"Avril Lavigne In A Tie" (w/ Meghann Fahy)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Look man, oh I see you. Why look over there?
How is that culture? Yes? Goodness, I mean this is
a great moment in time. I feel that it is.
We have been watching all season what I'm gonna call

(00:22):
the television event of the year. It's appointment television. Yes,
at this point, we're gonna talk about the episodes that
have aired up till now of the White Lotus. So big, big,
big spoiler alert up ahead. If you if you're not
caught up, it's time. It's time. It's important that you
are and that you do catch up. And I hate

(00:43):
telling the readers turn back now, but it's important because
I obviously wouldn't want to ruin anything because this is
that show that is like, every single minute, give something
to talk about. And I also have to say, so
there's been five episodes out by now, and I wonder
if you agree. At the end of episode five there's
a moment that is like the ass eating scene, and

(01:03):
it's going to have everybody talking. And of course we're
talking about when the nephew focks his own uncle in
the assay, Oh that's his uncle, yes, bitch, Oh my god. See,
this is all all coming back to a great singer yeah, yeah, yeah,
I'm not even gonna why early in the morning. It's
a little person. I'm warmed up because I just came

(01:24):
from Grinder has gone public. Congratulations, which is the definition
of queer rights. I what's what's the I p O?
I wonder g R N d R great. I might
um buy at least at least I want to. I
want to feel like Barbara Corker in this. Oh my god,

(01:45):
you're ready to go in. I'm ready to go in
and make decisions. Here's I have a question for you.
What's more queer rights? Grinder going public in the New
York Stock Exchange, Crystal Waters and Jada Essence all performing
this morning. I mean that's hard to beat. Or Essex
Boy fucking is own uncle, or me on the way
to this episode of Last Cultures listening to Oh and

(02:08):
to the Unknown, No Girl, the theme to White Lotus.
Oh my god, you're not doing that. You're not doing
like the tongue movement. Yeah, the warbling? Yeah? So what
this is me running to the episode today? I'm running, running, running,
that's happening. Pod falls out of my ear falls on
the I go, shit, I go and I pick up

(02:29):
a thing. I put it back in my ear and
I start running again and I hear and its just
like sort of like, keep going to tell you something
is happening right now in the culture. Tell me what
is happening in the culture right now? Soundtracks and scoring
is really ambiently affecting everyone's lives and shaping the experience
of things. There's nothing more electrifying. And I was walking

(02:54):
here so galvanized because I knew we were coming to
what was going to be a legendary episode of this podcast.
And this is quite a week. This is because yesterday
I just want to say, I was on the Kelly
Clarkson Show. Oh my god, we can talk about this,
we can. I had it. I put it on my
fucking calendar. I said, Matt's on Kelly my number I'm
telling the guests my number one favorite person in this

(03:15):
world since I've been eleven years old, this Kelly Clarkson. Yesterday,
I got to be on her show to promote my
special Have You Heard of Christmas? Which is streaming on
December two, And let me tell you, the energy was
so am I gonna cry, so literally warm, gorgeous, just open,
and I couldn't have asked for a better experience with

(03:36):
the person that has meant so much to me. And
I sat next to Chloe Grace Moretts herself. She was
a gag. We talked housewives off air. She is a scholar,
and I'm saying, like, wow, the way that this year
has been like literally made worth it just for that
one meeting. Oh and what's important is that you got

(03:58):
to meet her on your terms quote unquote. You've been
in the audience, you had opportunities to say hello to her.
You decided years ago when Joel went on, you were like,
I can't meet her. I can't meet her. I would love.
The ideal situation is someday I'm going to meet her
when it's my own thing. I was just like, because
I always break down and cry before I even take
steps to her, because I've been literally and so like, um,

(04:23):
then there I was, and to have my first meeting
with her ever on cam like that rocks. And also
what I love about her the cameras go up, she's
the same person as the cameras go down, but swearing
like a sailor, like it is every other THIRDE have
you we have to ask the guests, But like this
was it was amazing, and I just wanted to make
sure that I honored the fact that I did meet

(04:45):
her and the readers, the loyal readers have been waiting
for this moment, and I've been waiting for this moment,
and so I want to acknowledge and say it was
better than I ever. Oh God, I'm so happy you
Please everyone readers. Watch have you heard of Christmas on Showtime?
It's coming out a December two this Friday Friday. And
speaking of so, I did Vulture Festival in l A.

(05:07):
It was one of my first like things to start
promoting a special. And I literally I look at the
schedule right, and I see, I see, well Betty, who
I had always wanted to do the special because like
I just if I was gonna do a sing along,
I had to have you had. But I look at
the schedule and I see that there's going to be
an advanced screening of at the time, episode three of
White Lotus with Megan Fahy, And I said to myself,

(05:29):
maybe it would be the gag to invite Megan on
And because I knew that our friend Steven Simbari managers
and so I reach out and I'm like would this
be possible? Thinking, probably, probably busy, probably not interested, etcetera.
Came Slade, We've seen the video, and you gotta look
at the video because if you don't know, no, you know,
this is not only a capital A actress, capital S star,

(05:51):
capital S singer. You must understand this is a person
that is on the precipice of major nous and already
just like like it's like so so so incredible and
everything that she's done. We're so excited that she's here,
you know, from the bull type, you know, from this
season of the White Lotus, fucking get this next to

(06:13):
normal on legendary, a multitude of things and a massive future,
and literally the readers are ready for this one. Everyone's
like even with the vulture Fest video of you two
singing a Holy Night. By the way, she she asks
a very valid question, which is does anyone know the

(06:35):
second verse? And we'll get into it. You came ready,
you know, I've I've just watched so many like beltresses
do that song in my life that it's like, don't don't. Well,
she's a beltress that's a ruler. Culture number fifty nine,
Josh Robin is a beltress, and we look forward to
all her future projects. But you two just hitting the vine,

(06:56):
that last vine. Do you know what I'm talking about? No?
Do it? Oh, I'm not doing it, but you guys
both beautiful, beautiful, beautiful, um sort of synchronicity. It was
a gorgeous moment, one of my favorite life moments. Now
she's here in person. We're doing this in person. We're
recording a lot of our episodes in person again, and

(07:17):
it's such a joy. We're so happy she's here. Everyone,
please welcome Megan Fathe. Oh my god, we're hello. Hi.
It's like such a joy to have you here, because like,
that was such a moment. I literally I was like,
she'll never say yes, and then you said yes and
came and crushed. I still can't believe that we did
that because it's been so long since I've even sung

(07:40):
in front of anybody, really really yeah, And you were
so chill about it. You were like, it's whatever, like
rehearse if you want or don't, well, then you tuk
to rehearsal. And I was like, and I saw Eric
person who was musically directing for me, who's our old friend,
and like, at one point you're rehearsing, and like you
walked off after you did, and he looks at me
like what and I was like, yeah, I know, it's
like the real deal. No, but I thought it was

(08:01):
going to be a duet. So we got so I
got there to rehearse, so I was like, I'm not
just showing up and winging this, which is what ended
up happening anyway. And he was like, what's like, what
kind of key? And I was like, well, whatever works
for Matt, like probably we should talk about that, and
he was like, no, I think whatever works for you. Okay.

(08:23):
So then this good or bad that you show up
and and it's a little it sounds like it might
have been to chill. No, it was great because like
your easy breeziness made me less servous, and I was
so nervous the idea of it. And then when I
got up there, and because I had been watching the
show which was going so well and everybody was loving

(08:43):
you so much, that I just actually got up there
and had fun. And then of course we did like
what ended up being for me spontaneous duet because you
brought me in. And also the thing is like, so
I would never actually endeavor to sing that song because
I feel like that is like the great big song
of christ Us. And then when you were like, now,
who actually knows the second verse to this song? I

(09:05):
literally there was a thing in my head and I
had the mic as the host of the show, and
I was like, I think I know the second verse
and there we are all the way in your key,
all the way. And that was the thing that really
took me out. I was like, how dare you sing
this higher and better than me? That is not true?
It is true, No, no, no, stunning. You were both amazing, resplendent.

(09:26):
It was just even on the video, which I was like,
it must have been something else to be there in person.
It was so fun. That was a really fun That
was one of my favorite life moments. Come on, so
Stephen tells me you had a Christmas album as a
kid or I'm like, still on the fence about whether
or not you have to, but it is true. I

(09:49):
do have a Christmas album that I made when I
was like twelve. What all covers all illegal? Yeah? Like
no rights? Is it sumable? Certainly not. My grandfather is
dressed as Santa Claus and featured on the album arts naturally.

