February 12, 2021 • 47 mins
Kesha and St Vincent relive spooky times at Taylor Swift's house in a wide ranging chat spanning from the examination of cults, southern churches, touring with David Byrne, and trying to find inspiration in quarantine.
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
But the time that you passed out and barfed after
going to church, do you think that was Do you
think that was like divine intervention for you? The ironic
thing would be if that was the voice of God. Yes,
I mean to me, it sounds like it is here
(00:30):
today on Kesha and the Creepies. We welcome sat Vincent.
Thank you for being on Kesha and the Creepies My pleasure.
Are you a believer in the supernatural. I haven't had
any like really specific experiences personally with the supernatural, but
I wouldn't necessarily want to go in a haunted house.
(00:53):
I guess I have enough belief in it to be
scared of certain situations. But I think there is like
especially with people who you have a really strong connection to, Like,
you know, there's a friend of mine who I always
know when she's like down, yeah, like a twin flamer,
just a really really close friend. I don't know if
(01:14):
that's intuition or psychic or just human beings really knowing
each other, but I feel like everyone has that ability
to to have that closeness and that intimacy and maybe
even that psychic connection. I've tried to believe in God
a lot of times, and it just doesn't resonate with me.
(01:35):
It just doesn't, um, and not for lack of trying.
So I wouldn't so but maybe that's just the way
that like popular culture would conceive of a god figure.
So I don't. I can't, I can't think of I
don't necessarily think of a you know, oh, if I
make a Christmas list, I'll you know, I'll ask Jesus
for what I want, or like the idea that you
(01:56):
can have a personal relationship. I don't. That doesn't really
resonate with me. So um. But there's so many things
we don't I mean, crazy physics stuff. There's all kinds
of things that we don't know and don't understand. So
I don't necessarily want to say like I don't believe it.
It's just how I how I would couch it, or
how I would conceive of it frame it. Well. I
(02:18):
definitely am like in this very open, I'm just open
to it all. Yeah, and in that I've had some
really weird thoughts. So let's see if I'm psychic. This
will be the test because I'm telling you now, but
I have a feeling they're gonna tell us about like
the people are going to be open about aliens very soon. Yeah,
(02:43):
and I also have a premonition that the Bachelorette Tasia
is pregnant. But you probably don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah,
I know I've seen this season, but I'm gonna I'm
going to check in on that. I just wanted on
record that I said these things before they happened or
where I'm just fucking batic crazy. If I think you're
onto something, I hope they tell us about the aliens soon.
(03:07):
I don't know if you're like an alien galp. It
does seem to me like, well, we are life, we
are intelligent, because sometimes sometimes I like caveat but like
we've gone to other planets. Why would it be so
inconceivable that there wouldn't be life on other planets and
people coming to like not people, but beings of some
sort coming to visit. I think I saw a spaceship like, well,
(03:33):
not just one, I think I saw many one night,
like totally sober, no mushrooms involved here, and it was
like different formations when away came back, this whole thing so,
and then I was talking to Demilovado randomly. Also had
(03:54):
a really weird like a really intimate experience, and like
has learned how to summon the aliens, and so now
I'm on this quest to some of them. So if
you're interested in going out to Joshua Tree and trying
to summoning aliens, but you have to be open hearted
about it. Apparently I've got the chocolates, dude, So listen,
(04:19):
let's go. Oh you need something to look forward to
the new year. I was actually thinking back how we met,
and we met at Taylor Swift's house at the fourth
of July. The thing that I actually most wanted to
ask you from that weekend is did you get pranked
(04:41):
and think you were going to die at some point? Oh?
My god, No I did not, but I heard that
you did in a really intense way. Yes, Like I
like read about serial killers. I don't know, it's a
thing I do. I'm not gonna say I'm a fan
of them because they're work I don't like, but I'm
a fan of reading about them. But so in my mind,
(05:05):
thinking like a serial killer, I was thinking, they're all
these beautiful, famous, talented people at Taylor Swift's house and
there's like the first floor was like supermodels, and the
second floor was actresses, and then I was on the
(05:26):
third floor with high Am and I'm not sure which
where you were at, but I was on the top floor.
So I remember there was like scary noises and knocking,
and we barricaded ourselves in the door and we were
trying to call Taylor and she wouldn't answer, And so
(05:47):
in my mind a serial killer had come into the
house murdered everybody, and we were like the last the
last room. And so then I go in the bathroom
and I all the police, yes, yes, yes, it's all
reading about amazing and so I go in the bathroom
(06:07):
and I'm like, I'm going to be the one. I'm
the I'm going to be the one that gets out
alive and like lives to tell the tale of this
mass murder. And so I'm on the phone with the
police and they're like where are you? And I was
like Taylor Swift's house and they're like, but like where
And at that point, she had like very generously and
(06:31):
amazingly flown us on her airplane. Yeah, we had no
idea where we were. We didn't know. It's not like
we you know, rented a Prius and drove there. No
so I'm like, I think I'm in Maine or Rhode Island.
You're already a chair with the state. And so finally
(06:52):
they had to call it off because I'm so crazy
I'm going to like fight mode that I was ready
to be, like I'm to be the one that scales
down the side of the building and beats the Syria.
Oh my god, I love that was the most logical conclusion,
was like, it's Manson style down there. They've written fuck
(07:15):
the pigs and blood. Yeah, that's the only only possible solution.
I love that. In my mind. I've read so much
about the Manson murders. I used to just kind of
be obsessed with reading, Like I don't know if you've
read Helter Skelter, but that big, thick book about the
Manson murders. I just found it like so interesting, and
(07:38):
cults I find really interesting. And then like also, white
cults always get so murdering. Yeah, it's everything ends up
being a death cult, Like it's a grift and then
it's a and then it's a death cult. You're currently
just signed up to direct that picture of Dorian Gray,
(08:00):
which I remember reading that book in like it was
required reading. But I remember there was a picture and
there's a man that doesn't age, but I don't remember
like the beautiful moral story underneath it all. Yeah, beautiful
is one way to put it. It's it's kind of horror.
(08:20):
There's a beautiful portrait painted of him, and then he
starts doing all of these terrible things, but he stays
the same age, So it's like it's one part of
it would be like how far would you go for beauty? Um?
And then um, the it's kind of a real real
story about shame too. And after he's done all these
monstrous things, he um looks at the portrait and the
(08:44):
portrait changes and what used to be this like beautiful. Um,
I'm sure if that man it's like just this disgusting,
horrible monster and he destroys the painting about it, but anyway,
it's uh. I really think it's like it's scary. It's
a scary scary book. It sounds scary. It sounds scary,
(09:06):
and like the way humanity is scary. Yeah, yeah, we're
pretty scary. I think we're like the scariest. I think
I like to talk about the supernatural on here, but
I also I kind of think people are the scariest. Absolutely.
It's it's crazy that after all of these years and
like what we think of a civilization, we haven't like
(09:29):
managed to get rid of murder, we haven't managed to
get rid of rape. But I mean, it's just like
people have dark impulses within them that have to just
be figured out. I wondered that too, because almost in
every movie up until recently and even still some recently,
(09:50):
but it's almost more taboo there is there will just
be like a casual rape scene or a casual murder scene.
In my mind, I'm like, is this an urge that
a lot of people have, is to murder? I think
that's why I read up on serial killers. I wonder
that or if we make entertainment like that so that
(10:11):
we can like explore those dark impulses in a safe
way and not do horrible, horrible things to other people. Totally,
That's why I watched The Real Housewives. I don't wanna
have drama in my life, but I like it existing
for like thirty minutes a night, and it makes me,
(10:33):
it makes me feel really like, oh yes, I got
the drama and petty bullshit, but it's not in my life.
It's not your life. Thank God. The last one of
those I watched would have been the woman Ramona when
she walks down the catwalk and she has the craziest
expression on her face from the Real Housewives of New York,
probably like ten years ago. I don't know how long
(10:55):
it was ago. See I haven't I haven't seen New York.
I got just an insane moment where this woman, um,
you know, they do a fashion show for someone's fashion line,
and one of the Real housewife gets up and and
does the runway walk, and I mean it's it's like
an alien told her how to do a runway walk.
(11:16):
Her eyes get giant, she gets this absolutely psychotic look
on her face and walks down the runway and it's
just just like, just do a dude, just look it up.
It's kind of wonderful. I am laughing because I do that.
