August 17, 2023 • 28 mins
A woman’s voice is very powerful. Now Rachel is using hers to tell her own story…for the first time…
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Before we get into the reunion, I would like to
hear about Sina and you and then the dog.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yes, the dog.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
There's still a lot to unpack here.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
So Shina did physically assault me that night, and I
have a permanent scar on my eyebrow, and at the moment,
I thought I deserved it. That's why I just stood
there and let it happen. She pushed me as hard
(00:45):
as she could against a brick wall. The back of
my head hit the wall pretty hard, and then she
socked me in the eye and I was in shock.
She threw my phone in the street and then called
Arianna from her phone and I immediately ran to my
phone and it was a brand new iPhone, so it's like, oh, no,
(01:07):
it is it cracked, but it was fine. I called
Tom immediately and I was like, Shina just punched me
in the face, and he was like, oh, I know.
I heard her say to Ariana, I just punched that
bitch in her face and threw her phone in the street.
So it's just nuts that she's doubled down on this
(01:27):
narrative that I'm a liar and a cheat and that
I completely fabricated this assault for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I don't think that filing a restraining.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Order was out of question because she was making this
like punch emoji on a post that she made with Arianna,
saying like, I've always got your back, and it just
I didn't feel safe. So it's just unfortunate that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I've been. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It just doesn't make sense to me how I can
be assaulted and then still has.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So much vitriol and I think.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And still be the villain. Yeah, yeah, did you sign
up for this? Like? Did you sign up for all
of this? That's what people will say. She signed Everyone
knows what they're getting into. They've seen the show. She
signed up for this.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know what, Bethany, I really thought that reality TV
was going to be fun.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I thought it would be a great experience for me
to step out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So what I didn't ask you is how did you
feel knowing someone that you thought you were in love
with recorded you and then it ends up on a
TV show? I mean, within a cast of a TV show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I felt very betrayed. I felt like I couldn't trust
this person. I felt like my privacy didn't matter to him,
and he didn't really.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Give a good excuse.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Besides, he wanted me to see it later on to
see how beautiful I was. But if he would have
asked for permission, I would have said no. When Tom
and I were filming at my apartment, after filming got
picked back up, I said to Tom, how can I
(03:44):
trust you? You filmed me without my consent? And he
admitted to it. But then after that scene wrapped, he said,
why did you say that? Why did you say that
on camera? You made me look bad? And I was like, well,
because that's what happened, and like you know, and he
(04:05):
ended up boycotting filming the rest of scandabal so that
he could have editing rights to that scene to take
out that species.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
He said, I'm not filming that you take that out. Yes,
I've seen that happen before. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that happen. Yet, Wow,
has he gotten the same level of hate that you
have for the affair?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I think he's getting a lot of hate right now
just being pompous and like being around town with a
bunch of different girls.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But I feel like it's true.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The woman does the woman does get the short end
of the stick.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That makes sense, does so Tom owns the bar with
he owned shorts and Tom Tom and then Schwartz and Sandy.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So the Beth Andy clause is something that was a
result of my Skinny Girl deal. And it says that
businesses that are showcased on reality shows that the cast
members have to kick up to the network a percentage.
So I assume that Bravo profits off of these bars
and Lisa vander Pump's bars. So Tom is a is
(05:29):
a partner in these bars.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes he is.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So he profits off of the marketing that the show provides,
and then Bravo profits off of the sales and everybody
was going into these bars. Is he a producer?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
He's not technically a producer. He's been on the series
from day one, season one. H there. I don't know
if I'm even a to disclose this information, but he did.
He did tell me during negotiations for season eleven that
(06:08):
he was offered a producer credit.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
For season eleven.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh okay, so I think he was being rewarded for.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The scandalal of it all. Wow, And.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
To me, that's just kind of gross because it seems
it makes me skeptical, like was this really just something
that was fabricated for this end result.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know, it sounds like everyone. It sounds like Lisa
vander Pump is profiting, Bravo's profiting, Andy Cohen's definitely profiting,
Tom is profiting, Arianna is profiting. So and you're in
a death, you're in debt? Interesting and.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Is Lisa vander.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Pump in a position to protect you? Guys within this
place you're working, Like, are you supposed to feel like
someone's there to protect you, that there's someone to go to,
a supervisor, a manager, a boss.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
There really isn't anybody that's a safe place to go to.
I don't think that anybody on that show has my
best interest at heart, So it's hard for me to
be so trusting like I once was.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And people have spent like Kristen has a spin off.
