Everyone Should Try Being Gay with Karamo Brown

Karamo Brown is the first-ever in-person guest at Chelsea’s new home studio!  He’s here to talk about how he became a dad, breaking the cycle of abuse in his family, and why he wants to be single for a year.  Then: A bisexual woman wants to play the field, and she’s not sure how her boyfriend will react.  An ayahuasca experience goes awry.  And a puppy-custody dispute threatens to break a lifelong friendship.  

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice. 

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea. How are you. Oh, I'm well,
thank you. It's September. We're still in September. I feel
like September is definitely part of summer now, it's not
the fall. I was at Disneyland. Okay, that's enough, Nope,
no more talking. Almost died there. So there has been

(00:22):
a heat wave in Los Angeles, and luckily I've only
been there. I'm not there right now. I've only been
in Los Angeles for six days this month. Oh my gosh.
So that's been good because I tried to avoid I
tried to hop scotch around the country to avoid the heat.
But yeah, one hundred and five degrees is gross, especially
for like ten days straight. My family and I are
in the business now, My cousins and my nuclear family

(00:44):
are all in the business now of buying a compound. Oh,
we are looking in Connecticut possibly. I told Molly to
get on it because obviously I can't do any of
the legwork. She's responsible, and she's responsible, way more capable
than I am doing almost anything. When we were on
tour this last weekend, I was like, can you just
go up and do my set for me? And She's like, no,

(01:04):
that's one thing I cannot do say she probably knows
that now. But I can do is my set. It's
like I'm capable of doing nothing but talking excessively, and
that I don't even really want to do that either.
I mean, I don't know. Everything I do is writing talking.
It's all word use. That's it. You're a specialist. I'm
a talking specialist. Even my editor came back to me

(01:27):
last weekend and we had to do a legal call.
I had to do a legal call to make sure,
like book, yeah, for these situations that are true. And
my book is going to be published on a very
special date next year. It may or may not be
my fiftieth birthday, So we will get to that when
we get to that. But she was like, oh, we
have to do and I'm like, listen, I don't know

(01:47):
how many more conversations I can have about this fucking book.
I wrote it. It's in great fucking shape, and like,
let's wrap it up. I told Molly, I'm like, I
have to do a call about my book. She's like,
oh my god, is that book still Oh my good?
Has it even come out yet? And I'm already done
talking about it?

Speaker 2 (02:02):
So you need to like manifest for you, like things
coming to a close, like things like moving the fuck.

Speaker 1 (02:08):
I know, Oh, Doug, not you, Doug though, no, not you,
you say we need you. Our guest today is someone
you know as one of the Fab Five on Netflix's
Queer Eye. He also has his talk show Karamo, which
is back for it's third season. So please welcome Emmy
winning talk show host Caramo Brown.

Speaker 3 (02:30):
Through Life. I don't wait for anyone else to do it.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Yeah, no, exactly. You got a clap for yourself. If
I could clap with my feet, I would be but
I can't. I could do other things with my feet, though,
but we'll get into that later. I'm sure. I'm just
about to say, obviously you can too. We're recording in
my house today, so this is very exciting, beautiful home.
You're oh, well, thank you, it's coming together. You're our
first in house guest ever. That is exactly well. I

(02:55):
always love a black man to start anything off for me.
This is perfect. Okay. I want to talk to you
about your story because it's pretty fascinating about your children,
So break down for us. You came out when you
were sixteen, is that right?

Speaker 3 (03:08):
Fifteen?

Speaker 1 (03:08):
Fifteen fifteen and you had already gotten someone pregnant unbeknownst
to you.

Speaker 4 (03:13):
Yea.

Speaker 1 (03:14):
So she was I like your stuff.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
Yeah, you do it right. She was my best friend.
She was probably one the first people I told that
I was gay at fourteen, before I told my entire family,
and which was rough because I'm a son of immigrants,
so my parents aren't from this country.

Speaker 1 (03:27):
Where are they from?

Speaker 3 (03:28):
Jamaican and Cuba, And the Jamaica's side is very you know,
they're very homophobic. But I just knew I couldn't live
my life without telling the truth. I'm somebody who just
spits out my own truth. Hey, like I like you,
no secrets, tell it all. And so she had a
boyfriend that was a senior when we were a freshman,
and she didn't want to lose a virgina to him
and be bad, so she'd be bad in bed, be
bad in bed. So she asked if I would practice

(03:50):
with her. And again at fourteen fifteen, it made sense, like,
you know, I'm gay, but I can practice with you.
I'm a male, so we can practice. And anything got
me hard back then, like the breeze, the wind got
me hard.

Speaker 1 (04:01):
That's always something that comes up with men that we
had sex with women before they came out. People like,
how did you get an erection? I'm like, ah, any
teenager can get in an direction, anything by.

Speaker 3 (04:10):
A curtain, yeah, anything, you know what I mean. The
beating of the music in the car, and all of
a sudden, I was like aroused, and so we did it.
It lasted, no joke, five seconds, and I sat on
the edge of the bed, like pacing back and forth.
It was like no, no, no, but I was just
like I knew I did not want to do that
ever again.

Speaker 1 (04:26):
Was it sex?

Speaker 3 (04:27):
It was obviously penetrated once or twice, and then was
like I don't like this, don't like this, and I
feel bad later in life I apologize because I'm like
I ruined your first time. Like I'm on the bed
of the side of the bed crying and you're like
holding me and saying I'm so sorry, and I'm like,
that's your first thing.

Speaker 1 (04:44):
It's almost like you were in a threesome and you
were the third person that got left out, sitting on
the edge of the.

Speaker 3 (04:48):
Bed exactly, and then she moved away. This is nineteen
ninety five, so this before the internet. Like the things
that we know today cell phones, so when someone moved,
if you didn't have their home address or their home number,
you couldn't you know, see him. And so I went
on with my life. And then when my son was nine,
I got a stack of paper for back child support
from the Attorney Generals of Texas office, and I thought

(05:10):
I was being punked because that show Punk was on
and I was on Real World back in the day,
so I thought they were doing some like punked, you
know d lists version, you know, like let's punk the
gay guy from Real World. And I was like, I
don't have a freaking kid, threw the papers down, and
then soon that night I realized I saw her name
that I hadn't seen since I was fifteen, My name

(05:32):
and then this kid's name, and then I went back
to Texas where I'm from to find out if it's true,
found out it was, and then petitioned for custody of
him six months later, full custody, full custody because she
was now twenty five with five kids, so she was drowning.

Speaker 1 (05:46):
And so she had reached out for support to you right.

Speaker 3 (05:49):
Who was she applied for benefits and the State of
Texas found me because she put my name on the
birth certificate without me knowing.

Speaker 1 (05:55):
Oh okay, I see.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
And so when I showed up on her doorsteps, she
didn't even know that I was coming. And it's funny
because I should have been angry, but I wasn't because
the men I saw her, we were fifteen again, I
know the broken home she came from, and so I
just remembered us being kids, and so I just was like,
we just started crying and laughing. And for the first
thirty minutes that we reconnected, we didn't even talk about
the kid. Were like, we're just reconnecting. And then she

(06:17):
was like, oh shit, your son's coming home in thirty minutes.
Do you want to meet him?

Speaker 5 (06:21):
But what prevented her from reaching out to you this
whole time?

Speaker 3 (06:24):
She said she didn't want to ruin my life, like
her life was wrong.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Oh oh my god.

