August 25, 2022 • 53 mins
Actress, comedian, activist, and all-around multi-hyphenate talent Milana Vayntrub joins Katie Lowes for an electric and honest conversation on the birth of her son, the struggles of juggling parenthood with online harassment, and her abortion story.
The "Werewolves Within" star relives her home birth-turned-hospital labor, and reflects on how she's working on prioritizing herself and her marriage since stepping into motherhood. Milana also shares how she came to the decision to have an abortion in a prior pregnancy.
Plus, what is a sitz bath, and how can it help your vagina? Milana breaks it down for you: tune in and try it out yourself!
Executive Producers: Sandie Bailey, Alex Alcheh, Lauren Hohman, Tyler Klang & Gabrielle Collins
Producer & Editor: Casby Bias
Associate Producer: Akiya McKnight
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. Whatever the pain is,
I could do it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Little did I know that my son would be sunny
side up and with every contraction it felt like my
back was breaking. I just felt like this baby was
(00:24):
gonna push out the wrong hole was because I felt
like he was gonna come out my butt. Everybody, Welcome
back to Katie's Crib. I am uh like so so
(00:48):
so fan girling out to this guest today. I think
she's incredible from Afar. I think she's so pretty inside
and out like it's and it's just taken me asking
her to be a guest on Katie's Crib for me
to have ever met her. And I just feel very
lucky that that day is today and you all get
(01:09):
to hear uh the electric chemistry we will be having.
I am talking about the one and only Milana Vine
drew Um. She is an actress, comedian, writer, director, activist.
She's known for eight billion things, I mean for for
people who don't know her well enough and her work
(01:29):
which you should. She's the A T and T television
commercials portraying the saleswoman Lily. She's recurring role in the
NBC drama This Is Us. She voices squirrel Girl in
the Marvel's squirrel Girl The Unbeatable radio show. It's available
now on all podcast platforms. Her other credits include writing
for shows like Adult Swims, Robot Chicken, her Comedy Central
digital series Making Fun with the Kila, and Milana. Her
(01:50):
most recent film Werewolves Within. Also Rebecca Henderson was in that,
and she's been on Katie's Crib, premiered at the Tribeca Festival.
She tours speaks on activism global citizenship at various colleges
and organizations. She gave birth to a baby boy at
the time of this recording a year ago. Milana weine true,
(02:13):
Welcome to Katie's Crib. Vine Troupe, am I saying that correctly, Sure,
I don't care. I actually don't even know, But how
do you? I was walking with my husband before and
he was like, it's like trouble, like trub, like vine trump,
(02:34):
and then we listen to you say it and you
were like, no, it's Vine trube, which I don't know.
Leave me alone. This is already the hardest podcast I've
ever been on No, I genuinely I think because wine
true means wine grapes in German, and then that was
translated into Russian, and then that Russian was translated into English.
(02:57):
And so we're saying a word that shouldn't be set out.
It's not a thing, so right, just if you could
just mumble through whatever two syllables come out, I will
accept it. Okay, Okay, Milana, Oh that was very sexy.
You have just celebrated a one year old. One year
(03:21):
is such a milestone and such a awesome time to
reflect and just share where you're at. Katie, I'm like
already a little of a climpse, because motherhood is so
all encompassing, Um, even when you have help, nobody could
(03:44):
have warned me for and and it feels so obvious
to say now, and it maybe even feels obvious to
people who are listening who aren't parents. But no one
could have warned me for what having a child does
to your time. Him Like, there just is no there
is no time. Yeah, there is no time, and there's
(04:08):
no way um to prepare. I mean we're talking and
I'm looking down the barrel at an almost five year
old and it's such a mind fuck. I mean, I
find myself on my phone before bed looking at him
as a one year old and a two year old,
and I like, it's thank god I have those photos
(04:30):
because I don't. It's such a practice in being present
that do you even remember really well? Do you remember? Well,
I've read about your labor, and I know it was
beautifully traumatic in some ways, really really intense. Um, but
do you remember the early days? You know, it's a blur.
I actually just got like one of these like notebooks
(04:53):
were you you know, you journal about every step, and
I got it at a year, which is like, what's
the point I already give up? But like, um, you know,
at this point he started rolling over, and at this
point he started sitting up, and you know, at this
point he was curious about avocado. Like I, it's it's
(05:13):
very blurry. I think the things that I remember are
things that were like part of training in terms of
not not sleep training, but just like the advice that
other parents gave me, like at four months, move him
into another room, and so I have that ingrained in
my head. But in terms of like the organic growth
of him, it's all very blurry. In fact, I have
(05:34):
a friend who was like, Hey, my best friend just
had a baby. What should I send her? And I
was like, uh shit, I remember adult diapers? Um, I
remember these ice packs that I thought I would need
a lot of but actually ended up not using that many. Up,
I think every vagina heels differently. UM, tell her to
do a six bath. Do the shirts bath? I like,
(05:59):
if act, when I go over a new mom's house,
that's what I do. I'm like, I know you think
you don't have time for this, but sit put soak
your vagina in this t for a little bit. Wait.
I never ever fucking did this. I tried, and I
was super confused. Can you take the listeners through? Someone
(06:21):
dropped me off a bucket, like a bucket that was
shaped like where your ass would fit. I tried to
fill it with lukewarm water and like this lovely satchel
of fucking roses or some ship that I was supposed
to sit my funked up vagina on, and I couldn't.
I don't know if it's the way my ass is built,
but I felt like my vagina wasn't like hitting the water.
(06:45):
What was I doing? Was I doing something wrong? Can
you explain the sits bath. I actually think this is
very valuable if this is what you go over to
new mom's houses and this is your gem. This has
not yet been shared on Katie's crib, and I think
someone okay, okay, well, for fust of all, I think
it's fair to say that it is your ass is fault.
Um No, I think uh true, true. I think you
(07:12):
probably just didn't put enough water in it. So the
thing that I had is like an insert you put
over your toilet, so if it's spills, it just spills
into your toilet. But it's a t that has all
sorts of healing herbs in it. I'm not I actually
have no idea what it is camrameal maybe dandelion, no idea. Um,
(07:33):
but you buy it pre you can buy it pre made. Yes, yes,
it was one of the things that came in like
a like a postpartum pack. So um you make you
put this little it's like a little bed pan that
you put over your toilet and you fill it with
like basically as warm water as you can handle um
(07:54):
without burning your vagina, and you put this tea bag
in it and you just sit and sometimes it makes
you pee. And if you pee, then you pee, and
you forgive yourself. But sitting in warm water and feeling
um clean, it was a big deal for me. I
felt so like gross and dirty and muggy down there
(08:19):
and and you know, doing like the layers of pads
and diapers and just like not really having time to shower,
but not ever feeling clean. One of the best piece
of advice that my midwife gave me was just like,
put down a chuck's pad and go lay outside and
(08:39):
just bleed on the chuck's pad and just be without
a tampon or I mean not a tampon, a pad
or a diaper for a while. Pad. Yeah, because you sit.
You can get pretty fucked up from sitting and just liquids,
Like you're just there's so much liquid involved, you know,
there's so much liquid involved, you're basically like it's a
very juicy time neotic. Yeah, all this amniotic fluid is
(09:02):
coming out for for some people weeks and weeks and
weeks at a time, and bleeding for weeks and weeks
and weeks at a time. So you can get pretty
frustrated just sitting in that in a pad, in a diaper. Yeah,
it's gross. So you're like, this sits bath for you.
Made you feel like you were sort of starting at zero,
Like great, let's just like clean this all up, sit
(09:24):
outside on a Chuck's pad and feel free. Yes, so
I needed to go and just warm and clean and
be nice to this incredible body part that just did
so much work, has gone through so much trauma. Let's
just go and be a little nice to her. And honestly,
(09:48):
for me, it was it was really hard for me
to take ten minutes for myself. And it still is.
It's still is so hard. And it's a conversation. I mean,
I'm going off topic now, but Hi, Katie, this is
just us hanging out. I'm excited. My husband and I
were just having a conversation yesterday about like he was like,
(10:09):
you have to tell me what your needs are, and
I'm like, first of all, I don't know how to
do that. Secondly, I don't know what they are. You know,
maybe since my son's birth, but probably like epo genetically,
for generations, the women in my family have been martyrs
for motherhood and they have always put themselves after their
(10:32):
children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews and so um.
Since my son was born, I was like, I don't matter,
and that's fine, until now, you know, my son is
a year and I'm like, oh wait, I really got
to matter a little bit because I'm holding a lot
of ship together. Were you the first woman in your
(10:56):
you know, close line, your mother, your grandmother that does
have help? Like is your mom stay at home mom?
Was your grandmother stay at home mom? Like? Was there?
What did they put their children so far ahead that
they also didn't work or did they have did they
have to work? I come from working people, my um. Ever,
everyone worked, um, but the work always felt like it
(11:17):
was for the family. And it's true. I do believe
that they really worked for us and my dad too, um,
but it was at the cost of themselves, and not
that they ever let it show. Really. I mean, I
think my you know, my mom probably worked herself to
(11:38):
the bone in terms of sacrificing her own mental health
for sure. UM. But you know the times that we
did have help, and this is true for me now,
was so that they could go work. Right. So that's
really what's coming into your identity shift of like, Okay,
if I do have this nanny for five hours, than
(12:00):
it means I better be fucking working my ass off
that I'm not currently mothering him, and I'm not currently
you know, filling my mother's shoes. So it's not like
I should take that five hours and do something what
some people my nap selfish or self care, oh god,
I know, or go to like go just fucking drink
at lunch with a friend or whatever, like yeah, like
(12:22):
you would. I know, it's a real I have to say.