(10:10):
What were some of the songs. I mean, I'm giving
you literally like the Simpsons Sister Christmas duet. Yeah, okay,
have you heard it? No? What is that they do? Um?
A little drummer boy Ashley and Jessica the literal Simpsons. Yes,
Oh my god. So here's the thing about Prump Pump

(10:32):
Pump by the Simpsons Sisters. That's actually one of the
great Christmas standards. Absolutely, okay, and you were twelve. I
think you're our age that we were twelve. So this
was Pete Simpson. Yeah, oh my god, you like it
wasn't even that you gave it time to like let
their little drummer boy like congeal in the culture. Oh

(10:53):
my god? What else? H Kelly Clarkson's Grown Up Christmas?
Grown Up Christmas List? Are you a Kelly fan? Of course? Wait?
So did you sing with her? I didn't, so, so
my publicists were sort of like, would you want us
to float singing with her? And so, like I said,
I'm like in pure panic and terror whenever it comes
to things like that, because you know, it's one thing

(11:15):
to sing by yourself, because you can sort of like
mess around, Like I'm obviously like a comedian who is
so sick. And then like when they're like, would you
want to sing with Key Carston? Can we float that
as an option? I literally was like no, ten car alarm,
like no way, Like do not do it? Like I
would never dare sing with her? But like I understand

(11:35):
the question, of course, but the answer is a hard
Now have you been on her show? Wait? So you
didn't know? Oh, one day? Maybe one day? I get it,
do you know what I mean? I totally get it.
It's it's like almost too much. I mean, she's I think, well,
let's talk about this, who is the best singer? Like
probably I would say when the way she can sing anything,

(11:57):
I'm like, you're scary, like she's while yeah it is
a little spooky. Yeah, I mean I feel like you
will have another opportunity, Oh for sure. I mean let's
just say it went well enough where the producers were like,
you have to come back, which I always want to. Okay,
So I feel like a performance on a second visit

(12:18):
is actually chef's kiss. Oh my god, would you do it?
Have you been on her show? I also would not
do it. I think I would just look at her
and cry, like I don't, but you could. I don't
think so, I don't know. Were you a Kelly fan? Yeah,
of course, yeah, alright, I mean like and this comes
full circle because like it's a little bit of my
culture moment later than but I used to like sit

(12:41):
in my basement and like stare at my basement window
singing breakaway. Cut to like kind of recently when I
learned that April Levine wrote that song, she did, she did,
And it's complicated because there's Avril and Kelly. Do you
know the story worry of Avriline, Kelly, I don't think

(13:02):
this is the story. So this is a gag. So
when Kelly was a finalist and the top two on
American Idol, this is like Avril's big moment. Aviril's like
hugely famous from like skater Boy, and like she's like
having a big moment. So this is between skater Boy
and I'm with You. Avril Levine wins Best New Artist
at the v m a's and presenting that is Justin

(13:25):
Guarini and Kelly Clarkson, who were in the midst of
the finals week of American Idol, So they are so
excited they announce Avril Levine Avril Levine, whose image at
the time is very like punk rock, I'm better than
this while hooks were Literally she was a pop singer,
but she pretended she was more punk. So then she

(13:46):
gets up on stage and Kelly goes to hug her,
Avril takes her arm, lifts it over her head, and
like rudely takes the award from her and goes to
the mic. Literally, and I'm sitting there at home being
like I am done. I was like, I can't believe this,
and I'm a diet never and then literally what happened

(14:07):
was I'm watching it and I'm sitting there seething. I'm
I'm eleven years old. I'm sitting there. So then like
I remember, a few weeks later, I'm in the car.
I think I think my dad was driving me to
like literally Catechism, like Wednesday night religious school. I'm already
in a bad mood. So I'm in the car and
I'm hearing this song looking for a place, I'm for

(14:31):
a face, and I'm like, okay, this is kind of
a major bob. I was like, and it's with you.
I'm like wait, and then she starts really wailing the end,
and I'm like, oh is this and then the radio
announcer goes, that's the new one from Avril Levine. And
I was so mad because I was like, wait, she

(14:51):
actually can really sing and that song was legendary. It
was the first time I had ever heard I'm with You,
and I was like fuck. And then I was like
goddamn it, like the moral conundrum, knowing she was so
rude to my girl, and also that she had wailed
this song, I was like, I still can't. And then
later with write break Away. Then she wrote Breakaway, which

(15:11):
is like a B side that everyl didn't want anymore. Yeah,
because there's a demo version of Avril Levine singing it
on YouTube, Yes there is. And so then later years
later Howard Stern Kelly was on Howard Stern and Kelly
told told the story of how rude Avril was and
she was like, good for her, yeah, and she was like, yeah,

(15:31):
it was really nasty and made me feel really bad
because everyone treated us like ship. She was like, yeah,
when we were American, I don't find a list like
at that show. She was like, everyone treated us like
ship that night. And when that happened on stage, I
felt worthless and then, but then recently Avril was on
Kelly Show. Yes, and they didn't mention it that whole thing,
but it's all everything's fine now, But it's funny because

(15:54):
that was not the best. And then that miss Independent
was written by Christina Aguilera Andy, so Kelly was getting
like the cast off songs but making them monster head
right right right, So this is this just goes to

(16:15):
say like Kelly can take any song and make it
at the moment. Oh for sure. Your first talk show
appearance was Jimmy Kimmel, like last or two weeks ago.
You were such a natural. That is so nice. I

(16:36):
have never been more terrified, are you really? Yeah? And
for the duration to like the whole time I was
sitting there, I was like you were a charm bouquet,
Like you came out so full. I mean, he was lovely,
and everybody that works for him too, was like from
the second I got out of the car, everybody was
just so nice. It was just really sweet. So yeah,

(17:01):
I'm I'm glad that it's over. Yeah, but there'll be
so many more. And you must be like really enjoying
this because like I don't know how it feels to
even book Weete Lotus and then go there and like
film it in that insane location with what seems to
be like a really fun cast. Then to see it
received so well, like it just has to be crazy.
It is crazy. It's crazy down crazy down USA. Like

(17:25):
I can't even believe I'm sitting here talking to you
guys right now. I think you're both so cool. I'm serious.
What I loved was hearing what your audition for the
first season did for the Alex Didario. Yeah, so then
like you do that and you think and then you
see it and it's like this stunning show and then

(17:48):
you get the audition for the second season or was
it like he thought of you. I don't know. I
mean there was a very long casting process. And actually
now I'm remembering something really funny that happened at the premiere,
so so um it was. It was an agent of
a of a person who I won't say, And this

(18:11):
agent was like so lovely and like truly meant so
well that somebody brought him up to me at the party.
They were like, we want to introduce you this person.
He really wants to meet you. He comes up. I'm like,
oh my gosh, it's so nice to meet you. He's like,
I made a picture together. I'm so happy for you.
I was like, thank you so much. He was like,
and I mean, after what happened to you on the
first season, you must have just wanted to kill yourself.

(18:33):
And he was like, I mean there, it was the
biggest moment of your career out the window, and I
went right into it with him. I was like, yes,
they're gone, Like I fully just went with him. But
I was like this man, not not this fan, beings
like you must have just wanted to end it all

(18:56):
so right. Like in my head, I'm like packing my
bags and moving back to Massachusetts and I'm like, wait, wait, no,
it's a happy ending. I feel like everything didn't work
out because I feel like this part with you is
like I told you, like when I saw you the
other day at rehearsal, Like she's like walking up to
the pigeon. I'm like, by the way, I was like,
you're kicking my ass in this show like it was

(19:16):
from the second year on screen, it is like so great.
I love you and Aubrey together. It really is like
can you talk about like what that relationship is? Like
what is she like? Because I feel like she's like
sort of enigmatic in a way, you know what I mean,
Like you get who she is on screen, but like
that had to be like a fun relationship. Yeah, it

(19:37):
was so fun. And I think that our natural energies
are so different that it does sort of just innately
create this sort of fascinating dynamic when we're doing scenes together.
But I think that's true for basically everybody in the cast.
Like Mike has this amazing quality to him where he
just like knows that you have something that he needs

(19:59):
for that character and he kind of just lets you
like do whatever you want with that, and he's so
good at picking the thing that there's sort of this
like ease to all of it because of that. Because
I feel like there are things about this season that
I really, really really am picking up on in a
way that I don't know. Maybe it's because I'm like
paying a little bit more attention than I was first.

