April 9, 2021 • 52 mins
Phoebe Bridgers and Kesha talk about how death sounds so relaxing. They discuss the trials and tribulations of being female rock stars in the modern world, how to trust your feelings in art, how to creep out your therapist, and how to be more in tune with the spirit world.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Let's go tattoo chill on my ass. I would be honored,
so I never remind myself to chill only people i'm
sleeping with, only to see your butt crack. Exactly. Welcome
(00:31):
to Passion to Creepy. It's day and very super fan
girl excited to welcome Phoebe Bridgers. Thank you so much
for being on here. I'm so excited. I'm such a fan.
This is so fun. The same, I'm such a fan
and this is like such an awkward time of life.
But I'm really grateful you came on here. I'm super
excited to talk to you. Do you believe in the supernatural?
(00:57):
I think I want it too badly, Like yes, but
I feel like nothing has ever shown itself to me
because I wanted so bad, you know, like I have,
I have like liminal space supernatural feelings every once in
a while, but but I want to see ghosts in
my house so bad that I've never seen one. You know. Well,
(01:20):
I found out my brother's helping to record this podcast,
but he's like off on the side where we can't
see him. But I thought I like had a full
supernatural experience in my house, And turns out he was
just fucking with me for the TV show that we're on.
So I've been telling everyone around the world that I've
had this crazy, wild ghost experience and it was all bullshit.
I'm kind of pisted. Yeah, yeah, what I stuff happens
(01:43):
to me, like I'll oh. I actually wrote some lyrics
about it once. But I was driving up the coast
and there was a space X launch that I didn't
know about. So it's this big, like glowing orb in
the sky and I was like, this is the moment
I've been waiting for my whole life, like aliens are
showing themselves to me, And then it turned out to
be SpaceX, and I was so well. Demilovado told me
(02:08):
that there's she has like a whole series of ways
that you can go to the desert and attract extraterrestrial life.
So if you ever interested, I want to go try
so interested. So same well, because like, I'm obsessed with
aliens a little bit, and you were singing about aliens
in a song I was listening to last night, so
(02:30):
I was like, I wonder if she's ever seen them,
or she believes in them, or I think they're fully
about to show themselves. I love that optimism. I feel
like I am. I don't know, like they're either things
that we can't even perceive of as real or so
(02:51):
far away that will never see them. I just be
like the chances in the universe that they're like you know,
that they seem relatable at all to human beings, that
they would have any desire to come mess with us
is so otherworldly. But I hope so. Like I mean,
that's what that song is about. The song about aliens
is like I want it so bad that I can't
(03:12):
even believe it for myself, you know, yeah, because if
it's if you believe it too hard. It's almost like
like I love animals. You love animals, So when you're
in the wild with an animal and you want it
too bad, I feel like they can sense the desperation
and then they like funk off. So you have to
like you have to like a chill and just like
let it happen and like then they'll come maybe like
(03:34):
hang out with you. So that's what I'm trying to
do with the supernaturalism, being like, by the way, I'm
trying to chill. I'm not I have no chill, but
I'm trying, so just come like give yourself to me,
show show yourself totally. Yeah. I want to live in
that world so badly. I just like, yeah, I'm so
desperate for something interesting in my life to happen. Well, yeah, same,
(04:01):
I've been really really bored. How is your court? I mean,
you put out a record that was nominated for a
million Grammys and is amazing. It's been the soundtrack of
my quarantine. How is Quarantine for you? Um? It's cool. Like,
I'm glad that I had something to focus on that
I had already finished because I wasn't feeling super creative
and I was I was definitely in and out of
(04:24):
the same depressive episode the whole time. So so having
press every day was both mind numbing and boring, but
also like a reason to get up and a reason
to talk to somebody, especially in the beginning of COVID,
Like interviewers would be like, I love your record, how
are you like have you been watching? Yeah, like genuinely
(04:45):
being like, oh should I watch that? Like everybody was
actually talking to each other, which was fun, but yeah,
how is yours? Uh? Super weird? I have to say,
really super super weird, And yeah, I had like a
crazy spiritual moment in the middle of it that I
didn't want to have, Like when it was happening, I
(05:07):
was like, I don't want this, I don't want get
away from me. And then I made this podcast because
I was like, I wonder if other artists and just
people around the world, I just want to talk to
them about like the unexplainable or spiritual or kind of whatever,
the thing that you can't the intangible in the world
has just made its way to being at the top
of my priority list, and I just like, I've been
(05:29):
listening to your record a lot and selling my clothing
and what else have I been making a record also?
But it's just been so weird. It's so weird. Yeah,
I I think it's been hard to write music for
me because I'm so used to taking my unique um
(05:49):
perspective for granted and having my living in my own
personal misery and having such a collective shared experience and
trauma with the world. There's like, what do I have
to say about this? And like how do I say
it um, because we're all dealing with it, so like
it's not a unique experience to me, Like we're all
(06:10):
living in this crazy fucked moment exactly, and then I
wonder because like I'm a total escapist, like my music
has always been. I've always thought of it. It's like
a great escape for people, um to get out of
the misery. But when you're in a pandemic, stuck at
home alone, it's kind of hard to write about fun
(06:32):
ship when you can't go anywhere do anything. Yeah, I
always write about I think it's Gorvidal who's like he
is in Italy and he says, I always read about
America when I'm in Italy and Italy when I'm in America.
And so it's just hard to write about any experience
if you've had none basically for a year totally except
(06:52):
for being alone and wanting the spaceship to come abduct
you and take you fucking somewhere anywhere else totally. Do
you think that life's going to go back? This is
more just I'm curious. Do you think life's going to
go back to how it was pre pandemic or do
you think it's gonna be a whole new different world
there are. All will say is there's some stuff that
I won't want to come back, like excessive touching from strangers.
(07:18):
Oh my god, same like the lower back hug. I
am not gonna miss you, know what I mean? Like
when like and and I feel like this whole time
has protected me from that side of people's personalities. Like
I'll meet someone virtually and then normally in normal life,
I meet someone I talked to them and they're totally normal,
(07:39):
and then they do like one weird physical thing and
I'm just like you, like I hate you, uh so,
so this is like it makes me like people more.
Not having the obligatory even handshakes. I'm like, I don't
I love being physically affectionate with my friends, but but
I like I kind of like the like polite hello
(08:00):
wave now. And also with fans. I don't know if
you've been you know, out enough to get like rockognized
with your mask on and stuff. But but when people
like would normally like come up and and like hug
you really hard without your permission, Like I do kind
of like the like, hey, oh my gosh, I like
your music, Like it's just more polite. It's more it is.
(08:24):
I have a weird phobia of stinky fingers, Like I
really just like smelly fingers, and I've had a lot
of people grab my face with stinky hand in my life. Unfortunately.
I think it's where the phobia came from, and not
present company excluded everybody. He has great fingers, okay, but
I don't miss having someone with the stinky finger put
(08:47):
it on my face. Yeah, And I feel like people
hear me talk about that and and sometimes they're like, whoa,
you just don't like your fans or whatever. I'm like, no,
Like most of the people I meet are normal, but
then there's one person and who can rule in it
for you, Like there's one person with no boundaries who
like comes up and scares the ship out of you,
And you're like, now I don't want to talk to
anybody normal because you ruined it, right, I totally have that,
(09:12):
And like you stuck your stinky finger on my face
and then you kissed my mouth and I don't know
your name, and now I have to like ask you
about your dental hygien I was just get so awkward
with the boundary things. So I feel you, Yeah, there's
just this wall even emotionally like I I have. I
don't have a great relationship with my dad and it's
(09:34):
been a couple of years since we talked. But then
during COVID, we like talked on the phone and I
was like, oh, it's because there's this pre existing boundary
of like you're not gonna come like stay with me,
or we're not gonna like it's not gonna go farther
than like a heart to heart phone call. Like that's it.
I think I fear like at the aftermath of that
(09:56):
type of intimacy. So like with intimacy without boundaries, it's
really really just saying that because I was just talking
about that for the past two hours with I'm terrible
a boundaries, absolutely horrible. It feels like hatred. Like sending
boundaries feels like I'm being mean. And then I'll show
my friends, like a totally reasonable text I sent someone
got an unreasonable response and they're like, dude, you're being
(10:19):
so normal, Like why is it so hard to be normal?
It's so hard. I half of my notes on my
phone are like lyrics, are little ideas, are growthery lists
and that, but at least half are totally normal, reasonable
sounding text setting a very low key boundary like I'm
(10:40):
gonna start doing that. It's all my texts are just
like drafting back and drafting, like like do you send
it to people to like see if it's normal sounding
totally too yeah, And but I have sent like, yeah,
I've sent screenshots of a whole text conversation like accidentally
to the person that's the worst, Like, is so sketchy,
(11:03):
it's so sketchy with no text. Just sent the screenshot
back of our conversation to the person. They're like, what
the fund do? Oh, that's the nightmare. I've definitely like
accidentally voice memoed myself being like they're being fucking crazy,
and then like, oh shit. I have a friend who
(11:25):
was who was shipping and actually said, no, that's the nightmare.
That's going to be my nightmare tonight. That's the worst.
It's like, no, well, that's a nightmare. That's terrifying. But
I feel like with everyone being so on their phones
(11:47):
and accessible, that's one of the reasons I took Twitter
off of my phone because A, you should never drink
and post anything to anything. I learned that the hard way,
and I've done it like so any times. But you
also probably shouldn't be high. To have done that a
lot too, because I think I'm being so funny, And
(12:07):
then the next day, in the light of not being
stoned and like, now I'm just embarrassed at myself and
I'm going to deplete it and fortell it never happened. Yeah,
I think trying to be funny and feeling is mine.
I'm are you know what I mean? Like people being
like or like targeting me specifically as millennial because I
make a Harry Potter joke or something. I'm like, damn it,
(12:29):
like you're so right, like that is my whole humor.