She was fired years ago and now she's back and
she has a spinoff coming right, Yes, So you kind
of get sucked in and you'll do whatever it is
because you want to get a spinoff and you want
your bar to succeed. So it sounds logical that people
would play the game because take a few punches, you're
making money.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
You're selling your soul essentially, and this past season really
did feel like the first season where I was like,
oh my god, I am selling my soul. And it's
interesting that you mentioned Kristen because Kristin was just starting
about Kristin was just starting to talk about her tumultuous
(08:28):
relationship with James and what happened behind closed doors, and
then all of a sudden she's presented with the spinoff,
which I believe is a way to silence her, to
keep that under wraps so that the longevity of vander
Pump Rules can continue.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The realm, protect the realm.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So there is there is an alleged physical abuse. There's
a physical abuse allegation with Kristen and James, Yes, and
people say something was cut out of and I've gotten
people that have called me about other incidents related to that.
(09:12):
And you think that a spinoff is good hush money
for someone who was fired for like a racist an
alleged racist act.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, I think she was in relation with Stassy and
they both got fired at the same time. But I
do believe what she has said about James. I know
James is I've seen him be a violent person, so
I have no doubt that what she's saying is true.
(09:43):
I hope that one day it will come to light
and there will be justice.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
It's it's so crazy. Sometimes reality TV is like the
upside down. People are rewarded for bad behavior and you know, negativity,
like I've said, bankruptcy. In no other world, you know,
does does the does the boss the entity? Like pull
in and highlight addiction, drinking affairs, bankruptcy, going to jail
(10:15):
like that's you know, in other workplaces, that's frowned upon.
So reality TV is the upside down, you know, and
it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I like I said,
I haven't watched the show, so I don't know about
Kristin and I don't know about the firing. But then
to the pendulum to swing and get a spinoff from
fired to spinoff is a big it's an interesting swing.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
It is interesting because the cast members that were fired
and canceled at that time now have this big comeback
because this scandal is so salacious that we are the
ultimate villains, Tom and I and now they have a
platform to redeem themselves.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Wow. Okay, all right, so we're going to get into
the reunion. So because that's the last time really anyone
saw you Yeah, I want to read something to you
that you experienced, but I don't know if when you
hear it, just read to you. And for the audience too,
the audience that tuned in. The ratings were astronomical. It's
(11:17):
the biggest event that Bravos had in a really long time.
It's a cash cow millions, tens of millions of dollars advertisers.
It was a ratings juggernaut. The ratings were I think
I read somewhere total viewers were in like eleven million
or something. I mean, how much greater were the ratings
(11:38):
during Scandal than a normal season? And was the show failing?
I've heard rumors that the show is failing. It was
on autopilot and kind of on the way down, and
scandalval revived it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Alex Baskin went on record himself, he's our executive producer
of Nder Pump Roles, and he said the show was
going to be canceled the season ten and if it
wasn't for scand of all, there wouldn't be another season.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
What were the ratings before and what were the ratings after?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I don't know the numbers, but I would be very
curious to know because well.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It says vander pump Rule's viewers did not dip out
of season ten finale. It hid highs for the Bravo show.
The episode which showed the fault drew a combined audience
of four point one million viewers on Bravo on Demand
and the Peacock within three days of that viewership, Oh wow,
two point four million in the demo to give everyone
(12:47):
a frame of reference at the peak of successful housewives
that I've been on, and of course Beverly Hills does
really well. But like Atlanta back in the old days,
the hey Day would get four million, like back in
the Hay I don't but they never got two point
four million in the demo. That's the sweet spot for Bravo.
That's the advertisers. Like, the most I've ever seen for
(13:09):
Housewives is with a one in front of it, maybe
a million. That's astronomical that demo. Wow, yeah, the target, Yeah,
the ratings are. I would be willing to bet that
the demo was probably a couple hundred thousand when it
was failing, and then it went up to two point
four million. It probably shot up. Oh wow. Season ten
(13:32):
reached over eleven and a half million. Total viewers. That is,
that's bigger.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Than network numbers.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
That's outrageous. More than one hundred and fifteen million hours
of Season ten have been watched to date across both
platforms as well as on small digital apps. Season ten
reached over eleven and a half Holy shit, that's insane.
Eleven and a half million. I thought that was like
not even true. Wow, that's crazy. And a lot of
(14:02):
the most watched cable series of twenty twenty three in
the eighteen to forty nine demo, which is the sweet spot,
that's all the advertisers Bravo has made millions and millions
of dollars. This is the realm they must protect. That
is yeah, well wow, all right, so now we're going
to get into it. That's shocking. I'm glad I read
(14:23):
that before getting into the reunion. Okay, so it's all
they cash their checks, Yes, they've all got ferraris. Let's go.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And a lot of people are.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Obviously tuning in for the first time hearing about scannabal
and rewatching old episodes. A lot of people are rewatching
past seasons that I went on. Yeah, oh yeah, of course,
trying to figure out like, oh, did this happen in season.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Oh no, all boats rise with the tide. Totally fan
going back, and no one's making money on residuals. It's
insane ratings. Wow, but anywhow. Okay, so let's take a breath.
