"White, Fair and Blessed" (w/ Matt & Bowen)

There are a million people out there in the world. Two of them, Matt & Bowen, host this episode of Las Culturistas. Discussion topics include the RHOSLC trailer, the name "Bronwyn", learning to speak the languages of HBO's Industry, The Morning Show at the Emmys, how Jo Rowling is like Voldemort, and how sneezing feels better than cumming. Also, interrogating Heartstopper as millennial gay guys, Bowen's Interview magazine piece with Chappell Roan, the story of Matt & Bowen's worst fight, Addison Rae's Diet Pepsi, Delta Work's Diet Coke, and our very own hosts' dark fast food pasts. All this, Trump using AI Taylor, what "fanny" means in England, and the state of the Disney Villains. Take that wig off. You could never be me<3

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Look Mayer, Oh, I see you my owne bow and
look over there is that culture.

Speaker 2 (00:06):
Yes, loves cult ding dull Los Culturista's calling guys, Let's
get right into it because there's a lot to say
and a lot to cover this week.

Speaker 1 (00:19):
And we don't have a minute to spare. Shout out
to Brooke Ashley always, can I just say, did we
already go over this on the last episode? Watching the
two of you together is so thrilling. So Matt was
recently on Brooke Ashley's podcast and YouTube show well it
famously started as a YouTube channel. She's my favorite YouTube
chant Housewives Recover mine as well, and so, like I

(00:42):
think I told Bowen about her must be like a
few years ago. Now it's been like three years at
this point, because I remember, just I have never aligned
with someone more besides you on Housewives' opinions, and she
always had the right opinion on Potomac and then it
expanded to other franchises as well. Yeah, I just thinks
she's fabulous, But I'm so used to seeing her on

(01:03):
one like it's just her talking just sort of extemporaneously
to the camera, which is such a difficult skill. She's
so good at it, Like mm hmm, talking by yourself
to the camera for an excited period of time is
a challenge, but then seeing her share the space with you,
both of you together is so wonderful to watch she is.

(01:24):
She obviously loves you. You love her, I love her.
I mean, everyone treat yourself, even if you don't know
anything housewives. Just watch these two people talk to each other.
It's really, really, really lovely. I love her and we
had fun and I had been wanting to go on
her channel for such a long time. I will say
I'm sort of trying to back off, like doing any
other podcast right now, because I kind of became like

(01:44):
the face of Housewives' opinions there for a second, because
I just can't fucking out myself, like care if people
are like, Okay, I was gonna do my I don't
think so hanny about this. But like people's reaction to
you in that like online community when they don't agree
with you is so intense, And the number one thing
they always say is like, I don't even know who

(02:04):
this is? Who is this guy? Oh? Now we're done
with that guy? Can I say, like, who is this guy?
Is not really necessarily it doesn't work as a read.
It just kind of says like, okay, so that you
don't know what it says. I'm just like, no, I
don't have to prove who I am. You don't have
to prove who you are.

Speaker 3 (02:22):
I have stopped saying that out right. I've stopped being
like I don't know who that person is, as if
that's a worthwhile thing to vocalize say out loud, or
like as if that's supposed to elicit a response from
someone else, like I don't know a person, Oh right,
because there are a million billion people in the world,
you fucking lose her.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
Yeah, I don't know. Because there's a million people out there.
You can't know them all. There's a million anyways. So yeah,
I've taken a little bit of step back because people
were like, wow, he really goes hard for these on
his house side opinions, and I'm like, it's true. I
just gotta hold myself down sometimes I'm like, Matt, stop.
But I do think I helped move the needle. I do,
of course, sud Oh. I think public opinion is meaning

(03:05):
in the right direction thanks to people like you and Brooke. Also,
one last thing about the I don't know this person
thing the scurse God, I fucking hate it. That implies
that you are up to speed on the culture, and
it's nine impossible these days to like know everything about everything.
I don't know. It's just like whatever, even that's giving

(03:26):
too much credit. It's like you're not cool enough to
know what's going on. No, like period. It's just especially
someone like you who's fucking a reply guy, or someone
who's like, you know, I don't know someone who is
like so. I mean, look, we're we have the same
disease as you. We love the Real Housewives, but like,
you are not right in the head if you are

(03:47):
commenting on videos like this anyway. That's my opinion. My
thing is just like I genuinely, genuinely like it because
I like it sociologically, No, of course, like I love
to watch these shows and like see how they react
with each other, et cetera. I love it too. But
then I will say, you finally stumble upon something like
the Salt Lake trailer that dropped, and you're like, oh wait,

(04:09):
hold on, it has felt different because I'm out here
being like keep Jersey, keep Jersey the same, or like
just change a couple of things and then Salt Lake
comes and I'm like, you know what, this feels really good.
That actually wasn't feeling so good the Salt Lake trailer.
You guys, whoa, We're back. We are so back. Eight
Lisa's a dinner with eight Lisa Barlows. And then during it,

(04:32):
Lisa Barlow reaches over and tries to snatch Whitney Roses
Lisa Barlow wig off her head and says, take that
wig off. You could never be me. Come on on,
let's go, let's go. The Olympics are back, and they
are they are starting again on September. What is it eighteenth,

(04:53):
fifteenth fifteenth? It's so soon, September eighteen September eighteenth. The
Olympics are back, honey, Two guys, what is it? Seven women?
Broadwyn is back, y'all that the Nameame Bronwyn is going
to really make a huge splash. My co star in Wicked,
Bronwyn James, iconic British actress. I can't wait to meet

(05:16):
her and really connect the Shenshin to my Fanny, make
the Shenshun lego as well.

Speaker 3 (05:20):
That was my last I don't think so, honey, I
forgot that part. If there's gonna be a Fanny lego.
There are better be a Shenhun lego.

Speaker 1 (05:25):
Period do we establish hasn't really been established. I know
that maybe people might know that your name in Wicked
is Fanny, which is pussy in British lingo. I mean
everyone on set, all these wonderful Brits were like just
stifling laughter, Like okay, can we get a final check
on Fanny? Like if a guys, if some foppish sidekick

(05:48):
in a huge movie was named pussy in America on
an American set, that would be crazy. Oh man, you
see me out here standing, Oh wow, I can't believe it,
Like you're pussy, You're pussy Bronwin anyway, So yes, Bronwen
is back the name Bronwen. Now can I ask is

(06:09):
this some sort of Mormon name Bronwyn or is it
like some sort of what is it? It's Celtic, it's
Celtic Gaelic, It's something here, let's look at the origins.
I'm actually way ahead of you. So there's many ways
that you can spell the word Bronwen. Bronwen is a
feminine given name, well variant of the most feminine name
bron when branwhen literally meaning white raven or abstractly white breast.

(06:33):
Holy shit, I love a white breast. It means to
be white, fair and blessed. Oh my god, Branwen Bronwen
a well white, fair and blessed. I look, you're two
out of the three, girl, I am not fair. You're

(06:54):
white and blessed. Life. I'm like, I'm a lot like life.
I'm fair and blested. I'm two out of the three too.
You are fair and blessed.

Speaker 3 (07:01):
Oh no, I guess according to you, I'm allegedly white,
and so I think I'm three for three.

Speaker 1 (07:05):
Oh yeah, I almost forgot my conspiracy theory about you,
that you're parroting this image as a queer Asian man
for fame, success and more and more, and it's working.
We're all playing into it now. I've not done with
salt Lake yet. We got to keep talking about a
little bit more. What are your hopes and dreams for

(07:25):
season five? Oh my god, My hopes and dreams include
that Bronlin. Actually there's whoever. This new Bronalin is comes
in like defense against the Dark Arts, because not the
turf Book. Sorry, bitch, I'm not kidding. I'm getting goo going,
but I'm trying to say that the Salt Lake villain
of the Year needs to be like the Defense against

(07:46):
the Dark Arts teacher. Right, it's a revolving door. If
like I guess the Voldemort is jen Shaw, right, Oh
my god, that's a meaning these metaphors, but like sort
of looms over the whole franchise and like he's there.
And then she had her like little you know, death
eaters coming in like Monica, and you know there was
Jenny and God remember Jenny when Jesus she was horrible.

