“Climbing Cringe Mountain” (w/ Matt & Bowen)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look Mayer, Oh, I see you my own and look
over there.

Speaker 2 (00:05):
How is that culture?

Speaker 1 (00:06):
Yes? Wow, lost culture.

Speaker 2 (00:10):
Danged lost.

Speaker 1 (00:14):
Lost Coca nutties, as it were three of these girls.

Speaker 2 (00:19):
I mean, not that long ago was it bit on
this show that this was gonna be a talking Biden podcast.
I don't think it's gonna be talking coconuts. I don't
think it's gonna be talking context. I don't think it's
gonna be talking unburdening. Recording this on Monday, July twenty second,
and gosh, just over twenty four hours ago, we were

(00:42):
rocked by the news, and I'm both engaged in a
way that I have not been in a long time,
and I'm also like completely overwhelmed, and I'm like I
need to maybe get off this train. But it's not
the time for that.

Speaker 1 (00:54):
Yeah, I mean I think that certainly. Steve Kornaki has
appeared on my television for the first time in many months,
and I said, we are so back. You know what
I thought about today? Oh, by the way, I'm hitting
that blunt in just a second. You know what I
thought about today? I literally had like a moment where
I almost drove off the road thinking about like how triggered.
I'm going to be when I hear the word maracopa,
you know, like once we start getting into it, and

(01:16):
just knowing that we're headed there, which is of course,
in the macro like a very scary thought. And I
think in the micro, I actually am feeling very celebratory
and very hopeful and very excited. But there is so
much left to go, and therefore, like I do completely
identify with your overwhelm, because I mean, even in the
two days between when we record this and when this

(01:37):
comes out, who knows what's even gonna happen. It's just crazy.
Someone made a joke like, oh, I bet in ten
days we're gonna forget Trump was even like almost assassinated,
and it bizarrely feels true. Everything is happening so fast.

Speaker 2 (01:52):
We just have to I hope that there is kind
of a straight line all the way to middle aguess.
Hm hm, but who fucking knows. I mean, you can't sit.

Speaker 1 (02:06):
Well, you can't write it. I mean, truth is truly
stranger than fucking fiction, for sure.

Speaker 2 (02:12):
I'm smoking a new Flamer joint, a pre roll from
flameor this Queer Run. I'm looking at their website. A
bunch of hotties founded this.

Speaker 1 (02:21):
Love that And can I say, is this the same
way that you were smoking yesterday? Because you know, my
girl was happy, jovial and more.

Speaker 2 (02:28):
Can you talk about this because I think and this
is the first time I felt this way in a
long time. By the way, I put Flamor next to
Sunday School, sort of the West Coast equivalent, although they
are kind of making making in roads in the East.
But but I left our little meeting yesterday, we had

(02:49):
a little work session yesterday and I was coming in
stone because oh this is man, I don't think so money.
My body is just fucked and I don't know why
I need. I need to get to the bottom of it.
But I was like, I need a little bit of city,
but get me up and activated. And I was like,
Gabe Levin has this joke where he's like, this thing
happens to me when I drink where I'm amazing, amazing,

(03:12):
And that's how I felt leaving that session yesterday. I
was like, that was I was a very good version.

Speaker 1 (03:17):
Of myself stoned in that situation. I just love to
see you so happy, and I mean, that's that's what
I'm reacting to, is like you were happy and like
you seemed like yeah, I was just so happy to
see you in this mode. And also wasn't that like
that was about fifteen minutes after he had announced.

Speaker 2 (03:33):
That was literally fifteen minutes after he announced.

Speaker 1 (03:36):
And so I remember, by the way, just like finding
out from an Instagram threat, like finding out on Instagram
is honest wild. I want to know if you found
out from like pop Crave, email in, and by email in,
I mean get our attention in some way online, like
because I know that pop Crave whatever the fuck like
that all these social yeah, that they were breaking these people,

(04:00):
and because that is the world that we live in.
But you know, just to speak broadly about it, this
is what we wanted and will I will not lie.
When I saw that he posted that, I felt a
moment of deep sadness and concern about what was going
to happen because there was not an explicit endorsement of her.
I didn't know in that moment if that's what exactly

(04:22):
I wanted or needed. I always knew she was super
viable for it, but there was a moment of like, wow,
this sort of direct action that we all participated in
to ensure that he was not going to be the
one on the ballot because I just haven't felt confident
about it in a very long time and couldn't pretend

(04:43):
it happened. It was very sobering, you know what I mean.
And so then a half an hour later when he
did endorse her, and the endorsement started to come and
the energy started to pick up, and you saw at
least what feels like right now feels like more unity
than we have had. Not to say that she doesn't
have her issues, but it felt amazing to just feel

(05:05):
like it was possible that we would retain our democracy
and that it was possible that we would potentially maybe
end this story in the way that it should have
ended in twenty sixteen, in the way that you know,
maybe things were meant to be. I mean, I will say,

(05:26):
it does feel like Donald Trump, white collar thug, convicted felon, racist, rapist,
predator versus Kamala Harris, prosecutor, black woman, Indian woman who's
rising up as a new leader of this party. It

(05:46):
does feel like the last chapter. It kind of does
feel like we're about to.

Speaker 2 (05:52):
It's giving series finale, and it's giving serious finale.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
It's giving Big Boss and I pray, and I am
truly hope and I'm hopeful we will have an ending
that is a positive one, and I mean that, and
I am fully on board and will work very hard
as hard as I can to make sure that Kamala
Harris is elected president because the alternative is not acceptable.

Speaker 2 (06:20):
Thank you for putting it in those words. I think
we are untangling a lot of words and texts and
thoughts and ideas right now in this moment. I'm seeing
a lot of stuff. I think I have a decent
birth the e r thh of like a social media

(06:43):
sort of like glimpse.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
You certainly do.

Speaker 2 (06:47):
But who am I to say? But a lot of
people what A lot of what I'm seeing now is
people being like great but also bummer that this was
sure like the thing it's it was never about like
his policies. It was always about his electability. And it's like, yes,
that's not that makes sense in an election. To be
concerned about electability makes total sense. It is not something

(07:08):
to like discredit any part of this process that like
shouldn't have happened, except it should have. But you know
what I mean, It's like it's set like we're all
bummed that it happened, except but it had to happen
this way, and right there is like a decent outcome
on the other side of this, is there's an even
great outcome on the other side of this. No matter
how you feel about Kamala Harris, it's like she has

(07:29):
demonstrated the capacity to move leftward on things, even though
for every progressive policy she's been a part of, there
seems to be like a conservative one that outweighs it.
And that's like a totally fair thing to level against her.
But let's just I think we really do need to
do some collective exercise in like putting that into compartment
for now. And I know we said this like four

(07:51):
years ago about Joe, but it's like feels even more
dire than that. And there is no option of losing.
There is no option of losing, And that's what we
have to remember. And like AOC put it perfectly, there
is no progressive enough candidate right now to win and
beat Donald Trump. But like you just have to think

(08:11):
about between these two people whose presidency do you want
to organize under? Do you want to be active under?
Do you want to like try to like push things
in a certain way under I think there's a clear
choice here, and that.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
There is one choice, I mean, and I would say
if you hedge on that choice, then you're not thinking
about people much more vulnerable than you. And I do
think that is the way we have to vote. Fucking Brooklyn.
Gay guys have to think about trans people in the
middle of this country. You have to think about black women,

(08:44):
you have to think about low income people. We have
to and I by all means vent your frustrations about
what is happening, but fucking vote for her.

Speaker 2 (08:54):
Yes, yes, And I also think I think we can
engage on this like for the next hundred days or
so in a way that is like what I find
effective is like just reframing things. And like anytime I
feel like from either side I'm being like moralized, proselytized,
like getting a finger wagged in my face, that I'm like,

(09:14):
I'm totally disengaging, like I've right whatever. Anyone feels like
they are being chastised in some way in this kind
of conversation and this kind of discourse like that does
not seem to be effective, And so I feel like
maybe as a lost culture exercise for everybody, for readers.
Katie's pulicis finalists.

Speaker 1 (09:30):
Like.

Speaker 2 (09:30):
The way you try to engage around this if someone
does seem to be pushing back, is just to like
reframe it in that exact way where you're like, well,
what would it be like to try to like make
positive things happen on a collective level in one outcome
versus another? Like that is that that's helpful to me?

Speaker 1 (09:49):
And I would also say I don't think and I've
we have been We've really not weighed in, you know
what I mean, We really weighed in. But I did
come out and say I did not vote for him
in the primary. I have been trying to send small
messages to the top and the way that I can.
You know, I was called the other day to fundraise
for Biden, and I politely told the person on the

(10:10):
other end of the phone, while I would be voting
for the Democratic candidate, I don't feel I can send
money until something is done. And something was done, and
I would imagine they heard that a lot. And now
what I would say is that everyone's opinion matters, but
there are facts here, just like the way Joe Biden's
feelings don't matter, his feelings don't matter. I understand that

(10:33):
he might be angry, he might feel very sad and
depressed about this. He might have a lot to look
at in terms of where he's actually at, the way
that politics works. I mean, he should know more than anyone.
He might feel a certain way. His feelings don't matter.

Speaker 2 (10:52):
Just like our feelings don't matter.

