"Marimba Spirit" (w/ Zane Phillips)

Piccolo-voiced culturista Matt Rogers is joined by his close friend, bassoon-throated actor Zane Phillips, on this episode of Las Culturistas to discuss being a lil academic smart girl, science fairs, hot coffee-and-crossword culture, and serving STEM at a young age. Also, coming up in the queer "scat pack" (lol noooo), playing against type when you are A Type, and why superhero movies are so washed out as of late. All this, America's Next Top Model and the act of transformation, Television Without Pity and recap culture, how Survivor has changed, how The Traitors should change, a rundown of playable Super Smash Bros. characters, a searing takedown of Mario Kart's Rainbow Road, and an honest discourse on the state of soup. Readers? We want to be culminated in you. And you will want to be culminated in THIS... episode! Of Las Cultch!

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, everybody, It's Matt and I just wanted to jump
up top here and deliver some news. The first listen
to this. Bowen Yang returns to the podcast next week,
my sister Returneth. We open our arms in gratitude and
welcome my sister. She's here again. Lost culture? Is this yeah?

(00:22):
Feels right? Also this episode Marimbas Spirit with Zay and Phillips.
Let's talk about her for a sec. This was recorded
prior to the Screen Actors Guild declaring that we're going
on strike, and it was promotional at the time. What
I've done is I've gone and I've removed all promotional
aspects of this episode. Any projects that Zane and I

(00:42):
have been in together, anything that he was promoting at
the time of the strike is out of here. So
why you may ask, Well, that is because as part
of the strike, we will not be promoting anything that
we're doing going forward if that project is related to,
or connected to, or promoting or helping a struck company.

(01:05):
It's an important distinction. Until a fair deal is given
to us, and anyone that is on this podcast will
not be promoting anything, and that will continue for as
long as it needs to. Quite frankly. Of course the
podcast will continue, but the structure of it and the
way that our guests and Bowen and I will be

(01:25):
talking about culture will just be a little bit different
in ways that we'll get into when Bowen gets back
next week. But I didn't want to hold this episode
back entirely because it's such a lovely discussion and Zaying
is such a special person to me, So I'm giving
it to you, and then later on the great news
is we have a bonus episode with the Man, So
I want you to sit back. I want you to
enjoy this one and know that Bowen is back in

(01:49):
all his glory. Next a week come, I'm a Rimba
spirit with Zaan and Phillips starts. Now. Look Mare, Oh
I see you, Oh my Bowen. Look over there? How
is that culture?

Speaker 2 (02:03):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (02:03):
Goodness? Wow? Lost cult ding dong lost culturistas calling or
la culturista as we're doing lately, one voice shining in
the darkness. And I know what you're thinking as you're
listening to this. Wow, that's a tenor. That's a tenor
right there. And I can confirm it's not as high

(02:24):
as it was in twenty seventeen, which I find out
every year when I go to tour my Christmas show,
and I realized I wrote it for a woman, and
I have what's very much a man's voice nowadays, but
it is still a tenor voice. You'll remember a few
months ago, if you're a devoted reader Katie Publicists finalist
that consumes this podcast regularly, you'll remember when Betty Gilpin

(02:47):
was on this podcast and she said Bowen's voice with mine,
it's like piccolo and bassoon. I'm giving sort of piccolo
like fluting above and Bowen's sort of and like dude.
And so I realized that that energy was really missing,
and so I got a fucking bassoon to be on

(03:09):
the podcast with me today because I feel that vocally
he's giving bassoon and this is gonna really soothe your ears.
You may even describe our energy on this podcast and
this is a segway coming as very Lydia and Wickham
and I've seen some of the YouTube what do they
call them? Like they go on YouTube and they'll put

(03:30):
like a clip package together of like usually like the
background music is like you and clad dude, and it's
like just like posted together clips of like when you're
a really hot person on a CW. You shall you
sort of get this, which is you sort of get
like put together in a YouTube clip package and you
get to have like you and clad and there's like

(03:52):
fuzzy transitions and it's really fun. I'm just so thrilled
to welcome a true thespian. We'll we'll talk about how
he exemplified those skills at the last Cultures's Culture Awards,
But please welcome my basoon for this episode, Zan Phillips.
Oh my god. So you came with a high WU.
I know, I know, well I had to really.

Speaker 2 (04:14):
So first of all, we need to talk about how
when you first said that, I thought you had gotten
an actual basoon to like come and be on the podcast.

Speaker 1 (04:20):
And if I then and then like just swipped out
like a four minute solo Bason and solo.

Speaker 2 (04:24):
I mean I would have not been surprised. Do you
think I do think so? I think I think you have. Honestly,
you do have some secret talents.

Speaker 1 (04:33):
Yeah, I guess maybe.

Speaker 2 (04:35):
Yeah, it's the cross country of it all, you know,
it's the baseball of it all.

Speaker 1 (04:40):
Yeah, I mean I guess I do have an athletic past. Yeah, yeah,
And so I can certainly throw a ball. And I
think you would have been a star in band. I
played clarinet for two years where you go. So you
were doing more in high school. And I love how
immediately we get it. I'm getting into the nugget and
of who you are. It wasn't sports for.

Speaker 2 (04:56):
You in middle school in high school, no, because I
grew up like South Dember, like that's where I was born,
and so there I was fully I think I was
fully on track to be developing like a normal gay kid.
Like I was playing a lot of pretend I was
running through the forest. I was, you know, sort of frolicking.
That was frollicking. It was a lot of frollicking. So
and so then when I moved to Texas and middle school,

(05:19):
the frolicking was no more. And suddenly it was U,
T R, A, and M and so that was that
was kind of the thing. So I was thrust into
that in a in a way that I wasn't quite
prepared for. So I sort of receded and instead I
went to academics.

Speaker 1 (05:31):
That was sort of mine.

Speaker 2 (05:32):
You you became smartl culture. That was yet yeah, yeah,
so smartle culture. I mean English English star. That's another
hidden talent. I certainly was English star. But here's the
thing about Zane Phillips. The quirks in your personality, which
I think are the best are And I made sure
I had today hot coffee only.

Speaker 1 (05:47):
Okay, hot coffee only. This is the part where they
culture eludes you. You're not coldbrew culture. I'm not coldbrew
culture because it makes you crazy. No, it's not even that,
because I think, like, I'm going to be crazy regardless,
and I know that about myself. But no, I think
there's something one. I love brewing coffee. I love the

(06:09):
ritual ritual.

Speaker 2 (06:10):
Yeah, because I do my little and now I've been
doing half calf, so there's something even more complicated to it,
you know.

Speaker 1 (06:17):
So I'll do a little bit.

Speaker 2 (06:18):
Of like my dark roast, and then I'll do my
declf and I'll do the little bean blender.

Speaker 1 (06:24):
My mom is going to be able to be so
happy to hear this, because she is one of those
people that does like half declf half regular calf, and
I'm like, you know, that's just regular calf. Yeah, And
she also does half and half in milk and I'm like,
that's milk, but it's slightly fattier milk.

Speaker 2 (06:39):
Cause I think like in Europe, can't you get like
three percent milk?

Speaker 1 (06:43):
What? Yeah, super duper fat milk. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (06:45):
But that's the thing is like I think there's so
many percents that we're not investigating. Wow, we're limiting ourselves
with skim.

Speaker 1 (06:55):
Well, I was a two percent house. I think we
were two. I think we were two.

Speaker 2 (06:59):
Yeah, two percent is valid and valuable, but I mean
imagine it's.

Speaker 1 (07:03):
Actually really culture number eighty eight is valid and valuable.

Speaker 2 (07:08):
It is, And I think you know what would four
percent give? I mean also also heavy cream? Is that
one hundred percent? I don't think so, right, And I
don't think so, Honey, I don't think so.

Speaker 1 (07:18):
Is that just butter? Oh yeah, I guess I would,
really I would.