(20:20):
It's recently biased, like the first season feels like a
million years ago, even though it but we were saying
we we love this season like we love the first season.
This second season is I feel like there's this alchemy
through you guys as actors, but also obviously through Mike.
But it's like between you and THEO, there's a very
interesting fertile thing there. But then this last scene in

(20:40):
episode five, I watched it like four times. Yeah, I
said to Bowen, I was like, you have to text
me after you watch this, because I think this is
maybe one of the best written scenes I've seen in
a really because it's all sub textual, probably an actor's dream.
And I'm sure it was a huge challenge on a
technical level for you. Maybe it wasn't, maybe it came
very organically, but Matt and I were texting each other

(21:01):
the line reads over text of just whips. I'll find
it later anyway, point is, yeah, get a trainer. I
just just like that that idea of like you you
basically saying right there, don't talk with my family, which
I loved. Yeah, yeah, well well no, I mean I

(21:23):
think what Daphne is actually insinuating in that moment is
like quite dark, absolutely um, which is an actor's dream
because that's so fun to play like these like nuanced
like under the surface you're saying one thing and you're
meaning anything else kind of like and Mike's writing is
so good that like it does kind of come easily

(21:43):
in a way because it's just like all there in
the words. But yeah, I don't know if I should
say what I think she's insinuating or not, because I
don't even know you, and then you don't want to
hit anything. But the thing is too I wonder like,
what is he like as a director because he's also
an actor, which which I've worked with a lot of
actor directors. Actually yeah, yeah, it's very different the way

(22:08):
that they get in there and the way because they
almost they don't want to tip anything or give to
heavier direction. It is all there. But I wonder, like,
what's the experience of working with him as a director.
It's kind of amazing because he's he's actually very unconcerned,
like he knows exactly what he wants. He gives very
clear notes. He doesn't give a ton of notes. Interesting,

(22:30):
and if you ask him a question like hey, what
do you think about this, like or I don't know,
I was thinking about the scene, and he'll literally just
be like, uh, yeah, I don't know, whatever you want,
just so light about it, which is kind of was
a little bit surprising to me, I think on some
level because he's so razor sharp with what he's trying

(22:52):
to execute. The product is always so I was kind
of surprised to experience him as being that free and
somehow also specific. You know, it depends on the actor,
Like for someone who's relatively in experienced like me, Like
if I'm not getting something clear from a director, I
like I spin out just a little bit and I go, well,

(23:14):
all right, Like in my mind, the guiding hand is
not like coming in and the way that I wanted to,
and that's your own ego. But the fact that it
all works like for you and Mike, that's very cool. Well, yeah,
I mean I think I experienced that, like we all do,
like as actors, there's a part of us that's sort
of condition to sort of like need the guidance, crave

(23:37):
the approval, like have the back and forth and all
of those things, and so it can be really uncomfortable
in a space where not necessarily getting that like gratification
all the time. But I think it's really effective in
a way because it sort of forces you to like
make choices. And again, like he very much guided everybody,

(24:03):
but he's also not entirely concerned with like backstory, and
you know, as actors. It's like you show up and
you're like, well, I have to have all these intelligent
questions to ask because I just need him to know
that I'm thinking about things I care and I have
opinions and you made the right choice for asking me
to be here. Like, and I had this meeting with
him on my schedule when I first got to Italy

(24:24):
and it was like thirty minutes on my schedule and
I was like freaking out. I was like, I have
this is my opportunity to tell him why I deserve
to be here. And he was like, do you have
any questions? And I was like, uh no, and he
was like okay, cool, Well, if you want to change anything,
let me know. I'm here, text me, call me whatever.
And literally that was it. And then THEO came in

(24:45):
and we chatted with him a little bit, but he
was so like he's like, whatever helps you, Like if
you want to go through the backstory and figure out
the things, like, go for it. He was like, but
the vibe that I got from him is like whatever
helps you is great, Yeah, and I'm here if you
need anything, but also like go play, because you almost

(25:07):
get the sense that like the casting is the part
maybe where maybe that's where he's thinking a lot, And
that's why maybe it was a long casting process because
finding the right person for all these roles is really
important because when you find that person, then you're trust
them and whatever they do on screen is what we wanted,
because I guess that's what acting is, right. It's like

(25:29):
catching someone in a moment and then like these people
are just supposed to be living their lives and so
whatever you do on screen is gonna read. It doesn't
have to be all this heavy stuff. It can be
like thrown away And I wonder, do you guys do
a lot of takes? Do you move on quickly? Kind
of yeah? Which is yeah. I always felt like that
whenever like they say like, okay, we're moving on, and

(25:50):
they're like, no one comes over and looks you in
the eyes and it's like, hey, that was good and
what you did here here and here is good and
that's why we're moving on, which they don't do because
they get it and then they move on because I
don't want us a job to do. But hold on,
wait a second. What as soon as they say like
checking the gate, You're like, wait, I could probably do
it better, you know, But I wonder if it is

(26:13):
like we're capturing these people in a moment, like that's
what acting is. I'm sure it was informed by the
fact that you guys were in thistily like on this
beautiful resort or was it very like were you were
there to work or were you there to like experience
things in the way that definitely was yeah, yeah, I
mean the line definitely felt blurred at certain points because
you are living in the hotel that you're shooting, you

(26:34):
know what I mean, So you're you're in a way
you are having that experience. Yea, was it weird at
a certain point. I mean it's kind of weird, but
it is like fancy like actor summer camp, which is
like always kind of a fucked up thing, you know,
like we literally did that island. Yeah. And so I
always say, like people know about ten percent of the
story from like what what the movie shows and like

(26:56):
what we saw in the press and everything, because like
existing altogether, as a asked, that's like doing this like
stuff that's a little bit meta, because like we all
know what it's like to be on vacation with friends
or like a boyfriend or whatever, and then like you're
you're doing it and you're there for a long time
with each other, and there's dynamics in place, so it's
very Yeah, it's a thing, but overall it was amazing.

(27:18):
How are you there from February to like the end
of July? Shut up? Yeah, that's a quick turner of
this year. We wrapped at the end of July and
the show came out in October, which is mind boggling. Yeah,
that's quick. Yeah, that's quick, especially for something that feels
so intricate, because that's another like compliment I have for

(27:38):
the series is that it's really hard to make that
many characters feel completely fleshed out. Yeah, And like when
I started watching the episodes, which is something that I
actually really struggle with. I hate of watching myself people do.
But I am such a fan of the show and
I love what everybody else is doing so much that
I'm just like sucking, I'm watching it. But um, I

(28:01):
saw some things in the edit where like I remember
being in a scene and Mike being like, can you
say this, and just like adding a thing, and then
it being in the edit in this way where I
was like he knew then probably that he wanted to
put that there in that way like I saw like
into his brain for like two seconds, like he's editing

(28:22):
the show while he's shooting it. Azing. It was really unbelievable. Yeah,
can you think of any examples from the first five episodes?
It was I think it was in the first episode.
Actually it was something that Daphne says in the scene
where they're all sitting around drinking sprits is together, but
I can't remember exactly what the line was. There's the

(28:45):
scene a few guys in the edible scene. I love
how it was just like, oh yeah, the Bell Elephants
monologue is a moment is amazing. But even just like
the acting like on drugs is like so heavy for
an actor, I guess, but I think it was so
perfectly calibrated. It wasn't like overtaking like the performance. It

(29:05):
wasn't even ever taking like the dialogue in this thing.
It was just these two people who were talking We're
stuck in this big villa or platzo, just like waxing
philosophic about life. And then the whole Bow Elephants not
along and then obviously the moment of like I'm not
a victim is just so like, I hope you're very proud.
I know it's weird to watch yourself, but like, I mean,

(29:26):
I feel like you're such a standout on the show.
But everybody, it's like what we're saying, there's not a
weak link, and it really isn't. There really isn't Sabrina imperially,
Simona Tabasco, I'm forgetting me as name. I'm sorry. Yes,
it's just every character that pops up, I'm like, oh,
I'm excited to see what then is going to be,

(29:47):
even the characters I really don't like. And you know,
it's funny because like which has nothing to do with
anyone's performance, it's obviously all there. But like, you know
which character I really struggle with, I actually do a
Porsche like to me. She irritates me so much because
I'm just like, what do you want? But haven't you
been her? Though? Between you guys, I have, and I
think that, yeah, I've been in that situation a million

(30:08):
times and I have a great deal of shame about it,
or not shame, but just like in turn of like,
oh man, that is a human thing, like well it's
that thing of like there's the guy that you should
go with. And then there's the guy that like for
some whatever the reason like turns the screws, you know
what I mean. And this this smoke show, Leo would
all who plays you really do and like the reveal

(30:36):
at the end of five, like I'm still processing that
that's uncle. Yeah, I know, that's the darkness by blood. Yes,
and that's why he's there, you know what I mean?
Is it is it actually though or is he just
saying it's his uncle? Yes? I guess we don't know yet.
I don't even know the answer is that question, but

(30:58):
I think it's probably possible, Yeah, that he's not related
to him. Yeah, and then he's just there, you know,
to to to do that purpose and be fun and
like of course the cover is like it's my uncle,
you do know, I don't know it really is his uncle,
that is truly, But also like it feels so the show,

(31:22):
like when she when Jennifer cool it just started to
walk down the hallway and like by the way I
felt like Jennifer like Slade this episode to this last episode,
the opera scene was so beautiful and so funny. It's
so funny, but it's so like that it's so hurt
when she's walking down the hallway and like you hear

(31:42):
these noises. He was like, oh my god, I'm so scared. Yeah,
but it was. I mean, it continues to be just
like that show, and um, I'm so excited it's going
to continue. And obviously, like it is an anthology, so
we won't see you in that one, but I wonder
if we'll see Jennifer. I wonder if Jennifer is going
all around the world who knows, who knows, who does know?