It's like it's like sad girl, and then I get
called out word I'm so embarrassed. I think, Okay, I
don't know. I haven't fleshed out this idea, so I
don't know if I stand behind it, but I'm gonna
say it. But I again, I don't know if I
stand behind it. I think what makes some of my
(12:51):
favorite artists are the people that dare to be the
most embarrassing. Like you go for something and it's like
really rides a line of like that could have really
not landed, but it landed so fucking hard because you
dared to go there. But then there are the times
that doesn't land. And then I'm just like because I
try to like dare to be the most embarrassing version
(13:13):
of myself, Like maybe isn't like a great no, I
have the I love it. I love it. I think
the only times that I've ever regretted it is when
I step on a conversation I'm not really invited to,
or like accidentally sound super privileged just because I like
I like the internet for and songwriting for It's like
word vomit, like all you have to do is tell
(13:35):
the truth and someone will relate to you. And and
if you're embarrassing, I could write a thesis about this,
tell me. But like more than being queer, more than
being whatever. I think that if I had watched more
people as a kid be embarrassing, it would have saved
me so much hardship and heartache. Like if I had
(13:58):
looked up to people who were did you my reality
TV show? Because it's pretty fucking embarrassing? Do you want
to binge watch that? You'll get a fast track? I should.
I think my issue with reality TV though, is because
is when I see people in pain and like it's unresolved,
I can't. Like I try to watch The Bachelor. I
(14:19):
got one episode in and was like, I'm so embarrassed
with this person or I'm so sad for this person
or so like like I feel everybody's emotion in reality
TV so hard I can't function even like herban enthusiasm
and stuff. I'm like, I can't, I can't like okay,
the cringe e feeling. Yeah, I wrote a song about
this the other day called idiot Shivers. I realized my
(14:40):
favorite emotion and all of the scope of humanity is
when I get idiot shivers, like when you're seeing comedy
that's just like really bad. I want to sit in
the back of the room and get like I want
to crawl inside of my skin and die. And that's
my favorite feeling. See I feel the opposite. I feel
like and I see bad comedy. It takes years of
(15:02):
my life because I'm like so embarrassed for the person.
Even if the person is being like racist or sexist
or homophobic, and like I should hate them, I still
am like you idiot, like get off, Like I still
have this weird like savior like shut the funk up feeling.
And then it took me a long time to realize
like it's their fault and like some people myself totally included,
(15:27):
I just happen to have microphones around my face all
the time, which I don't know if I should. I
don't know if they should have a microphone. But you
give anybody a microphone, they just say dumb ship into it,
and you're like, that's embarrassing. Yeah. I'm like trying to
figure out how to put this in a song of
some sort, like about how embarrassing I feel all the time. Yeah. Yeah,
But then I'm also like, I think it's good for
(15:49):
people to try to just shoot for the stars, shoot
for those stars, and if it doesn't land, at least
just tribes there is like my mother, there's an incredible TikTok.
It's like a girl being like I so badly want
to be the mysterious girl in the corner of a
cafe you think about for the rest of your life,
but I can't shut the funk up. I really do
(16:10):
that so hard. I was like, I can't be mysterious.
I can't chuck the sunk up. Ever, I have no
like aura of mystery. It's just like, I feel like
you seem very mysterious. I appreciate magical, like the best,
coolest fuck. That's the vibe you get me. I'm just
telling you, I really really appreciate that. Thank you. So
(16:34):
you are the mysterious girl, even if you don't know it.
I tried to be the mysterious girl one time hanging
out with my mom and I was like sitting there
like making moody faces and being quiet, and She's like,
what the funk are you doing? Yeah? I was like,
all right, fine, it's not working. That sounds like my mom, Yeah,
(16:56):
how is the Grammys? But also not It was like
the whole time I was thinking, how fucking fun would
this be if we could just all be in the
same room, And and it wasn't like I think it was.
It was so well organized, but it took away from
the like week of parties or a week of meeting people,
(17:19):
and and I had tons of friends there and we
were texting like Hi, I'm on the other side of it,
like let's get a yard drink sometime. Like it just
it was definitely a memory, that's for sure, which I appreciate, Like, like,
it was a very strange here to go to the Grammy's,
especially for the first time, but I can't believe for
(17:40):
next time to like actually high five people and stuff,
even all the time earlier. I feel like it's the
first of many. Yeah, no, it'll be It'll be fun.
And it was also like it was good to get
um one under my belt because I was so nervous
and it turned out super fun and everything was nice.
So I love that. Do you know that? I don't
know why I think you would know that. My thinkin
you maybe went to the same school. Do you know
(18:01):
the high girls? Oh? Yeah, yeah we went. We did
go to the same school, did you Because I've been
friends with them since I was eighteen and I moved
out to l A. And I was like, I have
a feeling they went to the same school. Yeah. Alana
was a senior when I was a freshman and I
and we were both an opera. Oh my god. I
thought she was so awesome and she like wore baggy
T shirts and looked like a rock star and I
(18:22):
like stolen of my dad's T shirts and was like,
I look like that now I might look like her
because she's cool. Oh god, I love that. It's so
funny because she is a couple of years younger than me,
so she was I like hung out, was hanging out
with her and she was like fourteen. So funny, I know,
it's just a trip but totally anyway. I just figured
you guys would probably know each other from growing up
(18:44):
in LA and stuff. Um actual creepy questions. I read
that you like serial killers. Hm, I'm also a big fan.
Not a fan of serial killing, not promoting it, murdering
in large amounts, just saying I love to read about
(19:05):
the work of serial killers. Who's your favorite serial killer?
And like, why are you obsessed with serial killing? I've
been trying to figure this out about myself. I just
love it. I love reading about it. Yeah, I well,
there's like this O c. D thing. You become obsessed
without doing something um or obsessed with like the worst
(19:26):
possible mental image or the worst most violent act, and
you you're like, don't think about it, don't think about it,
don't think about it. And then of course you think
about it. You lose control and you think about it,
and the only real way to conquer that is too
to think it and realize it has no power over you.
And you're just like, okay, fuck you, like you're not
(19:48):
I am not my thoughts yeah and uh, and so
I used to think there was something wrong with me,
but they're set with the true crime wave. Realizing that
so many other people are go through the same exact thing.
It's awesome and it normalizes it. And also like the
Reframer not like just sick fuck right and reframing it
(20:08):
in like an abolition standpoint or like a non romanticizing
creepy white guys who kill people, uh point of view.
I think that the new true prime thing is awesome.
That being said, my first favorite was Jeffrey Dahmer because
really I love just how creative, you know, like I
(20:31):
love a good creative murder. Yeah. I think he was
my first favorite because he, like Ted Bundy interviews me
going to kill myself because he's so uh fucking full
of himself. He sounds he thinks he's so smart and
such hot shit. And Dahmer, I mean, Dahmer is a pedophile, murderer,
(20:54):
horrible person and the way that he talks about himself
is so clinical and weird, but it's not It doesn't
seem like he needs to be the center of attention,
and he doesn't blame anything. He like Ted Bundy's like,
who I blame born? And and John Wayne Gacy is like,
I blame the fucking parents for letting their kids run away,
and Jeffrey Dahmer is like, I don't know, I don't
(21:17):
know what's up. Um. I just like I've always really
wanted to do that stuff, and and I did it,
and it's just so creepy. Yeah, it's so creepy. And
then he eats the people. Yeah yeah, which to me
is like, I don't know why I like that part
so much. I wrote a song called cannibal a long
time ago, and I've always been fascinated with like cannibalism.
(21:41):
I don't know what that is, but I I know,
I have no idea. But ever since I was a
little I read about Jeffrey Dahmers, which maybe says something
about my mother just like letting me breathe whatever the
funk I want. But I now have like made pilgrimages
to where he stayed in Milwaukee and like tried to
like conjure up his spirit in the room he stayed at.
(22:04):
I'm just like kind of a sick fuck. But I
find it really fascinating maybe that people just like get
away with this ship under and they're just what, they're
just people. I think people are so scary. People are
so scary, and and I think he along with a
lot of other people. Yeah, he got away with it
for a long time, which is so funny. Again, the
(22:27):
cops like that, there's a nine one one call you've
probably heard with um, we're literally like a little boy
escaped Dahmer's apartment and the cops found him, and and
and the cop. The cops were talking to each other
and one cop is like, oh, he was just an
f sler, like, so we sent him back. And then
(22:47):
the little boy ended up dying because I remember that
they sent him back to the apartment. So the cops
just let him slide. And I think that there there
is this through line of serial killers where they get
more and more slow, be like they want to get caught,
which I think he even admitted to, but like, the
amount of ship that he got away with for so
long is so fun up, Like literally just because they
(23:10):
don't they didn't care. They were like, I don't care,
what's happening to a gay couple quote unquote and not
realizing what was a child? Holy shit, I haven't heard
this phone call. I'm gonna listen to it now because
I'm curious. It sounds very dark and again disclaimer, don't
murder people we're just talking about stuff and things because
(23:33):
we're people and we're stuck inside. Okay. But I also
I read this book about the Manson murders, and what
fascinated me, I think most was how he got other
people to murder for him, And I was like, God,
there must be some sort of charismatic side to this person.
(23:55):
And that's what freaks me out the most is that, Like,
not to get into politics, but like if you give
somebody a microphone and a big ego and they speak
like they have a big dick about something, there will
be people that will be like, yeah, right on, I'm
gonna get on board with that absolutely, especially if you
(24:16):
shut down all the mental health institutions around you know, California,
and you're just like all right, go off and self
medicated and find the loudest person who tells you what
to do and we're to stay and what to say
and how to behave Um. Yeah, it's like every call
to ever so yeah, which is also I'm not a
(24:38):
religious person. Are you religious? Not at all? Yeah? Yeah?
Me neither. Um, which also to me, like the difference
between a cult and religion. It's like, well, you're just
giving us like construction man, like a book on how
to be a person. A lot of that might be
helpful and seemingly good ideas, some of these things you're
(24:58):
saying I should do, But I don't really know the
difference between a cult and a religion if they're both
murdering other people that don't agree with them. So that's
why I kind of opt out of all of it. Yeah, totally.
It well, I think it weirdly gives people a god
complex if if they follow the rules of life and
(25:20):
they it's like a game or scientology or anything. It's
like I want to get to the highest level of
this thing, you know. Yeah, yeah, oh, it's so true.
It's like a video game. Totally. Do you play video games?
You know? I am afraid of what would happen to
me if I play video games. I've definitely had romantic
(25:41):
relationships with lots of people who play video games, and
I am jealous. I've never played a video game in
my life. Really surprises me. I have like I have.