Speaker 2 (07:21):
I personally, I'm at a point in my life where
I can drop everything and do a dairy investigation. I see,
like sort of a serial type of thing. I'm actually
gonna do a podcast which is like a really good
science fair but spelling cereal.

Speaker 1 (07:33):
Yeah, I mean it's it's literally leading back to academic culture,
literally coming up with science for topics. Oh yeah.

Speaker 2 (07:39):
On the podcast, if any twelve year olds or like
I got something what to do?

Speaker 1 (07:44):
Or if any parents out there, because can we talk
about parents doing their science?

Speaker 2 (07:47):
Can talk about God? Yeah, no, we we definitely. I
don't I don't remember doing science fairs, but the way
that my mom came through for all of my crazy
because did you when Okay, so let's say you had
a project. I remember this one I had in sixth
grade and we were doing I don't know, we were
like reading a book, as one does in sixth grade.

Speaker 1 (08:06):
Yea, and often often that happens.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
It happens frequently, and so I remember we had to
create a timeline and the point is you had to
make it interesting or something. And for some reason, because
I was also really enveloped in food culture at this point,
I was like, I'm going to make a fully edible timeline.
And so I made like a giant cookie and then
I did like a hard glaze on it and then
was like drawing on it with edible.

Speaker 1 (08:28):
It was it was so the timeline was was on
a big cookie. It was on a big cookie. Yeah,
oh my god? Yeah? And did you score an excellent grade?

Speaker 2 (08:36):
I don't remember. All I remember is my mother staying
up with me and do the cookie. Yeah, because it
was so I was over complicating everything I possibly could.
You know, I feel like were you part of that too?
You know what I was? It depended on the subject.

Speaker 1 (08:49):
Like for me, it was like that to me, like
that's not even whole economics, Like were you science boy?
I was, Yeah, I was sort of giving stem You
were giving math science, and I was giving other side
of their brain. I was like English social studies and
then brain dead when it came to the other. However,
I did come up with one science fair that actually

(09:12):
was good, and I think my science for a project
kind of gave and I'm going to pitch it to you.
No tell me if you think this is a contender
for a Science for a Winter. So my project was
I wanted to know what kind of cup kept liquid's
coldest the longest. So I did a glass cup, a
plastic cup, a paper cup, a mug like a ceramic mug,

(09:37):
and then a styrofoam cup. Okay, well those are all
the cups. I don't know another cup. And first of all,
I was also searching because like, who the fuck thinks
about a styrofoam cup, you know what I mean? Like
back in the day though, before the awareness of like
you don't really want to be drinking out of styrofoam
because it's like it can be health, you know, rescue.
But the styrofoam cup did keep the liquid coldest the longest,

(10:00):
So that was sort of the problematic result of my
science experiment. And I did get honorable mention for it.

Speaker 2 (10:06):
Okay, So honorable mention meaning there was first place, There.

Speaker 1 (10:10):
Was first place, second place, third place, and I believe
they gave an honorable mention Okay, and I mean fourth place.
Does that functionally mean fourth place? I think it means
it probably means fourth place, Yeah, I guess.

Speaker 2 (10:20):
Or does it mean it's another axis because I think first, second,
and third are probably all along the science axis. But
you were giving was you were giving real life applicability
in a way that by you even telling.

Speaker 1 (10:31):
Me this right now, I've learned something.

Speaker 2 (10:33):
And I don't think I don't think any of those first, second,
or third placers could have helped me in my life
right now.

Speaker 1 (10:38):
No, And my thing is like, I think that's where
I earned a distinction. They said, this is a project
that is worthy of a sort of we have to
mention it because this is functional culture. This is functional culture. Yeah,
that might have been the smartest I ever was. But
I guess the academic culture for you, like for me,
it ended there's that's the smartest I ever got. Yeah.
For you, my image of you is drinking your hot

(11:02):
coffee during the summer and absolutely.

Speaker 2 (11:05):
Slaying the crossword. Yeah, And it was ritualistic for you.

Speaker 1 (11:09):
It was. It was really ritualistic.

Speaker 2 (11:11):
And I think I feel like it was cemented during
the pandemic too, because I would wake up every morning
and that was my way of, yeah, feeling like I
had something to do, because I was also tutoring at
the time, so it was morning crossword coffee, afternoon tutoring,
try to get a work out somewhere in between.

Speaker 1 (11:28):
Yeah. That is so funny how things change in such
a short amount of time, because I do remember like
you were like tutoring constantly, yes, And I think I
remember telling you I was like, you know what, I think,
maybe you don't have to tutor anymore. And I think
I was part of I think I was like there
during the sea change of like Zane realizing he's not
a tutor anymore, he's actually an actor.

Speaker 2 (11:50):
It was really wild for that to happen, I think,
I mean, god, it was such a sea change because
I think for me, I never felt I always felt
more comfortable. I mean, there's those of us who just
feel comfortable doing school, like we were comfortable getting the
a's and working on the things that had, you know,
one right answer. Yeah, And it is so crazy to

(12:11):
me sometimes I think, I'm like, I can't believe I
am in the arts. I think you know that I
as a person who have this brain that needs one
to one relationships. It is crazy to me that I'm
an actor. And so I think you were definitely there
during a part of my life where I was starting
to gain a lot more confidence in that sort of
creative mess. Right now, I'm just fully entrenched in. I'm

(12:34):
the dumbest I've ever been, and.

Speaker 1 (12:36):
I'm so excited. Were the most open and I'm the
most open.

Speaker 2 (12:40):
Yeah, I think, yeah, yeah, I think I'm just I'm
putting my eggs are Yeah, they're just rolling around.

Speaker 1 (12:46):
They're not even in baskets. You know.

Speaker 2 (12:48):
Every time I feel like we see a combination of
queers in media, it's like an undiscovered molecule, you know,
like suddenly there's a dynamic and an aspect to it
that I feel like I've never seen before, and it's
it doesn't even matter whether it doesn't matter, like there's
there's always something that I feel like is new because

(13:11):
I think queer people we are chameleons in a way, right,
We've we've always had to move through this exactly, exactly exactly,
and I think, you know, it's something that I've had
to unpack with myself, because my god, you can get
so far away from who you actually know yourself to
be without even realizing it, you know. But on the
other hand, like, I really love being able to play

(13:33):
into that and that was I mean, it's really enjoyable
to me to think about the various molecules that we
can continue to create, and especially even within I mean,
I feel like our cohort of career performers are sort
of coming up right now and we're all starting to
like work with each other, and you know, we're in
and out of products with each other. That's really special
to me. It's giving, Pa, Listen, it's giving.

Speaker 1 (13:57):
I don't know. Yeah, what is the gay version called.
I don't know what is that. We'll find it. Blat
packs they called that because they essentially they really nailed
it in the eighties with Brat Pack. Brat Pack. I
know kind pack gat Pack might be too hot for
TV TV honestly, but not too hot for this pod,
not for this no nothing, I mean, I just you

(14:18):
have to miss Penny was on last week, you know,
we went there.

Speaker 2 (14:29):
Here's the thing, you know, I feel so blessed to
have not peaked in high school. You know, I think, Man,
if you're out there and you're younger and you're not
feeling like you've totally come into yourself, know that there
is going to be a day where you are so
glad that it took time.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Yeah, that's really nice.

Speaker 2 (14:48):
Yeah, because I'm I was so socially anxious and so
just it was really hard for me to make friends
and feel like I was cool or probably you know whatever,
however the metrics were in to school high school. But
I do think it has allowed me to sort of
figure out what the what are just the things that

(15:08):
make me happy and find the friends that actually enjoy
me for me, And yeah, the truth is, I'm like
a total doof And I love the fact that I
was able to sort of explore that a little bit.
And again, it was one of the first times I
was able to like, that's why I was so I
felt like I was, you know, walking on the moon
for the first time. Yes, every step so trepidaciously. But

(15:30):
I don't think I could have done it without, you know,
having the background of like working with y'all. And when
I was doing theater, there was so much and you
were doing theater for all your twenty years. Yeah, yeah, yeah,
I mean that's you know. I did get my BFA
in music theater from Elon University, and you weaponized it
and I weaponized it to an extent. But the thing is,
you know, with theater, I never felt like what I

(15:54):
brought to the table was what was being asked of me,
if that makes sense, because you know you're hearing me.
I'm giving bassoon, you know. But your spirit is Palta, yeah,
my spirit, and my spirit is God who knows like
Marimba yeah and Malarimba Spirit.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Title of app.