Speaker 1 (10:53):
And that's kind of what I'm getting to is, it's
like you can have feelings, they don't actually matter. The
facts matter. It matters that we live in this world
and we exist in this world, and we do what
we need to do, which is we get this man
off the world stage. And just to speak about her,

(11:15):
she is left of Biden. She is, and many people
do believe he is the most progressive president we've ever had.
Lots of people on the news who you know, may
have a reason to say this, feel that this was,
you know, by far, the most successful presidency of all
time in these four years. I do think there's a
lot of you know, we're leaning on it. What is

(11:37):
happening in gods are the humanitarian crisis. There are weighs
heavy on my heart, know that, and we must work
harder for the cease fire. At the end of the
day Trump would burn the world. He would burn the world.
And listen to me now, if you are listening to
this podcast and hedging, uh, I want to cradle your

(12:01):
face in my hands. He would watch you die, sweetheart,
He would watch you die. And I don't say that
to scare you, but if it did, okay, you can't
like And I'm now militant about it. Actually, And you know,
I didn't need more reasons to be angry of Teresa Judaice,

(12:22):
but I did see her just like Amber Roses Instagram.
Get that woman off my television asap. We're done with Trump.

Speaker 2 (12:32):
With l Larca Pippen, You're burnt your toast.

Speaker 1 (12:38):
Toast and if we see you, what's on site. I
just can't with these clowns. I can't deal with all these.

Speaker 2 (12:49):
All these hoes. I can't deal.

Speaker 1 (12:51):
What do you think about Kamala being brack coded?

Speaker 2 (12:53):
Now here's my honest take.

Speaker 1 (12:56):
Go on.

Speaker 2 (12:57):
I think the the coconut tree memes were on a
parallel track to like all the Edgeball remixes. I mean,
I'm not like like that was like and then I
think what's happened? And the then diagram as it were,
like it all started to become one circle, and I
think like all the arms and tentacles of this thing

(13:20):
have like collapsed into one shape. And the shape right
now is oh, okay, I guess Kamala HQ is running
with Brat visuals, with Brat girls summer, with all these things.
My honest, honest emotional response, and again my feelings don't matter,
and so maybe my thoughts don't matter. But I am

(13:41):
flashing back in trauma too. Is this our Pokemon go
to the poles? Is this the moment like Pokemon go
to the polls?

Speaker 1 (13:48):
For me?

Speaker 2 (13:49):
That's all. I think they were hot off the heels
of the Charlie tweet and maybe that's what's going on.
And I'm sure they will change it in like I
hope a week or something to some thing totally different
and like not quite a right.

Speaker 1 (14:02):
Let's not have brat coded visuals in October.

Speaker 2 (14:05):
No, no, no.

Speaker 1 (14:08):
But you know what I will say, someone as fucking
cool and relevant and progressive and you know, international as
her coming out right away. That's different than I think
we've seen in a long time, and it actually makes
me very hopeful that not we're gonna get in line,

(14:30):
you know what I mean? It's not that, it's just
that we're taking this seriously in a way that's bigger
than us. And if it convinces people who are still
trying to be too cool for this, then maybe they
should take it more seriously, because at least mother is
you know what I mean, like, then I'm for it.

(14:52):
I don't know if I need Kamala doing the apple dance.
I don't want to see it.

Speaker 2 (14:57):
There is a line.

Speaker 1 (14:58):
I think her best move is to ignore all of
the memes, give a moment or two of acknowledging coconuts
or unburdened or whatever, and really stay above it and
be presidential and just hold Trump accountable and stay very
focused on the task at hand, which is still a
very difficult thing, which is defeating Donald Trump. And I

(15:21):
think let the internet have fun because it seems to
be working in a healthy way at this point.

Speaker 2 (15:27):
It can turn so quickly, as we know, if what
we're fearing is she leans in a little bit too
hard on this at an event or something, and you're like, right, oh,
and at that point it's fully pokemon go to the polls.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
I was having a lot of fun on TikTok yesterday.
I was suddenly very active on TikTok. I don't know,
I see that, don't And there was a lot of
judgment in the voice. There was there was a lot
of judgment in the voice. And I'll just call it
no because I'm in my truthfulearra.

Speaker 2 (15:56):
My tone is you are not going to let and
I love you for this, You're not gonna let my tone,
and which let's say I did have a tone. I
vehemently deny that I had a tone and that I
was judging you. But let's say I was. You wouldn't
let that stop you?

Speaker 1 (16:09):
No, Oh, certainly not. But I will say I was
having a lot of fun on TikTok, and I did
find myself sort of giving something like this, you my
lan trap, but my kick is Kamala. And then I
realized so much works with her name, so much works
with her name, too much works with her name, And
I was like, listen, if we can sort of I

(16:33):
don't know if this is a word celebritize her. And
there is a lot with her that works for this.
I mean with Kamala Harris, what you do get is
a sort of glam factor. You get a Saturday Night
Live characterization that isn't sorry, like depressing or pathetic, you
know what I mean. Like it's not like, oh, look
at this clown who's asleep or this monster who's like

(16:57):
thank god they found someone to do like what actually
kind of a measured characterization of him, Like I think
he does an amazing job. I don't think that Alec
Baldwin Trump worked at all because it was just so
broad and scary and monstrous and weird that it so
obviously came from a place of like it just it

(17:19):
wasn't working with Maya and Kamala. I think what you
get is a really fun game, which is she is
a glamazon who maybe is you know, a capital P politician,
and that there's a little bit of ego there. But
you don't get a sense that she's like dumb, you

(17:40):
don't distrust the person doing it. You're actually quite excited
to see the person coming on and doing it, which
I think there's a historical president for at that show.

Speaker 2 (17:50):
What I don't think is precedented is that if you
take Hillary, it's like the characterization there and maybe that's
this just speaks to like the way that it was
accumulating through decades of political life. Like the characterization was
like she's shrill, she's bullish, she's like un not likable

(18:13):
in all these ways, right right, and like who knows
what the dialogue is there, it's hard to parts at
the dialogue there between like the reality and like the
sketch character of it. But between Kamala and Maya, it's like, well,
these are like two like personable people, and like Maya's
characterization was never like and this is the credit to

(18:33):
people who've helped work on that character. Cough cough, Sudie Green, Yes,
but it's like, this is not a shrill this is
not like an unlikable, detestable, fucking suckubus of a woman.
That like kind of at that like between Hillary and
Sarah Palin, which is like I think like the last
big the other big like female political impersonation on that

(18:55):
show in recent memory. It's like those are like charricatures
that get blown up to like literally ridiculous proportions. They
are ridiculing these people. With Kamala and with my it's
like there is something very that feels nice on the palette.
Is how I'm gonna put.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
It's fun to watch, you know what I mean? And
I will say I did always enjoy the Hillary on
the show, but I will say I do think that
and this is obviously you have to make it funny first,
and it was always funny. But sometimes I worry about
like feeding into, you know, a characterization that like reinforces

(19:38):
a negative opinion of that person. Yeah, now, mind you
on a show like that, it is equal time whatever
that means. It's like, I don't know about inviting the
candidate on because correct me if I'm wrong, you have
to have both on if one of them comes on.

Speaker 2 (19:53):
Ah, that's not true.

Speaker 1 (19:54):
Oh is it not true? Or like at different times? Obviously, right, right, correct,
I don't on the same episode. I thought I remembered
something about like if one candidate comes on, you have
to have the other one on.

Speaker 2 (20:06):
Oh I'm not even sure about that. But yeah, yes,
Hillary came and then Trump hosted the same president the
same election, and then.

Speaker 1 (20:13):
Remember that Reality Holy Funs literally went to that show,
went to that taping anyway, and then I guess Obama
and John Mckinneyeah, okay, so well, because I don't think
Biden came through, right.

Speaker 2 (20:27):
Biden never went.

Speaker 1 (20:28):
No, Biden has never, at least in the last since
two thousand and eight has never been on us at all, right,
So I feel like there's something to that, and maybe
the fact that it is different now, it's like I
feel like, you might we may have enough with just
Maya's Kamala and you know, the Trump that we've had

(20:50):
on that show for a while. It might be enough.
You may not need the real candidate to come through,
And especially if it's a situation where, well, if she's
gonna come through, then I have to come through, or
at least have the I would imagine that you know
he's going to take that option, though I will say
I do think there is enough anger from the Trump

(21:12):
people and there's enough disdain for media that I can
see them passing on that opportunity. Similarly to how I
can kind of see him backing out of this debate
and you see him sort of planning the seeds.

Speaker 2 (21:25):
Now, Oh, he's not debating her. He's never debating her,
you don't think. So there's a reason why people who
get prosecuted a trial usually don't.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Take the stand.

Speaker 2 (21:35):
Usually don't take the stand because, like a prosecutor knows
what questions to ask or how to like elicit a
response out of someone, anyone they're talking to.

