"Max Out For Eliza!" (w/ Eliza Orlins)

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look mad oh, I see you? Why why and look
over there? How is that culture? Yes? Goodness, dot and
damn did we elect a new president or what? I
think we elected a new president? I have a feeling
we actually went and did that, so snaps for us.

(00:25):
We did that. We were the ones who organized in
Georgia and Detroit's and oh my god, the biggest I think,
so honey, to everyone in Georgia. I said that, I don't.
I think that was the most moving part of this
was everyone who stood in eleven hour lines to cast
their vote in Georgia, everyone who registered this time for

(00:46):
the for the first time ever, and Stacy Abrams and
everyone that's working with Stacy Abrams in Georgia. Truly, I mean,
they changed the whole voting landscape of this election, and
it is it's just it's so inspiring. It's so inspiring.
And let's just shout out the other women who were
helped register a hundred thousand new Georgia voters Helen Butler

(01:07):
and say you fought Deborah Scott and Tomika Atkins. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, Yes, bravo. Matt,
how are you feeling in the wake of all of this,
I have to say what a ride it was, because
I thought, I mean, it really was giving me. It
was giving me two thousand eighteen mid terms where it
looked just so bad for the first few hours, and

(01:28):
I was watching that election in New York. This time
it was like watching from l A. It's like you're
seeing all the all the sort of doom and gloom earlier,
and it looked it just didn't look good. And then oh, yeah,
in the daylight, that must be different to like get
the returns in when it was still light out. Oh
for Florida to be like pretty much like red red

(01:49):
at like six pm was really it was like, this
is happening so fast. It was so wild. But you know,
with the mail and vote coming in late that that
really turned exciting really fast. And of course obviously this
with the caveat of it didn't exactly go as well
as it should have gone in the House, in the
Senate obviously, I mean, and there's a lot to still

(02:12):
um engage in and still fight for um. First of
which is, of course, on January five, the runoff elections
in Georgia, um Warknock and us Off are still in
this and that would be literally, I mean administration making
for us to even out that's what's going down in
the Senate. And um, you know, as of today, we're

(02:34):
recording this on the ninth, This will be released on
the eleventh. But you know, still no major Republican in
the currently in the Senate or House has come out
and said that Biden won the election. It's still kind
of really dragging its feet. And um, Romney in the
Senate that we do we count him that Yeah, I
don't really count Romney. I remember one time he really
tried to he really tried to get on my side

(02:55):
when I was in high school by saying his favorite
television show was lost, and I was like, maybe maybe
he's the book and I like And then I was like, no,
I don't think I like a single one. Um, but
but um, yeah, I mean for me, my perspective on
it is like recount the votes. We'll go ahead like that.
It'll be the same like Biden as the president elect,

(03:16):
and we will starting now start that accountability process because
as we've been saying on this podcast, you know, from
when he was selected as the nominee, he was not
our nominee of choice and now comes the work of
making sure that we continue to hold him accountable and
making sure that they, you know, involved some progressive voices

(03:37):
in this, in this cabinet and in this administration, because
the rumored picks are not it. Meg Whitman, excuse me
your wounds after Quimby girl, okay, and speaking as a
Quimby girl myself on behalf of Matt as well, who
was also a Quimby girl, give it a rest for
just a second, serve in this damn cabinet, no get away.

(04:00):
I just feel like the failing up that is going
on with that woman is I almost iconic, cathartic. It
it's cathartic. So we for our for our new readers,
for our new listeners, we have now interchangeably. We've we
we've used the word cathartic to mean iconic when it
clearly does not mean that. But it's a it's an
interchangeable substitution, just to sort of you know, it's now

(04:20):
words mean nothing, um, but they do, just not on
this podcast anyway, speaking of meaning something, speaking of progressive voices,
speaking of progressive and speaking of big elections upcoming. Oh
my gosh, this is I mean of course, all eyes
are on the Georgia ran off on January five, But
after that, the probably the most important race coming up
in June is the race from Manhattan. D a our

(04:44):
guest today. I'm so excited. I know Bone is so
excited too, so so excited. She is a public defender
in New York City. And our guest is also memorable
for appearing on two seasons of Survivor, which this is
actually how I learned of our guests today, because, as
the readers know, Bowen and I did fall into a

(05:05):
Survivor wormhole because of quarantine, so all of a sudden,
I was very, very, very sort of infatuated with our
guests because I see a lot of myself and her,
which I'll tell her when when we bring her in.
But she came in fourth place on Survivor Vanuatu, which
is fucking pretty great, and made such a lasting impression

(05:25):
that she was invited back for what many would consider
to be the greatest season of Survivor of all time,
which was the all Star season Micronesia season sixteen, which
was one by friend of the show Parverty. Shallow also
competed on the Amazing Race with iconic survivor villain Curran
Kaplan just relentless survivor villain. I mean truly, her and
our guests both have delivered iconic, insane tribal council speeches

(05:50):
to the people on the up for the win. But
more importantly, she is now a candidate for Manhattan d
A and this race is coming up in June. And
after representing over three thousand New Yorkers who wouldn't otherwise
not be able to afford a lawyer, and just being
an advocate for years for low income people, brown and

(06:14):
black people in the City of New York who just
face an insane racist criminal justice system, which is, as
she says in her platform, doesn't need to be reformed,
but transformed. And we're just so excited this race is
coming up in June. She's running on a platform, like
I said, criminal justice reform, social justice for all, especially

(06:34):
those that are most vulnerable. And we're so so excited
to welcome to the pod. Open up your ears for
Eliza as welcome. What a welcome, what a welcome. It's
so great to be here. I am such a big
fan of the two of you, and this is just
what a joy you deserve. An intro like that, thank you. Wait,

(06:59):
okay a week very quickly, just touch on personal history
because I need to know more about you. I feel
like you have lived a truly cosmopolitan life born in
New York, but then you like lived in Hong Kong
with your family for years and years and years. A
couple of years also lived in Beijing. Also, you know
I have a Chinese sister, n n Ni Nally. Oh

(07:27):
my god, I can only describe my face right now,
as Eliza Orleans ask was dropped. Oh gosh, that is
truthful that you have your tones down, you know the tones.
Don't don't be bashful. This is incredible. Well, that's part
of the Chinese culture, right. You don't accept a compliment
under any circumstances. I know, like seventeen ways to say no, no, no, no,

(07:51):
like that is you say so the first time he said,
you know, my Chinese was good, and I said, which
means where where? Where? It's like, you're not supposed to
accept to compliment. And then the second day I was like, oh,
bug is like, don't flatter me. Don't you know all
these different ways to not accept a compliment because the
last thing you're supposed to do is just say like, oh,
thank you, Like there really are a million ways to deflect.

(08:12):
There really are. It's baked into the linguistic culture of
of Mandarin. It's so funny. Um, that's I've always thought
that was so cool. And UM, I don't know, I
just think you've you've really been. You've been about that
jet set life, your whole your whole life, and I
feel like that absolutely set you up for success on
Survivor in the Amazing Race. Anyway. I just wanted to
I just wanted to Amazing Race. We did not We
were not great. We should have been batter at Amazing Race.

(08:34):
But such as life, such as what was it that
had your family relocate to China? So my dad's worked
in China my whole life. Um, he's you know, I
mean he hasn't now been in a little while thanks
to COVID, but he you know, he's worked there since
before I was born. You know, speaks fluent Mandarin. Um.
He's the president of the National Committee on US China Relations,
so fostering the diplomatic relationship between the US and China,

(08:58):
and it's always been a huge part of my life.
When I was four, we went to Beijing adopted my
sister when she was just a few days old. Uh,
And so you know, China has just been a massive
part of my life. I literally before all of this,
Bowen and I talked so much about going because I
want to go so badly. The reason why I was
saying and I truly just did the Eliza face as

(09:21):
this was all happening. The reason I said I kind
of identified with you is because whenever I'm watching Survivor
and there's tribal councils happening, and like ship's going down
and people on the jury are just sort of stoic,
I'm like a girl, my I would be acting the
biggest fool. And so you sort of became an iconic meme,
really before memes for Survivor fans, for reacting to the

(09:47):
many blind sides that unfolded um mostly as a result
of the Black Widow Brigade, which was miss Amanda Surrey
and parv Um sort of getting all the guys out
there that were huge threats for the win. So I
was watching you reacted to this like and truly it
was so like active and just live. You were living

(10:12):
out loud. I mean, yes, there it is but I guess, like,
were you even trying to hold back because you didn't
want to like kind of disturb an outcome? Like what
have you always been? Uh, not able to help yourself?
Like me? It's like it's so funny. Yes, we're the same,
Like I wear my emotions on my face, like I
have to work extremely hard not to roll my eyes

(10:36):
at things or like drop my jaw at things when
I am surprised by them. And people who know me
in real life were like, oh, yeah, that's just her,
Like you should see her sitting on her couch watching
Survivor at home like oh my god, like screaming at
the TV. But when it's happening on Survivor and you're
sitting on the jury, you know you haven't seen all
the things that have led up to that tribal council.

