March 14, 2024 • 54 mins
Celebrated author Kristin Hannah joins Chelsea this week to talk about how to make the muse appear, why careers are made in the aggregate, and why Chelsea thinks Alaska is the last place on earth she’d want to be. Then: A new author wrestles with the last 50 pages of his novel. The writer of a feminist newsletter wonders whether to reveal her past. And a woman who lost her dad on 9/11 struggles to tell her story.
*
Books mentioned in this week’s episode:
*
Need some advice from Chelsea? Email us at DearChelseaPodcast@gmail.com
*
Executive Producer Catherine Law
Edited & Engineered by Brad Dickert
*
*
*
*
*
The views and opinions expressed are solely those of the Podcast author, or individuals participating in the Podcast, and do not represent the opinions of iHeartMedia or its employees. This Podcast should not be used as medical advice, mental health advice, mental health counseling or therapy, or as imparting any health care recommendations at all. Individuals are advised to seek independent medical, counseling advice and/or therapy from a competent health care professional with respect to any medical condition, mental health issues, health inquiry or matter, including matters discussed on this Podcast. Guests and listeners should not rely on matters discussed in the Podcast and shall not act or shall refrain from acting based on information contained in the Podcast without first seeking independent medical advice.
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hi, Catherine, Hi, Chelsea, how are you hi.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm very excited about our guest today because she's an author,
and all my friends up here are reading her books
knowing and anticipation that she's coming on. So this is
an exciting time, you know how I much? I love
authors and I what's going on? What's going on? Well?
I had a whirlwind week. I was in Deer Valley
skiing this week. I was performing and then I went
(00:25):
to the Oscar parties to put my get my dress
and my glam on. And my friends and Whistler are like,
every time we see pictures of you dressed up, We're like,
that can't be you. That's not her. I'm like, that's
the real me.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You do look nine feet tall in these column dresses,
you would look extrameline feet tall.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I know yesterday I was skiing, I got these I
got this new ski off it sent to me from Bogner.
Shout out to Bogner Skiwear, thank you for that. And
my friends are like, oh my god, your body, your ass,
your legs. I was like, keep it coming, girls.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I am also loving all the outtakes from your Your
birthday is shut as well. Popping up up here and there.
I'm like, damn, girl, you've been working out.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Her niece really really got a lot of attention, and
I think she likes being in a baby beorn on
my back because she was just so chill and relaxed,
and I was like, God, do you love skiing as
much as your mama does?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Her legs sticking out. She was like in heaven.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
She's like attacked. She looks like she's been taxidermid, which
is my type. But Doug, I just I mean, everyone
wanted to have Doug this last weekend. All my friends
and Whistler are like, who's taking care of Doug? Bernice
is popular too, but Doug is like other level. Because
I don't I have to keep you know, and I'm
trying to split them up so I don't have to
ask somebody to watch two of my dogs. But Doug
is ridiculous. Did I tell you about his diarrhea?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You did?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, so now he's diaryiea Doug.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
He's feeling better after his little say it's be He'll
still be diarrhea Doug in my heart forever. Hey, Chelsea,
here's a question for you. Was there a book that
everybody loved that you just could not get through.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, a lot of books. Catch twenty two Midnight Children
by Sam and Rushdie. I could never finish that. I
didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. By
the third I was like, what, there's a man in
a boat I don't wear. So I didn't read that.
But growing up, I think the most seminal book was
The fountain Head by Ann Rand. I read that like
(02:19):
three times. I'm not sure really what I got out
of it, but I liked it and I liked rereading it.
Uh yeah, fountain Head. That was a good That was
like an eighteen year old book. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, clearly you didn't get your politics from that, so
that's a good things.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
No, I did, and I don't even think I understood
what I was reading, but I liked the idea. I
liked some of the ideas in it. And then when
I would read book discussions on it, I'm like, oh wait,
I don't even know what happened. I was like, wait,
my comprehension skills were not where they needed to be.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, for me, I was Pachinko and my mom like
loved this book. Everyone loved this book. But I just
I couldn't like lock In with the Carrick. So I
think I'm gonna have to watch the show of that,
because I've heard it's really really good. There's like a
series of it.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, I remember reading Pichenko. I really liked Pachinko, but
I know, yeah, I tried to watch the show, but
I couldn't get into it. I don't like one. But
they make books into shows. It's one or the other
with me, not both for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
All right, Well, we have an amazing guest today. Actually,
my mom and my mother in law are really excited
about her.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oh yes, yes, our guest today is the best selling
author of The Women, The Great Alone, The Nightingale, and
Flyerfly Lane, Flyer Fly Lane, and currently has the number
one selling book in America, which is called The Women.
Please welcome author Kristin Hannah.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Hi, guys.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
First of all, she has the number one book in
the New York Times well pretty much every bestsellers list
and booklist is right now. Number one is The Women.
And you may know Kristin from her other books like
The Nightingale and The Great Alone, which Kristin, I have
to say that subject matter couldn't be less appealing to me,
and I could not put that book down like I
have sent that book. I sent two books out this
(04:02):
year as Christmas gifts to everybody. One was The Grade Alone,
and then there was another book. And people, I mean everyone,
all my friends in Whistler are all of them. We
just like referenced it all the time because it was
so painful, painful and traumatizing and beautiful and all of
the things that you're known for. So let's talk a
(04:23):
little bit about all your inspiration for these books. There's
a lot of common themes that you talk, you write about.
You write a lot about PTSD. You write a lot
about the war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two.
I think, oh no, no, the guy in Great Alone
was from he had PTSD from Vietnam, right, So what
made you so interested in that topic?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You know? I think, actually, Chelsea, it's because I was
a kid during the Vietnam War, and you know, it
was such a fraught time and there was so much
anger and political division. And I had a best friend,
you know, we were like in third grade, and her
father served in Vietnam and was shot down and never returned.
(05:04):
And so I've always sort of just remembered that and
thought about it, and we wore these prisoner war bracelets
where we had the serviceman's name and the number that
they were or the date that they were lost on
your wrist. And the idea was that you would wear
this until he came home. So I wore it for
decades waiting, And I think it just when I saw
(05:29):
how the Vietnam vets were treated when they came home,
it just really stuck with me. And you know, and
obviously we've had wars since then, but I just think
it's so important that if we're going to ask people
to go off and serve their nation and put themselves
in harms way for us, that we care for them
(05:50):
when they come back. And so I keep coming back
to this issue that means a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
M Yeah, it is pretty it's a pretty embarrassing when
you find out what vets have when they returned, and
how many of our homeless population are vets who aren't
taken care of by our own government who they sacrifice for.
It doesn't I mean, how do you look at it, Like,
how old were you when the Vietnam War was happening.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Well, let's see, I was thirteen, I think when it ended,
and so I was, you know, like in kindergarten or
something when it started.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Jesus, that's a long time. When you compare the way
we are now with everything that's going on in the
world now, and you think back to that time, what
strikes you in terms of this position our country is in,
or the temperature of our country maybe.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Well, the political division that we're seeing now and that
we were seeing, you know, during the pandemic and for
the last you know, several years, felt very much like Vietnam,
which is why, you know, I think I chose this
moment to write the book. But it was a very
different time because in terms of the political division, in
(07:00):
simplest terms, you could say that it was sort of
young versus old, and left versus right. And you know,
there was this whole movement, the whole Flower power, Make
Love not War, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
So the what we were fighting about was much I think,
much more philosophical.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I mean, right, philosophical, same kind of divisions, but people,
there's very it was very disparate like being in that war.
First of all, the way that our government lied to
us over and over again about what was happening over there,
which I'm sure still happens every single day in our
country in whatever war we're in. We're being lied to.
So that's disappointing. But in terms of like, I want
to talk a little bit about your writing process because
(07:44):
you're so prolific. I mean, I don't know. I can't
believe you when you DMed me and said have you
read my book yet? I'm like, you wrote another book
when I just got done with the last one. So
I want to talk about that because how do you
what is your process and how long does it take
you and what do you do you every day?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Well, so for you, okay, so we have to go
back a little bit. I started this career. I used
to be a lawyer, and I started this career because
I got pregnant and had a baby and wanted to
be an at home mom. So I wanted something that
I could do that was sort of for myself but
was at home, which meant that in the beginning, you know,
I wrote during nap time, and I've just sort of
(08:24):
continued on and so for years I wrote a book
a year, and then a couple of times I would
take two years, like Firefly Lane. If I wanted to
sort of redefine myself, and I think when I reached
a certain age, I and with it corresponds to writing
The Nightingale. I started going three years between books. What's
(08:47):
weird about now is the books keep selling. I mean,
like The Grade Alone. I mean it was out in
twenty eighteen, but people were still discovering it in twenty
twenty two. So it sort of feels like I'm having
another book instantly, But really, it's been three years.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
And did it hit number one? Was it very popular
when it came out or did it gain its popularity
after a couple of years?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
The Great Elege So it hit number one, and you
know it was popular. Actually, you know, the Great Alone
popularity surprised me. I didn't actually because, as you point out,
it was a dark subject matter and you know, it
was it was kind of difficult. So I've been really
surprised that people have responded to both the beauty and
(09:33):
the harshness of Alaska and the sort of difficulty of
that relationship.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Have you you spent time in Alaska?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Right? Yeah. My family's business is sport fishing lodges, and
they have one in Alaska. They have a bear camp
and a fishing camp.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I guess you. I mean, I don't see how
you could possibly write about that, that aloneeness unless you've
experienced it. And when anyone wants to talk about a
loneeness or feeling alone, they need to read that book
and think about elast because that's when you're really fucking alone.
I mean, that is one of the most unfeeling back
drops I could ever ever imagine. Okay, so what's your
(10:10):
process writing?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Do you write every morning? Do you write it? You
write nap time?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
What?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That's what you used to do? But I mean, are
you disciplined? You must be.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, I am really disciplined. I mean it's a it's
a two prong thing. First of all, it's a job.
And you know, I remember like when I was a lawyer,
nobody said, hey, do you feel like practicing law today?
You just went in and sort of, you know, did
your job. And so that's what I try to do.
And in terms of, you know, the writing process, I'm
(10:37):
asked all the time, well, what about when inspiration and
when you need the muse to show up and when
you need to be inspired? And I really find that
the mews shows up when I sit down, and you
know that if I go in search of it, I'm
more likely to find it. So yes, I'm very disciplined.
I sit down every day. I write pretty much from
(10:59):
seven to four or how much with my husband and
you know, and then I write. And then what I
do now is I take months off where I'm not writing.
So I you know, I work fifty hours a week
when I am writing, and then I'll take you know,
two or three months off and travel or hang out,
(11:19):
drink wine whatever.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. There's a time, like
you know, to harvest, and then there's a time for
so you know, there's a time for planting, and there's
a time for harvesting. And if we don't, like as creatives,
if people, if we're not filling ourselves up with real life,
it's like then what we have? What kind of output
do we have? I'm with you on the three months off.
I love taking my vacation time very seriously because I
(11:41):
need to experience things and you know, experience stories that
I can then put back, spit back out and regurg
you to it's true. And without that life experience, it's like, well,
what you know, I think that is so important, and
people don't give, especially American culture. It's not about that.
You're not supposed to be taking so many breaks. It's
out a hustle, hustle, hustle, But you can hustle and
(12:03):
also take breaks. Those two things can work together. What
happens when you find out you're number one on the
New York Times list.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, Champagne is sort of the you know, the first thing,
and I think almost it's a great sense of relief.
