February 15, 2024 • 46 mins
Real estate investor and host of HGTV’s Flip or Flop joins Bethenny to share details from his personal and professional journey. From drug addiction, to losing full control of himself, to co-hosting a show with his Ex-wife while she was pregnant with her new boyfriend’s baby!
Plus, details on the intimate and emotionally beneficial side to homeownership you probably have never heard!
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:12):
Taric El Musa is an American real estate investor and
TV personality. He's best known for co hosting HGTV's Flip
or Flop alongside his ex wife, Christina Hall. Tark is
here to talk about his journey in real estate and
his life. His new book is called Flip Your Life.
Great great read. Definitely, this is one you're going to
(00:35):
want to listen to. This will just be with tarik
El Musa. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm doing fantastic. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I have been reading about you, and I guess it's
obviously I've heard about you and heard your name, But
as happens with many people, I then start eating about
them and I'm like, holy shit, this guy's had a life.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
It's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So you seem to be pretty transparent and out there
about everything you've experienced, maybe even more so now than ever.
But that's something that really jumped off the page for me.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
You know, you know, looking back in the last twenty
years of my life, I'll look at that. You know,
there there have been a lot of struggles, a lot
of ups, a lot of downs, and you know, I'm
still here still working, still motivated, still thriving. And that's
really what my new book's about. It's about flipping your life,
and I really talk about it doesn't matter how bad
your life is. You know, we all go through shit,
we all go through some really really hard times, and
(01:42):
it's what you do during during those times is what
determines your future. You know, most people, something bad happens
in their life, you know, and sometimes no waste years
are even decades dwelling on negative past experiences. And I'm
a big believer in just acceptance, accepting your situation, accepting
that you know, life's not fair, and because life's not fair,
you've got to do the best you can with what
(02:02):
you got, and you got to keep.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Going, yeah, and reinventing yourself. And I guess you're I'm
very much like that, where whatever's happening, as brutal as
it is, even when it's happening, I realized that, like
there's meaning to it and that there will be. I
think it is golf like golf holes. You're at what
hole are you at? You at the fourth hole? Sometimes
you stay there forever, someon as you go backwards, but
(02:26):
hopefully to get through the game. So you always knew
you wanted to be in real estate. That was something
that you thought of young.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No, I didn't actually know. I always wanted to be
in real estate.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
When I was an eighteen nineteen year old kid, I
was dating a girl in her family where real estate investors,
and her dad would tell me war stories from the
nineteen sixties, how he would play poker and lose houses
on hands and these wild stories. Unfortunately, he liked gambling,
especially on horses, and he didn't have much at the
time that I met him. At the time, I was
actually selling kitchen knives. Lost my lead book one day,
(03:00):
so put myself out of business. Standing at an ATM
and a parking lot, asking myself what's next. I looked
over and there was a crooked sign flapping in the
wind and said, wise old out real estate school. So
I thought to myself, you know, if I can sell knives,
I could probably sell houses.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And that's how I got started.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Oh wow, and do you love real estate? Like do
you love the game of it? And it is I mean,
you're talking about a horse gamber. I grew up at
the racetrack, being a I would say, it's a side hustle.
Like it's a passion of mine. I love to invest
in real estate, and I do. I have flipped houses
sort of intentionally. I want to talk to you about
the psychology of that and the decisions in that. But
(03:38):
do you it is like it is like a gamble
sometimes I mean calculated, but there you know, you can't
predict the top or the bottom, and sometimes you get screwed.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I mean it depends on what you qualify as screwed. Right, So,
if you're investing over twenty years and two of those
twenty years didn't go.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So well, did you get screwed or did you do
really well? Well?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I say you did really really well. I say the
analogy all the time. If I gave you a million
dollars twenty times and you went to Vegas and you
only want eighteen times, would you still.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Go Yeah, it's so true. That's very true.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's true because I sometimes think about the one apartment
that I lost on which bothers me. But you're right,
I've sold probably six seven places and done well.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So that's true.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
It's the averages, and it's the fear that prevents people
from getting in the game, and that fear prevents them
from building wealth, and we all know we need to
be buying real estate. And the funny thing is, you know,
most people, when they get older, their entire net worth
comes from their primary residence. So imagine if everyone that
owned a home just bought one or two more, what
would those golden years look like?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, that's a good question, you flip. So do you
believe in really keeping real estate? Do you believe in
a combination? Meaning some people invest in real estate so
it's an income producing asset that's going to throw off
money every month. Some people want to like get in
and get out. I like the get in and get out,
you know, holding a couple of things. But I'm not
a person that psychologically wants to hold so many places.
(05:04):
And I want to know, but many people I know
do think you should hold the assets for what do
you think?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Well, one hundred million percent hold the assets.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
The reason I got into flipping houses was so I
can make money so I can buy real estate.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Okay, so today I own a.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Little over two hundred rental properties, you know, over well
over a thousand apartments. We're developing self storage, we're developing
multi family. But here's the most important thing I've learned
over the years. You buy it, you said it, and
you forget it. I mean, I looked at all these
deals I flipped years ago. I literally could have stopped
flipping houses eight years ago and just held the ones
(05:43):
I had, and probably would have made more money than
flipping almost a thousand houses.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
If you're renting them out or if you're just holding
them because of the direction the market's gone, because you're
not renting them out. And renting them out means you
have to be a landlord. So like, I had a
four thousand square apartment in New York City that I
was never going to rent out that I was paying
you know, a lot a year on, so I had to.
I wanted to let it go because I felt like
it's just sucking up income. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Oh, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I would never have an asset sitting there not receiving
cash flow.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And I think a lot of people get confused about
what investing is, Like, I don't want the headaches of
holding and this and that. The only time you have
headaches is if you create the headaches, meaning if you
get involved as a real estate investor. You're not a
property manager. You shouldn't be talking to tennis. You shouldn't
be worrying about repairs. You hire people to do that,
and your job is to go out there find more
deals and continue to build wealth.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Great, so we agree.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, so you're talking about it as an income producing asset,
but you don't believe in holding.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You don't believe in.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Having three homes of your own that are just sitting
there hoping that the market will go up and in
five years will be worth more. That's not what you're
talking about.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
You're talking about I mean, yeah, I mean sure, Like
you know, you're a billionaire with a limited money and
you don't give a shit and yeah sure, But like
you know, for the normal person, having an asset sitting
there sucking away your cash flow isn't a good thing
to have.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
So that is something I would not do.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And where are you on? Are you always about owning
versus renting? Because some people think in situations based on
your money being in the market versus being in a property,
they would rather rent, not have the property sucking up
their money.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
See, that's that's one of those things that we've been
seeing a lot over the last couple of years, don't
buy a house and this and that. So here's the truth, right, So, like,
does it make more sense to probably buy some rental
properties first before buying a primary residence. It probably does.
But let's think about this. We're humans, right, we have families,
we're here once. There's more to life than just money.
(07:39):
And I think owning a home and having pride of
ownership is very very important, especially for you know your
self worth, your confidence, and you want to be excited
about the place that you live. You want to come
home and feel good. So sometimes by owning a house,
you know, you actually end up becoming more successful because
the way it makes you feel.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
By the way, I could not agree. I think it's pride.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And even if it's like I'm a person that likes
small and perfect like whatever it is, you know, designed
with an inach of its life, if it's going to
make you feel good, I'm that person too. I'd much
rather spend money on the home than on something else,
like then a bag or something else. That's that's very smart.
And so now it's all your own money, do you
have investors? Like, how does that all work? And how
(08:23):
did it work? In the beginning and you know, have
you gotten caught holding the bag? Like, what's that ride been? Like?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I got started flipping houses. I
came up with the idea in twenty ten, and I
actually pitched the idea of getting a TV show about
flipping houses before I've ever flipped a house, So that
was a wild experience.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
So bought my first flip in twenty ten, bought it
out the auction for one hundred and fifteen thousand. That
same week that I bought a flip, I went to
a real estate convention in Las Vegas. There was about
five thousand people there and I met a guy and
at the break he was telling me he had a
local TV show and he got all this business out
of it. So I was like, man, I got to
get on TV. Two days later, I went home and
I just had this crazy idea, Let's get a TV show.
(09:04):
I told my ex wife. She said TV show about what.
I said, Well, we just bought our first house to flip.
Why don't we flip houses on TV?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Nice?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
She said? She called me crazy. She went to bed.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I jumped on Google Hollywood production companies. They came up
found button that said, casting, sent some pictures, and next
morning I woke up and they said, send a home video.
And that's where it all started. Yeah yeah, so yeah,
very like.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Let's go. I'm the state. You're very like, all right,
let's do it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Let's go right now, let's go.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
I believe anything's possible, and if you got to go
for it every single day or you're never going to
go anywhere. So I'm a believer that, like you know,
manifestation is a real thing if you're willing to work
your ass off, right, So so they responded, send a
home video, so we documented that very first flip. Of
course they loved it. I didn't know anything about construction.
I mean I electric tutd myself. I burned my feet
with acid. I painted all the baseboards to the floor.
(09:52):
So I just did everything wrong.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
But I was there.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
I was there twelve fourteen hours a day, got the
deal done start to finish with the buyer closed under
sixty days, thirty four thousand dollars. And for me back then,
it was life changing because it was getting right out
of the Great Recession, and that very first deal, I
found a partner and the deal was we went fifty
to fifty. The deal went well, so moving forward, I
had no money, so he put up all the money.
(10:15):
I did all the work. We split fifty to fifty.
So that's how we launched the business. And then in
two thousand so I shot the pilot. Actually, ten months
after we delivered the home video, we shot a pilot
for HGTV.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
They finally wanted a pilot.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Then I was told, you know, the odds of getting
a show are small, and if you get a show,
it's going to take a long time. So two weeks
later I get a contract for a house flipping show
on HGTV where I got to flip thirteen houses and
ten months.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Oh my god, right, No, it sounds very torturous.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
It sounds two problems.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Two problems. One, I have no idea how to flip houses.
Problem too, even if I did, we're in the world.
Am I gonna get all this money cash flock?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So you know, I called my lawyer. I said, what's
the worst case. He said, they could sue you. I
looked around my apartment. I said, they can have it signed.
That contract burned the boats. That first year, I worked
all day and then overnight I would drive properties that
were going to the auction in the morning to make
sure nobody lived there. So from ten PM to four am,
I drove southern California by myself.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And then every morning at nine am, I was at
the auction.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Unbelievable, and that guy put up that money.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
He put up that money, and I kept bringing better
and better deals. He kept putting on money, and then
we became full blown business partners. Outside of that, we
started raising capital and you know, started flipping mid twenty ten.
By two thousand and I think fourteen, we had as
many as seventy to eighty flips going at one time. So,
you know, I've always changed my life very fast, safe,
(11:39):
and I'm a big believer that you can make money
very fast. Most people think it's this twenty year or
ten year thing. I went for him being a broke
twenty year old kid living in my mom's garage with
cockroaches because I couldn't afford to rent my bedroom because
my parents got divorced, to living at a million dollar
house in ninety days.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, you seem fairly fearless, and you're just like, let's
go and now what's the state of your business. Not
the entertainment aspect, but like, it's your money. You still
are partners with this guy. What kind of investments are
you making? Like what's going on now?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (12:11):
So today I own nine different brands and I run
nine different brands, but the original company is called Tart
Buys Houses. That's where we buy fix and flip, and
we also wholesale houses. So we'll probably this year. The
goal is to do in twenty twenty four three hundred
to three hundred and fifty transactions, and I'm looking to
scale that into the thousands over the next couple of years.
(12:31):
Majority of the deals I'm doing right now is wholesaling.
Are you familiar with wholesaling? No, It's my one of
my favorite things about real estate investing, and most people
don't get started because they think it takes money. It
doesn't take money. So I'm gonna explain wholesaling to you, Bethany.