(32:05):
Who does know? Megan? Okay, so obviously everyone should be
watching The White Lotus. But let's get into the damn
thesis of lost culture, which was Megan Fahey, what was

(32:26):
the culture that made you say culture was for me?
This is that thing in pop culture that, for some
reason you look back on and you're like, that changed me. Okay, well,
here we are, Avril Levina a tie. I swear to
God like it really, I can genuinely sit here and
tell you that it changed my life. Yeah, okay, what

(32:48):
was it sartorially? Yeah, I honestly I don't even know why.
I just I was so affected by her her presence
at that time, like truly started going to Abercrombie and
Fish and buying men's cargo pants to wear to school

(33:08):
at Knee's skate shoes. She's never been on a skateboard
in her legs. Yeah, multiple pairs skate shoes. Where did
you grow up? Western Mass? Western Mass? So then like,
you know, for Christmas one year, my lovely adorable parents,

(33:29):
Like I could cry when I think about them, like
going onto the Avril Levine site and like buying the
official merch tie for me for Christmas, And then like
shortly thereafter, her coming out in an interview and being
like I hate it when other people were ties, Like
I was wearing ties because nobody else was wearing them
and I was thirteen or fourteen or whatever, and I

(33:51):
was like, I won't recover from this. That's the big
It was really a big heartbreak. Do you ever see
the interviews from her like now from that time, and
she was like I don't fucking no, man, I don't
like hate pop music, man, like fuck it, Like I
don't even know to be a pop start man. I'm like,
are you crazy? You're like she really was on that.

(34:11):
She was young, and I think she was seventeen when
her first album came out. I think you're right. I
think you're right. And I remember like hearing radio DJs
talk about her like yeah, this new hot chicken on
the scene. I'm like, I'm like twelve, and I'm like,
this girl is too young. I know there's something fishery
about this one. Why are they talking like that? Do

(34:32):
you think this is like a tomboy phase or was
it not even that? It was just like this punk
slash skater which was at the time and still is
like just very cool, very exactly. There was like a
quality and like a convention around it that was very
interesting to people. I feel like it just gave me
permission in some way to like access this part of

(34:55):
myself that I didn't I couldn't before. And like you,
I sang a lot growing up, and so I used
to do these really embarrassing like it's like one time,
for like Disney Radio, I like rocked up to like
this place with like a karaoke machine and like saying
covers and I say one of I sang one of
her like darker cuts from the first album. Yeah, what

(35:18):
was it? Do you remember? Uh? Yeah, it's like losing grip.
It was. It's been so long, I write this song.
You don't know me, don't ignore me. See this is
this thing. It's like my sister had the album and
I would hear listening to it and this was the
post the Kelly thing. So I was trying so hard.

(35:39):
But the hooks were good. I mean, you were onto
something to be fair. And the guy who was like
running the little event that I did where I sang
a cover of that song too a karaoke track, was like,
maybe next time cut that one. It was like it's
a little too heavy and I was like, yeah, too
hardcore for you. Like I loved that that happened. I

(36:03):
was like, oops, too dark. I was too edgy for
do you guys want to know something? What we had
on in the car every hour, every minute we were
driving was Radio Disney. Yeah. That was huge. It was huge.
And there would be like little local ads were like
they're doing an event at the mall and like I
would beg I wouldn't. I wouldn't even get to the

(36:24):
point of asking my parents to go. But in my
mind I was like, if I could show up, yeah,
I would blow everyone. I'm sure I wouldn't have, but
it was the dream was just like to show up
one of those things and meet other kids. You wanted

(36:44):
to get on the radio. I wanted to get on
the just to like be on stage or something, you know.
Like I feel like this is like you like honing
this skill for years and years, and but that's also
like it speaks to this thing that I think we
all probably felt as children, Like did you feel like
there was just something inside of you where you just

(37:05):
like you just sort of knew that at some point
you would probably do some weird stuff in this arena,
like not even as it applied to being like super
successful at it, but like I don't, I just like
I didn't end up going to college because you were working.
I did next to normal. And I just remember like
when I I knew that I wasn't going to school,

(37:26):
like I had applied to colleges and stuff. I like,
wasn't that surprised that it wasn't happening. Like I grew
up and I was like, I'm going to go to college.
That was always the plan, Like I was never planning
to not go, But when it didn't happen, I was like, oh, yeah,
that seems right somehow, Like did you guys have that
when you were a kids like in any way I
definitely felt like connected to. Like I remember when American

(37:47):
Idol first started happening and there was a concept of
you could go audition and be on anywhere. Changed the
paradigm for I think that's why I latched onto Kelly
so much, is because I genuinely felt like she came
from nowhere and got to become a star just from
being talented and being herself and etcetera. And that definitely

(38:08):
was like a north star for me, to the point
where during the second season of American Idol there was
a contestant name Matt Rogers, and I thought, well, now
you can never get my dream yea season two and
I was like, I remember being like, they're never going
to have another Matt Rodgers on American Isoland. And I
remember thinking, as like a thirteen year old, like that
will be the way that I become who I'm supposed

(38:30):
to become. It is through American Idol, Like delusional suburban kid,
you know what I mean? But like it's it's not
delusional at all. You're seeing it like you Well, I
I just saw it as like a feasible path forward
because that was what was fed to us by the
American Idol messaging machine. It was like it can happen
to you. And also at that time, I was realizing

(38:51):
I was gay and stuff and like really wanting an
escape and really thinking like it's got to be bigger
and more than this, So like, I do identify with
what you're saying, and clearly Bowen was like, once I
stormed the stages of Disney Channel, it's going to be
over for these homes, not even Disney Channel and radio
radio Disney. Oh my god, that's the That was the Yeah.

(39:14):
I don't know, but I love this answer so much
because it's not just Avril Levine. You're saying, it's Avril
Levine with the tie. Yeah. Yeah, that's the perfect kind
of answer where it's so specific. It was bigger than
just everl Levine, And thank god because we know she
was a cruel woman, a cruel girl. The second album Slaps, well,

(39:34):
that was when I had to start retracting it because like,
did you that I was gonna give it up to you?
Oh my god, tell me what that song gets forgotten? Okay,
and the messaging is still hits, like totally, you know,
she's still out here, like telling you to do whatever
the funk you want. What's crazy, though, is I actually

(39:56):
saw her. So that was the first concert I ever
went to. Great my best friend and her older sister
took me, and then I saw Levine in Vegas for
the While we Were Young Fest, which you tried to go,
Oh my god, how was it? So like you're familiar
with the conspiracy theory that she's and then what is

(40:27):
the theory? I'm starting to think about it. I just like,
I just have never seen someone like truly sounded amazing, Yeah,
but nothing going on underneath, like a real like Wrotenus

(40:48):
or or just like I hesitate to say robotic or
something because that's I feel like this. Well, you don't
want to say like this person, whoever this person is,
is in human? No, but I think that it probably
is fair to say that she's been doing it a
long fucking time. And there definitely was a point in
her career where she was like, you know what, give

(41:09):
him girlfriend, give him, give him the kawaii, you know
what I mean? Like she definitely like checked out or
like stopped trying to do it. Was it was Hello
Kitty was when it was Hello Kitty was a wild
moment in time. That was a wild moment in times.
Do you know about this, Katy? This is her fourth album,
fifth Who Cares? After first was let Go, second was

(41:29):
oh god, I'm blinking on the name. Third was best
damn Thing, which is girlfriend, which I think is a
great No, best that thing is good. But then after
that she started to do the Hello Kitty song, so
she did a whole like this is post because we
we could play it. I think it's important that you
hear it, Okay, but oh god, goodbye lullabye She's got
And then there was also keep Holding On from the

(41:50):
Aragon soundtrack, which actually is about keep it. That was
like during her phase where she was married to the
guy from Nickelback right, yes, yes, yes, and that was again.
And she also dated Brodie Jenner for a long time. Yes,
remember that. And Brodie Jedder was like, legit, one of
the hottest guys ever, like obviously like well he's Brodie
Jenner whatever, but like she dated him for a long time.