(08:09):
And now we're getting Bronwin. And I don't necessarily know
that she's going to be a villain, but I just
think it would be fun for Salt Lake to have
like this insane character come in every year, fuck shit up,
and our heroes make it through. Oh my god, Alex,
Heather Gay Harry, that's incredible. Makes the poster now in Heather,

(08:34):
I'm a what a moment. Oh wow. Except it's not
about getting invited to join a wizard school. It's about
being compelled to leave the Mormon Church, to leave the church.
And then Hagrid is Andy Cohen. This this is getting
and this is when we lost the threats Hagrid Andy. Anyway,
in a world where this is a one to one,

(08:58):
then I guess we'd still be talking about Harry Potter,
but we simply can't. Although I will say I feel
like we haven't said on the podcast, but wow, fuck her.
I think this is like a yearly thing. We've said
it a million times, just like not in light of
the recent shit. It gets worse year after year though.
Anytime I'm like, oh, I forgot about miss Joe Anne,
then she like does something fucking disgusting again, and you're like,

(09:22):
oh you God, I thought we were done with you.
She is awful rotted. Isn't it wild? How much like
Voldemort she became, Like if you really think about what
she created and like what she's become, She's become like
this like arbiter of negativity and hatred and transphobia, and

(09:42):
it's branching out into all these other things to the
point where it's just like a gathering storm online that
she's in the center of. And that to me is
like very close to what she.

Speaker 3 (09:52):
Wrote write that book. Yeah, well, it's like, no, I
think I've said this before. It's like this is someone
who wrote like a huge morality tale of fictionalized morality
tale and so of course she's going to like form
her own She's going to create out of nothing, like
all of these morals and fears and all these things

(10:14):
within her own fucking weird imagination, and then it's all imagined.

Speaker 1 (10:19):
It's all like fucking crazy.

Speaker 3 (10:23):
I hope I hope she gets sued out of her
fucking ass with this.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
Well I think she is right.

Speaker 3 (10:30):
Yeah, yeah, she and Elan are both named Innimantia Khaliff's lawsuit,
and so we'll see how far this goes and how
long this gets drawn out. But God peace and blessings
to gold medalists. I know, yeah, gold medalist the money
Khalif deserved, and I would say, I'm just I would
love to see them get taken for as much money
as possible, like because you know that they are made
of it, and even if they're taken for as much

(10:52):
as possible, it still won't make a dent. But the
fact is, like it needs to be public as fuck
that you can't just fucking do this.

Speaker 1 (11:00):
It's crazy. And by the way, you know who's max
disgusting now is like I've quin of course, but like
and we'll stop talking about these demons. But like Megan
Kelly like back on her like YouTube channel because this
is all these people can get after they get kicked
out of like media. And then you know, they point
to figure out how corporate media is evil, which whatever,

(11:20):
it's a longer discussion, but they end up on their
YouTube channels saying this shit like, yeah, why are men
competing against women? It's so disgusting. Hmmm. I mean we
really are flying around the map today, huh yeah, like
Alphabe and Oz, two White Fair and Blessed co stars
discuss pop culture on the latest episode of Lost Culturistas,

(11:44):
the podcast from iHeartMedia. So, speaking of White Fair and Blessed,
the cast of Salt Lake City, what was your poll?
I'm excited for Lisa's at a table I'm also excited
for Meredith versus Mary. What about you? I was gonna say,

(12:05):
Meredith versus Mary, You've been using me for the past
three years. It's just incredible. I personally don't believe that
bringing Mary Cosby into the tableau and to promote her
from friend of is the best move. She's I think
she's dangerous. I think she really is evil. So I

(12:27):
don't know about that. I am so excited for these
people to be back. I mean, we watched the Palm
Springs episode the other night with Jared, and we did
I think we willed this trailer into existence because we
watched it and the next morning we woke up and
it was like there was a teaser for the trailer
all day in the Housewives Vana. That's how you know

(12:47):
if there was a teaser for the if there was
a trailer for the trailer, or a teaser for the trailer. Yeah,
they definitely were gonna do that for Roney, but which
we love and I think you and I are both
on the same side of the Roney trailer looks great,
genuinely excited for the season. But that seems to be
a point of division and contention in the community. Yeah,
people are dragging the Rone trailer. I'm like, whatever, I
think it looks good. I think it looks fun. I

(13:08):
also know exactly what to expect from that, which is
gonna be like that show is still finding its footing.
I would say to anyone out there who doesn't listen
to Housewives and is still with us, I'm nearly fifteen
minutes in Salt Lake is a really easy and good
one to get on board with.

Speaker 3 (13:24):
And it's already kind of in the modern era of
house liives the best. Yeah, and also it's sure to write.
The first season's like thirteen episodes or something. The second
season is like peak TV. It's credible, and then the
third season kind of tapers, and then the fourth season
is really fucking good and ends in the most probably

(13:45):
the most satisfying conclusion. Yes, it starts at on a
high note and it ends on a higher note. And
we will keep saying it should have been nominated for
Best Instructured Reality Program for Outstanding Unstructured.

Speaker 1 (13:58):
Unstructured Reality Television Program like Open your Eyes. Emmy voters
that by the way, we have to the end of
the week to vote. If you're an Emmy voter, I
want to see you Bow and Yang checked off on
your bucks. We need to take these other nominees down.
Yang to take it. It's less about Bow winning, it's
about the other one now getting taken down. Take down.

(14:20):
Former guests of the podcast, Paul w Downs just kidding,
he deserves two in love. Paul, I just like had
been brushing up on the shows again, and for some reason,
I just like blew through hacks when it came out
and I was like, let me give this one more watch.
I loved the season so much. Season three, you mean
you blew through up because it was just like you
just had it on and I just had it on.

Speaker 3 (14:40):
I guess I wasn't like keat in as much as
I like should have been, Like the finale was like whoa,
Oh my god. And then I wanted to like watch
it back from the beginning because I feel like they
were planting things at the season and god, great show.

Speaker 1 (14:52):
It's a fucking amazing show.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
Just like I think it's gotten better season overseason. I've
loved every season, but like the first season, like my
only thought was like I wish this was just a
little bit more joke heavy, and I think like they
really struck that balance by season three, Like it's a genuinely,
amazingly on a joke level great show. And then it's
also like all like the dramatic things that are happening
in it are so rich and anyway, loved it.

Speaker 1 (15:14):
It's really great to watch, like something like they have
earned all of those really compelling dramatic moments, like at
the end of the season between Ava and Debra and
I would say that that is a really fascinating type
of relationship for me, Like, yeah, this sort of mentor
mentee thing. But it's also it's so loaded within that dynamic,

(15:35):
and there is a parental thing, but the reminder that
you should not invest in a parental sense in this
person in that way, it's like a little it's almost
like borderline abusive. Actually, I would argue that relationship is
kind of fully abusive, yeah, like psychologically, but it's fascinating
to watch, and you don't really see it done that

(15:57):
much and that well on television, especially because you feel
like not a lot of stuff gets to marinate for
that long. I mean, this is four seasons we've watched
of that relationship and it's still interesting. Yeah, and it's
still really compelling, and you get the sense that, like
it's just two amazing characters colliding, and that there is
so many smart ways in which they interact and it

(16:19):
doesn't ever feel basic or expected. Just one of those
things totally agree with you.