Speaker 1 (21:45):
Basically, Yeah, then I don't know if this is true,
but I hope it's true that if he doesn't want
to participate in a scheduled debate, that she still gets
that time on national television to address the nation, because
I am sure she is obviously itching to do that
and obviously would relish the opportunity to prosecute him live
in front of America as the felin white collar thug

(22:08):
that he is and actually hold him accountable and call
him out on the litany of bullshit that our current
president was unable to do, which is why we could
not move forward with him. So now you have the
whole Trump organization running scared because I mean, this old
campaign video from twenty twenty came out, and she was

(22:32):
not a good candidate then in the totality of things,
But there is a moment, and there is a time
for that moment to be met, and that kind of
feels like now when you look at this old video
of her being like, you know, and this is where
you kind of appreciate that she is a cop and
a prosecutor because she puts people like him away in

(22:52):
her sleep. She eats people like him for breakfast. She
did have that one very good debate which birth the
that little girl was Me moment, and then she quickly
sort of plummeted in the polls. I think because Tulsa
Gabbard pulled some bullshit on her. One of the biggest
flops in modern history. Tulsea Gabbard, I mean, give me

(23:15):
a fucking break. But we won't talk about this whole
episode in the grand scheme of things, it's just nice
to feel like there's a path forward, and it's nice
to feel like on the other side of all this cringe,
there's gonna be nirvana. And they say that about cringe,
and it's my favorite thing I've learned recently, which is,
you know, you have to sometimes climb up a huge

(23:37):
hill of cringe, and once you can scale that hill,
which is, you know, it might be your judgment on yourself,
it might be your judgment on what you're doing. It
might be everyone saying what you're doing is cringe. On
the other end, there is you slide down into happiness
in nirvana. And I'm not saying things would be fucking
perfect afterwards, but we'd have a country.

Speaker 2 (23:59):
I know about working through cringe climbing a cringe mountain.
I work at Saturday fucking Night Live, the cringiest thing
in show business on every level.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
Climbing cringe Mountain. Title of f climbing.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Cringe Mountain, cringe mountain is SNL eternally grateful that I
work there will be the defining thing of my life
and career. And yet it is a cringe mountain because
to live through working at SNL and to have people
constantly tell you how much it sucks, how bad it is,
how it's not as good as it used to be

(24:34):
for your career. You that has to do something to
you psychologically where you emerge and go I don't give
a fuck.

Speaker 1 (24:44):
I feel like, you know what it is. It's like
y'all put on wigs and you go all your hard.
It's not even but it's not even cringe because of
what you do, because I don't think it's cringe. But
I will say in what I'm saying, which is that
everyone has a fucking opinion. It's the most popular show
in the world. It's been now been on for fifty years.

(25:07):
It is capital see commercial culture, and therefore it's cringe
because everyone is like, I'm having something to say, and
it's comedy, and it's subjective, and it's corporate and you
know what I mean, and it's all those things. And
that's also what we're kind of going through. But on
the other side of it, guess what, Bowen, you get

(25:28):
to actually the visceral thing of people laugh, people feel good,
and that is why we're doing this, and that is
why America is worth saving, so that we can protect
people and live up to what this actually all is
fucking about. And now it's getting very broad, but I'm
just saying, like to you, to me, to everyone, fucking

(25:51):
get over yourselves and like work at what you do
and be proud of what you do, and be proud
of who you are, and be proud that you know
what's right and wrong. Us King to put it mildly, bless.

Speaker 2 (26:04):
Bless, I just want to say one more thing.

Speaker 1 (26:06):
I want you to say so many things.

Speaker 2 (26:09):
I just want to say one more thing about the
cringe theory as it relates to my job and not
the fate of this country. So I'm sorry to like
you know.

Speaker 1 (26:15):
Yeah, the way I sort of like melded those two things,
but I do think I.

Speaker 2 (26:18):
Do know you really you really brought it home. That
was such a slagh. This is what you, me and
Sudy have been saying for such a long time. Like
all of these fucking guys who like go up on
stage and do stand up or would do improvert sketch,
like we know this person this let's say he's straight.
These guys were like, h, I don't know, Like what

(26:39):
I do is cool and edgy. No, bitch, you go
on stage and you talk in a microphone in front
of people.

Speaker 1 (26:45):
That is theater, which is gay. It's gay, so just
embrace it. Don't like like that's the analog for cringe
in this context. It's like I'm over these people who
are just like I don't know. It's like, just do
it so that you can, like every now and then
you do something because it's not cool and because it

(27:06):
actually benefits something outside of you, even though it is
locked into all these other like terrible oppressive systems. The
motion is up at whatever access, Okay, like just like
just do it. Oh, can I tell you something? Can
I tell you something? I'm a singing Christmas comedian, I'm cringe.

(27:30):
I'm Matt Rogers. I'm cringe, and people buy tickets to
my shit and I see them afterwards, and they're living,
and you know who else is living me? It's my
fucking dream. And had I not climbed the cringe mountain,
I wouldn't be looking at my fucking vinyl over there.
And I'm not saying this because I feel like I

(27:50):
did something which you did. I'm saying this because I'm
happier for having gotten out of my own way and
not giving a fuck about the bullshit. So what I'm
saying is, get out of your own way, stop giving
a fuck about the bullshit, climb the cringe mountain that
is this election, and that is Kamala often because now
guess what, she's fucking brat coded and if you think

(28:14):
that's cringe, your feelings don't matter. We're gonna save the world, period.
And now I've hit my blunt. If it has not
been obvious, what else has happened? Has anything else happened?

(28:37):
I haven't. I don't think it's money that sort of
reallyd did this just because there's one figure in politics
that if I ever hear his name again, and it's
not even it's not even one of the top five
you're thinking about, maybe it is, but like, ugh, we'll
get to it. Okay, what else? Oh, Remy Wolf period.

Speaker 2 (28:55):
Soup girl, where have you been? This is not quite
as egregious because I think what Matt Rogers will dine
out on for the rest of his life is to
say that he introduced hordes of people to Chapel Round.
This is not quite the same thing. But I've been
up in this podcast shouting at Remy Wolf for a bit.

Speaker 1 (29:13):
You definitely have. In fact, last week I called out
a different Remy Yes and her summer song, and you
were like Remy Wolf, and I was like, oh no,
but also yes. And I have been aware of Remy
Wolf for quite a while, but someone I dated liked her.
I think I might have been George.

Speaker 2 (29:29):
George loves Remy Yeah, And so.

Speaker 1 (29:33):
I've been a Remy Wolf fan in a soft sense.
But now, like this new record, it's really great and
she deserves to take her place. And I am excited
about seeing her live because I heard she puts on
the show.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
She puts on the show. You need to go go
back and listen to her old albums all the way
through like this, Oh, I certainly will start to finish
wonderful songwriting.

Speaker 1 (29:57):
Yeah, And by the way, with the Chapel rowing of
it all. I am just happy that people got on
board in the way they have. It doesn't even matter
for me because you know, you don't know, you don't
every single time I say listen, it was a straight
man that told me about her. And I say his
name with my full chest, Matthew Vaughn, and I say

(30:19):
he is due the respect because he actually tried several times,
and I was like, girl, please, like, I don't know
who that is, and I just can't have you introduce
it popularly to me. He was right, he was right.
Sometimes you have to listen to these straight men like
sometimes they might yeah, they might really know something. And
this one knows he knows something about multiple things. Careful

(30:42):
the things.

Speaker 2 (30:42):
You say careful children will listen, children listen. What else
has happened? I've had such a crazy fucking week of
my body. Here's what's going on since Italy?

Speaker 1 (30:53):
For what do you think it is? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (30:55):
I don't know. I mean, it's not a bad thing
on its face, like me being like a warning person,
but I am like only getting like six hours of sleep,
which I know is like a clean rem cycle thing,
but it's like I do want to feel refreshed, and
I have not felt refreshed in a way.

Speaker 1 (31:11):
That's a lot for you. Well, I just fix is
a lot for you girl? Not you like it was
probably last year or six months ago, eight months ago
where you said just plainly that you're used to four.
We need to figure that out. Is that anxiety you
think or like are you before bed? Like what do

(31:32):
you think it is about the sleep?

Speaker 2 (31:35):
I think it might be anxiety. It might be my mattress.
I think I might have to spop out the mattress
for something softer, because yeah, we were shooting a month
ago and I was I was laying down in a
bed for a scene and it was a soft.

Speaker 1 (31:51):
Mattress and I kind of went, wait a minute. You
were like, maybe this is what I've needed all along.

Speaker 2 (31:57):
It's that thing. It was right under your nose the
whole time, not to dapt mattresses.

Speaker 1 (32:03):
No, literally, I'm telling you that might be it, because Okay,
I'm gonna reveal I actually avoid my apartment in New
York now and I think it's actually coloring my New
York experience because that mattress hurts me. And this is
another thing I'll say about Barry's boot Camp. I am
obsessed with Barry's boot Camp. I really feel like I

(32:26):
look the best I have and I'm so galvanized and
I love going. It is just hard on your body
if you're not really taking a long time to stretch.
And about a month ago, I was being really relaxed
about the stretching and sleeping on a bed in New
York that was, let's say, very firm, because the person

(32:50):
that owns that place has not a great back and
needs a very firm mattress. I don't have that until
I'm not stretching and I sleep on a bad mattress.
I am now sort of obsessed with LA again, solely
because of the mattress here, which is what let me
tell you a helix midnight clap clap clap. Not trying

(33:10):
to do an ad, but I am giving testimonial in
many different ways and saying this actually is the shit.
And my sister got one too, and she's happier than ever.
Billie Eilish, Hmmm, that sounds like Billie Eilish was your
sister there for a second. I don't think that we are,
but I'll do the twenty three in me Mmm.

Speaker 2 (33:32):
Eilish Irish yes, I am just recalibrating things right now.
I really am trying to get gut health in check.