Speaker 2 (16:13):
Spirit Uhma Spirit. I love that track name for you, honestly. Okay,
Remba Spirit, but on that red wig again, we'll do it.
But no, I think you know, you come into a space,
you're a man of a certain height, you know, And
I don't know, I just felt like there was never

(16:33):
anything that asked me to feel too deeply or to
have interesting perspectives on things. And and I was doing
my best, you know, because I was doing the boyfriend
roles and I was doing the sort of the pleasant
guy who's just around yes, you know, and everyone kept
on telling me, like saying, just wait until you're thirty,
the theater roles will just come swinging. And I just,

(16:55):
I don't know, like I was so tired of waiting
to grow into a type yeah, because I think for
so long I had let myself be blown around by
the winds around me. Because Texas is very I mean,
that's very taxes right, it's not you.

Speaker 1 (17:11):
Know, I don't know.

Speaker 2 (17:12):
I always thought like New York is giving hustle, make
things happen, you know, I create my own opportunities. Texas
is very much. I'm just grateful for what I have.
I wait for God to show me what the right
move is. And I think I had to unlearn a
lot of that. And with that, I just started to
realize theater wasn't making me happy. Right around that time,

(17:34):
the pandemic hit, and so you know, there wasn't any
theater happening anyway, and so I think that's why right
now when I'm looking at my career and I'm looking
at what i want to do, my god, it's like
I feel like the world has opened up in terms
of what is even out there, just the range that again,
like whenever you have these queer characters, especially now, like

(17:56):
they are showing so many different sides to themselves, they
are having so many different stories and I mean like
to have It's like every single archetype out there can
be queered. And we haven't dug to the bottom of
the well yet, you know. It's there's so much still
out there, you know. And I think that's my thing
is like as long as I can continue doing different things,

(18:18):
as long as I continue being a part of that.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Yeah, And and like I guess what's important to me
now is making sure And of course obviously there's this
thing of like, you know, you have to work, and
so you do what you have to do to work.
But like the dream is to be a part of
interesting things, you know what I mean, things that are
at least like even if they're swings or you know,

(18:43):
even if they're you know, something that finds an audience
later or like isn't necessarily appreciated based on the trailer
of what it is or whatever whatever, it just at
least was different, had something to say and had perspective,
because that's I guess my thing is, it's just like,
what is the perspective? Like, there's things and what frustrates
me is a lot of the media that we're being

(19:06):
asked to consume now has lost all perspective. I really
think that's why the superhero movies are all washing out,
is because there's so much of them, Because it feels
like all we're being given that we're losing perspective. And
I just think even with television, like you know, I
wonder when I watch and just like that if the
perspective is still there, and you know what I mean.

(19:29):
It's just like there's so many things where I'm like,
I just hope that we can keep interesting things happening,
and because it feels like it's less and less. Maybe
just a frustrating moment for the industry in general, but
like that's what I look for and I want to
be involved in totally.

Speaker 2 (19:45):
And I think that's what you have been involved in
so far. I've really lucky and I feel like so
of you and I think that is one of the
things too, that is like, you know, that's what we
can fall back on because you know, I don't know
about you, but right now I expect every to be
the last. You know, I don't expect anything to you know,
I do the work, and then I'm looking for like, Okay,

(20:07):
how can I still create that next opportunity because the
world isn't necessarily always going to support the interesting work.

Speaker 1 (20:14):
So you know, we have to do it.

Speaker 2 (20:15):
We have to put her all into it, and then
we have to keep moving forward and keep trying to
find it.

Speaker 1 (20:19):
And that's when you probably do have to be like
grateful for the fact that, like through your twenties you
were constantly working. Yeah, because that's another thing is it's
just like I mean, flat out, point blank, when you
have like a learned history of like I had to
keep pustling. I had to keep working. And that goes
all the way back to me in like high school.
It's like the second I could get a job, my

(20:41):
dad was like you're going in busing tables. Yes, you
know what I mean, Like that was how I was.
So that's what informs my thing as an actor of
like got to work and that's just I guess something
I'm grateful for now is that nothing gets taken for granted.
And just with that idea of like that being like
a central tenet of like why we the way we are?
I want to transition to asking you the central question

(21:03):
of this podcast, the central tenet of this podcast, which
is for those whose first episode this is that's everyone
who loves those YouTube super cuts that are that are
cut to Howie Day's Collide. Absolutely, we ask everyone on
this podcast what was the culture that made you say?
Culture was for you that moment in life that you

(21:26):
can look back on, whether it's a micro r macro
thing that you're like Zaane became Zane as a result
of fill in the blank.

Speaker 2 (21:34):
Yeah, it's so funny because this is going to be
I think an almost identical answer to Miss Benny's really yes,
because we had talked a lot about I mean, it's
weird how similar Benny and I's reference points end up being.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
But it was absolutely top model.

Speaker 3 (21:51):
Really.

Speaker 1 (21:52):
Oh that's so funny because I was like, maybe he
doesn't know what Miss Benny said, because it can't be
top model for wore.

Speaker 2 (22:00):
I'm twelve years old, right, I remember this is like
I think spring like two thousand and six or something.
I'm starting to, uh, you know, we have like a
computer now, we you know, we're starting to like come
into our own on the.

Speaker 1 (22:12):
Internet family computer vibes. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (22:15):
Absolutely, So I don't know how it happened, but I'm
just remembering the imagery of because first of all, let's
talk about the Top Model promo shoots were always insane, insane,
incredibly like arresting.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
Yep, you know this. This was the days of course
when it was still on UPN.

Speaker 2 (22:33):
They were in fact models, they were in fact they
really got that from the pictures.

Speaker 1 (22:37):
It's actually a rural culture number eighty eight on Top Model.
They were in fact models, and you really got that
from the pictures.

Speaker 2 (22:45):
Yeah, And so it was I think the theme was,
I don't know, they were all fairies. This is cycle six, right,
And I think because because you know, TV was very
much like a shared thing for our families, So anything
that I was experiencing, I was experiencing with my family.
This was the first time where I was starting to
experience something away from them and away from the immediate

(23:06):
culture around me, because I was in Texas at this
point and so like there was No, this was a
singular experience that I was I was going through doesn't
rerun culture. It wasn't rerun culture. So specifically what it
was was recap culture.

Speaker 1 (23:18):
Recap. Yeah, and so did you ever remember television without pitty?
Of course? Yeah.

Speaker 2 (23:23):
So that became sort of my like daily temple of
sorts like I would because I couldn't watch anything, but
I would keep up and I started reading recaps for
all these shows that I had never seen. I would
go back and read recaps for all these different things.
And so that's why now I am sort of like
I feel definition a reader, you know what I mean,
because because that's that's a lot of times how I

(23:46):
still look.

Speaker 1 (23:46):
You understand that breakdown of what it means to be
a reader?

Speaker 2 (23:49):
Absolutely absolutely, yes, yes, because I'm not a lot of times,
you know, I don't talk about culture like I don't
engage in like cultural commentary on Twitter or anything like that.
But I'm always taking things in. I'm always getting things
through osmosis. You're no, No, I'm not. I'm not a publicist,
you know, and I can only hope to be a finalist.

(24:09):
Fun I think I think I'm honorable mentioning fourth placing,
which I'm fine with.

Speaker 1 (24:17):
I'm fine with, I feel comfortable with that.