(42:12):
She dated this some forty one guy, Yes she did,
Derek Whibbley. I think they were even married. They were
they were married first, then it was nickel Back yea,
she like had like a oh no, like making an
aggressive play for like the girls, but this is Africa

(42:34):
and Stefani did Harris Juku Girls. It came out at
just the wrong time, which was when it was like
as a culture everyone was like talking about appropriation and
so I feel like I kind of understand what she
was trying to do and it completely failed and it
was not executed well at all. But it is shocking,

(42:54):
and I feel like that was when like I don't know,
like the soul sort of left the body yathing. Is
this what you're saying. I mean, what you just said
feels like the way toward it. Yeah, but you can
see it live like in person. That's that's even more chilling.
You know. I do think that she seems like a
full grown adult now and like you know what I mean,

(43:16):
she just came out with back and everything. Yeah, And
I mean, look, she's talented. She's really talented. Is she
the same girl as the seventeen year old who came out?
Is she dead and replaced? Not for us to say,
only God can say. But it's the same thing as
Paul McCartney, as all the Beatles, specifically Paul McCartney that
Paul McCartney died and this guy is just like, so

(43:39):
you mentioned next to normal and I want to ask,
did you cross over with Alice Ripley or was it
Marin Maze? So I was an understudy when Alice was
doing the show, but I did do the show with
her as an understudy. I saw Alice do it, but
I believe that was it. Jennifer Jennifer, Jennifer. I did
see Jennifer on mean, Oh, so you must have been

(44:01):
on the stage. She was great. You must have been
in the wings or something like. You guys were roommates, yeah,
which is like kind of psychotic, like it didn't feel
weird for us at the time, but like I remember,
any time it came up and we mentioned that we
were living together and I was her under study, everyone
was like, are you guys okay? Yeah, but we were
having a last Yeah that sounds cool. Yeah, no problem.

(44:22):
It was so fun. That sounds great. That was an
amazing show. It was pretty special. I remember, I don't
think I've ever sobbed like I saw when I saw
that show. I mean that the entire last Like have
you seen that? I only know the recording. I don't
know I've never seen the entire last like fifteen minutes, like, um,
it's like, hey, number three, perfect for you? That through,

(44:44):
Like you don't even know, Like that was such a
special show. I saw it with my friend Mackenzie Derris.
We won the lottery. Actually we were at m U
and we won the lottery and it was the first
time we had ever even tried the lottery. And we
we got these like the like seats in the balcony,
like like I called them the Lincoln seats, like disrespectfully,

(45:05):
you know what I mean, Like those like the ones
Jennifer was sitting in watching the opera. That's where we were,
And I had just like such a profound emotional reaction
to that show. And I think Aaron Tabde had just left, um,
so I didn't see him, but it was that was
like such a moment. Was that your Broadway debut? Yeah? Yeah,
that was like the first thing I ever really did

(45:26):
on stage. That's oh my god, it's amazing. Yeah, I mean,
that'll be one of the coolest things I've ever done
in my whole life for forever. I mean, it was
just so special. Yeah, And did you stay with it through?
When Marin was there? Yeah, she's my angel. Her and
Jason were really incredible. I'm so grateful for them in

(45:47):
that moment in my life. And I actually might cry
because I was so young and she was so warm
and like smart and had great boundaries and like knew
how to take care of herself and was a team player.
And I feel like, when you're eighteen and you haven't
learned how to be in an environment like that, it's

(46:09):
really easy to learn bad habits from other people. And
so when she and Jason came in, they like fully
just scooped me up and like held me through that
whole experience in this way where I felt like it
changed how I continued to move through my career after
that because they were so amazing to me, and Jason's

(46:33):
I'm still very close with him, and um, I'm just
yeah that she was an amazing talent. She really was.
She was really one of the greats. And I almost
feel like while she was with us, she never really
got like that moment to be considered like, you know,
on the level of like Patty and like like, but
but like she really was, Like I remember there was
that amazing tribute to Sondheim that they all did and

(46:55):
she sang losing my mind. It was just so incredible.
She was one of the greats to have someone like
that display care. I think it all comes down to care,
and that's the thing that is unfortunately not super baked
into Like it's just like human nature, right, It's like
everyone's in their own little world. Like it's hard to

(47:16):
in that kind of environment reach out in this way,
and any form it shows up in like care is
just like a very powerful thing, especially with what you're
saying when you're it's your first job, and your first
job will always be your first job, or maybe it
wasn't was it technically your first mean, yeah, it was
your your first job will always be your first job,
and then it defines so much. Of course, it's still

(47:37):
like informs that the way you move through your career. Yeah.
And also that show really required everyone involved to be
an exposed nerve every night, Like that was emotional. That
must have been tough. It was really hard. But I
also didn't even know how hard it was because I
didn't know anything. Yeah, you know what I mean, Like,
when I think about it now, I'm like, I don't
think I could do it again. Do you want to

(48:00):
go back to Broadway and do the stage. I would
love I would love to. Yeah, you look should but
also like in theory, like everyone wants to do that,
and then like Broadway is so different now, you know
what I mean. It's like hard. There's like almost nothing
not to say, there's almost nothing out there, but like
you know, it's hard. It's figuring itself out. Yeah, especially

(48:20):
in the new phase of likest pandemic and everything. Yeah,
but we're going to k Pop the musical premiere in
a few days. It's going to be fun. Yeah, our
friend Jason Kim like wrote it and so that'll be fun.
But there's their stuff out there. Have you seen the
new Into the Woods? I have not. Oh you have
to go. You should be Cinderella. Oh god, you should.

(48:42):
So I actually auditioned for the film yeah, and it
was like a really embarrassing experience because I was not
off book with the song. So I was like, Cinderella
wasn't on the steps of the palace. Yes, Yeah, And
the casting director was like she like let me stumble through.

(49:02):
And then she was like, so we're gonna We're gonna
bring you back. Because I just sort of feel like
you have to know the song better Um in order
to audition for this, and I was like, okay, thank you.
I left. I was like, I will not be returning,
like I was never going to get that. I think
I can't even remember if I might have gone back,
but I just was like, it's not going to be me.

(49:24):
I I developed like a pretty intense performance anxiety in
that moment in time. I actually stopped auditioning for musicals
altogether because I was struggling so much because you had
like a mental block. Well, I you know, I did
next to normal, which was very specific. It was like
this pop rock musical. I never really had any formal training.

(49:47):
I didn't you know what I mean, So like because
the show was exactly and because the show was so
popular and stuff, my agent at the time was like
sending me in for every musical under the sun. And
I was getting really intimidated because you know, you're sitting
outside and you're hearing all these people sing, and they're
amazing and they have all these I felt like they
had all these tools that I didn't have, and I

(50:10):
really spooked myself out. Like I would go into the
room and I would forget the words or I would
like crack or like my mouth was drying. I couldn't
do and and I pushed myself for a while. I
was like, just do it, just do it, just do it.
And then I was like, actually, I think I'm gonna
take a break because I don't think I'm learning anything
from this, Like I think the line between like pushing

(50:31):
yourself out of your comfort zone and like knowing when
to protect yourself is a tricky line. And I finally
got to a place where I was like, I'm not
this isn't serving me, this is actually only making me
feel bad. So I'm gonna take a break. And then realize,
like I also don't have to be in like every
musical is not right for me, and that's okay, So

(50:53):
maybe I stop just going in for every musical because
I can't I have the opportunity to, you know what
I mean, It's sally important to so important to realize
that to understand that there was a second there where
when I was like leaving college and again like you
had no real formal training, Like I did take a
couple of voice lessons in college, and I was doing

(51:15):
musical theater, but really it was extended through comedy and
the way. I always say, like a comedian can learn
to sing, and there are so many comedians that actually
have great voices because they're committed. It's like you, you
you knocked down that boundary because you like forced yourself
into commitment and bravery and just think, well, I'm not
the singer, so I might as well just fake it,

(51:37):
and then you realize like you have access once you
just take those checkpoints away. But then like you go
into an audition scenario like walking into fucking Telsey because
you go in and you listen to these men just
make sounds that are different from anything you commit. How

(52:00):
effortless it sounds for them to like, yeah, pop up
into a belt. It's just like you know what I'm saying.
It's like that musical theater sound that's just like, oh,
you've never smoked a cigarette and looked at it's amazing,
Like Ben Platt, like the sound he's able to make,
and how quickly it's it's like I describe it as
like a weapon. It's like so resonant and so effortless

(52:24):
that I'm like, I don't even know that my body
could ever do that. And then I think maybe some
people are just worn with a certain like way of
being physically that their body can just make that sound.
But you walk into healthy and you hear that and
you're like, oh, what the funk? Am I get me
out of here? Do you know what, Matt? You have?
You have? Honestly, I'm just realizing in this moment, you're

(52:47):
my new Avril Levine? What are you? Yeah? Because you
when we sang together, like did the thing where you
gave me permission to like be comfortable and get out
side of myself and like be in the moment with you,
like because your voice is truly insane and you're also

(53:08):
the funniest person alive. So your your ability to do
both of those things, and I could feel you doing
it to the audience as well, Like it's such a
magical I mean, both of you honestly can do this thing.
But I experienced it with you in that moment, and like,
I'm just it's just landing on me now that like
you fully did that kind of exactly what we're talking about.