(10:57):
So you at home and watching, and even even people
at home can be shocked, but you've just watched all
the strategizing, everything that's gone down in those three days.
As a juror, you're brought in completely blind, and so
you're watching it and you think you know what's happening
because you only left a few days earlier. You heard
from someone, but then it's like just shocks you out
of the blue, and I'm just a very expressive person. Yeah.

(11:19):
This first season you did was season nine, so this
was very early, very early on. So something we talked
to ParvE a lot about was what was it like,
as a huge fan of the show to then watch
your season and see yourself as an edited character? Because
Bone and I talk a lot about, you know, the
dissonance of seeing yourself being represented in a way that

(11:42):
is slightly off what your own personal truth is. But yeah,
I mean talk about that experience. Well, I mean I
think I got just a great deal of enjoyment out
of it. Some people hate watching themselves back, and for me,
it was like so exciting because there I was like
living out my dream. You know, I loved Survivor from

(12:03):
episode one of season one of the show. I watched
the first season of Survivor and I turned to my
mom and I was like, I'm going to be on
that show. And she was like, of course you are,
sweet heart. And now she says, be careful what you
tell your kids because they all believe you. And and
I you know, what's so funny, are you guys too

(12:24):
young to have had a o L instant messenger. Okay,
so I had so obviously aim was like a big
thing back then. And on my aim bio, I wrote
Future Survivor nine Contestant nine because that was gonna be
the first season I'd be eligible to apply for because
I would turn twenty one and that was the minimum age.

(12:44):
I turned twenty one a month before applications were due,
and I was like, i'll be twenty one, I'll be
on season nine. I calculated it's two per season. Da
da da, and I realized that season. So I was
manifesting before it was cool. I like had it in
my bio Future Survivor nine Contestant and then I was like,
oh my god, I'm actually interviewing. I better take it
off because they'll think that I'm like spoiling I'm like
in violation of my contract. But I had it up

(13:05):
there for years. That's the secret, yees. So then I
like went on the show, and so even watching it
back and just being like, oh my god, like I
got to do this thing that I had like set
my sights on for years like that. I loved that
I wanted to do so badly that even when I
got a terrible edit and got all this like what
they call negative SPV if you were ever an EDGIC

(13:28):
fan second person visibility, so meaning everyone was saying bad
things about me, right, Yeah, you kind of got that
reputation of like, oh, she talks too much, She's like
I do go, She's like, you know, over achieve verse.
I think the word annoying might have been thrown around,
which I gotta say that they say about me too. Um.

(13:50):
But you know, so watching that, was it bothering you
or you kind of just like, no, I get it.
I mostly found it funny, like I think, even and
my mom was there, like I won the family visit.
My mom was there and I was like and I
was cracking up with her, and you see like a
small clip of it, I'm like, Mom, everyone thinks I'm annoying.
And we were like laughing because you know, I'm like

(14:13):
allowed you from New York, like compared to all these
people who were like, oh, I mean at you once,
she was real nice. You were there with a lot
of like a lot of Southern characters. Yeah, especially towards
the end there it was you and Miss Twila and
Scout their names for Twila and scout y'all. Harperly could never.

(14:33):
Well she literally did name one of her characters, but
she could never. But she could never. It's actually a
really culture number thirty eight. Harper could never. So then
so then you get then you get the call to Micronesia,
and then you were on the favorite Tribe. Yes, and
how does it so? Then now you're there with like
all stars who you probably are a fan of. Oh yeah,

(14:53):
I'm there with like Seree and Aussie and you know,
Johnny freaking fair Play and all these these superstars. Penner.
It was. It was pretty intimidating. And I know, I
know my love and it. You know, I caught a
couple of unlucky breaks for sure, not that much. I

(15:15):
really think I could have done differently. But it was
still a great experience. I mean I got to be
on I got to have my stick line, I got
to be on the jury. Like it was still a
really fun stick line. What I mean, I think you
have a couple iconic lines because of course, and when
so you placed fourth in Vanuatsu. So not only are
you like on the show, but you do great and

(15:38):
it's it was just sort of a blind side of
you at the Top four because Chris, who ultimately won
this season, was sort of running the game at that
point and it just he just got you. And then
when you get up there for the Travelic Council, you
call them both deceptive, lying bitches, and to have your
reality TV moment and then you get to say you

(15:59):
are a dece active, lying bitch has to feel pretty good.
I mean, sitting at Ponderosa writing out my speech being
like and then I deliver it and I'm all, you know,
with my arms and Top was great too. I was
like one years old in my little tube Top. So
basically she goes, my question is not really a question,
it's a comment, and she says that the languages and

(16:20):
she goes, I want an apology phenomenal to come in
with a demand a question final tribal counseling. So great,
And so then you're on Micronesia and we can see
sort of you know, it's an incredible season of television.
I mean, even even if even for a non winner,

(16:42):
you have to admit and be proud of being a
part of that because it's like so so crazy. But
a friend of the show PARV and you like, there
was a little bit of like it felt like there
could only be one Highlander like on that season. Oh listen,
we had it. We both had it out for each
other from day one, and then I ultimately ended up
being the vote that gave her the million dollars like

(17:04):
poetic Yeah, yeah, I remember she talked about that too,
like um, in retrospect, looking back, it's like, oh, had
she heard even a little bit of how me and
I was being like, then maybe she wouldn't have voted
for me for the million. So interesting how things work out. Yeah,
Poverty is like the ultimate mean girl, but she makes
it look good on Survivor for sure. She's a phenomenal

(17:27):
Survivor player. Phenomenal. Yeah. I also and this is this
is just meant in total earnest, Like I love the
fact that she has transitioned from mean girl into like
yoga mom and like wonderful, wonderful, wonderful yoga mom. I
just I just love thinking about Survivor just being this
like frozen and Amber moment for people, and then like

(17:49):
they like move on to do amazing things like write
children's books about meditation or like in your case, you're
a public defender with legal aid society, and then now
you're running for Manhattan d A. It's like, oh, this
is a lovely like not many reality shows have this
sort of long term narrative that we can all follow
and track, and I feel like this is a very

(18:11):
I don't know, it's just very cool to see what
you're doing now. Um. And you send in interviews how
being on these shows has helped you deal with people
that you don't like, work with people you don't like,
and even just withstand some weird negative assault on your
character or aspersions that are being cast upon you. Definitely,

(18:34):
And I do think like there are so many people
in the Survivor alumni community who are just phenomenal humans
who are out there doing incredible things changing the world,
fighting against injustice, you know, who have really shown up
and supported me in my campaign and been there for
and like just really stepped up in like such major ways. Um.
And it's incredible to be connected with this group of humans.

(18:57):
That it's all because I went on this reality TV
show and I was trying you one years old, Like
that's wild, and it did prepare me in some ways,
because I think there are so many things that running
for office has also taught me. And I think that people,
you know, you're just like reality TV. You're really putting
yourself out there, and you're like, these are the things
that I'm going to say, these are the things I believe.