I want to I just got jacked up, so I
want to get jacked down. I want to read to
you from the reunion, the transcript some of Sorry, you
(15:10):
were only really on the second of the reunion, Okay, yeah,
because there was a restraining order.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I think technically I was only on the third part
of the three part reunion. Okay. I was in the
trailer watching the reunion.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
For the first two parts.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Okay, So I watched the I watched all of the reunion.
That's what I did watch in a couple of episodes,
but of the scandal. But I watched the reunion and
I got my pen and paper and I wrote some
things down because I was in shock, and maybe not
having watched ten years of this, I could sort of
(15:49):
just see something in a vacuum, and and it isn't
a vacuum because I haven't watched. If you've been duplicitive
or dishonest, duplicitous or dishonest, or or things that people
think about you. But I know that you're a human being.
I know that you could be my daughter, and I
know that Andy Cohen is a parent and Lisa vander
(16:10):
Pump is a parent, and that your castmates are all
going to war because they just were on the biggest
show of twenty twenty three. So I'm putting all of
this in my mind, and I just want to read
to you what was said to you in a very
short period of time on the reunion diabolical, demented, subhuman,
(16:33):
Shut the fuck up, fuck you, fuck yourself with a
fucking cheese grater. You're disgusting, and I wish the worst
that can ever happen to a person on you. And
then you said I feel like a piece of shit.
And then it was said to you about you, she's
a and then Lala says, my love, I think you
(16:54):
need to get mentally evaluated. You're truly insane. And then
you say, I'm getting mentally evaluated. And then it said
to you you're a fucking psychopath, You're a dementor, you're
a soul sucking individual. You are ugly, you're hideous, you're
(17:14):
rotten on the inside, rotten rotten, like a moldy piece
of fruit, rotten. You are nothing. You are nothing. You
are nothing. But that's sinking because I know it's hard
for you to let other people's thoughts go into your
brain because you never have had an original thought of
your own. You are nothing. You're dead to everybody. Now,
(17:37):
I'm really sorry. Like that was actually said to you
on national television. And then you said, no one handed
you a tissue. I saw Ariana got a tissue. No
one handed you a tissue. And then you started to
walk off and Andy said, hold on, come back. What
(18:08):
does that mean to you? Hearing those words like in
a row, like I wrote them down and just read them.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Nobody should ever be spoken to like that.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
We're all human, we're just navigating through life, and we're
bound to make mistakes. I know that I'm not lesser
than or even greater than anybody else. That's one of
the lessons that I learned at the Meadows.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I also.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Hearing that it's very difficult in that moment to accept
those words that are being thrown at you, and it's
much easier to disassociate.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
And just let it fly on over.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Because who can even accept that and be like, oh,
you're throwing this stuff at me, Let me look at it. Oh, yeah,
that's all mine. No, Like, I can see that those
words are filled with hate and are intended to put
(19:30):
me down and make me feel like someone who is
not worthy of love, who's not worthy of acceptance or
living life. And I know that I am worthy. I
think every single person on this earth is worthy of
(19:54):
living a life full of love. I this might be
a little bit of a tangent, but I'm adopted and
my mom couldn't give birth. So her sister got pregnant
(20:15):
with me and asked my mom if she wanted to
have this baby, and so she gave birth to me
and gave me to my adopted mom. And I think
that I am a miracle to be able to live
(20:37):
in this world, this planet we call earth, And I
just can't accept those words good.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And you know, I thought to myself, what must your
parents think when they hear that? And like, you'll maybe
one day have a daughter or a son, and like
what would they think when this lives up? You know,
and I have a daughter And if I would have
killed someone honestly, so I don't know you and I
don't know what happened. But I know you're a person,
and I know that I've read somewhere that Andy said,
like about Tommy is a human being or something, But like,
(21:15):
has anyone said that you're a human being?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
No, I've been told that I'm sub human.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So why do you think Andy said, hold on, come
back to someone. He's been a Bravo executive, he's in
a superior role, he's a parent, he's been a producer,
and he's you know, he's fifty four years old. He's like, oh,
you know, he's a little older than I am. But like,
I'm not saying your kid. But in this world with
(21:41):
producers and a network and eleven and a half million viewers,
you're the employee. You know, who's the protector of the employee?