(53:28):
I experienced it every time we're on a stage together.
It's it's comfort, It's Here's what I'll say is like
this is what I would say to anyone, And you
guys are being so nice, and that's so kind. But
what literally hacked the whole system for me was just
that all an audience wants to do is have fun,
and they just want to have fun. And if and

(53:49):
if you were having fun, like I feel like everyone
has fun. And I actually got that from Amy Poehler's book.
It was called Yes Please, And I've always Amy has
always been like my person that I'm most inspired I
would buy. Like I remember when I was like eighteen
an n y U and closeted and knew I had
to change my life. I was gonna google the person
I looked up to most in the world, and that
was Immi Poler And so I wikipedia at her and

(54:10):
found out everything she had ever done and like pretty
much copied her, like I signed up for UCB audition
for the improv classes or whatever. But when I read
her book, she said something like the biggest hack, or
like the the advice I got that I would always
give everyone else is if you're having fun, they are
having fun. And so it's just this thing of like

(54:30):
I find so much joy in singing, I find so
much joy in performing, and also so much responsibility when
people buy tickets to see a show that's like with
your name on. So it's like that thing of you
better you know what I mean? Every time I go
out there too, I'm I'm freaking nervous, Like there's I've
never been more than go lead up to my special no,
I was like you, I was like a hermit for

(54:52):
three weeks. But that's your process, though, is that You're like,
I'm gonna not drink. I'm not gonna like have these
like party hard. It was like an antisocial thing, no drinking,
no smoking. Like it was like, which is like hard
for me someone that likes to, you know, go out
and stuff. But but it is important, like you do
have to take care of yourself so that you can
be in the mental space to go out there and

(55:12):
then give can I scope out a little bit because
I think the three of us all have this thing
of I wasn't formally trained, right, and which is which
is a thing that stays with you forever. Yeah, do
you feel like you're over that a little bit or now,
I mean maybe a little bit, but but now that
you're saying that, like I do feel like it's they're
a bit like when I found out that I was

(55:34):
going to do the white lotus. I was so excited
for two seconds, but I was immediately terrified, yes, because
you know everyone is going to see this, and I
didn't feel like I could hang with the cat like that.
There were so many amazing actors that I felt like
had earned their spot, and there was this part of
me in my head that was like, you haven't done

(55:54):
that yet. Yeah, But that's all comes down to is
that it is imposter syndrome. Clearly, it does not camper
anything for either of you. That it's not a thing
that people think about. It's not formally trained. Why is
he trying to hit that note? You know? Like or like, clearly, Megan,
you're in control of like your instrument, because like in
every scene, I'm just like, how did she do that?

(56:14):
Oh my god. I'm saying this as a way to
like pet myself up a bit because I'm like, that's
really been like in the brain on the brain for
a little bit for me. I'm like, oh am I
even now still Oh yeah, I mean he's the most
famous television show in the world. But yeah, like talk
about pressure, like I can't even imagine truly. Yeah, But

(56:35):
it's that thing where I've I've lost the threat of
like the fun a little bit, and it's kind of like,
and that's purely internal. There are definitely external factors, but like,
I just gotta I just gotta get back on the fun.
It's interesting that you bring that up because I was
watching actually, like the interviews with the whole cast. They
have these really fun like features. Yeah, I watched all
of them. Yeah, and I love the entire cast, So

(56:57):
I watched all of them. But did you see it
was like the three Italian and actresses and Sabrina and
Patratore who plays Valentina. Sorry, I have I have it
to there's something going around, and it's not COVID. I've
taken a million COVID test a day and I barely
have um. But I was watching an interview with her

(57:21):
and she was saying, how you know, when you're an
Italian actor and then you get this big American show
that's like crazy, so like you felt a certain way
about it, and then someone who's like, now I'm going
to be on the world stage for real, and this
is really going to change my career, especially in the
role of the manager, which was done so to Emmy winning.
You know, expert Success by Murray Bartlett, and she said

(57:44):
that she described a situation where she got to set
and she started to have a panic attack, and that
Michael Imperioli came over to her and was like, hey,
you're you're amazing. You're supposed to be here for anybody
who wasn't sure showbiz legend. Truly the kindest, loveliest man.

(58:05):
You get that obsessed with him and his wife, they're
they're amazing and that character too. So I felt so
heartbroken for him when he was walking on the beach
on that last episode and he was then as a disease,
you know what I mean, Like it was sad, like
you know, like I understand by the way that first episode,
like one of the most iconic scenes was when he

(58:27):
gets on the phone with Laura Dern, who's playing the
voice of the wife, and she's absolutely screaming at him.
You're like, what done? And then you realize, like when
you get to the end of five, like he's really sick,
Like he's got a disease, and like you know, you
see him struggle with it and really want to be better,
but he is he is a sex He's a sex

(58:48):
addict to the extent where like he is fully self
destructive and you do see him like angry at his father,
who's f Murray Abram stunning. I mean that scene with
them at dinner when I watched them film that, did you. Yeah.
I was sitting at the monitor like whenever I could sneak. Yeah,
I'm watching cool it Are you kidding me? Um backstage pass? Yeah.

(59:12):
I watched them do that scene and I just cried.
I was like, how and they make it just seems easy. Yeah,
what he said I loved your Mother's like he's like,
I loved your mother. It's not that simple, and Marie
Ambram goes, yes, it is, and he just lays back.
I said, that is a film right there. I was like,
he just just the way the camera sat on him

(59:33):
as he sat back in his chair too. I was like, damn,
this is the ship right there. That was really good
writing of this episode of five, just excellent. I've still
I'm sorry keep bringing it up, Megan, is it Let's see, like,
oh my god. I was like at the spooky moment,
I was glad that Mike also wanted it to be spooky. Yeah,

(01:00:00):
you are a little scarier. That's a little scary. I
also thought there was a little bit of when you
said to Aubrey, like, well, you have to do things
that make you feel better. I thought you were kind
of coming on to her a little bit. I thought
there was a little bit look at oh my god, Like,
first of all, I love Aubrey Plaza, and you know
what it all changed for me? Ingrad goes We Go West.

(01:00:21):
Of course I love that movie. She's so great. She's
really pulling back the live see apparently the premiere it
came up recently and like my into stories, but at
the premiere, like Elizabeth Olsen wears the dress and then
Aubrey Plasa in the same dress, which is such a funny,
totally planned. Yeah, it's such a great comedy. We we

(01:00:42):
almost did something sort of like that in the scene
where we go to NOO and I'm wearing those like
insane space buns. Yeah. She and I were getting ready
to go do that pool scene and she was like,
should I put my hair blackers? And I was like,
So she did it and we went down and of
course Mike was like, I don't care. Yeah, yeah, and

(01:01:05):
then her hair her hair person was like, I don't
think you should do it looks bad. She was like, Okay,
it would have been so cute if you guys had
the same hair. We just thought it was so funny,
like maybe either Daphne did her hair or or she
was just like really trying to hop on board and
was like, too, it would have so much that the pool.

(01:01:29):
I recently shot something where I had to be in
the water. That is a lot during the water for
a long time. Let me tell you about shooting in
the ocean. Let's chat about this. So you opened the
series and it's like, so you're with the two Survivor contestants, which,
by the way, I'm a major Survivor fan. Same, So
did you know Angelina and Kara going in? Like who

(01:01:51):
they were? I watched that season when I got to
sicily with Adam Marco, Yeah, and we were both completely obsessed.
We would a set and asked Mike, so do you
really not have a cheese? Like we wanted to know everything.
And then towards the end, because we shot that scene,
like yes, Mike was like, guess who's who scenes with you?