(19:18):
This is who I am authentically, and even if they
don't see all of you, like you're the things that
are put out or are the real things about you.
And so someone pulls like one little quote from something
and that's what and you have to deal with it.
And then you know, I think that you know, I've
been getting rape and death threats in my inboxes for
for you know, a decade and a half, so it's
nothing new. Um, it's so funny. I like put out

(19:41):
something recently, like some I just was unhappy one morning
or something, and I like screenshot at like three d
m s I'd gotten in the last like thirty minutes.
And it was just like a random Tuesday morning, and
I put the three of them up and I was like, oh,
this is, by the way, just in case you were
wondering what women, women, candidates, women go through in general
on social media, this is just what I've gotten this pint.
And people were like, oh my god, this is so terrible, Like, oh,

(20:02):
I can't believe this. This is awful that you're doing.
I'm so sorry, and I'm like, oh, like this is
just a random thirty minute period on a Thursday morning,
Like this is this is typical, Like this is hundreds
of times a week, and like, yeah, we like make
light of this stuff and like the horrible things that
happened when like I've been zoom bombed recently and called
terrible things and screamed at, and you know, it's like

(20:23):
you try and make light of it, you try and
tell the story. But also you have to be a
resilient person. You have to have a pretty thick skin,
um because otherwise when people tell you that they're gonna
come kill you or that you should kill yourself, like
maybe it would affect you, um in a in an
intense way. Oh yeah, oh my gosh. Well I mean
not to not to sort of like feigned disbelief women

(20:46):
candidates going through venes, women in general going through this
social media landscape. But I mean that is just it
really takes some kind of like psychic fortitude to like really,
I don't know, build up your walls high enough to
know that like this is not relevant, that the threats
are that most of the time, these threats are meant
to be taken seriously and are just meant to intimidate you,

(21:09):
scare you from, scare you from doing the great thing
that you're doing right. And I think that part of
being District Attorney is going to require like a pretty
like intense resilience and the ability to be fearless in
bringing prosecutions against those who are extremely powerful and well

(21:31):
connected against holding the police accountable. You know, there there
are people who will be out there who will seek
to intimidate me, who will seek to threaten me and
make it so that I don't act in a certain way.
And that's just you know, I'm not susceptible to any
of that. You know you bring up Um, obviously you're
running for d A and not only are you running

(21:53):
firm Manhattan d A, which would be a huge undertaking
as is. Let's talk a little bit about Cyrus Evans,
who's the current Manhattan d A. And I just want
all the readers to listen up to some of the
stuff that's gone down, Like as Cyrus Vance has held
that office for the past a little bit over a decade,
so this is this is just some stuff he declined

(22:15):
to prosecute Harvey Weinstein in he dropped a fraud case
against Ivanka and Don Jr. So I was just allowing
with the wealthy and connected to get away with what
they get what they do. He argued for leniency in
the case against Jeffrey Epstein, who we all know how
that ended up after he raped legions and legions of

(22:36):
thirteen fourteen year old girls. And um, you know, just
generally has allowed the wealthy and the connected and the
white to get away with murder. You know something that
really stuck out to me as I was researching this
in the last ten years. I don't know if you
know this poem, seventy people have been arrested in New
York City for possession of what's called a gravity knife. Um,

(22:59):
but Cyrus vans he'll just arrest seventy people because it's
illegal to have this, but refuses to take action against
the hardware stores that still sell this illegal product. And
as of two thousand nineteen, it's no longer illegal. Because
that was getting so fucking out of control, Cuomo finally
did something about it. But I mean, this is a

(23:21):
corrupt individual who currently holds the office of Manhattan d A.
And it's important to say flat out he is a Democrat,
and it's not this is not a Republican d A.
This is a corrupt establishment Democrat. Well, it's he's a
deeply entrenched incumbent who again, who has been in office

(23:41):
for ten ten years. He hasn't is it true? He
he hasn't officially announced that he will run for re election. Correct,
he hasn't yet said whether he's running for re election.
But he doesn't have to. And do you want to
know why? Just another way in which these systems are
built to maintain the status quo. Um, if you had
wanted to give to Joe Biden or another candidate in

(24:03):
the primary for president, you could donate a maximum of
twenty hundred dollars and what's the limit for local action,
like thirty something five thousand dollars are individual donor. So
you know, in the first filing period we raised three
thirty something thousand dollars from over thirty five hundred donations,

(24:24):
which is amazing. And I'm so proud of the grassroots
movement that we're building and like getting all these people
who are supporting who are giving a dollar two dollars,
five dollars, twenty dollars. It's amazing. But cive ants can
spend an afternoon, he can call ten of his friends
and say, hey, I need you to max out to
me and raise three d fifty dollars from ten people
in an afternoon. And this is how you know, this

(24:45):
is why it's only ever been these very powerful people,
powerful men, I should say, powerful white men, who have
held this office. It has only ever been held by
white men in the history of that office in the
last in my lifetime, in our lifetime, it's been two
white men. It's been Cyrus Fans for nearly twelve years,
and Robert Morgan thought his predecessor for thirty six years,

(25:07):
and four white men in the last century. Wow. Wow,
And you, I think, are are? Are you the only
public defender who's running for d A. And I've spent
my career going up against that office, like going up
against the pond S office, representing people who were charged
by that office, who couldn't afford to hire a lawyer,

(25:28):
who were, you know, charged with things as minor as
jumping a turnstyle, you know, minor possession of marijuana, taking
up two seats on the subway. Could you tell the
story because this is what strikes This is what just
really struck me. And you often referenced this the gentleman
with the groceries. Yeah, I would love to hear I've
so all the readers can hear about that for sure.

(25:49):
So um, I think it's I think I represented him
my first year as a public defender. For the purpose
of the story, I'll call him John for John Doe.
And John was an asistant manager at a Gristiis in
Lower Manhattan. He'd worked at the same Gristiis for twenty
five years, made his way up to assistant manager, and
one night he was closing up the store at about

(26:10):
eleven pm, he bought two bags of groceries with his
employee discount, locked up the store, and walked over to
the A train to head home to Upper Manhattan. And
he got on the subway not crowded, put his bags
on the seats next to him, and prepared for his
long ride home. At the street stop, two uniformed NYPD

(26:31):
officers got on the train, grabbed John's groceries, dumped them
on the ground, and placed him in handcuffs, and proceeded
to take him to jail for the night for the
crime of occupying multiple seats on a transit facility. That's unbelievable.
That and and he's how long was he taking up
two seats on the train? Spent the next train, so

(26:52):
then you were able to get him out the next day.
But I got him out of jail the next day.
But that's that doesn't Yeah, it doesn't change the fact
and traumatized. All his family's groceries were thrown out, you know,
he was he you know, didn't get to sleep at home,
maybe he missed work the next day. Like it's all
the things that happened to you from from being just arrested,

(27:12):
even spending a day in jail is just it's horrifying.
The amount of stories I've heard, just anecdotally, of people
jumping turnstiles, who get like slammed up against a fucking wall.
Like these are like women, I'm talking. I've heard stories
from like elderly women who have been like slammed up

(27:33):
against subway walls for like whatever fair evasion, I guess,
but they just kind of like found themselves having to
like do it. And that's not to like whatever, but
I mean it's just like it none of it ever
scales to the actual like like the victimless I mean,
there's a distinction made to be made here about a
victimless crime, right I mean? And then yes, exactly, But

(27:57):
the thing is jumping a turnstyle isn't is class a misdemeanor.
You face up to one year in jail for theft
of services, So it's non infraction, even though like we
think of it as being like you stole two dollars
and seventy five cents, Like it should be an infraction.
It should be a civil It should be something that
is never ever ever punished by criminalization, by incarceration, by

(28:18):
locking someone up in a cage like that. And also
not to mention the cost to taxpayers, it costs nine
and seventy five dollars to put someone on Riker's Island
for one night, so like you could put someone in
the nicest in New York City, like and it doesn't
call you know, It's like when you think about the
way in which we spend this money to to police,

(28:40):
to surveil, to prosecute, to incarceerate people, when we could
be investing that in in helping people, in investing in people,
in addressing the underlying issues they're facing. It's just like
we need to reimagine this, we need to think about
transforming this system. And so I would imagine that you
are in favor of defunding the police. Yes, we spend

(29:02):
six billion dollars on policing like these. This is there
is no there's no amount of like retraining that's going
to fix the problem. We need to reallocate those resources
into social services, into education and school and housing and
food and everything. Yes, yes, very much. So I'm curious
what your take is on the current um discussion that's

(29:25):
happening in the Democratic Party about why those house seats
were lost and why even why more house seats were lost.
We have are we're we're in danger of being lost.
We have these more moderate Democrats saying that the messages
of Green New Deal, of defund the police, these things
drove voters away. And then you have sort of AOC

(29:45):
coming with the receipts, which are here's everyone that supported
Medicare for all and they all got elected to or
they were they were all re elected and what this
message is not entirely factual. I would imagine that you
know you're off. I mean, I think that there are
I think that there there has to be recognition that
not all districts are the same, and that there are

(30:08):
people who, you know, we were in safe districts and
people who are in swing districts, and we need to
address things differently within those districts, etcetera, etcetera. But like
I really, yeah, I really obviously find myself much more
on the progressive wing of the party in that, you know,
I think that it really is important, especially in places
where people are receptive to the messages, to not be
afraid to call out the things that are happening, to

