Nineteen with Ziwe

Happy New Year!  Chelsea’s back in-studio this week, joined by Ziwe Fumudoh to talk about walking alone in the woods, the secret ingredient to the best conversations, and their mutual love of chow-chows.  Then: A wife worries that her husband’s porn preferences are too young for comfort.  And a New Yorker’s dating life runs afoul of a wicked curse.  

 

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Books in today’s episode:

Cassandra at the Wedding 

Black Friend: Essays

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Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at [e-mail]

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Executive Producer Catherine Law

Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert

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The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees.  This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all.  Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi Catherine, Hi Chelsea.

Speaker 2 (00:03):
Can you see my background in Whistler? Do you see
how beautiful it is here? It's a snow blizzard.

Speaker 3 (00:08):
It's a blizzard.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
It's like the snow is falling so softly behind you.
It looks like a quaint little town because there's snow
on the rooftime it.

Speaker 3 (00:16):
Is it is.

Speaker 2 (00:17):
Do you know I first saw I'm sick. I'm still
sick from the last time I saw you. I've been
sick for a month straight.

Speaker 3 (00:22):
I don't know what. I think. I have monkey pocks.
I don't know what is wrong with me.

Speaker 2 (00:26):
So excuse my sniffling everyone, but I can't get well.
And you know what the cutest thing was yesterday what
my friends. I was having dinner with my girlfriends here.
I have a crew here, you know. My whole family
was here for a week, and then my two my
nieces stayed here for another five days. And my one
niece woke me up at three in the morning. I

(00:46):
feel a tap on my shoulder and Seneca's like, Chelsea,
I've been throwing up all night. And I was like,
what the fuck am I supposed to do about it?
And so of course I got up. I'm in my
bra and underwear. I put her in my bathroom. She's
still throwing up. I'm trying to shove a zofran down
her throat. I'm like, here, fucking swallow this. And you know,
when someone's bobbiting, you can't, like they can't even drink anything.

(01:07):
And I'm sitting on the side of my bathtub in
my bra and underwear, and I'm like, thank God, this
isn't my life, you know, like I don't even know
what to do. So I'm just sitting there watching her vomit.
And then I get into my bed and I'm like, okay, Senny,
you know, come in my bed. I moved over. She
got into my bed and stayed in my bed for
twenty four hours, and I'm like, oh, this is what
it must be like to be a mother. Yes, but

(01:29):
I guess I caught whatever she got. And then my
other niece, Charlie was here. She's a dream boat too,
She's skiing like a maniac. But we didn't have a
lot of snow, and so it was kind of depressing.
There was enough snow to ski, but you can't ski
in or like to the bottom of the hill, and
it was a little light and now we are in
full blizzard mode. So as soon as we are done
with today's episode, I am getting my boots on and

(01:51):
I am taking my sick ass out on the slopes.

Speaker 1 (01:54):
Amazing. Just drink a lot of bone broth when you
get back.

Speaker 2 (01:57):
I'm going to bring a campbel back of bone broth
on the mountain. But I've just been I love it
here so much. I can't tell you the unadulterated joy
I feel. I'm sitting here. I write my book. Every
day I'm write working so hard on my new book.
Everyone is going to be well. I mean, I hope
everyone's going to love it, because I'm starting to love it.

Speaker 1 (02:15):
I'm sure they will. Actually, you know what, speaking of books, Well,
first of all, I'm curious if you've been reading anything.
But I've gotten a few emails asking where people can
find the books that we talk about on the show,
and I usually try to pop those into the show notes.
So for anybody who's wondering where can I am listening
in my car and you guys mentioned a book and
I don't remember what it was, go ahead and look
in the description of the show and you'll usually find

(02:37):
the book that we were chatting about.

Speaker 2 (02:39):
I just started this book that Tanner gave me called
Cassantra at the Wedding by Dorothy Baker. Anyway, it's really good.
It's about sisters. It's a short book. You know, when
I'm writing a book, I don't read as much, so
that's been an issue. So this morning I got up
and read two chapters of it because I was like,
I need to.

Speaker 3 (02:54):
Be reading while I'm writing.

Speaker 2 (02:56):
I don't like when I don't read for long periods
of time, and when I come to Whistler kind of
avoid the news and I avoid, well, all things that
are real.

Speaker 3 (03:03):
So I'm just in like this fantasyland.

Speaker 1 (03:06):
It's like your Disneyland.

Speaker 2 (03:08):
I'm coming home tomorrow because no one needs to watch
the Critics' Choice Awards on Sunday night that I'm hosting,
and I cannot wait.

Speaker 1 (03:13):
Yay, that's gonna be so exciting.

Speaker 3 (03:15):
I have watched every single movie. Oh my god, I've won.

Speaker 2 (03:18):
There are so much horniness in the movies this year.
So many penises, so many pres theses.

Speaker 4 (03:24):
Horniness. Queerness is great. There's tons of horniness, queerness everything.
It makes me horny to watch all these movies. I
can't wait to get on stage and talk about it.

Speaker 1 (03:34):
Do you have a favorite or a couple of favorites.

Speaker 2 (03:37):
Saltburn was pretty twisted, and I like that it was
like kind of a modern day talented mister Ripley, you know.
It was a little analogous to that. So I liked
that a lot. I really liked Oppenheimer. I mean it's
really long. Killers of the Flower Moon took me about
seven hours to watch it, and it was three and
a half hours long because I had to take breaks.

Speaker 3 (03:54):
Yeah, I think Saltburn is the most compelling.

Speaker 2 (03:56):
I watched Stranger from Us all of us Strangers, yes,
all of us strangers.

Speaker 3 (04:00):
That guy in it, I love him so much.

Speaker 2 (04:02):
He's so sexy, and it's a really sexy gay love story.
And it's nice to be straight and appreciate gay sexy
love stories.

Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yes indeed, and like sometimes they're a little sexier.

Speaker 2 (04:16):
Yeah, yeah, I know. I was like, should I master base?
I'm like, don't get carried away? And then wait, what
else happened?

Speaker 3 (04:22):
Oh?

Speaker 2 (04:23):
I have my little baby here, my buddhas you know,
Kelly's daughters are here.

Speaker 3 (04:26):
That's just so fun.

Speaker 2 (04:27):
I just am like, I love being a stepfather to them,
and we announced some new shows. We announced shows in Australia,
and we announced a really fun show that I'm doing
with Fortune Fimster and Mateo Lane and Sam Jay at
the YouTube Theater in May for the Netflix as a
Joke Festival in Los Angeles. So get your tickets for
that because that's about to sell out and that is
going to be a wild night and Vanessa's going to

(04:49):
be there as well. And then yeah, I've added five
dates in New Zealand and Australia.

Speaker 3 (04:55):
I have Canadian dates coming up.

Speaker 2 (04:57):
I'm going to be January nineteenth in Edna and then
Saskatoon and I'm coming to Colonna all over Winter Vancouver, Colonna, Calgary.
So yes, please go to Chelseahandler dot com get your
tickets because everything is almost sold out. So maybe I'll
be adding second shows, but I'm not sure we'll see

(05:17):
I like my winter time.

Speaker 1 (05:19):
Did you wind up getting a new dog?

Speaker 3 (05:21):
Did that wind up? Or didn't you know? I rode up?

Speaker 2 (05:23):
I got that CO two treatment on my face, which
we should show a picture of at some point, even
though this is a podcast, because I looked like Mike
Tyson just got done with me. I got a CO
two treatment. I drove from Los Angeles to Whistler.

Speaker 3 (05:36):
Huh.

Speaker 2 (05:36):
So it was like two and a half day drive
that I cause I took my time. And I stopped
in Bend, Oregon to visit a friend of mine, Melissa,
and she saw my face and she's like, holy shit,
what the fuck did you do? And I was like, listen,
I have done a lot of shit in my face.
This one was otherworldly. I looked crazy. Not only was
I black and blue, I.

Speaker 3 (05:56):
Was bleeding and swollen.

Speaker 2 (05:58):
God, and so like this seven top layers of your
skin just start peeling off after like day three. So
I'm driving and there's just like little gray matter all
over my seat, like when your clothes shed Like I
was shedding like a reptile. It was so disgusting. But meanwhile,
my face is like a baby's ass.

Speaker 5 (06:16):
Now.

Speaker 2 (06:16):
Oh, but the skin is so sensitive under my eyes.
She really zapped me under my eyes for my crows feet.
I like to keep my crows feet around you, notice,
to stay grounded.

Speaker 3 (06:25):
I don't want to botox those or anything.

Speaker 1 (06:26):
Yeah, you gotta just like look like a human.

Speaker 5 (06:28):
You know.