Speaker 3 (16:24):
And even the relationships outside of that central dynamic I
think are incredibly compelling. My favorite episode of the season
was deva Band's Christmas Spectacular, written by Pat Reagan and
it's where Jasmith Cameron comes for the Christmas dinner and
it's like they have it like she and Deborah have
a whole scene outside. I was just like Jasmith Cameron

(16:48):
d my only no for Succession needed more Jerry every
single season.

Speaker 1 (16:52):
Yeah. I guess she kind of had to take a
little bit of a backseat this last season, huh. I know,
but I was just like, I miss Jerry. I want
more Jerry. Miss success in general. I missed succession in general?
Are you kidding me? But you know what everyone is
kind of saying is the new succession industry? Yeah, so
are you an industry? Really? I need to start me too.
And here's the thing I tried the first season, and

(17:13):
I will just admit this, I don't know what the
fuck they're talking about kind of base level and the
way they talk is so British that I don't understand
it on again a deeper level, and so sometimes I'm
just like I need like not even subtitles, I need
like an explainer at the bottom. Yeah, it's a couple

(17:36):
different worlds, both like you know, professionally and culturally that
I'm just like, hold on a second, because did you
feel that way about Succession. Starting out like Succession, there
was like this barrier of like, like what are they
talking about? It's like, what the fuck is a bear hug?

Speaker 3 (17:51):
Like I like all this stuff, Like I had to
like eventually acclimate towards I understand what you're saying completely,
and I wonder if it's just some extra work, extra push.

Speaker 1 (18:00):
Honestly, with Succession, no, because I think it was so
it was like such a comedy and it was kind
of cartoonish that like, and I do mean that in
like the best way. I mean, those characters look at
them like they are. Those characters are so their comedy
games are so clear, and that ultimately is what makes
them dramatically compelling, because you put them in very dramatic situations,

(18:22):
very tragic situations, and so when they act a certain way,
it's like you, it's very mad men. I mean, it's
like the smallest thing elicits the biggest emotional response from you,
the viewer, because the characters are drawn so well, and
so when you know the stupid little ways they're going
to act because they just can't help themselves, and you
put them in very dramatic, tragic situations, it makes everything

(18:44):
all the more heartbreaking because you're kind of laughing. Yeah. Anyway,
So just to return to the industry of it all
and succession. I got succession because it was presented in
a way that gave me like a comedic way in
whereas industry like I just have to give it another
shot because it's everyone loves it. No. I yeah, of
course everyone loves it, but I kind of on this season. Yes,

(19:08):
oh my god, I think I think next episode Joel
is on. We just have to push past it. It's like,
so someone Lauren Mandel's father, Lord Mandel, who helps us
produce the Culture Awards every year, Miracle Worker, we got
done over her last night and she was we hadn't
seen her in a while, and she was saying how
her father went to the Culture Awards and he said,
and I think this is kind of maybe this is

(19:30):
helpful for you, Like he was, like, I felt like
I was in a foreign country. I did not know
what the hell was being set on stage or around me,
but I could not stop smiling and laughing. And I
think it's the It's maybe it's that same thing of
like this is a foreign language, and you will but
you will be swept up in the sort of the

(19:53):
ethos of it, you know, like it's that that is
what's being sold to you and I that's that's what
we love about television, right It's like, oh, we're in
an like we're in a world for a bit. I
will say the first season I watched, I believe it's
the first episode, there is a scene in Industry when
like it's these two gay guys and like one of
them just sort of rolls up to the other's apartment

(20:13):
and that you can tell they're like so fucking horny
for each other. And there is in this scene literally
just like they start making out, the one guy throws
the other guy on the couch, takes his pants off
and just literally enters the guy full tilt okay right away.

(20:35):
And I was like, this is a fantasy. Yeah, like
just took this cock immediately. And I was like, can
I say something, I fucking wish that's why they do
it in the UK. That's that's a British thing. No
way he is. Would you know you fucking wore no

(20:56):
you fanny. I know what you've been doing. You're shaking
your fanny all around the Soho area London. You're such
a horror. Bowen I Bowen yang hohrr. It's really cool
to number eight. You imagine bo and Yang horror. The
point is, well, we should get into industry. I guess

(21:17):
it'll fill some sub session shape hole. I mean we
talk about should we talk about how the Vultagati whole
piece about how like trying to get to the bottom
of why The Morning Show got so many Emmy nominations,
like everyone's such a hater, but I think, but like,
I think the reason that I'm taking away, the big
thing that I'm taking away is because it's the first

(21:39):
post succession year at the Emmys, right, it was not. Okay,
let's just say this. I think The Morning Show is great,
Like I think it is what it is. I think
it's an incredible soap, and I think it doesn't a
pad just for being a soap. I think it leans
all the way in and it's very good at that.
So the category that it should compete in is drama,
and it's a soapy drama. And I think if it's

(22:01):
good at being that and people are watching it and
it's delivering on the promise of the premise, if you
would then give it its Emmy nominations. I think it
doesn't pretend to not be a show where Reese Witherspoon
goes to space, right, And so I think people are
taking issue with it being rewarded, which I think is
not the thing, that's not the conversation to be here.

(22:21):
Can I say this is a huge stretch, but it's
a little misogynist to me, I think a little bit. Yeah,
to be like, oh, this thing that's like soapy and
delivers and you know, has us talking, you know what
I mean. I look forward to it a lot because
I watch it and I scream laughing and I'm dying
watching it, and I'm the biggest fan of it. I

(22:42):
know what, It's ridiculous. You hear me talk about the
third graders like literally on a ride to heaven and
hell at the same time writing this show. But the
thing is, like, it is really good at being that, yeah,
and that is a form of entertainment. So just because
you're not like crying real here is and racked with
like emotions after watching something in a real, like grounded

(23:06):
way does not mean that it's not worth its salt.
And I feel like to hold against it its tone
and its genre is a little misogynist to me if
we're really gonna argue about like what it is at the.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Base to write it off as like fluffy or pulpy, Yeah,
feel like I get like people looking at.

Speaker 1 (23:27):
It and being like, oh, everyone from the show is nominated. Yeah,
like it wasn't a particularly competitive television Emmy year, you
know what I mean. Like that's why I got in there.
Shut up, that's not literally not I'm sure I'm kidding,
but I will say, like, and I've on the record
about this. Anytime it feels like three or four shows
are nominated for everything, it doesn't mean those things were

(23:50):
that much better than everything else. It means the campaigns worked,
it means the money talked, and it means that probably
wasn't that competitive of a year. And also like those
things are probably quality, you know what I mean.

Speaker 3 (24:00):
And we're here to say that the Morning Show is quality.
Like I read I read this piece and I was like, oh,
but it's also just like it is like the biggest
drama on television right now besides like Showgun and whatever.