(30:29):
call out you know, systemic racism and injustice and these
these things that exist that continue to oppress and marginalize
members of our communities. And so I think that that
there really is no there's no world in which like
I would not be calling those things out. But I
think that, you know, we have to we have to
recognize that, um, not all districts are the same, and

(30:53):
that there are other things in play regarding how someone
lost a district more than just oh they didn't support
medicare for all. I think it's more nuanced and complicated
than that, of course, and it's so it's I I
always hate how you know that it gets funneled through
the media and then all we can see is the
argument and not the fact that like there really shouldn't
be a fucking argument, you know what I mean, Like
the we have we're dealing with white supremacy in in

(31:17):
our policing, like and it's it's it's that's how it's
that's how it was created. And you know, just in
terms of facts, you know, a mass incarceration is up
five percent over the past forty years, and the crime
rates are not higher. Correct, it's I mean, can you
speak a little bit to that, Like it's just that
should say at all? Well, I mean, we we continue

(31:39):
to incarce rate people for things like drugs. I mean,
I think like the war on drugs has been like
the biggest failure. It's not been a war on drugs,
It's been a war on people. And that's people of color,
l g B, t Q, i A, folks, you know,
people with disabilities. It has just served to marginalize and
oppress people. And I think, like what we can take

(32:00):
away from this most recent election, like one of the
most positive things, I mean, aside from evicting the current
occupant of the White House. Is that everywhere that drugs
were on the ballot, we won. Everywhere criminal justice reform
was on the ballot, we won. And people are finally
coming around to understanding that criminalizing human beings is not
the answer, and that we need to legalize marijuana, we

(32:23):
need to decriminalize all drugs. We need to favor you know,
rehabilitation and treatment over punishment. And because when we lock
people up, we're doing nothing to address a substance used
disorder that someone's facing, nothing to address mental health issues
that someone's facing, and maybe someone's self medicating with with
drugs or alcohol. But like that doesn't mean that locking

(32:43):
them up is going to solve any of that. And
so it was really heartening to see those measures pass
um you know, in Oregon and other places where where
that was on the ballot, because this is a really
big element on your platform, which is to divert um
any little level drug charge or offense to a treatment program.

(33:03):
I mean, that's like a big sort of item on
your on your platform, which I don't want to prosecute
low level drug offenses at all. I mean, we haven't
decriminalized um all drugs here in New York and hopefully
in the next session they're going to legalize marijuana. But
but I hope that one day legislatively they will fix
that in New York. But until they do, we need

(33:24):
to elect prosecutors like me who say it doesn't matter
whether or not this laws on the books. I get
to use my discretion as the elected district attorney, and
I will not prosecute drug possession anymore personal use possession.
We will not prosecute that because all we're doing is
either criminalizing a substance used disorder or criminalizing someone using

(33:44):
drugs for what, for their own enjoyment or something. I
mean like, but either way, when we talk about victimless crimes,
like we talk about things that all we are doing
is hurting people, hurting individuals, hurting their families. You know,
people people get so riled up and they talk about,
oh my god, Donald Trump has a family separation policy,
and he's separating families on our southern border, and yet

(34:07):
there's a family separation policy in your backyard. The district
attorney is acting in your name. They stand up in
court every day and say on the behalf of the
people of the state of New York, and they separate
families because the people who are getting locked up are
people's children. They're people's parents, there are people's spouses, Um,
there are people's siblings. And these are people who are

(34:29):
getting locked up for things like possessing drugs. And that's
why it's crucial to change the d A because if
the d A doesn't change, the d A is the
person that decides whether or not to prosecute these things.
So can anything really change in the city if we
don't change the d A, I mean flat out not
really right, No, it'll be extremely difficult. You know, like
having a district attorney who is like Saivance, who's really

(34:51):
like extremely punitive, extreme, you know, perpetuates this like lock
them up throwing the key mentality when it pertains to
the majority of people in this city, you know, low
income folks, black and brown folks, etcetera. It really just
it perpetuates mass incarceration. It um, it actually doesn't make
our city safer. Um when people say, oh, well, what

(35:13):
about like, oh, you're gonna be letting out people who
are criminals or something, you know that there's like this
this this US versus them mentality, and the the current
yer's office is really you know, use this language, this
dehumanizing language. Oh, people are criminals, spelons, inmates, bodies, prisoners.
All the language they use is so that people associate, Oh,

(35:34):
it's them, It's not me, it's them. But when I
tell stories like that of John and someone's like, oh
my god, Like I put my purse on the seat
next to me all the time, a crime I would
not have even known. You weren't supposed to do that.
Laying down on a park bench as a crime, you know,
it's literally called obstruction of a park bench. Um, you know,
putting something down on the sidewalk like immovable object, like

(35:56):
it's There are so many things that are that are
crimes in this city, but that they're only criminalized if
you are a person of color, if you are someone
who's low income, if you are someone who's experiencing homelessness.
You know. And so having a district attorney who thinks
about these people as people, as people who truly humanizes
every single person. And that all comes from my lived

(36:16):
experience of being a public defender and representing thousands of
people and hearing all of their stories and meeting their
families and sitting at their kitchen tables, and and seeing
what their families go through when they are locked up.
And and the reality is like, it doesn't make us
safer when we lock people up. You know, we're sold
this false choice, but it's not what's keeping us safe now.
Because another thing about this sort of criminalizing criminal language

(36:39):
that people use, where you're saying that it creates this
US versus the mentality, is that it also, on top
of that, I think, just compartmentalizes our understanding of the
actual criminal activity that's happening in our neighborhoods, which is
predatory land predatory landlords, um wage theft, over policing of
like neighborhood it's just in a blanket way exactly. That's

(37:02):
it's it's it's it's letting those things sort of live
very invisibly without people having this awareness of that thing
actually being criminal. Like the way that your landlord is
exploiting you is the actual criminal thing. That person is
the actual criminal who has maybe never been on rikers,
but is it owns your fucking building, right exactly. And

(37:25):
when you talk about wage theft, like if you think
about the fact that like I mean, I can't even
tell you how many people I've represented who have been
charged with theft crimes for going into a CBS and
stealing you know, a pint of ice cream or a
Snickers bar or something, you know, something that's truly worth
like four dollars nine cents or less, and they get prosecuted,

(37:46):
held in jail, sent to jail, you know, et cetera.
And then the person who's committing wage theft to the
tune of millions, maybe tens of millions, maybe hundreds of
millions of dollars, that person is not prosecuted. If any
reper questions even come to that person, they're usually just okay,
a fine, civil penalties, you know. And it's like the
same goes for for you know, people who are operating

(38:08):
construction sites where where their workers are in danger, where
their union laborers are in danger. Right, But how is
that a civil thing and not a criminal thing? Is Well,
for the most part, these things don't really get investigated.
But if there are sometimes investigations by the Attorney General's office,
like then they'll be civil penalties rather than um criminal
got it? Okay? I have another maybe wonky question. It

(38:30):
might not even be wanting, but I'm curious it seems
like Manhattan DA has this special relationship with the nip
D and maybe this is a civance thing, but like
like NYPD gets to prosecute certain criminal cases out of
their own legal sort of unit or bureau or whatever.
Is that is that true? I mean, can you can
you maybe break that down for someone like me who

(38:51):
doesn't really know how that so? Yes, So the NYPD,
I think recently, which we heard during the protests, moved
They're they're people who sit in the Manhattan DA's office
out when Van said he was going to dismiss some
of the protesters cases in in protests themselves, they moved out.
And it's like, what what the hell were they doing

(39:12):
there in the first place? Like having the police in
the d a's office and having this close relationship where
they're you know, giving money or they're supporting or their whatever, like,
it means that the d A is not independent, is
not able to bring the cases necessary to hold them accountable.
And so there's just misconduct is just rampant. It's rampant,

(39:36):
and it's and and the misconduct that I talked about,
it's not just um it's well, first of all, obviously,
it's what we see on these videos. It's the the
assaults and brutalization and harassment and terrorizing um and you know,
harming the members of our communities first of all. But
then it's there's more than that. There's the false arrests.
There is the um, the perjury. You know, their their

(40:00):
their police offic So they walk into the court, do
you swear to tell the truth, the whole truth, and
nothing but the truth? I do, And then that person
lies under oath, either in front of a judge, in
front of a jury, in front of a grand jury,
and there are zero repercussions, none, and oftentimes defense counsel
can't even find out about it. You know, their misconduct