I have this thing I call flipping my eyeballs out
(11:37):
when I like think I'm making a sexy face and
it's so embarrassing. Oh my god, I know exactly what
you're talking about. Like when you're on like our red
carpet or something, you're like, just be cool, and then
I like flip my eyeballs out and try to look cool,
and then my mom won't be like, why do you
have to make that stupid face every time. I'm like,
I don't know, no, And you think like at this
(12:00):
point we would have it down, like we would go, okay,
well this is the face I make when I do this,
and you're like, oh, this is my angle. I still
have no idea, and I somehow do the same thing
where I managed to get a little nervous and those things,
the red carpet stuff is uncomfortable anyway, because it's a
bunch of people yelling at you, and while you're trying
to like screaming lea screaming at you while you're trying
(12:22):
to look poised. I always end up doing this thing
where like one eye, like one eyelid is heavier than
the other, and one eye goes just a little cock eye,
and I look just dour and sour. That at least
sounds cooler. My thing is I jiggle my head like this.
For years, I would watch an interview back and I
(12:43):
would be going this, and I was like, what in
the funk am I doing? I'm totally unaware that I'm
jiggling my head back and forth. But I always just
you seemed like very in control and like you knew
what you were doing with your art and your imagery,
and like I was just even talking to my boyfriend
(13:04):
about it, and we're both big fans of me, like
listen to your music all the time, but it just
seems very intentional and on your terms. You were so
young when you got into the biz. I mean you've
been writing songs and doing this since you were like
fourteen fifteen am I right, Like, yeah, my mom's a songwriter,
(13:25):
and so I've been writing songs to deal with my
anxiety and just I just always felt like an outsider.
So my way to handle that was to try to
like make things funny out of pain, so or like
make a pretty song out of pain, or make like
a funny song out of pain. That was my way
of coping. And then after my first record came out,
(13:49):
it was like all of a sudden, my ass was
hanging out and I never even had the time to
stop and think like do I want this to be like?
And then had like media training, and I just remember
there were like these rules and I was like, Okay,
that's just like what it is. It's so bizarre. What
(14:10):
were the rules because I never got media training and
I always kind of wish I had. But but okay,
So I mean you had like a super massive album
and all of a sudden, what people don't know from
the outside, the machine starts going and you're just kind
of trying to hold on for dear life. And so
you're young. Um, you seem like, to me, like an
(14:33):
incredibly empowered and you know who you are person Like.
My favorite memory of the Taylor party was Ed Sheeran was,
you know, doing his thing. Was very lovely, polite music,
and then you got up and you did this fucking
like the Germs meets iggy pop meets like you turned
(14:57):
into half a spider into this like fucking rad punk
rock thing, and I was just like, yes, yes, thank God, Yes,
that that's what I want to see. I cleared the
room out. I was there. I was fucking there for it.
I was so excited to see insanity, you know, next
to a very lovely Ed Sheeran song. You know, it
(15:20):
was it was like this beautiful private concert of like
the most famous people in the world. And then I'm
gonna be honest, I had a couple of drinks in me,
and it's just I was like, I'm I'm just gonna
start yelling about having crabs crabs you it wasn't a
(15:41):
spider thing. It was a crabs thing, and you did
a kind of a crab walk. It was awesome. I'm
so happy somebody remembers this. I loved it. It was
my probably my favorite part of the entire weekend. And
that's what I was. That's when I was like, oh man,
Cash is so fucking cool. Like I like this girl.
She's sucking down own and like the band just kind
(16:01):
of like trying to hold on for dear life. It
was so cool. It turned into like it quickly devolved
into a complete Shi show after that, you kicked over
the drums. I did, I probably did. It was a
punk show. You turned it into a punk show and
it was so freaking cool. That was like one of
my finer performances. I'm happy there was one person was
(16:24):
still watching. And then you introduced me actually to Toby,
who put me in a ghost story ended up being
a spirit girl, and I love him and did you
how did you meet him? So? Toby is one of
my oldest friends, a good fucking Texas boy. He uh,
(16:44):
we played together in the Polyphonic Spree back in that
was a band that was like twenty people in robes
on stage, and well that's very culty. Yeah, yeah, I
was never it was never clear to me like if
it was really just really or anything. I was just like, cool,
I love these songs. I'm here to play guitar and
(17:05):
have fun. It might have been a cult of personality
in the sense that you know, the the leader was
very charismatic and had a bunch of friends traveling the
world with them, like in that way we'll see from
an outsider, I was like, cool, there's a whole cult
on stage. It just reminded me of going to church
when I was little, Oh did you grow up in
(17:25):
the church? Not like one specific when I went to
Catholic school and then a bunch of different kinds of churches,
because I kept trying to find God in like everything
you know, and there would always be like conditional parts
that I couldn't understand, and like what you were saying,
(17:45):
there are just things that we have not figured out,
Like we're all the same, why do we have to
like break off into different sections and fight each other?
Like all that kind of stuff. For you can't be like,
I'm from the South, so I was just there were
just things that never sat right with me. So I
(18:06):
was in the church, but I was like so conflicted
and would just cry and be like please somebody or
so whatever God or whatever it is, I don't get it.
Like I am not convinced that like dinosaurs didn't exist
and that if someone loves somebody else and they both
(18:31):
happened to have a penis or of vagina, that they're evil.
Like since I was a little kid, I remember just
being like, no, it would just be somebody on stage yelling.
And it's crazy what someone on stage yelling I can
do to a person. You think, like, if they're just
yelling about it, it it must be true. Yeah. And then
(18:52):
there's like buildings dedicated to it and a whole I
mean the organization around it. You're like, well, God, there
must be something to this if this many people bill
are into it. Were you in the church growing up?
I remember kind of the same thing, like trying to
like find meaning. And my family um was either not religious.
My dad was a like defunct Catholic um and my
(19:18):
mom just kind of went to Unitarian church, which is
really sweet Oh that that's like as hippie, nice friendly,
come as you are. It's it's really sweet. I actually
am glad that I like, UM, was introduced to a
lot of kinds of philosophy and theology that way that
was not dogmatic in any way, shape or form. They
(19:39):
had basically no rules, um, which was nice. But I
did go for a brief time to a Methodist church
where everybody was very judgy and mean, and um, I
remember I got confirmed. So I took the confirmation test.
(19:59):
I cheat did on it because I didn't know jack
shit about the Bible. I passed, Thank you, Marcia Hamm.
And I know you have to take a test to
be in a religion. It was like a coming of
age thing. You're like maybe eleven or twelve, and so anyway,
it's like the ceremony where you go in and get
confirmed and they you know, the classes up there and
gets to stand on the stage and they make a
(20:21):
speech whatever, and you're like, I went down with everybody,
we like knelt at the front of the altar. And
then this is reminding me of some of the subject
matter of your show, the supernatural stuff. Um, where I
sat down, I knelt and all of a sudden, I
got so dizzy and this like voice inside of me
(20:43):
was like, this is not for you, and I uh
passed out. My parents took me home. I threw up
and I never went back. Your body revolted, My body
completely revolted. It said, absolutely not. Do you think that
was Do you think that was like divine intervention for you?
The ironic thing would be if that was the voice
(21:05):
of God. Yes, I mean to me, it sounds like
it is. So that's not that's not your path. I
am personally just kind of open. It's one of the
reasons I wanted to talk to interesting people that are
cool and interesting. It's because I find that I make
(21:25):
art sometimes because I want to have like a legacy
or impending death is always on the horizon. It's just
kind of like all caught up in some sort of
like spiritual existential crises. And I don't know, I guess
I just like hearing other people's take on why you
(21:47):
make art. Oh yeah, that everything you're saying ring is
really true? What like, I don't know what else to
do me neither. I don't know what else. I don't
know what else am I supposed to do with my life.
I don't. I I truly have no idea. This is
the only thing that's like, oh that this makes absolute
sense to me. Do this well, You're so good at
(22:08):
it that you absolutely should still keep just doing that.
But for me, I almost like hit this wall where
I was like, for me, I was like why am
I doing it? And then I had to question that,
and then it took me like in quarantine, what did
you find? I'm still figuring it out. I'm That's what
(22:30):
kind of like called me to have this podcast. Almost
is because I started having psychedelic slash supernatural kind of
experience as a result of like psilocybin or anything like
that or was it sometimes but yeah, sometimes sometimes not.
Sometimes I would just be meditating or have really crazy
anxiety with the quarantine all of a sudden, like you said,
(22:53):
that voice spoke to you and you passed out. At
the Methodist church, I had just like a couple of
weeks in here. I just couldn't stop crying. Just the
world and just everything. It was just like so sad.