When I was a kid, I played like an off
road video game, which I crushed at me, I say it,
But but as an adult, I've never played any of
the fun ones, which I should do. I don't know
see to me, it's kind of like the next dimension.
(26:03):
I don't think it's I don't think our brains are perceiving.
I think literally the next dimension is virtual reality. And
so I'm scared that once I go into that. It's
almost like my mom told me never to eat acid,
so I never did. She was like I was never
the same after I ate acid, And I'm kind of
nervous that going into video game world would be kind
(26:24):
of like once you see this whole new dimension, in
this whole new reality, then you can become obsessed with
it and want to just live in it all the time. Totally. Yeah, Well,
the Nine Boys showed me virtual reality, like in a
big headset. It was wild, like you're you walk off
of a building. Why would anybody do that? It was
(26:49):
kind of awesome, like he gives you the same like
gut feeling of falling and and I'm obsessed with dreams too.
I canp're the closest thing to you know, another dimension
that we can get to. So it felt like that,
and it felt kind of like a dream state too,
where like it's not all fully formed, like it's such
early days of virtual reality that it's kind of like
low rent and that was even cooler to me. You know,
(27:12):
I'm like stepping in a completely different world. Well, the
weird part is it feels real because you have this
thing on your face, so you'll get that adrenaline rush
of maybe kind of dying because I've seen the game
where you're talking about, right, you like walk on a
stick and then you fall off a building. Yeah, my
drummer Marshal like cry, oh my god. Yeah, but like
(27:37):
why do we all want to feel that way? That's
so sick, so sick. But yeah, that's kind of like one.
I think dreams and virtual reality those are the two
things wherem like maybe that's the next dimension, or maybe
like that's visiting a different dimension, or maybe we're all
just a simulation. I'm trying to figure it out. That's
why i started podcast. I thought maybe you'll have some
(27:59):
answers for Well, I'm obsessed with anything that reframes your mindset,
whether it's meditation or video games or dreams or taking
a nice walk after reading side all day, like anything
that changes your mood, or like if you've ever been
to a James Drill exhibit, like why does this purple
make me feel sad, like I love that ship I
(28:21):
do too, Do you know Dan Flavin? No, Oh, it's
like this these artists that uses lots of neon. But
it's so interesting what a color can do to your mood. Totally,
and I love like I'm not at all in art snob.
I just know that some things make me really happy
and some things are scary. And you know, I don't
(28:44):
like what I like. I think like everybody, which is
why art is so confusing. I know I love that
because I love I love. I've been trying to articulate
this where I feel like it's easier for people to
say what music they like because or maybe it's just me.
I don't know, but but like I hear a song
and I kind of immediately know if it's gonna affect me,
and it might take a couple of times to realize
(29:05):
if it's my favorite song I've ever heard or not.
But but I've been in so many galleries looking at
art where I'm like, am I supposed to like this?
You know, like what is this? And then I've also
been brought to tears by a portrait in a random
gallery and every bes Russian body and that's so magical
(29:25):
to you, Like, I think that art people need to
trust their feeling on art Otherwise every like who would
who would listen to a song and be like it's
stupid they you like this? Like that person has some
serious problems. Oh I get that about my songs all
the time. I've been called a guilty pleasure for a
long time, which I'm totally fine with it. If people
need to do it in private, it's fine, Like, go
(29:49):
listen to my records in private and have a great time.
As long as it's like connecting and bringing somebody some
sort of something. I'm like, great, whatever. But I also
feel like that's that's also a testament to how a
media we effective. Your music is, whereas I get like
boring all the time. Oh my god, your music is
the least boring thing ever. It's I think your music
(30:09):
is the least guilty, Like, like who would be guilty
of something that's just good? And I've always felt like
guilty pleasures um are kind of sexist, Like it's just
like this weird gate keeping. Um Like if if people
like this and it can dance to it, then it's
then you have to feel guilty about it. Like I'm like,
I don't want to go see your fucking noise rock
band bro, like you know, oh my god preach or
(30:36):
like maybe I do, but I also want to go
see Britney Spears in Vegas exactly and eat my dick.
Yeah exactly. That's where I'm at. Yeah, but your music
is don't not point. There's one lyric where like I
miss you like I'm a little kid or just like
a little kid, and like I relate to that like
(30:57):
deeply in my bones. When I heard that for the
first time, I was like, oh, like it's like earth
heart like, like I know that feeling, and I just
love the feeling when you hear it come out of
somebody else's mouth and you're like, fuck, that's exactly how
I didn't even know I was feeling, and they just
(31:17):
put it into words and it's like both happy and
sad and honest and like something I wouldn't necessarily have
said myself because I'm not in touch with myself enough
to know that I would feel that way. So I'm
just like super fan over here. I think you're grant.
What's funny. It's funny about music though, Like don't you
ever feel like when I wrote that lyric, I was
(31:41):
I was like, fuck this person, I hate them, but
that's not a I was like, that's not a very
interesting song. I should try to make it sound more
complex than that, or like add some new feelings. And
so I wrote that, and then a couple of months
later I had the perspective to realize I was like
totally telling the truth. Yes, And do you ever feel
like when you're writing a song that you don't even
(32:03):
know what you're feeling until it literally falls out of
your face and then you listen to and you're like, oh, ship,
I didn't know I was even feeling like that. Absolutely.
It's like when your therapist looks at you like yo,
like what people say, like that's really pucked up, and
you're like, what are you talking about? I know that
feeling really really well, And then I'll be like, wait
(32:29):
to have something on my face and she's like, no,
that's just real fucked up. Totally totally. But that's for
me when I write songs. I don't know if it's
like this for you, but it is like therapy. It's
like doing therapy for mass consumption and judgment, which is
the kind of sick messochistic part, but I really enjoy
(32:51):
the like therapeutic exorcism of demon like demonic thing part,
Like the making of it to me is so fun
me too. And and you meet people who connect with
your most inner sort of subconscious thoughts in a real
way and relate to you more than anybody. And you
also alienate people who fucking stuff like like for me,
(33:13):
I get a lot of like men's rights people on
my internet like being like fuck you or whatever, and
I'm just like, this is awesome. I was like I
have because I believe in my art and because I
like did a therapy session and monetized it, like I
am attracting the right people and pushing away the people
(33:34):
I never want to speak to me or look at me,
you know. Oh my god. Fuck yeah, I'm gonna butcher
the quote. But Kirk Coobaan said something along the lines
of like, if you're a homophobic or racist, and I
forget what else, are just like more or less a
piece of ship, don't buy my record. I don't want
your money. And that's how I feel too. I've been
(33:56):
um at the Westboro Baptist Church pay getting outside one
of my shows, and I was so proud of myself totally.
I was like, Mom loved that ship. And I think
especially as like a white woman in America. In America,
it can feel like I'm like writing this line of like, um,
(34:17):
like benefiting so much from a system I hate. Uh.
And so when like I posted this thing about abortion
rights and like my actual fans were like, I think
that you're a murderer or whatever, people who like my music,
And I was like, whoa, Like you've been listening to
my music and like crazy, like how did you? I've
(34:42):
had some weird experiences like that too, where I'm like,
have you been listening to the words? Though? Totally, like like,
I've been pretty upfront with how I feel. Well. Martin Scrully, uh,
the guy who jacked up the AIDS medication prices and
it's like the most hated man of the time. He
like quoted Connor Oberst's political band in an interview once,
(35:07):
and Connor was like, what the fuck? How did you?
How did you hear my punk band? I think this
is like for you, Oh my god, that's so scary.
Do you'd sing a lot about death and being raised?
My mom's a total goth. She doesn't know, but she's
(35:28):
a total god. She loves talking about death, and like,
I guess I kind of am too. I think quite
a fair amount about dying. Do you think it's like
something that drives you to be better? Is it just
something that freaks you out so much? Do you want
to address it? Or is like all the things I
weirdly think, like thinking about death is very weirdly relaxing
(35:51):
to me, Like it's just that sounds so you know,
but like, oh, I have a lot of friends who
write similar music to me, and death is like this
constant obsession that keeps them up at night and stuff
I'm more afraid of, like waking life. I'm way more
afraid of life than I am of death. And it's
never been an obsession, but I am obsessed with the
things that people do in life, and and I've been
(36:14):
in love with a lot of people who are obsessed
with death, So I think I But but as far
as my relationship to death, I actually kind of feel like,
you know, it's it's the it's the most human experience
like that we all go through at some point, and
it's weird that we all have like a thing that
is what kills us. Um. But I think about it
(36:36):
as like an abstract thing more. I think about it
all the time, not to sound like a total goth,
but I think about how like relaxing it sounds. Yeah,
it sounds really relaxed, Like I'm going to live a
full life and enjoy my time on this plane, in
this this body I've been given. I'm gonna try to
just have like a really good time in it. But
(36:57):
like I've been reading a lot about the afterlife and
what what happens after you know, and does your soul
go somewhere and do you come back? And do you
reincarnate or do you turn into a mushroom or what?
I don't know, who knows, nobody knows, but I do,
like obsessively wonder about these things. But I hope that
(37:18):
before I turn into a mushroom or a baby or
an alien or nothing, I hope I get to take
like a fucking nap, like a really long nap totally,
like they can then please be arrest. Between now and
(37:38):
the afterlife, there were no dreams, no dreams, just like
a deep, dark, damp nap totally. But I do I
want to come back, and I kind of want to
come back. There's a mushroom or a whale. Yeah thing. Yeah,
(38:00):
mushrooms are something I've never understood and and that are
so etherial to me. It would be cool too, like
the fact that they help trees communicate with like he's
sick in the forest. It's cool mushrooms. I think. I
don't know. Again, not a fully formed thought here, but
I think mushrooms are maybe the key to higher consciousness
(38:25):
or maybe they're aliens or I don't know. I just
think there's something. Mushrooms are crazy little motherfucker's. Yeah, there's
something up with mushrooms. There's something. There's something going on
with them. Do you know about thin places? I think
that's a mushroom. But it's a Celtic thing, I think.
(38:46):
But it's basically like a thin place is the space
like spaces on Earth that are closer to a spirit
realm than than you know. It's like the place in
between basic Wait, yes, I never heard that term before.