Speaker 3 (06:29):
She was like she wanted We grew up extremely poor,
and she was like she wanted want of us to
make it, and so her idea was by me not
having to deal with this, I would make it. And
there's a lot of part to that that's true. I
talk about this with my best friend Tray all the time.
Is that, like, I don't know if i'd be here
if I had to have the responsibility of raising a
child at fifteen, absolutely, you know, like I was afforded

(06:52):
to go through high school, I was afford to go
through college, I was afford to move to LA to
kind of live my life. And then a child popped up.
And don't get me wrong, I was still young, but
now I had all the resources and enough knowledge to
take care of him. But at fifteen, I mean, I
don't think. I don't know if that could have screwed
me up totally. I might have went back in the clouse.
I don't know, you know, I'd like, I don't know
where my life would have been if she didn't make

(07:13):
that decision. And so because of that decision, that's why
I took custody, Because I said, I'm going to make
your life easier in every way I can.

Speaker 5 (07:19):
And was she okay with you taking custody for custody events.

Speaker 3 (07:22):
Well, she was because of the fact that I made
a promise to her that I would keep our family tight.
So even for the first year and a half that
I got him, I didn't move from Texas, even though
I had my place in La I'd made sure that
every day we were going back and forth so that
he felt connected. But then I realized there was a
bigger plan because within that year, she has another son
who because I worked as in social services, I was

(07:44):
a safe placement and so instead of them moving all
the kids into foster care, and so he came with me.
And it was supposed to be for six weeks thirty
six months, and somewhere at that year point of him
being with me, he was doing better. He's going to therapy,
his grades was great, and he called me dad because
he never knew his biological father. And I was like, oh,
should I have two kids? And so I went to
her and I was like, they're both doing good. Should

(08:06):
I take custody of both? And she was like, thank you.
And we've been a tight knit family. She comes, we're tight.
We go back and forth and and you know, so,
I'm like, you did it for me so I could
be here, so I'm going to help you.

Speaker 1 (08:18):
Wow, that's really beautiful.

Speaker 3 (08:20):
So the lesson of this is every girl out there,
sleep with your gay.

Speaker 1 (08:23):
Bestie, that's right. I hope that they'll make it on
queer eyes and then yeah, and I get.

Speaker 3 (08:29):
Their own talk show.

Speaker 1 (08:30):
Yeah, so how is that? I mean, what that responsibility
coming on in such a burst. I mean, you don't
really have a lot of time to prepare for that responsibility.
So what what was it about it that made it
so doable for you?

Speaker 3 (08:46):
Well, it wasn't. I think I had this sort of
blind delusion because my father was shitty and I knew
that I didn't want to be him, so I sort
of I went into this with sort of like a
vengeance of I'm gonna show you you fuck her, I'm
not like you and I and so if I'm being
real with it, it wasn't that I was like I
could be a dad. I just knew that I wasn't
going to be him, and I wanted him to watch
me be better than him. But in that process I

(09:09):
learned so much empathy, love, vulnerability. Like my kids saved
my life because right before I'd met them, I was suicidal.
I tried to kill myself two years before. My best friend,
the same person is the one who found me. He
was leaving for work and I just tried to do
it and then on his he had a sense and
came back and called the ambulance. So I was just
having and it was all based on daddy issues, all

(09:29):
daddy issues, everything about my father hating me. You know,
my dad was abusive to my mother my entire life,
and when I told him I was gay, he literally
from in high school because we lived together my mother
finally divorced him. He would walk by me for weeks
without saying a word. And now I know what type
of emotional and mental abuse that is, but at the
time it was just our household. He would literally be

(09:51):
standing in the kitchen. I would ask him questions to me,
like talk to me, talk to me, and he would
not because he was like, I don't want to talk
to your fagot ass. And so I knew that I
could be better than him when I became a father,
and that was sort of the catalyst. I'm like, yeah,
give me.

Speaker 5 (10:03):
Kids, and what's your Have you had any contact with
your father now?

Speaker 3 (10:06):
Yeah, a couple of years ago, like six years ago,
which I thought was the money and fame, but he
hasn't answer or anything. Fingers crossed. He came to me
later and was like, I'm so sorry for how I
treated you. I reconciled my relationship with religion and my
relationship with you, and I realized I should have put
you first. I'm sorry for everything I did. Please give
me a chance, and I had already give forgiven him
from years ago. I was like, I was like, you

(10:28):
didn't know no better because your daddy didn't teach you
any better, and you didn't know any better because you
were hurting, And so I just I gave that up
a long time ago, any hurt. And also I didn't
want my kids to see me hating.

Speaker 5 (10:37):
So I was called a cycle breaker.

Speaker 1 (10:40):
That's book to cycle breaker.

Speaker 3 (10:43):
Yeah, so I just opted and I was like, you
welcomed me back in my life. Thing. Two boundaries I
have is that you can never disrespect me in front
of my children, because if you have a problem with
who I'm dating or who I'm loving. And secondly, you're
not able to teach any of my kids in your
bad habits, So like if you're drinking or these things,
and does I said, if you can respect those two things,
you're fine. And he has not ever say anything bad.

(11:04):
And when he gets around the suns, he is like
an angel. And my Mom's always like, that's all it took.
Tokim a fucking angel with some boundaries on his ass.

Speaker 5 (11:11):
I know better late than never, though, right.

Speaker 1 (11:13):
I Mean, people can be such big disappointments in your life,
but once they turn it around, it's like all is forgiven.
I mean, if you're a healthy person who's able to forgive,
oh yeah, yeah, yeah, a lot of people that can't.
But forgiving is so good for you, it's so good.

Speaker 3 (11:25):
Well that's why I did it earlier, because I realized
when I was suicidal it was because I was holding
onto all this anger with him, and I was like
resenting him, and it made me sadder. And then I
was like, I don't want to be here anymore because
like what, I'm gonna end up being like him and
like all this stuff. I had a boyfriend before, when
I was in my twenties that we were in a physical,
abusive relationship and anytime I got angry, I would hit
him and it was you too, No, I was I

(11:49):
was a bully. I was my father. I was my father.
And that sort of led me to that place of
being depressed because I knew I was turning into him,
and because it was the only model I have where
I like, people would get mad and I would just
go silent. I was just like literally turning into him.
And I didn't realize until I forgave him and told myself,
I have to work to be better. I have to work.

(12:11):
I have to make conscious decisions to break this that
I would have I would have turned into him. And
so you know, I'm glad I didn't.

Speaker 1 (12:18):
No, I'm glad you did it too. What's your relationship
status these days?

Speaker 3 (12:21):
I'm single?

Speaker 1 (12:22):
And are you available looking for a lover?

Speaker 4 (12:25):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (12:25):
No, you're not.

Speaker 6 (12:26):
I am not.

Speaker 1 (12:27):
How old are your kids now?

Speaker 3 (12:28):
Twenty six and twenty four?

Speaker 7 (12:30):
Shit?

Speaker 1 (12:31):
Yeah, that is crazy.

Speaker 3 (12:34):
I do not want a relationship. Why because they're trash? Well,
I want everyone else to find love. I just don't
want to.

Speaker 1 (12:42):
Well that's normal for to go through phases where you're
not interested.

Speaker 3 (12:44):
Yeah, what, I've never been seing on my entire life.

Speaker 1 (12:47):
Well, then that's why you need to be single.

Speaker 3 (12:48):
That's it.

Speaker 4 (12:49):
Yeah.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
How long has it been.

