Expansion with Sarah Paulson

Sarah Paulson joins Chelsea in-studio to talk about what happens when you’re not sure if dinner is a date, why she’s scared of holes but not snakes, and how she leads an unconventional life.  Then: A cheating wife pays the price at home… and at work.  A chef can’t seem to turn up the heat on her dating life. And the passing of a best friend has one hairdresser thinking she may be alone forever.

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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This episode was recorded prior to the SAG-AFTRA strike.  

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea, how are you well. I'm in
New York. I'm stopping down in New York. I have
such a very, very hectic travel schedule this summer. I mean,
I just can't keep up with myself. So I don't
know which way is up or what time I'm sleeping,
or I was in Martha's Vineyard for six days or
five days with my annual family trip. I've had a
lot of family time. You have everyone's been watching my Instagram,

(00:24):
or if everybody hasn't been watching my Instagram, But I
have been with my family and people NonStop. I don't
think I've been alone in something like forty five days.
So I flew in yesterday from the vineyard because I
went to Dave Chappelle's birthday celebration, one of his birthday
celebrations last night, and then tonight I'm going to perform
at Madison Square Garden for his birthday. I'm going to

(00:44):
go and do a guest set, a pop up set
for his birthday. And so that was really fun. There
were a lot of fun people there. Last night. I
lasted till about I smoked a joy with this girl
of Noelle. I haven't smoked weeds since I've been gone,
because I don't travel with those kinds of drugs and
that's illegal, by the way. And I smoked a joint
with her and was out of my tree. So I

(01:08):
lasted until about like nine to forty five, and then
I got in the car and had my driver go
get us a two pieces of pizza. Well, actually I
went and got us two pieces of pizza. He stayed
in the car and I got one for him and
I got one for myself.

Speaker 2 (01:18):
You have full service.

Speaker 1 (01:19):
And then I seasoned his like I seasoned my own.
And he's like, that's a lot of garlic. I'm like, well,
I'm single, so tonight I have that. And then tomorrow
night I have this little pop up show in East Hampton,
and then I go to my worka for a month.

Speaker 3 (01:32):
Oh that's gonna be so nice. You're just having a
get away from your getaway.

Speaker 1 (01:36):
I'm I have five days alone in my work up,
five days before my guests start to arrive. Each week
I have a different set of ten people coming, so
I have five days to myself. I'm gonna be like,
bang out some serious writing for my new book Good
and Yeah. I'm just gonna keep the party going. I mean,
I've just had so much action this summer and been

(01:57):
around the world Africa. We went to three countries in Africa.
We went to Zimbabwe, Kenya, and Tanzania, and then we
went to Cape Town. My sister and I got rid
of the kids, and I could not have been more
excited to be alone with just my sister and adulthood
and not dealing with any sort of teenage melodrama. I

(02:19):
didn't sleep alone for the first six nights of Safari, oh,
because someone was in my bed every night, not a man,
a snuggle buddy, a child, and so yeah, so I
am like ready every night. Then I get into bed alone, I'm.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
Like, you can starfish.

Speaker 1 (02:37):
Yeah. But I have had a lot of action this summer.
I've had a lot of boys, a lot of fluttering around.

Speaker 2 (02:42):
Oh oh, that kind of action, a lot of Yeah.

Speaker 1 (02:45):
So I'm happy. It's exactly the kind of summer I
was hoping for.

Speaker 3 (02:49):
I'm so glad just like getting out there, you know,
find us something fresh.

Speaker 1 (02:53):
I've been seeing concerts. I saw two Bruce Springsteen concerts
which were fucking incredible, incredible. I saw one in Oslo, Norway.
We went for three days, which is I'm going to
go buy a house in Oslo Decks. That's where the
place I think to be is for climate change.

Speaker 3 (03:06):
Yeah, everyone's going to Osla or going to Norway this summer.
I have like three friends going to Norway, Like.

Speaker 1 (03:11):
Oh yeah, it's fucking gorgeous. The air is clean, the
people are cool. It's like they get it. They had
a huge gay Pride event. I loved it. I saw
two Bruce Springsteen concerts. I saw the weekend last week
in London. I swung through London again. Swang. Can you
say swing? No? I like London. I swang. I think
that refers to actual swinging. Swinging in London. I swang.

(03:34):
So yeah, Chelsea, I have a question for you.

Speaker 4 (03:37):
How have you changed in the last year?

Speaker 1 (03:39):
Have I changed in the last year. My patience has
definitely changed in the last year. My tolerance for undesirable
circumstances has grown. I've found myself in a couple of
situations or hotel rooms that normally I would just walk
right out of, and I'm like, you know what, just
suck it up, Just suck it up. You stay in

(04:00):
enough nice places. And my reading has grown. I've been
reading so much this year, so I've been using my
time wisely instead of watching mindless TV and scrolling on
my phone. I've made a real effort to read, pay attention,
and spend less time on my phone. And it's not
always a home run, but for the most part it is.
It helps when I'm on when I'm on vacation, I'm
not on my phone a lot. You know, there's a

(04:21):
time like when we go to bed, I'm in bed
with my sister, because I sleep with my sister everybody.
Her name is Simone Handler Hutchinson. I don't know why
she's supposed to be divorced so it should be Simone Handler.
But anyway, she and I are always bunk mates when
we travel, and we've been spending the entire summer together,
so we've had a lot of one on one time,
and I try I sexually harass her in the bed

(04:42):
and before we're going to bed. She doesn't like that,
she says, But like any sexual harasser, I can't control
the I can't control myself. She yeah, she loves it.
She loves it.

Speaker 4 (04:53):
That's good.

Speaker 2 (04:54):
Are you guys cuddlers?

Speaker 1 (04:55):
No? No, no, no, we don't do that. I mean, no,
we don't cuddle the sister. No, no, my cousins do
that though they're all gross. They all sleep in the
same bed without underwear. I'm like, what wait wait, yeah, yeah,
my cousins will sleep together with Gabby in the same
bed and they all be topless or bottomless. I'm like, oh, guys,
this is so disgusting. And my family would never do anything.

(05:19):
I would never. I don't even think I've ever seen
my sister's ever seen my Oh yeah she has. I'm
in my family. I'm the freebird. Were you a naked
family or not? No? No, no. I never saw my
mother naked until she was dying, and like she was,
you know, we needed to take her to the bathroom
and stuff, but my mom was very shy and she didn't.
And I'm not shy, but I don't walk around topless

(05:39):
or naked in front of my brothers or sisters. But
I also don't care, Like if they see me my
sister's care, they don't want to, they don't want My sister,
Shoshana won't even wear a bathing suit. She wears shorts
over her bathing suit because she's so self conscious. And
I'm like, oh, who cares? Like we all have cellulate
who gives a shit anymore?

Speaker 3 (05:55):
Just fatties. I was in a very naked family. We
were just a very naked family.

Speaker 1 (05:59):
Yeah. That also doesn't appeal to me. Quite frankly, I
don't because of the way I grew up. I'm just
like like when I see people. My friend, I remember
being at my friend's house and she just stripped right
in front of me, went to the bathroom and then
walked through her bedroom and her three boys were in
the bed. And I was like, oh, what is this?
And then I was like, actually, that's probably the way
it should be, but it's not what I'm accustomed to. Yeah,

(06:22):
and now we have one of my most favorite people
on the podcast today. She's I think, pretty much everyone's
favorite person, one of everybody's She's in the top ten
of everybody's favorite person list. She is an Emmy and
Golden Globe winner, and her name is Sarah Paulson. Sarah
Paulson is here everybody, and as usual, she's already pulling

(06:43):
her Shenanigans.

Speaker 4 (06:44):
That's correct.

Speaker 1 (06:44):
She thinks we're in SeeMe Valley, which I've never been to. Actually, no,
I did, I was. I was once there. Accidentally, and
she's already had to go to the bathroom four times.
She's been here for thirty seconds. Sarah, we have a
lot to discuss. First of all, I have to ask
you question.

Speaker 4 (07:00):
Hit me.

Speaker 1 (07:01):
You're in a very long term, successful relationship. Sure that
I didn't realize you had met on Twitter? You two
connected on Twitter.

Speaker 5 (07:09):
That's that's a little bit of a compressed Okay, can
you I don't know that it's that interesting.

Speaker 1 (07:14):
Oh I bet it is. I think people are interested
in your relationship, yes, okay, why because it's people think
it's weird. Well people, it's it's not traditional, very to
be but I mean, I think people are into it.

Speaker 5 (07:25):
Yeah, I'm I'm I think a lot of people. I
think all of our people are into which is all
we care about. Yeah, yeah, yeah, why we're in relationships.

Speaker 4 (07:34):
Anyway, right, the public's approval?

Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah exactly. I was on a date the other night
with a guy and all I could think to myself
was how will everyone react to this? And I was like,
what are you doing? And I was like, I wonder
how this will be seen? Because it was very it
was a non traditional date. I will say, well, you're
not going to say more about it. No, because I'm
not going to see that person again.

Speaker 4 (07:57):
Oh that's okay.

Speaker 1 (07:57):
It wasn't I wasn't interested, but I thought while we
were on the date, I was.

Speaker 4 (08:01):
Like, oh, I know that feeling.

Speaker 1 (08:02):
What if this develops into something Cobby break you down?

Speaker 4 (08:05):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (08:05):
Yes, I'm like, oh, will I have a private relationship
or will it be a public relationship?

Speaker 5 (08:11):
So essentially, Holland Taylor and I met at a dinner
party that was thrown by a friend that's for Holland
that our friend Lee rose through for Buck Henry, the
incredible screenwriter Buck Henry, who's no longer with us. And
it was a huge dinner party that I was invited to.
I was thirty years old, I guess dating someone else
that was with Cherry Jones at the time. And there

(08:32):
was one seat left at the table of this dinner party,
and somebody arrived late and it was miss Holland Taylor,
and she came in this sort of very what I
now know, I'm very familiar with the coat she wears
that she was wearing them that of course I didn't
know then, but now to me is a very specific
coat and this kind of drum like like hair muscled
and late and like, I like this blue and she

(08:53):
was like, oh god, the part, you know, it's this
whole thing and wes yeah, a little bit just like that.

Speaker 4 (08:58):
Sure, yes, that was my.

Speaker 1 (08:59):
Last Yeah, so okay, not racist, Peppe.

Speaker 5 (09:10):
And there was one seat next to me and I thought,
oh God, please don't let I found her to be
very terrifying.

Speaker 1 (09:16):
Because you had admired her.

Speaker 4 (09:17):
I admired her before.

Speaker 5 (09:18):
I remembered sitting in the movie theater in New York
City watching One Fine Day, and I remember her coming
on screen. She played Michelle Feifer's mother. This says a
joke we make whenever she feels unattractive. I'm like, you know,
you have played some of the most beautiful women. It's
not even up for debate. Michelle Fifer is one of
the most beautiful women to ever walk the planet. You
played her mother, like, we imagine that she we believe
that she came out.

Speaker 4 (09:38):
Of your body, that you grew her, you know.

Speaker 5 (09:40):
And I was like, that's something you know that I
think tells everybody you're beauty. She doesn't think that, but anyway,
I turned and I looked up and I thought, that's
the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in my life.
I hope she doesn't sit next to me. There's not
a chair to be had for anywhere else, Like, there's
nowhere else for her to go. And she sat next
to me, proceeded to make fun of me all night long,
thirty years old, and I was on Studio sixty and

(10:01):
it was a show that she loved and wanted to
be on, and of course nobody was watching it, and
I just felt like a loser idiot, and you know,
I was.

Speaker 1 (10:07):
It doesn't sound like she was making fun of you,
but she was compliments looking.

Speaker 4 (10:10):
At me, like how old are you? She kept saying, yeah,
oh I'm thirty, And she was like thirty. What kind
of mora? You know, Like what kind of idiot is thirty?

Speaker 1 (10:18):
You know, she just like she.

Speaker 5 (10:20):
Just like, great, idiot is thirty. And then you know,
and then the craziest part was at the end of
the night we walked out of that restaurant, I think
it's called Luke's on Beverly Boulevard.

Speaker 1 (10:33):
There was this I'm sure it's been shut down. No,
it's there. It's still there. Oh well, shout out to everybody,
go it's great.

Speaker 5 (10:41):
There was some kind of very very fancy sports car
parked out in front of the restaurant, and Alison Janny,
who's a good friend of mine, was at this dinner.

Speaker 1 (10:48):
Everyone loves Janny.

Speaker 4 (10:50):
And so it's me, Alison, Janny, and Holland.

Speaker 5 (10:52):
And when we were leaving the restaurant, Buck Henry was like,
let me take this photo, and all three of us
piled on top of this car that was not ours,
and we like, you know, I was like, like.

Speaker 4 (11:01):
My picture, it's really I'm leaning all.

Speaker 2 (11:03):
The way back like such a thirty year old move.

Speaker 5 (11:05):
A thirty year old move like this, And Holland's doing
something very respectful, and so is Alison, and I'm like,
h hang ten or something like that I was doing.

Speaker 4 (11:13):
And Buck then sent us these pictures.

Speaker 5 (11:15):
And that picture was on my refrigerator for a decade
before Holland and I got together, so her her picture
was in my house on my refrigerator. I saw it
every day. So this was the first time I met Holland.
Ten years later we met again. Did you slide into
There was that, but it was post doing a benefit
for an organization called AS four that as FODS, an

(11:36):
abortion rights organization that Martha Plimpton started, and we're both
friends with her, and so she asked us to make
these little, you know, ads or something to support the organization.

Speaker 4 (11:46):
And we were doing it.

Speaker 5 (11:47):
One after another, and we re met each other then
and then followed each other on Twitter and that's when
the DM slide happened. And then like a year later,
we went to dinner. I thought it was a date.
She did not think it was.

Speaker 1 (11:57):
A date, so wud she She thought she was just
going to dinner with.

Speaker 4 (12:00):
Going to dinner with another human.

Speaker 5 (12:02):
Yeah, And I was like, I had called my friends
just being like can I you know, I was having
that thing of like can I what will this look like?
What will people say if I go out? At that point,
Holland was I just turned forty. Holland was seventy two, And.

Speaker 1 (12:15):
Oh, I didn't realize it was so thirty two years
two years.

Speaker 4 (12:18):
Yeah, wow, Holland's eighty.

Speaker 1 (12:21):
Wow. It's fascinating.

Speaker 4 (12:24):
It is pretty fascinating.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, because it would you would it would? You know,
I've always dated older people than myself typically in relationships,
but I would think it would be hard to sustain
over a long period of.

Speaker 4 (12:37):
Time to date with an older person.

Speaker 1 (12:39):
Yeah, I think there's always an attraction with somebody, but
for it to make it last. And I guess that's
applicable to anybody your own age. It's I guess what's sustainable,
you know.

Speaker 5 (12:47):
I think the truth of the matter is the things
that are our troubles have less to do with age
and more to do with just the things that bother
you about another person when you're dating them, which are
a myriad of things that it's actually not not the
age stuff. Funnily enough, it's more like she's not a
big communicator, and I'm a big communicator. I want to
talk about everything, and she's like, I'm good, yeah, I mean,

(13:08):
we don't need to talk about it.

Speaker 4 (13:09):
I'm like, well, I think we do. Yeah, right, Holland.

Speaker 1 (13:12):
And what do you attribute to having such a successful relationship, Like,
what is it about this person with you that makes
it so successful and keeps you happy, engaged and wanting
to be there every day?

Speaker 5 (13:26):
I think she's the smartest, wisest, funniest, most extraordinary person
I've ever met, So I can't imagine not being with her.

Speaker 4 (13:33):
I just can't.

Speaker 5 (13:34):
I just feel very, very lucky to be around someone
so incredibly witty and funny and smart, and I think
incredibly sexy. I find her to be the most beautiful woman.
I tell her all the time, like she's the most
beautiful woman I've ever seen, and she always will be.

Speaker 1 (13:50):
And what does she bring out in yourself?

Speaker 5 (13:53):
So I mean, this is a sort of anecdotal thing
that is sort of meaningless to anyone who isn't me, probably,
but I'm the kind of person when some thing, let's say,
I set my alarm off accidentally, my house alarm, my
first response is ago and I stay out loud. I
don't know what to do. I don't know what to do.
I don't know what to do. I don't know what
I'm doing. I don't know what I'm doing. And she's
always like, you do you do know what you're doing?
You do know what you're doing? That I'm like, I do,

(14:14):
I do know what I'm doing? And then I remember
my code and I'm able to So that's a sort.

Speaker 4 (14:18):
Of silly but a kind of.

Speaker 5 (14:20):
Very specific example of a way in which she sort
of pulls me out of my tendency to be anxious
or sort of hysterical in doubting my own capabilities. And
she's sort of constantly reminding me about how capable I am.

Speaker 1 (14:33):
I love that. That is a really kind of because
a lot of times in dynamics and relationships that are
unhealthy is a person trying to remind you that you
need them no, and that you need.

Speaker 4 (14:42):
She's constantly say to me, why are you with me?

Speaker 5 (14:44):
Why are you with me? Why are you doing this?
What are you doing? You're very strange person, she says
to me all the time, very strange that you're doing this,
And I'm like, really is it?