Obsessed obsessed, Like I constantly am looking for like a
(39:07):
beautiful hike to go on, and I feel like I
never know when the feeling is going to hit me,
but it but when it does, it's so magical. But yeah,
mushroom mushrooms, and like I'm obsessed with with like fancy
or one like hot hot chocolates and stuff was like
mushroom powder. Like I just want to be closer to
the nature. I feel like that my closest being in
(39:32):
nature moment is like the most what's what do you
call it? The thin places? So I get that way.
I don't know how you feel about this. When I'm
on stage and I have to be really really really
really present, oh my gosh, absolutely yes, that's one place.
And then if I'm like in the ocean and there's
like a shark or a whale or something like any
(39:54):
time and my adrenaline goes up, I feel like I
have to be present and being that present, I think
is like what you're talking about, totally yeah. Or or
if I have like a really really intense crush, I
think I love a crush, like it just it. I
feel like I don't give a fuck so much of
the time. And you know, I've also had the experience
(40:16):
of of like right before I go on stage, or
even being on stage and being like this is a
hundredth time I've done this. Like I used to get
adrenaline doing this and now I don't um, but like
those first couple of shows or like the last couple
of shows and you're like accidentally totally in your body.
I'm just addicted to that feeling me too, The fully
(40:38):
present like that seems to me like it's like being
in touch with your higher highest self is when you're
that present. Yeah, and when you're like ready to be
perceived also. I think that's what's also been hard about
this year, like realizing how much I will let myself
go mentally and physically if I am not being siege
(41:00):
all the time. Like if I if I put on
my stage costume and I am singing my hardest, I'm like,
this is I am presenting myself? Yeah, like a peacock
totally totally. But then like do peacocks fluff up if
there's no ladies to impress around? Yeah? True? If a
peacock shoots in the woods, the hope does he fluff up? No?
(41:24):
I don't know. If you have no one to fluff
your feathers for, then do you fluff them? And without
the fluffing, who are you? I mean? Maybe if they
had the Internet, Like I have friends who during COVID
were like I put on makeup today for some reason,
but I know about it because they put it online. Yeah,
that is a nice place to dump some sort of
(41:47):
like purpose is like online if I need like a
like a purposeful thing where I'm like, oh, I did
a thing, put it out there because I did this
thing and everyone needs to know. I don't know why
everyone needs to see it, but they do. Yeah. I
love that. It's such a weird feeling because like that
didn't exist when I was really little, Like there was
(42:08):
none of that, and so all of a sudden then
being like, oh, every time I literally take a piss
or change my shoes, I'm gonna tell the whole world
all about it. It's a weird. It's weird life for
living in. My makeup artist was telling me, wait, I'm
gonna funk this up. Have you heard about the icelandic
(42:32):
volcano activity that maybe is sparking a hundred years of
activity of volcanic eruptions. No, Basically, do you think this
is the end of times? I think I've always, like,
more than death or anything, I've always felt like the
end of times we're coming. Um, like, have we arrived?
(42:54):
Are we there? I don't think we're so lucky. I
think we have more years, you know what, and like
I feel like there's gonna be so much destruction and
stuff before the end of times for real. So I
think in my obsession with death has led me into
wanting to lead an extraordinarily exciting life because I'm like,
(43:16):
we maybe come back, or maybe we turn into a mushroom.
So the death pushed me to do a bunch of
crazy ship this lifetime. In the process, I've got addicted
to that feeling of like that adrenaline feeling you're talking about,
but also just being super super presently, having to be
super fucking present. So I like love swimming with sharks
and stuff. I like doing things like maybe it could
(43:38):
kill me, but then when it does and I'm like,
oh that was awesome. Damn I wish I could. I
saw a shark in the water in Melody once and
I like didn't get in the ocean like a year
really obviousit reaction. I'm way more scared of pain than
I am of death. Like, yeah, I'm afraid of discomfort
(44:00):
in pain so much more than enough. But is it
pain necessary to write music? May be the only one
that thinks this. I feel like it's like absolutely necessary
when I'm writing music. Yeah, I think pain is necessary,
and I definitely definitely don't avoid emotional pain as much
as I should. But it's like physical pain. So you
don't have any tattoos. I do. I love tattoos, So
(44:22):
you do. Yeah, I just mean like unpredictable, uncontrolled pain,
like you like a shark bite or even I went
surfreaking a couple of times and I got like crushed
by a wave and like hurt my lower back and
I was just like how for like three months. I
hate that, um, But but I love getting tattoos. It's
like controlled and you're like so many people do it,
(44:44):
you know, like it's it's fine. Yeah, it's totally fine.
People have been doing it since the dawn of Well,
I don't actually know. This is not a fact people
get tattoos, and I think it's been recorded for a
very very very long time totally. So I have a
bunch of kind of wish I hadn't got some of them.
I gotta be honest, really, I think I think if
you only have incredible tattoos, you're a cop, or you're
(45:09):
a serial killer, totally like I think, or you are
a Barrista and you add intelligence yet exactly like I
think bad tattoos are part of life. They are they
tell a story. Yeah, and and also like who gives
a ship Like you're not it's not gonna keep you
(45:29):
up at night at a bad tattoo, Like you're just
gonna be like, oh, this is my bad tattoo. Like
I love those people, you know, Like check out my
friend griff In DAWs. He plays um drums, has a
basketball going into a hoop that's a swish. Oh no,
it's incredible. It's like read like a child to I
(45:50):
have no idea who did it? But that was amazing?
Did he know it was bad going into it? I
honestly have no idea, but I love his just like,
oh yeah, here's my horrible tatoo. Oh I have so many.
I have so many worst. I have narwalls dancing on
my arm. I have. Here's the worst tattoo I have.
It says on my fucking arm. It says chill. I
(46:13):
love that. I hate it. There's nothing about that chills.
What the funk was? I think? What? Like, like, honestly,
the truth for so many, like the answered to so
many questions is chill you know, how is my reasoning
behind it? But like, I don't have that part of
my brain has not yet been activated. My friend Hayley,
(46:37):
who's in Slappy Gaine, Uh this awesome band, has a
tattoo on her inner thigh that's says scratch and sniff.
Oh my god. And she was like so many people
when she was getting in it was like, what about
when you're old? And she was like, especially when I'm old. Oh,
I love I love an older person with shitty tattoo.
(47:00):
Like I once put this guy when I went to sundance,
like way before I ever had like any money. So
I'm walking in this note I find a hundred dollar bill.
I feel like a fucking baller. And this guy is like,
do you need a ride? Shouldn't have taken the ride?
Took the ride. He drops me off of my place
everybody lives he has. He's like, you want to see
all my tattoos. He has covered in tattoos of people
(47:21):
in different sexual positions, just having sex the lover's body. Wow,
he's disgusting. That's interesting gross. Yeah, that's fucking gross. I
am still on the daily hunt for my lower back
tattoo though, like, oh, you don't have one yet. You
could get chill in a different language. Yeah, I should
(47:43):
get chill in a different language, um, like one that
you don't speak, and probably maybe it'll be spelled wrong.
And I have a tattoo gun. Okay wait, I have
like a couple of stupid, stupid questions. If you don't
like one, say pass. If you like one, you can
answer it. Okay. If you had a cult, what would
(48:04):
your manifesto be, um, chill? I kind of though it
would kind of be like chill would live left Loo
or something like. It would just be like, you know,
it wouldn't have any creepy sex or any mandatory anything
other than just like relax. You know. I love that
I would join. I would not know how to chill,
(48:25):
but I would try totally. Well that would I think
it would be for those people like people with trauma
or people with like no chill. It would be like,
no chill, here's how to chill. Oh, you're gonna have
to write the handbook so I can follow it, like
any good cult, give me some step by seven instructions.
But we still have to shave our heads. Damn it
(48:47):
already did that once. It really was not fitting on
my face. Yeah, I shaved your head, yes, and I'm
my head to shape shaped weird. So it was not great,
but I liked the like fuzzy in between part. Maybe
that would be what we do. Yeah, that's cute. I
used to get like shapes and ship in my totally. Okay,
would you like to start a secret conspiracy on this podcast?
(49:12):
Mm hmm. I mean I feel like once it's on
the podcast, it's not secret, but I know that's like
the the double edged sword of having a podcast. The
one this is not my own, but the one conspiracy
that I'm kind of down with is like count trails.
I'm like, yeah, you think about them? Yeah, I'm like
I could see that happening once or twice. I'm not
(49:34):
saying that every time you see them it's it's poison,
but I was like, I can totally see them at
one point in history poisoning neighborhood and being covered up,
Like I can totally see that. Well, I mean, like
the serial killer conversation. I just don't put much past
people because there's such amazing people and then they're fucking
(49:55):
scary people exactly. Okay, So Kim Trails and Okay, last question.
It was, Oh, what's invisible that you wish people could see?
I love this question. Um uh. I wish people could
(50:20):
see when the other person didn't want to be having
small talk, Like I feel like so many small talk
conversations are both people are in hell and they don't
know how to stop it. So I wish there was
like a conversation prompt this just like you know, like
I love bonding with someone at a party over like
I hated here, or I just had the worst conversation,
(50:43):
like like ship talking and gossip I think is really
actually healthy and important. Um. So I wish people could
see like they're like minded person, or like see social
anxiety more or see like yeah, just it would be
easier to match up with people and hanging out. Yeah,
have like have the brethren of hatred of small talk
(51:08):
where you have like shine a light or there's a
button where you're like get me out. I want totally totally. Yeah.
I just wish people could see what color I am
because I feel like I'm turquoise. I have a turquoise heart,
and my aura's turquoise. I wish people could see my
turquoise aura. Yeah, I want to know what my wora
(51:29):
is I I totally see turquoise for you. But you're Leo,
so that's a fire sign. So you might be like
gravitated more towards the oranges and reds, but maybe not.
I don't know. I know somebody that can take your
or a photo though. It's fucking amazing. I'll send it.
It's great. You should have to definitely report back and
(51:50):
tell me what color you are. Okay, well, thank you
so much for just like bullshitting with me. I'm such
a fan, and hopefully I'll meet you in real life
one day. I know I would love that. Thank you
so much, so fun, Oh my god, thank you, and
congratulations on being nominated for a bunch of Grammys and
making awesome music and just being you you. Thank you
(52:14):
all right, keep on creeping on. Thanks everybody for look me.