Where's you know you're gonna go to HR and say
people call me subhuman? Piece of garbage?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Like where's if I did? I don't know. They've be like, well,
that's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
And then it was said to you you should leave
and never come back. No one wants you buy Ariana
gets a tissue and then sociopath, you have no more friends,
you moron? So did someone ask you to come back,
like on the reunion, did you walk away? Did someone
(22:25):
ask you to come to come back?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Honestly, I can't even remember. In that moment, I believe
I walked away to get a sip of water, because
when I get nervous, my mouth gets parched. And I
kinda already knew that I would be emotionally abused by
(22:54):
my cast members by going back and do and doing
the reunion.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
It was like your penance.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, It's like I have to own up to it,
and I have to like, like, do I deserve this hate?
Like is this hate justified? Because what I have done
is so horrendous.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Well, my therapist. I have a therapist called doctor Matt Pulowitz.
He's a really nice guy. He's very gentle, he's very sweet.
He's saved my life in a way that's about another
story for another time. But I asked him to watch
the reunion. I mean, a grown man who's a professional,
And I said to him, will you watch this for me,
and will you tell me what you think. He's a psychologist,
(23:41):
he's obviously a therapist, and he said something interesting. He said,
there's a difference between punishment and abuse. He said, punishment
is your banished from the friend group. No almost speak
to you. So let's say a wive's husband cheats, like
she won't speak to him for six months, he's sleeping.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
In the doghouse.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Maybe she doesn't to get a divorce. Maybe a divorce
is a punishment. It's a punishment. He said. This was
not a punishment from everybody. This was abuse, which was
very interesting. And he said that the reunion, He said,
have I ever witnessed an intervention or a situation where
there's a group, like group therapy, or like a reunion,
(24:19):
he said, in this particular case, usually there's a goal,
he said, In this particular case, he said, there was
no goal for conflict resolution. It was just a beat
down on a treadmill. He said, it was a loop.
It was just a constant beating that you know was abusive.
And I looked up. You know, many studies say that
(24:41):
emotional abuse can be as difficult as physical abuse. And
I want to get into what then happened, the further
abuse that you had online and what that was like after.
But the definition of emotional abuse is a way to
control by using emotions to embarrass, shame, Frighten, criticize blame
(25:03):
or manipulate another and verbal aggression, intimidation, manipulation, and humiliation,
which unfolds as a pattern of behavior over time that
aims to diminish another person's sense of identity, dignity, and
self worth. Do you feel like you've been emotionally abused?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Absolutely? In the moment, I felt like I deserved it.
But after taking some time away and seeing things more objectively,
absolutely I was emotionally abused.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And did you feel protected at all? By why do
you think would you have expected a producer to maybe
step in and stop or the host or Lisa show
whose name is on the show, Like would you have
expected someone to be like she's been beaten and let's
stop this?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Absolutely? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And I feel like a part of a reunion is
to hear what people have to say about it. You
got yourself into this mess. Now you need to lay
in this bed that you made for yourself. What do
you have to say for yourself? Like when people do
things that are out of character, it's only human nature
(26:33):
to want to know why and what do you have
to say? Like are you remorseful? Or are you just laughing?
But that wasn't There was no opportunity for me to
even speak and share what I was going through and
why I found Tom to be this person that I
(26:54):
connected to in an emotional way that I didn't connect
to anybody else, and what needs were I sorry, what
needs were being met in this relationship and why did
I compromise my values when everyone that has seen me
(27:16):
since season five to season ten has seen this girl
that's reserved, shy, naive, but very sweet, and season ten
was so out of character for me. It just viewing
(27:37):
that alone, it would make me want to know why
what is going on internally with this girl to be
involved in this situation, but that was not.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
The space for me.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So but doctor Matt was right, there was no room
for confide resolution. That wasn't the goal.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Absolutely not
Before we get into the reunion, I would like to
hear about Sina and you and then the dog.
Speaker 2 (00:18):
Yes, the dog.
Speaker 1 (00:20):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (00:21):
There's still a lot to unpack here.
Speaker 3 (00:24):
So Shina did physically assault me that night, and I
have a permanent scar on my eyebrow, and at the moment,
I thought I deserved it. That's why I just stood
there and let it happen. She pushed me as hard
(00:45):
as she could against a brick wall. The back of
my head hit the wall pretty hard, and then she
socked me in the eye and I was in shock.
She threw my phone in the street and then called
Arianna from her phone and I immediately ran to my
phone and it was a brand new iPhone, so it's like, oh, no,
(01:07):
it is it cracked, but it was fine. I called
Tom immediately and I was like, Shina just punched me
in the face, and he was like, oh, I know.
I heard her say to Ariana, I just punched that
bitch in her face and threw her phone in the street.
So it's just nuts that she's doubled down on this
(01:27):
narrative that I'm a liar and a cheat and that
I completely fabricated this assault for whatever reason.