Speaker 2 (24:18):
But I think specifically with Top Model, there's something about
the transformational aspect of that show, god right, which is that,
I mean, one, we love a process of elimination and finding,
you know, bullshit reasons to get rid of girls. But
also it was the fact that you took these sort
of you know, these normal people I mean all around
the country and turn them into something else. And I

(24:41):
think that's why it's such a brilliant concept for a show, right,
So why the makeover episode is so iconic is because
a lot of times it was just to torture them,
but then sometimes that was where I don't know, I just.

Speaker 1 (24:53):
Thought one saw themselves for the first time for real exactly.

Speaker 2 (24:55):
It's like it's like in the way that snatch game
on Drag Race sort of clinches who were the contender?

Speaker 1 (25:00):
Is the makeover clinched who were the contenders on that show?

Speaker 2 (25:03):
Because it was okay, how could you take something new,
adapt it to yourself and then honestly make it your power?
And so I think, yeah, So for me, I think
seeing I mean, it's it's wild now because you know,
now I'm like starting to do photo shoots and you know,
and I think I still keep with me this idea
that I love this act of transformation. I love this

(25:27):
this act of sort of I mean it's you know,
it's with acting as well of being able to put
something on and have that become your new power for
the day, right yeah, so so yeah so, I mean,
but I was obsessed and so like I memorized elimination orders.
I knew exactly like who went home on which photo shoot.

Speaker 1 (25:44):
And this was because of television without pity, without watching
it or were you watching it?

Speaker 2 (25:49):
No, I don't think I watched it for a couple
of years because then they would start, because then I
think I was able to catch some of they would have,
like the marathons of VH one or whatever. Yes, of course,
I don't think, because I think they were still pretty
tight about how it was airing, with like the UPN
and CW thing. But but yeah, I was. I was
like obsessed with figuring out like just just parsing out

(26:10):
why was something, I mean, why was something ridiculous? I mean,
I don't know, I remember like the god like the
photo recaps on Tumblr too, Like I was just really
big into recap culture.

Speaker 1 (26:20):
Yeah, and that was sort of my gateway. So it
was really the fact that you couldn't be up in
your house watching this because of a self consciousness maybe
or just because of like a not even just that,
but also just like real estate wise, like it was
not gonna be what everyone was watching together. It was
also just not straight boys in Texas didn't watch them

(26:41):
do that.

Speaker 2 (26:42):
No, yeah, they didn't do that. It's not that would
be a pretty big giveaway. I think see.

Speaker 1 (26:47):
Where was I maybe Long Island was just different, or
maybe metro sexual culture was just hitting really hard where
I grew up because it was fine that I watched
American Idol America's Next Top Model. And also I think
it was the recap of the not the recap, the
rerun of it all, because that's how I got its
top Well. I certainly was not. I don't think I
ever watched it when it was on m or the

(27:08):
WB or whatever it was. It was like those thirteen
episodes in a row on v H one where it
was like you could start in the morning and then
it was like crack. By the end, it was like
is it Carrie d or Melrose? And it was famously
Carrie D. Wow, and the way that we were all
team Carrie D. And now you look back and you're like,

(27:30):
it was Melrose. It was about Melrose.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
It was always and it probably was about another girl
that didn't even make it that true. I think that
was the Twins that season and they were they were God.

Speaker 1 (27:41):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:41):
Season seven was really an interesting time. So no, that
was season sorry. Season eight Season eight was Cycle eight
was carry Dan Melrose.

Speaker 1 (27:48):
Yeah. Maybe you're right. Wow, that is encyclopedic and that
can only be attained by at a formative time in
life being on message boards like that and websites like that. Yes, yes,
which was very much my culture too.

Speaker 2 (28:00):
Yes, yes, And it was the fact too, because now
you know, I find too that the best way I
feel like I can enjoy things is by watching them
with other people and then talking about it afterwards and
then having the full water cooler conversation.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I was on the ground for you getting into Survivor.

Speaker 2 (28:16):
You were you were absolutely yeah and that and that
was big for me and being able to I mean
because I've been I keep on texting you being like wow, Matt,
like Nicaragua underrated, right, and You're like I I'm gonna
be honest.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
And I was like, I'm going to be real. You
might have outsurvived me on this one. I don't think
i've seen Nicaragua, but like, I remember you getting into it,
and I also remember being like, you would slay this show.
I so I've told you this.

Speaker 2 (28:39):
I'm doing so Matt Pavlovich, who's like, I don't know
if you know him, but anyway, he's a friend of
my friends, but now you know we're friends. But anyway,
he does this Survivor oh thing every year. So I'm
doing it on Saturday.

Speaker 1 (28:49):
So you're doing on Saturday. Yes, it's coming up, It's
coming up. Now, this episode will come out after this exactly,
So listen, we can talk about what your game plan
is exactly. So let's just play out a fantasy scenario
where sure, you're doing this on Saturday, but using are
cast on Survivor. Yeah, what are we giving? Okay? So,
and I know you're looking at me is getting already.
I know, I'm like sweating. I'm like so excited.

Speaker 2 (29:11):
Okay, So I think let's talk about like classic Survivor,
because twenty six Day Survivor, I feel like it's a
little bit of a different ball game.

Speaker 1 (29:17):
So I'm not into what's no.

Speaker 2 (29:20):
No, I'm not either, but but I think pre merge, right,
I'm if you all. I mean, I know podcasting is
visual medium, but you know, if you can picture me,
I'm a pretty big guy.

Speaker 1 (29:32):
Yeah, I at least give an appearance of athleticism. You
come with a let's just say there is an air
about you where you'd think physical threat.

Speaker 2 (29:41):
Sure, sure, so hopefully right pre merge strategy right is
be friendly enough?

Speaker 1 (29:48):
Right? Right?

Speaker 2 (29:49):
Just just make people know that I'm hey, I'm not crazy,
I'm here for the team, right, so that I can
I just need to make it to merge, right, have
the good enough relationships the thing is right. I feel
like post merge obviously is all about threat management totally obviously.
So here's the thing. It really depends. I feel like,
you know, it depends on who you're with and whether

(30:10):
you are with smart people, because I think like if
I can connect with someone and really let them know,
like without putting it all out there, like hey, I'm
actually like my strength is not what I bring physically.
My strength is actually hopefully what I can bring mentally.
You know, if if they did those little you know,

(30:31):
remember the challenges they used to do with, Like they'd
read the story and then you'd have to like go around.
Yeah yeah, I like like that'd be my king shit,
Like I would be I'd be very good at that,
you know, which no one would expect, you know, So
so you know I need to hide that long ens,
but hopefully like yeah, have the good alliance and then
you know, realistically, I just I just want to make jury.
I just want to be a part of the full
process because I really don't think, Yeah, I don't think

(30:54):
i'd be able to make it to the end.

Speaker 1 (30:55):
You don't think, so, I just I don't know.

Speaker 2 (30:59):
It's like, you know, you have to think about all
the factors that sort of compile right to create this
image of who's a threat and who's not right. And
I'm not trying to gasp myself up, but I think
I'm just I can be pleasant. I can be a
pleasant person. So that doesn't always work in your favor.

Speaker 1 (31:16):
No, I think that there's this idea that you don't want. Well,
what Surviverer has really become is it's like how do
you mask how good you are? You know what I mean?
It's like because you want to ultimately get to the
final three, so you can then reveal, hopefully in an

(31:36):
eloquent way, which is a whole other thing, is that
you have to really deliver an amazing final tribal and
ultimately ends up being how charismatic and how convincing you
are at that point. But it's also about showing in
that moment the surprising and sort of brand new ways

(31:57):
you have navigated getting there, and how you fooled everyone
into thinking that you were one thing and actually you
were not only just good at this, but a mastermind.
So it's like, I think we've seen in the last
five seasons of Survivor the quote unquote best player who
certainly would have won in like a Kim Spradland year,
like come in fifth.