Let's go tattoo chill on my ass. I would be honored,
so I never remind myself to chill only people i'm
sleeping with, only to see your butt crack. Exactly. Welcome
(00:31):
to Passion to Creepy. It's day and very super fan
girl excited to welcome Phoebe Bridgers. Thank you so much
for being on here. I'm so excited. I'm such a fan.
This is so fun. The same, I'm such a fan
and this is like such an awkward time of life.
But I'm really grateful you came on here. I'm super
excited to talk to you. Do you believe in the supernatural?
(00:57):
I think I want it too badly, Like yes, but
I feel like nothing has ever shown itself to me
because I wanted so bad, you know, like I have,
I have like liminal space supernatural feelings every once in
a while, but but I want to see ghosts in
my house so bad that I've never seen one. You know. Well,
(01:20):
I found out my brother's helping to record this podcast,
but he's like off on the side where we can't
see him. But I thought I like had a full
supernatural experience in my house, And turns out he was
just fucking with me for the TV show that we're on.
So I've been telling everyone around the world that I've
had this crazy, wild ghost experience and it was all bullshit.
I'm kind of pisted. Yeah, yeah, what I stuff happens
(01:43):
to me, like I'll oh. I actually wrote some lyrics
about it once. But I was driving up the coast
and there was a space X launch that I didn't
know about. So it's this big, like glowing orb in
the sky and I was like, this is the moment
I've been waiting for my whole life, like aliens are
showing themselves to me, And then it turned out to
be SpaceX, and I was so well. Demilovado told me
(02:08):
that there's she has like a whole series of ways
that you can go to the desert and attract extraterrestrial life.
So if you ever interested, I want to go try
so interested. So same well, because like, I'm obsessed with
aliens a little bit, and you were singing about aliens
in a song I was listening to last night, so
(02:30):
I was like, I wonder if she's ever seen them,
or she believes in them, or I think they're fully
about to show themselves. I love that optimism. I feel
like I am. I don't know, like they're either things
that we can't even perceive of as real or so
(02:51):
far away that will never see them. I just be
like the chances in the universe that they're like you know,
that they seem relatable at all to human beings, that
they would have any desire to come mess with us
is so otherworldly. But I hope so. Like I mean,
that's what that song is about. The song about aliens
is like I want it so bad that I can't
(03:12):
even believe it for myself, you know, yeah, because if
it's if you believe it too hard. It's almost like
like I love animals. You love animals, So when you're
in the wild with an animal and you want it
too bad, I feel like they can sense the desperation
and then they like funk off. So you have to
like you have to like a chill and just like
let it happen and like then they'll come maybe like
(03:34):
hang out with you. So that's what I'm trying to
do with the supernaturalism, being like, by the way, I'm
trying to chill. I'm not I have no chill, but
I'm trying, so just come like give yourself to me,
show show yourself totally. Yeah. I want to live in
that world so badly. I just like, yeah, I'm so
desperate for something interesting in my life to happen. Well, yeah, same,
(04:01):
I've been really really bored. How is your court? I mean,
you put out a record that was nominated for a
million Grammys and is amazing. It's been the soundtrack of
my quarantine. How is Quarantine for you? Um? It's cool. Like,
I'm glad that I had something to focus on that
I had already finished because I wasn't feeling super creative
and I was I was definitely in and out of
(04:24):
the same depressive episode the whole time. So so having
press every day was both mind numbing and boring, but
also like a reason to get up and a reason
to talk to somebody, especially in the beginning of COVID,
Like interviewers would be like, I love your record, how
are you like have you been watching? Yeah, like genuinely
(04:45):
being like, oh should I watch that? Like everybody was
actually talking to each other, which was fun, but yeah,
how is yours? Uh? Super weird? I have to say,
really super super weird, And yeah, I had like a
crazy spiritual moment in the middle of it that I
didn't want to have, Like when it was happening, I
(05:07):
was like, I don't want this, I don't want get
away from me. And then I made this podcast because
I was like, I wonder if other artists and just
people around the world, I just want to talk to
them about like the unexplainable or spiritual or kind of whatever,
the thing that you can't the intangible in the world
has just made its way to being at the top
of my priority list, and I just like, I've been
(05:29):
listening to your record a lot and selling my clothing
and what else have I been making a record also?
But it's just been so weird. It's so weird. Yeah,
I I think it's been hard to write music for
me because I'm so used to taking my unique um
(05:49):
perspective for granted and having my living in my own
personal misery and having such a collective shared experience and
trauma with the world. There's like, what do I have
to say about this? And like how do I say
it um, because we're all dealing with it, so like
it's not a unique experience to me, Like we're all
(06:10):
living in this crazy fucked moment exactly, and then I
wonder because like I'm a total escapist, like my music
has always been. I've always thought of it. It's like
a great escape for people, um to get out of
the misery. But when you're in a pandemic, stuck at
home alone, it's kind of hard to write about fun
(06:32):
ship when you can't go anywhere do anything. Yeah, I
always write about I think it's Gorvidal who's like he
is in Italy and he says, I always read about
America when I'm in Italy and Italy when I'm in America.
And so it's just hard to write about any experience
if you've had none basically for a year totally except
(06:52):
for being alone and wanting the spaceship to come abduct
you and take you fucking somewhere anywhere else totally. Do
you think that life's going to go back? This is
more just I'm curious. Do you think life's going to
go back to how it was pre pandemic or do
you think it's gonna be a whole new different world
there are. All will say is there's some stuff that
I won't want to come back, like excessive touching from strangers.
(07:18):
Oh my god, same like the lower back hug. I
am not gonna miss you, know what I mean? Like
when like and and I feel like this whole time
has protected me from that side of people's personalities. Like
I'll meet someone virtually and then normally in normal life,
I meet someone I talked to them and they're totally normal,
(07:39):
and then they do like one weird physical thing and
I'm just like you, like I hate you, uh so,
so this is like it makes me like people more.
Not having the obligatory even handshakes. I'm like, I don't
I love being physically affectionate with my friends, but but
I like I kind of like the like polite hello
(08:00):
wave now. And also with fans. I don't know if
you've been you know, out enough to get like rockognized
with your mask on and stuff. But but when people
like would normally like come up and and like hug
you really hard without your permission, Like I do kind
of like the like, hey, oh my gosh, I like
your music, Like it's just more polite. It's more it is.
(08:24):
I have a weird phobia of stinky fingers, Like I
really just like smelly fingers, and I've had a lot
of people grab my face with stinky hand in my life. Unfortunately.
I think it's where the phobia came from, and not
present company excluded everybody. He has great fingers, okay, but
I don't miss having someone with the stinky finger put
(08:47):
it on my face. Yeah, And I feel like people
hear me talk about that and and sometimes they're like, whoa,
you just don't like your fans or whatever. I'm like, no,
Like most of the people I meet are normal, but
then there's one person and who can rule in it
for you, Like there's one person with no boundaries who
like comes up and scares the ship out of you,
And you're like, now I don't want to talk to
anybody normal because you ruined it, right, I totally have that,
(09:12):
And like you stuck your stinky finger on my face
and then you kissed my mouth and I don't know
your name, and now I have to like ask you
about your dental hygien I was just get so awkward
with the boundary things. So I feel you, Yeah, there's
just this wall even emotionally like I I have. I
don't have a great relationship with my dad and it's
(09:34):
been a couple of years since we talked. But then
during COVID, we like talked on the phone and I
was like, oh, it's because there's this pre existing boundary
of like you're not gonna come like stay with me,
or we're not gonna like it's not gonna go farther
than like a heart to heart phone call. Like that's it.
I think I fear like at the aftermath of that
(09:56):
type of intimacy. So like with intimacy without boundaries, it's
really really just saying that because I was just talking
about that for the past two hours with I'm terrible
a boundaries, absolutely horrible. It feels like hatred. Like sending
boundaries feels like I'm being mean. And then I'll show
my friends, like a totally reasonable text I sent someone
got an unreasonable response and they're like, dude, you're being
(10:19):
so normal, Like why is it so hard to be normal?
It's so hard. I half of my notes on my
phone are like lyrics, are little ideas, are growthery lists
and that, but at least half are totally normal, reasonable
sounding text setting a very low key boundary like I'm
(10:40):
gonna start doing that. It's all my texts are just
like drafting back and drafting, like like do you send
it to people to like see if it's normal sounding
totally too yeah, And but I have sent like, yeah,
I've sent screenshots of a whole text conversation like accidentally
to the person that's the worst, Like, is so sketchy,
(11:03):
it's so sketchy with no text. Just sent the screenshot
back of our conversation to the person. They're like, what
the fund do? Oh, that's the nightmare. I've definitely like
accidentally voice memoed myself being like they're being fucking crazy,
and then like, oh shit. I have a friend who
(11:25):
was who was shipping and actually said, no, that's the nightmare.
That's going to be my nightmare tonight. That's the worst.
It's like, no, well, that's a nightmare. That's terrifying. But
I feel like with everyone being so on their phones
(11:47):
and accessible, that's one of the reasons I took Twitter
off of my phone because A, you should never drink
and post anything to anything. I learned that the hard way,
and I've done it like so any times. But you
also probably shouldn't be high. To have done that a
lot too, because I think I'm being so funny, And
(12:07):
then the next day, in the light of not being
stoned and like, now I'm just embarrassed at myself and
I'm going to deplete it and fortell it never happened. Yeah,
I think trying to be funny and feeling is mine.
I'm are you know what I mean? Like people being
like or like targeting me specifically as millennial because I
make a Harry Potter joke or something. I'm like, damn it,
(12:29):
like you're so right, like that is my whole humor.