Speaker 2 (01:39):
I don't think that filing a restraining.
Speaker 3 (01:45):
Order was out of question because she was making this
like punch emoji on a post that she made with Arianna,
saying like, I've always got your back, and it just
I didn't feel safe. So it's just unfortunate that.
Speaker 2 (02:08):
I've been. I don't know.
Speaker 3 (02:11):
It just doesn't make sense to me how I can
be assaulted and then still has.
Speaker 2 (02:18):
So much vitriol and I think.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
And still be the villain. Yeah, yeah, did you sign
up for this? Like? Did you sign up for all
of this? That's what people will say. She signed Everyone
knows what they're getting into. They've seen the show. She
signed up for this.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
You know what, Bethany, I really thought that reality TV
was going to be fun.
Speaker 1 (02:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (02:41):
I thought it would be a great experience for me
to step out of my comfort zone.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So what I didn't ask you is how did you
feel knowing someone that you thought you were in love
with recorded you and then it ends up on a
TV show? I mean, within a cast of a TV show.
Speaker 3 (03:02):
I felt very betrayed. I felt like I couldn't trust
this person. I felt like my privacy didn't matter to him,
and he didn't really.
Speaker 2 (03:22):
Give a good excuse.
Speaker 3 (03:23):
Besides, he wanted me to see it later on to
see how beautiful I was. But if he would have
asked for permission, I would have said no. When Tom
and I were filming at my apartment, after filming got
picked back up, I said to Tom, how can I
(03:44):
trust you? You filmed me without my consent? And he
admitted to it. But then after that scene wrapped, he said,
why did you say that? Why did you say that
on camera? You made me look bad? And I was like, well,
because that's what happened, and like you know, and he
(04:05):
ended up boycotting filming the rest of scandabal so that
he could have editing rights to that scene to take
out that species.
Speaker 1 (04:15):
He said, I'm not filming that you take that out. Yes,
I've seen that happen before. Yeah, yeah, I've seen that happen. Yet, Wow,
has he gotten the same level of hate that you
have for the affair?
Speaker 2 (04:37):
I'm not sure.
Speaker 3 (04:39):
I think he's getting a lot of hate right now
just being pompous and like being around town with a
bunch of different girls.
Speaker 2 (04:48):
But I feel like it's true.
Speaker 3 (04:51):
The woman does the woman does get the short end
of the stick.
Speaker 1 (04:57):
That makes sense, does so Tom owns the bar with
he owned shorts and Tom Tom and then Schwartz and Sandy.
Speaker 3 (05:05):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (05:05):
So the Beth Andy clause is something that was a
result of my Skinny Girl deal. And it says that
businesses that are showcased on reality shows that the cast
members have to kick up to the network a percentage.
So I assume that Bravo profits off of these bars
and Lisa vander Pump's bars. So Tom is a is
(05:29):
a partner in these bars.
Speaker 2 (05:31):
Yes he is.
Speaker 1 (05:32):
So he profits off of the marketing that the show provides,
and then Bravo profits off of the sales and everybody
was going into these bars. Is he a producer?
Speaker 3 (05:46):
He's not technically a producer. He's been on the series
from day one, season one. H there. I don't know
if I'm even a to disclose this information, but he did.
He did tell me during negotiations for season eleven that
(06:08):
he was offered a producer credit.
Speaker 2 (06:11):
For season eleven.
Speaker 3 (06:12):
Oh okay, so I think he was being rewarded for.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
The scandalal of it all. Wow, And.
Speaker 3 (06:25):
To me, that's just kind of gross because it seems
it makes me skeptical, like was this really just something
that was fabricated for this end result.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
You know, it sounds like everyone. It sounds like Lisa
vander Pump is profiting, Bravo's profiting, Andy Cohen's definitely profiting,
Tom is profiting, Arianna is profiting. So and you're in
a death, you're in debt? Interesting and.
Speaker 2 (07:08):
Is Lisa vander.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
Pump in a position to protect you? Guys within this
place you're working, Like, are you supposed to feel like
someone's there to protect you, that there's someone to go to,
a supervisor, a manager, a boss.
Speaker 3 (07:24):
There really isn't anybody that's a safe place to go to.
I don't think that anybody on that show has my
best interest at heart, So it's hard for me to
be so trusting like I once was.
Speaker 1 (07:44):
And people have spent like Kristen has a spin off.
She was fired years ago and now she's back and
she has a spinoff coming right, Yes, So you kind
of get sucked in and you'll do whatever it is
because you want to get a spinoff and you want
your bar to succeed. So it sounds logical that people
would play the game because take a few punches, you're
making money.