Speaker 2 (06:29):
It's a little light, But I am excited about my
dresses for this Sunday because they are. I didn't know
if I was gonna be able top last year's outfit
changes for the Critics' Choice Awards because I was really
happy with my dresses last year, and you know, I
don't really give a shit that much about clothing, but
I am fucking banging it out again this year.

Speaker 1 (06:45):
It looks so good last year. Are you able to
give us like a preview of like, are they Barkley?
Do you have color all the abode?

Speaker 5 (06:52):
No?

Speaker 2 (06:52):
I don't wear sparkles, Catherine. You know better than that.
I don't wear sparkles. Like I like color one color,
one dress, and I like to show.

Speaker 3 (06:59):
My body off.

Speaker 1 (07:00):
There you go, my bottom, My choice excellent, Chelsea. Are
you Are you a resolutions person? Is that something that
you get into at the beginning of the year.

Speaker 3 (07:09):
No, I'm not. I mean I think it's I don't know.

Speaker 2 (07:11):
I don't like when everybody's doing everything is something you know,
you know how I feel about trendiness. I don't like
New Year's resolutions. I just get better every year, and
we all should be getting better every year.

Speaker 1 (07:20):
Honestly, That's what I kind of realized a few years ago.
I mean, I would set these like grandiose resolutions, and
then I would realize at the end of the year, like, oh,
I actually like started doing a few of those things,
even though I thought I didn't do the resolution because
I didn't I wasn't real strict about it. But like
after a few years, I'm like, oh, I'm actually like
doing these things I wanted to do on a regular pas.

Speaker 3 (07:38):
Yeah, yeah, I mean we can always. I mean, I'm
always just trying to improve.

Speaker 2 (07:44):
I mean sometimes I take a couple of breaks, you know,
but I've been better, Like I had family around me
for three weeks straight. I had guests and family because
I had some friends come up too, And you know,
I did that in my Orca this summer, and I
just know my patience has gotten so much better. You know,
when they leave, I do have to take like a
Xanax and sleep for fucking twelve hours or actually I
slept for twenty hours the other day.

Speaker 3 (08:05):
I woke up, took some night well and went right
back to sleep. Perfect.

Speaker 2 (08:08):
But you know, my patience has got is improved. My
self awareness is on point. I'm aware, I'm calm, I
don't yell at people anymore.

Speaker 3 (08:18):
So like I'm I'm happy with myself. That's really good.

Speaker 1 (08:21):
And I would imagine too, like, since your patience has
gotten better, everyone around you is having a better time,
but you're also having a better time.

Speaker 3 (08:28):
Yes, I'm having a better time, and I'm also enjoying.

Speaker 4 (08:31):
You know.

Speaker 2 (08:31):
I always used to like imagine when I was younger,
the kind of aunt I would be, Like I wanted
to be this like bad ass woman that my nieces
and nephew's looked up to and came to.

Speaker 3 (08:44):
And that's happening.

Speaker 2 (08:45):
They come to me for advice, and they tell me secrets,
and they tell me things that they don't tell their moms.
And my sisters are probably both listening and wondering what.
But that, you know, it makes me feel so good
to like have these relationships in my life with children,
and at this age because they're all getting older now,
you know, they're not like eighteen, nineteen, twenty somethings, and

(09:06):
now we can have like adult relationships, and I just
I love that. And I my relationship with my sisters
has always been really good. And I had a great
time with my brother this year. I mean, there were
a lot of mushrooms going around in our family, A
lot of mushrooms, a lot of edibles were that kind
of family. We had a dinner out where it was
just a complete disaster. We could not stop laughing for

(09:28):
about three hours. So, I mean, this is kind of
what I dreamt about, you know, Like I wanted, I
wanted a big family like this, but I didn't want
to make one, and I have one, you know, Like
I didn't want to make my own, but I took
what I had and we all like come together and
we have. There's so many of us now with the
kids and their boyfriends and their girlfriends, and it's just awesome.

Speaker 1 (09:51):
Well, I think when you imagine something the way you
had been, you see it in your minds eye, it's
so much more likely to come to fruition to actually happen,
you know, and yeah, made that happen in your life.

Speaker 2 (10:01):
Yeah, so it's a it's you know, manifestation can sound
like such a corny word sometimes because it's like, but
so many of the things that have happened in my
life are have been manifested by me unconsciously or subconsciously,
you know, like I've just always envisioned. Okay, you know,
when I grow up, I want to have a skihouse.
I want to have this, I want to do.

Speaker 3 (10:21):
These things, like you know, and and and to feel
really secure. I feel very.

Speaker 2 (10:27):
Secure and I feel calm. I've started working with a
new therapist, a woman. Fun yeah, because I wanted some
like feedback on some things, and so it felt really good.

Speaker 3 (10:36):
To reach out to a new therapist.

Speaker 2 (10:38):
That felt really empowering to know that I needed someone
to talk to that was outside of my circle. And
I've been working with her and she's a real like
very different than my previous therapist, which is good because
I you know, I've I did that and I wanted
something different and a different fresh eyes on something.

Speaker 3 (10:58):
And so that's been good.

Speaker 2 (10:59):
And my kind of approach with everything like romantic liaisons
and men and all of it, I have. I feel
really good about all of that stuff that's happening too,
Like I'm open to love, but I really like I'm
also open to casual encounters with lots of different men.
And there's nothing wrong with that. They're like, that's fun

(11:22):
to have a guy in a place and to have
another guy in another place, and to be honest and upfront,
never lie about what you're up to, but to have
an understanding like, yeah, we're friends and we're going to
have sex. And we're friends and we're gonna have sex,
and this is going to be a romantic relationship and
it's not going to be exclusive. But if someone does

(11:42):
come along and I feel that strongly about it, I
will enter into a monogamous relationship. But I also just
want to use my body and share it.

Speaker 1 (11:52):
Yeah, I mean, how great is it to be just
like living in the moment where you're at being like cool,
whatever comes my way that's positive, feels right, let's do that.

Speaker 3 (12:02):
Yeah, so excuse me.

Speaker 2 (12:04):
I just took a sip of my bone broth at
my friend. Oh and so yesterday I was sick. I
was supposed to go to dinner with like six of
my girlfriends here, and I arranged it and then canceled.
I was like, can you guys go without me? I'm
just spreading germs basically, right, And then three of them
came over with soup, Like three different people dropped off
lentil soup, bone broth, and then this sky brought me flowers.

Speaker 3 (12:26):
I was like, what this is like my little village
of happiness? Yes, you have community there, I do, I do.

Speaker 2 (12:33):
I feel so loved I just it feels so nice.
I'm soaking it all up.

Speaker 1 (12:37):
Yeah, that's wonderful. I think something it's not really a resolution,
but something I want to be more intentional about this
year is interacting in community and sort of like getting
off of my screens, which I've pretty successfully done this
last year. Like I don't keep Instagram on my phone
just because otherwise I just keep going to it, but
getting off of screens and getting into real life, so

(12:59):
like rather having a zoom, going in person scheduling. You know,
I'm going to trivia night tonight with some of my girlfriends,
that sort of thing. So trying to be intentional.

Speaker 2 (13:07):
Yeah, that's nice. That's nice too. I mean, it's always
nice to be off your phone. I don't spend nearly
as much time on my phone as I do when
I'm home here when I'm here because when you're skiing,
you're not sitting there looking at.

Speaker 3 (13:18):
Your phone, right, And that feels good too. I don't
want to be like that.

Speaker 2 (13:22):
It says I got a thing on my phone that
says your screen use time has gone down thirty seven percent.
Oh that's from last week, and it keeps saying that
every week. It keeps going down. I'm like, exactly, that's it.
And Bernice and Bernice, Bernice, I'm missing the whole point.

Speaker 3 (13:37):
Bernice is this We Bernice and I.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Are bonding like it's nobody's fucking business. Bernice, I res
I took up with me to drive because I thought
I was going to rescue that other dog. We went
to the rescue. The dog bit me, so I was like, Okay, well,
obviously I can't.

Speaker 3 (13:51):
Get this dog.

Speaker 2 (13:52):
But by the way, what business do I have having
more than one dog? Anyway, Bernice is all I can handle,
and every she piece twice a day, and that's the
schedule I'm on.

Speaker 3 (14:00):
So she is so cute.

Speaker 2 (14:02):
She sleeps in bed with me, She follows me around
because she doesn't know where the fuck she is she is.
I mean, I can't wait to see what happens when
we bring her back at the end of winter and
see how she reacts when she sees Felix, because I mean,
she'll probably drop me like a hot potato.

Speaker 3 (14:16):
But we are bonding.

Speaker 2 (14:18):
She gets into bed with me on her own, she
cut and then she comes in when she wants to pee.
She taps me on the shoulder and she's like, come on,
let's go with.