(40:21):
is shielded by the d a's office, and so the
Manhattan DA has just been absolutely complicit in this, you know,
completely repetitive and awful misconduct by the NYPD. And so
you know, it's just past time that we that we
hold them accountable for these harms. And they know right
now that they're not gonna be held accountable, and so

(40:42):
they really just operate with impunity. And this is why,
this is really why I think it's important to let
people know that you're the only I feel like it's
to have a public defender be district attorney, would would
actually be the most impactful means of not just forming
but yeah, like, as you say, transforming that office in

(41:03):
a way that actually benefits everybody, not even self, you know, yeah,
for anyone moved right now while this is happening. If
you're if you're getting angry about the state of things,
you can go to Aliza Orleans dot com and make
a donation. I'm a proud donor. And um uh well,
I'll remind you again at the end of the episode.
But um, I wanted to ask um just specifically about

(41:25):
um all of this in relation to the pandemic, which
is ongoing. Even though we have some promising news about
potentially a vaccine that's out this week. We will see
our fingers are crossed. But I wanted to ask you
from your view, has the incarceration rates slowed or decreased
in any way as a response to the prison system

(41:48):
being a breeding ground for this virus or do you
still see a concerning rate with which this is all happening.
It is incredibly concerning. Actually we're being right now. I
think data was just released in the last couple of
days that we're seeing an increase in the number of
people at Rikers Island in the capacity there. And I

(42:12):
think that it is so dangerous to be holding people
in jails and prisons, especially during a pandemic. I mean,
what we saw is that the rates of infection in
our jails and prisons were more than ten times that
of New York City, even when New York City was
at its worst back in in March April. And I

(42:34):
mean it makes you know, if you think about it,
It's like people entering our jails in prisons are already
some of the most vulnerable in our society, and during incarceration,
that vulnerability is just exacerbated by tightly confined spaces, inadequate
access to medical care, unsanitary conditions. You know, no soap, um,
you know, no no toilet paper, thirty to forty people

(42:55):
sharing a toilet, mess halls where you're sitting shoulder to
shoulder with people eating off of dirty trays um. You know,
hand sanitizer is literally contraband when you are in jail,
there's certainly no ability to social distance. They were telling people, oh,
sleephead to foot instead of both heads facing the same
direction when the beds are eighteen inches apart. That is

(43:16):
not social distancing. You know, jails are incubators and there's
no way to keep disease from spreading. So this is
you know, and and said vance during the pandemic, instead
of decarcerating, instead of releasing as many people as he
possibly could, he was still actively sending people to Rikers Island,
actively asking for bail on people. You know, a fifty

(43:37):
three year old man died um who was incarcerated on
a technical parole violation, which for those who don't know,
means he missed a curfew or missed a meeting, or
had dirty urine for smoking marijuana. Like this is a
person who was sentenced to death because of this. And
so you know, this just means that that the d

(43:58):
a's policies have more of an imp act on this
than ever and and this is just completely urgent, as
COVID once again surges, Yeah, this this actually reminds me
of something else. That's because it's also part of your
platform to close Rikers and UM make sure that there's
no more new prisons UM developed built in the state

(44:19):
City New York statewide. Like that's that's part of what
you're doing. And I also was really struck by UM.
Currently in place in Manhattan is the conviction Integrity program
U s d A would establish a conviction review unit.
Can you talk about the difference between what you're proposing
UM in terms of UM what what exists currently? Definitely

(44:42):
and and the the current conviction integrity unit has no integrity.
I mean, it's window dressing. And it's just it's like
the idea that we should be not thinking about reviewing
cases where we know that officers our UM people who

(45:03):
have committed misconduct and yet their testimony served as the
soul basis for someone to end up incarcerated, serving decades
or serving life. Uh, you know, it's it's completely outrageous.
So I think that you know, we need to be
reviewing We need to not only be reviewing for for
innocence claims, but we also need to be reviewing sentences.

(45:23):
We need to be reviewing cases where someone's detained pre trial. UM.
We need to be thinking about those things. And especially
in terms of a wrongful conviction unit, you know, it
needs to be completely overhauled and it needs to be
fully staffed. There need to be people who are working
in conjunction with an Innocence Commission to screen cases to

(45:45):
make sure that we're avoiding future wrongful convictions. And you know,
I think all of doing all of those things will hopefully,
you know, restore public trust in in this system. Yeah. Absolutely.
And also I just all readers should should remember and
know that you know, choke holds have been illegal in

(46:05):
New York for decades, and that you know, we still
saw what happened to Eric Garner, and so these that's
what we talked about when we talk about misconduct, you
know what I mean, It's not just like someone not
doing their due diligence here and there. It's things that
result in the loss of human life. So that's um,
it's just important to say out loud. Um, I think

(46:25):
we should probably take a quick break, yes, and then
come back and ask the question, Oh, okay, we're back
with the Lives of Orleans. If you, like me, UM,
are very motivated by everything she's saying on this episode,
I would encourage you to donate lines of Orleans dot com.

(46:49):
I'm going to donate as soon as we get off
this zoom, and you better trust and believe I will.
I'm gonna maybe think about maxing out to the um
perhaps honestly, and just remember that Civans can call up
his damn friend and they're going to write a damn check,
So we should all be writing the same check. Max
out max out for Eliza title of up mat, I

(47:15):
think you should ask the question. Okay, so Eliza Um.
On every episode of Last Cultures, we ask a question
of our guests, and that question is what was the
culture that made you say culture was for you? So
this is that thing that happened that a young developmental
age could be in the pop culture, could be the
culture surrounding you that you look back and say, wow,

(47:37):
that made me. Eliza Orleans, well, I think we already
kind of covered it, but I swear it was summer
two thousand. It was the first ever season Survivors. Like
it made me me. I was like, oh, I'm gonna
go beyond that show, Like I'm gonna I'm going on
that show. Like I watched Richard Hatchet along with fifty

(47:57):
million other people made that million dollars, and I like,
watch that rat and Snake speech, you know, Sue Hawk,
And I was like, you you knew you were going
to get your Sue Hawk speech one day and damn well,
Like like where would you did you did you have
an awareness of like where this ambition was being placed before,
like pre Survivor, Like what were you Like, Like I

(48:18):
feel like once you once you see something like Survivor
and you're like, I'm gonna be on that show. I
feel like that implies that you had some sort of
like you're a goal oriented person. But then like what
were your goals before that? Well, so this is so funny.
This is a funny. It's a I guess it's a
thing that everybody does, like goal setting. Right. I was like,
I'm going to learn Mandarin. I like, you know, I
spoke when I was a kid, so like the tonal

(48:40):
stuff was kind of in the back of my head.
So I minored in Mandarin in college. I was like,
I'm going to run a marathon. I ran a marathon.
I was like, I'm gonna, you know, take my l
SATs and go to law school and and you know,
and I was like, oh, I'm gonna go on Survivor
and I'm gonna be a public defender and so like
these are just gold and now I'm like I'm gonna
be the next Manhattan DA. So you are I urg

(49:01):
around this and I know that the deck is so
it can feel so stacked, but I mean, I just
have so much belief that people, that real people can
figure out that this is something that would make a
huge difference. And you know, when people talk about caring
about local politics as much as we do national politics,
this is what we're talking about. This is what it is.

(49:21):
And if there can be anything positive taken from the
Trump administration, it's that I know, and I know so
many people that know that we will never feel complacent
again in our lifetimes. Because how could you I mean,
like you were saying, like in terms of how things
shook out with the legalization of drugs around the country,
I mean we did. We did have an amazing um

(49:44):
increasing of the squad in in the House, you know
what I mean. I'm so excited for Corey Bush and
you know everyone, Jamal Bowman, you know, I mean, it's
so many people that are going to you know, become
a part of that voice in the House. And yes,
we did, quoe unquote, lose some seats, but we what
we gained in the in that vocal minority in the

(50:06):
House right now, which is really speaking for us the
people so it really is. It's just so exciting. I'm
so excited for you. I really do. I'm excited too,
and like, I really know we can do this. I
know we can do this, and it's gonna be it's
gonna be a tough fight, but I know that we
can get a public defender to the Manhattan DA's office
and truly like bring this bold transformational change that the

(50:30):
whole rest of the country will look at and be like, wow,
we can do it too. We can do that. That's
how we can have justice. That's what equity and justice,
that's what it looks like. Yeah, and I think I
have I have thinking to myself. I was thinking to myself, like,
if only you had um sort of positively manifested winning
survivor and not just being on Survivor, may I nothing,

(50:55):
but you got damn clue. I saved it to the
Manhattan DA race my winning manifestation. I do want to ask,
and I always actually we talked a lot with part
of about Edge of Extinction, but and how what a
miserable physical experience that is and and so demoralizing and everything.