Speaker 2 (32:18):
Yes, Like I'm reminded eight eighth through fifth is where
all the stars go.

Speaker 1 (32:23):
I'm reminded of Shannon Ricard, I'm reminded of Hi I'm
reminded of Jesse Carla Guess, Jesse Carla. These these contestants
that in many ways like would have won ten to
fifteen seasons ago, but now it's almost impossible for them
to win, which makes it incredibly difficult to prove you

(32:47):
deserve to win toy because we've seen and I think
it's an unfortunate pattern, but I also understand the pattern
the past three or four years. You would not have
picked those people in the opening episodes of the show
to win the show. And even that's even like that
with the runners up, you know what I mean, It's
like it sort of becomes this new thing of like,

(33:07):
how do I just get to the end and then
prove I was stealth it's expert.

Speaker 2 (33:14):
It feels like a more frantic game. It feels like
a more it feels like, honestly, the social aspect has
has deteriorated a little bit, absolutely, you know, and especially
with all I mean, it's with all the advantages and
the it's it's it's too much. And I think what
the beauty of the game is and the reason why
I think everyone gets obsessed with it is because you

(33:34):
can see so much of when you're watching, you know,
one of the older seasons, it is so easy to
see yourself there, and suddenly your brain goes through all
the options of like how you would do in this situation,
because there are a ton of ways to go through,
but there's you know, there's nothing to be done when
there's eight idols out there and you know it's it's

(33:54):
and the.

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Thing where it's like someone can smash the hourglass and
time goes back. It's like that.

Speaker 2 (33:59):
There's when it was like eleven people in the margin,
only four people were eligible for getting voted out. Like
that's that's why it's like, how do you even you
can't even play the game anymore because the game, the
game is just gonna do what it wants, and like,
you know, you just have to not be screwed.

Speaker 1 (34:15):
That's like a macro note I have about like reality
shows in general that I've been on for a long
time that are really trying to find new ways to
feel relevant and to feel exciting. You actually do that
with casting. And this is why I would say that
Carolyn Weiger was such a star is because they found
someone really compelling, yes, and they found someone who you

(34:39):
could root for and understand, but also was going to
be polarizing in behavior. I always was saying during the season,
like Carolyn Weiger would have been on the cover of
People magazine had this happened in two thousand and eleven,
you know what I mean, Like, had this been back
in the day, Carolyn as a character would have been
a huge star. But I think that that's why this

(35:00):
my favorite season out of the ones that have happened
since Winters of War, is because it feels like they
really hit the jackpot with casters, and like all of
them were compelling and had fun stories, and even if
you admite a decision about them, you saw like a
package that was put together about their life. Like I
kind of like didn't really care too much about Heidi,

(35:23):
and then they put together a package on her life,
and I remember at the end of the package, I
was like, Oh, I'm fully rooting for her now, which
should be the way it feels. And I think the
mistake that's being made and maybe it's rectified now that
this season was such a success, is that there's an
idea that the stunts are what invests people in the show,
and I just think that is such a miscalculation. It

(35:44):
is about characters. It is about character dynamics, It's about casting.
I mean, that's what separates even like a really good
season of Drag Race from anything else. It's like, you
want to remember the people you know, say what you
want about, like how you might feel about like what
Candy Muse is acting like on the season of All Stars,
you remember Candy Muse forever, you know what I mean.

(36:08):
That's why you keep seeing some of these people come back,
like Eureka, Like you might not gag for Eureka's personality,
but you remember Eureka to you remember Vangie, Like you
need to cast stars in this thing. And just before
we even got on this, we were talking about The Traders,
right right, Okay, yeah, let's let's get into that.

Speaker 2 (36:25):
Get in the Traders, because so I think The Traders
was good, but it felt imperfect. It felt like there
there was some stuff missing. Yeah, so tell me first
your thoughts because because we were talking, Yeah.

Speaker 1 (36:34):
We were talking a little bit, and then I said,
we have to save it. So what has been announced
about the second season of The Traders? Were just coming
so excited. Alan Cumming did win Outstanding Reality Competition Host

(36:55):
of the last Culture Rasa's Culture Awards, which was my
big thing during the first season because it felt really
ugly at the end of the first season of The
Traders when the quote unquote real people were so gagged
and unforgiving of Suri for playing the games she was
cast to play and winning and doing it well. The
fact that you didn't know who you were dealing with

(37:17):
is your fucking problem. And now I think with a
cast of all reality stars, we're going to have people
who are on board, who know the assignment and are
going to want to play the game and the same
tamber And that's my opinion.

Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, absolutely, and I do agree with that. Yet it
should either be all reality stars. I would be curious
to see it with all just normal people. And I
think that's the way the original.

Speaker 1 (37:36):
UK is they do it in the UK like that, which,
by the way, the UK Traders is a great watch.
Watch to watch it. It's really really good and it
just goes to show what a great game it is
because it goes in a completely different way.

Speaker 2 (37:50):
Right, Because so my main issue with this first season
of the US version is because if you compare it
with something like The Mole, right where the Mole is
going to be there till the very end anyway, right,
So there's no issue with them, and the point of
it is that they're supposed to sabotage the challenges and
so I don't know, the game of it feels very clean, right,

(38:11):
whereas with The Traders, first of all, what incentive is
there for the traders to do anything but pretend to
be faithful?

Speaker 1 (38:20):
Right? What?

Speaker 2 (38:21):
There is absolutely no incentive, right, So essentially everyone is
playing the game the same, right, They're all trying to
get money for the pot because they can all win
the money, right. So I feel like there needs to
be something added to where either the traders are incentivized
to sabotage the challenges, or they're incentivized to reveal to

(38:42):
sort of risk their secrecy, or there has to be
a way for the faithful to like win clues something
like that, because what I feel like I found watching
the season is I had no idea why anyone was
getting voted out.

Speaker 1 (38:54):
It was just all vibes, you know.

Speaker 2 (38:57):
And I just think like, if you're going to just
go off vibes, make it more of a social game,
then you know what I mean? If the challenges are
you know, typical reality show challenges like physical aspects, but
that doesn't do anything to actually help.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
No.

Speaker 2 (39:10):
Yeah, So that that was my thing is I kept
on being like, it feels like two different shows and
I and I wouldn't know. I'm not with the people
in understanding really why, yeah, you're getting.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
I also don't even need the physical challenges at all.
I almost feel like we really go clue with this.
Lock them in the house. The vibe is that makes
them even more crazy, and the way that money is
earned is a little bit more similar to them all,
and that like it's things around the house and like
social games we can play like literal like you know, mysteries, riddles,

(39:42):
things like that that take place in the house that
also thematically and anesthetically go more with the traders vibe
of like this like secrecy, this like you know, intrigue,
because when we leave the house, it literally becomes like
the challenge. It literally becomes like real world road rules
in a way where I'm like, this doesn't feel like it.
And the only reason it feels like we're doing this

(40:04):
is because we have these reality show cast members and
we want to see them like this because it's familiar
to us. Yeah, I think that we could simplify this
and just think of a more creative way to make
money a driving factory with different stakes for the traders
and the faith.

Speaker 2 (40:22):
There's like maybe there's almost like two different pots or something.
There's like a secret trader pot and like, uh, exactly
like a faceboo pot or something.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Yeah, and maybe more things are done in the dark exactly.

Speaker 2 (40:33):
I think there just needs to be because I remember
when like Kate, for example, was like throwing away the barrels, right,
I was like, well, this doesn't this like you wouldn't
because the trader wants money too, so this is nothing.

Speaker 1 (40:45):
But this isn't an interesting gameplay move. It's just her
being annoying. And here I thought actually the opposite, because
I was like, she's actually proving that she she believes
the game is going in a way where the traders
are winning, yes, and so therefore she's like, I'm going
to show you how much I'm not a trader. They're
gonna win, and I don't want them to win money,

(41:05):
so I'm throwing it down the hill. I don't want
the traders to win, which could go either way either way.