Speaker 4 (14:53):
I don't know.

Speaker 5 (14:55):
My mom tells me a story sometimes about a psychic
that she saw when I was very young, who said,
you're l this daughter is going to live a wildly
unconventional life.

Speaker 4 (15:03):
Wow, And I was like, do you have her number?

Speaker 5 (15:06):
I got some new questions for her, this psychic, because
it's true.

Speaker 4 (15:10):
I have lived a kind of unconventional life.

Speaker 1 (15:12):
Are you into psychic readings? Have you ever?

Speaker 5 (15:13):
I do liked them, but then I get really nervous
about what they're going to say, and then I try
to sort of like mentally will them to say what
I want them to say, as if I have that
kind of power.

Speaker 1 (15:23):
I find this to be very common. People are scared
of psychics it's like, psychics don't tell you bad things,
like that's not their business.

Speaker 5 (15:28):
I know if I have a friend who's psychic, told
them something to tell me that was going on with
me that.

Speaker 4 (15:33):
Was not great.

Speaker 1 (15:34):
What Yeah, it's true your name specifically, like well, like.

Speaker 5 (15:38):
She showed her my picture, this Russian psychic who like
reads the bottom of coffee grounds and things, and she's
this friend of mine has been going to her forever,
and she's like, she's always right.

Speaker 4 (15:48):
She predicted all this stuff about the pandemic before it happened.

Speaker 5 (15:51):
She was in twenty twenty, it is going to be
the year of mass death and it's going to be
this wild thing.

Speaker 4 (15:56):
And we were all like, what what are you talking about?

Speaker 1 (16:00):
And I better keep smoking.

Speaker 4 (16:03):
Smoke whenever I am trying to communicate, Like.

Speaker 1 (16:05):
Or you're driving an eighteen wheeler like you did when
you came in with your steering wheels.

Speaker 4 (16:09):
I was like, when I was driving here, so ridiculous.

Speaker 1 (16:12):
Now when you're on set, are you are you somebody
who second guesses your performance? Because my god, yes, yeah,
because you see you strike me as someone who's constantly
second guessing herself.

Speaker 6 (16:22):
I do.

Speaker 1 (16:22):
And you don't really understand your own gravitas.

Speaker 4 (16:24):
What is it that makes you think that, because I mean.

Speaker 1 (16:26):
I've just been around you and like like you're a
little in a great way. I like it. I'm a
little what you're just like a little bit wacky. I remember,
this is the first time I met Sarah. This is
that's the first time I met Sarah. I was doing
my very first talk show, Chelsea Lately, and I got
a letter, a note from Sarah saying who do I

(16:48):
have to fuck to get on this show? And I
was like, oh god, oh no, you sent me a
video a video yes, and we played it on the show,
and then of course we had you on the show.
And that actually another very very moving thing you did.
I thank goodness. I just remember this is. I was
in the hospital for something a couple of years ago
and you sent me the sweetest DM saying I had

(17:09):
that heart thing that I've talked about. And she was like,
you know, you sent me a very sweet DM and said,
you know, I'm very concerned about you. Are you okay?
I want to make sure you're okay because I don't
talk to you that often. Even though I always admire
you from Afar always, I adore you and everybody does,
just so you know, in case you were wondering, everybody

(17:29):
loves you. Well, that's nice, So take it on set.
What is your story?

Speaker 5 (17:34):
I think I'm I'm very doubtful. I don't have a
lot of confidence in my abilities. It's changing as I've
gotten older.

Speaker 4 (17:41):
Do I have Chris Jenner here?

Speaker 1 (17:43):
Is it like? No?

Speaker 7 (17:44):
No?

Speaker 1 (17:44):
I actually yes, there's a striking similarity between you and
Chris Jenner, and there always has been. That's exactly what
I was thinking when you've.

Speaker 4 (17:51):
Walked sometimes I'm like, is it justin Bieber?

Speaker 1 (17:54):
It's more like justin Bieber? Yeah, more like Ellen. Actually
you kind of has your giving off Ellen hare vibe.
I mean it's a different color, but you know, I
mean you're both lesbians. So there you go. All right,
I guess that's all you need to have in comment. Sorry,
I'm sorry about our guests. I didn't know she was
going to be such a live water two hot messes
sitting right here.

Speaker 2 (18:14):
I was telling Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (18:16):
I was like, I just know you from your roles,
which are all very serious, including by the way, Studio sixty.

Speaker 2 (18:21):
I was the person that watched it.

Speaker 1 (18:22):
You were the one person I watched Studio sixty, thank.

Speaker 4 (18:25):
You for watching.

Speaker 2 (18:25):
But I you know, and doing research for this episode,
I was like, wow, you are like a tremendous, wonderful
goofball and I was delighted and I'm so glad it's
paying off.

Speaker 4 (18:34):
I guess I'm wacky.

Speaker 5 (18:35):
Yeah, you are wacky totally that like wacky, Like you're wacky.

Speaker 1 (18:39):
Onto're like, this is this shit? Wacky's great? Will you
to be? You want to be nice? You know what
I hate when people say, oh, she was really nice
or he was nice? I go, what does that fucking mean?

Speaker 4 (18:48):
Doesn't mean an nice?

Speaker 1 (18:49):
This is not a descriptor. That just is saying that
they're boring or that that's not being more compelling to say,
you know, wacky's fun. That's positive. It's that beat. But
back to your acting. Yes, I get with Ryan Murphy.
You do tons of stuff with Ryan, right, So how
does he deal with you? I guess is the question.

Speaker 5 (19:06):
I think he found a way to just throw shit
at me that I was find challenging, just to kind
of keep me from combusting. I guess the harder it
is and the more I don't know how to do it,
the more excited I get. Like the Linda Trip thing
was the thing I'm the most proud of that I've
ever done. Nobody really watched it, and nobody really cared,
which was fine.

Speaker 4 (19:24):
But it's the greatest work I've ever done.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
Okay, I did not watch that one. What was the
Linda Trip thing? I'll watch it now. I want to
see you, but well, I know I don't have to, kid.
I want to see you play Linda Trip. I want
to see that physical transformation because you didn't go out
there with your own face.

Speaker 4 (19:41):
It was so crazy. I did all this wild, wild wreck.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
Did you get to spend time with Monica Lewinsky?

Speaker 4 (19:46):
I did.

Speaker 1 (19:46):
She's a pleasure.

Speaker 4 (19:47):
She's a pleasure.

Speaker 1 (19:48):
Oh yeah. People don't say that enough about Monica Lewinsky,
so I'd like to make sure we're on record saying right,
she's great, she's fucking cool, she's fun, and she's a
great girl whose life could have been a disaster. That's right,
and it was probably for a little bit of time.

Speaker 5 (20:02):
But now she's just as extraordinarily good hair you yeah, well,
she's Jewish.

Speaker 1 (20:07):
A lot of Jewish girls have good hair. I'm only
half Jewish, so that's why I'm constantly balding and I
have no not anymore because I do this hair treatment
called hark Lincoln. Have you heard of this no? So yeah,
if you can see I have like it lowers your hairline.
So now I have more hair than I know what
to do with because I put this treatment in twice
a night and it makes because I'm very fair. So

(20:28):
you know, fair hair, I guess gets their Yeah, fair hair,
fair hair, do care, But what do you lower?

Speaker 5 (20:34):
A lot of people have like trelesist to get that like,
nobody wants it to start hair like it.

Speaker 1 (20:37):
Has new growth that comes in lower. I know that's
new because women their hair. You because I'm fucking telling you.
But I look at me, Are you look at me? Now?

Speaker 4 (20:46):
I'm Linda Tripp Manica Monica. This is I talked when
I did it at this I talked about it. That's
how I talked. I did a different voice and everything
with Linda. Yeah.

Speaker 1 (20:57):
Yeah, No, you're very talented. I know that for sure.
I was reading in your bio that you're scared of clowns, sharks, bees,
and many holes in the same place.

Speaker 4 (21:09):
Tripeophobia or tripophobia.

Speaker 5 (21:10):
Like so for example, what's that game called where you
throw those fucking way.

Speaker 1 (21:14):
Yeah, the max into a hole. Yeah, like corn hole exactly.
I knew it was a name I don't like.

Speaker 5 (21:21):
I don't enjoy corn hole either, But that doesn't bother
me because there's space between the holes. I don't like
when the holes are.

Speaker 1 (21:26):
Like what about connect for?

Speaker 4 (21:27):
Is that of that fine?

Speaker 5 (21:28):
That's fine because they're all the same shape. So think
about like.

Speaker 4 (21:32):
A natural coral reef makes me want to vomit.