Speaker 3 (14:26):
Her, paw. I mean, I'm like, oh my god.

Speaker 2 (14:28):
And the other day I was walking around I posted
this on Instagram. I took her for a walk and
this little kid was on his balcony and he goes.

Speaker 4 (14:36):
Daddy, daddy, come outside, there's a little baby bear.

Speaker 2 (14:41):
I mean, everyone stops to talk to her, which is also,
you know, very annoying.

Speaker 1 (14:46):
Right right, It's like, oh, this is so fun. And
then you're like, too many people.

Speaker 2 (14:50):
I'm not looking for any extra any extra attention or conversation.

Speaker 3 (14:53):
I'm like, back off, back off.

Speaker 1 (14:55):
She does fully look like a bear, like she looks
like she should be hibernating.

Speaker 3 (14:59):
I know, she's so fucking cute, so sweet.

Speaker 1 (15:02):
Well, should we introduce our guest today?

Speaker 2 (15:04):
Yes, yes, we have a guest today whose book is
called Black Friend and she had a very funny show
on Showtime called ze Way and that's her name, zee Way.
So please welcome this hot potato ze Way. Oh okay,

(15:24):
your time, take your time?

Speaker 5 (15:25):
Sorry, why honey, how are.

Speaker 3 (15:27):
You are you good? Good? Let's get yeah, yeah, sit down,
let's go, bitch. Are you fucking ready? I'm ready to go.

Speaker 5 (15:35):
Let's do it. Look no, I'm good raw dogging it?

Speaker 3 (15:38):
Oh, I love a raw dog.

Speaker 5 (15:41):
I look at a little moist. It's okay.

Speaker 3 (15:43):
This is Catherine, she's on the thing. How are you doing?

Speaker 1 (15:47):
I'm great? How are you?

Speaker 5 (15:48):
I'm great? I'm chilling. I'm coming from an interview with
Penn Badgley of you Slash Gossip Girlfriends.

Speaker 1 (15:54):
Oh.

Speaker 5 (15:54):
Yes, he has a podcast as well. So I just did.

Speaker 3 (15:56):
Oh oh good and how was that? It was great?

Speaker 5 (15:58):
I can't complain.

Speaker 3 (15:59):
Okay, great, great?

Speaker 5 (16:00):
Of course. How are you doing today?

Speaker 1 (16:02):
Hi?

Speaker 5 (16:02):
Many people? Did you interview?

Speaker 3 (16:03):
R I've interviewed one person so far. Yeah.

Speaker 2 (16:05):
But I can't stop clearing my throat today. It's almost
like I smoked a joint last night. But I didn't,
and I don't smoke joints specifically because I hate fucking going.

Speaker 5 (16:13):
Yeah, it's not cute.

Speaker 3 (16:14):
So I don't know what happened, and I'm irritated. You know.

Speaker 5 (16:17):
I'm sorry. I would offer you a lossage, but I
don't have.

Speaker 2 (16:20):
You don't know, well, of course you don't have a
lossage on you. Why would you?

Speaker 3 (16:23):
You know?

Speaker 5 (16:23):
Sometimes I travel with cough drops, but not today.

Speaker 3 (16:26):
We have a lot in common, we do, We have
a lot.

Speaker 2 (16:28):
We're both blonde, yeah, we're both white, blonde, big breasted women.

Speaker 5 (16:33):
Oh yes, BBW is what they call me.

Speaker 3 (16:35):
So that's what I've been calling you behind your back. Actually,
thank you. So I first heard.

Speaker 2 (16:40):
About you when you had your show on Showtime called
ze Way, and they were trying to book me on
the show, and my publicist at the time was so
confused about the format of the show that she goes,
I just don't feel comfortable sending you here because it
seems like a setup show. And I said, I can
handle a fucking setup show, Like I'm not worried about
someone setting me up and catching me out, Like what

(17:02):
I mean.

Speaker 3 (17:02):
It's already out out there. Wow, and so and then
I never did it.

Speaker 2 (17:06):
But then I was watching your show and I had
forgotten that I was, and then I was like, oh,
I wanted to do you.

Speaker 3 (17:10):
I would have totally loved it, really great.

Speaker 5 (17:13):
And by the way, I used to watch you every
day after school on Chelsea lately. I love that show.
So it would have been such a fun meeting of
the minds. But you know what next, I have to.

Speaker 3 (17:23):
Do it next exactly. And how was that show for you?

Speaker 5 (17:26):
It was? It was wild? I know, yeah, it was wild.
I mean, what was the nicest part of that show
was that the guests were so uniquely different, like Andrew
Yang versus like Chet Hanks versus friendly boys, Like they're
all so desparate. So I felt like I was learning
a lot about American culture.

Speaker 2 (17:41):
Oh right, you needed an update on America. Yeah, just
like a heat check, like okay, what's popping?

Speaker 3 (17:46):
Okay?

Speaker 2 (17:49):
And so I read that you studied Oprah's interviews to
see who you wanted on your show, or did you
study her interviews to see how to interview people?

Speaker 5 (17:58):
I mean, I definitely think Oprah was really good at
capturing like sensational interviews, Like they were always so ecstatical.
Even the Tom Cruise is like such a lightning in
the bottle that interview, And so she really taught me
the value of like creating a moment with the guest. Yeah,
so that's something that I really Also, she would interview
a wide plethora of people, So she talked to like

(18:20):
Tom Cruise or a different celebrity, Tony Braxen, and then
she'd talk to like, oh, the mother of a serial killer,
and it'd be like all in the same episode. So
she had really wide range. But she's a journalism background,
so I think that was really important.

Speaker 2 (18:33):
Yeah, and she also is a great fucking listener. Yeah
that's so good.

Speaker 3 (18:37):
Okay. Yeah, when she's interested, you're interested.

Speaker 2 (18:40):
And that's actually the key ingredient I believe for anyone
to do a decent interview is to actually fucking listen
and stop thinking about what you're going to be saying.
And it sometimes takes a long time to relax enough
into that. Like I was talking to a friend of
mine who has a TV show or has had several
TV shows, and he's a talk show host and I've
been a talk show host, and we were at drinks
last night and he was saying, it's funny when you

(19:02):
you haven't done it for a little bit and then
you do it, there's a rustiness that comes with it
because like, you can do it for many years and
you think it's like in your pocket, but then you
actually need to warm it up again because like talking
and interviewing people. I feel like I interview people wherever
I go. If you got dinner, I interview them. I
can't stop with the questions, and then I will badger
them if they don't, you know, if they're shy or

(19:23):
they're resistant.

Speaker 3 (19:24):
I go in harder, oh really, more curious about what
they're what's up? You know, what their story?

Speaker 5 (19:29):
What are you hiding?

Speaker 2 (19:30):
Because there's a natural curiosity, right, that you have with people?
I mean I might have an unnatural curiosity because I
like to get involved in people's business.

Speaker 3 (19:38):
Do you feel that way?

Speaker 5 (19:39):
I gues and no, Like I like to mind my business.
I like to let people tell me things on their own.
And that's part of why people feel comfortable. Maybe is
because I will sit quietly and that is enough to
make people feel uncomfortable enough to speak.

Speaker 3 (19:53):
I see. So a very different approach.

Speaker 5 (19:55):
Different approach. Yeah, I won't like corner someone and be like,
tell me your life secrets, but maybe I should on
like I'm really I want to see what that tactic
does well.

Speaker 2 (20:03):
There's also like an anthropological element to interviewing, right. It's
also just like you're trying to understand everybody, where everybody's
coming from. And I always give I noticed when I'm
talking to people and I'm curious about them, Like I
always think there's some big mystery behind everybody, and sometimes
more oftentimes there isn't you know what I mean?

Speaker 3 (20:20):
People are pretty fucking basic.

Speaker 2 (20:22):
So sometimes you're like creating this story in your head
where you think somebody's gonna like reveal some thing or
you're wondering a lot about it, and it's really not
that complicated.

Speaker 5 (20:31):
I feel like for me, it's about connection, Like what
do we have in common? Like as disparate as we seem, like,
what is the thing that we can come together on?
And that is how I find gold?

Speaker 3 (20:42):
And what's your background? So where did you grow up?

Speaker 5 (20:44):
Massachusetts?

Speaker 3 (20:44):
Okay?

Speaker 5 (20:45):
Where are you from?

Speaker 3 (20:46):
I'm from Jersey, Jersey's right, yeah? And you live in
la or New York, New York. Oh yeah, you know
you texted me about your chouse. Yah, yes, you get
your chouse.

Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes?

Speaker 5 (20:54):
And he is so sweet, so cute. I dropped him
off at daycare today.

Speaker 3 (20:57):
What color is he? Black? Oh?