Speaker 2 (41:11):
And that's an interesting perspective. I just, you know, wish
we could have like heard more from her.

Speaker 1 (41:15):
Right exactly, because really more of the takes a katou
from her work, Like I don't like being here, and
I remember Kate was very polarizing on the show. But
I'm like, yeah, but that it's fun to watch yeah,
you know what I mean. And the thing about reality
show cast members is their stunt queens. In a way,
these boring girls aren't, because that's one thing that almost

(41:36):
everyone that was enormy on the show shared was they
were all boring. Yeah, And there's a reason why someone
has success on a reality show and is cast again
and is in play for something like this is because
they are compelling, which brings me back to the survivor
of it all, which is you need compelling. Yes, yes,

(41:57):
it was.

Speaker 2 (41:58):
Also it was one of the reasons why I was
so obsessed with the first two seasons of The Mole
way back in like two thousand and one.

Speaker 1 (42:04):
Did you watch the new one?

Speaker 2 (42:05):
I did watch the new one, and I think, yeah,
it was exactly what you're saying is we saw really
interesting challenges you saw. What I love about The Mole
is that it involves the place in a really tangible way.

Speaker 1 (42:15):
You know, they were in Australia.

Speaker 2 (42:16):
It was all these things, but it was cast like
the Circle, you know what I mean, And you had
all these sort of hot dummies and I'm like, oh
my god, nobody's even knowing how to play the game.
Whereas I the first season of the Male is one
of the best reality competition shows you'll ever watch because
the characters are interesting, they're smart, and they're all affected
differently by the game, like the Mole. The Mole of

(42:38):
season one is one of the most interesting reality TV
characters I've ever seen. They process their role in the
game in such an intriguing way.

Speaker 1 (42:46):
There's also something to with the Male not knowing, yeah,
the audience literally not knowing, whereas like, yes, which is
the central thing of The Traders, is you know? And
so I thought from the very beginning, I'm like, is
this gonna take away from it? And I actually now
a note I have for the Mole is like I
kind of wanted to know, Like, of course there's that

(43:07):
element of surprise and it's a completely different thing. But
what I like about The Traders is knowing the whole
time and really appreciating a good Trader. Yeah, like Sori
like was so excellent at that and her acting was
so good and she was so compelling. And the thing
is like the way that no one really even suspected

(43:30):
her that was there at the end. Meanwhile, people that
did suspect her early on, like Brandy Glanville, which the
fact that Brandy Glanville was perceptive was mind blowing to me,
but she was gone, ye. Like so I think at
its full potential, it has this incredible opportunity to give
what the mole gives and also give like the best

(43:52):
of survivor in this atmosphere which feels very brand new,
which is the Castle and Alan is so good and
I love the set design of them sitting around that table.
I love so much of what they've found that I'm
excited that at least one thing is going to be
improved from last to first in my purview, and it

(44:14):
sounds like yours two, which is we're getting people that
are all on the same page. Yes.

Speaker 2 (44:18):
Yeah, it puts everyone to watch them get that upset. No,
and also like it puts everyone in an even playing
field in terms of being visible, you know what I mean,
Like people would have suspicions of you know, these random
reality TV characters because you're like, well, I know who
you are. I've seen how you played where it's like
You're like, I don't know, little plain girl.

Speaker 1 (44:36):
Yeah, you know, I don't know who you are. Who
are you? You know? It's it's And what I also
like is it's like, had the finalists that were Normani's
in Season one of the Traders not been fools, they
would have known this. But what I love is that
as a re established reality show person amongst other established
reality show people who are all aware of each other,
it then presents the challenge of playing against type, needing

(44:59):
to play against type. So, for example, if someone like
Parvity were to be cast on season two of the Traders,
that would be a really interesting challenge for her because
she comes with a background of deviousness. If you know
who party is like, you are not going to let
her stay no, and that was what happened with her

(45:21):
and Winners at War, So it presents an interesting challenge.
But also then if they were to cast people on
the same level as her, like I can think of
some housewives. I really want to see Candistill Abassad on
The Traders. I want to see some people that are
going to shake it up. I could think of I
mean so many people from Survivor I would love to see.
I would love to see Sandra Diaz Twine, I would

(45:41):
love to see Boston Rob. I would love to see
all the girls, like bring back all the greats and
put them in this atmosphere because I want to see
you in a non survivor world, have to prove that
you are good enough to inhabit an another persona to success.

Speaker 2 (46:02):
It's the sort of social aspect of survivor that we've
sort of been missing, right.

Speaker 1 (46:05):
It's exactly, and that's what I love about Traders and
because it does feel that niche. Yeah, yeah, I love that,
and I think we solved it. I think we solved it,
and I think just send us your problems. Send us
your problems. This is now become an advice podcast. And
speaking of advice, you can always heed warnings from our
last segment on this podcast, which is called I Don't

(46:27):
Think So Honey, because we're basically what we're saying here
is this thing, don't do it, this thing, don't be it,
this thing, don't engage. So this actually we're looking for
ways to shake it up while my sister is on
break and I actually, this is the first time I've
ever done this. I got tweeted someone saying I don't
think so honey, this thing and I was like, oh

(46:49):
my god, I'm gonna do this one. You're being prompted.
I'm being prompted. So this goes out to at rebar
back at r E B A r B A you e.
Your emoji on Twitter is like a bratstall and I
love that. And at ten fifty two am on July second,

(47:09):
twenty twenty three, you tweeted this to me, I don't
think so honey, blank, and I'm gonna do it right now.
This is the first time I've ever sourced, and I
don't think so honey. I saw this and I knew
I had to do it. It's not my own idea,
but I feel like it is. I feel like I'm
Kelly Clarkson covering a song with Kelly. OK, Like I'm
gonna make it my own. Wow. So here's my I
don't think so honey. My time starts now. I don't

(47:32):
think so honey. Rainbow Road in Mario Kart Oh, it
is the most boring level and it is what we
work up to. I'm sorry, but it is miles and
miles and miles literally of the same old Rainbow roads.
And I don't think so honey that it's a heighten note.
We've done well. When you go to the fucking Haunted Shack, Mama,
that's the gig. When you when you are in Bowser's Castle,

(47:53):
don't I don't think so, honey, being in Bowser's Castle,
and then the heighten on that. Ultimately, when you get
to the final Cup, it is it's gonna be thirty seconds.
I have left Rainbow Road. It is a miles and
miles and miles of bullshit. Also, the most frustrating thing
is when you fall off the Rainbow Road. It's like
you haven't It's like, why did you even do the
race to begin with. Meanwhile, we don't race in Mario

(48:16):
Kart to stay in the lines. We need to be
careening off sides. We need to be able to use
our items, we need to be able to be battling
with the girls. And I don't think so, honey, that
Rainbow Road allows us to do that with five seconds.
I'm gonna say, Rainbow Road, you're basic, You're boring, You're nothing.

Speaker 2 (48:30):
And I don't want to be culminated in you. I
don't think so, man, I don't want to be culminated.
I don't want to be culminated in you.

Speaker 1 (48:40):
That sounds actually horny.

Speaker 2 (48:41):
That sounds yeah. I think I think like a period
lesbian line.

Speaker 1 (48:45):
I want to be culminated in you.

Speaker 2 (48:46):
Yeah, well that sounds that I'm actually gonna try that
the next time I'm on one. When I'm out, I'm
gonna tell the guy that I'm gonna hook up with.
I want to be culminated in you. Yeah, and you
just have to trust that he's not gonna know what
you're talking.

Speaker 1 (48:58):
About, like basically, or that you're talking to like a killer. Yeah, exactly.
I want to be culminated by you. Like that means
go home and kill me.