Speaker 1 (21:34):
Oh, I see what you're saying, all of them together
Like wow, that is a weird thing to be or.

Speaker 5 (21:39):
Like like if I think about it gives me the heat.

Speaker 1 (21:42):
What about snakes?

Speaker 4 (21:43):
I don't mind them.

Speaker 1 (21:44):
I like them really.

Speaker 4 (21:45):
Oh, I've done a lot of snake work.

Speaker 5 (21:47):
I have a picture of me with an albino Boa
constrictor around my neck.

Speaker 1 (21:49):
It was like, yeah, yeah, I don't I'm really I
have a phobia.

Speaker 4 (21:54):
Really you don't like this.

Speaker 1 (21:56):
I don't like the flither, the movement there. I don't
like that they're jumping now.

Speaker 4 (22:01):
Oh I don't know about the jumping.

Speaker 1 (22:02):
Oh yeah, they're jumping. Jump. Oh there was a snake
that's that slid across a lake and then jumped onto
someone's paddle board from Nope, yeah, that jump and they
climb up things that you don't think that they can climb.

Speaker 4 (22:14):
I don't like that, tr but I have done some
acting with some snakes and I liked it.

Speaker 1 (22:18):
But you're scared of clowns.

Speaker 4 (22:19):
I don't like a clown.

Speaker 5 (22:20):
You don't meaning like a Poultergeist cloud with Poltergeist, the
one where there was a clown under the bed? Where
was the one where there was a clown in the corner?
It was like under the bed.

Speaker 1 (22:28):
I don't have a bad clown or like a bad clown.

Speaker 4 (22:30):
I don't.

Speaker 5 (22:31):
I think they're creepy. I understand the clown thing. I
don't like it.

Speaker 1 (22:33):
I'm sure you playing a clown you feel Do you
feel like that's something that could happen?

Speaker 5 (22:45):
I do, actually, but I just don't know why. That
really makes me laugh. I could see you, like the
great compliment of the day. I could see you playing
a clown.

Speaker 1 (22:53):
What are you working on now? By the way, you're
not doing anything right now.

Speaker 5 (22:56):
I've taken it. I took a break after the Linda
Tripp thing. It was when the hardest things I've ever
done was it. Yeah, I gained a lot of weight
and that was an interesting experience. My body didn't respond
well to that hormonally. Really, yeah, sort of put me
into prepair. Its just while from gaining the weight, from
gaining and losing.

Speaker 4 (23:14):
So who's calling? Who cares?

Speaker 1 (23:16):
I don't know. I hate this fucking Apple Watch, you
know why? Because I don't need these alerts. All it
has is I can't figure out how to put it
on a regular there we go, can't. I can't figure
out how to put it on a regular time frame either,
so that I can just see the time. All it
shows me is in the middle of a workout that
I haven't been in for like three days, and then
it has a compass.

Speaker 4 (23:35):
Somebody's got to figure this out for you. Well I wait.

Speaker 1 (23:38):
I mean, of course somebody does, and I just haven't
gotten around to it yet. But I'm walking around Manhattan yesterday,
walking along, walking along, and it just tells me north
by northeast. I'm like, you think I give a shit
about my directionals. I don't know what fucking time it is.

Speaker 4 (23:51):
Yeah, what were you doing in New York?

Speaker 1 (23:53):
I was on tour. So, yeah, you guys have to
go to my show in October. I'm doing two nights
at the Pantages. All of it.

Speaker 4 (23:58):
I love that.

Speaker 1 (23:59):
Okay, back to you. I'm interested in what happens to
the body. I find that interesting on the exterior and interior.
So how much weight did you put on and how
did you do that?

Speaker 5 (24:10):
I just ate a shit on a food, bad food,
bad food. Yeah yeah, yeah yeah, And then I had
gained it all. And then the pen were supposed to
start shooting March of twenty twenty. Then the pandemic happened.
We didn't shoot for eight months, and then I lost
some of it, and then we didn't know when we
were shooting, and they were like, now we're going you
need to gain it back. And so it was a
little bit of that, and then we shot for almost
eleven months, so it was like I had to maintain
that for a long.

Speaker 4 (24:29):
So it was almost two years. My body was like,
what are we doing? The new normal?

Speaker 1 (24:35):
Cool?

Speaker 5 (24:36):
But then it wasn't, and you know, it just it
was I think very hard on your on my hormone story.

Speaker 3 (24:42):
I do want to jump in really quick. We have
a caller who is on your weight to therapy in
a few minutes.

Speaker 5 (24:48):
So okay, oh oh oh, all right, forget about get
about my perimenopausal.

Speaker 1 (24:52):
We're going to get back to that, or we won't.
I'll tell you that we're going to take a quick
break and we'll be right back to get to our
first caller. I'm very I'm very sorry. Why about this
interview so far? Yeah, me too, Okay, and we're back.

Speaker 2 (25:07):
We are back.

Speaker 3 (25:09):
We're pausing prymnopause and we're going to talk really quickly
to And she's thirty eight.

Speaker 2 (25:15):
Dear Chelsea.

Speaker 3 (25:16):
I'm living a successful, fulfilling and happy life except for
the fact that I'm single and haven't been in a
long term relationship for over ten years for a plethora
of reasons. Last year, I moved to a small town
in the Midwest to be close to my family and
got an epic job as an executive chef at a nonprofit.

Speaker 2 (25:34):
I love my job.

Speaker 3 (25:35):
I just bought a place in the city that I
absolutely adore, and I'm making wonderful friends here. Of course,
I'm on the apps and I swipe daily. I flirt
with guys in public and have told all my people
here that I'm in search of a man who will
exceed my expectations. But I've been told that I have
high standards and am very picky by my friends. However,
I just think I deserve the best and won't settle

(25:56):
for someone who does not fit my life. I need
advice from too strong in dependant women help. Cheers and
Hi ed Hi Anne, Hi.

Speaker 1 (26:05):
This is our special guest, Sarah.

Speaker 6 (26:06):
Hi, Hi Sarah. How are you.

Speaker 4 (26:09):
I'm very well, thank you?

Speaker 1 (26:10):
How are you?

Speaker 6 (26:10):
Very nice to meet you.

Speaker 4 (26:11):
Nice to meet you as well.

Speaker 1 (26:13):
Well. First of all, I love having high standards. I
think that is a good thing to have in life.
But sometimes you can have high standards that preclude you
from being open minded and enough to let the right
people in.

Speaker 6 (26:24):
Right.

Speaker 7 (26:24):
Yes, I've been on the apps forever and those are
just not a fun experience. They're good for one night ers,
you know, like when you want to get something fun.

Speaker 4 (26:37):
But I like that and you want to get something fun.

Speaker 7 (26:42):
And dating here in the area is it's pretty conservative
and I am not. There's not very many people like
me here. I mean, I've traveled the world. I've been
a seven continents, thirty countries. I've seen the world, and
I'm looking for someone that has the same quality of
life is me.

Speaker 4 (27:01):
Are you at all willing to open up beyond the
area where you're living?

Speaker 7 (27:05):
So I have thought about that. But I recently took
a job about a year ago and bought a condo,
so I'd like to stay here for a little bit longer.
I'm happy to look outside, even out of the country,
but I need to stay here for at least five
more years.

Speaker 1 (27:23):
But you can still date somebody long distance, I think,
is what Sarah said.

Speaker 4 (27:26):
What I'm wondering is.

Speaker 5 (27:27):
Like if you widen the pool, if you know that
where you live there's a sort of contained, like a
limited in terms of the possibility of meeting someone that
shares your values or is interested in the things that
you're interested in. I wonder if like widening the pool
a little bit, it doesn't. I mean, I know many
people who have started relationships long distance that then you

(27:47):
make a change later when the time when it becomes
clear that you don't want to live without one another,
you become more willing to do that. But I think
sometimes you might have to, You might have to expand
a little beyond what's what's right in a little radius
for you there.

Speaker 7 (28:00):
Okay, Yeah, because I've looked into Chicago, which has much
more of my stuff.

Speaker 4 (28:05):
Gentlemen, Yeah, a nice style of gentlemen.

Speaker 7 (28:09):
Where do you live in the Quad Cities, so Illinois,
Iowa near Davenport.

Speaker 1 (28:14):
I don't know what that means. I know, quad cities.
I've never heard that expression, but.

Speaker 5 (28:18):
Heard the Twin Cities Illinois and Iowa, about two hours
west of Chicago.

Speaker 1 (28:24):
Okay, okay, So listen, you definitely need to open up
your pool because two hours is not even long distance.
I mean, that's like many distance I've dated guys overseas.
That's kind of the relationship I prefer, quite frankly, I.

Speaker 6 (28:35):
Think I'm will too.