Speaker 5 (20:59):
I want a black He is so sweet. Oh, they're
so they're quiet and clean.

Speaker 3 (21:04):
I know, you know what.

Speaker 2 (21:05):
They don't bark and they don't fucking want anything. No,
don't you just love their faces in the way that.

Speaker 3 (21:10):
They like it's really good? Yeah?

Speaker 2 (21:12):
And then the lips that come down like I can't
control myself and I have a little one at home.

Speaker 5 (21:17):
Oh, chow as well?

Speaker 2 (21:19):
Yeah, I only have chiws. Let me show you Bernice. Sorry,
I know that the listeners can't hear this, but it's.

Speaker 5 (21:24):
Well they can see it on your social Can I
tell a story about chow chows as you search?

Speaker 3 (21:28):
Oh yeah, but that's Bernice.

Speaker 5 (21:30):
Oh my god god. Okay, so she's groomed, she's kinda cut,
short cut. Yeah, she's so sweet, hot is she?

Speaker 3 (21:35):
She's like eleven or twelve. Her brother died last year.

Speaker 2 (21:37):
And I like older dogs because I'm good at transitioning
them from that age to death, you know, like that's
my sweet spot. Like I want them to feel loved
and attention. And I also they're gonna No one's gonna
get a five year old dog. And usually when dogs
are around me for a few years, they tend to
pass away.

Speaker 5 (21:53):
Wow.

Speaker 2 (21:54):
Wow, my housekeeper like she has Bernice when I'm on
the road. So she is like only Spanish speaking now nice.

Speaker 5 (22:00):
Oh that's so funny.

Speaker 3 (22:03):
Spanish a little bit now to communicate with her.

Speaker 5 (22:05):
I love that.

Speaker 3 (22:06):
Okay, tell us your child story.

Speaker 5 (22:08):
Oh well, my child story. This is not my personal chold,
but so the chow chow basically like in ancient China,
the emperor was like Okay, what dog can kill a bear?
And they brought them thirteen different dogs and he's like, okay,
this dog, chow Chow is the cutest, and so that
he made that the official child chow dog and he
had like three thousand and they would like hunt and
kill people and like be warriors.

Speaker 3 (22:28):
The Chowchow, the chow chow.

Speaker 5 (22:30):
Google that. Oh my fun fact, the real beautiful dogs
and their killers.

Speaker 2 (22:34):
I I was going to rescue this other big fat
nugget that I found. Oh he was a big fat
chunky but he nipped at me twice. And the guy
said he's gonna nip at everyone he goes, that's his personality.
I'm like, well, that's not gonna work. I have too
many people coming through my house. I can't have him
biting everybody, because you know, somebody, I don't care if
a dog nips at me or bites me. Really, I
really don't unless it's like, you know, a lunatic and
it's like carving up my body. But I don't mind

(22:56):
a little bite. But most people get freaked out by that.

Speaker 5 (22:59):
You know, I've I've never been bitten by a dog.
I'm gonna be honest, how did you get into chow
chouse beautiful like research and realizing that they were the
dog of Chinese emperors. I identify as an empress, so
so I decided that this was a dog for me.
I also honestly love the temperament of like quiet and clean,
like barking gives me an ageda and so it was

(23:20):
really something that I needed from my my roommate.

Speaker 2 (23:24):
Well, fucking barking is so fucking annoying. People have dogs
at bark. I want those dogs to shut the fuck up,
and I want other things to happen to those dogs.

Speaker 6 (23:32):
Do that.

Speaker 2 (23:33):
I won't say no, no, I won't say it on
air because it's it's obviously not nice, but and I
don't mean it, but I just barking is so annoying
and it's just such a bad quality.

Speaker 3 (23:43):
You know.

Speaker 5 (23:44):
I spend a lot of time with my dog, like
like I spent because I'm I write all the time,
so my dog and me writing, and so if my
dog was barking, I don't think I could get any
writing done. But dogs at bark. Hey, God bless you.
We love Peta.

Speaker 2 (23:58):
I mean, Peta doesn't love me, Peter, will you fucking
And they asked the minute you do something wrong, they
will come back there. They act like they're your best friends.
When you rescue your dog and then they're like, ah,
we saw you on your playing with your dog to
whatever is that appropriate to fly a dog fourteen hours?

Speaker 3 (24:12):
I'm like, back the fuck up.

Speaker 5 (24:13):
Oh my gosh, I'm.

Speaker 2 (24:14):
Like, listen, my dog and I are traveling together. Back
it up. So you grew up in Massachusetts, yes, and
then how many brothers and sisters do you do?

Speaker 5 (24:22):
Siblings when older one younger they're both boys, okay, a girl,
a middle child.

Speaker 3 (24:26):
Okay, so you're a middle child. That doesn't really track.

Speaker 5 (24:29):
What do you mean because usually.

Speaker 2 (24:30):
It's the youngest of siblings that are in this business really,
especially in the role that you play, Because like, for
people who haven't seen your show on Showtime, I want
you to describe what the premise is.

Speaker 5 (24:41):
The premise of my show is that I interview guests
and I bait them into saying uncomfortable things. And it's
pulled from this like this hardened trope that we see
in like Fox News where they would talk to like
Barack Obama and accuse him of wearing a tan suit
and how that was to the destruction of democracy and
similar I kind of take my guests at their worst

(25:03):
word possible and exploit that for comedic.

Speaker 2 (25:05):
Relief, and then how does that work out for the
guest comedically?

Speaker 3 (25:10):
Does it?

Speaker 5 (25:10):
It's I mean, yes, it's chaotic, it's funny, but every
guest is like a consenting adult. They know what's they know,
they're briefed entirely on what's going to happen. And the
people who do the best on the shows are the
ones who sort of surrender to that chaos and like
like double down on it.

Speaker 3 (25:24):
Yeah. I like that format. It's very new. Thank you
and original.

Speaker 5 (25:28):
Thank you. Yeah, I mean, I you know, I never
thought I would say Tucker Callson inspired me, but here
I am.

Speaker 3 (25:33):
I know he is such an inspiration. Let's talk about
your book a little. You wrote essays. Yes, I read
that you didn't want them to be too personal.

Speaker 5 (25:42):
I mean, who wants to share anything?

Speaker 3 (25:44):
Well?

Speaker 5 (25:44):
You actually have? You?

Speaker 1 (25:47):
You?

Speaker 5 (25:47):
I mean you've wrote written five or six Yeah, you've
written a lot of books. I don't even know if
I have that many stories.

Speaker 3 (25:54):
You do.

Speaker 5 (25:54):
I do, but I don't think i'd ever share them.
But I respect that. I respect that honestly, it's really
chic culturally Nigerians. It's like, why share any of your
business when you could simply not. So that is where
I'm coming from. But my book was due. I did
sell it, and so I had to finish it, and
I didn't want to give back the advance because there

(26:14):
was a strike going on with the writers and the actors.

Speaker 3 (26:17):
Did you think about giving back the advanced hundred times?
You didn't want to write it?

Speaker 5 (26:20):
No, I wrote it. I wrote it very quickly, and
I didn't want to release it into the world. Oh yeah,
I wrote it. I mean I'm a writer like that
is the easy part. It's the idea that people are
going to perceive me.

Speaker 3 (26:32):
That is very Nigerian.

Speaker 5 (26:33):
Yes, shout out Nigel.

Speaker 2 (26:35):
So you were resistant to releasing it because you were
exposing a part of your life that you wanted to
keep private.

Speaker 5 (26:41):
I was exposing any part of my life. Yeah. I mean,
I'm lucky enough that when I interview I get to
hide behind the artifice of a character. Right, so's she's
being devilish, not me. I'm the good guy. I'm the friend.
I'm the kind hearted woman. And so when you have
a book, you can't hide behind two hundred plus pages,
you have to say something of value, and so finding
out what I said that was of note and what

(27:03):
to share about myself that is worth my reader's time
is something that I really toiled with.

Speaker 3 (27:09):
M Yeah, and then how did you feel about that?

Speaker 2 (27:11):
Once the book was out and you got the reception
that you did, how did you feel did you your
feelings change at all?

Speaker 5 (27:15):
Of course? I mean I was called a genius, so
it's like, yeah, I'm just dabbing, dabbing through New York City.
I mean it's a sense of relief right that anyone
can could connect to any one of my stories, because
that was my fear that I was like writing into
a vacuum. So I'm really appreciative for sure.

Speaker 6 (27:32):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (27:32):
I read one of them that we talked about your
walk You're walking in the woods, and we mended and
this guy, this white guy, pulled over.

Speaker 3 (27:39):
Yeah, and well you tell the story.