Speaker 3 (08:05):
You're selling your soul essentially, and this past season really
did feel like the first season where I was like,
oh my god, I am selling my soul. And it's
interesting that you mentioned Kristen because Kristin was just starting
about Kristin was just starting to talk about her tumultuous
(08:28):
relationship with James and what happened behind closed doors, and
then all of a sudden she's presented with the spinoff,
which I believe is a way to silence her, to
keep that under wraps so that the longevity of vander
Pump Rules can continue.
Speaker 2 (08:50):
The realm, protect the realm.
Speaker 1 (08:51):
So there is there is an alleged physical abuse. There's
a physical abuse allegation with Kristen and James, Yes, and
people say something was cut out of and I've gotten
people that have called me about other incidents related to that.
(09:12):
And you think that a spinoff is good hush money
for someone who was fired for like a racist an
alleged racist act.
Speaker 3 (09:21):
Yeah, I think she was in relation with Stassy and
they both got fired at the same time. But I
do believe what she has said about James. I know
James is I've seen him be a violent person, so
I have no doubt that what she's saying is true.
(09:43):
I hope that one day it will come to light
and there will be justice.
Speaker 1 (09:51):
It's it's so crazy. Sometimes reality TV is like the
upside down. People are rewarded for bad behavior and you know, negativity,
like I've said, bankruptcy. In no other world, you know,
does does the does the boss the entity? Like pull
in and highlight addiction, drinking affairs, bankruptcy, going to jail
(10:15):
like that's you know, in other workplaces, that's frowned upon.
So reality TV is the upside down, you know, and
it's interesting. Yeah, I don't know. I like I said,
I haven't watched the show, so I don't know about
Kristin and I don't know about the firing. But then
to the pendulum to swing and get a spinoff from
fired to spinoff is a big it's an interesting swing.
Speaker 3 (10:35):
It is interesting because the cast members that were fired
and canceled at that time now have this big comeback
because this scandal is so salacious that we are the
ultimate villains, Tom and I and now they have a
platform to redeem themselves.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
Wow. Okay, all right, so we're going to get into
the reunion. So because that's the last time really anyone
saw you Yeah, I want to read something to you
that you experienced, but I don't know if when you
hear it, just read to you. And for the audience too,
the audience that tuned in. The ratings were astronomical. It's
(11:17):
the biggest event that Bravos had in a really long time.
It's a cash cow millions, tens of millions of dollars advertisers.
It was a ratings juggernaut. The ratings were I think
I read somewhere total viewers were in like eleven million
or something. I mean, how much greater were the ratings
(11:38):
during Scandal than a normal season? And was the show failing?
I've heard rumors that the show is failing. It was
on autopilot and kind of on the way down, and
scandalval revived it. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (11:49):
Alex Baskin went on record himself, he's our executive producer
of Nder Pump Roles, and he said the show was
going to be canceled the season ten and if it
wasn't for scand of all, there wouldn't be another season.
Speaker 2 (12:05):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
What were the ratings before and what were the ratings after?
Speaker 3 (12:20):
I don't know the numbers, but I would be very
curious to know because well.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
It says vander pump Rule's viewers did not dip out
of season ten finale. It hid highs for the Bravo show.
The episode which showed the fault drew a combined audience
of four point one million viewers on Bravo on Demand
and the Peacock within three days of that viewership, Oh wow,
two point four million in the demo to give everyone
(12:47):
a frame of reference at the peak of successful housewives
that I've been on, and of course Beverly Hills does
really well. But like Atlanta back in the old days,
the hey Day would get four million, like back in
the Hay I don't but they never got two point
four million in the demo. That's the sweet spot for Bravo.
That's the advertisers. Like, the most I've ever seen for
(13:09):
Housewives is with a one in front of it, maybe
a million. That's astronomical that demo. Wow, yeah, the target, Yeah,
the ratings are. I would be willing to bet that
the demo was probably a couple hundred thousand when it
was failing, and then it went up to two point
four million. It probably shot up. Oh wow. Season ten
(13:32):
reached over eleven and a half million. Total viewers. That is,
that's bigger.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Than network numbers.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
That's outrageous. More than one hundred and fifteen million hours
of Season ten have been watched to date across both
platforms as well as on small digital apps. Season ten
reached over eleven and a half Holy shit, that's insane.
Eleven and a half million. I thought that was like
not even true. Wow, that's crazy. And a lot of
(14:02):
the most watched cable series of twenty twenty three in
the eighteen to forty nine demo, which is the sweet spot,
that's all the advertisers Bravo has made millions and millions
of dollars. This is the realm they must protect. That
is yeah, well wow, all right, so now we're going
to get into it. That's shocking. I'm glad I read
(14:23):
that before getting into the reunion. Okay, so it's all
they cash their checks, Yes, they've all got ferraris. Let's go.