It's joyful, obviously, it's exciting. I love all of that,
but it's it's mostly just okay. So I think it's
probably the same for anyone, for you, for anyone when
you get reviews in when you realize that something that
(12:30):
you have poured your heart and soul in in private, alone,
behind closed doors for years is being embraced by people,
and for this book even more than number one. What
has been so huge is sort of the outpouring of
love and support and gratitude really from female and male
(12:52):
veterans and their families. And I can't tell you how
many you know, women have come up to me crying saying,
you know, thank you for just reminding people that we
matter in the service that we're out there that we're
we're working, we're doing our best, and I think you
get to an age I'm certainly there now where you
(13:16):
realize that remembrance and gratitude matters. You know, you don't
want to do all of this in avoid whether it's
stay at home motherhood or your job or your creative process.
I think we all need to be seen.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I think that is the
one thing. I think that is the one thing that
you know growing up, when you're a kid and you
and you are seen. When you feel seen right by
a teacher or by your aunt or uncle and not
in a creepy way, that really does empower you. Like
if someone notices you and notices whatever you're good at
(13:53):
and is encouraging. I mean, being seen, I think is
the number one thing people don't feel right. When people
feel that kind of tenderness or aloneness or vulnerability, they
just feel like they're not understood or misunderstood.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It can change your life. I mean one teacher coming
up and saying, I had a teacher in eighth grade
who said, you know what, you have a power here
people like you. You don't have to be so afraid
all the time, because I went to a million different
schools and I was always the new kid in the
wrong jeans with the wrong haircut, and so I tried
(14:27):
to be invisible. And you know, in eighth grade someone said,
you know, hey, you don't have to do that, and
it was really pretty life changing.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I had a teacher who actually passed away this last
week named missus Sheckman, and she was my third grade teacher,
and I always was problematic and she would take me
on the weekends to her husband. She hear her husband
had a house down the Jersey shore, and she was
trying to help my parents. She's like, let me guide her,
let me help her. Because I was so full of
it and angst. I just wanted to be a woman.
(14:56):
I couldn't handle childhood. I was like, this is so annoying.
And she would take me and she would sit with
me and just be like, do you understand You're going
to do amazing things in this world? Like You're going
to be incredible. But it wasn't at a time where
I ever thought that I was only eight or nine.
I was like, well, yeah, whatever. I just couldn't And
the time that she spent with me, I can't remember
anything she said to me, but I know that feeling,
(15:18):
and it was I felt so cared for and so
special that she went out of her way to spend
time with me. That I will never forget that. And
I always think of that when I think of children,
you know, because I don't have a high tolerance for them,
so I really have to pick and choose the ones
that I want to be around. But it is so
impactful to have that kind of influence. Now do you
mentor anyone Are you into that in terms of writing,
(15:41):
Like do you help other authors?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I do? I do. I haven't helped I haven't worked
with a lot of beginning novelists, but I work with,
you know, a sort of a big group of us
who all sort of came of age at the same time.
And there's something so powerful. I was going to point
out what you were going to what you were saying
earlier about children and being you know, mentored like that.
(16:03):
It's especially important for girls, and I found, like with
the women female writers community, there was for a long
time this don't ever tell anybody what you're doing, what
you're making, what you're getting, you know, keep everything very competitive.
And so I've got this big group of female friends
(16:24):
where we share information now, and that's another thing that's
kind of life changing, is women sort of owning their
own ambition and coming together to share information that is
withheld from us.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, which also seems like a newer thing. Females supporting females.
It's like we finally cracked the code and we're like, oh, wait,
why the hell are we listening to men tell us
to you know, they're the ones that are separating us
and making us so competitive. And it feels like a
recent thing where women are really showing up for each
other and understanding we're not each other's enemy. You know,
(17:01):
we actually have to stick together and become the most
powerful version of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Absolutely, and that's one of the best things I see
happening around us now. I mean, when I was a
young lawyer, there were very few you know, female lawyers
that were partners or you know, we're running the firms
or anything, and there was very little mentoring going on,
and it all felt very competitive, like there was only
room for one at a time. And I think we
(17:27):
have all learned how important it is to you know,
offer a hand to the people coming to the girls
coming up behind us.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, you write, I mean there's a lot of female
friendships in the books. Obviously, there's always, you know, a
strong connection, especially in the Women and the Great Alone,
you know, that community in Alaska and the Nightingale, and
so that must feel important for you to demonstrate, you know, absolutely,
and that was something you know, Like I said, I
moved around a lot, so so childhood friendships are rare.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And I think it was until I was in college
and then a young mother and a young wife and
all those things where I really sort of understood this
truth that had not been sort of passed along to
me anyway for whatever reason. My mom died very young,
so maybe that's part of it. But this truth that
(18:19):
it is your girlfriends who will carry you through life,
who will be there when you know, when the shit
hits the fan. It's your girlfriends that you call when
you feel like a bad mother. It's your girlfriends when
you want to celebrate anything that happens. And I think
it's so important because we come together, we witness each
(18:39):
other's lives, we are each other's support. In many ways,
we're soulmates, you know, with our best friends. And I
think that's kind of an idea that is, it feels
new even though it shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I know, isn't that so weird? It's so within us
and in our DNA, like as a you know, we're
so maternal just by nature. We have to really unlearn
all of these things that have been kind of put
on us. How old were you when your mom passed?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I think it was about twenty four?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Okay, So how does that affect you? Being a mother?
Losing your mother at that age?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
You know, it's hard. I mean it's really hard, and
then you have to rely on your dad. And my
dad was of course broken at the time as well,
we all were, you know, she was so young, forty six,
and so at twenty four you don't realize how impactful
this is going to be because you are at that
(19:36):
age where you think you've got it nailed. You know everything,
you know, you're the smartest girl in the room. And
so it wasn't until I would say, really almost forty
when it really struck me. I didn't know my mother
and I had to sort of go and search for her,
you know, try to find her myself. And I did
(19:58):
that the way I do ever every thing, which is
through writing and so that's why I wrote the book
Firefly Lane, about a woman who is, you know, dealing
with breast cancer, because that was my best way to
try to figure out, like, what did this look like
from her side?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, and I'm curious at how it actually impacts your parenting,
because you know that you're giving her something that you
didn't necessarily get for that long.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, I mean what it does. I think always in
the back of your mind is this idea that being
a parent is really important, being there and showing up
is really important, but also understanding I think that you
have a finite amount of time and knowing sort of
(20:48):
I guess the peaks and valleys that the relationship you know,
will go through. And I just always try, to the
best of my ability to never sort of do something
that I think is across the line, because you just
never know how much time you have.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, Okay, Wow, we're going to take a break and
we're going to be right back and we're back with
Kristin Hannah. I'm so happy to have you on the
podcast today, Katherine. Do we have some callers we're going
to give advice, Kristin, so buckle up.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Our first email really just has to do with recommendations.
Our listeners love books and are constantly asking for more recommendations.
So Kathy says, my name is Kathy Quinn. I'm from Dublin, Ireland.
I'm about to go on vacation and I would love
a list of book recommendations. Kathy.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Oh, okay, So Kathy, you're not telling me what you
actually like to read.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So no, I tricky.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
There's a book called We Begin at the End by
Chris Whitaker that I love. I almost always recommend Shadow
of the Wind by Carlos Ruiza Phone And for a
vacation read, I mean, Lessons in Chemistry is way too easy,
so I will go with remarkably bright creatures.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I have to say I agree with I felt Lessons
of Chemistry. I felt like I was reading like a
school book, like not a school book, and it was
just too light and too easy. I'm like, no, I
need it a little bit a step up, no offense.
So I think Bonnie Garland wrote that, right Armus, Yeah, Garmus, Garmus. Sorry,
it's a great book. But I also felt that way.
And also I just got Belly of the Elephant. Loving
(22:27):
the Belly of the Elephant.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
You guys.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Have you guys heard about that book.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I didn't read that.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's going around with my Whistler crew, so they gave
one to me for my birthday. So I'm going to
get into that as soon as I'm done with the Women.
But I also would say to our caller, just the
Great Alone is not ever going to disappoint you if
you haven't read that. That is the best page turning emotionally,
like you're so invested and you feel like you've been
spun around the spin cycle and like an a laundromat
(22:51):
after you read that, because you are have been through
every kind of gamut of emotion and it's just so beautiful.
And I'm sure many of our listens haven't yet read it,
but the way that you ended that book was done
in such a tasteful, non cheesy way and believable. Like
I loved that, because sometimes when books have that kind
(23:12):
of ending, they can go it's just too much, like
it's like almost like a pad com Yeah yeah, and
you're like, no, that's not real. But this felt just
perfect everything about it from start to finish. It's just
blown away.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'd see a couple of recommendations of things I've read recently.
This is an old one, but I just finished Into
thin Air, which is John Crackhouer, and he talks about
being on Mount Everest during the deadliest year of Everest expeditions.
I also just read Over the Top, which is Jonathan
van Ness's first book, and I really loved that. It
(23:44):
was really a lot more frank than I expected, and
so that was great. But one of my favorites that
I've read recently is The Square of Sevens. It's by
Laura Shephard Robinson and it follows a woman in the
seventeen hundreds who sort of does some divination and reads
cards for people. It's really really cool and exciting, and
I will say there is something about the way you write,
(24:05):
Kristin that I found myself, especially with the women, but
also with the grade alone, Like you're reading, but you
forget that you're reading it. You're just seeing it in
your mind. You're just sort of like visually seeing this,
experiencing the characters, and they're just there their Yemi reads.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
It's pure escapism. You're writing like it's really just takes
you away, and which is what you want from a book,
at least I do.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
But really as I'm writing, it almost feels like I'm
watching a movie and transcribing it. It's so you know,
fully formed in my head, and so I think that's
why I mean, I hear cinematic all the time, and
I think I am it's a huge you know, visual person.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Has anyone bought the rights to the grade alone?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
It is actually in development for whatever that means. And
Warner Brothers has just bought the women and it looks
actually like the Nightingale may film this year, which is
pretty exciting after you know, co and the strikes and
everything that we've had to deal with.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Wow, that's awesome. Congratulations. I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah. Well, let's jump to our first caller here. Our
first caller is Nicole and she is a wellness coach
and writer. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing to ask
you about writing. I'm twenty eight years old and have
endured a lot in my lifetime and feel called to
write about it, but I still have a lot of
(25:29):
doubts if my story is enough. Last September I had
a personal essay published in The Cut. I lost my
dad on nine to eleven, and I'm still searching for
who he was. Was the title of it. Right now,
I'm in the final sprint of writing my memoir along
with a group of female writers doing the same. I
have about twenty five k words down. My goal is
to hit forty K, but I can't help but feel
(25:50):
stuck and resistant when writing the rest. I've been writing
in no particular order, and I feel like my story
doesn't have the needed beats to flow that other memoirs
en compass.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Ooh.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I've been piecing together memories and scenes and lessons that
stand out in my memory from the past twenty or
so years. It's been challenging to capture a moment in time,
so I include all of it. I keep reminding myself
that it's just a first draft, but it doesn't make
it any easier to sit down and write the hard stuff.
Reading Life Will Be The Death of Me was a
beautiful and soul crushing experience. As a reader, I admire
(26:21):
how vulnerable you are surrounding the loss of your brother
Chet and its impact on you. So my question for
you is, how do you push past resistance and write
about super personal, vulnerable moments from your life and childhood.
What wisdom can you share from your experience writing previous
books and the one you're working on now. Thanks so much, Nicole.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Hi, Nicole, Hi, Hi. You're very lucky because we have
a very big author on today. I'm Kristin. I'm going
to let you go first because I consider you much
more professional than I do myself.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
First of all, I find it extremely difficult to write
out of order because you lose the connective tissue you
of one moment to the next, and then you're trying
to sort of recapture what you were doing before. But
if you're writing what you should be writing, you're slightly
changed in every single moment, and those need to progress.