Speaker 1 (33:46):
Yeah. I literally I ordered a pooping kit. Yeah, I
got a poop. I gotta scoop. I gotta send it
back to the lab. Oh, so you're you're doing it.
You're pooping in a bag.

Speaker 2 (33:57):
I'm pooping in a bag and I'm waiting for my
microbiom read out. So I know what I need to
focus on in the gut.

Speaker 1 (34:05):
I mean, if it's gonna help and yield results, I say,
try every fucking thing poop in that bag. Sister.

Speaker 2 (34:12):
For my second brain, which is another name for the stomach.

Speaker 1 (34:16):
Holy fuck, where did you get that or did you
come up with it? No?

Speaker 2 (34:20):
No, no, a lot of them got health.

Speaker 1 (34:21):
People say that that the stomach is a second brain.
You know what. Yeah, because it thinks for itself.

Speaker 2 (34:27):
It talks to your brain, and it thinks for itself.

Speaker 1 (34:30):
Wow. I love that your stomach is your second brain. Honey.
Sometimes my stomach has a bad ideas. Let me tell
you something.

Speaker 2 (34:37):
Sometimes my stomach is my you know, first brain, and
sometimes my brain is my second stomach.

Speaker 1 (34:42):
No, we talked about this, because we did. We did,
remember we talked about this. I told you, Oh, maybe
I said this to Jared, but I told you, Okay,
I'm just gonna I'm gonna be really honest because I'm
in my honesty era. I'm tiktoking a lot m h.
And I'm here of saying go kamala. So I'm just

(35:03):
gonna come out here and say this. Within this year,
I have, let's put it like this, lost my shit
and it happened very close to my actual bathroom, and
it took me by surprise.

Speaker 2 (35:17):
You did tell me about this.

Speaker 1 (35:18):
I shit my pants actually because I had eaten badly
the night before and I had a cold brew, and
I was actually I knew it was going to be
an emergency. And so I was in the elevator and
I was like, oh my god, this cannot move fast enough,
and it quite in fact could not, because in my
elevator in New York. Let's just say, I ruined my

(35:39):
Brooks Marks pants And I'm sorry Brooks.

Speaker 2 (35:44):
It was. It has nothing to do with you.

Speaker 1 (35:46):
It had nothing to do with you. In fact, I
would say, I felt so comfortable in your stuff, you.

Speaker 2 (35:51):
Know what I mean.

Speaker 1 (35:52):
And I also know I'm putting this out there and
I'm sort of getting very fecal, and I'm sort of
joining my sister in fecal confessions.

Speaker 2 (35:58):
In confessions and one more, thinking that Brooks marks thing.
His initials are BM, and they're all over the pants,
And that's what you had.

Speaker 1 (36:06):
I hadn't even considered that until now.

Speaker 2 (36:09):
BM.

Speaker 1 (36:10):
And that's actually real culture number nineteen BM. Yeah. So,
but luckily he had sent three pairs, so I still
have my other two but to go. So what I'm
saying is my stomach was acting as a second brain
where it actually I'm telling you I was thinking so
hard with my brain and trying so hard with pretty

(36:31):
much every part of my body including it, my stomach
was making executive decisions.

Speaker 2 (36:38):
Executive function was in the stomach.

Speaker 1 (36:42):
And the butthole was an accomplice.

Speaker 2 (36:45):
Yeah, I mean that is like, you know, I think
like parasympathetic, like your butt, kind of like I was
at the butthole head of mine of its own. But
I think the stomach is the one pulling all the string.
Stomach is like the twist villain at the end of
a movie, like it was her all along.

Speaker 1 (37:08):
Yeah, guys, say something. I know this was not everyone's
favorite episode the Tyler Henry Hollywood Medium episode. I know
that it was not everyone's favorite episode. Not everyone liked
that health came up during that reading.

Speaker 2 (37:19):
It's iconic.

Speaker 1 (37:20):
He said to me, you need to watch your stomach
and your gut stuff. And I was like, okay, And
I do think now it's sort of an iconic moment
because let me tell you, Hm, the spirits.

Speaker 2 (37:34):
Got me on that one. Let me tell you that
DUDELRD knows what he's talking about.

Speaker 1 (37:39):
But wait, can I say this is another reason he
has the gift. This is another reason why you can't
be eating bad at night. And I ask you, do
you ever eat like really late or eat garbage at night?

Speaker 2 (37:50):
And I'm sure you okay, But this is this is
all part of my own pooping in a bag journey.
Like I'm really I really want to get into not
I'm not like Aura rain Coat and I'm not about
to get my fucking like all my biometrics so I
can optimize and shit, I just want to know. I
just want to poop in a bag and know what

(38:10):
my microbiome is. That's I really just want to know names.
I want to know like ooh, I'm going to eat
more spear leane at like whatever.

Speaker 1 (38:17):
Yeah, yeah, well first of all, like, yeah, it's going
to improve your life exponentially. One thing you can definitely do, though,
like right on the outset, one thing you can definitely
do is just not eat before you go to bed,
because I do think that that look just confronting our
mid thirties head on, there's something with that. It's like

(38:38):
my stomach when that when I was doing that, and
I've had to fight, especially as someone who loves a
reefer in the nighttime.

Speaker 2 (38:44):
It's hard.

Speaker 1 (38:45):
You cannot eat before you go to bed because your
stomach is so pissed off in the morning, and you
wake up so much earlier than you would have. Yes,
because your stomach's making decisions.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
Of course, second brain, if you are going to eat
something little baby tomato, little carrot stick, a little grape,
that'll do yet.

Speaker 1 (39:06):
Yes, you know what what You're right and literally you
know what, I've become really obsessed with cucumber, bitch.

Speaker 2 (39:15):
You've never eaten a vegetable more refreshing.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Literally, it's hydrating, it's esthetically pleasing, it's easy to prepare
and get this. You can even dress up your cucumber.
This is what you do I feel like Anthony Porowski. Yeah,
I've actually never felt more like Anthony than recently. We
love it a negative. I don't care. I'm climbing Cringe
Mountain and I'm sliding down the other end. I love him.

Speaker 2 (39:43):
Guess who climbed Cringe Mountain?

Speaker 1 (39:45):
Anthony? And guess who's got many books out and looks
like Anthony. Come on. Sometimes I see pictures of him
and I'm like, well, there he is the world's hottest man.
And it's okay. It's okay anyway. Irrespective of that, people
think that about me all the time. It's literally like
that's something the three of us all share. It's okay.

(40:06):
What I'm saying is, this is what you do. You
chop up your cucumber.

Speaker 2 (40:11):
I'm with you.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
You get a little hot sauce.

Speaker 2 (40:16):
I I think I'm with.

Speaker 1 (40:17):
You, like mild, And I'm not talking about like go crazy.
I'm talking about like some chilula. Even you put a
little bit of chilula on the thing, a little bit
of salt and pepper, a little bit of salt and pepper.
But then what you do is you just rub the
cucumbers all up around in the hot sauce. And stuff,
so it's almost like dressing. It's like almost like like

(40:38):
buffalo cucumber and then you eat the cucumber. It is
the best snack. It's actually a nominee for best Snack. Yes, bo,
how would you see it on the card? That snack
cucumbers with hot sauce, A little salt and pepper.

Speaker 2 (40:57):
Felt like that, A little salt andn pepper, like eating
buffalo cucumber.

Speaker 1 (41:02):
Yeah, I don't know if. I don't know if I
would go as far as to call it buffalo cucumber,
because I think what you immediately think of is fried cauliflower.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And I can't this is still on the card. This
is still the nominee name. No no no no no
no no.

Speaker 1 (41:17):
I personally and all of a sudden, a nominee has
like a subheader, like a below the fellowship of the ring.
This is cucumber, buffalo sauce, but the thing is a
little bit of salt and pepper. And then thought, it's
like a Fiona Apple album.

Speaker 2 (41:36):
It's album.

Speaker 1 (41:39):
Well, anyway, I swear by this snack and I learned
it from my father. I got it from my daddy.
Let me tell you something. If you climb Crans Mountain,

(41:59):
you slide down the slide. That's what I think is
on the other end of Cridge Mountain like a slide,
like a really fun slide. I'm very into slide culture
recently because I went on a vacation where they had
a water slide and you saw me at the Bahamar
the first time we went. You know, I, you know,
I'll do any water slide.

Speaker 2 (42:18):
You love a slide, love it slide case.

Speaker 1 (42:22):
I don't care what it does to my back in
regards to scratches, I really don't like. I love going
down a slide. I love what was it? There was
something I recently did where I was like, oh, it
was when we were in Sicily. I never did jump
off that big rock.

Speaker 2 (42:39):
The big rone. I don't think you needed to do that.
It's a big rock.

Speaker 1 (42:44):
But you know I was diving off the smaller rock.

Speaker 2 (42:46):
Yeah, and you were having a great time and that
I think sometimes you got to you gotta cap it
and be like that's enough for me.

Speaker 1 (42:52):
Yeah, Like there was no real reason for me to
dive off a rock that was how high would you
say that was? That was like seventy feet high, seventy
feet seven stories, Matt, Come on, you don't need to
do that.

Speaker 2 (43:03):
Yeah, you really don't.