Speaker 5 (27:41):
I mean, the story is so deeply creepy. So I went,
I go, I have to write in silence, and that's
why I have a very quiet dog. And so I
also liked to go to the woods of upstate New
York to write, and so I would hike up this
trailer at this place airbnbid, and every day we'd hike
with friends and the only time we ever encountered people
were like desperate census workers being like, please please fill

(28:04):
out the senses. We need to know who's living here,
and we tell them, sorry, Airbnb destabilizing. And so one
day this I'm walking the trail by myself. My friend
had just left and my other friend was coming in
the next day, and this super ru pulls up beside
me and I think, oh, hey, it's not I'm not
on the census. It's okay. And he's like, what are
you doing here? And I'm confused, like walking, and he's like,

(28:26):
you know you're not supposed to be here. I own
this property. You're trespassing. I'm like, oh, you own this property. Well,
thank you for having me at your beautiful airbnb. It's
so nice. I love the pool. Oh so you're staying
at the airbnb. So I realized he was lying, and
suddenly my heart skipped a be because now I'm alone
in the woods with a man who is a liar.

(28:47):
And so I'm thinking, like Jason bournstyle, I'm thinking like, oh,
should I calculate, like how fast can I run what
should I do? And he keeps asking me, what's your name?
What's your name? What's your name? And this was like
right at the time when I was starting to like
become more prominent, and so I'm like afraid to say
my name, Like what does he have? This is like
during the like twenty twenty summer where everything was so
politically fraught. And I noticed that there's a blonde woman

(29:08):
next to him and she's saying like, it's okay, it's okay,
justin It's okay, and I'm like, I'm just walking and
you have to understand, like it's really weird for me
to like tell you my name in the woods, like
I'm alone, I'm in a like a purple fur hat,
Like this is strange, and she keeps insisting that it's okay,
and he's like, don't worry, I understand. Like the political crimate.
We have a black friend in the back, but in

(29:30):
the super room dead as dead as it's so creepy,
dead ass. But the windows are up, so all I
see is my reflection and I'm thinking, oh my god,
when do I run, Like the tinted windows are who
else is in the back of this car? Like, am
I going to be murdered for this Jordan Peel fantasy?
And I say I would say hi to the black

(29:52):
friend in the back, but I can't see them. And
then the two the couple starts arguing and I'm like
this should be chance, like I should run right now.
And then they slowly roll down the back window and
it's this emaciated little black girl and she's sitting forward
like this and it's so still, and I say hi.

(30:15):
They're like hi. I'm like I love to go swimming
at that pool. They're like, oh, she loves to go
swimming at that pool that you're staying at. I'm like, yeah,
I would go swimming more, but it's cold, and they
were like, yeah, it is cold. And that was the
first moment when they realized like, oh, we have a
shared humanity, like we can agree that it is cold
too cold to swim. And then the little girl who's

(30:36):
facing forward just turns and screams lucky. And I jump,
like I was not expecting such like a low tambra
to come out of like this like nine year old
tiny girl. And I go, yeah, I guess I am lucky.
I guess I am lucky, and then this guy justin goes, hey,
just so you know, the set of the woods you're
staying on is on this side. The side you're on

(30:57):
is belongs to Elliot Spitzer. I'm like, Ellie Spitzer, I
don't even what the like, I know that name, but
I don't remember. Sorry. I'm like, okay, thanks. They're like
just so you know, okay, thanks, okay, bye, thanks, and
they drive up the hill and the little girl does
not break eye contact with me until they're over there.
I run back to the Airbnb at Google Elliot Spitzer.
I'm like, oh, like if I was caught in the
woods with him, I would be I would be worried.

(31:19):
And then you know, you Airbnb, you have to clean
the place whatever. It's super expensive four hundred all your
cleaning that you're still cleaning it whatever, And so I
like comment on the Airbnb like, oh, had a lovely time.
It's such a beautiful place. Just so you guys know,
like I did have this get out experience. I do
not judge the host, however, don't hike alone. And then
the host texts me and he says, it's so weird

(31:43):
that you said you had that experience, Like, who is
that guy he said, And I'm like, oh, he said
he was your neighbor. He's like, oh, that's not my neighbor.
And that was the end of that story.

Speaker 3 (31:53):
Ah. So you think that little girl was there to
adopt a daughter. It seems like how old was she?
She was nine?

Speaker 5 (32:01):
She was like a young kid, she was nine or
maybe seven, but tall. But but but he wasn't a neighbor.
He was just a stranger.

Speaker 3 (32:09):
Yeah, I love it.

Speaker 2 (32:10):
I love that people just want to get involved in
fucking shit that has nothing to do with them. I mean,
who would care about anyone walking down the fucking street
and why.

Speaker 3 (32:20):
Would you ever get involved in them?

Speaker 5 (32:21):
Like imagine, like what do you do? It was one
hundred acres and there is nothing I was disturbing other
than like leaves, dried leaves, and so that he elected
himself as.

Speaker 3 (32:32):
Mayor of the woods. Unwell, I know, and I do
you know.

Speaker 2 (32:36):
I hate when I hear that there's a woman with
them that just sits there and like, lets that go on, Yeah,
why do you why are you letting your husband act
like such a fucking asshole.

Speaker 5 (32:44):
I know she knew enough that she knew what he
was doing was bad or not enough to stop him.

Speaker 3 (32:48):
They say something.

Speaker 2 (32:49):
Yeah, all right, well we're gonna take a quick break
and we're going to come back and give advice.

Speaker 3 (32:52):
Okay, are you ready for that?

Speaker 5 (32:53):
Yes? Please?

Speaker 3 (32:58):
Okay, we're back. We're back. What do we have in
store for z Way today, Catherine.

Speaker 1 (33:04):
We've got a lot of stuff. We've got a question
about porn, We've got a dating art question.

Speaker 3 (33:10):
Okay, great, let's start with porn. Okay, do you watch
a lot of porn?

Speaker 5 (33:14):
No?

Speaker 1 (33:14):
No, This comes from Tina. Tina says, dear Chelsea. I'm
in my mid forties and my husband is a few
years older, closer to fifty. We've been married since we
were in our early twenties and have two daughters who
are now in their early twenties. I'm finding the aging
process to be brutal. I want you, yeah, I want
to embrace it and still feel beautiful and desirable, but

(33:36):
I generally don't. I look in the mirror and I
see someone with what feels like rapidly sagging skin, wrinkles,
and gray hair, and it's all such a bummer. I
find it completely unfair that men are not held to
the same standard as women. I recently started therapy for
the first time. But there's one topic I don't want
to bring up with my therapist, and that is porn.
When we were younger, my husband and I watched porn

(33:58):
together occasionally, and it was fun. As we got older
and had kids in the house, that's kind of faded away,
but we've still had a very active sex life over
the years. I've known that he still watches porn, and
now that it's so easily accessible on our phones, I'm
pretty sure he watches it very frequently. I know this
shouldn't bother me, but as I'm getting older and so
are our kids, I'm becoming increasingly uncomfortable because the females

(34:20):
in the porn are now the same age as our children,
and it feels a little creepy to me.

Speaker 5 (34:24):
Now.

Speaker 1 (34:25):
Of course, they don't make much porn with women our age,
and if they do, I'm sure that porn with women
in their early twenties would be more appealing to him
than most men anyway. So my question is, do you
think there comes a point when aging men watching porn
with much younger women gets inappropriate? Do I just have
to accept this fact even though we're both very much
aging and he's always going to be attracted to young

(34:46):
women and accept that as normal and not creepy. Anyway,
love your show, look forward to hearing your opinions.

Speaker 2 (34:52):
Tina, Wow, well Tina right, Tina, Yeah wow, well z
e Way, what do you think?

Speaker 5 (34:59):
That question makes me sad? So the reason why I
don't watch a lot of porn is because I get
learn TV right, so I get caught up in the
ethics of it. I'm like, is it a safe set?
I start to unravel the actual production of it, and
so that I can't I can't get off if I
know my girlies aren't getting put on and so so.

(35:21):
For So, if the question is isn't it inappropriate for
her man to watch porn with young women, I'm going
to say yes, but not because of what you think.
It's because of the ethics of how they shoot it.

Speaker 3 (35:32):
Yeah, so you're getting into a different area.

Speaker 2 (35:35):
Yeah, I would say with regard to her husband, it
is creepy when your husband when when the porn actors, like,
I think that's a very valid point to bring up
to your husband. Yeah, like you're gonna want you want
to watch porn? Fine, your you know that's what you're into.
That's fine, but there is an issue like if the
porn actors are their daughter's age, like that is disgusting.

(35:57):
There is something very creepy about that, and that's reasonable
too conveyed to the husband like it is I think.

Speaker 5 (36:02):
So, I don't know, can you police people's desire or I.