I was like missing my family and feeling kind of useless.
Because when you're an artist, for me, I need to
(23:17):
live to be inspired to write and when you can't
leave the house, it's a little bit harder to have
those external things. So I think I went internal, but
I just wasn't that inspired. And then all of a sudden,
I started getting messages kind of from I don't know
(23:39):
what it is. I really think it might be my
higher consciousness. I don't like the word god, but it
could be that. It could be the universe, whatever you want.
It could be fucking aliens. I don't know. So I'm
just like I've talked to an alien religious leader, I
talked to a wizard. I'm just talking to all sorts
(24:00):
of people about Well, what you're saying about about being
in quarantine and not being able to like live life
and and not being as inspired as a result. That
makes so much sense. I feel like I was. I've
been in that position over at various points of this quarantine,
and it's just like, yeah, you just have to go
(24:24):
subterranean because there's nothing like out outside. Usually there's like
the chaos of choice, but we don't have choice and
so many things right now, and I mean we're lucky,
like we have a roof of her ahead all of
that stuff. I just had to start going back through
my old notes. You know, I'm always like taking notes
and stuff. And you know, I walked down the street
(24:47):
in New York and there was a guy outside of
a seven eleven singing, um, oh what a wonderful morning,
Oh what a wonderful day. I'm like, that's not going
to happen. It's something like so beautiful and so bizarre,
just completely accidentally, Like that's not going to happen, you know,
(25:08):
with just walking the tin steps to your kitchen and
back to the studio or whatever it is. No, and
so it's hard to kind of find the inspiration at
least for me. Yeah, no, it's harder. It is harder.
I agree. How has your like experience been in this
whole thing. It's been good. I mean good. I mean
(25:31):
when it first started, I had hella anxiety, and then
I got into a period of like, oh maybe I
can do home renovation, and then like many many bad
projects later, like bad wallpapering jobs later, I'm like, Okay,
I should probably just get back to the thing that
I you know, and better at. So it's been peaks
(25:54):
and valleys, honestly, and it feels like some days are
really productive, and you like we get out of bed
with a smile on your face and attack the day.
And other days are just you're nothing. You're like a shell,
and it's hard to motivate to do anything A million percent.
There's certain days where I wake up and I'm like,
(26:17):
I'm going to talk to you, and then I get
excited and I put on a fake lash and I
feel like a person. And then there are days that
I won't get out. I've been wearing this is like
not necessarily a good thing, but I've been wearing men's
long underwear as pants, and it's gotten to the point
(26:38):
where like it's becoming a problem because because I don't
want to take them off. So then I started to
go to the grocery store in the long underwear pants
and we're starting to slow to get to the point
where maybe the long underwear pants need to go in
(26:59):
the track. But they're so comfortable though, But comfort cash
a comfort, I mean, dude, yes, But I feel like
you're a very fabulous person. You always look fucking cool.
So I feel like, and I haven't seen you in
a picture with with a long underwear, but text me
(27:21):
a picture, but I am like certain that you make
them look really cool and intentional and like, I appreciate.
I appreciate your faith in me, and you're very kind.
I was watching last night. I had to tell you
your um short the birthday Party. Oh yeah, is so
(27:43):
it's so funny? Oh? Thanks? Is that sick that I
think it's funny. I I intended it as a comedy
because I don't like horror movies. But I got commissioned somehow.
I still don't know how they asked me, but they did. So.
I'm sure you're giving me money that I don't have
to pay back to make something. Okay, that's not how
(28:04):
it works in the music business. Um. So I did it. Yeah,
and it was so fun. I was just trying to
make like a dark comedy. It was hilarious. Thanks, but yeah,
it was really fun to make. Everyone listening should go
watch it on Hulu. It's called the XX like Anthology. Yeah,
horror Anthology. It's dark, but it's funny and it's like
(28:26):
kind of it's like scary, but not in like, um,
not in like a grotesque kind of way. Um. I'm
not a huge fan of like blood and guts. I
had the weirdest dreams last night. I was watching your
short and then I just was like watching a bunch
of scary things because it's fun to scare myself. But
(28:51):
then I get really scared and have bad dreams. So
I had these dreams of people just getting like blown
up into pieces, and I I'm not a fan of
the violent kind of horror. I. Oh, what was I
going to ask you? Oh, I was going to ask
you if you have performance dreams where like I'm supposed
to be on stage in five minutes and and I
(29:12):
don't have the outfit, the outfit hasn't come yet, or
like that kind of stuff. I have those dreams all
the time. But that must be like your anxiety. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's a recurring one of like just I'm supposed
to be on stage and something I don't have something right,
I don't know the songs. I just I have no like, um,
(29:33):
no shame anymore. Honestly, that's ultimate freedom, no shame, ultimate freedom.
I think so too. I think to be a musician
you kind of have to, like, at least for me,
maybe it's just a mean thing I have to, like
I have to just let myself go over the line
of two stupid. And that's sometimes where like the genius
(29:55):
lads where like it's just too much for sure. Yeah,
you just have to do you just go for it,
Like I'm going to jump up this building. I'm not
sure if I'm gonna land, but I'm not sure if
I'm gonna like land, not in sixty pieces, but I'm
gonna jump. I feel like that's your records. Definitely feel
(30:17):
like you just go into a whole like different planet.
I feel like it's like time travel when I listen
to music. Thank you, Bud, it's uh, it's do you
look back on the work that you've done. Very often,
I don't like once it's done and I've like toward it,
I don't. I don't like go back and listen to stuff.
(30:37):
I think probably for the same reason, like I'm afraid
it won't be good, and I just do like, oh,
I can't deal with it if it's um embarrassing, so
I'll just let it, let it live on its own.
I definitely feel that way. And sometimes when I accidentally
hear my old music, I won't even recognize my voice. WHOA.
(31:01):
Then I'll see like or I'll hear a song I
did when I was seventeen and be like, oh my god,
that's so embarrassing. You were just so incredibly brave to
be so young and having all those eyes on you.
I was like thirty something before anybody cared. So it's
(31:22):
just different, you know. No, I just kind of feel like,
once your first album and then you go on the
tour cycle and it's like tour, make music, put it out, tour,
and you're on that. It's just what you do. It's
what you're conditioned to do. Then all of a sudden,
when it came to a pause this year, it was
the first time I was like, wait, what do I like?
(31:46):
What would the music be like that? If I just
made exactly the kind of music I truly in my
heart like love like I love, And I think that's
kind of given me the like the panic attack, because
I don't think I'll ever live of up to someone
like David Byrne. Worked with David Byrne, went on tour
with him. He's like the crazy, craziest genius. He's wonderful.
(32:10):
I love him so much. I mean it seems like
I would just I think I would be too scared
to even like meet him. That's just so cool. I
remained scared until even after all the touring was over.
I mean, I don't know how I look back on
certain things of like, oh my god, I worked with David,
(32:32):
like that's I wish I could relive it. Honestly, I
wish I could really relive it with less um personal
turmoil and angst and fear, just of like the whole process. Yeah,
and it was so wonderful. It's like there are so few,
you know, there's not that many tours I think I
(32:54):
wish I could do again. But that's when I really
wish I could do again, because it was just joyful.
What do you have tours the you wish you could
do again? In one conflicting things, So in one dimension,
everything happens for a reason, right, So that's like one
possibility in which case everything led to this moment. The good,
(33:16):
the bad, the ugly, the really fucking embarrassing, all of
it led to this moment. But then I also look
back and I'm like, there were some really fun moments,
especially before I injured myself. Injured myself really bad on
stage and what happened. I tore my I tore my
(33:37):
a c L on stage in Dubai, which it was
not the most fun thing. I'll be honest, but I
didn't know I tore my a c L, so I
just played. I finished the show. Was the adrenaline just
so much that you were like, I'm chilling, I'm still dancing. Well, yeah,
but only one leg would work, so every time I
(33:58):
would like lean on the left leg, I would just
fall over. So all of a sudden, TMZ got a
video of me falling over and making fun of me,
and the reviews came in. It's like, what a disappointment,
And I was like, God, damn it, I just finished
a whole, like ninety minutes show on a leg that
is not connected. Yeah, layoff you that that is a feat.
(34:21):
That is a feat. No pun intended to be able
to still perform a ninety minute show with a bomb
mass leg. I mean, that's unbelievable. You deserve a medal
for that ship. I at least don't deserve a bad review.