(27:14):
So I would say that first of all, and I
would also say that everyone's first draft is terrible and
frightening and difficult, and you're sure that it's not good enough,
And the point of that is to sit down and
to push through and get to the end, because really,
only at the end can you look back with clear
(27:36):
eyes and see what the best story is and how
to tell it. You have to get all of that
out of the way first.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I agree with that writing out of order can be
frustrating because you kind of lose your tempo, and then
I always have to write chronologically. I started this book
by just writing essays and then I was like, oh,
we'll put them together, and I'm like, no, no, I actually
have to go in a time order. So I agree
with that, and I also think, like, first of all,
it's amazing that you're sitting down and writing a book.
(28:06):
So patch yourself on the back for actually even taking
on that task. You've set yourself up for success with
a group of other women that are also doing the
same thing as you. And your first draft isn't going
to be the draft that you want, but it's just
important to get just keep moving, you know what I mean,
towards your goal and keep writing and you don't get
the answers, like you know, sometimes I'm writing something, I'm like,
(28:26):
this isn't going to work with this and this doesn't
connect to this, and then like sometimes in the middle
of the day, it just pops into my head the answer.
Because when you spend enough time being creative like that,
creativity begets more creativity. So it's just like Kristin was
saying earlier, you weren't on the phone yet, but when
she sits down and she writes, you have to put
(28:47):
the time in for that effort and then it does
kind of all come together when it's supposed to. But
you're not supposed to be perfect in your first book.
I learned more in my first book and the editing process,
and I'm on my seventh book. So just all of that,
like sentence structure and thought structure and where this goes
and times and places like all of that stuff. There's
(29:08):
so much to learn in the editing process that you
just have to know that that is going to be.
I think for me that is the most important ingredient
for anything I do, is the editing, whether it's my
stand up, whether it's my books or being on TV.
Like you always want to edit to amplify. That's what
I always think. You don't need to have everything in there,
(29:29):
but you can put everything down and then you go
in and go, this isn't necessary, this isn't necessary, and
tighten everything to make it just really like full, juicy
and fast, you know, moving, moving, moving.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
To add on to that, which I think is absolutely true,
the act of writing is, especially your own story, is
so cathartic and so powerful and it changes you and
just simply the fact that you undertake this and you
write it you know, don't focus too much on is
(30:01):
this publishable? Where will this go? What will I do
with it? Just sit down and focus on the idea
of you telling your story for you, and don't you think, Chelsea,
it's just so powerful to do that and getting to
the end is the crucial moment. So just keep going.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Nicole, So you've written about losing your dad in this
very traumatic way and you've published an article about it.
Is that what you're finding the most difficult to write
about or is it some of the other you know,
connective tissue the other parts of your life.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Yeah, I think it's kind of revisiting in it and
continuing to revisit in revisions and just kind of constantly
looking at it or thinking about it. Is like the
process of a writer. But I also was diagnosed with
leukemia when I was fifteen, so about ten years after
I lost my dad, and that's kind of where the
story begins. And then I'm going back in time a
little bit there with how this relates to the philoss
(30:57):
with my dad and how they all kind of come
to get So he was wondering, when you're writing about
these moments of grief and complicated grief, Like, how do
you kind of structure or process you're writing so that
you're not feeling that all the time or you're kind
of getting back to the present.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, I think in any natural like rhythm, you're going
to be right. I mean I remember writing the Life
will be the Death of Me parts of it, and
I was bawling crying writing it. But like anything with grief,
you're not sitting in it all the time. So you
have to be very gentle with yourself, like when you're
having those moments, have those moments. That's where the most
(31:33):
beautiful stuff can come from, you know, deep pain and grief,
and so allow yourself the time to sit with that
and don't make such strict rules for yourself. Right, You're
going to find your own rhythms about things. You're going
to find out like when the best time of day
is to write. If you haven't already, you're going to
find out Okay, I just wrote this, and now I
need a break to write something a little bit lighter.
(31:54):
You're going to get into your rhythm. So just pay
close attention to you. When you've had a really productive day,
be like, okay, what was that that led to that
productive day, you know, so you can really just keep
cultivating the best habits for you and I'm not worried
about it at all. For you, like this is the
process and your first book is it can be terrifying,
so it's just already bold that you're doing it.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, the balance between
the creativity and then like you know, having to produce
something too and having something you know, I want out there.
But I think having less pressure and kind of figuring
out what works for me is the process I've been
on and I can lead into that more.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah. Okay, well, good luck to you. I can't wait
to read your book.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate talking to everyone's day.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Thanks to call.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Thank you, Nicole, take care bye. She seemed like an author.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, I know. And when I first talked to her,
she's like, oh, well, I you know, I'm a wellness
coach and stuff and yeah, I'm not really a rite
And I was like, no, you are a writer. I
was like that, you know, that's your day job, that's
you know, you might have a nine to five.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
But it's just so funny that men will always say
like that. You know, it's like we can't ever just
lean in, like I'm going to be a writer. I'm
writing my first book. It's you know, no, men have
no problem. Yeah I'm an author before they publish a
fucking thing.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I wish like a we could gift to all women,
like ten percent of the confidence of like a twenty
two year old white guy who's just graduated from college,
Like just ten percent.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
It'd be perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
My nephew Max will start with your confidence.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Oh and I just wanted to add two for Nicole.
We chatted about it. She has cancer free now, so
she no longer has leukemia and she's doing great. So
our next caller is Sarah. Sarah is thirty six, and
she's here in La, she says, Dear Chelsea. Last year
I left my full time copywriting job to pursue my
dream of feminist writing. Since then, I've started a weekly
(33:51):
newsletter that has amassed a pretty decent following and continues
to grow daily. I've also landed a few big byelines
on hot feminist topics, writing a book that uses some
of my own story to highlight how evangelical Christianity and
purity culture harmed millennial girls. Since it draws heavily upon
my own experiences. My book will implicate people from my past,
(34:12):
such as my ex husband, my old church, and, to
my great discomfort, even my family. I don't want to
use this opportunity to bash or hurt anyone, but I
do want to be honest about what happens so I
can help other women. How do I stay vulnerable about
my experiences without undermining my credibility and looking like I
have an axe to grind? I admire your candidness and
(34:33):
fairness when talking about your own painful moments of the past,
and I would love your insight. Sarah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Hi, Sarah, Hi, Hi, Hi. This is Kristin Hannah, our
special guest today.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So nice, Thank you, Hi, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So are you you're writing? Is it a novel? Are
you making it fiction?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
No, it's it's kind of a memoir. Plus it's going
to be kind of a deep dive into evangelical purity culture.
And I got married at twenty two because of that
whole ecosystem. So it would, you know, talk about generally
how that whole y two k era harmed women and
girls like me, So it would use my story, but
(35:14):
kind of do more of a cultural deep dive.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well in the process. As Kristin can attest as well,
you are going everyone is writing about themselves to some degree,
and whether it's fiction or nonfiction, like we all are.
And if you're going to write a nonfiction memoir, you're
going to have to change the names and the people. Anyway,
it's a legal issue, so you're gonna they're going to
step in your editor and help you with that, because
(35:40):
you don't have the liberty to, like, you know, tell
other people's stories. Unfortunately. I know that because I've gotten
in trouble many, many times. So you do have to
kind of disguise everybody. I mean, you could still tell
your story, you're just kind of protecting the people that
aren't agreeing to be written about unless you can get
their permission. So I wouldn't really worry about that, you know.
I mean, Kristin, you've probably to do that. I mean,
(36:01):
you're writing more fiction, obviously, But what has been your
experience with change when you're basing a character on a
real person or on an experience in your life.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Do you know what. I've actually been really careful not
to include real people in my fiction to a great
extent for this very reason. And since I don't do memoirs,
I can't really speak to that. But it's it's interesting
because I mean, maybe you know this Chelsea, if she
calls it a novel and everyone is you know, fictional
(36:34):
and it doesn't look too much like her actual husband,
where is the line there?
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, I would say that that would be a better
avenue for you not to have to worry about it,
because once you fictionalize it, then you can color it
with whatever you want, you know. I mean, you can
do that in a memoir, but it's that's not really
what a memoir is. But have you thought about making
it fiction? No, But that's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
That's a really interesting idea.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Because then you can kind of just let it loose,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, and you could address issues that perhaps you didn't
personally face, but you feel, you know, need to be
explored and need to be talked about. And then you
could use your personal story as sort of marketing and
you know, and how to sell the book because you
would bring so much to a novel as you know,
(37:23):
as someone to talk to.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Oh that's really interesting. Okay, Yeah, Well the first book
I wrote was a novel, so I have experience doing that,
so that that's I had not considered that.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
That's a great idea, Yeah, because it's like historical fiction
what you're talking about. Yeah, Okay, well, great problem solved,
I think, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And I mean I am someone who went through some
of the same stuff where like you know, youth group
and purity culture and all this stuff that like, really,
you know, I've found stuff rattling around in my brain
decades later that I'm like, I didn't know that was
still in there. A couple of books that I recommend
to for anybody who did go through that, Pure by
Linda ka Klin was something that helped me sort of
(38:03):
unearth a lot of those things rattling around in there
that weren't very healthy. And then also Kate Kennedy just
wrote a book called One in a Millennial that's on
the New York Times bestseller list at the moment, and
it's a lot about uh, millennial culture, but also some
of the religious stuff that maybe mess us up a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
So well, thank you both, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
Nice to meet you both. I've been such a huge
fan of both of you, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, can keep us posted, Okay, Okay, we'll do by awesome,
And if anyone wants to check out Sarah's feminist newsletter,
it is called Reclaiming and you can find it at
reclaimingthewsletter dot com. I kind of wonder too, Christ And
I wonder if you you know, your career is at
the point where one book feeds into the next, as
(38:47):
far as like you have a following and this sort
of thing. Is there any advice you'd give to beginner
authors or writers as far as connecting with a publisher,
selling your book, getting the word out there, maybe on
social media, any of that stuff you work.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
You know, when you're a beginning writer, everything seems like
it's about one book and how does this book sell?
How does this book get reviewed? What happens? And I mean,
I'm living proof that a career is made book by
book by book, but also in the aggregate, and a
book that failed, you know, ten years ago, can suddenly
(39:24):
be on the bestseller list. And so I think the
important thing is, you know, to just if this is
what you want to do, if you want to be
a working writer, then you have to make the sacrifices
that are necessary to do that. You know, you have
to find the time to sit down, you have to
actually write. You need to find a group of people
(39:46):
that support you because it's a lonely endeavor. And then
you have to not give up. You know, you have
to not let failure derail you. You have to not
let anything push you aside and keep believing in yourself
and your vision and believing that like I said earlier,
(40:06):
the writing itself is the most important thing, you know.
It's sort of if you build it, they will follow,
you know, if you do your best time after time
after time, and you get lucky, you can have a
career or a job at this. But it will never
be easy. And I don't know about you, Chelsea, but
like every new endeavor, I think, can I do it again?
(40:30):
Do I still have it in me? And you just
have to battle that, I think, like we were talking
about earlier, especially as women.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
But it's so interesting though, because you know it's like
do I still have it in me? And I would
argue that we get better as we get older, you know,
in terms of creative Like I loved what you just said.
It's book by book. It reminds me of that bird
By bird By and LaMotte that book because somebody should
write a book called book by books it's for authors,
because that's so true. You think, you know, it's everything's
(40:59):
writing on this one book, and it's like, that's just
not the case. I've had very successful books and I've
had less successful books, and it is an aggregate and
it is it's like it's the whole collection, you know,
So everything is just kind of a step when you're
when you're a writer, it's like, this is your first book,
and you know that there's going to be one after
that and another one after that, and it doesn't have
(41:21):
to be the most successful book in the world for
you to get another book deal. You know, all you
need is your creative artistic intelligence and you're gonna figure
it out. But I also think when when you have
a clear vision about something and you can see it,
like what Kristin what you were saying about when you're writing.
I feel that way about things when i'm really like,
(41:41):
I guess in your flow state. You know, when you're
in your flow state and it's just easy and it
comes to you, but you're very clear about where you're going.