I can't. I don't know if it gets better. I'm
sitting here again, like I think a five year old is. Maybe,
you know, I feel like I'm coming on this sort
of milestone in a way, and I don't know if
I'm I don't know if that's gotten any better. I mean,
(12:43):
I've definitely paid for nanny's to watch my children while
I've taken a nap. That's definitely happened, and I've definitely
felt bad about it. So that's definitely also how happened. Um,
did you always want to be a mom? I did.
I think we were a little where you maternal. Were
you like I it was never a question that you
were going to do this. I felt like I love
(13:08):
my future children. I remember saying that in high school, like,
I love my future children, um, but also it's hard
for me to separate how much of that is conditioning
because it was never really an option. It was like
growing up, it's like, and when you have children, this
is what you're going to do. And so I never
I don't know that I was ever able to imagine
my life without it. But when my husband and I
(13:29):
first started dating, we were living in New York and
had really full, crazy lives, and we had the conversation
you know, or we would hang out with people who
have kids and see how hard it is, and we're like,
are we going to opt into that? Like let's let's
let's think about this consciously. And then we got married
(13:50):
and on our wedding night we were like, do you
want to just see if our parts work together? And
then nine months how beautiful? Oh my god, I was
so beautiful. And then nine months and one day later
my son was born. Book the fuck out of here.
(14:13):
Not did I did not see that coming. I have
goose bumps all over my body. That's insane and incredible. This. Um,
(14:35):
I love that you've made this so public, but you
do you have an opinion piece for the Daily Beast
that is about how you were pregnant once before and
opted to have an abortion. Now, can you talk to
me through how you knew? Like what I love so
(14:55):
much about the article and for people listening read it,
it's really a wonderful It's of one you did, such
a beauty. It's a great, great piece. But I love
about it is that you knew in your body that
that was the choice you had to make. And what
I love about hearing the story about making your son
is you knew that that was the choice you had
(15:17):
that you wanted to make. How did you know you
were ready for something like that? How did you know
so through and through? And I asked, because I'm really
bad at making decisions. Well, I mean, you know it's
right when you don't have to second guess it, at
least for me. Um, And that's not you know, there
are a lot of things that I'm second guessing all
the time and asking for too many people's opinions on.
(15:39):
But when it came to having an abortion, it felt
like a no brainer. I was not in a place
to have a child. I was not in a relationship
with a person that was going to be my forever person.
I was working at a smoothie shop. Um that didn't
(15:59):
allow us to receive tips, which I think should be illegal. Um.
I was just barely, barely, barely holding on. And I
didn't ever feel like the thing I was pregnant with
was my kid. I didn't ever feel like I'm going
to go aboard a child. I felt like, there is
(16:23):
this thing I am impregnated with. I mean, I'm not
like I felt like I was sick with something that
I have to go clean cure myself of. Um, there
is a medical procedure that is very common that will
cure me of this thing that is uncomfortable and scary
(16:44):
and not here at the right time. So I went
to I just went to my kind of coologist, and
I was lucky enough to have health insurance at the time,
and I just underwent this very big, sick medical procedure
and I was fine afterwards and it didn't eat me up.
(17:06):
And I honestly, the only time I ever even think
about it is when I think about all of the
people who want an abortion and cannot have one. That's
when I think back to myself at twenty two years old,
being like, oh fuck, what if I was forced two
(17:27):
grow and birth and raise a person that I was
not able to care for. All of the sacrifices that
that would have been to my personal life and all
of the ways that that would have affected this little
being's upbringing, who was who would be entirely under resourced,
entirely under served in every way, And then I get
(17:52):
to make a choice about having my son, and it's
it was just it was a hell. Yeah. I mean
we were we were so excited. We were We hugged
and kissed and called everyone before we should call people,
you know, they tell you to wait, and I didn't,
and I was just stoked. I also think I have
(18:12):
some thoughts on this, like how women should wait until
they tell people that they're pregnant. Oh yeah, talk to
me about that. Sure. I think it just stigmatizes miscarriage
and it makes people feel like it's something they should
deal with on their own. And I mean, you know,
you don't have to make like an Instagram announcement, but
(18:33):
you can. You could definitely tell the people close to you,
because those are the people who are there to support
you through good times and bad. Yeah. I I had
a miscarriage before my son, and I was so and
it was like eleven and a half weeks, and I
remember it was really helpful actually that I had told
(18:57):
the people I told. I told the people that it
I would have told had it not worked out, if
that makes sense, you know what I mean, Like my
best friends, my parents, my grandmother, like people who I
called afterwards and was like, I'm no longer pregnant. I'm
so sad. Um. And I do think keeping it just
(19:19):
to yourself is really really hard. Um. And I wouldn't
recommend that either. I couldn't. Oh no way, yeah, I
I don't think. So you got pregnant right on your
freaking wedding night, you take a pregnancy test. You were
just stoked, so excited, calling all of your family members
(19:40):
like I'm pregnant. Were you afraid? Were you scared? Were you?
I mean, we definitely had a what the fuckness happened?
Of like is this real? Are we really going to do?
Because like you're like I didn't even work for like
that's that's huge. Some people are usually like, okay, I didn't,
like I was spa when I got my period and
(20:01):
we started trying. But I also was like it was
kind of cool to like try for a while and
not to want it. Holy sh it, this worked. Yeah.
I know. I was looking forward to trying for a
little bit. Um. Yeah, I was looking forward to, you know,
being married for a little bit. But we were also like,
(20:22):
you know, this person is coming into our lives and
it's meant to be for whatever reason. So I felt
very lucky and grateful um and scared um yeah, and
and and honestly, just the world was a scary place.
This was, um. I found out in September and nobody
(20:47):
was vaccinated yet that didn't exist. I was like receiving
death threats from trolls online. Um for what, oh my god,
for existing, for being a woman, for becoming a meme.
I'm not really sure what happened, but all of a
sudden I started getting the attention of just a lot
(21:08):
of gross men. And you know, it was just I
just felt so unsafe in the world for a variety
of reasons. Um. And so for that to happen at
a time where I was also feeling those things, UM,
I just really wanted to keep everything private. You know,
(21:28):
there's this shift that happens that every person that carries
a child feels, where all of a sudden, your body
is not yours, not just yours. Your body is now
your family, and I felt like I needed to protect
my family in ways that I never felt like I
(21:49):
needed to protect just myself. I felt pretty comfortable putting
myself on the front lines of trolledom and activision and
just just just soaking in every kind of cortisol stress hormone.
I could whatever, I can take it. But when it
(22:12):
was about this little thing, I was like, well, there's
no reason for them to take it. There's no reason
for you know, they didn't ask to be an activist
and they didn't ask to be fight fighting a fight.
Yet let them make that choice. So I kind of, um,
(22:32):
I kind of went underground a little bit. Yeah, I
did too. With my second I can remember making the
choice of like when I was pregnant with Vera, and
it was like Los Angeles was on fire, and um,
it was Black Lives Matter, and it was I mean,
it still is, but it was just so George Floyd
(22:55):
had just been murdered and everyone was taking to the
streets and I had such fight and anger and and
my body and I would drive, but I would make
Adam drive me by protests and marches and things like that,
but I wouldn't get out of the car because I
was It was really we didn't know about COVID a
lot then, and we didn't know how it affected pregnancy.
(23:18):
We didn't know how it affected babies. And I felt
like that too, like I had to kind of hide
and it wasn't about me anymore. It was about how
am I going to keep us safe from things we
don't know? Um, how was your pregnancy? It was pretty textbook. Um,
I had a very nauseous first trimester. I was just
(23:39):
working a lot. It was to be working and pregnant
during a pandemic. Well, I mean I'm sure you were
working through your pregnancies as well, right, not the pandemic pregnancy,
but my first pregnancy. I worked the whole time. And
I can't even believe you just said working pandemic pregnancy
all in one fucking sense. I cannot imagine that while
(24:02):
being like nauseous, like the first trimester where you're just like,
and I have the flu, but it could be COVID,
but I have to be working and please God, let
everything or please whoever let this fucking like, let everything
be okay? Like this is Did you have anxiety? Were
you trying to stay really chill. Did you have, um,
what were your what was your support? Like, I just
(24:24):
like kicked into boss mode. I have a husband who
is the best, most supportive, most kind, most hands on.
I just I'm so so lucky. And um, he came
to set with me almost every time, and he likes
(24:46):
he's a working person too, that doesn't work in this
industry at all. And he would bring his giant fucking
computer into my dressing room and work in there and
then come to set and bring me crackers and little
peppermin oil to sniff and put on my nausea bracelets
for me and then go back to my dressing room
and take a meeting. And um, oh my god, I
(25:08):
love this guy. I love this human being. Oh my god.
So so you had a lot of support. You were nauseous,
and then did you get the second try mmr stride
where you were like, I have the most energy I've
ever had in my life. Yes, absolutely, Um, but also
I gained so much weight and and honestly, one of
(25:28):
my one of my friends was like, Hey, your whole
job right now is just get fat and be happy.
And I was like, I can do that. I took
it very seriously, so you know, I was not one
of those like jazzer size moms. I ate whatever I wanted,
and I worked really hard at work. There's something very
cruel about watching yourself become like gained so much weight
(25:54):
so fast on camera. Um as somebody who you know
who works in an industry that is so vain, and
I am so vain in that way that I'm not
proud of. But that was that was kind of hard.
And then also because I was dealing with so much, um,
crazy people showing up to addresses and all sorts of things,
(26:17):
I was keeping my pregnancy private and it was just
a gross, a gross time in terms of like my
relationship to my body and the internet and like and
the perception of of the gaze of the world. But
then also internally, the flip side of that, Katie, is
that like, um, in terms of like my I r
(26:40):
L world, my in real life world, it was fucking amazing,
Like I love the people I work with. My A
d is a mother of two. Um my producer is
a father of two. Um. I was directing and acting,
which is one of my favorite ways to be acting,
(27:01):
and I want oh my god, I felt like I
was like working really hard. I was building my nest
so that then I could chill the funk out when
my baby got here. Which is not true. Actually I
didn't end up chilling the funk out for very long
at all. But I did you take a maternity leave?
Did you take a maternity leave? I had like three
(27:21):
and a half months, which is not enough time. I
think also illegal. That should be illegal, Lee, go a year?
You should everyone should have a year. Yeah. My sister
in law works at a company where they have one
year paid maternity leave. Um, they also have one year
(27:41):
paid paternity leave and it's nest most loveliest and because
of that, she will she is so loyal to this
company and she works her fucking ass off because she
will never it will never be lost on her that
she got to be with her baby and sort of
(28:01):
go through the transition into motherhood. And really, I mean
when you were speaking earlier, when we were talking, I
didn't feel like myself. Like I remember looking in the
mirror when my son was eighteen months old, so around
a year and a half, and I remember looking in
the mirror being like, oh, I think I see me
(28:22):
in there a little bit like and it took that long.
Um and I'm just in a year and a half
now with my daughter, and it's starting to like I
feel a little bit again. I think for me it
has to do with um breastfeeding too, but um, where
are you at do breastfeed? I think if I could
(28:43):
still be nursing, I would still be nursing. I UM,
around ten months got just so busy with work and
I was no longer on um my sets. I was
on other people's sets, and I couldn't keep up the
(29:05):
pumping schedule and um and and my body wasn't receiving
the hormone feedbacks that it needed to keep producing milk.
You know, I just wasn't seeing I wasn't able to
actually feed my kid enough. UM. So that's when we
switched to formula. But also luckily at that time, he
(29:25):
was eating so much. The kid like loves like sardines
and sour kraut and like he's just an old Jewish man.
He's a kid after my own heart. I love it. Yeah. Yeah,
So I'm like, I'm not worried about him getting is
like iron and you know, he's he's good. So I
felt okay about stopping for him. But also learning to
(29:49):
breastfeed was the hardest thing I've ever done. I he
didn't latch until he was three weeks old, and you know,
every day that your kid it isn't latching feels like
a crisis every day where you're like, I can't figure
out how to feed this kid and he's crying and
(30:09):
he needs this thing. Is is a catastrophe, you know.
I remember talking to like lactation consultants on like a
Monday and They're like, I can see you on Thursday,
and I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I can
make it? Four days like this, like I can't make it.
I cannot make it. We're not going to make it.
We're not gonna make it. You're not going to make it.
You have to come over today, Yeah, today, right now,
(30:32):
fucking day? Yeah yeah yeah. How did the latch finally
work itself out? Um? I found an incredible lactation consultant
who came over every day, and she's a saint. Every
woman that I dealt with I could cry now just
thinking about it. But every woman that I dealt with
(30:52):
in my pregnancy, delivery, postpartum process deserves a metal Like
my midwife was incredible. My dula was like stepped in
like I can't even imagine Carson Meyer. Um, I delivered
(31:16):
at this tiny I was planning a home birth. It
didn't go that way. I ended up going to this
tiny hospital that had two delivery rooms. Wait, can you
tell me more about this? Why did you always know
you wanted a home birth? Was the home birth decision
COVID based? Did you want that? Like? What what made
the change when you had to go to the hospital?
Tell me all of this? Um, it was it was
(31:38):
a little COVID based. Yeah. Um. But also my son
was born in May and it was like it was
like this point of levity. Ultimately in like the cycle,
I was vaccinated my you know, my husband or doctor.
So it all felt like we were like maybe starting
to take our masks off around each other. But before that, yes,
(31:58):
it was a little bit COVID based. And it was
also I watched the business of being born and I
was very scared by that. The hospital experience I had
was nothing like that. It was a beautiful hospital experience,
and I wish my hospital experience on every birthing person.
But um, honestly the biggest thing for me is that
(32:19):
I wanted to move around. I did not like this
idea of being attached to tubes and monitors and not
being able to move or squats or walk. Um, that
felt the most natural to me. And I also, I'm like,
I could do the pain. Whatever the pain is, I
(32:39):
could do it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Little did I know? Little did I know that my
son would be sunny side up, which means that he
was facing forward, which means that his head and spine
(33:00):
was pushing against my spine. And with every contraction it
felt like my back was breaking and my I I
as a joke. I knew this was funny when I
was doing it, but I meant it where with every
contraction I would yell my bottole like I was. I
(33:21):
just felt like this baby was gonna push out the
wrong hole. I was like, he was gonna come out
my butt. Um. And I did it for days. I
was in I had contractions for days. UM. I started
having contractions on a Sunday night. Um. On Tuesday, I
(33:42):
saw my midwife and I was like, are these bracts
and hikes? Are these contractions? And then I had one
in front of her and she's like, oh honey, those
are contractions and UM. And then that night I didn't
sleep and I, you know, we did the thing. We
had a toub blown up in our bedroom. UM. And
then the next a you know, did all the curb walking,
did everything I could to make this baby come, and
(34:04):
he did not. UM. And then so after the second
sleepless nights of having contractions, UM, this was like, you know,
two am in the bathtub and I'm having peyton like
I've never thought possible. I UM. I called my midwife
and she very lovingly was like, you know, I don't
(34:31):
think that anyone should have to have back labor without medication,
and if you wanted to go to the hospital, that
would be okay. And I needed that permission for some reason.
I needed to take the pressure off myself. And so
like at three am and I pack we pack up
(34:54):
the stuff and we get in the car and I
am in the best mood. I am so grateful that
these days of contractions are coming to an end, that
we're about to meet our baby. We drive to the hospital,
I cannot sit down. They make me sit in a
wheelchair to get to the room and I'm like, no, no no, no,
I'll walk. I literally can't sit. This baby's in my butt.
I cannot sit and they're like, you have to. You
(35:17):
have to The insurance company says you have to sit.
So anyway, we go to the hospital and they were
just like, well, you're not dilated enough, so why don't
we just give you some some pain medication so you
can sleep. I don't remember what it was called, but
it was just so you could sleep tonight and we'll
talk about it in the morning. So this was not
an epidural. You didn't like get right you didn't pull
(35:39):
right in, and they didn't give you an epidural right away. No,
I wasn't my my body wasn't ready for that yet.
And they were like I was like, oh, yeah, well,
if you're gonna maybe to this hospital, what if I
want to like leave And they're like that's fine. There's
a really good burrito shop down the street. You can
go get a burrito. You know. They were just like
the nice They're like, you don't have to make any
decisions right now. We're not crushing into anything. I think
(36:01):
you should just sleep tonight. And I was like hell yeah.
So I slept for the first time in like, you know,
two and a half days and it was great. And
then the next morning, um, we started doing a zide attech,
which is like a pill, yeah, to open up your cervix.
(36:22):
Try to do that. That worked a little bit, and
then they started the induction. And the one downside of
delivering at a small hospital is that there wasn't a
m and a psiologist to do the epidural, so I
had to wait a long ass time for that doctor
to get there. And then another fun twist is that
my epid you just I would have been screaming my
(36:45):
fucking ass off, like at what, Yeah, I did six hours?
I think with my son, just like I made it
to like yeah, no, but I did six hours. No, no,
but you're the coue. I could never like after six hours,
I made it to like six and a half centimeters
until I was like I am fucking sobbing between every
(37:11):
single one of these. Like and I my goal with
my Duela was I just want to have a really fun,
good memory of this. That's such a good goal to
look back and be like I don't care what happens,
but I just want to look back and be like,
you know, I think also because I had this podcast,
(37:32):
is like that was like, so I knew things could
get pretty fucking traumatic. It was just like I just
wanna enjoy it, Like I really really want to enjoy it,
and I really want to be there for it. And
I got to the point where I was just hysterical
and I just was like, I fucking hate this. I
hate this, this sucks, I hate it. I'm not having
(37:55):
a good time. This blows, and I really want to
be excited to meet him. Can we fucking fix this? Yeah,
that's when I um called for the epidural, which I
got both times. But um, I I asked for the epidural,
but it wouldn't stick for some reason. Oh yes, I
read this. Some people the epidural. It's crazy, but some
(38:16):
people in an epidural doesn't work. Some people they miss
the artery or whatever. The funking They're trying a million
times and it doesn't take. So you've felt everything. Um,
I had like three hours of an epidural maybe, and
so I just used that to sleep. But it wasn't
until so my contraction started on Sunday night. The following
(38:37):
Saturday morning, I'm like, call the president of the hospital.
Some someone's getting fired. This is unethical. This is not
how it should work. And they're like, sorry, this is
just what natural birth is. A fucking full week basically
a week, yeah, like five and a half days basically.
Um that they call this the moment of the transition
(38:58):
where you're like, I can't take any more her. And
in that moment, my water broke and the nurse was like,
you're ready to push. And then I pushed for two
hours and I loved pushing. Actually, I mean I hated
the ring of fire, but I loved finally having progress.
I loved the support team around me. Um. My midwife
(39:19):
told me about a couple that had that she had
worked with where the man sat on the toilet and
the woman sat on his lap and so so that
the midwife had room to catch the baby, you know,
the baby would fall into the toilet. And I was like, oh,
I love the she being cuddled, was being cuddled while
she's giving birth, and so in that moment, I was
(39:41):
you know, I ended up pushing in mostly a squat
and then a little bit on my back, and so
when I transitioned to my back, my midwife remembered that
I said this, and she had my husband Clymb behind
me and He basically spooned me while I pushed. It
was it was like a little bit um handmaids tails
now in red respect looking back at the photos, Yeah,
(40:02):
I know that position. I know that position, but it's beautiful.
But it's beautiful. We did not have handmaid's tail mentality
around that. No. I feel very supported. He was supporting
your back. He was giving you like a big He
was the big spoon. You were the little spoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and it was. I was just so grateful. I was
(40:22):
so grateful he was born. I wanted I wanted that
to be over. But you know, I will say I
don't look back on it as a traumatic memory. For
some reason. I think I'm just like now, in the
leagues of women who have done this or not. I'm
in the leagues of people who have done this incredible thing,
(40:42):
and I'm honored to have had that rite of passage.
How was the when you met him? Did you have
a lot of tearing? Did? Uh? What did the ring
(41:03):
of fire feel like? I have not felt these things? Oh?
The ring of fire was yeah. It was like your
your vagina is ripping um. And there was a moment
where I was like, oh, this is the worst part,
and but in retrospect it wasn't. It was just it
was stinging. It was a stinging pain, which compared to
feeling like your back is breaking is five. It wasn't great,
(41:27):
But the tearing was was I think, very average. And
I got like a couple of stitches and it was
you know, it's crazy to know be like pretty much
back to normal. Like in my terms of my vagina,
that is wild. No, the vagina is the fucking coolest, coolest,
(41:50):
wildest thing of all time. I didn't videotape our son
being born, but my second I actually asked my Duela
to videotape her birth and she videotaped it, and I
actually watch it and I can't believe what my vagina
or vaginas do and how they go back together, and
(42:13):
then how you have sex and you actually enjoy it,
Like what the fuck? It's incredible. And even for people
who don't have vaginal births, people who have c sections,
I mean, you're still walking around holding up pounds and
pounds of weight on your uterus, on your vagina, on
your bulb, on all of this and all and that
(42:34):
the fact that your body does what it does and
then comes back to the I think about the women
in the olden days who like didn't even have like stitches.
I mean, their ship just like went back together right
with like scark t issue. I don't even know. Yeah,
I mean two things. The women who or or the
people that have had um uh C sections. I think
(42:59):
about how amazing their bodies are to heal because the
things that their muscles have to go through, that the
that the baby was taken out and their body rehabilitates
in some way miracle miracle. But the friends that I've
talked to that are older, that have had children before
(43:20):
there were epidurals or before there was really just like
a consciousness around birth, which I think is honestly from
a lot of the stories I hear still very much
forming in terms of like the medical industry catching up
to the actual needs and the very spiritual process of birth. Um.
I have a friend who's in her seventies and her
(43:44):
story is nothing but traumatic. My mother's story is nothing
but traumatic. My mother delivered in the Soviet Union with
seven other women in the room who were also in
labor or giving birth. She did not have her own room,
she didn't have any medicine, my didn't know she was
having twins. She delivered one and then she had another.
Oh my god, and my husband's my husband's grandmother was like, oh,
(44:08):
they just knocked me out and I woke up and
they handed me my child. I'm like, I mean, she
just skipped labor and birth altogether. Like it was just
like you're just put under and they like, your body
just does it while you're like asleep and you don't
know what the funks gone on or what's happened to you.
Fucked up, fucked us. We've come a long way and
(44:28):
we have a long way to go. How is your
postpartum journey? How were the first six weeks um survival mode?
I am I couldn't have done it without the help
of my mom and my mother in law and my
sister in law. And then like every person who dropped
off like a salmon, I'm going to shout out, Mikaela
(44:52):
Watkins and Fred Kramer are our friends and neighbors who
dropped off, um salmon. Thank you for that salmon. You'll
never forget amn't. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it.
I remember working with Helen Hunt and she introduced me
to a woman and she was like, this woman dropped
off lasagna when my son was born. And I was like, noted,
make a lasagna like one of my friend Sam Shelton
(45:14):
dropped off like a chicken that had apricots cooked and olives,
like cooked olives and apricots, and she just dropped it
off in like an old school, fucking nineteen fifties pan
with toil. And she was like, just put it in
the oven at three fifty and dinner will be served
within twenty minutes. And I was like, this is the
fucking coolest, nicest thing ever. Like that's the ship you remember, Okay,
(45:39):
So survival and tell me as we're wrapping up, what
have you learned in this first year? That's a big question. Sorry,
as we're wrapping up quick, we have thirty seconds. Um,
I want to be with you like all my long.
I'm like, tell me, like, what is this past year?
(46:00):
Like you just celebrated a first birthday. Yeah, there are
chambers in my heart that have opened that I did
not know where possible, Like my capacity for love for
this thing that like kind of maybe loves me back
slash just depends on me for sustenance. The fact that
I could love something that much is is nuts. Um.
(46:24):
I think one of the things that I'm now just learning,
like maybe this week, is how to prioritize my marriage
in terms of like the advice that I've gotten, Nobody
ever really talked about that that like your marriage could
(46:44):
really quickly go to ship if you don't prioritize it
with a child, because there's so much task managing. There's
so much get this, wash this, hold this, feed this,
that there's not a lot of like how are you feeling?
And um, and can we just like go to sleep
(47:07):
early and hold each other. It's so much logistics, and
especially if you are considering ever having more than one,
it's so many logistics of pickups and drop offs and
food and shelter and clothing and the basics and get
more milk and and not not to say like prioritize
your marriage over your baby, but like that's what I'm
(47:29):
figuring out right now, is that I got to take
care of this thing because also, you know, this guy
in my house is going to leave in seventeen years
plus or minus and and I will still be with
my husband. And in fact, when I think about what
I want at the very end of my life. Like
what my actual goals of goals is, it's to be
(47:53):
old and happy with my husband. I was just thinking
of five hours you have with the nanny, go to
a lot, go to a what do you guys like
to do? Like go on that walk, go on that?
Just just goddamn Adam and I. Sometimes this is real
insider ship. But yes, sometimes Adam and I literally go
(48:16):
on hotel. We love hotels and so and we love
hotel sex. So we'll be like we'll go on hotels
tonight or whatever, hotel tonight dot com room. Yes, yes,
we don't go for the night. We go for the afternoon.
We do a sex, a nap, a shower, and then
we go home. That is like I roll up there
(48:37):
at four o'clock and we we only get the nanny
from like four to ten, you know what I mean.
She does like the bedtime, and then we go home
and sleep in our own We don't even sleep in
the hotel that we paid for. But you get a
sealed you know, it'll be like two hundred dollars or whatever.
And I know that seems like a lot, but it's
(48:58):
like and we do that in like Malibu, or Santa
Monica or somewhere that's like close. Um, although don't I
don't know what if you come across any gems anyone listening,
if you've got any gems on how to prioritize your marriage,
because you are right, what a crazy ride we're on
that if we do a great, fulfilled, loving, purposeful job
(49:21):
raising our children, they will leave us. That means we
will have done you know what I mean, Like you're
gonna love something so much for them to fly and
to go away, and to live on their own and
not listen, like follow their own direction and and and
be their own person and things like that, and then
(49:43):
we're just there with our people that were also very
lucky to have and it's like, I, yeah, how do
you take care of that? I don't know, it's really
but I have heard from a lot of people who
have older kids teenagers that the first five years with
the ones is the hardest, That it is epically epically
(50:06):
hard for the relationship. UM. Because exhaustion is a huge
part of it, Identity shifting is a huge part of it, UM,
but also just little kids are are really they need
you a lot, and we're going to get to a
place where our children are in school for a lot
(50:26):
of the hours of the day and then they're going
to have whatever activities they are or into, you know.
Like so I think we're also kind of in it
right now. M M. Feels like, just make it through
this part. But this is all very important because Adam
and I are coming up on our ten year wedding anniversary,
where he was like, we're just gonna be coming home.
(50:48):
Let's celebrate that we've been together sixteen years, but it's
our ten year wedding anniversary. And he's like, let's just
celebrate it later in the summer, and I was like, ab,
it's a fucking lootly not. I want to be with
you alone for our the weekend of our tenth wedding anniversary.
(51:09):
I want it on the fucking magical day that I
swore my life to you. Yes, because it matters, It
means something to me. Yeah, there's nothing matter, not a
matter of convenience. It is no exactly. That's how I feel. Um.
(51:30):
In closing, parenthood is dot dot dot. Parent is fucking awesome.
It is It's everything. It's it's all the ups and downs.
But I know myself and love myself in ways there
(51:52):
that means so much to me and I I think
my kid is so cool. I'm in too. As hard
as it is, I'm into it. Well. If he's as
cool as his mommy, if he's his mommy, Um, I
cannot thank you enough for taking so much time. And
(52:16):
I think you're the coolest mom ever. And if you
are down, I would love to have you on like
next year for his two year birthday and we could talk. Yeah,
we'll do a circle back and we'll see how you're doing.
How it's going. Sounds good. Thank you so much, very cool,
(52:38):
You're very smart, You're very pretty. Honestly, I've been a
fan since I mean forever. Thank you guys so much
for listening to today's episode. I want to hear from you.
Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. Let me know. You can
always find me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
(53:04):
Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda Land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
Welcome to Katie's Crib, a production of Shonda land Audio
in partnership with I Heart Radio. Whatever the pain is,
I could do it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Little did I know that my son would be sunny
side up and with every contraction it felt like my
back was breaking. I just felt like this baby was
(00:24):
gonna push out the wrong hole was because I felt
like he was gonna come out my butt. Everybody, Welcome
back to Katie's Crib. I am uh like so so
(00:48):
so fan girling out to this guest today. I think
she's incredible from Afar. I think she's so pretty inside
and out like it's and it's just taken me asking
her to be a guest on Katie's Crib for me
to have ever met her. And I just feel very
lucky that that day is today and you all get
(01:09):
to hear uh the electric chemistry we will be having.
I am talking about the one and only Milana Vine
drew Um. She is an actress, comedian, writer, director, activist.
She's known for eight billion things, I mean for for
people who don't know her well enough and her work
(01:29):
which you should. She's the A T and T television
commercials portraying the saleswoman Lily. She's recurring role in the
NBC drama This Is Us. She voices squirrel Girl in
the Marvel's squirrel Girl The Unbeatable radio show. It's available
now on all podcast platforms. Her other credits include writing
for shows like Adult Swims, Robot Chicken, her Comedy Central
digital series Making Fun with the Kila, and Milana. Her
(01:50):
most recent film Werewolves Within. Also Rebecca Henderson was in that,
and she's been on Katie's Crib, premiered at the Tribeca Festival.
She tours speaks on activism global citizenship at various colleges
and organizations. She gave birth to a baby boy at
the time of this recording a year ago. Milana weine true,
(02:13):
Welcome to Katie's Crib. Vine Troupe, am I saying that correctly, Sure,
I don't care. I actually don't even know, But how
do you? I was walking with my husband before and
he was like, it's like trouble, like trub, like vine trump,
(02:34):
and then we listen to you say it and you
were like, no, it's Vine trube, which I don't know.
Leave me alone. This is already the hardest podcast I've
ever been on No, I genuinely I think because wine
true means wine grapes in German, and then that was
translated into Russian, and then that Russian was translated into English.
(02:57):
And so we're saying a word that shouldn't be set out.
It's not a thing, so right, just if you could
just mumble through whatever two syllables come out, I will
accept it. Okay, Okay, Milana, Oh that was very sexy.
You have just celebrated a one year old. One year
(03:21):
is such a milestone and such a awesome time to
reflect and just share where you're at. Katie, I'm like
already a little of a climpse, because motherhood is so
all encompassing, Um, even when you have help, nobody could
(03:44):
have warned me for and and it feels so obvious
to say now, and it maybe even feels obvious to
people who are listening who aren't parents. But no one
could have warned me for what having a child does
to your time. Him Like, there just is no there
is no time. Yeah, there is no time, and there's
(04:08):
no way um to prepare. I mean we're talking and
I'm looking down the barrel at an almost five year
old and it's such a mind fuck. I mean, I
find myself on my phone before bed looking at him
as a one year old and a two year old,
and I like, it's thank god I have those photos
(04:30):
because I don't. It's such a practice in being present
that do you even remember really well? Do you remember? Well,
I've read about your labor, and I know it was
beautifully traumatic in some ways, really really intense. Um, but
do you remember the early days? You know, it's a blur.
I actually just got like one of these like notebooks
(04:53):
were you you know, you journal about every step, and
I got it at a year, which is like, what's
the point I already give up? But like, um, you know,
at this point he started rolling over, and at this
point he started sitting up, and you know, at this
point he was curious about avocado. Like I, it's it's
(05:13):
very blurry. I think the things that I remember are
things that were like part of training in terms of
not not sleep training, but just like the advice that
other parents gave me, like at four months, move him
into another room, and so I have that ingrained in
my head. But in terms of like the organic growth
of him, it's all very blurry. In fact, I have
(05:34):
a friend who was like, Hey, my best friend just
had a baby. What should I send her? And I
was like, uh shit, I remember adult diapers? Um, I
remember these ice packs that I thought I would need
a lot of but actually ended up not using that many. Up,
I think every vagina heels differently. UM, tell her to
do a six bath. Do the shirts bath? I like,
(05:59):
if act, when I go over a new mom's house,
that's what I do. I'm like, I know you think
you don't have time for this, but sit put soak
your vagina in this t for a little bit. Wait.
I never ever fucking did this. I tried, and I
was super confused. Can you take the listeners through? Someone
(06:21):
dropped me off a bucket, like a bucket that was
shaped like where your ass would fit. I tried to
fill it with lukewarm water and like this lovely satchel
of fucking roses or some ship that I was supposed
to sit my funked up vagina on, and I couldn't.
I don't know if it's the way my ass is built,
but I felt like my vagina wasn't like hitting the water.
(06:45):
What was I doing? Was I doing something wrong? Can
you explain the sits bath. I actually think this is
very valuable if this is what you go over to
new mom's houses and this is your gem. This has
not yet been shared on Katie's crib, and I think
someone okay, okay, well, for fust of all, I think
it's fair to say that it is your ass is fault.
Um No, I think uh true, true. I think you
(07:12):
probably just didn't put enough water in it. So the
thing that I had is like an insert you put
over your toilet, so if it's spills, it just spills
into your toilet. But it's a t that has all
sorts of healing herbs in it. I'm not I actually
have no idea what it is camrameal maybe dandelion, no idea. Um,
(07:33):
but you buy it pre you can buy it pre made. Yes, yes,
it was one of the things that came in like
a like a postpartum pack. So um you make you
put this little it's like a little bed pan that
you put over your toilet and you fill it with
like basically as warm water as you can handle um
(07:54):
without burning your vagina, and you put this tea bag
in it and you just sit and sometimes it makes
you pee. And if you pee, then you pee, and
you forgive yourself. But sitting in warm water and feeling
um clean, it was a big deal for me. I
felt so like gross and dirty and muggy down there
(08:19):
and and you know, doing like the layers of pads
and diapers and just like not really having time to shower,
but not ever feeling clean. One of the best piece
of advice that my midwife gave me was just like,
put down a chuck's pad and go lay outside and
(08:39):
just bleed on the chuck's pad and just be without
a tampon or I mean not a tampon, a pad
or a diaper for a while. Pad. Yeah, because you sit.
You can get pretty fucked up from sitting and just liquids,
Like you're just there's so much liquid involved, you know,
there's so much liquid involved, you're basically like it's a
very juicy time neotic. Yeah, all this amniotic fluid is
(09:02):
coming out for for some people weeks and weeks and
weeks at a time, and bleeding for weeks and weeks
and weeks at a time. So you can get pretty
frustrated just sitting in that in a pad, in a diaper. Yeah,
it's gross. So you're like, this sits bath for you.
Made you feel like you were sort of starting at zero,
Like great, let's just like clean this all up, sit
(09:24):
outside on a Chuck's pad and feel free. Yes, so
I needed to go and just warm and clean and
be nice to this incredible body part that just did
so much work, has gone through so much trauma. Let's
just go and be a little nice to her. And honestly,
(09:48):
for me, it was it was really hard for me
to take ten minutes for myself. And it still is.
It's still is so hard. And it's a conversation. I mean,
I'm going off topic now, but Hi, Katie, this is
just us hanging out. I'm excited. My husband and I
were just having a conversation yesterday about like he was like,
(10:09):
you have to tell me what your needs are, and
I'm like, first of all, I don't know how to
do that. Secondly, I don't know what they are. You know,
maybe since my son's birth, but probably like epo genetically,
for generations, the women in my family have been martyrs
for motherhood and they have always put themselves after their
(10:32):
children and grandchildren and nieces and nephews and so um.
Since my son was born, I was like, I don't matter,
and that's fine, until now, you know, my son is
a year and I'm like, oh wait, I really got
to matter a little bit because I'm holding a lot
of ship together. Were you the first woman in your
(10:56):
you know, close line, your mother, your grandmother that does
have help? Like is your mom stay at home mom?
Was your grandmother stay at home mom? Like? Was there?
What did they put their children so far ahead that
they also didn't work or did they have did they
have to work? I come from working people, my um. Ever,
everyone worked, um, but the work always felt like it
(11:17):
was for the family. And it's true. I do believe
that they really worked for us and my dad too, um,
but it was at the cost of themselves, and not
that they ever let it show. Really. I mean, I
think my you know, my mom probably worked herself to
(11:38):
the bone in terms of sacrificing her own mental health
for sure. UM. But you know the times that we
did have help, and this is true for me now,
was so that they could go work. Right. So that's
really what's coming into your identity shift of like, Okay,
if I do have this nanny for five hours, than
(12:00):
it means I better be fucking working my ass off
that I'm not currently mothering him, and I'm not currently
you know, filling my mother's shoes. So it's not like
I should take that five hours and do something what
some people my nap selfish or self care, oh god,
I know, or go to like go just fucking drink
at lunch with a friend or whatever, like yeah, like
(12:22):
you would. I know, it's a real I have to say.
I can't. I don't know if it gets better. I'm
sitting here again, like I think a five year old is. Maybe,
you know, I feel like I'm coming on this sort
of milestone in a way, and I don't know if
I'm I don't know if that's gotten any better. I mean,
(12:43):
I've definitely paid for nanny's to watch my children while
I've taken a nap. That's definitely happened, and I've definitely
felt bad about it. So that's definitely also how happened. Um,
did you always want to be a mom? I did.
I think we were a little where you maternal. Were
you like I it was never a question that you
were going to do this. I felt like I love
(13:08):
my future children. I remember saying that in high school, like,
I love my future children, um, but also it's hard
for me to separate how much of that is conditioning
because it was never really an option. It was like
growing up, it's like, and when you have children, this
is what you're going to do. And so I never
I don't know that I was ever able to imagine
my life without it. But when my husband and I
(13:29):
first started dating, we were living in New York and
had really full, crazy lives, and we had the conversation
you know, or we would hang out with people who
have kids and see how hard it is, and we're like,
are we going to opt into that? Like let's let's
let's think about this consciously. And then we got married
(13:50):
and on our wedding night we were like, do you
want to just see if our parts work together? And
then nine months how beautiful? Oh my god, I was
so beautiful. And then nine months and one day later
my son was born. Book the fuck out of here.
(14:13):
Not did I did not see that coming. I have
goose bumps all over my body. That's insane and incredible. This. Um,
(14:35):
I love that you've made this so public, but you
do you have an opinion piece for the Daily Beast
that is about how you were pregnant once before and
opted to have an abortion. Now, can you talk to
me through how you knew? Like what I love so
(14:55):
much about the article and for people listening read it,
it's really a wonderful It's of one you did, such
a beauty. It's a great, great piece. But I love
about it is that you knew in your body that
that was the choice you had to make. And what
I love about hearing the story about making your son
is you knew that that was the choice you had
(15:17):
that you wanted to make. How did you know you
were ready for something like that? How did you know
so through and through? And I asked, because I'm really
bad at making decisions. Well, I mean, you know it's
right when you don't have to second guess it, at
least for me. Um, And that's not you know, there
are a lot of things that I'm second guessing all
the time and asking for too many people's opinions on.
(15:39):
But when it came to having an abortion, it felt
like a no brainer. I was not in a place
to have a child. I was not in a relationship
with a person that was going to be my forever person.
I was working at a smoothie shop. Um that didn't
(15:59):
allow us to receive tips, which I think should be illegal. Um.
I was just barely, barely, barely holding on. And I
didn't ever feel like the thing I was pregnant with
was my kid. I didn't ever feel like I'm going
to go aboard a child. I felt like, there is
(16:23):
this thing I am impregnated with. I mean, I'm not
like I felt like I was sick with something that
I have to go clean cure myself of. Um, there
is a medical procedure that is very common that will
cure me of this thing that is uncomfortable and scary
(16:44):
and not here at the right time. So I went
to I just went to my kind of coologist, and
I was lucky enough to have health insurance at the time,
and I just underwent this very big, sick medical procedure
and I was fine afterwards and it didn't eat me up.
(17:06):
And I honestly, the only time I ever even think
about it is when I think about all of the
people who want an abortion and cannot have one. That's
when I think back to myself at twenty two years old,
being like, oh fuck, what if I was forced two
(17:27):
grow and birth and raise a person that I was
not able to care for. All of the sacrifices that
that would have been to my personal life and all
of the ways that that would have affected this little
being's upbringing, who was who would be entirely under resourced,
entirely under served in every way, And then I get
(17:52):
to make a choice about having my son, and it's
it was just it was a hell. Yeah. I mean
we were we were so excited. We were We hugged
and kissed and called everyone before we should call people,
you know, they tell you to wait, and I didn't,
and I was just stoked. I also think I have
(18:12):
some thoughts on this, like how women should wait until
they tell people that they're pregnant. Oh yeah, talk to
me about that. Sure. I think it just stigmatizes miscarriage
and it makes people feel like it's something they should
deal with on their own. And I mean, you know,
you don't have to make like an Instagram announcement, but
(18:33):
you can. You could definitely tell the people close to you,
because those are the people who are there to support
you through good times and bad. Yeah. I I had
a miscarriage before my son, and I was so and
it was like eleven and a half weeks, and I
remember it was really helpful actually that I had told
(18:57):
the people I told. I told the people that it
I would have told had it not worked out, if
that makes sense, you know what I mean, Like my
best friends, my parents, my grandmother, like people who I
called afterwards and was like, I'm no longer pregnant. I'm
so sad. Um. And I do think keeping it just
(19:19):
to yourself is really really hard. Um. And I wouldn't
recommend that either. I couldn't. Oh no way, yeah, I
I don't think. So you got pregnant right on your
freaking wedding night, you take a pregnancy test. You were
just stoked, so excited, calling all of your family members
(19:40):
like I'm pregnant. Were you afraid? Were you scared? Were you?
I mean, we definitely had a what the fuckness happened?
Of like is this real? Are we really going to do?
Because like you're like I didn't even work for like
that's that's huge. Some people are usually like, okay, I didn't,
like I was spa when I got my period and
(20:01):
we started trying. But I also was like it was
kind of cool to like try for a while and
not to want it. Holy sh it, this worked. Yeah.
I know. I was looking forward to trying for a
little bit. Um. Yeah, I was looking forward to, you know,
being married for a little bit. But we were also like,
(20:22):
you know, this person is coming into our lives and
it's meant to be for whatever reason. So I felt
very lucky and grateful um and scared um yeah, and
and and honestly, just the world was a scary place.
This was, um. I found out in September and nobody
(20:47):
was vaccinated yet that didn't exist. I was like receiving
death threats from trolls online. Um for what, oh my god,
for existing, for being a woman, for becoming a meme.
I'm not really sure what happened, but all of a
sudden I started getting the attention of just a lot
(21:08):
of gross men. And you know, it was just I
just felt so unsafe in the world for a variety
of reasons. Um. And so for that to happen at
a time where I was also feeling those things, UM,
I just really wanted to keep everything private. You know,
(21:28):
there's this shift that happens that every person that carries
a child feels, where all of a sudden, your body
is not yours, not just yours. Your body is now
your family, and I felt like I needed to protect
my family in ways that I never felt like I
(21:49):
needed to protect just myself. I felt pretty comfortable putting
myself on the front lines of trolledom and activision and
just just just soaking in every kind of cortisol stress hormone.
I could whatever, I can take it. But when it
(22:12):
was about this little thing, I was like, well, there's
no reason for them to take it. There's no reason
for you know, they didn't ask to be an activist
and they didn't ask to be fight fighting a fight.
Yet let them make that choice. So I kind of, um,
(22:32):
I kind of went underground a little bit. Yeah, I
did too. With my second I can remember making the
choice of like when I was pregnant with Vera, and
it was like Los Angeles was on fire, and um,
it was Black Lives Matter, and it was I mean,
it still is, but it was just so George Floyd
(22:55):
had just been murdered and everyone was taking to the
streets and I had such fight and anger and and
my body and I would drive, but I would make
Adam drive me by protests and marches and things like that,
but I wouldn't get out of the car because I
was It was really we didn't know about COVID a
lot then, and we didn't know how it affected pregnancy.
(23:18):
We didn't know how it affected babies. And I felt
like that too, like I had to kind of hide
and it wasn't about me anymore. It was about how
am I going to keep us safe from things we
don't know? Um, how was your pregnancy? It was pretty textbook. Um,
I had a very nauseous first trimester. I was just
(23:39):
working a lot. It was to be working and pregnant
during a pandemic. Well, I mean I'm sure you were
working through your pregnancies as well, right, not the pandemic pregnancy,
but my first pregnancy. I worked the whole time. And
I can't even believe you just said working pandemic pregnancy
all in one fucking sense. I cannot imagine that while
(24:02):
being like nauseous, like the first trimester where you're just like,
and I have the flu, but it could be COVID,
but I have to be working and please God, let
everything or please whoever let this fucking like, let everything
be okay? Like this is Did you have anxiety? Were
you trying to stay really chill. Did you have, um,
what were your what was your support? Like, I just
(24:24):
like kicked into boss mode. I have a husband who
is the best, most supportive, most kind, most hands on.
I just I'm so so lucky. And um, he came
to set with me almost every time, and he likes
(24:46):
he's a working person too, that doesn't work in this
industry at all. And he would bring his giant fucking
computer into my dressing room and work in there and
then come to set and bring me crackers and little
peppermin oil to sniff and put on my nausea bracelets
for me and then go back to my dressing room
and take a meeting. And um, oh my god, I
(25:08):
love this guy. I love this human being. Oh my god.
So so you had a lot of support. You were nauseous,
and then did you get the second try mmr stride
where you were like, I have the most energy I've
ever had in my life. Yes, absolutely, Um, but also
I gained so much weight and and honestly, one of
(25:28):
my one of my friends was like, Hey, your whole
job right now is just get fat and be happy.
And I was like, I can do that. I took
it very seriously, so you know, I was not one
of those like jazzer size moms. I ate whatever I wanted,
and I worked really hard at work. There's something very
cruel about watching yourself become like gained so much weight
(25:54):
so fast on camera. Um as somebody who you know
who works in an industry that is so vain, and
I am so vain in that way that I'm not
proud of. But that was that was kind of hard.
And then also because I was dealing with so much, um,
crazy people showing up to addresses and all sorts of things,
(26:17):
I was keeping my pregnancy private and it was just
a gross, a gross time in terms of like my
relationship to my body and the internet and like and
the perception of of the gaze of the world. But
then also internally, the flip side of that, Katie, is
that like, um, in terms of like my I r
(26:40):
L world, my in real life world, it was fucking amazing,
Like I love the people I work with. My A
d is a mother of two. Um my producer is
a father of two. Um. I was directing and acting,
which is one of my favorite ways to be acting,
(27:01):
and I want oh my god, I felt like I
was like working really hard. I was building my nest
so that then I could chill the funk out when
my baby got here. Which is not true. Actually I
didn't end up chilling the funk out for very long
at all. But I did you take a maternity leave?
Did you take a maternity leave? I had like three
(27:21):
and a half months, which is not enough time. I
think also illegal. That should be illegal, Lee, go a year?
You should everyone should have a year. Yeah. My sister
in law works at a company where they have one
year paid maternity leave. Um, they also have one year
(27:41):
paid paternity leave and it's nest most loveliest and because
of that, she will she is so loyal to this
company and she works her fucking ass off because she
will never it will never be lost on her that
she got to be with her baby and sort of
(28:01):
go through the transition into motherhood. And really, I mean
when you were speaking earlier, when we were talking, I
didn't feel like myself. Like I remember looking in the
mirror when my son was eighteen months old, so around
a year and a half, and I remember looking in
the mirror being like, oh, I think I see me
(28:22):
in there a little bit like and it took that long.
Um and I'm just in a year and a half
now with my daughter, and it's starting to like I
feel a little bit again. I think for me it
has to do with um breastfeeding too, but um, where
are you at do breastfeed? I think if I could
(28:43):
still be nursing, I would still be nursing. I UM,
around ten months got just so busy with work and
I was no longer on um my sets. I was
on other people's sets, and I couldn't keep up the
(29:05):
pumping schedule and um and and my body wasn't receiving
the hormone feedbacks that it needed to keep producing milk.
You know, I just wasn't seeing I wasn't able to
actually feed my kid enough. UM. So that's when we
switched to formula. But also luckily at that time, he
(29:25):
was eating so much. The kid like loves like sardines
and sour kraut and like he's just an old Jewish man.
He's a kid after my own heart. I love it. Yeah. Yeah,
So I'm like, I'm not worried about him getting is
like iron and you know, he's he's good. So I
felt okay about stopping for him. But also learning to
(29:49):
breastfeed was the hardest thing I've ever done. I he
didn't latch until he was three weeks old, and you know,
every day that your kid it isn't latching feels like
a crisis every day where you're like, I can't figure
out how to feed this kid and he's crying and
(30:09):
he needs this thing. Is is a catastrophe, you know.
I remember talking to like lactation consultants on like a
Monday and They're like, I can see you on Thursday,
and I'm like, are you fucking kidding me? I can
make it? Four days like this, like I can't make it.
I cannot make it. We're not going to make it.
We're not gonna make it. You're not going to make it.
You have to come over today, Yeah, today, right now,
(30:32):
fucking day? Yeah yeah yeah. How did the latch finally
work itself out? Um? I found an incredible lactation consultant
who came over every day, and she's a saint. Every
woman that I dealt with I could cry now just
thinking about it. But every woman that I dealt with
(30:52):
in my pregnancy, delivery, postpartum process deserves a metal Like
my midwife was incredible. My dula was like stepped in
like I can't even imagine Carson Meyer. Um, I delivered
(31:16):
at this tiny I was planning a home birth. It
didn't go that way. I ended up going to this
tiny hospital that had two delivery rooms. Wait, can you
tell me more about this? Why did you always know
you wanted a home birth? Was the home birth decision
COVID based? Did you want that? Like? What what made
the change when you had to go to the hospital?
Tell me all of this? Um, it was it was
(31:38):
a little COVID based. Yeah. Um. But also my son
was born in May and it was like it was
like this point of levity. Ultimately in like the cycle,
I was vaccinated my you know, my husband or doctor.
So it all felt like we were like maybe starting
to take our masks off around each other. But before that, yes,
(31:58):
it was a little bit COVID based. And it was
also I watched the business of being born and I
was very scared by that. The hospital experience I had
was nothing like that. It was a beautiful hospital experience,
and I wish my hospital experience on every birthing person.
But um, honestly the biggest thing for me is that
(32:19):
I wanted to move around. I did not like this
idea of being attached to tubes and monitors and not
being able to move or squats or walk. Um, that
felt the most natural to me. And I also, I'm like,
I could do the pain. Whatever the pain is, I
(32:39):
could do it. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha.
Little did I know? Little did I know that my
son would be sunny side up, which means that he
was facing forward, which means that his head and spine
(33:00):
was pushing against my spine. And with every contraction it
felt like my back was breaking and my I I
as a joke. I knew this was funny when I
was doing it, but I meant it where with every
contraction I would yell my bottole like I was. I
(33:21):
just felt like this baby was gonna push out the
wrong hole. I was like, he was gonna come out
my butt. Um. And I did it for days. I
was in I had contractions for days. UM. I started
having contractions on a Sunday night. Um. On Tuesday, I
(33:42):
saw my midwife and I was like, are these bracts
and hikes? Are these contractions? And then I had one
in front of her and she's like, oh honey, those
are contractions and UM. And then that night I didn't
sleep and I, you know, we did the thing. We
had a toub blown up in our bedroom. UM. And
then the next a you know, did all the curb walking,
did everything I could to make this baby come, and
(34:04):
he did not. UM. And then so after the second
sleepless nights of having contractions, UM, this was like, you know,
two am in the bathtub and I'm having peyton like
I've never thought possible. I UM. I called my midwife
and she very lovingly was like, you know, I don't
(34:31):
think that anyone should have to have back labor without medication,
and if you wanted to go to the hospital, that
would be okay. And I needed that permission for some reason.
I needed to take the pressure off myself. And so
like at three am and I pack we pack up
(34:54):
the stuff and we get in the car and I
am in the best mood. I am so grateful that
these days of contractions are coming to an end, that
we're about to meet our baby. We drive to the hospital,
I cannot sit down. They make me sit in a
wheelchair to get to the room and I'm like, no, no no, no,
I'll walk. I literally can't sit. This baby's in my butt.
I cannot sit and they're like, you have to. You
(35:17):
have to The insurance company says you have to sit.
So anyway, we go to the hospital and they were
just like, well, you're not dilated enough, so why don't
we just give you some some pain medication so you
can sleep. I don't remember what it was called, but
it was just so you could sleep tonight and we'll
talk about it in the morning. So this was not
an epidural. You didn't like get right you didn't pull
(35:39):
right in, and they didn't give you an epidural right away. No,
I wasn't my my body wasn't ready for that yet.
And they were like I was like, oh, yeah, well,
if you're gonna maybe to this hospital, what if I
want to like leave And they're like that's fine. There's
a really good burrito shop down the street. You can
go get a burrito. You know. They were just like
the nice They're like, you don't have to make any
decisions right now. We're not crushing into anything. I think
(36:01):
you should just sleep tonight. And I was like hell yeah.
So I slept for the first time in like, you know,
two and a half days and it was great. And
then the next morning, um, we started doing a zide attech,
which is like a pill, yeah, to open up your cervix.
(36:22):
Try to do that. That worked a little bit, and
then they started the induction. And the one downside of
delivering at a small hospital is that there wasn't a
m and a psiologist to do the epidural, so I
had to wait a long ass time for that doctor
to get there. And then another fun twist is that
my epid you just I would have been screaming my
(36:45):
fucking ass off, like at what, Yeah, I did six hours?
I think with my son, just like I made it
to like yeah, no, but I did six hours. No, no,
but you're the coue. I could never like after six hours,
I made it to like six and a half centimeters
until I was like I am fucking sobbing between every
(37:11):
single one of these. Like and I my goal with
my Duela was I just want to have a really fun,
good memory of this. That's such a good goal to
look back and be like I don't care what happens,
but I just want to look back and be like,
you know, I think also because I had this podcast,
(37:32):
is like that was like, so I knew things could
get pretty fucking traumatic. It was just like I just
wanna enjoy it, Like I really really want to enjoy it,
and I really want to be there for it. And
I got to the point where I was just hysterical
and I just was like, I fucking hate this. I
hate this, this sucks, I hate it. I'm not having
(37:55):
a good time. This blows, and I really want to
be excited to meet him. Can we fucking fix this? Yeah,
that's when I um called for the epidural, which I
got both times. But um, I I asked for the epidural,
but it wouldn't stick for some reason. Oh yes, I
read this. Some people the epidural. It's crazy, but some
(38:16):
people in an epidural doesn't work. Some people they miss
the artery or whatever. The funking They're trying a million
times and it doesn't take. So you've felt everything. Um,
I had like three hours of an epidural maybe, and
so I just used that to sleep. But it wasn't
until so my contraction started on Sunday night. The following
(38:37):
Saturday morning, I'm like, call the president of the hospital.
Some someone's getting fired. This is unethical. This is not
how it should work. And they're like, sorry, this is
just what natural birth is. A fucking full week basically
a week, yeah, like five and a half days basically.
Um that they call this the moment of the transition
(38:58):
where you're like, I can't take any more her. And
in that moment, my water broke and the nurse was like,
you're ready to push. And then I pushed for two
hours and I loved pushing. Actually, I mean I hated
the ring of fire, but I loved finally having progress.
I loved the support team around me. Um. My midwife
(39:19):
told me about a couple that had that she had
worked with where the man sat on the toilet and
the woman sat on his lap and so so that
the midwife had room to catch the baby, you know,
the baby would fall into the toilet. And I was like, oh,
I love the she being cuddled, was being cuddled while
she's giving birth, and so in that moment, I was
(39:41):
you know, I ended up pushing in mostly a squat
and then a little bit on my back, and so
when I transitioned to my back, my midwife remembered that
I said this, and she had my husband Clymb behind
me and He basically spooned me while I pushed. It
was it was like a little bit um handmaids tails
now in red respect looking back at the photos, Yeah,
(40:02):
I know that position. I know that position, but it's beautiful.