Speaker 1 (24:10):
Oh yeah, Showgun. I think Showgun is taking everything. Showgun
is taking everything. But we're saying but like just let it.
Let Morning Show, have have the w and also like
for the reasons that everyone is saying it's not gonna win,
like you know what I mean, like because people have
already like there's like this like weird kick up about
like and I think we do contribute to it, because
I get on here and I say, it's the most

(24:30):
insane show ever. Wettribute to it. We contribute to it
in the right way, and we have it a good
authority that the people at Apple TV love it. All
I know is that there's no notes from i'd. I
haven't heard anyone be like, wow, you guys are really
rough on that show. No, it's very clearly we if
it's show enough. Actually, you know what, I hope it wins,

(24:54):
scream you know. I've wanted an Emmy and Jennifer Amiston's
hands for that part for a very long time. Of course,
did you have Winter Friends? No, she did win for Friends.
She went when Oh yeah, she did win for Friends.
The Emmy winners from Friends are Jennifer Aniston and Lisa Kudro.
Never none of the guys, none of the guys ever
won an Emmy for Friends. Nominations came, but they did

(25:17):
not get the w I would say that the most
underrated person on that show is Coordinay definitely, Monica holds
the center. It's not Rachel, it's Monica. It's her house.
Four four I want them to know it was me. Yeah,

(25:42):
that was four. I it's always four. It's always four,
number five, it's sometimes five, it's always four. Is it
a good day when it's five? The coaching number nineteen?
When not sneezes it's times five is five, but it's
always always. Is it a good Is it lucky if
you get to five it a lucky day? Or at

(26:03):
that point? Oh? So this is bizarre, But my grandmother
and I share that when we get full, like when
we've eaten enough, we sneeze four times.

Speaker 3 (26:16):
I just started acupuncture, and I think this is something
that you can be addressed. Yes, well, can you say
if it's gonna address it by making me stop sneezing.
I don't want that because I love to sneeze more
than I love to come, and I love to come.

Speaker 1 (26:32):
And I love to come.

Speaker 3 (26:34):
What is coming if not sneezing from your dick, from
the bottom, from your deck, from your fanny, from your fanny?
What is shitting if not sneezing from your eyth that's
from one division.

Speaker 1 (26:56):
Wait, shall we discuss the Agatha trailers? Yes, sure, they
look pretty fun. They look pretty fun. I'm excited. Yes,
So she's a made it Patty Lapone little guy from
heart Stopper or whatever. Joe Locke, Joe Locke, that is
a show that you will never hear us talking about
because we are simply not in the right demo that

(27:16):
Heart Stopper. Yeah, I've tried so many times at that show,
and I'm just like, I'm not. I need to accept
that this is not made for me, and that's okay. Yeah,
it sounds like you're having strife about it. No, it's
not strife.

Speaker 3 (27:29):
It's just I think everyone, especially maybe people our age,
feel this like global sense of having to consume everything
because we're like, I don't know, maybe we feel like
we're right in the middle and we're a bridge between
generations and so therefore we should like look at both
sides or whatever.

Speaker 1 (27:46):
Like. But I think maybe I'm getting to.

Speaker 3 (27:49):
The age now as a thirty three year old man
where I'm like, oh, this high school drama d about
two gay guys or whatever, or try a bunch of
queer is like not for some reason, it's not for me,
and that's okay, But there was a time when it
was and I would have loved this if I was
half my age, but unfortunately I'm double that age.

Speaker 1 (28:10):
Part of me feels like, you know, that question of like, oh,
I wish that this were around when I was younger.
I think that's definitely true. Like I think had I
been in high school and I saw like love Simon,
I think I would have been like encouraged because I
would have been I would have seen my peers go
see that movie, et cetera. I'm really I Ever, when
that movie came out and like, you know, like all

(28:30):
the coolest people in America had things to say about
like why it was problematic and stuff, I'm like, it's
kind of missing the point because like it's hard stopper
at that time, like it's just not for you, it's
for like it's honestly frustraight people to literally be like, hey,
I'm an ally and supporting him. I'm Jennifer Gardner. I
can understand in a very basic way what's happening here.

(28:51):
This kid is stressed out because he feels like can't
be himself, et cetera. Whatever. It doesn't have to speak
for everyone. It's it was just like a little you know,
the door was a jar at that moment. But sometimes
I think, like going back to when I was that
age and I would just like watch like high school
musical and high school musical too, and it was just
like these these straight people. I remember like feeling like

(29:13):
there was like a I had like a melancholy while
I watched it the whole time, like a little gay kid. Yeah,
being like, oh, I'm so I love watching this, but
it's just not for me. And I don't know what
this sensation is, but I wouldn't replace that melancholy in
my life, Like I kind of it's a yeah, it's

(29:38):
not that I liked not having that representation, because that's
not true. But there's something about like me now where
I'm happy that I didn't have those types of things
that not happy, but like I can appreciate not having
them then because I know it's important now. Yeah, you
know what I mean. It's it's like the absence of
those things from when we we're younger, aids and like

(30:02):
helps the helps citation now, yeah, because you can point
to that moment as like oh, I want to be
able to right from this kind of pathos or whatever.
But also you're thinking, like I know how to cope
with this feeling from now on. And so it's like

(30:24):
it's the reason why we're having this conversation. Now we're like, oh,
that's not for us, or like we like we are
outside of the circle for this, and that's okay, Like
there's we're gonna we're gonna survive that we're not. There's
no like dire limbic brain evolutionary need for us to
be in the in that minx. Yeah, you know. Yeah,
it's funny, like I think back and sometimes I wonder like,

(30:46):
am I going to be part of a generation that
looks back and is resentful of the fact, that looks
down at the younger generation and is resentful about the
opportunities they have? And because I could sense that sometimes
from the generation up and yeah and those above us,
that there's like sometimes it's like when a new generation
has it easier based on whatever minority you occupy or

(31:07):
whatever it is that you're facing, there's the opportunity to
be a little resentful of that upcoming generation because it
upset that you didn't have that, And I guess, like
the way that I'm looking at things like this now
is I don't regret the piece of me that formed
emotionally when I felt like I didn't have those things,
And it makes me really happy for like the new

(31:29):
generation that has this representation and has these shows to
look forward to. Almost because of the fact that I
like the like almost grief I had about like not
having that or like that's what it ended up turning into,
I think has made me the type of person and
the type of artists and the type of creator I

(31:50):
am right now. So it's not a thing where I'm
looking back and being like I wish I had been
able to see two high school boys kiss on a
Ferris wheel, right, and it's like, I'm really happy that's
there now. I don't regret not having that because I
think it actually made me who I am to feel
like there was a missing thing in culture that was that,

(32:11):
And I'm not claiming to occupy the space where that
is represented now. What I'm saying is I like what
it did for me as a person ultimately to be
lacking that at the time, You're not disoriented in that
place if you feel that for now, because you will
feel that way throughout your whole life of being like,
oh I wish that was for me. Like am I

(32:34):
making sense? Well, it's like in high school, like when
you're upset the whole time because all your straight friends
have girlfriends and boyfriends and you don't you know what
I mean, I wouldn't want to go back and have
a maybe I would, or I guess what I'm saying
is it's like I don't regret the way that things
need turned out for some reason, this is making me
think about First of all, that is like such a

(32:56):
cogent thing that you're saying, thanks, just thinking about like
the way we might become an older generation that like
looks at a younger one and is resentful. Like it's
making me think about not that I'm bringing this up
and like she warning this in, but like this interview
magazine thing with Chaparone came out where she and I talked,
and then someone was talking to me about it and

(33:19):
saying like it was just so nice to see like
someone of like a differently queer microgeneration like reach out
and like give her like you know, talk to her
and give her a hug and not make it feel transaction.
I'm like, oh, were things and then and then.

Speaker 3 (33:31):
I was like yeah, because I guess I was like,
is this how like older gay men, like gay men
who were older than Gaga when she was first starting out,
Like is this how they felt towards her? Or I
thought were they a little too wrapped up in the
Madonna of it all? Like were they trying to like
be loyal to Madonna? And therefore, like maybe Gaga did
not feel that same sense of like although what am

(33:52):
I saying? Of course she did, but like maybe she
she and someone did not feel that same sense of
like communal protection around her the way that like like
I just can't imagine Gaga feeling resentful towards Chapel and
the way that like Madonna definitely was towards Gaga.