It's kind of like it's almost impossible not to succeed
when you have such a clear vision.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I think that's true, and it's long as Like the corollarily,
I would add to that is what you said earlier,
editing matters. You know, you can easily get to a
point where, and especially beginning writers, where they just think
everything is perfect as it comes out to them because
they feel like they're in that flow state. And the
fact is, you you know, you have to be an
(42:19):
artist for half of the project, and then at some
point you have to be a business person. You you know,
you have to look at your work with really cold,
hard eyes and try to make it the best. And
I think one of the things that's great about writing
in terms of for the long term is the more
(42:41):
you change and grow, the more your work changes and grows,
and the more you bring to the table. And that's
I think pretty exciting to sort of watch yourself, you know,
improve over time.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yes, yes, that is very satisfying.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
And kind of along those lines, I've read somewhere that
you had the idea for the women like decades ago,
but you didn't feel like you were ready to tackle that.
Is there a way that you know when it's time
to tackle an older idea or when you're ready.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Well, when I first pitched a book about Vietnam, it
was nineteen ninety seven, so I was thirty seven, and
I had an editor who had been at Berkeley in
nineteen sixty eight, and she was a very smart woman.
And that's one thing I would say, surround yourself with
the smartest people you can and then listen to them.
I mean, that's super important. And she said, you know, honey,
(43:35):
you're not old enough and you're not good enough, but
come back when you are, because it's a good idea.
And in nineteen ninety seven, no one wanted to talk
or hear about Vietnam, and so I just kind of
waited and I kept it was almost like my Bellweather,
like okay, am I old enough? Am I good enough?
And I started realizing, okay, I'm now old enough. And
part of that was motherhood. Part of that was seeing
(43:58):
the world change around me. Part of that was understanding
things about government and politics and American society that I
could not possibly have understood when I was, you know, younger.
And part of was leaning into risk taking and saying, Okay,
I've done this for a very long time, and I
(44:22):
am ready to fail if that's what it takes and
this is my moment.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
And Chelsea, do you have thoughts on that as well
as far as one part of your story when it's
time to tell that going back to things that might
be old or painful or no.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I mean, I think you just know when you're like
you've got, when you've ready to drum something up, you know,
you're like, I have output. I have enough now, I've
collected enough new information that I need to get some
ideas out there. You know, the book I'm writing now,
I've had a more I was trying to like jam
it in and jam it in and write and like
(44:58):
I was like, okay, let me write here and write there,
And it's like that's not a natural flow when you're
doing that. Now, when I've been a you know, whistler
for a month or two, that's when I get my
writing done. When I could do it every morning, the
first thing I do is get my computer and write
for three hours. And half of my writing is editing.
Like I'm always editing. I'm always looking through things again
(45:18):
because I just I find that to be the sharpest way,
especially for comedy, you need to have a good editor,
and you need to be a good self editor. That's
another thing. You know, people can get really married to
their own ideas and thoughts. And when Kristen says, listen
to people who are smarter than you, you know, I do
defer to my editors every single time when they're like
(45:39):
this isn't really working or I'm not somebody who has
to be like, no, I need this, I need this.
I'm very open to feedback, and I think that is
a very critical you know, because some people are too
open to feedback and they don't you know, they kind
of lose themselves to the feedback versus being so obstinate
you can't hear any constructive criticism. There's a nice place
in the middle to find where you are open to feedback,
(46:01):
but you still have an idea of where you're going
and you're married to that idea and people can edit
around that, but you have to stay true to what
your vision is.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So, Chelsea, how do you I mean, You've got a
lot of creative pursuits going at any one time, right,
lots of different avenues for your creativity. How do you
balance when is the time for what? And when to
lean in and when to take a moment and wait,
(46:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
I'm a little bit of a you know, like a
live wire. I just kind of I get in a
good state, like a flow state with my stand up
and then I'm like, you know what, I'm loving this
so much. I'm loving the show. I'm going to extend
it and do fifty more dates before I shoot my special.
When I'm writing, if I'm only writing, then I really
get into writing. When you have like too many plates
in the air, I find that it diminishes some of
(46:53):
your work. So I need, like certain I need to
really focus when I'm writing. I really need to focus
on that. I wouldn't be able to start a book,
and so my stand up set is exactly where I wanted.
So once that's an a plus, then I can move
on to another.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Endeavor like seasons kind of yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
And I also am very good about taking breaks and
really filling myself up with travel and culture and exercise
and all the stuff that feeds your soul. You know,
different people, and exposing yourself to things that aren't really
that interesting to you a lot of the time, because
you're going to find out that you know, there's so
much to gain from, like going into a situation you're
(47:30):
not that interested in, and you know, it's kind of
how I feel about the grade alone. It was such
a good example of nothing about that story is anything
I care about, Like, I have no interest in that world,
yet it's you know, because of the power of your
writing and the story, it made me so interested. And
I think of that as an example of being curious
(47:54):
enough to go to a place that you're not that
interested in.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, let's take a quick break and I have one
more short question when we come back.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Perfect and we're back.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
We are back, So Joseph writes, Dear Chelsea, I'm an
aspiring author working on my first book in a series.
I'm writing a sci fi outer space saga that I've
been creating for the past five years. It's taken a
long time to write a good chunk of it, being
as I work full time. I'm roughly fifty pages from finishing,
but lately I've hit a giant wall blocking me from finishing.
(48:29):
I know how I want the book to end, but
I get in my head and in my emotions about
imposter syndrome. How do you push past writer's block? And
also what kind of environment best suits you for writing
soft music? Coffee shop, dead silence. What's best for getting
in the groove?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Joseph, I like dead silence. I mean that's ideal, but yeah,
what about you dead.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Silence and no rituals? Like it's time, it's time to
sit down, so I sit down. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily
doing anything when I sit down, But like I said,
my muse shows up when I sit down. And in
terms of imposter syndrome and doing all of that, that's
(49:14):
all sort of you know, that's all in your head
and it's always there and we all have to deal
with it all the time. And the bottom line is
the only way through is to write your way through.
You have to get the words on the page that
you can then you know, turn into something else. You
(49:34):
just have to.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, and I agree, like I don't really have rituals
at all. I mean I meditate every day, but that's
a separate that's not for writing per se. But I
find that that sometimes can even take up more time.
Like you know, like if you sit down and you're
in front of your computer or a legal power however,
you write and you just say, like I'm gonna be
here for two hours, you're gonna start writing stuff, and
(49:58):
it might not always work or always be stuff that
you're going to use. That's part of the process too.
As far as imposter syndrome goes, it's like, that's not
that original either. Everyone feels that way, so it's almost
not even worth discussing because it's just part of the package.
Everyone's just gonna feel like, you know, you kind of
vacillate between that and then bounts of confidence and capability
(50:20):
and we all feel that way, and that's just your
voice in your head. And so the quicker you can
get those thoughts through, the quicker you're going to be
able to focus on your story and fill in the
blanks that you feel are missing.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I think even imposter syndrome like gets bigger the closer
you get to finishing something too.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, and the more you focus on it, the bigger
it becomes.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
I would say too that Joseph, if you are fifty
pages from the end, and this is this is just personal,
so this may not be true for you. But if
I get to a place where I'm fifty pages from
the end of a novel that I've been working on
for a long period of time and I cannot write
those last fifty pages, the answer to the question, is
(51:00):
in the pages that came before, there is somewhere that
you have taken a wrong turn, that you have put
your character in a situation that either lessens the conflict
or doesn't lead inevitably to your confusion. So you know,
you can push through to the end, or you can
go back to the beginning and edit to take you
(51:22):
back up to that moment. But most likely that's where
your problem lies.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
That's really good advice, And this is really a question
for each of you. Do you start with an outline
or a skeleton for what you're writing or are you
just like, let's go with the vision. I have an idea,
let's go What.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
About you, Kristin.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
I don't begin a book until I have a very
clear vision and I've done a lot of research and
I know the story intimately, and then I sit down
and write a completely different novel and just pray to
God that I can get to a better ending than
I had originally intended.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, I'm not an outline. First, my editors asked me
for an outline about three times, and I just had
to tell her that's not happening. I'm not an outlined person.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
I just do it.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
I need to just do it in my own way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Well, that's the thing about writing, and that's what's so
empowering it. There is not one size fits all. I mean,
you can get you can get information like this, and
I think what happens is when you hear from other writers,
you know what speaks to you, and you hear the
information when you need to hear it, and otherwise it
just collects in there. So the more you can listen to,
(52:33):
you know, conversations like this, I think the more you
can find the answer that you're looking for.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, yeah, Okay. Well, christ and Hannah, oh my god,
what a delight. I love you and it was so
nice to meet you. I hope I see you again
in person sometimes, I.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Hope so, I would love to. This was really great.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Thank you so much, and congrats on all of your
earned success.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
It's pretty great. It's been a good week.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yes, congrats, that's congrats.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
All right, and good luck with the book you're working on.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Thank you, Thank you all right, take care of you guys,
Take care.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Ay, but thanks Kristen.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Okay, So, Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is
my game. Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry,
I misspoke. I have added more shows. I added a
second show in Vancouver, so I have two shows in
Vancouver March twenty ninth March thirtieth. Then I've added another
show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth, so i have
two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth. For other
(53:32):
shows in Australia and New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.
And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on
May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which is May fourth,
and then I'll be at the YouTube Theater May eleventh
in Los Angeles with Matteo Lane and Vanessa Gonzalez and
Fortune Fiemester and Sam Jay. Those are my updates and
(53:55):
more shows are coming, so pay attention.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com
Hi, Catherine, Hi, Chelsea, how are you hi.
Speaker 2 (00:03):
I'm very excited about our guest today because she's an author,
and all my friends up here are reading her books
knowing and anticipation that she's coming on. So this is
an exciting time, you know how I much? I love
authors and I what's going on? What's going on? Well?
I had a whirlwind week. I was in Deer Valley
skiing this week. I was performing and then I went
(00:25):
to the Oscar parties to put my get my dress
and my glam on. And my friends and Whistler are like,
every time we see pictures of you dressed up, We're like,
that can't be you. That's not her. I'm like, that's
the real me.
Speaker 1 (00:38):
You do look nine feet tall in these column dresses,
you would look extrameline feet tall.
Speaker 2 (00:43):
I know yesterday I was skiing, I got these I
got this new ski off it sent to me from Bogner.
Shout out to Bogner Skiwear, thank you for that. And
my friends are like, oh my god, your body, your ass,
your legs. I was like, keep it coming, girls.
Speaker 1 (00:55):
I am also loving all the outtakes from your Your
birthday is shut as well. Popping up up here and there.
I'm like, damn, girl, you've been working out.
Speaker 2 (01:03):
Her niece really really got a lot of attention, and
I think she likes being in a baby beorn on
my back because she was just so chill and relaxed,
and I was like, God, do you love skiing as
much as your mama does?
Speaker 1 (01:15):
Her legs sticking out. She was like in heaven.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
She's like attacked. She looks like she's been taxidermid, which
is my type. But Doug, I just I mean, everyone
wanted to have Doug this last weekend. All my friends
and Whistler are like, who's taking care of Doug? Bernice
is popular too, but Doug is like other level. Because
I don't I have to keep you know, and I'm
trying to split them up so I don't have to
ask somebody to watch two of my dogs. But Doug
is ridiculous. Did I tell you about his diarrhea?
Speaker 3 (01:40):
Yes?
Speaker 1 (01:41):
You did?
Speaker 2 (01:42):
Well, so now he's diaryiea Doug.
Speaker 1 (01:44):
He's feeling better after his little say it's be He'll
still be diarrhea Doug in my heart forever. Hey, Chelsea,
here's a question for you. Was there a book that
everybody loved that you just could not get through.
Speaker 2 (01:58):
Yeah, a lot of books. Catch twenty two Midnight Children
by Sam and Rushdie. I could never finish that. I
didn't know what the fuck he was talking about. By
the third I was like, what, there's a man in
a boat I don't wear. So I didn't read that.