I wanted to write them a personal note, but I
was like, don't do that, don't get into the pettiness. Like,
(34:42):
but I don't know, I'm more excited about what is
going to happen in the future. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
I mean, well, according to the Wizard, the Earth is
just trying to tell us something like we need to
have a better relationship and like listen to like the
mother Earth more, which that resonated with me. And after
(35:04):
talking to this wizard for two hours, I'm now considering
looking into paganism because it all sounds really lovely. Oh yeah,
for sure. I mean it seems so like just deeply
connected to the Earth and like honoring the cycles and
living sort of in accordance with that. Is that I
might be totally from what little I've looked into it,
that sounds about right. But I definitely am like leaning
(35:27):
more towards the nurturing of the earth and just the
everything is oneness. I don't know. That's like where my
psychedelic trips this quarantine have led me. I feel you.
I mean, I look forward to a time when the
human conversation is more constructive, like more like, oh, I'm
(35:55):
listening to you, and I'm understanding your point of view,
and here's my point of view. And let's allow for
the fact that you know, there's like a multitude of
experiences and twenty people will see the same event twenty
different ways, and like just everybody projecting onto everything. I
(36:16):
just I want there to be like a little bit more, um,
just intelligence and empathy and how we talk to each other.
Chaos is a wonderful distraction from having to just be,
which I'm super guilty of, like loving a good like
(36:37):
getting distracted by whatever. Um. But I've never been one
that enjoys making other people feel bad. That's just not
my drug of choice. UM. So I don't understand that.
And we're also both songwriters, and I feel like to
(37:00):
be a songwriter you must be emotional. So to be emotional,
like you can just tell in your lyrics that like
you feel. And so if you're not like a sociopath
and you're feeling feelings and empathize for other people, that's
a really positive thing and it's good for the world.
(37:24):
It's so it's I think music is like how do
I put this without it sounding like the cheesiest shit ever.
It's like interpreting what the earth is and like the
stars and my whole experience here is like vibrating on,
(37:45):
like the energy level and vibrating on. That's the kind
of music. I mean, completely understand what you're saying, but
like your guitar tones and stuff, like they make me
feel deeply so satisfied. Oh thanks, O there, like you
have the not to but you have the sexiest guitar tones.
(38:07):
Thank you. Thanks, They're so good. I don't know how
you find them. I don't who knows. One of those
crazy mysteries about guitar is kind of like the softer
(38:28):
you play, the more tone you get in certain ways,
Like I don't know, I know if I haven't sung
for a couple of days, like I'm not like in
my body in a certain way. You know, you just
like sing and it's it's like from your stomach and
you're like, oh okay, I'm okay now, Yes, it's soothing
to me. Like when I'm eating something I really like,
(38:52):
I'll just start singing and not even know I'm doing it. Oh. Really,
Like if I'm just really enjoying myself and very strange
different ways, I'll just be I'll start humming if I'm
really happy. That's what a wonderful like expression. I have
(39:13):
a question about the new stuff that you're making, Like
what is what is the stuff that you're like, Ah,
this is my fucking vibration. I want to run and
do this. I'm so excited to know what that is.
Because I like, I feel like I got a taste
of that like punk spirit. It's almost this amalgamation of
(39:35):
all the kinds of music I like, which would be
like punk rock and country because I'm from the South.
And then just like I love the Beach Boys and
I just love like super pop songs, and so it's
just and I love David Byrnon's Talking Heads and also
(39:56):
David Bowie and Prince and I feel like we have
some of the similar people we look up to, at
least from what I read about you. Yeah, I mean
that's everybody. You know what you mentioned country and I
kind of like a showed country music when I was
living in Texas and I was like, oh this isn't
that's this corny or whatever. I've I don't know why
(40:17):
I was such an idiot, but I have gone back
and like the songwriting in country music. It's just everything
like it's an air tight it's perfect song. And you
would kill I mean all the influences that you're talking about,
combining them all like you would kill it. I just
(40:40):
want to try it. I'm scared. But if it sucks,
then you just don't put it out right, Yeah, you
don't put it out, and also like, it's good that
you're scared. It's good that you aren't sure what's going
to happen. I feel like I do weirdly well under pressure.
I'm not sure if it's just me or other people
too too, you know, I think some people, But do
(41:01):
you were better under pressure? No? I think the answer
is like I can sort of do it, but it's
not I usually I'm like pretty methodical. I guess so boring.
Oh god, I need Oh no, I that's not boring.
That's great, I like need chaos. That's terribly unhealthy. Oh no,
it's just like it's just a way. I guess. I
just like like being scared. I think that's like one
(41:22):
of the things I've learned about myself as all, like
watch a terrifying movie and be like why did I
do that? Have crazy dreams, be like, well you did
it to yourself fit But okay, I have like some
really like rapid fire questions. So if you don't like
any of them, just you can pass if And when
you're a ghost, if you become a ghost, how will
(41:43):
people know it's you? Like, what will be your style
of hunting? What's your thing you would do I would
probably move people's keys. Oh that's so evil. Oh, it's
like it's more evil than you know, like writing something
in blood on the wall. Just they think they'd put
their keys when place and I just I hied him
next to the zip blocks. That's so, that's so dark.
(42:06):
These dark impulses within the human spirit cannot be contained.
I think I'm gonna pull people's socks down in their
shoe every time they're wearing them. Oh that just Oh
that's great, Okay, great. Who would you haunt? See? This
is tricky because like I am doing like a malicious thing,
(42:26):
So I have to haunt somebody who I didn't like
to hide their keys. I mean, it's not really malicious.
It's a pretty friendly haunting. It's annoying, let's say, annoying,
bordering on egregious. Um, I might haunt my sister. She's
always losing her keys. That's good, watch out, sister. Would
(42:47):
you prefer to be abducted by the aliens that I
swear to God are coming soon or spend a night
alone in a truly haunted house? I mean, I think
it's probably wrong to assume that like and in life
force would have a bad intent to humanity, like maybe
they just like, you know, want to give you a
(43:08):
massage and you know, feed you alien food. But I
would say the Haunted House because I'm you know a
lot of people like would want to go to the
moon or would want to go to Mars, Like, I'm fine,
I don't want to that's so weird. You're like my
boyfriend he like is like, I don't want to go.
I don't know why I don't want There's there's I
(43:29):
think you can divide the world into people who like
I would want to go and people who wouldn't, and
I'm like, not good, it's fine here. So I think
that's why that's why I would choose the Haunted House.
That's I think. I'm just really impulsive and I would
like get on a spaceship and then halfway to wherever,
I'd be like, oh no, where what did I do?
(43:51):
I think that you're brave and cool and that's why
you would do it an adventurous in a way that
I'm not. That's not true. You're quite brave and adventurous.
We adventured to Taylor Swift's house together. That was fun.
That was a fun adventure. Oh do you believe in reincarnation.
That's like a question the answers. I don't know. That's
(44:14):
always the best answer for everything. I mean, not no,
not no. But I don't spend a lot of time
thinking like, oh, well, that's cool that I didn't do it.
Now in my next life, I'll get to it, Like
I don't. I don't know. I believe in reincarnation in
the sense that like work, work, carbon and we'll turn
into carbon in the life. You know, this sort of
(44:36):
chemistry aspect of it makes that makes perfect sense. Um,
But I don't speak Yeah, and I believe that it's
entirely possible in a sort of um sole form. But
I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
That's fair. I spend all my time things. See this
is really cool. Don't do what I do. They thank
(45:00):
you for coming on my podcast. I'm super excited to
see the movie You're in. My best friend Carrie Brownsie
and I made a movie called The Nowhere In that
is coming out this year, and it's a meta documentary
about me. I play myself and also you know St.
Vincent and then I'm a little too boring to make
(45:21):
a documentary about She tells me to spice things up
a little bit, and that goes horribly wrong, and it
turns into sort of like a meta horror documentary that
sounds amazing and fun. I can't wait to scare myself
and watch it. Follow me on Instagram. UM, I probably
put up a picture like once every two and a
(45:42):
half to three weeks, so you'll really be in for
a treat. Follow me on Twitter. I'm gonna be saying
a lot of problematic things, so check me out there. Um.
I'll be starting my TikTok page pretty soon with some
post modern choreography, which I hope we'll go viral. Yeah,
and thank you so much for listening, and thank you
(46:03):
so much for being on here. I really appreciate it.
So good to see you. It's great to see you too.