Speaker 2 (14:30):
And a lot of people are.
Speaker 3 (14:33):
Obviously tuning in for the first time hearing about scannabal
and rewatching old episodes. A lot of people are rewatching
past seasons that I went on. Yeah, oh yeah, of course,
trying to figure out like, oh, did this happen in season.
Speaker 1 (14:48):
Oh no, all boats rise with the tide. Totally fan
going back, and no one's making money on residuals. It's
insane ratings. Wow, but anywhow. Okay, so let's take a breath.
I want to I just got jacked up, so I
want to get jacked down. I want to read to
you from the reunion, the transcript some of Sorry, you
(15:10):
were only really on the second of the reunion, Okay, yeah,
because there was a restraining order.
Speaker 3 (15:16):
I think technically I was only on the third part
of the three part reunion. Okay. I was in the
trailer watching the reunion.
Speaker 2 (15:26):
For the first two parts.
Speaker 1 (15:28):
Okay, So I watched the I watched all of the reunion.
That's what I did watch in a couple of episodes,
but of the scandal. But I watched the reunion and
I got my pen and paper and I wrote some
things down because I was in shock, and maybe not
having watched ten years of this, I could sort of
(15:49):
just see something in a vacuum, and and it isn't
a vacuum because I haven't watched. If you've been duplicitive
or dishonest, duplicitous or dishonest, or or things that people
think about you. But I know that you're a human being.
I know that you could be my daughter, and I
know that Andy Cohen is a parent and Lisa vander
(16:10):
Pump is a parent, and that your castmates are all
going to war because they just were on the biggest
show of twenty twenty three. So I'm putting all of
this in my mind, and I just want to read
to you what was said to you in a very
short period of time on the reunion diabolical, demented, subhuman,
(16:33):
Shut the fuck up, fuck you, fuck yourself with a
fucking cheese grater. You're disgusting, and I wish the worst
that can ever happen to a person on you. And
then you said I feel like a piece of shit.
And then it was said to you about you, she's
a and then Lala says, my love, I think you
(16:54):
need to get mentally evaluated. You're truly insane. And then
you say, I'm getting mentally evaluated. And then it said
to you you're a fucking psychopath, You're a dementor, you're
a soul sucking individual. You are ugly, you're hideous, you're
(17:14):
rotten on the inside, rotten rotten, like a moldy piece
of fruit, rotten. You are nothing. You are nothing. You
are nothing. But that's sinking because I know it's hard
for you to let other people's thoughts go into your
brain because you never have had an original thought of
your own. You are nothing. You're dead to everybody. Now,
(17:37):
I'm really sorry. Like that was actually said to you
on national television. And then you said, no one handed
you a tissue. I saw Ariana got a tissue. No
one handed you a tissue. And then you started to
walk off and Andy said, hold on, come back. What
(18:08):
does that mean to you? Hearing those words like in
a row, like I wrote them down and just read them.
Speaker 2 (18:17):
Nobody should ever be spoken to like that.
Speaker 3 (18:23):
We're all human, we're just navigating through life, and we're
bound to make mistakes. I know that I'm not lesser
than or even greater than anybody else. That's one of
the lessons that I learned at the Meadows.
Speaker 2 (18:45):
I also.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
Hearing that it's very difficult in that moment to accept
those words that are being thrown at you, and it's
much easier to disassociate.
Speaker 2 (19:03):
And just let it fly on over.
Speaker 3 (19:08):
Because who can even accept that and be like, oh,
you're throwing this stuff at me, Let me look at it. Oh, yeah,
that's all mine. No, Like, I can see that those
words are filled with hate and are intended to put
(19:30):
me down and make me feel like someone who is
not worthy of love, who's not worthy of acceptance or
living life. And I know that I am worthy. I
think every single person on this earth is worthy of
(19:54):
living a life full of love. I this might be
a little bit of a tangent, but I'm adopted and
my mom couldn't give birth. So her sister got pregnant
(20:15):
with me and asked my mom if she wanted to
have this baby, and so she gave birth to me
and gave me to my adopted mom. And I think
that I am a miracle to be able to live
(20:37):
in this world, this planet we call earth, And I
just can't accept those words good.
Speaker 1 (20:53):
And you know, I thought to myself, what must your
parents think when they hear that? And like, you'll maybe
one day have a daughter or a son, and like
what would they think when this lives up? You know,
and I have a daughter And if I would have
killed someone honestly, so I don't know you and I
don't know what happened. But I know you're a person,
and I know that I've read somewhere that Andy said,
like about Tommy is a human being or something, But like,
(21:15):
has anyone said that you're a human being?