Speaker 1 (43:05):
There's a little part of me. This is who the
little kid in me is. And this is maybe different
from the way you were, but not I don't think so.
The little kid in me was like an aspiring daredevil,
like I wanted, was obsessed with doing like bungee jumping,
and like really couldn't wait to jump out of a plane,

(43:25):
to the point where I jumped out of a plane
at eighteen. Yeah, and it's I've never been the same.
It was horrible, horrible.

Speaker 2 (43:35):
You're not human beings aren't supposed to do that.

Speaker 1 (43:38):
What's the most extreme thing you've ever done?

Speaker 2 (43:41):
I really don't think I am. I've done extreme things.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
I guess maybe you know what if I could use
conjecture on you, Yeah, have you ever done like black
diamond skiing? Sure, then maybe that maybe that what if
you can think of the sensation of that? Are you comfort? No? See?

Speaker 2 (44:02):
I hate it?

Speaker 1 (44:03):
So it certainly can't get shouldn't get darker and worse?
You mean like double black diamond, Like what I'm saying
is like darker in terms of like why we're doing this,
like like throwing yourself out of a plane is dark.
It's so dark, that's what you're saying. Yeah, it's like
it's like bungee jumping. It's a little dark. It's like,

(44:23):
why are we doing anything where you're not gonna die?
But like more likely you could.

Speaker 2 (44:32):
Die, much more likely now that you could die, and
for however long you're doing this activity.

Speaker 1 (44:38):
I think anytime you yourself become a flying projectile at high speed,
you've placed yourself in a more digs for death. Correct,
were now at the level of high risk.

Speaker 2 (44:53):
And the high risk is relative of course, but like
you just have to think about relative to what because
relative to you being on the ground, so much higher
capacity and possibility for death. If you're up in the
sky and about to judge otup a plane, I think
about what it felt like to careem through the sky.
I sometimes you remember walk us through, Honey, I remember

(45:15):
the whole You know, there's video of it. I have
to find the DVD and put it online.

Speaker 1 (45:20):
It is first of all, it's me at eighteen, fresh
from graduating, so closeted, like he's in the voice doing
the giving shows, giving shows like they strapped me because
you have to do tandem I'm sure I've told this before,

(45:42):
but like they strap a man on you, so you
go tandem. This guy had this highest spikiest like hair.
I joked that I don't remember his name, but the
only name I can give him in retrospect is Trask.
He seemed like a Trask to me.

Speaker 2 (46:00):
First of all, you have a thing with the name Trask.
You love Trass hasn't come through before. I'm flashing back
to all these moments before. We're like in like a sketcher,
like in an improv show or something. You'll be like,
I'm Trask, and I'm like, Okay, this guy loves the
oc or he loves East of Eden. Something he loves

(46:20):
Oliver Trask.

Speaker 1 (46:22):
You know, whenever I'm Trask, and know that if Bowen
and I ever write or create anything, wink wink, and
there's someone named Trask, that character, there's something about that character.
If we ever have a character Trask and you ever
in media, if Trask ever appears, know that that's for
a reason, because this guy was such a Trask. We

(46:46):
the way that you skydive and I went with my
like all my male friends and my one girlfriend, Laurenne,
and you have to sit thirty thousand, No, thirteen, what
is it thirteen thousand feet in there? When you skide,
I have thirty thousand. When you like shave, you have
to sit on like like they open the door and

(47:08):
you sit with your legs dangling nothing beneath you, and
then you go, you literally go, you rock one, rock two,
and then you are supposed to front flip out of
a plane. And then after the one flip, you sort

(47:29):
of like toss your arms and legs back and sort
of get into like almost like you're a super Bowl
belly down. That's like the position you're supposed to be
in with someone on your back. That sensation you sort
of adjust to six or seven seconds in because it
starts to feel like when you put your hand out

(47:51):
of a car window on the highway, just that air
you start to just feel. Once you adjust to the
zero gravity, you start to just feel that all over
your body. Then it gets a little fun. Then, by
the way, this is all on tape. Then they pull
the parachute. And what they don't tell you is when

(48:12):
they pull the parachute going.

Speaker 2 (48:14):
It fucking pulls you.

Speaker 1 (48:17):
Yes, but that's not even the worst part. Yes, there
is a jostling and you get pulled and you like land.

Speaker 2 (48:24):
There is a.

Speaker 1 (48:27):
Ten to twelve second feeling of euphoria that you did it. Now,
then you realize the worst is yet to come, hun
because you're still three thousand feet off the fucking ground
and there is nothing Benya few, but there is a
man on your back and he's Trask, babe, and Trask

(48:49):
doesn't play by the rules. Something to know about Trask.
Trask has the ability to sort of like make you
go left and right and even in some cases do
like flip as you go down. They'll ask you if
you want that. It's just whether or not you're an
eighteen year old closeted person whose number one goal in
life is to make straight men feel like you're okay,

(49:11):
you know what I mean. If you're not that person,
you might say something like no, no, no, oh my gosh,
I've had enough. Let's just float down on not really
feeling great. Or you could be that person and you
say for sure and you were when what person were you?

Speaker 2 (49:28):
You were? You were that good? You were for sure?

Speaker 1 (49:30):
Me? I was me? That was me? Then this was
me because I floated down for nine minutes, dry heaving,
vomiting in my shirt with this man on my back,
spitting into my t shirt, coughing, spurting, spitting, gagging for

(49:55):
nine minutes until we landed. And then when I land,
I have to find this video. When I land, the
camera picks me up again and I'm cross eyed. I
pull myself off off the ground and then are you
gonna do it again? And I just give a thumbs
up like this, get the screenshot. Ough, I just give
a thumbs up like yep, I'll be back, and then
they freeze frame on my face. By the way, the

(50:16):
song that's playing is like We're going to the place
where we belong Hell. Like that's like the song that's
like being sung. I just made that up, but that
was the genre. And like, I've never felt worse or
more terrified in my life than in that moment. It's
all on tape. And that is when I developed fear.

(50:38):
That moment is when I developed physical, atmospheric fear. I
always had emotional fear again closet at eighteen, but this
was different. I no longer identified as someone who wanted
to push any limits.

Speaker 2 (50:51):
That is to me and please tell me if I'm
out of line. So fortunate that you have have this
on tape, because guess what that moment is.

Speaker 1 (51:06):
Tell me what it is, and tell everyone too.

Speaker 2 (51:08):
Well, there's climbing cringe mountain, and then there's jumping out
of cringe airlines. Yep, and you jumped out of cringe
airlines at the literal peak of your cringe, which was
I need to make sure these straight boys still like
me and think I'm funny and want to hang out
with me. Yes, And I hope trask Like doesn't mind

(51:31):
that I like the way his crotch feels on my butt.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
I have to tell you, I couldn't have been less horny.
I was getting spurting, vomiting and spitting in the air.
I wasn't even thinking about Dixon my butt and later
I would all the time.

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Of course, much not soon after that moment. I'm sure
I you literally were throwing up on yourself, your own
fucking discharge covering you. Oh yeah, being humiliated by these
men who ask you after this life threatening violatory experience

(52:08):
you've had go want to do that again, and you
have no choice but to throw your thumbs up because
your psyche has been so for an entire life bludgeoned
by patriarchy. That is all on tape, so you can
watch it, you can document, but like you can you

(52:30):
literally have something outside of your own memory of it
that exists where you can point to that and be like,
this is the day that I climbed Cringe Mountain, that
I jumped out of Cringe airlines. Yeah, you are a
better person for it.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Oh, I one, because I'm alive. Who knows at that
rate had I enjoyed that? Get this? This is the
part where the story gets really fucking crazy. So one
of my friends, Kevin, loved the experience. And the guys
were telling us about their job, the people that would

(53:04):
jump tandem. We were like, how many times do you
guys do this a day? Tras goes nineteen times a
day is usually how many times I do that? I go,
holy fucking shit, And I guess it computed to us
as these guys do this every day. Let's say they
work four or five times a week, nineteen times a

(53:24):
day they jump out of a plane. I don't know,
let's say one hundred times a week, and they've all
done this for a while. It just doesn't happen that
there's accidents, right, you know what I mean, Like, clearly,
this is just like any other recreational activity. It's like
go into a theme park and strapping into a roller coast.
You're actually safer there than you are on the open road.
Got it. It's a monitored thing. Never mind the paperwork

(53:47):
they make you signed before you can even do it.
That's like if you die, you can't see. Never mind
that it doesn't happen. Kevin went again, I babe. When
they landed, which they did, thank god. The guy goes
to him, dude, we had to go to the backup shoot.
He goes, what he goes? We had to go to

(54:10):
the backup shoot. I pulled the first shoot. The thing
didn't come out. It has never happened to me before.
I'm not gonna lie. There was about a ten second
period where I was really scared, on your back, really scared,
and then I just got my wits about me and
pulled the backup shoot, and thank god I remembered where
it was, et cetera. Like that. I just but the

(54:32):
point being they had to go to the backup shoot.
What what? And he never went again.

Speaker 2 (54:44):
This is the perfect thing to unpack. Yeah for you,
for the state of the world.

Speaker 1 (54:52):
You don't have to jump out the mountain like it
just because you think it's going to be exciting. It's okay.
Let someone else jump about the plane, about the plane,
you mean, jump about that, jump about the planet. You'll
know what we're saying.

Speaker 2 (55:04):
I mean, if you don't have to climb Cringe Mountain,
if you don't have a Cringe mountain in your horizon,
bless you. I hope I pray that you never have
to climb Cringe Mountain.