Speaker 1 (34:04):
Well, it's no longer cool to have that mentality. Yeah, yeah,
it's that. And also we are in a culture now
where it would be incredibly like a huge alarm bell
and red flag if Lady Gaga looked down at Chapelone
and was like fuck yeah in the way that. And
also we're not in a We're not necessarily or they're

(34:28):
maybe not feeling as much the need to give into
the thing the media does of pitting women against yeah,
other women and older women against younger women, whatever, women
against women in general. Like that's it. We've called that
out to such an extent right now that if Lady
Gaga were to be like Chapel roones like this and
this is not happening, but like whatever, copying me or

(34:48):
like you know in my image, et cetera, in the
way that Madonna would hint, right but which is not
again not happening, it would be received less than badly. Definitely,
it would go through the floor. And I also wanted
to say about that interview piece, like I was reading
it and I was like, Bowen was the perfect person
to do this, because you're both queer but occupy different

(35:10):
sub sects of what that means. But also, I think
the thing that's happening with Chapel and it almost feels
like weird to even comment on it in the wake
of having the knowledge about this, but this thing that
is happening with her, about the very sudden, very accelerated
rise to superstardom, I think that you actually can speak

(35:32):
to that, you like accelerated SNL in a very very
very fast way. I mean, you were featured cast member,
like who occupied like a space on that show pretty
immediately and were nominated for an Emmy, the first ever
to feature cast member to be nominated for an Emmy.
And also, like we talked about a few weeks ago,
like you serve a purpose on that show as like

(35:53):
a representative for it and a star of it. And
I think that happened like relatively quickly. So No, it
wasn't six weeks of like chapel releases like like good
Luck Babe, and then it's like all of a sudden whatever.
But I thought that what was so compelling about your
conversation was that you were giving her advice, maybe without
even thinking about that, but in sharing your experience and

(36:16):
in hearing her, it felt like these are two people
that lived a similar type of thing, and that's why
it's compelling to see them have this conversation, especially in
the wake of everything she's going through, which is her
discomfort with her level of notoriety. So quickly, Yeah, because
you were that was something that you experienced, yes, and

(36:36):
that was something I struggled with. It was a really
nice conversation. We obviously root for her. They did, and
I have to say again, edit out the part where
I said my best friend Matt on the car. I know,
but still I was like a rature of lust culture.
Should we tell the story of that night? What?

Speaker 3 (36:56):
No, No, we can't tell this of that night.

Speaker 1 (37:02):
I'm rereah. We were. I was depressed, Bowen was depressed.
We were in different I was in London. You were
in La. You were in London. I was in La.
I had just seen chapeerone and I had just seen
Chaperone at the Fonda, and I had been taking for
an emotional ride. I texted Bone, Oh my god, Chapelone

(37:23):
is the new girl. You have to get into her,
like I'm telling you, this is a four alarm thing.
Like she's the next Lady Gaga, I said her. I
text Bowen and Bowen ignored my text and posted a
picture of him and Ariano. Mattic me arian omatic. Also
it was like four am. I was in a car
on this on the way to Wicked, to the Wicked set.
I was so delirious from the travel and the SNL

(37:43):
week the week before, and like just so discombobulated in
a way, in a degree that was dissociative and I
had I had a full breakdown later on that summer,
and so Matt like I was just getting home from
like a bender, I would say on one because I
saw Chapel and like this is wow. You were so like,
I don't know, like Ryle drunk, drunk. I was wasted,

(38:07):
probably doing other things. And I remember I had been
so lit up from Chapel. I went out and who
and then whatever the fuck happened, I think I met
up with a couple friends and I came home and
I had texted my one and he was he had
not responded, but he did post a picture of him
in Ariano Maddox and I was just like, and I
remember I texted you. I was like, how come you
get posted a picture of Ariontomatics and you and you

(38:28):
can't even respond to my text about Chapel. Roan and
bowm was just like I am depressed, period. And I
was like, oh, I'm depressed too, and we just cut
and then and then I were screaming fight on History.
And then this phone call transferred from the car that
dropped me off at base camp on Wicked to my trailer.
The PA's were about to ask me for my breakfast order.

(38:50):
But before they could knock on my door, they absolutely
heard me scream at the top of my lungs. We
were screaming at each other. We were screaming at each other.
This was a this was it was really bad. This
was the still lag might depths of our friendship. Honestly,
this was a bad moment of the friendship. No, can

(39:11):
I say how many fights have we had like that
in our entire friendship? Free? Yeah? Four? But if you
know what we always do, let's say ninety percent of
the time it resolves in that same conversation of course,
Like would you say that that one did? Yes? It
literally did, because remember I started sobbing and I was like,

(39:32):
this is about other things. I was like, I'm so
sorry and I don't right and both of us were like,
sob come on. Yeah. I think we were all like,
what is what's happening? Like this is something like beyond
our control. But it was. It's so funny the origin
the the seed crystal of that the powder keg was

(39:53):
Chapel Road. It literally was atomatics and Ari automatics. It's
these two women talk about a fucking time capsule. It
was like it was the night I just I really
discovered Chapel Roon and I went to Bowen and I
was just like, you know what it was. I was
so positive you would love her, of course, and the
only concern I had was that you do that. And also,

(40:14):
I'll just say vulnerable thing for me, I am very
sensitive to when I send a text. I'm gonna say,
I will say someone, but I will say you a text,
and then like there's response on group chats or like
you posting elsewhere. It just it it drives me crazy
because I feel like I'm being ignored and then I

(40:35):
think you're mad at me, and I'm very sensitive to that.
And so that's what it was. And also me being
that drunk, but you were and you were going through
so much, and I just we were both going through it.
We both were, but I in that moment, you know,
Achilles Heel, I think I just got in my feelings
and made it a little about something about me and
about something else, and I immediately broke the fuck down

(40:59):
because I really what I was doing. And I think
it's like one of those times when it's like when
you get so upset or you get so angry and
you get so hurt and you realize it's like you're
aware of the fact that like, oh, I'm not doing well.
It's not about this, I'm just not doing well. It's
such a bad feeling when that kind of realization sets
in and you're like, oh, fuck, I am not okay.

(41:21):
And I was out of a way out of pocket,
way out of pocket.

Speaker 3 (41:25):
Well, there were just substances involved on your end, and
there was sleep deprivation involved on my end. Like, yeah,
it was not a worst mix.

Speaker 1 (41:31):
Yeah, I would say the versions of us that are
not great collided. Oh God, anyway, but that is that
is the first time I said to bow in Chapel
roone and that, yeah, I showed you a horse that
I know you're gonna love. I'm like, actly, I'm throwing
my head back. Yeah, And it probably did last like

(41:53):
what fifteen sixteen minutes. But when I tell you sometimes,
like maybe it's like four or five times in my
life I have heard this sound come out of my body,
which is like I've never heard Baar scream, to the
point where I was like, oh, like I am I
screwed back at you kind of in the same timber
you did. You did.

Speaker 3 (42:13):
It did not feel good. I'm a screamer. I when
I scream, I fucking scream.

Speaker 1 (42:18):
I'm telling you, like I've gotten into arguments with you
like this, Like again once enough the Bluest Moon, Sudie
and Night years ago got into it on this It
always happens on the street really late at night, and
we got into it on the street in front of
our parsel a moment in such an insane, like rabid way.
I would say, this is very healthy. No one needs

(42:39):
to be alarmed, Like this is just something that like friends,
friends do, like it's it's blood letting. It's like emotional
blood letting. And this is just depending on the friendship.
This this is helpful keep going well. I mean literally,
it only happens with people that you really care about,
because I think the only other person that I've gotten
like that with is my father, Like in high school,
that sort of disconnect between father and son, Like was

(42:59):
the last time I can remember being a that upset.
But it was it was again about a million about
well not a million other things, about one big other thing, sure.