Speaker 3 (36:06):
Mean, if they respect you and say and you say, hey,
this really bothers me, Like I don't.

Speaker 2 (36:10):
I mean, I understand you like porn, but these girls
are so young, and like I'm aging, I don't feel great.

Speaker 3 (36:15):
I feel like you'd rather.

Speaker 2 (36:16):
You're more attracted to that, which is nothing I can change,
but I'd rather you wouldn't.

Speaker 3 (36:21):
You know there's a couple of.

Speaker 5 (36:22):
Reasons watch milk porn instead.

Speaker 2 (36:23):
Yeah there's I'm sure there is milk. Yeah, I'm sure
there is. I think I've seen that. But I think
you totally have to say something just because it's like
self preservation. You have a good sex life, you it
seem like you have a good relationship, you've been together
for many years. Fucking just say this doesn't make me
feel good. I mean, he's gonna watch it anyway, and
he's just going to hide it more.

Speaker 5 (36:41):
But so is that a resolution? If he hides. So
that's not a resolution.

Speaker 2 (36:44):
No, it's not a resolution. Well it could be because
I mean, let's say maybe.

Speaker 5 (36:47):
He he doesn't ignorance his bliss.

Speaker 2 (36:49):
Well no, no, no, no, I'm saying maybe he will
listen to her and take that into consideration and go, okay,
be sensitive about watching it or maybe watch less of it,
or at least she's even if he ignores it and
just sneaks it more and make sure it's more discreet
about it he is, at least she's getting it off
of her chest and saying it. Like, I think bottling
that stuff up is like that adds to you know,

(37:11):
you're feeling bad about aging.

Speaker 5 (37:13):
I agree.

Speaker 2 (37:13):
And secondly, I just want to make a comment about aging,
Like obviously you know I have access to all sorts
of things that help me anti age, but there is
something very like when you look in the mirror and
you say, I don't I don't like looking at the
saggy skin and everything, like those things have an impact
on your well being, Like you know you have had
a long like it sounds like a healthy life, a
healthy marriage, healthy kids, Like there's a lot to be

(37:35):
proud of and there's yeah, there is a lot of
elegance that comes with naturally aging. Like I look at
people that naturally age a lot and think I wish
I were more you know, natural about it.

Speaker 5 (37:44):
I believe in natural aging, but I think everyone is
entitled to do what they want with your body.

Speaker 3 (37:50):
Who cares?

Speaker 5 (37:50):
Who am I to judge? But to your point, there's
so much to be Like the wrinkles that you have
are a reflection of a life long lived, and like
they are a reflection of like a beautiful family. As
you just said, you have a beautiful husband, and you
have such a great like conversation and community, and that
is something to be proud of. Like, who do I
want to age and die? No, but it means that
I'm lucky enough. I'd rather be old and die than

(38:13):
die young. So I think that it's a privilege. Yeah,
but it's hard for me to say that because I'm
like nineteen.

Speaker 3 (38:19):
Well it's ours.

Speaker 5 (38:21):
You're not nineteen goo googga nineteen Chelsea, No, you're not.

Speaker 3 (38:26):
Yes, I am, you're nineteen years.

Speaker 5 (38:27):
I was born in two thousand and three.

Speaker 3 (38:30):
Oh my god, I didn't know you were ninety woah, wow, Wow.

Speaker 2 (38:36):
You have a lot of stuff happening at nineteen. You
haven't seen anything yet.

Speaker 5 (38:42):
No, not even the bottom of a beer.

Speaker 3 (38:44):
Really, you never had a drink. No, Nigerians don't like that.
They don't like to drink.

Speaker 5 (38:49):
Who have you dated in Nigerian?

Speaker 2 (38:50):
You don't want manager in my best friend's marriage, I
mean my old best friend.

Speaker 3 (38:53):
Oh no, we're not No, we're still friends.

Speaker 2 (38:55):
Okay was her husband and they are just like yeah,
no drinking, very very bright. They're all doctors and lawyers
because there are no other choices. You have to be
a doctor or lawyer and successful when you're a Nigerian.

Speaker 3 (39:10):
There's no room for any failure.

Speaker 5 (39:11):
It's like Tuck Across and Peers Morgan doctor lawyer. It's
like that same scenario exactly.

Speaker 2 (39:16):
Okay, Katherine, what's next? We just told that woman to
oh oh, let me wrap that up. I just want
to say, like, yeah, you need to start talking in
a nicer way to yourself, you know. And as long
as you're living a healthy lifestyle, like whatever is you're
going to do to make yourself feel better about the
way you look, drink more water, exercise more, eat healthier
food that shows up in your skin, in your face
every single day, and when you're feeding yourself and you're

(39:36):
feeling healthy, you do look better and you do feel better.
So it's all this kind of like psychological structure that
you need to get on board with as we age,
because there's going to be plenty of things that you
don't like about yourself. No one it gets to escape
from that physically. Okay, Catherine, we solve that problem, I think.

Speaker 3 (39:52):
I think. So, I'm trying to switch my bracelets over.

Speaker 2 (39:54):
To my other wrist, and it's really not working because
I have to do I have to go to this
about Yeah, yeah, knew you'd understand.

Speaker 3 (40:00):
See way, I can't believe you're nineteen years old, googaga.
Can you help me with that? Yeah, since you're nineteen,
you probably have great eyes.

Speaker 1 (40:05):
I do you have great great vision and dexterity. Well,
our next question comes from one of the most thorough
callers I think we've ever had.

Speaker 2 (40:12):
Oh oh wow, we've had some really fucking thorough callers.

Speaker 1 (40:16):
She starts with her stats, age twenty nine, gender, female, ethnicity, black, location, NYC,
sexual orientation, straight, topic, dating, and specifically what to do
when you lose hope?

Speaker 3 (40:28):
Okay, straight, but not for long.

Speaker 1 (40:30):
Here's my situation. I'm a twenty nine year old female
living in New York. I've been single and actively dating
for the last two and a half years. I have
been on a lot of dates sixty five first dates
to be exact, since May twenty twenty one. Wow, she
was keeping us breadsheet, by the way. Some of these
dates have turned into second and third dates, and there
was one guy I dated for a few months, but
nothing has turned into a committed relationship. In my most

(40:52):
recent experience, I went on what I thought were three
great dates. After expressing a lot of interest, this guy disappeared.
I understand that no one owes you anything early in dating,
but one we were intimate, and two this man was
thirty five years old, so you'd think he'd at least
send a text. Typically I would dust off the rejection
and just keep moving. I've been ghosted before, but for

(41:12):
some reason, this one got to me. The accumulation of
trying and trying with no success has had a bigger
emotional impact than I thought. Outside of dating, life is great.
I've been working with a therapist for the past five years.
But there's this other thing. I recently saw a psychic
for a tarot reading. A few weeks ago, and she
told me that someone who's jealous put a curse on me,
and that's why dating has been such a struggle. I

(41:34):
enjoyed the psychic and other energetic readings, but I also
know it's not all fact. Although maybe she's onto something.
A curse would explain a lot.

Speaker 3 (41:41):
Lol.

Speaker 1 (41:41):
I'm taking a break from the apps for now. My
question is how do I keep going?

Speaker 3 (41:46):
Polly? Hi?

Speaker 1 (41:48):
Hi?

Speaker 6 (41:49):
How are you Hi?

Speaker 2 (41:50):
We have our special guest seaway here today to help.

Speaker 3 (41:53):
Oh my god, my g favorite people.

Speaker 1 (41:55):
Hi.

Speaker 5 (41:56):
This is your story?

Speaker 1 (41:58):
Yes, Kylie Wow?

Speaker 3 (42:00):
Okay. So I had a similar experience. I had a
dry spell for.

Speaker 2 (42:05):
A long period of time where I was not connecting
with guys or the guys that were interested in me.
I was not interested in and the guys I was
interested in would seem interested and then either like back
off or get scared. And I thought, I seriously was like,
I feel like I'm cursed. I said that to my
girlfriend's in London, because I would like hang out with
these guys for like two and a half hours at
a bar and then I'd be like, all right, you

(42:25):
want to come home with me? And then like they
would disappear or they were scared, and I'm like, what
the fuck is happening? First of all, I'm ready to rumble.
You're never gonna have hear from me again. I mean,
this is my experience. I'm not speaking for you.

Speaker 3 (42:39):
Anyway.

Speaker 2 (42:40):
I went through this whole thing, and then I was
talking to my new therapist.

Speaker 3 (42:43):
I have a new therapist, and she was.

Speaker 2 (42:45):
Saying something to me. I said, I don't know what
kind of energy I'm putting out there. I think I'm
putting off the wrong energy or some weird energy. And
she said, I just really want you to think of,
like what the essence of you is really?