Speaker 1 (55:15):
No, I think everyone should climb Cringe Mountain. Everyone should
climb Cringe Mountain.

Speaker 2 (55:19):
Well, yes, this is like my theory on like queerness,
like not everyone has to be queer, and not everyone
will be queer, but they should be. I think that
would be nice, you know, Like that's how I feel. Yeah,
but it's not like it's obviously not prescriptive and there's
no agenda there.

Speaker 1 (55:33):
It's but then what would set us apart.

Speaker 2 (55:37):
If everyone's queer? No one is? Well anyway, I hope
you don't have to climb Cringe Mountain, is what I'm saying.
But everyone should because more likely than not, you will.
You will come across it in your travels and the
travails of your life. Cringe mountain will be right before you.
You will be at the base of it, and you
have no choice but to climb.

Speaker 1 (55:57):
Or stan or stan And I guess, oh, this is
the last thing I want to say about it. You
know who absolutely was there. The only parents to come
watch it was Richard and Katrina Rogers, Ritchie and Trina
showed up and they were like, no, we're gonna watch it.
I think my mom had in her head that like
and I used to have this when I was a
kid too. Sometimes, like I as a little kid would

(56:21):
every time my mom left to go to the store,
would I would be like, I'm coming, and she was like,
you don't have to come, and I was like, no,
I'm coming. And I think in my head I was like,
if I'm in the car, there can't be an accident.
Oh yeah, oh yeah, of course invincible kid syndrome. And
you think like, I'm gonna protect my mother by going
in the car with her, Like, I know if I'm
there will be okay, because nothing can back it up

(56:43):
into me, right. I think that my mom thought like, well,
I'm gonna go watch it so I can actually see it,
and it won't be such a big deal. Can you
imagine if your parents are there when you throw yourself
out of a plane and hit the ground.

Speaker 2 (57:00):
I mean, I was going to say that they're very
good parents for coming and showing up and watching.

Speaker 1 (57:04):
No, they are, but that's even more sad.

Speaker 2 (57:07):
No, No, that's just love. Is not sad. They love you.
They love you.

Speaker 1 (57:11):
Have you ever seen in the movie Simon Birch. No,
it's about a boy who's different mmmm, and he plays
baseball and he gets on the team. He finally gets
on the team. It's like they accept him and his
best friend's mother is played by Ashley Judd. And at

(57:32):
the end of the movie, like Simon Birch finally gets
to like hit the ball. He gets to go bat.
Simon Birch connects with the ball, hits the ball. It's
a beautiful moment.

Speaker 2 (57:44):
WHOA.

Speaker 1 (57:44):
The ball goes into this guy in the parking lot.
Ashley Judd is getting out of her car. The ball
kills her. H's Ashley Judd in the temple of her head.
It but when they run over to Ashley Judd. Everyone
runs over to Ashley Judd. The coach like takes her pulse.

(58:06):
She's dead. Simon Birch looks at his best friend, whose
mother is dead and played by Ashley Judd, and he
says I'm sorry and runs away forever. That's what you
get for being a good parent, showing up to the games.

(58:26):
You get a foul ball in the temple. You die
for no reason.

Speaker 2 (58:32):
Simon Birch was released on September eleventh, nineteen nineteen.

Speaker 1 (58:41):
Wait a minute, that is such a tragic day. Can
I say you? It's only closer number fifty September eleventh.
That is such a tragedy.

Speaker 2 (58:50):
Tragic day.

Speaker 1 (58:52):
I did not know that Ashley Judd's character dies. Can
you read this? Just vindicate me? Here the synopsis go
to the end. Okay, just by the way, Sorry everyone.
Spoiler for Simon Birch, a film released on September nineteen
ninety eight. Really the height of Ashley Judd.

Speaker 2 (59:11):
During baseball, Simon hits the perfect pitch. It becomes a
foul ball that hits Rebecca in the.

Speaker 1 (59:17):
Head, killing her. Simon gives Joe his price to baseball
cards as an apology, which Joe gives Simon the stuffed
armadillo as forgiveness. I mean, he's not forgiven, for he
hit a murdered.

Speaker 2 (59:35):
No, he didn't murder this.

Speaker 1 (59:36):
You can't even go to this is an accident.

Speaker 2 (59:39):
She murdered her bad.

Speaker 1 (59:43):
And it was cold blooded murder. Keep reading because it
gets worse. Joe can't, Joe couldn't forgive Simon. Keep going, Jo.

Speaker 2 (59:55):
Joe's grandmother informs Joe that her own death is eminent
due to her age, and there must be a plan
for him once her time comes. As Rebecca never told
anyone who Joe's father was, even in confidence. Simon believes
that Joe's father may have taken the baseball that killed

(01:00:16):
Seeming their gym teacher a fitting candidate, they break into
his office to see if he has it, but it
isn't there. Overwhelmed with despair, Joe vandalizes the office. The
police chief agrees to release them if they go to
the children's retreat over winter break. There's a lot of
plot happening in this.

Speaker 1 (01:00:33):
I thought that was the end of the movie. I
guess not.

Speaker 2 (01:00:36):
No, there's two more paragraphs. Babe, Wow, this is well.
Just look at how it ends ends.

Speaker 1 (01:00:44):
Please.

Speaker 2 (01:00:45):
While Simon and Joe are riding the bus, helmet crashes
into the lake with the driver abandoning the bus and
Russell unconscious. Simon takes command and gets everyone out with
Joe's help Wow, but nearly drowns while saving last child.
Joe visits a dying Simon in the hospital, remarking how

(01:01:05):
his small size worked to his advantage in evacuating the kids.
They bit each other farewell before Simon dies. Joe's grandmother
passes away that summer, and he's adopted by Ben just
before his thirteenth birthday. Back in the present day, with
adult Joe at Simon's grave, Joe's son, named after Simon,
reminds him that he has a soccer game, and they

(01:01:26):
drive away. As the film ends, don't.

Speaker 1 (01:01:30):
Go to the game an errand ball might kill you
if you're a mother.

Speaker 2 (01:01:35):
And then don't go to the children's cheat because the
bus home might crash into a lake.

Speaker 1 (01:01:39):
Have you ever heard something crazier in your life than
the plot of that film? Uh?

Speaker 2 (01:01:46):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (01:01:46):
The twenty twenty four election period, bitch, you age? What
what's ninety nine minus ninety one?

Speaker 2 (01:01:55):
Hold on eight?

Speaker 1 (01:02:00):
Thank you? It's time for I don't think so, honey.
This has been you know, this has been one of
those episodes that did it all i'd say.

Speaker 2 (01:02:19):
I absolutely agree with you, and right before we go
into I don't think so, honey, I do have to.
And I know we quote this like once every couple
of years, but someone did just randomly post for no reason. Really,
I'm just posted the scene of Valerie Cherish walking into
the HBO offices in season two of The Comeback, and
it is I think the funniest scene, one of the

(01:02:40):
funniest TV scenes in history.

Speaker 1 (01:02:44):
Started it all, Sopranos started it all.

Speaker 2 (01:02:49):
Sex and the City started it all. I guess I'm
one of the girls now. Then she laughs, and then
she goes over to the Sopranos. Sopranos started it all
at all different way way.

Speaker 3 (01:03:02):
Oh, and she turns. Then she turns to like like
true blood or something. She goes, I don't know that one,
or that's what she was like, No, don't know that one.

Speaker 2 (01:03:16):
I don't know of course.

Speaker 3 (01:03:19):
Nila Durham, at first she goes, oh this, Oh, here
we go, and she sees the poster, turns to the
camera and goes, new Girls.

Speaker 1 (01:03:31):
Girl. Maybe the funniest part of the whole scene, which
I totally forgot about.

Speaker 2 (01:03:36):
I love her New Girls.

Speaker 1 (01:03:37):
Leela Durham I think it's Lena. That's what I said, Lena,
no see and she looks at the poster. It's the
perfect scene in terms of like character ship too. It's like,
you know everything about Valerie Cherish in this in this
one scene and she only says like twelve words total.

(01:04:00):
I mean, first of all, Valerie Cherish is one of
the greatest characters in television history. It needn't even be
said period. There is really no world. And oh my god,
I just thought to myself, there's no world. Why she
doesn't have an Emmy for that. Congratulations of my sister
on your Emmy nomination, the third one in this category,

(01:04:21):
fourth overall.

Speaker 2 (01:04:24):
Thank you, sister, very honored.

Speaker 1 (01:04:27):
Only six nominees and like fucking Boon and Yang.

Speaker 2 (01:04:31):
I really didn't think it was I really didn't think
it was gonna happen because I, like, I checked, you
deserved it. Here's what happened. I checked one prognosticator and
like whatever I had, Like I have my Google alert
for myself, just you know, just so I'm on top
of it. And like in the little clipping of the
article that'll always say like you're like whatever your name,

(01:04:51):
whatever the Google term is, and then like this this
is the word surrounding it, and like I was like, oh,
like based off of one little like gleaning of it.
I was just like, I don't think it's happening this year.
No problem, it's a weird it's a weird year.

Speaker 1 (01:05:06):
I did see you were on the bubble. I of course, look,
I just I was on the bubble Emmy Race and
you were on the bubble. But I was like, oh,
I really just hope that like people actually remember how
good your work was because you deserved it. And I'm
so happy, thanks queen. I feel like I had my
best season. I think you did.