Speaker 3 (12:51):
That I've been single?

Speaker 1 (12:52):
Mm hmm?

Speaker 3 (12:54):
What two months?

Speaker 1 (12:55):
Oh? Well that's not a lot of time.

Speaker 4 (12:57):
I know.

Speaker 3 (12:58):
I'm being patient and.

Speaker 1 (13:00):
You're not getting penetrated at all. I'm sorry, or penetrating anyone.
I don't know if you're a top bottom. Okay, Well,
I can talk about your body that you're probably a top,
a good top. But yeah, I've been able to now
differentiate tops and bottoms. I'm like, oh yeah, well, I
mean it's pretty obvious. Are you a top or bottom?

Speaker 3 (13:19):
I don't know?

Speaker 1 (13:19):
But also, why the fuck does it matter?

Speaker 4 (13:22):
You know?

Speaker 1 (13:22):
Why am I decided? It's not like you look at
a heterosexual couple and be like, does she get on top?
Like you don't think about that? It's so gay? Thank you.
I'm just very curious. So how long do you think
you'll go? How long? What's your plan to remain alone?
Because I think it's very healthy to be okay by yourself.
Everybody needs to learn that.

Speaker 3 (13:42):
Yeah, my plan is hopefully a year or two. Oh, okay,
that's the plan. You think I should go longer?

Speaker 5 (13:49):
No, I think that's a long time. Yeah whatever, I mean.

Speaker 3 (13:53):
I just I know, at least a year. But I'm
my best friend. He thinks it should be at least
to because I haven't been single, like and I slept
with her. I got into a relationship with a boy,
and got to another relationship with a boy and to
another one and they're all long term. I ended my
relationship when I found out I was kids and then
moved kids in and then during them I had a
ten year relationship, broke up with him in twenty twenty,

(14:13):
then got to another one two months later, broke up
with him, and then got into the one I was
with for three years.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
But you must feel I would imagine being on a
show like Queer Eye really lends itself to confirming your
positivity about your gayness.

Speaker 3 (14:28):
Oh yeah, I like being gay.

Speaker 1 (14:30):
I mean right, yeah, but a validation.

Speaker 3 (14:32):
I swear most people should try being gay once in
their lives.

Speaker 1 (14:36):
Most people do try one. Some people try a couple
more of the time than once, and you're like, ah,
you might actually be gay.

Speaker 3 (14:43):
Yeah you're right. Yeah, but I love it and being
on the show. Yeah, it just what it really does
is like it helps. It feels so good to go
into spaces where people might have reservations or like my father,
not know how to reconcile their religion with their love
of other people, and the fact that you can walk
into spaces and then all of a sudden they're like, oh,

(15:04):
we're all the same, yeah dummy, Yeah, of course we're
all the same. But sometimes it takes people a little
bit longer, and so to be able to be on
a show where you've just become that image that all
people deserve respect and love and kindness feels good.

Speaker 1 (15:17):
Yeah. I mean it's it's a good message, will and
for it to be such a huge hit, for it
to be in one so many Emmys and beyond for
so many years, it's a big validation for gay people everywhere.
Among the other cultural things that are happening. It's nice
to see something like that be so successful.

Speaker 3 (15:34):
Can I tell you a story that I want to
share with you that you're never going to remember?

Speaker 5 (15:37):
Oh fine, Oh, I already know I won't remember it.

Speaker 3 (15:40):
It's actually a really good one.

Speaker 1 (15:41):
Oh good, I love. Those are my favorites, only because.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
You brought up the career I before was in television.
Came to your house. This is twenty sixteen, fifteen you lived.
I don't even know. I was bell are Yes with
Charlie Ston's.

Speaker 7 (15:55):
Mother, Juke Gerdad Yes, and her friend Keisha Knowles. Okay,
I probably don't memembory these. You had a dinner party
and they somehow let me come and I was there.
You are very kind, You're nice, and you say, what
are you doing? I said, I work in social services
and he said, then you know, what do you really
want to do? And I said, I really want to
be a TV host and you looked me up and
down and said you're going to make it. And I

(16:16):
was like, ah, I thought you're being sweet, and then
you stopped and said, no, you're going to make it
because you're thoughtful in your kind and I really believe
in you, and you need to know me, and those
type of things when you're a big celebrity to say
to somebody who's on the come up, which is very kind.
First of all, I was surprised you have me in
your house.

Speaker 3 (16:30):
Me too, oh, like, what the hell? And you have
me in your house and you said the kindest things
to me that night.

Speaker 1 (16:37):
That's so nice.

Speaker 5 (16:39):
Thank you for sharing that.

Speaker 3 (16:42):
What really surprised me was to stop and like, no,
I'm not saying this just to say this. I'm encouraging
you in a very I.

Speaker 1 (16:49):
Think it is very important, especially now that you're in
that position. It is very important to always see people
and make sure that they know you saw them, because
it really does make a difference in every person's life
when they are being seen or when they are seen,
you know, like and especially so much I feel this
way about children, you know, when children are going through
tough times or they just need one fucking person, not

(17:11):
to become famous, but just to be to have like
their back, to like I see you, I support you,
I've got your back, and I'll be here for you.
It really is something that goes a long way, and
as you can demonstrate by your memory.

Speaker 3 (17:25):
It's meaningful, meaningful.

Speaker 1 (17:27):
And I remember when people said things like that to
me as well.

Speaker 3 (17:29):
Yeah, because it's that extra pause, you know what I mean.
I just think about leaving parents when they're busy, and
we get it, but you're talking to your kids, you're
doing stuff. But when you say, let me put down
and let me be present, partners kids with a stranger,
because that's what I will see, a stranger. And that's
why the pause and saying no, you can make it
meant something, because it was like, you don't know who
the hell I am. You don't even know if I'm

(17:50):
good or not. But your encouragement in the pause was
enough to say you can at least try. And I
believe and so appreciate you have me over your house.

Speaker 1 (17:58):
And she was right, Yeah, exactly the most important bar. Okay,
I'm not We're going to take a break and we'll
be right back to take some callers. And we're back.
We are back.

Speaker 2 (18:16):
We actually have some very juicy ones today.

Speaker 1 (18:18):
I love juicy.

Speaker 3 (18:19):
I love a juicy booty.

Speaker 1 (18:23):
Did you see my big black dog, Beautiful.

Speaker 5 (18:25):
I finally have a black man to come home to
you every night, Doug.

Speaker 1 (18:29):
It's a man. They were like, we have a black one,
we have a blue one, and I'm like, you know what,
so beautiful. Look at him?

Speaker 3 (18:38):
He is.

Speaker 1 (18:38):
What kind of dogs do you have?

Speaker 3 (18:40):
German shepherd mix husky mix and a.

Speaker 5 (18:43):
Blue healer, a blue healer, a lot of energy blue heeler.

Speaker 3 (18:46):
Actually, she was abused for so many years, so she's
so quiet and all she does is protect me. But
the Shepherd husky mix though nightmare.

Speaker 1 (18:55):
High energy, high energy.

Speaker 5 (18:56):
Yeah, this is a fir. I haven't had a hire
ANAJR dog in a while.

Speaker 1 (18:59):
And I'm like take it. Yeah, okay, and we're back, Catherine.

Speaker 2 (19:04):
What do we have, Well, we've got a shared custody
situation with Zoe and McKenna.

Speaker 4 (19:10):
There.

Speaker 1 (19:10):
Zoey's the one writing in.