Speaker 3 (42:57):
Who is like the.

Speaker 2 (42:57):
Best version of yourself? And and I was like, She's like,
can you see that person? And I was like, yeah, absolutely,
I know exactly who that person is. And she's like, Okay,
when you are on these dates or you were having
these interactions, She's like, I just want you to always
remember like the best version of yourself, like the essence
of who you are. And I think if you're getting
tarot cards readings or any sort of psychic readings, you

(43:19):
probably understand what I mean by essence, right, Yeah, And
it's important.

Speaker 3 (43:24):
To think of that because we all have like what
is our essence? Who are we?

Speaker 2 (43:28):
And she just said, I just want you to hold
onto that version of you instead of getting into like
you know, because sometimes we have all these like guardrails
up and these invisible defense mechanisms. We're trying to self preserve,
We're trying to protect ourselves in different exchanges, and usually
it really has nothing to fucking do with you, because
all these men are fucking batshit. I had a guy
reach out to me a few weeks ago, chasing me

(43:48):
down on DM because we had matched on Rayah, and
I didn't respond chasing me down on DM to go
to a drink with him. I finally make a plan
with him and he ended up blowing me off. I'm like,
excuse me, you fucking more on But again, that has
nothing to do with me, you know what I mean.
That is something to do with him. That's somebody that
I'm glad I never went on a date with, because
if that's how we handled the situation, you know, good riddance.

(44:10):
But a take some of the pressure off of yourself
by understanding that men are it's a hot mess out
there and it's a numbers game and I understand you
went on sixty five dates, which is a lot, but
that attitude is right, Like it's fun to go out
and experiment, and just keep in mind the best version
of yourself, like when you were a little girl, Like
the most innocent, joyful kind of version of yourself. Not

(44:31):
to act innocent, but be playful in that way when
you're in these situations, so that you're not waiting for
them to like blow you off or walk out the door,
or that you're not going to hear from them again. Like,
don't set that narrative up. Go into each situation with
an open, healthy, like exciting mind and if it works out, great,
and if it doesn't, good riddance. Thank you for sparing me.

(44:51):
You know, another person that's not going to add to
my life. And I think if you just adjust your
attitude slightly when you're dating, are you dating a lot?

Speaker 4 (44:58):
Yeah?

Speaker 5 (44:59):
I'm dating, but no a lot, But I'm dating.

Speaker 2 (45:01):
Yeah, And I've I've been dating a lot lately and
my attitude has totally changed.

Speaker 3 (45:05):
And that advice she gave me, and you have to
do so.

Speaker 2 (45:07):
A little bit of work to figure out, you know who,
what your exact essence is. But we all know who
we are deep down, and we all know what our
best qualities are, and so you just want to go
into all of these situations with a lightness instead of
a worried kind of feeling or paranoia that it's not
going to work out or are you good enough? All
of that is irrelevant.

Speaker 5 (45:29):
Curses are real. I would say that you should pray
or do whatever thing that you believe in to help
protect you against that, because they are real. I don't
know if your friend really did that, but people courses
are real.

Speaker 3 (45:40):
Well, how did she say to remove the curse? How
do you remove a curse?

Speaker 6 (45:43):
So she gave me like very specific instructions about like
little rituals that I was supposed to do, which I
did because I just felt like I had nothing to lose,
lighting this candle and putting a baby leaf in the water,
things like that. I did everything that she asked, Like
I filled a water bottle with salt and like put
it in my window to like catch the moonlight, and

(46:04):
then I lit a candle and then ask for the
universe to remove this curse. Like I did everything that
she asked me to do. Basically, you just carry that
out and asked the universe to release the curse from you.

Speaker 3 (46:17):
So that's what I did. Yeah, well that's going to
work then.

Speaker 2 (46:20):
I mean you're doing all the things that you can do,
and also you know, meditate and pray on it, just
like do whatever your thing is.

Speaker 3 (46:28):
Do you meditate?

Speaker 6 (46:29):
I do, Yeah, not as consistantly as I would like to,
but I'm trying to build a more consistent practice of it.

Speaker 2 (46:35):
And I think when you're meditating, when you think about
radiating light, like I always think about that when I meditate,
Like I'm such a good vibe, Like I'm just have
light around me, and anyone who comes in is going
to also get light, and anybody who doesn't deserve that
light that will be rebuffed by the strength of that light,
you know. And like I want you to think about
that for yourself too, because you want to keep like

(46:56):
any sort of negative energies away from you.

Speaker 3 (46:58):
So what's the latest. You haven't been on a in
a few weeks.

Speaker 6 (47:01):
So there is like a little update to the original
email that I wrote.

Speaker 3 (47:05):
Actually you're married now I'm fully married.

Speaker 6 (47:09):
So I actually ended up seeing that guy two more times,
but it was like the same result, Like I think
it was kind of like an inevitable result.

Speaker 5 (47:17):
I'll tell you, you.

Speaker 6 (47:18):
Know, yeah, yeah exactly like he I don't know. I mean,
it was just like very surprising because this man is
truly like thirty six years old and like did not
have the emotional maturity to be like, hey, like this
has been fun. I'm just like not interested like that.
Like he sort of tried to do like a slow fade,
and I confronted him about it, and he got very
uncomfortable and then you know, tried to say, oh, like

(47:42):
I'm really busy, and I was like, okay, say no more,
got it good, Like I'm ready to move on. I
don't know. I haven't been on a date since then,
because like the thought of going on another date just
made me very anxious and like frustrated. So I was like,
that's not that obviously, this is like not bringing me
joy right now.

Speaker 3 (47:59):
So yeah, you have to be in the right head space.

Speaker 2 (48:01):
So you have to get yourself like do that little
talk with yourself before any date about your essence, about
your intention, about being light and not having huge expectations,
because that's also something we fuck up. We go into
dates sometimes and be like, oh, I wonder if this
is gonna be my boyfriend, And it's like, not everybody's
meant to be your boyfriend. Some people are just meant
to have fun with. Some people are just meant because
they're gonna be friends, you know, and on and on.

Speaker 5 (48:22):
Can I tell you what I do with dating. I
like to approach the people that I'm potentially dating the
way I poach friendships. So it's like, oh, I wouldn't
let a friend talk to me this way, so I
wouldn't let a potential suitor talk to me this way.
I wouldn't engage this way with a friend, so I
wouldn't engage this way with a suitor. So it's like,
for me, it has to be in the words of

(48:44):
Kim Catral, I don't even want to spend one hour
not doing something that makes me happy. So, like you
said it yourself, you took a break because you weren't
feeling it. That's cool, and then ease into it. However
you ease into it, but I think you have to
lower the stakes. Every single person is not going to
be the perfect person, in the same way that when
you meet potential friends, every single person isn't your bestie

(49:06):
all of a sudden, like it has to happen, Like
you have different friends that you eb and flow with,
So allow that to be as organic as you would
allow your dating life to be, because again you're in
theory when we date, we're looking for a partnership that
lasts more than six months, right, that is supportive to
both of the people in that partnership. So it has

(49:26):
to be like a healthy, organic exchange.

Speaker 6 (49:30):
Yeah.

Speaker 2 (49:31):
And also it's a great exercise in communication, Like it's
really good. That's you know, it's not for not if
you don't if you go on a date with somebody
that you don't click with, because you're getting better at communicating,
you're getting better at being in an uncomfortable situation and
making it natural. So there's advantages to going through the
process regardless of whether you end up with a boyfriend
right away, you know. And it's like I feel like

(49:51):
if you you know, you put that much effort into it,
you're going to yield results.

Speaker 6 (49:55):
Yeah, I hope. So I think something that the psychic
said to me that was like a little less esoteric
and actually like really resonated with me, which she was like,
I feel that you have been like searching and like
really seeking and like really putting your energy out, and
she's like, I wonder what it would be like for
you to just sit back and like let people come

(50:17):
to you. And that really struck me, and I am
I'm just like now in the process of trying to
figure out what that looks like in real life, Like
how do I sort of just like sit back and
let people come to me?

Speaker 3 (50:31):
You know?

Speaker 5 (50:32):
Yeah, how do you make friends in real life?

Speaker 6 (50:35):
I mean, this is a good question. I It's something
that I'm working on, Honestly. I luckily like my job.
I spend a lot of time meeting a lot of
different people. I manage a lot of studio full time
and I teach there. And I've actually like made friends
with some of my clients. Basically they started out as

(50:56):
clients and then you know, we would just spend a
lot of time talking after a class, and then I
just was like, hey, I think, you know, we should
hang out. I feel like we never have time to
like finish our conversations anyway. So like I've been able
to meet people that way. Outside of that, it's a
little bit of a it's been a little bit of
a challenge for me to like make friends, like as

(51:16):
an adult as I imagine it is for a lot
of people. But that's been really helpful. I've also been
trying to like go to events and stuff.