But growing up, I think the most seminal book was
The fountain Head by Ann Rand. I read that like
(02:19):
three times. I'm not sure really what I got out
of it, but I liked it and I liked rereading it.
Uh yeah, fountain Head. That was a good That was
like an eighteen year old book. Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:30):
Well, clearly you didn't get your politics from that, so
that's a good things.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
No, I did, and I don't even think I understood
what I was reading, but I liked the idea. I
liked some of the ideas in it. And then when
I would read book discussions on it, I'm like, oh wait,
I don't even know what happened. I was like, wait,
my comprehension skills were not where they needed to be.
Speaker 3 (02:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:50):
Yeah, for me, I was Pachinko and my mom like
loved this book. Everyone loved this book. But I just
I couldn't like lock In with the Carrick. So I
think I'm gonna have to watch the show of that,
because I've heard it's really really good. There's like a
series of it.
Speaker 2 (03:05):
Yeah, I remember reading Pichenko. I really liked Pachinko, but
I know, yeah, I tried to watch the show, but
I couldn't get into it. I don't like one. But
they make books into shows. It's one or the other
with me, not both for sure.
Speaker 1 (03:16):
All right, Well, we have an amazing guest today. Actually,
my mom and my mother in law are really excited
about her.
Speaker 2 (03:21):
Oh yes, yes, our guest today is the best selling
author of The Women, The Great Alone, The Nightingale, and
Flyerfly Lane, Flyer Fly Lane, and currently has the number
one selling book in America, which is called The Women.
Please welcome author Kristin Hannah.
Speaker 3 (03:39):
Hi, guys.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
First of all, she has the number one book in
the New York Times well pretty much every bestsellers list
and booklist is right now. Number one is The Women.
And you may know Kristin from her other books like
The Nightingale and The Great Alone, which Kristin, I have
to say that subject matter couldn't be less appealing to me,
and I could not put that book down like I
have sent that book. I sent two books out this
(04:02):
year as Christmas gifts to everybody. One was The Grade Alone,
and then there was another book. And people, I mean everyone,
all my friends in Whistler are all of them. We
just like referenced it all the time because it was
so painful, painful and traumatizing and beautiful and all of
the things that you're known for. So let's talk a
(04:23):
little bit about all your inspiration for these books. There's
a lot of common themes that you talk, you write about.
You write a lot about PTSD. You write a lot
about the war, whether it's Vietnam or World War Two.
I think, oh no, no, the guy in Great Alone
was from he had PTSD from Vietnam, right, So what
made you so interested in that topic?
Speaker 3 (04:42):
You know? I think, actually, Chelsea, it's because I was
a kid during the Vietnam War, and you know, it
was such a fraught time and there was so much
anger and political division. And I had a best friend,
you know, we were like in third grade, and her
father served in Vietnam and was shot down and never returned.
(05:04):
And so I've always sort of just remembered that and
thought about it, and we wore these prisoner war bracelets
where we had the serviceman's name and the number that
they were or the date that they were lost on
your wrist. And the idea was that you would wear
this until he came home. So I wore it for
decades waiting, And I think it just when I saw
(05:29):
how the Vietnam vets were treated when they came home,
it just really stuck with me. And you know, and
obviously we've had wars since then, but I just think
it's so important that if we're going to ask people
to go off and serve their nation and put themselves
in harms way for us, that we care for them
(05:50):
when they come back. And so I keep coming back
to this issue that means a lot to me.
Speaker 2 (05:55):
M Yeah, it is pretty it's a pretty embarrassing when
you find out what vets have when they returned, and
how many of our homeless population are vets who aren't
taken care of by our own government who they sacrifice for.
It doesn't I mean, how do you look at it, Like,
how old were you when the Vietnam War was happening.
Speaker 3 (06:14):
Well, let's see, I was thirteen, I think when it ended,
and so I was, you know, like in kindergarten or
something when it started.
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Jesus, that's a long time. When you compare the way
we are now with everything that's going on in the
world now, and you think back to that time, what
strikes you in terms of this position our country is in,
or the temperature of our country maybe.
Speaker 3 (06:37):
Well, the political division that we're seeing now and that
we were seeing, you know, during the pandemic and for
the last you know, several years, felt very much like Vietnam,
which is why, you know, I think I chose this
moment to write the book. But it was a very
different time because in terms of the political division, in
(07:00):
simplest terms, you could say that it was sort of
young versus old, and left versus right. And you know,
there was this whole movement, the whole Flower power, Make
Love not War, you know, all of that kind of stuff.
So the what we were fighting about was much I think,
much more philosophical.
Speaker 2 (07:22):
I mean, right, philosophical, same kind of divisions, but people,
there's very it was very disparate like being in that war.
First of all, the way that our government lied to
us over and over again about what was happening over there,
which I'm sure still happens every single day in our
country in whatever war we're in. We're being lied to.
So that's disappointing. But in terms of like, I want
to talk a little bit about your writing process because
(07:44):
you're so prolific. I mean, I don't know. I can't
believe you when you DMed me and said have you
read my book yet? I'm like, you wrote another book
when I just got done with the last one. So
I want to talk about that because how do you
what is your process and how long does it take
you and what do you do you every day?
Speaker 3 (08:01):
Well, so for you, okay, so we have to go
back a little bit. I started this career. I used
to be a lawyer, and I started this career because
I got pregnant and had a baby and wanted to
be an at home mom. So I wanted something that
I could do that was sort of for myself but
was at home, which meant that in the beginning, you know,
I wrote during nap time, and I've just sort of
(08:24):
continued on and so for years I wrote a book
a year, and then a couple of times I would
take two years, like Firefly Lane. If I wanted to
sort of redefine myself, and I think when I reached
a certain age, I and with it corresponds to writing
The Nightingale. I started going three years between books. What's
(08:47):
weird about now is the books keep selling. I mean,
like The Grade Alone. I mean it was out in
twenty eighteen, but people were still discovering it in twenty
twenty two. So it sort of feels like I'm having
another book instantly, But really, it's been three years.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
And did it hit number one? Was it very popular
when it came out or did it gain its popularity
after a couple of years?
Speaker 3 (09:12):
The Great Elege So it hit number one, and you
know it was popular. Actually, you know, the Great Alone
popularity surprised me. I didn't actually because, as you point out,
it was a dark subject matter and you know, it
was it was kind of difficult. So I've been really
surprised that people have responded to both the beauty and
(09:33):
the harshness of Alaska and the sort of difficulty of
that relationship.
Speaker 2 (09:39):
Have you you spent time in Alaska?
Speaker 3 (09:40):
Right? Yeah. My family's business is sport fishing lodges, and
they have one in Alaska. They have a bear camp
and a fishing camp.
Speaker 2 (09:49):
Yeah, I guess you. I mean, I don't see how
you could possibly write about that, that aloneeness unless you've
experienced it. And when anyone wants to talk about a
loneeness or feeling alone, they need to read that book
and think about elast because that's when you're really fucking alone.
I mean, that is one of the most unfeeling back
drops I could ever ever imagine. Okay, so what's your
(10:10):
process writing?
Speaker 3 (10:11):
Like?
Speaker 2 (10:11):
Do you write every morning? Do you write it? You
write nap time?
Speaker 3 (10:13):
What?
Speaker 2 (10:14):
That's what you used to do? But I mean, are
you disciplined? You must be.
Speaker 3 (10:17):
Yeah, I am really disciplined. I mean it's a it's
a two prong thing. First of all, it's a job.
And you know, I remember like when I was a lawyer,
nobody said, hey, do you feel like practicing law today?
You just went in and sort of, you know, did
your job. And so that's what I try to do.
And in terms of, you know, the writing process, I'm
(10:37):
asked all the time, well, what about when inspiration and
when you need the muse to show up and when
you need to be inspired? And I really find that
the mews shows up when I sit down, and you
know that if I go in search of it, I'm
more likely to find it. So yes, I'm very disciplined.
I sit down every day. I write pretty much from
(10:59):
seven to four or how much with my husband and
you know, and then I write. And then what I
do now is I take months off where I'm not writing.
So I you know, I work fifty hours a week
when I am writing, and then I'll take you know,
two or three months off and travel or hang out,
(11:19):
drink wine whatever.
Speaker 2 (11:21):
Yeah, I'm with you on that. There's a time, like
you know, to harvest, and then there's a time for
so you know, there's a time for planting, and there's
a time for harvesting. And if we don't, like as creatives,
if people, if we're not filling ourselves up with real life,
it's like then what we have? What kind of output
do we have? I'm with you on the three months off.
I love taking my vacation time very seriously because I
(11:41):
need to experience things and you know, experience stories that
I can then put back, spit back out and regurg
you to it's true. And without that life experience, it's like, well,
what you know, I think that is so important, and
people don't give, especially American culture. It's not about that.
You're not supposed to be taking so many breaks. It's
out a hustle, hustle, hustle, But you can hustle and
(12:03):
also take breaks. Those two things can work together. What
happens when you find out you're number one on the
New York Times list.
Speaker 3 (12:08):
Well, Champagne is sort of the you know, the first thing,
and I think almost it's a great sense of relief.
It's joyful, obviously, it's exciting. I love all of that,
but it's it's mostly just okay. So I think it's
probably the same for anyone, for you, for anyone when
you get reviews in when you realize that something that
(12:30):
you have poured your heart and soul in in private, alone,
behind closed doors for years is being embraced by people,
and for this book even more than number one. What
has been so huge is sort of the outpouring of
love and support and gratitude really from female and male
(12:52):
veterans and their families. And I can't tell you how
many you know, women have come up to me crying saying,
you know, thank you for just reminding people that we
matter in the service that we're out there that we're
we're working, we're doing our best, and I think you
get to an age I'm certainly there now where you
(13:16):
realize that remembrance and gratitude matters. You know, you don't
want to do all of this in avoid whether it's
stay at home motherhood or your job or your creative process.
I think we all need to be seen.
Speaker 2 (13:32):
Absolutely. I love that. Yeah, I think that is the
one thing. I think that is the one thing that
you know growing up, when you're a kid and you
and you are seen. When you feel seen right by
a teacher or by your aunt or uncle and not
in a creepy way, that really does empower you. Like
if someone notices you and notices whatever you're good at
(13:53):
and is encouraging. I mean, being seen, I think is
the number one thing people don't feel right. When people
feel that kind of tenderness or aloneness or vulnerability, they
just feel like they're not understood or misunderstood.
Speaker 3 (14:05):
It can change your life. I mean one teacher coming
up and saying, I had a teacher in eighth grade
who said, you know what, you have a power here
people like you. You don't have to be so afraid
all the time, because I went to a million different
schools and I was always the new kid in the
wrong jeans with the wrong haircut, and so I tried
(14:27):
to be invisible. And you know, in eighth grade someone said,
you know, hey, you don't have to do that, and
it was really pretty life changing.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
I had a teacher who actually passed away this last
week named missus Sheckman, and she was my third grade teacher,
and I always was problematic and she would take me
on the weekends to her husband. She hear her husband
had a house down the Jersey shore, and she was
trying to help my parents. She's like, let me guide her,
let me help her. Because I was so full of
it and angst. I just wanted to be a woman.
(14:56):
I couldn't handle childhood. I was like, this is so annoying.
And she would take me and she would sit with
me and just be like, do you understand You're going
to do amazing things in this world? Like You're going
to be incredible. But it wasn't at a time where
I ever thought that I was only eight or nine.
I was like, well, yeah, whatever. I just couldn't And
the time that she spent with me, I can't remember
anything she said to me, but I know that feeling,
(15:18):
and it was I felt so cared for and so
special that she went out of her way to spend
time with me. That I will never forget that. And
I always think of that when I think of children,
you know, because I don't have a high tolerance for them,
so I really have to pick and choose the ones
that I want to be around. But it is so
impactful to have that kind of influence. Now do you
mentor anyone Are you into that in terms of writing,
(15:41):
Like do you help other authors?