I'm really glad you asked me to do it, and
I appreciate you taking the time. Oh my god, same,
all right, keep on creeping on creeps, all right, see
us m
But the time that you passed out and barfed after
going to church, do you think that was Do you
think that was like divine intervention for you? The ironic
thing would be if that was the voice of God. Yes,
I mean to me, it sounds like it is here
(00:30):
today on Kesha and the Creepies. We welcome sat Vincent.
Thank you for being on Kesha and the Creepies My pleasure.
Are you a believer in the supernatural. I haven't had
any like really specific experiences personally with the supernatural, but
I wouldn't necessarily want to go in a haunted house.
(00:53):
I guess I have enough belief in it to be
scared of certain situations. But I think there is like
especially with people who you have a really strong connection to, Like,
you know, there's a friend of mine who I always
know when she's like down, yeah, like a twin flamer,
just a really really close friend. I don't know if
(01:14):
that's intuition or psychic or just human beings really knowing
each other, but I feel like everyone has that ability
to to have that closeness and that intimacy and maybe
even that psychic connection. I've tried to believe in God
a lot of times, and it just doesn't resonate with me.
(01:35):
It just doesn't, um, and not for lack of trying.
So I wouldn't so but maybe that's just the way
that like popular culture would conceive of a god figure.
So I don't. I can't, I can't think of I
don't necessarily think of a you know, oh, if I
make a Christmas list, I'll you know, I'll ask Jesus
for what I want, or like the idea that you
(01:56):
can have a personal relationship. I don't. That doesn't really
resonate with me. So um. But there's so many things
we don't I mean, crazy physics stuff. There's all kinds
of things that we don't know and don't understand. So
I don't necessarily want to say like I don't believe it.
It's just how I how I would couch it, or
how I would conceive of it frame it. Well. I
(02:18):
definitely am like in this very open, I'm just open
to it all. Yeah, and in that I've had some
really weird thoughts. So let's see if I'm psychic. This
will be the test because I'm telling you now, but
I have a feeling they're gonna tell us about like
the people are going to be open about aliens very soon. Yeah,
(02:43):
and I also have a premonition that the Bachelorette Tasia
is pregnant. But you probably don't know what I'm talking about. Yeah,
I know I've seen this season, but I'm gonna I'm
going to check in on that. I just wanted on
record that I said these things before they happened or
where I'm just fucking batic crazy. If I think you're
onto something, I hope they tell us about the aliens soon.
(03:07):
I don't know if you're like an alien galp. It
does seem to me like, well, we are life, we
are intelligent, because sometimes sometimes I like caveat but like
we've gone to other planets. Why would it be so
inconceivable that there wouldn't be life on other planets and
people coming to like not people, but beings of some
sort coming to visit. I think I saw a spaceship like, well,
(03:33):
not just one, I think I saw many one night,
like totally sober, no mushrooms involved here, and it was
like different formations when away came back, this whole thing so,
and then I was talking to Demilovado randomly. Also had
(03:54):
a really weird like a really intimate experience, and like
has learned how to summon the aliens, and so now
I'm on this quest to some of them. So if
you're interested in going out to Joshua Tree and trying
to summoning aliens, but you have to be open hearted
about it. Apparently I've got the chocolates, dude, So listen,
(04:19):
let's go. Oh you need something to look forward to
the new year. I was actually thinking back how we met,
and we met at Taylor Swift's house at the fourth
of July. The thing that I actually most wanted to
ask you from that weekend is did you get pranked
(04:41):
and think you were going to die at some point? Oh?
My god, No I did not, but I heard that
you did in a really intense way. Yes, Like I
like read about serial killers. I don't know, it's a
thing I do. I'm not gonna say I'm a fan
of them because they're work I don't like, but I'm
a fan of reading about them. But so in my mind,
(05:05):
thinking like a serial killer, I was thinking, they're all
these beautiful, famous, talented people at Taylor Swift's house and
there's like the first floor was like supermodels, and the
second floor was actresses, and then I was on the
(05:26):
third floor with high Am and I'm not sure which
where you were at, but I was on the top floor.
So I remember there was like scary noises and knocking,
and we barricaded ourselves in the door and we were
trying to call Taylor and she wouldn't answer, And so
(05:47):
in my mind a serial killer had come into the
house murdered everybody, and we were like the last the
last room. And so then I go in the bathroom
and I all the police, yes, yes, yes, it's all
reading about amazing and so I go in the bathroom
(06:07):
and I'm like, I'm going to be the one. I'm
the I'm going to be the one that gets out
alive and like lives to tell the tale of this
mass murder. And so I'm on the phone with the
police and they're like where are you? And I was
like Taylor Swift's house and they're like, but like where
And at that point, she had like very generously and
(06:31):
amazingly flown us on her airplane. Yeah, we had no
idea where we were. We didn't know. It's not like
we you know, rented a Prius and drove there. No
so I'm like, I think I'm in Maine or Rhode Island.
You're already a chair with the state. And so finally
(06:52):
they had to call it off because I'm so crazy
I'm going to like fight mode that I was ready
to be, like I'm to be the one that scales
down the side of the building and beats the Syria.
Oh my god, I love that was the most logical conclusion,
was like, it's Manson style down there. They've written fuck
(07:15):
the pigs and blood. Yeah, that's the only only possible solution.
I love that. In my mind. I've read so much
about the Manson murders. I used to just kind of
be obsessed with reading, Like I don't know if you've
read Helter Skelter, but that big, thick book about the
Manson murders. I just found it like so interesting, and
(07:38):
cults I find really interesting. And then like also, white
cults always get so murdering. Yeah, it's everything ends up
being a death cult, Like it's a grift and then
it's a and then it's a death cult. You're currently
just signed up to direct that picture of Dorian Gray,
(08:00):
which I remember reading that book in like it was
required reading. But I remember there was a picture and
there's a man that doesn't age, but I don't remember
like the beautiful moral story underneath it all. Yeah, beautiful
is one way to put it. It's it's kind of horror.
(08:20):
There's a beautiful portrait painted of him, and then he
starts doing all of these terrible things, but he stays
the same age, So it's like it's one part of
it would be like how far would you go for beauty? Um?
And then um, the it's kind of a real real
story about shame too. And after he's done all these
monstrous things, he um looks at the portrait and the
(08:44):
portrait changes and what used to be this like beautiful. Um,
I'm sure if that man it's like just this disgusting,
horrible monster and he destroys the painting about it, but anyway,
it's uh. I really think it's like it's scary. It's
a scary scary book. It sounds scary. It sounds scary,
(09:06):
and like the way humanity is scary. Yeah, yeah, we're
pretty scary. I think we're like the scariest. I think
I like to talk about the supernatural on here, but
I also I kind of think people are the scariest. Absolutely.
It's it's crazy that after all of these years and
like what we think of a civilization, we haven't like
(09:29):
managed to get rid of murder, we haven't managed to
get rid of rape. But I mean, it's just like
people have dark impulses within them that have to just
be figured out. I wondered that too, because almost in
every movie up until recently and even still some recently,
(09:50):
but it's almost more taboo there is there will just
be like a casual rape scene or a casual murder scene.
In my mind, I'm like, is this an urge that
a lot of people have, is to murder? I think
that's why I read up on serial killers. I wonder
that or if we make entertainment like that so that
(10:11):
we can like explore those dark impulses in a safe
way and not do horrible, horrible things to other people. Totally,
That's why I watched The Real Housewives. I don't wanna
have drama in my life, but I like it existing
for like thirty minutes a night, and it makes me,
(10:33):
it makes me feel really like, oh yes, I got
the drama and petty bullshit, but it's not in my life.
It's not your life. Thank God. The last one of
those I watched would have been the woman Ramona when
she walks down the catwalk and she has the craziest
expression on her face from the Real Housewives of New York,
probably like ten years ago. I don't know how long
(10:55):
it was ago. See I haven't I haven't seen New York.
I got just an insane moment where this woman, um,
you know, they do a fashion show for someone's fashion line,
and one of the Real housewife gets up and and
does the runway walk, and I mean it's it's like
an alien told her how to do a runway walk.
(11:16):
Her eyes get giant, she gets this absolutely psychotic look
on her face and walks down the runway and it's
just just like, just do a dude, just look it up.
It's kind of wonderful. I am laughing because I do that.
