that's kind of what you're talking about in makeup.
And I also think you know, everybody wants you to
tell them exactly what to do, so I know your videos,
I'm sure people are like buying exactly what you're telling them,
(15:07):
and you're probably thinking it could be this, or it
could be five other things. I'm just showing you this
one thing, right because they're they're hanging on your word.
And I feel that with cooking, it could be cilantro,
basil parsley, you mix it with garlic and olive oil,
it could be lemon line like, there's a thousand different
ways to do it. So I feel it's very similar
to cooking, and I wonder if you cook and if
(15:27):
you agree with that, I mean I do cook and
then I love to cook. Um, but yeah, I mean
it's kind of exactly what you're saying is right, Like
when you cook, you have a recipe, right and every
single person may you do the recipe a little bit
different based on how they like it. And it's the
same thing with makeup. Every single person is going to
have a different recipe of how they like to do
(15:50):
that makeup. And and you know, I post I've posted
what feels like thousands of reviews in the last two
years on TikTok, and I always review things from my perspective.
You know, my young dry skin, like that is what
I'm reviewing it from the perspective of and I think,
you know, people forget that sometimes and then a product
will just go megaviral because I liked it and and
(16:13):
you know someone will hate it, and it just it.
It can get really really confusing because you feel like
you have to really explain. And that's why you're talking
about you have if you have patchy skin or you're older,
you feel like you have to explain because yeah, you're
having an experience and by the way I've had. Well,
you were talking about recipes. Some people don't cook with recipes,
Like I'll just walk in and use what I have.
(16:34):
And I feel like in learning this makeup stuff, I'll
see like, a, I can't believe I'm saying any of
this because I never knew this eight weeks ago. But
like a coral blush, but then I never thought about
the fact that the lipstick has to go with the blush,
just like the shoes have to go with the belt
to the top. I just I never thought about that.
I always thought that's a lipstick I have, that, that's
a blush I have that, And I never thought about
if they go together. It's like this is a whole
(16:55):
new thing that you think about every day, right, Yeah, exactly.
I always try to man like my eyeshadowed to my
shirt or my blushed to my lipstick, or I always
try to make sure I'm matching stuff. But hey, it's
really up to the person, you know, however you want
to do it. That's my philosophy. You do your makeup
however makes you happy. Yeah, and and and I think
people are scared to take chances because it can go
(17:20):
you have to have still some sort of understanding of
how things work together if you take chances. But anyway,
so I appreciate. Uh. I just love that I had
a personal issue in the pandemic that made the pandemic
a life changing experience for me in the positive way,
which is weird to say because it was a terrible
time in the world. But it sounds like without the
(17:40):
pandemic you would not have this career. Is that accurate? Yeah,
And I feel very stelfish about that, I really do. Um. Yeah,
the pandemic was tough on a lot of people, and
for me it was a miracle. I mean, I don't
even know how to explain it. Um. The pan demic
sort of forced me to reconsider what I was doing
(18:04):
with my life because I I was extremely confused. I was,
you know, twenty one senior in college when the pandemic
hit the US, and I had no idea what I
was doing in my life. I knew that I was
getting my master's degree in communication, but I didn't I
didn't look into the future very fat I didn't know
where I was going to go. I didn't know what
I was gonna do, but I did know that I
(18:25):
was extremely passionate about makeup and that I had this
itch inside of me that if I didn't pursue what
I truly loved, I would be miserable. And so I
gave up my getting my master's degree. I you know,
left my job offer post college, and I said, I
(18:46):
am going to pursue makeup and I'm gonna do whatever
it takes. And it might be had times, and but
I'm going to do it. And I didn't. But you
had the you needed the vehicle, and that the social
media gave you the vehicle at a time and when
people had time to like digest that type of material,
that type of content, right, Because you know, my college
(19:08):
sent us home and I got laid off at Alt
Beauty and I was literally stuck at home with nothing
to do other than sit and think about what am
I doing with my life? And that's what I really
really did. And um, I'm very happy with the decision
I made. I genuinely would not change it for the world.
(19:39):
How do you structure your um like business life like
your career? What do you you've been successful? I presume
you've made a decent amount of money, and that's not
the point of this, but what do you want to be.
You're so young. I mean I literally was not any
level of successful until late thirties. So what do you
want to be when you grow up? What do you
want this career to look like? What is the ran like? What?