Speaker 3 (15:42):
I do? I do. I haven't helped I haven't worked
with a lot of beginning novelists, but I work with,
you know, a sort of a big group of us
who all sort of came of age at the same time.
And there's something so powerful. I was going to point
out what you were going to what you were saying
earlier about children and being you know, mentored like that.
(16:03):
It's especially important for girls, and I found, like with
the women female writers community, there was for a long
time this don't ever tell anybody what you're doing, what
you're making, what you're getting, you know, keep everything very competitive.
And so I've got this big group of female friends
(16:24):
where we share information now, and that's another thing that's
kind of life changing, is women sort of owning their
own ambition and coming together to share information that is
withheld from us.
Speaker 2 (16:40):
Yeah, which also seems like a newer thing. Females supporting females.
It's like we finally cracked the code and we're like, oh, wait,
why the hell are we listening to men tell us
to you know, they're the ones that are separating us
and making us so competitive. And it feels like a
recent thing where women are really showing up for each
other and understanding we're not each other's enemy. You know,
(17:01):
we actually have to stick together and become the most
powerful version of ourselves.
Speaker 3 (17:05):
Absolutely, and that's one of the best things I see
happening around us now. I mean, when I was a
young lawyer, there were very few you know, female lawyers
that were partners or you know, we're running the firms
or anything, and there was very little mentoring going on,
and it all felt very competitive, like there was only
room for one at a time. And I think we
(17:27):
have all learned how important it is to you know,
offer a hand to the people coming to the girls
coming up behind us.
Speaker 2 (17:35):
Yeah, you write, I mean there's a lot of female
friendships in the books. Obviously, there's always, you know, a
strong connection, especially in the Women and the Great Alone,
you know, that community in Alaska and the Nightingale, and
so that must feel important for you to demonstrate, you know, absolutely,
and that was something you know, Like I said, I
moved around a lot, so so childhood friendships are rare.
Speaker 3 (17:58):
And I think it was until I was in college
and then a young mother and a young wife and
all those things where I really sort of understood this
truth that had not been sort of passed along to
me anyway for whatever reason. My mom died very young,
so maybe that's part of it. But this truth that
(18:19):
it is your girlfriends who will carry you through life,
who will be there when you know, when the shit
hits the fan. It's your girlfriends that you call when
you feel like a bad mother. It's your girlfriends when
you want to celebrate anything that happens. And I think
it's so important because we come together, we witness each
(18:39):
other's lives, we are each other's support. In many ways,
we're soulmates, you know, with our best friends. And I
think that's kind of an idea that is, it feels
new even though it shouldn't be.
Speaker 2 (18:54):
I know, isn't that so weird? It's so within us
and in our DNA, like as a you know, we're
so maternal just by nature. We have to really unlearn
all of these things that have been kind of put
on us. How old were you when your mom passed?
Speaker 3 (19:09):
I think it was about twenty four?
Speaker 2 (19:11):
Okay, So how does that affect you? Being a mother?
Losing your mother at that age?
Speaker 3 (19:16):
You know, it's hard. I mean it's really hard, and
then you have to rely on your dad. And my
dad was of course broken at the time as well,
we all were, you know, she was so young, forty six,
and so at twenty four you don't realize how impactful
this is going to be because you are at that
(19:36):
age where you think you've got it nailed. You know everything,
you know, you're the smartest girl in the room. And
so it wasn't until I would say, really almost forty
when it really struck me. I didn't know my mother
and I had to sort of go and search for her,
you know, try to find her myself. And I did
(19:58):
that the way I do ever every thing, which is
through writing and so that's why I wrote the book
Firefly Lane, about a woman who is, you know, dealing
with breast cancer, because that was my best way to
try to figure out, like, what did this look like
from her side?
Speaker 2 (20:16):
Yeah, and I'm curious at how it actually impacts your parenting,
because you know that you're giving her something that you
didn't necessarily get for that long.
Speaker 3 (20:26):
Yeah, I mean what it does. I think always in
the back of your mind is this idea that being
a parent is really important, being there and showing up
is really important, but also understanding I think that you
have a finite amount of time and knowing sort of
(20:48):
I guess the peaks and valleys that the relationship you know,
will go through. And I just always try, to the
best of my ability to never sort of do something
that I think is across the line, because you just
never know how much time you have.
Speaker 2 (21:05):
Yeah, Okay, Wow, we're going to take a break and
we're going to be right back and we're back with
Kristin Hannah. I'm so happy to have you on the
podcast today, Katherine. Do we have some callers we're going
to give advice, Kristin, so buckle up.
Speaker 1 (21:22):
Our first email really just has to do with recommendations.
Our listeners love books and are constantly asking for more recommendations.
So Kathy says, my name is Kathy Quinn. I'm from Dublin, Ireland.
I'm about to go on vacation and I would love
a list of book recommendations. Kathy.
Speaker 3 (21:40):
Oh, okay, So Kathy, you're not telling me what you
actually like to read.
Speaker 2 (21:44):
So no, I tricky.
Speaker 3 (21:46):
There's a book called We Begin at the End by
Chris Whitaker that I love. I almost always recommend Shadow
of the Wind by Carlos Ruiza Phone And for a
vacation read, I mean, Lessons in Chemistry is way too easy,
so I will go with remarkably bright creatures.
Speaker 2 (22:05):
I have to say I agree with I felt Lessons
of Chemistry. I felt like I was reading like a
school book, like not a school book, and it was
just too light and too easy. I'm like, no, I
need it a little bit a step up, no offense.
So I think Bonnie Garland wrote that, right Armus, Yeah, Garmus, Garmus. Sorry,
it's a great book. But I also felt that way.
And also I just got Belly of the Elephant. Loving
(22:27):
the Belly of the Elephant.
Speaker 4 (22:28):
You guys.
Speaker 2 (22:28):
Have you guys heard about that book.
Speaker 3 (22:29):
I didn't read that.
Speaker 2 (22:30):
It's going around with my Whistler crew, so they gave
one to me for my birthday. So I'm going to
get into that as soon as I'm done with the Women.
But I also would say to our caller, just the
Great Alone is not ever going to disappoint you if
you haven't read that. That is the best page turning emotionally,
like you're so invested and you feel like you've been
spun around the spin cycle and like an a laundromat
(22:51):
after you read that, because you are have been through
every kind of gamut of emotion and it's just so beautiful.
And I'm sure many of our listens haven't yet read it,
but the way that you ended that book was done
in such a tasteful, non cheesy way and believable. Like
I loved that, because sometimes when books have that kind
(23:12):
of ending, they can go it's just too much, like
it's like almost like a pad com Yeah yeah, and
you're like, no, that's not real. But this felt just
perfect everything about it from start to finish. It's just
blown away.
Speaker 1 (23:24):
I'd see a couple of recommendations of things I've read recently.
This is an old one, but I just finished Into
thin Air, which is John Crackhouer, and he talks about
being on Mount Everest during the deadliest year of Everest expeditions.
I also just read Over the Top, which is Jonathan
van Ness's first book, and I really loved that. It
(23:44):
was really a lot more frank than I expected, and
so that was great. But one of my favorites that
I've read recently is The Square of Sevens. It's by
Laura Shephard Robinson and it follows a woman in the
seventeen hundreds who sort of does some divination and reads
cards for people. It's really really cool and exciting, and
I will say there is something about the way you write,
(24:05):
Kristin that I found myself, especially with the women, but
also with the grade alone, Like you're reading, but you
forget that you're reading it. You're just seeing it in
your mind. You're just sort of like visually seeing this,
experiencing the characters, and they're just there their Yemi reads.
Speaker 2 (24:20):
It's pure escapism. You're writing like it's really just takes
you away, and which is what you want from a book,
at least I do.
Speaker 3 (24:27):
But really as I'm writing, it almost feels like I'm
watching a movie and transcribing it. It's so you know,
fully formed in my head, and so I think that's
why I mean, I hear cinematic all the time, and
I think I am it's a huge you know, visual person.
Speaker 2 (24:44):
Has anyone bought the rights to the grade alone?
Speaker 3 (24:47):
It is actually in development for whatever that means. And
Warner Brothers has just bought the women and it looks
actually like the Nightingale may film this year, which is
pretty exciting after you know, co and the strikes and
everything that we've had to deal with.
Speaker 2 (25:04):
Wow, that's awesome. Congratulations. I love that.
Speaker 1 (25:08):
Yeah. Well, let's jump to our first caller here. Our
first caller is Nicole and she is a wellness coach
and writer. She says, Dear Chelsea, I'm writing to ask
you about writing. I'm twenty eight years old and have
endured a lot in my lifetime and feel called to
write about it, but I still have a lot of
(25:29):
doubts if my story is enough. Last September I had
a personal essay published in The Cut. I lost my
dad on nine to eleven, and I'm still searching for
who he was. Was the title of it. Right now,
I'm in the final sprint of writing my memoir along
with a group of female writers doing the same. I
have about twenty five k words down. My goal is
to hit forty K, but I can't help but feel
(25:50):
stuck and resistant when writing the rest. I've been writing
in no particular order, and I feel like my story
doesn't have the needed beats to flow that other memoirs
en compass.
Speaker 3 (26:00):
Ooh.
Speaker 1 (26:00):
I've been piecing together memories and scenes and lessons that
stand out in my memory from the past twenty or
so years. It's been challenging to capture a moment in time,
so I include all of it. I keep reminding myself
that it's just a first draft, but it doesn't make
it any easier to sit down and write the hard stuff.
Reading Life Will Be The Death of Me was a
beautiful and soul crushing experience. As a reader, I admire
(26:21):
how vulnerable you are surrounding the loss of your brother
Chet and its impact on you. So my question for
you is, how do you push past resistance and write
about super personal, vulnerable moments from your life and childhood.
What wisdom can you share from your experience writing previous
books and the one you're working on now. Thanks so much, Nicole.
Speaker 2 (26:39):
Hi, Nicole, Hi, Hi. You're very lucky because we have
a very big author on today. I'm Kristin. I'm going
to let you go first because I consider you much
more professional than I do myself.
Speaker 3 (26:52):
First of all, I find it extremely difficult to write
out of order because you lose the connective tissue you
of one moment to the next, and then you're trying
to sort of recapture what you were doing before. But
if you're writing what you should be writing, you're slightly
changed in every single moment, and those need to progress.
(27:14):
So I would say that first of all, and I
would also say that everyone's first draft is terrible and
frightening and difficult, and you're sure that it's not good enough,
And the point of that is to sit down and
to push through and get to the end, because really,
only at the end can you look back with clear
(27:36):
eyes and see what the best story is and how
to tell it. You have to get all of that
out of the way first.
Speaker 2 (27:45):
I agree with that writing out of order can be
frustrating because you kind of lose your tempo, and then
I always have to write chronologically. I started this book
by just writing essays and then I was like, oh,
we'll put them together, and I'm like, no, no, I actually
have to go in a time order. So I agree
with that, and I also think, like, first of all,
it's amazing that you're sitting down and writing a book.
(28:06):
So patch yourself on the back for actually even taking
on that task. You've set yourself up for success with
a group of other women that are also doing the
same thing as you. And your first draft isn't going
to be the draft that you want, but it's just
important to get just keep moving, you know what I mean,
towards your goal and keep writing and you don't get
the answers, like you know, sometimes I'm writing something, I'm like,
(28:26):
this isn't going to work with this and this doesn't
connect to this, and then like sometimes in the middle
of the day, it just pops into my head the answer.
Because when you spend enough time being creative like that,
creativity begets more creativity. So it's just like Kristin was
saying earlier, you weren't on the phone yet, but when
she sits down and she writes, you have to put
(28:47):
the time in for that effort and then it does
kind of all come together when it's supposed to. But
you're not supposed to be perfect in your first book.