I have this thing I call flipping my eyeballs out
(11:37):
when I like think I'm making a sexy face and
it's so embarrassing. Oh my god, I know exactly what
you're talking about. Like when you're on like our red
carpet or something, you're like, just be cool, and then
I like flip my eyeballs out and try to look cool,
and then my mom won't be like, why do you
have to make that stupid face every time. I'm like,
I don't know, no, And you think like at this
(12:00):
point we would have it down, like we would go, okay,
well this is the face I make when I do this,
and you're like, oh, this is my angle. I still
have no idea, and I somehow do the same thing
where I managed to get a little nervous and those things,
the red carpet stuff is uncomfortable anyway, because it's a
bunch of people yelling at you, and while you're trying
to like screaming lea screaming at you while you're trying
(12:22):
to look poised. I always end up doing this thing
where like one eye, like one eyelid is heavier than
the other, and one eye goes just a little cock eye,
and I look just dour and sour. That at least
sounds cooler. My thing is I jiggle my head like this.
For years, I would watch an interview back and I
(12:43):
would be going this, and I was like, what in
the funk am I doing? I'm totally unaware that I'm
jiggling my head back and forth. But I always just
you seemed like very in control and like you knew
what you were doing with your art and your imagery,
and like I was just even talking to my boyfriend
(13:04):
about it, and we're both big fans of me, like
listen to your music all the time, but it just
seems very intentional and on your terms. You were so
young when you got into the biz. I mean you've
been writing songs and doing this since you were like
fourteen fifteen am I right, Like, yeah, my mom's a songwriter,
(13:25):
and so I've been writing songs to deal with my
anxiety and just I just always felt like an outsider.
So my way to handle that was to try to
like make things funny out of pain, so or like
make a pretty song out of pain, or make like
a funny song out of pain. That was my way
of coping. And then after my first record came out,
(13:49):
it was like all of a sudden, my ass was
hanging out and I never even had the time to
stop and think like do I want this to be like?
And then had like media training, and I just remember
there were like these rules and I was like, Okay,
that's just like what it is. It's so bizarre. What
(14:10):
were the rules because I never got media training and
I always kind of wish I had. But but okay,
So I mean you had like a super massive album
and all of a sudden, what people don't know from
the outside, the machine starts going and you're just kind
of trying to hold on for dear life. And so
you're young. Um, you seem like, to me, like an
(14:33):
incredibly empowered and you know who you are person Like.
My favorite memory of the Taylor party was Ed Sheeran was,
you know, doing his thing. Was very lovely, polite music,
and then you got up and you did this fucking
like the Germs meets iggy pop meets like you turned
(14:57):
into half a spider into this like fucking rad punk
rock thing, and I was just like, yes, yes, thank God, Yes,
that that's what I want to see. I cleared the
room out. I was there. I was fucking there for it.
I was so excited to see insanity, you know, next
to a very lovely Ed Sheeran song. You know, it
(15:20):
was it was like this beautiful private concert of like
the most famous people in the world. And then I'm
gonna be honest, I had a couple of drinks in me,
and it's just I was like, I'm I'm just gonna
start yelling about having crabs crabs you it wasn't a
(15:41):
spider thing. It was a crabs thing, and you did
a kind of a crab walk. It was awesome. I'm
so happy somebody remembers this. I loved it. It was
my probably my favorite part of the entire weekend. And
that's what I was. That's when I was like, oh man,
Cash is so fucking cool. Like I like this girl.
She's sucking down own and like the band just kind
(16:01):
of like trying to hold on for dear life. It
was so cool. It turned into like it quickly devolved
into a complete Shi show after that, you kicked over
the drums. I did, I probably did. It was a
punk show. You turned it into a punk show and
it was so freaking cool. That was like one of
my finer performances. I'm happy there was one person was
(16:24):
still watching. And then you introduced me actually to Toby,
who put me in a ghost story ended up being
a spirit girl, and I love him and did you
how did you meet him? So? Toby is one of
my oldest friends, a good fucking Texas boy. He uh,
(16:44):
we played together in the Polyphonic Spree back in that
was a band that was like twenty people in robes
on stage, and well that's very culty. Yeah, yeah, I
was never it was never clear to me like if
it was really just really or anything. I was just like, cool,
I love these songs. I'm here to play guitar and
(17:05):
have fun. It might have been a cult of personality
in the sense that you know, the the leader was
very charismatic and had a bunch of friends traveling the
world with them, like in that way we'll see from
an outsider, I was like, cool, there's a whole cult
on stage. It just reminded me of going to church
when I was little, Oh did you grow up in
(17:25):
the church? Not like one specific when I went to
Catholic school and then a bunch of different kinds of churches,
because I kept trying to find God in like everything
you know, and there would always be like conditional parts
that I couldn't understand, and like what you were saying,
(17:45):
there are just things that we have not figured out,
Like we're all the same, why do we have to
like break off into different sections and fight each other?
Like all that kind of stuff. For you can't be like,
I'm from the South, so I was just there were
just things that never sat right with me. So I
(18:06):
was in the church, but I was like so conflicted
and would just cry and be like please somebody or
so whatever God or whatever it is, I don't get it.
Like I am not convinced that like dinosaurs didn't exist
and that if someone loves somebody else and they both
(18:31):
happened to have a penis or of vagina, that they're evil.
Like since I was a little kid, I remember just
being like, no, it would just be somebody on stage yelling.
And it's crazy what someone on stage yelling I can
do to a person. You think, like, if they're just
yelling about it, it it must be true. Yeah. And then
(18:52):
there's like buildings dedicated to it and a whole I
mean the organization around it. You're like, well, God, there
must be something to this if this many people bill
are into it. Were you in the church growing up?
I remember kind of the same thing, like trying to
like find meaning. And my family um was either not religious.
My dad was a like defunct Catholic um and my
(19:18):
mom just kind of went to Unitarian church, which is
really sweet Oh that that's like as hippie, nice friendly,
come as you are. It's it's really sweet. I actually
am glad that I like, UM, was introduced to a
lot of kinds of philosophy and theology that way that
was not dogmatic in any way, shape or form. They
(19:39):
had basically no rules, um, which was nice. But I
did go for a brief time to a Methodist church
where everybody was very judgy and mean, and um, I
remember I got confirmed. So I took the confirmation test.
(19:59):
I cheat did on it because I didn't know jack
shit about the Bible. I passed, Thank you, Marcia Hamm.
And I know you have to take a test to
be in a religion. It was like a coming of
age thing. You're like maybe eleven or twelve, and so anyway,
it's like the ceremony where you go in and get
confirmed and they you know, the classes up there and
gets to stand on the stage and they make a
(20:21):
speech whatever, and you're like, I went down with everybody,
we like knelt at the front of the altar. And
then this is reminding me of some of the subject
matter of your show, the supernatural stuff. Um, where I
sat down, I knelt and all of a sudden, I
got so dizzy and this like voice inside of me
(20:43):
was like, this is not for you, and I uh
passed out. My parents took me home. I threw up
and I never went back. Your body revolted, My body
completely revolted. It said, absolutely not. Do you think that
was Do you think that was like divine intervention for you?
The ironic thing would be if that was the voice
(21:05):
of God. Yes, I mean to me, it sounds like
it is. So that's not that's not your path. I
am personally just kind of open. It's one of the
reasons I wanted to talk to interesting people that are
cool and interesting. It's because I find that I make
(21:25):
art sometimes because I want to have like a legacy
or impending death is always on the horizon. It's just
kind of like all caught up in some sort of
like spiritual existential crises. And I don't know, I guess
I just like hearing other people's take on why you
(21:47):
make art. Oh yeah, that everything you're saying ring is
really true? What like, I don't know what else to
do me neither. I don't know what else. I don't
know what else am I supposed to do with my life.
I don't. I I truly have no idea. This is
the only thing that's like, oh that this makes absolute
sense to me. Do this well, You're so good at
(22:08):
it that you absolutely should still keep just doing that.
But for me, I almost like hit this wall where
I was like, for me, I was like why am
I doing it? And then I had to question that,
and then it took me like in quarantine, what did
you find? I'm still figuring it out. I'm That's what
(22:30):
kind of like called me to have this podcast. Almost
is because I started having psychedelic slash supernatural kind of
experience as a result of like psilocybin or anything like
that or was it sometimes but yeah, sometimes sometimes not.
Sometimes I would just be meditating or have really crazy
anxiety with the quarantine all of a sudden, like you said,
(22:53):
that voice spoke to you and you passed out. At
the Methodist church, I had just like a couple of
weeks in here. I just couldn't stop crying. Just the
world and just everything. It was just like so sad.
I was like missing my family and feeling kind of useless.