Let's just say that Bob calls me. He has a
fixer upper. He wants to sell me the house. It
needs a lot of work, but when it's fixed up,
(12:52):
it's worth six hundred thousand. I agree to buy the
house from Bob for three hundred thousand. So in the contract,
the buyer tark al musa oor a signe. Because I
put ora signe. That means I can assign that contract
to someone else. So now I got a contract for
three hundred. I call you, Bethany. Hey, Bethany, I got
this incredible house for four hundred thousand and needs fifty
thousand in work.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's worth six hundred. You want it? Yeah, I want it.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
So now Bethany buys the house from Bob, but I
get the difference in contract price, which in this case
is one hundred thousand dollars. The great thing is I
don't have risk. Why I didn't take a mortgage. I
have no skin in the game. There's no loan, there's
no carrying cost.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
It's like being a diamond broker. You just have the contacts.
Like same thing.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
By the way, selling handbags on the secondary market, no
one knows where to go, who the buyer is. You
just know you're going to these people that are taking
twenty five percent because you just want to get rid
of your arms bag. But they know where all the
people are, and that's a service. That is they deserve
the money because I don't know who the hell Jane
is who wants the bag.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Exactly and that's the beautiful thing.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
So I have a company called Homeschooled by Tark where
I teach people how to wholesale houses, how to flip houses.
And it's the most beautiful thing when you have someone
come in knows nothing about real estate, that's struggling, that
can't make their rent, and you watch them, over a
year period, completely flip their.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Life because they can hustle and find the people in between.
That is a skill set. Yeah, they don't have to
touch anything.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Let me tell you how easy house slipping is.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Right, most people, they overcomplicate everything and that's why most
people don't get started. Like I have this gift of
simplifying things. So here's how you flip houses. There's two
ways to find them. Way number one you talk to
people that own them. Way number two, you talk to
people that sell them. So if you can talk to
people that own houses and sell houses and ask them
do you have any fixed ruppers I can buy, you
(14:33):
can flip houses. Two funding you can raise private private money,
or you just wholesale it. Once you get the contract.
Phase three, Well, I'm not fixing the house. Can someone
hire a contractor with references and experience to fix up
the house. Yeah, of course, step four you got to
sell a house. Well, I'm not selling a house. Can
someone hire a real estate agent to listen to sell
that house?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So what is house flipping? House flipping is being good
at finding deals.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
It's like being a producer of a film, puts together
all the elements and they sit at the board. Yeah,
it's like that. There are different ways I have unintentionally
flipped houses, because one I did with Frederick, which did
really which did very well in a market that was changing.
Because you're increasing value if you're willing to do the work,
as you know, that's the thing that people don't want
(15:19):
to do. But for me, I'll look in a space
that I know that's like right near my house, a
neighborhood and area that I know that I'm passionate about,
and I always choose something that I would live in
that I would definitely the shit hit the fan, have
a better property I could sell, and then I'd be
willing to live there that I'm passionate about, that I'm
excited about it, that I like is like another like
jewel Box project. And then because I'm so into it
(15:41):
and I'm passionate about it, I'll either use it or
live there, or sell it, which happened during the pandemic.
I found a place for myself in Connecticut that ended
up being a little smaller than what I would need,
But because it had all my finishing touches and my passion,
I was able to sell it for a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And it happened. I did it.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Twice, so that was I get a little more personal
about it. Like most people are dispassionate, I have to
get really passionate about it.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, And there's different types of investors, right, there's more
of the passionate investor, and then they're more of the
I want to just build wealth and I don't care
about the emotional side investor right exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
But I can't get into it unless i'm into it
because I need to be able to ride both lines.
Like know that you know what I'm saying, Like, I
can't just get into it for like an industrial reason
just mentally, I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, well we might need to work on that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, it's a side thing because I don't want like
I don't I love it, but only I only love
it if it's something I really like for me. So
I just liked the safety aspect if I'm over buying,
Like I bought a house out of like a passionate reason.
I like the safety aspect of knowing I could dump it,
you know what I mean. That's it's sort of more
of like that. So you've had some trouble. It says
(17:01):
you lived in a halfway house, you were addicted to steroids, you.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Went through a cancer scare.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
We'll get into it individually, but in talking to you now,
I'm realizing how you were addicted to steroids.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
You know, looking back reflecting on my life, you know,
I'm forty two years old today and looking back like
I see all the mistakes.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So, throughout my entire life severe ADHD, suffer with anxiety,
always had issues with sleep. My late teen years, I
major sleep issues, which I started drinking so I could
fall asleep, which then in turn turned me into a
raging alcoholic, which then in turn caused me to gain
sixty pounds, which then in turn made me hate myself.
(17:38):
So from eighteen to twenty I was rock bottom, looked
in the mirror, cried every day, hated myself, gained sixty pounds,
clothing wouldn't fit, girls, stopped looking at me, stretch marks
on my body. It was rock bottom, and I thought,
this is it. You peaked in high school. Your life
is over. And I beat this shit out of myself
every single day, and then one day, actually the beginning
(18:01):
of flipping my life for the first time was when
I was living at my mom's house in that garage
because she rented out my bedroom and this guy moved
in from Texas. Tattoos had to toe in my old
bedroom and I see him walking through the kitchen one day.
He says, hey, you want to work out tomorrow, And
I'm sixty pounds overweight, like I'm big, and just to
blow him off like most people moment, yeah sure, and
I'm thinking we're gonna go do a couple of push ups.
(18:23):
The next day, seven o'clock comes, He's like you ready.
I'm like, yeah, let's go to the garage. I have dumbells.
He goes, no, We're going to the gym. I went
to the gym that night for two hours. I almost died.
The next night he made me go. The next night
he made me go. Three weeks later, I started gaining hope.
Six weeks in my body was changing and I was back.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Okay, so that was the first hit and that was another.
It feels like that was extreme too. Now you're like
addicted to the gym, you know, like you need something
to be focusing on. The sleep thing is a big
discussion that probably led to, like you had issues with
hormones and sleep does. Lack of sleep does lead to
so many problems and weight gain in particular, because you're eating.
(19:00):
People are eating their feelings or they think they're hungry,
they're just exhausted. It's like feeding themselves. After I'm going
to tell you, like my I've I've always had struggles
with sleep and it's a discipline and I want to
tell you after what what I do. And I'm even
in twenty twenty four, I have a new sleep I
always have some new sleep regiment.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's working. I go deeper.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I love it. I love that that you just said that.
Like I.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
By the way, I finally mastered my sleep over the
last six months.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I've figured it out.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I'm going to sleep at the same time, I'm waking
up at the same time, and for the first time,
I'm sleeping between between like you know, four and a
half and six hours a night. So it's been just
beautiful and that's.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Not even a ton. But are you okay? So do
you take anything now to see?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So the interesting thing is I was taking all these
different sleeping pills, and what would happen is I would
take them, I'd fall asleep. Thirty minutes later, I'd wake
up in this weird, like delusional state where like I mean,
it's just torture if anyone's been through it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And this is how I overcame it.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
So a lot of the sleep anxiety, as you know
with insomnia, it's like you're in bed at nine o'clock,
nine thirty, ten o'clock, right, and then you're falling asleep
at oh shit, it's eleven, eleven thirty, and then it
starts getting later.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Then you start thinking about the morning, I'm gonna get no.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Sleep, oh my god, counting.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So here's what I did, because I was waking up
at six thirty every day, and one day I said,
you know what, I'm gonna wake up so obnoxiously early.
I can't be stressed out the night before because I'm
gonna have so much free time in the morning. So
I started waking up and it was torture at like
four am.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
But here's what happened.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
The first two weeks were awful because I'd fall asleep
at eleven twelve one, but no matter what, I'd have
to wake up at four. No matter what, Yeah, I'd
make myself wake up at four. And then what happened
was my body became so exhausted. I eventually started falling asleep.
But I had to wake up at four.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, you like had to do? You do like a
boot camp for yourself to try.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
To, like Joel exactly, reset the body.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
So by waking up at four, I got rid of
my anxiety of Okay, I gotta wake up at six,
and I got to be at the gym at seven.
I'm gonna be rush right, So by waking up at four,
I knew I was gonna have a peaceful warning.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And then what happens is you just get so tired.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Eventually, it's ten o'clock at night and you've woken up
at four am for the past two weeks. Naturally, I
started falling asleep, and that's how I fixed my sleeping problem.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
And now I have fallen in love with the mornings.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
The most exciting part of my day is like sometimes
I'll wake up at three and I'm excited to get
up because between three and six thirty am, it's peace.
I got the fire going, it's black outside. I can create,
I can think.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Let me tell you what I did because it's different,
but there are many roads to roam. So yes, I've
used the apps. I think the apps are great. I
do not take anything. I used to be a person too,
I couldn't sleep. I won't take anything. So the first
thing for me is to allow yourself that you may
not fall asleep. Okay, what's going to happen the next day?
Nobody's gonna die. You slept four hours? What you're going
to die?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Who care?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Like? Allow that instead of the noise in the mania
of I have the Today Show tomorrow? Oh my god,
Like that noise had to go. So the noise of
it was like what that was the worst paralysis. That's
the first thing.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Acceptance.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, like okay, so for years it's different. I'm getting
up at four.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It's the same. Those two things are saying the same thing.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
It's a less no but the same thing as you.
Because I what used to trust me. I was thinking, oh,
I'm only going to get four hours of sleep, and
then one night I realized, well, I'm gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Okay, So that's the first thing. It's a boring story.
Nobody cares you didn't sleep, okay. But then what happened
was I started really watching, listening to the stupid things
people say watching TV in a different room. Do not
watch TV in my space. And then I put my
phone on a curfew, like at nine o'clock. But again,
if I wanted to go on the phone, that's fine,
(22:35):
but not have it come in my room. Go to
it like going to the fridge to eat the cake,
Like you still have to go to the other room.
You may not want to eat the cake, but you
at least have to walk your ass into the kitchen
to get it, which is an effort. So now it's
like you want to go see the phone, you thought
of something, You go to the phone like a notebook
to go to it, and then go back to your space.
So I gave my phone at nine o'clock curfew that yes,
you can break some times, like it's not no one's
(22:56):
gonna die, but it's that's a game changer.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And then I have a sleep like a cabinet.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I have this forever in another closet, it's a warming
cabinet and it warms these like herbal neck pillows. Okay,
I right before I go to sleep, I get it.
I put it around my neck. The warmth and the
herbs like calms you down. And I breathe in and
out and you can't get to five breaths, like heavy
deep breaths, and you pass out. And I myself too,
(23:24):
like wind it down at nine o'clock. The phone's curfew
was kind of mine. I'm not fucking around in my
room on anything because there's no TV and no phone,
and I end up sleeping minimum seven seven and a
half hours a night.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
It's changed my life.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
And most people, if they would just understand by creating
a sleep schedule, the rest of their life would be
so much easier.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Beyond beyond, like it. It's so important.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And again I went out to a premier two nights
ago and I went to bed at one o'clock and
it did you know, it wasn't as easy to get
to sleep.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But no one died.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I was tired, and you know, and I find that
when you're on a sleep schedule, you're napping, you can
you can watch TV and your body will fall asleep,
because once you start to allow yourself to sleep, you're
more tired sometimes at other times, like your body is
more relaxed versus being manic.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Absolutely, honestly, I couldn't agree more. Like the number one
focus is sleep. Like I even have this whoop thing
on and every night, you know, I'm competing trying to
get more sleep.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yes, my fiance Paul has the whoop. He loves it
and tells you you're you're in a deficit.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
You did this.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I have a sleep tracker that's under the mattress and
it just basically says, like what happened. It's not as
detailed did that people.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Do the or or ring. It's all good.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You intervened in your life and you live in a
halfway house.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
For me, you know I lost everything, you know when,
and you know in twenty sixteen, the day my ex
wife left me, And you know, I lost everything mostly
because of me and my actions and the way I
treated people. And you know, I went through lock with
the cancers and the steroids, and I have one hundred
(24:59):
percent was not myself by any means. But at the
same time, I wasn't the best guy. So there's a
lot of you know understanding of you know, why my
ex wife left me, but you know, it broke me.
You know, I was in love with her, I was
in love with my family. I was in love with
the life we built, and I felt like it was
taken away from me without any notice, and I wasn't
(25:20):
expecting it. I didn't see it because I was so
spun out of my mind all the time with racing
thoughts from all this distosterone and all these pills and
just so much shit, you know, I was going through,
and it just broke me.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So I was at a point where I didn't know
what was going on. I was.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I was living on my boat actually at the time,
because I had to leave my house and I wasn't
doing well and I was at the point where I
needed help. I didn't trust myself, so I checked myself
into that halfway house. And it was an experience, you know.
I was, you know, fairly you know, successful famous TV shows,
and I'm living with crackheads and heroin addicts and I
have to do laundry and I'm getting you know, alcohol
(25:59):
tests did there's curfew and it was definitely an experience.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
How long were you there?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I was in that I believe I was there for
about sixty days. I was there for about sixty days.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And who suggested that.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
It was actually doctor Drew?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Really?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
I was on the back of my boat with a
couple of my buddies one day mid conversation. You know,
I just fell over, passed out, hit the deck when
I came to, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Literally hit the deck of the boat. Yeah, that's an expression,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yeah, next time I know, my friend puts the phone
on my ear and it's doctor Drew.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
And I knew I knew of him, but I didn't
know him.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And next thing I know, I'm talking to doctor Drew.
And next thing I know, I'm checking into a facility.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Wow, So the Halfway House is a facility. And was
your ex wife supportive? Was she to like traumatize on
her own, on her own journey, Like she was.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Way to traumatize on her own and she was on
her own journey And that was the most difficult part,
you know, it was just it was just too far gone,
and no matter what I did, it was just too late.
So it you know, I yeah, it was very very
tough experience, but you know what, I wouldn't change it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
You know, it.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Changed my life. Took away all these fears and all
these anxieties and all these stresses, and every single thing
I was always worried about and stress about literally disappeared
the day she walked out, and I realized none of
it mattered.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Nothing mattered, you know, you mean, because you lost it
all and you were still alive, like you didn't have
to worry about like the thought of everything, there just
was nothing, so like you were at that was that
was the real bottom?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Is that what you mean?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Meaning everything that would cause stress or pain in my life.
You know, when she left me, I realized that wasn't stress,
that wasn't pain. Her leaving me was the real pain.
And now you know, I've been through so much pain.
When something bad happens, I reflect right, and it's nowhere
near as painful as the shit I've experienced. So I'm
just so much stronger today.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I so relate to that because I had a very
gnarly ten year divorce, But it was so bad, and
I grew up in a very abusive, like dysfunctional, drug
alcoholic you new disorder everything childhood. This was so bad
that like I couldn't imagine surviving and I couldn't imagine
my life being anything but like how bad it was,
(28:27):
it just could you couldn't. It was that golf thing
I told you, Abaud, But like when it was free.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
It was such freedom.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
When it was over, it was like, I mean that
I understand what you're talking about. Like you're just like,
oh my god, I survived this thing. I don't want
to survive anything else, but I kind of could, Like
you survive that thing exactly right.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
It's all that reflection, so like I look, you know,
I got to my cancers in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
They removed my thyroid.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
All my emotions were all over the place because your
thyroid regulates everything. And then they removed my thyroid, and
then they I started taking synthetic medication, but later on
I turned out I was totally under medicated, so I
had a depression, brain fog, fatigue, I wasn't myself. And
then I went through the two surgeries of thyroid cancer
and testicular cancer, and I wasn't feeling good. And then
(29:16):
a couple months later I started feeling better. I went
out to golf one day this is in the book,
took a swing, went to pick up my ball. Next
thing I know, my back went out. I was having
the round of my life, the round of my life.
I've never played golf like I did that day, so
I said, I'm gonna keep going, went to the next hole,
took a swing, hit the ground, screaming.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
And for the next year and a half of my life,
it was.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
It was worse than cancer, to be honest, because I
was taking you know, ten to twelve delauded or vike
it in a purpose at every single day. If you
watch early seasons of my shows, you'll see me go
from two hundred and forty pounds from cancer to one
hundred and sixty five pounds from the pain pills and
the opiates.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Didn't you get sick getting off of it?
Speaker 3 (29:59):
You know? Yeah? You know?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I actually I quit cold Turkey the day that my
back got better. And I didn't know I did okay
when I got off of it. But when I was
on it, like I was, I wasn't. I was not
a good human. Oh my gosh, Like that stuff is toxic.
But the pain I was experiencing from my back was
like nothing I ever experienced in my life. And then
I had the surgery. I came home the night of
(30:23):
the surgery, and then there was complications. My urinary check
was blocked. I thought my bladder was gonna explode. Had
to call the ambulance to go back to the hospital.
So my family, you know, we just went through so
much with two cancers and back surgeries.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And when you say my family, you mean your ex
and your kids. Are your parents? Like who's your family?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Everybody? Everybody? Everybody you have a you have.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
A decent spital, that you have a decent support system.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Absolutely, my my parents are fantastic. They've always been big
supporters of me. My family, family is number one for me.
But during the during those years, like I look back
and I was, I was so gone because I I
had so many different chemicals in my body and and
then I didn't have my hormones, I didn't have my thyroid,
I was on testosterone, I was taking opiates, I was
(31:08):
toughering with anxiety, and it just like I was.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I was dying inside.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I mean I was when was this?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
When was the pinnacle of this?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
What Yearah, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Okay, so not that long ago?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, that was.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yes, almost seven years ago now, no, almost eight years
ago now, Wow, and.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
What is right?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
You were like in a cloud and a fog, but
functioning in business because probably in the first thing in
the morning you can get shit done by the end
of the day.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, and I and honestly, I've just come home at night,
go up to my office, stare at the wall, and
turmoil and pain for no reason whatsoever. Oh my major,
Like you know, mental health, depression, all these things are real,
you know. And I've I've experienced, you know, a lot
of different things. You know.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
I was actually on bipolar medicine for nine years.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
You have had a lot of crap in your body.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Is there anything in your body now or you're like
completely clean of stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I do take ADHD ADHD medicine and that's all I take.
And I started taking that two years ago, and man,
what a vast improvement. So I started taking ADHD medication
for the first time when I was seventeen. So I
got into some trouble when I was seventeen. I ended
up going to juvenile hall for a little bit. And
(32:22):
when I got back, when I got out, they sent
me to the doctor. Turns out at ADHD and they
started me on this medicine and like overnight, my GPA
went from a two point zero to three point eight. Wow,
like overnight, I was calmer. I was eight, But then
like I don't even know, it was so strong. I
was a walking zombie. Like I completely changed my personality.
(32:43):
And then what happened was when I turned eighteen, they
said if I wanted to keep taking my medicine, I
had to go see the doctor because I was an adult. Now,
of course I said no, right, So now, looking back,
that's why.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I went into that free fall. That's why I gained
sixty pounds.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
That's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
That's like going off your bipolar medicine or something like,
you went off your meda and you aren't thinking straight,
so you made your own decisions based on bad judgment.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I did.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
And then I went on that downhill spiral until Justin
came into my life and forced me to go to
the gym. And then two years ago, you know, just
very overwhelmed, and I decided to give it a shot again.
And man, it's been such a game changer for.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Me, the ADHD medicine. Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So yeah, there's a mental health situation here. And so
your ex wife, are you friends you co parent. Do
you have a decent relationship now, Christine.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Yeah, we're actually doing the best we ever have, which
is which is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You know, her and I we communicate regularly. We get along.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
We're extremely friendly. You know, Christine and my wife head
their communicate all the time. They get along great, and
it's and it's been really really good for the last
i'd say, about two two and a half years.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So you have a good blending, blended situation. And your
ex is remarried too.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, yeah, she's she's remarried. Yeah, she's remarried.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Okay, because I feel like the whole thing has been
public and I've seen it in the periphery, but I
don't know about it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Who did she marry? Didn't she marry someone?
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Go on?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Yeah, so, I mean she got remarried twice. So she
got married to a gentleman named Aunt Ann said, who
I'm friends with him now too, and actually had a
baby with him.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
You know, we talk about difficult.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
You know, she got with aunt shortly, you know, after
we separated and I was still filming with her, and
it was a difficult experience watching someone you love girl
baby right, Wow, So talking about pain.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
It was tough because I still loved her, right and
I had to show up every day and watch her
belly grow and think.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Man like holy she's yeah okay.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
But you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
So unfortunately that marriage didn't work out. And then she
got remarried to a gentleman named Josh Hall and and
today they're married and they're they're filming some together.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, so you got a lot of entertainment in this crew,
and so you get along with him and her. It's
all decent, like pretty good.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, we're all totally good.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
You know. Like like I said, if you're always dwelling
on the past and negative experiences and you have hate, rage.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
And it, you're never gonna you're never gonna have a
happy life.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Right. But you're you're doing all this in the entertainment industry,
which makes it like n in LA, which makes it
like double triple challenging. Like I'm friends with Kyle and
Maurice and I watch them on TV and in Beverly Hills.
With the pressure and the money and the businesses, it's
a swirling layered thing.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
It's a lot, it's a lot. You know, but you
know I have no you know, like I said, it's acceptance.
You know, all the anger and rage blah blah, But
at the end of the day, guess what, did I
have a part in it?
Speaker 5 (35:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Do I need to take some responsibility? Yes? So is
it her fault? No, it's our fault.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Well, she must respect the fact that you say that publicly.
That's really because everyone wants to blame everybody else in that.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
I don't know yet.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
I don't know if she's ever heard me say that
public here. Oh okay, well you know I just started
talking recently. Yeah, you're ready. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice.
It's nice. It's amazing what time can do to your
It is.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It is. And that's what I tell people. Man.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Every people waste their entire lives worried and stress and
think about it. The shit we were stressed about when
we were eighteen years old, did any of it matter?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
No?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
The shit we were stressed about when we were twenty
seven did it matter?
Speaker 5 (36:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
The shit were stressed about today? Is it going to
matter in ten years? No?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
No? Well, this woman, this woman on TikTok, I have
to get her name back because it's not fair that
I like, I'm living by this, and I don't remember
her name because I recognize that you gave credit to
the person which we'll talk about, who saw that you
had a bulging something bulging in your neck and is
responsible for you finding out you had cancer, and then
you give doctor Drew credit. But I saw this woman
(36:46):
on TikTok and she was saying the amount of time
and bandwidth we spend trying to control what other people
are doing, saying, like, you know, you can only control yourself,
and it was very liberating for me. And sometimes you
see something at the time you need to hear it.
But I thought that is very powerful.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
One hundred percent. You want to know what changed my life,
and it's a very simple thing.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
One word. So I think it was twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I was looking at Newport Beach, driving up and down
Newport Boulevard, literally just up and down, up and down, up, down, screaming, crying, cursing,
hitting my like so sad and screaming about how life's
not fair.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
It's not fair, this happened. It's not fair.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
I got cancer. It's not fair. I hurt my back.
It's not fair. She left me, and then it hit me,
Life's not fair. And like in that moment, like this
calm came over me except and started and I said,
life's not fair.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Like that, shit happens to good people every day.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
There are things happening exponentially worse than what I'm going through,
to people that don't deserve it.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Life's not fair. So because life's fair, not fair, what
do you do?
Speaker 4 (37:56):
You do the best you can with what you got right,
and the second you acknowledge that you're free, you're free
to go out there and build that new life and
chase those dreams and rebuild yourself.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Well, it's the same thing you're saying about the sleep.
It's allowing for it to be. Okay, you might not
sleep tonight. Okay, you know it's going to die. Like
that happened, this person broke your heart, you were an addict,
you fucked up, it happened, you lost my Like that's
what you're effectively saying. You're saying like it's liberating to
allow for things to be fucked up. It's very liberating
(38:30):
to allow for yourself to get your heart broken or
not sleep. It's like it's allowing for that versus like
trying to hold on to it and have it be
so perfect.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Exactly. It's acceptance.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Like like literally, it is impossible to be a highly
successful individual without being in a lawsuit at one point
in your life.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Right, So what does.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
That mean for anyone who wants to be an entrepreneur?
You better expect that one day you're going to be
in a lawsuit. So when it comes, don't cry to bone,
say okay, it's here.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Costs a business, Yes, totally.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Happens to everybody.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yesterday I let a designer go that I paid most
of their fee for a house that I'm doing, and
I'm going to give somebody else half what they got
and they're going to do double the work because I
got to finish this thing. And I'm mad that I
paid that person all this money and they shit the bed.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
But we are where we are. It's a cost of
doing business.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I can't like want to just stay with that person
and fuck up the whole project because I already paid
them chasing it Like that's what you see, you know
what it's like, we did it exactly.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
I'll give you an example. Early on in my career,
a contractor would burn me or a sub would burn me.
I would spend months fighting over fifteen hundred dollars, hundreds
of hours and energy and letters and anger and hate
and rage.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Today it happened fifteen I said, bye, it happened exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
The money, Yeah, you'll waste more money, keep staying on
the road. Totally.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, we we have a lot of things in common,
like with this philosophy. So Heather, Heather is your wife,
she's all on TV with you, and like this is
another entertainment relationship.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, and it's funny because it's totally it was totally random.
I randomly met Heather. I didn't know about her show.
It wasn't a setup. Was she was living and I
think Sweden dating a hockey player at the time, well
not at the time, but right before I met her.
So it's fourth of July twenty nineteen. We're at Woody's
Bar in Newport Beach and it's like party and the
(40:27):
fires going and people are dancing and it only fits
like five boats.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Luckily I got a spot.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I'm mid conversation and out of the corner of my
mind just seeing this beautiful blonde girl with these braids,
and like mid conversation, I stopped talking. I'd be lying
a right to her, and of course I'm feeling confident
because it's my yacht. Yeah, I put my hand out.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
I go, hi, I'm arch. She goes, oh, I know
who you are.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And I'm thinking, all right, yeah, all right, this is good, good, good,
Thank God for TV. And then she goes, you asked
me out two years ago, don't you remember?
Speaker 3 (40:58):
So shit?
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I said, where I ask you out? She goes Instagram.
So I said one second. So I put my back
to her, pulled up Instagram.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Look.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
She responded she had a boyfriend. So I swung back
around and said still about that boyfriend? She said no.
So I was really excited. A couple of cocktails in,
so I said, hey, you want to go to Paris?
Speaker 3 (41:14):
She said no. I said you want to okay? I said, okay,
you want to go to Las Vegas? Want to do
something funch? She goes, I'm not going anywhere overnight with you.
I said, okay, you want to do dinner? She goes maybe.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
So then we start talking and we started getting into
like a good conversation and then this, you know, like wasisted.
Twenty one year old girl comes over and she was
being obnoxious, So Heather got bothered and she left and
she went back to the boat next to me. So
now I'm sitting there sulking because I hadn't seen one
girl in like four years.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
That I was like wow.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
And then I look on the boat next to me
and I see her and this other guy, this like
good looking guy with nice pretty hair and shade.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
They're laughing.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
She's throwing her hair back, and I'm watching, and I'm
watching my future wife be stolen, right, And.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I said, oh, hell no, I'm not going down like that.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
So I go to the wheelhouse, I find the horn
and I late on that sucker. The whole bar jumped,
like the whole like everybody jumped and they and I
stuck my head out the sunroof and I yelled at
the guy to get off my girl. Luckily, luckily Heather
thought it was funny because they started laughing. So then
I walked out to them. The guy tells me big
(42:18):
fan walks away. I was like, thank.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
God, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
And then I got her number.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
There you've got a number like in a goodwill hunting
and that was it. We were together. In the end
is the rest is history.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
She canceled our first date.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
It was two weeks after, she said I'm not ready
blah blah blah, and I just sent her one text message.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I said, I'm different than you. Think you should give
it a shot.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
So a week later she said she'll give it a shot.
I said, let's do dinner. She said, no, I'll go
for a drink. I don't think she wanted to spend
that much time with me. So I show up. It's
the middle of summer, there's a heat wave, but I
know I look good in this one blue sweater I
wear every Christmas. So, not thinking about the heat wave,
I go to dinner in this blue sweater and the
whole dinner, I'm just sweating. My heart's pounding, I'm having anxiety.
(43:05):
I'm acting like a weirdo. And finally, because you know
I'm an anxious guy to find, she goes, are you okay?
I'm like, no, I am not okay. She goes, let's
just get drunk. I said, I like that. So we
ended up having a couple of drinks, hung out till
like three in the morning, talked the entire way home
on FaceTime.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Four days later, we moved in together and this is it.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You've been together. And then you got married and here
we are and it's a great relationship.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
And our son turns a year old in a couple
of days.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
So you have a baby. And how old are your
other kids?
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Taylor is thirteen years old. I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I have a thirteen year old.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
Oh my gosh, so much fun. I am so obsessed
with my daughter. And you know, we're talking about divorce
right and talking about pain. I never would be the
father I am today if I didn't go through what
I went through.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I was not connected with my daughter when she was younger.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
I was working all the time, and I felt so
shitty about myself. And what I learned is all I
had do was invest the time.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
It's completely an ROI. What everything you put in you
get out. Like, my daughter had a bad day yesterday.
She's thirteen, and I was texting her, like, you know,
because sometimes you want to problem solve with these kids
instead of just being there for them, so they because
they feel safe if you problem solved, they feel alienated.
And so she came home and I just gave her
like the most gigantic hug and was like, I'm here
for you.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
How can I help?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Like, how can I help for a thirteen year old
because they want to yell at you and be frustrated. No, Mom,
it's not. I'm like, how can I help you? Whatever
I can do? It really works.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, No, I love it. It's investing the time.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And like today, me and my daughter, like since she
was five years old, you know, we've been like best friends,
you know.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I mean we're so close.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And me and my son were so close and it's
the most feeling in the world.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
He's eight years old.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So you have a thirteen and eight and a one.
You have a beautiful family and the blending is going
well and they accept your story, your past, and like
you're in a good spot right now, perfect time to
launch a book.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah, everything is just going so well right now. Personally, Like,
you know, I got what I've always wanted. It was
my family back, you know, like I feel like I
have a family again, which I do have a family.
We're a family of five, we had a dog. It
feels good. You know.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
I didn't like being on my own.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I was just lost. I was I mean, it was
just it wasn't fun, you know. And and just to
have Heather in my life and in my kids' lives
and to have this family I have, I'm just very blessed.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
So you have a family, you are sleeping, and you
are successful, and you're at peace.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
So it's a good, good, good story.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
All right.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Well, it was so nice to meet you, so honored
to like hear your story and talk to you, and
I really appreciate it, and I wish you the best
of luck on the book and in life.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Absolutely, it was a great, great chatting with you.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
I've been a big fan of you for many years
and it's been exciting to watch what you've done.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I appreciate. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Great great story and amazing like happy not ending, but
happy moment in time.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Oh, just getting started. Wait till the second book.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Exactly, The next one will be called Life Isn't Fair. Awesome,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
After the flip, all right, we'll see you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Exactly awesome. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Taric was very very interesting, very open, very raw, very vulnerable.
What a ride, young guy for such a story cancer, addiction, breakup, loss,
halfway house.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
ADHD money.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I mean, wow, this guy has a story of ten
people's lives.
Taric El Musa is an American real estate investor and
TV personality. He's best known for co hosting HGTV's Flip
or Flop alongside his ex wife, Christina Hall. Tark is
here to talk about his journey in real estate and
his life. His new book is called Flip Your Life.
Great great read. Definitely, this is one you're going to
(00:35):
want to listen to. This will just be with tarik
El Musa. Let's get into it.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
How are you.
Speaker 3 (00:44):
I'm doing fantastic. How are you?
Speaker 2 (00:47):
I'm okay.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
I have been reading about you, and I guess it's
obviously I've heard about you and heard your name, But
as happens with many people, I then start eating about
them and I'm like, holy shit, this guy's had a life.
Speaker 3 (01:04):
It's been interesting.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:06):
So you seem to be pretty transparent and out there
about everything you've experienced, maybe even more so now than ever.
But that's something that really jumped off the page for me.
Speaker 2 (01:20):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (01:20):
You know, you know, looking back in the last twenty
years of my life, I'll look at that. You know,
there there have been a lot of struggles, a lot
of ups, a lot of downs, and you know, I'm
still here still working, still motivated, still thriving. And that's
really what my new book's about. It's about flipping your life,
and I really talk about it doesn't matter how bad
your life is. You know, we all go through shit,
we all go through some really really hard times, and
(01:42):
it's what you do during during those times is what
determines your future. You know, most people, something bad happens
in their life, you know, and sometimes no waste years
are even decades dwelling on negative past experiences. And I'm
a big believer in just acceptance, accepting your situation, accepting
that you know, life's not fair, and because life's not fair,
you've got to do the best you can with what
(02:02):
you got, and you got to keep.
Speaker 1 (02:03):
Going, yeah, and reinventing yourself. And I guess you're I'm
very much like that, where whatever's happening, as brutal as
it is, even when it's happening, I realized that, like
there's meaning to it and that there will be. I
think it is golf like golf holes. You're at what
hole are you at? You at the fourth hole? Sometimes
you stay there forever, someon as you go backwards, but
(02:26):
hopefully to get through the game. So you always knew
you wanted to be in real estate. That was something
that you thought of young.
Speaker 3 (02:35):
No, I didn't actually know. I always wanted to be
in real estate.
Speaker 4 (02:37):
When I was an eighteen nineteen year old kid, I
was dating a girl in her family where real estate investors,
and her dad would tell me war stories from the
nineteen sixties, how he would play poker and lose houses
on hands and these wild stories. Unfortunately, he liked gambling,
especially on horses, and he didn't have much at the
time that I met him. At the time, I was
actually selling kitchen knives. Lost my lead book one day,
(03:00):
so put myself out of business. Standing at an ATM
and a parking lot, asking myself what's next. I looked
over and there was a crooked sign flapping in the
wind and said, wise old out real estate school. So
I thought to myself, you know, if I can sell knives,
I could probably sell houses.
Speaker 3 (03:15):
And that's how I got started.
Speaker 1 (03:17):
Oh wow, and do you love real estate? Like do
you love the game of it? And it is I mean,
you're talking about a horse gamber. I grew up at
the racetrack, being a I would say, it's a side hustle.
Like it's a passion of mine. I love to invest
in real estate, and I do. I have flipped houses
sort of intentionally. I want to talk to you about
the psychology of that and the decisions in that. But
(03:38):
do you it is like it is like a gamble
sometimes I mean calculated, but there you know, you can't
predict the top or the bottom, and sometimes you get screwed.
Speaker 3 (03:48):
Yeah, you know.
Speaker 4 (03:49):
I mean it depends on what you qualify as screwed. Right, So,
if you're investing over twenty years and two of those
twenty years didn't go.
Speaker 3 (03:56):
So well, did you get screwed or did you do
really well? Well?
Speaker 4 (03:59):
I say you did really really well. I say the
analogy all the time. If I gave you a million
dollars twenty times and you went to Vegas and you
only want eighteen times, would you still.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Go Yeah, it's so true. That's very true.
Speaker 1 (04:11):
It's true because I sometimes think about the one apartment
that I lost on which bothers me. But you're right,
I've sold probably six seven places and done well.
Speaker 2 (04:20):
So that's true.
Speaker 3 (04:21):
Exactly.
Speaker 4 (04:21):
It's the averages, and it's the fear that prevents people
from getting in the game, and that fear prevents them
from building wealth, and we all know we need to
be buying real estate. And the funny thing is, you know,
most people, when they get older, their entire net worth
comes from their primary residence. So imagine if everyone that
owned a home just bought one or two more, what
would those golden years look like?
Speaker 1 (04:41):
Well, that's a good question, you flip. So do you
believe in really keeping real estate? Do you believe in
a combination? Meaning some people invest in real estate so
it's an income producing asset that's going to throw off
money every month. Some people want to like get in
and get out. I like the get in and get out,
you know, holding a couple of things. But I'm not
a person that psychologically wants to hold so many places.
(05:04):
And I want to know, but many people I know
do think you should hold the assets for what do
you think?
Speaker 3 (05:10):
Well, one hundred million percent hold the assets.
Speaker 4 (05:12):
The reason I got into flipping houses was so I
can make money so I can buy real estate.
Speaker 3 (05:20):
Okay, so today I own a.
Speaker 4 (05:22):
Little over two hundred rental properties, you know, over well
over a thousand apartments. We're developing self storage, we're developing
multi family. But here's the most important thing I've learned
over the years. You buy it, you said it, and
you forget it. I mean, I looked at all these
deals I flipped years ago. I literally could have stopped
flipping houses eight years ago and just held the ones
(05:43):
I had, and probably would have made more money than
flipping almost a thousand houses.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
If you're renting them out or if you're just holding
them because of the direction the market's gone, because you're
not renting them out. And renting them out means you
have to be a landlord. So like, I had a
four thousand square apartment in New York City that I
was never going to rent out that I was paying
you know, a lot a year on, so I had to.
I wanted to let it go because I felt like
it's just sucking up income. What do you think about that?
Speaker 3 (06:10):
Oh, one hundred percent.
Speaker 4 (06:10):
I would never have an asset sitting there not receiving
cash flow.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Okay, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 4 (06:16):
And I think a lot of people get confused about
what investing is, Like, I don't want the headaches of
holding and this and that. The only time you have
headaches is if you create the headaches, meaning if you
get involved as a real estate investor. You're not a
property manager. You shouldn't be talking to tennis. You shouldn't
be worrying about repairs. You hire people to do that,
and your job is to go out there find more
deals and continue to build wealth.
Speaker 2 (06:36):
Great, so we agree.
Speaker 1 (06:37):
Okay, so you're talking about it as an income producing asset,
but you don't believe in holding.
Speaker 2 (06:41):
You don't believe in.
Speaker 1 (06:42):
Having three homes of your own that are just sitting
there hoping that the market will go up and in
five years will be worth more. That's not what you're
talking about.
Speaker 5 (06:50):
You're talking about I mean, yeah, I mean sure, Like
you know, you're a billionaire with a limited money and
you don't give a shit and yeah sure, But like
you know, for the normal person, having an asset sitting
there sucking away your cash flow isn't a good thing
to have.
Speaker 3 (07:03):
So that is something I would not do.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
And where are you on? Are you always about owning
versus renting? Because some people think in situations based on
your money being in the market versus being in a property,
they would rather rent, not have the property sucking up
their money.
Speaker 3 (07:18):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (07:18):
See, that's that's one of those things that we've been
seeing a lot over the last couple of years, don't
buy a house and this and that. So here's the truth, right, So, like,
does it make more sense to probably buy some rental
properties first before buying a primary residence. It probably does.
But let's think about this. We're humans, right, we have families,
we're here once. There's more to life than just money.
(07:39):
And I think owning a home and having pride of
ownership is very very important, especially for you know your
self worth, your confidence, and you want to be excited
about the place that you live. You want to come
home and feel good. So sometimes by owning a house,
you know, you actually end up becoming more successful because
the way it makes you feel.
Speaker 2 (08:00):
By the way, I could not agree. I think it's pride.
Speaker 1 (08:02):
And even if it's like I'm a person that likes
small and perfect like whatever it is, you know, designed
with an inach of its life, if it's going to
make you feel good, I'm that person too. I'd much
rather spend money on the home than on something else,
like then a bag or something else. That's that's very smart.
And so now it's all your own money, do you
have investors? Like, how does that all work? And how
(08:23):
did it work? In the beginning and you know, have
you gotten caught holding the bag? Like, what's that ride been? Like?
Speaker 4 (08:29):
Yeah, yeah, absolutely. So I got started flipping houses. I
came up with the idea in twenty ten, and I
actually pitched the idea of getting a TV show about
flipping houses before I've ever flipped a house, So that
was a wild experience.
Speaker 3 (08:41):
Yeah.
Speaker 4 (08:42):
So bought my first flip in twenty ten, bought it
out the auction for one hundred and fifteen thousand. That
same week that I bought a flip, I went to
a real estate convention in Las Vegas. There was about
five thousand people there and I met a guy and
at the break he was telling me he had a
local TV show and he got all this business out
of it. So I was like, man, I got to
get on TV. Two days later, I went home and
I just had this crazy idea, Let's get a TV show.
(09:04):
I told my ex wife. She said TV show about what.
I said, Well, we just bought our first house to flip.
Why don't we flip houses on TV?
Speaker 2 (09:10):
Nice?
Speaker 3 (09:11):
She said? She called me crazy. She went to bed.
Speaker 4 (09:13):
I jumped on Google Hollywood production companies. They came up
found button that said, casting, sent some pictures, and next
morning I woke up and they said, send a home video.
And that's where it all started. Yeah yeah, so yeah,
very like.
Speaker 2 (09:27):
Let's go. I'm the state. You're very like, all right,
let's do it.
Speaker 3 (09:29):
Let's go right now, let's go.
Speaker 4 (09:31):
I believe anything's possible, and if you got to go
for it every single day or you're never going to
go anywhere. So I'm a believer that, like you know,
manifestation is a real thing if you're willing to work
your ass off, right, So so they responded, send a
home video, so we documented that very first flip. Of
course they loved it. I didn't know anything about construction.
I mean I electric tutd myself. I burned my feet
with acid. I painted all the baseboards to the floor.
(09:52):
So I just did everything wrong.
Speaker 3 (09:53):
But I was there.
Speaker 4 (09:54):
I was there twelve fourteen hours a day, got the
deal done start to finish with the buyer closed under
sixty days, thirty four thousand dollars. And for me back then,
it was life changing because it was getting right out
of the Great Recession, and that very first deal, I
found a partner and the deal was we went fifty
to fifty. The deal went well, so moving forward, I
had no money, so he put up all the money.
(10:15):
I did all the work. We split fifty to fifty.
So that's how we launched the business. And then in
two thousand so I shot the pilot. Actually, ten months
after we delivered the home video, we shot a pilot
for HGTV.
Speaker 3 (10:28):
They finally wanted a pilot.
Speaker 4 (10:30):
Then I was told, you know, the odds of getting
a show are small, and if you get a show,
it's going to take a long time. So two weeks
later I get a contract for a house flipping show
on HGTV where I got to flip thirteen houses and
ten months.
Speaker 2 (10:40):
Oh my god, right, No, it sounds very torturous.
Speaker 3 (10:44):
It sounds two problems.
Speaker 4 (10:45):
Two problems. One, I have no idea how to flip houses.
Problem too, even if I did, we're in the world.
Am I gonna get all this money cash flock?
Speaker 3 (10:52):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (10:53):
So you know, I called my lawyer. I said, what's
the worst case. He said, they could sue you. I
looked around my apartment. I said, they can have it signed.
That contract burned the boats. That first year, I worked
all day and then overnight I would drive properties that
were going to the auction in the morning to make
sure nobody lived there. So from ten PM to four am,
I drove southern California by myself.
Speaker 3 (11:11):
And then every morning at nine am, I was at
the auction.
Speaker 2 (11:14):
Unbelievable, and that guy put up that money.
Speaker 4 (11:17):
He put up that money, and I kept bringing better
and better deals. He kept putting on money, and then
we became full blown business partners. Outside of that, we
started raising capital and you know, started flipping mid twenty ten.
By two thousand and I think fourteen, we had as
many as seventy to eighty flips going at one time. So,
you know, I've always changed my life very fast, safe,
(11:39):
and I'm a big believer that you can make money
very fast. Most people think it's this twenty year or
ten year thing. I went for him being a broke
twenty year old kid living in my mom's garage with
cockroaches because I couldn't afford to rent my bedroom because
my parents got divorced, to living at a million dollar
house in ninety days.
Speaker 1 (11:57):
Yeah, you seem fairly fearless, and you're just like, let's
go and now what's the state of your business. Not
the entertainment aspect, but like, it's your money. You still
are partners with this guy. What kind of investments are
you making? Like what's going on now?
Speaker 3 (12:10):
Absolutely?
Speaker 4 (12:11):
So today I own nine different brands and I run
nine different brands, but the original company is called Tart
Buys Houses. That's where we buy fix and flip, and
we also wholesale houses. So we'll probably this year. The
goal is to do in twenty twenty four three hundred
to three hundred and fifty transactions, and I'm looking to
scale that into the thousands over the next couple of years.
(12:31):
Majority of the deals I'm doing right now is wholesaling.
Are you familiar with wholesaling? No, It's my one of
my favorite things about real estate investing, and most people
don't get started because they think it takes money. It
doesn't take money. So I'm gonna explain wholesaling to you, Bethany.
Let's just say that Bob calls me. He has a
fixer upper. He wants to sell me the house. It
needs a lot of work, but when it's fixed up,
(12:52):
it's worth six hundred thousand. I agree to buy the
house from Bob for three hundred thousand. So in the contract,
the buyer tark al musa oor a signe. Because I
put ora signe. That means I can assign that contract
to someone else. So now I got a contract for
three hundred. I call you, Bethany. Hey, Bethany, I got
this incredible house for four hundred thousand and needs fifty
thousand in work.
Speaker 3 (13:12):
It's worth six hundred. You want it? Yeah, I want it.
Speaker 4 (13:15):
So now Bethany buys the house from Bob, but I
get the difference in contract price, which in this case
is one hundred thousand dollars. The great thing is I
don't have risk. Why I didn't take a mortgage. I
have no skin in the game. There's no loan, there's
no carrying cost.
Speaker 2 (13:28):
It's like being a diamond broker. You just have the contacts.
Like same thing.
Speaker 1 (13:32):
By the way, selling handbags on the secondary market, no
one knows where to go, who the buyer is. You
just know you're going to these people that are taking
twenty five percent because you just want to get rid
of your arms bag. But they know where all the
people are, and that's a service. That is they deserve
the money because I don't know who the hell Jane
is who wants the bag.
Speaker 3 (13:49):
Exactly and that's the beautiful thing.
Speaker 4 (13:51):
So I have a company called Homeschooled by Tark where
I teach people how to wholesale houses, how to flip houses.
And it's the most beautiful thing when you have someone
come in knows nothing about real estate, that's struggling, that
can't make their rent, and you watch them, over a
year period, completely flip their.
Speaker 2 (14:07):
Life because they can hustle and find the people in between.
That is a skill set. Yeah, they don't have to
touch anything.
Speaker 3 (14:11):
Let me tell you how easy house slipping is.
Speaker 4 (14:13):
Right, most people, they overcomplicate everything and that's why most
people don't get started. Like I have this gift of
simplifying things. So here's how you flip houses. There's two
ways to find them. Way number one you talk to
people that own them. Way number two, you talk to
people that sell them. So if you can talk to
people that own houses and sell houses and ask them
do you have any fixed ruppers I can buy, you
(14:33):
can flip houses. Two funding you can raise private private money,
or you just wholesale it. Once you get the contract.
Phase three, Well, I'm not fixing the house. Can someone
hire a contractor with references and experience to fix up
the house. Yeah, of course, step four you got to
sell a house. Well, I'm not selling a house. Can
someone hire a real estate agent to listen to sell
that house?
Speaker 3 (14:53):
Yeah?
Speaker 4 (14:54):
So what is house flipping? House flipping is being good
at finding deals.
Speaker 1 (14:58):
It's like being a producer of a film, puts together
all the elements and they sit at the board. Yeah,
it's like that. There are different ways I have unintentionally
flipped houses, because one I did with Frederick, which did
really which did very well in a market that was changing.
Because you're increasing value if you're willing to do the work,
as you know, that's the thing that people don't want
(15:19):
to do. But for me, I'll look in a space
that I know that's like right near my house, a
neighborhood and area that I know that I'm passionate about,
and I always choose something that I would live in
that I would definitely the shit hit the fan, have
a better property I could sell, and then I'd be
willing to live there that I'm passionate about, that I'm
excited about it, that I like is like another like
jewel Box project. And then because I'm so into it
(15:41):
and I'm passionate about it, I'll either use it or
live there, or sell it, which happened during the pandemic.
I found a place for myself in Connecticut that ended
up being a little smaller than what I would need,
But because it had all my finishing touches and my passion,
I was able to sell it for a lot of money.
Speaker 2 (15:57):
And it happened. I did it.
Speaker 1 (15:58):
Twice, so that was I get a little more personal
about it. Like most people are dispassionate, I have to
get really passionate about it.
Speaker 4 (16:06):
Yeah, And there's different types of investors, right, there's more
of the passionate investor, and then they're more of the
I want to just build wealth and I don't care
about the emotional side investor right exactly.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
But I can't get into it unless i'm into it
because I need to be able to ride both lines.
Like know that you know what I'm saying, Like, I
can't just get into it for like an industrial reason
just mentally, I don't know why.
Speaker 3 (16:24):
Yeah, well we might need to work on that.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
Well, it's a side thing because I don't want like
I don't I love it, but only I only love
it if it's something I really like for me. So
I just liked the safety aspect if I'm over buying,
Like I bought a house out of like a passionate reason.
I like the safety aspect of knowing I could dump it,
you know what I mean. That's it's sort of more
of like that. So you've had some trouble. It says
(17:01):
you lived in a halfway house, you were addicted to steroids, you.
Speaker 2 (17:04):
Went through a cancer scare.
Speaker 1 (17:05):
We'll get into it individually, but in talking to you now,
I'm realizing how you were addicted to steroids.
Speaker 4 (17:11):
You know, looking back reflecting on my life, you know,
I'm forty two years old today and looking back like
I see all the mistakes.
Speaker 3 (17:16):
Right.
Speaker 4 (17:17):
So, throughout my entire life severe ADHD, suffer with anxiety,
always had issues with sleep. My late teen years, I
major sleep issues, which I started drinking so I could
fall asleep, which then in turn turned me into a
raging alcoholic, which then in turn caused me to gain
sixty pounds, which then in turn made me hate myself.
(17:38):
So from eighteen to twenty I was rock bottom, looked
in the mirror, cried every day, hated myself, gained sixty pounds,
clothing wouldn't fit, girls, stopped looking at me, stretch marks
on my body. It was rock bottom, and I thought,
this is it. You peaked in high school. Your life
is over. And I beat this shit out of myself
every single day, and then one day, actually the beginning
(18:01):
of flipping my life for the first time was when
I was living at my mom's house in that garage
because she rented out my bedroom and this guy moved
in from Texas. Tattoos had to toe in my old
bedroom and I see him walking through the kitchen one day.
He says, hey, you want to work out tomorrow, And
I'm sixty pounds overweight, like I'm big, and just to
blow him off like most people moment, yeah sure, and
I'm thinking we're gonna go do a couple of push ups.
(18:23):
The next day, seven o'clock comes, He's like you ready.
I'm like, yeah, let's go to the garage. I have dumbells.
He goes, no, We're going to the gym. I went
to the gym that night for two hours. I almost died.
The next night he made me go. The next night
he made me go. Three weeks later, I started gaining hope.
Six weeks in my body was changing and I was back.
Speaker 3 (18:39):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
Okay, so that was the first hit and that was another.
It feels like that was extreme too. Now you're like
addicted to the gym, you know, like you need something
to be focusing on. The sleep thing is a big
discussion that probably led to, like you had issues with
hormones and sleep does. Lack of sleep does lead to
so many problems and weight gain in particular, because you're eating.
(19:00):
People are eating their feelings or they think they're hungry,
they're just exhausted. It's like feeding themselves. After I'm going
to tell you, like my I've I've always had struggles
with sleep and it's a discipline and I want to
tell you after what what I do. And I'm even
in twenty twenty four, I have a new sleep I
always have some new sleep regiment.
Speaker 2 (19:16):
It's working. I go deeper.
Speaker 3 (19:18):
I love it. I love that that you just said that.
Like I.
Speaker 4 (19:21):
By the way, I finally mastered my sleep over the
last six months.
Speaker 3 (19:25):
I've figured it out.
Speaker 4 (19:26):
I'm going to sleep at the same time, I'm waking
up at the same time, and for the first time,
I'm sleeping between between like you know, four and a
half and six hours a night. So it's been just
beautiful and that's.
Speaker 1 (19:37):
Not even a ton. But are you okay? So do
you take anything now to see?
Speaker 4 (19:41):
So the interesting thing is I was taking all these
different sleeping pills, and what would happen is I would
take them, I'd fall asleep. Thirty minutes later, I'd wake
up in this weird, like delusional state where like I mean,
it's just torture if anyone's been through it.
Speaker 3 (19:54):
And this is how I overcame it.
Speaker 4 (19:55):
So a lot of the sleep anxiety, as you know
with insomnia, it's like you're in bed at nine o'clock,
nine thirty, ten o'clock, right, and then you're falling asleep
at oh shit, it's eleven, eleven thirty, and then it
starts getting later.
Speaker 3 (20:04):
Then you start thinking about the morning, I'm gonna get no.
Speaker 2 (20:05):
Sleep, oh my god, counting.
Speaker 4 (20:07):
So here's what I did, because I was waking up
at six thirty every day, and one day I said,
you know what, I'm gonna wake up so obnoxiously early.
I can't be stressed out the night before because I'm
gonna have so much free time in the morning. So
I started waking up and it was torture at like
four am.
Speaker 3 (20:22):
But here's what happened.
Speaker 4 (20:23):
The first two weeks were awful because I'd fall asleep
at eleven twelve one, but no matter what, I'd have
to wake up at four. No matter what, Yeah, I'd
make myself wake up at four. And then what happened
was my body became so exhausted. I eventually started falling asleep.
But I had to wake up at four.
Speaker 2 (20:44):
Oh, you like had to do? You do like a
boot camp for yourself to try.
Speaker 3 (20:46):
To, like Joel exactly, reset the body.
Speaker 4 (20:49):
So by waking up at four, I got rid of
my anxiety of Okay, I gotta wake up at six,
and I got to be at the gym at seven.
I'm gonna be rush right, So by waking up at four,
I knew I was gonna have a peaceful warning.
Speaker 3 (21:00):
And then what happens is you just get so tired.
Speaker 4 (21:03):
Eventually, it's ten o'clock at night and you've woken up
at four am for the past two weeks. Naturally, I
started falling asleep, and that's how I fixed my sleeping problem.
Speaker 3 (21:11):
And now I have fallen in love with the mornings.
Speaker 4 (21:15):
The most exciting part of my day is like sometimes
I'll wake up at three and I'm excited to get
up because between three and six thirty am, it's peace.
I got the fire going, it's black outside. I can create,
I can think.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Let me tell you what I did because it's different,
but there are many roads to roam. So yes, I've
used the apps. I think the apps are great. I
do not take anything. I used to be a person too,
I couldn't sleep. I won't take anything. So the first
thing for me is to allow yourself that you may
not fall asleep. Okay, what's going to happen the next day?
Nobody's gonna die. You slept four hours? What you're going
to die?
Speaker 2 (21:45):
Who care?
Speaker 1 (21:46):
Like? Allow that instead of the noise in the mania
of I have the Today Show tomorrow? Oh my god,
Like that noise had to go. So the noise of
it was like what that was the worst paralysis. That's
the first thing.
Speaker 3 (21:59):
Acceptance.
Speaker 1 (22:00):
Yeah, like okay, so for years it's different. I'm getting
up at four.
Speaker 2 (22:03):
It's the same. Those two things are saying the same thing.
Speaker 4 (22:05):
It's a less no but the same thing as you.
Because I what used to trust me. I was thinking, oh,
I'm only going to get four hours of sleep, and
then one night I realized, well, I'm gonna be fine.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
Okay, So that's the first thing. It's a boring story.
Nobody cares you didn't sleep, okay. But then what happened
was I started really watching, listening to the stupid things
people say watching TV in a different room. Do not
watch TV in my space. And then I put my
phone on a curfew, like at nine o'clock. But again,
if I wanted to go on the phone, that's fine,
(22:35):
but not have it come in my room. Go to
it like going to the fridge to eat the cake,
Like you still have to go to the other room.
You may not want to eat the cake, but you
at least have to walk your ass into the kitchen
to get it, which is an effort. So now it's
like you want to go see the phone, you thought
of something, You go to the phone like a notebook
to go to it, and then go back to your space.
So I gave my phone at nine o'clock curfew that yes,
you can break some times, like it's not no one's
(22:56):
gonna die, but it's that's a game changer.
Speaker 2 (22:58):
And then I have a sleep like a cabinet.
Speaker 1 (23:02):
I have this forever in another closet, it's a warming
cabinet and it warms these like herbal neck pillows. Okay,
I right before I go to sleep, I get it.
I put it around my neck. The warmth and the
herbs like calms you down. And I breathe in and
out and you can't get to five breaths, like heavy
deep breaths, and you pass out. And I myself too,
(23:24):
like wind it down at nine o'clock. The phone's curfew
was kind of mine. I'm not fucking around in my
room on anything because there's no TV and no phone,
and I end up sleeping minimum seven seven and a
half hours a night.
Speaker 2 (23:35):
It's changed my life.
Speaker 3 (23:37):
That's beautiful.
Speaker 4 (23:37):
And most people, if they would just understand by creating
a sleep schedule, the rest of their life would be
so much easier.
Speaker 2 (23:44):
Beyond beyond, like it. It's so important.
Speaker 1 (23:47):
And again I went out to a premier two nights
ago and I went to bed at one o'clock and
it did you know, it wasn't as easy to get
to sleep.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
But no one died.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
I was tired, and you know, and I find that
when you're on a sleep schedule, you're napping, you can
you can watch TV and your body will fall asleep,
because once you start to allow yourself to sleep, you're
more tired sometimes at other times, like your body is
more relaxed versus being manic.
Speaker 4 (24:10):
Absolutely, honestly, I couldn't agree more. Like the number one
focus is sleep. Like I even have this whoop thing
on and every night, you know, I'm competing trying to
get more sleep.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
Yes, my fiance Paul has the whoop. He loves it
and tells you you're you're in a deficit.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
You did this.
Speaker 1 (24:24):
I have a sleep tracker that's under the mattress and
it just basically says, like what happened. It's not as
detailed did that people.
Speaker 2 (24:31):
Do the or or ring. It's all good.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
You intervened in your life and you live in a
halfway house.
Speaker 4 (24:37):
For me, you know I lost everything, you know when,
and you know in twenty sixteen, the day my ex
wife left me, And you know, I lost everything mostly
because of me and my actions and the way I
treated people. And you know, I went through lock with
the cancers and the steroids, and I have one hundred
(24:59):
percent was not myself by any means. But at the
same time, I wasn't the best guy. So there's a
lot of you know understanding of you know, why my
ex wife left me, but you know, it broke me.
You know, I was in love with her, I was
in love with my family. I was in love with
the life we built, and I felt like it was
taken away from me without any notice, and I wasn't
(25:20):
expecting it. I didn't see it because I was so
spun out of my mind all the time with racing
thoughts from all this distosterone and all these pills and
just so much shit, you know, I was going through,
and it just broke me.
Speaker 3 (25:34):
So I was at a point where I didn't know
what was going on. I was.
Speaker 4 (25:37):
I was living on my boat actually at the time,
because I had to leave my house and I wasn't
doing well and I was at the point where I
needed help. I didn't trust myself, so I checked myself
into that halfway house. And it was an experience, you know.
I was, you know, fairly you know, successful famous TV shows,
and I'm living with crackheads and heroin addicts and I
have to do laundry and I'm getting you know, alcohol
(25:59):
tests did there's curfew and it was definitely an experience.
Speaker 2 (26:03):
How long were you there?
Speaker 3 (26:05):
I was in that I believe I was there for
about sixty days. I was there for about sixty days.
Speaker 2 (26:09):
And who suggested that.
Speaker 3 (26:12):
It was actually doctor Drew?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Really?
Speaker 3 (26:15):
Yeah? Yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:16):
I was on the back of my boat with a
couple of my buddies one day mid conversation. You know,
I just fell over, passed out, hit the deck when
I came to, you know.
Speaker 1 (26:24):
Literally hit the deck of the boat. Yeah, that's an expression,
but yeah.
Speaker 4 (26:28):
Yeah, next time I know, my friend puts the phone
on my ear and it's doctor Drew.
Speaker 3 (26:32):
And I knew I knew of him, but I didn't
know him.
Speaker 4 (26:39):
And next thing I know, I'm talking to doctor Drew.
And next thing I know, I'm checking into a facility.
Speaker 1 (26:43):
Wow, So the Halfway House is a facility. And was
your ex wife supportive? Was she to like traumatize on
her own, on her own journey, Like she was.
Speaker 4 (26:54):
Way to traumatize on her own and she was on
her own journey And that was the most difficult part,
you know, it was just it was just too far gone,
and no matter what I did, it was just too late.
So it you know, I yeah, it was very very
tough experience, but you know what, I wouldn't change it.
Speaker 3 (27:15):
You know, it.
Speaker 4 (27:17):
Changed my life. Took away all these fears and all
these anxieties and all these stresses, and every single thing
I was always worried about and stress about literally disappeared
the day she walked out, and I realized none of
it mattered.
Speaker 1 (27:33):
Nothing mattered, you know, you mean, because you lost it
all and you were still alive, like you didn't have
to worry about like the thought of everything, there just
was nothing, so like you were at that was that
was the real bottom?
Speaker 2 (27:45):
Is that what you mean?
Speaker 3 (27:47):
No?
Speaker 4 (27:47):
Meaning everything that would cause stress or pain in my life.
You know, when she left me, I realized that wasn't stress,
that wasn't pain. Her leaving me was the real pain.
And now you know, I've been through so much pain.
When something bad happens, I reflect right, and it's nowhere
near as painful as the shit I've experienced. So I'm
just so much stronger today.
Speaker 1 (28:07):
I so relate to that because I had a very
gnarly ten year divorce, But it was so bad, and
I grew up in a very abusive, like dysfunctional, drug
alcoholic you new disorder everything childhood. This was so bad
that like I couldn't imagine surviving and I couldn't imagine
my life being anything but like how bad it was,
(28:27):
it just could you couldn't. It was that golf thing
I told you, Abaud, But like when it was free.
Speaker 2 (28:32):
It was such freedom.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
When it was over, it was like, I mean that
I understand what you're talking about. Like you're just like,
oh my god, I survived this thing. I don't want
to survive anything else, but I kind of could, Like
you survive that thing exactly right.
Speaker 4 (28:46):
It's all that reflection, so like I look, you know,
I got to my cancers in twenty thirteen.
Speaker 3 (28:51):
They removed my thyroid.
Speaker 4 (28:52):
All my emotions were all over the place because your
thyroid regulates everything. And then they removed my thyroid, and
then they I started taking synthetic medication, but later on
I turned out I was totally under medicated, so I
had a depression, brain fog, fatigue, I wasn't myself. And
then I went through the two surgeries of thyroid cancer
and testicular cancer, and I wasn't feeling good. And then
(29:16):
a couple months later I started feeling better. I went
out to golf one day this is in the book,
took a swing, went to pick up my ball. Next
thing I know, my back went out. I was having
the round of my life, the round of my life.
I've never played golf like I did that day, so
I said, I'm gonna keep going, went to the next hole,
took a swing, hit the ground, screaming.
Speaker 2 (29:36):
Oh my god.
Speaker 3 (29:37):
And for the next year and a half of my life,
it was.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
It was worse than cancer, to be honest, because I
was taking you know, ten to twelve delauded or vike
it in a purpose at every single day. If you
watch early seasons of my shows, you'll see me go
from two hundred and forty pounds from cancer to one
hundred and sixty five pounds from the pain pills and
the opiates.
Speaker 2 (29:56):
Didn't you get sick getting off of it?
Speaker 3 (29:59):
You know? Yeah? You know?
Speaker 4 (30:00):
I actually I quit cold Turkey the day that my
back got better. And I didn't know I did okay
when I got off of it. But when I was
on it, like I was, I wasn't. I was not
a good human. Oh my gosh, Like that stuff is toxic.
But the pain I was experiencing from my back was
like nothing I ever experienced in my life. And then
I had the surgery. I came home the night of
(30:23):
the surgery, and then there was complications. My urinary check
was blocked. I thought my bladder was gonna explode. Had
to call the ambulance to go back to the hospital.
So my family, you know, we just went through so
much with two cancers and back surgeries.
Speaker 1 (30:35):
And when you say my family, you mean your ex
and your kids. Are your parents? Like who's your family?
Speaker 3 (30:40):
Everybody? Everybody? Everybody you have a you have.
Speaker 2 (30:43):
A decent spital, that you have a decent support system.
Speaker 4 (30:46):
Absolutely, my my parents are fantastic. They've always been big
supporters of me. My family, family is number one for me.
But during the during those years, like I look back
and I was, I was so gone because I I
had so many different chemicals in my body and and
then I didn't have my hormones, I didn't have my thyroid,
I was on testosterone, I was taking opiates, I was
(31:08):
toughering with anxiety, and it just like I was.
Speaker 3 (31:12):
I was dying inside.
Speaker 1 (31:13):
I mean I was when was this?
Speaker 2 (31:16):
When was the pinnacle of this?
Speaker 3 (31:17):
What Yearah, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2 (31:20):
Okay, so not that long ago?
Speaker 3 (31:22):
Yeah, that was.
Speaker 4 (31:23):
Yes, almost seven years ago now, no, almost eight years
ago now, Wow, and.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
What is right?
Speaker 1 (31:28):
You were like in a cloud and a fog, but
functioning in business because probably in the first thing in
the morning you can get shit done by the end
of the day.
Speaker 4 (31:34):
Yeah, and I and honestly, I've just come home at night,
go up to my office, stare at the wall, and
turmoil and pain for no reason whatsoever. Oh my major,
Like you know, mental health, depression, all these things are real,
you know. And I've I've experienced, you know, a lot
of different things. You know.
Speaker 3 (31:51):
I was actually on bipolar medicine for nine years.
Speaker 2 (31:54):
You have had a lot of crap in your body.
Speaker 1 (31:56):
Is there anything in your body now or you're like
completely clean of stuff.
Speaker 4 (32:00):
I do take ADHD ADHD medicine and that's all I take.
And I started taking that two years ago, and man,
what a vast improvement. So I started taking ADHD medication
for the first time when I was seventeen. So I
got into some trouble when I was seventeen. I ended
up going to juvenile hall for a little bit. And
(32:22):
when I got back, when I got out, they sent
me to the doctor. Turns out at ADHD and they
started me on this medicine and like overnight, my GPA
went from a two point zero to three point eight. Wow,
like overnight, I was calmer. I was eight, But then
like I don't even know, it was so strong. I
was a walking zombie. Like I completely changed my personality.
(32:43):
And then what happened was when I turned eighteen, they
said if I wanted to keep taking my medicine, I
had to go see the doctor because I was an adult. Now,
of course I said no, right, So now, looking back,
that's why.
Speaker 3 (32:53):
I went into that free fall. That's why I gained
sixty pounds.
Speaker 2 (32:56):
That's dangerous.
Speaker 1 (32:57):
That's like going off your bipolar medicine or something like,
you went off your meda and you aren't thinking straight,
so you made your own decisions based on bad judgment.
Speaker 3 (33:03):
Yeah. Yeah, so that's what I did.
Speaker 4 (33:05):
And then I went on that downhill spiral until Justin
came into my life and forced me to go to
the gym. And then two years ago, you know, just
very overwhelmed, and I decided to give it a shot again.
And man, it's been such a game changer for.
Speaker 2 (33:17):
Me, the ADHD medicine. Wow.
Speaker 1 (33:19):
So yeah, there's a mental health situation here. And so
your ex wife, are you friends you co parent. Do
you have a decent relationship now, Christine.
Speaker 4 (33:39):
Yeah, we're actually doing the best we ever have, which
is which is fantastic.
Speaker 3 (33:45):
You know, her and I we communicate regularly. We get along.
Speaker 4 (33:49):
We're extremely friendly. You know, Christine and my wife head
their communicate all the time. They get along great, and
it's and it's been really really good for the last
i'd say, about two two and a half years.
Speaker 1 (34:00):
So you have a good blending, blended situation. And your
ex is remarried too.
Speaker 3 (34:06):
Yeah, yeah, she's she's remarried. Yeah, she's remarried.
Speaker 1 (34:10):
Okay, because I feel like the whole thing has been
public and I've seen it in the periphery, but I
don't know about it.
Speaker 2 (34:15):
Who did she marry? Didn't she marry someone?
Speaker 5 (34:17):
Go on?
Speaker 4 (34:18):
Yeah, so, I mean she got remarried twice. So she
got married to a gentleman named Aunt Ann said, who
I'm friends with him now too, and actually had a
baby with him.
Speaker 2 (34:27):
Okay.
Speaker 3 (34:27):
You know, we talk about difficult.
Speaker 4 (34:29):
You know, she got with aunt shortly, you know, after
we separated and I was still filming with her, and
it was a difficult experience watching someone you love girl
baby right, Wow, So talking about pain.
Speaker 3 (34:40):
Yeah, it was.
Speaker 4 (34:40):
It was tough because I still loved her, right and
I had to show up every day and watch her
belly grow and think.
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Man like holy she's yeah okay.
Speaker 4 (34:49):
But you know, what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.
So unfortunately that marriage didn't work out. And then she
got remarried to a gentleman named Josh Hall and and
today they're married and they're they're filming some together.
Speaker 1 (35:00):
Well, so you got a lot of entertainment in this crew,
and so you get along with him and her. It's
all decent, like pretty good.
Speaker 3 (35:07):
Yeah, we're all totally good.
Speaker 4 (35:08):
You know. Like like I said, if you're always dwelling
on the past and negative experiences and you have hate, rage.
Speaker 3 (35:14):
And it, you're never gonna you're never gonna have a
happy life.
Speaker 1 (35:17):
Right. But you're you're doing all this in the entertainment industry,
which makes it like n in LA, which makes it
like double triple challenging. Like I'm friends with Kyle and
Maurice and I watch them on TV and in Beverly Hills.
With the pressure and the money and the businesses, it's
a swirling layered thing.
Speaker 4 (35:33):
It's a lot, it's a lot. You know, but you
know I have no you know, like I said, it's acceptance.
You know, all the anger and rage blah blah, But
at the end of the day, guess what, did I
have a part in it?
Speaker 5 (35:46):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (35:46):
Do I need to take some responsibility? Yes? So is
it her fault? No, it's our fault.
Speaker 1 (35:50):
Well, she must respect the fact that you say that publicly.
That's really because everyone wants to blame everybody else in that.
Speaker 3 (35:55):
I don't know yet.
Speaker 4 (35:56):
I don't know if she's ever heard me say that
public here. Oh okay, well you know I just started
talking recently. Yeah, you're ready. Yeah, that's nice. That's nice.
It's nice. It's amazing what time can do to your
It is.
Speaker 3 (36:09):
It is. And that's what I tell people. Man.
Speaker 4 (36:10):
Every people waste their entire lives worried and stress and
think about it. The shit we were stressed about when
we were eighteen years old, did any of it matter?
Speaker 1 (36:17):
No?
Speaker 4 (36:18):
The shit we were stressed about when we were twenty
seven did it matter?