It's like it's like sad girl, and then I get
called out word I'm so embarrassed. I think, Okay, I
don't know. I haven't fleshed out this idea, so I
don't know if I stand behind it, but I'm gonna
say it. But I again, I don't know if I
stand behind it. I think what makes some of my
(12:51):
favorite artists are the people that dare to be the
most embarrassing. Like you go for something and it's like
really rides a line of like that could have really
not landed, but it landed so fucking hard because you
dared to go there. But then there are the times
that doesn't land. And then I'm just like because I
try to like dare to be the most embarrassing version
(13:13):
of myself, Like maybe isn't like a great no, I
have the I love it. I love it. I think
the only times that I've ever regretted it is when
I step on a conversation I'm not really invited to,
or like accidentally sound super privileged just because I like
I like the internet for and songwriting for It's like
word vomit, like all you have to do is tell
(13:35):
the truth and someone will relate to you. And and
if you're embarrassing, I could write a thesis about this,
tell me. But like more than being queer, more than
being whatever. I think that if I had watched more
people as a kid be embarrassing, it would have saved
me so much hardship and heartache. Like if I had
(13:58):
looked up to people who were did you my reality
TV show? Because it's pretty fucking embarrassing? Do you want
to binge watch that? You'll get a fast track? I should.
I think my issue with reality TV though, is because
is when I see people in pain and like it's unresolved,
I can't. Like I try to watch The Bachelor. I
(14:19):
got one episode in and was like, I'm so embarrassed
with this person or I'm so sad for this person
or so like like I feel everybody's emotion in reality
TV so hard I can't function even like herban enthusiasm
and stuff. I'm like, I can't, I can't like okay,
the cringe e feeling. Yeah, I wrote a song about
this the other day called idiot Shivers. I realized my
(14:40):
favorite emotion and all of the scope of humanity is
when I get idiot shivers, like when you're seeing comedy
that's just like really bad. I want to sit in
the back of the room and get like I want
to crawl inside of my skin and die. And that's
my favorite feeling. See I feel the opposite. I feel
like and I see bad comedy. It takes years of
(15:02):
my life because I'm like so embarrassed for the person.
Even if the person is being like racist or sexist
or homophobic, and like I should hate them, I still
am like you idiot, like get off, Like I still
have this weird like savior like shut the funk up feeling.
And then it took me a long time to realize
like it's their fault and like some people myself totally included,
(15:27):
I just happen to have microphones around my face all
the time, which I don't know if I should. I
don't know if they should have a microphone. But you
give anybody a microphone, they just say dumb ship into it,
and you're like, that's embarrassing. Yeah. I'm like trying to
figure out how to put this in a song of
some sort, like about how embarrassing I feel all the time. Yeah. Yeah,
But then I'm also like, I think it's good for
(15:49):
people to try to just shoot for the stars, shoot
for those stars, and if it doesn't land, at least
just tribes there is like my mother, there's an incredible TikTok.
It's like a girl being like I so badly want
to be the mysterious girl in the corner of a
cafe you think about for the rest of your life,
but I can't shut the funk up. I really do
(16:10):
that so hard. I was like, I can't be mysterious.
I can't chuck the sunk up. Ever, I have no
like aura of mystery. It's just like, I feel like
you seem very mysterious. I appreciate magical, like the best,
coolest fuck. That's the vibe you get me. I'm just
telling you, I really really appreciate that. Thank you. So
(16:34):
you are the mysterious girl, even if you don't know it.
I tried to be the mysterious girl one time hanging
out with my mom and I was like sitting there
like making moody faces and being quiet, and She's like,
what the funk are you doing? Yeah? I was like,
all right, fine, it's not working. That sounds like my mom, Yeah,
(16:56):
how is the Grammys? But also not It was like
the whole time I was thinking, how fucking fun would
this be if we could just all be in the
same room, And and it wasn't like I think it was.
It was so well organized, but it took away from
the like week of parties or a week of meeting people,
(17:19):
and and I had tons of friends there and we
were texting like Hi, I'm on the other side of it,
like let's get a yard drink sometime. Like it just
it was definitely a memory, that's for sure, which I appreciate, Like, like,
it was a very strange here to go to the Grammy's,
especially for the first time, but I can't believe for
(17:40):
next time to like actually high five people and stuff,
even all the time earlier. I feel like it's the
first of many. Yeah, no, it'll be It'll be fun.
And it was also like it was good to get
um one under my belt because I was so nervous
and it turned out super fun and everything was nice.
So I love that. Do you know that? I don't
know why I think you would know that. My thinkin
you maybe went to the same school. Do you know
(18:01):
the high girls? Oh? Yeah, yeah we went. We did
go to the same school, did you Because I've been
friends with them since I was eighteen and I moved
out to l A. And I was like, I have
a feeling they went to the same school. Yeah. Alana
was a senior when I was a freshman and I
and we were both an opera. Oh my god. I
thought she was so awesome and she like wore baggy
T shirts and looked like a rock star and I
(18:22):
like stolen of my dad's T shirts and was like,
I look like that now I might look like her
because she's cool. Oh god, I love that. It's so
funny because she is a couple of years younger than me,
so she was I like hung out, was hanging out
with her and she was like fourteen. So funny, I know,
it's just a trip but totally anyway. I just figured
you guys would probably know each other from growing up
(18:44):
in LA and stuff. Um actual creepy questions. I read
that you like serial killers. Hm, I'm also a big fan.
Not a fan of serial killing, not promoting it, murdering
in large amounts, just saying I love to read about
(19:05):
the work of serial killers. Who's your favorite serial killer?
And like, why are you obsessed with serial killing? I've
been trying to figure this out about myself. I just
love it. I love reading about it. Yeah, I well,
there's like this O c. D thing. You become obsessed
without doing something um or obsessed with like the worst
(19:26):
possible mental image or the worst most violent act, and
you you're like, don't think about it, don't think about it,
don't think about it. And then of course you think
about it. You lose control and you think about it,
and the only real way to conquer that is too
to think it and realize it has no power over you.
And you're just like, okay, fuck you, like you're not
(19:48):
I am not my thoughts yeah and uh, and so
I used to think there was something wrong with me,
but they're set with the true crime wave. Realizing that
so many other people are go through the same exact thing.
It's awesome and it normalizes it. And also like the
Reframer not like just sick fuck right and reframing it
(20:08):
in like an abolition standpoint or like a non romanticizing
creepy white guys who kill people, uh point of view.
I think that the new true prime thing is awesome.
That being said, my first favorite was Jeffrey Dahmer because
really I love just how creative, you know, like I
(20:31):
love a good creative murder. Yeah. I think he was
my first favorite because he, like Ted Bundy interviews me
going to kill myself because he's so uh fucking full
of himself. He sounds he thinks he's so smart and
such hot shit. And Dahmer, I mean, Dahmer is a pedophile, murderer,
(20:54):
horrible person and the way that he talks about himself
is so clinical and weird, but it's not It doesn't
seem like he needs to be the center of attention,
and he doesn't blame anything. He like Ted Bundy's like,
who I blame born? And and John Wayne Gacy is like,
I blame the fucking parents for letting their kids run away,
and Jeffrey Dahmer is like, I don't know, I don't
(21:17):
know what's up. Um. I just like I've always really
wanted to do that stuff, and and I did it,
and it's just so creepy. Yeah, it's so creepy. And
then he eats the people. Yeah yeah, which to me
is like, I don't know why I like that part
so much. I wrote a song called cannibal a long
time ago, and I've always been fascinated with like cannibalism.
(21:41):
I don't know what that is, but I I know,
I have no idea. But ever since I was a
little I read about Jeffrey Dahmers, which maybe says something
about my mother just like letting me breathe whatever the
funk I want. But I now have like made pilgrimages
to where he stayed in Milwaukee and like tried to
like conjure up his spirit in the room he stayed at.
(22:04):
I'm just like kind of a sick fuck. But I
find it really fascinating maybe that people just like get
away with this ship under and they're just what, they're
just people. I think people are so scary. People are
so scary, and and I think he along with a
lot of other people. Yeah, he got away with it
for a long time, which is so funny. Again, the
(22:27):
cops like that, there's a nine one one call you've
probably heard with um, we're literally like a little boy
escaped Dahmer's apartment and the cops found him, and and
and the cop. The cops were talking to each other
and one cop is like, oh, he was just an
f sler, like, so we sent him back. And then
(22:47):
the little boy ended up dying because I remember that
they sent him back to the apartment. So the cops
just let him slide. And I think that there there
is this through line of serial killers where they get
more and more slow, be like they want to get caught,
which I think he even admitted to, but like, the
amount of ship that he got away with for so
long is so fun up, Like literally just because they
(23:10):
don't they didn't care. They were like, I don't care,
what's happening to a gay couple quote unquote and not
realizing what was a child? Holy shit, I haven't heard
this phone call. I'm gonna listen to it now because
I'm curious. It sounds very dark and again disclaimer, don't
murder people we're just talking about stuff and things because
(23:33):
we're people and we're stuck inside. Okay. But I also
I read this book about the Manson murders, and what
fascinated me, I think most was how he got other
people to murder for him, And I was like, God,
there must be some sort of charismatic side to this person.
(23:55):
And that's what freaks me out the most is that, Like,
not to get into politics, but like if you give
somebody a microphone and a big ego and they speak
like they have a big dick about something, there will
be people that will be like, yeah, right on, I'm
gonna get on board with that absolutely, especially if you
(24:16):
shut down all the mental health institutions around you know, California,
and you're just like all right, go off and self
medicated and find the loudest person who tells you what
to do and we're to stay and what to say
and how to behave Um. Yeah, it's like every call
to ever so yeah, which is also I'm not a
(24:38):
religious person. Are you religious? Not at all? Yeah? Yeah?
Me neither. Um, which also to me, like the difference
between a cult and religion. It's like, well, you're just
giving us like construction man, like a book on how
to be a person. A lot of that might be
helpful and seemingly good ideas, some of these things you're
(24:58):
saying I should do, But I don't really know the
difference between a cult and a religion if they're both
murdering other people that don't agree with them. So that's
why I kind of opt out of all of it. Yeah, totally.
It well, I think it weirdly gives people a god
complex if if they follow the rules of life and
(25:20):
they it's like a game or scientology or anything. It's
like I want to get to the highest level of
this thing, you know. Yeah, yeah, oh, it's so true.
It's like a video game. Totally. Do you play video games?
You know? I am afraid of what would happen to
me if I play video games. I've definitely had romantic
(25:41):
relationships with lots of people who play video games, and
I am jealous. I've never played a video game in
my life. Really surprises me. I have like I have.