(51:16):
But for you on your first season, y'all experienced an earthquake,
crazy storms. What was the hardest thing about being on Survivor?
I mean, I've never been so hungry in my life.
It is like this. It is all consuming. I mean
to the point where every time you stand up, you

(51:39):
like go black behind your eyes because you're eating like
a couple of hundred calories a day. I lost like
more than a fifth of my body weight, Like I
was like down to bones, Like it was really bad. Um,
I was truly starving, and like my hair was falling
out in clumps like it was. It was rough. And
I guess my question is, so you get onto the

(52:00):
get on the beach, and you're probably like we spoke
on the phone a couple of months ago and you
described it as a shit eating grin that you were
wearing while and then then you go through that experience
what they do on some seasons of Okay, here's a
map and carry all your ship and find the camp.
How quickly does it set in? How quickly does it
go from I'm on my favorite show to funk, I'm

(52:21):
a human being in the on an island, you know
what I mean? Ten minutes, Like the first ten minutes,
I'm like, dude, did you we're on the show, and
then it's like, oh my god, it's getting dark. We
have to And then half the people are like, we
should just hunker down here for the night, and I'm like,
you know what, what do you nuts? Like, we're gonna
go find our camp like anyhow, It's just yeah, it's
a total it's a disaster. It's like immediate. And then

(52:43):
you forget the cameras are on. You're exhausted and paranoid
and starving and just just trying to survive, So you
do genuinely forget that the cameras are there. I mean,
it's not that you forget, it's just that you stopped caring. Yeah,
so you understand them to be part of the environment,
like a natural part of the environment, almost right, But

(53:05):
if you had wanted to present some polished version of
yourself when you are that depleted and starving and emotional
and you don't sleep and everyone's trying to vote you out,
like you can't even if you wanted to, Like, I mean,
I've gone thirty days without seeing my mom before um,
they told us that we were playing for a video

(53:26):
chat with our loved one. And then after I won
the challenge, Jeff was like, well, Leza, wouldn't it be
better if your mom were here? Susan come on out?
And I'm like, bad, oh my god, I always cry.
I always cry, like sobbing, like sobbing crying like my
mom's coming out. I mean, it was just it's just hysterical.

(53:48):
But you're so emotionally drained and just so starved for
like someone you love and trust, and it's it's yeah,
it's tough. Well then, because I feel like I can
barely follow the forty chest that's being played from home.
And I'm like, if I am physically drained, emotionally drained,
mentally drained, I don't have it in me to like

(54:09):
plot certain blind sides or like checking on my alliances.
I'm like that's the part of the the the entire
game of Survivor that like really confounds me. And I'm
so amazed by it that the people are able to
operate in this very like hyper aware way and like
be very nuanced and they're thinking, and I'm just like,
I can't even do that when I'm like fully fed,

(54:29):
fully sheltered. Any of that. Fields is a witch. She
has something going on in her brain that is she
should be president of the United States because because for me,
it's just like you're talking about all this stuff and
you're saying ten minutes and you're already like fuck. I mean,
well that's like days and weeks into the show and
she's able to engineer this thing that gets as out.

(54:52):
I mean, they all just so brilliant. She's so brilliant.
She's got a should be she should be like a hospital.
She should be like a hospital ad in or something like.
She she's a nurse, she's been a nurse for all
these years, and she's she's incredible, but she should she
has like the like the the experience to like lead
a whole fucking operation. I mean also like then it's

(55:17):
just it's just crazy to me, just like you you
watching it, I think we're this is so insane to say,
but she was all of us, Like I say, we
were going to bring back the expression Aliza is all
of us right now. Um, but like in watching it,
like it's so shocking, and then are you like well
fed when you're at Ponderosa, which is where you go,

(55:39):
so you you you're then you're just chilling and like party.
So wait, funny story. So in my first twenty four
hours after getting voted out, so I had lost twenty
pounds and and in the first twenty four hours after
I got voted out, I gained seven pounds. Are you kidding?

(55:59):
But like my finger were like sausages like like every
because like I hadn't had any salt or anything, so
like I had cankles, like everything was. I was like
retaining water. It was. I was a mess, and I
had a parasite. I was super sick for a very
long time. Yeah. See that's the whole other thing of
it all, is it like what is happening to your
your digestional system. Not to get crazy here, but every time,

(56:19):
like I was watching one of the seasons during my binge,
and I believe it was Caraman or something, and it
was they were all competing for cookies and milk, and
so they win and they're like shoving down these cookies
and milk, and someone on the other team just goes,
you don't want that. It's just diarrhea. You're competing. It's

(56:41):
insane that there and the coffee and all that stuff.
Of course, in the moment, I was like, oh, you're
not gonna do I like ever, like hold back and
not eat the thing or drink the coffee or do
and I'm like, no, you do, and then it just
makes you horribly ill, like you're not gonna not eat
or drink anything they give you. But of course it
makes you so sick because you won one of those
big um you want to challenge which and this is whenever,

(57:06):
like we were so um we were watching uh this
season China and it was like so frustrating when PG
was just she didn't win a single thing. And then
they all got to have this experience. Like I'm always
so bummed out when people don't get to have like
the cultural experience for whatever as they're going. And you

(57:27):
actually won the challenge in Vanuatu and you got to
have that experience. Could you talk a little bit about
like just getting to experience like that culture. It was
so incredible, Like we got included in this feast and
we met the children and we got to like spend
the night there and participate in their ceremonies and cooking
and everything, and like it was so incredible, like really

(57:51):
truly like a once in a lifetime opportunity. And so yeah,
it's really sad for the people who miss out on that,
not just for like a night of decent sleep or meal.
It's like the cultural experience is so so so important. Yeah,
I just remember my heart broke for her in that
moment when she was like, I'm being excluded from everything,
and you could tell that was that was the Great
Wall trip. That was the Great Wall trip pg PG

(58:13):
want the challenge where the where she did win the
cultural she did get she did when the Great Wall
thing happened. I was like, because I remember the first
episode because she was she was so touched to be
there because like it's it's you know, like it's her
culture and like you know, it meant so much to her.
And then when she didn't get to go to the
Great Wall, I was like, fuck everyone else. I was like,
I hate this, but you truly did win that experience

(58:36):
and I was gonna I get here from the digestion
of it all because you were like not holding back
on that food and I'm like, girl, I don't know,
like I get like the impulse control is that a zero?
Because you need to eat? But then I keep thinking
their stomachs are so so shrunk, like your body is
probably acting a fool. And I won the I won

(58:56):
the car. You won the car. She came with a
big dinner, which made us very sick. That was a
challenge to I know, I know that, and the loved
ones visit. Yeah, I know, my god, Eliza Orleans, everybody.

(59:20):
I don't know if I don't think so Honey is
related to it. But what are your broad impressions of
what's gone down in the last week, you know what
I mean? I want to hear from you, like where
where were you? What's your experience with all of this
before we get out and think so Honey, Oh my gosh, um,
it's like hard to even believe that it's real. Like
I think it's still sinking in for me that we

(59:43):
that we beat Trump. But I think, you know, election
night was tough, Like like you both were saying at
the beginning, this was this was hard and it was
not a referendum on Trump and the rest of the GOP,
which has been completely complicit with all of the horrors
that he's perpetrated over these last four years. So I

(01:00:03):
think that was pretty devastating to witness and to be like, wow,
seventy million people and even if we win, like seventy
million people in this country voted for him, like agree
with all of these horrible things that he's done. Um.
But then of course when it was announced, I met
up with people and we danced in the streets and
we cheered and we chanted USA, and it was like

(01:00:33):
we can be like proud to be American again. You know.
It's like it's like, let's let's take back the Americans,
let's take back patriotism, let's take that. You know. So
that's and then and then the next day I was like, so,
do we get to start protesting Joe Biden yet or
to because I I spoke with you right after he
announced comalass VP and I asked how you were feeling

(01:00:53):
and you were like not great, You're feeling great, yeah,
but honestly. But then of course I got down to
business and I was like, all right, now got win.
It all costs, Like we have to win this, um,
and we can push for the progressive policies that need
to happen, we can push to end things, but like
we had to get them. We had to get them
a win um. And it is historic. I mean when
I watched her speak, I cried, and you know I