Speaker 3 (43:09):
But then a million other things in its orbit within that. Yes, yeah, wow,
that's the birth story of chapelone.

Speaker 1 (43:15):
I think I was also incredibly jealous that you had
a picture with Ariano. At the time, I was like, oh,
so you can post a picture with Arionomatics it cancer Sandrasano.
My text, I was like, I want a picture with Orionomatics,
and then I just I went off the deep end.
We're such gay guys.

Speaker 4 (43:33):
Oh ultimately, yeah, ultimately yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:45):
Wait, speaking of Gaga, we just kind of brush. We
need to talk about Die with a Smile. I love
Die with a Smile. It is my new favorite music
is a bad music? Is so you say? Now? In
August twenty music has been really ripping and hello this weekend? Okay,

(44:08):
what's going on there? Is? There's so much Lisa has
a new song with Rosilia. Oh yeah, Flow has a
new EP, has a new single from their Epea shows,
the new Tanasha EP Quantum maybe incredible note book boys
across that line.

Speaker 3 (44:23):
I'm obsessed with Yeah, Tanash is it. We haven't talked
about Addison Ray. We haven't talked about Die Pepsi Forever
by Charlie Bliss. Amazing new album by Charlie Bliss. If
you don't know them, wonderful pop pump band. They're going
on tour soon. And just I don't know, I'm just
like excited. Oh my god, there's a new girl, Zolita.
Everyone should listen to. You are gonna fucking love this

(44:47):
low lady with the z Queen of Hearts.

Speaker 1 (44:49):
It's like it's an EP album eight track, so it's
like in that right in that middle zone, that liminal space.
But she's got like dance pop, some country pops moments.
You are gonna fucking love her all over again. All
Girls go to Heaven, small town scandal, what if I mean?
So good?

Speaker 3 (45:05):
Okay, anyway, that's my every episode in the year twenty
twenty four of Louts culture is going to be about music, period.
Buckle up, strap yourself in wait.

Speaker 1 (45:12):
I haven't even sat on the pod yet, but the
song Katie Gavin Katie I Love After Serious and it
hit me hard of when I finally listened to it
because I get it, and like I texted Katie and
I was like, I think that we share a heart
and a brain because she just always says the thing.

(45:35):
I mean, whether it's with Muna and now her solo stuff,
like obviously I'm the biggest Moonistan, but like I'm just
so excited for her new music. I'm so excited for it.
I mean, I've said time and time again, I think
that she as a vocalist and a writer, like is
one of our generation's greats. To use the word generation

(45:56):
for the millionth time today, just like how there's a
million people out there in the world. But I love her.
I love her, I love her.

Speaker 3 (46:05):
She's in casual drug use the new song from the album.
But she, I mean, she was so generous with us
after Culture Award. She sent us the full album. The
full album is incredible.

Speaker 1 (46:16):
It's just people are gonna I mean, it's not even
like people, how could you ever be surprised? Like she's brilliant,
Like they're so great and okay to just to speak
about the Addison ray of it all. So I had
a tug of war in my mind. I had a
war in my mim mind, as Lana would say. But

(46:36):
I'm so happy I just decided to ride and really
have into this song because wow, it's so much fun
and it's so great. The production of her music is
sometimes like, well, I guess it has it kind of
has to be like but it's ten No, I don't
think she doesn't know the first one of the number
one things I like about Addison Ray in this recording
artist era is how self aware of the fact, yeah

(47:00):
she is that, like, yeah, she's Addison Ray. She's doing
this thing. She had a very clear reference here, and
it's Lama Deel Ray and she's ahead of it and
really aware of it. And I think that's what makes
the song and the music video so strong, is the
fact that it gets to like riff on Lana actively
because it's aware at the front, and it's all complimentary

(47:22):
and revel and like is in reverence, and the song's
also fucking fun.

Speaker 3 (47:28):
What do you make of the song originally being called
back Seat but then miss Charlie XCX goes change it
to die Pepsi.

Speaker 1 (47:37):
Yeah, I think that's exactly right. I think Charlie XCX knows.
I think it's actually really coaching number thirty. Charlie xxx
knows she was exactly right. I think dietpepsi is so
much like more to use my best friend's word, serrated. Oh,
I think it pops more than vaccine. Diet pepsi makes you.
I mean, you're never gonna forget that it's dietpepsi because

(47:58):
it's so it's like fringe. Diet pepsi is fucking fringe. Well,
diepepsi is like fringe. Culture is eternal, is an eternal
thing in the culture that has always been there, will
always be there. And it's one of those things that
makes you go oh yeah. And then for this girl
to write a song about it that is not really
about diet pepsi in the end, not at all, is

(48:19):
kind of incredible. But we're such diet coke girlies, speaking
of which it's so good. We need to pay respects
as the internet in the world already has to Delta
work to forget it.

Speaker 3 (48:32):
To the diet Coke. I've watched it five times. It
is the pinnacle. Is a moment in culture.

Speaker 1 (48:38):
It is a moment in culture. We might have to
have a new list because Delta Works Diet Coke Challenge
is a moment in culture. Watch it if you haven't,
if you have watched it again, it is. It's the
most impressive thing. It is us scream.

Speaker 3 (48:54):
I remember watching it the first time and going, oh
my god, that's amazing. And I think, for some reason,
I thought that she was told what the five sources
of die coke were to begin with, and she she
was well, she was, but she wasn't because at one point,
when she's drinking the Burger King diet coke, she goes, ooh,

(49:14):
maybe this is from Panera. So I think I think
she she went in knowing that they got her die
cokes from places that she frequents, that it was more
than five. And so therefore the extra layer of challenge
in this is that it wasn't just like a oh,
let me just like do a one to one sort
of like from the five that I know in my head.
It was like from all the places that and this

(49:35):
is someone who goes and is a fast food afficionado, connoisseur,
Connasu's like knows like there's there's a big range of
sources of diet coke for her, and she for her
to willow down to those five incredible.

Speaker 1 (49:51):
Can I tell you the only place? So here's a reveal.
I don't know how much of a reveal it is,
but I used to eat fast food in my twenties.
I'm gonna say fat it at least three four times
a week. At least it was like that it was
God like the metabolism was doing all the work because

(50:13):
the forces of evil aka my brain were at play,
and my instinct was to eat this all the time.
So and it's to the point and I don't know
how you feel about this outside of del taco, which
I don't frequent. I could have done that. I could
have done the diet coke challenge and every so she's
walking through why she knows that these cokes are certain.

(50:35):
Her palate is so refined. I think I could have
been right there with her, because every single thing she said,
I was like, Yes, McDonald's soda machines are a little
bit more carbonated. Yes, the burger. There is a lack
of pride in the presentation when it comes to the soda.
It is always a little flat, and there's a little
bit too much sweetness in it, like a little bit
too much, like of syrup. It's like a little too much.

(51:00):
In terms of bottles and cans, there is a huge
difference to the point where you're like, why the fuck
are we drinking out of plastic bottles at all? We
could taste the difference. The only difference is the fact
that there's plastic in the shit that you're drinking. So
do not drink out of a plastic bottle, especially if
can confirm you taste the plastic, you probably have the

(51:23):
same anatomical tongue as Delta work. Where she's tasting the plastic,
you're drinking the micro absolutely, but as she's walking through it.
And then she started to talk about the butt ice.
But maybe the butt ice is so fucking real, and
the butt ice is in those like those fast food

(51:43):
joints that don't take private presentation. It's one. I think
I could have gotten all of them, but Del Taco
being first would have thrown me because I don't do
Del Tacosa my culture.

Speaker 3 (51:53):
She had a whole thing about like, look, they have
my name in the title, or my name and the
name Delta. Go anyway, I'm telling you, I think I
could do a nugget challenge for sure. Burger challenge would
be easy because like, oh so specific. But she said
she could do ranch. I was like, oh that's insane.
Ranch is insane. She said she wanted to do cookie.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Yeah, cookie is like less interesting to me because it's
like it's hard to make that. Shall we say like
a blind test? Right? The diet coke is perfect?

Speaker 3 (52:22):
Yeah, it has to be through a straw. You can't
see where it's coming from. What You can only see
the delivery system and not the actual and there needs
to be like a consistency around the sort of the
way it's it's coming into you, Like that's the delivery system, you.

Speaker 1 (52:37):
Know what I mean? Yeah, yeah, yeah. When you said
delivery system, it made me think of we were driving
yesterday in West Hollywood and we saw those one of
those delivery boxes.

Speaker 3 (52:48):
Maybe that's my I don't think so, honey. Let's do it, Typer,
I don't think so, honey. This is where we take
one minute to rail against something in culture. Matt seems
to have something and I can only emphatically agree with him.

Speaker 1 (53:02):
Are you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. This is Matt Rodgers.
I don't think so many time starts now, I don't
think so, honey. At least in Los Angeles, there's those
delivery food delivery robots yea boxes on the street. I'm
telling you this sucks. Why are people talking about they're
taking our jobs? Don't come to West Hollywood. I'm telling
you who's taking your job? A box? A robot box

(53:25):
that is, I'm sorry, but not reliable. I could just
knock that box over and guess who's not getting your
food thirty seconds. I have no idea why this is
the case. Why can't we give people the jobs. Let's
give people the jobs, because guess what could move faster
than this rolling box on the street. A person, a
galvanized person who wanted to do a job that day

(53:48):
because they were making good living. These robot boxes. They're
bumping into each other in West Hollywood like there's some
gay guys bumping that bumping that. I'm just I feel
insulted every time I'm seeing them, because I know they're
good food in there, and I'm just I want it
and it's not happening quickly. I don't think so, Honey,
that's one minute. I don't like it. Their stupid little
blinking eyes. Stop that and stop trying to make them cute.

(54:11):
Give me a break, Send a check to Pixar because
you're trying to make them. Wally, Uh, hello you these boxes.
You could never be. We could never be, Wally. We're
going to Disneyland later today. I can't wait. What ride
are you most excited about doing in Credit Coaster? Of course,
I've never I don't think i've done cars before. You've
never done cars? Right? Is that pretty new? Again? I

(54:34):
have not been in five years. Oh my god, So
this new thing is happening. Where I realized my concept
of how much time has passed is like not good,
because I said, bowe, what are you talking about? We
want a couple of years ago, and I realized when
I took you it was pre pre COVID pre COVID. Wow. Okay,
so let's maybe we didn't get on radiator springs racers,

(54:57):
but I will trust and believe we will get on
it today. It's my favorite and we will be going
to the Little Mermaid Ride. All right. She's the most
beautiful woman in the world. Ariel. Yes, I guess it's
weird that I even had asked the question, huh, who
else in Ursula? I think Ursula is a ursula and
a beauty by language. I just you cannot if you

(55:24):
are not at all attracted to Ursula, stop lying to yourself.
You're in denial, bitch. God. That is that is pure
raw sexual power. It's sexual energy. Ursula shows up and says,
dare you to think anything other than what I would
be like rocking your world tonight in my cave, in

(55:45):
my cave, tentacles all up in your fanny. You're about
to get sucked in by my fanny.

Speaker 3 (55:51):
Can you imagine Disney doing the tit jiggle when she's
shimmys and poor unfortunate souls. They would never get away
with that, They would never do it now, But that
is so important, huge Like her tits are shaking as
they draw closer to the screen.

Speaker 1 (56:12):
I feel like we've lost the way. I'm ready, No here, okay,
put me on the clock. All right, here we go.
I love it. This is Bowen Yang's fresh out the oven,
fresh Aupislama. I don't think so, honey. His time starts now.
I don't think so, honey. What is the current state
of the Disney villains? We are just treading on nostalgia

(56:36):
for the past what two decades? They'll name the last
great Disney villain? The best I can come up with
is King Candy Slash Turbo and Wrecket Ralph, voiced by
the incomparable Allan Tutic voice acting legend, comedy legend, big
hunk legend. But other than that, I can't think of
the last great Disney villain because maybe they're too afraid

(56:58):
to give you like a big popping Disney villain, because
it's like they absolutely are because it's like, you know,
they don't want the kids to sympathize with them too
much or like identify with them. It is so important
for children to identify with villainy on some degree so
that you can develop some kind of compassion or understanding
or complex emotional knowledge of how the human condition is.

(57:20):
You need a good villain in order to move through
this world, in order to sort of you have fun
with it, in order to be participati of life. You
need a good Disney villain. And we've lost that thread
for years now. And that's why a minute, it's a
symptom of something larger, which is just fear in general.
It's like it's it's just so I guess, like the
Disney villains used to be so queer coded. Yeah, Now

(57:41):
in a world where they're so afraid of like hinting
at any queerness or like acknowledging any queerness or like,
you know, it just feels like things get softer and
softer and softer. Lost, we've lost even that element of it. Also,
these villains are supposed to stand in for something. They're
supposed to represent something else, something in society that is

(58:02):
an evil, whether it's like you know, greed or control
or unchecked power, and the fact is like, you can't
really soririze that stuff when you are that, when you
represent all those things here.

Speaker 3 (58:15):
I was just gonna say, like, wait a minute, like
you are, there's a fear of self examination going on
here where you're like, well, wait, we can't make Yeah,
it's crazy.

Speaker 1 (58:24):
It's also just from a storytelling perspective, like it's at
this point it would be boring for another movie to
come out, and the villain is actually my own doubts,
you know what I mean. Give me a fucking break.
Stop it. Put someone in a crazy fucking outfit, have
them have an overdrawn physical feature whatever it is, and
have them talk like a gay and to have them

(58:47):
tear it up and give them a big song. I
missed Scar, I miss I miss your uncle Scar, who
was so pissed that he had to sing be prepared
while his hyaenas gooned around him. Excuse me, that was
culture and that was intro to gooning one oh one
the hyenas. That's a rule of culture. Yes, sorry, one

(59:08):
more time so we can say it together. The hyenas
in Lion King Thanking. What rule of culture is that
twelve It's real culture number twelve, Lion King that was
intro to gooning one oh one. Especially d Ed was
goooning the entire time, Like, come on, we're so scared

(59:29):
of being raw. It just makes these things so boring.
And you know what's also annoying. You know who had
a good villain, The Princess and the Frog had a
great villain. Was a great villain, and they made this
Disney ride and like so the Prince, the Princess Tazi's
value dip has replaced Splash Mountain. And the big complaint
about that ride is there's no like dramatic tension. There's

(59:52):
no element of fear. There's nothing, and they'd even had
one built in and they refused to do it. God,
what is that?

Speaker 3 (01:00:00):
Like they don't want the kids Like is it the
parents don't want the kids to be too like they're
they're afraid to set the kids or something like, I
don't know, you.

Speaker 1 (01:00:08):
Know, it's like there's no danger in anything. It's like,
you know what I'm saying, It's like if anything at Disney,
Villain is important to like make tangible the fears that
children have and to give them some sort of model
to like overcome it or defeat it quote unquote, you.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Know, it's like god, yeah, it's wow. We really just
like stumbled into this idea that like I think we've
no one has ever vocalized. We haven't been able to vocalize,
at least on this show. Like the Disney maybe Donna
Murphy as Mother Golf though was the last great Disney villain,
And even that was like easy for.

Speaker 1 (01:00:42):
Them to bring out and draw out because like it's
literally based on something else. It's the end of the story. Yeah,
and I guess like the like Frozen is based on
the Snow in which she was the villain.

Speaker 3 (01:00:51):
But but in Frozen it's like a sneaky villain, Like
it's the guy that was the Prince comp was supposed
to be good all.

Speaker 1 (01:00:57):
It's like such a cop out, you know. Honestly at
the time, it was, and I remember being surprised by
because I'm like, oh, look like this it's actually this guy.
But like since then, you just get the sense that
like that kind of keeps getting repeated. I just would
encourage like some more straightforward stuff, like it's okay, there
are evil people out there, yes, you know what I mean,

(01:01:18):
Like there are and there are evil things out there
that that should be personified in these stories. And it
doesn't all have to be like you have to overcome yourself. No,
sometimes there are external forces that come in and test you.
It's not always what's going on in your heir. We
need like our generations like Pat Carroll and Jonathan Freeman,
like we need like Willy McCollister to voice like an
evil lamp or something.

Speaker 3 (01:01:42):
Maybe we have to create it BO maybe B two.
Although I will say not to talk about my own resume.
I couldn't talk about this during the strikes, but I
voiced a villain in a Netflix film, The Monkey Came
Check it Out, and that was and I was was
queer coded. I had a song. It was so much
fun and I'm so lucky that I got to do it.

(01:02:03):
And I'm just saying like it's it's a treat for
a performer to do, like like there's like it's just
fun to do, it's fun to watch, Like put it
back into a movie, into all movies. We need great
villains back in kids entertainment.

Speaker 1 (01:02:16):
It's just funny that we're talking about this with Disney too,
because they just announced the villain's land that they're gonna make.
So maybe they do know this, but it's like, if
you know this, then like, let's see more of them created.
Like it's it's you know what I'm saying, We're getting
a new princess every other year. It's like, but there
has not been a canonized New Disney villain in quite
some time. Did you ever see Wish? I started it

(01:02:36):
and I was like, nah, I just can't. It's supposed
to be Chris Chris Pine. Spine's the villain, is he? Yeah?
I think so? Okay, anyway, I just I had to stop.
I just think evil it's worth representing. Absolutely absolutely give
us something to conquer hun that isn't in here. I'm
doing therapy for that exactly. There should be an evil therapist. Wait.

(01:03:02):
The one thing I wanted to talk about that we
didn't get to was this Trump using Ai Taylor Swift.
Oh forget it. It's just so crazy because it's like this,
this insane, this stupid fucking and this is how you
know that the discourse has to be so lame and
watered down on a on like a huge mainstream level,

(01:03:24):
because there is no there there to the discourse of
who is Taylor Swift gonna endorse babe, even in a
world where she where she is the worst version of
what people may think she is, which is like a
brazen capitalist that like only cares about the bottom line,
et cetera. Even in that world where she, like maybe

(01:03:45):
in this made up scenario, does vote for Donald Trump
in the booth, in the privacy of the booth. It
is so stupid to think that in any world she
Taylor Swift, who makes who writes lyrics like she writes
a song like the man is the person that she is,
has publicly denounced Trump before, in many ways, released a

(01:04:07):
full documentary about her anger about this. It is crazy
to assume that she would ever endorse Donald Trump publicly
standing what she stands for. So why are we talking
about it? Like, yes, he used her fake AI, but
like you only allowed him to do that by prolonging
this thing of like who's she gonna endorse? Like she
is who she is, if she dances for what she

(01:04:28):
stands for, She's gonna come out and say, Kamala. This
insane thing of like who is it gonna be? It's
like pay attention for two seconds. I mean, they're just
kind of using this period until she does say something
to like I don't know, drive clicks or whatever, but
like this this AI story is so fucking stupid, so insane,

(01:04:49):
and I hope that there is some legal recourse that
can be taken there because it feels crazy to me
that he can do that and then post it on
an official account, and you know, I think it's like
a from the Trump camp is like, well, there's like
Swifties for Trump and this is a movement that's growing
all the time, which is like a lie. I'm sure
there are Taylor Swift fans out there, her being like,
you know, such a red state and blue state figure

(01:05:11):
throughout her career. I'm sure there are Swifties for Trump,
but like, why are we even allowing him to do that?
Like she so clearly represents everything that is in opposition
to what he represents.

Speaker 3 (01:05:27):
Yeah, I think I was a little stoned when you
were dear. It showed me that and I was like, no,
I can't, Like this isn't real, Like it's so bizarre
and surreal to me.

Speaker 1 (01:05:37):
I get that he gets to get away with all
of his lies because he is who he is, and
you know, people genuinely just believe what he says. Like,
we're just in a world now where there's like I
guess two medias and one is has convinced one half
of the country and the other has you know, quote
unquote convinced the other half because they're representing like something
that resembles more reality, which is that he's a fucking

(01:05:59):
he's the villain, you know what I mean, This just
is what it is. It's so bizarre. We've got into
a place where like he can even tweet that and
people would even buy it at all, because you'd have
to listen to two seconds of her music or understand
for one second like what she has spoken out about
and what she's cared about to understand that would never happen. Yeah,

(01:06:21):
but he can just do this.

Speaker 3 (01:06:22):
She would never put on an uncle stand costume and
have airbrushed skin, hair, everything, stand in front of like
a brick wall. I think and point and say, I
want you to vote for Donald Trump. I mean whatever,
that's just that's just where we're.

Speaker 1 (01:06:34):
At, like the warped image of it. Well, I just
I don't understand how we've gotten here. But then the
other day, my sister showed me something that a relative
of ours posted and it was like, oh yeah, wow, God,
people are just gone go. We have to go. We've

(01:06:58):
had a busy day of podcasting ahead of it. Yeah,
we're gonna go record two Guys five Rings right now,
the last episode, the last episodes, but not the last
of our careers. No, no, our careers will continue. I'm
saying maybe two guys. We have no idea I two guys.
Hibrings will continue. We hope to do it again for
the winter and for god Los Angeles. By the way,

(01:07:22):
Oh yeah, I was stuck in traffic for twenty five minutes,
longer than I should have to cover half a mile
at three thirty pm on a Monday. Good fucking luck
Karen Bass at all.

Speaker 3 (01:07:34):
We love you, Karen, We support but also I don't know,
not love, but you know what I mean, Like, this
is gonna be this is gonna be a crazy undertaking.

Speaker 1 (01:07:44):
But the fucking yeah, I was like was like bolm
was like, hey, I'm running really late at the traffic.
I'm like, yeah, it's Monday at three o'clock. Imagine Olympics. Crazy.
I don't get it. I just don't get how they're
gonna do it. But anyway, we'll say.

Speaker 3 (01:08:01):
We got a funny email to me. I'll tell you later, Okay.
We had every episode with the song if.

Speaker 1 (01:08:07):
The World and tell you if the ball was all.
I love the cigarette hanging from her mouth. Oh my god.
The choice to have the cigarette in her mouth on
the record, not just in the video. It's so good,

(01:08:27):
perfect Gaga. She did it again always and it too.
She sounds unel her best singing. So does Bruno, her
best singing. If the body was Bye Bye Last.

Speaker 3 (01:08:43):
Culturesis is the production by Will Ferrell's Big Money Players
and then I Heart Radio podcasts.

Speaker 1 (01:08:47):
Created and hosted by Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang. Executive
produced by Anna Hasnier and Hans Soni, produced by Becka Ramos,
edited mixed by Doug Baby, Anika Board and our music
is by Henry Kuberski