(01:02:13):
I literally fangirled. They were having dinner one night and
I was like, can I come meet them? They were
amazing and so lovely and they were great. They were
One really funny thing that happened though, was like Angelina
when the body gets pulled from the water. I guess
during one of the days, she was like crying a lot,

(01:02:35):
like an acting and Mike went up to and he
was like, Angela, not stopped crying. He was like, you
don't know this person, it's not sad sharing and she
was like, okay, fine, sorry, like I just was drying something.
It was very like they have such a cute banter.
Seeing him with them was really special because I feel

(01:03:00):
like they just went through this like really specific, crazy
experience and like he they're so close, you know, like
and they still take such good care of each other.
Like he's such a loyal person in my experience, Like
I think he likes to keep his people close to him,
which is like so nice. But yeah, shooting in the
water was like really it's really hard times one a

(01:03:24):
million times, and the water is pretty warm when you
first get into it, but after a while it just
doesn't matter. It's so cold and like running so the
water is really shallow, so we had to go pretty
far out in order for it to be deep enough
for me to like have enough water, So I had
to run like kind of far in to get to

(01:03:44):
the beach and it was so hard. I was getting
to the beach and my knees were like buckling and
I was falling, and Mike was like, I really loved
how you fell, and I was like, great, because I
can't not fall. I was like, that wasn't a choice.
Like my body is literally like I'm getting out of
the water and the resistance is going away and I'm
like collapsing. But yeah, the body next day was a blob,

(01:04:05):
Like were you so damn sore? Yeah, yeah, I can't imagine.
I don't want I don't ever want to do that.
And then for you to have to like emote like
discovery shock discussed, you know, like it was all there too.
It was really good. It was really good. You know,
there was going to be a scene we can reveal
at the end of Fire Island. There was going to
be the original climax was going to be so bowing

(01:04:27):
gets on the ferry and like rides away and he's
going home, and there was going to be a scene
where he'd jumped the ferry and had to swim to
like James fully in the water and they were going
to have like a romantic moment and they had to
cut it because why, like the pH of the water
was like it was too shallow for me to jump
twenty feet up from from the water and it just
was putrid, rancid water. Yeah, and so it was for

(01:04:50):
a good reason. But I was a little bit like
but then also like the logistics of having to do that,
you would have been I would have hated because like
it's not just one well we jump in the water
and swim or we got it on film. It's like
that would have been maybe even two days. Yeah, totally, totally, Yeah,

(01:05:10):
that's intense, very very glad. Oh my god, Well listen,
will you put the good word in for Mike White
to come on this podcast, because like, of course we would,
we would give him a very good interview, like it
would be it would feel like we could always just ask,
but like I feel like we need people to put
it in his ear. That's always the best way to

(01:05:31):
go that. I feel like he would be a great
guest and be love to talk to both of you.
We just truly what a treat both of you and well,
this has been seriously We're obsessed and it's not over yet.

(01:05:54):
We are now transitioning to our final segment, which is
I don't think so, honey. This is that one minute
segment that we do when we take a minute to
rail again something in pop culture that really is needs
to be I have something, I have something to you
go first. As a tradition, this is the first Matt
Rodgers is I don't think so, honey. As time starts now,
I don't think so, honey. The white Lotus is Porsche.

(01:06:18):
We love you, we stand, we support the girl, and
we support the girls, and we think that you are
a young rising talent. But your character is sucking bugging
me boot, Like what do you want because Adam DeMarco,
guess what, Like we saw what he did to Luccia
in that last scene, like he could put it all
the way down. So I'm sorry, but you know what, like,
don't be dirp, but dirp if you don't want to

(01:06:38):
get fucked, because you were being dirp and dirt and
that's why he was giving you nice point energy. Come forward,
come for like you came to Leo Woodall you need
to be giving. We need to turn the body out,
give sexual energy, forward Porsche, and then you would have
gotten fucked by Abbie. And everyone wants to get fun
by the King. I want to get by the King second.

(01:07:00):
I'll be with his curly hair and his beautiful skin.
I'm absolutely obsessed. And you know he's got that five
energy because his father and his grandfather were fun boys.
O G. I don't think isn't even that bad of
a boss that there? I would never want it. I
wouldn't want to be her. Excuse me though, Like I
was watching her in last episode and like Jennifer Coolidge

(01:07:21):
goes over to her and like Tanya says to PORTIONA,
like you're having sex on the boat, aren't you like work?
And then walks away, and I'm like, what's bad about
this boss? She took you to Italy? She said, you
don't even have to work, just go do whatever your
thing is. Just stay at the resort. And you're crying
and upset and mad. Get over yourself, girl? If I
should up as their assistant. And then the first thing
she says to me in the lobby is you gotta

(01:07:42):
get lost. I'm like, I'd be like, what am I
supposed to do? No? I'd be like perfect, and you
know she makes six figures. No, I'm sorry, but as
the assistant to Tanya to to like a wealth. Yeah,
it's like an old money person. She's got half a
billion dollars. I think I think she's got like that's
that's like part of the thing, right, yes, yes, and
so yeah, six figures. Maybe I would venture to guess

(01:08:05):
like nine grand, okay, income, But the fact is, like
you're in Italy on vacation and then she tells you
get lost. She's telling you to stay in your room,
which is the only thing you're not supposed to do
in this Yeah, but guess what then she didn't stay
in her room and she's not fired. You know what

(01:08:27):
I mean. I'm just like hesitated, who's out and about?
Yeah that's true. I mean, listen, I'm just saying, like,
I just I don't like the way she's doing Albi. Yeah,
of course, Albie is a sweet, sweet boy. You know what,
I think a lot of people think he's the killer.

(01:08:47):
That's what people are saying. Yeah, I will say first season,
I wasn't really thinking about who the killer would be.
Second this season, I'm going, oh, the tension is being
so perfectly dialed up for everybody that I'm like A
could be any of them, and that's the fun of
the mystery. I'll tell you what I hated. I hated
when um, when Cameron touched Harper's leg. I hated that

(01:09:12):
and bothered me the most was that I think Harper
worked it a little bit. And then I was putting
myself in harper shoes and I was like, that is
that fucking douche bag? That is like, like, why are
you making me think he's very good at playing that
guy's so he's British. I didn't realize Australian. He's British.

(01:09:32):
Well let me the accent work is work and they're
both a gorgeous man, truly, the whole castutes period all around. Well,
that's how I feel about Ms Porsche. I have a
non weight Lotus. That's actually fine. Okay, we've talked so
much about it, so this is I don't think so,

(01:09:53):
honeyest time starts now, I don't think so, honey. Paper
towels and bathrooms that are stacked on the tray you
have to pull down because otherwise the only choice you
have to make with wet hands is grabbed too many.
No one has the wherewithal to only pluck one or two,
which is all you really need. But everyone gets a

(01:10:13):
little greedy in the bathroom. No one, no one is
above it. No one is above it. That is the
human condition. It's got to be in the dispenser. So
you can only pull down. You have to only be
able to pull down on the paper towel. You cannot
grab up. Do you know what I'm saying can make sense?
We have to fix this. This is this is single
handedly going to kill the planet. It's not billionaires, it's

(01:10:38):
not corporations, it's us. It's individuals in the bathroom grab
and stacks and stacks of pt s and we got
and where there's no overcoming it in the human nature
of it. You know what else is annoying When you
with wet hands go into the thing or grab from
the side and then you leave, you like you realize

(01:10:59):
you made the whole stack wet with your own and
then people. Yeah, and another thing, if a bunch of
paper towels are all wet, then you probably are going
to take all those wet paper towels and throw them
out and waste them and then make a mess when
you're drying your hands and it's just this cyclical thing.

(01:11:21):
Get them off the tray, away from the sink, put
them in the dispenser. Yeah, but then I'm going to
say something else. So you want to just bypass the
paper towels altogether and go to the dry But now
the dryers nowadays are not cut and dry. It's not
just a hole that you put your hands under and
they go. It's like those weird like verticals, like disagonal ones,
the dicing ones, where am I supposed to put my

(01:11:43):
hands to activate this? I'm like this I'm doing and
looking in front of it, trying to get my hands dry.
If this is me with my like trying to get
the electric soap things like? Am I crazy? And then
you start moving from sink to sink, just like moving
your hands under the thing hoping that it will come out.
I mean, what are we? What are we? What are

(01:12:04):
we doing? Also, automatic toilet flushers, No thanks, I got it,
No thanks, I would take care of you. You're missing
your cue? Yeah, hello, get the stage manager in here.
And then of course they all have the little button,
which I'll tell you I did not realize. I thought
when it was an automatic flusher, there was not an
option to flush yourself. I also just learned this. Yeah,

(01:12:25):
I had many anxious moments in public restrooms where I'm like,
I'm going to walk out of here. It's and someone
is waiting and I can't anymore. I just have to
go by and then you run out. But you have
to wash your hands an obstacle, Oh my god. Whatever.
There was a whole plot pointing Gray's Anatomy season two.

(01:12:45):
By the way, she just announced she's done. I know,
did you hear that? Time to walk away at night seasons?
I love that woman. Listen. One of the best episodes
of television was what was Callie? Didn't wash your hands?
She's a surgeon? Was big drama? That was Pete Grays
when it was drama dy when it was kind of
a comedy, kind of a drama. Were you ever on Grays?

(01:13:07):
I was never. Why don't I think you guest starred
on Grays? I love that you give Grays energy. Yeah,
well I think I saved all of my guest star
wish energy for spu. Yes, and we multiple times. Just

(01:13:28):
one this one? Was it a good one? It was
a very good one. What was it? I had a
chess piece that said one wild ride. Okay, yeah, oh
my god, and a kid? Yes, who are you seeing? Partners?
Mariska Kelly? Kelly? What is what is the Mariska vibe? Queen?