Speaker 2 (01:05:24):
I was really proud of this last season. So I'm
really honored. And it's this thing where let's get real,
let's get honesty zone. Like I brought this up in
therapy because like I had this whole thing leading up
to like the nomin I knew, I knew a day
they weren't gonna announce, and I was like, cool, got it.
But I'm not gonna like emotionally build up anything towards

(01:05:45):
that because I'm just like I know what this is
like and like, yeah, it doesn't happen.

Speaker 1 (01:05:50):
It's like to get it and not get.

Speaker 2 (01:05:51):
It exactly, and getting it is the whole thing too
of like, well, like am I putting too much meaning
in that? So basically I went into therapy the next
day being like, I like, have this thing I want
to talk about here where I'm like, I had this
flash of a thought in my head that it was
like should I feel bad for feeling good? And then
my therapist was like like raised his eyebrow. He was like, well,

(01:06:12):
there you get like I think you just answered your
own question. I was like, oh yeah, Like why would
I get in the way of that. I just mean,
like in terms of like reading up about award shows
right now, which is a fun thing I'm doing for
reasons that don't really have to do with culture wards.
It's just I was given reading material Michael Schulman's Oscar
Wars fabulous, so good, so readable, very thick and encyclopedic,

(01:06:34):
but like the way he writes is so narrative and fun.

Speaker 1 (01:06:37):
I'm going to pick that up right away. I'm in
the market for a new reason.

Speaker 2 (01:06:40):
It's wonderful, Matt. You're gonna fucking love it, Like you know,
the reason the Academy was starting the first place was
to like prey on like an industry of fragile egos
and reward them with something annually so that they can
like be motivated to like produce work at a level
that like was not very reasonable at the time. And

(01:07:00):
it was like both an anti censorship body great, but
also an anti union body bad. So it's like it's
so complicated. But like the reason Louis B. Mayor and
all these people started the studio had started the oscars
was because it was like a way to like literally
create this validation system that is meant to make people
feel good or bad and so.

Speaker 1 (01:07:19):
And in that way you also create an industry.

Speaker 2 (01:07:22):
Totally, and that's what's happened, and that's what has happened
in other industries outside of film, and wow, crazy like
so fascinating. And then that ties into all this like
therapy stuff that I'm talking about where I'm like I
was really like meditating on it and like really like
working outside of any model like feeling validated by it
because I was like I think, like I'm really proud

(01:07:43):
of my work. That's all that matters. No one else
can define that for me. I am so not even
like above it because I'm certainly not but I was
just like I was so removed from it that I
was like, I can put it over there and if
it and if the nice thing happens, great, If it doesn't,
no problem, Like I'm totally your perspective.

Speaker 1 (01:08:00):
It was developed and.

Speaker 2 (01:08:01):
Good exactly, especially after for the thirty year in a
row producing and hosting an award show, a fake awards
show that has this thin gauzy layer between taking itself
just seriously enough and not seriously at all, and also.

Speaker 1 (01:08:16):
Exists to satirize that concept.

Speaker 2 (01:08:18):
Yes, well yeah, and then and then like thinking about
like the Emmys or the real thing it's like, or
any real awards system, it's like that that that thin
layer is just moved to a different place. It's just
a different balance of seriously and not seriously. So I
say all this, and my therapist just goes, well, Bowen,

(01:08:39):
it's entertainment, like you like you doing your award show
is entertainment. It's kind of the same idea like everywhere
like it is it is to entertain people. It's a show.
And I'm like totally and that and that like was
kind of liberating where I was like, oh, I'm part

(01:09:00):
of a show.

Speaker 1 (01:09:02):
You're part of a show, and also just to actually,
you know, for a second, I'm part of that. It
deserves you're shot of the show, I mean, And yes,
that's what we're talking about, the same thing. You're part
of the show because the industry that you're in and
your peers respect you so much and think, if we're

(01:09:23):
going to represent who we are, he should be there.
And I it's interesting to hear you talk about it
because I feel similarly. In fact, I did just say
the other day what's crazy about the business is especially
for a comedians coming in, you know, I would be
really interested to talk to some of our comedian friends
who ended up being in that arena. It's so wild

(01:09:46):
because when you're coming up, the thing that makes you successful,
I think, and the thing that's the north star and
the thing that you all share is you don't take
yourself that seriously and then you're able to really show
who your authentic self is and you're able to really
tap into what makes you special because you know what,
you actually climb the cringe mountain in that moment and
got rid of your checkpoints in order to let yourself

(01:10:08):
be who you are and then yes, maybe be viable
in the business that you work in, and then when
you are, you look around and people take themselves.

Speaker 2 (01:10:19):
So so.

Speaker 1 (01:10:22):
Seriously to the point where you're like, wait, there wasn't
just one way into this, and a lot of people
have been validated in a different way, and so they're
gonna approach this in a different way. So when I
hear real stories about people campaigning for awards who drive
themselves nuts and make themselves so unhappy, I just think,

(01:10:46):
what a shame that they don't have perspective on this thing.
But also at the same token, you want it. I mean,
Amy Poehler has an amazing take on this in her book.
Ye It's like she talks about like you know, she
Amy Poehler really doesn't win a lot of awards. She's
nominated a lot, but I feel like the Emmys have

(01:11:07):
not come as freely to her as they have come
to like a lot of her peers. For example, I
saw this stat the other day that Maya like wins
Emmys like he left and right, and now she's nominated
again a bunch, And we all know Tina has a
ton of Emmies. Amy won like a golden globe. And
then outside of that, there hasn't been much, and she

(01:11:28):
was talking about it like it's like you're almost resentful
of it, like it's exciting because it's basically like telling
a kid like there might there's gonna be cookies and
some of you are gonna get to eat the cookies,
but only if you're good, and it's like wow, beforehand,
I didn't even.

Speaker 2 (01:11:44):
I didn't want the cookie. I didn't I didn't want
the cookie.

Speaker 1 (01:11:47):
I didn't care. I was like just playing in the
yard with my friends. Now there's cookies inside and only
a couple of us are going to get it, and
it's merit based kind of yeah, you know what I mean.
It's weird. It's a weird thing. And then the original
taking that seriously is like is like unfortunate. But also

(01:12:08):
you want the fucking cookie because the cookie is gonna
taste good and this cookie, if you eat it, you
like get hotter. It's like there's some incentive because of
the way the industry is gonna feel about you once
you've in particular cookie. It's loaded. It's weird.

Speaker 2 (01:12:24):
Yeah, it's loaded. It's weird. And like there's even a
lot of healthy conversation now about like I'll just say,
for the way that like SNL fits in a category
like the comedies, where right, it's one thing that SNL
like is not evaluated, should not be evaluated frankly on
the same level as like these like narrative script in

(01:12:47):
narrative comedies. And yeah, and again that's not to.

Speaker 1 (01:12:52):
Say that's not to say that you're not grateful for sure,
and that you don't deserve it. It's just the way
they characterize it and categorize it rather is bizarre characterizing category.

Speaker 2 (01:13:00):
Yes yes, yes yes. And it's also this other thing
of like there's this whole existential thing that's happening with
like the comedy categories and the like as well. It's
like there's two different things and so like it's a
really like it's really refracted for me, and I'm kind
of like, okay, I'm just like happy to be yeah
along for the ride, even because none of this makes

(01:13:22):
any sense. Yeah, like everyone in my cast should also
be nominated. Frankly, Like I do have this weirdness around
like knowing for a fact that like I represent one
very specific way that SNL is represented and it only
works if it has this multitude of all those ways.

(01:13:44):
And like everyone who works there and I mean this,
and I've always thought this. I mean this from the
bottom of my heart. I feel like everyone who works
at SNL is really really just trying to like put
on a good show at the end of the day,
and that's it.

Speaker 1 (01:14:00):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (01:14:00):
Sorry, I'm getting so stone and I'm like, I'm like, no,
I think, but I think.

Speaker 1 (01:14:04):
I think it's very like real and I hadn't thought
about it like that, you know what I mean. It's like,
there are so many pieces that come together to deliver that,
especially at that show, and there really should be. I
think if you're gonna have a variety sketch category and
a variety writing category, it only makes sense to have
a variety performance category, like because to compare your performance

(01:14:29):
and like Eben moss Backrax performance is odd. You wouldn't
do that unless it was a show that you were
making up to give out trophies, you know what I mean.
And so if we're gonna do that, then like at
least put like a category there that could actually honor
more talent. Yeah, because so many, so many people on

(01:14:50):
that show deserve that honor. But the characterization of what
constitutes a supporting performance in that comedy is just like
not neces necessarily one to one inclusive of whatever one does.

Speaker 2 (01:15:02):
And also variety performance does not. I don't think it
necessitates any sort of like lead supporting, like oh thing
at all. It can just be its own categories. If
you if we don't move out of this gender binary categorization,
then like it should just be two categories, you know
what I mean. It's like, then just do the male
and female like whatever that is, so it's just two more.

(01:15:25):
I don't know anyway that this is like these are
like late thoughts that Matt and I have.

Speaker 1 (01:15:30):
There should be an individual performance category for not only
just for SNL, for like late night hosts, for Cynthia
Arrival performing on the Kennedy Center Honors, yea for Cynthia
Orrivo is singing Alfie, she should be nominated for an Emmy,
Like it's silly that it's television. Yeah, And they used
to have this category and they used to give these
out and so why wouldn't you, Why wouldn't you mm hmm.