Speaker 2 (19:11):
She says, Hi, my name is Zoe, I'm twenty two,
and my friend's name is McKenna.

Speaker 1 (19:15):
She's twenty three.

Speaker 2 (19:16):
McKenna and I have been volunteering at a local animal
shelter for five years now. We've also been roommates for
two years. Once we got our own place, we met
a pupp at the shelter and absolutely fell in love.
We brought him home as a foster, but both of
us knew we wouldn't be able to give him up.
We adopted him and named him Billy. For two years,
we've split all the vet bills, the adaption fee, other
costs and responsibilities for Billy, and we both love him

(19:38):
very much. We knew we weren't going to be able
to live together forever and plan to work something out
when things changed, Well, things changed. I got a job
in a city that's five hours away. Understandably, neither of
us wants to part with Billy, and since I'm the
one moving, I do see McKenna's point that it might
be more fair for her to keep him. That said,
she's moving back in with her parents, who already have
two dogs, and is a full time student.

Speaker 1 (20:00):
She's still a good.

Speaker 2 (20:01):
Dog mom and would care for him, but her parents
would share their responsibility and she has two dogs at home.
My new job would be hybrid remote, so I'd be
in the office two days a week and home the
other five to spend time with Billy. I've also looked
into doggie daycare and walkers. I'm kind of nervous about
moving to a new city on my own and would
love to have Billy there with me. I expressed this
to McKenna in conversation, and she brought up that since

(20:21):
she signed the adoption papers, Billy is technically hers, so
I can't take him. Since we're such good friends, I
thought maybe there was a compromise to be made, as
I was a bit taken aback, as this seemed harsh
to me, like it could strain our friendship. In hindsight,
we should have had more discussion on different scenarios of
custody when we adopted Billy, but we were excited to
have a dog, and we both still love him so much.

(20:41):
We're at a bit of a stalemate, looking for an
outside opinion to help us move forward. Zoe and McKenna, Well, I.

Speaker 5 (20:47):
Love couples counseling.

Speaker 3 (20:49):
This is right. This is hi girl, Hi, Hello, where's Billy?

Speaker 6 (20:56):
Billy is actually here?

Speaker 3 (20:57):
Do you want to see you billy.

Speaker 8 (21:01):
Me.

Speaker 2 (21:03):
I really, I see why you could get very sweet,
Ni Kada.

Speaker 5 (21:10):
Where are you right now with your parents?

Speaker 6 (21:13):
Yes, I'm actually at my parents right now because we're
having like a little family vacation. We're leaving to Kelowna tomorrow.

Speaker 1 (21:19):
So oh you're in Canada?

Speaker 4 (21:21):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (21:22):
Oh, I love it. And so where did we move to? Which?
Which city?

Speaker 6 (21:26):
She's moving to? Vancouver?

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Oh?

Speaker 1 (21:29):
Okay.

Speaker 3 (21:29):
So what do you feel like you're going to miss
emotionally if you don't have this dog.

Speaker 6 (21:33):
The support, Like, I feel like the emotional support. He's
like my heart, my heart dog, my soul dog. And
it's hard because we both love him so much.

Speaker 3 (21:43):
But what is it that you need emotional support for
what's going on in your life?

Speaker 6 (21:47):
Just like school and life? And I actually I'm a
dog walker, so I feel like my life works well
with him, Like I am able to like take him
out every day, and I am going back to school,
but like I'll still have the time for him, and
I always have prioritized him.

Speaker 3 (22:05):
Would you feel like you need somebody to support you
right now? You feel like you're feeling stressed overwhelmed?

Speaker 6 (22:10):
Yeah, I mean I feel like I always have needed
a dog, just because like I've never lived with a dog.

Speaker 1 (22:15):
Mm hmmm, Okay, do you feel a strain on your
friendship right now because of this issue with your dog?

Speaker 6 (22:21):
I think we're doing a good job about like communicating
about it and trying to like figure out what works best,
but like, it definitely is hard to make that decision.

Speaker 1 (22:31):
And when you found out initially that she was moving,
were your thoughts immediately like, oh, I'll be keeping the
dog because you are the one who signed the papers.

Speaker 6 (22:39):
I mean, like, I think because it's been both of
our responsibility and because we've both taken care of him,
I don't really think it's fair to say that I
get him because of the papers. But yeah, it's definitely
hard to come to decision.

Speaker 3 (22:52):
But you sign the papers, right, Yes, I did. And
you said it's not fair now to say because you
signed the papers that you don't get.

Speaker 6 (22:59):
Him because we didn't really talk about it, like we
never really had that discussion.

Speaker 3 (23:03):
But didn't you use the papers as a way to
say that's why you should keep the dog?

Speaker 6 (23:07):
I mean yeah, but I also like feel bad because
we are friends and like I don't have any hard
feelings towards her, but it is But.

Speaker 3 (23:14):
You said it. Yeah, you said I got the papers
and it's mine.

Speaker 6 (23:17):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (23:18):
Was making you want a backtrack right now. It's because
you know that that statement might have hurt your friend
and could have damaged your friendship.

Speaker 1 (23:23):
Yeah, okay, Hizai, we were just getting some backstory from Makada.
We were getting some backstory about the dog and Karama
is a.

Speaker 3 (23:31):
Question for you, So Zoe, when she said to you,
I signed the papers, that's the bottom line. How did
that make you feel?

Speaker 1 (23:38):
Not great?

Speaker 9 (23:39):
It was just kind of taken aback. That seemed too
serious for our friendship. We've been friends for like ten
years now, so that was kind of crazy. I thought
we could kind of maybe discuss it or fine, maybe
I could keep Billy till she's done school and then
maybe reassess after a year. Just there was some I
feel like there could be more solutions there. She only
said at the one time. It hasn't really come.

Speaker 3 (23:59):
Out An's apologetic.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
No, I mean you want to get your friendship together.
You guys want to maintain your friendship and figure out
a solution. Can I ask you, Zoe, like, if you
are moving to New City, what about getting another dog
that is yours alone?

Speaker 9 (24:15):
I've thought about that, but it's just like I, you know,
I've known this dog for two years now, adopted him
when he was a puppy. And and McKenna, I know
she feels the same too though, but we both just
have that connection with Billy. So either one of us for.

Speaker 4 (24:27):
Both someone's going to be sad.

Speaker 9 (24:29):
I think for a bit, right.

Speaker 1 (24:30):
But is it a possibility for you to get another
dog where you're moving?

Speaker 9 (24:34):
I think it. I guess it could be a possibility.
I would prefer Billy, don't want to just replace him
like that, but it would be a possibility, I guess.

Speaker 1 (24:45):
And what about you, McKenna, if you think about it,
what about you rescuing another dog and having Billy live
with her for a while. Would you be open to
that or no?

Speaker 6 (24:55):
I mean, yeah, I think i'd be open to I
don't know, like same with like I just feel like
it's so tough because, like it is, he has been
in my life for the past two years, and it's
really hard to just like it would feel like I
was replacing him.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
When you two lived together, Who's room did he sleep in?

Speaker 1 (25:11):
Usually?

Speaker 3 (25:12):
Mine? Okay?

Speaker 4 (25:13):
Really?

Speaker 9 (25:14):
Really he kind of switches enough sometimes.

Speaker 3 (25:17):
Yeah, that makes sense. I have my verdict and I'm
not a judge. Do we know? Do y'all know?