Speaker 5 (51:24):
Yeah, I mean it sounds like from Pilate's at least
these are people who have your shared interests and you're
able to have like a mutual connection. So it's like,
I hope that as you find a perspective partner, you're
looking at places where you actually want to be yourself,
where you're actually having fun and you're attracting the energy
to you in those spaces, but you're not changing anything
about you or what your wave is, but simply being

(51:46):
yourself and doing the things that you like.

Speaker 6 (51:48):
Yeah, I think my biggest struggle is like the things
that I really love to do there just like aren't
a lot of straight men there, and I think a
lot about Like is the reason why and like I
feel more comfortable is because there are no straight.

Speaker 2 (52:04):
And that's I mean, I think you speak for lots
of women when you talk about preferring areas spaces without
straight men. I think we can all relate to that.
When you're on dates, are you very like are you
do you sit back and let it happen or are
you like controlling or steering the conversation.

Speaker 6 (52:23):
It really depends on the person. I try to. I
try to be conscious of like not talking about myself
for the entire time, and also because like I do,
I am curious about the other person. But there are
times when I feel like, if I don't ask a question,
this person is just going to sit here and like
let it be dead silence.

Speaker 3 (52:43):
And honestly, like do people do that on dates? Do
people just sit there in second silence?

Speaker 6 (52:47):
Yeah, well no, they just they just kind of wait
for you to ask them a question, like I'm I'm
interviewing them, And sometimes like if I get frustrated, I
will just sit there because I'm like, this is not
I'm not going to interview you. But I really try
to like let there be a conversation. But occasionally, yes, there's.

Speaker 2 (53:10):
Not pretty fucking awkward when you're on a first date
with somebody and you're sitting there in silence.

Speaker 3 (53:14):
That's like, yeah, well then you're not a good match.

Speaker 1 (53:17):
No, yeah, they're not going a conversation.

Speaker 5 (53:19):
It's a hard thing to hear, but you know.

Speaker 2 (53:21):
But anyway, you're going to get rid of this spell
if you haven't already you're going to get rid of that.

Speaker 3 (53:25):
That's going to do. You just have to think of
that as gone.

Speaker 2 (53:27):
You did everything you had to do to get rid
of it, and you're going to just kind of adjust
your expectations and understand that you're going to go into
these dates with just a little bit of a lighter
attitude about it and not look at it as a
reflection of you each date. And also get out there more.
Do other stuff in your community so that you can
meet other people. Go rock climbing, go to one of
those classes. You'll find some straight guys there. You know,

(53:49):
go to play tennis, or you know, you could join
a book club to make girlfriends.

Speaker 3 (53:53):
I mean, I'm sure there's no straight guys in a
fucking book club.

Speaker 2 (53:56):
But just be actively trying to like widen your circle
of comfort and put yourself out there a little bit more,
and I think that will yield results.

Speaker 3 (54:04):
Also, it always does. Yeah, what city are you in?

Speaker 6 (54:08):
I'm in New York.

Speaker 2 (54:08):
Oh well, hello, there's plenty going on here, sister, lots
of action everywhere you look. So just go down to
the pier. There's men there all the time. Just go
to the pier and wait.

Speaker 3 (54:22):
Yea, all right, all right, thanks for calling you us
posted Okay, okay, thanks bye bye.

Speaker 2 (54:29):
We'll take a break and we'll be right back to
close out with z Way and we're back.

Speaker 3 (54:38):
She was real cute.

Speaker 2 (54:39):
It's amazing how women are so worried about men, even me.
Like a woman like me, you would think we wouldn't
have issues with men, and I do too. They're just
it's a hot mess situation dating.

Speaker 5 (54:51):
Yeah, I'm the older I get the more you're nineteen,
goog got so from what when you were sick? From
when I was seven? Thank you? A year after. I'm
trying to get to a place where I don't need
a man, and I just like whatever comes into my
life is cool.

Speaker 2 (55:10):
Yeah, well I'm at that place and eventually you need penetration.

Speaker 5 (55:14):
That's true.

Speaker 3 (55:14):
And what I said to my might I said to
my therapist, she goes, what do you want exactly?

Speaker 5 (55:19):
What about toys?

Speaker 3 (55:20):
And I that's not as fun. I like a man,
you know, I like a man.

Speaker 5 (55:23):
So sometimes you have sex and it's like not that good.

Speaker 3 (55:25):
No, that's true.

Speaker 5 (55:26):
But what I'd be alone?

Speaker 3 (55:27):
But I would I'd rather be alone than have bad sex.

Speaker 2 (55:30):
Also, but what I would like and this has happened
once in my life before, and I liked that setup.

Speaker 3 (55:34):
I like having men just all casual men and differentations rotation,
different New.

Speaker 2 (55:40):
York, La, Spain, London, just different guys to have sex
with and real fun, flirty.

Speaker 3 (55:46):
No like, no serious commitment.

Speaker 2 (55:48):
If I fall in love with one of them, great,
then that could become a serious commitment. But to go,
And she and I started laughing because I thought as
soon as I said that she was.

Speaker 3 (55:54):
Going to go.

Speaker 2 (55:55):
First of all, no one really wants that. And she's like,
that sounds awesome. She's like, that's it's alsome. I go,
that's exactly what I want. I want fun and flirty
and light and like you go and you have fun
with someone and you're not stuck with them long enough
for anybody to get on each other's nerves, you know
what I mean. That's how I would like to And
when I'm single and I have money and I can
do what I want, there's no reason I shouldn't be

(56:17):
doing that.

Speaker 3 (56:18):
You know, I don't want this body to go to waste.

Speaker 5 (56:20):
I mean, so why are you and why aren't you
doing that? I am doing that?

Speaker 2 (56:22):
Okay, So so you have a perfect life, Yeah, I
started doing that as soon as I talked to my therapist. Okay, okay,
And just to clarify at the end of this episode,
I would just like to clarify that zea Way, I
did fall for her bullshit. But she's thirty one, so
she's not nineteen. She's half of she's half, she's twice
as whatever.

Speaker 3 (56:39):
You get the drift older than that.

Speaker 2 (56:40):
Nineteen times two is not thirty one. Okay, Well that's it.

Speaker 3 (56:44):
That's for that. Well that was an episode. Yes, yes,
thank you zee Way for being here today. Its very
nice to meet you.

Speaker 5 (56:50):
Thank you for having me Chelsea. You're an icon, You're
legend Chelsea lately Chelsea presently.

Speaker 3 (56:55):
Yes, thank you.

Speaker 2 (56:58):
Okay, So show dates coming up Canadian These are for Canadians, guys.
I'm coming January nineteenth, Edmonton January twentieth, Saskatoon February ninth.
I'll be in Winnipeg February twenty third. Calgary that is
almost sold out, so get your tickets. Victoria, BC is
March eighth. March ninth is Colowna, also almost sold out.
Not sure if I'm adding second shows yet because of

(57:19):
my schedule. Vancouver is March twenty ninth.

Speaker 3 (57:23):
And that is almost sold out.

Speaker 2 (57:24):
Then i will be in Salt Lake City April fourth
and Denver April fifth. I'm coming to Arizona at Maricopa
April twelfth. April thirteen, I'll be in Brooks, California at
the Cash Creek Casino. And then I'm going to be
in Santa Rosa Sunday, April fourteenth. I'm coming to Richmond, Virginia, Baltimore,
Maryland on April twentieth, Gary, Indiana, Prior Lake, Minnesota. Coming

(57:48):
to Oklahoma Norman, Oklahoma on May third and May fourth.
I will be in Thackerville, Oklahoma for my rescheduled Windstar
World Casino date.

Speaker 3 (57:58):
I'm coming to.

Speaker 2 (57:59):
Englewood, cal Saturday, May eleventh at the YouTube Theater.

Speaker 3 (58:03):
This is for the Netflix Is a Joke Festival.

Speaker 2 (58:06):
I'll be performing with Fortune, Fimestir and Matteo Lane and
Samjay and Vanessa Gonzalez. And then i will be in Verona,
New York on May twenty sixth, and then I'm coming
to Australia in July and New Zealand July fifth, Auckland
and I'm coming to Wellington, New Zealand.

Speaker 3 (58:24):
Melbourne, Brisbane, Sydney, and then.

Speaker 2 (58:27):
Thursday, August first, which is a long way away and
a date I am just seeing that I am not
ready to announce. Okay, so those are all my dates
for that are up and available, So get your tickets.

Speaker 3 (58:40):
I can't wait to see you. Yeah, that's it.

Speaker 1 (58:44):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickard executive producer Catherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com