(20:00):
What is this? And it will change and you may
not even know. I'm just curious what what you think
about what your goals are? Yeah, for sure. I mean
for me, when I began this, I genuinely had no
idea what I was doing. I can genuinely say I
was extremely confused. You know. I had seen the other
(20:21):
beauty influences that I grew up watching do this, but
I never knew how they were doing it, you know,
behind the scenes in terms of business, so I had
not do what was going on. And at first, I
you know, I'm getting thousands of emails from brands wanting
to work with me, and and creators wanted to work
with me, and I just I it was very flustering
(20:43):
for a long time for me because I grew extremely fast.
I hit him in followers in three months and then
I hit four million followers and just like seven or
eight months and that twelve So it was extremely fast. Um,
and I will say if I if I hadn't have
gotten a manager, I think I would still be extremely confused.
(21:06):
I do have a manager and she helps me with
absolutely everything, which is crucial. If you want to do this,
you have to have someone in your quanna who can
help you with these things. Yeah. Um, so that was
one of the biggest things I did for myself, was
you know, get a manager. And at first I was
really scared to get a manager because you know, I
don't want to be taking advantage of or I don't
(21:28):
want to be thrown into a world that I don't understand.
But um, thankful I have a manager who's incredible, So
that worked out. So it's that's that's business money management
plus opportunity management because some people have like I have
business managers, but they don't weed my deals out, and
then I have deal people. But you're saying, it's it's
one and the same. They're managing the money, they're helping
you with your money, plus the opportunities. Yeah. She does
(21:49):
a little bit of pretty much everything for me, which
is incredible, and she she does the full three sixty,
which is amazing. And um, I think, you know, the
biggest thing that was difficult for me was having twelve
million eyes on me, you know, like I truly am
just a girl from a small town, middle of nowhere,
and I have a passion of a make up and
(22:11):
I didn't expect to ever get to where I am
right now. I think still I'm in a little bit
of shock about it, and it's had to wrap my
head around because you know, I still live in Massachusetts. Um.
I live a very very normal life at home. You know.
I try to work at nine to five, and I
spend time with my family and my fiancee and do
(22:32):
things on the weekends. I I truly want to stay
very grounded. Um do I love myself a good purse,
for sure, I love fashion, but um, you know, I
just wanna, honestly, I I love to live a normal life.
I'm not really wanting to get too big for my bridges,
(22:54):
as I say. I I love just that I can
talk about makeup and have fun with it. And for
the future, yeah, I don't know where I'll go yet.
I'm very much a live in the present type of person. Same. Um,
I love to just live day by day. I wake
up every day and I you know, create a plan
of what I'm gonna do that day. That's that's definitely
how I like to live. Well, that's first of all,
(23:17):
so I'm very similar to you. I am a homebody
Number one. I am. I don't go to any kind
of big event unless it's like something that really means something,
and I sort of have to go for work. I don't.
I used to not put on makeup unless I was
being paid. That's changed in the last eight weeks since
I've tried to play with it, and I think it's fun.
I get what you like about it, but um, I
have a very normal, like mom life. I've never had
(23:38):
a nanny and it's really been the thing that is
the most important. So I think that's amazing that you
already want to do that. And also I never I
you could use it. Be great with your accent. You
overshot the mac effectively, you've overshot the map, so I've
overshot the mark and it sounds like you have to
The rest is gravy now, So you just have to
make the right choices and not burn out because it
(23:59):
gets be if you don't enjoy it, then it's the
world when you get burnt out, because everybody else is
driving what you're doing and you're on there. You're not driving,
you're in the backseat. It becomes you have you are
the only one who will pump the brakes and we'll
start to So that's you know what I mean. And
if you ever my we have a house in Massachusetts.
I don't know where you Yeah, So if you need
any like tax people or business people or money people,
(24:22):
are lawyers or anything like that, because you're in Massachusetts,
I'm there if you need anything. Um. So it's funny
because I'll see this in waves and I don't know
if people are copying you or if it's just coincidental.
But you know, TikTok was a different place where I
saw different things, and I saw literally in the same
couple of days you you were sad, you were uh,
(24:45):
I don't know if you were eating cookies and you
were talking about how you you you've you've struggled with
Wade and what I call body noise food noise, and
you were mooting about the pressure. And then I saw
other people posting in their lives about the pressure, and
I was thinking, I've seen people connect with an audience
in a way where it's great, and then they can
(25:05):
sort of turn on you at certain times if you
do something, if you're almost canceled or whatever, and I'm
at wonder about the relationship with the audience, and do
you how does that work for you? So you're sharing
something that's super personal and then they're talking back, and
does it feed you? Does it help you? Do you
feel like you could say things to them that you
can't say to people in your life that you know.