I learned more in my first book and the editing process,
and I'm on my seventh book. So just all of that,
like sentence structure and thought structure and where this goes
and times and places like all of that stuff. There's
(29:08):
so much to learn in the editing process that you
just have to know that that is going to be.
I think for me that is the most important ingredient
for anything I do, is the editing, whether it's my
stand up, whether it's my books or being on TV.
Like you always want to edit to amplify. That's what
I always think. You don't need to have everything in there,
(29:29):
but you can put everything down and then you go
in and go, this isn't necessary, this isn't necessary, and
tighten everything to make it just really like full, juicy
and fast, you know, moving, moving, moving.
Speaker 4 (29:40):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (29:41):
To add on to that, which I think is absolutely true,
the act of writing is, especially your own story, is
so cathartic and so powerful and it changes you and
just simply the fact that you undertake this and you
write it you know, don't focus too much on is
(30:01):
this publishable? Where will this go? What will I do
with it? Just sit down and focus on the idea
of you telling your story for you, and don't you think, Chelsea,
it's just so powerful to do that and getting to
the end is the crucial moment. So just keep going.
Speaker 1 (30:22):
Nicole, So you've written about losing your dad in this
very traumatic way and you've published an article about it.
Is that what you're finding the most difficult to write
about or is it some of the other you know,
connective tissue the other parts of your life.
Speaker 4 (30:36):
Yeah, I think it's kind of revisiting in it and
continuing to revisit in revisions and just kind of constantly
looking at it or thinking about it. Is like the
process of a writer. But I also was diagnosed with
leukemia when I was fifteen, so about ten years after
I lost my dad, and that's kind of where the
story begins. And then I'm going back in time a
little bit there with how this relates to the philoss
(30:57):
with my dad and how they all kind of come
to get So he was wondering, when you're writing about
these moments of grief and complicated grief, Like, how do
you kind of structure or process you're writing so that
you're not feeling that all the time or you're kind
of getting back to the present.
Speaker 2 (31:12):
Well, I think in any natural like rhythm, you're going
to be right. I mean I remember writing the Life
will be the Death of Me parts of it, and
I was bawling crying writing it. But like anything with grief,
you're not sitting in it all the time. So you
have to be very gentle with yourself, like when you're
having those moments, have those moments. That's where the most
(31:33):
beautiful stuff can come from, you know, deep pain and grief,
and so allow yourself the time to sit with that
and don't make such strict rules for yourself. Right, You're
going to find your own rhythms about things. You're going
to find out like when the best time of day
is to write. If you haven't already, you're going to
find out Okay, I just wrote this, and now I
need a break to write something a little bit lighter.
(31:54):
You're going to get into your rhythm. So just pay
close attention to you. When you've had a really productive day,
be like, okay, what was that that led to that
productive day, you know, so you can really just keep
cultivating the best habits for you and I'm not worried
about it at all. For you, like this is the
process and your first book is it can be terrifying,
so it's just already bold that you're doing it.
Speaker 4 (32:16):
Thank you. I really appreciate that. Yeah, the balance between
the creativity and then like you know, having to produce
something too and having something you know, I want out there.
But I think having less pressure and kind of figuring
out what works for me is the process I've been
on and I can lead into that more.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
Yeah. Okay, well, good luck to you. I can't wait
to read your book.
Speaker 4 (32:37):
Thank you so much. I really appreciate talking to everyone's day.
Speaker 1 (32:40):
Thanks to call.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
Thank you, Nicole, take care bye. She seemed like an author.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
Yeah, I know. And when I first talked to her,
she's like, oh, well, I you know, I'm a wellness
coach and stuff and yeah, I'm not really a rite
And I was like, no, you are a writer. I
was like that, you know, that's your day job, that's
you know, you might have a nine to five.
Speaker 2 (32:58):
But it's just so funny that men will always say
like that. You know, it's like we can't ever just
lean in, like I'm going to be a writer. I'm
writing my first book. It's you know, no, men have
no problem. Yeah I'm an author before they publish a
fucking thing.
Speaker 1 (33:14):
I wish like a we could gift to all women,
like ten percent of the confidence of like a twenty
two year old white guy who's just graduated from college,
Like just ten percent.
Speaker 3 (33:23):
It'd be perfect.
Speaker 2 (33:24):
My nephew Max will start with your confidence.
Speaker 3 (33:27):
Perfect.
Speaker 1 (33:28):
Oh and I just wanted to add two for Nicole.
We chatted about it. She has cancer free now, so
she no longer has leukemia and she's doing great. So
our next caller is Sarah. Sarah is thirty six, and
she's here in La, she says, Dear Chelsea. Last year
I left my full time copywriting job to pursue my
dream of feminist writing. Since then, I've started a weekly
(33:51):
newsletter that has amassed a pretty decent following and continues
to grow daily. I've also landed a few big byelines
on hot feminist topics, writing a book that uses some
of my own story to highlight how evangelical Christianity and
purity culture harmed millennial girls. Since it draws heavily upon
my own experiences. My book will implicate people from my past,
(34:12):
such as my ex husband, my old church, and, to
my great discomfort, even my family. I don't want to
use this opportunity to bash or hurt anyone, but I
do want to be honest about what happens so I
can help other women. How do I stay vulnerable about
my experiences without undermining my credibility and looking like I
have an axe to grind? I admire your candidness and
(34:33):
fairness when talking about your own painful moments of the past,
and I would love your insight. Sarah.
Speaker 2 (34:39):
Hi, Sarah, Hi, Hi, Hi. This is Kristin Hannah, our
special guest today.
Speaker 3 (34:46):
So nice, Thank you, Hi, Sarah.
Speaker 2 (34:48):
So are you you're writing? Is it a novel? Are
you making it fiction?
Speaker 5 (34:52):
No, it's it's kind of a memoir. Plus it's going
to be kind of a deep dive into evangelical purity culture.
And I got married at twenty two because of that
whole ecosystem. So it would, you know, talk about generally
how that whole y two k era harmed women and
girls like me, So it would use my story, but
(35:14):
kind of do more of a cultural deep dive.
Speaker 2 (35:18):
Well in the process. As Kristin can attest as well,
you are going everyone is writing about themselves to some degree,
and whether it's fiction or nonfiction, like we all are.
And if you're going to write a nonfiction memoir, you're
going to have to change the names and the people. Anyway,
it's a legal issue, so you're gonna they're going to
step in your editor and help you with that, because
(35:40):
you don't have the liberty to, like, you know, tell
other people's stories. Unfortunately. I know that because I've gotten
in trouble many, many times. So you do have to
kind of disguise everybody. I mean, you could still tell
your story, you're just kind of protecting the people that
aren't agreeing to be written about unless you can get
their permission. So I wouldn't really worry about that, you know.
I mean, Kristin, you've probably to do that. I mean,
(36:01):
you're writing more fiction, obviously, But what has been your
experience with change when you're basing a character on a
real person or on an experience in your life.
Speaker 3 (36:11):
Do you know what. I've actually been really careful not
to include real people in my fiction to a great
extent for this very reason. And since I don't do memoirs,
I can't really speak to that. But it's it's interesting
because I mean, maybe you know this Chelsea, if she
calls it a novel and everyone is you know, fictional
(36:34):
and it doesn't look too much like her actual husband,
where is the line there?
Speaker 2 (36:40):
Yeah, I would say that that would be a better
avenue for you not to have to worry about it,
because once you fictionalize it, then you can color it
with whatever you want, you know. I mean, you can
do that in a memoir, but it's that's not really
what a memoir is. But have you thought about making
it fiction? No, But that's really interesting.
Speaker 5 (36:57):
That's a really interesting idea.
Speaker 2 (36:59):
Because then you can kind of just let it loose,
you know what I mean?
Speaker 3 (37:02):
Yeah, and you could address issues that perhaps you didn't
personally face, but you feel, you know, need to be
explored and need to be talked about. And then you
could use your personal story as sort of marketing and
you know, and how to sell the book because you
would bring so much to a novel as you know,
(37:23):
as someone to talk to.
Speaker 5 (37:24):
Oh that's really interesting. Okay, Yeah, Well the first book
I wrote was a novel, so I have experience doing that,
so that that's I had not considered that.
Speaker 2 (37:34):
That's a great idea, Yeah, because it's like historical fiction
what you're talking about. Yeah, Okay, well, great problem solved,
I think, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:43):
And I mean I am someone who went through some
of the same stuff where like you know, youth group
and purity culture and all this stuff that like, really,
you know, I've found stuff rattling around in my brain
decades later that I'm like, I didn't know that was
still in there. A couple of books that I recommend
to for anybody who did go through that, Pure by
Linda ka Klin was something that helped me sort of
(38:03):
unearth a lot of those things rattling around in there
that weren't very healthy. And then also Kate Kennedy just
wrote a book called One in a Millennial that's on
the New York Times bestseller list at the moment, and
it's a lot about uh, millennial culture, but also some
of the religious stuff that maybe mess us up a
little bit.
Speaker 3 (38:19):
So well, thank you both, Thank you.
Speaker 5 (38:21):
Nice to meet you both. I've been such a huge
fan of both of you, so I appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (38:26):
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (38:26):
Yeah, can keep us posted, Okay, Okay, we'll do by awesome,
And if anyone wants to check out Sarah's feminist newsletter,
it is called Reclaiming and you can find it at
reclaimingthewsletter dot com. I kind of wonder too, Christ And
I wonder if you you know, your career is at
the point where one book feeds into the next, as
(38:47):
far as like you have a following and this sort
of thing. Is there any advice you'd give to beginner
authors or writers as far as connecting with a publisher,
selling your book, getting the word out there, maybe on
social media, any of that stuff you work.
Speaker 3 (39:01):
You know, when you're a beginning writer, everything seems like
it's about one book and how does this book sell?
How does this book get reviewed? What happens? And I mean,
I'm living proof that a career is made book by
book by book, but also in the aggregate, and a
book that failed, you know, ten years ago, can suddenly
(39:24):
be on the bestseller list. And so I think the
important thing is, you know, to just if this is
what you want to do, if you want to be
a working writer, then you have to make the sacrifices
that are necessary to do that. You know, you have
to find the time to sit down, you have to
actually write. You need to find a group of people
(39:46):
that support you because it's a lonely endeavor. And then
you have to not give up. You know, you have
to not let failure derail you. You have to not
let anything push you aside and keep believing in yourself
and your vision and believing that like I said earlier,
(40:06):
the writing itself is the most important thing, you know.
It's sort of if you build it, they will follow,
you know, if you do your best time after time
after time, and you get lucky, you can have a
career or a job at this. But it will never
be easy. And I don't know about you, Chelsea, but
like every new endeavor, I think, can I do it again?
(40:30):
Do I still have it in me? And you just
have to battle that, I think, like we were talking
about earlier, especially as women.
Speaker 2 (40:37):
But it's so interesting though, because you know it's like
do I still have it in me? And I would
argue that we get better as we get older, you know,
in terms of creative Like I loved what you just said.
It's book by book. It reminds me of that bird
By bird By and LaMotte that book because somebody should
write a book called book by books it's for authors,
because that's so true. You think, you know, it's everything's
(40:59):
writing on this one book, and it's like, that's just
not the case. I've had very successful books and I've
had less successful books, and it is an aggregate and
it is it's like it's the whole collection, you know,
So everything is just kind of a step when you're
when you're a writer, it's like, this is your first book,
and you know that there's going to be one after
that and another one after that, and it doesn't have
(41:21):
to be the most successful book in the world for
you to get another book deal. You know, all you
need is your creative artistic intelligence and you're gonna figure
it out. But I also think when when you have
a clear vision about something and you can see it,
like what Kristin what you were saying about when you're writing.
I feel that way about things when i'm really like,
(41:41):
I guess in your flow state. You know, when you're
in your flow state and it's just easy and it
comes to you, but you're very clear about where you're going.
It's kind of like it's almost impossible not to succeed
when you have such a clear vision.
Speaker 3 (41:57):
I think that's true, and it's long as Like the corollarily,
I would add to that is what you said earlier,
editing matters. You know, you can easily get to a
point where, and especially beginning writers, where they just think
everything is perfect as it comes out to them because
they feel like they're in that flow state. And the
fact is, you you know, you have to be an
(42:19):
artist for half of the project, and then at some
point you have to be a business person. You you know,
you have to look at your work with really cold,
hard eyes and try to make it the best. And
I think one of the things that's great about writing
in terms of for the long term is the more
(42:41):
you change and grow, the more your work changes and grows,
and the more you bring to the table. And that's
I think pretty exciting to sort of watch yourself, you know,
improve over time.
Speaker 2 (42:55):
Yes, yes, that is very satisfying.
Speaker 1 (42:58):
And kind of along those lines, I've read somewhere that
you had the idea for the women like decades ago,
but you didn't feel like you were ready to tackle that.
Is there a way that you know when it's time
to tackle an older idea or when you're ready.
Speaker 3 (43:12):
Well, when I first pitched a book about Vietnam, it
was nineteen ninety seven, so I was thirty seven, and
I had an editor who had been at Berkeley in
nineteen sixty eight, and she was a very smart woman.
And that's one thing I would say, surround yourself with
the smartest people you can and then listen to them.
I mean, that's super important. And she said, you know, honey,
(43:35):
you're not old enough and you're not good enough, but
come back when you are, because it's a good idea.
And in nineteen ninety seven, no one wanted to talk
or hear about Vietnam, and so I just kind of
waited and I kept it was almost like my Bellweather,
like okay, am I old enough? Am I good enough?
And I started realizing, okay, I'm now old enough. And
part of that was motherhood. Part of that was seeing
(43:58):
the world change around me. Part of that was understanding
things about government and politics and American society that I
could not possibly have understood when I was, you know, younger.
And part of was leaning into risk taking and saying, Okay,
I've done this for a very long time, and I
(44:22):
am ready to fail if that's what it takes and
this is my moment.
Speaker 1 (44:27):
And Chelsea, do you have thoughts on that as well
as far as one part of your story when it's
time to tell that going back to things that might
be old or painful or no.
Speaker 2 (44:37):
I mean, I think you just know when you're like
you've got, when you've ready to drum something up, you know,
you're like, I have output. I have enough now, I've
collected enough new information that I need to get some
ideas out there. You know, the book I'm writing now,
I've had a more I was trying to like jam
it in and jam it in and write and like
(44:58):
I was like, okay, let me write here and write there,
And it's like that's not a natural flow when you're
doing that. Now, when I've been a you know, whistler
for a month or two, that's when I get my
writing done. When I could do it every morning, the
first thing I do is get my computer and write
for three hours. And half of my writing is editing.
Like I'm always editing. I'm always looking through things again
(45:18):
because I just I find that to be the sharpest way,
especially for comedy, you need to have a good editor,
and you need to be a good self editor. That's
another thing. You know, people can get really married to
their own ideas and thoughts. And when Kristen says, listen
to people who are smarter than you, you know, I do
defer to my editors every single time when they're like
(45:39):
this isn't really working or I'm not somebody who has
to be like, no, I need this, I need this.
I'm very open to feedback, and I think that is
a very critical you know, because some people are too
open to feedback and they don't you know, they kind
of lose themselves to the feedback versus being so obstinate
you can't hear any constructive criticism. There's a nice place
in the middle to find where you are open to feedback,
(46:01):
but you still have an idea of where you're going
and you're married to that idea and people can edit
around that, but you have to stay true to what
your vision is.
Speaker 3 (46:10):
So, Chelsea, how do you I mean, You've got a
lot of creative pursuits going at any one time, right,
lots of different avenues for your creativity. How do you
balance when is the time for what? And when to
lean in and when to take a moment and wait,
(46:30):
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (46:31):
I'm a little bit of a you know, like a
live wire. I just kind of I get in a
good state, like a flow state with my stand up
and then I'm like, you know what, I'm loving this
so much. I'm loving the show. I'm going to extend
it and do fifty more dates before I shoot my special.
When I'm writing, if I'm only writing, then I really
get into writing. When you have like too many plates
in the air, I find that it diminishes some of
(46:53):
your work. So I need, like certain I need to
really focus when I'm writing. I really need to focus
on that. I wouldn't be able to start a book,
and so my stand up set is exactly where I wanted.
So once that's an a plus, then I can move
on to another.
Speaker 1 (47:05):
Endeavor like seasons kind of yeah.
Speaker 2 (47:08):
And I also am very good about taking breaks and
really filling myself up with travel and culture and exercise
and all the stuff that feeds your soul. You know,
different people, and exposing yourself to things that aren't really
that interesting to you a lot of the time, because
you're going to find out that you know, there's so
much to gain from, like going into a situation you're
(47:30):
not that interested in, and you know, it's kind of
how I feel about the grade alone. It was such
a good example of nothing about that story is anything
I care about, Like, I have no interest in that world,
yet it's you know, because of the power of your
writing and the story, it made me so interested. And
I think of that as an example of being curious
(47:54):
enough to go to a place that you're not that
interested in.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
Well, let's take a quick break and I have one
more short question when we come back.
Speaker 2 (48:01):
Perfect and we're back.
Speaker 1 (48:06):
We are back, So Joseph writes, Dear Chelsea, I'm an
aspiring author working on my first book in a series.
I'm writing a sci fi outer space saga that I've
been creating for the past five years. It's taken a
long time to write a good chunk of it, being
as I work full time. I'm roughly fifty pages from finishing,
but lately I've hit a giant wall blocking me from finishing.
(48:29):
I know how I want the book to end, but
I get in my head and in my emotions about
imposter syndrome. How do you push past writer's block? And
also what kind of environment best suits you for writing
soft music? Coffee shop, dead silence. What's best for getting
in the groove?
Speaker 2 (48:44):
Joseph, I like dead silence. I mean that's ideal, but yeah,
what about you dead.
Speaker 3 (48:50):
Silence and no rituals? Like it's time, it's time to
sit down, so I sit down. Doesn't mean I'm necessarily
doing anything when I sit down, But like I said,
my muse shows up when I sit down. And in
terms of imposter syndrome and doing all of that, that's
(49:14):
all sort of you know, that's all in your head
and it's always there and we all have to deal
with it all the time. And the bottom line is
the only way through is to write your way through.
You have to get the words on the page that
you can then you know, turn into something else. You
(49:34):
just have to.
Speaker 2 (49:36):
Yeah, and I agree, like I don't really have rituals
at all. I mean I meditate every day, but that's
a separate that's not for writing per se. But I
find that that sometimes can even take up more time.
Like you know, like if you sit down and you're
in front of your computer or a legal power however,
you write and you just say, like I'm gonna be
here for two hours, you're gonna start writing stuff, and
(49:58):
it might not always work or always be stuff that
you're going to use. That's part of the process too.
As far as imposter syndrome goes, it's like, that's not
that original either. Everyone feels that way, so it's almost
not even worth discussing because it's just part of the package.
Everyone's just gonna feel like, you know, you kind of
vacillate between that and then bounts of confidence and capability
(50:20):
and we all feel that way, and that's just your
voice in your head. And so the quicker you can
get those thoughts through, the quicker you're going to be
able to focus on your story and fill in the
blanks that you feel are missing.
Speaker 1 (50:30):
I think even imposter syndrome like gets bigger the closer
you get to finishing something too.
Speaker 2 (50:36):
Yeah, and the more you focus on it, the bigger
it becomes.
Speaker 3 (50:39):
I would say too that Joseph, if you are fifty
pages from the end, and this is this is just personal,
so this may not be true for you. But if
I get to a place where I'm fifty pages from
the end of a novel that I've been working on
for a long period of time and I cannot write
those last fifty pages, the answer to the question, is
(51:00):
in the pages that came before, there is somewhere that
you have taken a wrong turn, that you have put
your character in a situation that either lessens the conflict
or doesn't lead inevitably to your confusion. So you know,
you can push through to the end, or you can
go back to the beginning and edit to take you
(51:22):
back up to that moment. But most likely that's where
your problem lies.
Speaker 1 (51:28):
That's really good advice, And this is really a question
for each of you. Do you start with an outline
or a skeleton for what you're writing or are you
just like, let's go with the vision. I have an idea,
let's go What.
Speaker 2 (51:40):
About you, Kristin.
Speaker 3 (51:41):
I don't begin a book until I have a very
clear vision and I've done a lot of research and
I know the story intimately, and then I sit down
and write a completely different novel and just pray to
God that I can get to a better ending than
I had originally intended.
Speaker 2 (51:58):
Yeah, I'm not an outline. First, my editors asked me
for an outline about three times, and I just had
to tell her that's not happening. I'm not an outlined person.
Speaker 3 (52:06):
I just do it.
Speaker 2 (52:07):
I need to just do it in my own way. Yeah.
Speaker 3 (52:11):
Well, that's the thing about writing, and that's what's so
empowering it. There is not one size fits all. I mean,
you can get you can get information like this, and
I think what happens is when you hear from other writers,
you know what speaks to you, and you hear the
information when you need to hear it, and otherwise it
just collects in there. So the more you can listen to,
(52:33):
you know, conversations like this, I think the more you
can find the answer that you're looking for.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Yeah, yeah, Okay. Well, christ and Hannah, oh my god,
what a delight. I love you and it was so
nice to meet you. I hope I see you again
in person sometimes, I.
Speaker 3 (52:48):
Hope so, I would love to. This was really great.
Speaker 2 (52:51):
Thank you so much, and congrats on all of your
earned success.
Speaker 3 (52:55):
It's pretty great. It's been a good week.
Speaker 2 (52:58):
Yes, congrats, that's congrats.
Speaker 3 (53:01):
All right, and good luck with the book you're working on.
Speaker 2 (53:03):
Thank you, Thank you all right, take care of you guys,
Take care.
Speaker 1 (53:07):
Ay, but thanks Kristen.
Speaker 2 (53:09):
Okay, So, Chelsea Handler is my name, and comedy is
my game. Comedy and therapy. There are my games. I'm sorry,
I misspoke. I have added more shows. I added a
second show in Vancouver, so I have two shows in
Vancouver March twenty ninth March thirtieth. Then I've added another
show in Sydney, Australia on July thirteenth, so i have
two shows in Sydney July twelfth and thirteenth. For other
(53:32):
shows in Australia and New Zealand, go to Chelseahandler dot com.
And I've added two shows in Oklahoma, Norman, Oklahoma on
May third, and one in Thackerville, Oklahoma, which is May fourth,
and then I'll be at the YouTube Theater May eleventh
in Los Angeles with Matteo Lane and Vanessa Gonzalez and
Fortune Fiemester and Sam Jay. Those are my updates and
(53:55):
more shows are coming, so pay attention.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
If you'd like advice from Chelsea, shoot us an email
at Dear Chelsea podcast at gmail dot com and be
sure to include your phone number. Dear Chelsea is edited
and engineered by Brad Dickert executive producer Katherine Law and
be sure to check out our merch at Chelseahandler dot
com
Popular Podcasts
Las Culturistas with Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang
Ding dong! Join your culture consultants, Matt Rogers and Bowen Yang, on an unforgettable journey into the beating heart of CULTURE. Alongside sizzling special guests, they GET INTO the hottest pop-culture moments of the day and the formative cultural experiences that turned them into Culturistas. Produced by the Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio.
40s and Free Agents: NFL Draft Season
Daniel Jeremiah of Move the Sticks and Gregg Rosenthal of NFL Daily join forces to break down every team's needs this offseason.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.