When I was a kid, I played like an off
road video game, which I crushed at me, I say it,
But but as an adult, I've never played any of
the fun ones, which I should do. I don't know
see to me, it's kind of like the next dimension.
(26:03):
I don't think it's I don't think our brains are perceiving.
I think literally the next dimension is virtual reality. And
so I'm scared that once I go into that. It's
almost like my mom told me never to eat acid,
so I never did. She was like I was never
the same after I ate acid, And I'm kind of
nervous that going into video game world would be kind
(26:24):
of like once you see this whole new dimension, in
this whole new reality, then you can become obsessed with
it and want to just live in it all the time. Totally. Yeah, Well,
the Nine Boys showed me virtual reality, like in a
big headset. It was wild, like you're you walk off
of a building. Why would anybody do that? It was
(26:49):
kind of awesome, like he gives you the same like
gut feeling of falling and and I'm obsessed with dreams too.
I canp're the closest thing to you know, another dimension
that we can get to. So it felt like that,
and it felt kind of like a dream state too,
where like it's not all fully formed, like it's such
early days of virtual reality that it's kind of like
low rent and that was even cooler to me. You know,
(27:12):
I'm like stepping in a completely different world. Well, the
weird part is it feels real because you have this
thing on your face, so you'll get that adrenaline rush
of maybe kind of dying because I've seen the game
where you're talking about, right, you like walk on a
stick and then you fall off a building. Yeah, my
drummer Marshal like cry, oh my god. Yeah, but like
(27:37):
why do we all want to feel that way? That's
so sick, so sick. But yeah, that's kind of like one.
I think dreams and virtual reality those are the two
things wherem like maybe that's the next dimension, or maybe
like that's visiting a different dimension, or maybe we're all
just a simulation. I'm trying to figure it out. That's
why i started podcast. I thought maybe you'll have some
(27:59):
answers for Well, I'm obsessed with anything that reframes your mindset,
whether it's meditation or video games or dreams or taking
a nice walk after reading side all day, like anything
that changes your mood, or like if you've ever been
to a James Drill exhibit, like why does this purple
make me feel sad, like I love that ship I
(28:21):
do too, Do you know Dan Flavin? No, Oh, it's
like this these artists that uses lots of neon. But
it's so interesting what a color can do to your mood. Totally,
and I love like I'm not at all in art snob.
I just know that some things make me really happy
and some things are scary. And you know, I don't
(28:44):
like what I like. I think like everybody, which is
why art is so confusing. I know I love that
because I love I love. I've been trying to articulate
this where I feel like it's easier for people to
say what music they like because or maybe it's just me.
I don't know, but but like I hear a song
and I kind of immediately know if it's gonna affect me,
and it might take a couple of times to realize
(29:05):
if it's my favorite song I've ever heard or not.
But but I've been in so many galleries looking at
art where I'm like, am I supposed to like this?
You know, like what is this? And then I've also
been brought to tears by a portrait in a random
gallery and every bes Russian body and that's so magical
(29:25):
to you, Like, I think that art people need to
trust their feeling on art Otherwise every like who would
who would listen to a song and be like it's
stupid they you like this? Like that person has some
serious problems. Oh I get that about my songs all
the time. I've been called a guilty pleasure for a
long time, which I'm totally fine with it. If people
need to do it in private, it's fine, Like, go
(29:49):
listen to my records in private and have a great time.
As long as it's like connecting and bringing somebody some
sort of something. I'm like, great, whatever. But I also
feel like that's that's also a testament to how a
media we effective. Your music is, whereas I get like
boring all the time. Oh my god, your music is
the least boring thing ever. It's I think your music
(30:09):
is the least guilty, Like, like who would be guilty
of something that's just good? And I've always felt like
guilty pleasures um are kind of sexist, Like it's just
like this weird gate keeping. Um Like if if people
like this and it can dance to it, then it's
then you have to feel guilty about it. Like I'm like,
I don't want to go see your fucking noise rock
band bro, like you know, oh my god preach or
(30:36):
like maybe I do, but I also want to go
see Britney Spears in Vegas exactly and eat my dick.
Yeah exactly. That's where I'm at. Yeah, but your music
is don't not point. There's one lyric where like I
miss you like I'm a little kid or just like
a little kid, and like I relate to that like
(30:57):
deeply in my bones. When I heard that for the
first time, I was like, oh, like it's like earth
heart like, like I know that feeling, and I just
love the feeling when you hear it come out of
somebody else's mouth and you're like, fuck, that's exactly how
I didn't even know I was feeling, and they just
(31:17):
put it into words and it's like both happy and
sad and honest and like something I wouldn't necessarily have
said myself because I'm not in touch with myself enough
to know that I would feel that way. So I'm
just like super fan over here. I think you're grant.
What's funny. It's funny about music though, Like don't you
ever feel like when I wrote that lyric, I was
(31:41):
I was like, fuck this person, I hate them, but
that's not a I was like, that's not a very
interesting song. I should try to make it sound more
complex than that, or like add some new feelings. And
so I wrote that, and then a couple of months
later I had the perspective to realize I was like
totally telling the truth. Yes, And do you ever feel
like when you're writing a song that you don't even
(32:03):
know what you're feeling until it literally falls out of
your face and then you listen to and you're like, oh, ship,
I didn't know I was even feeling like that. Absolutely.
It's like when your therapist looks at you like yo,
like what people say, like that's really pucked up, and
you're like, what are you talking about? I know that
feeling really really well, And then I'll be like, wait
(32:29):
to have something on my face and she's like, no,
that's just real fucked up. Totally totally. But that's for
me when I write songs. I don't know if it's
like this for you, but it is like therapy. It's
like doing therapy for mass consumption and judgment, which is
the kind of sick messochistic part, but I really enjoy
(32:51):
the like therapeutic exorcism of demon like demonic thing part,
Like the making of it to me is so fun
me too. And and you meet people who connect with
your most inner sort of subconscious thoughts in a real
way and relate to you more than anybody. And you
also alienate people who fucking stuff like like for me,
(33:13):
I get a lot of like men's rights people on
my internet like being like fuck you or whatever, and
I'm just like, this is awesome. I was like I
have because I believe in my art and because I
like did a therapy session and monetized it, like I
am attracting the right people and pushing away the people
(33:34):
I never want to speak to me or look at me,
you know. Oh my god. Fuck yeah, I'm gonna butcher
the quote. But Kirk Coobaan said something along the lines
of like, if you're a homophobic or racist, and I
forget what else, are just like more or less a
piece of ship, don't buy my record. I don't want
your money. And that's how I feel too. I've been
(33:56):
um at the Westboro Baptist Church pay getting outside one
of my shows, and I was so proud of myself totally.
I was like, Mom loved that ship. And I think
especially as like a white woman in America. In America,
it can feel like I'm like writing this line of like, um,
(34:17):
like benefiting so much from a system I hate. Uh.
And so when like I posted this thing about abortion
rights and like my actual fans were like, I think
that you're a murderer or whatever, people who like my music,
And I was like, whoa, Like you've been listening to
my music and like crazy, like how did you? I've
(34:42):
had some weird experiences like that too, where I'm like,
have you been listening to the words? Though? Totally, like like,
I've been pretty upfront with how I feel. Well. Martin Scrully, uh,
the guy who jacked up the AIDS medication prices and
it's like the most hated man of the time. He
like quoted Connor Oberst's political band in an interview once,
(35:07):
and Connor was like, what the fuck? How did you?
How did you hear my punk band? I think this
is like for you, Oh my god, that's so scary.
Do you'd sing a lot about death and being raised?
My mom's a total goth. She doesn't know, but she's
(35:28):
a total god. She loves talking about death, and like,
I guess I kind of am too. I think quite
a fair amount about dying. Do you think it's like
something that drives you to be better? Is it just
something that freaks you out so much? Do you want
to address it? Or is like all the things I
weirdly think, like thinking about death is very weirdly relaxing
(35:51):
to me, Like it's just that sounds so you know,
but like, oh, I have a lot of friends who
write similar music to me, and death is like this
constant obsession that keeps them up at night and stuff
I'm more afraid of, like waking life. I'm way more
afraid of life than I am of death. And it's
never been an obsession, but I am obsessed with the
things that people do in life, and and I've been
(36:14):
in love with a lot of people who are obsessed
with death, So I think I But but as far
as my relationship to death, I actually kind of feel like,
you know, it's it's the it's the most human experience
like that we all go through at some point, and
it's weird that we all have like a thing that
is what kills us. Um. But I think about it
(36:36):
as like an abstract thing more. I think about it
all the time, not to sound like a total goth,
but I think about how like relaxing it sounds. Yeah,
it sounds really relaxed, Like I'm going to live a
full life and enjoy my time on this plane, in
this this body I've been given. I'm gonna try to
just have like a really good time in it. But
(36:57):
like I've been reading a lot about the afterlife and
what what happens after you know, and does your soul
go somewhere and do you come back? And do you
reincarnate or do you turn into a mushroom or what?
I don't know, who knows, nobody knows, but I do,
like obsessively wonder about these things. But I hope that
(37:18):
before I turn into a mushroom or a baby or
an alien or nothing, I hope I get to take
like a fucking nap, like a really long nap totally,
like they can then please be arrest. Between now and
(37:38):
the afterlife, there were no dreams, no dreams, just like
a deep, dark, damp nap totally. But I do I
want to come back, and I kind of want to
come back. There's a mushroom or a whale. Yeah thing. Yeah,
(38:00):
mushrooms are something I've never understood and and that are
so etherial to me. It would be cool too, like
the fact that they help trees communicate with like he's
sick in the forest. It's cool mushrooms. I think. I
don't know. Again, not a fully formed thought here, but
I think mushrooms are maybe the key to higher consciousness
(38:25):
or maybe they're aliens or I don't know. I just
think there's something. Mushrooms are crazy little motherfucker's. Yeah, there's
something up with mushrooms. There's something. There's something going on
with them. Do you know about thin places? I think
that's a mushroom. But it's a Celtic thing, I think.
(38:46):
But it's basically like a thin place is the space
like spaces on Earth that are closer to a spirit
realm than than you know. It's like the place in
between basic Wait, yes, I never heard that term before.