Speaker 1 (25:23):
I'm just thinking about what kind of compromise can be made,
and it doesn't seem like this is how I feel.
You're moving. You're the one who's uprooting, right, So it
is kind of not fair to assume that you get
to take the dog because McKenna isn't the one that's
leaving the situation. So I feel like it is tough
because you did rescue the dog together, but you are
the one that's changing where you live.

Speaker 4 (25:45):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (25:46):
I do also want to ask, does Billy get along
with your parents' dogs?

Speaker 4 (25:50):
Yes? Yeah he does.

Speaker 6 (25:51):
Okay, he's been around them quite a bit, so yeah,
they get along super well.

Speaker 5 (25:55):
I mean other than flipping a coin. What do you think, Caramo.

Speaker 3 (25:58):
McKenna, you are the winner. Okay, you get the dog.
I'm sorry. The thing is that it's all stacked in
your favor. I'm a dog dad, just like you're a
dog mom, and dogs will let you know who they
want to sleep with. They will follow somebody around. The
fact that he slept in your room was a big
factor for me. But also on top of that, you
also sign the papers. And then thirdly, like you said, Chelsea, Zoe,

(26:22):
you're unfortunately the one that's uprooting. And so at this point,
as much as I want to say emotionally I would
love for you to have that support, I think it's
better for you to grieve the relationship with the dog
so that you can strengthen the relationship with your best friend,
because at the point right now, you two having this
disagreement when you're all about to move is going to
cause dissension. And if y'all knowing each other since seven
years old, the friendship is worth it more where you

(26:44):
can see this dog in photos and then get your
own dog versus you all going back and forth like
this and you're losing something in that critical bond that
makes you two so happy, you know, Like I'd rather
you have mckennada talk to while you're moving and making
this new transition in your life versus not having anyone
closely to talk to because you feuded over a dog.

Speaker 1 (27:03):
And I also just think this is a really good opportunity, Zoe,
for you to get your own dog. Like I mean,
I know Billy was your dog, I get it, but
you're moving and like you're moving into a new city.
It's a perfect thing. It's a perfect occupier of your
time to rescue another dog. You don't have to get
a puppy and put in all that work. You can
go to a rescue and pick out a new dog,
because that's going to help you be more social. It's

(27:24):
going to help you to meet people, and it's going
to help you to feel safer in your house. And
it's a great project, especially when you're new to a
town and you don't know that many people. It's a
great avenue. And I'm sure Billy is a comfort. But
you've had all of this experience in the last two
years of having a new dog, which is gearing you
up to be ready for another new dog.

Speaker 3 (27:44):
Yeah, Zolle, We're sorry. I wish we could side, we
could tell you, but I know we love you.

Speaker 8 (27:50):
We love you, Zoe.

Speaker 2 (27:52):
I was just gonna say, you know, this will likely
be forever, but not necessarily. You know, mckennay. You might
move into an apartment a year or two from now
where you're like, you know, I really want to live here,
but they don't take dogs, you know, Zoe, is it
it would be okay for you to take him, so
you know, there could be something else down the line.

Speaker 1 (28:08):
But I agree with Chelsea.

Speaker 2 (28:09):
This is an opportunity for you to expand the amount
of dogs that you're saving and dogs you have to
give love to.

Speaker 1 (28:15):
So I may think about how many dogs out there
need homes, you know.

Speaker 4 (28:19):
Yeah.

Speaker 6 (28:19):
I mean, we also do work at a shelter together,
So I.

Speaker 9 (28:23):
Think I want to take with you to go Maybe
we could go together.

Speaker 1 (28:27):
Yeah, go together that I canna. I love that idea.
Go together and find her her new dog, and then
you can sign the paperwork on that dog too, McKenna,
so that anytime you want the dog back and just
take it.

Speaker 3 (28:42):
Zoe, I'm gonna tell you learn from your friend McKenna
signed the paperwork. Okay, it's about the paperwork.

Speaker 2 (28:51):
Get those receipts, all right, girls, Thank you so much
for calling in, and send us pics of your new
dog when you get one.

Speaker 1 (28:59):
Bye bye bye. First of all, good problem solving, Caroma,
Like you've really handled that, because I wasn't going to
go that far, but we really actually made a decision
for them and now they have to stick to it.
It's like they went to the people's court.

Speaker 3 (29:14):
Well no, I mean Also, I'm pretty good at body
language and I read it. It's something that I studied,
and I could tell that McKenna's more anxious and has
more of an anxious personality than Zoe does. And people
with more anxious personalities normally do need compassion or and
the companionship of a dog. So that's why I asked
her where her emotional state was, because I can tell

(29:35):
when Zoe came on she was smiling. Happy.

Speaker 1 (29:37):
Yeah. Now that's a good point.

Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, really good point.

Speaker 1 (29:39):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (29:40):
So this next email comes from Victoria.

Speaker 1 (29:46):
She's going to join us as well.

Speaker 2 (29:48):
Dear Chelsea, my life isn't a complete shit show, but
like most people in the world, I do have a conundrum.
I have two beautiful kids, a fiance, house, a job,
a podcast, and a very active social life. No, I
don't sleep. The only problem is I don't want to
get married and I'd love to explore the bisexual side
of myself. Sorry, not love to need to. I always

(30:09):
knew I was bisexual, but I never explored it because
I was never attracted to anyone in real.

Speaker 1 (30:13):
Life until well after college.

Speaker 2 (30:15):
I've hooked up with girlfriends here and there, but have
never officially dated a woman first and foremost. I always
knew I wanted to have kids, so now that I
have them, I feel like I'm ready to fully explore
that other side of me. Of course, the biggest hang
up is my fiance. When I was in my twenties,
I never had any issue breaking up with a significant other.
As soon as I found something wrong, I'd cheat on
them and start dating the person I cheated on them with.

(30:36):
It honestly was probably one of my biggest downfalls, but
my dad taught me to never settle, and I took
those words to heart. When I told my fiance that
I'm bisexual, he said he didn't mind if he was involved, shock,
and we hopped on the dating apps. A month later,
I was pregnant with our second child, so that ended
abruptly and we haven't revisited it since. After I had

(30:57):
the baby, we went to a friend's party a few
months later, and I ended up cheating on him with
a girl there while he was in the next room.
I love my baby daddy a lot and care so
much for his well being, but we started as platonic friends,
and deep down, I feel like that's what he'll always be.
We've discussed calling off the engagement many times, but men
are so afraid of being alone. I feel like he's
guilted me into staying. Oh, I know you've never had

(31:17):
this exact situation, but you're a witty, smarty pant, so
I'd love to hear if you have any advice. Obviously,
I need to move on and explore this other side
of me, but navigating that road with all of the
baggage is hard.

Speaker 1 (31:27):
Victoria, Hi Victoria, Hi Victoria. Hey, this is our special guest.

Speaker 3 (31:33):
Caramo Victoria. We just heard your story and there was
a lot that you're in tourmoil over right now?

Speaker 4 (31:40):
Yes, yeah, yes, for sure.

Speaker 3 (31:42):
So I want to your father told you that you
should never settle. Yeah, and what does that mean to you?

Speaker 4 (31:47):
I don't know. I mean, obviously, I feel like most
dads probably think that no one is ever going to
be good enough for their daughter. But I don't know.
He said it to me pretty young, and I just
took it to heart.

Speaker 3 (31:57):
And you know, do you think anybody's ever going to
be good for you?

Speaker 4 (32:03):
I guess in what way?