Speaker 2 (21:17):
No, I've been told that I'm sub human.
Speaker 1 (21:20):
So why do you think Andy said, hold on, come
back to someone. He's been a Bravo executive, he's in
a superior role, he's a parent, he's been a producer,
and he's you know, he's fifty four years old. He's like, oh,
you know, he's a little older than I am. But like,
I'm not saying your kid. But in this world with
(21:41):
producers and a network and eleven and a half million viewers,
you're the employee. You know, who's the protector of the employee?
Where's you know you're gonna go to HR and say
people call me subhuman? Piece of garbage?
Speaker 2 (21:57):
Like where's if I did? I don't know. They've be like, well,
that's the nature of the beast.
Speaker 1 (22:04):
And then it was said to you you should leave
and never come back. No one wants you buy Ariana
gets a tissue and then sociopath, you have no more friends,
you moron? So did someone ask you to come back,
like on the reunion, did you walk away? Did someone
(22:25):
ask you to come to come back?
Speaker 3 (22:32):
Honestly, I can't even remember. In that moment, I believe
I walked away to get a sip of water, because
when I get nervous, my mouth gets parched. And I
kinda already knew that I would be emotionally abused by
(22:54):
my cast members by going back and do and doing
the reunion.
Speaker 1 (23:00):
It was like your penance.
Speaker 3 (23:02):
Yeah, It's like I have to own up to it,
and I have to like, like, do I deserve this hate?
Like is this hate justified? Because what I have done
is so horrendous.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
Well, my therapist. I have a therapist called doctor Matt Pulowitz.
He's a really nice guy. He's very gentle, he's very sweet.
He's saved my life in a way that's about another
story for another time. But I asked him to watch
the reunion. I mean, a grown man who's a professional,
And I said to him, will you watch this for me,
and will you tell me what you think. He's a psychologist,
(23:41):
he's obviously a therapist, and he said something interesting. He said,
there's a difference between punishment and abuse. He said, punishment
is your banished from the friend group. No almost speak
to you. So let's say a wive's husband cheats, like
she won't speak to him for six months, he's sleeping.
Speaker 2 (23:58):
In the doghouse.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Maybe she doesn't to get a divorce. Maybe a divorce
is a punishment. It's a punishment. He said. This was
not a punishment from everybody. This was abuse, which was
very interesting. And he said that the reunion, He said,
have I ever witnessed an intervention or a situation where
there's a group, like group therapy, or like a reunion,
(24:19):
he said, in this particular case, usually there's a goal,
he said, In this particular case, he said, there was
no goal for conflict resolution. It was just a beat
down on a treadmill. He said, it was a loop.
It was just a constant beating that you know was abusive.
And I looked up. You know, many studies say that
(24:41):
emotional abuse can be as difficult as physical abuse. And
I want to get into what then happened, the further
abuse that you had online and what that was like after.
But the definition of emotional abuse is a way to
control by using emotions to embarrass, shame, Frighten, criticize blame
(25:03):
or manipulate another and verbal aggression, intimidation, manipulation, and humiliation,
which unfolds as a pattern of behavior over time that
aims to diminish another person's sense of identity, dignity, and
self worth. Do you feel like you've been emotionally abused?
Speaker 3 (25:32):
Absolutely? In the moment, I felt like I deserved it.
But after taking some time away and seeing things more objectively,
absolutely I was emotionally abused.
Speaker 1 (25:50):
And did you feel protected at all? By why do
you think would you have expected a producer to maybe
step in and stop or the host or Lisa show
whose name is on the show, Like would you have
expected someone to be like she's been beaten and let's
stop this?
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Absolutely? Yeah?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
And I feel like a part of a reunion is
to hear what people have to say about it. You
got yourself into this mess. Now you need to lay
in this bed that you made for yourself. What do
you have to say for yourself? Like when people do
things that are out of character, it's only human nature
(26:33):
to want to know why and what do you have
to say? Like are you remorseful? Or are you just laughing?
But that wasn't There was no opportunity for me to
even speak and share what I was going through and
why I found Tom to be this person that I
(26:54):
connected to in an emotional way that I didn't connect
to anybody else, and what needs were I sorry, what
needs were being met in this relationship and why did
I compromise my values when everyone that has seen me
(27:16):
since season five to season ten has seen this girl
that's reserved, shy, naive, but very sweet, and season ten
was so out of character for me. It just viewing
(27:37):
that alone, it would make me want to know why
what is going on internally with this girl to be
involved in this situation, but that was not.
Speaker 2 (27:55):
The space for me.
Speaker 1 (27:57):
So but doctor Matt was right, there was no room
for confide resolution. That wasn't the goal.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Absolutely not
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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