Obsessed obsessed, Like I constantly am looking for like a
(39:07):
beautiful hike to go on, and I feel like I
never know when the feeling is going to hit me,
but it but when it does, it's so magical. But yeah,
mushroom mushrooms, and like I'm obsessed with with like fancy
or one like hot hot chocolates and stuff was like
mushroom powder. Like I just want to be closer to
the nature. I feel like that my closest being in
(39:32):
nature moment is like the most what's what do you
call it? The thin places? So I get that way.
I don't know how you feel about this. When I'm
on stage and I have to be really really really
really present, oh my gosh, absolutely yes, that's one place.
And then if I'm like in the ocean and there's
like a shark or a whale or something like any
(39:54):
time and my adrenaline goes up, I feel like I
have to be present and being that present, I think
is like what you're talking about, totally yeah. Or or
if I have like a really really intense crush, I
think I love a crush, like it just it. I
feel like I don't give a fuck so much of
the time. And you know, I've also had the experience
(40:16):
of of like right before I go on stage, or
even being on stage and being like this is a
hundredth time I've done this. Like I used to get
adrenaline doing this and now I don't um, but like
those first couple of shows or like the last couple
of shows and you're like accidentally totally in your body.
I'm just addicted to that feeling me too, The fully
(40:38):
present like that seems to me like it's like being
in touch with your higher highest self is when you're
that present. Yeah, and when you're like ready to be
perceived also. I think that's what's also been hard about
this year, like realizing how much I will let myself
go mentally and physically if I am not being siege
(41:00):
all the time. Like if I if I put on
my stage costume and I am singing my hardest, I'm like,
this is I am presenting myself? Yeah, like a peacock
totally totally. But then like do peacocks fluff up if
there's no ladies to impress around? Yeah? True? If a
peacock shoots in the woods, the hope does he fluff up? No?
(41:24):
I don't know. If you have no one to fluff
your feathers for, then do you fluff them? And without
the fluffing, who are you? I mean? Maybe if they
had the Internet, Like I have friends who during COVID
were like I put on makeup today for some reason,
but I know about it because they put it online. Yeah,
that is a nice place to dump some sort of
(41:47):
like purpose is like online if I need like a
like a purposeful thing where I'm like, oh, I did
a thing, put it out there because I did this
thing and everyone needs to know. I don't know why
everyone needs to see it, but they do. Yeah. I
love that. It's such a weird feeling because like that
didn't exist when I was really little, Like there was
(42:08):
none of that, and so all of a sudden then
being like, oh, every time I literally take a piss
or change my shoes, I'm gonna tell the whole world
all about it. It's a weird. It's weird life for
living in. My makeup artist was telling me, wait, I'm
gonna funk this up. Have you heard about the icelandic
(42:32):
volcano activity that maybe is sparking a hundred years of
activity of volcanic eruptions. No, Basically, do you think this
is the end of times? I think I've always, like,
more than death or anything, I've always felt like the
end of times we're coming. Um, like, have we arrived?
(42:54):
Are we there? I don't think we're so lucky. I
think we have more years, you know what, and like
I feel like there's gonna be so much destruction and
stuff before the end of times for real. So I
think in my obsession with death has led me into
wanting to lead an extraordinarily exciting life because I'm like,
(43:16):
we maybe come back, or maybe we turn into a mushroom.
So the death pushed me to do a bunch of
crazy ship this lifetime. In the process, I've got addicted
to that feeling of like that adrenaline feeling you're talking about,
but also just being super super presently, having to be
super fucking present. So I like love swimming with sharks
and stuff. I like doing things like maybe it could
(43:38):
kill me, but then when it does and I'm like,
oh that was awesome. Damn I wish I could. I
saw a shark in the water in Melody once and
I like didn't get in the ocean like a year
really obviousit reaction. I'm way more scared of pain than
I am of death. Like, yeah, I'm afraid of discomfort
(44:00):
in pain so much more than enough. But is it
pain necessary to write music? May be the only one
that thinks this. I feel like it's like absolutely necessary
when I'm writing music. Yeah, I think pain is necessary,
and I definitely definitely don't avoid emotional pain as much
as I should. But it's like physical pain. So you
don't have any tattoos. I do. I love tattoos, So
(44:22):
you do. Yeah, I just mean like unpredictable, uncontrolled pain,
like you like a shark bite or even I went
surfreaking a couple of times and I got like crushed
by a wave and like hurt my lower back and
I was just like how for like three months. I
hate that, um, But but I love getting tattoos. It's
like controlled and you're like so many people do it,
(44:44):
you know, like it's it's fine. Yeah, it's totally fine.
People have been doing it since the dawn of Well,
I don't actually know. This is not a fact people
get tattoos, and I think it's been recorded for a
very very very long time totally. So I have a
bunch of kind of wish I hadn't got some of them.
I gotta be honest, really, I think I think if
you only have incredible tattoos, you're a cop, or you're
(45:09):
a serial killer, totally like I think, or you are
a Barrista and you add intelligence yet exactly like I
think bad tattoos are part of life. They are they
tell a story. Yeah, and and also like who gives
a ship Like you're not it's not gonna keep you
(45:29):
up at night at a bad tattoo, Like you're just
gonna be like, oh, this is my bad tattoo. Like
I love those people, you know, Like check out my
friend griff In DAWs. He plays um drums, has a
basketball going into a hoop that's a swish. Oh no,
it's incredible. It's like read like a child to I
(45:50):
have no idea who did it? But that was amazing?
Did he know it was bad going into it? I
honestly have no idea, but I love his just like,
oh yeah, here's my horrible tatoo. Oh I have so many.
I have so many worst. I have narwalls dancing on
my arm. I have. Here's the worst tattoo I have.
It says on my fucking arm. It says chill. I
(46:13):
love that. I hate it. There's nothing about that chills.
What the funk was? I think? What? Like, like, honestly,
the truth for so many, like the answered to so
many questions is chill you know, how is my reasoning
behind it? But like, I don't have that part of
my brain has not yet been activated. My friend Hayley,
(46:37):
who's in Slappy Gaine, Uh this awesome band, has a
tattoo on her inner thigh that's says scratch and sniff.
Oh my god. And she was like so many people
when she was getting in it was like, what about
when you're old? And she was like, especially when I'm old. Oh,
I love I love an older person with shitty tattoo.
(47:00):
Like I once put this guy when I went to sundance,
like way before I ever had like any money. So
I'm walking in this note I find a hundred dollar bill.
I feel like a fucking baller. And this guy is like,
do you need a ride? Shouldn't have taken the ride?
Took the ride. He drops me off of my place
everybody lives he has. He's like, you want to see
all my tattoos. He has covered in tattoos of people
(47:21):
in different sexual positions, just having sex the lover's body. Wow,
he's disgusting. That's interesting gross. Yeah, that's fucking gross. I
am still on the daily hunt for my lower back
tattoo though, like, oh, you don't have one yet. You
could get chill in a different language. Yeah, I should
(47:43):
get chill in a different language, um, like one that
you don't speak, and probably maybe it'll be spelled wrong.
And I have a tattoo gun. Okay wait, I have
like a couple of stupid, stupid questions. If you don't
like one, say pass. If you like one, you can
answer it. Okay. If you had a cult, what would
(48:04):
your manifesto be, um, chill? I kind of though it
would kind of be like chill would live left Loo
or something like. It would just be like, you know,
it wouldn't have any creepy sex or any mandatory anything
other than just like relax. You know. I love that
I would join. I would not know how to chill,
(48:25):
but I would try totally. Well that would I think
it would be for those people like people with trauma
or people with like no chill. It would be like,
no chill, here's how to chill. Oh, you're gonna have
to write the handbook so I can follow it, like
any good cult, give me some step by seven instructions.
But we still have to shave our heads. Damn it
(48:47):
already did that once. It really was not fitting on
my face. Yeah, I shaved your head, yes, and I'm
my head to shape shaped weird. So it was not great,
but I liked the like fuzzy in between part. Maybe
that would be what we do. Yeah, that's cute. I
used to get like shapes and ship in my totally. Okay,
would you like to start a secret conspiracy on this podcast?
(49:12):
Mm hmm. I mean I feel like once it's on
the podcast, it's not secret, but I know that's like
the the double edged sword of having a podcast. The
one this is not my own, but the one conspiracy
that I'm kind of down with is like count trails.
I'm like, yeah, you think about them? Yeah, I'm like
I could see that happening once or twice. I'm not
(49:34):
saying that every time you see them it's it's poison,
but I was like, I can totally see them at
one point in history poisoning neighborhood and being covered up,
Like I can totally see that. Well, I mean, like
the serial killer conversation. I just don't put much past
people because there's such amazing people and then they're fucking
(49:55):
scary people exactly. Okay, So Kim Trails and Okay, last question.
It was, Oh, what's invisible that you wish people could see?
I love this question. Um uh. I wish people could
(50:20):
see when the other person didn't want to be having
small talk, Like I feel like so many small talk
conversations are both people are in hell and they don't
know how to stop it. So I wish there was
like a conversation prompt this just like you know, like
I love bonding with someone at a party over like
I hated here, or I just had the worst conversation,
(50:43):
like like ship talking and gossip I think is really
actually healthy and important. Um. So I wish people could
see like they're like minded person, or like see social
anxiety more or see like yeah, just it would be
easier to match up with people and hanging out. Yeah,
have like have the brethren of hatred of small talk
(51:08):
where you have like shine a light or there's a
button where you're like get me out. I want totally totally. Yeah.
I just wish people could see what color I am
because I feel like I'm turquoise. I have a turquoise heart,
and my aura's turquoise. I wish people could see my
turquoise aura. Yeah, I want to know what my wora
(51:29):
is I I totally see turquoise for you. But you're Leo,
so that's a fire sign. So you might be like
gravitated more towards the oranges and reds, but maybe not.
I don't know. I know somebody that can take your
or a photo though. It's fucking amazing. I'll send it.
It's great. You should have to definitely report back and
(51:50):
tell me what color you are. Okay, well, thank you
so much for just like bullshitting with me. I'm such
a fan, and hopefully I'll meet you in real life
one day. I know I would love that. Thank you
so much, so fun, Oh my god, thank you, and
congratulations on being nominated for a bunch of Grammys and
making awesome music and just being you you. Thank you
(52:14):
all right, keep on creeping on. Thanks everybody for look me.
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