Speaker 3 (32:05):
Okay, no, you laughed, Toby. What I need to know?

Speaker 4 (32:09):
I mean, obviously good enough to have kids with, which
is a big freaking deal. All right, yeah, yeah, But
as far as like marriage and like a legal financial
commitment to someone, like, to me, that's scarier than having
kids with someone.

Speaker 1 (32:24):
I hear you.

Speaker 5 (32:25):
I hear you on that front, and I respect that.

Speaker 1 (32:28):
I think that is I think that is also just
a more contemporary way of looking at things.

Speaker 5 (32:33):
Also thinking about not settling.

Speaker 1 (32:36):
That is a good thing, and it can be a
stupid thing, but I think overall it's a good thing
to think that you have high value and that you're
worth a lot. I mean, we should all be feeling
that way about ourselves. It's pretty obvious that you want
to explore women and you're attracted to women, and that
the guy that you're having your children with isn't somebody

(32:56):
that you're going to feel attracted to for a very
long time. So getting into a marriage under those pretenses
doesn't sound like an honest thing to do, So why
would you, you know, and putting off breaking up an engagement,
like freeing yourself from a situation, is also freeing the
other person from the situation. Just because it's hurtful to
them in the beginning doesn't mean you're not doing them
a favor by living under this like false hope, you know,

(33:20):
And so I would say to just be honest about
where you are and that you're going to explore this
side of you. He can figure out how he wants
to handle that, but he deserves the truth so that
he can make an educated decision, Like if you guys
want to co parent, which you're going to have to
do for the rest of your lives anyway, Right, you
want to have respect for each other and you want

(33:40):
to be honest with each other, and this is one
of those major first steps. And being honest and respectful
towards the other person is by sharing your truth and
your desires, and they don't include marrying him. It doesn't
sound like.

Speaker 4 (33:53):
Yeah, yeah, it's just so tough. I don't know how
to break it off because we have kids and house together.

Speaker 1 (34:01):
But you don't necessarily have to break it off, like
you can say, hey, here's how I'm feeling. This is
the situation. Think about how this makes you feel and
if you would be able to be in a relationship
with me while I was exploring this side of me,
And when you're not involved, it's not necessarily going to
be a threesome. Every time I'm interested in women. You know,

(34:22):
maybe there's a guarantee of saying like I'm not going
to be with men. You know, I'll tell you if
that happens, it'll just be women. And that's what I'm
looking to explore. I understand if you're not down with that,
but I have to be honest out of respect for
our relationship, and I think you'll probably get a bit
of a different result than you're expecting.

Speaker 4 (34:40):
I don't know he I mean, he definitely. I don't
know if he'd want to stay with me and let
me go off and explore, because I've already tried to
do that and it didn't work out really well. So
I know for him it'll be better for him in
the long run just to cut it off kind of
as soon as possible, because there are other reasons why

(35:00):
I feel like it's not going to work out, but
this is one where he can't change. There's nothing he
can do in this situation. It's kind of like something
I have to do for myself. It's not like he
did something stupid. I forgive him and we move past it.
So I know in the long run it'll be better
for him and he can go find someone he'll be
happy with But it's just so hard because we have

(35:23):
been best friends for such a long time.

Speaker 3 (35:25):
I think for you, because I agree with Chelsea. I
agree everything she just said about the communication in this relationship,
and I also believe that marriage shouldn't be for everyone.
Like I used to be so gung ho on marriage
and now I'm like, girl, you don't need that, Like
that is so foolish. But what I'm most concerned with
when it comes to you is that I think you're
going to repeat this pattern whether you're with him or not.
And the reason I'm saying that is because I'm watching
you how you're rubbing your head every moment, saying this

(35:46):
is hard, this is hard. That being hard is about
something that's going on inside of you, and it started
when your father's told you not to settle. And there's
something that is lingering within you. Why you're not making
choices or communicating about what you truly need and want.
And now you're getting stuck into these relationships where you
know you're not happy, and then you feel like it's
hard to break it off for them, But really what's hard,

(36:07):
it's that you're not willing to face what's really going on.
In your heart sound a little right, Yeah, for sure.

Speaker 4 (36:12):
Definitely in this situation. When I was in my twenties
and I found something wrong with a guy at break
up with them, no problem, but with kids involved, and
since I have you know, I've been best friends with
him forever. Like I feel like a lot of people
are like, oh, you know, you should be best friends
with someone for ten years and then date them, like
your relationship will last so much longer. But for me,

(36:33):
I feel like it's so much harder for me to
break it off because we are such great friends and
we've had years and memories.

Speaker 5 (36:40):
Yeah, but that's why he deserves your honesty.

Speaker 1 (36:43):
Do you know what I'm saying? This isn't about being
hard or difficult. This is life. You're an adult, you
have children, You're gonna have a lot of decisions that
are hard or difficult, and the way to actually act
with integrity is to face those difficult situations with as
much honesty and grace as you can. And by avoiding it,
you're putting your own happiness on the side, and you're

(37:04):
actually doing the same to your partner because you're not
being truthful to him and you're not as happy as
you would be if you were free to roam around
and pursue what you're more interested in pursuing, and there's
nothing wrong with that. So you have a family, So
there are many ways that this can resolve, Like he
can agree to say okay, I will let you go
and explore, or you can say no, this is like

(37:25):
I'm not going to be comfortable with that, and you're like, Okay,
we've been friends for this many years. We're going to
make sure we're going to be friends for the rest
of our lives because we have children and we're going
to co parent. And what's Gwyneth Paltrow's favorite couple consciously unscious,
consciously a couple. But don't be a pussy about it,
because then you're just you're creating problems for everybody, including

(37:46):
your children, because what they're going to see modeled for
them is going to be you less than happy, or
you holding secrets and him less than happy. And you
don't want to expose your children to that. Anyway, you
guys could have a great friendship for the rest of
your life, and that would be more healthy for your
children to see than a marriage that isn't truthful.

Speaker 3 (38:03):
Yeah, but there's something you need to face about yourself.
I'm gonna keep telling you, and you're gonna get off
this call because Chelsea is telling you how to handle
the present situation perfectly. But what you're missing is you
need to handle something within you. And I'm seeing it
even as I ask you these things about you. You
keep going back to kids, you keep going back to him,
you keep going back to best friends, and you're not

(38:25):
focused on you. There's something going on in you while
you're repeating this pattern and while you're making this choice
and why this is hard, there's something. Because it's really
not that hard for you to communicate everything Chelsea's telling
you do. You've already told him, you already tol him,
I want to do this. He called you in the
bedroom with somebody else, So you really have no issue
with all that stuff. And there goes a smile, so
you know that's true. You have no issue in communicating
what you want. But there's some fear that's inside of

(38:47):
you that you're not tackling. And I'm telling you, if
we dissect what you said your father told you young,
that you were still repeating to yourself whatever narrative he
told you, you've turned into something way different, that it's
causing fear, anxiousness, anxiety in you, that it is causing
you not to be who you need to be for yourself,
and it's now lingering into all these other relationships. If

(39:07):
I had about another thirty minutes with you, we can
figure that thing out.

Speaker 1 (39:09):
But we can't listen all right, Montel Williams, listen to him,
he's like fucking lefts.

Speaker 3 (39:15):
Go okay, listen, do that soul searching.