Speaker 1 (28:36):
Yeah. And also when you are dating somebody, I think
you need to if you have very high standards. I
have very high standards for myself as well, and sometimes
our standards not that they shouldn't be high, they absolutely should.
But sometimes you have judgments about people that you need
to pare down because it limits who you're allowing yourself
to let in. And sometimes being on one date or

(28:57):
one interaction with a person is not enough.

Speaker 4 (29:00):
I agree with this completely.

Speaker 5 (29:01):
And I also wonder is there's some part of you
that is keeping it narrow in terms of what you're
willing or interested in because you're scared to maybe have
the relationship in the first place.

Speaker 4 (29:14):
Do you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (29:15):
Sometimes we create these stories of like it has to
look like this, and this is what I mean. You
just said I have to be here for the next
five years, and it's like you've got all this stuff
kind of planned and figured out, which doesn't leave a
lot of elasticity or room for anyone to sort of
come inside that. Even mentally for yourself. It seems like
you've got a plan about how you want it to be,
and that means somebody, anyone's got to come into it
in an exact right way or you're not interested. And

(29:37):
I feel like sometimes taking you know, it's like a
horse with blinders on. You got to kind of take
them off and just you might notice somebody near you,
closer to you than you may imagine, or even further away,
but that you kind of need to sometimes question why
you're making it so rigid in the first place, because
there may be a deeper reason why doing that. Abbit
that might make it a little clearer to you, you know.

Speaker 6 (30:00):
Yeah, that's super helpful.

Speaker 7 (30:02):
Yeah. I have always had very limited standards, like oh
I can't do that, I can't date because of.

Speaker 1 (30:08):
X y Z, I can't do like give us some
examples what are the things that are deal breakers in
your mind?

Speaker 6 (30:13):
A Republican, I support.

Speaker 4 (30:17):
I support.

Speaker 1 (30:18):
I'm with you on that one.

Speaker 6 (30:20):
So I really like a foodie.

Speaker 7 (30:22):
I'm a chef, so having to explain what different ingredients
or cuisines are it's very frustrating. But I guess I
could open myself up to that. So, like, I get
a foodie would be nice, but I don't have many
deal breakers.

Speaker 1 (30:35):
That's okay, fine, Then let's go in the opposite direction.
What are the things that you're looking for?

Speaker 7 (30:40):
Trustworthy kind a foodie, someone who's traveled the world and
seen not maybe as many countries as me, but like
it's curious and open to new cultural experiences. I prefer
a person of color, and that's hard to find here
in porn Iowa.

Speaker 1 (30:56):
Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like it's going to be
a tall order for Iowa.

Speaker 7 (31:03):
So that's why I'm like, I have looked out in Chicago,
but yeah, it's just.

Speaker 1 (31:08):
Not What can I ask you? What's your work schedule? Like,
do you work during the week or do you work
on the weekends. What's your situation?

Speaker 7 (31:15):
So I work during the week and I have Sunday
Mondays off.

Speaker 1 (31:19):
Okay, that's a tricky night to go out to bars.
I guess on a Sunday night in Chicago. I was
going to say to a lot some of your time
to like commit to spending a certain amount of time
in a city where you're going to meet someone of
color that meets these requirements. I have no doubt there's
somebody for you in Chicago, correct, Like that is a
huge city filled with tons of different types of people.
So I think that if there's a way you could
kind of commit your time to actually actively going to

(31:41):
these cities and on apps are good. You know, you
can definitely cast a wider net in terms of like
your geographical location, but you should also spend more time
in these play two hours is not a big deal.
You can go spend the night there, get a cheap
hotel room, you know, and like go out and experience
the night life there and like go out to different restaurants,
go to the places that you would be attracted to,

(32:04):
or sign up for some sort of like group activity,
like make it a two day adventure that you have
Sunday and Mondays off, so you're doing like something outdoorsy.
You're going to a nice restaurant, you know, just start
cultivating different things that that aren't available in your city,
because you have a huge advantage that a big city
like that is so close to you.

Speaker 6 (32:22):
Right.

Speaker 5 (32:23):
And also, maybe instead of a person who has done
all the traveling, what about a person who's just incredibly
interested in doing it, a person that you could actually
show some of, you know, the things you've learned and
you know, discovered and places that are your favorite places
in the world, people that might be really interested in
doing it who don't necessarily have to meet. You know,
it's a pretty rare, wonderful thing to be able to
have traveled as much as you have, and maybe taking

(32:45):
a little bit of the curiosity component and the willingness
and desire to do it or willingness desire to learn
about food, and you know, it seems to me like
it could be more about a desire to do so
rather than a person who already checks all of the boxes.

Speaker 6 (32:58):
That's super helpful.

Speaker 1 (33:00):
What about anyone in your restaurant. Do you work in
a restaurant?

Speaker 6 (33:02):
I do?

Speaker 1 (33:03):
What about any of the people you work with.

Speaker 6 (33:05):
So there's a.

Speaker 7 (33:06):
Team of four of us and we're all women.

Speaker 4 (33:08):
Oh okay, listen, baby, let me tell you something man, we.

Speaker 1 (33:11):
Have a lesbian here, and we have probably a potential
lesbian here.

Speaker 5 (33:15):
Everybody's a lesbian. I hate to break it too, all
of you.

Speaker 7 (33:18):
I mean, if I could, I absolutely would like my
front of house manager.

Speaker 6 (33:23):
She's sexy as hell. But we both like the D, so.

Speaker 1 (33:27):
Well, why but if you both like the D, hey
get it, get a D.

Speaker 4 (33:30):
You can share?

Speaker 1 (33:31):
Why not? Why not? Why not experiment with her? If
you're both like, if that that's it? You never know?
You could?

Speaker 5 (33:38):
You doesn't want it, but you know, and doesn't look
that interested. She says no with a little stinky face.

Speaker 1 (33:43):
You can get the D. By the way, without the woman.

Speaker 6 (33:46):
You know, that's right weight of a ban on you.

Speaker 1 (33:49):
I know, I know, I know what you're talking about.
But that's like a fissure for it. Have you been
with men?

Speaker 4 (33:54):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (33:55):
Yeah, oh yeah, no wonder all lesbians have been with men?
And then they come they're like, forget get married.

Speaker 4 (34:00):
You're a great man. Yeah yeah, yeah, great man.

Speaker 1 (34:03):
Anyway, cast a wider net. Are there any other big
cities within two hours of you?

Speaker 5 (34:08):
Besides Chicago's the US map look like it's so fun
to like move What happens.

Speaker 1 (34:13):
If you go left? Left?

Speaker 4 (34:15):
Or right or down or up.

Speaker 6 (34:18):
I can't cast a wider net. That is absolutely.

Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, And also give people the benefit of a doubt
if you like, if you go on a date and
somebody's really gross and they turn you off, fine, But
if you go on a date and it was just
eh and there's really nothing there that repulsed you or
you just found it kind of boring, I think you
should give those dates a second chance. Because a lot
of people are very nervous on their first interaction with somebody,
you know, So I think like you should really just

(34:44):
also give yourself a break, you know what I mean.
I think you should think about all of this moving
forward as expansion. Don't say no, open.

Speaker 2 (34:51):
Up, Yes, wider net.

Speaker 4 (34:53):
It goes with everything, the.

Speaker 1 (34:56):
Widening of the legs, all of it, it comes together.
I'm so sorry to be so crass, but you know,
we're all friends here, so yeah, but I mean, just
do that, practice it and make an event out of it.
Like seriously, go to Chicago on your day's off for
like a couple times a month. Go get a hotel room,
go there and spend time there so that you can
actually get FaceTime with people. You never know what the

(35:17):
fuck's gonna happen? Or how you're going to meet somebody?

Speaker 6 (35:20):
Got it?

Speaker 4 (35:21):
Okay?

Speaker 1 (35:21):
Okay, report back when you do get penetration.

Speaker 2 (35:24):
We go to therapy, go go.

Speaker 1 (35:28):
Okay, sorry, tell your therapist. I said, what up? Okay,
So nice to meet you too. My friend once said
to me, she's like, your standards are so high, and
I go, I think they can be I said, why
would they be low? And she was like, well, I
just thank you your expectations. I'm like, but I'm I'm

(35:50):
not desperate, So if I don't have someone to meet
my expectations, then myself. Yeah to me, Now, I have
a question about being with a woman.

Speaker 5 (35:59):
Do you You're like, that's fascinating, Well, no, it's about
about vagina.