But it's beautiful. We did not have handmaid's tail mentality
around that. No. I feel very supported. He was supporting
your back. He was giving you like a big He
was the big spoon. You were the little spoon. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
and it was. I was just so grateful. I was
(40:22):
so grateful he was born. I wanted I wanted that
to be over. But you know, I will say I
don't look back on it as a traumatic memory. For
some reason. I think I'm just like now, in the
leagues of women who have done this or not. I'm
in the leagues of people who have done this incredible thing,
(40:42):
and I'm honored to have had that rite of passage.
How was the when you met him? Did you have
a lot of tearing? Did? Uh? What did the ring
(41:03):
of fire feel like? I have not felt these things? Oh?
The ring of fire was yeah. It was like your
your vagina is ripping um. And there was a moment
where I was like, oh, this is the worst part,
and but in retrospect it wasn't. It was just it
was stinging. It was a stinging pain, which compared to
feeling like your back is breaking is five. It wasn't great,
(41:27):
But the tearing was was I think, very average. And
I got like a couple of stitches and it was
you know, it's crazy to know be like pretty much
back to normal. Like in my terms of my vagina,
that is wild. No, the vagina is the fucking coolest, coolest,
(41:50):
wildest thing of all time. I didn't videotape our son
being born, but my second I actually asked my Duela
to videotape her birth and she videotaped it, and I
actually watch it and I can't believe what my vagina
or vaginas do and how they go back together, and
(42:13):
then how you have sex and you actually enjoy it,
Like what the fuck? It's incredible. And even for people
who don't have vaginal births, people who have c sections,
I mean, you're still walking around holding up pounds and
pounds of weight on your uterus, on your vagina, on
your bulb, on all of this and all and that
(42:34):
the fact that your body does what it does and
then comes back to the I think about the women
in the olden days who like didn't even have like stitches.
I mean, their ship just like went back together right
with like scark t issue. I don't even know. Yeah,
I mean two things. The women who or or the
people that have had um uh C sections. I think
(42:59):
about how amazing their bodies are to heal because the
things that their muscles have to go through, that the
that the baby was taken out and their body rehabilitates
in some way miracle miracle. But the friends that I've
talked to that are older, that have had children before
(43:20):
there were epidurals or before there was really just like
a consciousness around birth, which I think is honestly from
a lot of the stories I hear still very much
forming in terms of like the medical industry catching up
to the actual needs and the very spiritual process of birth. Um.
I have a friend who's in her seventies and her
(43:44):
story is nothing but traumatic. My mother's story is nothing
but traumatic. My mother delivered in the Soviet Union with
seven other women in the room who were also in
labor or giving birth. She did not have her own room,
she didn't have any medicine, my didn't know she was
having twins. She delivered one and then she had another.
Oh my god, and my husband's my husband's grandmother was like, oh,
(44:08):
they just knocked me out and I woke up and
they handed me my child. I'm like, I mean, she
just skipped labor and birth altogether. Like it was just
like you're just put under and they like, your body
just does it while you're like asleep and you don't
know what the funks gone on or what's happened to you.
Fucked up, fucked us. We've come a long way and
(44:28):
we have a long way to go. How is your
postpartum journey? How were the first six weeks um survival mode?
I am I couldn't have done it without the help
of my mom and my mother in law and my
sister in law. And then like every person who dropped
off like a salmon, I'm going to shout out, Mikaela
(44:52):
Watkins and Fred Kramer are our friends and neighbors who
dropped off, um salmon. Thank you for that salmon. You'll
never forget amn't. I'll never forget it. I'll never forget it.
I remember working with Helen Hunt and she introduced me
to a woman and she was like, this woman dropped
off lasagna when my son was born. And I was like, noted,
make a lasagna like one of my friend Sam Shelton
(45:14):
dropped off like a chicken that had apricots cooked and olives,
like cooked olives and apricots, and she just dropped it
off in like an old school, fucking nineteen fifties pan
with toil. And she was like, just put it in
the oven at three fifty and dinner will be served
within twenty minutes. And I was like, this is the
fucking coolest, nicest thing ever. Like that's the ship you remember, Okay,
(45:39):
So survival and tell me as we're wrapping up, what
have you learned in this first year? That's a big question. Sorry,
as we're wrapping up quick, we have thirty seconds. Um,
I want to be with you like all my long.
I'm like, tell me, like, what is this past year?
(46:00):
Like you just celebrated a first birthday. Yeah, there are
chambers in my heart that have opened that I did
not know where possible, Like my capacity for love for
this thing that like kind of maybe loves me back
slash just depends on me for sustenance. The fact that
I could love something that much is is nuts. Um.
(46:24):
I think one of the things that I'm now just learning,
like maybe this week, is how to prioritize my marriage
in terms of like the advice that I've gotten, Nobody
ever really talked about that that like your marriage could
(46:44):
really quickly go to ship if you don't prioritize it
with a child, because there's so much task managing. There's
so much get this, wash this, hold this, feed this,
that there's not a lot of like how are you feeling?
And um, and can we just like go to sleep
(47:07):
early and hold each other. It's so much logistics, and
especially if you are considering ever having more than one,
it's so many logistics of pickups and drop offs and
food and shelter and clothing and the basics and get
more milk and and not not to say like prioritize
your marriage over your baby, but like that's what I'm
(47:29):
figuring out right now, is that I got to take
care of this thing because also, you know, this guy
in my house is going to leave in seventeen years
plus or minus and and I will still be with
my husband. And in fact, when I think about what
I want at the very end of my life. Like
what my actual goals of goals is, it's to be
(47:53):
old and happy with my husband. I was just thinking
of five hours you have with the nanny, go to
a lot, go to a what do you guys like
to do? Like go on that walk, go on that?
Just just goddamn Adam and I. Sometimes this is real
insider ship. But yes, sometimes Adam and I literally go
(48:16):
on hotel. We love hotels and so and we love
hotel sex. So we'll be like we'll go on hotels
tonight or whatever, hotel tonight dot com room. Yes, yes,
we don't go for the night. We go for the afternoon.
We do a sex, a nap, a shower, and then
we go home. That is like I roll up there
(48:37):
at four o'clock and we we only get the nanny
from like four to ten, you know what I mean.
She does like the bedtime, and then we go home
and sleep in our own We don't even sleep in
the hotel that we paid for. But you get a
sealed you know, it'll be like two hundred dollars or whatever.
And I know that seems like a lot, but it's
(48:58):
like and we do that in like Malibu, or Santa
Monica or somewhere that's like close. Um, although don't I
don't know what if you come across any gems anyone listening,
if you've got any gems on how to prioritize your marriage,
because you are right, what a crazy ride we're on
that if we do a great, fulfilled, loving, purposeful job
(49:21):
raising our children, they will leave us. That means we
will have done you know what I mean, Like you're
gonna love something so much for them to fly and
to go away, and to live on their own and
not listen, like follow their own direction and and and
be their own person and things like that, and then
(49:43):
we're just there with our people that were also very
lucky to have and it's like, I, yeah, how do
you take care of that? I don't know, it's really
but I have heard from a lot of people who
have older kids teenagers that the first five years with
the ones is the hardest, That it is epically epically
(50:06):
hard for the relationship. UM. Because exhaustion is a huge
part of it, Identity shifting is a huge part of it, UM,
but also just little kids are are really they need
you a lot, and we're going to get to a
place where our children are in school for a lot
(50:26):
of the hours of the day and then they're going
to have whatever activities they are or into, you know.
Like so I think we're also kind of in it
right now. M M. Feels like, just make it through
this part. But this is all very important because Adam
and I are coming up on our ten year wedding anniversary,
where he was like, we're just gonna be coming home.
(50:48):
Let's celebrate that we've been together sixteen years, but it's
our ten year wedding anniversary. And he's like, let's just
celebrate it later in the summer, and I was like, ab,
it's a fucking lootly not. I want to be with
you alone for our the weekend of our tenth wedding anniversary.
(51:09):
I want it on the fucking magical day that I
swore my life to you. Yes, because it matters, It
means something to me. Yeah, there's nothing matter, not a
matter of convenience. It is no exactly. That's how I feel. Um.
(51:30):
In closing, parenthood is dot dot dot. Parent is fucking awesome.
It is It's everything. It's it's all the ups and downs.
But I know myself and love myself in ways there
(51:52):
that means so much to me and I I think
my kid is so cool. I'm in too. As hard
as it is, I'm into it. Well. If he's as
cool as his mommy, if he's his mommy, Um, I
cannot thank you enough for taking so much time. And
(52:16):
I think you're the coolest mom ever. And if you
are down, I would love to have you on like
next year for his two year birthday and we could talk. Yeah,
we'll do a circle back and we'll see how you're doing.
How it's going. Sounds good. Thank you so much, very cool,
(52:38):
You're very smart, You're very pretty. Honestly, I've been a
fan since I mean forever. Thank you guys so much
for listening to today's episode. I want to hear from you.
Let's chat questions, comments, concerns. Let me know. You can
always find me at Katie's Crib at Shonda land dot com.
(53:04):
Katie's Crib is a production of Shonda Land Audio in
partnership with I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from Shondaland Audio,
visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever
you listen to your favorite shows.
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