Speaker 1 (39:18):
I think you gotta, yeah, you got, and you got
to like face up to these difficult situations. I know
it's hard, but you want to get some pussy, and
there's nothing wrong with that, you know what I mean, Like,
what are you gonna do? Put your needs on hold?
You're putting someone's needs on hold at every point, you
know what I mean. And that's okay in certain circumstances,
but not for life decisions like this. And also you're

(39:39):
not married, so that's a huge advantage too. You don't
have to get divorced.

Speaker 2 (39:45):
Right, Still complicated, but it's less complicated. And you know,
I kind of keep coming back to what Chelsea is saying,
like you're wasting his time. But you're also wasting your time?

Speaker 4 (39:54):
She is, Yeah, for sure. I feel like I just
need to put the hammer down and have like a
more serious conversation with him because I have said, like,
I want to break up with you for X Y
reason like and he's just like no, no, like let's
work it out, like he's pushing really hard to stay together,
and I feel like I just need to be like no.

Speaker 1 (40:13):
Or Also, it's not that you have to break up
in this moment, but you have to say I want
to go pursue women, not with you. I'm interested in
experimenting and seeing what's at there and I need the
time to do that. If you're okay with doing that, great,
If you're not, we need to talk about breaking up.

Speaker 4 (40:31):
Yeah.

Speaker 3 (40:32):
Are you afraid of being alone?

Speaker 4 (40:33):
No, I'm not being alone. I just I don't know.
I know you're gonna yell at me for bringing up
my kids again. No, I just picture like the kids
if we move, if we move out, like I move
out or he moves out, whatever, our four year old
is definitely gonna be like, where's daddy, where's mommy? When
are they coming back?

Speaker 3 (40:52):
So you're afraid of disappointing your family?

Speaker 4 (40:55):
No?

Speaker 3 (40:56):
See, I gotta figure it. There's some fear there, I'm
telling you, even when she just said again, I'm gonna
put that's.

Speaker 1 (41:01):
It's natural to want to not disappoint your four year old,
But that's not a good reason either, Like aour year
olds are resilient. Well, right, I hear what you're saying.
But four year olds are resilient. People get divorced, They
split up all the fucking time. Yes, there is a
deeper issue within you that you're not able to face
your problems in a way that is solution oriented. You know,
there are a million solutions here, and you're just kind

(41:22):
of leaning into just letting the status quo be the
status quo and not making any move. You have to
make a move, yeah, for sure, And especially with the
warning like this, especially with saying, hey, I'm going to
experiment with women. I'm curious about women. If you can't
handle that, then we need to talk about splitting up.
If he says he can handle that, then that gets
you six months okay, And in six months time you're

(41:44):
going to really know if that's who you want to
be with, if you want to be with a woman.
And then he's already had his serious talk and conversation,
and then it's not coming out of the blue, like
he can choose to stick around while you're experimenting with
women that might make you even more turned on to him.
I don't know what's going to happen with all of this.
You don't know if you really want to be with women,
if you're just bisexual or whatever. So you know you

(42:07):
should give it like six months and just say, hey,
I want to be as open and honest with you
as possible about what I'm feeling and thinking about. And
there's no argument with that. There's nothing he can say.
You can't start. I don't want you thinking about women, Like,
come on, you know there's nothing he can say about
that other than I will tolerate this or I won't.

(42:28):
And if he ends up moving out and your four
year old ends up having to go between homes, your
four year old will forget that you guys were together
within six months. How that's how resilient children are at
They won't even remember.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
Yeah, two happy homes is way better than one unhappy
home where mom and dad are not really living their truth.

Speaker 4 (42:47):
Yeah for sure.

Speaker 2 (42:48):
Okay, and then you know, you get to split custody
and you have time to go date.

Speaker 1 (42:51):
By the way, no one advertises that enough. When you
split up with someone, the free time you get away
from your kids should be like a banner for divorce,
like you get a life again, you know, and then
you can get all the pussy you want.

Speaker 4 (43:06):
Oh my god. Alrighty okay, Victoria, all.

Speaker 5 (43:11):
Right, Victoria. I hope you liked getting yelled at today.

Speaker 4 (43:14):
I appreciate it. I need it. I need it.

Speaker 1 (43:17):
Okay, good, good, Okay, keep us posted. Thanks, thank you.
He's trying to get to the bottom of the he's
like trying to get a deeper issue. That's the longer.
That's like a fucking.

Speaker 3 (43:28):
Four hour it is for me. It's just that when
anytime I hear somebody's problems, this is for any problem.
There's always something more. If any problem starts with I,
it's I, I I. And so she can say about
kids and all that. I'm a parent, I know all this.
It's about you. And the thing that the reason I
want people to understand, and this is for anybody listening.
We say things to ourselves that we get our childhood,

(43:49):
and we repeat them and they become bigger mountains in
our heads. And that one about what her father said.
She didn't need to write that in that's something that
Scott said to you. And now it's plaguing you, and
it's playing with your mind, and it's playing with how
you see your world, how you see yourself, value, how
you see And she's not focusing on that. She's like, oh,
some mine want pleasing. It's not about that, you want
to pu you already your man already cast you in

(44:10):
the next bed with somebody else.

Speaker 1 (44:11):
I just wish everybody would fucking get some balls and
leave a situation when they are not happy in the situation.

Speaker 3 (44:17):
That's what I'm saying. There's something, there's a fear she.

Speaker 1 (44:19):
Has, Yeah, but everybody has fears, everybody has everything. So like, yes,
if you're a therapist, you have to get down to that,
you know, the granular level and find out what the
deal is. But if it's a problem that she's dealing with,
well it's a result of that. But it's also like, okay,
let's figure out this situation. Yeah, because even when you
give her the advice, the answer she wants, she's still
like yeah, yeah.

Speaker 3 (44:41):
Because she's not there. She's not ready to face it. Yeah,
she's not ready to face it, and that's all. I
was like, we could tell you all goddamn dataly this
guy and be honest with them, and you know whatever.
But she's she's going to repeat this pattern right after this.
Even if she gets out of this, it's gonna happen again.
She said she's been doing it at different degrees since college.

Speaker 1 (44:57):
I also wish people would just fucking make moves. Make
moves like you have no idea how big and broad
your life can be when you have the courage to
say this isn't working for me, you know. And I
know that's easy for me to say because I don't
have children and I'm not married. But there are reasons
I don't have children and I'm not married so that
I make fucking make moves. Okay, I'm not. We're going

(45:19):
to take a break and we'll be right back and
we're back.

Speaker 2 (45:25):
Well, our next caller is John is twenty three and promo,
you're sober right me?

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Yes, Fish sounds like it sounds ish ish, sounds like.

Speaker 3 (45:37):
I just don't like hard liquors. I don't don't. I'll
drink it like a beer.

Speaker 2 (45:41):
Okay, all right, Well, John says, dear Chelsea, I'm a
twenty three year old accountant who's been looking for inspiration
in my sometimes boring life. I turned to ayahuasca and
psychedelics for some more insight and life guidance. And while
the first many times were great, I had my first
horrible trip.

Speaker 1 (45:58):
For six hours straight.

Speaker 2 (45:59):
I felt like I was in hell, strapped to a rocket,
being blasted by colorful geometry and scary entities that laughed
at how scared I was. Needless to say, I will
never be doing them again, and I'm committed to sobriety.
I'm focusing on gratitude that I'm what.

Speaker 1 (46:14):
Drug was this? Iowa?

Speaker 4 (46:15):
Oh?

Speaker 8 (46:16):
Hello?