(25:26):
I'm just curious about that whole area because I saw
it with a couple of different people, and I was
curious about that that vibe. Yeah. Well, so when I,
you know, put my camera on my phone in front
of me and I hit record, you know, the average
person sees it as, oh, she's filming this video for
twelve million people. For me, I see it as, oh,
(25:47):
I'm about to talk to myself right now, Like I
am literally talking to myself. And I even sometimes forget
that there will be people on the other side and
you know, um, but for instance, that video I posted
with you know, I was eating the ding dong's or
the sugary food or whatever, and I was talking about
(26:08):
how I was struggling with the pressure. I feel very
comfortable posting that kind of stuff because I have sort
of grown. I guess it's considered a pair of social
relationship with my audience, UM, where they feel comfortable talking
to me. Uh, you should see my d M S
(26:30):
or I feel comfortable talking to them. And I mean,
the biggest reason I do it is because I know that.
You know, I'm extremely grateful to be where I am.
I am extremely blessed, and I I am in an
incredible position in my life. But at the same time,
(26:51):
I'm just a twenty three year old girl trying to
figure it out. Like I, I don't know what I'm
doing half the time, UM, and I struggled to and
I know that if I share my struggles that it'll
help even just one person. So like, I know that
anytime I do talk about, you know, my eating disorder
(27:11):
or anything vulnerable, UM, people listen because they get it,
they understand. And I never want my page to be
just makeup because I'm way more than that. I yes,
makeup is my whole world, but there are so many
other things that I am passionate about, and mental health
(27:31):
and eating disorders is one of those things. So yeah,
that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that makes sense.
I'm glad you explained it, and um, does it feel so? So?
For example, I've been on Instagram for years and Twitter
and I've never felt that connected to it. It It feels
sort of static and stuck. And I never could be
good at social media. I'm terrible at it because it
(27:52):
just was like look at me, Look how cute I look,
Look how rich I am, Look at my vacation. Like
I came up at a different age than you, when
you would never take a picture of yourself in abating
suit and show people that, Like, I just so now
to be in this world where you're supposed to show
the inside of your vagina, like you're supposed to know
nothing's too much. So I had like I just never
(28:12):
got used to it. And now TikTok seemed very different.
And you kind of want to share an idea or
something you just discovered. I'm saying, so do you, because
and I feel like it could be addictive because you
want to like share it, you want to post it,
you want to tell them, And I wonder where that
line is because for you, um, you know that's your business.
(28:34):
So do you have to control yourself? You have to
structure it, like otherwise you'll just be I mean, does
anyone around you say it's too much with the posting
or no, because I know, you know, what's what's the
line with all that? Yeah, well this is a great
question for me because I am a workaholic, right, like
really bad. I mean I've been I've been that way
in my whole life. But um, with this Korea, it
(28:55):
has definitely just like skyrocketed. Um. For instance, I I'm
going on a cruise and like a few weeks and
all I keep thinking about is Okay, I'm supposed to
be offline for this cruise, but what incredible content could
I create on this cruise? I mean, you know, I'm
(29:16):
on a tropical island. I could do some really cool content.
But like that, I can't shut that off. You know,
I just can't shut it off. Um, even you know
I'm getting married that year and I'm thinking about, oh
what can I do for TikTok to showcase my wedding?
Like I literally think like that like all the time. Um.
It is kind of said, like, you know, like we
(29:38):
can't really shut it off because it is a job
to create content that people want to watch. Um. And
you know a lot of people say views don't matter,
but they kind of do matter if you want to
do this as a job. So, um, I'm always trying
to think outside of the box, but it is really
difficult to shut it on. No, well, you're a competitive
person with yourself. But and I guess because I'm asking
(30:00):
myself because I want a vacation, and I shot some
stuff too, because it's it's it's I saw you say
something about therapy. I never stopped thinking. It doesn't matter
if I'm thinking about literally ingredients in my refrigerator, buttons
I want to change on a blazer, I lash brushes,
career book, I sweat all the small stuff. So if
I'm away in a vacation, there's no way I'm just
(30:22):
gonna like zen out the entire time. So it's other
time in a day. I guess you could be reading.
But it's fun to play. It feels like you're playing,
like just like you're sort of you know, you're you're
you're working around effectively exactly. And that's like TikTok's a
little bit different. Like I I pull out my phone,
I opened the TikTok app and I hit record. I
don't I've never edited a video. I got it right,
(30:44):
I have never edited I just hit record and boom
done and I posted. I that's what's different about TikTok
compared to like YouTube and stuff like that. You don't
need to do anything, and you can do it right
in the moment, and it's it's it's live. You know,
it's liberating, and if it's not perfect, it's perfect because
it's not perfect, exactly right. I like that. Okay, do
(31:06):
you even are the other social media channels unnecessary? I
don't want to say evil, but do you like them
or you just doing them? Because you have to have
a well rounded career. I mean, like I wanted to
do YouTube for the longest time, but I don't know
how to edit videos. I would have to learn, you know.