Speaker 5 (36:21):
No?
Speaker 3 (36:21):
The shit were stressed about today? Is it going to
matter in ten years? No?
Speaker 1 (36:25):
No? Well, this woman, this woman on TikTok, I have
to get her name back because it's not fair that
I like, I'm living by this, and I don't remember
her name because I recognize that you gave credit to
the person which we'll talk about, who saw that you
had a bulging something bulging in your neck and is
responsible for you finding out you had cancer, and then
you give doctor Drew credit. But I saw this woman
(36:46):
on TikTok and she was saying the amount of time
and bandwidth we spend trying to control what other people
are doing, saying, like, you know, you can only control yourself,
and it was very liberating for me. And sometimes you
see something at the time you need to hear it.
But I thought that is very powerful.
Speaker 4 (37:05):
One hundred percent. You want to know what changed my life,
and it's a very simple thing.
Speaker 3 (37:09):
One word. So I think it was twenty seventeen.
Speaker 4 (37:12):
I was looking at Newport Beach, driving up and down
Newport Boulevard, literally just up and down, up and down, up, down, screaming, crying, cursing,
hitting my like so sad and screaming about how life's
not fair.
Speaker 3 (37:24):
It's not fair, this happened. It's not fair.
Speaker 4 (37:26):
I got cancer. It's not fair. I hurt my back.
It's not fair. She left me, and then it hit me,
Life's not fair. And like in that moment, like this
calm came over me except and started and I said,
life's not fair.
Speaker 3 (37:41):
Like that, shit happens to good people every day.
Speaker 4 (37:44):
There are things happening exponentially worse than what I'm going through,
to people that don't deserve it.
Speaker 3 (37:52):
Life's not fair. So because life's fair, not fair, what
do you do?
Speaker 4 (37:56):
You do the best you can with what you got right,
and the second you acknowledge that you're free, you're free
to go out there and build that new life and
chase those dreams and rebuild yourself.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Well, it's the same thing you're saying about the sleep.
It's allowing for it to be. Okay, you might not
sleep tonight. Okay, you know it's going to die. Like
that happened, this person broke your heart, you were an addict,
you fucked up, it happened, you lost my Like that's
what you're effectively saying. You're saying like it's liberating to
allow for things to be fucked up. It's very liberating
(38:30):
to allow for yourself to get your heart broken or
not sleep. It's like it's allowing for that versus like
trying to hold on to it and have it be
so perfect.
Speaker 3 (38:40):
Exactly. It's acceptance.
Speaker 4 (38:41):
Like like literally, it is impossible to be a highly
successful individual without being in a lawsuit at one point
in your life.
Speaker 2 (38:50):
Right, So what does.
Speaker 4 (38:52):
That mean for anyone who wants to be an entrepreneur?
You better expect that one day you're going to be
in a lawsuit. So when it comes, don't cry to bone,
say okay, it's here.
Speaker 2 (39:01):
Costs a business, Yes, totally.
Speaker 3 (39:03):
Happens to everybody.
Speaker 1 (39:05):
Yesterday I let a designer go that I paid most
of their fee for a house that I'm doing, and
I'm going to give somebody else half what they got
and they're going to do double the work because I
got to finish this thing. And I'm mad that I
paid that person all this money and they shit the bed.
Speaker 2 (39:19):
But we are where we are. It's a cost of
doing business.
Speaker 1 (39:21):
I can't like want to just stay with that person
and fuck up the whole project because I already paid
them chasing it Like that's what you see, you know
what it's like, we did it exactly.
Speaker 4 (39:32):
I'll give you an example. Early on in my career,
a contractor would burn me or a sub would burn me.
I would spend months fighting over fifteen hundred dollars, hundreds
of hours and energy and letters and anger and hate
and rage.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
Today it happened fifteen I said, bye, it happened exactly.
Speaker 2 (39:47):
The money, Yeah, you'll waste more money, keep staying on
the road. Totally.
Speaker 1 (39:52):
Yeah, we we have a lot of things in common,
like with this philosophy. So Heather, Heather is your wife,
she's all on TV with you, and like this is
another entertainment relationship.
Speaker 4 (40:06):
Yeah, and it's funny because it's totally it was totally random.
I randomly met Heather. I didn't know about her show.
It wasn't a setup. Was she was living and I
think Sweden dating a hockey player at the time, well
not at the time, but right before I met her.
So it's fourth of July twenty nineteen. We're at Woody's
Bar in Newport Beach and it's like party and the
(40:27):
fires going and people are dancing and it only fits
like five boats.
Speaker 3 (40:31):
Luckily I got a spot.
Speaker 4 (40:34):
I'm mid conversation and out of the corner of my
mind just seeing this beautiful blonde girl with these braids,
and like mid conversation, I stopped talking. I'd be lying
a right to her, and of course I'm feeling confident
because it's my yacht. Yeah, I put my hand out.
Speaker 3 (40:46):
I go, hi, I'm arch. She goes, oh, I know
who you are.
Speaker 4 (40:49):
And I'm thinking, all right, yeah, all right, this is good, good, good,
Thank God for TV. And then she goes, you asked
me out two years ago, don't you remember?
Speaker 3 (40:58):
So shit?
Speaker 4 (41:00):
I said, where I ask you out? She goes Instagram.
So I said one second. So I put my back
to her, pulled up Instagram.
Speaker 3 (41:05):
Look.
Speaker 4 (41:05):
She responded she had a boyfriend. So I swung back
around and said still about that boyfriend? She said no.
So I was really excited. A couple of cocktails in,
so I said, hey, you want to go to Paris?
Speaker 3 (41:14):
She said no. I said you want to okay? I said, okay,
you want to go to Las Vegas? Want to do
something funch? She goes, I'm not going anywhere overnight with you.
I said, okay, you want to do dinner? She goes maybe.
Speaker 4 (41:23):
So then we start talking and we started getting into
like a good conversation and then this, you know, like wasisted.
Twenty one year old girl comes over and she was
being obnoxious, So Heather got bothered and she left and
she went back to the boat next to me. So
now I'm sitting there sulking because I hadn't seen one
girl in like four years.
Speaker 3 (41:41):
That I was like wow.
Speaker 4 (41:44):
And then I look on the boat next to me
and I see her and this other guy, this like
good looking guy with nice pretty hair and shade.
Speaker 3 (41:50):
They're laughing.
Speaker 4 (41:51):
She's throwing her hair back, and I'm watching, and I'm
watching my future wife be stolen, right, And.
Speaker 3 (41:56):
I said, oh, hell no, I'm not going down like that.
Speaker 4 (41:58):
So I go to the wheelhouse, I find the horn
and I late on that sucker. The whole bar jumped,
like the whole like everybody jumped and they and I
stuck my head out the sunroof and I yelled at
the guy to get off my girl. Luckily, luckily Heather
thought it was funny because they started laughing. So then
I walked out to them. The guy tells me big
(42:18):
fan walks away. I was like, thank.
Speaker 2 (42:21):
God, oh my god.
Speaker 3 (42:23):
And then I got her number.
Speaker 1 (42:25):
There you've got a number like in a goodwill hunting
and that was it. We were together. In the end
is the rest is history.
Speaker 3 (42:31):
She canceled our first date.
Speaker 4 (42:32):
It was two weeks after, she said I'm not ready
blah blah blah, and I just sent her one text message.
Speaker 3 (42:37):
I said, I'm different than you. Think you should give
it a shot.
Speaker 2 (42:41):
Okay.
Speaker 4 (42:42):
So a week later she said she'll give it a shot.
I said, let's do dinner. She said, no, I'll go
for a drink. I don't think she wanted to spend
that much time with me. So I show up. It's
the middle of summer, there's a heat wave, but I
know I look good in this one blue sweater I
wear every Christmas. So, not thinking about the heat wave,
I go to dinner in this blue sweater and the
whole dinner, I'm just sweating. My heart's pounding, I'm having anxiety.
(43:05):
I'm acting like a weirdo. And finally, because you know
I'm an anxious guy to find, she goes, are you okay?
I'm like, no, I am not okay. She goes, let's
just get drunk. I said, I like that. So we
ended up having a couple of drinks, hung out till
like three in the morning, talked the entire way home
on FaceTime.
Speaker 3 (43:22):
Four days later, we moved in together and this is it.
Speaker 1 (43:24):
You've been together. And then you got married and here
we are and it's a great relationship.
Speaker 4 (43:28):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (43:28):
And our son turns a year old in a couple
of days.
Speaker 2 (43:31):
So you have a baby. And how old are your
other kids?
Speaker 3 (43:35):
Taylor is thirteen years old. I can't believe it.
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I have a thirteen year old.
Speaker 4 (43:40):
Oh my gosh, so much fun. I am so obsessed
with my daughter. And you know, we're talking about divorce
right and talking about pain. I never would be the
father I am today if I didn't go through what
I went through.
Speaker 3 (43:51):
I was not connected with my daughter when she was younger.
Speaker 4 (43:53):
I was working all the time, and I felt so
shitty about myself. And what I learned is all I
had do was invest the time.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
It's completely an ROI. What everything you put in you
get out. Like, my daughter had a bad day yesterday.
She's thirteen, and I was texting her, like, you know,
because sometimes you want to problem solve with these kids
instead of just being there for them, so they because
they feel safe if you problem solved, they feel alienated.
And so she came home and I just gave her
like the most gigantic hug and was like, I'm here
for you.
Speaker 2 (44:22):
How can I help?
Speaker 1 (44:23):
Like, how can I help for a thirteen year old
because they want to yell at you and be frustrated. No, Mom,
it's not. I'm like, how can I help you? Whatever
I can do? It really works.
Speaker 3 (44:32):
Yeah, No, I love it. It's investing the time.
Speaker 4 (44:34):
And like today, me and my daughter, like since she
was five years old, you know, we've been like best friends,
you know.
Speaker 3 (44:39):
I mean we're so close.
Speaker 4 (44:41):
And me and my son were so close and it's
the most feeling in the world.
Speaker 3 (44:45):
He's eight years old.
Speaker 1 (44:46):
So you have a thirteen and eight and a one.
You have a beautiful family and the blending is going
well and they accept your story, your past, and like
you're in a good spot right now, perfect time to
launch a book.
Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah, everything is just going so well right now. Personally, Like,
you know, I got what I've always wanted. It was
my family back, you know, like I feel like I
have a family again, which I do have a family.
We're a family of five, we had a dog. It
feels good. You know.
Speaker 3 (45:15):
I didn't like being on my own.
Speaker 4 (45:17):
I was just lost. I was I mean, it was
just it wasn't fun, you know. And and just to
have Heather in my life and in my kids' lives
and to have this family I have, I'm just very blessed.
Speaker 1 (45:29):
So you have a family, you are sleeping, and you
are successful, and you're at peace.
Speaker 2 (45:34):
So it's a good, good, good story.
Speaker 3 (45:36):
All right.
Speaker 1 (45:37):
Well, it was so nice to meet you, so honored
to like hear your story and talk to you, and
I really appreciate it, and I wish you the best
of luck on the book and in life.
Speaker 3 (45:47):
Absolutely, it was a great, great chatting with you.
Speaker 4 (45:48):
I've been a big fan of you for many years
and it's been exciting to watch what you've done.
Speaker 2 (45:52):
I appreciate. Thank you so much.
Speaker 1 (45:53):
Great great story and amazing like happy not ending, but
happy moment in time.
Speaker 3 (45:59):
Oh, just getting started. Wait till the second book.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
Exactly, The next one will be called Life Isn't Fair. Awesome,
Thank you so much.
Speaker 3 (46:06):
After the flip, all right, we'll see you, yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Exactly awesome. Thanks.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
Taric was very very interesting, very open, very raw, very vulnerable.
What a ride, young guy for such a story cancer, addiction, breakup, loss,
halfway house.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
ADHD money.
Speaker 1 (46:33):
I mean, wow, this guy has a story of ten
people's lives.
Host
Bethenny Frankel
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