Speaker 2 (46:16):
But he says he's done five DM eot yeah and
all that stuff. Okay, I'm focusing on gratitude and then
I'm back and safe. And I didn't think I was
going to come back from that house. But I'm lost
as to how to move on from this. How do
I interpret such an awful time? How should I go
about leaving this behind me? I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

Speaker 1 (46:34):
John, Hi, John, this is Karma. We have a special
guest today. Hello Karama.

Speaker 8 (46:39):
I've seen your show soank you appreciate it, love it
a lot thank you.

Speaker 1 (46:44):
Okay, So you had a terrible ayahuasca experience.

Speaker 3 (46:47):
Yes, it was not.

Speaker 8 (46:48):
I'd like gotten some stuff from some friends and yeah,
it just wasn't like it was tough. But I feel
like it's like helped me become like a lot more
grateful for a lot of different things.

Speaker 1 (46:58):
Well, that's not nothing.

Speaker 3 (47:00):
Have you ever done ayahuasca?

Speaker 1 (47:01):
Yeah, I did a special on it on Netflix where
you can see me do ayahuasca. But first of all,
that's a great gift that you got from it. Being
more grateful and having more gratitude is already like a
net plus. So you're acting like it was a terrible
experience across the board, but you got something good out
of it. So I think you should have gratitude for
the gratitude. Yeah, and I definitely do.

Speaker 8 (47:23):
I think like for me, it just kind of has
helped me realize I do kind of want to venture
more into sobriety and just being more in tune with that.
Might've had a lot of problems with like alcohol and
just things like that throughout my life and then that
kind of like just scared me away from everything in
a lot of ways.

Speaker 1 (47:38):
That's good, but these are all good things. You're looking
at this as a negative and how to move past it.
These are good things. You're becoming more sober and you're
saying drugs and alcohol are a problem in your life. Great,
you are more grateful, Great, Like, these are good things
that came out of ayahuasca.

Speaker 5 (47:54):
You're not looking at it from the right lens. I
don't think.

Speaker 3 (47:56):
Are you afraid you're gonna lose friends? What's the hesitation? Then?

Speaker 1 (47:59):
Now? Oh?

Speaker 8 (48:00):
I think it was just it was genuinely like a
horrible experience. I keep like going back to it thinking,
I don't know, like I have kind of a lot
of guilt about it, just because I'd done other things
and I like.

Speaker 5 (48:10):
Thought it was what was horrible the visuals?

Speaker 8 (48:12):
Well, I remember how you Chelsea had said like you
had done five meo and you just felt like it
was like really like a tough visual experience, And that
was definitely how I was feeling too. But it was
also like the aspect of it just felt like very sinister,
and I was not used to that either, Like at
one point i'd like become like a cancer patient in

(48:33):
a hospital. I just had this horrible feeling and all
I could think of was it was like this voice
telling me, like, there are so many other people out
there that feel like this way all the time, and
you need to be more grateful for what you're going
through and things might be kind of boring or like
tough in your life, but it was still just that
like horrible, you know, feeling that like I'll never really

(48:53):
be able to shake kind of it's just kind of
I guess, really just being more grateful about my life
in generals kind of what I got out of it,
I guess.

Speaker 1 (49:01):
But have you ever done AMDR therapy?

Speaker 8 (49:04):
I have never done that.

Speaker 1 (49:05):
Now, Okay, well that's a really good thing because that
really focuses on a traumatic event that is bothering you,
and then you live through that event again without having
the same feelings that you had the first time. It's
like electro I forget what it stands for, electromagnetic whatever, AMDT,
AMDR AMDR movement desensitization and repass. Good, there we go,
And Okay, so you could go to a therapist and

(49:26):
do that and work specifically on that. And the other
thing I would say is that sinister vibe and all
of those things you're feeling you can look at as
a representation of what your life would have become had
you continued using drugs and alcohol.

Speaker 3 (49:40):
H Okay, that's fair.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
That is a good wake up call, and you should
look at it and frame it in your mind like, oh,
that was what I would have become if I hadn't
woken up.

Speaker 3 (49:51):
Agreed.

Speaker 4 (49:52):
Okay, Yeah, that's a good way to look at.

Speaker 5 (49:54):
It, because you're moving forward in a new way.

Speaker 1 (49:57):
That's the past. It happened, it woke you up, and
you're moving forward. There's no reason to let that experience
haunt you. If anything, it turns the corner for you
in a very positive way. Yeah, for sure, I see
that too.

Speaker 8 (50:10):
I think it's just like still kind of the struggle
of regular living, and you know, I still kind of
want to go back to it a little bit, But
then I do like it is kind of a nice toolbox.

Speaker 3 (50:19):
So you don't trust yourself that you will make this
decision and stay on this.

Speaker 1 (50:23):
Path, I think I will, think.

Speaker 3 (50:26):
But you're struggling. There's a bit of you that doesn't
trust yourself. I could see it in the hesitation and
how you just put your head up.

Speaker 1 (50:31):
I know, but I trust you. I trust you too,
and I think that that situation is your reminder to
trust yourself to stay on the right path. It is
that situation is going to be useful tool for you
moving forward in life. When you are tempted to get
back into drugs and alcohol, you need to look at
that and be like, I don't ever want to feel
that way again. And that was your wake up call,
and that was your warning call, and I trust that

(50:52):
you will move forward in the right way.

Speaker 8 (50:54):
Okay, I know I will for sure. Thank you for
saying that. That's kind of sense as the deal.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
So okay, great, then let's end this conversation here.

Speaker 2 (51:01):
You got it right, you got this, Thanks John.

Speaker 1 (51:04):
Okay, bye John, Bye, guys. Well this was beautiful. You
were great. I mean you are. You're Montel Williams for sure.
We're across between doctor Phil Montell and who's the other guy,
Jerry Springer. No Springer, that's too trashy. I like how
you get to the heat of the d You're like,
what is really going on? I'm like, we don't have
time for that. We don't fucking have time for what's

(51:27):
really going on. We have to take another caller. No,
you're a delight. Thank you so much for being here.
I'm so glad you've been in both of my LA homes.

Speaker 3 (51:35):
I know, excited.

Speaker 1 (51:36):
We'll have to get you to more.

Speaker 3 (51:37):
I would love to love that.

Speaker 1 (51:39):
Thanks Carramo. You can watch him on his show, which
is a national syndicated talk show on during the day
different times, but it's called Carramo and also on Queer Eye.

Speaker 5 (51:50):
Thank you for being here.

Speaker 3 (51:52):
Thank you.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
I was just kissing into the microphone. Goodbye everybody. Okay,
So upcoming shows that I have you, guys, I'm coming
to Texas. I'm coming to Saint Louis and Kansas City,
and then I will be in Las Vegas performing at
the Chelsea Theater inside the Cosmopolitan Hotel. My first three
dates in Vegas are September first, Labor Day weekend, and
then November two and November thirtieth. I'm coming to Brooklyn,

(52:17):
New York, at the King's Theater on November eighth, and
I have tickets on sale throughout the end of the
year in December, so if you're in a city like
Philadelphia or Bethlehem, or San Diego or New Orleans.

Speaker 5 (52:32):
Or Omaha, check Chelseahandler dot com for tickets.

Speaker 2 (52:35):
Okay, if you'd like advice from Chelsea shoot us an
email at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and
be sure to include your phone number.

Speaker 1 (52:43):
Dear Chelsea is edited

Speaker 2 (52:44):
And engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com