Like that's why I haven't even gotten into that kind
of world. Instagram I like because you know, I do makeup,
(31:29):
so I like to take photos of the makeup and
I get to look back at all of the posts
and see what makeup I've done and stuff like that. Um,
and I enjoy editing photos. I think that's a fun pasttime.
I do like Instagram. I do like Instagram, and I
really like stories because that's like in the moment and
if you have a question or you want to share something,
(31:50):
you can just post it right there. You know, got it,
and you just do whatever you want. You don't think
about when you're supposed to be doing that or whatever.
You just on Instagram. You just if you post twenty stories,
you don't care. There's no rhyme maries in her strategy
to what You're just doing it, or you have some
sort of strategy. My I guess my strategy is I
just do whatever I want. That's good, that's amazing, that's amazing.
I think maybe I overthought it because people tell me
(32:10):
you're not supposed to do this, and he supposed to.
It just doesn't It just has never clicked with me.
Who were the beauty influences you were mentioning earlier that
came up before you that you used to watch, right, So,
I love Candy Johnson, I watched a lot of Jacqueline Hill,
Patrick stat Manny Amy Way, Dasi Perkins. I'm trying to
(32:31):
think who else. Yeah, I've never heard of any of
these people until now. Yeah, like you, I meant beauty
people when I was around twelve, so this was like
years ago. You know, that's amazing. I know I used
to get my eyebrows done from Anastasia when we were
both broke and she was in a tiny little room
and so I've known her since, way before they come up.
(32:52):
That's the only beauty influencer I've ever known. But I
love her. I love her, and I met Orvina and
she's awesome as well. Yeah. Um, so you talk of breakouts,
which to me, so the only thing I've had a
problem with with wearing makeup more now and trying is
that I have very good skin knock Wood. I don't
break out, and I'm like the number one thing in
(33:13):
my mind to break out your skin is makeup, any
kind of makeup, You're still piling more ship in your skin.
And when I go to my facialist, if she does microbrasion,
derm abrasion, since seeing this, she was showing me that
little pattage because this is all makeup and I'm doing
scrubs and I'm doing math. So is it just too
bad I'm an artist, is what I'm doing? Or you
don't think of it that way, but it must contribute
(33:34):
to your breakouts in some way. Yeah, That's what I
wish I could figure out. Like, like the other thing
is I used so many new products every day that
I can't be like, oh, this is what broke me
out because I don't know, you know, because it was
so many new products. Um But for me, like if
if my skincare routine is so intense, because it has
(33:58):
to be like if I just take a makeup wipe
and and remove the makeup and then use a cleans
up that doesn't do anything, you have to really like
oil plant and sometimes I will triple cleanse. You have to.
You have to, um you really do. And yeah, so
I feel like sometimes I definitely break out due to makeup,
(34:20):
but I try to buy like the non comediogenic makeup,
which definitely helps um or. You know, there are are
beauty branch that have more clean ingredients than others and
that can help as well, you know. But meaning like
definitely not wearing makeup at all would be the best thing,
But it doesn't matter. You're an artist. This is what
you do. This is your canvas tough ship. You're wearing
(34:41):
makeup and the skin has to just deal with that. Yeah,
I mean, well, you know it's strange. I actually break
out more when I don't wear makeup because when I
have makeup on it creates a barrier on my face
that prevents other stuff from getting into it. And I
love that you're saying that because yeah, because in high
(35:03):
school I heard that like some of those foundation powders
or something would actually prevent it, and I thought that
was total bullshit. And I have to say some people,
my my skin has been looking very good lately, and
I've been wearing makeup more and I thought, maybe it's
keeping the ship out because I never wear me I
mean nothing, well nothing, I don't care if I just
(35:25):
don't care, and it's been actually pretty good. I wonder
if what you're saying is actually true. Just get it cleaned. Well, um,
that could be a great that's that's that's an interesting
philosophy that I might be subscribing to it. Yeah, I
have to say that the one thing that that I
learned from all of these years and having all these
people do my makeup, that the facialist will notice a
(35:47):
difference when I am at a hotel and they have
all those wash cloths and use it with really warm
water and like seam and use a wash cloth. It's
better than any scrub any other thing. Because that's why
my skin is the cleanest. So that's like the tried
and true. Um So, do you do you feel that
because you talk about insecurities, you talk about body and
(36:08):
face image, do you feel insecure if you're not wearing makeup?