Because when you're an artist, for me, I need to
(23:17):
live to be inspired to write and when you can't
leave the house, it's a little bit harder to have
those external things. So I think I went internal, but
I just wasn't that inspired. And then all of a sudden,
I started getting messages kind of from I don't know
(23:39):
what it is. I really think it might be my
higher consciousness. I don't like the word god, but it
could be that. It could be the universe, whatever you want.
It could be fucking aliens. I don't know. So I'm
just like I've talked to an alien religious leader, I
talked to a wizard. I'm just talking to all sorts
(24:00):
of people about Well, what you're saying about about being
in quarantine and not being able to like live life
and and not being as inspired as a result. That
makes so much sense. I feel like I was. I've
been in that position over at various points of this quarantine,
and it's just like, yeah, you just have to go
(24:24):
subterranean because there's nothing like out outside. Usually there's like
the chaos of choice, but we don't have choice and
so many things right now, and I mean we're lucky,
like we have a roof of her ahead all of
that stuff. I just had to start going back through
my old notes. You know, I'm always like taking notes
and stuff. And you know, I walked down the street
(24:47):
in New York and there was a guy outside of
a seven eleven singing, um, oh what a wonderful morning,
Oh what a wonderful day. I'm like, that's not going
to happen. It's something like so beautiful and so bizarre,
just completely accidentally, Like that's not going to happen, you know,
(25:08):
with just walking the tin steps to your kitchen and
back to the studio or whatever it is. No, and
so it's hard to kind of find the inspiration at
least for me. Yeah, no, it's harder. It is harder.
I agree. How has your like experience been in this
whole thing. It's been good. I mean good. I mean
(25:31):
when it first started, I had hella anxiety, and then
I got into a period of like, oh maybe I
can do home renovation, and then like many many bad
projects later, like bad wallpapering jobs later, I'm like, Okay,
I should probably just get back to the thing that
I you know, and better at. So it's been peaks
(25:54):
and valleys, honestly, and it feels like some days are
really productive, and you like we get out of bed
with a smile on your face and attack the day.
And other days are just you're nothing. You're like a shell,
and it's hard to motivate to do anything A million percent.
There's certain days where I wake up and I'm like,
(26:17):
I'm going to talk to you, and then I get
excited and I put on a fake lash and I
feel like a person. And then there are days that
I won't get out. I've been wearing this is like
not necessarily a good thing, but I've been wearing men's
long underwear as pants, and it's gotten to the point
(26:38):
where like it's becoming a problem because because I don't
want to take them off. So then I started to
go to the grocery store in the long underwear pants
and we're starting to slow to get to the point
where maybe the long underwear pants need to go in
(26:59):
the track. But they're so comfortable though, But comfort cash
a comfort, I mean, dude, yes, But I feel like
you're a very fabulous person. You always look fucking cool.
So I feel like, and I haven't seen you in
a picture with with a long underwear, but text me
(27:21):
a picture, but I am like certain that you make
them look really cool and intentional and like, I appreciate.
I appreciate your faith in me, and you're very kind.
I was watching last night. I had to tell you
your um short the birthday Party. Oh yeah, is so
(27:43):
it's so funny? Oh? Thanks? Is that sick that I
think it's funny. I I intended it as a comedy
because I don't like horror movies. But I got commissioned somehow.
I still don't know how they asked me, but they did. So.
I'm sure you're giving me money that I don't have
to pay back to make something. Okay, that's not how
(28:04):
it works in the music business. Um. So I did it. Yeah,
and it was so fun. I was just trying to
make like a dark comedy. It was hilarious. Thanks, but yeah,
it was really fun to make. Everyone listening should go
watch it on Hulu. It's called the XX like Anthology. Yeah,
horror Anthology. It's dark, but it's funny and it's like
(28:26):
kind of it's like scary, but not in like, um,
not in like a grotesque kind of way. Um. I'm
not a huge fan of like blood and guts. I
had the weirdest dreams last night. I was watching your
short and then I just was like watching a bunch
of scary things because it's fun to scare myself. But
(28:51):
then I get really scared and have bad dreams. So
I had these dreams of people just getting like blown
up into pieces, and I I'm not a fan of
the violent kind of horror. I. Oh, what was I
going to ask you? Oh, I was going to ask
you if you have performance dreams where like I'm supposed
to be on stage in five minutes and and I
(29:12):
don't have the outfit, the outfit hasn't come yet, or
like that kind of stuff. I have those dreams all
the time. But that must be like your anxiety. Yeah, yeah,
that's that's a recurring one of like just I'm supposed
to be on stage and something I don't have something right,
I don't know the songs. I just I have no like, um,
(29:33):
no shame anymore. Honestly, that's ultimate freedom, no shame, ultimate freedom.
I think so too. I think to be a musician
you kind of have to, like, at least for me,
maybe it's just a mean thing I have to, like
I have to just let myself go over the line
of two stupid. And that's sometimes where like the genius
(29:55):
lads where like it's just too much for sure. Yeah,
you just have to do you just go for it,
Like I'm going to jump up this building. I'm not
sure if I'm gonna land, but I'm not sure if
I'm gonna like land, not in sixty pieces, but I'm
gonna jump. I feel like that's your records. Definitely feel
(30:17):
like you just go into a whole like different planet.
I feel like it's like time travel when I listen
to music. Thank you, Bud, it's uh, it's do you
look back on the work that you've done. Very often,
I don't like once it's done and I've like toward it,
I don't. I don't like go back and listen to stuff.
(30:37):
I think probably for the same reason, like I'm afraid
it won't be good, and I just do like, oh,
I can't deal with it if it's um embarrassing, so
I'll just let it, let it live on its own.
I definitely feel that way. And sometimes when I accidentally
hear my old music, I won't even recognize my voice. WHOA.
(31:01):
Then I'll see like or I'll hear a song I
did when I was seventeen and be like, oh my god,
that's so embarrassing. You were just so incredibly brave to
be so young and having all those eyes on you.
I was like thirty something before anybody cared. So it's
(31:22):
just different, you know. No, I just kind of feel like,
once your first album and then you go on the
tour cycle and it's like tour, make music, put it out, tour,
and you're on that. It's just what you do. It's
what you're conditioned to do. Then all of a sudden,
when it came to a pause this year, it was
the first time I was like, wait, what do I like?
(31:46):
What would the music be like that? If I just
made exactly the kind of music I truly in my
heart like love like I love, And I think that's
kind of given me the like the panic attack, because
I don't think I'll ever live of up to someone
like David Byrne. Worked with David Byrne, went on tour
with him. He's like the crazy, craziest genius. He's wonderful.
(32:10):
I love him so much. I mean it seems like
I would just I think I would be too scared
to even like meet him. That's just so cool. I
remained scared until even after all the touring was over.
I mean, I don't know how I look back on
certain things of like, oh my god, I worked with David,
(32:32):
like that's I wish I could relive it. Honestly, I
wish I could really relive it with less um personal
turmoil and angst and fear, just of like the whole process. Yeah,
and it was so wonderful. It's like there are so few,
you know, there's not that many tours I think I
(32:54):
wish I could do again. But that's when I really
wish I could do again, because it was just joyful.
What do you have tours the you wish you could
do again? In one conflicting things, So in one dimension,
everything happens for a reason, right, So that's like one
possibility in which case everything led to this moment. The good,
(33:16):
the bad, the ugly, the really fucking embarrassing, all of
it led to this moment. But then I also look
back and I'm like, there were some really fun moments,
especially before I injured myself. Injured myself really bad on
stage and what happened. I tore my I tore my
(33:37):
a c L on stage in Dubai, which it was
not the most fun thing. I'll be honest, but I
didn't know I tore my a c L, so I
just played. I finished the show. Was the adrenaline just
so much that you were like, I'm chilling, I'm still dancing. Well, yeah,
but only one leg would work, so every time I
(33:58):
would like lean on the left leg, I would just
fall over. So all of a sudden, TMZ got a
video of me falling over and making fun of me,
and the reviews came in. It's like, what a disappointment,
And I was like, God, damn it, I just finished
a whole, like ninety minutes show on a leg that
is not connected. Yeah, layoff you that that is a feat.
(34:21):
That is a feat. No pun intended to be able
to still perform a ninety minute show with a bomb
mass leg. I mean, that's unbelievable. You deserve a medal
for that ship. I at least don't deserve a bad review.
I wanted to write them a personal note, but I
was like, don't do that, don't get into the pettiness. Like,
(34:42):
but I don't know, I'm more excited about what is
going to happen in the future. Yeah, for sure, for sure.