Speaker 2 (49:04):
Yeah, Like like I want to be your final and
your last. I want to be the the rainbow road
of your kills. We climbex and culminate thoughts on rainbow road.
I think, No, I agree. I think thematically, it's pretty simple.
I think it is an exercise in rigidity. Yeah, you
know what I mean. I think you're right. I think
maybe Mario Kart has grown beyond it. I think maybe

(49:26):
it should be a sort of thing.

Speaker 1 (49:28):
It feels like it hasn't adapted.

Speaker 2 (49:29):
It feels like it should be a starting point, you
know what I mean, Like it should be the thing
that you sort of start with. So, yeah, I agree
with that. I'm also really bad at Mario Kart. So
the fact that you can just fall off. Yeah, were
you ever good? Like?

Speaker 1 (49:40):
Were you good when it was?

Speaker 2 (49:41):
No?

Speaker 1 (49:42):
No, it wasn't.

Speaker 2 (49:42):
It wasn't my girl. I was a Smash pros queen.
I Smash Brothers. That was when it was on GameCube. Yeah, yeah,
Smashros Melee is Yeah.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Smash Bros Melee was the height. And I'm going to
say this right now, there was a time tell me
when no one could beat me Smash Brothers Melee. When
I was Falco, no one could be Wow. I actually
think at my highest capability, I was unbeatable at the game.
That's what I'm saying. We're gonna test it right now. No,

(50:12):
oh my god, I would love bring Do you think that?
Do you think you could you smash meleed? I did?
Who did you play with? Kirby's Kirby Maine. See, here's
the thing about Kirby. Tell me it feels a little
basic at first, But then here's the thing. The thing
about basic is it's because it's good, exactly, And Kirby
has an unbeatable recovery when they've been knocked away exactly

(50:32):
that puff puff Puff puff puff all the way back.

Speaker 2 (50:34):
It's about like having the mobility, it's about having Yeah, yes,
a lot of options.

Speaker 1 (50:40):
Were you someone that when you played as Kirby you
utilize the B feature where they could suck up and
then uh use the power of the other person or
do you rely on other moves? I tended to rely
on other moves.

Speaker 2 (50:50):
I would usually use that like if I were if
you were playing like Lives and let's say I had
one more life than the other person, I would suicide it.

Speaker 1 (50:56):
So I'd suck you in and then I'd drop off.
Got it? You would sue it sided.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
Oh that's like an iconic wait, yeah that was That
would be like my finisher on that image of like
just death. Yeah, there's nothing on this like you do win. Yeah,
oh wow, that's amazing. I used to turn into a
rock a lot a lot, Yeah, a little rock, little
little ball.

Speaker 1 (51:18):
And I was, I was really I'm a big with
the A move. I'm I'm like doing hand to handcock.
Yeah yeah.

Speaker 2 (51:25):
But with Falco his up and B move, the is
that where he like zoomed, Yeah that thing unbeatable.

Speaker 1 (51:32):
That was really good. Yeah, I mean I have perfect
pitch for Super Smash Brothers and that's actually really cold.
Number eighteen I have Matt has perfect pitch for Super
Smash Brothers. Wow, can you give me the side peach
hip bump? Can you reference it? It's the yeah, all right,
and that how she started. I think it's that. Remember

(51:52):
this falcon falcon kick falcon kick? Oh wow, that was good,
thank you, thank you. I did play that fucking a
lot too. Yeah. He was also good.

Speaker 2 (52:01):
He just he he like he was so fast. Yeah,
he was so moved, those muscular little limbs.

Speaker 1 (52:06):
Really really good. God he was.

Speaker 2 (52:07):
I like hated him, but I also was horny culture
horny for him. Did you ever figure out what the
deal with Samus was?

Speaker 1 (52:15):
Like? That she was she was a woman.

Speaker 2 (52:16):
When I found out that Samich was a woman, I
was like, first of all, Sleigh, And I remember I
said first of all Sleigh and that was the first
to ever say it. Yeah, but that was really wild
and then but like almost too advanced.

Speaker 1 (52:28):
Also, remember Ness never.

Speaker 2 (52:30):
Could plays No, I couldn't either, And I just I
don't know he little ship head.

Speaker 1 (52:35):
I didn't.

Speaker 2 (52:36):
I hated his vibes, didn't like his vibes at all,
didn't know where he was from. God yeah, like his
little hometown. But also it's just give one thing, you know.

Speaker 1 (52:45):
Like edit edit, like he's a magic boy, right, it
looks the way he looks. Yeah, it's like it's like
where your hat normal? I don't know. Also, ice climbers,
I don't think so, honey.

Speaker 2 (52:56):
And also like I don't know why did they get
to be two and we all had to be one?

Speaker 1 (53:00):
That's the thing too, is just like and now I'm
confused because I'm like, uh, and then you could lose one,
and then you were just climber, and.

Speaker 2 (53:07):
Then you were just a singular like una culturista, like
una cultureista, like la culturista, and then I'm a drift.

Speaker 1 (53:14):
But one thing I'll say was I really liked the
Ice Climbers and the Rihanna Super Bowl performance. I thought
they were doing great work there. I thought they were
amazing and they're really good dancers. I didn't want to
play them in Super Smash, but I loved them as
there was Yeah, like there was a it was a
Smash Bros. Platform. It was literally sup. It was giving
Pokemon Stadium level of Super Smash Brothers. Rihanna, who was

(53:37):
very giving, very SAMs versus a million Ice Climbers. Okay,
but that's like I would play that. Yeah, like in
a world where they decided to stop fighting and also
just dance Supersmaths Steves will be really good, you know,
Oh my God, like Rihanna versus Gaga versus Katie Perry
versus Wait, this is unfortunately something I'm gonna think.

Speaker 2 (53:57):
Oh wait, I think this can happen, honestly, Like I
was just gonna say, I mean, think about what powers
one of them has.

Speaker 1 (54:07):
But I'm not gonna go there. Off Mike, I'm gonna okay,
great because I want to know. I'm gonna tell you. Okay,
So here's the deal. One thing I know we're gonna
hear on Mike is Zaye Phillips is. I don't think Sobney,
do you have something to say? I do?

Speaker 2 (54:21):
Wait, can im pee first? Yeah, I'm like, and this
is we're gonna sew to break go pe get your
head together.

Speaker 1 (54:39):
And we're back. And now that you've peede and you're
totally your bladder is empty. And yeah, I just know
because this is gonna upset some people. So shit, all right,
I'm not normal.

Speaker 2 (54:48):
I'm not normally like a hater, but for some reason,
this is the only thing that really spoke to me.

Speaker 1 (54:54):
Let's go all right, this is Zay Phillips' I don't
think so, honey. His time starts now.

Speaker 2 (54:58):
I don't think so honey soon. I don't believe in you.
I think you are too thin to be a meal.
That's right, Yeah, yeah, I think I want to eat
bread or cheese or meats, but instead you are a liquid.
You know, it's a liquid. Drinks, beverages. Maybe if you
were in a cup, we could talk, but no, I
have to eat you with the spoon. You know how

(55:20):
hard that is. I am always dribbling it down my face.

Speaker 1 (55:23):
My god. Right, have your spilled soup. It's like it
goes everywhere. Once you spill soup, it's done. When you
skill soup, you are done. Right.

Speaker 2 (55:31):
Think about the soups that are actually kind of good, right,
Tomato soup only good because you get a grilled cheese
with it. French onion soup because basically the same thing.
It's like a little grilled cheese on top. Chowders and
stews also okay. But the thing is, if you're just
gonna give me broth, no, mama, I could put actual
food in the sink and put some water in it,
and it's dish water.

Speaker 1 (55:52):
That's what soup. Second, I don't think so, honey, Oh
my god, that is one minute. I have to tell you,
as one soup's biggest fans, you came to the wrong place.

Speaker 2 (56:02):
I know, I know a nice A lot of people
would be mad. This is gonna shake the world. And
also Bowen isn't here to stick up for stew. But
the way you were like you're okay about stew was
also not okay. I just think when you're hungry, and
let's talk a two about the fact that it's a
seasonal food, right, I don't want it in the summer
unless oh you want.