(01:15:54):
But anyway, and I do think that you would have
an Emmy by now if there was that category, but
regards and I think you obviously would have won this
year because you're the only one nominated, So just saying like,
there's a way to better quantify these things that then
you could have more talent represented across the board, and
then the show gets more fun. I think exactly exactly. Anyway,

(01:16:16):
this is now we're doing. I don't think so honey. No,
not things honey, And I've decided I don't want to
do the one I was gonna do. I was gonna say,
I don't think so honey, Joe Mansion, do not fucking run,
you clown. That's all I want to say. And I'm
just gonna do a more fun I don't think so honey, because.

Speaker 2 (01:16:30):
OK, this is Matt Rogers. I don't think so honey.
As time starts now, I.

Speaker 1 (01:16:35):
Don't think so honey myself on last week's episode because
I did not talk enough about how much fun we
had on our vacation. We had so much fun in
our vacation, and I feel like I talked mostly about
the bags because they were missing at that moment and
it was frustrating.

Speaker 2 (01:16:49):
And it was moments before we were on the mic
you got that call, oh that.

Speaker 1 (01:16:52):
And it was moments before I would like to retract
my energy and like to contribute this energy. We stayed
at the most beautiful resort in Sicily, and we both
worked hard to be able to be there, and I'm
happy that we were able to get out of our
own way and really enjoy that and look at the
fuck where we were. The last night, I looked out
at the water at the sea, and I was just like,

(01:17:12):
my god, this is stunning. And I inspired myself. I
was like, I want to go more places. I want
to put myself out there more in terms of travel.
It was a shift that really moved me forward in
that regard. I loved swimming in that sea. I just
loved it. I loved all the food, I loved the people,
and I just had the best time and seconds and like, yes,
Amstdam was incredible, I've been there before. Taylor was amazing.

(01:17:33):
But I just wanted to like shine a light on
the trip and how much fun I had with my
friends and I love everyone that I was with and
I just don't think so, honey, to any thought, that's.

Speaker 2 (01:17:43):
Not that, that's one minute. Well, I am so happy
to hear that. And for me, like you and travel, Yeah,
it didn't occur to me before, Like I always feel
like you are such a you have such a worldly mind,
and yet you I feel like you are entering this
era now where you're like you want to see the world.
Do you want to like participate in that activity of

(01:18:05):
like traveling?

Speaker 1 (01:18:07):
You know, you guys, there was a minute where it
looked like maybe we were going to get to go
to Paris for the Olympics, and then that didn't work out,
But I was excited about it. I just I want
to go to lots of places. I think, you know
what happened, Like last year, I went to Sydney and
I loved it so much, and I was like, I
had been to London a few times that year. I
was like, I need to travel internationally more because I've

(01:18:29):
just seen what happens when it feels like that moment
passes people by, Like I'm from a very blue collar
Long Island family where we only ever really vacationed in Florida.
I mean, I was going to California was huge when
I was twenty two, Like, oh, you only ever went
to Florida. And I just feel like, you know, that's
not a given with people.

Speaker 2 (01:18:48):
I think that's a.

Speaker 1 (01:18:49):
Thing is It's like, you know, I used to feel
like I was climbing Cringe Mountain, you know, saying like
making the jewel, like hah, I've only ever been to Epcot.
I could only go to Epcot like my parents Thatcot,
you know what I mean. So now it's like I
don't know, like I'm connecting with therapid bitch and me
and wanted to do more things. And it's it was

(01:19:10):
just when I heard myself back on the episode, when
I listened to it for edits, I felt I was
like sick to my stomach the whole time. I was like, God,
I hate myself. You would because that was not my experience.

Speaker 2 (01:19:21):
I loved it, but that was you being so fresh
from like bad news, from like sitting in this like
horrible feeling, which was not having your possessions, and like
it's not that you're like a materialistic person, it's just
that like our belongings like have this emotional hold on us.

Speaker 1 (01:19:41):
Yeah, and there were other personal things going on that
hadn't been sorted and everything's amazing now, but like you know,
it's just that was not a good day. And I
didn't want that to be the final word on that
trip because I had an unbelievable time.

Speaker 2 (01:19:52):
Yes, do you have.

Speaker 1 (01:19:53):
I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 2 (01:19:55):
I do. I do.

Speaker 1 (01:19:58):
I love I love this energy before are you start one?
I know it makes me very like achieves me. It
makes my nipples hard. This is Bowen Yang's I don't
think so, honey. His legendary time starts now. I don't
think so, honey.

Speaker 2 (01:20:12):
What's this gay guy thing where like, you know for
a fact you've talked to this person on the internet
in some capacity, whether it's a dating app or it's
an Instagram DM or something. It's like and you see
them mountain the wild and all they can do is
just like furtively glance at you and like, what like
this is an endemic thing with all gay men. It's like,

(01:20:33):
can we just like can we just like not make
it weird? If you know someone, you know someone and
go up to them and like say hello, seconds like
we're there's just this like I don't know, maybe we're
just shy and we're we're we're like prone to hedging
when it comes to these social situations. But it's like,
I think we can just fifteen not do the thing

(01:20:55):
if pretending like you know, you've never engaged on the
internet before. This thing happens. I mean, this maybe is
particularly New York City, but this just happened to me
last night at Public Records, Carrie Nation was playing. They
were wonderful, but I was just like there was just
that moment happening with a bunch of times I'm like, oh, no,
we know each other and you can just say.

Speaker 1 (01:21:12):
Hello, Yeah that's a minute.

Speaker 2 (01:21:15):
But wait, like how bizarre? How bizarre? Like you and
I have interacted, and like we both know that we've interacted,
and so where's this coming from?

Speaker 1 (01:21:24):
I don't know. Yeah. And also a little bit of
the messaging there is I was talking to you online
and now I saw you in person and you're not
all that, so I don't want to talk to you, right,
That's a little bit of the messaging, and I think
a little.

Speaker 2 (01:21:36):
That's how I feel, you know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Is that?

Speaker 2 (01:21:38):
Is that?

Speaker 1 (01:21:38):
Maybe what it is?

Speaker 2 (01:21:40):
Yeah? Maybe?

Speaker 1 (01:21:41):
Oh yeah. It's totally a thing on like my own
self worth, where I'm like, well, I guess I'm not
interesting enough to be talked to, you know, Like it's
it's yeah, like like that, it's that. It's just like
it's the way it makes you feel about yourself, and
that's extra self conscious and it was already hard to
fucking come here, I know, anyway, blast but yeah no,

(01:22:02):
And because ultimately you do climb Cringe Mountain, it's start
to slow roll down the hill. But that's literally a
climbing Cringe Mountain moment where you're like, oh God, and
this now we're slow rolling down the hill because we've
crested it. I just saw Inside Out too, and I
thought it was so good and Maya Hawk's characterization of
anxiety was amazing. I loved that fucking movie and I

(01:22:22):
was dragging my feet to see it and then I
saw it and it was pure delight.

Speaker 2 (01:22:28):
Love that.

Speaker 1 (01:22:30):
Ugh.

Speaker 2 (01:22:31):
Well, that's all reparenting. And this has been an episode
of Lost Culturistas that has been all about this reparenting society,
reparenting ourselves.

Speaker 1 (01:22:44):
It's all about that, and the way you do that
is through community. And speaking of community, And when'sday U,
MEI and study, you are going to have dinner, and
I know we're gonna have dinner, But do you want
to see Twisters?

Speaker 2 (01:22:53):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (01:22:54):
We should do that. Yeah, we should see Twisters, guys.
And next week Twisters it's gonna be covered and maybe
it'll even be a summer of cunt, although I will
say it's gonna be hard with the schedules because maybe
we can figure it out. Maybe maybe, but it might
be an autumn of cunt.

Speaker 2 (01:23:15):
Just trust and believe that it's coming, because it has
never been more cunt than this summer.

Speaker 1 (01:23:22):
Yeah, well, it's actually a very it's in terms of
Matt and Bow and Sudi, it's been a very cunty. Yeah,
couple weeks especially, and it's feeling good. The thing about
Sudie Green is she's currently writing for the show Loot
and is going to be on set working on Loot,
and also maya may be busy with a character that
Sudi had helped her with in the past, so it

(01:23:45):
might be a very suity twenty twenty four. It's gonna
be a Sudi Q three Q four. It's a Sudi phenomenon.
A what aenomenon.

Speaker 2 (01:23:58):
We love you so much to be in every episode
with the song.

Speaker 1 (01:24:02):
He like you better vote for Kama La.

Speaker 2 (01:24:09):
It's a Kamala enomenon.

Speaker 1 (01:24:14):
Anyways, Anyways, your feelings don't matter.

Speaker 2 (01:24:17):
Bye bye. Last Cultureasis is the production by Will Ferrell's
Big Money Players and I Heart Radio.

Speaker 1 (01:24:25):
Podcasts, created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Executive produced by Anna Hasnier and Hans Soni.

Speaker 2 (01:24:31):
Produced by Becka Ramos, edited mixed by Doug Baby, Manila
Board and our music

Speaker 1 (01:24:35):
Is by Henry Komirski

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Bowen Yang

Matt Rogers

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}“Climbing Cringe Mountain” (w/ Matt & Bowen)