(01:13:52):
She was so lovely to me. She also ways deeply funny.
Was ripping jokes all day, which is kind of genius
when you think about it, It's probably a very necessary
thing for her, so heavy and dark. Um, she just
had everybody cracking up the whole day and she was

(01:14:13):
just great, Well, now we're going to crack open a
new I don't think so, honey. With Megan, are you
do you have a you have a topic? I do.
I'm nervous that I can't speak about it for a minute.
But let's see what happen. You're people find that they
have so much more to say than they ever can
think about these things that shag at them. A little controversial.
I talked to my friend, she'll be about it on

(01:14:34):
my way here, and she disagrees with what I'm about
to say. May or may not be the end of
our friendship. We love discord, we love discourse, discord and discourse. Okay,
maybe not all right, this is Megan phase. I don't
think so, honey, her time starts. Now, I don't think so, honey,

(01:14:55):
hot coffee, okay, don't know. And he gave me hot.
I was like, hot coffee is a scam. Hot coffee
is never hot. And beyond that, as a society, we
do nothing to support coffee being hot. Have you ever
been in a restaurant and asked for a hot coffee

(01:15:16):
and had it served to you in a device that
is meant to help that thing stay hot. The only
thing it's supposed to be is hot, and they're giving
us paper mugs, they're giving us glass, whatever, porcelain, nothing.
It doesn't keep it hot. I always get ice coffee
because it comes cold and it stays cold, and I
like to know what I'm in for. It sounds really great.

(01:15:39):
But this coffee that I have right here was warm
four fifteen seconds and now it's not even cold. It's
like tepid. It's disgusting. Yeah, exactly. So I think that
America runs on Duncan. But does it that a set

(01:16:00):
six America runs duck but found dead? All right? Wait,
this actually is a huge almost because now you're a
true ally, because as we know, gay people are ice coffee,
and so that's something important to say, and also I
want to reveal something. So when I was younger, when
I was a little boy on the sixth grade, my

(01:16:20):
science fair experiment was what type of um container would
keep something hot or cold the longest. The answer styrofoam.
And you're gonna get sick and you're gonna poison the
environment everything else. The results were so bleak. Hot things
became cold very quickly, so fast, so fast. And that's

(01:16:43):
the thing with hot, it becomes cold. It becomes cold.
That's the thing with hot, it becomes cold. My thing lately,
just one little shot of espresso. You take it to
the hat and then you don't have to worry about
it cooling or anything. It's just hard. That's so European.
It's very Italian. I it's very Italian, and I kind

(01:17:06):
of feel it feels right. Even if I drink coffee.
I don't know if it's really hitting the receptors anymore. Yeah,
now that we're used to cold brew, I think it's
time to move on. I really do from cold brew
as a culture. Why it's driving us crazy, Well, honey,
I knew that I have too. I'm a killing machine.

(01:17:26):
There you go. I'm not even killing yeah, why is
it like lighter fluid? Like what is happening with the
caffeine level. Someone said to me yesterday, I'm on my
second cold brew and I looked down on my phone.
It was like like what, no one's ever like, I'm
glad I did that. No, when I didn't know what
cold brew was, when I didn't know it was different
than nice coffee. I once drank two like in a row.

(01:17:48):
I thought it was attack. I felt like I was
on Molly. I felt like I was working, you know,
the Boys and White Lotus. Yeah, well that's a great
way to process two cold bruise. I think if I
did that, start like sweating and crying. It wasn't shaking.
It was like that. I mean it was it was
like a not good experience. And I was like, okay,
can't do that again. Now I understand, Like I just

(01:18:09):
didn't realize. I thought that poll brew was a new
name we were giving nice coffee. No, No, I was wrong.
You were deeply wrong. Can we talk about really quickly
because you just you brought up the boys on Molly.
I'm obsessed with the girls, But Sabrina or Simona, sorry,
Simona Tobasco Luccia. She's she's a star. She is terry star,

(01:18:32):
just alive in every moment. Also not for nothing, but
like she didn't speak much English when she started the show,
and I hate that I'm thinking about this, but I'm like,
I couldn't give if I was acting in a different
in a language that I did not speak that well,
I don't know that I would be able to like
give it this. That's the thing that's so impressive about

(01:18:53):
her presence and what she brings to the character because
I can't even imagine how difficult that would have been
for her. Like no and her family speaks English. She
learned so much and even just like when I saw
her for the premiere, she's like so good. I mean,
she's and just like as an actress, Like watching her,

(01:19:13):
I'm just like, you've got the special thing where like
you just walking across the frame is like effective, like
it just does something. She's alive in every moment. There
was a moment where she went over to the bar
to order a drink, and just the way that she
was behaving, I was like, this, hell is really she's
really the two of them together and so cute story.

(01:19:38):
They are really close friends. In real life, they're on
like an Italian show together. They put each other on
tape and Mike had no idea and cast them without knowing,
and then they both saw it. Isn't that so sweet?
They put each other on tape for it? I know,

(01:20:00):
but you know what, I think you remember? I remember.
I think they might have mentioned that in the interview
that I was watching with Sabrina, because they were all
sort of like talking about how the Italian style of
acting is actually very different from the American style of acting.
The Italian style of acting is more like you really
play and you give like a picture, whereas like the
American style of acting is obviously like you know, we're

(01:20:21):
really delving into the being and the living as the person.
You know. It's just different in Italy. And so this
was a different opportunity for them because it was yeah,
and I'm saying, like, there's so much going on under
the surface, and I'm just like really having a blast
watching that. I'm super excited for the three of them.
It's really cool. And you know what's interesting you say

(01:20:43):
that she didn't speak English that well, because even in
this interview that I watched of them, like there was
a couple of times that she just starts speaking Italian
because you can tell she's not comfortable with the language.
And it's funny because on the show it seems like
her character Lucia is more comfortable speaking English than Mia. Meanwhile,
that actress whose name is yeah, yeah, she's stunned, so

(01:21:07):
she actually spooks the most perfect English in the show.
She has a hard time. Yeah, is that interesting? Yeah,
but it's it's a characters like Lucia is a bit
more like free wheeling and then me as a little
bit more like she's had to enterprise a lot with
American guests. That means so. And we were also talking

(01:21:27):
about how we love the depiction of sex work in
the show as just something that these people do, you
know what I mean. It's not like shamed anyway, even
the American guests, like of course they refer to them
as hookers, like whatever. There's still that like a little
bit of whatever. But the show is very like these
are girls that this is what they do for a living.
They're they're not ashamed of it. And of course, like
later on in this season, you see that their reality

(01:21:49):
is a little dark, like with whoever Seo, who was
ever like managing their operation, but like it's very respectful
for Trayal. Yeah, I don't think Mike is commenting on it.
They're just characters whose job is in sex work. Yeah,
so I think that's unique. You know, it's not like
they don't exist to comment on that dynamic. There's no commentary,

(01:22:10):
which is great. And also what's what I love is
that those characters seem to be the bridge for all
the people, for all the characters, like they're the ones
who are the most mobility in terms of different groups,
and that's that's such a great way of storytelling in
this season that we're obsessed. Yeah, I texted like the
characters are overlapping like the way that everyone is now

(01:22:33):
because I've been waiting for that. And it's also like
a beautiful slow burn, like excellent. You know. Who I
really think, though, is going to be like the breakout
of the whole thing is Leo Ye. Like fully, I
think he's going to be like James Bond. He's got
it to Yeah, he has an effortless sex appeal, charm

(01:22:56):
on camber pops his like beautiful light eyes me you
sbolutely stunning. And also it's like if there was going
to be a character that pulls you away again. Perfect cast.
Know what I mean. It's like if I if I'm
with someone and like dating them every single day of
a trip, and then that guy comes in, Yeah, who's
not leaving with that guy? Actually watched port and then

(01:23:17):
I don't think sunny myself, take it back, I get it,
like you're a human woman, girl, Like, come on, is
unbelievable anyway. The White Lotus is obviously airing on HBO.
You can stream it by HBO max. Is it Sunday Nights?
Yea Sunday Nights. And the fucking breakout star is Megan Fahan.
We're so excited that everyone's this was so fun. You

(01:23:40):
guys are unbelievable. I thank you for having me, and
you know that we we didn't even talk about how
we literally met at Vulture Fest, like several years we
interviewed you guys. Wait, yeah, that was us. We were there.
We were the video interviewers from from this was after
the after making Market married. The day that Megan Mark

(01:24:01):
got married was when we met you Asia and Katie,
And we didn't even talk about how I met you
at Betty whose concert at Yes, I did remember that
was the night I got with Jared. Yeah, this is
so funny, personal history. It's all a very small world.
Love it. We adore and thank you so much for

(01:24:22):
being here. And we end every episode with a song,
Is there anyone trying to find me? Well, Toby, come
take me? It's a trying won't you take me? Don't

(01:24:45):
know who you are now if you want to hear
Avril absolutely well the final chorus, and we will give
her credit on this. Wee listen to the album let
Go by Avril Leviv by

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.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}"Avril Lavigne In A Tie" (w/ Meghann Fahy)