Speaker 1 (36:03):
I feel like being with a woman. I'm reading this
book and there's this big lesbian hot scene in this book,
right and they're describing this their love making, and I'm like, oh,
this is totally hot. Like you know, it wasn't like
I wasn't a gay person, you know, Like I remember
being younger and reading about things that I wasn't comfortable
with and almost kind of like rebuffing it, being like ooh,
and I realized my own reaction. I was like, oh,

(36:24):
this is hot, and I go I think I understand.
I feel like being with another woman would make you
a lot less self conscious about your body issues.

Speaker 4 (36:33):
For me, not so much.

Speaker 5 (36:35):
Still, I still because at the end of the day,
it's still the fundamental truth is that you're still attracted
to the person. You still have this normal, you know,
human desire to be wanted and to have everybody find
you appealing in those moments. And just because they have
what you have doesn't mean that they're not or that
you're you know what I mean, that you're not Like.

Speaker 4 (36:55):
Is mine weird? You know what I mean?

Speaker 1 (36:57):
Right?

Speaker 4 (36:57):
I always wonder if mine is weird?

Speaker 1 (36:58):
Right, I think everyone wonders if there's is weird. But
I'm thinking in terms of like oh cellulate and like
r flab and stuff like that. Like with a man,
I do find myself making sure my body's in check
like I want. And I was thinking about that when
I was reading this book. I was thinking, Oh, I
wonder if that is like something that I would feel
with another woman, because I've been with women sexually and

(37:20):
I've never felt self conscious. Yeah, but in like you know,
manajo TOOI or something not like one on one right.

Speaker 4 (37:26):
And you didn't feel self conscious.

Speaker 1 (37:27):
No. I liked the liberation of it because it was
another woman's body. It's like you have this, I have this.
There was something very liberating about it.

Speaker 4 (37:35):
I understand that it's just for me.

Speaker 5 (37:36):
I think psychologically it was my body issues were just
bigger than that.

Speaker 1 (37:42):
Yeah, I think your issues are bigger, right in general?
In generally, in.

Speaker 4 (37:48):
General issues, it's true.

Speaker 1 (37:50):
Okay, Well, moving on from that topic, Catherine, what do
we have next?

Speaker 3 (37:54):
Well, next we're going to talk to Alyssa, and Alessa
has a pretty tough question.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
Try and act serious, okay for this focus hy.

Speaker 2 (38:08):
Subject line is my best friend died?

Speaker 3 (38:11):
Bummer? I know, Alyssa says, Dear Chelsea. I'm thirty one
and I live in Little Rock, Arkansas. I'm a hairstylist
and spent the last seven years working in a salon
with my best friend, my hetero life partner, my soulmate. However,
almost a year ago, she died tragically in a car accident.

Speaker 2 (38:30):
I'm not someone who.

Speaker 3 (38:31):
Makes friends easily or keeps friends for very long, but
Ali was the exception to that. She was truly my person.
I'm struggling not only with just missing her, but miss
having that female friendship. I don't have any friends, and
I'm terrified to try and make new ones. Any advice
on how to make new friends and maybe some advice
on dealing with the loss of your very favorite person
on Earth, Thanks so much, Alyssa.

Speaker 1 (38:53):
Hi, Lissa, Lissa, Hi.

Speaker 4 (38:56):
Hi.

Speaker 1 (38:56):
We have Sarah Paulson today as you're our special guest.

Speaker 6 (39:00):
Oh my god, Hi Sarah, Hi, how are you. I'm
doing good.

Speaker 5 (39:04):
I'm so so sorry to hear about what you're struggling with.
That sounds really hard you Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 6 (39:11):
It sucks.

Speaker 1 (39:12):
When did this happen?

Speaker 8 (39:14):
So? Ali died in November twenty twenty one, so it'll
be two years in November.

Speaker 1 (39:19):
Okay, And what's your situation like with your work, your life? Like,
break it down for us, tell us a little bit
about yourself.

Speaker 8 (39:27):
So I work in a private studio now, so it's
just me by myself. I just didn't really feel like
I could go back to working in a salon again
with other stylists, And work has been really crazy hard,
just because so much of our friendship was like intertwined
in doing hair, because we were both hair stylists and

(39:49):
so like I'm doing okay, but it's just I literally thought, oh,
we're going to like grow old together, like oh, we're
going to outlive our spouses and be golden girls, you know,
retired and lived together one day. And now I'm like, oh,
that's not happening, Like none of that that I had
in my head is happening. And then I'm like, oh,
I have to find a new friend, Like I have

(40:09):
to find a new best friend.

Speaker 6 (40:10):
I don't want to do that.

Speaker 8 (40:12):
So it's just a lot like literally my entire trajectory
of my life has changed. Yeah, do you have a
spouse longtime boyfriend?

Speaker 6 (40:21):
We're not married.

Speaker 1 (40:21):
Okay, Well that's good. You have somebody, right, yes, Yeah.

Speaker 8 (40:24):
He's super super wonderful and supportive and great, and I
have like a really good support system. It's just I've
just never been good at making friends and keeping friends,
and I just felt like with Ali, it was like, oh,
this is my person, Like I found my person. This

(40:45):
is like the one person I can say the gnarliest
craziest shit too, and her not I think it's like
weird or crazy or anything. And it's just really difficult
to imagine my life without that. And then also I'm
so terrified to try to find another best friend like that.

(41:06):
And I know, like no one's ever going to replace Ali.

Speaker 4 (41:09):
But I don't know when you say it's hard for
you to keep friends, how so meaning.

Speaker 6 (41:15):
You know, I don't know if it's my I don't
know if my pickers broken.

Speaker 8 (41:19):
You know, some people pick really bad partners, and I
think that I don't know if I just picked really
shitty friends in the past, or if it's just life circumstances.
I just feel like every like really good close friend
that I've ever had has like moved away, you know,
in childhood or something like that, or I just never
got those core friendships that a lot of my friends have,

(41:43):
you know, like not close with anyone that I grew
up with or anything like that anymore. So I think
I just have a lot of anxiety about forming new friendships,
and so that kind of keeps me from reaching out
to people. And I'm like the most joke with everyone
all the time that I'm the most like introverted stylist, honar.

(42:05):
I'm so good at work, you know, I can talk
all day, and then if I see my clients at
the grocery store, I'm like, uh.

Speaker 1 (42:13):
That's a lot of people. A lot of people feel
that way, even extroverted people feel that way.

Speaker 6 (42:19):
Yeah, it's just I don't know.

Speaker 8 (42:20):
When you're out of that like controlled environment, it's like,
wait what, I don't know how to do this, So
I've just never been very.

Speaker 6 (42:27):
Good at it.

Speaker 1 (42:28):
Okay, Well, let me say one thing. You have a
long term, successful romantic relationship, so you are good at relationships.
You had a best friend forever that passed away unfortunately,
which is horrifying and terrible and you will feel that
grief for a very long time. But that is representative
of another successful relationship that you have. So this narrative

(42:49):
that you have in your head about not being good
at making friends isn't true. It's your past and it's
your childhood. Like it's not even true.

Speaker 4 (42:59):
You weren't even who you are today then, so it's
actually not applicable.

Speaker 1 (43:02):
Yeah, Like you have this the story that you're telling yourself,
and it's like, you have a long term romantic relationship
who's a wonderful guy. Like that says it right there
that you're good at relationships. You're probably a one on
one person, You're not a group friend group person, right,
Is that how you would describe yourself. So I think
you have to really you have a lot of work
to do about changing that narrative for yourself, because the

(43:24):
whole world is filled with possibilities. You sequestering yourself and
working alone it's not necessarily the right move, because how
did you meet your old best friend?

Speaker 6 (43:36):
I've got a job a hair salon, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 (43:39):
So I really think it's important to get yourself back
in an environment that at least is bringing new people
in and out of your life, you know, on a
professional level. I think it is important to be in
a hair salon with other stylists, with people, customers coming
in and out all day, and setting yourself up for
success in that way. For sure. I think work alone

(44:00):
isn't going to be the answer. That's not how you're
going to meet somebody, you know what I mean.

Speaker 5 (44:03):
And it was happenstance that you walked into that salon anyway,
and that that person happened to be your person, So
the odds of something like that happening again are are
significantly higher if you're allowing those things to happen, you know.

Speaker 3 (44:15):
Right, Yeah, And also being in an environment like a
salon where you are sort of forced to be around
the same people every day. You can form relationships that
are more casual and you might find someone who you
have obviously maybe not the same bond that you had
with Ali, but a different and you know, successful bond
with right.

Speaker 1 (44:34):
And there's ways to honor your like are you in therapy?
Have you been to a therapist?

Speaker 5 (44:38):
Yes?