Speaker 1 (56:22):
Hot insara soup last night cold soup.

Speaker 2 (56:24):
You want gaspacho. I don't believe in gaspacho. I don't
know it's watered down tomato sauce. Sorry, I'm still going
on one minute.

Speaker 1 (56:30):
Here's the thing. Like, and I also I'm shook by
you being like, okay, here are the good soups and
then you said tomato soup. You know that you could
get a really rich protein soup. I would raise you, like,
get a hearty chicken noodle, get a fucking good ass
Manhattan clam, big old chunks of clam.

Speaker 2 (56:47):
And all the good things about soup are the things
that are not the soup. It's the chicken's the things
that are. I just put it in a strainer and
I'm happy.

Speaker 1 (56:56):
But you're not a broth king.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
I don't like Why am I being forced to like slurp?
It feels extraneous?

Speaker 1 (57:02):
Okay, can I say something though, I'm gonna make it personal.
You're a big boy, you require a lot, so maybe
it's like you would have to eat a lot of
soup to feel full.

Speaker 2 (57:12):
That too, that too, and I and yeah, I think
I am maybe yeah, this is just really personal. I
guess I am in front of you. Yeah, No, you're right.

Speaker 1 (57:22):
I just think like, no, soup is gonna fill the
hole inside of you. And I've tried. I've tried to
pour soup into the hole. And can I say that's
a real culture number forty.

Speaker 2 (57:34):
No, soup is gonna fill the hole inside of you?

Speaker 1 (57:37):
No.

Speaker 2 (57:37):
Yeah, I mean that's also that's also a little bit it.
I just feel like soup culture was not meant for me.

Speaker 1 (57:42):
You know, I feel.

Speaker 2 (57:45):
Again a chowder A chowder is is Okay, I'll do
that because it really is just like creamed corn.

Speaker 1 (57:50):
You know. Wow, you know, I think I have a
special connection to soup. And this is going to go
back to childhood, and I'm going to reveal this. When
I was little, school lunches were really hard for me.
I had like a little bit of a food phobia.
It's weird, but I would only eat stuff that my
mom made. Whenever I went over to my friend's houses
and their mom's cooked, it was always a panic moment

(58:12):
for me. I would have like little panic attacks when
their dishes would smell weird, right, Just like I was
a very picky eater in a way that was like
problematic when I got to a certain point, Like I
wouldn't eat all day and then be sick when I
got home, Like it was really bad. Yeah. So the
way that I got comfortable eating at school because I
could not eat the hot lunches, I don't know what
this was. Maybe it was like an early anxiety thing

(58:33):
or whatever. I'm certain that's what it was. But when
I found that I could put soup in a thermis
and then eat it at school, I could have like hot,
really comforting warm soup in a thermis, then I started
eating at school lunch. And so maybe that's why I

(58:54):
have this affinity for soup to this day, and you
can catch me any day of the week enjoying soup.

Speaker 2 (59:00):
Yeah, I mean, I think what it's showing is that
like the only way to enjoy soup is to like
have soup addressed trauma.

Speaker 1 (59:07):
Yeah. Wow. Maybe I'm just I'm.

Speaker 2 (59:09):
Just I'm just throwing things out there, Like I think
this is why we're friends, because we can really challenge
each other. Exactly have you ever had chicken tortilla soup?
Your hot okay, chicken tortilla soup. Let's talk about how
you put the tortilla chips in the soup.

Speaker 1 (59:20):
So crazy to me that you love hot coffee and
then with soup you're like, no, Well, because that's the
thing I think you started. Here's here's the thing.

Speaker 2 (59:27):
Maybe if we started a full cultural revolution where we
called we like, put soups more in like a beverage arena,
because we already drink like bloody Mary's right, and that's
and that's essentially soup, you know, So maybe we started.

Speaker 1 (59:41):
I always say, a good bloody marry is a lunch exactly, yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2 (59:44):
So maybe so maybe if we started calling them more
like in the beverage sphere, you know the way, and
some people drink like bone broth, which.

Speaker 1 (59:52):
Yeah, that's like that's diet culture.

Speaker 2 (59:54):
Yeah, yeah, I mean that's I don't know, maybe soup
just feels like diet culture.

Speaker 1 (59:58):
Oh and that's why you're like mm hmmm, I don't know.
Maybe that's why I like it is because I feel
like I can have a full meal that is soup
and no one can say you didn't eat a full meal,
but you're not. I've also been eating really over the
past three days for some reason, like I've really fallen
off and like ordered some shitty things for myself late
at night because I'm not going out right now because
I'm like saving my voice for a reason I can't

(01:00:20):
reveal yet. But like so I'm just trying to be
good and I've been in my house and like when
I'm alone at home, I order the nastiest things for
myself because no one can see me. And I'm like
feeling like I need to get back to clean eating.
What's nasty for you? Last night I had a whole pizza. Okay,
that's not the nastiest. Also, like the summer and I'm like,
I'm eating a pizza.

Speaker 2 (01:00:41):
That was such a dark sentence. You know, well listen, well,
I think you know pizzas are so thin.

Speaker 1 (01:00:48):
Not this one. It was so good, it was so thick.
It was so much cheese.

Speaker 2 (01:00:52):
Listen though, get this. You know what I say, eat
the pizza. Yeah, I say, eat the pizza too. I say, like,
eat what you want. You know my obviously like, don't
let me dissuade you from eating soup.

Speaker 1 (01:01:06):
Oh I won't. Can I say something? You will never
dissuade me from eating soup? Wow? And next time, next
time we enjoyed each other for a meal, which happens
quite frequently, I'm gonna eat soup in front of you. Okay.
I just can't believe you're closed off to a food
you have such a palette.

Speaker 2 (01:01:21):
Let me tell you, I've eaten a lot of soup
in my life. It's just it's frustrating. It's so frustrating.

Speaker 1 (01:01:27):
So can be so frustrating, so can be so frustrating.
I'm just tired. I'm just tired of having to deal
with it.

Speaker 2 (01:01:34):
I'm tired of having it be like something that if
you go for someone's place and they're like, yeah, I
mad dinner, and it's soup and You're just like, but
what about food?

Speaker 1 (01:01:41):
You know what? Though to me it means they didn't
fuck it up because you can't fuck up soup. And
if you fucked up soup, then you fucked up. Then
you've done a lot. Yeah. Yeah, you just throw some
things in a broth. And also it's like, you know,
I'm a soup lover and I usually love soup. Wow.
So this episode ended up being a think. We talked
about the state of reality. We talked about queer camaraderie.

(01:02:05):
We talked about the challenging ways in which the new
ways we're seeing queerness depicting on can challenge even the
queerest among us, those who felt we had ourselves figured
out we was giving was giving NPR. I mean like
and I I I just want to say that I
don't think soup is terry gross. I think it's terry good.

(01:02:25):
And with that comedic jem I say, we do end
every episode with the song thank you so much for
being here. Oh my god, no, thank you for having me.
Truly what a what a delight? I mean a true reader,
true and that he actually reads books and things that
are not books.

Speaker 2 (01:02:42):
And whatever I can like oral podcasts, yes, or podcast,
don't if I do.

Speaker 3 (01:02:49):
Sometimes iron, Sometimes I hide. Sometimes I'm scared of you,
but all I really want is to you tied.

Speaker 1 (01:03:00):
I was bravely giving the Britney version. I know well
I I mean it was you and I'm just I'm
just support. Here's what you please, that'd be just a
fighting Here's the Moona version.

Speaker 3 (01:03:10):
Sometimes I run, Sometimes I hid, Sometimes I'm scared.

Speaker 1 (01:03:15):
You no bridge, but all I really want is too
old you tie. I love. They didn't No bridge, cheese,
You're right, see you in your day and night time. Wow,
the bassoon came out. I saw you period. Bye