(01:01:15):
cried watching him speak. I was like he wasn't even
in my top five. Like and I'm crying speaking, It's
like this just this emotional emotional build up over over
four years of really fighting back and resisting and pushing
for for change. So it's it's definitely historic. And I'm

(01:01:36):
I'm certainly you know, happy ish with the results and
and we'll keep But you know the problem is, I
think some people are like, Okay, cool, now what are
you guys all gonna do with all your mental space
and energy. I'm like, whoa, whoa. Work is not done.
It's just needs to work even harder, Like this is
the beginning exactly. And you know, like, like I said
at the top of the app um, these leaks about

(01:01:57):
what the what the cabinet choices might be, are not
it you guys, And I mean we need to be
really really um stride and vocal about that. I know
you referred to yourself proudly as a Warren Democrat. Do
you see any role for her and that administration? Or
you think she's good where she is in the Senate.
She should be in the administration. You know, she should
be wherever she wants. And if that's Treasury secretary, she

(01:02:18):
should be Treasury secretary. She would be incredible, incredible in
the administration. Have you met her? Yes, three times? That's
the cool. Have you seen the pictures of me from
the first time I met her? I was actually I
was kind of just asking. I didn't know you knew that.
So I was walking with a friend, actually the friend
that I was celebrating with on the streets on Saturday. Um.

(01:02:40):
We were walking from Union Square up UM. I think
we were walking up Park Avenue South, and I was
we were talking about Elizabeth Warren because I'm like, I
was like always talking about this is when she was
still running obviously, and I was and I was like,
I really truly believe. I think she's gonna be our
next president. Like she's so amazing. And I go, oh
my god, there she is. My friend goes what and
I go, there's Elizabeth Warren. And then I took off

(01:03:03):
and I ran across the street and she It was
the night of the CNN Climate town hall, so she
was just walking because that's what she does. She walks
like ten miles a day. She's like, you know, and
she's very recognizable in her card again and her Oh
my god. And I was like and She's standing there
and she's got a few people around, and I was like,
oh my god. I was like, can I say hi?
Can I? Is it okay if I say hied her?
And they were like, give us your phone. So they

(01:03:24):
just started snapping pictures of me, and I am doing
my Eliza things of being like like my my like
neck tendons or like bulgeit. I'm like freaking out. I'm
so excited. I'm like, I was just talking about you.
I love your criminal justice reform plan. Thank you for
mentioning public defenders. I mean, I'm just like gushing, like
embarrassing me. I was shaking, and I like, I've met

(01:03:48):
like legit celebrities. I've met like super Bowl winning athletes.
I have met like rock stars, like top number one
on the charts, top musicians, and I'm like, Hi, nice
to meet you on and like the only meltdown I've
ever had over anyone like that that was embarrassing Shan
Girling was Elizabeth worn I gotta say, We're being at

(01:04:09):
SNL on the last show before Lockdown. Everybody at that show,
including our very good friend, our best friend, Sudie Green,
who's worked at that show for six seasons, never get starstruck,
knows what the boundaries are. She was like, it was
the first time you've ever seen her nervous around someone.
She's like, I'm nervous. I was like, that's her hero,
and like I was so, so, so nervous to meet her.

(01:04:29):
And it was just such a seamless, natural, warm interaction
where she was like would you like a picture? Immediately
just was like would you like a picture? And we
were like yes, Um yeah, just like what if? What if? What? What?
What if? What a figure? I mean, like her and
Bernie just kind of really shifted my whole definite view
of what can be done, of what a candidate could be. Um,

(01:04:53):
that's that's amazing. That's amazing that you've gotten, that you've
gotten to meet her. You know, she's incredible. I mean
I idolized her. The party better too, because like the
Democratic Party, like sometimes it's annoying how big of attent
it is because you feel like you're screaming to be heard.
But it really was kind of inspiring to see there
was there was like a lot of exchange of very

(01:05:13):
different ideas all throughout our debate process and our primary process,
and I know a lot of people were frustrated with
the primary process. But I actually thought, you know, at
least all of these things are being spoken out loud
on a on a world stage. I mean, now they
are saying things like medicare for all. It's like part
of people's everyday language, you know what I mean, Like
defund the police is it has traction and like everyone everyone,

(01:05:35):
you know, if you're on the right side of things,
you're behind it. Like so these things, I mean, we've
shifted the overton window on a lot of a lot
of topics where you know, people were not talking about
these I mean even even on criminal justice issues, you know.
I mean Joe Biden is the first president elected in
our country who says categorically we should abolish the death penalty. Yeah,

(01:05:57):
it's a big deal, big deal, you know. He says
things like we should end cash bail, we should abolish
like it is. I mean, listen, is he as progressive
as as as any of us want? No? Probably not.
But like the fact that these things are being said,
and the fact that that there are people within our
party who just continue to push for those things, is

(01:06:18):
is a really big deal, really big deal, especially those
who were on the national stage, people like Elizabeth Warren
and Bernie Sanders and Julian Castro, like who really pushed
these things? Absolutely, And you know Biden's only saying these
things because they were pushed so hard by these individuals
or else else. You better, you better bet your bottom
dollar they would not being said. Um so, and you
know that's because the man's inclination is to float Meg

(01:06:40):
Whitman for the cat. So that's that's that's kind of
where there's a rub um. But anyway, Yeah, I just
wanted to want it to get And just before we
move on, what do you think about, um, the legal challenges?
Just as obviously someone in the legal profession, what do
you think about what he is doing? Is it just
sort of like he's within his rights to check that

(01:07:02):
the election was I guess, quote unquote fair. Um, do
you think there's any validity to to this? Like, what's
your feedback, um to all of us who's watching this
sort of happen as Trump disputes the result, Um that
these are completely baseless. He's gone over ten and he
will continue to be defeated in the courts because even

(01:07:22):
Republican judges are going to uphold the rule of law.
And this is an absolute ridiculous you know, grasping at
Straw's effort. Very sassy week for the judiciary, very much
that very that. Um. Okay, so um, I'm gonna have
to have a sassy week for the judiciary on that,

(01:07:42):
on that one. Okay. So now to move on to
I don't think so honey. Um. There's just so much too.
I think so honey, And I don't think so honey.
But I have narrowed down to something. It is not political, um,
but might be for some m hmm. Okay. Do you
think I'm really interested to see what this is? This
is Matt Rodgers, I don't think so, honey. As time

(01:08:04):
starts now, I don't think so honey. When you're things
are freezing in the frigerator, okay, I'm sorry, honey, but
the last I checked, thing's supposed to freeze and the freezer, mama.
And if I'm going to my refrigerator and I'm looking
at the settings and everything seems copasetic, why is my
lacroix frozen in the fridge? I don't think so, honey.

(01:08:25):
This is a bullshit, because I'll tell you what happens
when a liquid is frozen, Honey, it's much more difficult
to drink. And I if I'm going to the fridge
to pull out of something, a can of something, then
I better be able to drink it, because if I
wanted it to be frozen, it would be in the fridge.
It's like Nicki Minaj said, if I wanted to be

(01:08:45):
drinking the pickle juice, I'll drinking pickle juice right now.
But anyway, I have a very similar situation between my
fridge and my freezer. Someone, please reader with knowledge on
the situation. If you are an expert on fridges five
the way that allies is an expert on our legal system,
then please reach out to me and to make me

(01:09:05):
understand why this is happening, because until then I don't
think so, honey, And that's woman. Can I say something?
I am, You can say whatever you want. I'm experiencing
the same exact issue my the other stuff, my Blomberg fridge.
It's missing an oh. First of all, that's pathetic. B

(01:09:26):
L O M B E R G like hello at
an extra O. And then make me question whether or
not this is from a billionaire. But my fridge and
I'm and I'm like turning it up to like the
highest temperature setting, but it's still freezes my ship. I
don't know what crazy is going on. And then I have,
and then I'm an idiot. I'm like, because if you

(01:09:47):
can't get your fridge to keep your stuff cold, I
really hate when I pull out a can of Seltzer
and it's like not cold enough. I'm like, what that
is so New York. That is so New York fridge. No,
I'm experiencing it. It's these ship New York fridges and
these New York appliances that don't work. And that's another
reason why I say, go West, young man, binary friends,

(01:10:09):
come out West, come to Los Angeles. I used to
be you. I used to say, no, it's okay. I'll
deal with the cold winters and the fridges that are
that keep my beverages too warm and don't don't cool anything.
Now I'm over it. But then again, here I am
in a Los Angeles apartment in the the lacroix are frozen.
So I don't know what to say. But someone reach

(01:10:30):
out to Matt. If you're if you're an expert on
l A fridge operations, please someone. One of the cultures
is out there that knows fridge culture. It's so disappointing.
I tried to make myself a little drink before this,
because you know, the Lost cultures have been getting a
little loose on the episodes. Um, this is our first
episode with a guest in four episodes. Yes, and we're
so honored that. I'm um. Anyway, I'll continue to keep

(01:10:56):
the world updated on my fridge maladies. But in the meantime,
let's have Bowen Yang's. I don't think so, honey. What
do you say I have. I have a huge one.
I think. I think it's hot. Hot, it's going to
start a movement. Okay, I love whenever we preemptively declare
a movement will start because of I don't think so honey.
Because this happened a couple weeks ago when I said

(01:11:18):
I don't think so honey, and then it was the
people protesting outside of Disneyland that had to stop that.
Counter protests even it was really ridiculous, and I just
want to say they have not been successful. Disneyland is
still right fully closed to the city of Anaheim and
the County of Orange. Um. Okay, so this is Bowen Yang's.
I don't think so any and his time begins now.

(01:11:42):
I don't think so, honey, A five G get new
PR because no one knows what the hell your deal is.
You have people saying, oh my god, it's it's you know,
COVID happened because people are setting up five G towers,
or you have or you have me. I don't believe
those conspiracies. But I'm all over here, like, what the
hell is ultra wide band? I don't know. You're not

(01:12:04):
communicating effectively what you even are. I cannot align myself
with whether or not I like you five G if
I support you five because I don't know what the
hell you are. I thought I had five G LT
this whole damn time on my iPhone eleven Pro, and
then I upgrade to it to A twelve and it's
still and it's I still get the same L T
E A T and T is has not upgraded to

(01:12:24):
ultra wide band. But and yet I don't know what
ultra wide band is. I don't know five G as
an overall concept. Five G. You have to just present
yourself better. You have not had the debut Tom five
for us to know who you are you are not.
You have not introduced yourself rightly into high society and
that one minute. And I just want to say, when

(01:12:44):
you started going off about ultra wide, five G, etcetera,
you might as well have been speaking Mandarin as if
you were at the beginning of this episode. Because I
don't know what any of this is five G. I
don't know what. I'm pretty good at parsing out all
of this technical stuff I have, no I cannot really too.
I don't even know what the hell is going on
with this five G. Okay, now it's time for Alis

(01:13:07):
the Orleans. I don't think so. I'm like nervous. I've
been like thinking about this all day because I wanted
to be pop culture but like kind of like Clase
I related. You guys have no idea, like obsessed about it. Okay,
I think I nailed it. I think I got a
good one that is a really good overlap between my
my platforms and pop culture. Here we go, bo yango,

(01:13:33):
are you gonna count it down? Yes, this is a
Liz of Orleans. I don't think somebody her time starts now. Okay,
I don't think so, honey. Copaganda, heroical depictions of the police.
It is a widespread tactic by the police and the media.
And I don't think Sonny the air TVs and movies
that portray cops as heroes. They do performative displays of solidarity,

(01:13:55):
sometimes moments for tear gassing innocent protesters. I hate turning
on my TV and seeing these shows that are making
millions of dollars which glorifies and justifies and normalizes the
systemic violence and making heroes out of police and prosecutors.
As a public defender for my whole career, I know
that this is not the reality. And yet these shows

(01:14:16):
employ former police officers as their consultants and downplay the
presence of police violence against last people, and they normalize
police misconduct and violent crime is down, and yet most
Americans believe crime is going up because of this, and
it makes it harder for us to push the systemic change.
And as someone who is going to change these things,

(01:14:37):
I need them to stop this straight up capaganda. Yeah,
and that's one minute. That was one of the best
ones we've had in months. Oh my gosh, so right.
That is the definition of I don't think so, honey.
That is exactly right, and especially in the current sort
of way that we all consume media, which is just

(01:14:57):
like through like a little um recorded deo on social
media or something where it's like this woman crying, this
female cop crying because she wasn't served McDonald's properly or
something like remember remember that from like June. I was
just like wait a minute, like we're really just like
playing to like our I mean, but they think they're
being like very calculating in the way that they're trying

(01:15:20):
to like drum up sympathy in a way that is
like very transparent. And it was also like almost comical
because it's like I don't care that this cop wasn't
given McDonald's, Like they funk up my order all the time,
Like this is but it's like seeing these things where
they're like like even um, you know at Washington Square
Park when they had like the them linking arms of

(01:15:41):
the protesters or kneeling with the protesters, yet every other
day they pepper pepper spraying like batoning, you know, and
and like kettling crowds. Like it's like, you know, come on,
come on. It's like it's like it's like the cops
who took a knee in one picture, but then they
literally zoom in on the back and then they find

(01:16:02):
that cop like literally beating protesters with with with a
stick like the next day, it's like, you guys, this
is so transparent and honestly, just like I don't know,
I don't know what the right word is, craving. It's
just like so dumb to me that, like you think
that this is something that we all fall and some

(01:16:24):
people do. Unfortunately, they stunt during the day and then
they show up as themselves when the cameras aren't there
at night and when when they know when they know
it's not going to be as easy to be um
to manipulate everyone into thinking that they're like actually on
their side but just doing their job, like no, fuck you.
And it's also the way that they're portrayed in TV
and movies and how like the bad guy is always

(01:16:45):
the person who's accused of a crime and the good
guy is always like the police and the prosecutor. And
it kind of shows this like it's contemporary, you know,
pop culture really like displays that police officers are acting
in this way that they know what they're doing. They're
always extremely competent, they're always is like doing the right
thing and fighting on the side of justice and that's
not the reality. Thank you for thank you for bringing

(01:17:05):
up these consultants by because that's where that's the source
of it all. And I did hear that on some shows.
I won't say which, but like that that that that
I have friends that right for some of these shows,
and that there's going to be changes in the way
that they tell their stories and as as some of
them wrap up their series, that that they're going to
respond to the moment. We'll see how well. But um,

(01:17:27):
it's true, it's on. They're on every network and they
have been really since the since the you know, musty
TV days, you know what I mean, Like it was
we had NYPD Blue and all these shows, and it's
just become such a not for nothing but um, you know,
easy container to fill with narrative that they do it
because it's very easy to be cyclical with it in

(01:17:48):
terms of the storytelling, in terms of like the narrative,
because you have your built in characters, that you have
your heroes and your villains for whatever it's worth, and um,
it's it's it's it's crazy. And I've been really happy
over the past several months to see that discussed and
I'm certainly happy to see it. I don't think so
honeyed so expertly now, Thank you, thank you hot damn.

(01:18:11):
I have to say, I was like, I know, I've
got a lot of pressure on myself for that. I
was like, okay, I have to get you did it
and if if anything, if if anything else, that has
to earn at least a ten dollar donation from you
reader to Eliza Orleans dot com to help get Eliza

(01:18:31):
in office as the Manhattan d A and make our
city better. And I just want to say, as someone
who's living in Los Angeles and just saw Nitthia Rahman elected,
you can make your city better. You can, and let's
get talking about it and let's start making it happen
and start making the change because telling you like it
is real, it can happen. And you know the fact

(01:18:53):
that he's being so complacent right now and not even
campaigning or announcing a campaign. Let him be complacent. Let's
get let's build that ground support, let's get it happening exactly.
Thank you. Thank you. Max out for Eliza, as we say,
mats out for Eliza. It's not if you can't max
out with your wallet, max out with your enthusiasm, your support,

(01:19:15):
spread the message. I mean this, I mean the thing
that distinguishes you from any other Canada rights not even
right now, just overall, is that you are a public defender.
We imagine that the impact that has to get a
public defender in the District Attorney's office in Manhattan. Huge, huge, huge,
huge huge, Eliza, thank you so much for coming on.
It's been our honor. Oh my god, no, it was

(01:19:36):
so great to be here. Thank you for having me.
This is so much fun. We love it. Okay, so,
as you know readers, we do end every episode with
a song. Bowen Yang. What are you thinking? I think
you take the lead on this one. I can't think
of anything. Okay, here we go. God, it's sing the

(01:20:00):
song again, sat beside, make a choice, make a choice
through the niline line. And if you want to hear

(01:20:23):
that song sung, well go look up Celindion's version or something. Bye.
By

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Bowen Yang

Matt Rogers

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