Speaker 1 (44:38):
Okay, there are ways to honor that friendship too, you
know what I mean. Like, you can kind of use
that friendship as a motivating factor. You can have her up,
you know, a picture of her up at your what's
it called your little station, right? Is that what it's
called a station at a slant right, Like, as a
motivating factor to remind you what a beautiful friendship that
was and what you were capable of having. Yeah, and
what you're looking for again, Yeah, you don't have to

(45:00):
replicate that friendship. There are so many people in this
world that have value and lend value to our lives.
And when we kind of get narrow because of something
that's happened to us, we don't expand we just start
to shut down and we're like, oh, I trust this
person and that person and I'm not good at this
I'm not good at that, And the reality is you
could be great at all of these things. It's just

(45:21):
your mindset. And I think you have to get into
a different headspace, you know, like there's a time for grieving,
there's a time for reaping and sewing, like there's a
time for you to start investing in yourself again, because
that's what your best friend would want for you.

Speaker 4 (45:35):
Yeah.

Speaker 5 (45:35):
I think you have to make a new relationship with
yourself too, in terms of being a friend to yourself
and doing some of this work that Chelsea's talking about,
in terms of like recalibrating that narrative and don't feed
that story anymore because it's actually not true. You have
real proof in your life of being capable of having deep, rich,
fulfilling relationships, both romantic and otherwise.

Speaker 4 (45:57):
So that is out there for you again too.

Speaker 5 (45:59):
I just but I don't think it can happen in
a little sliver of your society.

Speaker 7 (46:03):
You know.

Speaker 1 (46:04):
Does it sound like something that you can do is
go and you know, seek out a job at a salon.

Speaker 6 (46:10):
Honestly, I don't know.

Speaker 8 (46:12):
I don't know.

Speaker 1 (46:13):
I just.

Speaker 7 (46:15):
Hairstylists.

Speaker 8 (46:16):
I'm going to be brutally honest, most hairstylists are like
my least favorite type of people.

Speaker 1 (46:23):
I know. But think about what you're saying. You met
your best friend as a hairstylist, and you're judging the
rest of them like they're not gonna I know it's
so stupid, But they're not all like that. They're not
all that.

Speaker 8 (46:35):
But I think a lot of it also has to
do with you know, I live in a predominantly conservative state.
Lots of conservative hairstylist. Girl, he's out there, and so
I love my little space and my vibe of my
studio because I have my own little studio and it's
like perfectly representative of me and I love it there.

(46:56):
So it'd be really hard for me to step away
from that into a salon. But I do think what
you're saying is absolutely the thing that I need to do.
I just don't know if I need to do it
like in a work setting.

Speaker 1 (47:07):
Okay, well go great. Then think of other ways that
you can get out there. There's other like minded people
in Little Rock, Arkansas. I know it's a conservative place,
but you will find your people. You can find your people.
What about couple relationships? Do you guys have couples? You
hang out with at all.

Speaker 4 (47:21):
Not really.

Speaker 6 (47:21):
My boyfriend is a thirty five year old skateboarder.

Speaker 4 (47:25):
So forgot.

Speaker 1 (47:26):
I mean he has a job. He has Okay, what
about in your space, in your salon space, do you
have room to hire another stylist or anything like that,
or do you have any employee?

Speaker 8 (47:36):
Probably I have been doing here for like ten years,
so I have thought about taking on like an assistant
or something like that to try to teach someone else
kind of just the things that I've learned, So that
could be an option.

Speaker 1 (47:47):
Yeah, or hiring another stylist, And that way you get
to choose, Like if there is some conservative person you
don't want around, then you can choose who's come in.
I mean, that's a nice way to meet somebody. But
there are millions of other ways. You can join a
rock climbing group, you can like, what are you into?
What do you do? Do you go hiking? Do you
like to what else happens in little Rock? Is there
a body of water there?

Speaker 6 (48:09):
There is? There are lots of bodies of water, Okay, great?

Speaker 1 (48:12):
Do you like to sail? Do you like to go
river rafting?

Speaker 5 (48:15):
Like?

Speaker 1 (48:15):
There's plenty of shit where you can join clubs and
I know it sounds like, oh, well, I don't need
to join a club to meet people. Yeah, you fucking do?

Speaker 5 (48:24):
You?

Speaker 6 (48:24):
Literally you do.

Speaker 1 (48:25):
You're calling us figuring out how to get a friend?
Do you know what I mean? And you have to
put yourself out there in ways that don't seem natural
to you in order to attract something different and attract
something new. Because you're capable of having a great friend,
you're just grieving the one that you lost and you
think she's irreplaceable, which she probably is, but that doesn't
mean there's not another great friend out there, or even

(48:45):
more than one great friend out there. How great would
it be to find a group of girls that you
actually vibe with, that believe in the same stuff you know,
and it's two or three girls like, that's a possibility too.

Speaker 5 (48:56):
I had a therapist one time say to me when
I was thinking about dating and I wasn't sure if
I wanted to dat a man, I wasn't sure if
I wanted to date a woman. I wasn't sure what
I wanted to do. And she said to me, you know,
you can't figure this out hypothetically. You can't figure it
out in your living room. You have to go out
into the world and have some experiences, and those experiences
are going to like direct you, you know, and you're
going to get more information that's going to concretize something

(49:19):
that you may be feeling.

Speaker 1 (49:20):
You know, you needize, you need to Finally, finally the
clown comes up with a good word or like a
book club. Are you in reading? Make it book club?

Speaker 4 (49:32):
Yeah?

Speaker 1 (49:32):
Book clubs are cool. At least they're going to be
smart and fucking reading.

Speaker 5 (49:36):
You know.

Speaker 6 (49:36):
Yeah, that's a good thought.

Speaker 5 (49:39):
Should think about things that move you, that you get
excited by and seeing seeing if there's something.

Speaker 1 (49:43):
Or you can drive. You know, if you're into like
are you you said you don't like to be around
conservative people. Are you into politics? You could join like
a political group that like gets out the vote or
something like that, and.

Speaker 5 (49:53):
You'll automatically meet people who have more of a sensibility.

Speaker 6 (49:56):
Okay, okay, I can do these things.

Speaker 5 (49:58):
I can do that.

Speaker 2 (49:59):
Yeah, I think.

Speaker 3 (50:00):
Bottom line, you gotta treat friendship when you're looking for
a friend a little bit like dating.

Speaker 2 (50:06):
It's a numbers game.

Speaker 7 (50:07):
You know.

Speaker 2 (50:07):
The more you put yourself out.

Speaker 3 (50:08):
There, the more individual situations you put yourself in, the
more people you meet, the more likely you are to
find sort of the one or the two or three.

Speaker 1 (50:16):
Right, there's a way for you to localize people on
your Instagram. Don't ask me how because I don't know,
but it's it's a possibility to localize people, to find
people in Little Rock and that way, Like when you're
looking at people's Instagram profiles, I think that's a great
way to reach out to somebody or to date somebody
because you're getting a kind of a full spectrum of
what they're into and what they're not. And that's a

(50:36):
totally normal thing to reach out via Instagram. I have
tons of friends that reach out to me via Instagram,
strangers and friends.

Speaker 4 (50:43):
You know that.

Speaker 1 (50:44):
I yeah, we did. I mean that's how I booked
Sarah on the podcast. So, like, just think outside of
your comfort zone and make some actionable like take some
actionable steps where you're actually doing things that you wouldn't
normally do to meet some friends that are like minded.

Speaker 6 (51:02):
Okay, okay, you gotta do things and talk to people.

Speaker 4 (51:06):
You got a great voice and a great accent.

Speaker 1 (51:08):
Well, and also listen, I want you to just get
up every day for the next like twenty one days
and write down. I'm good at making friends. I'm so
grateful to have found new friends. Write it down like
it's already happened. I'm so grateful for these new relationships
in my life. I'm grateful for this new relationship. I'm
grateful to have met this new these all these new people.

(51:31):
Just write that down for twenty one days and there
will be a shift within you and you will be
more open. So will it into your life?

Speaker 4 (51:39):
Very good?

Speaker 1 (51:40):
Very good? Yeah, your sister just kidding.

Speaker 4 (51:44):
You seem like you change mid way through. I was like,
what's happening?

Speaker 1 (51:47):
Sorry that you have to witness arch A canery, but
we're both key.

Speaker 6 (51:51):
I'm thoroughly doing it.

Speaker 1 (51:52):
But anyway, Lissa, you're gonna be fine. And I'm so
sorry about your friend. I know that's devastating and grief
is you know. I'm so glad you're seeing somebody to
talk to about that. But just remember your bestie would
want you to be happy in making friends, you know.

Speaker 6 (52:06):
Yeah, for sure, you're right.

Speaker 1 (52:08):
Just like anyone who loves you, they want to see
you succeed.

Speaker 6 (52:11):
Yeah, okay, I can do that.