Are you comfortable like just walking out and or is
it or it's you? Yeah, that's my question. Um So.
The the interesting thing is, um the there's a big
reason I started on TikTok that I don't talk about
(36:29):
very much. But I used to have a blog and
I posted a blog talking about how I was going
to post my first ever video of myself without makeup
and I was gonna just show the world I was
gonna And I wasn't an influence that or anything at
this time. I was just a regular person, not online.
Um but I said, you know, I'm really really, really
terribly insecure of myself, my acne, my body, and I
(36:53):
need to do something about it. Um So the first
thing I did was made my first tick talk and
it was literally, um me showing my full face of acne,
no just no makeup at all, and it was terrifying
and the and what else was terrifying is it blew up?
It was my first video I ever posted and I
absolutely blew up, and I was so confused, but I
(37:16):
felt like it was the universe trying to tell me
they were like proud of me for doing that or something.
And that changed my life. And now I feel incredibly
comfortable going out without makeup on. I actually I go
out without makeup on more often than I have makeup on,
to be honest. Ah. So and that was without any content.
(37:37):
You you didn't then have you? You did that and
then you put makeup on to show the difference? Are
you just like, Hi, this is me and I don't
feel great about myself. Well, the first thing I did
was I posted a blog article that showed a picture
of my skin. Um, and it was it was a
pretty bad picture. I can send it to you, um.
And then I said, check out the video I'm gonna
(37:59):
post on TikTok and and I posted it and it was, Yeah,
it was a video of the before and the after
to show that, you know, this is what my skin
looks like, but this is what it looks like with makeup.
And I was just kind of showing the difference. But
makeup is what made me feel good in my skin
for so so, so long, and that has changed for
me in the last two years. I don't feel like
(38:21):
I need makeup anymore to feel beautiful, which is the
way I used to feel. Now I feel like, oh
my gosh, I'm beautiful. But makeup just like takes me
to another level that is incredible. You know, like I
have a different mindset than I used to. Well, you
have a different relationship with makeup, meaning it seems like
before it was like to solve an insecurity problem. So
(38:43):
that's a weird, not great relationship. But now you feel beautiful.
Make up something fun to have fun with. It's like
a good I talk about food noise people who have
a bad relationship with food. I was good, I was bad.
I'm not gonna eat, I ate, I binged, I threw
up like versus like a relationship with food. Yes, I
love brownies. I can't have time. I'm gonna have a
half of brownie. Like it's it's called like a food
voice versus noise. So you used to have noise about
(39:04):
needing the makeup, and now you have like a voice
about it. Absolutely absolutely Now I'll makeup. It's just at
pretty much. Yeah, you have a great relationship with that.
I love. That's amazing. Um, so, what's your rose and
your thorn in this career? Oh what does that mean?
The high and the low? Like the thing that was
(39:25):
the greatest and then what's been the low so far? Okay? Uh,
the high definitely my get into work. I worked with
glam Light. It's an indie beauty brand, and I created
my own collection and I got to for a full
year put all my passion into creating it. And it
(39:46):
launched June thirteenth last year, and that was one of
the most incredible days of my life. The collection sold
out in like five minutes and it was really really
cool to see. So that was definitely my my highest
moment so and um, my lowest moment is probably it's
really difficult to be um in the eyes of foldingly
(40:10):
in people. I struggle with it a lot, actually, Um,
And I understand that, you know, I chose to do this.
It's a choice, and I love it. But at the
same time, it's it's really difficult when I see, you know,
videos about me that question my character or are false
accusations or anything of that sort, or just putting me
down or or making fun of how I look like
(40:33):
that seeing that stuff, Yeah, absolutely seeing that stuff every
day is not good for me, especially as someone who
does struggle with mental health. But it's it's a little
bit difficult to avoid. You know, I've never seen anything
bad about you. That's funny that you're saying that you
seem beloved to me. Obviously it's coming in your for
you page because it's literally for you, but you and
(40:56):
You're about you page. But what is the problem that
people have besides just giving character assassinations because that's just assholes?
Like what what are people saying? Because you know, now
you're in business, it's not just a passion, so it's
going to be different, and that's the bottom line. Success
breeds contempt. So what is the problem that people have?
Because I was going to ask that as a different question,
like what's the negativity you get? Oh? Yeah, I mean thankfully,
(41:19):
Um it's it's truly positivity. But you know, you take
that ten percent and you kind of it it stirs
in your mind. But um, it's just really you know,
more so the talks about you know, I went from
having a lot of acne to now I have really
really good skin, and there's a lot of confusion. Um,
(41:42):
if I'm using like intense filters too, oh integrity stuff. Yeah,
and I and my using filters to slim my face
and stuff like that, which I am absolutely not and
you I don't have. I'm just using my macwork right now.
My skin is fine. But you know, people go to
length too just they want to find something to be
(42:06):
negative about, even when you maybe don't deserve it. And
that's kind of what's happened to me. And also, uh,
this this has been since the beginning, but the talk
about my voice is definitely uh the one that people
like to have, so really well, you'd rather be lucky
than smat. But um, I think your voice is great
(42:28):
and it's become like part of you and iconic, you know. Um,
and it's cool to be from Massachusetts my opinion, but
it's cool to be from Massachusetts. Um, do you feel
what percentage do you think that you're lucky? And what
percentage smart? M hm um, I would say smack lucky. Okay,
(42:52):
cannot that's good. I have a similar thing with you
that I haven't made a big plan. I wanted to
mention that to you, like I I want you know,
I don't sit here like I'm dumb not knowing what
I'm doing. I have a I'm playing chess, you know,
but I'm also playing checkers because I'm aware of the pieces.
But I don't like want to be X. I never
wanted to be. Why. I just do things I love
(43:13):
then I execute them and I do them well. And
if you do what you do it well. So just
you know, as someone who's watch your younger, take that
for what what you will? Um? Can I ask you
just a few dumb, dumb product questions? Okay, I just
want to know if there's certain things like I want
to know if like you've tried every single thing and
there are certain things I'm just curious if you tried Okay,
have you doesn't? Have you tried the Neutrogena makeup remover bomb? Yes?
(43:38):
I really like it? You did, okay, because I want
to know it's like what I think is is that
like sort of accurate? You know? Have you tried the
Spotlight physicians formula that first step that's sort of like
the flawless filter step. Have you ever tried its formula? Yeah?
And it's called Spotlight And I don't love everything that
brand makes. I just if you ever aboard, I want
(44:00):
to like see to me It's amazing, and I just
want to know if, like I'm on the right page,
because it seemed I put it next to the floss
filter and all those other ones are talking about the
Loomie the that that I know, the Alicia, this one
was amazing. I just want to know if you tried that.
Have you ever tried Mlanie lip oil or by the way,
I don't work with any these people, as I'm just
a dummy, like going to the store. Have you ever
(44:20):
tried Milanie lip oil or air Mes lip oil? When
you I died laughing when you made the I think
the m as lopoil was one of the first videos
I saw, have you guys? I had just bought them
and I was literally holding them in my hand as
your as that video comes up. I love the m
as lip oils. I love them. I really like the
scent too, smell like iced tea to you, I have
(44:44):
to go back and smell. I just couldn't believe that
it like was substantial and it was lip sticky glossish,
but still was an oil. I thought that it was
because it was expensive and I knew I was going
to spend it and be like, what the funk and
I couldn't believe that was it. And then have you
ever tried the Milani lipoil? That's also fun. I literally
made a video saying I thought the Milani lipoils were
(45:05):
a dupe for the do A one, but I never
posted it. But I oh, okay, so I'm not so bad. Yeah,
I think it's amazing. I think it's even I mean,
I'm not gonna say you may have a deal with Door,
but I think it's even better. Like I thought it
was beyond. I thought it was the best of that group.
I thought it was very good. I mean even this this.
I love that they have different sense for each one.
And yes, because I'm big sense, so me too. And
(45:28):
that that was like a mangoe and it has a
fat or little thing like which I like. Yes, okay, um,
did you ever try the Neutrogena Hydrating concealer or the
Healthy Skin Foundation. Neutrigena got me through high school to
be okay, I I love nutri gena. I Um, I
(45:50):
really did use it like every day in high school. Yeah,
as the actne Clear in line, the Acting Clear and
foundation literally helped me with my act when I was
in high school. I think it's like, really, I've gone
like next to other ones and gone through the whole thing.
I thought that was fun um And then only two
more questions in that category the Soul by Color Pop
(46:13):
Cream Bronzer. Did you ever try that one? It smells
like the beach? Do you like that one? Yeah? I
made a video over two years ago and I duped
it with the chanel Ah and did it and it worked,
like It's okay. I'm so proud of myself because I like, literally,
I just I've hunted through and these are things that
(46:35):
I thought like we're worth a mention or worth an
ask to see if what you thought? Wow, um, well,
I think it's really fun. Thank you for allowing me
to invade in your space of beauty because I feel
like I'm sort of an intruder, you know, trying to
be honest by the fact I don't know anything, but
I've liked finding out what's bullshit and what's not. Oh,
I guess that was a question for you. Do you
(46:56):
think that high end brands, and this is a generalization,
are markedly better than the drug store? Because I have found, honestly,
not like that A lot of the drug store stuff
I like better than the high end brands, and I'm
thinking it's mullet more more money in R and D,
and maybe the packaging isn't as good with the exception
of eyeshadows. The drug store suck on eyeshadows. But I
(47:18):
want to know what you think about like that, the
high end versus the lower end quality and your inclination
to use with the exception of the emotional aspect of
the packaging, which does matter. Well, it's not a secret,
right that Gloriel owns some of the massive high end
(47:39):
brands and a lot of the drug store brands. It's
not a secret. And and you know, formula for makeup
is the same across the board. I mean, there's very
small differences and whether it's high end a drug store
and I personally have an understanding that with the high
end stuff you really paying for, you know, the name,
(48:02):
but also the typically it is a higher quality packaging
that that to be the case, um And also you know,
higher end is able to use some higher grade ingredients
for sure, but absolutely absolutely able to get the same
or similar results with drug store. And that's why dupes
(48:23):
are so popular and that's also why I like, I
love to support indie brands because they come out with
incredible products as well. You know, well, it's funny because
you say dupe, and dupe is a big TikTok word,
and I know I learned the word fit from you.
I didn't even know what it meant. I literally didn't
know what I meant to One of my assistants told me, like,
has my fit? I thought it was like I'm looking fit.
I didn't know its outfit. So I learned. But the
(48:45):
d I never say the word dupe because I feel
like like I'm a person who's been knocked off so
much with skinny girl, like knocked off, cheater brands, et cetera.
So I'll say like an alternative, but I always feel
like I cringe with the word do for me to
say it. Also because I'm also an intruder, like I'm
not one of these people that says fit or dupe.
I'm like, take it fucking easy. But but the reason
(49:08):
is I feel like the original person created and everyone's
copying it, So now it's a dupe that everyone's copying.
The revolution spongey thing is a copy of the Charlotte Silbury,
but now the Charlotte Tilbury with the Swirl is a
copy of the the Chanel. So is everybody just copy? What's
that about? Everybody's just like, isn't there some code? Um?
I mean there is sadly no code, But like I
(49:32):
absolutely noticed that too, Like a lot of things are
not just do they act copies? I see it, you know,
more frequently now, especially because like there is so much
makeup coming out constantly that it's just like how do
you keep up? And a lot of brands act kind
of doing the same exact thing, and it can be
(49:52):
a lot for sure. Um, And I think I do
think the word dupe gets thrown around a little bit loosely, Like,
for me, a dupe is a more affordable version of
a higher end product that has the same finish, the
same texture, and a very very similar formula versus. You know,
(50:14):
some people use the word dupe a little too loosely,
like you're saying it's a nice look what I'm saying.
You're saying what I'm saying, which is alternative. This is
a nice alternative. And it's even the way you're not
saying this is a knockoff from Chinatown of a louis
Utan bag, which is what people are doing, like yeah,
I found the exact copy. I guess right, That's what
I'm saying. Like, I feel like if I talk about
(50:36):
uh something else, I feel like I don't even I
don't know Charlotte Tiburre. You actually know Charlotte Tillbury. I
feel like if I talk about the other one, that
I'm disrespecting the person who created it, you know, Like
I I have a code with that. So I find
it interesting because it's it's everybody's. But then when I
saw the Charlotte shibvery swirlly thing that the Chanel thing
has in the bronzer, I thought, oh, everybody's just doing
what everybody else is doing it. So I find your
(50:59):
business interesting in that way too, because I'm a very
big marketing and business person. And then I just thought,
I just bought the Flower Beauty Spotlight liquid highlighter, and yeah,
and Charlotte Tibury has a highlighter called Spotlight, and they're
in the same They're in the same exact packaging and
all that stuff. So I'm gonna do a video on
it tomorrow or the next day and try to see
(51:20):
if they are exact copies, you know that, because I
think that's kind of interesting. Well, I think it's interesting
because I think if Charlotte seas Drew Barrymore at an event,
isn't she gonna be like, you stole my ship, Like
I would be. I have a hard time. And I
know they're both big and master, but like, if I
were Charlotte Tillbury and I saw Drew Barrymore, I'd be like,
you're biting off my ship. Yeah, I would, because it's
(51:42):
the same thing I would. I would fire Charlotte. But
that's you can't in that business because that's the name
of the game. But um so, the last question is
the stuff. So if it's all expiring in the time
that they say it's going to and I know that
that's grossly exaggerated because there's no a people are buying
all the ship to last for three months, six months, whatever.
(52:04):
But you've got all this stuff, how how you recycling it?
Are you a hoarder? Are you keeping it tight because
you gotta get rid of? Like what do you does
it give you an anxiety? Well, I just got so
I just got back from Nevada yesterday. I was there
one day's I came back to forty packages. So it's
it's like I get. I get about ten a day,
(52:24):
I'd say, um, and I I to be honest, I
donate or I do giveaways every once in a while,
wanting to hit like milestones and stuff. But I would
say I donate and give away about Okay, you have
to because I have to. And that's the other thing
I'm I'm I'm like an anti water like I can't.
I hate I hate having a ton of stuff. I
(52:47):
can't do it. So no, it's noisy. It's noisy. So
you pick the one you want to try, you like it,
and the ten other colors and the ten other product
give too, Yeah, gift baskets whatever. I just wanted to
know because I found that I look at the stuff
behind you and it's grown, and I get anxiety. I
have stuff anxiety. So I literally I was like, what
(53:07):
did she doing with all this stuff? Like? So, You're amazing,
and I'm so grateful for the conversation. I'm proud of you.
I'm impressed with your grace and how you've handled yourself
and doing it authentically. And you're just a great example
of doing some of your passionate about in an honest way,
which I think is beautiful. And Um, I'm in massages.
(53:29):
When I'm in Massachusetts. If you want to do anything,
we could do what any you know, whatever you want
to do or if you need any help or whatever,
I'm here. I'm there, Yeah, when you're in mass letting
me know. And also I just want to say, uh,
you know when I first saw you a page and
what you were doing. Um, you know. I'm only twenty three,
but I get comments all the time saying like, I
wish there were people who would show us on more
(53:49):
mature skin, older the skin. And I think what you
do is really cool and I hope you keep doing
it because it does help a lot of people. Ah,
that's really sweet. I am liking it. People are very
if they're like, think about it. If I had thirty
years of makeup and don't know a damn thing, what
does some woman know that has never had a makeup done?
She doesn't know anything? And I, you know, so I'm
finding that very interesting. It's but I like you've made
(54:10):
it a creative like art project. It's fun. It's just
a fun, silly thing to do for me, not for you. Amazing.
I can't wait to see the cruise content and everything else.
But I appreciate you and thank you so much for
the time. Yeah, thank you so much. Oh wait, no,
Cody put On does he like you better with or
without makeup? Because men tend to like women with that makeup.
(54:33):
Cody definitely um says he prefers it without. Okay, I thought,
So you go through all that, you're going in circles
for you do it for you love it. Fantastic, have
a wonderful day, all right, by bye. That was really
(55:01):
really interesting because I'm I don't I have assistant to
her twenty three but like I don't like in a
from a fan perspective, I don't know anybody, or follow anybody,
or no about anybody's career. Who's twenty three years old?
And she's really created a world for herself, you know,
a niche, and it's very successful. I can't imagine what
(55:23):
it would be like being successful twenty three years old.
I wasn't successful til fifteen years later than that. Like
that's real, that's crazy. So she's like a child beauty star.
It's fascinating. Uh, not a child, she's a woman, but
you know she's very young. So and she was poised
and I love the conversation and Honestly, for those of
you who don't know that I've been doing these beauty videos,
(55:44):
when I tell you that, I get stopped on the street,
on the beach and CBS and Target more for this
crazy shit than anything I've ever done in my life.
Like in my career, I've had a Paul and I said,
you think I've had a decent career, Like literally everywhere
I go, thank you are You're doing the Lord's work,
Like it's crazy. So now I've interviewed the goat and
(56:05):
actually I want to interview that other girl, the Meredith girl,
who has like a bunch of followers too, because this
is a little space a world, and um, I took
this very seriously today. I was very excited. This bitch
has some power too. She's got some serious power in
the beauty space. She moves a market. She moves a market.
She says she likes it sold out. That's what they
call in the financial industry, or at this on the
(56:26):
stock market, is moving a market, you know. So that's crazy.
That's like the Oprah effect. Oprah like Tory Burchess Tunic
and a career was born. It's that crazy. So MICHAELA
is like that about products. Um oh, so you're welcome
all the products that I have tried and mentioned getting
Michaela to say she loved them, but thank you for
(56:46):
you know, doing it to begin with. So anyway, thank
you so much for listening. Remember to rate, review and subscribe.
That was michaela amazing
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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