I mean, well, according to the Wizard, the Earth is
just trying to tell us something like we need to
have a better relationship and like listen to like the
mother Earth more, which that resonated with me. And after
(35:04):
talking to this wizard for two hours, I'm now considering
looking into paganism because it all sounds really lovely. Oh yeah,
for sure. I mean it seems so like just deeply
connected to the Earth and like honoring the cycles and
living sort of in accordance with that. Is that I
might be totally from what little I've looked into it,
that sounds about right. But I definitely am like leaning
(35:27):
more towards the nurturing of the earth and just the
everything is oneness. I don't know. That's like where my
psychedelic trips this quarantine have led me. I feel you.
I mean, I look forward to a time when the
human conversation is more constructive, like more like, oh, I'm
(35:55):
listening to you, and I'm understanding your point of view,
and here's my point of view. And let's allow for
the fact that you know, there's like a multitude of
experiences and twenty people will see the same event twenty
different ways, and like just everybody projecting onto everything. I
(36:16):
just I want there to be like a little bit more, um,
just intelligence and empathy and how we talk to each other.
Chaos is a wonderful distraction from having to just be,
which I'm super guilty of, like loving a good like
(36:37):
getting distracted by whatever. Um. But I've never been one
that enjoys making other people feel bad. That's just not
my drug of choice. UM. So I don't understand that.
And we're also both songwriters, and I feel like to
(37:00):
be a songwriter you must be emotional. So to be emotional,
like you can just tell in your lyrics that like
you feel. And so if you're not like a sociopath
and you're feeling feelings and empathize for other people, that's
a really positive thing and it's good for the world.
(37:24):
It's so it's I think music is like how do
I put this without it sounding like the cheesiest shit ever.
It's like interpreting what the earth is and like the
stars and my whole experience here is like vibrating on,
(37:45):
like the energy level and vibrating on. That's the kind
of music. I mean, completely understand what you're saying, but
like your guitar tones and stuff, like they make me
feel deeply so satisfied. Oh thanks, O there, like you
have the not to but you have the sexiest guitar tones.
(38:07):
Thank you. Thanks, They're so good. I don't know how
you find them. I don't who knows. One of those
crazy mysteries about guitar is kind of like the softer
(38:28):
you play, the more tone you get in certain ways,
Like I don't know, I know if I haven't sung
for a couple of days, like I'm not like in
my body in a certain way. You know, you just
like sing and it's it's like from your stomach and
you're like, oh okay, I'm okay now, Yes, it's soothing
to me. Like when I'm eating something I really like,
(38:52):
I'll just start singing and not even know I'm doing it. Oh. Really,
Like if I'm just really enjoying myself and very strange
different ways, I'll just be I'll start humming if I'm
really happy. That's what a wonderful like expression. I have
(39:13):
a question about the new stuff that you're making, Like
what is what is the stuff that you're like, Ah,
this is my fucking vibration. I want to run and
do this. I'm so excited to know what that is.
Because I like, I feel like I got a taste
of that like punk spirit. It's almost this amalgamation of
(39:35):
all the kinds of music I like, which would be
like punk rock and country because I'm from the South.
And then just like I love the Beach Boys and
I just love like super pop songs, and so it's
just and I love David Byrnon's Talking Heads and also
(39:56):
David Bowie and Prince and I feel like we have
some of the similar people we look up to, at
least from what I read about you. Yeah, I mean
that's everybody. You know what you mentioned country and I
kind of like a showed country music when I was
living in Texas and I was like, oh this isn't
that's this corny or whatever. I've I don't know why
(40:17):
I was such an idiot, but I have gone back
and like the songwriting in country music. It's just everything
like it's an air tight it's perfect song. And you
would kill I mean all the influences that you're talking about,
combining them all like you would kill it. I just
(40:40):
want to try it. I'm scared. But if it sucks,
then you just don't put it out right, Yeah, you
don't put it out, and also like, it's good that
you're scared. It's good that you aren't sure what's going
to happen. I feel like I do weirdly well under pressure.
I'm not sure if it's just me or other people
too too, you know, I think some people, But do
(41:01):
you were better under pressure? No? I think the answer
is like I can sort of do it, but it's
not I usually I'm like pretty methodical. I guess so boring.
Oh god, I need Oh no, I that's not boring.
That's great, I like need chaos. That's terribly unhealthy. Oh no,
it's just like it's just a way. I guess. I
just like like being scared. I think that's like one
(41:22):
of the things I've learned about myself as all, like
watch a terrifying movie and be like why did I
do that? Have crazy dreams, be like, well you did
it to yourself fit But okay, I have like some
really like rapid fire questions. So if you don't like
any of them, just you can pass if And when
you're a ghost, if you become a ghost, how will
(41:43):
people know it's you? Like, what will be your style
of hunting? What's your thing you would do I would
probably move people's keys. Oh that's so evil. Oh, it's
like it's more evil than you know, like writing something
in blood on the wall. Just they think they'd put
their keys when place and I just I hied him
next to the zip blocks. That's so, that's so dark.
(42:06):
These dark impulses within the human spirit cannot be contained.
I think I'm gonna pull people's socks down in their
shoe every time they're wearing them. Oh that just Oh
that's great, Okay, great. Who would you haunt? See? This
is tricky because like I am doing like a malicious thing,
(42:26):
So I have to haunt somebody who I didn't like
to hide their keys. I mean, it's not really malicious.
It's a pretty friendly haunting. It's annoying, let's say, annoying,
bordering on egregious. Um, I might haunt my sister. She's
always losing her keys. That's good, watch out, sister. Would
(42:47):
you prefer to be abducted by the aliens that I
swear to God are coming soon or spend a night
alone in a truly haunted house? I mean, I think
it's probably wrong to assume that like and in life
force would have a bad intent to humanity, like maybe
they just like, you know, want to give you a
(43:08):
massage and you know, feed you alien food. But I
would say the Haunted House because I'm you know a
lot of people like would want to go to the
moon or would want to go to Mars, Like, I'm fine,
I don't want to that's so weird. You're like my
boyfriend he like is like, I don't want to go.
I don't know why I don't want There's there's I
(43:29):
think you can divide the world into people who like
I would want to go and people who wouldn't, and
I'm like, not good, it's fine here. So I think
that's why that's why I would choose the Haunted House.
That's I think. I'm just really impulsive and I would
like get on a spaceship and then halfway to wherever,
I'd be like, oh no, where what did I do?
(43:51):
I think that you're brave and cool and that's why
you would do it an adventurous in a way that
I'm not. That's not true. You're quite brave and adventurous.
We adventured to Taylor Swift's house together. That was fun.
That was a fun adventure. Oh do you believe in reincarnation.
That's like a question the answers. I don't know. That's
(44:14):
always the best answer for everything. I mean, not no,
not no. But I don't spend a lot of time
thinking like, oh, well, that's cool that I didn't do it.
Now in my next life, I'll get to it, Like
I don't. I don't know. I believe in reincarnation in
the sense that like work, work, carbon and we'll turn
into carbon in the life. You know, this sort of
(44:36):
chemistry aspect of it makes that makes perfect sense. Um,
But I don't speak Yeah, and I believe that it's
entirely possible in a sort of um sole form. But
I don't spend a lot of time thinking about it.
That's fair. I spend all my time things. See this
is really cool. Don't do what I do. They thank
(45:00):
you for coming on my podcast. I'm super excited to
see the movie You're in. My best friend Carrie Brownsie
and I made a movie called The Nowhere In that
is coming out this year, and it's a meta documentary
about me. I play myself and also you know St.
Vincent and then I'm a little too boring to make
(45:21):
a documentary about She tells me to spice things up
a little bit, and that goes horribly wrong, and it
turns into sort of like a meta horror documentary that
sounds amazing and fun. I can't wait to scare myself
and watch it. Follow me on Instagram. UM, I probably
put up a picture like once every two and a
(45:42):
half to three weeks, so you'll really be in for
a treat. Follow me on Twitter. I'm gonna be saying
a lot of problematic things, so check me out there. Um.
I'll be starting my TikTok page pretty soon with some
post modern choreography, which I hope we'll go viral. Yeah,
and thank you so much for listening, and thank you
(46:03):
so much for being on here. I really appreciate it.
So good to see you. It's great to see you too.
I'm really glad you asked me to do it, and
I appreciate you taking the time. Oh my god, same,
all right, keep on creeping on creeps, all right, see
us m
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