Speaker 1 (52:14):
Okay, let us know when you make some friends.

Speaker 3 (52:16):
Okay, Alissa, thanks.

Speaker 1 (52:22):
It is true though, sometimes you have really good advice.
Oh thanks, Sonny. Isn't it true? Though? Sometimes you get
such a narrative in your head about your things you've
done in the past, which who hasn't done things that
they've regretted, and you define the future by that or
your present moment by the past behavior, And it's like
everyone is capable of change and shifting.

Speaker 5 (52:42):
I also think the thing that sometimes helped you survive
as a young person, they become the real thing that's
the hindrance to you as a grown up. It's like
a little and you hold on to it because you're afraid.
You only know how to function with these sort of
things in order, and sort of holding on really tightly
to the way things used to work for yourself that
when new things start happy opening, you either dig a
little bit deeper and you refuse to let it go,

(53:03):
or you find a way to trust that you can
make different choices that. I do think the very thing
that kept you safe for made you know how to
function in the world, ends up being something that can
be constraining.

Speaker 1 (53:15):
Yeah. Brenane Brown says that like it's your teflon, it's
like your cover. That's why It's called midlife crisis because
at a certain age it stops working for you, and
usually around forty you're like, wait, the very thing that
made me so successful is the thing that's now making
me back. Yeah, tactly. So that is I think a
salient piece of advice as well. But I also think

(53:36):
when we lose someone, there's a guilt in letting go
of totally and moving on, Like people get so guilty,
like God, if I fall in love or if I'm
happy again, this is what does this mean to her? Like, well,
I was reading this book yesterday about PTSD and you know,
Vietnam vets and how they can wake up with terrible nightmares,
and it was in that body keeps the Score, Catherine, Yeah,

(53:59):
and patient was saying, oh, I can't be present for
my family and children because that means I've deserted all
of my that I was in war with and all
the soldiers who fell, like I can't disappoint them and
they're gone. So instead of valuing the people who are
in front of you, they're still hooked on that. And

(54:19):
so I think that's also something to remember, to know
that people want you to move on with your life.

Speaker 3 (54:25):
I know I when I was rereading that email after
the first time I read it, I realized is Ali
and Alyssa. And I'm like, I'm sure they were just
like two peas in a pod. But yeah, I think
that was very good advice for her. Should we take
a little break and wrap up?

Speaker 1 (54:39):
Okay, we'll take a break and then I'm gonna kick
Sarah Paulson out of here?

Speaker 4 (54:43):
Do you keep going? Do you do like others?

Speaker 5 (54:44):
No?

Speaker 1 (54:45):
No, I'm wrapped for the day. This is it?

Speaker 4 (54:46):
Wow?

Speaker 1 (54:48):
Okay, Like I said, we're gonna take a break, Okay,
and we're back. We're back. We're back with Chelsea and
saying it's already over. I don't want it to be over.
Do you have one more? Do you have one more
question to throw at us? I actually do?

Speaker 2 (55:07):
I actually have a pretty juicy one?

Speaker 1 (55:09):
Oh well, why didn't you say that?

Speaker 4 (55:11):
How about how you were gonna let us go with
a juicy one on the line?

Speaker 1 (55:14):
How dare you well, we'd like to wrap things up
in an hour to be respectful.

Speaker 3 (55:20):
Well, this question comes from Ashley's.

Speaker 4 (55:24):
That's a lot of alliteration today, it's a lot of alliteration.
They're all A's and Alyssa and Ashley.

Speaker 1 (55:32):
Ashley spelled with an L E I g H. So
you know that's the other ones we take it from.

Speaker 3 (55:38):
Dear Chelsea, love your podcast, and boy do I have
a doozy of a problem for you. I work in
entertainment and run my own company. I'm forty years old
and over the years have built a niche but profitable
client list for myself. Fifteen years ago, when I was
still very young and starting out, I had a flirtation
with one of my first clients, which turned into a
full fledged affair that went on for years. He was

(56:02):
and still is married, and so was I at the time.
This went on for so long that we both had
children with our respective partners, all while carrying on this affair.
A few years ago, I left my husband. There was
no love there for a long time, no surprise given
what I was doing, and I just couldn't do it anymore.
But after that situation resolved, I realized I no longer

(56:23):
wanted or needed the affair.

Speaker 4 (56:25):
I was having.

Speaker 3 (56:26):
It's as if the cloud of my toxic marriage was
obscuring the fact that I had long ago fallen out
of love with this other man as well, and just
hadn't realized it, so I broke it off.

Speaker 2 (56:36):
Here's the problem.

Speaker 3 (56:37):
He's still my biggest client, and for obvious reasons, it's
gotten weird professionally. He swore he would never fire me
or go to another company because of our situation, but
over the months he's become colder, unresponsive to calls, and
very critical of my work. I'm almost certain he's meeting
with other companies while I have other clients. The loss
of this revenue were he to fire me, would impact

(56:59):
my future. I'm fully aware that I've gotten myself into
this situation and this is the definition of don't shit
where you eat. But now I'm in it and I'm
losing sleep. Help thanks, Ashley, m hmmm.

Speaker 4 (57:13):
Trying.

Speaker 1 (57:15):
I mean, I don't think. I think if your motivation
is listen. I understand it's financial and it's your career
and your job, But I think him leaving wouldn't be
the worst thing in the world. I think that is
a bigger burden to Carrie than replacing him financially, which
will happen. You will get other clients and if if

(57:35):
the writing's on the wall, I would probably get ahead
of it. If you can, if you want to, I
mean get ahead of it. But it's not a bad thing,
Like it's kind of a toxic thing in your life.

Speaker 5 (57:46):
Yeah, it sounds like adding so much complication to your
daily life and not sleeping and all that over something
like this. It's like, I don't know, waiting.

Speaker 1 (57:54):
To be fired, waiting to be the worst feeling in
the world.

Speaker 5 (57:57):
Yeah, and not only that, it feels like closing the
door on a chapter in a real complete way to
maybe end anything where there's still a tie that is
sort of connected to how you're making a living that's
got so much sort of toxic I don't know.

Speaker 1 (58:15):
Did they say they're still sleeping together? Okay, yeah for sure, Yeah,
I think. I mean, I don't know what the ins
and outs of are like for references and stuff like that,
but I wouldn't rely on him for any of that anyway,
because you already have such a history. The healthiest thing
for you would definitely would be to cut ties, whatever
that means financially. I think you have to have faith

(58:37):
in the fact that you will get other clients that
will supplement that, you know, and replace his whatever income
he's bringing into your company. But yeah, it's bad juju.

Speaker 4 (58:46):
I think it's bad juju.

Speaker 3 (58:47):
Yeah, and I think sometimes when you get rid of
that bad juju, you make space for the good things
to come in, and it gets.

Speaker 4 (58:52):
Craze for good clients.

Speaker 5 (58:54):
Yeah, absolutely, because also it's a fear based response to
want to hold on to it anyway, because she's afraid
that nothing's going to come forward.

Speaker 4 (59:00):
But I think cutting that you'd be surprised to see
what what what? Lands?

Speaker 1 (59:05):
You smell like baby powder? Do you know that? Yeah,
like a little baby, like a little bit. And I
usually don't like to smell babies, to be honest with you,
because yeah, I understand any but you smell like an
adult baby.

Speaker 5 (59:16):
I do.

Speaker 4 (59:17):
Yeah, it's fresh clean, Yeah, my bathe, it's my perfume.
Don't ask me what it is.

Speaker 1 (59:22):
Sarah Catherine Paulson, we were so blastes were we were
we she was late. No, we were happy to have
you today and we love you. Thank you right back.

Speaker 4 (59:37):
Thanks for having me.

Speaker 1 (59:39):
Okay, shall them shall em shot bout shalom? Okay, guys,
we have added more shows to my Little Big Bitch tour.
I added another second show in Toronto, so I have
two shows in Toronto now to December seventh, December eighth,
December ninth, I'm in Ottawa and two new shows at
December fifteenth. On a Friday, we're doing a seventh thirty

(01:00:00):
and ten pm show with Kevin Hart and Friends that's
in Thackerville, Oklahoma. And all my other shows you can
buy tickets for at Chelseahandler dot com. I'm starting my
tour backup on September twenty ninth in New York City
at the Beacon, which is sold out, but the next
night there are tickets available in September thirtieth at the Beacon,
So for all fall dates, you can go to Chelseamler

(01:00:21):
dot com for tickets and you'll see me.

Speaker 4 (01:00:24):
If you'd like.

Speaker 3 (01:00:24):
Advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email at Dear Chelsea
podcast at gmail dot com and be sure to include
your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited and engineered by
Brad Dickert executive producer Catherine Law and be sure to
check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot com